August 18, 2025 • 26 mins
The average credit decision at Synchrony relies on 9,000 pieces of data. How does the company use all this information to expand credit access while giving consumers the right amount of credit at the right time?
Join Steve Odland and guest Brian Wenzel, chief financial officer at Synchrony, to find out how the company is improving financial literacy, how Synchrony uses machine learning, AI, and other technologies to improve its offerings, and how it reset its culture through active listening and transparency.
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Episode Transcript
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Steve Odland (00:00):
Welcome to C-Suite Perspectives, a signature
series by The Conference Board.
I'm Steve Odland, the CEO ofThe Conference Board and the
host of this podcast series.
And in today's conversation we'regoing to talk about financial literacy,
credit access, and leadership.
Joining me today is theperfect guy to talk about it.
Brian Wenzel, the CFO of Synchrony.
(00:20):
Brian, welcome to the program.
Brian Wenzel (00:22):
Steve, thanks for the invitation.
I'm glad to be here with you today.
Steve Odland (00:26):
So, Brian, tell us a little bit about Synchrony, and
not all of our listeners may knowall of the things that you all do.
Brian Wenzel (00:33):
Yeah, Synchrony was spun out of General Electric a
little over a decade ago, but ourhistory goes back over 90 years.
We started financing refrigeratorsin the Great Depression.
So we know a lot about retailunderwriting and helping consumers
out through difficult times.
And today, we're over a hundredbillion dollars in assets.
We're the largest unsecured creditcard is issue in the United States
(00:56):
of America by number of accounts.
We have 70 million accounts.
So you think about that relativeto the number of Americans.
And we are one of the ones thatare really diverse with regard to
the credit spectrum we deal with.
So we deal with people who are morechallenged credit to super-prime
credits, and then we span acrossmultiple different verticals.
So, we're just there to kindof help consumers live their
(01:17):
lives and hopefully improve onthe way in which they go about it.
Steve Odland (01:21):
Yeah.
The joke about banks is that, if you don'tneed money, they're right there for you.
and but Synchrony is different.
You are providing credit access, as yousaid, going back to the Great Depression
and helping people buy appliances.
I mean, down to sort of microcredit andhelping people who really are in need.
Brian Wenzel (01:39):
Absolutely, Steve.
We have stories.
You think about some of our verticals.
In our health and wellness vertical, wedo an awful lot in the veterinary space.
And when you have someone who has a dog,let's say, that gets injured, and you go
in to see the vet, and you have a couplethousand dollars procedure that has to get
done cause maybe the dog broke its leg.
Taking that financial burden offsomebody, it allows the pet parent to
(02:01):
really focus on the health of theirpet, is a really bonding experience.
Or that ability to finance diapers, for,a new mother to be, or a new mother.
So to be there at every stepof the journey for consumers is
really a rewarding space to be in.
Steve Odland (02:16):
Yeah.
Now obviously this isn't the 1930s,and we're not in a depression, but
there still is a lot of need out there.
And so access to credit iscritically important in today's
economic climate, right?
Brian Wenzel (02:28):
Yeah, Steve.
It's interesting, as you look atAmericans, there's a large number of
Americans who don't have credit scores,who appear to be invisible in the system.
So it's really important for to helppeople get access to credit, and that's
really good for them because then they cango about their lives and really engage in
the economic prosperity of the country.
(02:50):
Going a little bit deeper, Steve, there's45 million credit-invisible people, as
I talked about, that are out there.
And without having access to credit,without building credit, they're
not going to have the ability togive mortgages and do things or just
go about some of the things in theAmerican Dream that we talk about.
And even beyond what I'll callcredit-invisible people are people
who actually come to this country.
And you may have lived in Australia,you may have had a house, you may have
(03:14):
had credit cards, you may have had cars.
You come to America,and you have no credit.
So the ability for us to really lookthrough people that have no scores,
and be able to get alternative datain order to evaluate the credit
worthiness, really can kind of helpthe consumer at the time which they
need to access the financial system.
And allowing people to accessthat financial system builds
(03:36):
their independence, builds theirstability inside our country.
Steve Odland (03:41):
Yeah, now there are a lot of bad stories out there about payday
lenders and people who take advantage ofthese underbanked and people with lack of
credit, which is why it's so important fororganizations like Synchrony to be there.
Talk about the options out there andhow you guys really rise to the top.
Brian Wenzel (04:01):
Yeah.
So, I'd say just under a decade ago,Steve, what we've decided to do was pivot
away from what I would say is a verytraditional type of underwrite model.
If you go out today, people always hearabout your FICO score, your Vantage score.
I'm sure most people who have creditcards can see what their score is online.
They have free access tothe credit bureau reports.
(04:23):
But that was a very traditionalway in which you had several
companies create a proprietarymodel and effectively rate you.
What we decided to do was topivot and not necessarily be
as reliant upon those models.
Yes, in an underwriting decision,we get those scores and those
models, but we also go beyond that.
10 years ago, we used to have ahundred attributes that we would use
(04:48):
in order to make a credit decision.
Today, that's over 9,000 to make acredit decision or open a new account.
And this data, Steve, is data that wemay have experienced something with
you before with one of our products.
When we go out, we get things likeyour utilities payments, other
things that you have on the publicrecords, to kind of bring those in.
And so we take that information andsay, OK, I'm not going to rely solely
(05:11):
on that score, but I'm going to lookat your holistic way, and your credit
score may be low, but we actuallythink you're a pretty good credit.
So therefore, we're going totreat you better than what your
credit score would indicate.
This is our advanced underwritingsystem we call Prism.
We've invested a ton in it.
We try to get as much data so thatwe really can analyze the situation
and make the best decision, becausewhat we want to do is empower people.
(05:34):
And Steve, you talkedabout payday lending.
What you also want to beas a responsible lender.
So give someone the right access to theright amount of credit at the right time.
We don't want to overextend people.
Nor do we want to be too cautious,where we don't give customers credit.
In our model, we generally goto market through our partners.
So this ability to use all thisinformation and different forms
(05:57):
of information is super-criticalbecause I'm not choosing someone.
You may walk into a TJX storethis afternoon, apply for credit.
You may go on PayPal tonightand apply for credit.
I don't know, but I getall this information.
I have to make a very quickdecision with regard to credit.
So it's really important to our model,but it's more about trying to look
at the individual differently thanwhat had historically been done.
Steve Odland (06:21):
So with 9,000 different data points, I mean, you must be making heavy
use of AI and all the recent technologies.
Brian Wenzel (06:29):
We have used machine learnings.
The interesting thing, Steve, right,everyone talks about AI, and particularly
with generative AI now, but we'vealways used machine learnings and
models that constantly update itself.
Even when it comes to fraud, whenit comes to how people perform,
we're constantly taking data.
Again, if you think about 70 millionaverage active customers a month,
(06:49):
we have a ton of different data.
So we have enormous data sets that allowus to build really responsive models
so that we can be a responsible lender.
Steve Odland (06:59):
Yeah, and you've got some examples of cross-sector
collaboration, which is makingequitable access to credit more even.
Talk about some of those approaches.
Brian Wenzel (07:13):
Yeah.
There's one that's called ProjectREACh, which stands for the Roundtable
for Economic Access and Change.
And this is really a public-privatepartnership, not a partnership in the
true sense of the word, but a projectwhere the OCC, the Treasury, and large
financial institutions, includingSynchrony, are using alternative data,
particularly cashflow data, in order toevaluate a consumer's credit worthiness.
(07:39):
And over the course of this project,we've actually originated over 100,000
net-new accounts, which is morethan all the other banks combined.
It's one where we've probablyembraced it a little bit more.
But it is really an initiative, whenyou think about our regulators, the
Treasury, and broad base, all of ussharing data together between those
large financial institutions andourselves in order really to help
(08:02):
individuals who are credit invisible,but really are very decent credits.
We just need to give them theopportunity to provide some
incremental data to establish that.
Steve Odland (08:14):
Yeah.
Now, the world of finance and creditjust seems to be getting more and
more complex, particularly forconsumers who are not in the industry.
And hence, financial literacyis important, and particularly
now, when you have social mediaand you have all the electronic
means of players getting involved.
So talk about the importance offinancial literacy as it relates to
(08:38):
credit access and economic mobility.
Brian Wenzel (08:41):
Yeah, Steve, it's amazing the proliferation of the number of
different financial institutions,products that are out there, that at
times can be overwhelming to individuals.
But really when you get down to it, it'sreally that access to credit, the ability
to have economic mobility, and financialliteracy are all really linked together.
(09:03):
And in order to do that right, youhave to provide them information,
tools in which they can use at theirown pace, to be honest with you, so
that they can manage debt wisely.
They can save, andpotentially invest wisely.
So it's important to provideinformation out to your consumers
that allows them to consume thatinformation and get educated on it.
(09:25):
And this is really importantfor building a bond.
You talk about banks, you talkabout financial institutions.
One of the cores of that is trust.
Trust between the consumerand that institution.
And you build that by providingthem the proper tools in which
they can manage their lives.
We're not trying to just getpeople to borrow money from us.
We're really trying to build a long-term,lasting relationship, which creates
(09:46):
greater lifetime value for our firm.
Steve Odland (09:49):
Yeah.
And all of us have been subjectto those pages and pages of
tiny mice-type boilerplate.
But you do it differently.
I mean, you put it incommon English for people.
Brian Wenzel (09:59):
We want the consumer to understand the product they're getting.
We want them to understandthe terms and conditions.
We want to be as transparent as we can.
That is the method in which we operate.
And we want to make that process notas scary for people, particularly
those who are newer to credit.
You just don't want to confuse them andhave them sign up for a product they
don't necessarily fully understand.
(10:20):
So, complying with the law is mostcertainly important, but making
it clear and transparent is areally, really important thing
that we value at the company.
Steve Odland (10:30):
Yeah.
And it's in everybody's best interestfor them not to get over their skis in
credit, or over their heads, becausethat doesn't end well for anyone.
So it's really important.
It's just so much common sensewhat you're doing to try to make
it very plain and understandable.
But there's a role here foremployers, too, I would think, to
get involved in helping people learnmore and gain financial literacy.
Brian Wenzel (10:54):
Absolutely, Steve.
We talk about wellness as employers.
Wellness is multidimensional, right?
You have financial wellness, you havephysical wellness, you have your mental
health that goes in there, as well.
And what we always say is that if youare not in a good position on any one
of those three levers, it is reallydifficult to come in and perform at the
(11:15):
highest level inside the company today.
And so it's important to providebenefits to people along those lines.
Historically, we always thoughtabout the role of providing
benefits is really insurance, right?
It goes much beyond insurance today.
It's providing them access tosavings, providing them access to
financial planning, whether that'sdirectly through yourself or, to be
(11:38):
honest with you, through partners.
We partner with Fidelity withregard to some of our benefits
programs, making sure theircontent is available to do that.
So it's really looking at the employeefrom a more holistic perspective, and
understanding that wellness isn't justdefined as your physical wellness, but
it goes both to the financial aspects andmost certainly the mental health aspects.
Steve Odland (12:00):
Well, how do you tell whether your customers or your partner's
customers are financially literate.
What metrics do you use thatshow that you're making progress?
Brian Wenzel (12:09):
As you provide tools out there really that the customers can engage
with, one of the things that you do is youput simple—I hate to use the term "test,"
Steve—but put tests out there and kindof gauge whether people are going through
different modules and how they're doing.
It's something you can track over time.
It's something you cantrack different cohorts.
It's something that, we don'treally do this today, unfortunately,
(12:31):
for discrimination reasons,but you'd like to understand
between Gen Zs and baby boomers.
I mean, we have a tremendous mix here.
So having the access where youcan test people as they kind of go
along to see if they're getting it.
And to be honest with you, Steve,you can actually make it fun.
It doesn't have to be like you're incollege, and you're reading a textbook.
You can almost gamify it a little bit.
(12:51):
And the consumers really engage thatand like that, and doesn't make it as
intimidating for them to engage with.
Steve Odland (12:59):
We're talking with Brian Wenzel, the CFO of Synchrony.
We're going to take a shortbreak and be right back.
Welcome back to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm your host, Steve Odland, from TheConference Board, and I'm joined today
by Brian Wenzel, the CFO of Synchrony.
So Brian, in the first half, we weretalking about financial literacy
(13:20):
and credit access and all the greatthings that Synchrony is doing.
In recent years, we have seena lot of shift to focus on the
importance of workplace culture asa driver of organizational success.
And clearly you and your colleagues arevery proud of the culture at Synchrony
(13:41):
and what it drives in the communityand what it drives for your customers.
Talk about that.
Brian Wenzel (13:47):
Steve, we could probably take a whole podcast
on this particular question.
So let me dive in a little bit.
The first thing, and what makesSynchrony a different financial
institution than others is, we arevery value-oriented and purpose-driven.
And that creates much moreof a family-like setting.
And when we talk about values, there'sa lot of companies that put values up.
(14:08):
They're on screensavers,or you get, notepads.
We really go beyond that.
We take people, we define whatthose values are, but we also
tell them the how, like how doyou display that value every day?
And I think when you live, operate,and reward based upon those
values, I think you have a muchmore engaged set of employees.
(14:29):
I would say, Steve,there's been a big pivot.
We are fortunate.
We just got rated number two, great placesto work or best place to work in the US
by Forbes and in Great Places to Work.
We're number one in the Philippinesand number two in India.
And so part of that is, do you evolveas a company as it comes to your people?
And let me give you acouple examples, Steve.
(14:49):
We came through the pandemic, andif we all remember back to March of
'20, when everyone went home, ouremployees told us a couple months in
that they wanted to work from home.
They wanted to have the ability or theaccess in order to have hybrid working.
So we changed our business model, and weallowed people to have hybrid working.
You can commit to the office,or you can work from home.
(15:10):
So this way they can be there whentheir son or daughter gets off the bus.
Or be there when the Amazonpackage comes or whatever.
And we haven't lost anyof our productivity or
creativity with regard to that.
So that's one example.
The second was we transformed ourperformance management process.
Again, there's so many hours thatwere spent doing a formal performance
(15:30):
valuation, putting it into the system.
And then you have these conversations,and people were more caught up
with words on a piece of paperthan they were about the content.
So we narrowed down the specificity ofthe document so it's only a couple of
bullet points that may go into the system.
But what we did is we said,OK, every quarter, we want you
to have a conversation withyour employees and your team.
(15:53):
And so we have richer, betterperformance management feedback.
We also just went into a wholeseparate exercise around, career
experiences and doing that.
And then finally, to be honest withyou, Steve, we've invested quite a
bit on total wellness and benefits.
So, we have sabbaticals, we havean on-site psychologist that's here
(16:13):
you can make appointments with.
We treat the employees in a differentway because we understand the world's
changed over the last five years.
We need to evolve with them.
So those are just a few examples of howI think we try to embrace the employees.
It's still a very competitive world.
We're a very competitive company.
But we approach it a little bitdifferently through our values.
Steve Odland (16:32):
Yeah.
And it doesn't happen accidentally.
I mean, it is a very deliberatething, as you've noted.
You've taken some verydeliberate strategy.
You sit in the C-Suite, and I knowthat you engage in these conversations.
You obviously engage yourboard in these conversations.
What should other senior executiveC-Suite folks be thinking about if they
(16:54):
want to move their culture and becomea great or the best place to work?
Brian Wenzel (17:00):
The first thing is you have to be active listening, you
have to be an active listener, right?
You have to have that ability to engagethe employees in a manner in which
they feel it's a safe space and canprovide real and honest feedback to you.
You talk about boards, Steve, we're oneof the few companies that allows our
board to engage directly with employeesof the company without us present.
(17:22):
So things aren't scripted, thingsaren't prepared, but we allowed them to
kind of come in and embrace the teams.
And that's really important whenyou have that, so transparency's big.
You think about what we wentthrough in the pandemic.
We started a call called Ask Us Anything.
We started in April of 2020,and we had a phone line.
Anyone in the company can get on, andyou can ask any question, unfiltered.
(17:44):
And to be honest with you, back in Aprilof 2020, there were some questions asked
that we said we don't know the answer to.
And I think that built abond with the employees.
So that active listening,that transparency with your
employees and really the caring.
You kind of go back, empathy has becomethis word that we use quite a bit in
business now, but it's really that leadingwith vulnerability and accountability.
(18:07):
It's so, so important when you dothat, because you create trust and
a bond with the employees, that theywill follow you in times of stress.
Steve Odland (18:16):
Do you think it helps that Synchrony is a
relatively new organization?
Yeah, it's nearly a hundred yearsold in one sense as part of GE.
But it's relatively new becauseyou could reset, you renamed
yourself, you repositioned yourself.
You had new leadership, a new board, thisis a decade ago, or around a decade ago.
Does that help that to take thisorganization and reset it and refocus it?
Brian Wenzel (18:40):
Yeah, it allowed us to really focus on the
culture we wanted, right?
When we were inside of General Electric,it was a very established culture.
And when we separated ultimately in2015, what we did is we took the aspects
of that culture we liked, and we leftthe aspects of the culture that weren't
necessarily ones that we embraced.
(19:00):
So we were allowed to do different things.
We do things differently herewhen it comes to benefits.
So it does allow you to reset.
That doesn't mean you have to havea name change or a separation in
your organizational structure.
To do it, you have to have aconscious effort to say, what do
you really value as a company?
But the important thing, Steve,is that the leaders have to
(19:22):
walk the talk, right?
You can't just kind of say, "OK,we're going to change the culture.
We're going to do this." It has to besomething that everyone embraces on the
leadership team, and then you demonstratethat through your actions every day.
Steve Odland (19:36):
But it's not impossible to do in an organization that's been around
a while, but you have to, as you said, youhave to do it deliberately, and you have
to sort of grab people by the lapels andgo, "OK, we're going to do something,
we're going to shift here, we're goingto take a turn here." In other words,
you can't just do it one little drip ata time and expect that kind of results.
(19:57):
So you had the ability to do it becauseof an event, but other companies could
make an event to make it happen, as well.
Brian Wenzel (20:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
It goes down to focus on whatyou want to be, and how do you
want to engage with the employee?
The ultimate thing with being aleader is how do you engage the
team to make them high performing?
Number one, they have to understandthe purpose and the mission.
Number two, they have to beconnected and understand where they
fit in that purpose and mission.
And number three, they have to have trust.
(20:29):
They trust the people to theleft or the right of them.
They trust the leaders.
That's what it's about.
And I think at times organizationsget lost because they think people
understand the mission or understandthe purpose or understand their
role, and they really don't.
And that linkage to the mission andthe purpose is much more than just
a task you do or a process you leador an activity that you oversee.
(20:53):
It's really about, howdo you create value?
And value is not necessarily for thecompany, but it's really for society
and the economy in the United States.
Steve Odland (21:02):
Yeah.
And the world has changed, as you said,and is constantly changing, but the
world of business has changed prettyradically in the last 30 to 50 years.
I mean, it used to be prettyhierarchical, pretty tough.
And in the retail industry, we usedto say, look, if the boss kicks
the team, and the team's going tokick their team, and the last person
(21:22):
that gets kicked is the customer.
So, as a customer in a store or inthat kind of environment, you know
what the culture is cause you feel it.
You are the end recipient of this.
And clearly you all havedone something different.
You've done it just the opposite,which is you started with taking care
of your employees, but that thencascades down, and your customers are
(21:44):
cared for in the same fashion, right?
Brian Wenzel (21:47):
Yeah, absolutely, Steve.
And I think the more you treat theemployees with respect, transparency,
show that you care about them, themore that they care about the company,
are willing to go further for, whetherit's our partners, our merchant
partners, providers, or our customers.
And one of the things we look at asimmeasurable out of this, Steve, when
(22:09):
I look at the attrition rates either innon-exempt or exempt populations, they're
half of what they were a decade ago.
And so when you have a great place towork, when you're showing that you care
about employees, when they feel valuedabout what they're contributing every
day, they're more likely to stay on.
When I look at applications for newroles, they're higher than they ever been.
(22:31):
Because people value thecompany, they value the culture.
That's where I think organizations need tounderstand that this is an investment, and
this investment can have a very high ROI.
Steve Odland (22:43):
Yeah.
So as you look ahead for yourindustry, what do you see as the most
pressing opportunities and also therisks that shape consumer finance?
Brian Wenzel (22:52):
Listen, there's a tremendous opportunity here.
There are so many people who needaccess to credit, and our ability
to create access to credit forthose individuals is incredibly
important to our economy, number one.
Also on that opportunity side, wehave over $70 billion of deposits so
that our ability to help people save,and give them financial products so
(23:13):
that they can grow their personalbalance sheet is really important.
And there's so many small andmidsized businesses where we can
be over 50% of someone's sales.
Businesses are startedevery day, and they grow.
And some grow to the sizeof Amazon, some don't.
But being there for those merchants isa really important part of what we do.
(23:34):
As far as risk goes, there are somany moving variables now, Steve.
When you think about the economy andthe changing nature of what's going on
here in the US, whether it's immigrationpolicy, tariffs, things like that, there
are a lot of risks where the economycan Be a little bit, at times, uneven.
And so what you want to be able todo is make sure you're dynamic enough
(23:57):
to respond to that environment.
But it's really important for us to listento our consumers, watch their behavioral
patterns, and figure out how we canhelp them through any of these times.
It was amazing to watch individualsthrough the pandemic period
and the post-pandemic period.
And now they're goingthrough a different thing.
When you have an inflation that was 9%,they clearly waited on a lot of families.
(24:18):
But they managed through it.
And now we're going through anotherrealm of change, and we'll continue to
be there help them on their journey.
Steve Odland (24:25):
So, just wrapping up then, any last thoughts, advice that
you have for other companies whowould love to have the kind of culture
and success that Synchrony's had?
Brian Wenzel (24:36):
Steve, I said it a couple times in this
listening with your employees is reallyimportant, and valuing what they do.
There's so many companies that say youhave to go back to the office five days
a week or this or that, and they viewthat that's important to the culture.
What's important to the culture is whatyou value, and what you allow them to
(24:56):
bring to the table to do their jobevery day and feel like they're making a
contribution to that mission and purpose.
I think if you could do that, and wedemonstrated this through the pandemic,
that you'll have people who createa bond for you that will go above
and beyond for all your customers.
Steve Odland (25:14):
Brian Wenzel, thanks for being with us today.
Brian Wenzel (25:17):
Steve.
It's my pleasure.
Thank you for the invitation.
Steve Odland (25:21):
And thanks to all of you for listening to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm Steve Odland, and this series has beenbrought to you by The Conference Board.
Welcome to C-Suite Perspectives, a signature
series by The Conference Board.
I'm Steve Odland, the CEO ofThe Conference Board and the
host of this podcast series.
And in today's conversation we'regoing to talk about financial literacy,
credit access, and leadership.
Joining me today is theperfect guy to talk about it.
Brian Wenzel, the CFO of Synchrony.
(00:20):
Brian, welcome to the program.
Brian Wenzel (00:22):
Steve, thanks for the invitation.
I'm glad to be here with you today.
Steve Odland (00:26):
So, Brian, tell us a little bit about Synchrony, and
not all of our listeners may knowall of the things that you all do.
Brian Wenzel (00:33):
Yeah, Synchrony was spun out of General Electric a
little over a decade ago, but ourhistory goes back over 90 years.
We started financing refrigeratorsin the Great Depression.
So we know a lot about retailunderwriting and helping consumers
out through difficult times.
And today, we're over a hundredbillion dollars in assets.
We're the largest unsecured creditcard is issue in the United States
(00:56):
of America by number of accounts.
We have 70 million accounts.
So you think about that relativeto the number of Americans.
And we are one of the ones thatare really diverse with regard to
the credit spectrum we deal with.
So we deal with people who are morechallenged credit to super-prime
credits, and then we span acrossmultiple different verticals.
So, we're just there to kindof help consumers live their
(01:17):
lives and hopefully improve onthe way in which they go about it.
Steve Odland (01:21):
Yeah.
The joke about banks is that, if you don'tneed money, they're right there for you.
and but Synchrony is different.
You are providing credit access, as yousaid, going back to the Great Depression
and helping people buy appliances.
I mean, down to sort of microcredit andhelping people who really are in need.
Brian Wenzel (01:39):
Absolutely, Steve.
We have stories.
You think about some of our verticals.
In our health and wellness vertical, wedo an awful lot in the veterinary space.
And when you have someone who has a dog,let's say, that gets injured, and you go
in to see the vet, and you have a couplethousand dollars procedure that has to get
done cause maybe the dog broke its leg.
Taking that financial burden offsomebody, it allows the pet parent to
(02:01):
really focus on the health of theirpet, is a really bonding experience.
Or that ability to finance diapers, for,a new mother to be, or a new mother.
So to be there at every stepof the journey for consumers is
really a rewarding space to be in.
Steve Odland (02:16):
Yeah.
Now obviously this isn't the 1930s,and we're not in a depression, but
there still is a lot of need out there.
And so access to credit iscritically important in today's
economic climate, right?
Brian Wenzel (02:28):
Yeah, Steve.
It's interesting, as you look atAmericans, there's a large number of
Americans who don't have credit scores,who appear to be invisible in the system.
So it's really important for to helppeople get access to credit, and that's
really good for them because then they cango about their lives and really engage in
the economic prosperity of the country.
(02:50):
Going a little bit deeper, Steve, there's45 million credit-invisible people, as
I talked about, that are out there.
And without having access to credit,without building credit, they're
not going to have the ability togive mortgages and do things or just
go about some of the things in theAmerican Dream that we talk about.
And even beyond what I'll callcredit-invisible people are people
who actually come to this country.
And you may have lived in Australia,you may have had a house, you may have
(03:14):
had credit cards, you may have had cars.
You come to America,and you have no credit.
So the ability for us to really lookthrough people that have no scores,
and be able to get alternative datain order to evaluate the credit
worthiness, really can kind of helpthe consumer at the time which they
need to access the financial system.
And allowing people to accessthat financial system builds
(03:36):
their independence, builds theirstability inside our country.
Steve Odland (03:41):
Yeah, now there are a lot of bad stories out there about payday
lenders and people who take advantage ofthese underbanked and people with lack of
credit, which is why it's so important fororganizations like Synchrony to be there.
Talk about the options out there andhow you guys really rise to the top.
Brian Wenzel (04:01):
Yeah.
So, I'd say just under a decade ago,Steve, what we've decided to do was pivot
away from what I would say is a verytraditional type of underwrite model.
If you go out today, people always hearabout your FICO score, your Vantage score.
I'm sure most people who have creditcards can see what their score is online.
They have free access tothe credit bureau reports.
(04:23):
But that was a very traditionalway in which you had several
companies create a proprietarymodel and effectively rate you.
What we decided to do was topivot and not necessarily be
as reliant upon those models.
Yes, in an underwriting decision,we get those scores and those
models, but we also go beyond that.
10 years ago, we used to have ahundred attributes that we would use
(04:48):
in order to make a credit decision.
Today, that's over 9,000 to make acredit decision or open a new account.
And this data, Steve, is data that wemay have experienced something with
you before with one of our products.
When we go out, we get things likeyour utilities payments, other
things that you have on the publicrecords, to kind of bring those in.
And so we take that information andsay, OK, I'm not going to rely solely
(05:11):
on that score, but I'm going to lookat your holistic way, and your credit
score may be low, but we actuallythink you're a pretty good credit.
So therefore, we're going totreat you better than what your
credit score would indicate.
This is our advanced underwritingsystem we call Prism.
We've invested a ton in it.
We try to get as much data so thatwe really can analyze the situation
and make the best decision, becausewhat we want to do is empower people.
(05:34):
And Steve, you talkedabout payday lending.
What you also want to beas a responsible lender.
So give someone the right access to theright amount of credit at the right time.
We don't want to overextend people.
Nor do we want to be too cautious,where we don't give customers credit.
In our model, we generally goto market through our partners.
So this ability to use all thisinformation and different forms
(05:57):
of information is super-criticalbecause I'm not choosing someone.
You may walk into a TJX storethis afternoon, apply for credit.
You may go on PayPal tonightand apply for credit.
I don't know, but I getall this information.
I have to make a very quickdecision with regard to credit.
So it's really important to our model,but it's more about trying to look
at the individual differently thanwhat had historically been done.
Steve Odland (06:21):
So with 9,000 different data points, I mean, you must be making heavy
use of AI and all the recent technologies.
Brian Wenzel (06:29):
We have used machine learnings.
The interesting thing, Steve, right,everyone talks about AI, and particularly
with generative AI now, but we'vealways used machine learnings and
models that constantly update itself.
Even when it comes to fraud, whenit comes to how people perform,
we're constantly taking data.
Again, if you think about 70 millionaverage active customers a month,
(06:49):
we have a ton of different data.
So we have enormous data sets that allowus to build really responsive models
so that we can be a responsible lender.
Steve Odland (06:59):
Yeah, and you've got some examples of cross-sector
collaboration, which is makingequitable access to credit more even.
Talk about some of those approaches.
Brian Wenzel (07:13):
Yeah.
There's one that's called ProjectREACh, which stands for the Roundtable
for Economic Access and Change.
And this is really a public-privatepartnership, not a partnership in the
true sense of the word, but a projectwhere the OCC, the Treasury, and large
financial institutions, includingSynchrony, are using alternative data,
particularly cashflow data, in order toevaluate a consumer's credit worthiness.
(07:39):
And over the course of this project,we've actually originated over 100,000
net-new accounts, which is morethan all the other banks combined.
It's one where we've probablyembraced it a little bit more.
But it is really an initiative, whenyou think about our regulators, the
Treasury, and broad base, all of ussharing data together between those
large financial institutions andourselves in order really to help
(08:02):
individuals who are credit invisible,but really are very decent credits.
We just need to give them theopportunity to provide some
incremental data to establish that.
Steve Odland (08:14):
Yeah.
Now, the world of finance and creditjust seems to be getting more and
more complex, particularly forconsumers who are not in the industry.
And hence, financial literacyis important, and particularly
now, when you have social mediaand you have all the electronic
means of players getting involved.
So talk about the importance offinancial literacy as it relates to
(08:38):
credit access and economic mobility.
Brian Wenzel (08:41):
Yeah, Steve, it's amazing the proliferation of the number of
different financial institutions,products that are out there, that at
times can be overwhelming to individuals.
But really when you get down to it, it'sreally that access to credit, the ability
to have economic mobility, and financialliteracy are all really linked together.
(09:03):
And in order to do that right, youhave to provide them information,
tools in which they can use at theirown pace, to be honest with you, so
that they can manage debt wisely.
They can save, andpotentially invest wisely.
So it's important to provideinformation out to your consumers
that allows them to consume thatinformation and get educated on it.
(09:25):
And this is really importantfor building a bond.
You talk about banks, you talkabout financial institutions.
One of the cores of that is trust.
Trust between the consumerand that institution.
And you build that by providingthem the proper tools in which
they can manage their lives.
We're not trying to just getpeople to borrow money from us.
We're really trying to build a long-term,lasting relationship, which creates
(09:46):
greater lifetime value for our firm.
Steve Odland (09:49):
Yeah.
And all of us have been subjectto those pages and pages of
tiny mice-type boilerplate.
But you do it differently.
I mean, you put it incommon English for people.
Brian Wenzel (09:59):
We want the consumer to understand the product they're getting.
We want them to understandthe terms and conditions.
We want to be as transparent as we can.
That is the method in which we operate.
And we want to make that process notas scary for people, particularly
those who are newer to credit.
You just don't want to confuse them andhave them sign up for a product they
don't necessarily fully understand.
(10:20):
So, complying with the law is mostcertainly important, but making
it clear and transparent is areally, really important thing
that we value at the company.
Steve Odland (10:30):
Yeah.
And it's in everybody's best interestfor them not to get over their skis in
credit, or over their heads, becausethat doesn't end well for anyone.
So it's really important.
It's just so much common sensewhat you're doing to try to make
it very plain and understandable.
But there's a role here foremployers, too, I would think, to
get involved in helping people learnmore and gain financial literacy.
Brian Wenzel (10:54):
Absolutely, Steve.
We talk about wellness as employers.
Wellness is multidimensional, right?
You have financial wellness, you havephysical wellness, you have your mental
health that goes in there, as well.
And what we always say is that if youare not in a good position on any one
of those three levers, it is reallydifficult to come in and perform at the
(11:15):
highest level inside the company today.
And so it's important to providebenefits to people along those lines.
Historically, we always thoughtabout the role of providing
benefits is really insurance, right?
It goes much beyond insurance today.
It's providing them access tosavings, providing them access to
financial planning, whether that'sdirectly through yourself or, to be
(11:38):
honest with you, through partners.
We partner with Fidelity withregard to some of our benefits
programs, making sure theircontent is available to do that.
So it's really looking at the employeefrom a more holistic perspective, and
understanding that wellness isn't justdefined as your physical wellness, but
it goes both to the financial aspects andmost certainly the mental health aspects.
Steve Odland (12:00):
Well, how do you tell whether your customers or your partner's
customers are financially literate.
What metrics do you use thatshow that you're making progress?
Brian Wenzel (12:09):
As you provide tools out there really that the customers can engage
with, one of the things that you do is youput simple—I hate to use the term "test,"
Steve—but put tests out there and kindof gauge whether people are going through
different modules and how they're doing.
It's something you can track over time.
It's something you cantrack different cohorts.
It's something that, we don'treally do this today, unfortunately,
(12:31):
for discrimination reasons,but you'd like to understand
between Gen Zs and baby boomers.
I mean, we have a tremendous mix here.
So having the access where youcan test people as they kind of go
along to see if they're getting it.
And to be honest with you, Steve,you can actually make it fun.
It doesn't have to be like you're incollege, and you're reading a textbook.
You can almost gamify it a little bit.
(12:51):
And the consumers really engage thatand like that, and doesn't make it as
intimidating for them to engage with.
Steve Odland (12:59):
We're talking with Brian Wenzel, the CFO of Synchrony.
We're going to take a shortbreak and be right back.
Welcome back to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm your host, Steve Odland, from TheConference Board, and I'm joined today
by Brian Wenzel, the CFO of Synchrony.
So Brian, in the first half, we weretalking about financial literacy
(13:20):
and credit access and all the greatthings that Synchrony is doing.
In recent years, we have seena lot of shift to focus on the
importance of workplace culture asa driver of organizational success.
And clearly you and your colleagues arevery proud of the culture at Synchrony
(13:41):
and what it drives in the communityand what it drives for your customers.
Talk about that.
Brian Wenzel (13:47):
Steve, we could probably take a whole podcast
on this particular question.
So let me dive in a little bit.
The first thing, and what makesSynchrony a different financial
institution than others is, we arevery value-oriented and purpose-driven.
And that creates much moreof a family-like setting.
And when we talk about values, there'sa lot of companies that put values up.
(14:08):
They're on screensavers,or you get, notepads.
We really go beyond that.
We take people, we define whatthose values are, but we also
tell them the how, like how doyou display that value every day?
And I think when you live, operate,and reward based upon those
values, I think you have a muchmore engaged set of employees.
(14:29):
I would say, Steve,there's been a big pivot.
We are fortunate.
We just got rated number two, great placesto work or best place to work in the US
by Forbes and in Great Places to Work.
We're number one in the Philippinesand number two in India.
And so part of that is, do you evolveas a company as it comes to your people?
And let me give you acouple examples, Steve.
(14:49):
We came through the pandemic, andif we all remember back to March of
'20, when everyone went home, ouremployees told us a couple months in
that they wanted to work from home.
They wanted to have the ability or theaccess in order to have hybrid working.
So we changed our business model, and weallowed people to have hybrid working.
You can commit to the office,or you can work from home.
(15:10):
So this way they can be there whentheir son or daughter gets off the bus.
Or be there when the Amazonpackage comes or whatever.
And we haven't lost anyof our productivity or
creativity with regard to that.
So that's one example.
The second was we transformed ourperformance management process.
Again, there's so many hours thatwere spent doing a formal performance
(15:30):
valuation, putting it into the system.
And then you have these conversations,and people were more caught up
with words on a piece of paperthan they were about the content.
So we narrowed down the specificity ofthe document so it's only a couple of
bullet points that may go into the system.
But what we did is we said,OK, every quarter, we want you
to have a conversation withyour employees and your team.
(15:53):
And so we have richer, betterperformance management feedback.
We also just went into a wholeseparate exercise around, career
experiences and doing that.
And then finally, to be honest withyou, Steve, we've invested quite a
bit on total wellness and benefits.
So, we have sabbaticals, we havean on-site psychologist that's here
(16:13):
you can make appointments with.
We treat the employees in a differentway because we understand the world's
changed over the last five years.
We need to evolve with them.
So those are just a few examples of howI think we try to embrace the employees.
It's still a very competitive world.
We're a very competitive company.
But we approach it a little bitdifferently through our values.
Steve Odland (16:32):
Yeah.
And it doesn't happen accidentally.
I mean, it is a very deliberatething, as you've noted.
You've taken some verydeliberate strategy.
You sit in the C-Suite, and I knowthat you engage in these conversations.
You obviously engage yourboard in these conversations.
What should other senior executiveC-Suite folks be thinking about if they
(16:54):
want to move their culture and becomea great or the best place to work?
Brian Wenzel (17:00):
The first thing is you have to be active listening, you
have to be an active listener, right?
You have to have that ability to engagethe employees in a manner in which
they feel it's a safe space and canprovide real and honest feedback to you.
You talk about boards, Steve, we're oneof the few companies that allows our
board to engage directly with employeesof the company without us present.
(17:22):
So things aren't scripted, thingsaren't prepared, but we allowed them to
kind of come in and embrace the teams.
And that's really important whenyou have that, so transparency's big.
You think about what we wentthrough in the pandemic.
We started a call called Ask Us Anything.
We started in April of 2020,and we had a phone line.
Anyone in the company can get on, andyou can ask any question, unfiltered.
(17:44):
And to be honest with you, back in Aprilof 2020, there were some questions asked
that we said we don't know the answer to.
And I think that built abond with the employees.
So that active listening,that transparency with your
employees and really the caring.
You kind of go back, empathy has becomethis word that we use quite a bit in
business now, but it's really that leadingwith vulnerability and accountability.
(18:07):
It's so, so important when you dothat, because you create trust and
a bond with the employees, that theywill follow you in times of stress.
Steve Odland (18:16):
Do you think it helps that Synchrony is a
relatively new organization?
Yeah, it's nearly a hundred yearsold in one sense as part of GE.
But it's relatively new becauseyou could reset, you renamed
yourself, you repositioned yourself.
You had new leadership, a new board, thisis a decade ago, or around a decade ago.
Does that help that to take thisorganization and reset it and refocus it?
Brian Wenzel (18:40):
Yeah, it allowed us to really focus on the
culture we wanted, right?
When we were inside of General Electric,it was a very established culture.
And when we separated ultimately in2015, what we did is we took the aspects
of that culture we liked, and we leftthe aspects of the culture that weren't
necessarily ones that we embraced.
(19:00):
So we were allowed to do different things.
We do things differently herewhen it comes to benefits.
So it does allow you to reset.
That doesn't mean you have to havea name change or a separation in
your organizational structure.
To do it, you have to have aconscious effort to say, what do
you really value as a company?
But the important thing, Steve,is that the leaders have to
(19:22):
walk the talk, right?
You can't just kind of say, "OK,we're going to change the culture.
We're going to do this." It has to besomething that everyone embraces on the
leadership team, and then you demonstratethat through your actions every day.
Steve Odland (19:36):
But it's not impossible to do in an organization that's been around
a while, but you have to, as you said, youhave to do it deliberately, and you have
to sort of grab people by the lapels andgo, "OK, we're going to do something,
we're going to shift here, we're goingto take a turn here." In other words,
you can't just do it one little drip ata time and expect that kind of results.
(19:57):
So you had the ability to do it becauseof an event, but other companies could
make an event to make it happen, as well.
Brian Wenzel (20:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
It goes down to focus on whatyou want to be, and how do you
want to engage with the employee?
The ultimate thing with being aleader is how do you engage the
team to make them high performing?
Number one, they have to understandthe purpose and the mission.
Number two, they have to beconnected and understand where they
fit in that purpose and mission.
And number three, they have to have trust.
(20:29):
They trust the people to theleft or the right of them.
They trust the leaders.
That's what it's about.
And I think at times organizationsget lost because they think people
understand the mission or understandthe purpose or understand their
role, and they really don't.
And that linkage to the mission andthe purpose is much more than just
a task you do or a process you leador an activity that you oversee.
(20:53):
It's really about, howdo you create value?
And value is not necessarily for thecompany, but it's really for society
and the economy in the United States.
Steve Odland (21:02):
Yeah.
And the world has changed, as you said,and is constantly changing, but the
world of business has changed prettyradically in the last 30 to 50 years.
I mean, it used to be prettyhierarchical, pretty tough.
And in the retail industry, we usedto say, look, if the boss kicks
the team, and the team's going tokick their team, and the last person
(21:22):
that gets kicked is the customer.
So, as a customer in a store or inthat kind of environment, you know
what the culture is cause you feel it.
You are the end recipient of this.
And clearly you all havedone something different.
You've done it just the opposite,which is you started with taking care
of your employees, but that thencascades down, and your customers are
(21:44):
cared for in the same fashion, right?
Brian Wenzel (21:47):
Yeah, absolutely, Steve.
And I think the more you treat theemployees with respect, transparency,
show that you care about them, themore that they care about the company,
are willing to go further for, whetherit's our partners, our merchant
partners, providers, or our customers.
And one of the things we look at asimmeasurable out of this, Steve, when
(22:09):
I look at the attrition rates either innon-exempt or exempt populations, they're
half of what they were a decade ago.
And so when you have a great place towork, when you're showing that you care
about employees, when they feel valuedabout what they're contributing every
day, they're more likely to stay on.
When I look at applications for newroles, they're higher than they ever been.
(22:31):
Because people value thecompany, they value the culture.
That's where I think organizations need tounderstand that this is an investment, and
this investment can have a very high ROI.
Steve Odland (22:43):
Yeah.
So as you look ahead for yourindustry, what do you see as the most
pressing opportunities and also therisks that shape consumer finance?
Brian Wenzel (22:52):
Listen, there's a tremendous opportunity here.
There are so many people who needaccess to credit, and our ability
to create access to credit forthose individuals is incredibly
important to our economy, number one.
Also on that opportunity side, wehave over $70 billion of deposits so
that our ability to help people save,and give them financial products so
(23:13):
that they can grow their personalbalance sheet is really important.
And there's so many small andmidsized businesses where we can
be over 50% of someone's sales.
Businesses are startedevery day, and they grow.
And some grow to the sizeof Amazon, some don't.
But being there for those merchants isa really important part of what we do.
(23:34):
As far as risk goes, there are somany moving variables now, Steve.
When you think about the economy andthe changing nature of what's going on
here in the US, whether it's immigrationpolicy, tariffs, things like that, there
are a lot of risks where the economycan Be a little bit, at times, uneven.
And so what you want to be able todo is make sure you're dynamic enough
(23:57):
to respond to that environment.
But it's really important for us to listento our consumers, watch their behavioral
patterns, and figure out how we canhelp them through any of these times.
It was amazing to watch individualsthrough the pandemic period
and the post-pandemic period.
And now they're goingthrough a different thing.
When you have an inflation that was 9%,they clearly waited on a lot of families.
(24:18):
But they managed through it.
And now we're going through anotherrealm of change, and we'll continue to
be there help them on their journey.
Steve Odland (24:25):
So, just wrapping up then, any last thoughts, advice that
you have for other companies whowould love to have the kind of culture
and success that Synchrony's had?
Brian Wenzel (24:36):
Steve, I said it a couple times in this
listening with your employees is reallyimportant, and valuing what they do.
There's so many companies that say youhave to go back to the office five days
a week or this or that, and they viewthat that's important to the culture.
What's important to the culture is whatyou value, and what you allow them to
(24:56):
bring to the table to do their jobevery day and feel like they're making a
contribution to that mission and purpose.
I think if you could do that, and wedemonstrated this through the pandemic,
that you'll have people who createa bond for you that will go above
and beyond for all your customers.
Steve Odland (25:14):
Brian Wenzel, thanks for being with us today.
Brian Wenzel (25:17):
Steve.
It's my pleasure.
Thank you for the invitation.
Steve Odland (25:21):
And thanks to all of you for listening to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm Steve Odland, and this series has beenbrought to you by The Conference Board.
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