February 12, 2025 • 47 mins
This week, I’m joined by Amy Senter, a former teacher and artist with a passion for making the Bible accessible to everyone. After struggling to understand Scripture herself, Amy used her background in education and art to create tools that simplify Bible study for all ages and learning styles. Her popular Books of the Bible cheat sheets, designed with visual learners and those with ADHD or dyslexia in mind, are now sold in over 50 countries.
Amy’s journey has not been without challenges. After receiving a late-stage Lyme Disease diagnosis, she found herself questioning her faith and purpose. But through this challenging season, Amy's relationship with God deepened, and she rediscovered her passion for Bible study. Her story is a powerful reminder of how God can bring purpose and growth even through our most difficult circumstances.
I really enjoyed this conversation and know it will inspire you, so let’s dive in!
1:43 – Amy 101
• Growing up in Northen Virginia
• A wife and mom living in Texas
• Transitioning from teaching to being a stay-at-home mom
• Getting sick and rediscovering a love for art
12:26 – Finding Purpose In The Unexpected
• Navigating the identity shifts of adulthood
• Letting go of external expectations
• Amy’s journey to teaching and sharing through art
• Taking the next step
20:20 – The Importance of Bible Literacy
• The decline of Biblical literacy
• The role teaching and curriculum play in comprehension
• The danger of only relying on secondary sources
• Reading and discerning the Bible yourself
35:12 – You Are Not Alone
• Being diagnosed with Lyme disease
• The physical, emotional and spiritual toll of this sickness
• How Amy is doing now
• A deeper understanding of God’s presence in suffering
• Connecting with Amy
FEATURED QUOTES
“So many people are constantly like, what's my purpose, what's my calling, what's my next step? And I've tried to constantly encourage people [that] you may not know until you've already gotten there.”
“I thought all this stuff I worked so hard for was a waste, and then it came back and served such a different and wonderful purpose. And I didn't see it coming at all.”
“It's so important to know biblical literacy, because that's how you discern things.”
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES OR LINKS THAT NEED TO BE INCLUDED IN POST
Learn more about Amy:
https://amysenter.com/about/?srsltid=AfmBOooEHBBJ3KnlYETp6Ab09rdTjiKbFzB8CK1A6X7cXZhqG4h-_9-T
Amy on Socials:
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/senteramy
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/amy.senter.intentional.living
Pinterest:
https://www.facebook.com/amy.senter.intentional.living
YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@amysenter
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@senteramy
Amy’s Etsy Shop:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/shopamysenter
Connect with me:
http://www.stillbeingmolly.com
http://instagram.com/stillbeingmolly
http://instagram.com/canilaughpod
http://twitter.com/stillbeingmolly
http://facebook.com/stillbeingmolly
http://facebook.com/canilaughpod
http://tiktok.com/@stillbeingmolly
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
man.
Welcome to the show.
Amy center.
Amy, thank you so much for being here.
Thanks for having me, I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
This has been on our calendar for like a long time.
Like we had to reschedule a few times.
I mean, it's been so this is like, this is like, it's been a long time coming.
(00:23):
But okay, sorry, I am gonna have to sing a Taylor Swift song.
it's been a long time coming.
And so I'm just very grateful to finally have you here.
So we're not gonna waste any time.
and I'm gonna have you give us the Amy 101.
So tell us who you are, what you do, and how you got to where you are.
Okay, well, I am, I've recently found out we grew up like right next to each other.
(00:48):
Yes, which is like real fun.
both came from Northern Virginia and did you ever go to the...
You grew up in Sterling.
Yeah, I grew up in Sterling and I think you just said on a recent podcast that you turn 40or about to turn 40.
I just turned 40 last year.
Okay, so like what year did graduate high school?
2002.
(01:10):
Okay, so you're a year ahead of me in high school.
I love this.
Did you ever like, I just am like, we had to have like run into each other at something.
each other, but surely we were at the Herndon Festival getting down with the local bandsand...
100 % we were both at the Herndon Festival.
Yeah, I lived in walking distance of the Herndon Festival.
(01:33):
So everybody would always like park at our house.
And then we would walk.
Did you ever eat at the tortilla factory?
Yeah, Yes.
Okay, so the tortilla.
can we just have a moment?
Okay, everyone, you just get to listen to Amy.
but I like that you know all the places that I know.
who didn't know the tortilla factory?
(01:55):
May it rest in peace.
every Saturday?
absolutely.
Yeah
So I was still in my kid'sness.
was like, they're like, what did you do when you were a kid?
And I was like, oh, like either Friday or Saturday night, we would go to the bowling alleybecause that was like, that was what people did.
(02:16):
I mean, I'm just, oh my.
came up with the, what do you call it?
Like the nighttime, like it's like a nightclub.
Yes.
And you like felt so cool.
And they like dropped the beat and the lights.
And it was like, I'm in high school.
I'm so cool at the bowling alley.
yes.
And what about rest in town center?
Do you get a rest in town center?
(02:37):
Okay.
my family out there and we go there ice skating every Christmas and yes all the samethings.
This is awesome
on.
Okay, so Amy, so I worked one of my first jobs in high school was I was a skate guard atthe Reston Town Center.
Wait, it gets better.
it gets better.
So I was a skate guard at the Reston Town Center ice skating rink.
(03:00):
When I got the job, I did not know how to ice skate.
I got but my friend, my friend worked there and they were like, we need skate guards and Iwas like, sure.
So I got a job as a skate guard at the Reston Town Center skating rink.
I mean, I very quickly like learned how to skate.
You know, like the people that work there that skate around and like help people who havefallen.
(03:25):
Yes, and I didn't know how to skate.
you had to fall to get to them.
also, at 16 years old, drove the Zamboni.
Like who, who thought this was a good idea to allow a 16 year old to drive the Zamboni toclean the ice?
Yeah, like the big, that big thing.
(03:48):
They needed somebody to do it.
And I had, I had really a lot of driving experience.
It's a long story.
And I was like, I think I can do it.
And so my boss was like,
you've got one shot, like don't screw this up.
And I ended up doing a great job.
And so then my boss was like, all right, you get to drive the Zamboni now I was likewinning.
(04:08):
But then Amy, it gets better.
Okay.
So then, you know how every Christmas like it was a big deal, like they would do the bigChristmas parade and then Santa would light the Christmas tree and then you could get
pictures with Santa at the skating rink in Reston Town Center.
Well,
I guess like the guy who had usually been Santa, like, I don't know what happened.
(04:31):
There was some sort of like, hullabaloo and that Santa ended up being a bad Santa orsomething.
And so the rest, so the rest in town center Santa from the years of like 1999 to 2001, Ithink maybe those years, it would not have been 2002, but definitely 99 to 2001 was my
(04:55):
father.
That's awesome!
of themselves with Santa from the Reston Town Center Santa in 1999 to 2001, that is mydad.
So there you go.
I did, but I think we went to the Dollis Town Center Mall for our Santa picks.
(05:15):
man, get blimpy.
man, the food court.
Okay, we are reminiscing.
We could do this the entire time.
This is really fun.
And again, I really feel like yes, this is the most 90s like, my gosh, what did we do?
We went to the bowling alley, we went and we walked around the mall.
We went to the Reston Town Center skating rink.
Kids these days don't even know Amy.
(05:37):
They don't even know.
my gosh.
of Base came on the, at the roller skating rink.
It was like the best day of your life.
The best day ever.
my gosh.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm convinced that the fact that we are similar in age and from the same area, we had tohave run into each other.
What if we're in like the background?
(05:59):
You probably did.
You probably did.
I love this so much.
though, so like, whose car is this?
It's mine.
love it.
okay.
Well, now that we've sufficiently discussed where we're from, and I interrupted you duringyour one-on-one.
So let's get back to it.
I love it.
(06:20):
So I grew up in a suburb of DC, but I went to school at ACU as a Christian college inTexas.
And that's where I was planning on graduating, coming home, but I met my husband and hewas like, you know how Texas people are, they don't leave.
So we're here and he was a country boy, but my compromise was we have to live in the city.
(06:44):
So we're in the city.
in Texas, but I love it here.
I wouldn't go back now, but I saw a family there.
So we visit, but we're we've been married.
I got married at 21, so we're coming up on 20 years of marriage was just insane.
And then we have a son and a daughter, 13 and 10.
(07:05):
What this is like life is crazy.
We're talking about them going into middle school and high school next year.
And so that's blowing my mind.
But anyways.
So I went to school to become an art teacher, got to college and realized everybody'sreally good and got really intimidated and became a regular elementary teacher instead.
(07:28):
And so basically I was kind of discouraged in from some of my professors that it may bethis wasn't my career that I should be choosing.
So that really kind of killed my artistic dream.
They were real sweet about it, but it was more of like, wanted to, I didn't want to giveup on my dream of teaching.
(07:53):
So I chose teaching over like going to graphic design or whatever.
But I just kind of lost that passion to teach other people how to draw and didn't feelconfident in my ability anymore.
And so that really stuck because I stopped doing art for so long.
And I ended up
I was a teacher.
loved it.
was an elementary school teacher.
And of course I could do stick figures and my kids thought I was the coolest.
(08:16):
I was so good at drawing.
And so my seven year olds really helped me with that self-esteem in that area.
But when I got pregnant, I wanted to be a stay at home mom.
So I was stay at home mom after a couple of years and I was going to go back to work whenthe kids went back to school and ended up getting really sick.
(08:36):
And I can tell you more about that story another time, but
I ended up getting really sick and in this healing process, I kind of discovered my, thejoy of art again.
And so since the kids have been back at school, I actually haven't gone back to teaching.
I created this whole business where I kind of use those lessons I've learned of how thattime in my life grew my faith and then how I use my learning skills, styles, and my art
(09:05):
background and my education background to start.
sharing with people what I was teaching myself, basically.
I was taking these notes and showing people, hey, my faith is really struggling withwhat's going on.
this is what I'm learning.
Just wanted to share it.
And it started resonating with so many people that years later now I've got a full-fledgedbusiness drawing stick figures, teaching people the Bible.
(09:29):
And I love it.
And you can see now I've got my art everywhere.
And it's just one of those things that
came with time for me to figure out what I wanted to do.
And I love what I do and I'm able to kind of use all those talents and those people andthose places that God's put in my path to do full-time business now.
(09:50):
No, I love that.
I love stories like that where you, you go to college or you, know, are entering kind ofa, you know, young adulthood with this idea of like, this is this thing that I really love
to do.
And I feel called to do.
And for whatever reason, a door closes for that thing.
then when years later, God's like, I didn't give you those skills for nothing.
(10:15):
I just didn't want you to use them that way.
Absolutely.
And it's interesting because like I relate so much to that, like with all of my years oftraining in comedy and doing, you know, kind of stuff in the, you know, in the comedy
world and getting just trained in public speaking and all that kind of stuff that now Ilove to teach the Bible and I love to get the opportunity to preach or to teach in various
(10:44):
fashions.
And so it's like, no, I'm not doing comedy, but like,
the skills that I developed over those years in how to tell a story and how to, you know,how to paint a visual picture for people.
I mean, all of those skills in public speaking and comedy and improvisation have served mevery well.
(11:06):
And when it comes to when you're standing before people and you're holding the mostimportant thing in your hand, which is the Bible, and you're trying to teach it to people
in a way that they understand and relate to.
and so I love that, that God just took your love and your passion for art and used it insuch a different way.
so I want to kind of dig into that a little bit is that, you know, obviously this issomething that a lot of people relate to, especially those that might be in our age
(11:36):
category and sort of that, like, I don't want to say midlife because I don't think we'remidlife.
people might call us midlife.
But people in there, you know, especially as you've transitioned from young adulthood intofull-fledged adulthood, whether you're in your late 20s or in your 30s or in your 40s or
(12:01):
even in your 50s and 60s, and you kind of are in this, I don't know, limbo or this placeof you're not really sure what your calling is, what your, you know, how you're supposed
to use your
skills, especially if you're a Christian and you're trying to figure out like, how do Iuse my passion or my, you know, my, how I am really good at spreadsheets or whatever it
(12:28):
is, like, how do I use this for the glory of God, like, walk us through that process ofhow you kind of came to the realization that, your love of art and your skills in that
area were not lost.
They were they were to be used for something.
Yeah, and I think definitely something I can reflect on now is like, I feel like thiswhole last year of turning 40, I didn't really dread it like people do.
(12:57):
It was just kind of like, okay, I'm 40, whatever.
But when I finally turned it, it was almost like, feel comfortable here.
Like you're past the 20 year old of like the insecurity of everybody's opinion and tryingto find people to
date and make like be yourself at the same time, but impress other people.
(13:19):
And it's just a lot of news.
You're trying a new job, all that insecurity.
And then my thirties, I had that marriage and career established and then I became a mom.
And that was a whole nother world of insecurities and fears and things like that.
And so it was also like, I was trying to figure out what do I do where I'm not just a mom.
(13:43):
And know so many people relate to that.
So I like an Etsy shop.
And then I was like, I'll take a writing course and then I'll do these painting classesand I'll do, you know, but I was just kind of like, I had no direction.
It was just kind of like, I've just felt very lost.
And I felt like I had no energy besides being a mom, you know.
(14:03):
And with good reason, little kids are a lot of work.
And so as I got older, I kind of started realizing, and then I dealt with health issues.
It kind of puts your priorities.
in their place of what's important.
And my faith was important.
Passing that legacy onto my kids so that they shared this faith too was important.
(14:25):
And then it was like, well, how do I dig?
How do I connect to God?
And so all of the, do I make money?
How do I help support or how do I help support the family?
How do I, all that kind of like went to the side and was like, I just need to work on myrelationship with God.
because I was such a low point in my life with health.
And so when I kind of stripped away all the expectations, like what other people think ofme and what am I, how am going to make money and how am going to adjust all that?
(14:54):
And it was just, you're allowed to sit here and just read your Bible.
And then it was like, well, now I want to read my Bible and understand it.
And before it was just like, you need to read your Bible and pray more, or you need to dothis study because that's what we started in class or it was,
for the first time where I was like, wanna open this and I wanna understand it and I wannaread it.
(15:17):
And it had nothing to do with any of the skills I had built on.
And so when I started reading it, I was highlighting and color coding and drawing thingsout and writing in journals and like, I see this word over and over and over again.
What is the connections I'm making?
And I had been blogging kind of my health struggles and started sharing, hey, I just amreally wanting to
(15:41):
own my faith and I've never understood how the Bible fit together.
It's out of chronological order, like it's grouped by genres.
And I just figured out mapping out the chronological order so I can read it in order.
And here's a little cheat sheet I made and like took a screenshot of it.
And like people started commenting on it like crazy.
And I was kind of embarrassed when I put it up like, duh, everybody probably is like,cute.
(16:04):
You just figured that out.
And everybody was like,
I didn't know it wasn't in chronological order or, this is so helpful if I'd had thisso-and-so and I just realized all those little, and it was like in my doodles, sorry, this
is just for me.
know, it's just like Moses with a stick figure, you know?
And so there was no expectation.
(16:24):
It was just, I was just talking to people and sharing my story and this happened to bepart of my story.
And all of a sudden it was like, there's a whole need for people to understand this too.
It's not just me.
And it was, I was embarrassed about it because I'd grown up in the church my entire life.
I'd gone to a Christian, I mean, I've been in youth group, I went to all this stuff.
(16:47):
I went to a Christian college, I took Bible classes.
And here I am 35 years old and I'm still like, I know the story of Jonah, but I have noidea how he fits in with anything else.
Like, it's just like a collection of fairy tales to me almost.
And I was like, how do I make it real?
Like if I know,
the Roman Empire existed in school.
(17:08):
talked about it and I think that happened when, you know, the New Testament, but I don'tunderstand.
So I just dug into it like a teacher and started figuring it out, started sharing things.
And then I became more confident because other people were like, I didn't know that.
And so then that made me feel more comfortable to share it.
And then I realized as time went on, I could, people said, if you would outline book ofJames or so and so I'll pay you for it.
(17:35):
And so it just kind of became this idea that people were like, what if you did Genesis allthe way to revelations?
And I was like, you're crazy.
And then people started being like, no, I would pay you money to do that.
And I was like, seriously?
So I started like releasing these one at a time.
And it wasn't like one day God said to my soul, know, this is what you're going to do.
(17:58):
And this is how everything's going to fit together.
And that writing course that you took is going to go to your blogging and that
teaching is going to go to this and the artist part is going to go.
It didn't happen like that.
It was in all in hindsight.
It was all just me taking the next step towards.
don't know what right now.
(18:19):
I'm just need to study my Bible right now.
Somebody emailed me.
Would you outline James for me?
We're studying it.
That would be great.
And then I'll pay you 20 bucks or whatever.
And it's just like, it wasn't a plan until I saw, my gosh.
God put every single one of those pieces in place.
(18:39):
And now it's this one beautiful cohesive thing.
And that's when I began realizing like so many people are constantly like, what's mypurpose?
What's my calling?
What's my next step?
And I've tried to constantly encourage people like, you may not know until you've alreadygotten there.
And then you're like, you just have to take the next step because
(19:03):
chances are God's not gonna lay out that plan.
And when you do see his plan laid out, it's gonna be so much more beautiful than yourealized it could be.
So in my long-winded way, God does this through so many people of my story, your story of,thought all this stuff I worked so hard for was a waste.
And then it came back and served such a different and wonderful purpose.
(19:28):
I didn't see coming at all.
So.
such a good, yeah, no, I think that's so good.
And again, it's something that anybody really in probably any stage of, I mean, even inyoung adulthood, but especially in adulthood, I just feel like the conversations that I
have with people, I mean, this is such a a common thing, but I want to shift a little bit.
(19:51):
Like we're, just kind of turning down a road that you mentioned and that's really thetopic of biblical literacy.
And before people listening, like turn this off, because they're like, this is gonna beboring.
I promise you it's not.
Because this is something that I am super passionate about.
And I have by no means arrived.
(20:14):
I am on my own journey.
That's part of why I'm in seminary.
but I'm fascinated by this.
And I think the thing that has been really interesting is, know, like, and as you knowthis, and as people know this, like, it's not like I grew up in the church.
So I've had, you know, a much shorter amount of time to come to this realization of howlittle I knew about the Bible, but the amount of people that I talked to who grew up in
(20:47):
the church, and this is not...
I would say by no means exhaustive because like my husband grew up in the church and isincredibly knowledgeable when it comes to the Bible.
He certainly also would say like he has not arrived and he learns new things all the time.
But overall, like he is generally very knowledgeable.
(21:11):
However, I talked to many people like you kind of alluded to.
who have grown up in the church or have been a Christian for a long period of time and whoare not biblically literate in any way, shape or form.
And they have not read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
They've cherry picked, you know, verses here and there over the years.
(21:33):
And so my question is sort of two part here.
And the first part is why do you think we live in a time where we have the most access toresources?
than ever.
And yet, we have probably one of the most biblically illiterate generation of Christiansever.
(21:59):
And I don't know if maybe that's right entirely, but that's kind of the sense that I getjust, I mean, I think in a lot of ways anecdotally, I don't know how much actual research
is done on this.
I'm sure there's some, but I think again, mean, you Barna does a lot of research in thisarea.
So one, that's sort of the first part is why do you think we've gotten here?
(22:24):
And two, why do you think it's so important to be biblically literate when it comes topersonal and spiritual growth?
So two part question there.
well, that's the thing is like, there are people that did grow up in the church and arelike, I get it, you know, and I'm, grew up in the church and I read my Bible and I
(22:48):
journaled and I prayed and I knew the stories and I even went to Bible bowl and like, Iwon this little award when I was like in third grade of
knowing, doing the writing assignment for Luke, like I knew it really well.
So it wasn't that I didn't love the Bible and I didn't study it and it wasn't taught tome.
But I really think it depends on how you're the curriculum.
(23:12):
I mean, when it comes down to it as a teacher, you can have the same thing being taught indifferent ways.
And some kids will be like, I don't get it.
And other kids will be like, oh, I get it.
And I think that is one of the things is
whether you have a powerful curriculum or not of teaching the biblical literacy aspect ofit.
(23:35):
And when I say biblical literacy, mean, you can understand not like the basics of, youknow, what you believe theologically, but the actual story, like if you were retelling the
story of Little Red Riding Hood, you could tell me the story in order.
Tell me the characters, you can tell me the setting, you could tell me the impact thatperson's decision had on the other one.
(23:56):
But I...
But I think that a lot of the lean away towards studying the Bible like that, and I'veheard it growing up, I hear it as an adult too, is the, we don't want to study the Bible
like a textbook, it's not a textbook.
And so I think that's partly too, is if you don't have a really strong curriculum and ifyou are afraid of studying the Bible like that too, which I get, I don't believe the Bible
(24:24):
is just another textbook, I do believe
that it is different and the Bible still speaks to us today and it can give us insightsand its word is alive and active.
However, I teach people it's so important to know biblical literacy because that's how youdiscern things.
(24:44):
That's how you make decisions is based off the Bible.
And I think a lot of us are stuck because we're getting really into these trendy.
speakers or these trendy authors or we're listening to videos or shows or whatever thatare just you're more consuming people's opinions.
(25:05):
And even if they're talking about the Bible, it's hard to know what's true if you havenothing to measure it up against.
And so I don't think a lot of people are getting on these platforms being like, I'm gonnatrick everybody.
But I do feel like
people get things twisted sometimes and you should be able to discern.
So as a kid, my parents constantly told us, you know, like, I want you to own your faith.
(25:28):
I want you to question things.
I want you to look them up for yourself.
And I was always like, like what?
Like I didn't understand.
Like if the preacher said it's a hundred percent truth, you know, as a kid, that's kind ofhow you're like, as you get older, you might be like, wait, that's, I don't get that.
And so as you get older, you start learning to discern things.
(25:48):
And so a lot of us need that biblical literacy aspect to discern it based off the Bible,not off of what our parents said or what the pastor said or what the YouTuber said or
whatever.
And it's not that these people don't have great things to say, but if you truly believethe Bible is God's word, need to be just everything else needs to be secondary.
(26:12):
And so when I couldn't, if when I was using the Bible as secondary resource,
then my discernment piece was getting all mixed up.
And so that's why I think it's so important for people to know that.
And also for churches to acknowledge that you can study the Bible as a textbook whileholding it in a higher esteem and that it is a tool.
(26:37):
And we're not worshiping the Bible either.
You know, there's that extreme from one end to the other.
But I do feel like if you're trying to teach,
One of my biggest pet peeves is when people will get up and be like, all right, we'regoing to talk about so and so, but it's really long.
So just read it later.
We'll talk about it now.
And I'm like, why wouldn't you just read the passage that we're going to talk about?
(26:58):
Because it's under the assumption one, you'll read it later, which nobody will, or two,you've already read it.
And so if you haven't read it, you feel intimidated.
Yeah.
by what's being said.
I am like, that's like my number one thing when I teach lessons and I study, like, we'regonna be talking about this chapter and we're gonna read the entire chapter before we do
(27:21):
it because it's so important to read the Bible.
I don't know how else to put it.
Yeah, absolutely.
It can obviously feel really overwhelming for people who, you know, don't know where tostart, whether they've, they're brand new to their faith, or they've been in church their
entire lives.
(27:42):
So for somebody who is like, just starting on a journey into biblical literacy, wherewould you even recommend that they start?
Yeah, and that's kind of the people I serve.
And that could be all the way from a new believer to somebody like me who is like, I'm tooafraid to say, I don't know who you're talking about because you've been in it.
(28:09):
It's like when you know somebody's somebody's told you your name so many times, like Ican't ask what their name is now.
And it's like, there's so many Christians like that that are like, I don't get this.
And I'm just going to pretend like I do and say Jesus for all the answers.
And it's like, that's not helpful.
You know, so that's who I cater to is kind of welcome to the overwhelm.
(28:29):
It's totally fine.
Let me let's work through this together.
And so I try to just be that encouragement, encouraging voice and just be like, here's thetools I use and I'll either you can purchase them already.
You can watch my videos and I'll work, walk through them with you.
So I try to.
also cater to different learning styles because that's another thing I feel like is kindof been the gap.
(28:53):
It's like there's a traditional way to study your Bible and it doesn't resonate with a lotof people.
Just turning the pages and flipping through them, I'm like, what did I just read?
I don't know.
Like I have to highlight, I have to be active.
I have to do some kind of kinesthetic visual thing so that I can retain what I'm learning.
And so I try to tap into a lot of those different things where it's not changing whatwe're doing.
(29:18):
but it's changing the approach to it.
but basically the very first place I always tell people to start is acknowledge, realizethat your Bible is not in chronological order.
And even if you don't read it in chronological order to know what the chronological orderis so that you, when you think you're reading it in chronological order, you actually
(29:40):
realize, I'm not.
Because if you read Genesis to Revelation, parts of it are, but majority of it isn't.
And so I teach people, is how it's put together.
This is how you would put it together if it was like the beginning of time to revelation.
And I just help people in the simplest way to figure that out.
(30:00):
And I've created cheat sheets that kind of take the basic overall characters, thegenealogies, the storyline, so that if you are reading like Galatians and you're like,
haven't, I don't know the storyline.
You just flip to that page and says, okay,
This is Paul.
Paul lived during this year.
He was after Jesus's time.
(30:24):
Like I kind of gave you that whole setting.
There's a place called Galatia.
He's writing to people called Galatians.
That's why it's called Galatians and it's a letter to them.
So I kind of try to break down the very basic things.
So even if you don't understand how the whole story fits together, you can be like, okay,now I'm set in this visual.
Like you're starting a movie or whatever.
(30:45):
You can see where you're at.
that I try to help people with that.
But what I mostly try to help people with is not just take my word for it and I'm anothervoice on Instagram or whatever, but here's how I came to this conclusion.
Let me show you my methods so you can do them too.
So that's what I'm trying to provide those resources while at the same time tellingpeople, but don't just take my word for it, you know.
(31:14):
open up your Bible, here's how I found this, here's how I want you to keep going.
And just bringing that alive to people with different styles of learning and get thempassionate about it instead of, I should do this because if I don't, I'm a bad person.
Like that's not motivation.
You want to be in love with it.
teaching a man to fish versus like feeding him fish.
(31:38):
What's the, what's the phrase?
you know, you teach a man to fish, feed him for life, him, taking them.
I don't know.
It's too, what day is this?
I don't know.
I sounded smart till you did that.
husband is going to troll me so hard on that blender.
Yeah, no, it's like feed him a give a man a fish feed him for a day teach a man to fit.
(32:03):
That's it.
eyes when we're recording this.
It's Monday morning after a lot of things.
So it's you know, it's fine.
We're we are survived.
We're thriving not surviving.
Yes, that's
kids made it to school.
Let's just count that as a win.
Amen.
No, I think that's so good.
(32:23):
And again, such a great place to start.
Because again, this is and this is a journey.
This is a journey of a lifetime.
It is not something you are going to get overnight.
I know.
So I think that that's that's a big piece of this is just like understanding that the thediscipleship process, the sanctification process,
(32:45):
the walk with God is gonna be from now until you go hang out with him in heaven.
Like it's just gonna be that.
But it's such an important piece of that is knowing and also knowing what you don't knowand being okay with that.
Yeah, and just realizing a lot of people are just like, this is just reserved for peoplegoing to seminary or people that are preaching and know God made this word for everybody
(33:13):
in every circumstance.
And if you are the one going through a hard time, this Bible is going to be so encouragingto you.
so if you it's not that you can't understand pieces, but the depth of things that youunderstand when you start studying in this way, it's just going to become like I didn't
understand.
how God could be good and do allow terrible things to happen to me.
(33:37):
And when I went through that, the biblical literacy parts, heart started turning my heartto understand God is way more complicated than I thought he was.
And that's a good thing because God is still good or because God's allowing this and God'sgood, that still makes him good.
And so what does that mean?
What am I going to do with this?
(33:58):
so understanding who God was helped me
get through some really hard times in my life.
And so that's why I'm so passionate about just start, just start.
You never know what's gonna happen with this.
And if you need somebody to help you along the way, I would love to, I've got a communityof people, but to not be that person that sits there for 30 years going, I don't know who
(34:19):
they're talking about.
It's okay, a lot of us don't and we're figuring it out together.
And there's so much freedom in just having that relationship without any strings attached.
Yeah.
Well, you've alluded to it a couple of times and I, with the time that we have left, I dowant to talk about the, your, were diagnosed with late stage Lyme disease.
(34:43):
And so I'd love for you to share kind of your, your story of, how that, you know, you'rejust your personal journey of, being diagnosed with that and, how it has reshaped your
perspective on life and your faith.
And I know that that's a loaded question.
it is.
I've got a couple notes here and I'm going to look at those so I don't like go off therails on this.
(35:07):
But yeah, that was a really big pivotal moment in my life is I had my son, he was probablythree, and then I got pregnant with my daughter.
after I had her, I mean, I had back pain when I was pregnant.
And after I had her, it just went on like breastfeeding was extremely painful.
My back was
(35:27):
in pain.
was just like, what's going on?
Is this normal?
And they were like, yeah, it's normal.
But it just went on so long.
They were like, yeah, that's not normal.
So I went and got all these tests done.
I went to the ER a couple of times.
It's having so much pain in my chest.
wasn't like heart.
It was like muscle, but it was just stabbing, shooting pains like nerve pains.
couldn't figure it out and nobody could figure it out.
(35:48):
Everything's fine.
Everything's fine.
I went to a rheumatologist.
They were like, you I think you have fibromyalgia, which I found out was like
we can't find anything wrong, so it's called this.
And so I still didn't have an answer.
And then it got to the point where like the medicines I was taking was making, wasconfusing those symptoms and adding to symptoms.
(36:09):
So it took me about two and a half years of just debilitating pain to the point that I wasin a wheelchair and I was going to all these different doctors.
had like,
a bajillion different doctors and they all had a different plan.
Everybody was an idiot and they had the answer.
And so I was just so confused.
Like what is, what is going on?
(36:30):
and so, you know, I've got a one year old and a four year old and my husband, had to get ananny to take care of the kids, take care of me.
couldn't have, I couldn't get to the bathroom on my own.
It was just terrifying because I either got
here's 10 more medications to try, this will fix it, I promise you won't leave herewithout us helping you.
(36:54):
And then it never helped.
Or I would get, well, you're taking so much medication and we can't figure out the answer,so we're gonna send a psychiatrist down here.
And so it was just like to the point that I was like, nobody's helping me and my family istrying what they can.
Well, you should try this, you should try this, or I'm gonna say this and this willencourage you when really just.
(37:18):
piss me off or whatever.
So it was just, I was angry at everyone because I was like, you keep saying you're goingto fix it.
You're not doing anything.
Or I don't want to hear that.
Or don't ask me how I'm feeling.
I still feel crappy, you know?
So it was just this, Oh man, it was just awful because not only was I in the most pain I'dbeen in my entire life, I was having like seizures and twitching and all kinds of like
(37:47):
crazy embarrassing symptoms.
And then I couldn't take care of my kids.
And then I just, it was like, have exhausted the medical system, natural all the way to,you know, mainstream.
We've done it all.
And that was when I really was like, you know, it's easier for me to believe that Goddoesn't exist than he would allow this to happen.
(38:14):
And that's where I was at.
and I was so depressed and I know some of the medications I was on were messing with mythoughts too and I had to, you know, talk to doctors and be like, I'm having suicidal
thoughts that I don't think are mine.
I think it's medicine.
Like I was alert enough to know, I don't think this is me.
(38:37):
And so I did get the help and I did get the things adjusted, but I was just like, I'venever been so down in my entire life.
I've never been so questioning everything I've grown up in my entire life.
And I just had that unsettling thought of like, well, maybe God's not real.
And I knew that didn't settle well with me.
(38:58):
And so I thought, well, if I believe he's good and I believe he's allowing this, thenthere's only one conclusion I can draw from that.
And it's like, just cause he's allowing it doesn't mean he's not good.
So if he's still good,
What does this mean?
And so from there that launched into maybe I don't know God as well as I thought I did.
(39:20):
I want to know him more.
I want to know what's the purpose in this pain.
And so instead of just being like, when can I sleep this off?
How can I sleep this off?
It became how can I use this right now to keep going?
Because it went on for so long.
I was like, I don't know.
I might be like this the rest of my life.
So what am I going to do with this?
(39:41):
And it just gave me that purpose to just take care of myself and stop just waiting foreverybody to fix it, putting my trust in everybody else.
And honestly, it gave my health back focusing on my spiritual growth.
And I don't necessarily say because I like prayed the special prayer or something, but Ithink that God gives us wisdom that we...
(40:09):
don't have ears to see and I mean ears to hear and eyes to see when we are so focused onbeing in control of fixing things and when we give it over to him he gives us so much
wisdom of what to do next and how to help ourselves and that's when I dug into self-careand actual if if I'm gonna go spiritually I need to understand the Bible more and I
(40:33):
started opening and I started doing all those things that take care of yourself.
when I get angry, what's, am I going to go throw stuff in the backyard or am I going to,you know, start up meditation or whatever it needs to be?
So it's like, it was never an easy, easy fix, but the only thing that did fix it wascomplete surrender to him and being like, I want to know you Lord, because I know you're
(41:01):
good.
So I want, I want something good to come out of this.
And right now I don't struggle with any of that stuff.
mean, it's goodness, probably three years since I've had a bad flare up and that happened.
My daughter's 10 now.
So that went on for a long time, but it slowly got better.
And it's been one of those things that gives me compassion for people struggling withtheir faith instead of judgment.
(41:28):
gives me one of the, it's one of those things that gives me strength.
When I go through something new, it's like,
I understand this struggle in a way that I didn't before.
It's not an attack on me.
God's not attacking me, but he is gonna be here to help me through this.
So there, don't know exactly how to wrap that story up besides I'm in a really good place.
(41:55):
I have a much deeper trust and faith in God and.
This is why I'm so passionate about biblical literacy because I don't want people to waituntil they get to a point like that, that they're like, okay, I need to figure this out.
Figure it out now.
Make it a practice, make it a priority.
And you don't have to follow the traditional rules.
(42:17):
I write, I journal, I doodle in my Bible and I own like 10 of them.
Just get in the word however you wanna do it because if you're not gonna do it foryourself, just do it for yourself.
Because you can't help others if you can't help yourself.
And there's so much beauty in just meeting him in those pages, even if you're not, even ifyour physical is not better.
(42:47):
Man, working on that spiritual health was a game changer and it brings you so much morepeace than just trying to have a doctor chase symptoms.
Good grief.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I, I mean, anybody, you know, I talk about this a lot and just the reality is, isthat anybody who's lived long enough, uh, is going to experience trials and suffering and
(43:12):
pain and, um, illness and loss.
And it can be really hard to see God in those moments.
Um, but like you said, um, I mean, for me, like when I was going through, uh, when we lostour two babies and we.
were going through secondary infertility issues and just all kinds of things like that.
(43:34):
Like that was actually the year that I had set out to read the Bible from cover to cover.
And it was in those moments of like in my darkest moments when I'm reading Job, you know,and when I'm in my darkest moments and I'm reading, you know, Genesis and I'm seeing like,
how did God let this happen to Joseph?
But you know, it wasn't until I really dug into it that I'm like, wait a second.
(43:56):
It says that God was with him.
God was with him.
And it's just like, God was with Joseph when he, God was with Joseph when he, God was withJoseph when he, like still bad stuff happened, but God was with him at the whole time.
And so it's, it's that reminder of like, you are not alone.
God is with you.
but you have to, yeah.
(44:16):
let Jesus not have to deal with that stuff.
He took that on because he loves us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just such an encouragement.
And I know that for so many people who are listening, have, you know, have gone throughthat are going through that will go through that, like just that reminder of just remember
that he is with you.
(44:37):
And you just have to slow down long enough to be able to, to look for him and to hear hisvoice.
Amy, this has been so good.
I would love for you to just share where people can
connect with you where they can find all those amazing stick figure resources and just howthey can, you know, again, start their own journey for biblical literacy and all that.
(45:05):
Yeah, I want to keep it simple.
I'm Amy Center and so my website is amycenter.com and probably the best way honestly tolike figure out where my resources are, where my social is, just subscribe.
If you go on amycenter.com there will be a pop-up or you can go forward slash subscribebut usually there's a pop-up to subscribe and make it really easy and I've got actually a
(45:30):
free printable
that is reading the chronological order of the New Testament this year.
And so some people are like, well, what about New Test, or what'd I say, Old Testament?
I don't know what I said.
The Old Testament, the Old Testament this year.
I got ahead of myself and my thoughts.
Woo, okay, creative people, scatterbrain.
But I organize it for you in chronological order, the Old Testament for 2025, and thenwe'll do the New Testament next year.
(45:56):
But that's a totally free resource.
And I don't have it where it's like some of these studies are like day one read this.
It's just a general read this in this month so that you can read it in chunks however youwant.
All my stuff super flexible, very structured.
I think you'll really enjoy it.
And then I have free lessons on YouTube where I teach a method I call the simple methodand that stands for all these things and I walk you through them.
(46:22):
so much fun stuff.
We're goofy.
We're serious.
We're all the things but amycenter.com.
I'll get you hooked up if you subscribe over there.
I love it.
love it.
Thank you so much for being here, Amy.
You're awesome.
Thank you so much.
Appreciate you having me on here.
man.
Welcome to the show.
Amy center.
Amy, thank you so much for being here.
Thanks for having me, I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
This has been on our calendar for like a long time.
Like we had to reschedule a few times.
I mean, it's been so this is like, this is like, it's been a long time coming.
(00:23):
But okay, sorry, I am gonna have to sing a Taylor Swift song.
it's been a long time coming.
And so I'm just very grateful to finally have you here.
So we're not gonna waste any time.
and I'm gonna have you give us the Amy 101.
So tell us who you are, what you do, and how you got to where you are.
Okay, well, I am, I've recently found out we grew up like right next to each other.
(00:48):
Yes, which is like real fun.
both came from Northern Virginia and did you ever go to the...
You grew up in Sterling.
Yeah, I grew up in Sterling and I think you just said on a recent podcast that you turn 40or about to turn 40.
I just turned 40 last year.
Okay, so like what year did graduate high school?
2002.
(01:10):
Okay, so you're a year ahead of me in high school.
I love this.
Did you ever like, I just am like, we had to have like run into each other at something.
each other, but surely we were at the Herndon Festival getting down with the local bandsand...
100 % we were both at the Herndon Festival.
Yeah, I lived in walking distance of the Herndon Festival.
(01:33):
So everybody would always like park at our house.
And then we would walk.
Did you ever eat at the tortilla factory?
Yeah, Yes.
Okay, so the tortilla.
can we just have a moment?
Okay, everyone, you just get to listen to Amy.
but I like that you know all the places that I know.
who didn't know the tortilla factory?
(01:55):
May it rest in peace.
every Saturday?
absolutely.
Yeah
So I was still in my kid'sness.
was like, they're like, what did you do when you were a kid?
And I was like, oh, like either Friday or Saturday night, we would go to the bowling alleybecause that was like, that was what people did.
(02:16):
I mean, I'm just, oh my.
came up with the, what do you call it?
Like the nighttime, like it's like a nightclub.
Yes.
And you like felt so cool.
And they like dropped the beat and the lights.
And it was like, I'm in high school.
I'm so cool at the bowling alley.
yes.
And what about rest in town center?
Do you get a rest in town center?
(02:37):
Okay.
my family out there and we go there ice skating every Christmas and yes all the samethings.
This is awesome
on.
Okay, so Amy, so I worked one of my first jobs in high school was I was a skate guard atthe Reston Town Center.
Wait, it gets better.
it gets better.
So I was a skate guard at the Reston Town Center ice skating rink.
(03:00):
When I got the job, I did not know how to ice skate.
I got but my friend, my friend worked there and they were like, we need skate guards and Iwas like, sure.
So I got a job as a skate guard at the Reston Town Center skating rink.
I mean, I very quickly like learned how to skate.
You know, like the people that work there that skate around and like help people who havefallen.
(03:25):
Yes, and I didn't know how to skate.
you had to fall to get to them.
also, at 16 years old, drove the Zamboni.
Like who, who thought this was a good idea to allow a 16 year old to drive the Zamboni toclean the ice?
Yeah, like the big, that big thing.
(03:48):
They needed somebody to do it.
And I had, I had really a lot of driving experience.
It's a long story.
And I was like, I think I can do it.
And so my boss was like,
you've got one shot, like don't screw this up.
And I ended up doing a great job.
And so then my boss was like, all right, you get to drive the Zamboni now I was likewinning.
(04:08):
But then Amy, it gets better.
Okay.
So then, you know how every Christmas like it was a big deal, like they would do the bigChristmas parade and then Santa would light the Christmas tree and then you could get
pictures with Santa at the skating rink in Reston Town Center.
Well,
I guess like the guy who had usually been Santa, like, I don't know what happened.
(04:31):
There was some sort of like, hullabaloo and that Santa ended up being a bad Santa orsomething.
And so the rest, so the rest in town center Santa from the years of like 1999 to 2001, Ithink maybe those years, it would not have been 2002, but definitely 99 to 2001 was my
(04:55):
father.
That's awesome!
of themselves with Santa from the Reston Town Center Santa in 1999 to 2001, that is mydad.
So there you go.
I did, but I think we went to the Dollis Town Center Mall for our Santa picks.
(05:15):
man, get blimpy.
man, the food court.
Okay, we are reminiscing.
We could do this the entire time.
This is really fun.
And again, I really feel like yes, this is the most 90s like, my gosh, what did we do?
We went to the bowling alley, we went and we walked around the mall.
We went to the Reston Town Center skating rink.
Kids these days don't even know Amy.
(05:37):
They don't even know.
my gosh.
of Base came on the, at the roller skating rink.
It was like the best day of your life.
The best day ever.
my gosh.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm convinced that the fact that we are similar in age and from the same area, we had tohave run into each other.
What if we're in like the background?
(05:59):
You probably did.
You probably did.
I love this so much.
though, so like, whose car is this?
It's mine.
love it.
okay.
Well, now that we've sufficiently discussed where we're from, and I interrupted you duringyour one-on-one.
So let's get back to it.
I love it.
(06:20):
So I grew up in a suburb of DC, but I went to school at ACU as a Christian college inTexas.
And that's where I was planning on graduating, coming home, but I met my husband and hewas like, you know how Texas people are, they don't leave.
So we're here and he was a country boy, but my compromise was we have to live in the city.
(06:44):
So we're in the city.
in Texas, but I love it here.
I wouldn't go back now, but I saw a family there.
So we visit, but we're we've been married.
I got married at 21, so we're coming up on 20 years of marriage was just insane.
And then we have a son and a daughter, 13 and 10.
(07:05):
What this is like life is crazy.
We're talking about them going into middle school and high school next year.
And so that's blowing my mind.
But anyways.
So I went to school to become an art teacher, got to college and realized everybody'sreally good and got really intimidated and became a regular elementary teacher instead.
(07:28):
And so basically I was kind of discouraged in from some of my professors that it may bethis wasn't my career that I should be choosing.
So that really kind of killed my artistic dream.
They were real sweet about it, but it was more of like, wanted to, I didn't want to giveup on my dream of teaching.
(07:53):
So I chose teaching over like going to graphic design or whatever.
But I just kind of lost that passion to teach other people how to draw and didn't feelconfident in my ability anymore.
And so that really stuck because I stopped doing art for so long.
And I ended up
I was a teacher.
loved it.
was an elementary school teacher.
And of course I could do stick figures and my kids thought I was the coolest.
(08:16):
I was so good at drawing.
And so my seven year olds really helped me with that self-esteem in that area.
But when I got pregnant, I wanted to be a stay at home mom.
So I was stay at home mom after a couple of years and I was going to go back to work whenthe kids went back to school and ended up getting really sick.
(08:36):
And I can tell you more about that story another time, but
I ended up getting really sick and in this healing process, I kind of discovered my, thejoy of art again.
And so since the kids have been back at school, I actually haven't gone back to teaching.
I created this whole business where I kind of use those lessons I've learned of how thattime in my life grew my faith and then how I use my learning skills, styles, and my art
(09:05):
background and my education background to start.
sharing with people what I was teaching myself, basically.
I was taking these notes and showing people, hey, my faith is really struggling withwhat's going on.
this is what I'm learning.
Just wanted to share it.
And it started resonating with so many people that years later now I've got a full-fledgedbusiness drawing stick figures, teaching people the Bible.
(09:29):
And I love it.
And you can see now I've got my art everywhere.
And it's just one of those things that
came with time for me to figure out what I wanted to do.
And I love what I do and I'm able to kind of use all those talents and those people andthose places that God's put in my path to do full-time business now.
(09:50):
No, I love that.
I love stories like that where you, you go to college or you, know, are entering kind ofa, you know, young adulthood with this idea of like, this is this thing that I really love
to do.
And I feel called to do.
And for whatever reason, a door closes for that thing.
then when years later, God's like, I didn't give you those skills for nothing.
(10:15):
I just didn't want you to use them that way.
Absolutely.
And it's interesting because like I relate so much to that, like with all of my years oftraining in comedy and doing, you know, kind of stuff in the, you know, in the comedy
world and getting just trained in public speaking and all that kind of stuff that now Ilove to teach the Bible and I love to get the opportunity to preach or to teach in various
(10:44):
fashions.
And so it's like, no, I'm not doing comedy, but like,
the skills that I developed over those years in how to tell a story and how to, you know,how to paint a visual picture for people.
I mean, all of those skills in public speaking and comedy and improvisation have served mevery well.
(11:06):
And when it comes to when you're standing before people and you're holding the mostimportant thing in your hand, which is the Bible, and you're trying to teach it to people
in a way that they understand and relate to.
and so I love that, that God just took your love and your passion for art and used it insuch a different way.
so I want to kind of dig into that a little bit is that, you know, obviously this issomething that a lot of people relate to, especially those that might be in our age
(11:36):
category and sort of that, like, I don't want to say midlife because I don't think we'remidlife.
people might call us midlife.
But people in there, you know, especially as you've transitioned from young adulthood intofull-fledged adulthood, whether you're in your late 20s or in your 30s or in your 40s or
(12:01):
even in your 50s and 60s, and you kind of are in this, I don't know, limbo or this placeof you're not really sure what your calling is, what your, you know, how you're supposed
to use your
skills, especially if you're a Christian and you're trying to figure out like, how do Iuse my passion or my, you know, my, how I am really good at spreadsheets or whatever it
(12:28):
is, like, how do I use this for the glory of God, like, walk us through that process ofhow you kind of came to the realization that, your love of art and your skills in that
area were not lost.
They were they were to be used for something.
Yeah, and I think definitely something I can reflect on now is like, I feel like thiswhole last year of turning 40, I didn't really dread it like people do.
(12:57):
It was just kind of like, okay, I'm 40, whatever.
But when I finally turned it, it was almost like, feel comfortable here.
Like you're past the 20 year old of like the insecurity of everybody's opinion and tryingto find people to
date and make like be yourself at the same time, but impress other people.
(13:19):
And it's just a lot of news.
You're trying a new job, all that insecurity.
And then my thirties, I had that marriage and career established and then I became a mom.
And that was a whole nother world of insecurities and fears and things like that.
And so it was also like, I was trying to figure out what do I do where I'm not just a mom.
(13:43):
And know so many people relate to that.
So I like an Etsy shop.
And then I was like, I'll take a writing course and then I'll do these painting classesand I'll do, you know, but I was just kind of like, I had no direction.
It was just kind of like, I've just felt very lost.
And I felt like I had no energy besides being a mom, you know.
(14:03):
And with good reason, little kids are a lot of work.
And so as I got older, I kind of started realizing, and then I dealt with health issues.
It kind of puts your priorities.
in their place of what's important.
And my faith was important.
Passing that legacy onto my kids so that they shared this faith too was important.
(14:25):
And then it was like, well, how do I dig?
How do I connect to God?
And so all of the, do I make money?
How do I help support or how do I help support the family?
How do I, all that kind of like went to the side and was like, I just need to work on myrelationship with God.
because I was such a low point in my life with health.
And so when I kind of stripped away all the expectations, like what other people think ofme and what am I, how am going to make money and how am going to adjust all that?
(14:54):
And it was just, you're allowed to sit here and just read your Bible.
And then it was like, well, now I want to read my Bible and understand it.
And before it was just like, you need to read your Bible and pray more, or you need to dothis study because that's what we started in class or it was,
for the first time where I was like, wanna open this and I wanna understand it and I wannaread it.
(15:17):
And it had nothing to do with any of the skills I had built on.
And so when I started reading it, I was highlighting and color coding and drawing thingsout and writing in journals and like, I see this word over and over and over again.
What is the connections I'm making?
And I had been blogging kind of my health struggles and started sharing, hey, I just amreally wanting to
(15:41):
own my faith and I've never understood how the Bible fit together.
It's out of chronological order, like it's grouped by genres.
And I just figured out mapping out the chronological order so I can read it in order.
And here's a little cheat sheet I made and like took a screenshot of it.
And like people started commenting on it like crazy.
And I was kind of embarrassed when I put it up like, duh, everybody probably is like,cute.
(16:04):
You just figured that out.
And everybody was like,
I didn't know it wasn't in chronological order or, this is so helpful if I'd had thisso-and-so and I just realized all those little, and it was like in my doodles, sorry, this
is just for me.
know, it's just like Moses with a stick figure, you know?
And so there was no expectation.
(16:24):
It was just, I was just talking to people and sharing my story and this happened to bepart of my story.
And all of a sudden it was like, there's a whole need for people to understand this too.
It's not just me.
And it was, I was embarrassed about it because I'd grown up in the church my entire life.
I'd gone to a Christian, I mean, I've been in youth group, I went to all this stuff.
(16:47):
I went to a Christian college, I took Bible classes.
And here I am 35 years old and I'm still like, I know the story of Jonah, but I have noidea how he fits in with anything else.
Like, it's just like a collection of fairy tales to me almost.
And I was like, how do I make it real?
Like if I know,
the Roman Empire existed in school.
(17:08):
talked about it and I think that happened when, you know, the New Testament, but I don'tunderstand.
So I just dug into it like a teacher and started figuring it out, started sharing things.
And then I became more confident because other people were like, I didn't know that.
And so then that made me feel more comfortable to share it.
And then I realized as time went on, I could, people said, if you would outline book ofJames or so and so I'll pay you for it.
(17:35):
And so it just kind of became this idea that people were like, what if you did Genesis allthe way to revelations?
And I was like, you're crazy.
And then people started being like, no, I would pay you money to do that.
And I was like, seriously?
So I started like releasing these one at a time.
And it wasn't like one day God said to my soul, know, this is what you're going to do.
(17:58):
And this is how everything's going to fit together.
And that writing course that you took is going to go to your blogging and that
teaching is going to go to this and the artist part is going to go.
It didn't happen like that.
It was in all in hindsight.
It was all just me taking the next step towards.
don't know what right now.
(18:19):
I'm just need to study my Bible right now.
Somebody emailed me.
Would you outline James for me?
We're studying it.
That would be great.
And then I'll pay you 20 bucks or whatever.
And it's just like, it wasn't a plan until I saw, my gosh.
God put every single one of those pieces in place.
(18:39):
And now it's this one beautiful cohesive thing.
And that's when I began realizing like so many people are constantly like, what's mypurpose?
What's my calling?
What's my next step?
And I've tried to constantly encourage people like, you may not know until you've alreadygotten there.
And then you're like, you just have to take the next step because
(19:03):
chances are God's not gonna lay out that plan.
And when you do see his plan laid out, it's gonna be so much more beautiful than yourealized it could be.
So in my long-winded way, God does this through so many people of my story, your story of,thought all this stuff I worked so hard for was a waste.
And then it came back and served such a different and wonderful purpose.
(19:28):
I didn't see coming at all.
So.
such a good, yeah, no, I think that's so good.
And again, it's something that anybody really in probably any stage of, I mean, even inyoung adulthood, but especially in adulthood, I just feel like the conversations that I
have with people, I mean, this is such a a common thing, but I want to shift a little bit.
(19:51):
Like we're, just kind of turning down a road that you mentioned and that's really thetopic of biblical literacy.
And before people listening, like turn this off, because they're like, this is gonna beboring.
I promise you it's not.
Because this is something that I am super passionate about.
And I have by no means arrived.
(20:14):
I am on my own journey.
That's part of why I'm in seminary.
but I'm fascinated by this.
And I think the thing that has been really interesting is, know, like, and as you knowthis, and as people know this, like, it's not like I grew up in the church.
So I've had, you know, a much shorter amount of time to come to this realization of howlittle I knew about the Bible, but the amount of people that I talked to who grew up in
(20:47):
the church, and this is not...
I would say by no means exhaustive because like my husband grew up in the church and isincredibly knowledgeable when it comes to the Bible.
He certainly also would say like he has not arrived and he learns new things all the time.
But overall, like he is generally very knowledgeable.
(21:11):
However, I talked to many people like you kind of alluded to.
who have grown up in the church or have been a Christian for a long period of time and whoare not biblically literate in any way, shape or form.
And they have not read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.
They've cherry picked, you know, verses here and there over the years.
(21:33):
And so my question is sort of two part here.
And the first part is why do you think we live in a time where we have the most access toresources?
than ever.
And yet, we have probably one of the most biblically illiterate generation of Christiansever.
(21:59):
And I don't know if maybe that's right entirely, but that's kind of the sense that I getjust, I mean, I think in a lot of ways anecdotally, I don't know how much actual research
is done on this.
I'm sure there's some, but I think again, mean, you Barna does a lot of research in thisarea.
So one, that's sort of the first part is why do you think we've gotten here?
(22:24):
And two, why do you think it's so important to be biblically literate when it comes topersonal and spiritual growth?
So two part question there.
well, that's the thing is like, there are people that did grow up in the church and arelike, I get it, you know, and I'm, grew up in the church and I read my Bible and I
(22:48):
journaled and I prayed and I knew the stories and I even went to Bible bowl and like, Iwon this little award when I was like in third grade of
knowing, doing the writing assignment for Luke, like I knew it really well.
So it wasn't that I didn't love the Bible and I didn't study it and it wasn't taught tome.
But I really think it depends on how you're the curriculum.
(23:12):
I mean, when it comes down to it as a teacher, you can have the same thing being taught indifferent ways.
And some kids will be like, I don't get it.
And other kids will be like, oh, I get it.
And I think that is one of the things is
whether you have a powerful curriculum or not of teaching the biblical literacy aspect ofit.
(23:35):
And when I say biblical literacy, mean, you can understand not like the basics of, youknow, what you believe theologically, but the actual story, like if you were retelling the
story of Little Red Riding Hood, you could tell me the story in order.
Tell me the characters, you can tell me the setting, you could tell me the impact thatperson's decision had on the other one.
(23:56):
But I...
But I think that a lot of the lean away towards studying the Bible like that, and I'veheard it growing up, I hear it as an adult too, is the, we don't want to study the Bible
like a textbook, it's not a textbook.
And so I think that's partly too, is if you don't have a really strong curriculum and ifyou are afraid of studying the Bible like that too, which I get, I don't believe the Bible
(24:24):
is just another textbook, I do believe
that it is different and the Bible still speaks to us today and it can give us insightsand its word is alive and active.
However, I teach people it's so important to know biblical literacy because that's how youdiscern things.
(24:44):
That's how you make decisions is based off the Bible.
And I think a lot of us are stuck because we're getting really into these trendy.
speakers or these trendy authors or we're listening to videos or shows or whatever thatare just you're more consuming people's opinions.
(25:05):
And even if they're talking about the Bible, it's hard to know what's true if you havenothing to measure it up against.
And so I don't think a lot of people are getting on these platforms being like, I'm gonnatrick everybody.
But I do feel like
people get things twisted sometimes and you should be able to discern.
So as a kid, my parents constantly told us, you know, like, I want you to own your faith.
(25:28):
I want you to question things.
I want you to look them up for yourself.
And I was always like, like what?
Like I didn't understand.
Like if the preacher said it's a hundred percent truth, you know, as a kid, that's kind ofhow you're like, as you get older, you might be like, wait, that's, I don't get that.
And so as you get older, you start learning to discern things.
(25:48):
And so a lot of us need that biblical literacy aspect to discern it based off the Bible,not off of what our parents said or what the pastor said or what the YouTuber said or
whatever.
And it's not that these people don't have great things to say, but if you truly believethe Bible is God's word, need to be just everything else needs to be secondary.
(26:12):
And so when I couldn't, if when I was using the Bible as secondary resource,
then my discernment piece was getting all mixed up.
And so that's why I think it's so important for people to know that.
And also for churches to acknowledge that you can study the Bible as a textbook whileholding it in a higher esteem and that it is a tool.
(26:37):
And we're not worshiping the Bible either.
You know, there's that extreme from one end to the other.
But I do feel like if you're trying to teach,
One of my biggest pet peeves is when people will get up and be like, all right, we'regoing to talk about so and so, but it's really long.
So just read it later.
We'll talk about it now.
And I'm like, why wouldn't you just read the passage that we're going to talk about?
(26:58):
Because it's under the assumption one, you'll read it later, which nobody will, or two,you've already read it.
And so if you haven't read it, you feel intimidated.
Yeah.
by what's being said.
I am like, that's like my number one thing when I teach lessons and I study, like, we'regonna be talking about this chapter and we're gonna read the entire chapter before we do
(27:21):
it because it's so important to read the Bible.
I don't know how else to put it.
Yeah, absolutely.
It can obviously feel really overwhelming for people who, you know, don't know where tostart, whether they've, they're brand new to their faith, or they've been in church their
entire lives.
(27:42):
So for somebody who is like, just starting on a journey into biblical literacy, wherewould you even recommend that they start?
Yeah, and that's kind of the people I serve.
And that could be all the way from a new believer to somebody like me who is like, I'm tooafraid to say, I don't know who you're talking about because you've been in it.
(28:09):
It's like when you know somebody's somebody's told you your name so many times, like Ican't ask what their name is now.
And it's like, there's so many Christians like that that are like, I don't get this.
And I'm just going to pretend like I do and say Jesus for all the answers.
And it's like, that's not helpful.
You know, so that's who I cater to is kind of welcome to the overwhelm.
(28:29):
It's totally fine.
Let me let's work through this together.
And so I try to just be that encouragement, encouraging voice and just be like, here's thetools I use and I'll either you can purchase them already.
You can watch my videos and I'll work, walk through them with you.
So I try to.
also cater to different learning styles because that's another thing I feel like is kindof been the gap.
(28:53):
It's like there's a traditional way to study your Bible and it doesn't resonate with a lotof people.
Just turning the pages and flipping through them, I'm like, what did I just read?
I don't know.
Like I have to highlight, I have to be active.
I have to do some kind of kinesthetic visual thing so that I can retain what I'm learning.
And so I try to tap into a lot of those different things where it's not changing whatwe're doing.
(29:18):
but it's changing the approach to it.
but basically the very first place I always tell people to start is acknowledge, realizethat your Bible is not in chronological order.
And even if you don't read it in chronological order to know what the chronological orderis so that you, when you think you're reading it in chronological order, you actually
(29:40):
realize, I'm not.
Because if you read Genesis to Revelation, parts of it are, but majority of it isn't.
And so I teach people, is how it's put together.
This is how you would put it together if it was like the beginning of time to revelation.
And I just help people in the simplest way to figure that out.
(30:00):
And I've created cheat sheets that kind of take the basic overall characters, thegenealogies, the storyline, so that if you are reading like Galatians and you're like,
haven't, I don't know the storyline.
You just flip to that page and says, okay,
This is Paul.
Paul lived during this year.
He was after Jesus's time.
(30:24):
Like I kind of gave you that whole setting.
There's a place called Galatia.
He's writing to people called Galatians.
That's why it's called Galatians and it's a letter to them.
So I kind of try to break down the very basic things.
So even if you don't understand how the whole story fits together, you can be like, okay,now I'm set in this visual.
Like you're starting a movie or whatever.
(30:45):
You can see where you're at.
that I try to help people with that.
But what I mostly try to help people with is not just take my word for it and I'm anothervoice on Instagram or whatever, but here's how I came to this conclusion.
Let me show you my methods so you can do them too.
So that's what I'm trying to provide those resources while at the same time tellingpeople, but don't just take my word for it, you know.
(31:14):
open up your Bible, here's how I found this, here's how I want you to keep going.
And just bringing that alive to people with different styles of learning and get thempassionate about it instead of, I should do this because if I don't, I'm a bad person.
Like that's not motivation.
You want to be in love with it.
teaching a man to fish versus like feeding him fish.
(31:38):
What's the, what's the phrase?
you know, you teach a man to fish, feed him for life, him, taking them.
I don't know.
It's too, what day is this?
I don't know.
I sounded smart till you did that.
husband is going to troll me so hard on that blender.
Yeah, no, it's like feed him a give a man a fish feed him for a day teach a man to fit.
(32:03):
That's it.
eyes when we're recording this.
It's Monday morning after a lot of things.
So it's you know, it's fine.
We're we are survived.
We're thriving not surviving.
Yes, that's
kids made it to school.
Let's just count that as a win.
Amen.
No, I think that's so good.
(32:23):
And again, such a great place to start.
Because again, this is and this is a journey.
This is a journey of a lifetime.
It is not something you are going to get overnight.
I know.
So I think that that's that's a big piece of this is just like understanding that the thediscipleship process, the sanctification process,
(32:45):
the walk with God is gonna be from now until you go hang out with him in heaven.
Like it's just gonna be that.
But it's such an important piece of that is knowing and also knowing what you don't knowand being okay with that.
Yeah, and just realizing a lot of people are just like, this is just reserved for peoplegoing to seminary or people that are preaching and know God made this word for everybody
(33:13):
in every circumstance.
And if you are the one going through a hard time, this Bible is going to be so encouragingto you.
so if you it's not that you can't understand pieces, but the depth of things that youunderstand when you start studying in this way, it's just going to become like I didn't
understand.
how God could be good and do allow terrible things to happen to me.
(33:37):
And when I went through that, the biblical literacy parts, heart started turning my heartto understand God is way more complicated than I thought he was.
And that's a good thing because God is still good or because God's allowing this and God'sgood, that still makes him good.
And so what does that mean?
What am I going to do with this?
(33:58):
so understanding who God was helped me
get through some really hard times in my life.
And so that's why I'm so passionate about just start, just start.
You never know what's gonna happen with this.
And if you need somebody to help you along the way, I would love to, I've got a communityof people, but to not be that person that sits there for 30 years going, I don't know who
(34:19):
they're talking about.
It's okay, a lot of us don't and we're figuring it out together.
And there's so much freedom in just having that relationship without any strings attached.
Yeah.
Well, you've alluded to it a couple of times and I, with the time that we have left, I dowant to talk about the, your, were diagnosed with late stage Lyme disease.
(34:43):
And so I'd love for you to share kind of your, your story of, how that, you know, you'rejust your personal journey of, being diagnosed with that and, how it has reshaped your
perspective on life and your faith.
And I know that that's a loaded question.
it is.
I've got a couple notes here and I'm going to look at those so I don't like go off therails on this.
(35:07):
But yeah, that was a really big pivotal moment in my life is I had my son, he was probablythree, and then I got pregnant with my daughter.
after I had her, I mean, I had back pain when I was pregnant.
And after I had her, it just went on like breastfeeding was extremely painful.
My back was
(35:27):
in pain.
was just like, what's going on?
Is this normal?
And they were like, yeah, it's normal.
But it just went on so long.
They were like, yeah, that's not normal.
So I went and got all these tests done.
I went to the ER a couple of times.
It's having so much pain in my chest.
wasn't like heart.
It was like muscle, but it was just stabbing, shooting pains like nerve pains.
couldn't figure it out and nobody could figure it out.
(35:48):
Everything's fine.
Everything's fine.
I went to a rheumatologist.
They were like, you I think you have fibromyalgia, which I found out was like
we can't find anything wrong, so it's called this.
And so I still didn't have an answer.
And then it got to the point where like the medicines I was taking was making, wasconfusing those symptoms and adding to symptoms.
(36:09):
So it took me about two and a half years of just debilitating pain to the point that I wasin a wheelchair and I was going to all these different doctors.
had like,
a bajillion different doctors and they all had a different plan.
Everybody was an idiot and they had the answer.
And so I was just so confused.
Like what is, what is going on?
(36:30):
and so, you know, I've got a one year old and a four year old and my husband, had to get ananny to take care of the kids, take care of me.
couldn't have, I couldn't get to the bathroom on my own.
It was just terrifying because I either got
here's 10 more medications to try, this will fix it, I promise you won't leave herewithout us helping you.
(36:54):
And then it never helped.
Or I would get, well, you're taking so much medication and we can't figure out the answer,so we're gonna send a psychiatrist down here.
And so it was just like to the point that I was like, nobody's helping me and my family istrying what they can.
Well, you should try this, you should try this, or I'm gonna say this and this willencourage you when really just.
(37:18):
piss me off or whatever.
So it was just, I was angry at everyone because I was like, you keep saying you're goingto fix it.
You're not doing anything.
Or I don't want to hear that.
Or don't ask me how I'm feeling.
I still feel crappy, you know?
So it was just this, Oh man, it was just awful because not only was I in the most pain I'dbeen in my entire life, I was having like seizures and twitching and all kinds of like
(37:47):
crazy embarrassing symptoms.
And then I couldn't take care of my kids.
And then I just, it was like, have exhausted the medical system, natural all the way to,you know, mainstream.
We've done it all.
And that was when I really was like, you know, it's easier for me to believe that Goddoesn't exist than he would allow this to happen.
(38:14):
And that's where I was at.
and I was so depressed and I know some of the medications I was on were messing with mythoughts too and I had to, you know, talk to doctors and be like, I'm having suicidal
thoughts that I don't think are mine.
I think it's medicine.
Like I was alert enough to know, I don't think this is me.
(38:37):
And so I did get the help and I did get the things adjusted, but I was just like, I'venever been so down in my entire life.
I've never been so questioning everything I've grown up in my entire life.
And I just had that unsettling thought of like, well, maybe God's not real.
And I knew that didn't settle well with me.
(38:58):
And so I thought, well, if I believe he's good and I believe he's allowing this, thenthere's only one conclusion I can draw from that.
And it's like, just cause he's allowing it doesn't mean he's not good.
So if he's still good,
What does this mean?
And so from there that launched into maybe I don't know God as well as I thought I did.
(39:20):
I want to know him more.
I want to know what's the purpose in this pain.
And so instead of just being like, when can I sleep this off?
How can I sleep this off?
It became how can I use this right now to keep going?
Because it went on for so long.
I was like, I don't know.
I might be like this the rest of my life.
So what am I going to do with this?
(39:41):
And it just gave me that purpose to just take care of myself and stop just waiting foreverybody to fix it, putting my trust in everybody else.
And honestly, it gave my health back focusing on my spiritual growth.
And I don't necessarily say because I like prayed the special prayer or something, but Ithink that God gives us wisdom that we...
(40:09):
don't have ears to see and I mean ears to hear and eyes to see when we are so focused onbeing in control of fixing things and when we give it over to him he gives us so much
wisdom of what to do next and how to help ourselves and that's when I dug into self-careand actual if if I'm gonna go spiritually I need to understand the Bible more and I
(40:33):
started opening and I started doing all those things that take care of yourself.
when I get angry, what's, am I going to go throw stuff in the backyard or am I going to,you know, start up meditation or whatever it needs to be?
So it's like, it was never an easy, easy fix, but the only thing that did fix it wascomplete surrender to him and being like, I want to know you Lord, because I know you're
(41:01):
good.
So I want, I want something good to come out of this.
And right now I don't struggle with any of that stuff.
mean, it's goodness, probably three years since I've had a bad flare up and that happened.
My daughter's 10 now.
So that went on for a long time, but it slowly got better.
And it's been one of those things that gives me compassion for people struggling withtheir faith instead of judgment.
(41:28):
gives me one of the, it's one of those things that gives me strength.
When I go through something new, it's like,
I understand this struggle in a way that I didn't before.
It's not an attack on me.
God's not attacking me, but he is gonna be here to help me through this.
So there, don't know exactly how to wrap that story up besides I'm in a really good place.
(41:55):
I have a much deeper trust and faith in God and.
This is why I'm so passionate about biblical literacy because I don't want people to waituntil they get to a point like that, that they're like, okay, I need to figure this out.
Figure it out now.
Make it a practice, make it a priority.
And you don't have to follow the traditional rules.
(42:17):
I write, I journal, I doodle in my Bible and I own like 10 of them.
Just get in the word however you wanna do it because if you're not gonna do it foryourself, just do it for yourself.
Because you can't help others if you can't help yourself.
And there's so much beauty in just meeting him in those pages, even if you're not, even ifyour physical is not better.
(42:47):
Man, working on that spiritual health was a game changer and it brings you so much morepeace than just trying to have a doctor chase symptoms.
Good grief.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I, I mean, anybody, you know, I talk about this a lot and just the reality is, isthat anybody who's lived long enough, uh, is going to experience trials and suffering and
(43:12):
pain and, um, illness and loss.
And it can be really hard to see God in those moments.
Um, but like you said, um, I mean, for me, like when I was going through, uh, when we lostour two babies and we.
were going through secondary infertility issues and just all kinds of things like that.
(43:34):
Like that was actually the year that I had set out to read the Bible from cover to cover.
And it was in those moments of like in my darkest moments when I'm reading Job, you know,and when I'm in my darkest moments and I'm reading, you know, Genesis and I'm seeing like,
how did God let this happen to Joseph?
But you know, it wasn't until I really dug into it that I'm like, wait a second.
(43:56):
It says that God was with him.
God was with him.
And it's just like, God was with Joseph when he, God was with Joseph when he, God was withJoseph when he, like still bad stuff happened, but God was with him at the whole time.
And so it's, it's that reminder of like, you are not alone.
God is with you.
but you have to, yeah.
(44:16):
let Jesus not have to deal with that stuff.
He took that on because he loves us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just such an encouragement.
And I know that for so many people who are listening, have, you know, have gone throughthat are going through that will go through that, like just that reminder of just remember
that he is with you.
(44:37):
And you just have to slow down long enough to be able to, to look for him and to hear hisvoice.
Amy, this has been so good.
I would love for you to just share where people can
connect with you where they can find all those amazing stick figure resources and just howthey can, you know, again, start their own journey for biblical literacy and all that.
(45:05):
Yeah, I want to keep it simple.
I'm Amy Center and so my website is amycenter.com and probably the best way honestly tolike figure out where my resources are, where my social is, just subscribe.
If you go on amycenter.com there will be a pop-up or you can go forward slash subscribebut usually there's a pop-up to subscribe and make it really easy and I've got actually a
(45:30):
free printable
that is reading the chronological order of the New Testament this year.
And so some people are like, well, what about New Test, or what'd I say, Old Testament?
I don't know what I said.
The Old Testament, the Old Testament this year.
I got ahead of myself and my thoughts.
Woo, okay, creative people, scatterbrain.
But I organize it for you in chronological order, the Old Testament for 2025, and thenwe'll do the New Testament next year.
(45:56):
But that's a totally free resource.
And I don't have it where it's like some of these studies are like day one read this.
It's just a general read this in this month so that you can read it in chunks however youwant.
All my stuff super flexible, very structured.
I think you'll really enjoy it.
And then I have free lessons on YouTube where I teach a method I call the simple methodand that stands for all these things and I walk you through them.
(46:22):
so much fun stuff.
We're goofy.
We're serious.
We're all the things but amycenter.com.
I'll get you hooked up if you subscribe over there.
I love it.
love it.
Thank you so much for being here, Amy.
You're awesome.
Thank you so much.
Appreciate you having me on here.
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