Back to the Stacks

Season 2 is officially in session!

Settle into back-to-school season with Janette and Leah as they unpack all the library propaganda we're not falling for. No homework—just laughs, mythbusting, and a few hot takes. 

Relevant Links:

AISLE Conference 10/5-10/7

Extra Credit! 8/20

Illinois School Library Workers Symposium 9/17

Public Act 103-0100

American Library Association Book Ban Data

ILA Annual Conference 10/14-10/16

Have a topic idea? Want to be a guest? Let us know! Email Ola at [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail on our hotline at 630.734.5015.

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to the first episode ofseason two of Can't Shelve This,
the podcast where we hammer homethe importance of school libraries.
I'm Leah Gregory,
and I'm joined by my co-host,Janette Derucki.
Hi, everybody.
And our producer, Ola Gronski.
Hi, everyone.
Can you believe it is timeto come back to school,
you guys?

(00:31):
No, the summer went too fast.
It did go pretty fast.
Flew by.
It flies by fasterand faster every single year.
Is that what life is?
-That is what life is.-Just wait until you get to be our age, Ola.
It is unreal how fast it goes by.
I remember when I was a kid,getting to 4th of July took forever.

(00:52):
It did seem so long.
Then you felt like you still havea ton of summer left after 4th of July.
I suppose that's life without a job.
You don't have anything you have to do.
Every day is a weekendwhen you're a kid in the summer.
Oh, so nice.
I don't know that I ever felt like 4th of July

(01:13):
to the beginning of school was very long.
It always felt like once 4th of July hit,I felt like summer was over,
even as a kid.
We would start to back to school shop.
We would start to lookfor school supply lists and,
all of that stuff.
I guess we started schoolabout the same time,
mid to late August.
Mid-August, yes.
Did you guys like back-to-school seasonor did you dread it when you were kids?

(01:36):
I loved back-to-school season.
Loved back to school, and I still do.
I love supply shopping.
-Yes.-Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Finding your binders,your folders, all the pencil pouches.
Your lunchbox, yes.
I loved back to school.
I can remember, honestly,still vivid memory buying
my first ever Trapper Keeper.
Did you ever have a Trapper Keeper, Leah?

(01:57):
-Oh, yes.-Oh, yeah.
Ola, yeah. They came back, andnow I think they're still out, right?
I think they're still a thing, yeah.
I think they're called planners now.
When you're an adult,they don't call them Trapper Keepers.
I went through a brief phase ofwhen I was actually teaching and was
on a school teacher's schedule of,I did not want to see
the back-to-school ads on the 4th of July.

(02:20):
I wanted it to come at the end of July.
Even as a teacher,
I was still energized by back-to-schooland liked to go back to school.
I feel like now they start even earlier.
They start in June, almost.
You start to see the Target commercials,and all of that stuff,
advertising, like,"Get ready for back to school."
I'm like, they just got out of school,and you already want to send them back.

(02:42):
Then by the time the parents have timeto take the kids back-to-school shopping,
everything's sold out,and you're just getting the dregs.
That's everything, though.
By the time you thinkyou want a bathing suit,
it's too late.
You've got to buy sweatersor Christmas stuff.
-Yes, that is so true.-It irritates me.
Halloween stuff was outas soon as 4th of July was over.

(03:03):
Yes.
But I'm not complaining about that.
I'm only complaining about itbecause it makes me
want cooler fall weather
and you still have towait quite a bit for that.
No, but I love everythingabout back to school.
The thing I remember themost about going back to school
and that time of year is not even reallythe back-to-school shopping.
It's the smells of whenyou would walk into school,

(03:25):
and it was all the polished woodand the polished floors,
and just how all of that is such a sense--
-Like a freshly waxed gym floor.-Yeah.
It's like a sense memory for me, I guess,
so yeah.-Totally.
I was hit with the biggest senseof nostalgia the other day.
Janette will probably remember this one.
Do you remember the tin lunchboxes,

(03:48):
-the square metal ones-Oh, yeah.
-with the matching thermos?-I had Strawberry Shortcake
and Care Bears, yes.
I had this really cute one,and it was pink gingham,
and it had strawberries on it.
-Aw.-Cute.
-I saw it, like---Wait, was it Holly Hobbie?
No, it wasn't Holly Hobbie,but I loved Holly Hobbie.
This one I sawon eBay or something,
and you know, when just a smellor a sight or something,

(04:11):
you're just like, "Whoa."
I was just taken back.
I think it's so funnyhow all those nostalgic gifts
and those items are all coming back,and it's because they know we're going
to buy it, and nowour generation is--
We're older, right?
We are not maybe asfinancially strapped as we were
when we were younger.
You have disposable income.
They're like, "Let's get them rightin the feelings."

(04:33):
I get nostalgic forpizza dipper day at school.
Everyone hated those---School pizza day.
They were like, "This tastesraw," and I would be like,
"I'll eat it.
Hand it over.
Give me your extraunclaimed pizza dippers."
You had pizza dippers.
We just had school pizza,the rectangular pizza.
The rectangle pizza.
The rectanglewith the weird cubed pepperoni?

(04:57):
-Yes.-Yes.
Ours was mostly just always cheese.
I think ours was only cheese, too.
I don't know if we ever had toppings.
I have a vivid memory of miniaturecubed pepperoni, question mark.
Who knows what it really was?
Okay, so what was your pizza side?
What did they serve with your pizza?
I think it was a salad.
I'm not really sure--Ours was always salad, too.

(05:18):
And the carton of milk.
Yes, chocolate milk, always.
Or something weirdlike pears or green beans
that just absolutely does notgo with pizza.
The ones in the little plastic containerwith the juice in them.
-Yes.-Yes.
Yeah.
I think ours was almost always salad,and I think it's because they knew kids
would buy pizza
and they would notnormally get salad, right?

(05:39):
It was just like, "Howcan we get rid of this lettuce?
Here you go." And it’s coveredin some kind of mystery dressing,
and I was like, is it Italian dressing?
Maybe. Was it Thousand Island?
Maybe.-Ranch? Maybe.
Yeah, you just didn't know.
Honestly, it was thedregs of whatever's left over
from three separatebarrels put into one.
[laughs]
[chuckles]I was a bring-your-lunch kind of kid.

(06:00):
The only day I ever boughtmy lunch was pizza day.
I brought my lunch every--
My poor mother having to makelunch for me every single day,
I didn't bring my own lunchuntil high school,
and then at that point,
shout out to my high school,
we were known for the cookiesthat they would sell
because they were practicallyunderbaked, and they were so,

(06:24):
so good to the point that--
My older sister and brother,we have a big age gap.
My sister's 10 years older,my brother's 6 years older than me.
When I would be in high school,they'd be like,
"Hey, can you snag us some cookies?"
because everybody in my townknows about those cookies.
What I want to know is werethey Otis Spunkmeyer cookies?
I don't know.

(06:44):
Allegedly,
people in the school made them.
Some of the students helped,
I think, and maybe someof the special education classes
or the culinary classes--I can't do that anymore. Yeah.
--allegedly.
I remember, and I want to say I was in college,
there were Otis Spunkmeyer cookies,and I want to say they were
in our dining hall.

(07:05):
There was a special little oven,and I think the dough comes pre-made,
and so they were literallyjust putting them in the little oven-
-So maybe.
and baking them,but they were always hot,
and we were like,these are the best cookies ever.
[chuckles]-They were undercooked.
They were practically raw in the middle.
Oh, my gosh.--I feel like, yeah,
I'm still like, you couldprobably lure me
to a van with hot cookies,

(07:27):
I'd be like, I’m here.-Yes.
Have you guys ever been to Hershey,
the city?
Yes,yes.
Yes.
It's a chocolate lover's dream, basically,but my favorite thing about it is
that their streetlightsare shaped like Hershey's Kisses.
Oh, that's so darling.
It's so cute, yeah.
Are we ready to talk about--
Are we really ready to tackleseason two, do you think?

(07:47):
This is amazing. I'm so gladto be back with both of you,
and just bring it on.
That's what I have to say.
Yeah, I'm excited about this year.
I want to take a moment and reflect backon the success of season one,
which I think you two owe yourselvesa big old pat on the back for.
Yeah, looking back on season one,
we had nine episodesand over 5,700 downloads.

(08:13):
That is unbelievable to me.
I feel like that's amazingfor a monthly podcast
because a lot of podcastscome out more often,
and so I think it's easier for themto keep their listeners engaged.
A lot of that is thanksto the work that you're doing,
Ola, to keep pushing it out thereand reconnecting.
You mean pestering people?[laughs]
No, our marketinggenius at work.

(08:33):
[laughs] No, but you have donea very great job of selecting little bits
and pieces that go outthat intrigue people.
The funny thing is I findmyself, when those come out,
I'm like, "Did we really say that?
That was really smart."
Then I go listen, and I'm like,
"We actually do knowwhat we're talking about."
What people don't know isI probably pick about five clips
from every episode,
so maybe I need to go backand release our B clips

(08:57):
to see what didn't make the cut.
Do you guys remember when we startedout and we were talking a little bit
about this, and my mom was like,"Who would listen to that?"
She wasn't trying to be mean.-I do remember that.
She was trying to manage
your expectations, Leah.
She was. Do you remember Katewanting to start the hashtag,

(09:17):
#ProveLeahsMomWrong?
Yes, I do remember that.
I would say we did,
especially becausewhen we started this podcast,
because our library systemsare both in Illinois,
that was our primary audience, right?
But I would say that we'vesuccessfully broken out of that.
Our listeners, while most of themare from Illinois,

(09:41):
we are followed by Californiaand Iowa as our-
Oh, wow.
top three statesthat people listen from,
which is pretty crazy.-That's amazing.
I think that just showshow the school library space
is so connected, right?
A lot of what you talk about,regardless of location,
applies across the board.
Even maybe internationally?

(10:03):
We have international listeners,
which is insane.-This is what blows my mind.
That is so wild to me, I mean,
really wild.
I'll just list our top four regular listeners
outside of the US.
They come from Australia,Canada, the Philippines,
and Kenya,
a really broad rangeof countries, I would say,

(10:25):
like literally from all over the world.
And not the ones I expected,not the ones that are somewhat similar
to how we do school.
You know what I'm saying?-Absolutely.
No, but I will say a huge helloand thank you to all those listeners.
-Yes.-That's amazing that they're here.
We're so happy to betogether with them in this space.
Yeah-Yes.

(10:45):
So happy to have everyone here.
Well, we should definitelymaybe have an international guest.
That's what I was going to say.-Absolutely.
We need to workon an international guest.
That would be so much fun.
International listeners,if you're listening,
reach out to us.
If you want to talk about what schoolsare like where you're listening from.
Maybe not only internationally,but all over the US,

(11:07):
we're always lookingfor new guest opportunities.
I would love to hear froman international school librarian,
like someone who's a schoollibrarian in a country that is not
the United States.
If you're an internationalschool librarian
and you would be interestedin being on the podcast,
please reach out to us.
Since I know it's probably harderto call our hotline,

(11:29):
maybe you can email us.
Yes, they can send an email to me,the podcast producer,
[e-mail].
I can also put that in thepodcast episode description.
I'd love to hear from you.
I feel like it would be so interestingto talk to someone in another country
or locale really, just because of the waythat the funding is different,

(11:53):
the needs are different.
I think the niche of librarianshipis constant across the board.
Even the American Library Association,they consider themselves to be
an international organization,but at the same time,
it's not exactly the same.
-It’s not exactly the same.-Think about how different it is
state to state within the U.S.
It's got to be very differentbetween countries.

(12:15):
I would love to getthat international perspective.
We've had some amazing guests onCan't Shelve This in our first season.
I just can't thank all of thosepeople enough for showing up
and providing their library expertise.
That's one of my, one of the thingsthat surprised me the most
about season one is just howwilling everyone was to participate

(12:35):
and join us on this podcast.
I'm sorry, I still fangirl and havethose moments where I'm like,
did we really talk to Mychal Threets?
-We did.-We really did.
To see all the things he's doingright now is just amazing.
I'm so grateful to everyonewho joined us for season one.
We have a lot of amazing peoplelined up for season two.
I'm looking forward to that.

(12:56):
I'm very excited.
One of our most fun episodesthat's coming up very,
very soon is going to beat the AISLE Conference.
We will be doing a live show.
It's happening.
If you're going to be in Champaignfor the AISLE Conference,
please plan to join usbecause it will be so sad if there's

(13:16):
five people.
Or nobody.[laughs]
Also, there's a lotof amazing sessions at AISLE.
I understand we're upagainst some competition.
It is very hard to decide which onethat you want to be at, at AISLE
because there's so many to choose from.
But we hope that you will come byand maybe be featured on that episode.
Yeah, it's going to be so fun to talkto people and hear what they have to say

(13:37):
and share about their libraries.
On the topic of back to school,
there are a couple eventsthat are coming up
that we want to be sure to highlight.
The first one is Extra Credit,
which is a networking and continuingeducation program that we do
at Illinois Heartland Library System.
We're changing our formata little bit this year.
It was like after schooland pretty much freeform,

(14:00):
but now we're focusing moreon continuing education.
The very first sessionwill be on August 20th.
Janette and Ola are joining me there,and we're going to talk about, kind of like
behind the scenes of Can't Shelve This.
What were we thinkingwhen we decided to do this?
[laughter]
What were we thinking?
That's what I'd like to ask myself.

(14:21):
I'd like to go back in timeand ask past me that same question.
I'm excited for that.
I'm really excited aboutthe reformat of your group
and to see if you can engagewith a lot more school librarians
that way.
That's going to be exciting.
Is this opportunity only opento Heartland members
or anyone in the state?
In the past, it has been only opento Heartland members,
but I did specifically openit up this year for anyone

(14:44):
because one of the bestthings about this podcast
is connecting with librariansall over the state.
So, I did open it up.
If you're a school librarian,come to Extra Credit.
The big draw is we offer PDH for itbecause I know it's very hard to get PDH.
I thought you were goingto say we are the big draw.
The other event coming upis on September 17th,

(15:05):
but registration is open now
for the Illinois School LibraryWorkers Symposium.
This is the third annualoccurrence of this event.
This is such a great event, too.
I love it.
When we started planning it,it was Dan Bostrom at RAILS
and me, and a few other people fromAISLE, and the Illinois State Library,
and Janette. We were like,"Well, if we get 50 people

(15:26):
to come to the symposium,we'll consider that a success."
We've registered at least300 people every year.
The thing that I love aboutthe symposium is that it is
a professional development event.
It's a full-day event,six and a half hours
of professional development
that is designed for non-licensedor unlicensed library workers.
If you are someone who doesn't haveyour MLIS or your, what's it called?

(15:51):
[chuckles]-Endorsement.
Or your LIS endorsement in Illinois,then you are more than welcome to come.
We don't really close it to anyone.
We do prioritize people whodon't have previous formal training.
It's just a really great wayfor them to get exposed
to some of the routine knowledgeand understanding of what happens
in a library, what the library work is like,

(16:12):
and to connect with other people.
And to get some of that trainingthat you don't get if you haven't been
to any library training.-Right.
So many people that comeout of the symposium
express to us that they're very grateful.
They did not know aboutstudent confidentiality rights,
and they did not know about weeding.
Nobody had ever talkedto them about weeding.
Those are the kind of topics that we cover.

(16:34):
Yeah. Classroom management is a big one.
I know a lot of people who are workingin positions as library aides
or paraprofessionals,
they don't have a lot of trainingwith regards to classroom management,
so they are always grateful to have that.
It's just a great placeto ask other people questions.
Like I said, it's not like youcan't attend if you are licensed.
We do get a good mix of people.

(16:56):
It's like you have a lot of peersyou could ask questions to as well,
and a lot of repeat attendeesbecause we do try to change
the program every year.
That's really great.
We can put the registrationin the episode notes
so that you can click on itand just go register
because we'd love to see you there.
The other thing that's greatabout this symposium is
that we understand that it's really hard to devotean entire day when you also have a day job.

(17:19):
So it is recorded,
and you can go back and accessthe individual sessions later.
Can we talk a little bit aboutlike the table talk opportunities?
I feel like that is a really greatpart of the symposium
where you have,
it's almost like a builtin little networking session
around certain topics.
So we started table talk last yearbecause so many school librarians

(17:41):
are like lone wolves in their building.
They don't have anybody else to talk to.
Even if they have a librarianin another building,
they don't necessarilytalk to them every day.
We decided to come up with a wayfor librarians and library staff
to be able to chat.
It's hard, I think,
to start just talking to somebody,especially virtually.

(18:03):
The platform that we use really does helpwith that because it mimics being
at a conference and sitting at a table.
It's really, really fun.
We assign the tables a topic.
If you want to come talkabout Follett Destiny,
you can sit at that table.
If you want to come talk about book fairs,you can sit at that table.
I love that part of it mostlyjust because, you know
when you're attending othertypes of professional development,

(18:25):
a lot of it's webinar style,so you don't really have the opportunity.
Maybe you are there trying to meet otherpeople so you can set up a time to talk later
or connect with peoplewho are in similar situations, even.
This allows you theopportunity to do that,
whereas you might not in other typesof professional development situations.
I think the other thing is

(18:46):
that a lot of times professionaldevelopment opportunities
aren't extended to paraprofessionalsand non-licensed staff,
so it's nice to have this timeto let them know that they matter
and that the work that they'redoing is really important.
Yes.
And that they deserve supportbecause so many of them
are out there doing it without support.
That's what we're here for.
In Illinois, that's the library systems.

(19:07):
We're here for everyone,not just licensed librarians,
not just people with an MLIS.
You don't have to be a director.
If you have a problem,
we are here to support youand help you solve it.
Yes, we are.
This is also, I think, a good connectionto an upcoming episode
that we have where we're goingto talk more about getting connected
to other people and organizationsand the support network

(19:28):
that you can build.
The systems are just one piece of that.
I did not connect a lot whenI was a school librarian
by myself in a building
and I really regret that now.
This is me back on my soapbox.
Please connect.
Please connect with someone.
It will help you immeasurably.
I feel like I am definitely someonewho I'm reluctant to connect or I do

(19:48):
that thing where I wonder why peoplewould want to connect with me,
like, nah, they don't care.
It's fine.
I see other people making connections,and I see them having these
like really great conversations,but then I'm like,
what do I have to add to this?
I think that's probably a thingthat most people feel is,
well, what value do I bring, right?
-Exactly.-I think it's the same thing

(20:10):
we talk about, how the thingsthat we do every day as librarians
seem obvious to us
and we don't view them as special.
So just in the same way that you’retrying to share what you’re doing
with your administrators,and things like that,
to show your value as a person, too.
Your experiences are valuable eventhough they seem mundane to you

(20:32):
You might have theanswer someone's looking for.
That is really true.
That's a good point.
All right, so let's getinto the meat of this episode.
It's just you and I today, Janette.
Ola can weigh in whenshe has very strong feelings
about some of these.-[laughs]
We're doing our propaganda
we're not falling for episode
because we have a bunch of thingsthat we say to each other all the time

(20:56):
about libraries and library serviceand education and just--
I think we're going to run the gamutand cover a bunch of things.
This is going to just set the tonefor season two, right?
Exactly.
We're busting myths.
We are busting myths.
That's us, mythbusters.
Yeah, when I was thinkingthrough some of the things to include
in this episode,it was like a lot of these

(21:16):
are going to be things we've talked about.
I'm hoping that a lot of our listenerswill share a lot of these same sentiments.
Number one on the list islibraries are only for readers.
[buzzer]
Eh, that's definitely a myth, right?
Think about all the things that arein your library that are not books.
-Oh, my gosh.-Makerspace, right?
You have all kinds of technology.

(21:37):
You have all kinds of kitsand objects that make your life easier.
For instance,
you can check out an American Girl doll.
Yes, like I always love to tell the storyabout the time when my nephew
wanted to play banjo.
It's because he checked outa banjo from his library.
That's where he found it.-I love that.
Musical instruments,definitely check that out.

(21:59):
My daughter goes to the libraryto check out parking passes
to the beaches around where she lives.
-Oh, nice. I like that.-That's amazing.
-That is amazing.-It's a great idea.
I've heard of fishing poles.
That's another one.
Because if you've ever gone fishing--
Now, see, I was raised fishing,
and so we always have fishing polesready to go by our back door.
We could go find a creek to fish in.--We did, too, right.

(22:21):
If you don't fish regularly,it's an expensive hobby
to get into, so gocheck out a fishing pole,
see if you like it first.
When you want to try something out,but you don't know that you want
to take the plunge, right?
You can go to your libraryand see, they probably have
instruction manuals.
They probably have the equipment.
They probably have people whocan help you learn how to do things,
or at least connect youwith resources in your community

(22:43):
that can help you get started.
It's a lot more than just booksand more than just reading.
Although, definitely go therefor the books and the reading.
-Yes.-Or different types of books.
I feel like my dad first started usingthe library because he was repairing cars,
and they would have all of those thick,heavy car manuals that you would have
to find in storage and try notto have it crash on your head

(23:07):
and kill you.[laughter]
But he started just checking those out,and look at him now,
he's probably read allof the Polish language fiction section.
[laughs]-That's another great point, though.
When you needforeign language materials, right?
You can't buy a lot of thaton the store shelves
in America, or it's harder to findcertain translations depending

(23:29):
on the language you need.
But your library, if you ask your librarianfor a specific thing and they see a need
in their community,
they're going to start to growthat part of their collection.
Or they can borrow it foryou from another libraries.
Yes.
Thanks to our library systems.
Yes.
All about connecting peoplewith the resources they need.
I love librarianship.
Also, just as an aside,

(23:50):
all librarians are the best people on earth, so.
Oh, for real, for real.
Definitely have learned that in myyears of working as a librarian.
I think going along with all of that,the whole it's not just about books,
let's just lay it on the tableabout audiobooks, right?
This is something that I keep,I still continue to see this
all over social media,
is people complaining thatif you're listening to something,

(24:11):
you're not actually reading, and [buzzer]
again, you are actually reading.
It's still the story.
You're still hearing it.
You're still processing it the same way.
If you're not tryingto learn how to read,
there is nothing wrong with hearing a storyand then comprehending it that way.
It's just a different sensory modalityfor taking in the same story.
I feel like I don't understandthis argument ever.

(24:34):
And we can lump graphic novelsinto that because graphic novels,
oh, my gosh, the teachersused to complain to me
and complain to me like,"They're only reading graphic novels."
I'm like, "You know,some of the graphic novels had
the highest Lexiles."
They had less words,but they had the higher Lexiles.
It's amazing to me,and I'm not going to get
into the weeds of the neuroscienceof visual processing because--

(24:58):
and poor Ola, whenever I find random stats,
I'm always like, "Did you know?"
She's like, "Thanks so much,Janette, I appreciate that."
No, I'm saying thanks so much,Janette, I appreciate it.
Your brain can process thingsvisually exponentially faster
than it can readingletters versus an image.
Graphic novels are 100% reading.

(25:20):
Think about, have you ever hada conversation completely in emojis?
You know the intent of the emoji.
You don't need the actual words.
Letters are just symbols,the same as emojis are.
It just stands for something else,and you learn to put them together.
I'm not trying to discount readingas a skill by any means.
You have to be able to read, yes, but--
I mean, graphic novels,they can still tell

(25:41):
a story just with a picture, anda picture's worth a thousand words,
blah, blah, blah, anyway.
Do you remember the book,The Invention of Hugo Cabret,
by Brian Selznick?-Oh, I love, yeah.
Yes.-Yes.
Oh, my gosh.
That book is obviously a great book,and it was a great movie,
but appreciating the art in that bookis also an entirely different skillset
that they're gaining by looking at that.-Right.

(26:03):
I do rememberthe first time I ever read a book,
it was by Laurie Stolarz.
I'm trying to rememberthe title of the book,
but I had read the book in its print form.
Then she re-released itas a graphic novel.
I read it the graphic novelin 40 minutes,
as opposed to the hours it hadtaken me to read the novel.
I was like, well why wouldn'tevery book be like this?"

(26:26):
Partly, I could see maybe it was easierbecause I already knew the story,
but also just the visual,
the picture tells you so much contextuallythat they don't need words to describe.
It just you can look at itand you just know,
and you move on and you can pay attentionto something completely different
about the scene than you doif you're having to read
all those descriptive words.
I will say that kids getthrough graphic novels faster,

(26:48):
which is great, but also,as a librarian from their point of view,
it's a lot more shelving- [laughs]
-Oh, yeah---so I understand where the--
and the demandfor graphic novels, right?
How do you keep up with that?
It is impossible.
The series are 57 books long,
and it's really hardto keep up with the series.
They're long series, but
the one thing I do love about that genreor the subgenre is that they're developing

(27:11):
more and more graphic memoirs.
I feel like that's a really great wayto capture kids' attention
when they didn't maybe want to learnabout a specific person in history
and their life.
You can convey it,and it's much easier to read.
If you're doing a report and oneof your books is a graphic novel,
you can get through it a lot faster.
You still amazingly getall the facts that you need.

(27:32):
Right. And, depending on thetype of memory you have,
it might be easier to remember
where in the story you engagedwith a certain fact, like if you can
remember what the picture it was in
looked like, and things like that.
I love graphic novels.-I do, too.
I always have, even as a kid, I love them.
Rereading doesn't count as reading.
[buzzer]
I am a huge rereader.

(27:52):
I reread books all the time.
There are some books I'veprobably read a hundred times
because I love them so much.
Okay, so here's what I always saywhen people say rereading isn't reading.
If you watch a movie for the 10th time,are you still watching it?
It still takes you two hoursor however long to sit
through your next viewing of Spider-Man.
And I bet you don't have everymovie or book memorized, right?

(28:16):
You're learning new thingsor reminding yourself
of new details every time.
That's one of my favorite things about rereading
is that you do notice different things-You find these little treasures.
When I'm reading a book,if I'm really enjoying it,
I'm obviously rushing to get through itso I can find out what happens.
Right, it's the race to the finish.
Yeah.
You can savor it.
I can savor those little bits.

(28:36):
The savoring.
It's good for when you're ina reading slump to go back and reread
something that you lovedand get you going again.
I was just going to ask if you havecomfort reads because I do that.
If I'm stressed, and maybeI should save this for Shelf Care,
but if I don't know what to reador if I'm particularly stressed,
I will go back and read certain favorites.
If I'm having a hard timepicking my next book,

(28:58):
I will just go findan old favorite to read.
Sometimes, not even the whole book,sometimes I just read certain sections,
like if I know I have a favoritescene or a favorite part.
I do. I read passages--
Yes.
--because I just love itor something about it.
My number one most re-read bookis Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier.
I love that book so much.
I reread it all the time.

(29:19):
Just perfect gothic mystery, great book.
I read it as a kid and I loved it then,but now I can read it on my Kindle
and the little-- Becauseit's written like British English,
you know what I mean,so a lot of that stuff
flew right over my headwhen I read it as a younger person,
but now you can look upwhat they're talking about so--

(29:40):
[laughs]
The internet is a great thing.
There's a scene where he's going outand a boy on the beach has a handful of winkles.
I'm just like, I thought they were candywhen I read it the first time,
but they're actually little barnacle,like little sea creatures,
so yeah, fascinating.
Okay, judging people bywhat they read, for instance,
saying that romancedoesn't count as real books.

(30:02):
[buzzer]
I don't think I always felt like this.
I think I was a little bittaught to feel like this,
that what I was readingwasn't like a real book
because it was just romance.
It was just a love story.
It wasn't somethingthat was like earth-shattering,
life-changing.
I'm not saying it had to be self-help,but like a lot of people act

(30:26):
as though if it's not on an award list,then it's not worth reading.
For some people, I can understandwhy they stick with award lists.
If those are the types of books you enjoy,if you're someone who doesn't have
a lot of time to read,like you might be looking
for like, hey, what's thebest investment of my time?
Maybe you start there.
I have always enjoyed reading romance.

(30:47):
I like watching rom-coms.
I like a good love storyin a TV show, a series arc,
that kind of thing.
So it kind of is a no-brainer but also--
I think we've talked beforeabout I got started pretty early
with my little Harlequin Teen romanceand Sweet Valley High.
My mom was a romance reader.
It was just a thing that I was goingto probably always do or that happened

(31:09):
in my house, that was fine.
I was definitely taught thatI should be ashamed of or hide it.
That’s a hard thing to outgrow.
My parents never read anythingthat wasn't pretty literary,
and so I didn't read romanceuntil I got older.
I remember checkingout some paperback romances,
even, at my library,

(31:29):
and they had been on hold.
The librarian who was checking out
was like, couldn't find them.
I go, "I think they're right there."
She goes, "Oh, I didn't think youread that kind of book."
[laughs]
I was in a situation where,as an adult, we're talking,
I was almost 40,
someone said to me--
I was reading a book by Richelle Mead.

(31:50):
It was if anybody's readthe Georgina Kincaid Series,
highly recommend, but you haveto like paranormal romance, right?
It's a series about a succubus.
They're just literally like,
"Oh, do you enjoy booksthat are like that?"
I was like, "Like what?
Which part of this do youwant me to be upset about?
Do you want me to be upsetbecause it's paranormal,
because it probably has adult content?

(32:12):
What do you want me to be upsetabout or embarrassed by?"
I don't think they were tryingto embarrass me but it was
an awkward situation.
I hate that, just like the ladyreading Tessa Bailey next
to the Bible reader.-Yes, yes.
Which is why anotherreason Kindles are so great
because nobody can seewhat you're reading.
True.
Okay, so let's bring this back to somethingthat's kind of personal for me.

(32:33):
How about when people say you shouldn'town more than one copy of a book?
[buzzer]
You guys, I talk about this a lot,how book buying and book reading
are not the same two hobbies.
I do love a shelf trophy.
I will say I just boughtanother special edition
of Red, White & Royal Blue.
What's that bring your count up to?
I think I have five, which--

(32:54):
I adore that book.
--I follow someone on Bookstagram, though.
I swear she has--
I don't know. She posts her book stackof Red, White & Royal Blue only,
and it is like, it has to be 20 copiesof 20 different editions.
I'm like, where and howdo you find all of those?
Janette, what book do you ownthe most copies of?

(33:17):
You will be so surprised to find outit is the Bridgerton series.
[laughter]
I am shocked.
My jaw is on the floor.
I had no idea that youliked Bridgerton, honestly.
[laughs]
I didn't even know youlike British television.
What is so funnyabout Bridgerton is I read it
on the recommendation of a friendwhen I lived in Atlanta.

(33:38):
That was a long time ago.
I owned the mass marketpaperbacks of Bridgerton.
Then I was about the timewhen they started,
when the rights were optioned for that,
I was considering getting rid of
my mass market paperbacksbecause, honestly, let's be real,
this girl cannot read a massmarket paperback anymore.
My eyesight is not that good.

(34:00):
So that’s the first thing to go, right?
When you need to makeroom on your shelves,
you're like, what books can I not read?
I can donate thoseor sell them, or whatever.
I was like, I have a complete series.
Why would I not get rid of that?
Then I was like,oh, I'm not getting rid of that.
I have those.
I have a couple,like three or four more sets,
and there’s another setthat's coming out that,
of course, I've already pre-ordered.

(34:20):
The first three booksare coming out in the fall.
I'm like, why am I like this?
I used to be like that with the Outlander series.
I had multiple versions of it,including a signed version.
We did a fundraiser,and I contacted her and asked
her for an autographed setand she graciously provided it to us.
Then I knew it was there so I wasdetermined to win that and I did.

(34:43):
[laughs]-That's amazing.
Good for you. That's actuallyone of my favorite,
like, do you loan signedcopies of your books, right?
Typically no.
I guess I do becauseI had a friend, she was like,
"Oh, I have heardabout this Outlander series
and everyone says that I shouldread these books, or whatever.”
I was like, "I have Outlander.
Do you want to borrow it?"
She was like,"Are you sure you don't mind?"

(35:03):
I'm like, "Sure."
So a couple of days later,I get a phone call.
She's like, "Janette."I'm like, "Yeah?"
She goes, "This book is signed."
And I said “Yeah.”
She's like, "I'm going to returnthis to you immediately."
She's like, "I'm just goingto get it from the library."
I was like, "I don't care."
She's like, "If something happens to it--”
I’n like, "It'll be fine."
So apparently I don't mindloaning my signed books.

(35:25):
My signed books, I have only a few,
and I don't lend them out.
I usually have another copy.
I've gotten to the pointin my life where I'm downsizing,
so I'm much more likely to haveonly one copy on the shelf
and then a digital copy too, because,
as you said, it's much easier to read adigital copy where you can enlarge the print.
And I love to highlight, but I don'tlove to annotate in my books.

(35:49):
So on my Kindle, I will highlightpassages, and I can make notes.
I have a Kindle Scribe,
so it has a note feature.
I can write my thoughts about how I feltduring that moment or that scene
or what I'm thinking aboutwhat's happening in the plot,
which I really love, but also,
I would never do that to a book.
I have friends who buy--
They have these reallyelaborate annotation setups

(36:10):
with all their flags and tabs and markers,
and pens. I'm just like, I wouldnever highlight an actual book.
I could never.
[chuckles]
If somebody ever lends mea book that has been annotated,
I get very intimidated by it.
[laughs]
This is too much for me.
I can remember my kids in school,sometimes their reading assignments

(36:31):
were like annotate in the marginof certain passages, right?
I was like, "Don't do that.Here's a Post-it note."
But it is fun now, though,
to find in my personal library,I still have some of those books
that they annotated in school and I will--
It's funny to see
their little thoughts of whatthey were thinking
when they were readingall those different things.
I want to talk about the factthat people/school administrators say

(36:56):
that students or childrenor kids do not read for pleasure,
and for various reasons,either they just don't like it
or they don't have time.
[buzzer]
Kids do read for pleasure,or they should and if they
don't have timeto read for pleasure,
I think that says something else
about the education system, right?
Exactly. And also,

(37:17):
I want to tell thosesuperintendents who say it to me
like “they just don't use the library,they don’t read it.”
I'm like, of course, they don't.
It’s all yellow and 40 years old or more.
Yeah.-They're gross.
If you don't have books in the librarythat kids want to want to read,
then, yeah, they're not goingto come in there.
That's where the shrinkingbudgets of the school library

(37:37):
becomes a problem, right?
You have to keep addingnew material,
especially if you're talking fiction.
I mean, don’t even get started on hownonfiction can get outdated so quickly.
If you're talking about fiction,kids talk about--
I mean, BookTok, Bookstagram,
like we're talking aboutall these social media platforms
where people are discussing books,and kids have the same access

(37:57):
to those things.
Like Dog Man,those have followings online.
They want the newestand the most exciting,
and the things that their friendsare talking about.
So if you have a copyof The Wind in the Willows,
that is all dusty, [chuckles]they're not going to come read it.
How many times have youbeen part of an email thread

(38:18):
or a listserv discussionwhere they're like,
"Can somebody tell mewhy there's, suddenly,
30 holds for a certain book?"
They're like, "What's going on?"
Almost always,it's like an Instagram reel,
or a TikTok video, or something.
Or a movie trailer came out,or something like that.
Yeah, prompted it,and you’re just like,
okay, this makes sense now.
But also, as a librarian,how do you navigate that?

(38:41):
You've got to somehow find30 copies of, or figure out
like how long you wantkids to have to wait.
I used to have to buy 10 or 15 copies
of the newestDiary of a Wimpy Kid.
Then at the end of the year--
That's probably a bad examplebecause those never lost popularity,
it seemed like, but sometimeswhen a new copy would come out,
and there was a huge line for it,

(39:01):
you couldn't really justify buyingthat many more copies
because it's only goingto be popular for a very short time.
We were always trying to come upwith ways to deal with that.
But I think part of the answer to this oneis that if you are a school administrator
or somebody who caresabout students' literacy,
and you are observing that studentsdon't want to or can't read,

(39:26):
and you don't havea library and/or librarian,
and/or library staff, that's thenumber one thing you can do
to improve that situationthat you're lamenting about.
Librarians live to turnkids on to reading,
so get yourself oneand you'll see.
I feel like there's a millionthings I could add to that,
but it's so simply and perfectly stated.

(39:46):
I'm just going to leave it right therebecause it's just a very complex thing.
There's so much that librarians can do.
So the answer for kidsnot reading is not to say,
"Oh well, I guess we don'tneed all these books."
That's not the answer.
Going on to the next one.
This is a big one.
We don't have to worry aboutbook challenges in Illinois

(40:07):
thanks to the law PA 103-0100.
[buzzer]
That's not true.
It's not true.
So Illinois is obviously stillfacing book challenges,
and if you add upthe individual challenges,
Illinois is actually--
Last year, I think it was 2023.
When I last discussed this,
it was 2024, so it wouldhave been for year 2023.

(40:30):
Illinois was the leaderof book challenges individually,
not titles and not overall titles banned,
but individual, one person goingto their library to complain about a book.
Now, I will say the good newsis it did drop off in 2024.
We're definitely not at the top anymore.
I think Oregon maybe hasthe most challenges in 2024,

(40:52):
according to the ALA site,the Office of Intellectual Freedom.
In Illinois--okay, so in 2023,let's talk about those numbers.
We had 69 book challenges in Illinois,and that was for 204 different titles
that were challenged.
It's a lot, but I want to sayin the Oregon numbers I looked at,
which I didn't write down,I apologize, for 2024,

(41:14):
they were over 1000.-Oh, my Lord.
It was exponentially higher.
In Illinois in 2024, according to ALA,we had 15 attempts for 18 different titles.
However, we know that manyof them don't get reported,
so those numbers are incomplete,and it’s still, one is too many.
It's still too many.

(41:35):
The law, it is a good thing.
I'm not saying that the lawis a waste of time.
It is not. It is a great law.
However, as I learnedin the school district in my territory,
they can still ban books.
All they have to do is decidethat they don't want the money
from the state library,and they don't have
to justify banning a bookor taking it off their school shelves,

(41:57):
and it's just scary.
I can remember when this law was passed.
It was actually really great timingbecause the ALA Annual Conference was
in Chicago that summer.
I think that Secretary Giannouliaseven joined ALA
to speak for a sessionand talk about the law.
It was such a great momentfor Illinois libraries.
But also, there was a hugemisconception among people

(42:19):
from other states askingquestions about it,
thinking that this meant that there wouldnever be another book challenge in Illinois.
I was like, you can still challenge books.
Libraries still havereconsideration policies.
It just prohibits you from challenginga book based on religion or racial bias.
It was just two veryspecific kinds of things.

(42:40):
What it did was it drastically reducedthe number of organizations
that were carrying outthose nationwide challenges,
where they were like,
I can't remember what the statistics are,but it was something like there were
10 organizations or somethingresponsible for more than 80%
of all the book challenges in the country.
It's a very organized effort.
It really cut down on a lot of that.

(43:01):
What you had was some of the challengesbecame more locally focused,
so your communitywould actually bring the challenge.
Then it really did prompt,I think, school boards,
school districts,
administrators, school librarians,public librarians,
all of those entities to takea look at their policies to say,
okay, so what does happen ifsomebody wants to challenge a book?

(43:23):
Do we have something in place?
Many school districts,public library districts
were already complying with that law.
They didn't even have to makechanges to their policies.
But many were not.
Many had no policy, which is terrifyingin this day and age.
Yeah, it prompted themto create those policies.
I would say, maybe Leah,tell me if you agree with this.
I think there was a gross misunderstandingthat it was trying to take control away

(43:47):
from people at the local level.
Yes, and people still believe that,and it is not true.
There is still very much local control.
All they are saying is that if you selecta book that is otherwise appropriate
for your library, based on your populationserved and your age group
and your emotional readinessand all of that,

(44:08):
you can't take it off becauseit has a Muslim character,
for example, or anything like that.
People can still try,and they will still do it.
And as I found out,
sadly, there are schoolsthat will allow parents to do that.
Allow one parent to say they don'twant a certain kind of character
in their school library, and they will say,

(44:30):
"Okay, we just won't take the statemoney. We would rather censor books,”
which is sad and scary.
There’s also, because of this law,
there's a growing fear that librariansare going to censor materials
or censor their selections.
We call that soft censorship.
What do you think about that?
It's definitely a huge problem in Illinois

(44:50):
and everywhere, because
do you want to be called outin the local newspaper for putting
pornography in school libraries,which is what the complainers
say when they come upwith a challenge about a book
that they don't likethat might have
more mature content?
The Intellectual FreedomCommittee that I'm a part of for

(45:10):
the Illinois Library Association,
we are doing a session
at the ILA conferenceabout soft censorship
and the chilling effect that this law andthe climate in general has on librarians,
because they are definitelychoosing not to collect
a book for their collectionif it might lead to an uproar.

(45:33):
I think that's the simplest way to say it.
Yeah, I mean there’s a veryreal fear for librarians, I think,
about the pushback.
Like, is your administratorgoing to be upset with you?
Does it directly reflecton your job performance?
What's the repercussion for selectinga book that could be controversial?
I think a lot of times,the path of least resistance
is what people choose.

(45:53):
And I understand thatfrom a lot of standpoints.
-I do too.-But also, we have to,
as librarians, ethically make surethat we're representing our communities.
So it would be unfair to not selectbooks that are representative
of a part of your population,
just because anotherpart of your population
might object.
So it’s like, there’s a very realquandary that librarians face,

(46:17):
and it's a difficult time to be a librarian.
I sent a librarian friend of mine
a sticker that says stop criminalizing librarianship.
Ten years ago, I don't think thosestickers would have even existed.
But now,
to your point about people sayingthat they're being called groomers
and all these other things,and that you're putting
pornography in the library,I will tell you 100%

(46:39):
your library does not have pornography.
Like your child's phonemight have pornography,
or access to it anyway,more so than a library.
Libraries just aren't those types of places.
Do we have adult content?
Sure, but it's labeled adult content.
I think one of my biggest objectionsis the people who just want to put it

(47:00):
over here,put it behind the desk,
put it somewhere where kids won'tsee it, not realizing that that is
a violation of the First Amendment.
You can't do that.
So you have to be very carefulonce something's in your collection,
how you handle it.
And that’s the other thing that we talkabout with the Public Act 103-0100.

(47:20):
This happened to mebecause I was a new librarian.
I came into an already stocked library.
There were hundreds of bookson the shelf that I did not select,
so I didn't know anything about them.
Every once in a while,I would find a book,
and I would think, you know what?
This really does not fit here.
It's a little too mature.
Maybe this belongs in a high school.

(47:41):
It's a little much for my sixththrough eighth graders.
That's another fear thatpeople have about the law,
that they can never takea book off the shelf.
But I could prove that it did not fitmy collection development policy,
so it was very easy to remove a book,and it still remains easy to remove
a book that does not fit yourcollection development policy.
Yeah, I had someone ask me,so if it's not for religion

(48:03):
or for racial bias, why else wouldsomeone want to remove
a book from a collection?
I was like, well, if it's found to be harmfulto a student or a child psychologically,
surely I would hope people would wantto challenge those materials.
The thing is that you haveto be able to prove it.
I think there was alsoa rash of challenges where people

(48:23):
weren't even reading the books.
They were just being given a list.
Like I was talking aboutthose national organizations
that would say, "These are allthe things you don't want
because they depict all of these things."
Sometimes when you dug into it,you would read the actual scene,
and you're like, that’s nothing.
Sometimes it wasn't evenwhat was happening.
One of my kids,

(48:44):
I think, was the one who said to me,"The Night Kitchen? Really?”
That Maurice Sendak book,where it just shows his little naked bum.
You're like, really, that?
You don't want that in your librarybecause it's a naked butt.
Yeah, so, do librarians never censor books?
[buzzer] Sometimes they do.
And it’s something that you haveto admit to yourself and face,

(49:07):
which it is very hard to say,
you know, I’m just not going to getthat book because I don't want to deal
with the headache that comes with it.
Okay, let me ask you this.
Do you think all books havea place in the library?
No. And it depends on the library,and it depends on the population
that you serve, and it dependson a lot of things.
This is another one where librariansare finding themselves stuck and not sure

(49:27):
what to do because everybody is arguing,well, if you're going to put one book
in the library, you should put a bookthat has the opposite point of view
in the library.
But if the opposite point of viewis completely factually incorrect--
Yeah, false and made up.
Yeah, false information.
I don't think that hasa place in the library.
I struggle with this on booksthat are based on conspiracy theories.

(49:50):
Part of me thinks from a historicaldocumentation standpoint,
it is interesting to see that there'sdocumentation of that for the masses.
That this is a thing that peoplekind of thought might be true.
But also, you have to be very carefulhow you treat those materials
because you really could givesomeone the wrong impression.

(50:11):
Yes, like this is the faked moon landing.
If there's a book aboutthe faked moon landing,
and it's shelved right therewith the rest of space.
This also goes back to the whole
if your collection's outdated,
people might think that every computerhas a floppy disk drive.
Exactly.
[laughs]-You have to be really careful.
Especially for school libraries,

(50:33):
you have a very narrow age range,
and you have a very specific set of goals.
So, no, I don't think that every bookhas a place in every library.
One of my examples isif you belong to a certain religion,
and it's not let's saya mainstream religion,
I think you should be able to get booksabout that topic if it interests you,

(50:55):
and you want to learn more about it.
I think that's an important wayto learn about religions
that aren't your own, too.
I learned a lot about my friendsand the religions that they observe,
without them feeling like they haveto teach me about their religion.
I can just read aboutthe theoretical basis
and the theology behind itand all of that.
The other thing is,though, that librarians

(51:15):
have a limited budget, so they cannotbuy every book to put on the shelf.
They have to make choicesbased on priorities.
So if they have the top threereligions in their town,
those are the booksthey're going to collect.
Yeah, I mean, your collection is supposedto reflect the people that you serve,
so that’s where it becomes very importantthat you make sure that that's happening.
It's a very fine line to walkbetween reflecting your population,

(51:39):
but not refusing to collect anythingthat doesn't reflect your population.
We could talk about this onefor an entire episode and even longer.
An entire series.
A whole season.
The next propagandawe're not falling for,
you can't read a series out of order.
[buzzer]
Even though that breaksthe rules in my heart.

(52:02):
Ola disagrees with us on this.
I don't disagree.
I think it's dependent on the series.
It is dependent on the series.-Listen, you an do whatever you want.
But should you?
So I will say this, I've read serieswhere if you read them out of order,
you would be very confused.
You would not understand,especially if it has
a long series arc or things like that.

(52:23):
A lot of romance series,
especially, are like,
each book is about a different couple.
That you can absolutely, yes.
Sometimes, the things in the world,maybe there will be overarching themes
that are throughout the series.
Maybe there's small spoilersif you read them out of order.
But I definitely am guiltyof occasionally skipping books,
especially if they havetropes I don't like,

(52:44):
and I know I'm going to hate it.
I'm like, why would I,
there's too many books in the world.
Books like that,it's almost like if you read them
in order, it's justa little extra Easter egg.
It's adding to your experience,but if you read them out of order,
you're not losing anything crucial.
Just because you know the destinationdoesn't mean you understand the journey.

(53:05):
Wow.
So deep.
I will frequently read a romanceset of standalones out of order.
And then I’m like, I'll readabout the heroine's best friend
and her husband.
Then I go back and readanother one, and I'm like,
oh, they hated each otherat the beginning.
[laughs]
A little bit of a spoiler,I know they end up--
Sometimes you're confused.You're like, wait a minute.
Why are they friends?They're not friends.

(53:26):
You're like, oh, they are friends.
The funniest thing to me is whenyou come to a series as it's being written,
and then someone else comes to itafter it's completed,
and they're jumping all over.
They're like, "I read book one,then I read book eight,
and then I read book four."
I'm like, how could you possibly do that?
Knowing I had no choice.

(53:47):
I had to go one, two, three,
because I read them as they came out.
It's just so different.
I think it's the same thing as TV shows,binging them on Netflix versus
when we were growing up, Leah,
you waited with bated breathfor that next episode of ER.
Also, if you missed it,
you were out of luck back then,unless you had a way to record it.

(54:09):
It's why must-see TV wasa marketing strategy that worked.
Because everybody was home watching it.
This one is kind of about the same thing.
You have to like every bookby your favorite authors.
[buzzer]You do not.
You do not.
It hurts to admit it.
It is so sad when one of themjust doesn't hit the same.

(54:30):
-You're like, what happened?-It is.
But you know what?
It's understandable.
I especially hate it when they branchout of their genre that I know them for
because I'm like, I'm not sure I'm going to like this.
But see like, Colleen Hoover, for example,I've only read one book of hers,
Verity.
And I've never read any of herothers because when I've tried,
I'm like, I don't thinkI'm going to like this.

(54:51):
Every book has a reader.
Do you ever choose not to reada book by an author you enjoy?
Aside from that Colleen Hooverexample you just gave,
do you ever not read a book by an author?
Like, "I've loved everythingI've ever read by her,
but this one book is about somethingthat I don't want to read about."
Like, it’s a topic you don't likeor a trope you don't like.

(55:12):
Would you still read it?
Like Rebecca Yarros,I've really gotten into her books.
I love her books, but I haven'tread the Fourth Wing.
Oh, the series?Empyrean series.
Yeah, I haven't read the Empyreanseries because it's fantasy,
and that's not reallywhat I'm used to from her.
It's romantasy.
I will probably like it,but I haven't read it.

(55:33):
Okay, here’s another one.The movie is better than the book.
[buzzer]Not always.
-Not always.-Almost never, I would say.
Almost never.
There is one book that I read that I thinkthe movie is infinitely better.
It's Contact by Carl Sagan.
Oh, okay.
Interesting.-I love the movie.
Loved the movie.
It is a good movie.

(55:53):
The book was very thick.
They could have editeda lot out of that book.
I thought that was a good example,but that's pretty much my only example.
Most of the time, I prefer the book.
I usually prefer the book for sure.
I will say the closest movieadaptation for me
that was almost as good as the bookwas probably The Hunger Games.

(56:14):
That trilogy, I feel like,did really, really well.
I would say maybe, like, did youever read Game of Thrones?
I read the first book.
I think the series is better, honestly.
[laughs]-The series is good.
That's why I was like,I think it's good,
but I also feel like theytook creative license,
and they ran with some storylinesthat aren't really in the books.
The series isn't even done.

(56:36):
George RR Martin's still workingaway at the series.
I think it's the same thingwith Outlander.
Although, full disclosure,
I stopped watching theOutlander series after season two.
I didn't like the Outlander series.
I just didn't wantthose characters to replace
the characters I had alreadycreated in my head.
Not like I'm saying I could do it better.
I'm just saying like,

(56:57):
I liked my own view of those charactersand my understanding of the stories
so much that I didn't really want itto be retold to me by someone
who was changing it.
I don't know. Sometimes I have caughtmyself reading a book and thinking,
this story would have beenbetter as a show or a movie.

(57:18):
Oh, I could see that.
I was like, this shouldn'thave been a book.
Or it’s so hard to describe with wordsthat watching it would be easier.
Or even certain things, I think in certain romances
where I'm like,oh, no, it's not cute.
It's kind of just cringe.
And then I'm like, oh, it could havebeen like Riverdale or something.
It's for a certain audience--Oh my gosh, Riverdale.

(57:39):
--but not for me.
I really thought I wouldstruggle with Bridgerton
because of the adaptation being--
a lot of it is very different.
They change a lot of the storylines--They did change a lot of it.
and the seasons have happenedout of order from the series,
and things like that,which when you are a purist,
it's hard to get on boardwith some of that.

(58:00):
Also, I'm sorry, those arebooks where there's
a lot of sitting aroundpining for someone.
That doesn't translate to good TV.
I do love some hardcore piningin a romance novel,
but watching someone sit and yearnfor someone from afar does really not make
good television.
On the other hand, I frequently can enjoya movie made based on a book.

(58:25):
I don't always regretwhat they've cut out.
Sometimes they've made very good choices.
I'm like, oh yeah, I can seewhy they got rid of that.
But sometimes I'm just like,what did they do?
They butchered it.
It's almost like it has to beso different than the original
that it becomes almosta completely separate piece of art.
For example, my kidshave never read Harry Potter

(58:47):
because they've seen the movies,and they appreciate the movies
as the art forms that they are,
and so they don't want to ruin that.
How do you feel about fanfic?
Do you ever read fanfiction?
I do read fanfiction from time to time.
Because it kind of goesalong that same lines.
It's taking a world and charactersthat you already know
and manipulating them in a different way.

(59:09):
I think you have to disconnectfrom the original in order to be able
to accept it as its own thing.
It's basically just like watchinga continuation of your favorite show.
Sometimes I like fanfictionbecause they put the characters
in the situation that I wanted for them.
[laughs]
I think that's pretty muchthe purpose of fanfiction.
The next one is, you haveto finish every book you start.

(59:32):
[buzzer]
I'm a do-not-finisher.
I can count on one handhow many I have not finished.
Gosh, all I've learned aboutmyself throughout this podcast is
how much of a rule follower I am.
I'm the one who makes the rules,so I don't know why I don't bend them.
I also struggle to not finish books.

(59:53):
Once I start, I feel like I haveto see it through.
There's something about quittingthat feels like giving up.
There are times, though,
where it’s like, this bookis not going to get better,
or I just can't connectwith the story, or I can't get into it.
I will say, I do have,
to Ola's point about rules,
I do try to get through at leasta quarter or 30% of the book

(01:00:13):
before I will put it down.
I read 50 pages.
If I don't like it,if it hasn't hooked me,
I ditch it.
But I wasn't always like that.
That is an older me now that I've realizedthat I'm not going to live forever,
and I can't read them all.[laughs]
I'm hoping one day I can growup to be just like you, Leah.
I used to tell my kidswhen I would pick a book for them,

(01:00:36):
I’m like, "Go try it, but if youdon’t like it, bring it back.”
Especially with kids thatyou're trying to hook them.
If you hate it, don't read it.
It's just going to reinforcethat you hate reading.
It's so funny because it's so obvious.
I would never tell one of my niecesto finish that book if you don't like it.
Why can't I tell myself that?
I ask myself that all the timebecause I don't judge other people

(01:00:59):
for not finishing books that they start.
For me,
it's almost like I'm lookingfor a reason wrong with myself
why I can't like the book.
What is it that I don't like?
Sometimes it's just notthe right book for you.
Especially if you knowother people really liked it.
I do firmly believeevery book has a reader.

(01:01:21):
I do also realize sometimesI'm not that reader.
That's a hard place to be.
I'm like, I want to love everything.
I want to love everything, too.
Especially if you really like and respectthe person who recommended it to you,
and you're just like, I hate this book.
Because you know thenyou're going to have to tell them.
You see all the hypeonline, and you're like,
I don't get the hype.
I don't understand why you'reall going feral for this book.

(01:01:44):
Go back toAll the Light We Cannot See.
[laughs]
-I loved that book.-Once again,
every book has its audience,and we are not all the same.
Okay, so that brings us to shelf care.
What are you doing to maintain your sanityand take care of yourself right now?

(01:02:05):
You know what?
This is a hard one
because I feel like latelyI have been more distracted
and stressed than I canremember in a long time.
For a while there, readingand disassociating was getting me
through it, and now that'snot really even doing it.
I've been trying to pick upa lot of craft projects and things

(01:02:25):
that I had put down,like designing things.
I have a vinyl cutter.
I also have a laser cutter,
so trying to do those types of projects.
It's harder for me because ifI don't have a specific purpose--
a lot of times I would make thingsfor gifts or for my kids or whatever.
Sometimes, if I don't havethat intended outcome,
it's harder for me creatively.

(01:02:47):
But I do enjoy just the creativeprocess and getting lost in it.
Like when we made thefriendship bracelets last year
for the AISLE conference,
I did pick up my string againand just beaded some stuff.
Even though I ended updumping it at the end,
I didn't save them,
the process is very relaxing for me.
That's what I'm doing.

(01:03:07):
What are you doing, Leah?
This is going to sound so weirdcoming from me because this
is not something I wouldhave said a year ago.
I've been trying to maketime to A, get outside,
and B, exercise.
Those are so important.
A year ago, I would be like,I hate exercise.
I hate being outside.

(01:03:28):
The two things can be trueat the same time.
You can still hate it and still do it.
But I haven't been hating it.
I've been enjoying it.
That's good. I'm glad.
I've been really liking it.
My daughter was telling me thisbecause she really changed her lifestyle,
and she goes, "It's horrible.
I feel great, which meansI have to keep doing it."
That's kind of the situation I'm in.

(01:03:48):
So this morning I got up and Iwent and swam laps at the Y.
Wow.
Nice. Good for you.
It felt great.
I'm going to keep doing it as longas it still feels good.
We'll keep trying.
What about you, Ola?
The last time I did my Shelf Care,I talked about my puzzle and Bravo combo.
But lately, I've been seeking outdocumentaries and docuseries

(01:04:11):
because I find that there's something
about that makes me feel so cozy,
even though they're usually really morbid.
The last one I watched wasThe Mortician on HBO.
I started that.I've just seen the first episode.
This man does some horriblethings with dead bodies.

(01:04:32):
For some reason, learningabout it brings me so much joy
in a weird way.
I think it's just learning,
and maybe it's alsomy journalism background.
Just hearing weirdniche stories fills my cup.
And there’s something about it becausewe went through a big thing trying

(01:04:55):
to get kids to read nonfiction,and we really leaned
into narrative nonfiction.
One of the most popular bookswas about what happens to a body
after they die.
The information that morticians knowabout just mortuary science and death
and grieving in the United States, I think,
not to everybody, but I am with you.
I find that fascinating.

(01:05:16):
I have on several occasions
have been like,should I become a mortician?
Maybe that will bemy second career in life.
There's something really beautifulabout helping families grieve
through that time, and honoringbodies and souls and all these things,
unless you're the guy who'sthe subject of the documentary,

(01:05:38):
in which case,
that doesn't happen.
But I think what makesthe docuseries compelling is
that they do interview that man,so you see him talking about it.
It's just so fascinating.
So any morbid, creepy documentaryrecs, send them my way.
All right.

(01:05:58):
Thank you both for being here.
I'm excited for another great season.
Me too.
Thank all of you for listening.
If you have questionsor topic ideas, please reach out.
You can leave us a voicemailon our hotline at 630-734-5015.
Until next time,stay legit and don't quit.