Building Legacy: Patrick Lawler on Second-Generation Leadership in Construction

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I spoke to your dad and to you, youguys get this glitter in your eye

(00:05):
when you talk about what you do, youknow, the whole aspect of building.
And I take it back to somebody,you know, imagine this, you're
in your car, sun is beside you.
and you're driving by this big high riseand you're, Hey, sunny, Jim, your dad
used to work there on the 15th floor.
Well, you can't see the cubicle thatI was in, but there some, right.

(00:25):
Versus you're going down a neighborhoodand you see other children playing,
somebody's out cutting the grass, peopleare walking down the street and you look
over to your son and say, we built that.
That's got to warm your heart that theimpact that you have, not only on your
family, but other families and familiesof families, you touch so many people.

(00:48):
you don't strike me as the kind of guythat would ever take that for granted.
But man, what a gift that mustbe knowing that you've had such a
positive influence on so many people.

(01:15):
So, Patrick, I guess one of thequestions I've got right off the bat
is, I interviewed your dad way back.
He was actually my first gueston Builder Straight Talk.
Wonderful guy, like absolutelysalt of the earth, wonderful guy.
So I'm guessing, was it already inthe stars, you growing up as a kid
that, okay, I'm not going to doballet, knitting's out, the path is

(01:37):
clear, I'm going to be a builder.
Like, was that always in the stars foryou, or was there a different pathway
that maybe you didn't venture down.
Honestly, it wasn't in the plans at all.
So I, I, uh, went to college on abaseball scholarship and played baseball
professionally in the minor leagues fora few years, and that was my dream, but

(01:59):
I'd always, grew up on the job sitesworking in the summers or my off season,
and when I met my wife, baseball becamesecondary and, you know, starting a
family, um, became important when I wasworking for my dad, we went into remodels.
It was during the recession and Ilearned everything very quickly through

(02:21):
those remodels and it was a lot of fun.
So I decided to make it a fulltime job occupation for me.
And I've loved it ever since.
So it's actually a passion.
You fell in love with it as opposedto, it's something I got to get
out of bed in the morning and do?
You know, initially I was a labor andI, Had some hesitation getting up in the

(02:42):
morning and, you know, adjusting to thatschedule, but as I became, more of a,
superintendent and estimator and overallproject coordinator, I love doing that.
Making people's house, help thisfunction better, making them more
cost effective, higher quality, justbringing that, um, um, Imagination into

(03:05):
the project was what I grew to love,
So, uh, is it fair to say that yourdad was sort of grooming you with the
expectation that one day he's going tobe with his wife, your mother, sitting
on a beach, drinking big fruity drinks,while you're running the company?
you know I don't ever think that thatwas his dream Not until he got older

(03:28):
and realized that you know, we couldbe successful in this as well and our
initial dreams became a thing of thepast that he realized that he really
enjoyed having us as part of the company.
At one point in time, my brotheralso worked for the company.
He builds bridges now in North Carolina.

(03:48):
but as we worked with him more,he began to love the idea of having
us around and part of the company.
And I think he valued us more thanmost, not in a, how would I say?
Not in a biased way, but that weactually brought value to the company
and, and what we've learned in collegeand, growing up around construction.

(04:12):
So
that's interesting.
It was never at the beginning.
Like, I think the typical father thinks,you know, I'm building a business, I'm
building a legacy, and the dream isthat his children, sons, are going to
one day step in and then take over.
You're making it sound more like you werean employee, even though you loved what
you were doing, don't get me wrong here,but it didn't seem like in your mind that

(04:36):
you had that vision that one day you weregoing to be steering the ship, or at least
it wasn't In the forefront right away.
that's correct.
Yeah.
He, he always wanted usto go do something else.
His dream for us was tobecome better than he was.
And, Um, that's, you know, not an easytask, but he wanted better for us.
He didn't want us to, he feltthat what he was doing initially

(04:59):
was, you know, very admirable.
He started a company, without acollege education, actually got his
GED and was a successful company.
But I think initially he thoughtthat the road we were on could
provide better than what he had.
And now, you know, with thesuccess that he's gained.

(05:20):
it's hard to believe that there'smany options out there that are
better than what we're doing now.
Well, not to blow the big brasshorn, but you guys are what, like
within the top 2 percent in termsof volume of builders in Arizona?
I would say it's pretty close, I don'tknow what the exact statistics would
be, but I would say that, especiallyin our area, the volume of, of work

(05:42):
we do and the quality of work, I thinkthat's first and foremost is, is the
quality of the jobs, trumps the volume,we're not really after production.
Or track tone building, Butwe have grown quite a bit.
So I would imagine we're up therein terms of the volume that we do,
so let's focus on that in terms ofthe type of build, is it all custom or

(06:06):
are you doing a combination of customand spec or are you building for rent?
Like what is it, what's the, the magicform of the, for the Lawler group
so it's a little bit of a mix, Iwouldn't say we're ever production.
every subdivision home webuild is still semi custom.
We're adjusting, you know, the footprint,adding bathrooms, customizing the

(06:27):
overall look and elevation of the home.
and that's really thestarting point for us.
But I've always.
You know, part of my salespitch is that we, nothing is
too small and nothing's too big.
as long as it's new construction, Ifeel like we're the right pick for
anybody, who's looking for quality andnot just the bottom dollar, you know?

(06:50):
So are, are you guys doing, frombeginning to end, like, do you acquire
the land, develop the land, do the build?
Or is that kind of, as it comesalong, if the opportunity presents
itself, you go down that path?
Like, I guess what I'm lookingfor, you guys are flexible
enough that you do it all.
Yeah, we do a lot of, our clients willcome to us before they've selected a

(07:13):
lot and we'll help them with that lotselection, especially in our location.
And, you know, Central Arizona.
Where you could have very rocky soil,or you could have, um, expansive soil,
or you could have no utilities nearby,you know, there's a lot that comes into
that lot selection that helps us meetour client's budget and then design

(07:34):
a home into their needs and budget.
And make that happen.
So, but there's a lot of clients that cometo us with plans, or they had a failed
relationship with their past builder, andthey're ready to pull a permit or already
have, and they're ready to break groundand we'll step in at that point, as long
as, you know, ground hasn't been broken,we can jump in and be the contractor.

(07:57):
That's got to be, uh, it's almostlike being a marriage counselor.
Like, how do you dance around aclient that's obviously they're upset
because they're coming into you andthe relationship and the expectations
they have with this other builder.
I guess part of it too, they havea grand dream of what they want.
The dream's been shatteredand now they come to you.
How do you bridge that And, forlike, I, I don't know what the builder

(08:20):
term would be for warm and fuzzy,but how do you give them the warm
and fuzzies so they understand thatyou are the guys that are going to
deliver them to the promised land?
I
Well, that's a great question because Ithink the majority, the large majority
of clients that come into a, anysituation where they want somebody to
build their home, they've heard horrorstories of what contractors do and how

(08:44):
they act and, you know, what you shouldreally plan for your budget to be.
And we're the exactopposite, in my opinion.
we aren't begging for peopleto come into the doors.
So we want them to know exactly whatto expect to the best of our ability.
So I'm showing them previouscontracts we've written.
I've shown them previous final invoicesthat we've sent to our clients.

(09:07):
Um, just to show that we truly areitemizing every cost and only charging
them what we've spent plus our margin.
we have a few different, you know,mottos we kind of live by, and one of
them is a hundred percent transparencyto the nth degree, and another is
under promise and over deliver.

(09:28):
So, we want our contract and ourtimeline to be beat on every job.
So,
Is there a process that you have thatwhen you're meeting with clients for
the first time, I guess, setting theexpectations, and then from there,
does it move up incrementally?
yeah, To the point where they'reactually getting ready to sign.
yeah, you know, I do feel though,in the very beginning, to get a

(09:52):
good gauge of the type of clientthat we may be working with.
We're trying to tell them worstcase scenario almost from the start.
especially when we just experienced thepandemic and the issues that came along
with the pandemic, you know, lead timescan change, price increases can occur, or
our subcontractors volume can increase.

(10:14):
And now they only can do, one ofour jobs a week instead of two.
So.
we want to make sure that every clientwe work with is somewhat understanding,
if not completely understanding,of what could occur, especially
in a small community like ours.
Word of mouth and referrals arevery important to us, so, we want

(10:35):
to make sure they're happy in theend and not in the beginning, so,
It's crazy that formula, Patrick,that, uh, if you do something good,
they'll tell them one or two people.
If you screw up, they'retelling the world, you know.
in real estate, I've beenin a broker since 1983, so,
I've been in this, every time I tryto leave real estate, it keeps pulling
me back one way or the other, and hereI am behind a microphone interviewing

(10:59):
guys like you, you know, builders.
But one of the things that Ialways use was a checklist and I
call it the, uh, 88 turbulences.
And this is a list of likeeverything I could imagine
that could possibly go wrong.
And I deliver that when they're undercontract because That's when they
think, well, Michael's sitting backin a room somewhere counting his

(11:19):
imaginary money and smoking a cigar.
When in reality, I tell them, these arethe things that could go wrong behind
the scenes that I'm going to take careof and hopefully you'll never know.
But if they do, here's the list.
So when you give me that panic callat, you know, 10 o'clock in the
evening, I'll say, look at number 73.
It's okay.
This is normal.

(11:39):
We're to address it.
I might steal that idea andcome up with something similar.
We try to prepare them forthe possibilities, but, you
know, in construction, youknow, there's surprises often.
I mean, we limit them, but wedon't shelter our client from them.
We want them to know, cause nine timesout of 10, it's out of our hands.
You know, we were waiting on anengineer or, you know, prices

(12:04):
went up with the manufacturers.
So.
it's, uh, fortunate that the badnews isn't as often as it was during
the pandemic, but it really was acrash course on how to deal with
those conversations and help clientsprepare for that so that they're
happiest when we hand those keys over.
Yeah,

(12:24):
Well, the fact that you guys arestill swinging hammers is a testament
to how you sailed through that,
you know, cause I know a lot ofcontractors that didn't make it through
the other side, you know, So it's,it's kind of sad in that respect,
getting back to, I guess, how youcontrol your costs, change orders,
when we talk about things that cango wrong, how do you address those?
Is that something you set theexpectation again at the beginning?

(12:46):
okay, so let's go
that path.
I'll.
share some examples with clients inthe beginning, um, but something that,
again, we adjusted as part of ourprocedures during the pandemic is
setting a contingency allowance that wefelt, covers that worst case scenario.
So based on the worst case scenarioof price increases between now and the

(13:12):
time of ordering the actual materials,or whether it's hard rock digging,
needing to bring import soil to thejob site or exporting large rocks.
we have our team of subcontractors lookat the job and kind of calculate a risk
to their proposal, you know, based onthe products or based on the location.

(13:34):
We try to give them a contractin the beginning that includes an
allowance for the change ordersthat are to be somewhat expected.
And so in the last four years,I don't think we've exceeded our
contract one time, unless a clientdecides to upgrade something.
So

(13:54):
So
you put that aside as a buffer, as youwill, and if you don't have to tap into
that, or you don't use the whole thing,does that factor in as profit for you,
or does that go back to the client?
no, it goes back to the client.
Wow.
we just now kind of gotten to thepoint where at the end of the job, we
literally send our expense report fortheir job to the penny and at our margin.

(14:20):
And then whatever the final draw wassupposed to be, um, is less, whatever
savings we, we were able to save them.
Do you find that something thatmakes you guys unique because
I haven't heard that before.
I do, I, I do.
I think it's more uniquethan most people realize.
I mean, I hear plus plus contracts.

(14:41):
But I also hear my supplierssay, are you sure you want us
to share our quote with them?
Are you sure you want usto tell them your cost?
Like they're used to marking itup for their general contractor and
then we mark it up and they don'thave a team that can track everything

(15:03):
to the penny and to the hour, tothe half hour, to the quarter hour.
So, It's not perfect because it stillcomes down to guys tracking their hours
properly and being honest with theamount of time they are on the job.
But our team does a great job of that.
I, I'm very, we're blessed to have sucha good group of people in the office and

(15:24):
out in the field that, you know, takeownership of what we're trying to do here.
Yeah.
Interesting.
You say you're blessed.
I recall when I was interviewing yourdad, Jim, one of the things that he said
that there was a moment in time where hisback was against the wall and he thought,
this is it, you know, like, I'm done.
We're throwing in the towel.
So, you know, Cindy and himwere just in the corner praying.

(15:47):
And he said, you know, Michael,I just looked at God and I said,
whatever happens now is in your hands.
From this day forward, we'rebuilding with God in mind.
And I thought, holy jumping, like a. Thefact that he would even bring God up in
a conversation, because I think that'soutlawed in like 49 of the 52 states,
correct me if I'm wrong here, andthat he has such a devout faith, and he

(16:10):
said from that moment on, it was likea burden was lifted off his shoulders.
would you consider yourselfa spiritual man as well, like
following in your father's footsteps?
Absolutely.
That is, you know, somany things can go wrong.
And if your identity is in.
This industry or what you do in thisindustry, you know, you're going to,

(16:34):
die of stress, it's just too muchgoing on too many things going on
around you that are, unpredictable.
And so that's a huge part of our company.
I mean, we, we start every meeting with aprayer, you know, we, truthfully believe
that, It's in God's control, it's in God'shands, and that does take that level of

(16:57):
stress off because, you know, we may losea client, we may, put in a lot of work and
they decide to go another direction, butwe feel that God probably saved us from
a client that was gonna be a headache,you know, so, I feel like we're the right
contractor for everybody if, we put inthe time and, and get to that point.

(17:18):
But maybe not every client isthe perfect client for us, you
let me tap on that for a second, Patrick.
So I, I think of this, I can'tremember the country singer,
girl and it's, you know?
Jesus take the wheel, you know, likedoodly doo, driving down the highway,
lose control, the car's spinning.
So I'll just like go the, and Jesus isgoing to step in and I just want to swap

(17:38):
my set in the ad. Believing in God, havinga faith in what you do and combining
that with work does not mean that youabandon everything and hope that God's
going to step in and do it for you.
I, think that's more of,what's a better way to say it?
It's
more like buffer on the highway.
So if you do skid out of control, itkind of nudges you back into the lane.

(18:01):
That's right.
it's very common throughout theBible to be, you're told to,
you know, we got to do our work.
We got to do what God has blessed uswith gifts to do the things we're doing.
And it's our job to do them.
Obviously we have a role inwhat we're, assigned to do
and what the expectations are.
both of the company and theclient, but also, God, obviously

(18:25):
that's the way I look at it.
But, you know, fortunately we'reforgiven for our mistakes, so we
don't have to dwell on those things,you know, it's, my dad always says,
You know, you're going to wake upand it's going to be here tomorrow.
Everything's going to be here tomorrow.
Your work's going to be here tomorrow.
So valuing and prioritizing the differentthings in your life are another big thing.

(18:47):
I mean, family's so important and,understanding that of our team
that we can't expect, More outof them than we do of ourselves.
So it's just a lot of good valuesand morals that come from, having a,
Christ based business and having thatbe your business plan is, You know,

(19:10):
recipe for success, in my opinion,
Does that ever create a conflict in,in so much that when you're partnering
with people or you're hiring peoplethat they have to have that same value
and vision and commitment that you do?
you know, yes and no, it's always alittle bit in the back of your mind,
you know, especially when you're talkingabout employees, obviously we can't

(19:34):
fire somebody or hire somebody basedon, on that, but we just want to make
it clear, so if they're uncomfortable,Or if they don't want to put themselves
in that situation, you know, so be it.
I mean, that's them.
but we do, we do make that clear inthe beginning so that, you know, we
don't get to the first office meetingand they're like, what is going on?

(19:57):
and with it being a small community,most of the people around us know
where we stand with that, you know?
And so it's not really a surprise inmost cases, and it can be to clients,
but You know, I think even if somebodydoesn't believe or have the same beliefs
we do, they respect it and to a degree,I think they feel a little comfortable

(20:22):
that we're, we're going to operate,on the up and up and be trustworthy.
That's really important to us.
So
I think that's part of being inthat small community that you
said you have to walk your talk.
So, if you put it forward that thisis how we represent ourselves, this
is how we run our company, thenyou've got to be consistent with that.

(20:44):
Otherwise, you're just charlatans, right?
So, let's go back a step.
Have you ever been in a position whereyou have to turn people down, not because
of faith, let's just put that one aside,but, uh, they come to you and their
expectations are just way off the charts?
you don't think you can workwith them, not, but not so much
budget, but just maybe expectationsand what they want from you.

(21:07):
Has that ever arised?
I
that happens more often than you think.
I mean, I guess, I don't know, I, I onlyhave my experience to, to pull from on
this, but I am the front line when itcomes to determining if a client or if
we are a good fit for them or vice versa.

(21:27):
and I would say, you know, 40 percentof the time, the initial conversation
is an eye opener for us or them, youknow, they, they're a little out of
touch with what usually budget Usuallywhat you're able to get for your money.
and the unfortunate thing is that thereis a vast difference in cost right

(21:50):
now in different parts of the country.
it can be hard for some people to, to,figure out why it's more expensive here.
And there's, there's quite a few reasons.
I don't know them all.
I don't know why you can get ahouse in Texas that would cost
2 million here for 550, 000.
I don't, I don't know that,but, I do know some of the

(22:14):
reasons why our cost is higher.
And.
You know, most of that has to do with theamount of labor, the cost of living, and
where it's at, and what we have to paypeople, but also, we live in, kind of, a,
a land island where everything has to beshipped more to get to us, so, those are
just a few of the things, but, yeah, we'vegotten plenty of, uh, you know, situations

(22:40):
where we've had to say to a client, like,I, I just don't think this is going to
go in the direction where It's goingto be affordable for you or, realistic.
And I have to be really carefulabout that because I think with
our team, we could probably do 30to 40 estimates a year, max.

(23:02):
I mean, and that's probably alittle more than, we could do, but.
So if we take on one or two of themand they can't afford it, and we
don't find out till we're five monthsinto the process, you know, that's
a pretty big waste of time for usand opportunity for us, you know,
so it's not a fun job all the time.

(23:23):
Yeah.
I, I use that line with my clients.
I'd rather turn youdown than let you down,
Yeah.
you know, and then that's, I don'twant to say save my baking, but it
has in a lot of instances because.
Again, getting back to that stressrelief, it's like, yeah, okay, it's not
that I didn't want to work with them,but the expectations weren't there.
And I knew that it would just be friction.

(23:45):
and I'm sure you're probably thesame, if I can't get up in the morning
and look forward to what I'm goingto be doing, as opposed to dreading
every hour of that day, I'm goingto be working with those people.
Uh, I might as well be under abridge somewhere drinking, you know,
bourbon or something with, yeah.
Anyway, I digress.
Yeah.
Well, let's get back into you andthe position now within the company.

(24:06):
is there a formal title or formalhat that you're wearing right.
now?
I'm vice president of a company.
obviously something that you earned.
I would say so.
Yes.
Okay.
you know, I've worked my way through,Being a, a labor to start, then it was
a, you know, full project coordinatorhandling estimating soup and then

(24:28):
supervising scheduling of remodelsduring the 2008, 2009 recession.
and at that point we realized youknow, estimating was a good fit for me.
And so I did that for another five,I still do that to some degree.
but after six or seven, you, you'vegot a few other estimators, I

(24:51):
just started overseeing them and,and helping them, get to where we
needed them to be more quickly.
And at that point, It just kind offell into a vice president role due
to the size that we became, you know,we had four superintendents, five
superintendents and four estimatorsat one point, and I just was

(25:14):
overseeing mainly the whole operations.
How big is the operation now?
Like how many people are there all tool?
we have four superintendents, fourestimators, we call them project
coordinators now, um, an interiordesigner, an in house architect,
an office manager, three assistantsright now for her, and a few

(25:37):
laborers and a warranty manager.
So I think in all, we'reabout 17 to 20 usually.
Wow.
And you're no longer swinging a hammer.
You're more of a, likea supervisory role now.
Yes,
Yeah.
do you miss it at all?
You know, I do, there'sparts of it that I miss.
I miss being on the job site, sometimes.

(25:58):
I try to get out theremore, but it's difficult.
There's a lot to do in the office, so.
And, you know, I'm a, I'm a baseballcoach and have three kids, so.
I gotta, I gotta prioritize myschedule and, and make sure I'm
making time for that as well.
So,
you were just at a, a tournament,trying to line up this interview,
uh, was a bit of a challengebecause you were like, on the road.

(26:20):
I'm trying, what was that?
oh man, actor, Forrest Gump.
Who played Forrest Gump?
oh, Tom Hanks.
Tom Hanks.
when he was the, thewoman's baseball coached.
one?
Yeah.
And I just had A flashback to you,like on the bus, you know, going to
all these different towns, rollingout the team, but this is the little
league that you're, you're doing.
Yeah.
Well, and they're growing fast though.

(26:41):
My daughter, um, is going to be asenior in high school next year and
plays softball and flag football.
And then my oldest son just madea, a state team that's going to
go play in a national tournamentin Indianapolis in about.
For three weeks.
so we have to practice inPhoenix every week for that.

(27:02):
And my youngest is in a break,but he's getting ready to start
practicing again next week.
So it's a full time job in its own,it seems, but it's what we love.
We love in our kids being able to playyear round and do what they love to do.
And how old are they?
So my oldest is 17 and that'smy daughter, my only daughter.

(27:24):
And then the boys are 13 and 10.
They're both about to havebirthdays pretty soon.
The youngest will be 11 and.
Three weeks.
He tells me basically every day.
So,
Do you see a sparkle or an inklingin any of them that they want
to follow in daddy's footsteps?
you know, I, it's almost the exactsame situation that my dad was in it,

(27:47):
you know, we're, we're pushing themto do what they are dreaming to do.
but I do see it in the backgroundevery now and then that they, liked
that I get to do what I do andthey're, they're proud of us and, who
we, who we've become as a company.
And so, especially when we're doing thingslike this, they think it's pretty cool.

(28:07):
So, there's a very good chancethat one or two of them is going
to end up working with us someday.
And I'm definitely going to makethem, you know, have a summer job
if they're not playing sports.
think you've got to give them, youknow, I look at it as an opportunity.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I, I mean, you know, this betterthan I do for every five in the trades
that are retiring right now, only1.2 I think is the average that are,

(28:30):
I don't even know what that means.
One point's what somebody in a wheelchairis coming to work at a job site, but
where they come up with this, but we'regoing to get to this point where it's a
tsunami that will have not enough labor.
There's an abundant demand.
I think at 10 million homes a yearin the US you're 20 years behind.
In catching up.
And so you're going to have alimited labor force that can

(28:52):
demand more than premium wages.
And now they can be very selective aboutthe projects that they actually take on.
And I think we have to encouragemore people to get into the trades.
And I think that startsright at grade school.
I remember in kindergarten we had the bigwork blocks that we got to play with and
you and we're building like log homes ina can and I don't see that happening now.

(29:17):
Everything seems to be with an iPad ordigital and I think we have a generation
of kids that have lost the ability touse their hands and with the hands come
the imagination that I can actuallybuild something or, or am I off the
No.
I think you're right on.
I mean, I'm fortunate.
My kids love being outside.
They love, you know, notnecessarily, you know, grunt work,

(29:40):
but they just love to be outside.
They love to be using their hands.
but generally speaking, I thinkwhat you just said is exactly right.
And we're, we're going to be in trouble.
I tell people all the time, um, youknow, the direction we're headed with
The cost of minimum wage and what we'regoing to be asking people to do for

(30:01):
20 an hour compared to working at TacoBell is something that they just don't
see as being, attractive, you know?
there's such a disconnect.
And I think back to when I, wasa kid, across the street was the
technical school, you know, and,you know, we jokingly said, ha,
ha, that's where you go when you'redumb and you can't do anything.

(30:22):
But that's where they wentto learn a trade, right?
And I'm thinking, okay, those guys thatwe were laughing at as kids, they're the
ones that are driving around in Ferraris.
That are coming to charge 250 bucksan hour to fix my leaky toilet, right?
So I think part of the disconnect isparents have to get behind their children
and realize that it's a noble profession.

(30:42):
Like being able to master a trademeans that you are reliant on no one.
Because in a couple of years after you'veapprenticed and you're out there, you
know, you've taken your lumps, you canactually start up your own business,
And read a few things lately where itseems the excitement for it is coming
back in cases, I don't know, you'reabsolutely right, I mean, there's an

(31:05):
opportunity for kids out there and ifyou look at it overall, it seems that
the opportunity is greater than thosethat are getting a college degree because
those jobs, when you get that degree,you're now going to be taken over by.
AI or just less need forpeople in the office.

(31:25):
I don't
I mean,
what's going to happen, but we'llsay the costs of living and the
cost of houses have gone up to apoint where I'm not even sure how my
kids are going to afford to have ahouse, you know, when the time comes.
So there's a lot of adjustment.
I think we need to do as a whole andfigure out how we're going to make this

(31:46):
happen for everybody, both to have thelabor and to have the affordability.
So.
Do you see technology, Patrick, playinga role in this, like building homes
more efficiently, the use of AI, youknow, digital printed homes, that kind
of, is that kind of the savior, if youwill, on the horizon that will hopefully

(32:06):
bring down costs, expedite the process,
to build homes without labor?
I mean, it's, it's hard to see howAI is going to perform in the field.
Like actually when it comesdown to building the home, but I
have seen the 3d printed homes.
I know there's a community, Ithink it's in Arizona potentially

(32:27):
that is starting to build them.
however, it's hard to know whatthe possibilities are with that.
How far can you take it?
You know, how much does it complete?
Is it just the exterior walls or,you know, where, where will it end?
So, it's going to be interesting tosee, you know, obviously everybody
is trying to advance the technology,at least companies who are newer.

(32:52):
I know some of these guys thatare on the way out or just like,
they don't want to touch anything.
We use a lot of technologyin our industry already.
And we get pushback from guysthat are like, you know, sending
handwritten invoices to us.
So, but most of those guys are, areretiring, it seems, which I don't

(33:13):
know if that's a good thing or not.
Yeah,
I've interviewed a couple of 3Dprinted homes The first time I heard
of it, I just envisioned littleLego bricks and I just laughed.
I said, okay, well, you're a 3D printedhome yet, you've got a little printer.
And it was basically, look Gilligan,no, we've got this big extrusion arm.
And then, and one of the companies claimsthey can pour 10 foot high walls in a

(33:36):
single pass, and within two days theycan have the exterior interior done.
And then day number three,they're bringing in the
composite roof to put on top.
Obviously.
that is, that's impressive.
obviously, you know, there'sgoing to be a place for that.
There's going to be a market for that.
There could be a market for thatprobably in every city across America.

(33:58):
but then there's also goingto be those, those clients
that want something different.
They want a custom home.
They want, you know, luxurluxurious, finishes and aesthetics.
So I'm interested to seewhat the future holds.
It's hard to say exactlywhat that's going to be.
but 3d printed homes areprobably going to be a part of it.

(34:20):
I mean, they already are.
And so it's just a matter of howmuch of the market do they control.
And if, if we need to get involved init, you know, I think tiny homes are
another, must just because of, thereality of what the cost to home is today,
Well, the, the speed to build youdon't have to have an abundance of

(34:41):
labor in, and, and there are almostlike the Lego, uh, idea or going to
Ikea to buy a home, you just openit up and put them together, right?
So I would have to think that that'sgoing to take the cost down dramatically,
which brings us back to a questionthat we were talking about earlier.
Like, why are homes so much moreexpensive in one state versus the other?

(35:01):
In Arizona, do you have todeal with a lot of red tape?
Do you find that just beingable to put a shovel into the
ground is half the expense?
and it seems to be, you know, I don'twant to, I don't want to implicate
myself, uh, my building inspectoris going to be watching this, but,
unfortunately, everybody has to coverthemselves more and more, protect their,

(35:25):
themselves from litigation, you know,the possibility of, of getting sued
over, you know, accepting something ona, on a set of plans and then it being
built and not working, you know, so.
Thank you.
I see everybody isoutsourcing plan review.
they're afraid to have their inspectoractually say, yeah, this is approved.

(35:49):
So it's third party inspections.
It's more and more every year.
There's more people involved.
There's more inspections involved.
and just getting approved to beginwith, it seems like they are, uh,
just trying to find things to redline.
to justify the time ittook, you know, and the

(36:11):
but there's, there'sdefinitely a lot of red tape.
That's for sure.
On all
the builders I, uh, interviewed startedoff in Washington, D. C., he was pouring
concrete, that, that was his job.
He got interested in doing specbuilding, so he bought, I think
it's an old gas station or liquorstore, I can't remember, either way.

(36:31):
So he starts the renovation to convertit into a house, and halfway through,
a bunch of guys with suitcases showup and throw a lot of money at him.
And tell him to go away, like,even before it's done, right?
And so, wash, rinse, repeat, he findsanother building, and this is going to
be, I think, a seven story condo building.
So he starts working at that.

(36:53):
And same thing, like, he must havethis magic, you know, godmother
that's following him around.
More guys show up withbigger briefcases of money.
And he says, okay, I'm done in Washington.
I've always wanted to go to California.
And so off he goes, you know,go west, young man, and starts
off to be a builder there.
And he said, the first hard hitof reality was what it took to

(37:16):
be able to get through thisprocess of getting plans approved.
And he said, something even likegetting water permits, it wasn't
unrealistic to expect that you'regoing to be paying a hundred thousand
dollars to get a water permit.
And, it could take ayear or more to get that.
And I'm thinking, how, how canyou possibly be in business when
every time you're submitting aplan, it's like throwing the dice?

(37:38):
And you hope it's going to get approved?
And, you know, especially with allthe fires they've had recently,
you know, that was one of the bigconversations I heard is how long it's
going to take to rebuild and permit.
I think that was even one ofthe things they mentioned.
On the news, you know, the mayor or thegovernor, I can't remember, but they
were talking about how they're going toallow for expedited permitting, you know,

(38:03):
to try to get this rebuild happening.
But I've, we've heard that forever,um, here in Arizona that, you know,
California is the most difficult, stateto get building permits, to go through
review, get your license and so forth.
But from what I understand.
this area, Arizona, and thisarea of Arizona, in particular,

(38:26):
is not too far behind.
Just mainly because of, I think, Sedona,and the precedent they've set of fitting
the mold and making sure they, you know,do justice for the surrounding homes.
It's almost like one law page in a waywith, you know, Ridiculous requirements.

(38:47):
So, they made McDonald's have tealarches, you know, the only place in the
world where McDonald's had to changetheir logo, in order to be approved.
So,
Teal arches,
yeah.
okay, that, that sounds likea topic for another interview.
Uh, yeah, let's dial back to when wasit that you had that epiphany that

(39:11):
this is going to be the vocation now,and that working with your dad is
now developing into a partnership?
it wasn't long after I gave up baseball.
I think I was, I was.
26 years old, I was in my off season ofplaying baseball, working through the

(39:32):
winter, into the winter, getting readyto go to Australia to play baseball, so,
it was, it was already, the writing wason the wall that baseball was going to
last much longer, maybe a few years, itwas before banana ball was around, so I
didn't have that opportunity, but, So Iknew something was going to be happening.
You know, I was going to either needto go find a real job at some point.

(39:55):
And I was working for my dadstill in a labor position.
as I began doing that, I met mywife and decided to propose to her.
And at the same time, The recession wasstill going on, we were doing a lot of
remodels, and I just enjoyed doing it.
I was waking up and going to work and,was on a lot of different projects

(40:18):
in Sedona, which was a beautifulplace to be, and also presented us an
opportunity within the company to be asuperintendent and an estimator, which
I think, I caught on pretty quick.
So, um, it was fun.
I enjoyed making, profitable estimatesand giving our clients a good deal.

(40:45):
You know, it was rewarding work to do.
I want to focus on the, what's going onin your head and your dad, like what's
that conversation that you're having.
About you're coming on nowto learn the trade, right?
So, you know, You have to know, everyaspect of what it is that your dad does.

(41:07):
And that conversation is now also going toinclude the fact that ultimately the goal
is that the company is going to be yours.
You're going to be runningit as your dad steps down.
How did you have that conversationand what was, it like?
it was a gradual realization, I think.
So, As I was beginning to work for himand move up the ladder, so to speak, the

(41:32):
fortunate thing was I had a lot of greatsubcontractors who worked with for a long
time that were a part of our team, whichI was able to learn a lot from them,
on every aspect of building a home andlearned the right way to do it, which
was great, especially with the remodels.
So, as I got to that point.
And we realized that this wasgoing to be my vocation forever.

(41:57):
it just became kind of a naturalfit and it didn't happen overnight
or in a single conversation.
It was more, I think my dad valuinghaving me in the office and what,
what I brought to the table.
We had a, another estimatorsuperintendent at the same time.
And not to toot my own horn oranything, but it was, it was pretty

(42:21):
clear which jobs were performing betterand non schedule and profitable in
the end, didn't have 20 change ordersand, twice as long to complete.
So.
it's a good question.
I'm trying to think backto anything in particular.
there was a couple of conversations,you know, along the way, but it kind

(42:43):
of just seemed like the right fitand eventually he just was giving me
more, in fact, now for the past fiveyears, I'm the builder seller of a
subdivision here in, in Clarkdale.
the estates at Mountain Gate, which.
Has been a huge blessing for me and mypersonal family, for my dad to basically

(43:06):
gift that to us as a separate entity.
We hired all our construction tobuild the homes, um, but our company,
Homebase Developers, sells the homesand is the official seller for the
rest of the lots in our section.
So.
Okay, hold on, let's do a timeout there.
So, you have, you, you did a lanechange without signaling here.

(43:30):
Maybe that's common in Arizona.
don't know you hippie types.
possible.
So you have a company then, withina company, and this company would
be the sales arm, not of Lawler,but of, Of what you're, like,
explain it to me, like, I'm six.
So I'll try to make this quick andstart from the beginning, but 12 years

(43:50):
ago, 13 years ago, um, my dad waspresented with an opportunity coming
right out of the recession to be thebuilder of a subdivision in Cottonwood.
Um, we'd never been a subdivision builder.
We've never experienced that.
And my dad at first was like,no, that's not our style.
We're custom home builders.

(44:10):
We can't even build down to thatlevel of home because we wouldn't
know where to start, you know?
so we told the developer, theowner or the property owner,
this is what we're going to need.
We're going to need toupgrade these homes.
We're going to need to, you know,bring them up to at least, respectable
level of construction, which isprobably going to increase the price.

(44:33):
And I developed a business plan and amission statement, the whole, you know,
thing to present to these landowners.
And I think they had three or four otherbuilders, that they were interviewing
and ultimately they gave it to us.
And my dad built there, MesquiteHills, where he started Mesquite Hills

(44:54):
Investments, for probably 11 years.
I think 10 years.
so then that developersold the rest of his land.
That was ultimately their
goal is to become successful.
We, we built probably120 homes in there, 130.
He got it successful enough to wherea, you know, a larger builder developer

(45:20):
was interested in buying the restof the lots and they got out of it.
So at the exact same time, we had another
property owner.
You know, approach us andsay, would you want to build
your homes on our subdivision?
Um, we would give you the premiumlots, the larger lots, and you could
build your larger homes in there.
And at that point in

(45:42):
time, my dad said, you know, I'mgoing to have you and Chanel do
this, my wife, and start your own
company and you become the seller there.
At that point, I was, you know,running the estimating and options.
We actually were building in the TravisZoo with the same original developer, for
a few years, but we brought that RV garagein this area and it's become very popular,

(46:08):
your dad was telling me about that.
Once you added the, because you havea lot of snowbirds and retirees,
that when you added an RV garage,it's like, holy jumping, it'd be
like the teal arches at McDonald's.
It was that final thing that pulled in.
I just want to rewind this for a second.
It's like, your dad says, okay, SonnyJim, or in this case, Patrick, he's
literally giving you his brand newCorvette with a full tank of gas and

(46:31):
letting you drive it to the prom.
Is what this opportunity is.
So like, what did that make you feel, man?
Like, tell me, what was, that like?
it was a lot of, good emotions atthat time, you know, and it still is.
I mean, it's been a blessing ever since.
Obviously we have a uniqueniche, you know, it's still not

(46:53):
inexpensive homes, you know,everything here is fairly expensive.
So, Going back to your question, I wasjust kind of in shock to begin with that
I was going to get this opportunity.
it was a lot of work to doto get it ready and prepared.
So, it, the excitement of it madeit easier to get all that work done

(47:13):
and get it ready for us to startbuilding in that new subdivision.
but my dad is.
I'm very giving and loving manto his family, but to everybody,
That brings up an interesting question.
So is there any, I don't want tosay animosity, cause I would never
suspect that between you and your dad.
But last time I checked,you've got DNA, you're human.

(47:36):
Is there ever friction on the job?
Maybe disagreements over theway something should be done or
the way you want it to be done?
And I'm saying want specificallyhere because you're now maturing
to the point where you're looking.
You're looking at thecaptain's chair, Right.
And this isn't something thatyou're just dropping your ass into
to see if it feels comfortable.

(47:56):
Like that, that's thevision moving forward.
And I would think that as the captain,there's a direction that you want to go.
And I'm not saying against what yourfather's built, but you want to be
able to put your fingerprints on it.
So is there, is there ever a clash?
And if so, how do you guys resolve it?
Like do you throw hammers ateach other and you walk away?

(48:16):
And do you get together for, because Iremember your dad telling me that you
don't live that far apart and he'llcome thundering over in his golf cart
and then you guys will basically kissand make up over a steak and a beer.
so I'm very fortunate that he is,he's the, the reason why we have a

(48:37):
process the way we do, we truthfullywant everybody that's involved in this
company to feel like they have a sayin the direction the company goes.
And If they know a way to do somethingbetter or more efficient, or just
the way they talk to a client or abuilding inspector, we want to hear it.
we meet as a team every Tuesday morning.

(48:59):
me and him go to breakfast everyTuesday morning after that.
And then once or twice every threeweeks, we have a manager's meeting.
And so we're, we'reoften on the same page.
I mean, nothing justgets done out of nowhere.
It's a culmination of conversations we'vehad over the course of months, years.

(49:21):
Or whatever it may be.
And yeah, there's, there's beensmall arguments, but typically
we're usually on the same page.
And typically there's so much goingon that it's more or less dealing
with what's happening and preparingfor the clients we have on deck.
So, you know, when somebodycomes to build a house with them,

(49:44):
it's a two year relationship.
I want to have some thoughtprocess further out than that.
I want to get into other contributionsor I want to gear towards healthy homes
or tiny homes or, you know, multi family.
those are all aspirations.
and we're, we're setting ourselves upto where we're able to do that, but
he's never been one to, deny a thoughtor say that something I'm thinking

(50:09):
about is not the right direction to go.
He has a lot of trust in myselfand our team, that we have best
interests of the company in mind.
So, uh, not, not a whole lot of arguments
Has
there been, from your perspective,Like, you've had a thought,
like, so unconventional aboutan approach or something that you

(50:32):
wanted to do within the company.
Has that moment?
And if it is that unconventional andyou actually did implement it, what
would the impact be on the company?
you know, we've, we haveimplemented a lot of stuff over
the past few years, especially.
I would say our process is completelydifferent than it was five years ago.

(50:55):
and a lot of new technology, but, youknow, my dad's always been right there
with me, if not the one introducingit to us as, you know, an opportunity
for us to become a better company.
So I've had some unconventional thoughtsor aspirations, but I think, you know,

(51:15):
you sleep on it and you realize thatmaybe that's not the right direction
or you, you know, you have some timeto realize that maybe, maybe there's
a better time for this, not now.
I think being busy, both athome and at work, makes it
easy for, for yourself to just.
Realize the importance of staying ontrack and not, not, uh, what's the term?

(51:40):
What's the skiing term?
Getting in over your skis.
yeah, over your tips.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
I'd have to say that you and your dadstrike me more as the type that would
prey on it versus sleeping on it.
yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, well, I just want to tap on theidea again of a succession for builders

(52:01):
that are listening right now that are ina similar situation where they have maybe
a son, you know, a son, daughter, youknow, irrelevant, they're grooming them
to be able to take over the business.
Are there any words ofwisdom that you can share?
Because you're already down this pathto the point where you're running,
you know, like the sales divisions,if you will, inside the company.

(52:23):
So it's already giving you thegrand taste of what it's going to
be like to be in the captain chair.
Any wisdom that you can share withbuilders that are in a similar situation?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, I don't think mydad was always this way, you know, but
his relationship with God, and his.
ability to truthfully put it inGod's hands over the past 20 years.

(52:49):
I've seen, you know, his wisdom andknowledge and insight grow, but also
his patience and, you know, ability toforgive or let things go, not, you know,
let his emotions get the best of him ever.
You know, I mean, It seems that, youknow, one of the things we tell each

(53:13):
other, or he's told me in the beginning,and I continue to remind everybody, is
that you kind of got to go into workeach day with the realization that
not everything's going to go perfect.
There's going to be some firesto put out, or there's going
to be an issue of some sort.
And if you realize that, and youare in touch with your relationship

(53:35):
with God, then you don't let it,you know, you, or allow you to.
Become heated about any situation.
So that kind of patience and this wayof living has really helped me, know
that I can make a mistake, you know,I, it doesn't have to be perfect.

(53:55):
You know, I gotta keep rowing.
I gotta keep pursuing learning andputting things in place so that
that mistake doesn't happen again.
but there's never been like,I can't believe you did that.
Or, you know, what were you thinking?
You know, there's.
I've never, I haven't heard that come outof his mouth towards me since I've worked
here, which is, um, says, says a lot.

(54:18):
I mean, I haven't really thought aboutit until you brought up the question.
but that's, that's theadvice I think I would give.
a father who wants their kids to workfor them is to, know it's gonna take them
a while to get going, it's gonna takethem a while to, learn everything, you
gotta have, that ability to let them makemistakes and learn from it, on their own,

(54:41):
or even if you have to help address it,just don't do it while you're angry, you
know, just wait until, You've cooled downor calmed down to, address the situation,
but he's, very slow to anger and healmost to a fault, you know, sometimes
he, probably doesn't get on certainpeople as much as they, as he should.

(55:03):
But, you know, thatjust comes with wisdom.
There's always a reason behind it.
he's got a good formula though.
And I think following that patience.
Is going to help any father, you know,bring a son or daughter into the company
and allow them to enjoy it, you know?
listening.

(55:28):
Yeah.
It reminds me of what you werejust saying about your dad.
And I'll just go through it quickly.
Edison has a, big, I guess, show,not show, investors are coming
to invest in the company and he'sgot the prototype ready to go.
And the assistant comes running downwith the, stairs with the light bulb,
he trips, breaks the bulb, right?

(55:49):
Well, the future of the companyis relying on something that's
going to glow in the dark, right?
So they're back in the lab feverishlytrying to put this thing back
together or create a new bulb.
And then the question becomes,well, who is the person Edison is
going to entrust to carry that bulb?
And lo and behold, it's the same guy.
Cause he knows that guy's not goingto make the same mistake twice, Right.

(56:13):
And I kind of think as you're explainingyour dad's philosophy and his love
for you, and I guess that wholeencompassing feeling, he's trusting
you enough that he realizes, yeah,you know, the kid's going to fall
down, he's going to scrape his knees,but you have to allow him to do that.
And it's very similar to howyou treat senior citizens.

(56:35):
We have an inkling that we wantto jump in and do things for them.
And that is the worst thing you can dobecause now you're disempowering them.
You're taking away their independenceto be able to do things on their own.
And part of that is the mistakesthat you make, that you get to stand
up, dust yourself off and go, okay,I'm not going to do that again.

(56:57):
Absolutely.
I think, you know, us growing up in asports family too, has helped him come to
that understanding more quickly and, mehave that mindset of, You know, I'm going
to be able to learn from my mistakes andnot dwell on it, that's helped as well.
I think having that team mentality,that sports has given us and having

(57:19):
that relationship with God hasreally put together a good recipe
for running a company and, and howto treat your team members, you know,
and utilize them in the best way.
I think one of the bestthings my dad has learned is.
Surrounding yourself with smart people,is the best way to be successful.

(57:41):
You know, there's a lot of peopleout there that can't delegate or
trust other people to do, the workthey want them to do, but, and
you can make yourself, you know,
yeah, it's critically taking the egoout of the equation and being humble
enough to realize you don't know, allthe answers, but the important thing
is to know the people that do, know.

(58:03):
I got one more, well, I say onemore, that's just a segue for 10
more questions, Patrick, but whatis it that keeps you up at night?
Like the amount of responsibilitiesthat you have now, family, baseball,
work, future, like, is there anythingthat you just, every once in a
while, it's like, holy jumping.
I'm ready to pack it all inand baseball in the Bahamas.

(58:27):
yeah, you know, the position we're inis not a position for the squeamish
cause there's always just, you know,pleasing and serving your clients.
conversations to have with tradesor, you know, whatever it may be.
Something that went wrong on ajob or, you know, you're not going

(58:48):
to meet a deadline for something.
they can get to you and you canlet them wear on your engine.
So, you know, I've learned howto try to not bring my work
home, but it's nearly impossible.
there's something I'malways thinking about.
often it's about how to include a partof our process or, you know, maybe

(59:09):
a conversation I need to have withsomebody tomorrow, something I forgot
to put in my schedule, you know, so,it's just all the little stuff, so
much that, that, uh, you know, comeswith being a dad and a husband and a
business owner that, you're always goingto have something you can be thinking
about or that's going to keep you up.
So it's.

(59:30):
It's something you got to work on,
I know for, for your dad, his supportnetwork would be his faith, Cindy,
his wife, your mother, family.
Do you have that same relationship?
is your wife, your business partner,are you doing this together or do you
keep those compartment, I can't evensay the word, compartmentalized, that

(59:50):
they're two separate jars all together?
I think there's a little bit of both.
we discuss a lot of what's going on,in work, but only to a certain degree.
There's so much going on that if I, ifI started to bring it up, it would take
us all night, each night, you know, so.
I, I keep her in tune with thehighlights, not necessarily the low

(01:00:14):
lights, you know, I don't want to bringanybody down, not going the way I want.
I definitely celebrate with the family andlet them know of, the cool things that are
going on or things that are happening or,you know, the future that's ahead of us.
I being a dad is helping them see thegoals and aspirations and, things like

(01:00:35):
that come into fruition, you know,due to hard work, which helps them
that same mentality of, you know,setting goals and being excited about
the things that are ahead of you.
So I'm fortunate.
My kids are very bright andgood students and good athletes.
So not everybody is, is.

(01:00:55):
As fortunate as that, I mean, I, I trynot to take it for granted, but, when I'm
home, we talk a lot about sports, the kidsschedules, things we got to do coming up.
So work is part of theconversation, but not as much.
Is there anything you do for Patrick,uh, because, again, going back to what
we just talked about here, the stress,family, all these things that you're

(01:01:16):
trying to juggle, is there anythingPatrick just does for himself, like, I,
I'm just unplugging, I don't mean to,you know, you go to the spa, get your
nails done or anything like that, but it,it's specifically, this is Patrick time.
And if I don't do this, I'm not goingto be the husband, the father, the
builder, the son that I could be.

(01:01:37):
Yeah, so I have a few things, I wouldsay the most consistent thing I do for
myself is almost every day, and so becauseit's every day, I've got it scheduled
in my schedule that I go to the gym inthe middle of the day, so, if I go too
early, it's usually, it's not pointless,but, You know, it's busy, and I don't

(01:02:00):
get as good of a workout in, but if, I,I found that if I go in the middle of the
day, it kind of rejuvenates me for thatafternoon, you know, if I sit here in the
office all day, I can't look at a screenanymore, I can't think anymore, so, I
go right in the middle of my day, rightbefore lunch, usually call in lunch from
the gym, grab it, go back to the office,and, It kind of gives me that midday fire

(01:02:23):
just to get after it in the afternoon.
So, and then, you know, from timeto time, I like to get out in the
woods, maybe, you know, go, tothe river or go up into the pines.
fortunate to have a lot ofbeautiful places to visit in
Arizona, especially where we live.
We have, you know, Phoenix in oursouth, Flagstaff in our north.

(01:02:46):
which are two completely differentclimates and, it makes it easy to get
away for a minute and, and find someplace beautiful to spend some time, maybe
a weekend, so we do that a little bit.
you, man.
I think we've covered a lotof ground here, young man.
What do you think?
Anything I haven't touched onthat you'd like to address?

(01:03:08):
we could go on and on all day about,you know, what I think about, you
know, the future of the industryor what our future is, but I think
we covered a lot of good stuff.
You know, it's interesting I spoketo your dad and to you, you guys
get this glitter in your eye whenyou talk about what you do, you
know, the whole aspect of building.
And I take it back to somebody,you know, imagine this, you're

(01:03:31):
in your car, sun is beside you.
and you're driving by this big high riseand you're, Hey, sunny, Jim, your dad
used to work there on the 15th floor.
Well, you can't see the cubicle thatI was in, but there some, right.
Versus you're going down a neighborhoodand you see other children playing.
Somebody's out cutting the grass.

(01:03:53):
People are walking down thestreet and You look over to
your son and say, we built that.
That's got to warm your heart that theimpact that you have, not only on your
family, but other families and familiesof families, you touch so many people.
And I, I just hope you don'tstrike me as the kind of guy that
would ever take that for granted.
But man, what a gift that mustbe knowing that you've had such a

(01:04:17):
positive influence on so many people.
You know, that is a good point.
I love looking at the projectsthat we have completed, but another
thing that I think of often is.
you know, all the employees and theirfamilies that are impacted by the
work that we are so blessed to do.
I tried to, you know, crush the numbers.

(01:04:40):
It's hard to do so, but, you know, Iwould imagine there's, there's got to
be 500 people on each house, you know,families of the laborer or the painter,
the, You know, drywall or stucco guysand their kids and just knowing that
we're supplying consistent work thatthey can rely on a paycheck, that's

(01:05:02):
something that I, I think we try tovalue as much as possible and, and really
try to value everybody that's involved.
which I think helps them take ownershipout on our jobs when they're there.
You know, they know what, they knewwhat my dad's expectations were.
And I think that's carried down, intojust the name of our company now.

(01:05:26):
And they expect that we're gonna, Expectquality work and good workmanship,
in all aspects of that house.
And it shows when we're done with it.
and you hear it from the neighborsand the people around saying,
yeah, you know, I saw your job.
It's so clean.
You guys just have a differentway of going about in your homes,

(01:05:48):
which is always awesome here.
So
I can't think of a better wayto end this conversation, and
I look forward to the next one.
Pass along my hellos to your dad, uh,have to get this gnarly ass out there
for a beer and a steak, so we'll have,we'll have dinner at your dad's, and
then we'll get into the golf cartand end up at your place for dessert,
That's right.

(01:06:08):
Okay.
got the pool.
So,
There you go.
Thanks again, Patrick.
yeah.
Thank you, Michael.
I appreciate it.
And we'll be talkingto you soon, hopefully.

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What we discussed with Patrick:

Lawler Construction

About Patrick Lawler

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Building Legacy: Patrick Lawler on Second-Generation Leadership in Construction