May 7, 2025 • 40 mins
I’m thrilled to welcome back my friend, Whitney English, to the show today! She is an author, artist, and self-proclaimed reluctant expert in surviving family drama with grace... and a glue gun.
Whitney is known for telling the truth with humor, finding beauty in the mess, and believing that good stories and good design can heal just about anything- whether she’s organizing a junk drawer or untangling generational dysfunction.
Her new book, Organize First, Decorate Second, is out now, and today, we’re diving into everything from the psychology of organization and decoration to practical tips you can use in your own home. So, grab a cup of coffee and get ready for an episode packed with inspiration and fun. I’m so excited for you to hear it!
3:19 – Whitney 201
• Navigating a busy season
• Releasing a new book
• Seeing evidence of God in difficult times
5:21 – Organize First, Decorate Second
• The deeper philosophy behind Whitney’s book
• Balancing sentimentality and organization
• The importance of functional items
16:38 – Making Home
• Whitney’s journey of house hopping
• How Whitney stays organized with ADHD
• Practical tips for organization
36:52 – Takeaways
• Rapid fire questions with Whitney
• Connecting with Whitney
• Get your copy of Organize First, Decorate Second
FEATURED QUOTES
“Just because we've been through some hard stuff doesn't mean that God isn't good.”
"I think that if you have a big dream… it is okay to make a slow decision about it."
“Function is beautiful.”
Learn more about Whitney:
https://whitneyenglish.com/
Get your copy of Organize First, Decorate Second:
https://www.amazon.com/Organize-First-Decorate-Second-Creativity/dp/0785251960
Whitney on Social Media:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WhitneyEnglish/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whitneyenglish/?hl=en
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Well, it's a fun day because I have my friend, which I call her my friend because, youknow, once you come on my podcast, you're my friend.
My friend Whitney English on the show.
She's been on the show before.
So that means it's time for the presentation of the virtual Velvet Jacket, the two-timeclub on the podcast.
(00:22):
Whitney, welcome.
I'm so glad that you're here.
Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
What color is the velvet jacket so I can get like a nice visual on that?
so it's really guest dependent.
But I envision it like a deep forest green.
I'm into like a deep emerald, deep forest green type color.
(00:45):
And then it has a nice patch with my face on it.
It's great.
So it's very coveted.
It's very fancy.
It is very exclusive.
I totally think we should manifest this.
I really, I've joked about it for so many years now that I'm like, I really need to likehire a seamstress to make me an actual velvet jacket for my two jackets.
(01:10):
This is doable.
We can strategize how we're gonna actually make this happen after we get done recording.
Yeah, we're making it happen.
Well, but we have to start off this episode by having you do it all of my second timeguests do and that's give me the Whitney 201.
So the who you are what you do since the last time we talked, which is I guess I don'teven remember is a couple years ago.
(01:34):
I mean, I was living in this house.
So it's within the last four years, but can't I honestly at this point, I'll be honest.
I don't know what it was.
It could have been last year three years ago.
Yeah, you've changed the podcast name since I last talked to you.
so then that would be at least two years.
Yes, was probably so it was probably left for last book launch which was in 2022.
(01:56):
So three years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just feels like yesterday.
I know, time flies for sure.
It has been on a personal level, it's been a really long three years.
I love my husband, but we have been through one of those marriage seasons where life hitsyou because we've got, I still have three children, thank the Lord, ages 15, 14 and 12.
(02:33):
and, know, so we're busy with kids.
I've written this next book and it's actually launching tomorrow.
So we're recording this on Monday, the 28th.
It's launching, April 29th.
And, I'm excited.
I'm really excited about it.
I mean, you know, I'm one of those people that when the hard stuff hits, I think about.
(02:58):
When Paul talks about in the Bible, you know, I thank God for trials of many kinds andeven, you know, through gritted teeth.
And just because we've been through some hard stuff doesn't mean that God isn't good andwe haven't seen him there.
If not, you know, if anything, I feel like sometimes it means that you see more evidenceof him in your life because you just start looking for it.
(03:19):
And that's something to be grateful for in and of itself.
And I'm still laughing.
I mean, that's...
That's good, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so obviously, one of the reasons that you are coming back on the show is because asyou just said, when we're recording this, your new book, Organized First Decorate Second
(03:48):
comes out tomorrow, which congratulations on birthing another book, baby.
Huge, huge, huge deal.
Well, so obviously, like this, you know, from a titling.
perspective, you know, someone might just think like, this is a book about like, homeorganization and home decoration.
But there's obviously a lot more to this.
There's there's a lot of principles and foundational elements that are beneath the surfacefor this.
(04:16):
So I'm kind of curious, like, this book at this time coming out of this season, this isclearly a philosophy that goes a little bit deeper than just like
organization and decoration.
can you kind of talk about your thought process behind that and what like why this now?
Mm-hmm.
Well, so I have a degree in interior design and I have always loved home.
(04:41):
I think that, you know, I thought that...
Well, first of all, like I failed everything in school that didn't have anything to dowith drawing a picture.
I turned in my math homework, I kid you not, with little sketches of like gumball machinesand counting gumballs.
I mean, and this is not like in elementary school.
(05:01):
This is full on ninth, 10th, 11th grade.
Just hoping that the teacher would be like, well, at least she showed her work, know,showed her work, air quotes.
Gumball machine is not considered your work, Winnie.
Yes, it is.
So then I had to pick a major.
(05:23):
remember, I'm just going to tell you all the stories about how I got to a book about home.
So my parents took me to Oklahoma State University.
I remember being in the car on the way home.
I wanted to be an architect.
had been drawing floor plans on my homework since I was in second grade.
(05:44):
I just melted down.
was like, I cannot do the math on this architecture thing.
mean, full on like heaving tears, the whole, and so my parents were like, okay, we cansolve this.
Like they, have other degrees.
And so we figured out interior design and got me enrolled in that.
And I thought that I was going to meet a guy in college and then we were going to getmarried and have kids and that my job was going to be to decorate his house.
(06:13):
That's kind of.
what my mom had done.
I was the oldest daughter.
I just kind of thought that that's what you did.
Like I had just, was a good little Christian girl and you just followed all the steps andthose were the steps, you know?
And so four years later I'm graduating.
I'm graduating with a broken heart.
The guy that I thought was the one, it turned out to not be.
(06:36):
And so I graduated in 2001.
And so I moved to Dallas and
Then 9-11 happened, so I graduated in May.
9-11 happens in September, so the bottom falls out of the interior design market.
No one's hiring designers of any kind.
And I moved back to Oklahoma, moved back in with my parents, so I'm not married.
(06:58):
I don't have any way to practice this degree.
And I guess that would technically have been my first failure, although I think I wasprobably too naive to realize.
Maybe I was just giving myself
grace because it was like, Hey, Whitney, you're still getting started in life.
But one thing led to another.
I ended up working at a stationary company, a stationary shop, like a local stationarystore where I had worked out all the way through high school and college.
(07:23):
And my boss was like, you can draw pretty well.
You should design invitations.
So I started a wholesale stationary company.
20 years later, I have not done anything with home.
I've tried here and there.
You know, so my editors are like, what do you want to write a book about?
I'm like, I really want to write a book about home.
Well, they're strategic.
And so they come along and they're like, well, we're always looking for the next greatorganization book.
(07:45):
And so writing the book kind of became this, it really became a very expressive effort forhow do I talk about this thing that I'm passionate about, that I miss?
Like, I really have never been able to exercise.
my decorating skills.
I did air quotes on that for those who are listening.
(08:08):
I have not been able to, I feel like I haven't been able to do it in my own home.
I mean, a lot of people are gonna, you're looking at like curtains and stuff on wallsbehind, you you can say, well, wait, what do you mean by that?
But I really just wanted to talk about that and explore some of those ideas about like whyhome has meant so much to me and.
(08:29):
where I've struggled with it.
And I've told people like this book, and I say this in the opening pages of the book, likethis is a book about me wrestling with my love of stuff and the need to organize it.
You know?
So that's where it came from.
Well, I love that.
And you describe early on in the book, a love of stuff with stories.
(08:51):
so balancing sentimentality for a need for organized space.
And I'll be honest, like that is something I relate to so much.
You know, especially as somebody and I have a friend who's like a minimalist and she haslike this minimalism podcast.
And but we talk about this, we've talked about this some because
we both lost our moms at different ages, but you know, it's balancing this, like sometimeslike I have some stuff that was my mom's that I'm like, I don't really want to get rid of
(09:18):
this, but also like, I need this.
know, so there's, and that is a constant struggle for so many people.
and I just, as we, know, you know, and then it's when you become a, you know, you getmarried and you have.
kids and you know, grandparents die or you know, there's just there's all that we just weacquire stuff.
(09:40):
And for better for worse, much time, many times for worse, we acquire stuff and a lot ofthis stuff has stories and so but the reality is, is a lot of times it just contributes to
anxiety and clutter and stress and all of those things.
And so there's a like psychological piece to this that isn't just like, how do you
(10:03):
incorporate really nice things that have a, you know, impactful story in your home.
Like there's, there's a lot more beneath the surface.
So how do you kind of strike that balance of sentimentality with also this need for anorganized space and your love for interior decorating?
That's a great question.
And when you were talking, I actually thought of a story that I have not thought of inrelation to this before, but this is a really good example.
(10:28):
Yeah.
So when my grandparents passed away, my sister was married with kids.
I was married.
This is my dad's parents.
And they were people who also had a lot of stuff.
I jokingly say in the book, like, I come by this hoarder gene, like on both sides.
Like it really is going to...
(10:49):
It is ingrained in me as something I'm going to have to fight for the rest of my life.
And the way they, they divvied up the estate or whatever.
And I mean, we're not talking, I mean, my grandmother was a wonderful woman, she didn't, Ithink she had a collection of hummels.
You remember those little, the little hummels, the little figurine kind of things.
And I just have never been into that kind of stuff.
(11:12):
Like you have to dust those things or wash them or then they chip, especially if you'remarried to a bull.
in a china closet, which I am.
And God love him.
So, but my sister said we went through the house.
What they did was like the kids got to, they went through the house around and then thegrandkids got to go through the house around and you just, you were just allowed to go
(11:35):
after the kids had gone through, then the grandkids went through and then there wereactually great grandkids.
So then they went through and lots of grandkids.
And so,
And there wasn't really anything nice in the first place, but my sister said, I got aPyrex pan and a cast iron skillet.
And I was like, that is genius.
(11:55):
Because there's something about inheriting that function that really does represent whatI'm talking about in the book.
I don't need the collection of hummels that I'm going to have to dust or store in a chinacabinet or, you know,
But every time I pull out that cast iron skillet, that's probably nearing a hundred yearsold at this point, like now that I think about it.
(12:22):
You know, I think about my grandmother cooking fried okra in that, my dad, you know, it'snot the same cast iron skillet we had as, that I used growing up when my dad taught me how
to fry potatoes and stuff like that.
But, and then there was a Pyrex pan I picked up too, and it had my grandmother's name.
She had taken a
(12:43):
a knife or something and in the pyrex she had scrawled her name.
So it says Louise English.
And I still have that.
think it's definitely made it to some like potlucks at church and friends houses andcasseroles.
And I will say like, I do need that pyrex back because it does.
(13:04):
But it also has my grandmother's name scrawled in it.
It says Louise English.
If the friend is like washing it, she's going to be like, this is Whitney's pant.
Yeah, exactly.
So, yeah, so I mean, yeah, the idea of it, like, if you're listening and you have to likeinherit something, like ask for a functional thing you can inherit.
Yeah, absolutely.
(13:25):
Yeah, I think those, yeah, like our plates that we eat on, like our dinner plates, I ateon those when I was a kid and my parents ate on them when they were kids.
So like they are passed down, yeah, for a very long time.
So they're the, they're the blue and white, they're very iconic blue and white, Currierand Ives dishes.
(13:50):
Yeah.
But we have,
all of them, the plates, the bowls, the tiny plates, all of it.
Yeah, so we have all of them and those are our everyday plates.
And I mean, that's what I remember eating on as a kid.
And then I remember I got older and my dad was like, I'm not going to use these anymore.
Do you want them?
I was like, heck yeah, I do.
I love them so much.
(14:11):
And then, you know, it's fun because now if I'm in a thrift store, an antique store, and Icome across, you know, a piece I'm missing, I'm like, look, it's, you know, it's something
to go along with my mom.
I have a question.
I have another question.
Do they chip?
yeah, I definitely have ones that have chipped,
okay.
So we have Blue Willow as our everyday.
(14:34):
And I grew up eating on them.
It's called Churchill Blue Willow.
I've always wondered about the Courier & Ives chipping because the Churchill brand of BlueWillow plates barely chips, barely.
But Courier & Ives is, I see that stuff at thrift stores, at estate sales all the time.
Just one piece here or there.
I mean, if I had bought every single piece of Courier and Ives that I've ever seen, onepiece, I don't know who collected this stuff and how it ended up getting so dispersed
(15:04):
across America, but if somebody's listening and they want to start collecting something,blue Courier and Ives is a really good thing to start collecting, because there are random
pieces of it out there everywhere.
Yeah, and there and there was like whole Facebook groups.
But then it's like, it's weird, because then there are some pieces that are super rarethat I have that are worth like a ton of money.
(15:26):
But I don't want to get rid of them.
Like I really, I have a couple rare pieces that just, you know, are not as easy to find aslike plates and bowls and things like that.
Again, they were my mom's and so I'm like, I know, I want to get rid these.
I use them.
But yes, they do chip but I'm like, character personality.
Yeah, patina.
(15:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, so, you know, the reality is, is like our, like you were saying, you know, ourfamilies are where we come from, how we grew up, all of these things shape us and our
homes shape us, our environments shape us.
And you talk a lot in your book about how your home shapes you, it shapes your family.
(16:12):
And so I'm curious for you, like I loved hearing your story of how
you know, it took a long time for you to kind of really lean into the interior designelement of, you know, what you went to college for.
But I'm curious, like, how has your own home environment evolved over the years and howhas it shaped you, your marriage, your kids, and, you know, what growth have you seen in
(16:36):
that?
What growth have I seen in how my home has shaped us?
I think, so we spent, and I do talk about this in the book a little bit, we spent aboutfour years doing a lot of house hopping, unintentional.
We sold a home that we had lived in, that I had owned for nine years.
(17:03):
Kind of to chase a dream, we wanted to move, I talk about this in the book, but we wantedto move to this new urbanist town in the middle of nowhere, Oklahoma.
It just seemed so beautiful and charming.
we're so glad we did that, but we did learn a lot.
So we moved, we bought a lot, we gonna build.
And then that ended up being cost prohibitive.
(17:26):
I think one of the things you can say I've learned is that,
If you have a big dream, if that dream is gonna cost over $100,000, it is okay to make aslow decision about it.
Like you don't have to rush off and be like, oh, we have to this right now, you know?
So slower big decisions, faster little decisions.
(17:50):
That's something, that is something I've learned in this house, house journey.
And we've sort of landed almost because we just had to.
We just had to quit moving.
Like where our kids are in ages, we just had to stop moving.
(18:10):
And so...
were sort of making do.
I was actually thinking about this the other day.
The house before this one, we had built and it was built for me to decorate.
It was a blank slate, basically.
Like I had picked from the foundation up, like we had picked all, and it was small andcompact and I was gonna, and then the pandemic hit.
(18:37):
And so a lot of the decorating money actually got spent.
on that house, if that makes any sense, because then we kind of had to pivot just becausewe didn't have enough space.
mean, it was five and we were, we didn't have adult sized children when we moved into thathouse.
And then all of a sudden, 18 months later, we did have adult sized children and apandemic.
(19:00):
And we're trying to figure out how everybody is supposed to have conversations in a zerolot line, 2,600 square foot house.
It probably would have been
okay if it wasn't zero lot line.
We could have like put a shed in the yard, like a writing shed or a zoom shed wheresomebody could have gone to in the middle of all that chaos.
(19:24):
But it was a very open concept small house that we just had no space.
So anyway, the pendulum kind of swung and we ended up on two acres in a very still small,but spread out house.
At least it was spread out.
And so now in some ways it feels like we're making do.
(19:46):
Like I really do wish I could have the bamboo blinds that I spent a real nice chunk ofchange on in that last house.
And so anyway, it does feel like a journey.
And I guess sometimes that's hard.
Sometimes maybe I am a little bit sad about that and then I take my meds and we're allgood.
(20:10):
Well, I feel like that's a good, because it was just something I wanted to ask you aboutanyway.
And because you talk in your book pretty openly about having ADHD.
And you talk about it as a factor in your struggle with organization.
And I feel like there's more attention and things being talked about with this as areality.
(20:30):
There's so many times we think we talk about kids with ADHD.
And we don't talk about the fact that there are
a lot of adults that have to function in everyday society that have ADHD and that canreally contribute to feeling disorganized, feeling kind of chaotic.
So I'm curious, you being so open about this, how has your ADHD kind of factored into yourstruggle or maybe success with organization?
(20:57):
How have you kind of like adapted your different methods to work with your brain ratherthan against it?
And what would you say to somebody who either
is also diagnosed with ADHD or is like, you know, maybe an adult is undiagnosed and islike, I probably have ADHD.
We heard something like that, kind of on a spectrum.
How have you used that as more as fuel rather than an hindrance?
(21:21):
So it's so interesting that you asked that because I don't think I was prepared.
When I was writing the book, I mentioned in one of the first drafts, like, hello ADHD.
And my editors were like, no, you can't just say that.
you're not allowed to, they didn't, and I was like, no, I'm diagnosed.
I am allowed.
You know, like they were trying to edit that out.
(21:43):
And I was like, no, no, no, no.
Like that's an actual diagnosis.
And they were like, okay.
So let's leave it in.
But I wasn't, I don't know that I'm,
totally prepared to talk about it.
I'm really surprised at the number of questions that have come up about that becausethat's the way my brain is.
(22:03):
That's just who I am and always has been and always will be.
So the idea that I've had to hack my way around that to get to some semblance of normalisn't, it's not something I, even the
It was almost just like, just felt like people needed to know that that was a challengethat I do face.
(22:26):
And I don't know that in this book, I came up with an answer for that challenge.
I was listening to a podcast last night where they were talking about it was some womanwho has ADHD, but she's also a scientist.
And so she's done all this research on this.
And I was listening.
to her describe it and just kind of realizing like I have not listened to a bunch ofpodcasts on it.
(22:50):
I really have not tried, I have been, have realized it's almost like it's been a hall passfor me as like, you know, so if a friend drops by and there's clutter everywhere or I'm,
you know, a project that I didn't put away yesterday or last week or a month before, youknow, I just go.
(23:13):
ADHD, know, and laugh it off and keep going.
But now I'm kind of starting.
So many people have asked me about this in interviews about the book that I.
Yeah, that I'm like, OK, I need to I need to actually think about this.
And it was really interesting listening to this podcast last night, the way this womantalked about.
(23:36):
And it made me think about childhood, about maybe that there.
were frustrations that were in organized first decorate second, I talk about some of thetensions between my mom and I.
And last night listening to this was the first time I thought maybe some of those tensionswere there because my brain just thinks in circles and a lot of people think in straight
(23:59):
lines, you know?
And so if anything, I think it's given me empathy for...
other people.
And if that makes me a better writer, and if I can continue to write and continue toexplore and chase these ideas, then maybe I'll have a better answer for you on that
question in the future.
mean, I appreciate your honesty.
(24:20):
And it's one of those things that like I'm actually maybe I'm surprised that that'ssomething you've been asked a lot about because it's not something I've ever even like, I
don't even think I've even had a conversation with anybody on the show about it.
But I just thought it was so interesting as I was kind of, you know, reading through yourbook and, just as I was thinking about it.
And then when you mentioned the meds thing, I was just like, well, you know what, maybeI'm gonna follow this thread and ask about it, because I think it is something that isn't
(24:43):
necessarily talked about a lot and
and can be a real struggle for people, especially when they're trying to manage theirspace around them.
you know, so many contributing factors.
I have a friend who's, who is an adult who was diagnosed with ADHD, you know, and so it'ssomething that she's been really intentional about in like, because she works from home.
(25:06):
And so she's like, I get distracted really easily.
And I really intentional about how I set up my home office and all this.
So just got me thinking about that.
so I'm really interested.
That's just, I just find it, I find it very interesting.
And like I said, I'm always somebody who just kind of like, follow, I follow threads.
well, okay.
So with that being said, you know, again, the whole concept of this is this organizedfirst and decorate second.
(25:33):
And so, what do you feel like is, because I think for a lot of people, there might be amisconception that organization or really focusing on organization is.
restrictive, or almost, yeah, like less fun, rather than actually freeing and can cancontribute to more freedom and how your home is set up or whatever.
(26:02):
So how do you feel?
How do you kind of fight against those misconceptions and helping people to see no, thisis this philosophy is actually really important.
Okay, also a funny question.
And I was thinking about this yesterday too.
I think that that, this is one reason why I'm really excited about this book is becauseyou write this book and you're having all these thoughts in your head and then you put it
(26:26):
out there and it's the day you put it out there that you kind of start to realize like, isanybody else actually interested in this at all?
Is there a collective, is there a cultural conversation to have around these things?
If I put myself out there and just say like, these are the things that I've struggledwith.
And I'm so encouraged because even in doing podcast interviews and stuff like that, I'mlike, yeah, there are other conversations that we can have around some of the things that
(26:53):
I explore.
So I'm really, it's a different kind of excitement than I was excited about my first book.
because I'm really passionate about home.
So, but to answer your question, I think that, so my son and I were cleaning out a closetyesterday and filming a video about it for,
(27:14):
for a book launch thing.
And I realized that one of the things that drives me crazy about, it's like when you gointo somebody's house and if it's, this is not judgment by the way.
And I didn't talk about this in the book, but if you're listening to this and this is you,I just need you to know that I'm not judging you at all.
(27:37):
But if you go to somebody's house and it's perfectly decorated.
Like I babysat for some amazing families growing up and they hired professionaldecorators.
had these gorgeous homes.
And then you would like go into the laundry room to find the coloring books and thecrayons and you would open the cabinets and it was just like, know?
(27:57):
And I guess for a long time I thought, okay, who cares?
You know, who cares about what's happening?
And really at the root of this is a...
desire for perfection that I hope I in the book, if you've gotten to the last chapter, Ihope I, I hope I come, I hope that this is all wrapped up in the book.
(28:18):
But, but the idea of being like, okay, yeah, you're the house is beautiful, likeabsolutely drop dead gorgeous, but we can't even enjoy coloring books and crayons and
markers and, and then for I think the average American family, it's sort of
(28:38):
practical to be like, let's just go buy more.
Let's just go to Five Below.
We'll just go buy more crayons and coloring books.
When you have said, now I have plenty of disastrous cabinets.
have, mean, the closet we cleaned out yesterday, I have one more.
actually we were gonna mention that in the book.
(28:59):
The editors were like, we don't think everybody knows what the Monica Geller closet is.
I'm like, what?
Everyone knows.
Everyone over the age of 35 knows.
That's who matters.
Right?
No, that's it.
That's it.
It's the Monica Geller closet, you know, and but there's also something really satisfyingand very beautiful about pulling all the stuff out of that closet and putting it back.
(29:24):
And even yesterday, my daughter had to go to a birthday party.
My son and I had cleaned out the closet.
It was the gift wrap closet.
We had put the gift wrap back.
My daughter needed to go pick out gift wrap to wrap for the birthday gift.
She walked into the closet, didn't have to step over anything.
It's a walk in, we call it the linen closet.
(29:45):
Didn't have to trip over anything.
Walked straight up to the gift wrap.
Was able to pull the gift wrap out of the box and be like, this is the one I want to use.
And it was just a very nice, satisfying, you know?
Like, look at us.
That's, yes, like function is beautiful.
You know, and then I think on the decorating side of things, I have taken it to the nthdegree where I'm like, even super functional things can, you can make an aesthetic choice
(30:15):
about them.
You know, so why are we going to buy plastic handled scissors when we can buy brasshandled metal scissors?
We have both in this house, you know, but I do love beautiful functional things and notjust plastic stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
completely agree.
Completely agree.
Well, I wanted to, so I want to end the show with some rapid fire this or that questions.
(30:40):
I thought that would be fun.
Switch it up.
But before we get into that, I thought it would be just good and helpful to do some kindof practical actionable.
So kind of leaving people with, you we've kind of talked about the philosophy behind this.
We've kind of gotten the foundation out in the foundational aspect, but
I feel like with something like this, leaving people with something a little bitpractical, a little more actionable might be helpful.
(31:06):
So for somebody who may be like, this is a brand new concept and feels very overwhelmed,especially talking to like a busy mom or a busy dad.
What is like a quick, let's say like five to 10 minute habit that someone can implement intheir home that
(31:27):
would help them feel instantly more organized.
I like to hinge things like that on my morning routine.
So most of us get up, we run to the little girl's room, then we go brush our teeth or washour face, whatever.
(31:51):
So right there in that moment is when I would plug something in and it might depend onwhat your needs are.
It might be this idea of like, I'm gonna look around me and pick up something that needsto be put away.
It might be...
(32:11):
that you're going to put in.
probably just plug in, this is what I would do, I would just plug in a little five minutewindow right there where you're gonna go tidy something.
Like that's what you have to do.
And so yes, it may start in your bathroom, but then eventually if all that gets relativelytidy, you're gonna have that little window that can then go to other spaces beyond that.
(32:39):
And if it's a bad day, like if you're me, you might spend that five minutes just puttingclothes back on a hanger, I don't know.
But I would plug it in right there for sure.
And just do a 10 minute tidy.
Set a timer.
Just make yourself put on some, ooh, you know what else has really helped?
(33:00):
This is not an idea I came up with.
Someone else came up.
Put on shoes that tie.
interesting.
Like not flip-flops, like actual like tennis, like sports shoes, whatever.
They have to tie, put them on to do your work around your house.
It does help.
(33:20):
So I'm curious, like, if you have like inside shoes.
Your house shoes.
Your house shoes.
Yeah, but they can't be like house shoe house shoes.
They have to have like laces.
That is so interesting.
love, I wonder what's behind that.
That's so interesting.
(33:40):
Okay, well, so you talk a lot in your book about routines and rituals.
So what is a daily routine for you that is just been like life, life changing, lifesaving?
that morning, like the idea of like, okay, I get up and I, if there's anything consistent,I mean, that's whenever I had to really think about how routines could benefit me, I had
(34:03):
to think, I had to start in the morning with, because my routine falls apart throughoutthe day.
just, it's very creative.
I love the variety.
I love chasing the rabbits, literally and figuratively.
And so I hinge everything on that morning routine.
that's so good.
That's so good.
Starting the morning strong.
(34:24):
Okay, so we've talked some about these sentimental items and stuff with stories.
So what is your advice for someone who finds it hard to part with things like that aren'tnecessarily decorative?
So things like old letters or like memorabilia trophies, like things from childhood,things like that.
(34:48):
Well, trophies can be really cute decorating items, especially if they're grouped togetherin a collection.
that's what I say with trinkets, like small things is like, go find like a little glasscase that hangs on the wall and just if it's under three inches tall and looks like a
Hummel or a Precious Moment or something like that, like just put it all in one place, youknow, because then it's not just trinkets.
(35:13):
It's like, that's the memory cabinet.
Check the box.
move on, know, all that stuff can go in there.
If it's letters, I will be, I will, I struggle with that.
I have like two bins of photos that I just, there's really nothing to do with them.
But I mean, now there's so much on our phones, which is nice.
(35:35):
Like we have not continued to accumulate photos.
Another thing that I would say about sentimental stuff is how can you use it to decorate?
If you have letters from,
from a relative or something like that.
Maybe you wrap them up in a really pretty French silk ribbon and it looks like, you framethem in a shadow box and hang them in your bathroom or, you know, how can you turn those
(36:02):
things into something decorative?
Because if you can't really, I can't help you on the boxes of photos, because I have thattoo.
I just can tell you that, but we do,
I do believe in putting family photos on the walls.
I actually think that's really important for kids and confidence levels and things likethat, and for stories in the house.
(36:25):
So print those pictures and pull them out.
Yeah, so try to decorate with it, I guess, is the answer to that one.
I love that.
Okay.
And then my last of these questions is what is maybe the most underrated or like mostneglected space in a home that people tend to organize last or maybe they don't even at
(36:48):
all, but it actually can make a really huge impact.
Impact last.
I feel like we all sort of have like a junk room.
Like there's a, everybody has a drop zone.
Everybody has a place where now you might have a giant drop zone that's called a junk roomor you might have, but I mean, we all have corners where we put things and that's what my
(37:18):
son and I were doing yesterday.
It was just this closet that just, it accumulates stuff and.
And I really think that anytime you can get into those spaces and just add a semblance oforganization, you're going to elevate everything.
Don't ask me to help you do it, but like that's why they have people at the containerstore that will like measure these things and tell you they will.
(37:45):
They will actually, the containers will actually tell you what to do exactly what to do ifyou take a picture of your crappy garage and take it to them.
And it will be expensive.
but it will be done and it will feel really good.
And then you will have to do it again because that is life.
And I am sorry, but I am there with you and send me a picture when you get it done.
Cause I need that satisfying.
We need that.
We got to share the wins because I feel like that's what keeps us all going, you know?
(38:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so as we wrap up, we're gonna do a just rapid fire this or that question.
So it's just whatever first comes to mind.
All right, you ready?
No, those are practical actionable steps.
All right, this is the rapid fire though, I promise.
so baskets or bins?
(38:33):
Labels or no labels?
Open shelves or closed cabinets?
Open shelves.
That's a hard one.
Yeah.
is hard one.
That one's a that one that has people on both sides with very strong feelings.
(38:54):
Donate or sell?
So.
monochromatic or color.
monochromatic.
Organize the pantry or closet first.
Pantry.
Do you like minimalist or cozy?
(39:16):
Cozy.
Do you do a command center or do you do like a big calendar?
Neither.
neither.
DIY or hire it out.
DIY.
under the bed storage or attic storage.
(39:40):
under the bed.
Are you all about fresh flowers or house plants?
houseplants.
Ooh, okay.
The junk drawer.
We all have one.
Do you organize it or do you ignore it?
(40:00):
Until it just gets so bad that eventually you just have to like clean it out.
Okay, coffee table books or do you like a clean surface?
Happy Table Books.
Do you like matching sets or are you more of a mix and match type of person?
Mix and match.
(40:22):
quick tidy every day or big clean every week.
Quick tidy.
Do you start organizing in the kitchen or start organizing in your bedroom?
on the book, I had to make a call on this in the book and I actually can't remember what Isaid, but today I'm going to say kitchen.
(40:43):
All right, two more, two more.
One giant purge, like get rid of a lot, or kind of a slow and steady purge.
Okay, and then last one is, you a sentimental saver or a ruthless editor?
I'm a ruthless editor.
all right.
All right.
That was that was my rapid fire questions.
You did great.
(41:03):
You did great.
Very proud of you.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I had fun putting those together.
I was like trying to think through I was like, what would be fun?
Well, Whitney, this has been so much fun.
It's always fun having you on the show.
So everyone go get this book now.
Organize first, decorate second.
Whitney, where can people follow you and connect with you and get the book and all ofthose sorts of things?
(41:25):
So my website is WhitneyEnglish.
can find and click all the links from there.
I am on Instagram, but I've also been really enjoying Substack lately.
So I'm interested to see how the conversation angle of things might continue over there.
That will be fun.
Awesome, awesome.
Whitney, this was so much fun.
Thank you so much for being here.
(41:46):
Thank you.
Thank you, Molly.
I've loved it.
Thank you.
Well, it's a fun day because I have my friend, which I call her my friend because, youknow, once you come on my podcast, you're my friend.
My friend Whitney English on the show.
She's been on the show before.
So that means it's time for the presentation of the virtual Velvet Jacket, the two-timeclub on the podcast.
(00:22):
Whitney, welcome.
I'm so glad that you're here.
Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
What color is the velvet jacket so I can get like a nice visual on that?
so it's really guest dependent.
But I envision it like a deep forest green.
I'm into like a deep emerald, deep forest green type color.
(00:45):
And then it has a nice patch with my face on it.
It's great.
So it's very coveted.
It's very fancy.
It is very exclusive.
I totally think we should manifest this.
I really, I've joked about it for so many years now that I'm like, I really need to likehire a seamstress to make me an actual velvet jacket for my two jackets.
(01:10):
This is doable.
We can strategize how we're gonna actually make this happen after we get done recording.
Yeah, we're making it happen.
Well, but we have to start off this episode by having you do it all of my second timeguests do and that's give me the Whitney 201.
So the who you are what you do since the last time we talked, which is I guess I don'teven remember is a couple years ago.
(01:34):
I mean, I was living in this house.
So it's within the last four years, but can't I honestly at this point, I'll be honest.
I don't know what it was.
It could have been last year three years ago.
Yeah, you've changed the podcast name since I last talked to you.
so then that would be at least two years.
Yes, was probably so it was probably left for last book launch which was in 2022.
(01:56):
So three years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just feels like yesterday.
I know, time flies for sure.
It has been on a personal level, it's been a really long three years.
I love my husband, but we have been through one of those marriage seasons where life hitsyou because we've got, I still have three children, thank the Lord, ages 15, 14 and 12.
(02:33):
and, know, so we're busy with kids.
I've written this next book and it's actually launching tomorrow.
So we're recording this on Monday, the 28th.
It's launching, April 29th.
And, I'm excited.
I'm really excited about it.
I mean, you know, I'm one of those people that when the hard stuff hits, I think about.
(02:58):
When Paul talks about in the Bible, you know, I thank God for trials of many kinds andeven, you know, through gritted teeth.
And just because we've been through some hard stuff doesn't mean that God isn't good andwe haven't seen him there.
If not, you know, if anything, I feel like sometimes it means that you see more evidenceof him in your life because you just start looking for it.
(03:19):
And that's something to be grateful for in and of itself.
And I'm still laughing.
I mean, that's...
That's good, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, so obviously, one of the reasons that you are coming back on the show is because asyou just said, when we're recording this, your new book, Organized First Decorate Second
(03:48):
comes out tomorrow, which congratulations on birthing another book, baby.
Huge, huge, huge deal.
Well, so obviously, like this, you know, from a titling.
perspective, you know, someone might just think like, this is a book about like, homeorganization and home decoration.
But there's obviously a lot more to this.
There's there's a lot of principles and foundational elements that are beneath the surfacefor this.
(04:16):
So I'm kind of curious, like, this book at this time coming out of this season, this isclearly a philosophy that goes a little bit deeper than just like
organization and decoration.
can you kind of talk about your thought process behind that and what like why this now?
Mm-hmm.
Well, so I have a degree in interior design and I have always loved home.
(04:41):
I think that, you know, I thought that...
Well, first of all, like I failed everything in school that didn't have anything to dowith drawing a picture.
I turned in my math homework, I kid you not, with little sketches of like gumball machinesand counting gumballs.
I mean, and this is not like in elementary school.
(05:01):
This is full on ninth, 10th, 11th grade.
Just hoping that the teacher would be like, well, at least she showed her work, know,showed her work, air quotes.
Gumball machine is not considered your work, Winnie.
Yes, it is.
So then I had to pick a major.
(05:23):
remember, I'm just going to tell you all the stories about how I got to a book about home.
So my parents took me to Oklahoma State University.
I remember being in the car on the way home.
I wanted to be an architect.
had been drawing floor plans on my homework since I was in second grade.
(05:44):
I just melted down.
was like, I cannot do the math on this architecture thing.
mean, full on like heaving tears, the whole, and so my parents were like, okay, we cansolve this.
Like they, have other degrees.
And so we figured out interior design and got me enrolled in that.
And I thought that I was going to meet a guy in college and then we were going to getmarried and have kids and that my job was going to be to decorate his house.
(06:13):
That's kind of.
what my mom had done.
I was the oldest daughter.
I just kind of thought that that's what you did.
Like I had just, was a good little Christian girl and you just followed all the steps andthose were the steps, you know?
And so four years later I'm graduating.
I'm graduating with a broken heart.
The guy that I thought was the one, it turned out to not be.
(06:36):
And so I graduated in 2001.
And so I moved to Dallas and
Then 9-11 happened, so I graduated in May.
9-11 happens in September, so the bottom falls out of the interior design market.
No one's hiring designers of any kind.
And I moved back to Oklahoma, moved back in with my parents, so I'm not married.
(06:58):
I don't have any way to practice this degree.
And I guess that would technically have been my first failure, although I think I wasprobably too naive to realize.
Maybe I was just giving myself
grace because it was like, Hey, Whitney, you're still getting started in life.
But one thing led to another.
I ended up working at a stationary company, a stationary shop, like a local stationarystore where I had worked out all the way through high school and college.
(07:23):
And my boss was like, you can draw pretty well.
You should design invitations.
So I started a wholesale stationary company.
20 years later, I have not done anything with home.
I've tried here and there.
You know, so my editors are like, what do you want to write a book about?
I'm like, I really want to write a book about home.
Well, they're strategic.
And so they come along and they're like, well, we're always looking for the next greatorganization book.
(07:45):
And so writing the book kind of became this, it really became a very expressive effort forhow do I talk about this thing that I'm passionate about, that I miss?
Like, I really have never been able to exercise.
my decorating skills.
I did air quotes on that for those who are listening.
(08:08):
I have not been able to, I feel like I haven't been able to do it in my own home.
I mean, a lot of people are gonna, you're looking at like curtains and stuff on wallsbehind, you you can say, well, wait, what do you mean by that?
But I really just wanted to talk about that and explore some of those ideas about like whyhome has meant so much to me and.
(08:29):
where I've struggled with it.
And I've told people like this book, and I say this in the opening pages of the book, likethis is a book about me wrestling with my love of stuff and the need to organize it.
You know?
So that's where it came from.
Well, I love that.
And you describe early on in the book, a love of stuff with stories.
(08:51):
so balancing sentimentality for a need for organized space.
And I'll be honest, like that is something I relate to so much.
You know, especially as somebody and I have a friend who's like a minimalist and she haslike this minimalism podcast.
And but we talk about this, we've talked about this some because
we both lost our moms at different ages, but you know, it's balancing this, like sometimeslike I have some stuff that was my mom's that I'm like, I don't really want to get rid of
(09:18):
this, but also like, I need this.
know, so there's, and that is a constant struggle for so many people.
and I just, as we, know, you know, and then it's when you become a, you know, you getmarried and you have.
kids and you know, grandparents die or you know, there's just there's all that we just weacquire stuff.
(09:40):
And for better for worse, much time, many times for worse, we acquire stuff and a lot ofthis stuff has stories and so but the reality is, is a lot of times it just contributes to
anxiety and clutter and stress and all of those things.
And so there's a like psychological piece to this that isn't just like, how do you
(10:03):
incorporate really nice things that have a, you know, impactful story in your home.
Like there's, there's a lot more beneath the surface.
So how do you kind of strike that balance of sentimentality with also this need for anorganized space and your love for interior decorating?
That's a great question.
And when you were talking, I actually thought of a story that I have not thought of inrelation to this before, but this is a really good example.
(10:28):
Yeah.
So when my grandparents passed away, my sister was married with kids.
I was married.
This is my dad's parents.
And they were people who also had a lot of stuff.
I jokingly say in the book, like, I come by this hoarder gene, like on both sides.
Like it really is going to...
(10:49):
It is ingrained in me as something I'm going to have to fight for the rest of my life.
And the way they, they divvied up the estate or whatever.
And I mean, we're not talking, I mean, my grandmother was a wonderful woman, she didn't, Ithink she had a collection of hummels.
You remember those little, the little hummels, the little figurine kind of things.
And I just have never been into that kind of stuff.
(11:12):
Like you have to dust those things or wash them or then they chip, especially if you'remarried to a bull.
in a china closet, which I am.
And God love him.
So, but my sister said we went through the house.
What they did was like the kids got to, they went through the house around and then thegrandkids got to go through the house around and you just, you were just allowed to go
(11:35):
after the kids had gone through, then the grandkids went through and then there wereactually great grandkids.
So then they went through and lots of grandkids.
And so,
And there wasn't really anything nice in the first place, but my sister said, I got aPyrex pan and a cast iron skillet.
And I was like, that is genius.
(11:55):
Because there's something about inheriting that function that really does represent whatI'm talking about in the book.
I don't need the collection of hummels that I'm going to have to dust or store in a chinacabinet or, you know,
But every time I pull out that cast iron skillet, that's probably nearing a hundred yearsold at this point, like now that I think about it.
(12:22):
You know, I think about my grandmother cooking fried okra in that, my dad, you know, it'snot the same cast iron skillet we had as, that I used growing up when my dad taught me how
to fry potatoes and stuff like that.
But, and then there was a Pyrex pan I picked up too, and it had my grandmother's name.
She had taken a
(12:43):
a knife or something and in the pyrex she had scrawled her name.
So it says Louise English.
And I still have that.
think it's definitely made it to some like potlucks at church and friends houses andcasseroles.
And I will say like, I do need that pyrex back because it does.
(13:04):
But it also has my grandmother's name scrawled in it.
It says Louise English.
If the friend is like washing it, she's going to be like, this is Whitney's pant.
Yeah, exactly.
So, yeah, so I mean, yeah, the idea of it, like, if you're listening and you have to likeinherit something, like ask for a functional thing you can inherit.
Yeah, absolutely.
(13:25):
Yeah, I think those, yeah, like our plates that we eat on, like our dinner plates, I ateon those when I was a kid and my parents ate on them when they were kids.
So like they are passed down, yeah, for a very long time.
So they're the, they're the blue and white, they're very iconic blue and white, Currierand Ives dishes.
(13:50):
Yeah.
But we have,
all of them, the plates, the bowls, the tiny plates, all of it.
Yeah, so we have all of them and those are our everyday plates.
And I mean, that's what I remember eating on as a kid.
And then I remember I got older and my dad was like, I'm not going to use these anymore.
Do you want them?
I was like, heck yeah, I do.
I love them so much.
(14:11):
And then, you know, it's fun because now if I'm in a thrift store, an antique store, and Icome across, you know, a piece I'm missing, I'm like, look, it's, you know, it's something
to go along with my mom.
I have a question.
I have another question.
Do they chip?
yeah, I definitely have ones that have chipped,
okay.
So we have Blue Willow as our everyday.
(14:34):
And I grew up eating on them.
It's called Churchill Blue Willow.
I've always wondered about the Courier & Ives chipping because the Churchill brand of BlueWillow plates barely chips, barely.
But Courier & Ives is, I see that stuff at thrift stores, at estate sales all the time.
Just one piece here or there.
I mean, if I had bought every single piece of Courier and Ives that I've ever seen, onepiece, I don't know who collected this stuff and how it ended up getting so dispersed
(15:04):
across America, but if somebody's listening and they want to start collecting something,blue Courier and Ives is a really good thing to start collecting, because there are random
pieces of it out there everywhere.
Yeah, and there and there was like whole Facebook groups.
But then it's like, it's weird, because then there are some pieces that are super rarethat I have that are worth like a ton of money.
(15:26):
But I don't want to get rid of them.
Like I really, I have a couple rare pieces that just, you know, are not as easy to find aslike plates and bowls and things like that.
Again, they were my mom's and so I'm like, I know, I want to get rid these.
I use them.
But yes, they do chip but I'm like, character personality.
Yeah, patina.
(15:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, so, you know, the reality is, is like our, like you were saying, you know, ourfamilies are where we come from, how we grew up, all of these things shape us and our
homes shape us, our environments shape us.
And you talk a lot in your book about how your home shapes you, it shapes your family.
(16:12):
And so I'm curious for you, like I loved hearing your story of how
you know, it took a long time for you to kind of really lean into the interior designelement of, you know, what you went to college for.
But I'm curious, like, how has your own home environment evolved over the years and howhas it shaped you, your marriage, your kids, and, you know, what growth have you seen in
(16:36):
that?
What growth have I seen in how my home has shaped us?
I think, so we spent, and I do talk about this in the book a little bit, we spent aboutfour years doing a lot of house hopping, unintentional.
We sold a home that we had lived in, that I had owned for nine years.
(17:03):
Kind of to chase a dream, we wanted to move, I talk about this in the book, but we wantedto move to this new urbanist town in the middle of nowhere, Oklahoma.
It just seemed so beautiful and charming.
we're so glad we did that, but we did learn a lot.
So we moved, we bought a lot, we gonna build.
And then that ended up being cost prohibitive.
(17:26):
I think one of the things you can say I've learned is that,
If you have a big dream, if that dream is gonna cost over $100,000, it is okay to make aslow decision about it.
Like you don't have to rush off and be like, oh, we have to this right now, you know?
So slower big decisions, faster little decisions.
(17:50):
That's something, that is something I've learned in this house, house journey.
And we've sort of landed almost because we just had to.
We just had to quit moving.
Like where our kids are in ages, we just had to stop moving.
(18:10):
And so...
were sort of making do.
I was actually thinking about this the other day.
The house before this one, we had built and it was built for me to decorate.
It was a blank slate, basically.
Like I had picked from the foundation up, like we had picked all, and it was small andcompact and I was gonna, and then the pandemic hit.
(18:37):
And so a lot of the decorating money actually got spent.
on that house, if that makes any sense, because then we kind of had to pivot just becausewe didn't have enough space.
mean, it was five and we were, we didn't have adult sized children when we moved into thathouse.
And then all of a sudden, 18 months later, we did have adult sized children and apandemic.
(19:00):
And we're trying to figure out how everybody is supposed to have conversations in a zerolot line, 2,600 square foot house.
It probably would have been
okay if it wasn't zero lot line.
We could have like put a shed in the yard, like a writing shed or a zoom shed wheresomebody could have gone to in the middle of all that chaos.
(19:24):
But it was a very open concept small house that we just had no space.
So anyway, the pendulum kind of swung and we ended up on two acres in a very still small,but spread out house.
At least it was spread out.
And so now in some ways it feels like we're making do.
(19:46):
Like I really do wish I could have the bamboo blinds that I spent a real nice chunk ofchange on in that last house.
And so anyway, it does feel like a journey.
And I guess sometimes that's hard.
Sometimes maybe I am a little bit sad about that and then I take my meds and we're allgood.
(20:10):
Well, I feel like that's a good, because it was just something I wanted to ask you aboutanyway.
And because you talk in your book pretty openly about having ADHD.
And you talk about it as a factor in your struggle with organization.
And I feel like there's more attention and things being talked about with this as areality.
(20:30):
There's so many times we think we talk about kids with ADHD.
And we don't talk about the fact that there are
a lot of adults that have to function in everyday society that have ADHD and that canreally contribute to feeling disorganized, feeling kind of chaotic.
So I'm curious, you being so open about this, how has your ADHD kind of factored into yourstruggle or maybe success with organization?
(20:57):
How have you kind of like adapted your different methods to work with your brain ratherthan against it?
And what would you say to somebody who either
is also diagnosed with ADHD or is like, you know, maybe an adult is undiagnosed and islike, I probably have ADHD.
We heard something like that, kind of on a spectrum.
How have you used that as more as fuel rather than an hindrance?
(21:21):
So it's so interesting that you asked that because I don't think I was prepared.
When I was writing the book, I mentioned in one of the first drafts, like, hello ADHD.
And my editors were like, no, you can't just say that.
you're not allowed to, they didn't, and I was like, no, I'm diagnosed.
I am allowed.
You know, like they were trying to edit that out.
(21:43):
And I was like, no, no, no, no.
Like that's an actual diagnosis.
And they were like, okay.
So let's leave it in.
But I wasn't, I don't know that I'm,
totally prepared to talk about it.
I'm really surprised at the number of questions that have come up about that becausethat's the way my brain is.
(22:03):
That's just who I am and always has been and always will be.
So the idea that I've had to hack my way around that to get to some semblance of normalisn't, it's not something I, even the
It was almost just like, just felt like people needed to know that that was a challengethat I do face.
(22:26):
And I don't know that in this book, I came up with an answer for that challenge.
I was listening to a podcast last night where they were talking about it was some womanwho has ADHD, but she's also a scientist.
And so she's done all this research on this.
And I was listening.
to her describe it and just kind of realizing like I have not listened to a bunch ofpodcasts on it.
(22:50):
I really have not tried, I have been, have realized it's almost like it's been a hall passfor me as like, you know, so if a friend drops by and there's clutter everywhere or I'm,
you know, a project that I didn't put away yesterday or last week or a month before, youknow, I just go.
(23:13):
ADHD, know, and laugh it off and keep going.
But now I'm kind of starting.
So many people have asked me about this in interviews about the book that I.
Yeah, that I'm like, OK, I need to I need to actually think about this.
And it was really interesting listening to this podcast last night, the way this womantalked about.
(23:36):
And it made me think about childhood, about maybe that there.
were frustrations that were in organized first decorate second, I talk about some of thetensions between my mom and I.
And last night listening to this was the first time I thought maybe some of those tensionswere there because my brain just thinks in circles and a lot of people think in straight
(23:59):
lines, you know?
And so if anything, I think it's given me empathy for...
other people.
And if that makes me a better writer, and if I can continue to write and continue toexplore and chase these ideas, then maybe I'll have a better answer for you on that
question in the future.
mean, I appreciate your honesty.
(24:20):
And it's one of those things that like I'm actually maybe I'm surprised that that'ssomething you've been asked a lot about because it's not something I've ever even like, I
don't even think I've even had a conversation with anybody on the show about it.
But I just thought it was so interesting as I was kind of, you know, reading through yourbook and, just as I was thinking about it.
And then when you mentioned the meds thing, I was just like, well, you know what, maybeI'm gonna follow this thread and ask about it, because I think it is something that isn't
(24:43):
necessarily talked about a lot and
and can be a real struggle for people, especially when they're trying to manage theirspace around them.
you know, so many contributing factors.
I have a friend who's, who is an adult who was diagnosed with ADHD, you know, and so it'ssomething that she's been really intentional about in like, because she works from home.
(25:06):
And so she's like, I get distracted really easily.
And I really intentional about how I set up my home office and all this.
So just got me thinking about that.
so I'm really interested.
That's just, I just find it, I find it very interesting.
And like I said, I'm always somebody who just kind of like, follow, I follow threads.
well, okay.
So with that being said, you know, again, the whole concept of this is this organizedfirst and decorate second.
(25:33):
And so, what do you feel like is, because I think for a lot of people, there might be amisconception that organization or really focusing on organization is.
restrictive, or almost, yeah, like less fun, rather than actually freeing and can cancontribute to more freedom and how your home is set up or whatever.
(26:02):
So how do you feel?
How do you kind of fight against those misconceptions and helping people to see no, thisis this philosophy is actually really important.
Okay, also a funny question.
And I was thinking about this yesterday too.
I think that that, this is one reason why I'm really excited about this book is becauseyou write this book and you're having all these thoughts in your head and then you put it
(26:26):
out there and it's the day you put it out there that you kind of start to realize like, isanybody else actually interested in this at all?
Is there a collective, is there a cultural conversation to have around these things?
If I put myself out there and just say like, these are the things that I've struggledwith.
And I'm so encouraged because even in doing podcast interviews and stuff like that, I'mlike, yeah, there are other conversations that we can have around some of the things that
(26:53):
I explore.
So I'm really, it's a different kind of excitement than I was excited about my first book.
because I'm really passionate about home.
So, but to answer your question, I think that, so my son and I were cleaning out a closetyesterday and filming a video about it for,
(27:14):
for a book launch thing.
And I realized that one of the things that drives me crazy about, it's like when you gointo somebody's house and if it's, this is not judgment by the way.
And I didn't talk about this in the book, but if you're listening to this and this is you,I just need you to know that I'm not judging you at all.
(27:37):
But if you go to somebody's house and it's perfectly decorated.
Like I babysat for some amazing families growing up and they hired professionaldecorators.
had these gorgeous homes.
And then you would like go into the laundry room to find the coloring books and thecrayons and you would open the cabinets and it was just like, know?
(27:57):
And I guess for a long time I thought, okay, who cares?
You know, who cares about what's happening?
And really at the root of this is a...
desire for perfection that I hope I in the book, if you've gotten to the last chapter, Ihope I, I hope I come, I hope that this is all wrapped up in the book.
(28:18):
But, but the idea of being like, okay, yeah, you're the house is beautiful, likeabsolutely drop dead gorgeous, but we can't even enjoy coloring books and crayons and
markers and, and then for I think the average American family, it's sort of
(28:38):
practical to be like, let's just go buy more.
Let's just go to Five Below.
We'll just go buy more crayons and coloring books.
When you have said, now I have plenty of disastrous cabinets.
have, mean, the closet we cleaned out yesterday, I have one more.
actually we were gonna mention that in the book.
(28:59):
The editors were like, we don't think everybody knows what the Monica Geller closet is.
I'm like, what?
Everyone knows.
Everyone over the age of 35 knows.
That's who matters.
Right?
No, that's it.
That's it.
It's the Monica Geller closet, you know, and but there's also something really satisfyingand very beautiful about pulling all the stuff out of that closet and putting it back.
(29:24):
And even yesterday, my daughter had to go to a birthday party.
My son and I had cleaned out the closet.
It was the gift wrap closet.
We had put the gift wrap back.
My daughter needed to go pick out gift wrap to wrap for the birthday gift.
She walked into the closet, didn't have to step over anything.
It's a walk in, we call it the linen closet.
(29:45):
Didn't have to trip over anything.
Walked straight up to the gift wrap.
Was able to pull the gift wrap out of the box and be like, this is the one I want to use.
And it was just a very nice, satisfying, you know?
Like, look at us.
That's, yes, like function is beautiful.
You know, and then I think on the decorating side of things, I have taken it to the nthdegree where I'm like, even super functional things can, you can make an aesthetic choice
(30:15):
about them.
You know, so why are we going to buy plastic handled scissors when we can buy brasshandled metal scissors?
We have both in this house, you know, but I do love beautiful functional things and notjust plastic stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
completely agree.
Completely agree.
Well, I wanted to, so I want to end the show with some rapid fire this or that questions.
(30:40):
I thought that would be fun.
Switch it up.
But before we get into that, I thought it would be just good and helpful to do some kindof practical actionable.
So kind of leaving people with, you we've kind of talked about the philosophy behind this.
We've kind of gotten the foundation out in the foundational aspect, but
I feel like with something like this, leaving people with something a little bitpractical, a little more actionable might be helpful.
(31:06):
So for somebody who may be like, this is a brand new concept and feels very overwhelmed,especially talking to like a busy mom or a busy dad.
What is like a quick, let's say like five to 10 minute habit that someone can implement intheir home that
(31:27):
would help them feel instantly more organized.
I like to hinge things like that on my morning routine.
So most of us get up, we run to the little girl's room, then we go brush our teeth or washour face, whatever.
(31:51):
So right there in that moment is when I would plug something in and it might depend onwhat your needs are.
It might be this idea of like, I'm gonna look around me and pick up something that needsto be put away.
It might be...
(32:11):
that you're going to put in.
probably just plug in, this is what I would do, I would just plug in a little five minutewindow right there where you're gonna go tidy something.
Like that's what you have to do.
And so yes, it may start in your bathroom, but then eventually if all that gets relativelytidy, you're gonna have that little window that can then go to other spaces beyond that.
(32:39):
And if it's a bad day, like if you're me, you might spend that five minutes just puttingclothes back on a hanger, I don't know.
But I would plug it in right there for sure.
And just do a 10 minute tidy.
Set a timer.
Just make yourself put on some, ooh, you know what else has really helped?
(33:00):
This is not an idea I came up with.
Someone else came up.
Put on shoes that tie.
interesting.
Like not flip-flops, like actual like tennis, like sports shoes, whatever.
They have to tie, put them on to do your work around your house.
It does help.
(33:20):
So I'm curious, like, if you have like inside shoes.
Your house shoes.
Your house shoes.
Yeah, but they can't be like house shoe house shoes.
They have to have like laces.
That is so interesting.
love, I wonder what's behind that.
That's so interesting.
(33:40):
Okay, well, so you talk a lot in your book about routines and rituals.
So what is a daily routine for you that is just been like life, life changing, lifesaving?
that morning, like the idea of like, okay, I get up and I, if there's anything consistent,I mean, that's whenever I had to really think about how routines could benefit me, I had
(34:03):
to think, I had to start in the morning with, because my routine falls apart throughoutthe day.
just, it's very creative.
I love the variety.
I love chasing the rabbits, literally and figuratively.
And so I hinge everything on that morning routine.
that's so good.
That's so good.
Starting the morning strong.
(34:24):
Okay, so we've talked some about these sentimental items and stuff with stories.
So what is your advice for someone who finds it hard to part with things like that aren'tnecessarily decorative?
So things like old letters or like memorabilia trophies, like things from childhood,things like that.
(34:48):
Well, trophies can be really cute decorating items, especially if they're grouped togetherin a collection.
that's what I say with trinkets, like small things is like, go find like a little glasscase that hangs on the wall and just if it's under three inches tall and looks like a
Hummel or a Precious Moment or something like that, like just put it all in one place, youknow, because then it's not just trinkets.
(35:13):
It's like, that's the memory cabinet.
Check the box.
move on, know, all that stuff can go in there.
If it's letters, I will be, I will, I struggle with that.
I have like two bins of photos that I just, there's really nothing to do with them.
But I mean, now there's so much on our phones, which is nice.
(35:35):
Like we have not continued to accumulate photos.
Another thing that I would say about sentimental stuff is how can you use it to decorate?
If you have letters from,
from a relative or something like that.
Maybe you wrap them up in a really pretty French silk ribbon and it looks like, you framethem in a shadow box and hang them in your bathroom or, you know, how can you turn those
(36:02):
things into something decorative?
Because if you can't really, I can't help you on the boxes of photos, because I have thattoo.
I just can tell you that, but we do,
I do believe in putting family photos on the walls.
I actually think that's really important for kids and confidence levels and things likethat, and for stories in the house.
(36:25):
So print those pictures and pull them out.
Yeah, so try to decorate with it, I guess, is the answer to that one.
I love that.
Okay.
And then my last of these questions is what is maybe the most underrated or like mostneglected space in a home that people tend to organize last or maybe they don't even at
(36:48):
all, but it actually can make a really huge impact.
Impact last.
I feel like we all sort of have like a junk room.
Like there's a, everybody has a drop zone.
Everybody has a place where now you might have a giant drop zone that's called a junk roomor you might have, but I mean, we all have corners where we put things and that's what my
(37:18):
son and I were doing yesterday.
It was just this closet that just, it accumulates stuff and.
And I really think that anytime you can get into those spaces and just add a semblance oforganization, you're going to elevate everything.
Don't ask me to help you do it, but like that's why they have people at the containerstore that will like measure these things and tell you they will.
(37:45):
They will actually, the containers will actually tell you what to do exactly what to do ifyou take a picture of your crappy garage and take it to them.
And it will be expensive.
but it will be done and it will feel really good.
And then you will have to do it again because that is life.
And I am sorry, but I am there with you and send me a picture when you get it done.
Cause I need that satisfying.
We need that.
We got to share the wins because I feel like that's what keeps us all going, you know?
(38:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Okay, so as we wrap up, we're gonna do a just rapid fire this or that question.
So it's just whatever first comes to mind.
All right, you ready?
No, those are practical actionable steps.
All right, this is the rapid fire though, I promise.
so baskets or bins?
(38:33):
Labels or no labels?
Open shelves or closed cabinets?
Open shelves.
That's a hard one.
Yeah.
is hard one.
That one's a that one that has people on both sides with very strong feelings.
(38:54):
Donate or sell?
So.
monochromatic or color.
monochromatic.
Organize the pantry or closet first.
Pantry.
Do you like minimalist or cozy?
(39:16):
Cozy.
Do you do a command center or do you do like a big calendar?
Neither.
neither.
DIY or hire it out.
DIY.
under the bed storage or attic storage.
(39:40):
under the bed.
Are you all about fresh flowers or house plants?
houseplants.
Ooh, okay.
The junk drawer.
We all have one.
Do you organize it or do you ignore it?
(40:00):
Until it just gets so bad that eventually you just have to like clean it out.
Okay, coffee table books or do you like a clean surface?
Happy Table Books.
Do you like matching sets or are you more of a mix and match type of person?
Mix and match.
(40:22):
quick tidy every day or big clean every week.
Quick tidy.
Do you start organizing in the kitchen or start organizing in your bedroom?
on the book, I had to make a call on this in the book and I actually can't remember what Isaid, but today I'm going to say kitchen.
(40:43):
All right, two more, two more.
One giant purge, like get rid of a lot, or kind of a slow and steady purge.
Okay, and then last one is, you a sentimental saver or a ruthless editor?
I'm a ruthless editor.
all right.
All right.
That was that was my rapid fire questions.
You did great.
(41:03):
You did great.
Very proud of you.
Thanks.
Thanks.
I had fun putting those together.
I was like trying to think through I was like, what would be fun?
Well, Whitney, this has been so much fun.
It's always fun having you on the show.
So everyone go get this book now.
Organize first, decorate second.
Whitney, where can people follow you and connect with you and get the book and all ofthose sorts of things?
(41:25):
So my website is WhitneyEnglish.
can find and click all the links from there.
I am on Instagram, but I've also been really enjoying Substack lately.
So I'm interested to see how the conversation angle of things might continue over there.
That will be fun.
Awesome, awesome.
Whitney, this was so much fun.
Thank you so much for being here.
(41:46):
Thank you.
Thank you, Molly.
I've loved it.
Thank you.
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