April 28, 2025 • 26 mins
Change is constant, and that’s why your business needsa structured change management strategy.
Your business is constantly changing, even if you don’t use the term “change management” to describe it. What does successful change management look like, and how can business leaders do this successfully in a time of uncertainty?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve Odland (00:00):
Welcome to C-Suite Perspectives, a signature
series by The Conference Board.
I'm Steve Odland from The ConferenceBoard and the host of this podcast
series, and in today's conversationwe're going to discuss change management.
What is it?
Do we still need it?
When and how.
Joining me today is Diana Scott, thecenter leader of the US Human Capital
(00:21):
Center at The Conference Board.
Diana, welcome.
Diana Scott (00:24):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Steve.
Steve Odland (00:26):
Diana, you've been doing this for a long time.
You were the chief HR officer atGuardian Life, Prologis, John Hancock.
You now run the Human Capital Center.
And you can't pick up a newspaper orwatch television without just hearing
about all the change that's happening.
It's happening in our world,it's happening in the country,
(00:48):
it's happening in your companies.
But change managementis something different.
It's a reaction to change, and it'sa proactive means that companies use.
Talk about what it isand why it's important.
Diana Scott (01:04):
Thank you, and thank you for having me.
Change management is a very structuredapproach, actually, to change all around
us, and it's a structured approach thathelps to guide individuals and teams
and organizations from the currentstate to the desired future state.
And I think the thing that, really, peopleneed to focus on when they're thinking
(01:29):
about how to manage change throughan organization is the people impact.
And so a structured change managementprogram or approach really focuses
on, "How does change impact people?"and "How can you help to guide people
through that process in a very structuredway?" so that you can come out at the
end with people embracing the changeand excited about the future that
(01:54):
change holds for them individually,as well as their organization.
Steve Odland (01:59):
Yeah.
Now change is weird.
Some of it is deliberate.
And everybody likes change as longas it happens to somebody else.
They don't, human beings don't liketo change on their own cause they
like the ritual of their daily life.
But change is something thatcompanies do, people do deliberately.
And then there's also change that sortof comes at you that you don't control.
Diana Scott (02:20):
That's a very important point, as well.
The part that we don't control isactually the part that is usually the
most disruptive and upsetting to people.
Cause, as you said, wedon't really like change.
We can say we like change.
We sometimes like the outcome of change.
But people going through the changeprocess rarely enjoy the process
(02:43):
because they like the way, theylike the predictability and the
certainty of their current lives.
And anytime you inject something newand different, they've got to think
about, "How does this affect me?
How does this affect my future?
How does this affect my organization?
And what am I going to need to doto be successful in this new world
order, whatever that might be?"
Steve Odland (03:05):
And so when you're talking about change management, it is about
both how do you react to what's comingat you and how do you deal with that?
But then also, how do you affectchange so that there's a proactive and
reactive aspect to change management?
Diana Scott (03:21):
Absolutely.
And I think, to the point thatyou made earlier, there are things
that we do and decisions we make asleaders of companies to change the
way we do business, to change themarket, to change the technology
platforms we work with, to change theorganizational structure, whatever.
There's a lot of change that happensand we as leaders control that.
(03:44):
There's also a lot of change thathappens external to an organization
that has to do with marketdynamics, geopolitical changes.
We're in the middle of a lot ofchange right now that most of us
have absolutely no control over,and yet, as leaders, we need to
guide our organizations through it.
And we need to get our people tounderstand what they can control,
(04:07):
what they can't control, and howthey can help themselves and the
organization navigate through this.
Steve Odland (04:14):
Now, this term change management's been around a long time.
I remember hearing it a few decadesago, and it was a strange word that
came about, and then it faded away.
Talk about the history of, theconcept of change management.
Diana Scott (04:30):
Change management was very popular sort of at the end of the last
century, the 20th century, so it ismore than 20 years, and became a real
discipline, because I think people realizethat if you can move an organization
through a change process in a moresystematic way, you're going to have
(04:51):
more successful outcomes at the end.
But I think the fact that you don't hearabout it as much doesn't mean that it's
not necessary or that it's not happening.
There's so many things thatare driving the need for change
management as companies becomemore global, as technology changes.
(05:11):
Rapid-fire changes impact how we need toadapt and be resilient and manage through
those so that we can be successful.
So the need for change is probablymore prevalent than it ever was.
I think the term has been somewhatembedded into just the overall process
of how people think about introducingnew systems, new markets, new
(05:35):
approaches within their organizations.
So perhaps it's become more part ofhow we talk about our culture and how
we drive organizational and marketchanges through the organization.
But it's there, and it's necessary.
Steve Odland (05:49):
Yeah.
And your point is, it's evenmore necessary than ever before.
So this is why we're talking about it,because you don't hear people deliberately
discussing how to manage or affectchange in the way that they used to.
And it's time that we reallyresurrect this whole process and
(06:09):
make sure that future generationsare trained on how to do it because
change will never stop happening.
Diana Scott (06:16):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Everything seems to beaccelerating these days.
And it's coming at organizations and theirpeople from so many different directions.
So it's not a mono approach to things.
You really have to be able to adapt toelements that are changing all around you,
(06:37):
and figure out how to systemically bringthem together, and figure out what you
can control and what you can't control.
And do some scenario planning around"what ifs." What if it works this way?
Goes left or goes right?
And all the different elementsare not always predictable.
So that adaptability and that resiliencethat we very often talk about now,
(07:01):
which is so necessary for leaders,right down to front-line managers.
If you're effective at changemanagement, those are the things
that you're going to address now.
Steve Odland (07:11):
So give us some examples of the kinds of situations that
require deliberate change management?
Diana Scott (07:18):
The most obvious one is probably technology change, when you're
implementing a new technology system.
We're all talking about AI rightnow and the impact that's having on
organizations, the opportunity it presentsto perhaps improve productivity, to
make people's jobs more interesting.
(07:38):
But to get people to actuallyadapt to that change requires
the modeling of the behavior, itrequires training, it requires
leaders really setting the example.
And it requires just a moreorganized approach to how you
handle the entire situation.
Steve Odland (08:00):
Yeah.
And it needs to be deliberate.
There needs to be a plan.
You need to work it out.
There needs to be dates,there needs to be steps.
All of these kinds of thingsthat you don't think about.
You don't hear anybody talking about that.
You just hear AI, AI.
Like Old MacDonald's farm (08:12):
A-I-A-I-O.
It just goes on.
But in order to really carry this througha company in an orchestrated fashion
and make it work and make it be moreproductive, there needs to be training,
there needs to be a deliberate rollout.
Some people love this stuff, pick it up.
Some people don't.
But you need to deal with peopleof all different kinds of styles.
(08:37):
It's also cultural, Diana, there arecertain cultures around the world, if
you're in a global business, that aretrained and prefer to be told what
to do, and leaders need to do that.
Others are more organic.
They say that Americans liketo color outside the lines.
It is not just one way of doing things.
And so change management, whenyou're thinking about effecting a
(08:59):
different process or implementationof new software or practices.
You can't just say, "OK, there's one wayto do things. We're just going to throw
it out there and have people follow it."You really have to, as you said, you have
to be there for people who read and learnthat way, people who hear and learn that
way, people who have to experience things.
(09:20):
And then, it's the repetition.
You have to do it over and overagain to make sure these things
are seeded in an organization.
Diana Scott (09:27):
Exactly.
And I think the fact that we recognizethat people are so different is a strength
that organizations have now today.
Diversity, we see diversity as a strength.
Different approaches,different ways of thinking.
You really want to have a team thatis diverse, but to your point, that
also means that you have to recognizethat one size does not fit all.
(09:47):
And so as you manage change throughan organization, you have to
approach how you do that potentiallydifferently to different types of
audiences, because they're going toembrace change in different ways.
They're going to learn differently.
And that's going to require that youhave a very nuanced approach to how you
manage this through an organization.
(10:09):
And very often in the past, when changehas not been done effectively in an
organization, it probably had to dowith the leadership not recognizing that
you can't just jam it through one way.
It really is importantto bring people on board.
And when you have people's buy-in,and they get excited about it, and
(10:30):
you're able to find champions withinyour organization, that's when
change really works effectively inpushing it through an organization.
Steve Odland (10:39):
So what do you think of as the key steps in
effecting change management?
Diana Scott (10:44):
It doesn't matter what kind of change you're implementing.
It could be technology, it could berestructuring your entire organization,
it could be some sort of processoverhaul, or maybe you're even
trying to change your entire culture.
There you really need to step back firstand say, OK, why are we doing this?
What is the need for thischange, and why are we doing it?
(11:05):
And what are the things that are going towhat are the desired outcomes, and what
are we going to need to do to actuallydrive this through the organization?
So it's stepping back andassessing, for starters.
So, being thoughtful about it.
And then I think you really doneed to just develop a roadmap.
You need to understand (11:22):
What are your goals, what are the timelines
that you're trying to affect?
This doesn't need to takea lot of time, either.
You can do this pretty quickly, but it'simportant to go through these steps.
And then you need to thinkabout your stakeholders.
Who are all the different stakeholders,and what are the differences in
how they might see this change?
Cause in the end, you've got to beable to get a message to them of "Why
(11:45):
are we doing this?" and "How is thisgoing to benefit you or your part of
the organization?" and "What is thechange that's going to be required?"
And make sure that they see themselvesin this change, and they can understand
the rationale, as well as the impactand the outcome that's desired
(12:06):
and how it's going to impact them.
"What's in it for me?" Andnot that we're all inherently
egotistical, but the "What's in itfor me?" Becomes really important.
And then you just have to execute,and you have to execute flawlessly.
You have to say, OK, I made a plan.
Now let's go through and actuallyimplement this change to the organization,
and let's make sure that we're reviewingconstantly so that we're seeing,
(12:29):
is it working the way we thought?
Are there any changes that we need tomake as we go through this process?
And then, in the end,how effective was it?
How do we measure the actualsuccess of this particular change?
Steve Odland (12:43):
We're talking about change management and organizations.
So we're going to take ashort break and be right back.
Welcome back to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm your host, Steve Odland, from TheConference Board, and I'm joined today by
Diana Scott, Center Leader of the US HumanCapital Center at The Conference Board.
Diana, before the break, we weretalking about how to implement the
(13:04):
change, and you talked about needingto have a plan, timetables, specific
steps, dates, and all of that.
But you can't just throw it out there.
You can't just then go do that,and do it once, and it's done.
Because there's this whole thingabout, in order for it to be taken
seriously, anything in an organizationto be taken seriously, they have
to hear it in multiple ways andrepetitively, over and over again.
(13:27):
So there needs to be a lotof different ways to do this.
As I've watched you implement change.
You do it in group settings, youdo it one-on-one, you write it into
objectives, you do brown-bag lunchesto talk about it, you have people
discuss their own experiences.
Talk about all of these differentmechanisms that you've found successful.
Diana Scott (13:51):
So probably the most important thing is transparency.
We talk a lot about transparency and how,if you're transparent and very authentic
about why we're doing this, the need forit, and leaders are really open about
it, you can pretty much get anybodyon board, even if it's not going to be
(14:12):
entirely positive for that individual.
Transparency is probablythe most important thing.
And then I think it's beginningyour communication and involving
employees early on, which isalso a degree of transparency.
So they feel like thiswasn't just thrown at them.
So they begin to understand and areable to absorb the change that's
coming, understand the impactit's going to have on them, and
(14:34):
get excited about the positives.
Cause change is inherently, you makethese changes for positive outcomes.
So if you can help them understand bygetting them involved early where they
feel like it's not happening to them, butthey actually are involved and engaged and
have a little bit of say in the processand that they're being listened to.
(14:54):
I think if you do those well, andthen you provide what we talked
about earlier—support, training youwant to make sure that you give them
all the tools that they need to besuccessful in adapting to the change.
Whether it means they need to learnnew skills, they need to understand
a new organizational structure,they need to understand a new
(15:15):
market, they need to use new toolsand technology, their job is done.
Whatever it is, you're giving them supportand training, and you're showing them
that you have empathy for the fact thatthey are having to go through this change.
But that kind of supportis really important.
And then again, back to transparency.
I think as issues arise along theway, we have to be listening really
(15:39):
carefully to our employees and all thestakeholders and say, "What are your
concerns?" And address them quicklyso that they can feel heard again.
Steve Odland (15:50):
Yeah.
Now, one of the tools that companieshave found useful in implementing change
is the RACI tool, RACI, as an acronym.
Just if you could, describe thetool, what it is, what each of the
letters stand for, and why it's useful.
Diana Scott (16:07):
So RACI is a very good framework for ensuring that the roles
and your responsibilities are very clearin any kind of implementation or in any
kind of structure where work is gettingdone across a number of different teams.
So the R stands for "responsible." Thoseare the people that are going to be held
(16:30):
responsible for getting the work done.
"Accountability" is theA. Who is accountable?
Typically, those are folks higherup in the organization who are
providing the vision and making surethat things are properly resourced.
C is "consulted," meaning you're goingto be consulted for your expertise.
(16:50):
But that's it.
You're not going to be responsible.
It will be taken into accountand incorporated, but you
shouldn't expect that you'regoing to be the decision-maker.
So I think that's important, as well.
And then the I stands for "informed,"where you're going to be informed
because you're potentiallyimpacted, but you're really not held
accountable or responsible for it.
(17:10):
But you also need to understand that otherexperts are perhaps driving the process.
So you need to be informed andfigure out how this impacts
you and your own organization.
Steve Odland (17:20):
So the tool is really a grid.
It's an outline of each of thesteps and then who is accountable,
who's responsible, who should beconsulted, and who should be informed.
And this is a way to make sure that youeffect change in the communication and
the involvement in an appropriate way.
But then, when you think about it,who should have the accountability
or the A for change management?
Diana Scott (17:42):
It typically has to be the leadership, because they're the ones that
are going to make sure that strategically,this is important, it's happening.
They make sure that theeffort is resourced properly.
They're the ones that are probablydirecting the change because
it is important to the businessoutcomes and the overall business
strategy of the organization.
(18:03):
The leadership is going to beresponsible for whoever is leading
that particular area of change.
Steve Odland (18:09):
Yeah.
And then who should be responsible?
Diana Scott (18:11):
I think that really is going to lie in the
people who are change managers.
But it's the management, it's moreof the frontline management and the
team of individuals—sometimes itis within HR—that is helping guide
that change to the organization,working with the managers to ensure
that the communication is happening,that the training is properly set up.
(18:36):
So depending on which aspect of thechange you're talking about, it could
shift slightly, but it's typically thosethat are charged with putting together
an effective change management approach.
Steve Odland (18:49):
And so as you think about all the various areas of an
organization or a company, which onesshould use change management as a process?
Diana Scott (19:02):
Probably all of them.
Just think about it.
Certainly, if you're in HR, HR is goingto typically provide a lot of support
for change across the organization.
But if you're dealing with organizationalchange, if you're dealing with
reductions in force, if you're dealingwith policy changes, those are all
going to be required that those bemanaged effectively as they roll out
(19:25):
through an organization, and HR isgoing to have to use this approach.
If you think about people who are inoperations, if you're changing a process
or maybe adopting new approaches to yoursupply chain, whatever, that's going to
require change through the organization.
If you're changing a technology platform,that's a huge lift across an organization.
(19:47):
That requires a very distant, disciplined,systematic approach to change management.
So I guess my answer is everywhere.
It really needs to be thought througheverywhere in an organization.
Steve Odland (19:59):
Yeah.
Any place that is trying to affectany change at all—and some of that
comes from HR—but when it doesn'tcome from HR, HR can actually play an
important role to help the other groups.
Diana Scott (20:11):
Absolutely.
We always say that change management isreally about helping people embrace,
understand, and get on board aroundchanges that are happening around
them and within their organization.
And the HR organization is really chargedwith understanding the people aspects.
(20:35):
Not that they are responsible solelyfor those cause, frankly, we all are
responsible for, all managers really needto feel responsible for their people.
But I think the fact that we havethat discipline and understanding of
psychologically, what drives peopleto embrace change or resist change,
and how can you reduce some of thatresistance and help people get on board?
(20:58):
I think HR can be really effectivein driving a lot of the different
aspects of change management.
Steve Odland (21:04):
Yeah, and this is where, if you're a business leader, you're
running a business unit or whatever,you really need to tap into your HR
colleagues to help you with this.
It's communication.
It's process, it's all of these things.
You can't just throw somethingout there and expect it to take.
You really have to manage itvery directly and deliberately.
(21:24):
And this is a role that I think HRprofessionals really are best at.
Diana Scott (21:31):
Yes.
One of probably the most important thingsthat an HR organization can do, working
with a manager who's implementing somemajor change in their organization, is
to help the manager assess how readythe organization is for this change.
Because again, if you can predict wherethe pockets of resistance are going to
(21:54):
come, what the major aspects of the changeare, and how they're going to impact
individuals within the organization.
How is it going to change the structure?
How is it going to change?
What skills are necessary?
And do we have those skills today?
Where are those going to come from?
How effective are we at communication,and how do we need to support
(22:15):
the communication process?
Are the frontline managers ready for thisand do they have the skills necessary?
That assessment of changereadiness is such an important
part of that upfront step.
And the HR organization typicallyis best equipped to help
managers think through that.
Steve Odland (22:35):
So that's the upfront stuff.
And then you have the deliberate planthat's being implemented, but there's
also a need then to track that asyou're going to see how it's going.
And this, too, is a very importantplace for HR executives to intervene.
Diana Scott (22:55):
Absolutely.
And I think how youmeasure it is important.
You have to see, is it sticking?
Are the changes that we madehaving the predicted outcome?
Are we improving productivity?
Have our turnover rates gone up or down?
So you have to get a senseof, is this change accepted
(23:18):
and are people more productive?
Are they more engaged?
Are they deliveringbetter business outcomes?
Whatever the intent of the change wasin the first place, whether it was a
technology change or an operationalchange or a market shift, you need
to understand what those outcomes are.
And I think that's the importantpart, cause you need to then
(23:39):
course-correct along the way.
If things are not going as youpredicted, you need to understand why.
And I think the HR organizationcan certainly help with a lot
of that because we look atturnover, we look at engagement.
We are trying to get a better sense of,overall sentiment and other factors that
really drive your employment brand andyour culture, your ability to attract
(24:04):
the best for talent and retain it.
Steve Odland (24:06):
Yeah.
And yeah, everything changes once youstart implementing, and you've got to be
able to pivot, and this is why measuringis important and tracking is important.
We talked at the beginning about changethat you effect in your organization,
and then you talked about dealingwith change that comes at you.
We're in a situation now, we're in a worldwhere change is coming at us very quickly.
(24:30):
And we don't think about change managementas something that we deal with about
change that comes at us, but it's reallyimportant that HR professionals think
about what's coming at the organizationfrom the environment, as you said, the
political environment, policy environment,geopolitical stuff, and to help people
deal with this changing environment.
Talk about that.
Diana Scott (24:51):
In those scenarios, probably the most important
thing, again, is transparency andcommunication and listening so that
you understand the anxiety thatexists in your own organization.
And then being very clear andtransparent—and this is where
leaders really need to stepup and prove their mettle.
(25:12):
Being able to communicate, calm thewaters, talk about in a very transparent
way how whatever is coming at us isimpacting our organization and then
what we're going to do about it.
And also settle people down so thatthey can remain focused on, "OK, I don't
have any control over this, but what arethe things that we do have control over
(25:34):
that are going to allow us to settle ourorganization, make sure that we're doing
everything we can to secure the revenueand meet our plans as we can?" But make
sure that, even if we can't do all ofthat, what's the path forward then?
And when we come out at the otherend—cause I think, again, reminding people
that the world works in cycles, andwe've been through many cycles before.
(25:59):
We talk about the black swan andthe gray swan events, and we can
look at a list of all the blackswan events and say, "You know what?
They happened. They were horriblewhen you were in the middle of it."
But as a leader, if you can help toexplain to your folks, "We're going to get
through this, and how do we make sure thatwe get through in the best way possible,
that protects us as an organization,that allows us to continue to serve our
(26:22):
customers," and come out at the otherend with a plan in place for how we're
then going to respond to these marketchanges or whatever it is that came at us.
Steve Odland (26:32):
Wow.
Great words of wisdom.
Diana Scott, thanks forbeing with us today.
Diana Scott (26:37):
My pleasure.
Steve Odland (26:39):
And thanks to all of you for listening to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm Steve Odland, and this series has beenbrought to you by The Conference Board.
Welcome to C-Suite Perspectives, a signature
series by The Conference Board.
I'm Steve Odland from The ConferenceBoard and the host of this podcast
series, and in today's conversationwe're going to discuss change management.
What is it?
Do we still need it?
When and how.
Joining me today is Diana Scott, thecenter leader of the US Human Capital
(00:21):
Center at The Conference Board.
Diana, welcome.
Diana Scott (00:24):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Steve.
Steve Odland (00:26):
Diana, you've been doing this for a long time.
You were the chief HR officer atGuardian Life, Prologis, John Hancock.
You now run the Human Capital Center.
And you can't pick up a newspaper orwatch television without just hearing
about all the change that's happening.
It's happening in our world,it's happening in the country,
(00:48):
it's happening in your companies.
But change managementis something different.
It's a reaction to change, and it'sa proactive means that companies use.
Talk about what it isand why it's important.
Diana Scott (01:04):
Thank you, and thank you for having me.
Change management is a very structuredapproach, actually, to change all around
us, and it's a structured approach thathelps to guide individuals and teams
and organizations from the currentstate to the desired future state.
And I think the thing that, really, peopleneed to focus on when they're thinking
(01:29):
about how to manage change throughan organization is the people impact.
And so a structured change managementprogram or approach really focuses
on, "How does change impact people?"and "How can you help to guide people
through that process in a very structuredway?" so that you can come out at the
end with people embracing the changeand excited about the future that
(01:54):
change holds for them individually,as well as their organization.
Steve Odland (01:59):
Yeah.
Now change is weird.
Some of it is deliberate.
And everybody likes change as longas it happens to somebody else.
They don't, human beings don't liketo change on their own cause they
like the ritual of their daily life.
But change is something thatcompanies do, people do deliberately.
And then there's also change that sortof comes at you that you don't control.
Diana Scott (02:20):
That's a very important point, as well.
The part that we don't control isactually the part that is usually the
most disruptive and upsetting to people.
Cause, as you said, wedon't really like change.
We can say we like change.
We sometimes like the outcome of change.
But people going through the changeprocess rarely enjoy the process
(02:43):
because they like the way, theylike the predictability and the
certainty of their current lives.
And anytime you inject something newand different, they've got to think
about, "How does this affect me?
How does this affect my future?
How does this affect my organization?
And what am I going to need to doto be successful in this new world
order, whatever that might be?"
Steve Odland (03:05):
And so when you're talking about change management, it is about
both how do you react to what's comingat you and how do you deal with that?
But then also, how do you affectchange so that there's a proactive and
reactive aspect to change management?
Diana Scott (03:21):
Absolutely.
And I think, to the point thatyou made earlier, there are things
that we do and decisions we make asleaders of companies to change the
way we do business, to change themarket, to change the technology
platforms we work with, to change theorganizational structure, whatever.
There's a lot of change that happensand we as leaders control that.
(03:44):
There's also a lot of change thathappens external to an organization
that has to do with marketdynamics, geopolitical changes.
We're in the middle of a lot ofchange right now that most of us
have absolutely no control over,and yet, as leaders, we need to
guide our organizations through it.
And we need to get our people tounderstand what they can control,
(04:07):
what they can't control, and howthey can help themselves and the
organization navigate through this.
Steve Odland (04:14):
Now, this term change management's been around a long time.
I remember hearing it a few decadesago, and it was a strange word that
came about, and then it faded away.
Talk about the history of, theconcept of change management.
Diana Scott (04:30):
Change management was very popular sort of at the end of the last
century, the 20th century, so it ismore than 20 years, and became a real
discipline, because I think people realizethat if you can move an organization
through a change process in a moresystematic way, you're going to have
(04:51):
more successful outcomes at the end.
But I think the fact that you don't hearabout it as much doesn't mean that it's
not necessary or that it's not happening.
There's so many things thatare driving the need for change
management as companies becomemore global, as technology changes.
(05:11):
Rapid-fire changes impact how we need toadapt and be resilient and manage through
those so that we can be successful.
So the need for change is probablymore prevalent than it ever was.
I think the term has been somewhatembedded into just the overall process
of how people think about introducingnew systems, new markets, new
(05:35):
approaches within their organizations.
So perhaps it's become more part ofhow we talk about our culture and how
we drive organizational and marketchanges through the organization.
But it's there, and it's necessary.
Steve Odland (05:49):
Yeah.
And your point is, it's evenmore necessary than ever before.
So this is why we're talking about it,because you don't hear people deliberately
discussing how to manage or affectchange in the way that they used to.
And it's time that we reallyresurrect this whole process and
(06:09):
make sure that future generationsare trained on how to do it because
change will never stop happening.
Diana Scott (06:16):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Everything seems to beaccelerating these days.
And it's coming at organizations and theirpeople from so many different directions.
So it's not a mono approach to things.
You really have to be able to adapt toelements that are changing all around you,
(06:37):
and figure out how to systemically bringthem together, and figure out what you
can control and what you can't control.
And do some scenario planning around"what ifs." What if it works this way?
Goes left or goes right?
And all the different elementsare not always predictable.
So that adaptability and that resiliencethat we very often talk about now,
(07:01):
which is so necessary for leaders,right down to front-line managers.
If you're effective at changemanagement, those are the things
that you're going to address now.
Steve Odland (07:11):
So give us some examples of the kinds of situations that
require deliberate change management?
Diana Scott (07:18):
The most obvious one is probably technology change, when you're
implementing a new technology system.
We're all talking about AI rightnow and the impact that's having on
organizations, the opportunity it presentsto perhaps improve productivity, to
make people's jobs more interesting.
(07:38):
But to get people to actuallyadapt to that change requires
the modeling of the behavior, itrequires training, it requires
leaders really setting the example.
And it requires just a moreorganized approach to how you
handle the entire situation.
Steve Odland (08:00):
Yeah.
And it needs to be deliberate.
There needs to be a plan.
You need to work it out.
There needs to be dates,there needs to be steps.
All of these kinds of thingsthat you don't think about.
You don't hear anybody talking about that.
You just hear AI, AI.
Like Old MacDonald's farm (08:12):
A-I-A-I-O.
It just goes on.
But in order to really carry this througha company in an orchestrated fashion
and make it work and make it be moreproductive, there needs to be training,
there needs to be a deliberate rollout.
Some people love this stuff, pick it up.
Some people don't.
But you need to deal with peopleof all different kinds of styles.
(08:37):
It's also cultural, Diana, there arecertain cultures around the world, if
you're in a global business, that aretrained and prefer to be told what
to do, and leaders need to do that.
Others are more organic.
They say that Americans liketo color outside the lines.
It is not just one way of doing things.
And so change management, whenyou're thinking about effecting a
(08:59):
different process or implementationof new software or practices.
You can't just say, "OK, there's one wayto do things. We're just going to throw
it out there and have people follow it."You really have to, as you said, you have
to be there for people who read and learnthat way, people who hear and learn that
way, people who have to experience things.
(09:20):
And then, it's the repetition.
You have to do it over and overagain to make sure these things
are seeded in an organization.
Diana Scott (09:27):
Exactly.
And I think the fact that we recognizethat people are so different is a strength
that organizations have now today.
Diversity, we see diversity as a strength.
Different approaches,different ways of thinking.
You really want to have a team thatis diverse, but to your point, that
also means that you have to recognizethat one size does not fit all.
(09:47):
And so as you manage change throughan organization, you have to
approach how you do that potentiallydifferently to different types of
audiences, because they're going toembrace change in different ways.
They're going to learn differently.
And that's going to require that youhave a very nuanced approach to how you
manage this through an organization.
(10:09):
And very often in the past, when changehas not been done effectively in an
organization, it probably had to dowith the leadership not recognizing that
you can't just jam it through one way.
It really is importantto bring people on board.
And when you have people's buy-in,and they get excited about it, and
(10:30):
you're able to find champions withinyour organization, that's when
change really works effectively inpushing it through an organization.
Steve Odland (10:39):
So what do you think of as the key steps in
effecting change management?
Diana Scott (10:44):
It doesn't matter what kind of change you're implementing.
It could be technology, it could berestructuring your entire organization,
it could be some sort of processoverhaul, or maybe you're even
trying to change your entire culture.
There you really need to step back firstand say, OK, why are we doing this?
What is the need for thischange, and why are we doing it?
(11:05):
And what are the things that are going towhat are the desired outcomes, and what
are we going to need to do to actuallydrive this through the organization?
So it's stepping back andassessing, for starters.
So, being thoughtful about it.
And then I think you really doneed to just develop a roadmap.
You need to understand (11:22):
What are your goals, what are the timelines
that you're trying to affect?
This doesn't need to takea lot of time, either.
You can do this pretty quickly, but it'simportant to go through these steps.
And then you need to thinkabout your stakeholders.
Who are all the different stakeholders,and what are the differences in
how they might see this change?
Cause in the end, you've got to beable to get a message to them of "Why
(11:45):
are we doing this?" and "How is thisgoing to benefit you or your part of
the organization?" and "What is thechange that's going to be required?"
And make sure that they see themselvesin this change, and they can understand
the rationale, as well as the impactand the outcome that's desired
(12:06):
and how it's going to impact them.
"What's in it for me?" Andnot that we're all inherently
egotistical, but the "What's in itfor me?" Becomes really important.
And then you just have to execute,and you have to execute flawlessly.
You have to say, OK, I made a plan.
Now let's go through and actuallyimplement this change to the organization,
and let's make sure that we're reviewingconstantly so that we're seeing,
(12:29):
is it working the way we thought?
Are there any changes that we need tomake as we go through this process?
And then, in the end,how effective was it?
How do we measure the actualsuccess of this particular change?
Steve Odland (12:43):
We're talking about change management and organizations.
So we're going to take ashort break and be right back.
Welcome back to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm your host, Steve Odland, from TheConference Board, and I'm joined today by
Diana Scott, Center Leader of the US HumanCapital Center at The Conference Board.
Diana, before the break, we weretalking about how to implement the
(13:04):
change, and you talked about needingto have a plan, timetables, specific
steps, dates, and all of that.
But you can't just throw it out there.
You can't just then go do that,and do it once, and it's done.
Because there's this whole thingabout, in order for it to be taken
seriously, anything in an organizationto be taken seriously, they have
to hear it in multiple ways andrepetitively, over and over again.
(13:27):
So there needs to be a lotof different ways to do this.
As I've watched you implement change.
You do it in group settings, youdo it one-on-one, you write it into
objectives, you do brown-bag lunchesto talk about it, you have people
discuss their own experiences.
Talk about all of these differentmechanisms that you've found successful.
Diana Scott (13:51):
So probably the most important thing is transparency.
We talk a lot about transparency and how,if you're transparent and very authentic
about why we're doing this, the need forit, and leaders are really open about
it, you can pretty much get anybodyon board, even if it's not going to be
(14:12):
entirely positive for that individual.
Transparency is probablythe most important thing.
And then I think it's beginningyour communication and involving
employees early on, which isalso a degree of transparency.
So they feel like thiswasn't just thrown at them.
So they begin to understand and areable to absorb the change that's
coming, understand the impactit's going to have on them, and
(14:34):
get excited about the positives.
Cause change is inherently, you makethese changes for positive outcomes.
So if you can help them understand bygetting them involved early where they
feel like it's not happening to them, butthey actually are involved and engaged and
have a little bit of say in the processand that they're being listened to.
(14:54):
I think if you do those well, andthen you provide what we talked
about earlier—support, training youwant to make sure that you give them
all the tools that they need to besuccessful in adapting to the change.
Whether it means they need to learnnew skills, they need to understand
a new organizational structure,they need to understand a new
(15:15):
market, they need to use new toolsand technology, their job is done.
Whatever it is, you're giving them supportand training, and you're showing them
that you have empathy for the fact thatthey are having to go through this change.
But that kind of supportis really important.
And then again, back to transparency.
I think as issues arise along theway, we have to be listening really
(15:39):
carefully to our employees and all thestakeholders and say, "What are your
concerns?" And address them quicklyso that they can feel heard again.
Steve Odland (15:50):
Yeah.
Now, one of the tools that companieshave found useful in implementing change
is the RACI tool, RACI, as an acronym.
Just if you could, describe thetool, what it is, what each of the
letters stand for, and why it's useful.
Diana Scott (16:07):
So RACI is a very good framework for ensuring that the roles
and your responsibilities are very clearin any kind of implementation or in any
kind of structure where work is gettingdone across a number of different teams.
So the R stands for "responsible." Thoseare the people that are going to be held
(16:30):
responsible for getting the work done.
"Accountability" is theA. Who is accountable?
Typically, those are folks higherup in the organization who are
providing the vision and making surethat things are properly resourced.
C is "consulted," meaning you're goingto be consulted for your expertise.
(16:50):
But that's it.
You're not going to be responsible.
It will be taken into accountand incorporated, but you
shouldn't expect that you'regoing to be the decision-maker.
So I think that's important, as well.
And then the I stands for "informed,"where you're going to be informed
because you're potentiallyimpacted, but you're really not held
accountable or responsible for it.
(17:10):
But you also need to understand that otherexperts are perhaps driving the process.
So you need to be informed andfigure out how this impacts
you and your own organization.
Steve Odland (17:20):
So the tool is really a grid.
It's an outline of each of thesteps and then who is accountable,
who's responsible, who should beconsulted, and who should be informed.
And this is a way to make sure that youeffect change in the communication and
the involvement in an appropriate way.
But then, when you think about it,who should have the accountability
or the A for change management?
Diana Scott (17:42):
It typically has to be the leadership, because they're the ones that
are going to make sure that strategically,this is important, it's happening.
They make sure that theeffort is resourced properly.
They're the ones that are probablydirecting the change because
it is important to the businessoutcomes and the overall business
strategy of the organization.
(18:03):
The leadership is going to beresponsible for whoever is leading
that particular area of change.
Steve Odland (18:09):
Yeah.
And then who should be responsible?
Diana Scott (18:11):
I think that really is going to lie in the
people who are change managers.
But it's the management, it's moreof the frontline management and the
team of individuals—sometimes itis within HR—that is helping guide
that change to the organization,working with the managers to ensure
that the communication is happening,that the training is properly set up.
(18:36):
So depending on which aspect of thechange you're talking about, it could
shift slightly, but it's typically thosethat are charged with putting together
an effective change management approach.
Steve Odland (18:49):
And so as you think about all the various areas of an
organization or a company, which onesshould use change management as a process?
Diana Scott (19:02):
Probably all of them.
Just think about it.
Certainly, if you're in HR, HR is goingto typically provide a lot of support
for change across the organization.
But if you're dealing with organizationalchange, if you're dealing with
reductions in force, if you're dealingwith policy changes, those are all
going to be required that those bemanaged effectively as they roll out
(19:25):
through an organization, and HR isgoing to have to use this approach.
If you think about people who are inoperations, if you're changing a process
or maybe adopting new approaches to yoursupply chain, whatever, that's going to
require change through the organization.
If you're changing a technology platform,that's a huge lift across an organization.
(19:47):
That requires a very distant, disciplined,systematic approach to change management.
So I guess my answer is everywhere.
It really needs to be thought througheverywhere in an organization.
Steve Odland (19:59):
Yeah.
Any place that is trying to affectany change at all—and some of that
comes from HR—but when it doesn'tcome from HR, HR can actually play an
important role to help the other groups.
Diana Scott (20:11):
Absolutely.
We always say that change management isreally about helping people embrace,
understand, and get on board aroundchanges that are happening around
them and within their organization.
And the HR organization is really chargedwith understanding the people aspects.
(20:35):
Not that they are responsible solelyfor those cause, frankly, we all are
responsible for, all managers really needto feel responsible for their people.
But I think the fact that we havethat discipline and understanding of
psychologically, what drives peopleto embrace change or resist change,
and how can you reduce some of thatresistance and help people get on board?
(20:58):
I think HR can be really effectivein driving a lot of the different
aspects of change management.
Steve Odland (21:04):
Yeah, and this is where, if you're a business leader, you're
running a business unit or whatever,you really need to tap into your HR
colleagues to help you with this.
It's communication.
It's process, it's all of these things.
You can't just throw somethingout there and expect it to take.
You really have to manage itvery directly and deliberately.
(21:24):
And this is a role that I think HRprofessionals really are best at.
Diana Scott (21:31):
Yes.
One of probably the most important thingsthat an HR organization can do, working
with a manager who's implementing somemajor change in their organization, is
to help the manager assess how readythe organization is for this change.
Because again, if you can predict wherethe pockets of resistance are going to
(21:54):
come, what the major aspects of the changeare, and how they're going to impact
individuals within the organization.
How is it going to change the structure?
How is it going to change?
What skills are necessary?
And do we have those skills today?
Where are those going to come from?
How effective are we at communication,and how do we need to support
(22:15):
the communication process?
Are the frontline managers ready for thisand do they have the skills necessary?
That assessment of changereadiness is such an important
part of that upfront step.
And the HR organization typicallyis best equipped to help
managers think through that.
Steve Odland (22:35):
So that's the upfront stuff.
And then you have the deliberate planthat's being implemented, but there's
also a need then to track that asyou're going to see how it's going.
And this, too, is a very importantplace for HR executives to intervene.
Diana Scott (22:55):
Absolutely.
And I think how youmeasure it is important.
You have to see, is it sticking?
Are the changes that we madehaving the predicted outcome?
Are we improving productivity?
Have our turnover rates gone up or down?
So you have to get a senseof, is this change accepted
(23:18):
and are people more productive?
Are they more engaged?
Are they deliveringbetter business outcomes?
Whatever the intent of the change wasin the first place, whether it was a
technology change or an operationalchange or a market shift, you need
to understand what those outcomes are.
And I think that's the importantpart, cause you need to then
(23:39):
course-correct along the way.
If things are not going as youpredicted, you need to understand why.
And I think the HR organizationcan certainly help with a lot
of that because we look atturnover, we look at engagement.
We are trying to get a better sense of,overall sentiment and other factors that
really drive your employment brand andyour culture, your ability to attract
(24:04):
the best for talent and retain it.
Steve Odland (24:06):
Yeah.
And yeah, everything changes once youstart implementing, and you've got to be
able to pivot, and this is why measuringis important and tracking is important.
We talked at the beginning about changethat you effect in your organization,
and then you talked about dealingwith change that comes at you.
We're in a situation now, we're in a worldwhere change is coming at us very quickly.
(24:30):
And we don't think about change managementas something that we deal with about
change that comes at us, but it's reallyimportant that HR professionals think
about what's coming at the organizationfrom the environment, as you said, the
political environment, policy environment,geopolitical stuff, and to help people
deal with this changing environment.
Talk about that.
Diana Scott (24:51):
In those scenarios, probably the most important
thing, again, is transparency andcommunication and listening so that
you understand the anxiety thatexists in your own organization.
And then being very clear andtransparent—and this is where
leaders really need to stepup and prove their mettle.
(25:12):
Being able to communicate, calm thewaters, talk about in a very transparent
way how whatever is coming at us isimpacting our organization and then
what we're going to do about it.
And also settle people down so thatthey can remain focused on, "OK, I don't
have any control over this, but what arethe things that we do have control over
(25:34):
that are going to allow us to settle ourorganization, make sure that we're doing
everything we can to secure the revenueand meet our plans as we can?" But make
sure that, even if we can't do all ofthat, what's the path forward then?
And when we come out at the otherend—cause I think, again, reminding people
that the world works in cycles, andwe've been through many cycles before.
(25:59):
We talk about the black swan andthe gray swan events, and we can
look at a list of all the blackswan events and say, "You know what?
They happened. They were horriblewhen you were in the middle of it."
But as a leader, if you can help toexplain to your folks, "We're going to get
through this, and how do we make sure thatwe get through in the best way possible,
that protects us as an organization,that allows us to continue to serve our
(26:22):
customers," and come out at the otherend with a plan in place for how we're
then going to respond to these marketchanges or whatever it is that came at us.
Steve Odland (26:32):
Wow.
Great words of wisdom.
Diana Scott, thanks forbeing with us today.
Diana Scott (26:37):
My pleasure.
Steve Odland (26:39):
And thanks to all of you for listening to C-Suite Perspectives.
I'm Steve Odland, and this series has beenbrought to you by The Conference Board.
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