Step into the world of Café W.O.W. with host John Dodds as he welcomes jazz composer, pianist, and paranormal investigator Eric Mintel for an unforgettable conversation.
From captivating audiences at the White House to tracking down the mysterious Beast of Bray Road, Eric's journey weaves together the soulful strains of jazz with the eerie allure of the supernatural.
From captivating audiences at the White House to tracking down the mysterious Beast of Bray Road, Eric's journey weaves together the soulful strains of jazz with the eerie allure of the supernatural.
In this episode, explore how this self-taught virtuoso, mentored by Dave Brubeck's spirit, transformed a garage jam session into the renowned Eric Mintel Quartet while nurturing a deep fascination with the paranormal through Bucks County Paranormal Investigations.
You'll hear personal stories of UFO sightings, Bigfoot encounters, and ghostly mists alongside Eric's reflections on jazz's healing essence and the struggles of today's musicians in a shifting industry.
For aspiring jazz artists, Eric shares three invaluable tips that stand out: First, he emphasizes the importance of mastering the history of jazz—knowing its roots and current landscape to push the genre forward. Second, he urges musicians to become so proficient on their instrument that creativity flows effortlessly, a skill honed over years of dedication. Finally, he encourages having fun with the music, keeping the joy and spontaneity alive to connect with audiences authentically.
These insights, born from decades of experience, offer a roadmap for navigating the challenges and rewards of a jazz career. Whether you're drawn to jazz's improvisational magic, intrigued by paranormal mysteries, or seeking inspiration from a life lived boldly, this episode delivers.
Find out where to watch Eric's eerie documentaries and catch his next gig!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Café WOW. I'm John Dodds, your host, barista and bartender.
WOW represents the words of wisdom that my guests share, and my aim is to unearth the uniqueness of both my guests and the crafts they practice.
My guest today is jazz composer and pianist Eric Mintel. Eric has played the piano all his life.
(00:22):
Career highlights include two performances by invitation at the White House, several concerts at the Kennedy Center and a special concert at the United Nations.
His music is regularly played on XM and Sirius Radio. Jazz legend Dave Brubeck has said, "As long as the music attracts dedicated young musicians like Eric Mintel, jazz will continue to thrive and progress as a voice of freedom."
(00:46):
Today we're going to unearth the uniqueness of Eric Mintel, his life of jazz and his extraordinary interest in the extraordinary, or should I say, paranormal.
So I'm in Café WOW and we're waiting for Eric Mintel to join us. Oh, and here he is, Eric. Eric, how are you?
(01:08):
Hey John, how are you man?
Come and sit down. What would you fancy? A drink, a little something naughty or what do you fancy?
I think I'll do a little coffee. How about that? It's a great place for a café to have coffee. We've got plenty of that. We'll get you some coffee sorted out.
So we're going to talk about all manner of things with you. You're all manner of things to life. You're a band leader, you're a composer, you're a ghostbuster.
(01:36):
You're doing it all so we're going to find out, we're going to unearth your uniqueness. And you're a Pennsylvania boy.
Actually, no. I was born in New Jersey. Oh, yeah. I was born in Plainfield, New Jersey. Oh, interesting. In 1967. Oh my gosh, a flower power time.
(01:58):
Yeah, and then we moved to Pennsylvania actually in Upper Bucks County in, I think it was 1970 up to a really beautiful area called Upper Black Eddy.
Upper Black Eddy sounds lovely. And so what was your childhood like in Upper Black Eddy?
Oh man, I had a great childhood up there. I'm an only child, so I don't have any brothers or sisters. But I came from an environment that always had good music playing in the house.
(02:32):
Who was playing it?
My dad was mainly playing it. And back in the 70s, of course, I always heard a lot of Elton John, David Bowie, all kinds of rock and roll.
Fine choice.
But at the same time, I would hear a lot of classical music, Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, and I would also hear a lot of jazz.
(02:58):
And one of the things that people may or may not know is my mother's brother, Don Saccone, was a member of Frankie Valley in the four seasons.
Really?
He was their bass player from about 1972 to about 1982. And he's heard on all those hits like, "Oh, what a night." And "Who loves you."
(03:23):
He was an arranger for Frankie Valley, and he played bass and sang. So yeah, he was my uncle Don. But we lost him, unfortunately, in 2016.
But what a career he had.
Absolutely.
So there was that side of the family, always there was music there. There was always music being played. And I remember getting together with him, he would show me some of these cool things.
(03:45):
And I would hear all these great Dave Brubeck things that he was playing, take five, and I remember at a very, very early age.
But yeah, one of the things was that we may not have had much, but I did have a piano in the house.
(04:06):
And although it was somewhat in tune half the time, my dad would tune it every so often. But it was great to be able to get on there and create these melodies, and figure things out that I didn't know at the time was jazz.
Well, that's interesting, because a lot of people have pianos in the house, and they have piano teachers, and they're forced to sit down a couple of times a week and learn the piano.
(04:32):
And then it's a chore. It seemed to be something natural for you.
It was. And yeah, you mentioned some people have pianos in their house just for furniture, which killed me.
But yeah, no, it was really great to have that there, because when I did finally discover jazz in 1982 when I was 14, it was instrumental, because I was able to go right from those recordings I heard from Dave Brubeck.
(05:01):
And go right to the piano and try to figure those out. I didn't have a keyboard or anything at the time, so we had a piano.
And that was really incredible. But even before that, though, my parents could always find me sitting at the piano trying to make up my own melodies at like four or five years old.
And I remember my friends would come over and we would, I would play like the cartoon show themes on the piano for them, and they were just blown away by that.
(05:28):
So it was just that's been a part of my life, my whole life.
So I wonder whether that's just intrinsic in you, or whether it's the only child, or whether it's just an eight?
It's probably, I think it's probably like an only child thing, because I mean, I really had to go and have my, I had to go into that creative aspect.
You know, my mother was working all the time. She's a first grade school teacher.
(05:52):
So she was working and my father wasn't, he was working at the time in the early 70s, but wasn't there most of the time.
So I was pretty much a latchkey kid. You know, and I had him really just create my own environment, so to speak.
Well, you seem to have done it very well. I was reading the fact that there's your piano teacher trying to teach you the basics, and there's you saying, hey, don't worry about that.
(06:18):
I've got a brew packet in here.
I kept coming to the lessons playing take five and blue rondo. He's trying to teach me all these other things.
And I said, oh, look what I learned this week.
Oh, you must have loved you.
He was, he was great. And I still, I just, I actually just saw him a couple of weeks ago. He works.
And it was, it was a shame because early on, like he had tunnel vision, which was, he was literally had to be like so close to the page to see the music.
(06:47):
And, but he was a great teacher and he gave me the basics, you know, really just gave me the basics.
And, but I think he's completely blind now.
But because he had a seeing eye dog that I saw with him.
But I went up to him and his name is Alan Shelley.
And he remembered me. He's like, oh my God, how are you?
So, and I always say that I was, you know, say that, you know, having a good teacher like that early on is so important for, for any student or anybody that's, you know, because,
(07:16):
you know, you've all heard those stories where they've gotten piano teachers that don't have the patience to do anything.
And then, you know, then it's a bad experience for them.
I just teach this generally, isn't it? I mean, if some of you are interested in and you have a teacher that's trying to slap you down or demotivate you, it can be a huge thing.
Oh yeah. I mean, in high school, I mean, the prime example of that was I was in high school and in, I think, ninth, tenth grade, I'm playing in the music class.
(07:45):
Blue Rondo, take five, all the obscure, grubeck things.
And the teacher just went over his head. You know, he didn't give me the time of day.
Didn't give me any kind of encouragement.
Didn't give me any kind of direction. So it was tough.
Although the other piano teacher that was in that, in that school, he's kind of, he just actually was at our concert at the Sellersville Theater.
(08:09):
He's come to see us several times and is just blown away by what we're doing.
And I think that I think my piano teacher actually did come to a gig a number of years ago and he was like, he was impressed too.
But, you know, it's like, I was like, I tried to tell you, you know.
Yeah. Well, that's lovely. And because a lot of times a lot of kids try and do that and then they just lose it along the way.
(08:33):
And so I think the fact that you were able to do that and show the vision and, hey, by the way, I was at the White House as well.
Yeah. I mean, all of these things, John, is just like things that are leading you to something greater.
You know, that's how I look at it.
Did you think about that at the time? Did you, did you feel that this was something great or was it just something you enjoy doing?
(08:56):
I love doing it. You know, and the thing is I love the music, but the main thing was Dave Brubeck.
I really love Dave because of his work ethic, straight ahead family man, you know, just really all the stuff that he did for civil rights and just everything that, you know, he was about.
His values.
That was something that it was a great mentor to have for me because let's face it, nowadays, I mean, I was so lucky to have that.
(09:23):
But the kids nowadays don't have any mentors really to look up to.
I mean, you get these sports guys that are doing all these things, but not, you know, you need some of the that's really that vision and that's doing something great.
And that's why I think I latched on to Dave's music and Dave himself because I wanted, I wanted that. I wanted a life like that.
(09:44):
Right.
And I think that some somewhat of what I wanted to do was kind of like, I think even Dave said, he's like, you know, you play my music better than I play it.
You know, and that was it was really cool. I said, it's just the way we're, it's a tribute, but yet we're doing our own thing with it, you know.
And also I think that, you know, if you have a passion for it, you're going to get immersed yourself more into the individual than the individual even analyzes themselves, you know.
(10:12):
Yeah. And I tend to do that too. I try to, you know, I look at like if I'm interested or if I'm if I'm inspired by somebody who's in the arts or music,
I always want to find out what's their background. What was the, what was their life like, you know, two people that are, you would probably think this is completely opposite, but which it is, two of my greatest mentors, Dave Brubeck and Bruce Lee.
(10:37):
Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee because these guys, if you look, if you go, if you go back far enough, and especially with Brubeck too, what he had to go through in order to play his music.
You know, he wasn't just famous overnight because it take five. He was working that 20 years before, 25 years before, right after he got out of the military, you know.
(11:01):
So that quartet started in like 1950, 49, 48, somewhere around there. And then Paul Desmond came into it in 51. And then finally they made it with that, with take five.
And that didn't happen until 1963. And here Dave was 43 years old already.
That's quite amazing actually.
So overnight success after 25 years.
(11:24):
Exactly, exactly. So, you know, and that's unfortunate, but that's, but that's real talent there. You know, it's nothing was manufactured, so to speak, you know, like you have today where you can, you know, have one hit wonders and that's it.
And even with Bruce Lee, same thing, he just, you know, was laser focused on what he wanted and it, he made it happen. Unfortunately, he passed, but, you know, at an early age, but I think he had usurped all of his energy to get to that point.
(11:55):
And, you know, it was, but he's, he's immortal now. Everybody knows who that is.
Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and again, it's that discipline, isn't it? It's about that single-minded focus. And that's the, and that's the trouble with, with anything creative. If you, if you don't give it your all, there's always going to be someone around that does.
(12:16):
Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I think too, you, you, there's always these formulas that people want to try to try to do.
And, you know, and I'm, I'm one of those that, you know, we started out with my group. I started this group in the Eric and Tell Quartet in 1993.
And at first we started doing the college circuit because, again, going back to the Dave Grubeck idea, Dave started doing college campuses, you know, when he started.
(12:44):
So we started doing the college campuses. We started doing tributes to Dave Grubeck, but we were always doing a lot of my music too.
And I had a lot of other influences. A lot of people think I just elicited Dave Grubeck, but I elicited Oscar Peterson, Chick Korea, Bill Evans, Oscar P, Art Tatum, all the older guys do Wellington.
So all of those influences were there as well. And so, you know, then, and then it gradually started going to where we started doing more and more of my own music.
(13:13):
And, and then that led to Dave himself saying to Mary and McPartland, Hey, I have a guy here, Eric Mintel, you might want to have him on your show.
And then I got a call from Marion in 2004. And she said, Would you like to be a guest on my show on piano jazz?
(13:34):
So I was. And it was amazing just to be able to talk with her, be with her and play duos with her on that iconic program.
And did that, before I explore that, going back to how you started there at Mintel Court, how did that happen? Were you were you in college or how did it all happen?
No, I, you know, and probably people cringe when I hear when they hear this, but no, I'm pretty much self taught. I again, going back to the piano teacher coming to the lessons playing all this obscure music, he said, Look, I really can't, you know, teach you anymore.
(14:11):
You're going to have to go your own way. So that's pretty much what I've done. Of course, you know, the musicians that I've had in my group over the years have been some of the greatest teachers too.
You know, so that's where my classroom was, you know, in the on the bandstand. And it was, it was great to play with some great musicians, some great musicians and some we couldn't get along with.
(14:33):
But, you know, music was always, was always good was first and foremost, some people I got off the bandstand and, you know, we were complete strangers.
But that's just that's human nature. But now the group that I've got now we've been together for about 20 some odd years, over 20 years.
I'm Dave Antonow and I've played 22 years together. It's kind of like, it's not only a band of brothers, but it's like we kind of like are reading our, our mind or reading each other's minds.
(15:02):
But initially, yeah, I started doing the tributes to Dave Grubeck, and that was way back in 1993. And we would do with the college circuits all up and down the Eastern Seaboard.
But I started it going back to that. I started it actually. I was playing in my garage on an old beat up upright piano.
And I had a synthesizer with drum sounds next to me. It's setting all the drum beats up for like take five and blue rondo and everything like that, or just a swing rhythm or whatever.
(15:35):
And I was just sitting there playing along with that. And then I just had this idea. Yeah, I would love to do. Why don't we do a trip?
Why don't I do a tribute to Dave Brubeck, try to find musicians that we could do this.
And I went to a jam session in Doylestown, Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and found some people that were like-minded, great musicians, and we hit it off.
(15:58):
And I remember every Saturday, I'd have to go because they were from the University of the Arts in Philadelphia.
And I would go down every Saturday morning to go down and rehearse all these tunes with them.
And then our first concert was in 1993 at Delaware Valley College in Doylestown.
And we had a-you know, I promoted it, I publicized it, did a newspaper story, and we had about three or four hundred people came out, that first concert.
(16:26):
Got a standing ovation, and I said, "This is it. This is it."
So did you ever think, "Well, if this isn't going to work, I'll do this?"
I'm thinking about that now.
Too late. Too late.
No, right, exactly. Oh my God.
Yeah, oh yeah, there's been, believe me, John, there's been some dark days, man.
(16:47):
You know, when things aren't working out right and just financially things are just so terrible and just in dire streets.
I just think to myself, "Man, man, what did I get myself into here?"
It's interesting.
There's a band I follow called Acoustic Alchemy, and their keyboard by here has just announced that he's giving it up and he's going to be a roofer.
(17:14):
And it's smart, man.
Well, that's right.
And he's like, "Goodness, man, he's one of these outstanding keyboard players."
But I think that COVID and trying to, you know, manage his life, he decided he had to do that.
And I would imagine it's probably a decision. It's tough for musicians. It's tough for anyone creative.
Your all-out hope is that tomorrow and the next day is going to bring you the gig that balances it all out.
(17:39):
Yeah, and that's sad to hear that too.
But I mean, but I'm not surprised though, because, you know, we talked, we kind of briefly talked about this earlier that, you know, unfortunately, we're in a society right now when it comes to jazz,
but jazz is probably in the worst state it's ever been as far as, you know, the music goes and the musicians that are not getting the proper, the really good musicians that are not getting the proper accolades or respect.
(18:10):
But there's a lot of...
You know, I just think because there's so many people that are out there that they are "think they're jazz musicians" and they want to play because they've got to play.
And they're doing a disservice by going in and playing for free, number one, which is not always not good.
Whenever we do clinics at schools, I always say to the kids, "Never play for free, you know?"
(18:37):
Look, I'm guilty of it too. In the early part of my career, I had to play a few free gigs to get that, you know, exposure, but I wouldn't continue that.
And my whole goal now has been to always get a better wage for us and for the musicians, for musicians in general, because, you know, people are going to play for $100.
(18:58):
They've been playing for $100 a guy for 50 years and enough is enough.
I mean, you can't have a... And no wonder these guys are dropping out because you can't live on that.
I mean, it's... I look at it this way too, John. We're a service-oriented business.
You know, musicians are a service... good musicians. I want to say that again.
I want to reiterate that good musicians that are entertaining people.
(19:23):
And I'm talking jazz here too. We're a service-oriented business and we're providing that service to customers or a concert hall or whatever, and should be paid accordingly.
Now, when we're doing that, the concert hall situation is a different situation, of course, because, you know, when you're getting to that level, you can pretty much, you know, ask for what you want at that point.
(19:49):
But a lot of these people... and I'm not going to name names, but I see a lot of these people that are quote-unquote being said that, "Oh, he's the greatest drummer in this area," or, "He's the greatest singer in this area."
We beg to differ because it's like, you know, I'm not one to ever put musicians down, but when it comes to interfering with making a living and being a professional, that's when you have to really put your foot down.
(20:17):
And I think what COVID has done is make us realize how much we value connection and how much we value music, and the combination of going to watch music and seeing wonderful musicians play, whatever genre it is, it just means so much to so many people.
(20:39):
And it is really beholden on the people that go to these concerts to pay the money for it, because I don't think people realize how much musicians have suffered over the COVID crisis.
There hasn't been gigs. People have tried to do different things online or whatever, but it's been very tough. It's tough from the isolation point of view and it's tough from a money point of view.
(21:03):
Totally. I mean, yeah, totally. I totally agree with that.
And the fact is, I know there's several musicians that are phenomenal, phenomenal musicians, I mean, that are just award-winning keyboard players, drummers, and they're not working.
You know, they're not working because they're not getting called. They're not getting called because this person went in and underbid them for that particular job,
(21:29):
which is, and they're not even a musician, to be honest with you, but that's one thing that we've really got to put a handle on.
We have this conversation a lot in business too about how a company's been, and there was a very interesting book I've been reading about pitching for business,
(21:51):
and the kind of 10 commandments of what you should do and what you shouldn't do, and creators in general, whether it's in business, whether you're an agency or whatever,
you tend to almost give away your crown jewels with the pitch because you believe that's the way of getting your business.
And of course, the client will sit there and take all of that and then shop it around the place.
(22:13):
And that may be the way to buy pipe, but it isn't the way to buy creativity.
But I do believe that it is up to the musicians too to try and create a uniqueness for themselves so that people are aware of that.
And part of it, of course, is generating interest online and generating a buzz about themselves.
(22:35):
I don't think it's good enough these days just to be a great musician.
I think you've unfortunately got to be online and you do a great job in being out and about and being online,
because I think that makes a difference. It keeps you front of mind.
I couldn't agree more. I had gotten some backlash when I said one time that musicians are their own worst enemy,
(22:58):
and I didn't mean that anything bad by that.
I meant in the fact that they are, as far as business is concerned, blowing our own horn, so to speak.
You've got to let people know what you're doing and promote what you're doing and how important it is to what you're doing to the community.
And I think that's one of the things I have done just because, I guess, me and myself, I've always been like a salesman.
(23:26):
So sales, I mean, we're always selling ourselves.
I don't care who it is, musicians or whoever, we're always selling ourselves.
If you're having a conversation with someone, you're always improvising too.
So we're always selling ourselves, selling our ideas, selling ourselves to other people.
So that's one thing that what you just said is important really to get the word out there.
(23:52):
And now we've got so many different avenues of doing that where we didn't have this maybe 15 years ago.
And it's time consuming, and for a lot of musicians, that's difficult because they're introverts, and it's a difficult thing to do, but it's so essential.
Let me take you back to a little bit back to how when you started the quartet, it grew, and you then felt, hey, I can make a career out of this, and I can have some fun with this.
(24:17):
And how did it develop?
It just developed where after that first concert, we had one gig.
That was one gig for that year.
And then of course, it developed with me getting on the phone and getting on the phone to venues, concert halls, churches, libraries, you name it, elementary schools, high schools, colleges, that would want to have us do a concert.
(24:45):
And if we went into colleges and universities, I would do like workshops and things like that.
So it just developed from there.
It developed from a real grassroots effort on my part.
I didn't have any help on this as far as booking goes.
I've had some people over the years, a handful of people have tried to help me, but haven't gotten me any work.
(25:06):
And because it's a difficult thing, it's very hard to book music as anyone, any booker will tell you, I'm sure.
But I just said, look, I got to eat.
I got to survive here.
I got a family.
At that time, I had a family, I had a wife and daughter to support.
And now my daughter's grown up.
(25:27):
Now she's in college.
But yeah, those things, it just developed.
And then the next year, we had like three gigs.
The next year after that, we had 10 gigs.
So it was exponential growth as the years went on.
It developed in the fact that we not only were doing Brubeck, but we started doing all kinds of jazz standards we did.
And I would rework some of those jazz standards because I felt like everybody's playing them the same way.
(25:52):
I wanted to change it up a little bit and have some different arrangements of those tunes.
And to make it interesting and not boring, you know.
And then so it just kept going from there. And just to this day, it has just been a constant evolution.
And even today, when I bring an original tune to the guys, it'll be one way when I first bring it to them.
(26:18):
But as we play it, it becomes this like an appealing of an onion.
It's becoming this organic thing where it changes and then it becomes it evolves and it becomes its own entity.
Because of each one of these guys special gifts that they put into it.
Great. We're going to come back in just a moment to understand how you unpeel the onion and also talk about the presidential gigs that you did on Cafe WOW.
(26:49):
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(27:13):
Back with Eric Mintel. Eric, tell me a little bit about peeling or unpeeling the onion.
I'm fascinated by how a tune happens for you.
And once you have it in your head and you think you got something, how do you take it to the band and what do they do with it?
Well, as we all know, when you peel an onion, you cry. You have a lot of tears.
(27:38):
And for me, trying to write a tune, it's absolutely impossible sometimes for me to get that down on paper.
I'll have it in my head. So if anybody can sympathize with this, I have a lot of melodies all the time.
Music's going through my head constantly. So in that respect, what I'll do is I will record it.
(27:59):
Thank God we have these things called "Enranger Goes" and his musicianship is also just otherworldly.
But I would give Nelson a... Actually, I would actually call Nelson on the phone and I would play a melody over the piano and say,
"Nelson, how does this go?" And he would write it out on the other line, you know?
So early on we were doing tunes like that and then we'd of course get together on the gigs sometimes before the gig, right before the gig,
(28:26):
and write out the melody and then play it that night. And I could do that with these guys. You can't do that with everybody.
I could do that with these guys because the level of musicianship is incredible, but the level of being comfortable with each other is incredible as well.
And we all know each other's style and I know what these guys are going to do with the tune.
(28:51):
And Dave Moan on drums, I know instinctively what he's going to do, if it's a Latin influenced kind of piece,
he's going to give me the right kind of Latin rhythm. Jack Hedgie on bass, he'll give me a great bass line,
or if it's a swing line, he'll give me a great, you know, just the meat and potatoes of everything.
(29:12):
And same thing with Dave Antonov, when Dave and Jack switch on and off sometimes in the group.
And Dave had studied with Michael Moore, who was actually Dave Brubeck's bass player in the years up to Dave's passing.
And so, you know, I've been very, very fortunate to have very, very talented guys in the group that you can't really say that a lot with a lot of bands.
(29:36):
And we listen, this band has incredible ears and listening is so key.
So what I'll do is I'll bring that chart to the band and say, "Look, you know, this is what it is."
And we'll do like one run-through.
I think people would be shocked if you didn't understand jazz or even music, actually, that if you're in business
(30:00):
and you're saying, "Look, we have a strategy here, we're going to do one quick run-through and then the whole of the organization is going to go off and do it."
And by the way, you're all going to come back at the end of the year and you're all going to sound exactly the same.
Exactly. That's a wonderful thing if that could happen, right?
But isn't jazz the beautiful that way? It's almost inconceivable that you could actually create a melody in your head, take it to a gig and create it.
(30:27):
Well, you witnessed it, John. You witnessed it firsthand the night we were at Symphony Hall.
There was a tune we'd never played before and we played it that night and it came off exactly the way I wanted it to come off,
that we all wanted it to come off because I was in that zone where, "Look, we're going for it.
Everybody knows what they're doing here. Let's create, let's let this have a life to it."
(30:52):
And that's kind of what it is. It's like these tunes are like your baby and then you play them and then they become their own,
they become their own thing and they have their own life.
And I've been very fortunate, yeah, that life would be so much better, man,
it would just be like you could just say one thing in business and just be done with it, you know?
And I think what's fascinating about the idea of a melody, when do they come to you?
(31:16):
It's like if you're a writer and you get writer's block or you get imposter syndrome or something like that,
it's like you get a block. Does that ever happen to you with music?
Not really, but the melodies would come to me from, say that we just played a gig, we just played a concert,
(31:38):
and I'm on my way home and it's like imprinting.
It's like that music is still swimming around in my head and I may think of little pieces of those melodies that we just played
and I'll think, "Wow, there's a tune in there, there's another tune there."
And I'll just, for whatever the subconscious is doing there, it'll either happen where I can feel it on the way home
(32:05):
and I'll get the iPhone and record it and hum it into the recorder so I could reference it later.
Or I'll sleep, I'll dream music, maybe I'll dream a melody.
Washing dishes the other day, I was thinking of a tune that was going through my head that I never,
I think it was one of the tunes that we played but I just was thinking about the solo portion of it
(32:27):
that I never heard, I heard it a different way than I've ever played it.
And I thought to myself, "I'm going to go back to what I was just thinking and try to approach it that way."
If that makes sense.
It does, no, it makes great. And I just find it amazing that musicians can just pick up on that.
And that is the magic of music and the magic of bands and people who just pay money to see these bands,
(32:51):
they don't understand how damn difficult it is just to merge together, to separate, do your thing,
and then to merge together in a seamless way.
And jazz in particular, it is the ultimate preform.
You know, we get it all the time. We say, people say to us, "Do you guys rehearse all those little,
(33:13):
you know, because there's a lot of spontaneous things that happen in the performance.
Do you guys rehearse that?" And we say, "No, we never rehearse."
Those things that you're hearing are like right there, they happen right on the spot.
That's why I love jazz so much because jazz is so unique to that time, that audience, the place, the acoustics.
(33:36):
And the audience doesn't realize this. When you're in a concert situation, when you're in a listening environment
and you're hearing jazz musicians perform, they're part of a really unique situation where you're never going to hear those improvisations played that way again.
That's right. It's one of those times.
It's amazing. So a lot of times that'll happen. That's what I love about this is, again, it goes back to that listening factor,
(34:03):
and being sympathetic to the whole, to the overall group.
And also, I guess, knowing your history about jazz too, because I guess the youngsters who are studying it
and hanging around in New York trying to get a gig and come on stage for one number,
they have to be able to hit it and breathe it in that moment, otherwise that's their opportunity gone.
Right, exactly. Yeah, and that's, yeah, call that trial by fire.
(34:27):
That's right. So you, we alluded to the fact that you actually played at the White House in 1998 and in 2011. How did that come about?
Well, that was back in 1998. We started doing the college circuit, so we were getting pretty busy at that point,
and this was like five years into the band. And I had a group and I said, "You know, we're doing some really cool things.
(34:51):
Let me try to see if I want to really take this to the next level. What can I do to take this to the next level?"
I just said, "What can I do to get out there more? I want to get out to the more of the wider audience."
So then I saw a commercial on TV for the White House, and I thought, "Maybe I should give them a call."
Why not? Why not?
(35:13):
Yeah, why not? You know, and there's the phone numbers right there. It's right, you know, in the phone book or whatever.
It was listed through information. And so I called the White House and initially I had asked, you know,
I'm a musician, I have the Eric Mantell Quartet. We do a jazz group, and do you have any programs where you send musicians
(35:34):
to perform and any kind of like positive outreach type programs?
So, you know, initially I was thinking we could play for the homeless, we could play for troops overseas,
some kind of like thing that we could do with jazz on a wide scale.
So that was when I called, and then I also sent, they told me to send a CD and anything else that I had,
(35:57):
like a resume or whatever, to the social secretary at the White House.
Which I did. I put a CD we had at the time, and I put some loose press clippings that a newspaper story was written on us
a couple of years before. I just threw those in a manella envelope, didn't have any kind of folder,
just thrown in there, sent it to the White House, and about a week later I get a call on my machine and it said,
(36:20):
"This is the White House, this social secretary at the White House. We'd like to invite the Eric Mantell Quartet
to the White House for Christmas." And I was like, "Whoa!" And I thought it was a joke.
I thought it was, I was on the road and I was like checking my messages.
Thought Dave Moan was up to something.
Exactly, exactly. Either him or Nelson.
Yeah, Nelson, yeah.
(36:41):
And, but now that I called back and they said, "What's your availability for this?"
And we wound up playing a holiday dinner reception for President Clinton and it was touted as friends, family,
and foes of the president. And we played, I think we played like an hour set.
Terrific.
(37:02):
We did, not the band that I have now, this is a cult, completely different band.
But we played tunes and you know, people were mingling around.
But it was cool to be able to be in that environment.
But what was even cooler was to being taken into the diplomatic room after we were done.
And we got a photo op with the president. So we're standing there waiting for him to come in.
(37:24):
And it's just typical like you see on TV, you've got, you know, the Secret Service is going,
you know, coming to, so they would basically just, you know, we were like in a holding pattern until he came in.
And we went down and then he came in the room and I was shocked at how tall Clinton was.
He was at least 6'3". And I think the Harlem Boys Choir was on one side because they had performed earlier that day.
(37:49):
So he was getting a picture with them and he came up to me and the group and got a photo op.
And I said, "Mr. President, you and I have a mutual friend, Dave Brubeck."
And he said, "Ah, Dave Brubeck, you know, Dave Brubeck said I was the only elected official that could hum the bridge to Blue Rondo Altur."
(38:11):
And I gave him the CD we had and we got a great photo op.
So it was really cool. It was a really, really great situation.
He's a sax player, isn't he?
He was a sax player and my saxophone player we had at the time actually brought his tenor sax to set up just in case he was going to play.
But he didn't get a chance to play with us, which would be nice, but that would have been really cool.
(38:32):
But, and then fast forward 13 years later, Sherri, my girlfriend says, "You should try to call the White House again."
I said, "Nah, I think now. That was probably just a once in a lifetime thing. There's no way. There's no way I'll be able to get back in there."
And she said, "Well, give it a shot. Just give him a call." So I still had the phone number in my phone.
And I called up and they said, "Oh yeah, we still, we remember you. What's your availability for December 14th of 2011?"
(38:59):
I said, "I'm there."
Oh, wonderful.
So it was that easy. I just want to, I want to say it was that easy.
So all of these great opportunities through jazz, you know, just because of a love of the music.
And what I love about it is that it really has great power to, to heal, to heal, to heal lives.
(39:22):
Oh, absolutely. There was a guy who came up to me at a concert and said, "You know, I was really having a bad day today. I was really, really depressed. You brought me out of it."
And I was like, "Oh, that's, that's, that's what it's all about to me."
Absolutely.
If you're, if you could reach one person, that's what it's all about.
Tell me what the strangest gig is that you have played.
(39:44):
How many? How many?
Wow. Oh yeah.
Strange gigs, man. There's, there's a number of them. Let me just figure.
Well, you know, it was funny. We played, one time we played at Franklin and Marshall College in, I think it was in Reading. They're in Reading.
(40:06):
And we played for the Bessie Smith Society. And I mean, this was great though, because they had a jazz club on campus and these guys were great.
And girls were awesome to bring jazz on campus, which was awesome.
And it was strange in the fact that we were in this, in this dorm, in this basement of a dorm.
And the first time we played there, man, oh my God, there was like one door, one doorway to lead out.
(40:32):
If God forbid there was ever a fire. And, and it was back in the days that you could still spoil.
They were smoking big time. So it was nothing but just, it was so smoky in there.
And everybody was around, but they were, you know, they were digging the music and it was, it was great.
And the next day I think I opened up my keyboard case and a big plume of smoke came out.
(40:56):
But yeah, some, some, you know, the gigs, you know, I look at it this way.
Every time we play, it's usually a good environment. I won't put us in a weird situation.
If I do, then that's, you know, that's few and far between.
But most of the time we've, we've, we've had a good time at gigs.
A couple of times we have had one incident where we flew into South Carolina for a gig.
(41:23):
And we were to play that night. And I get a call as soon as we get to the hotel room that the gig is canceled.
Because no one could get up the mountain because it had snowed.
Like, and so here I am. I'm like, I got three other guys who have families that they've got to feed.
What am I going to do here? And I've got another gig, you know, the next day.
(41:47):
So anyway, we negotiated and thank God they were able to, you know, pay us for that gig anyway.
But things like that, you know, when you're a band leader, you not only have to be a band leader, you also have to be a psychiatrist.
You've got to be a psychologist. You've got to be, you've got to have so many, oh yeah, you've got to have so many, so many things, you know, around you.
(42:09):
That's why they called Duke Ellington the, the iron fist and the velvet glove.
Yeah, and, you know, it still continues this day as people, you know, travel the country, trying to gig and trying to make that money, especially in COVID.
It's extremely difficult. So you mentioned a little earlier about tensions in a band.
(42:31):
And for people that don't really understand, I mean, there's a lot of people that follow, especially rock bands, and they look at the history of the bands and when people fell out.
But they don't really know why. What are the tensions in a band and how do you manage them?
Well, the way I manage it is, I have the way I am, I'll manage it up to a point and then that person will kind of like weed themselves out of the band.
(42:57):
I've never really had to fire anybody, you know, so to speak.
But just if things don't work out, they just don't work out, you know, and if you're not, if you're not on the same page, you know, trying to make music and trying to do something, you know, I think those kind of tensions, it's hard, you know.
But most of the time, I will say that we have not, this band has not had an, maybe once or twice, has had an argument over the last 20 years.
(43:29):
And it's been about really nothing musically. It's been about other stuff.
Right.
But so, you know, when you're in jazz, I think, you know, jazz is, I like to think of jazz, and it is, it's a positive art form. We're playing a positive music.
So as far as you can't have any kind of tensions on that, on the bandstand, because if you're having those tensions, the audience is going to feel that.
(43:54):
And the audience is really why we're there, is that audience is the reason why we were there, why we're there in the first place.
And you know, a lot of guys like Miles Davis would turn their back to the audience and not care about that.
Well, that's fine. That was Miles Davis.
But, you know, I think in this day and age, people that are coming out to pay a ticket, and especially nowadays, to pay, you know, tickets to see a band, they won't have a really great experience, you know, both musically and entertaining.
(44:23):
I think that's very important. And we're going to talk about entertaining jazz in just a moment on Cafe W-O-W and with Eric Mantel.
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(44:47):
It's a fascinating process and you can find out how the Sharp End does it and why it could work for you at thesharp-end.com.
I'm back with Eric and let's talk a little bit about, we talked earlier about some of the financial elements of jazz, but jazz has changed dramatically over recent years.
Technology has meant that there's almost a different instrumentation. Labels like Blue Note have gone in a very interesting direction with people like Robert Glasper and a lot of almost experimental jazz players.
(45:24):
The electronic side of it has taken over quite dramatically. Tell me what you feel the jazz scene is like at the moment.
Just what you had said, I think there's formulas that I think a lot of these people have come up with that, I mean look, I understand that they want to make money.
(45:45):
I know the venues want to make money and they're going to do something that's going to bring in people to make money.
So having Elton John at the New Orleans Jazz Festivals, that's going to obviously make money. Is it jazz? Probably not.
But as a matter of fact, it isn't jazz, but it's entertainment, so that's the thing. And a lot of these festivals are going that route.
(46:09):
Even some jazz clubs are going to like a rhythm and blues thing or singer-songwriter stuff that's not even considered jazz.
But again, they think it's going to be something that they can generate income.
The other thing is, you know, it's the bands that are booked have to have, like we talked earlier about, have to have some kind of knowledge of social marketing, social media.
(46:36):
They've got to have some kind of social media presence.
And even with record labels, I did away with trying to go for a record label for years now because it was just a pointless process.
I mean, we would record albums, we've got like 13 records, which we've just sold on gigs, you know, and that's been a lot better.
(46:58):
And they're out there, I mean, they're a through CD baby and a lot of people have the records and stuff, but as far as getting a label.
So it's very frustrating in those terms.
But going with all the electronic music and all these other things, again, it's something that, you know, they want to recoup what they're putting out, you know.
(47:19):
And I think that's, let's face it, jazz has not brought in money over the years.
And that's the problem with it. That's where we're at now.
How would you sell the concept of jazz to a younger audience?
Because there is an element that says, well, jazz is berries and boring and, you know, guys turning up in cord pants and, and it's so not that.
(47:45):
But how would you sell jazz to a younger audience?
Well, doing to, well, here, you know, going back to the formula situation, you know, it's like if you could do something like even with younger audiences and even like middle aged audiences to where you have a tune like we would do a jazz version of
(48:08):
Aerosmith's Walk This Way, right? So that's something that they'd know. They would instinctively know right away.
They're not going to know, hey, take the A train, you know, they're not going to know something like that.
So if you give them something that they can latch onto, if they can identify, if they can connect with that, or do a Bruno Mars tune or something in a jazz format that the young, beyond say, you know, you know, I hate to say it, but that's what is needed to be done.
(48:37):
In order to connect with these people, you know, with the younger audience.
But then on the other hand, on the other side of that, which we've been experiencing, and I have to say that, and it all boils down to education because there is a lot of young people that do like jazz.
They're into jazz because things always reinvent themselves.
(48:59):
And whenever we go on the college campus or high schools, anything like that, we always get kids that are like sponges and they absorb the music.
And we even get people saying, you know, I never really liked jazz before, but I like your music.
And I think it just really boils down to the way you're presenting it.
So true, so true.
(49:20):
You know, accessible and accessible.
Not being too complicated about it.
Right.
And you can lead them.
I always say that you can lead them to that cerebral experience later on.
But if you're going to hit them with a million and one notes right out of the gate, you're definitely going to turn people off.
Right.
And I know there's several musicians that do that.
And if you're going to hit an audience with right out of the right in your first concert that have never heard jazz before, you'll lose them.
(49:47):
I mean, that's an unfortunate thing.
But you're, but there are also, you know, on the other hand of that, there are some people that want that, you know, cerebral.
They want the history.
Yeah.
So what would your three tips for young budding jazz musicians be?
Number one would be get out of the business.
(50:09):
No, no, you know, get in thorough knowledge of the, of your, your knowledge of jazz.
The history of jazz.
Yes.
And jazz is, you know, we all know is very important history, but I think you need to get a thorough knowledge of what's going on in jazz today and, and take that to the next level.
(50:33):
And know your instrument.
I think, you know, would be really get proficient on your instrument.
Go to this, go to that area of creativity where you don't even have to think about it.
It's just an automatic thing.
And that's what, that's what takes years and years to accomplish.
And third would be have fun with it.
(50:54):
Have fun with the music.
Right.
Have fun with it, but be creative.
I think they're great tips and certainly tips to live, live by for, for youngsters that are planning a jazz journey.
We're going to come back in just a moment to talk a little bit about your life as it is now, Eric, and, and maybe some of the paranormal elements of it.
(51:16):
This is John Dodds with Eric Mintel on Cafe W-O-W.
Back with Eric and we've talked about your life in jazz and it really has been a life in jazz.
What's the most important thing you've learned in life about the jazz journey that you've had?
It, wow, that's a good question.
(51:39):
The music itself is like you had said earlier is healing.
And I have, and still doing this, evolving into always wanting to be a better musician, always learning.
That's kind of where I'm at now.
(52:00):
I'm at a place where still being creative and still getting those creative ideas.
Whereas I'd like to look at it as playing jazz is like a Christmas day.
You know, it's that excitement.
It's that anticipation.
And that's the other thing we're always thinking ahead too, right?
(52:23):
With jazz.
So we're always anticipating the next note, the next phrase.
And, and I love it.
I just love that aspect of it.
What can I do differently tonight that I didn't do last, you know, the previous night?
Or what can I do differently?
How can I, you know, play this tune a different way and let the subconscious take over, not thinking about it.
(52:48):
I've gotten to the point where you're not even thinking about it.
Just, and it's just happening.
It's just those notes, those ideas are coming from, you know, the air through me, through my fingers.
And then into the guy's ears.
And what happens if they go off on a tangent that you hadn't planned for the evening?
Oh, that's happened a lot.
(53:10):
And that's good.
I like that, actually.
It's good because that's the ever, the always changing aspect of jazz.
And with Nelson is amazing.
And like, if he'll play a melody, or he'll play his solo.
And at the end of his solo, I'll take a phrase that he's played.
And I'll try to take that, and I'll try to create that and have fun with it.
(53:34):
And a lot of times you'll hear us do quotes from other tunes, you know, in our solos.
You drop a bit of Beatles in there and that kind of stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I put Hey Jude in our, in our, take five solo.
And it just worked perfectly for that.
I thought it was a great, great thing to do.
Yeah.
So tell us something about yourself that most people don't know.
(53:55):
Well, a lot of people don't know that I am, I've always been a filmmaker.
I've always been a documentary filmmaker for years.
And have always loved the paranormal.
Have always been into the paranormal for years, for ever since I was a kid.
And growing up here in Bucks County, as you guys have up, up, up in Loli High Valley, incredible history.
(54:20):
So in 2016, I just decided I was going to meld my love of jazz and the paranormal and come up with Bucks County Paranormal Investigations.
And started doing videos, video investigations and documentaries, short documentaries on historical locations here in Bucks County that have had great ties to history and paranormal history.
(54:48):
And the reason why that was so important was because a lot of times we would be, for years, we'd play concert halls and we'd be in there.
We'd be like, wow, this place is incredible.
And the guy booking it says, oh yeah.
And by the way, it's haunted.
So we would always have this, like it was always following us.
And I never even asked about it, but it was always following us, following me around, like it's always haunted.
(55:13):
And so I said, well, you know, it'd be great to have a show to where we go investigate and investigate these ghostly claims.
Meanwhile, telling a great story.
And that's what I've done.
Even the intro to my show, it goes, my name is Eric Mantell.
By night, I'm a professional jazz musician, but by even later at night, I investigate the paranormal.
(55:36):
So it's, you know, it's been a lot of fun.
And I'll tell you what, we've been experiencing a lot of really wild stuff.
You know, like I had mentioned to you earlier, a lot of times I'll go into these stories skeptically.
And I'll say, okay, what is really going on here?
Let's look at some science behind this.
(55:59):
What is going on here?
Is every place that people are saying is haunted, is it really haunted?
And we go in, we have some technology that we go in with magnetometers that test the electromagnetic energy.
And some, and we work with spirit mediums and psychics and things like that.
And I'll tell you, the more and more I've been doing this, the more and more I'm believing that there is a thin veil between the here and there.
(56:26):
Because of what we have captured on video.
And not only just with ghosts, but with, I mean, we do it all.
UFOs, Bigfoot, and that we were just out in Wisconsin investigating the beast of Bray Road, which was absolutely one of the most unnerving nights we've ever had where we actually encountered this werewolf-like wolf type creature.
(56:51):
That's walking around on two legs.
And it was just the most craziest thing.
I thought we were going to go out there and just hear a story and not see anything.
We actually encountered it, heard it, and saw the eye shine from this thing.
And it was coming toward us.
So I said to the team, we've got to get out of here.
(57:13):
And the people that are with me on my paranormal journeys are Dave Antonelle, who Dave and I played for years, never knew he liked videotaping as much as I did in shooting, you know, shooting video.
So he's been with me. My buddy Dominic Satell, I went to high school with Dominic, found out later that he is a psychic.
(57:34):
He's a spirit medium, which I never knew about.
And so he's been on a lot of the videos.
He was out in Wisconsin with me.
And then we have Ellen Collins, who's a fan of ours out in Wisconsin, who's on the team.
And then we've also got Karen Luchin, who's a spirit medium, a well-known author.
So all of these people that come into this realm are incredible.
(57:57):
And we're telling these really compelling stories and showing people what they have in their own backyard that they had no idea about.
And it's amazing that people have, it boggles my mind that we have so much here that people don't know about, but we're telling the stories.
And they're like, wow, I never knew that.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't want to know that because they get kind of spooked.
(58:20):
That's the kind of thing that keeps me up all night.
So was the Wisconsin incident your spookiest moment?
Yeah, that was very, very spooky because we had a trifecta of paranormal activity happen that night.
And I do have to say, though, the videos themselves that we do are very, very family friendly.
I want to put that out there.
Well, they're not scary.
(58:41):
They're not demonic or anything like that.
We don't go there.
But what happened in Wisconsin was just unbelievable.
We saw UFO.
It went a solid orb of light when over this field that we were in.
And it's obviously nighttime and it was not a plane.
It's not a meteor or anything like that.
(59:02):
It was just solidly going over us.
It did a 45 degree angle then disappeared.
Then right after that, we heard this ungodly howl that wasn't a wolf.
It wasn't a coyote.
It wasn't a screech howl.
It wasn't a fox.
Nothing like that.
This sounded like a man screaming in the field at this low guttural thing.
(59:25):
And it was just the most...
We all were freaked out.
It was absolutely freakish.
Then a mist came up, a really weird mist just like started coming up from the ground.
And this mist situation has been talked about in the paranormal field.
And what we believed we were probably in or could have most likely been in
(59:46):
was some kind of electromagnetic portal type of energy.
So we're still wrapping our heads around it, John.
It's like, you know, I would be the last one to say, hey, you know, this is...
That's all.
That's nothing.
It was nothing.
But it actually happened.
And it was...
And it was all caught on video.
So where would people go to see your videos?
(01:00:10):
They could go right to our Facebook page.
It's Bucks County Paranormal Investigations on Facebook.
Or go to our YouTube page, same thing, Bucks County Paranormal Investigations.
And the Beast of Bray Road video is like the first one right there.
We've got about 63 or 64 videos we've done over the last couple of years.
Very interesting.
(01:00:31):
So quite a departure from the jazz group for you at this stage in your life.
Yeah.
Well, you know, and that's the thing.
It still allows me to do the jazz, do my music.
You know, and the reason why we're doing these videos is...
And this is how this is developed.
I, in 2017, I was doing a show called Talking Jazz with Eric Montel.
(01:00:55):
It was a TV show bringing on jazz artists and talking about their lives.
And that's still being played.
That's still being played through Princeton Television, which actually just turned into
Central New Jersey Network now.
They've gotten even bigger.
They've a bigger area now.
So I said to the director, I said, "You know, I'd love to do a show about the paranormal
(01:01:19):
and call it, you know, Bucks County Paranormal Investigations."
So he said, "Yeah, let's do it."
So he's been airing me now Saturday nights at 11 o'clock through Central New Jersey Network.
So I'm on Roku TV, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Android TV, all of the streaming services
through Princeton Television.
(01:01:41):
And then Sunday nights up in the Lehigh Valley, I was picked up on Service Electric.
So we're on Sunday nights at 10 o'clock.
And why we're doing this too is we're getting a lot of sponsors from these different areas
that know in there, these people are great.
Judith Harris just became the sponsor of ours, great attorney up in the Lehigh Valley,
(01:02:02):
great patron of the arts.
And they see the value in this because of the paranormal genre itself is so huge.
People want to know why.
People want to know why.
And people want to know what is really going on because I don't care who you are.
Everyone has had a paranormal experience.
(01:02:24):
Absolutely right.
I've had two and I like to think of myself as a fairly regular person,
but I can tell you exactly where the two were and they are unexplainable incidents.
And you can kind of dismiss them if you like, but I saw them.
And so I'm sure we've all seen things that we can't understand.
(01:02:48):
And we throw them away as being a plane or a helicopter or something.
But I think that's exciting.
It's very exciting.
So, oh, it's amazing.
And I think we're in a position now.
I think people are more open-minded to it.
Whereas not 10 years ago, they probably wouldn't be.
But now you've got, look, you've got the government declassifying all the UFO reports.
(01:03:09):
Because yes, this has been happening for the last 60, 70 years.
So I think you have a lot more people open-minded to the fact that they're willing to come up and talk about it.
Absolutely.
Whereas they don't have that stigma of being ridiculed.
And of course, the media now, the social media,
gives so many more people the opportunities to just post their material and talk about it.
(01:03:32):
Oh yeah.
So absolutely.
So if I was to ask you, if there's one song that you would like to play for the rest of your life,
just one, what would it be?
Take five.
Take five, right.
Yeah.
And how would you like to be remembered?
(01:03:54):
Oh man, that's a great question.
I think like all of us want to be remembered, we want to be remembered for making a little difference in the world.
You know, and hopefully my difference in the world was through music and people,
people enjoyed listening to the music and they felt some kind of healing quality from the music
and felt better after hearing the music.
(01:04:17):
Well, I can vouch for that.
I've heard, seen and heard you many times and I always feel better after that.
So, I thank you for that.
And how can people find more about your music on your website and social media, I guess?
Yeah, yeah, ericmintelcortet.com is our website and my Facebook page,
(01:04:38):
Eric Mintel on my Facebook page and then Eric Mintel Cortet also on Facebook.
Instagram, Eric Mintel and I usually post all the time where we're going to be playing next.
This will be out in time for you to be publicized and we'll certainly look to see how we can do that and to come along and see you.
Absolutely.
(01:04:59):
It's always a pleasure seeing you and your lovely wife.
Oh, bless you.
Well, Eric, thank you so much for the time.
It's been wonderful to talk to you and unearth your uniqueness and it certainly is very unique.
And the craft of jazz, which so few people truly understand and you were very honest about some of the things that you feel are right and are not so right about jazz.
So, thank you very much for that.
(01:05:21):
Eric, thank you so much and look forward to seeing you in the cafe again very soon.
Definitely, John. Always give me a call.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for hanging out with our guest in Cafe WW.
You're an extremely valuable part of what Cafe WW is trying to bring to life.
(01:05:42):
Since the first coffee shop opened in Constantinople in 1475, cafes have been valuable places to gain knowledge, share words of wisdom and hang out with good friends.
I hope we can count on you returning as a valued customer.
So, if you're enjoying the conversation, simply click follow on your favorite podcast platform to guarantee you a coveted seat at Cafe WW.
(01:06:07):
Many thanks.
Thanks.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
Welcome to Café WOW. I'm John Dodds, your host, barista and bartender.
WOW represents the words of wisdom that my guests share, and my aim is to unearth the uniqueness of both my guests and the crafts they practice.
My guest today is jazz composer and pianist Eric Mintel. Eric has played the piano all his life.
(00:22):
Career highlights include two performances by invitation at the White House, several concerts at the Kennedy Center and a special concert at the United Nations.
His music is regularly played on XM and Sirius Radio. Jazz legend Dave Brubeck has said, "As long as the music attracts dedicated young musicians like Eric Mintel, jazz will continue to thrive and progress as a voice of freedom."
(00:46):
Today we're going to unearth the uniqueness of Eric Mintel, his life of jazz and his extraordinary interest in the extraordinary, or should I say, paranormal.
So I'm in Café WOW and we're waiting for Eric Mintel to join us. Oh, and here he is, Eric. Eric, how are you?
(01:08):
Hey John, how are you man?
Come and sit down. What would you fancy? A drink, a little something naughty or what do you fancy?
I think I'll do a little coffee. How about that? It's a great place for a café to have coffee. We've got plenty of that. We'll get you some coffee sorted out.
So we're going to talk about all manner of things with you. You're all manner of things to life. You're a band leader, you're a composer, you're a ghostbuster.
(01:36):
You're doing it all so we're going to find out, we're going to unearth your uniqueness. And you're a Pennsylvania boy.
Actually, no. I was born in New Jersey. Oh, yeah. I was born in Plainfield, New Jersey. Oh, interesting. In 1967. Oh my gosh, a flower power time.
(01:58):
Yeah, and then we moved to Pennsylvania actually in Upper Bucks County in, I think it was 1970 up to a really beautiful area called Upper Black Eddy.
Upper Black Eddy sounds lovely. And so what was your childhood like in Upper Black Eddy?
Oh man, I had a great childhood up there. I'm an only child, so I don't have any brothers or sisters. But I came from an environment that always had good music playing in the house.
(02:32):
Who was playing it?
My dad was mainly playing it. And back in the 70s, of course, I always heard a lot of Elton John, David Bowie, all kinds of rock and roll.
Fine choice.
But at the same time, I would hear a lot of classical music, Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, and I would also hear a lot of jazz.
(02:58):
And one of the things that people may or may not know is my mother's brother, Don Saccone, was a member of Frankie Valley in the four seasons.
Really?
He was their bass player from about 1972 to about 1982. And he's heard on all those hits like, "Oh, what a night." And "Who loves you."
(03:23):
He was an arranger for Frankie Valley, and he played bass and sang. So yeah, he was my uncle Don. But we lost him, unfortunately, in 2016.
But what a career he had.
Absolutely.
So there was that side of the family, always there was music there. There was always music being played. And I remember getting together with him, he would show me some of these cool things.
(03:45):
And I would hear all these great Dave Brubeck things that he was playing, take five, and I remember at a very, very early age.
But yeah, one of the things was that we may not have had much, but I did have a piano in the house.
(04:06):
And although it was somewhat in tune half the time, my dad would tune it every so often. But it was great to be able to get on there and create these melodies, and figure things out that I didn't know at the time was jazz.
Well, that's interesting, because a lot of people have pianos in the house, and they have piano teachers, and they're forced to sit down a couple of times a week and learn the piano.
(04:32):
And then it's a chore. It seemed to be something natural for you.
It was. And yeah, you mentioned some people have pianos in their house just for furniture, which killed me.
But yeah, no, it was really great to have that there, because when I did finally discover jazz in 1982 when I was 14, it was instrumental, because I was able to go right from those recordings I heard from Dave Brubeck.
(05:01):
And go right to the piano and try to figure those out. I didn't have a keyboard or anything at the time, so we had a piano.
And that was really incredible. But even before that, though, my parents could always find me sitting at the piano trying to make up my own melodies at like four or five years old.
And I remember my friends would come over and we would, I would play like the cartoon show themes on the piano for them, and they were just blown away by that.
(05:28):
So it was just that's been a part of my life, my whole life.
So I wonder whether that's just intrinsic in you, or whether it's the only child, or whether it's just an eight?
It's probably, I think it's probably like an only child thing, because I mean, I really had to go and have my, I had to go into that creative aspect.
You know, my mother was working all the time. She's a first grade school teacher.
(05:52):
So she was working and my father wasn't, he was working at the time in the early 70s, but wasn't there most of the time.
So I was pretty much a latchkey kid. You know, and I had him really just create my own environment, so to speak.
Well, you seem to have done it very well. I was reading the fact that there's your piano teacher trying to teach you the basics, and there's you saying, hey, don't worry about that.
(06:18):
I've got a brew packet in here.
I kept coming to the lessons playing take five and blue rondo. He's trying to teach me all these other things.
And I said, oh, look what I learned this week.
Oh, you must have loved you.
He was, he was great. And I still, I just, I actually just saw him a couple of weeks ago. He works.
And it was, it was a shame because early on, like he had tunnel vision, which was, he was literally had to be like so close to the page to see the music.
(06:47):
And, but he was a great teacher and he gave me the basics, you know, really just gave me the basics.
And, but I think he's completely blind now.
But because he had a seeing eye dog that I saw with him.
But I went up to him and his name is Alan Shelley.
And he remembered me. He's like, oh my God, how are you?
So, and I always say that I was, you know, say that, you know, having a good teacher like that early on is so important for, for any student or anybody that's, you know, because,
(07:16):
you know, you've all heard those stories where they've gotten piano teachers that don't have the patience to do anything.
And then, you know, then it's a bad experience for them.
I just teach this generally, isn't it? I mean, if some of you are interested in and you have a teacher that's trying to slap you down or demotivate you, it can be a huge thing.
Oh yeah. I mean, in high school, I mean, the prime example of that was I was in high school and in, I think, ninth, tenth grade, I'm playing in the music class.
(07:45):
Blue Rondo, take five, all the obscure, grubeck things.
And the teacher just went over his head. You know, he didn't give me the time of day.
Didn't give me any kind of encouragement.
Didn't give me any kind of direction. So it was tough.
Although the other piano teacher that was in that, in that school, he's kind of, he just actually was at our concert at the Sellersville Theater.
(08:09):
He's come to see us several times and is just blown away by what we're doing.
And I think that I think my piano teacher actually did come to a gig a number of years ago and he was like, he was impressed too.
But, you know, it's like, I was like, I tried to tell you, you know.
Yeah. Well, that's lovely. And because a lot of times a lot of kids try and do that and then they just lose it along the way.
(08:33):
And so I think the fact that you were able to do that and show the vision and, hey, by the way, I was at the White House as well.
Yeah. I mean, all of these things, John, is just like things that are leading you to something greater.
You know, that's how I look at it.
Did you think about that at the time? Did you, did you feel that this was something great or was it just something you enjoy doing?
(08:56):
I love doing it. You know, and the thing is I love the music, but the main thing was Dave Brubeck.
I really love Dave because of his work ethic, straight ahead family man, you know, just really all the stuff that he did for civil rights and just everything that, you know, he was about.
His values.
That was something that it was a great mentor to have for me because let's face it, nowadays, I mean, I was so lucky to have that.
(09:23):
But the kids nowadays don't have any mentors really to look up to.
I mean, you get these sports guys that are doing all these things, but not, you know, you need some of the that's really that vision and that's doing something great.
And that's why I think I latched on to Dave's music and Dave himself because I wanted, I wanted that. I wanted a life like that.
(09:44):
Right.
And I think that some somewhat of what I wanted to do was kind of like, I think even Dave said, he's like, you know, you play my music better than I play it.
You know, and that was it was really cool. I said, it's just the way we're, it's a tribute, but yet we're doing our own thing with it, you know.
And also I think that, you know, if you have a passion for it, you're going to get immersed yourself more into the individual than the individual even analyzes themselves, you know.
(10:12):
Yeah. And I tend to do that too. I try to, you know, I look at like if I'm interested or if I'm if I'm inspired by somebody who's in the arts or music,
I always want to find out what's their background. What was the, what was their life like, you know, two people that are, you would probably think this is completely opposite, but which it is, two of my greatest mentors, Dave Brubeck and Bruce Lee.
(10:37):
Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee because these guys, if you look, if you go, if you go back far enough, and especially with Brubeck too, what he had to go through in order to play his music.
You know, he wasn't just famous overnight because it take five. He was working that 20 years before, 25 years before, right after he got out of the military, you know.
(11:01):
So that quartet started in like 1950, 49, 48, somewhere around there. And then Paul Desmond came into it in 51. And then finally they made it with that, with take five.
And that didn't happen until 1963. And here Dave was 43 years old already.
That's quite amazing actually.
So overnight success after 25 years.
(11:24):
Exactly, exactly. So, you know, and that's unfortunate, but that's, but that's real talent there. You know, it's nothing was manufactured, so to speak, you know, like you have today where you can, you know, have one hit wonders and that's it.
And even with Bruce Lee, same thing, he just, you know, was laser focused on what he wanted and it, he made it happen. Unfortunately, he passed, but, you know, at an early age, but I think he had usurped all of his energy to get to that point.
(11:55):
And, you know, it was, but he's, he's immortal now. Everybody knows who that is.
Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and again, it's that discipline, isn't it? It's about that single-minded focus. And that's the, and that's the trouble with, with anything creative. If you, if you don't give it your all, there's always going to be someone around that does.
(12:16):
Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I think too, you, you, there's always these formulas that people want to try to try to do.
And, you know, and I'm, I'm one of those that, you know, we started out with my group. I started this group in the Eric and Tell Quartet in 1993.
And at first we started doing the college circuit because, again, going back to the Dave Grubeck idea, Dave started doing college campuses, you know, when he started.
(12:44):
So we started doing the college campuses. We started doing tributes to Dave Grubeck, but we were always doing a lot of my music too.
And I had a lot of other influences. A lot of people think I just elicited Dave Grubeck, but I elicited Oscar Peterson, Chick Korea, Bill Evans, Oscar P, Art Tatum, all the older guys do Wellington.
So all of those influences were there as well. And so, you know, then, and then it gradually started going to where we started doing more and more of my own music.
(13:13):
And, and then that led to Dave himself saying to Mary and McPartland, Hey, I have a guy here, Eric Mintel, you might want to have him on your show.
And then I got a call from Marion in 2004. And she said, Would you like to be a guest on my show on piano jazz?
(13:34):
So I was. And it was amazing just to be able to talk with her, be with her and play duos with her on that iconic program.
And did that, before I explore that, going back to how you started there at Mintel Court, how did that happen? Were you were you in college or how did it all happen?
No, I, you know, and probably people cringe when I hear when they hear this, but no, I'm pretty much self taught. I again, going back to the piano teacher coming to the lessons playing all this obscure music, he said, Look, I really can't, you know, teach you anymore.
(14:11):
You're going to have to go your own way. So that's pretty much what I've done. Of course, you know, the musicians that I've had in my group over the years have been some of the greatest teachers too.
You know, so that's where my classroom was, you know, in the on the bandstand. And it was, it was great to play with some great musicians, some great musicians and some we couldn't get along with.
(14:33):
But, you know, music was always, was always good was first and foremost, some people I got off the bandstand and, you know, we were complete strangers.
But that's just that's human nature. But now the group that I've got now we've been together for about 20 some odd years, over 20 years.
I'm Dave Antonow and I've played 22 years together. It's kind of like, it's not only a band of brothers, but it's like we kind of like are reading our, our mind or reading each other's minds.
(15:02):
But initially, yeah, I started doing the tributes to Dave Grubeck, and that was way back in 1993. And we would do with the college circuits all up and down the Eastern Seaboard.
But I started it going back to that. I started it actually. I was playing in my garage on an old beat up upright piano.
And I had a synthesizer with drum sounds next to me. It's setting all the drum beats up for like take five and blue rondo and everything like that, or just a swing rhythm or whatever.
(15:35):
And I was just sitting there playing along with that. And then I just had this idea. Yeah, I would love to do. Why don't we do a trip?
Why don't I do a tribute to Dave Brubeck, try to find musicians that we could do this.
And I went to a jam session in Doylestown, Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and found some people that were like-minded, great musicians, and we hit it off.
(15:58):
And I remember every Saturday, I'd have to go because they were from the University of the Arts in Philadelphia.
And I would go down every Saturday morning to go down and rehearse all these tunes with them.
And then our first concert was in 1993 at Delaware Valley College in Doylestown.
And we had a-you know, I promoted it, I publicized it, did a newspaper story, and we had about three or four hundred people came out, that first concert.
(16:26):
Got a standing ovation, and I said, "This is it. This is it."
So did you ever think, "Well, if this isn't going to work, I'll do this?"
I'm thinking about that now.
Too late. Too late.
No, right, exactly. Oh my God.
Yeah, oh yeah, there's been, believe me, John, there's been some dark days, man.
(16:47):
You know, when things aren't working out right and just financially things are just so terrible and just in dire streets.
I just think to myself, "Man, man, what did I get myself into here?"
It's interesting.
There's a band I follow called Acoustic Alchemy, and their keyboard by here has just announced that he's giving it up and he's going to be a roofer.
(17:14):
And it's smart, man.
Well, that's right.
And he's like, "Goodness, man, he's one of these outstanding keyboard players."
But I think that COVID and trying to, you know, manage his life, he decided he had to do that.
And I would imagine it's probably a decision. It's tough for musicians. It's tough for anyone creative.
Your all-out hope is that tomorrow and the next day is going to bring you the gig that balances it all out.
(17:39):
Yeah, and that's sad to hear that too.
But I mean, but I'm not surprised though, because, you know, we talked, we kind of briefly talked about this earlier that, you know, unfortunately, we're in a society right now when it comes to jazz,
but jazz is probably in the worst state it's ever been as far as, you know, the music goes and the musicians that are not getting the proper, the really good musicians that are not getting the proper accolades or respect.
(18:10):
But there's a lot of...
You know, I just think because there's so many people that are out there that they are "think they're jazz musicians" and they want to play because they've got to play.
And they're doing a disservice by going in and playing for free, number one, which is not always not good.
Whenever we do clinics at schools, I always say to the kids, "Never play for free, you know?"
(18:37):
Look, I'm guilty of it too. In the early part of my career, I had to play a few free gigs to get that, you know, exposure, but I wouldn't continue that.
And my whole goal now has been to always get a better wage for us and for the musicians, for musicians in general, because, you know, people are going to play for $100.
(18:58):
They've been playing for $100 a guy for 50 years and enough is enough.
I mean, you can't have a... And no wonder these guys are dropping out because you can't live on that.
I mean, it's... I look at it this way too, John. We're a service-oriented business.
You know, musicians are a service... good musicians. I want to say that again.
I want to reiterate that good musicians that are entertaining people.
(19:23):
And I'm talking jazz here too. We're a service-oriented business and we're providing that service to customers or a concert hall or whatever, and should be paid accordingly.
Now, when we're doing that, the concert hall situation is a different situation, of course, because, you know, when you're getting to that level, you can pretty much, you know, ask for what you want at that point.
(19:49):
But a lot of these people... and I'm not going to name names, but I see a lot of these people that are quote-unquote being said that, "Oh, he's the greatest drummer in this area," or, "He's the greatest singer in this area."
We beg to differ because it's like, you know, I'm not one to ever put musicians down, but when it comes to interfering with making a living and being a professional, that's when you have to really put your foot down.
(20:17):
And I think what COVID has done is make us realize how much we value connection and how much we value music, and the combination of going to watch music and seeing wonderful musicians play, whatever genre it is, it just means so much to so many people.
(20:39):
And it is really beholden on the people that go to these concerts to pay the money for it, because I don't think people realize how much musicians have suffered over the COVID crisis.
There hasn't been gigs. People have tried to do different things online or whatever, but it's been very tough. It's tough from the isolation point of view and it's tough from a money point of view.
(21:03):
Totally. I mean, yeah, totally. I totally agree with that.
And the fact is, I know there's several musicians that are phenomenal, phenomenal musicians, I mean, that are just award-winning keyboard players, drummers, and they're not working.
You know, they're not working because they're not getting called. They're not getting called because this person went in and underbid them for that particular job,
(21:29):
which is, and they're not even a musician, to be honest with you, but that's one thing that we've really got to put a handle on.
We have this conversation a lot in business too about how a company's been, and there was a very interesting book I've been reading about pitching for business,
(21:51):
and the kind of 10 commandments of what you should do and what you shouldn't do, and creators in general, whether it's in business, whether you're an agency or whatever,
you tend to almost give away your crown jewels with the pitch because you believe that's the way of getting your business.
And of course, the client will sit there and take all of that and then shop it around the place.
(22:13):
And that may be the way to buy pipe, but it isn't the way to buy creativity.
But I do believe that it is up to the musicians too to try and create a uniqueness for themselves so that people are aware of that.
And part of it, of course, is generating interest online and generating a buzz about themselves.
(22:35):
I don't think it's good enough these days just to be a great musician.
I think you've unfortunately got to be online and you do a great job in being out and about and being online,
because I think that makes a difference. It keeps you front of mind.
I couldn't agree more. I had gotten some backlash when I said one time that musicians are their own worst enemy,
(22:58):
and I didn't mean that anything bad by that.
I meant in the fact that they are, as far as business is concerned, blowing our own horn, so to speak.
You've got to let people know what you're doing and promote what you're doing and how important it is to what you're doing to the community.
And I think that's one of the things I have done just because, I guess, me and myself, I've always been like a salesman.
(23:26):
So sales, I mean, we're always selling ourselves.
I don't care who it is, musicians or whoever, we're always selling ourselves.
If you're having a conversation with someone, you're always improvising too.
So we're always selling ourselves, selling our ideas, selling ourselves to other people.
So that's one thing that what you just said is important really to get the word out there.
(23:52):
And now we've got so many different avenues of doing that where we didn't have this maybe 15 years ago.
And it's time consuming, and for a lot of musicians, that's difficult because they're introverts, and it's a difficult thing to do, but it's so essential.
Let me take you back to a little bit back to how when you started the quartet, it grew, and you then felt, hey, I can make a career out of this, and I can have some fun with this.
(24:17):
And how did it develop?
It just developed where after that first concert, we had one gig.
That was one gig for that year.
And then of course, it developed with me getting on the phone and getting on the phone to venues, concert halls, churches, libraries, you name it, elementary schools, high schools, colleges, that would want to have us do a concert.
(24:45):
And if we went into colleges and universities, I would do like workshops and things like that.
So it just developed from there.
It developed from a real grassroots effort on my part.
I didn't have any help on this as far as booking goes.
I've had some people over the years, a handful of people have tried to help me, but haven't gotten me any work.
(25:06):
And because it's a difficult thing, it's very hard to book music as anyone, any booker will tell you, I'm sure.
But I just said, look, I got to eat.
I got to survive here.
I got a family.
At that time, I had a family, I had a wife and daughter to support.
And now my daughter's grown up.
(25:27):
Now she's in college.
But yeah, those things, it just developed.
And then the next year, we had like three gigs.
The next year after that, we had 10 gigs.
So it was exponential growth as the years went on.
It developed in the fact that we not only were doing Brubeck, but we started doing all kinds of jazz standards we did.
And I would rework some of those jazz standards because I felt like everybody's playing them the same way.
(25:52):
I wanted to change it up a little bit and have some different arrangements of those tunes.
And to make it interesting and not boring, you know.
And then so it just kept going from there. And just to this day, it has just been a constant evolution.
And even today, when I bring an original tune to the guys, it'll be one way when I first bring it to them.
(26:18):
But as we play it, it becomes this like an appealing of an onion.
It's becoming this organic thing where it changes and then it becomes it evolves and it becomes its own entity.
Because of each one of these guys special gifts that they put into it.
Great. We're going to come back in just a moment to understand how you unpeel the onion and also talk about the presidential gigs that you did on Cafe WOW.
(26:49):
The much valued tip jar and bell, which is very much a feature of Cafe WOW, is provided by the sharp end of boutique brand consultancy,
helping organizations unearth and communicate their uniqueness in the most cost-effective way.
It's a fascinating process and you can find out how the sharp end does it and why it could work for you at the sharp-end.com.
(27:13):
Back with Eric Mintel. Eric, tell me a little bit about peeling or unpeeling the onion.
I'm fascinated by how a tune happens for you.
And once you have it in your head and you think you got something, how do you take it to the band and what do they do with it?
Well, as we all know, when you peel an onion, you cry. You have a lot of tears.
(27:38):
And for me, trying to write a tune, it's absolutely impossible sometimes for me to get that down on paper.
I'll have it in my head. So if anybody can sympathize with this, I have a lot of melodies all the time.
Music's going through my head constantly. So in that respect, what I'll do is I will record it.
(27:59):
Thank God we have these things called "Enranger Goes" and his musicianship is also just otherworldly.
But I would give Nelson a... Actually, I would actually call Nelson on the phone and I would play a melody over the piano and say,
"Nelson, how does this go?" And he would write it out on the other line, you know?
So early on we were doing tunes like that and then we'd of course get together on the gigs sometimes before the gig, right before the gig,
(28:26):
and write out the melody and then play it that night. And I could do that with these guys. You can't do that with everybody.
I could do that with these guys because the level of musicianship is incredible, but the level of being comfortable with each other is incredible as well.
And we all know each other's style and I know what these guys are going to do with the tune.
(28:51):
And Dave Moan on drums, I know instinctively what he's going to do, if it's a Latin influenced kind of piece,
he's going to give me the right kind of Latin rhythm. Jack Hedgie on bass, he'll give me a great bass line,
or if it's a swing line, he'll give me a great, you know, just the meat and potatoes of everything.
(29:12):
And same thing with Dave Antonov, when Dave and Jack switch on and off sometimes in the group.
And Dave had studied with Michael Moore, who was actually Dave Brubeck's bass player in the years up to Dave's passing.
And so, you know, I've been very, very fortunate to have very, very talented guys in the group that you can't really say that a lot with a lot of bands.
(29:36):
And we listen, this band has incredible ears and listening is so key.
So what I'll do is I'll bring that chart to the band and say, "Look, you know, this is what it is."
And we'll do like one run-through.
I think people would be shocked if you didn't understand jazz or even music, actually, that if you're in business
(30:00):
and you're saying, "Look, we have a strategy here, we're going to do one quick run-through and then the whole of the organization is going to go off and do it."
And by the way, you're all going to come back at the end of the year and you're all going to sound exactly the same.
Exactly. That's a wonderful thing if that could happen, right?
But isn't jazz the beautiful that way? It's almost inconceivable that you could actually create a melody in your head, take it to a gig and create it.
(30:27):
Well, you witnessed it, John. You witnessed it firsthand the night we were at Symphony Hall.
There was a tune we'd never played before and we played it that night and it came off exactly the way I wanted it to come off,
that we all wanted it to come off because I was in that zone where, "Look, we're going for it.
Everybody knows what they're doing here. Let's create, let's let this have a life to it."
(30:52):
And that's kind of what it is. It's like these tunes are like your baby and then you play them and then they become their own,
they become their own thing and they have their own life.
And I've been very fortunate, yeah, that life would be so much better, man,
it would just be like you could just say one thing in business and just be done with it, you know?
And I think what's fascinating about the idea of a melody, when do they come to you?
(31:16):
It's like if you're a writer and you get writer's block or you get imposter syndrome or something like that,
it's like you get a block. Does that ever happen to you with music?
Not really, but the melodies would come to me from, say that we just played a gig, we just played a concert,
(31:38):
and I'm on my way home and it's like imprinting.
It's like that music is still swimming around in my head and I may think of little pieces of those melodies that we just played
and I'll think, "Wow, there's a tune in there, there's another tune there."
And I'll just, for whatever the subconscious is doing there, it'll either happen where I can feel it on the way home
(32:05):
and I'll get the iPhone and record it and hum it into the recorder so I could reference it later.
Or I'll sleep, I'll dream music, maybe I'll dream a melody.
Washing dishes the other day, I was thinking of a tune that was going through my head that I never,
I think it was one of the tunes that we played but I just was thinking about the solo portion of it
(32:27):
that I never heard, I heard it a different way than I've ever played it.
And I thought to myself, "I'm going to go back to what I was just thinking and try to approach it that way."
If that makes sense.
It does, no, it makes great. And I just find it amazing that musicians can just pick up on that.
And that is the magic of music and the magic of bands and people who just pay money to see these bands,
(32:51):
they don't understand how damn difficult it is just to merge together, to separate, do your thing,
and then to merge together in a seamless way.
And jazz in particular, it is the ultimate preform.
You know, we get it all the time. We say, people say to us, "Do you guys rehearse all those little,
(33:13):
you know, because there's a lot of spontaneous things that happen in the performance.
Do you guys rehearse that?" And we say, "No, we never rehearse."
Those things that you're hearing are like right there, they happen right on the spot.
That's why I love jazz so much because jazz is so unique to that time, that audience, the place, the acoustics.
(33:36):
And the audience doesn't realize this. When you're in a concert situation, when you're in a listening environment
and you're hearing jazz musicians perform, they're part of a really unique situation where you're never going to hear those improvisations played that way again.
That's right. It's one of those times.
It's amazing. So a lot of times that'll happen. That's what I love about this is, again, it goes back to that listening factor,
(34:03):
and being sympathetic to the whole, to the overall group.
And also, I guess, knowing your history about jazz too, because I guess the youngsters who are studying it
and hanging around in New York trying to get a gig and come on stage for one number,
they have to be able to hit it and breathe it in that moment, otherwise that's their opportunity gone.
Right, exactly. Yeah, and that's, yeah, call that trial by fire.
(34:27):
That's right. So you, we alluded to the fact that you actually played at the White House in 1998 and in 2011. How did that come about?
Well, that was back in 1998. We started doing the college circuit, so we were getting pretty busy at that point,
and this was like five years into the band. And I had a group and I said, "You know, we're doing some really cool things.
(34:51):
Let me try to see if I want to really take this to the next level. What can I do to take this to the next level?"
I just said, "What can I do to get out there more? I want to get out to the more of the wider audience."
So then I saw a commercial on TV for the White House, and I thought, "Maybe I should give them a call."
Why not? Why not?
(35:13):
Yeah, why not? You know, and there's the phone numbers right there. It's right, you know, in the phone book or whatever.
It was listed through information. And so I called the White House and initially I had asked, you know,
I'm a musician, I have the Eric Mantell Quartet. We do a jazz group, and do you have any programs where you send musicians
(35:34):
to perform and any kind of like positive outreach type programs?
So, you know, initially I was thinking we could play for the homeless, we could play for troops overseas,
some kind of like thing that we could do with jazz on a wide scale.
So that was when I called, and then I also sent, they told me to send a CD and anything else that I had,
(35:57):
like a resume or whatever, to the social secretary at the White House.
Which I did. I put a CD we had at the time, and I put some loose press clippings that a newspaper story was written on us
a couple of years before. I just threw those in a manella envelope, didn't have any kind of folder,
just thrown in there, sent it to the White House, and about a week later I get a call on my machine and it said,
(36:20):
"This is the White House, this social secretary at the White House. We'd like to invite the Eric Mantell Quartet
to the White House for Christmas." And I was like, "Whoa!" And I thought it was a joke.
I thought it was, I was on the road and I was like checking my messages.
Thought Dave Moan was up to something.
Exactly, exactly. Either him or Nelson.
Yeah, Nelson, yeah.
(36:41):
And, but now that I called back and they said, "What's your availability for this?"
And we wound up playing a holiday dinner reception for President Clinton and it was touted as friends, family,
and foes of the president. And we played, I think we played like an hour set.
Terrific.
(37:02):
We did, not the band that I have now, this is a cult, completely different band.
But we played tunes and you know, people were mingling around.
But it was cool to be able to be in that environment.
But what was even cooler was to being taken into the diplomatic room after we were done.
And we got a photo op with the president. So we're standing there waiting for him to come in.
(37:24):
And it's just typical like you see on TV, you've got, you know, the Secret Service is going,
you know, coming to, so they would basically just, you know, we were like in a holding pattern until he came in.
And we went down and then he came in the room and I was shocked at how tall Clinton was.
He was at least 6'3". And I think the Harlem Boys Choir was on one side because they had performed earlier that day.
(37:49):
So he was getting a picture with them and he came up to me and the group and got a photo op.
And I said, "Mr. President, you and I have a mutual friend, Dave Brubeck."
And he said, "Ah, Dave Brubeck, you know, Dave Brubeck said I was the only elected official that could hum the bridge to Blue Rondo Altur."
(38:11):
And I gave him the CD we had and we got a great photo op.
So it was really cool. It was a really, really great situation.
He's a sax player, isn't he?
He was a sax player and my saxophone player we had at the time actually brought his tenor sax to set up just in case he was going to play.
But he didn't get a chance to play with us, which would be nice, but that would have been really cool.
(38:32):
But, and then fast forward 13 years later, Sherri, my girlfriend says, "You should try to call the White House again."
I said, "Nah, I think now. That was probably just a once in a lifetime thing. There's no way. There's no way I'll be able to get back in there."
And she said, "Well, give it a shot. Just give him a call." So I still had the phone number in my phone.
And I called up and they said, "Oh yeah, we still, we remember you. What's your availability for December 14th of 2011?"
(38:59):
I said, "I'm there."
Oh, wonderful.
So it was that easy. I just want to, I want to say it was that easy.
So all of these great opportunities through jazz, you know, just because of a love of the music.
And what I love about it is that it really has great power to, to heal, to heal, to heal lives.
(39:22):
Oh, absolutely. There was a guy who came up to me at a concert and said, "You know, I was really having a bad day today. I was really, really depressed. You brought me out of it."
And I was like, "Oh, that's, that's, that's what it's all about to me."
Absolutely.
If you're, if you could reach one person, that's what it's all about.
Tell me what the strangest gig is that you have played.
(39:44):
How many? How many?
Wow. Oh yeah.
Strange gigs, man. There's, there's a number of them. Let me just figure.
Well, you know, it was funny. We played, one time we played at Franklin and Marshall College in, I think it was in Reading. They're in Reading.
(40:06):
And we played for the Bessie Smith Society. And I mean, this was great though, because they had a jazz club on campus and these guys were great.
And girls were awesome to bring jazz on campus, which was awesome.
And it was strange in the fact that we were in this, in this dorm, in this basement of a dorm.
And the first time we played there, man, oh my God, there was like one door, one doorway to lead out.
(40:32):
If God forbid there was ever a fire. And, and it was back in the days that you could still spoil.
They were smoking big time. So it was nothing but just, it was so smoky in there.
And everybody was around, but they were, you know, they were digging the music and it was, it was great.
And the next day I think I opened up my keyboard case and a big plume of smoke came out.
(40:56):
But yeah, some, some, you know, the gigs, you know, I look at it this way.
Every time we play, it's usually a good environment. I won't put us in a weird situation.
If I do, then that's, you know, that's few and far between.
But most of the time we've, we've, we've had a good time at gigs.
A couple of times we have had one incident where we flew into South Carolina for a gig.
(41:23):
And we were to play that night. And I get a call as soon as we get to the hotel room that the gig is canceled.
Because no one could get up the mountain because it had snowed.
Like, and so here I am. I'm like, I got three other guys who have families that they've got to feed.
What am I going to do here? And I've got another gig, you know, the next day.
(41:47):
So anyway, we negotiated and thank God they were able to, you know, pay us for that gig anyway.
But things like that, you know, when you're a band leader, you not only have to be a band leader, you also have to be a psychiatrist.
You've got to be a psychologist. You've got to be, you've got to have so many, oh yeah, you've got to have so many, so many things, you know, around you.
(42:09):
That's why they called Duke Ellington the, the iron fist and the velvet glove.
Yeah, and, you know, it still continues this day as people, you know, travel the country, trying to gig and trying to make that money, especially in COVID.
It's extremely difficult. So you mentioned a little earlier about tensions in a band.
(42:31):
And for people that don't really understand, I mean, there's a lot of people that follow, especially rock bands, and they look at the history of the bands and when people fell out.
But they don't really know why. What are the tensions in a band and how do you manage them?
Well, the way I manage it is, I have the way I am, I'll manage it up to a point and then that person will kind of like weed themselves out of the band.
(42:57):
I've never really had to fire anybody, you know, so to speak.
But just if things don't work out, they just don't work out, you know, and if you're not, if you're not on the same page, you know, trying to make music and trying to do something, you know, I think those kind of tensions, it's hard, you know.
But most of the time, I will say that we have not, this band has not had an, maybe once or twice, has had an argument over the last 20 years.
(43:29):
And it's been about really nothing musically. It's been about other stuff.
Right.
But so, you know, when you're in jazz, I think, you know, jazz is, I like to think of jazz, and it is, it's a positive art form. We're playing a positive music.
So as far as you can't have any kind of tensions on that, on the bandstand, because if you're having those tensions, the audience is going to feel that.
(43:54):
And the audience is really why we're there, is that audience is the reason why we were there, why we're there in the first place.
And you know, a lot of guys like Miles Davis would turn their back to the audience and not care about that.
Well, that's fine. That was Miles Davis.
But, you know, I think in this day and age, people that are coming out to pay a ticket, and especially nowadays, to pay, you know, tickets to see a band, they won't have a really great experience, you know, both musically and entertaining.
(44:23):
I think that's very important. And we're going to talk about entertaining jazz in just a moment on Cafe W-O-W and with Eric Mantel.
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(44:47):
It's a fascinating process and you can find out how the Sharp End does it and why it could work for you at thesharp-end.com.
I'm back with Eric and let's talk a little bit about, we talked earlier about some of the financial elements of jazz, but jazz has changed dramatically over recent years.
Technology has meant that there's almost a different instrumentation. Labels like Blue Note have gone in a very interesting direction with people like Robert Glasper and a lot of almost experimental jazz players.
(45:24):
The electronic side of it has taken over quite dramatically. Tell me what you feel the jazz scene is like at the moment.
Just what you had said, I think there's formulas that I think a lot of these people have come up with that, I mean look, I understand that they want to make money.
(45:45):
I know the venues want to make money and they're going to do something that's going to bring in people to make money.
So having Elton John at the New Orleans Jazz Festivals, that's going to obviously make money. Is it jazz? Probably not.
But as a matter of fact, it isn't jazz, but it's entertainment, so that's the thing. And a lot of these festivals are going that route.
(46:09):
Even some jazz clubs are going to like a rhythm and blues thing or singer-songwriter stuff that's not even considered jazz.
But again, they think it's going to be something that they can generate income.
The other thing is, you know, it's the bands that are booked have to have, like we talked earlier about, have to have some kind of knowledge of social marketing, social media.
(46:36):
They've got to have some kind of social media presence.
And even with record labels, I did away with trying to go for a record label for years now because it was just a pointless process.
I mean, we would record albums, we've got like 13 records, which we've just sold on gigs, you know, and that's been a lot better.
(46:58):
And they're out there, I mean, they're a through CD baby and a lot of people have the records and stuff, but as far as getting a label.
So it's very frustrating in those terms.
But going with all the electronic music and all these other things, again, it's something that, you know, they want to recoup what they're putting out, you know.
(47:19):
And I think that's, let's face it, jazz has not brought in money over the years.
And that's the problem with it. That's where we're at now.
How would you sell the concept of jazz to a younger audience?
Because there is an element that says, well, jazz is berries and boring and, you know, guys turning up in cord pants and, and it's so not that.
(47:45):
But how would you sell jazz to a younger audience?
Well, doing to, well, here, you know, going back to the formula situation, you know, it's like if you could do something like even with younger audiences and even like middle aged audiences to where you have a tune like we would do a jazz version of
(48:08):
Aerosmith's Walk This Way, right? So that's something that they'd know. They would instinctively know right away.
They're not going to know, hey, take the A train, you know, they're not going to know something like that.
So if you give them something that they can latch onto, if they can identify, if they can connect with that, or do a Bruno Mars tune or something in a jazz format that the young, beyond say, you know, you know, I hate to say it, but that's what is needed to be done.
(48:37):
In order to connect with these people, you know, with the younger audience.
But then on the other hand, on the other side of that, which we've been experiencing, and I have to say that, and it all boils down to education because there is a lot of young people that do like jazz.
They're into jazz because things always reinvent themselves.
(48:59):
And whenever we go on the college campus or high schools, anything like that, we always get kids that are like sponges and they absorb the music.
And we even get people saying, you know, I never really liked jazz before, but I like your music.
And I think it just really boils down to the way you're presenting it.
So true, so true.
(49:20):
You know, accessible and accessible.
Not being too complicated about it.
Right.
And you can lead them.
I always say that you can lead them to that cerebral experience later on.
But if you're going to hit them with a million and one notes right out of the gate, you're definitely going to turn people off.
Right.
And I know there's several musicians that do that.
And if you're going to hit an audience with right out of the right in your first concert that have never heard jazz before, you'll lose them.
(49:47):
I mean, that's an unfortunate thing.
But you're, but there are also, you know, on the other hand of that, there are some people that want that, you know, cerebral.
They want the history.
Yeah.
So what would your three tips for young budding jazz musicians be?
Number one would be get out of the business.
(50:09):
No, no, you know, get in thorough knowledge of the, of your, your knowledge of jazz.
The history of jazz.
Yes.
And jazz is, you know, we all know is very important history, but I think you need to get a thorough knowledge of what's going on in jazz today and, and take that to the next level.
(50:33):
And know your instrument.
I think, you know, would be really get proficient on your instrument.
Go to this, go to that area of creativity where you don't even have to think about it.
It's just an automatic thing.
And that's what, that's what takes years and years to accomplish.
And third would be have fun with it.
(50:54):
Have fun with the music.
Right.
Have fun with it, but be creative.
I think they're great tips and certainly tips to live, live by for, for youngsters that are planning a jazz journey.
We're going to come back in just a moment to talk a little bit about your life as it is now, Eric, and, and maybe some of the paranormal elements of it.
(51:16):
This is John Dodds with Eric Mintel on Cafe W-O-W.
Back with Eric and we've talked about your life in jazz and it really has been a life in jazz.
What's the most important thing you've learned in life about the jazz journey that you've had?
It, wow, that's a good question.
(51:39):
The music itself is like you had said earlier is healing.
And I have, and still doing this, evolving into always wanting to be a better musician, always learning.
That's kind of where I'm at now.
(52:00):
I'm at a place where still being creative and still getting those creative ideas.
Whereas I'd like to look at it as playing jazz is like a Christmas day.
You know, it's that excitement.
It's that anticipation.
And that's the other thing we're always thinking ahead too, right?
(52:23):
With jazz.
So we're always anticipating the next note, the next phrase.
And, and I love it.
I just love that aspect of it.
What can I do differently tonight that I didn't do last, you know, the previous night?
Or what can I do differently?
How can I, you know, play this tune a different way and let the subconscious take over, not thinking about it.
(52:48):
I've gotten to the point where you're not even thinking about it.
Just, and it's just happening.
It's just those notes, those ideas are coming from, you know, the air through me, through my fingers.
And then into the guy's ears.
And what happens if they go off on a tangent that you hadn't planned for the evening?
Oh, that's happened a lot.
(53:10):
And that's good.
I like that, actually.
It's good because that's the ever, the always changing aspect of jazz.
And with Nelson is amazing.
And like, if he'll play a melody, or he'll play his solo.
And at the end of his solo, I'll take a phrase that he's played.
And I'll try to take that, and I'll try to create that and have fun with it.
(53:34):
And a lot of times you'll hear us do quotes from other tunes, you know, in our solos.
You drop a bit of Beatles in there and that kind of stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I put Hey Jude in our, in our, take five solo.
And it just worked perfectly for that.
I thought it was a great, great thing to do.
Yeah.
So tell us something about yourself that most people don't know.
(53:55):
Well, a lot of people don't know that I am, I've always been a filmmaker.
I've always been a documentary filmmaker for years.
And have always loved the paranormal.
Have always been into the paranormal for years, for ever since I was a kid.
And growing up here in Bucks County, as you guys have up, up, up in Loli High Valley, incredible history.
(54:20):
So in 2016, I just decided I was going to meld my love of jazz and the paranormal and come up with Bucks County Paranormal Investigations.
And started doing videos, video investigations and documentaries, short documentaries on historical locations here in Bucks County that have had great ties to history and paranormal history.
(54:48):
And the reason why that was so important was because a lot of times we would be, for years, we'd play concert halls and we'd be in there.
We'd be like, wow, this place is incredible.
And the guy booking it says, oh yeah.
And by the way, it's haunted.
So we would always have this, like it was always following us.
And I never even asked about it, but it was always following us, following me around, like it's always haunted.
(55:13):
And so I said, well, you know, it'd be great to have a show to where we go investigate and investigate these ghostly claims.
Meanwhile, telling a great story.
And that's what I've done.
Even the intro to my show, it goes, my name is Eric Mantell.
By night, I'm a professional jazz musician, but by even later at night, I investigate the paranormal.
(55:36):
So it's, you know, it's been a lot of fun.
And I'll tell you what, we've been experiencing a lot of really wild stuff.
You know, like I had mentioned to you earlier, a lot of times I'll go into these stories skeptically.
And I'll say, okay, what is really going on here?
Let's look at some science behind this.
(55:59):
What is going on here?
Is every place that people are saying is haunted, is it really haunted?
And we go in, we have some technology that we go in with magnetometers that test the electromagnetic energy.
And some, and we work with spirit mediums and psychics and things like that.
And I'll tell you, the more and more I've been doing this, the more and more I'm believing that there is a thin veil between the here and there.
(56:26):
Because of what we have captured on video.
And not only just with ghosts, but with, I mean, we do it all.
UFOs, Bigfoot, and that we were just out in Wisconsin investigating the beast of Bray Road, which was absolutely one of the most unnerving nights we've ever had where we actually encountered this werewolf-like wolf type creature.
(56:51):
That's walking around on two legs.
And it was just the most craziest thing.
I thought we were going to go out there and just hear a story and not see anything.
We actually encountered it, heard it, and saw the eye shine from this thing.
And it was coming toward us.
So I said to the team, we've got to get out of here.
(57:13):
And the people that are with me on my paranormal journeys are Dave Antonelle, who Dave and I played for years, never knew he liked videotaping as much as I did in shooting, you know, shooting video.
So he's been with me. My buddy Dominic Satell, I went to high school with Dominic, found out later that he is a psychic.
(57:34):
He's a spirit medium, which I never knew about.
And so he's been on a lot of the videos.
He was out in Wisconsin with me.
And then we have Ellen Collins, who's a fan of ours out in Wisconsin, who's on the team.
And then we've also got Karen Luchin, who's a spirit medium, a well-known author.
So all of these people that come into this realm are incredible.
(57:57):
And we're telling these really compelling stories and showing people what they have in their own backyard that they had no idea about.
And it's amazing that people have, it boggles my mind that we have so much here that people don't know about, but we're telling the stories.
And they're like, wow, I never knew that.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't want to know that because they get kind of spooked.
(58:20):
That's the kind of thing that keeps me up all night.
So was the Wisconsin incident your spookiest moment?
Yeah, that was very, very spooky because we had a trifecta of paranormal activity happen that night.
And I do have to say, though, the videos themselves that we do are very, very family friendly.
I want to put that out there.
Well, they're not scary.
(58:41):
They're not demonic or anything like that.
We don't go there.
But what happened in Wisconsin was just unbelievable.
We saw UFO.
It went a solid orb of light when over this field that we were in.
And it's obviously nighttime and it was not a plane.
It's not a meteor or anything like that.
(59:02):
It was just solidly going over us.
It did a 45 degree angle then disappeared.
Then right after that, we heard this ungodly howl that wasn't a wolf.
It wasn't a coyote.
It wasn't a screech howl.
It wasn't a fox.
Nothing like that.
This sounded like a man screaming in the field at this low guttural thing.
(59:25):
And it was just the most...
We all were freaked out.
It was absolutely freakish.
Then a mist came up, a really weird mist just like started coming up from the ground.
And this mist situation has been talked about in the paranormal field.
And what we believed we were probably in or could have most likely been in
(59:46):
was some kind of electromagnetic portal type of energy.
So we're still wrapping our heads around it, John.
It's like, you know, I would be the last one to say, hey, you know, this is...
That's all.
That's nothing.
It was nothing.
But it actually happened.
And it was...
And it was all caught on video.
So where would people go to see your videos?
(01:00:10):
They could go right to our Facebook page.
It's Bucks County Paranormal Investigations on Facebook.
Or go to our YouTube page, same thing, Bucks County Paranormal Investigations.
And the Beast of Bray Road video is like the first one right there.
We've got about 63 or 64 videos we've done over the last couple of years.
Very interesting.
(01:00:31):
So quite a departure from the jazz group for you at this stage in your life.
Yeah.
Well, you know, and that's the thing.
It still allows me to do the jazz, do my music.
You know, and the reason why we're doing these videos is...
And this is how this is developed.
I, in 2017, I was doing a show called Talking Jazz with Eric Montel.
(01:00:55):
It was a TV show bringing on jazz artists and talking about their lives.
And that's still being played.
That's still being played through Princeton Television, which actually just turned into
Central New Jersey Network now.
They've gotten even bigger.
They've a bigger area now.
So I said to the director, I said, "You know, I'd love to do a show about the paranormal
(01:01:19):
and call it, you know, Bucks County Paranormal Investigations."
So he said, "Yeah, let's do it."
So he's been airing me now Saturday nights at 11 o'clock through Central New Jersey Network.
So I'm on Roku TV, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Android TV, all of the streaming services
through Princeton Television.
(01:01:41):
And then Sunday nights up in the Lehigh Valley, I was picked up on Service Electric.
So we're on Sunday nights at 10 o'clock.
And why we're doing this too is we're getting a lot of sponsors from these different areas
that know in there, these people are great.
Judith Harris just became the sponsor of ours, great attorney up in the Lehigh Valley,
(01:02:02):
great patron of the arts.
And they see the value in this because of the paranormal genre itself is so huge.
People want to know why.
People want to know why.
And people want to know what is really going on because I don't care who you are.
Everyone has had a paranormal experience.
(01:02:24):
Absolutely right.
I've had two and I like to think of myself as a fairly regular person,
but I can tell you exactly where the two were and they are unexplainable incidents.
And you can kind of dismiss them if you like, but I saw them.
And so I'm sure we've all seen things that we can't understand.
(01:02:48):
And we throw them away as being a plane or a helicopter or something.
But I think that's exciting.
It's very exciting.
So, oh, it's amazing.
And I think we're in a position now.
I think people are more open-minded to it.
Whereas not 10 years ago, they probably wouldn't be.
But now you've got, look, you've got the government declassifying all the UFO reports.
(01:03:09):
Because yes, this has been happening for the last 60, 70 years.
So I think you have a lot more people open-minded to the fact that they're willing to come up and talk about it.
Absolutely.
Whereas they don't have that stigma of being ridiculed.
And of course, the media now, the social media,
gives so many more people the opportunities to just post their material and talk about it.
(01:03:32):
Oh yeah.
So absolutely.
So if I was to ask you, if there's one song that you would like to play for the rest of your life,
just one, what would it be?
Take five.
Take five, right.
Yeah.
And how would you like to be remembered?
(01:03:54):
Oh man, that's a great question.
I think like all of us want to be remembered, we want to be remembered for making a little difference in the world.
You know, and hopefully my difference in the world was through music and people,
people enjoyed listening to the music and they felt some kind of healing quality from the music
and felt better after hearing the music.
(01:04:17):
Well, I can vouch for that.
I've heard, seen and heard you many times and I always feel better after that.
So, I thank you for that.
And how can people find more about your music on your website and social media, I guess?
Yeah, yeah, ericmintelcortet.com is our website and my Facebook page,
(01:04:38):
Eric Mintel on my Facebook page and then Eric Mintel Cortet also on Facebook.
Instagram, Eric Mintel and I usually post all the time where we're going to be playing next.
This will be out in time for you to be publicized and we'll certainly look to see how we can do that and to come along and see you.
Absolutely.
(01:04:59):
It's always a pleasure seeing you and your lovely wife.
Oh, bless you.
Well, Eric, thank you so much for the time.
It's been wonderful to talk to you and unearth your uniqueness and it certainly is very unique.
And the craft of jazz, which so few people truly understand and you were very honest about some of the things that you feel are right and are not so right about jazz.
So, thank you very much for that.
(01:05:21):
Eric, thank you so much and look forward to seeing you in the cafe again very soon.
Definitely, John. Always give me a call.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for hanging out with our guest in Cafe WW.
You're an extremely valuable part of what Cafe WW is trying to bring to life.
(01:05:42):
Since the first coffee shop opened in Constantinople in 1475, cafes have been valuable places to gain knowledge, share words of wisdom and hang out with good friends.
I hope we can count on you returning as a valued customer.
So, if you're enjoying the conversation, simply click follow on your favorite podcast platform to guarantee you a coveted seat at Cafe WW.
(01:06:07):
Many thanks.
Thanks.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
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