January 15, 2025 • 44 mins
You are in for a treat this week! We are back with my good friend Tyler Merritt today, who has been on the show before. Tyler is a Nashville-based actor, author, musician, activist, cancer survivor, and founder of The Tyler Merritt Project. He’s appeared in shows like Netflix’s Outer Banks, Marvel’s Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and NBC’s Young Rock.
Tyler is also the author of the bestselling memoir I Take My Coffee Black and the children’s book A Door Made for Me. I’m thrilled to have him back on the show today to talk about his new book, This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About.
Tyler is a true light in this world, and this conversation is packed with depth, vulnerability, and lots of laughs. I’m honored to have him back to share more of his story, and I know you’ll walk away with so much from this conversation!
2:26 – Tyler 201
• Tyler’s second book birthday!
• The positive response to his first book
• Acting projects and walking through cancer
• Tyler’s stance on Coca-Cola
11:31 – Finding Peace In The Present
• Tyler’s advice for someone struggling to live in the present
• Living in your life right now
• Navigating fear and anxiety about the future
22:07 – Facing Fear And Living Well
• Why humor has been such a powerful tool for Tyler
• Confronting your fears head on
• Living well and loving fully
32:33 – Learning To Lament
• The importance of true grief
• The legacy Tyler hopes This Changes Everything leaves
• Getting your copy of Tyler’s book
FEATURED QUOTES
“There's a thing I think sometimes that we associate with, oh my gosh, how much time do we have left? What's going to happen after I'm gone? and not really taking the moment to go, I'm still here right now, and I'm so, so radically thankful that that's a thing.”
“If tomorrow, God forbid, I was no longer here, did I love well while I was here? Did I serve well up until the very last moment?”
“There are some things I can't change, right? But while I'm here and I have the tangible moments to do these things now, I can bring as much goodness as I can into the moments that I currently exist in, and that can be my stronghold on the fear that I might see coming against me.”
Learn more about Tyler:
The Tyler Merritt Project
https://thetylermerrittproject.com/
Get your copy of This Changes Everything
https://www.amazon.com/This-Changes-Everything-Surprisingly-Cancer/dp/1546006966
Tyler’s other books
https://thetylermerrittproject.com/book/
Tyler on Social Media:
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/
X
https://x.com/ttmproject
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
my goodness, it is a good day.
Tyler Merritt, welcome back to the show.
Thank you for being here, friend.
Well, that is Molly.
I think we have to deal with the fact that you and I could have our own podcast.
We really could.
And only because I have a hard stop will this not be nine hours.
(00:24):
I agree.
agree.
So for those that are kind of new to my show and haven't been around.
So back in like, I think it was 2022.
So it's been three years since you've been on the show.
You and I recorded we recorded on Valentine's Day.
And and your relationship with a certain someone hat wasn't even public yet.
(00:45):
But I remember you told me about it.
And I was like, I feel like I have like secret insider info.
But we just immediately became friends and you have since become such an encourager to me.
I mean, I still can't thank you enough for the endorsement you wrote for my book.
just, and I just love the work that you do.
It is such an honor to know you through Al Gore's internet and I'm just so, grateful.
(01:13):
So truly thank you for being here.
And when this comes out tomorrow, we're recording on the day that
your book comes out.
And so happy book birthday!
Hey, thank you so much.
You know, because you've written a book and you know what it's like to come out whenyou've been sitting on it for a while, you're just finally like, can we just get it out in
(01:34):
the world?
And so I've been talking in kind of generalities about the book and not trying to givespoilers and all of this, but now it's out there.
When I tell you, Molly, last night at like, excuse me, last night at two o'clock in themorning, my phone started blowing up.
You would have thought,
(01:55):
I had dropped an album like Drake or Kendrick.
Like people were like, yo, your audio book is available for download now.
Bam, it's preloaded now.
And I'm sitting here like, did I just drop an album?
Like what is happening right now?
So yeah, there's some excitement around it.
fun.
Well, it's so funny because even on my my Alexa, I don't want to say it too loud forpeople's like machines.
(02:22):
I know mine actually just like beat back there.
It was like, what are you what are you talking about?
So even on my you know who?
This morning, like, my kids were getting ready.
And it was like, new release audio book from Tyler Merritt.
And I was like, look at him.
He's so fancy with his new release, letting me know in my kitchen.
I mean, that is big time stuff.
(02:45):
Also, today is another very exciting thing.
And this is something I didn't even prepare you for.
So when I have a guest on two times, is becoming my listeners are like, Lord Jesus, Molly.
So this is becoming a little more common, but it is not as common.
You know, after eight and a half years, it happens at this point when I have somebody onmore than once, but it's still pretty rare.
(03:08):
I present you with like an SNL five timer host.
I present you with a metaphorical, an imaginary velvet jacket.
Tyler, I'm presenting you with this velvet jacket and it has my face on it giving you athumbs up.
I receive it and because I'm such a huge SNL fan, I'm only imagining it like an SNLjacket.
(03:35):
You know what I mean?
Like I'm visualizing that.
Yeah, you can see it.
You can see it in your mind's eye.
And it's funny because as I was thinking about this this morning, because I alwayspresented to my 201 guests is that they get the the can I laugh on your shoulder two
timers jacket.
It's again, it's velvet.
It's whatever color you want it to be.
But again, it has my face with two thumbs up.
And but the people who like no SNL or like theater and have a little bit of animagination.
(03:59):
I know that in their minds either like this thing is sick.
Like it looks it looks good.
It looks like
of, I'm gonna be really honest with you.
I kind of feel like you should wait until at least a fourth or something and then actuallydo one.
That's how I really feel.
So I'm not gonna lie, like, I'm kind of at the point that I'm like, I think I want to gothrifting and just start like, finding velvet jackets and then just start like amassing
(04:28):
these velvet jackets.
I'm just I mean, I just need thumbs up from you if you think I should do this.
Yes.
Yeah.
I can add on and eventually get to the magic number.
Exactly, exactly.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Well, we could obviously do bits all day long, but we need to give you to give us theTyler one or excuse me 201.
(04:52):
So what has been going on in the last like what three years since we last met here on theshow?
Gosh, let me say this.
The, Take My Coffee Black is my first book became so much more popular than I could haveever imagined it becoming.
(05:12):
People loved it.
They loved the audio book for I Take My Coffee Black.
The response to that has been, was wonderful, which I'll tell you what's great about thatis I take my coffee.
Okay, if you read my new book.
It sounds like I just, I'm a well traveled person, meaning one minute I'm talking abouttheater, next minute I'm talking about football, next minute I'm talking, you know, so I'm
(05:38):
all over the map with the things that I talk about, but if you have listened to or read,Take My Coffee Black, you understand where that comes from, right?
So, gosh, with that, I've done a number of acting projects.
I'm walking through the cancer that I still have.
(05:58):
And that's a whole nother conversation that is kind of post my new book.
But outside of that, man, I'm just trying to just continue to influence the world in theway that only we can, you know?
And gosh, a lot has changed in three years, but we're still here, right?
(06:20):
Yeah, that's amen.
Amen.
Well, as I told you before, we started recording like I like like Drake or Kendrick or,you know, I'm a I'm a Swifty so or Taylor Swift like you dropped an album.
We are Swifties.
I know we can do a whole conversation about that.
But in my Swifty world, you know, you dropped an album last night.
(06:42):
And so you have been in my ears all day.
Like I'm almost like I'm over halfway through your book.
And it is, I love, love, your audio book.
And so this is actually like my plug as your friend to the listeners, like get Tyler'saudio book, both, because it's just, again, you infuse so much of your personality in it
and the way that you even have audio of your mom and your Australian Asian doctor, whichcracked me up because I could 100 % like picture when you were talking about your doctor,
(07:16):
who is this like five foot.
tall Asian man who has a thick Australian accent.
then the fact that you called him in the audio book and got his...
I mean, it's just, it's perfect.
It's so you.
But there is so much, yes, there's humor.
And I've been chuckling as I was like folding laundry and cleaning kitchen sinks.
But I'm telling you, like there is also so much depth.
(07:38):
And so we are going to just like dive in in this conversation.
And I'm going to ask the hard hitting question.
And that is how did you
just get so brave that you just talked about how Coke is so much better than Pepsi.
How did you even cross that line that you were willing to alienate all of the Pepsi loversand be brilliant like me and only love Coke products?
(08:04):
The funny part about that specific thing is it's a joke in a joke inside a joke.
Like it's me talking about Nightmare on Elm Street, then talking about how it's a movieabout falling asleep and you shouldn't fall asleep and you're probably not falling asleep
because you were drinking a soda that you shouldn't be drinking and that soda happens tobe Pepsi.
(08:28):
And why were you drinking Pepsi?
Like it's such a like a
MISS
dialed in thing.
And then when I get to the Pepsi part, I'm like, but since we're here on Pepsi, why areyou drinking Pepsi?
Like this makes no sense.
It's disgusting.
Coke is the best because it just is.
(08:49):
Well, what's funny is, is like I said, it's only the audio books only about for a fewhours.
And on social media, I've had multiple people just message me and just say, thank you foryour stance on Coca-Cola.
Yeah.
you're doing the Lord's work for the people of God, Tyler.
Okay, so obviously, yes.
And there's another thing too, is just obviously, I'm joking about the hard hittingquestion there.
(09:12):
But you are so like, you and I have so much in common, and you would not realize how mucha six foot two black man with dreads has in common with a five foot two white woman who
lives on a farm.
But we have such similar
senses of humor.
And I just love when you talk about when you're in these really, really dark moments ofgetting this horrible diagnosis, you're in, you're facing death, like in the face, and the
(09:46):
way that you talk about using humor as a bit of a coping mechanism.
And it's I mean, it's just all over this book about you the way you use humor andobviously,
That is a topic that is near and dear to my heart as I wrote an entire memoir about it
Which can I tell you something that we do similar, which.
(10:08):
did first, so I'm not saying you stole it, but we do this.
When you get my hard copy, when you get the hard copy, if you haven't got it yet, you'llsee, I use footnotes the same way you do.
I know, we do, really similar.
Yeah, yeah.
So most a handful of my footnotes are actual real footnotes, but 98 % of them are all justjokes and inside things and other thoughts that I'm having.
(10:34):
And I love that we both do that, which I so thoroughly enjoyed your book, by the way.
That is really kind.
But it really it adds this brevity, this light heartedness to this moment of, of justfeeling the weight of what you were feeling.
And so that's what I really do want to dive right into.
(10:54):
And that is, you know, just in this, you know, this this book is really kind of everythingkind of is undergirded by the story of your diagnosis with cancer and what that
walking through that has taught you.
And I think it's so beautiful how you talk about what it's taught you about time on earth,fear, what it means to lament your faith, so many things.
(11:18):
And so with that, the reality is that you write kind of about how cancer has reshaped thisperspective on time.
And I think that for so many people, especially just
with everything that is going on in the world, especially, mean, we're just as we wererecording this with the wildfires in LA and just, mean, just the every day, if you turn on
(11:41):
the news, it just feels heavy.
So from what you've learned, what advice would you give to somebody who's reallystruggling to kind of live presently, like in the moment right now?
man.
So I think it's really easy when you're faced with something that's either life or death,or it really makes you kind of question how much time you have left to kind of imagine
(12:12):
what you might do.
I was talking to my friend Mike recently and we were talking about how Tim McGraw had thatsong.
go skydiving, I go, you know, and you climb in, I go two point, right.
11 seconds.
Yeah.
Honorable name, Chumanche.
Right, okay.
(12:33):
Okay, all right.
I think that's the only Tim McGraw song I know.
But there's something about the idea of like, you are gonna live like you were dying ifyou find out, you know, that you have so much time or this side or the other.
But what I've learned is that it's not the big, big things that change.
(12:56):
It's the small things.
It's things like,
I was telling this story.
I was with a friend of mine who was standing in a line and they started getting reallyupset that the line was taking so long.
And we were on vacation at the time and I was watching this person get like super upsetabout being in line so long and we're standing there kind of in paradise.
(13:23):
And I found myself going, I don't feel like I have the time.
to be angry about standing in line in paradise.
that's an emotion that I would normally kind of give on a Tuesday that I don't want togive anymore, you know?
(13:47):
Instead, I want to stand here and receive this fresh air that I'm breathing in.
I want to look at the beautiful people that are standing in the line with me.
I want to see if there's an opportunity to spark a conversation that's meaningful withsomeone while we're just waiting.
(14:08):
I want to think about what delicious food I'm going to eat whenever we're out of thisline.
I'm going to appreciate the fact, and this is big, that I'm still here.
There's a thing I think sometimes that we associate with
my gosh, how much time do we have left?
(14:30):
What's going to happen after I'm gone and not really taking the moment to go, I'm stillhere right now.
And I'm so, so radically thankful that that's a thing.
And there are your listeners who are listening right now, who are just casually like, it'sjust another day listening to Molly Stoneman podcast.
(14:51):
I'm having a good time.
I would encourage to say, yo,
whether you are sitting in your car, whether you are on a walk listening on yourheadphones, whether you're listening in your house cleaning.
You're still here.
There's air in your lungs and you are capable.
(15:11):
And as long as we're capable, like let's go get it.
Whatever that get is.
Yeah.
You know, as you were saying that just now, so this is something I've been just kind ofwrestling with in the last, I don't even know.
And I don't, I don't know why.
So I'm turning 40 this year.
And I think part of me has wrestled with, uh, not in like a, I'm not afraid of turning 40or anything like that, but I think as I get closer and closer to the age that my mom was
(15:45):
when she got sick,
that I ha I am legitimately battling some anxiety over like leaving my kids because I knowhow difficult the death of my mom was on me.
And so I have this like fear of leaving my kids without a mom at a young age.
(16:08):
And so I, I often will like play out these scenarios in my head that are not
based in reality.
not based in anything.
you know, they have no truth within them, but I think there is something innately, withinus when we face, you know, just sudden loss, sudden grief, a diagnosis.
(16:31):
and then I've, I've had so many people around me like lose their moms or get diagnosedwith something really scary or just, I think I'm, we're regularly, reminded of the, the
the sanctity of our lives.
And so it's something that I've just been like really like wrestling with and and I'm notsomebody who tends to battle anxiety a lot.
(16:55):
I have in the past and then gone to counseling and like worked through it and now it'sjust something about this age, this time of life where I look at my kids and I'm just like
I don't want to leave them behind like I can't imagine or like
You know, and so I love the way that you just so candidly talk about this, instead ofplaying out in our head these what ifs, we have got to do the thing of like looking at our
(17:23):
life right now and living in the right now because there is absolutely nothing I can doabout tomorrow.
My dad always used to joke like I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
I don't know why getting hit by a bus was like the thing that he always goes to.
just am like, dad, statistically, like how many people are hit by buses?
(17:43):
Like, I guess it happens.
But that's always his go to is like, he's like, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
My dad's 80.
And I'm just like, are you walking in front of buses regularly?
But that's the thing is that, you know, metaphorically, like we get hit by a bus tomorrow,we don't know, but we have to live in the moment in the present now.
And that can feel
(18:05):
difficult for people, especially when you're, when you're battling these very realfeelings.
but that is, yeah, go ahead.
let me say this.
I think that anxiety that you have, especially as you're getting older, is fair, right?
And
acting as if it's not a real thing or somebody just being like, just don't think about it.
(18:26):
Like, that's not fair.
we need to be able, especially as you're getting older, you're hitting a certain decade.
We need to be able to, to, to leave room to feel the things that come along with, gettingolder and with moving forward.
But I would just challenge that any time that you have a moment where you begin to worryabout the thing that's not there.
(18:50):
challenge yourself to go, okay, I'm gonna, if I'm worrying about this thing that I don'tknow that's gonna happen, and I can't see that happen, or this bus that is gonna come
through my front door for some reason, instead, I'm gonna pay attention to the child thatis in front of me, whether good or bad, whatever this child is doing, I'm gonna take a
(19:14):
moment and go, okay, but I'm here right now.
And here's this other just honest reality.
When you are diagnosed with cancer.
You know, most people are just going along with their everyday life and they're livingtheir life and they're just walking like normal.
(19:40):
And then you go into a room with the doctor and then that doctor tells you informationthat forever changes your life from that moment on.
You walked in one way and you walk out another.
And then after you leave that room, your life is now defined.
(20:03):
differently.
Did I just lose you?
Are you still here?
Sorry, I don't know what just happened in my life.
Hold on.
I can't see you.
Sorry.
I don't know what just happened.
Hold on.
Yeah, I can see you.
I don't know where you are, Molly.
I'm right here, Tyler.
(20:24):
I'm right here.
Hold on.
I don't know what happened.
You disappeared on me.
Hmm.
Am I ruining your whole podcast right now?
you're fine.
Now what's happening?
Hold on a second.
Hold on.
(20:45):
I'm trying to see if there's like a setting in Riverside.
I don't know what is going on.
Let's see, are you in the Riverside browser?
I was.
(21:05):
Are you there?
Yeah, I'm still here.
Yeah, I can't see anything on my end that would.
I don't know what happened, homie.
There you go, sorry.
You're back.
You're back.
Anyways, one minute you're here, next minute you're not.
Similar to what just happened in our podcast life.
(21:27):
Yeah.
yeah, exactly.
Well, I think that that actually also kind of segues to a kind of a similar question thatI wanted to ask.
that is, and that's, I alluded to this at the beginning, that you and I both use humor asa, a coping mechanism, a defense mechanism, but there's also like, there's statistics that
(21:48):
I could go all into about what laughter does to our bodies and the healing.
Um, thing that laughter does.
And so there is something actually scientifically positive about using humor in, uh, darkscenarios, you know, a little bit of macabre, um, if you will.
Um, but you just use it in such a beautiful way throughout your book.
(22:09):
When you're talking about both your, your cancer diagnosis, but also when you, when youdive into topics on race and loss and so many things.
And so I wanted you to just kind of share it from your perspective, like
Why has humor for you been such a powerful tool in discussing these really heavy topicslike race and injustice and cancer and all of those things?
Like what, what is it for you?
(22:33):
First of all, just, I'm the worst, man.
Things are just funny to me.
Do you know what I mean?
In the midst of the craziest worst scenario, I tend to just see the humor.
And my problem is trying not to say it.
(22:54):
You know what I mean?
Trying not to say it in the midst of a moment that it shouldn't be said.
That's why I'm sure...
you had class clownness in you too, you know, like, right, right.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, and it's something like that we can't help.
If there's a low hanging fruit joke out there, like we're gonna take it.
(23:16):
it's gonna do I always say to my husband like sometimes like he'll say something and he'lllook at me and be like, don't do it, don't do it.
And then I'll say the joke that I probably shouldn't have said.
And I'll be like, Look, the door was open.
Okay.
It would be rude for me to not walk through the door and say that.
Well, there's a moment in This Changes Everything where I'm sitting in the doctor's officewith my Asian Australian doctor and he's telling me my cancer diagnosis and I am trying to
(23:52):
joke with him, but I have my best friend right there with me, Shannon, and she's literallycutting off my jokes, you know, like,
I'm like, well, did you hear that?
And she's like, no, doctor, we need to see the scan.
And then I'm like, well, did you, and and there's kind of two pieces to it.
(24:16):
Sure, I always find the humor in things.
But I definitely use that humor when I'm afraid.
And in the case of my specific cancer diagnosis, the fear kind of crept up on me.
(24:38):
There's a very specific moment in the book where I realized kind of how serious it is.
I meet my secondary doctor, his name's Dr.
Barakas, and he's my urologist.
you know, and he kind of gives me, you know, he's Scottie Pippen, right?
(24:59):
And yeah.
the Scottie Pippen to your Asian, 500 foot Asian Michael Jordan.
People who are listening are like, what?
I'm like, you gotta listen to the book to find out who is five foot Asian AustralianMichael Jordan.
Right, and the fact that I still to this day know nothing about cricket, but that'sneither here nor there.
But he was the first, that was the first moment when I talked to him, where he's like, thereason why I'm a part of this surgery is because of this, this, this, this, this.
(25:31):
and the fear kind of fully revealed itself and it pulled all the humor out of me.
That's how I can realize that like, even though it's funny, I'm still kind of using it tokind of to protect a little bit.
(25:51):
But in the case of what I was going through, I think there were definitely momentswhere...
I was aware of the fact that I was using humor probably not the best way, you know?
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
I think to one of the things you just said reminded me of how you talk about and wealluded to it is the story of how you're talking about nightmare on Elm Street.
(26:17):
And by the way, thank you for bringing that back up for me as I'm now going to not sleeptonight.
But, you know, and I just loved your, your, your like, you're like, well, well, why didparents in the nineties, the eighties and nineties let us watch this movie?
And it's like, they didn't.
It was that
jacked up kid with the VHS tape.
Yes.
(26:37):
For me, it was both Nightmare on Elm Street and Scream at sleepovers where a kid bustedout those movies and then I was scarred forever.
And so, but one of the things that I had never really thought about and I think because atthe moment I was completely scarred by Nightmare on Elm Street, but the way you articulate
it I think is actually really beautiful.
(26:59):
By you talk about how, and I can't remember her name, but the character who at the endrealizes that
Freddy Krueger's powers are based on fear.
And how when the character, again, forgive me, can't remember her name, when she realizesthat if she just faces her fear, then Freddy Krueger no longer has the power to kill her
(27:21):
in her dreams.
Spoiler alert for everyone.
The movie's been out for a very long time.
So if you haven't seen it, this point...
on you.
That's on you.
on you, okay?
But I think there is something so powerful in that, especially as people of faith who, youwhen we're talking about that there's like an enemy that thrives on our fear and our
(27:45):
insecurity.
And I think when we, that is such a lesson.
And something that you talk about is like when you began to really like face your fearhead on and realize that your, your fear that this cancer and, you're the fear of that
cancer no longer had power over you.
And I think that isn't a lesson that we can all take to so many areas of our lives.
(28:09):
And even me, like I was saying earlier, like as I battle some of these thoughts that gothrough my head and everybody listening, like you've had those moments where you are just
terrified of X, Y, Z, or whatever this thing is in front of you.
And when you realize when you face that fear that there is an enemy that is thriving offof that fear, when you face it, it no longer has power over you.
So can you talk a little bit about that?
(28:30):
Like how that has played out for you of what that looks like in a kind of a practicalsense.
Sure.
I think one of the things that all of us are the most afraid of, I think that we have ahistory of being afraid of is what we don't know, right?
We're afraid of what we can't see or what we don't know or what's around the corner.
(28:54):
So oftentimes when some of my closest friends are going through things or even myself, Iask this question.
Like in the midst of the thing that you're afraid of, what
What is the worst thing that could possibly happen within this scenario?
Right?
So say somebody is, we'll say a work situation, okay?
(29:17):
Say you drop the ball at work.
I'll ask the question, what is the absolute worst thing that can happen in the midst ofthis work scenario?
Is it so bad that you could, you're gonna get a write-up?
You're gonna get a performance improvement program thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And let's imagine that getting fired is the worst thing that could happen to you.
(29:43):
If you were to get fired, then what?
Like, do you have a support system around you that's gonna be able to land on your feet?
Have you thought about updating your resume?
If you land into another job that pays the same or this side or the other, would that bethe worst thing?
And so as soon as you start to like,
(30:03):
rationally begin to go, okay, what's, what is the worst thing in this scenario?
And when it comes to cancer, sadly, the absolute worst thing that could happen is that youlose your life.
Right.
and
(30:28):
When I was younger.
and really kind of new in my faith.
whole idea is
to live as Christ, die as gain, you know, or, you know.
Yeah.
(30:50):
It was easy to say, if I'm being honest, was like, if I die, there's heaven.
But as you get older...
and you live a little bit more life.
(31:11):
I love life.
I love this earth.
I love the people that are on this earth.
I don't have kids, but I have my niece, Zoe, which people will read about as they gofarther into my book.
I have a whole moment on the audio book where I absolutely lose it talking about Zoe, myniece.
(31:35):
I wanna see her go to her first prom.
I want to find out who she becomes.
So when I think about like, what's the worst thing that can happen?
Hmm.
It makes me emotionally even thinking about it.
(31:56):
When I think about what's the worst thing that can happen when it comes to losing yourlife, I think about all the people and the things that I would lose in the midst of that.
But then I think about this.
If tomorrow, God forbid, I was no longer here.
(32:18):
Did I love well while I was here?
Did I serve well up into the very last moment?
And I'm not trying to be all over spiritual by saying like, did I serve the Lord well?
I'm talking a tangible, like, did I make you feel seen, Molly?
(32:38):
Was I a soft place to land for you?
And if I'm able to begin to answer those questions, right?
If I'm begin, if I'm...
beginning to be able to go, okay, let me take action of those things while I'm here.
That's my way of looking fear in the face, right?
And going, there are some things I can't change, but while I'm here and I have thetangible moments to do these things now.
(33:09):
can bring as much goodness as I can into the moments that I currently exist in.
And that can be my stronghold on the fear that I might see coming against me on a lifethat could be short lived, you know?
That's so powerful, Tyler.
(33:29):
I really love that.
And I think it's such a good, like I said, it's such a good reminder for all of us aswe've all faced those feelings, those fears in different ways.
And if we haven't even personally walked through it, like we've walked through it withsomebody.
If you live long enough, like you're going to walk through suffering, you're going to walkthrough pain, you're going to walk through hard times, especially with those that you
(33:51):
love.
And that is just a really beautiful.
reminder.
And also kind of a funny reminder on a side note, because this is what I do.
Do you ever watch This Is Us?
Were you a This Is Us fan?
yes.
So it's basically like Randall and Beth.
Randall and Beth Pearson, Sterling K.
Brown, love him, but they always play that game, worst case scenario, with Randall.
(34:11):
And he would always have to say all the things that were in the worst case scenario.
But it's funny, because my husband and I have then taken that to, because my husband'slike, John's very, he's just.
Like he's with it.
He's very methodical.
He's just like not he doesn't his mind does not spiral out like mine.
just he doesn't and so he helps to bring me down to earth and so he kind of pulls theBeth.
(34:33):
He is the Beth to my I am Randall.
He is Beth.
You know, like, okay, what is the worst thing that could happen right now?
Like, let's play it out.
And I then will like spit out all of the worst case scenarios.
And he'll look at me and he'll go, Wow, okay, that was a whole lot.
That got way worse than I really have.
you know, because it always ends up to be like, then I will be publicly humiliated for allof eternity.
(34:55):
And anyway, but no, I think on a deep, deep level, I really think that that's reallybeautiful of to, again, remind us of our humanity and the moment that we're living in now.
And again, I think that this then even segues to another thing I wanted to ask you about.
And that's, I think you talk about this.
(35:18):
Like I was sobbing while listening to this part.
And you were talking about how we just as a culture in general have done a very poor jobof learning how to lament.
And that it's that very churchy biblical word of grief, of deep grief, and what it lookslike to lament.
(35:40):
well and you tell the story of Emmett Till's mom and that is just the your telling of itis just gut-wrenching and beautiful and hard but also again a beautiful picture of grace
and mercy and lamenting.
And so what for you has lamenting well taught you about processing your own grief and painand then even helping
(36:08):
those, you know, your friends and your family and your life process their grief and pain.
I've learned that I do a really crappy job of, of taking in like the goodness of momentsin my life, you know, like I'll give an example.
there are thousands of people right now that are trying to find a literary agent to puttogether a book to come out to hopefully one day be a published author all over there.
(36:39):
I'm sure there are people listening right now that are going.
This is all nice, but can we talk about how you become an author?
Right?
Like, in here we are both having published books out in my now third book.
and it's out in the world and people are listening to it and it's people can buy it fromstores and all this.
(37:02):
And I, I am going to have to get forced today, probably by Jen and all my friends to juststop and go, can you just enjoy this moment for a second?
Can you just stop and enjoy the moment?
Like look around and look at your life.
Can you, can you just stop for a minute, bro?
(37:24):
And until somebody does that with me, I probably won't, you
That's a trait of mine that sucks.
I can afford to not have that trait.
The trait that I can't afford is to not stop to lament, to really take in what's going onand to be able to look at the hurting, the bad things directly face to face and really
(37:57):
look those things in the eye.
And I've had to learn how to do that, but too many times in our lives,
do crappy things happen to us?
And I'm talking really, really, really, really crappy things.
And what we choose to do is watch that funny movie or sleep, try to sleep it off or, youknow, medicate or drink or do whatever we, need to do versus actually stopping and sitting
(38:33):
in the hurt of that scenario.
Yeah.
But once we're able to do that.
it not only is able to shape and strengthen us, it also is a favor, it's a gift to thepeople around us once we're able to do that on our own, right?
(38:58):
Because when we aren't able to lament and we don't lament well, we begin to have offshootsof really crappy things to the people that are around us.
You know the idea, you've been married, so I'm sure you're married, so I'm sure this hashappened before.
Yeah.
you'll go off on your husband or maybe vice versa, and then you guys both realize it hasnothing to do with them, right?
(39:21):
It's like, I'm sorry.
That's not even, I don't know why.
So this has nothing to do with you.
It's because we have this inability to be able to stop and go, okay, what is this thingthat's killing me?
Have I really looked at it?
Have I taken the moment to sit in the heaviness of it?
(39:47):
let it affect me, and then begin to walk my way out.
And I think that's something that we have to do as people.
And we're horrible at it.
Black people are incredibly horrible at it.
And oftentimes therapy helps with that.
But I think we just all need to be better.
(40:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
man.
Tyler, we're running out of time.
And I don't want to be running out of time, but we are.
But there is one more question that I really wanted to ask you.
And I think that this really dives deep into what we've been talking about.
just, know, we don't writers, we don't just, sometimes we do.
But most of the time, we don't write to just for it to sit in a void.
(40:32):
We write for a reason, for a purpose.
And, you know, with I take my coffee black.
and then your incredible children's book and now this book.
Like you're putting these things in, you're out and you're so vulnerable, you're so rawand you're telling your story in a way to hopefully impact other people and it does.
(40:54):
And so my question for you is what specific impact do you hope that this story, this book,this changes everything?
the legacy, what do you hope it leaves for this generation and even future generations?
So I have a...
I'm going to answer this in a twofold question, okay?
(41:16):
So there's one piece of me that just hopes that...
This is one of those books where people listen to it and they're like, my gosh, you haveto listen to this.
You tell somebody else, you're like, dude, or you start telling people stories out of thethings that I say and go, you have to listen or read this or whatever, right?
(41:40):
Then there's another piece though that there are people that are like you, where I'm amusical theater person.
I love sport.
Like I'm so widely like all over the world.
And I know that there are other people that are out there that get my little jokes aboutlittle things that when I say 525,600 minutes, they don't.
(42:06):
Right?
They don't like it's automatic to you.
You know what I mean?
There are people in my world that will will fight as strong as I will that are still angrythat they cast Russell Crowe as Javert and Les Mis.
You know what I mean?
Like like this book is full of that stuff.
Yeah.
(42:28):
And so with those little things, you're able to find yourself in somebody else's book,right?
But because I also talk about the deep things like cancer and how do we get out of thatand how do we find faith in where we are and how do we live in the moment the best that we
can and all of these kinds of enriching things amongst all this humor, I just hope it alljust lands evenly with somebody so that when they close the book, they exhale, you know,
(42:58):
it's like, yes, I can take this into my soul because I feel it.
If I take my coffee, black was like my stepping stone into
this is who I am and I hope you can take some stories.
This changes everything is my way of saying, hey, take my hand and let's walk together,you know?
And hopefully we can walk together in such a way that it really does impact and change theworld.
(43:25):
I talk very specifically about legacy towards the end of this book.
And I joke about how there was a period of time where I think I wanted like my name on abuilding when I'm gone or something.
But now I just so badly, Molly.
when I'm gone.
(43:46):
I want you even to be able to say.
I know when I spent time with Tyler when I were talking him.
God, I remember how he made me feel.
And if I can make other people feel the way that Tyler made me feel.
(44:09):
then we'll be okay.
Amen.
Tyler, this is so good.
This has been just such a joy, such an honor.
And side note, I'm very bad at math and I don't ever know like number question answers,but I remember one time my son who is eight, he was asking my husband who is very good at
(44:31):
math, how many minutes are in a year?
And I...
took no time Tyler and I was like 525,600.
And my husband looked at me and was like, how do you know that?
I was like, excuse me, I watch rent.
Okay, thank you so much.
(44:52):
right, right, right.
It's also amazing, it's also amazing how much all of us now know about Alexander Hamilton.
Yes.
Okay.
okay.
Real side note.
I gave my daughter tickets to go see Hamilton for Christmas and we went the day afterChristmas.
She's 11 and she was like crying at the, like, I mean, we, she just immediately startedcrying her.
(45:20):
She loved it so much.
And she is officially like, she has a shirt that has the work work.
Like she loves the Skylo sisters so much.
so anyway,
I just thought you would really appreciate that, that how much he knows about AlexanderHamilton now.
my gosh, Tyler, I love you so much.
(45:41):
You're just so wonderful.
Thank you so much for being here.
And congratulations again on this book.
Everybody go get it.
I will have Tyler's info in the show notes.
Thanks for being your friend.
Fantastic, I love you, Molly.
Take care.
Please tell all your people I say hello.
my goodness, it is a good day.
Tyler Merritt, welcome back to the show.
Thank you for being here, friend.
Well, that is Molly.
I think we have to deal with the fact that you and I could have our own podcast.
We really could.
And only because I have a hard stop will this not be nine hours.
(00:24):
I agree.
agree.
So for those that are kind of new to my show and haven't been around.
So back in like, I think it was 2022.
So it's been three years since you've been on the show.
You and I recorded we recorded on Valentine's Day.
And and your relationship with a certain someone hat wasn't even public yet.
(00:45):
But I remember you told me about it.
And I was like, I feel like I have like secret insider info.
But we just immediately became friends and you have since become such an encourager to me.
I mean, I still can't thank you enough for the endorsement you wrote for my book.
just, and I just love the work that you do.
It is such an honor to know you through Al Gore's internet and I'm just so, grateful.
(01:13):
So truly thank you for being here.
And when this comes out tomorrow, we're recording on the day that
your book comes out.
And so happy book birthday!
Hey, thank you so much.
You know, because you've written a book and you know what it's like to come out whenyou've been sitting on it for a while, you're just finally like, can we just get it out in
(01:34):
the world?
And so I've been talking in kind of generalities about the book and not trying to givespoilers and all of this, but now it's out there.
When I tell you, Molly, last night at like, excuse me, last night at two o'clock in themorning, my phone started blowing up.
You would have thought,
(01:55):
I had dropped an album like Drake or Kendrick.
Like people were like, yo, your audio book is available for download now.
Bam, it's preloaded now.
And I'm sitting here like, did I just drop an album?
Like what is happening right now?
So yeah, there's some excitement around it.
fun.
Well, it's so funny because even on my my Alexa, I don't want to say it too loud forpeople's like machines.
(02:22):
I know mine actually just like beat back there.
It was like, what are you what are you talking about?
So even on my you know who?
This morning, like, my kids were getting ready.
And it was like, new release audio book from Tyler Merritt.
And I was like, look at him.
He's so fancy with his new release, letting me know in my kitchen.
I mean, that is big time stuff.
(02:45):
Also, today is another very exciting thing.
And this is something I didn't even prepare you for.
So when I have a guest on two times, is becoming my listeners are like, Lord Jesus, Molly.
So this is becoming a little more common, but it is not as common.
You know, after eight and a half years, it happens at this point when I have somebody onmore than once, but it's still pretty rare.
(03:08):
I present you with like an SNL five timer host.
I present you with a metaphorical, an imaginary velvet jacket.
Tyler, I'm presenting you with this velvet jacket and it has my face on it giving you athumbs up.
I receive it and because I'm such a huge SNL fan, I'm only imagining it like an SNLjacket.
(03:35):
You know what I mean?
Like I'm visualizing that.
Yeah, you can see it.
You can see it in your mind's eye.
And it's funny because as I was thinking about this this morning, because I alwayspresented to my 201 guests is that they get the the can I laugh on your shoulder two
timers jacket.
It's again, it's velvet.
It's whatever color you want it to be.
But again, it has my face with two thumbs up.
And but the people who like no SNL or like theater and have a little bit of animagination.
(03:59):
I know that in their minds either like this thing is sick.
Like it looks it looks good.
It looks like
of, I'm gonna be really honest with you.
I kind of feel like you should wait until at least a fourth or something and then actuallydo one.
That's how I really feel.
So I'm not gonna lie, like, I'm kind of at the point that I'm like, I think I want to gothrifting and just start like, finding velvet jackets and then just start like amassing
(04:28):
these velvet jackets.
I'm just I mean, I just need thumbs up from you if you think I should do this.
Yes.
Yeah.
I can add on and eventually get to the magic number.
Exactly, exactly.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Well, we could obviously do bits all day long, but we need to give you to give us theTyler one or excuse me 201.
(04:52):
So what has been going on in the last like what three years since we last met here on theshow?
Gosh, let me say this.
The, Take My Coffee Black is my first book became so much more popular than I could haveever imagined it becoming.
(05:12):
People loved it.
They loved the audio book for I Take My Coffee Black.
The response to that has been, was wonderful, which I'll tell you what's great about thatis I take my coffee.
Okay, if you read my new book.
It sounds like I just, I'm a well traveled person, meaning one minute I'm talking abouttheater, next minute I'm talking about football, next minute I'm talking, you know, so I'm
(05:38):
all over the map with the things that I talk about, but if you have listened to or read,Take My Coffee Black, you understand where that comes from, right?
So, gosh, with that, I've done a number of acting projects.
I'm walking through the cancer that I still have.
(05:58):
And that's a whole nother conversation that is kind of post my new book.
But outside of that, man, I'm just trying to just continue to influence the world in theway that only we can, you know?
And gosh, a lot has changed in three years, but we're still here, right?
(06:20):
Yeah, that's amen.
Amen.
Well, as I told you before, we started recording like I like like Drake or Kendrick or,you know, I'm a I'm a Swifty so or Taylor Swift like you dropped an album.
We are Swifties.
I know we can do a whole conversation about that.
But in my Swifty world, you know, you dropped an album last night.
(06:42):
And so you have been in my ears all day.
Like I'm almost like I'm over halfway through your book.
And it is, I love, love, your audio book.
And so this is actually like my plug as your friend to the listeners, like get Tyler'saudio book, both, because it's just, again, you infuse so much of your personality in it
and the way that you even have audio of your mom and your Australian Asian doctor, whichcracked me up because I could 100 % like picture when you were talking about your doctor,
(07:16):
who is this like five foot.
tall Asian man who has a thick Australian accent.
then the fact that you called him in the audio book and got his...
I mean, it's just, it's perfect.
It's so you.
But there is so much, yes, there's humor.
And I've been chuckling as I was like folding laundry and cleaning kitchen sinks.
But I'm telling you, like there is also so much depth.
(07:38):
And so we are going to just like dive in in this conversation.
And I'm going to ask the hard hitting question.
And that is how did you
just get so brave that you just talked about how Coke is so much better than Pepsi.
How did you even cross that line that you were willing to alienate all of the Pepsi loversand be brilliant like me and only love Coke products?
(08:04):
The funny part about that specific thing is it's a joke in a joke inside a joke.
Like it's me talking about Nightmare on Elm Street, then talking about how it's a movieabout falling asleep and you shouldn't fall asleep and you're probably not falling asleep
because you were drinking a soda that you shouldn't be drinking and that soda happens tobe Pepsi.
(08:28):
And why were you drinking Pepsi?
Like it's such a like a
MISS
dialed in thing.
And then when I get to the Pepsi part, I'm like, but since we're here on Pepsi, why areyou drinking Pepsi?
Like this makes no sense.
It's disgusting.
Coke is the best because it just is.
(08:49):
Well, what's funny is, is like I said, it's only the audio books only about for a fewhours.
And on social media, I've had multiple people just message me and just say, thank you foryour stance on Coca-Cola.
Yeah.
you're doing the Lord's work for the people of God, Tyler.
Okay, so obviously, yes.
And there's another thing too, is just obviously, I'm joking about the hard hittingquestion there.
(09:12):
But you are so like, you and I have so much in common, and you would not realize how mucha six foot two black man with dreads has in common with a five foot two white woman who
lives on a farm.
But we have such similar
senses of humor.
And I just love when you talk about when you're in these really, really dark moments ofgetting this horrible diagnosis, you're in, you're facing death, like in the face, and the
(09:46):
way that you talk about using humor as a bit of a coping mechanism.
And it's I mean, it's just all over this book about you the way you use humor andobviously,
That is a topic that is near and dear to my heart as I wrote an entire memoir about it
Which can I tell you something that we do similar, which.
(10:08):
did first, so I'm not saying you stole it, but we do this.
When you get my hard copy, when you get the hard copy, if you haven't got it yet, you'llsee, I use footnotes the same way you do.
I know, we do, really similar.
Yeah, yeah.
So most a handful of my footnotes are actual real footnotes, but 98 % of them are all justjokes and inside things and other thoughts that I'm having.
(10:34):
And I love that we both do that, which I so thoroughly enjoyed your book, by the way.
That is really kind.
But it really it adds this brevity, this light heartedness to this moment of, of justfeeling the weight of what you were feeling.
And so that's what I really do want to dive right into.
(10:54):
And that is, you know, just in this, you know, this this book is really kind of everythingkind of is undergirded by the story of your diagnosis with cancer and what that
walking through that has taught you.
And I think it's so beautiful how you talk about what it's taught you about time on earth,fear, what it means to lament your faith, so many things.
(11:18):
And so with that, the reality is that you write kind of about how cancer has reshaped thisperspective on time.
And I think that for so many people, especially just
with everything that is going on in the world, especially, mean, we're just as we wererecording this with the wildfires in LA and just, mean, just the every day, if you turn on
(11:41):
the news, it just feels heavy.
So from what you've learned, what advice would you give to somebody who's reallystruggling to kind of live presently, like in the moment right now?
man.
So I think it's really easy when you're faced with something that's either life or death,or it really makes you kind of question how much time you have left to kind of imagine
(12:12):
what you might do.
I was talking to my friend Mike recently and we were talking about how Tim McGraw had thatsong.
go skydiving, I go, you know, and you climb in, I go two point, right.
11 seconds.
Yeah.
Honorable name, Chumanche.
Right, okay.
(12:33):
Okay, all right.
I think that's the only Tim McGraw song I know.
But there's something about the idea of like, you are gonna live like you were dying ifyou find out, you know, that you have so much time or this side or the other.
But what I've learned is that it's not the big, big things that change.
(12:56):
It's the small things.
It's things like,
I was telling this story.
I was with a friend of mine who was standing in a line and they started getting reallyupset that the line was taking so long.
And we were on vacation at the time and I was watching this person get like super upsetabout being in line so long and we're standing there kind of in paradise.
(13:23):
And I found myself going, I don't feel like I have the time.
to be angry about standing in line in paradise.
that's an emotion that I would normally kind of give on a Tuesday that I don't want togive anymore, you know?
(13:47):
Instead, I want to stand here and receive this fresh air that I'm breathing in.
I want to look at the beautiful people that are standing in the line with me.
I want to see if there's an opportunity to spark a conversation that's meaningful withsomeone while we're just waiting.
(14:08):
I want to think about what delicious food I'm going to eat whenever we're out of thisline.
I'm going to appreciate the fact, and this is big, that I'm still here.
There's a thing I think sometimes that we associate with
my gosh, how much time do we have left?
(14:30):
What's going to happen after I'm gone and not really taking the moment to go, I'm stillhere right now.
And I'm so, so radically thankful that that's a thing.
And there are your listeners who are listening right now, who are just casually like, it'sjust another day listening to Molly Stoneman podcast.
(14:51):
I'm having a good time.
I would encourage to say, yo,
whether you are sitting in your car, whether you are on a walk listening on yourheadphones, whether you're listening in your house cleaning.
You're still here.
There's air in your lungs and you are capable.
(15:11):
And as long as we're capable, like let's go get it.
Whatever that get is.
Yeah.
You know, as you were saying that just now, so this is something I've been just kind ofwrestling with in the last, I don't even know.
And I don't, I don't know why.
So I'm turning 40 this year.
And I think part of me has wrestled with, uh, not in like a, I'm not afraid of turning 40or anything like that, but I think as I get closer and closer to the age that my mom was
(15:45):
when she got sick,
that I ha I am legitimately battling some anxiety over like leaving my kids because I knowhow difficult the death of my mom was on me.
And so I have this like fear of leaving my kids without a mom at a young age.
(16:08):
And so I, I often will like play out these scenarios in my head that are not
based in reality.
not based in anything.
you know, they have no truth within them, but I think there is something innately, withinus when we face, you know, just sudden loss, sudden grief, a diagnosis.
(16:31):
and then I've, I've had so many people around me like lose their moms or get diagnosedwith something really scary or just, I think I'm, we're regularly, reminded of the, the
the sanctity of our lives.
And so it's something that I've just been like really like wrestling with and and I'm notsomebody who tends to battle anxiety a lot.
(16:55):
I have in the past and then gone to counseling and like worked through it and now it'sjust something about this age, this time of life where I look at my kids and I'm just like
I don't want to leave them behind like I can't imagine or like
You know, and so I love the way that you just so candidly talk about this, instead ofplaying out in our head these what ifs, we have got to do the thing of like looking at our
(17:23):
life right now and living in the right now because there is absolutely nothing I can doabout tomorrow.
My dad always used to joke like I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
I don't know why getting hit by a bus was like the thing that he always goes to.
just am like, dad, statistically, like how many people are hit by buses?
(17:43):
Like, I guess it happens.
But that's always his go to is like, he's like, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.
My dad's 80.
And I'm just like, are you walking in front of buses regularly?
But that's the thing is that, you know, metaphorically, like we get hit by a bus tomorrow,we don't know, but we have to live in the moment in the present now.
And that can feel
(18:05):
difficult for people, especially when you're, when you're battling these very realfeelings.
but that is, yeah, go ahead.
let me say this.
I think that anxiety that you have, especially as you're getting older, is fair, right?
And
acting as if it's not a real thing or somebody just being like, just don't think about it.
(18:26):
Like, that's not fair.
we need to be able, especially as you're getting older, you're hitting a certain decade.
We need to be able to, to, to leave room to feel the things that come along with, gettingolder and with moving forward.
But I would just challenge that any time that you have a moment where you begin to worryabout the thing that's not there.
(18:50):
challenge yourself to go, okay, I'm gonna, if I'm worrying about this thing that I don'tknow that's gonna happen, and I can't see that happen, or this bus that is gonna come
through my front door for some reason, instead, I'm gonna pay attention to the child thatis in front of me, whether good or bad, whatever this child is doing, I'm gonna take a
(19:14):
moment and go, okay, but I'm here right now.
And here's this other just honest reality.
When you are diagnosed with cancer.
You know, most people are just going along with their everyday life and they're livingtheir life and they're just walking like normal.
(19:40):
And then you go into a room with the doctor and then that doctor tells you informationthat forever changes your life from that moment on.
You walked in one way and you walk out another.
And then after you leave that room, your life is now defined.
(20:03):
differently.
Did I just lose you?
Are you still here?
Sorry, I don't know what just happened in my life.
Hold on.
I can't see you.
Sorry.
I don't know what just happened.
Hold on.
Yeah, I can see you.
I don't know where you are, Molly.
I'm right here, Tyler.
(20:24):
I'm right here.
Hold on.
I don't know what happened.
You disappeared on me.
Hmm.
Am I ruining your whole podcast right now?
you're fine.
Now what's happening?
Hold on a second.
Hold on.
(20:45):
I'm trying to see if there's like a setting in Riverside.
I don't know what is going on.
Let's see, are you in the Riverside browser?
I was.
(21:05):
Are you there?
Yeah, I'm still here.
Yeah, I can't see anything on my end that would.
I don't know what happened, homie.
There you go, sorry.
You're back.
You're back.
Anyways, one minute you're here, next minute you're not.
Similar to what just happened in our podcast life.
(21:27):
Yeah.
yeah, exactly.
Well, I think that that actually also kind of segues to a kind of a similar question thatI wanted to ask.
that is, and that's, I alluded to this at the beginning, that you and I both use humor asa, a coping mechanism, a defense mechanism, but there's also like, there's statistics that
(21:48):
I could go all into about what laughter does to our bodies and the healing.
Um, thing that laughter does.
And so there is something actually scientifically positive about using humor in, uh, darkscenarios, you know, a little bit of macabre, um, if you will.
Um, but you just use it in such a beautiful way throughout your book.
(22:09):
When you're talking about both your, your cancer diagnosis, but also when you, when youdive into topics on race and loss and so many things.
And so I wanted you to just kind of share it from your perspective, like
Why has humor for you been such a powerful tool in discussing these really heavy topicslike race and injustice and cancer and all of those things?
Like what, what is it for you?
(22:33):
First of all, just, I'm the worst, man.
Things are just funny to me.
Do you know what I mean?
In the midst of the craziest worst scenario, I tend to just see the humor.
And my problem is trying not to say it.
(22:54):
You know what I mean?
Trying not to say it in the midst of a moment that it shouldn't be said.
That's why I'm sure...
you had class clownness in you too, you know, like, right, right.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, and it's something like that we can't help.
If there's a low hanging fruit joke out there, like we're gonna take it.
(23:16):
it's gonna do I always say to my husband like sometimes like he'll say something and he'lllook at me and be like, don't do it, don't do it.
And then I'll say the joke that I probably shouldn't have said.
And I'll be like, Look, the door was open.
Okay.
It would be rude for me to not walk through the door and say that.
Well, there's a moment in This Changes Everything where I'm sitting in the doctor's officewith my Asian Australian doctor and he's telling me my cancer diagnosis and I am trying to
(23:52):
joke with him, but I have my best friend right there with me, Shannon, and she's literallycutting off my jokes, you know, like,
I'm like, well, did you hear that?
And she's like, no, doctor, we need to see the scan.
And then I'm like, well, did you, and and there's kind of two pieces to it.
(24:16):
Sure, I always find the humor in things.
But I definitely use that humor when I'm afraid.
And in the case of my specific cancer diagnosis, the fear kind of crept up on me.
(24:38):
There's a very specific moment in the book where I realized kind of how serious it is.
I meet my secondary doctor, his name's Dr.
Barakas, and he's my urologist.
you know, and he kind of gives me, you know, he's Scottie Pippen, right?
(24:59):
And yeah.
the Scottie Pippen to your Asian, 500 foot Asian Michael Jordan.
People who are listening are like, what?
I'm like, you gotta listen to the book to find out who is five foot Asian AustralianMichael Jordan.
Right, and the fact that I still to this day know nothing about cricket, but that'sneither here nor there.
But he was the first, that was the first moment when I talked to him, where he's like, thereason why I'm a part of this surgery is because of this, this, this, this, this.
(25:31):
and the fear kind of fully revealed itself and it pulled all the humor out of me.
That's how I can realize that like, even though it's funny, I'm still kind of using it tokind of to protect a little bit.
(25:51):
But in the case of what I was going through, I think there were definitely momentswhere...
I was aware of the fact that I was using humor probably not the best way, you know?
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
I think to one of the things you just said reminded me of how you talk about and wealluded to it is the story of how you're talking about nightmare on Elm Street.
(26:17):
And by the way, thank you for bringing that back up for me as I'm now going to not sleeptonight.
But, you know, and I just loved your, your, your like, you're like, well, well, why didparents in the nineties, the eighties and nineties let us watch this movie?
And it's like, they didn't.
It was that
jacked up kid with the VHS tape.
Yes.
(26:37):
For me, it was both Nightmare on Elm Street and Scream at sleepovers where a kid bustedout those movies and then I was scarred forever.
And so, but one of the things that I had never really thought about and I think because atthe moment I was completely scarred by Nightmare on Elm Street, but the way you articulate
it I think is actually really beautiful.
(26:59):
By you talk about how, and I can't remember her name, but the character who at the endrealizes that
Freddy Krueger's powers are based on fear.
And how when the character, again, forgive me, can't remember her name, when she realizesthat if she just faces her fear, then Freddy Krueger no longer has the power to kill her
(27:21):
in her dreams.
Spoiler alert for everyone.
The movie's been out for a very long time.
So if you haven't seen it, this point...
on you.
That's on you.
on you, okay?
But I think there is something so powerful in that, especially as people of faith who, youwhen we're talking about that there's like an enemy that thrives on our fear and our
(27:45):
insecurity.
And I think when we, that is such a lesson.
And something that you talk about is like when you began to really like face your fearhead on and realize that your, your fear that this cancer and, you're the fear of that
cancer no longer had power over you.
And I think that isn't a lesson that we can all take to so many areas of our lives.
(28:09):
And even me, like I was saying earlier, like as I battle some of these thoughts that gothrough my head and everybody listening, like you've had those moments where you are just
terrified of X, Y, Z, or whatever this thing is in front of you.
And when you realize when you face that fear that there is an enemy that is thriving offof that fear, when you face it, it no longer has power over you.
So can you talk a little bit about that?
(28:30):
Like how that has played out for you of what that looks like in a kind of a practicalsense.
Sure.
I think one of the things that all of us are the most afraid of, I think that we have ahistory of being afraid of is what we don't know, right?
We're afraid of what we can't see or what we don't know or what's around the corner.
(28:54):
So oftentimes when some of my closest friends are going through things or even myself, Iask this question.
Like in the midst of the thing that you're afraid of, what
What is the worst thing that could possibly happen within this scenario?
Right?
So say somebody is, we'll say a work situation, okay?
(29:17):
Say you drop the ball at work.
I'll ask the question, what is the absolute worst thing that can happen in the midst ofthis work scenario?
Is it so bad that you could, you're gonna get a write-up?
You're gonna get a performance improvement program thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And let's imagine that getting fired is the worst thing that could happen to you.
(29:43):
If you were to get fired, then what?
Like, do you have a support system around you that's gonna be able to land on your feet?
Have you thought about updating your resume?
If you land into another job that pays the same or this side or the other, would that bethe worst thing?
And so as soon as you start to like,
(30:03):
rationally begin to go, okay, what's, what is the worst thing in this scenario?
And when it comes to cancer, sadly, the absolute worst thing that could happen is that youlose your life.
Right.
and
(30:28):
When I was younger.
and really kind of new in my faith.
whole idea is
to live as Christ, die as gain, you know, or, you know.
Yeah.
(30:50):
It was easy to say, if I'm being honest, was like, if I die, there's heaven.
But as you get older...
and you live a little bit more life.
(31:11):
I love life.
I love this earth.
I love the people that are on this earth.
I don't have kids, but I have my niece, Zoe, which people will read about as they gofarther into my book.
I have a whole moment on the audio book where I absolutely lose it talking about Zoe, myniece.
(31:35):
I wanna see her go to her first prom.
I want to find out who she becomes.
So when I think about like, what's the worst thing that can happen?
Hmm.
It makes me emotionally even thinking about it.
(31:56):
When I think about what's the worst thing that can happen when it comes to losing yourlife, I think about all the people and the things that I would lose in the midst of that.
But then I think about this.
If tomorrow, God forbid, I was no longer here.
(32:18):
Did I love well while I was here?
Did I serve well up into the very last moment?
And I'm not trying to be all over spiritual by saying like, did I serve the Lord well?
I'm talking a tangible, like, did I make you feel seen, Molly?
(32:38):
Was I a soft place to land for you?
And if I'm able to begin to answer those questions, right?
If I'm begin, if I'm...
beginning to be able to go, okay, let me take action of those things while I'm here.
That's my way of looking fear in the face, right?
And going, there are some things I can't change, but while I'm here and I have thetangible moments to do these things now.
(33:09):
can bring as much goodness as I can into the moments that I currently exist in.
And that can be my stronghold on the fear that I might see coming against me on a lifethat could be short lived, you know?
That's so powerful, Tyler.
(33:29):
I really love that.
And I think it's such a good, like I said, it's such a good reminder for all of us aswe've all faced those feelings, those fears in different ways.
And if we haven't even personally walked through it, like we've walked through it withsomebody.
If you live long enough, like you're going to walk through suffering, you're going to walkthrough pain, you're going to walk through hard times, especially with those that you
(33:51):
love.
And that is just a really beautiful.
reminder.
And also kind of a funny reminder on a side note, because this is what I do.
Do you ever watch This Is Us?
Were you a This Is Us fan?
yes.
So it's basically like Randall and Beth.
Randall and Beth Pearson, Sterling K.
Brown, love him, but they always play that game, worst case scenario, with Randall.
(34:11):
And he would always have to say all the things that were in the worst case scenario.
But it's funny, because my husband and I have then taken that to, because my husband'slike, John's very, he's just.
Like he's with it.
He's very methodical.
He's just like not he doesn't his mind does not spiral out like mine.
just he doesn't and so he helps to bring me down to earth and so he kind of pulls theBeth.
(34:33):
He is the Beth to my I am Randall.
He is Beth.
You know, like, okay, what is the worst thing that could happen right now?
Like, let's play it out.
And I then will like spit out all of the worst case scenarios.
And he'll look at me and he'll go, Wow, okay, that was a whole lot.
That got way worse than I really have.
you know, because it always ends up to be like, then I will be publicly humiliated for allof eternity.
(34:55):
And anyway, but no, I think on a deep, deep level, I really think that that's reallybeautiful of to, again, remind us of our humanity and the moment that we're living in now.
And again, I think that this then even segues to another thing I wanted to ask you about.
And that's, I think you talk about this.
(35:18):
Like I was sobbing while listening to this part.
And you were talking about how we just as a culture in general have done a very poor jobof learning how to lament.
And that it's that very churchy biblical word of grief, of deep grief, and what it lookslike to lament.
(35:40):
well and you tell the story of Emmett Till's mom and that is just the your telling of itis just gut-wrenching and beautiful and hard but also again a beautiful picture of grace
and mercy and lamenting.
And so what for you has lamenting well taught you about processing your own grief and painand then even helping
(36:08):
those, you know, your friends and your family and your life process their grief and pain.
I've learned that I do a really crappy job of, of taking in like the goodness of momentsin my life, you know, like I'll give an example.
there are thousands of people right now that are trying to find a literary agent to puttogether a book to come out to hopefully one day be a published author all over there.
(36:39):
I'm sure there are people listening right now that are going.
This is all nice, but can we talk about how you become an author?
Right?
Like, in here we are both having published books out in my now third book.
and it's out in the world and people are listening to it and it's people can buy it fromstores and all this.
(37:02):
And I, I am going to have to get forced today, probably by Jen and all my friends to juststop and go, can you just enjoy this moment for a second?
Can you just stop and enjoy the moment?
Like look around and look at your life.
Can you, can you just stop for a minute, bro?
(37:24):
And until somebody does that with me, I probably won't, you
That's a trait of mine that sucks.
I can afford to not have that trait.
The trait that I can't afford is to not stop to lament, to really take in what's going onand to be able to look at the hurting, the bad things directly face to face and really
(37:57):
look those things in the eye.
And I've had to learn how to do that, but too many times in our lives,
do crappy things happen to us?
And I'm talking really, really, really, really crappy things.
And what we choose to do is watch that funny movie or sleep, try to sleep it off or, youknow, medicate or drink or do whatever we, need to do versus actually stopping and sitting
(38:33):
in the hurt of that scenario.
Yeah.
But once we're able to do that.
it not only is able to shape and strengthen us, it also is a favor, it's a gift to thepeople around us once we're able to do that on our own, right?
(38:58):
Because when we aren't able to lament and we don't lament well, we begin to have offshootsof really crappy things to the people that are around us.
You know the idea, you've been married, so I'm sure you're married, so I'm sure this hashappened before.
Yeah.
you'll go off on your husband or maybe vice versa, and then you guys both realize it hasnothing to do with them, right?
(39:21):
It's like, I'm sorry.
That's not even, I don't know why.
So this has nothing to do with you.
It's because we have this inability to be able to stop and go, okay, what is this thingthat's killing me?
Have I really looked at it?
Have I taken the moment to sit in the heaviness of it?
(39:47):
let it affect me, and then begin to walk my way out.
And I think that's something that we have to do as people.
And we're horrible at it.
Black people are incredibly horrible at it.
And oftentimes therapy helps with that.
But I think we just all need to be better.
(40:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
man.
Tyler, we're running out of time.
And I don't want to be running out of time, but we are.
But there is one more question that I really wanted to ask you.
And I think that this really dives deep into what we've been talking about.
just, know, we don't writers, we don't just, sometimes we do.
But most of the time, we don't write to just for it to sit in a void.
(40:32):
We write for a reason, for a purpose.
And, you know, with I take my coffee black.
and then your incredible children's book and now this book.
Like you're putting these things in, you're out and you're so vulnerable, you're so rawand you're telling your story in a way to hopefully impact other people and it does.
(40:54):
And so my question for you is what specific impact do you hope that this story, this book,this changes everything?
the legacy, what do you hope it leaves for this generation and even future generations?
So I have a...
I'm going to answer this in a twofold question, okay?
(41:16):
So there's one piece of me that just hopes that...
This is one of those books where people listen to it and they're like, my gosh, you haveto listen to this.
You tell somebody else, you're like, dude, or you start telling people stories out of thethings that I say and go, you have to listen or read this or whatever, right?
(41:40):
Then there's another piece though that there are people that are like you, where I'm amusical theater person.
I love sport.
Like I'm so widely like all over the world.
And I know that there are other people that are out there that get my little jokes aboutlittle things that when I say 525,600 minutes, they don't.
(42:06):
Right?
They don't like it's automatic to you.
You know what I mean?
There are people in my world that will will fight as strong as I will that are still angrythat they cast Russell Crowe as Javert and Les Mis.
You know what I mean?
Like like this book is full of that stuff.
Yeah.
(42:28):
And so with those little things, you're able to find yourself in somebody else's book,right?
But because I also talk about the deep things like cancer and how do we get out of thatand how do we find faith in where we are and how do we live in the moment the best that we
can and all of these kinds of enriching things amongst all this humor, I just hope it alljust lands evenly with somebody so that when they close the book, they exhale, you know,
(42:58):
it's like, yes, I can take this into my soul because I feel it.
If I take my coffee, black was like my stepping stone into
this is who I am and I hope you can take some stories.
This changes everything is my way of saying, hey, take my hand and let's walk together,you know?
And hopefully we can walk together in such a way that it really does impact and change theworld.
(43:25):
I talk very specifically about legacy towards the end of this book.
And I joke about how there was a period of time where I think I wanted like my name on abuilding when I'm gone or something.
But now I just so badly, Molly.
when I'm gone.
(43:46):
I want you even to be able to say.
I know when I spent time with Tyler when I were talking him.
God, I remember how he made me feel.
And if I can make other people feel the way that Tyler made me feel.
(44:09):
then we'll be okay.
Amen.
Tyler, this is so good.
This has been just such a joy, such an honor.
And side note, I'm very bad at math and I don't ever know like number question answers,but I remember one time my son who is eight, he was asking my husband who is very good at
(44:31):
math, how many minutes are in a year?
And I...
took no time Tyler and I was like 525,600.
And my husband looked at me and was like, how do you know that?
I was like, excuse me, I watch rent.
Okay, thank you so much.
(44:52):
right, right, right.
It's also amazing, it's also amazing how much all of us now know about Alexander Hamilton.
Yes.
Okay.
okay.
Real side note.
I gave my daughter tickets to go see Hamilton for Christmas and we went the day afterChristmas.
She's 11 and she was like crying at the, like, I mean, we, she just immediately startedcrying her.
(45:20):
She loved it so much.
And she is officially like, she has a shirt that has the work work.
Like she loves the Skylo sisters so much.
so anyway,
I just thought you would really appreciate that, that how much he knows about AlexanderHamilton now.
my gosh, Tyler, I love you so much.
(45:41):
You're just so wonderful.
Thank you so much for being here.
And congratulations again on this book.
Everybody go get it.
I will have Tyler's info in the show notes.
Thanks for being your friend.
Fantastic, I love you, Molly.
Take care.
Please tell all your people I say hello.
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