The One Where They Get Connected

Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Hi, welcome to Can't Shelve This,
the podcast where we hammer home
the importance of school libraries.
I'm Janette Derucki,
and I'm joined by my co-host,Leah Gregory.
Hi, everyone.
And our producer, Ola Gronski.
Hi, everyone.
Happy September.
So glad to be back with both of you
for another episodeof Can't Shelve This.
This is going to be an exciting one.

(00:32):
I'm really excited to talkabout getting people
connected and networkingand all the ways
that they can find supportin the library community.
One of the best placesto do that is actually coming up,
the AISLE Conferencewill be coming up in October.
It's a great placefor school librarians
in Illinois to get connectedwith each other.
And with us.
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.

(00:53):
Yeah,
so we are going to be havinga live podcast at AISLE.
I don't know how we are allowedto do that, but [chuckles]
we are going to be recordinga live episode
and hopefully hearingfrom our audience members,
and they can be guestson the podcast in person.
I'm so excited about this.

(01:13):
I'm really excited about this, too,
but I do wantto make sure people know
that it's going to bean audio-only episode.
So if you are camera-shy,please still feel free to join us.
Important to know
because a lot of peopledon't want to be on camera,
so audio only.
We don't know exactly,
we've never done this before,
so it's going to be like a littlebit of a guinea pig session.
Trial and error,

(01:33):
you'll be there with usas we figure out this format.
[chuckles]
We are going to help you outa little bit with a prompt.
Yeah, so we want to explore the topicof a school library utopia.
And so we’re going to be askingaudience members to think about
what is one thingthat your library has or does

(01:54):
that you think everylibrary should have.
I love that.
I'm hoping that peopleare going to share not just materials
and platformsor resources that they have,
but also programsand other things that they do,
because a lot of schoollibrarians are out
there doing some really cool things.
We want to make sure
that the stories that peoplehave are attainable

(02:14):
because when we thinkabout a school library utopia,
things would probably be far-fetched,
like unlimited budgetsand this and that,
but what are attainable things
that your colleagueshave or do that maybe
they can help you get started with?
I think we will haveso many great ideas.
It's just typical of librarians

(02:36):
that they have all these great ideas,
and then they're like, "Oh, well,
nobody really wants to hear that,"
but I assure you,we do want to hear it.
Somebody will takeyour great idea and put it in place
in their library and justbe absolutely thrilled with it,
so please come and sharebecause we're all better together.
I definitely think peoplehave a tendency to discount

(02:58):
the work they do every dayas just routine or nothing special,
but you would be surprisedat how what you consider
to be an everyday thingis someone else's great new idea
that they can implementin their library
that's going to really improvetheir situation.
Please come and share.
Just look at our trackrecord of guests on this show.

(03:18):
Every single one of themhas shared something with me
that completely blew me away
and made me think about
how it can be donein other locations.
Everybody has something to share.
I think it's also a great placeto meet people and connect.
It makes me think of situationswhere you're with a large group
of people and they're all strangers,

(03:39):
but you have something in common,
so you kind of bond throughthat shared experience.
Have you ever beenin a situation like that?
Like the DMV.
When you're alljust stuck there? [laughter]
Shared misery?
Yeah.
It's funny how, to me,most people in that environment
are open to conversationwith strangers
because you're all stuckthere together.

(04:00):
Occasionally, you get thedeath stare that's like,
"Leave me alone."
I'm thinking about recently I met up
with a friend in Detroit, and we went
on the DetroitPrincess Riverboat cruise.
Have you ever been on that?
It sounds like fun, though.
It was fun.
It was a lunch cruise.
It was like they have a littleMotown show, but there's a DJ.
When they don't have the Motownshow while you're eating,

(04:21):
you are listening to this DJ.
He does a show, and he's calling up
audience members, and he's like,"Does anybody have a birthday?
Is anybody from out of town?"
The woman at the tablenext to ours, it was her birthday.
And her partner is pointing to her like,"It's her, it's her."
And she’s like, "No."

(04:41):
My friend and I are dyinglaughing because we're like,
we wouldn't wantto go up there either.
To our right, there's another table
with a girl who it isalso her birthday.
Her partner is like, "You should go."
She looks at me,and I was like, I wouldn't go.
She's like, "I'm not going."
Immediately, we start
this conversation aboutgetting up in front of people
and crowds or whatever.

(05:02):
It was funny, though,because then the DJ turns the tables.
He lets all the people on the stage
pick another personto take their place.
And then they do a hula hoop contest.
It was one of those situations
where you would just talkto everybody and anybody.
We're talking about thingson the shore, and someone was like,
"Is that the distilleryhe was talking about?"

(05:23):
And somebody else would answer.
It didn’t matter thatyou weren’t together.
So I feel like a lot of timesconferences for librarians
can become thosesame types of things.
You're in a session, and the personnext to you may be somebody
you don't know,but you're both interested
in a particular topic, and so thenyou kind of bond over that.
We were stuck in a linewhen we were in Europe.

(05:43):
We went to see Windsor Castle,and we were in line to get in,
and the tour guidewas telling us a story.
She was telling the storyof Edward VII and Wallis Simpson.
We're just standingthere listening because my whole
family are history buffsand we knew the story.
She goes,"Oh, just a minute, hold on."
And apparently, two of thepeople in our tour group

(06:04):
were in the wrong tour group.
So she took them outof line and took off.
And the people in front ofus turns around and goes,
"Well, what happened?
Did they get married?"
[laughs]
We're like, "yes, they did.
He had to give upbeing the king, though."
We were finishing the story.
Anytime you're in a line,I think that's a great place to bond

(06:26):
with somebodythat you've never met before.
Then you're like, sometimesyou meet really cool people
and you're like,oh, here's a good one.
I was in line to meet Jason Momoa.
That's how every great story begins.
We were in line,and it was a very long line,
and it was about two hoursof shuffling back and forth.
I met this woman in front of me.
We chatted the whole time.
We were so excited to meetJason Momoa.

(06:47):
Then we're getting closerand we're getting closer
and the anxiety [laughs] is building.
You get your picture taken with him,
which I have the famous picture
where my husband is lookingat his watch very sadly,
when I'm standing upagainst Jason Momoa.
[laughs]
Honestly, I don't remembermeeting Jason Momoa
because I was so keyed up.
But I get out, and you goover to wait for your picture.

(07:08):
That woman comes running up.
She's like, "Didn't he smell great?"
[laughter]
You're like, “I don't remember
anything about this experience.”
Yes.
“The scents, the sights,
the sounds, nothing.”
I would love to talk to her again
because that was a really funway to pass two hours.
I can guarantee that the people
at the AISLE Conferenceare going to be amazing.

(07:31):
The more you connect with people,
the more you will get out of it,so don't be afraid to strike up
those forced proximity conversations.
I think this is a great segueinto this month's episode topic.
Today, we're excitedto welcome two guests
to the podcast to discussprofessional organizations,
whether you love them or hate them,and how you can get

(07:51):
connected to your fellow librarians
beyond your own library walls.
Our first guest is Cyndi Robinson.
She's the executive directorof the Illinois Library Association.
Welcome, Cyndi.
Thank you for having me today.
We're glad you're here.
Next, we have K.C. Boyd,
who you may knowas the Boss Librarian.
She's a librarian
in the Washington, D.C. publicschool system and also was

(08:15):
the 2022 School Library JournalSchool Librarian of the Year.
We are so thrilled to have you here.
Welcome, K.C.
Thank you for having me.
So we like to kick things off
with a little bit of anicebreaker just to get
the conversation started.
We're going to askyou the real hard-hitting question
of what kind of readerdo you consider yourself to be?
Do you primarily read print books,e-books, or audiobooks?

(08:39):
So I used to read a lot of books,but in the last few years
I've been listeningto more audiobooks.
Yeah, that’s your preferred medium?
Yeah.
I don't have a lot of timeto sit down and read
so I can, like, doing laundry
or working in the gardenwhile listening.
Or driving. [laughs]
Exactly, yes,across our beautiful state.

(09:02):
I'm impressedby people who can listen
to audiobooks while they work.
I cannot do that.-I cannot do that either.
I cannot attend to those tasks.
I will tune out of the whole story,and then pretty soon,
people are getting married.
I'm like, when didyou even start dating?
I don't even know what book this is.
That's amazing.
How about you, K.C.?
I used to be a printand e-book reader.

(09:23):
And when I moved to the DMVarea and started working
for the District of Columbiapublic school system,
and had to startdealing with DMV traffic,
I started really gettinginto audiobooks.
So I'm now an audiobook lover
because this trafficis horrendous here.

(09:44):
It's the worst in the country.
Recently announcedthe worst in the country.
Oh, wow.
Even worse than Atlanta?
It is.
I lived in Atlanta for a while,
and let me tell you,that traffic is no joke.
It was just recently announced,
so I was like, yes, I agree 100%.
I've driven in all the worst,
I've driven in LA, Manhattan,Atlanta, and the D.C. area.

(10:07):
I have been to all theworst traffic areas.
That's just another traveling milestone.
Your claim to fame.
Yeah.
[laughs]
I love that everybodythat answers this question
is committed stillto reading and literature
and doing what they love,but they are just adapting it.
And thank God for technology
that makes it possiblefor us to do that.

(10:27):
Thank goodness.
Absolutely.
Do either of youhave a favorite genre
to listen to or a favorite narrator?
I have a tendency to tryand listen to as many books
that my students are interested in,
especially on the fiction side.
And then second is always me,[chuckles] what I'm interested in.
I'm a big romance lover.
Yay.

(10:47):
Yes, woohoo.
You are among romance friends,let me tell you that.
Yes, we are big romance fans here.
I mostly listen to mysteriesand horror, and history.
Nice, nice.
And I have a favorite narrator
that I almost don'tlisten to audiobooks
unless it's Julia Whelan narrating.

(11:10):
Oh, interesting.
I have a very strong preference
for listening to herover anybody else.
She is good.
She does good work.
Let's get started by justanother pretty easy question.
Let's start with K.C.
I was just curious how you gotinto librarianship?
Oh, real easy.
It was my late father.
Really?

(11:30):
Yeah, and actually,
I am a native Chicagoan.
Aw.
I started working forChicago Public Schools eons ago.
Before then, I was workingin corporate America and hated it.
My late father, who was a veteranChicago Public Schools teacher,
swooped in and he said,"Okay, look, [chuckles]

(11:52):
you finishedin college in this field,
but I can see you're not happy.
Why don't you go backand go into education
where you can reallymake a difference,
because you're a creative.
You like to help people."
I didn't know what I wanted to do.
I was like, okay, I could bea fourth-grade teacher.
Then we startedreally talking more deeply.
Then he's like, "You like to read.

(12:15):
Why don't you get your degreein library information science?"
Then I talked to thelibrarian at a school,
and I shadowed her for one day,and I was hooked at that point.
That's amazing.
I'm a fellow former corporateemployee turned school librarian.
[laughs]
Yeah, yeah.
I felt like if I'm going to work
all the rest of my life,I'm not doing this.

(12:36):
I wanted to do something, justlike you, that makes a difference.
Yeah, and I was in corporate recruiting.
I went from corporaterecruiting into librarianship.
Wow.
School librarianship at that.
That's amazing. How about you, Cyndi?
How did you get started?
You know, it was just an accident.
[chuckles]
I graduated from Loyola in 1990,

(12:57):
and I kind of feel likeI want to work at a nonprofit,
like do somethingto make the world better.
I worked at a small organization
that wasn't a verygood place to work.
I was like, I thinkI want to get a new job.
[chuckles]
So I was at my parents' house,and they had the Sunday Tribune.
Which is now this big,but it used to be that big.

(13:19):
Yeah, I remember those days.
Yeah, and I saw this ad
for the American Library Association
for the Office forIntellectual Freedom.
And they wanted this really specific,an app that they used.
We didn't call them apps.
That was the long days.
I can't remember what it was called.

(13:39):
But it was like I knewhow to do it from my old job.
That's how I got the jobbecause I knew how to use this.
And we were using it to,
this is when we had just startedtracking banned books and calls
to the library for challenges.
And so that’s kind ofhow I ended up there,

(14:02):
and within the first year,I was like, I found my people,
and I'm going to library school.
The end.-That's amazing.
So were you at ALAbefore you transitioned
to ILA, or did you go-
-Yes.-somewhere else in between?
Okay.
I worked at ALA.
Judith Krug was the director.
She was an icon.
And when I told herI was going to go
to library school,she was so delighted.

(14:25):
I was there for about seven years
when Bob Doyle called me up one day--
Bob Doyle, I feel like everybodyshould know who Bob is.
Bob was one of the peoplethat created Banned Books Week.
He worked at ALA
and then he came over to ILAto be the executive director.
A couple years later,he called me up and said,

(14:46):
"Hey, do you want a job?" [chuckles]
I was like, well,that sounds interesting.
I think that might be fun.
Because I was getting tired of peopleyelling at me on the phone.
That does get tiresome.
-It does.-It was, yeah.
Seven years was about enough time.
A good example of how connections
are important in libraryworld because-
Absolutely, yes.

(15:06):
a lot of us are where we are
because of the connectionsthat we have made.
Yeah, that is very true.
K.C., I'm curious where yougot your library degree?
I earned my degreeat Chicago State University,
and I had some wonderful professorsthere that really trained me
very well in school librarianship.

(15:27):
I'm forever grateful to them,especially Dr. Gayles Evans,
who still is teaching to this day.
Oh, that's amazing.
She's in her 80s,
and she's still teaching a courseor two for Chicago State University.
She's well knownthere at that school.
I love hearingthat because their program,
I believe, just got,a couple of years ago,
was just re-accredited.

(15:49):
It's really exciting times.
It opens up another avenuefor people to get
into the profession,which is much needed,
especially in the Chicagoland area.
Well, we’ve long hadstudents at Dominican
that have been taking courseworkat Chicago State University.
That's a quiet known fact.
Folks were like, "Really?"

(16:10):
I'm like, yeah, our program
was more developedthan Dominican was.
That's good to know.
Another place to refer people to.
Because I'm like your former boss,
who was so delighted whensomebody goes into librarianship.
I'm just like, yes, here,let me sign you up.
[laughter]
I just think it's important.
I feel like in a state like Illinois,it's such a populous state.

(16:30):
We have the third-largest cityin the country,
but we have very few schools
that are accreditedfor librarianship.
It's kind of shocking out ofthe number of universities we have.
I feel like the more accesspoints we have,
the better off we are, especiallyin the Chicagoland area,
just because that's wherethere's a large population.
It’s just like that in D.C.

(16:52):
There's a lot of library schoolshere in the DMV area.
When I say DMV area,
I'm talking about D.C.,Maryland, and Virginia.
There's a lot of library schoolshere to take advantage of.
One of the more populousones is Catholic,
which has a strongprogram for school libraries,

(17:12):
and of course,University of Maryland,
which my former boss,who's now retired,
he just retired,Dr. Kevin Washburn,
was a professor there for a while.
University of Maryland hasa strong program, too.
That's nice.
I think, too, it's worth mentioning.
I did my program at Rutgers,but I live in Chicago.

(17:32):
I did it all online.
I think there's a lot more potentialfor that type of work, too.
If you find a programthat meets your needs,
the opportunity is there in a lotof different attendance.
I did mine online,out-of-state as well.
I think that's the waveof the future,
and library schools areobviously embracing that
because many librariansget their degrees

(17:53):
through a program like that.
But how do they do cataloging?
That's what I always say.
[laughter]
I had to do cataloging face-to-face.
I don't understandhow can you do cataloging?
Dr. Jashuel Patel at Chicago Statetaught us cataloging,
and it had to be face-to-face.
I don't know how it's taught online.

(18:14):
If you're able to do it,God bless you and your ministry.
I don't know how you're ableto do it, but me,
and the way I learned, I had to learncataloging face-to-face.
Here's a little-known fact.
I almost became a catalogerbecause I loved it so much,
and I ended up in schools.
[laughs] I almost did.
I almost went on that side.
I loved cataloging.

(18:35):
He almost convincedme to get into cataloging.
And here you are.
Somehow, you resisted.
One of my daughtersjust finished her MLIS.
She got her degree at Dominican,
but the cataloging class she had,
I believe, had a Zoom component to it.
So I think that's maybehow they're handling that.
It's not in person,
but you still get a littlebit of that face-to-face.

(18:58):
Because I can imagine some of that
is you need to ask questions,
and someone needs to guide you.
Otherwise, you cango really off the rails
with cataloging if you'retrying to teach yourself.
[laughter]
And the good thing aboutschool librarianship
is that you get to do everything.
You don't have to specialize.
You get to do everythingas a librarian.
All of those skills are valuable.

(19:19):
All of them.
They definitely are.
So we invited you here today
because you are both connected
to various libraryprofessional organizations.
I would love to hear more about
the organizationsthat you're affiliated with,
and then just how you got started.
What was your interest in gettingconnected to those groups,
and what do you get out of it?

(19:39):
So I kind of ended in the lap of ALA. [chuckles]
But one of the thingsthat I really appreciated
when I moved from ALA to ILA
was that I could nowbe on ILA committees.
And I immediately, of course, joinedthe Intellectual Freedom Roundtable.

(20:00):
Over the years, I was president,
I was treasurer, I've been on lots
of committees, and I served two years
on the Freedom to ReadFoundation and other things.
But the thing that I'm actuallymost excited about
is that I'm a trustee of theLeRoy Merritt Humanitarian Fund,
which supports librariansfacing discrimination

(20:23):
or being fired for supportingintellectual freedom.
Intellectual freedom is the reasonI went to library school.
It's why I'm in this job,because it's so important to me.
I got involvedwith the American Library Association
when I was a studentat Chicago State University.

(20:44):
And the reason beingis that my professor,
Dr. Gayles Evans,
really stressedthe importance of being
a member of a national organization.
I was a member of a local and state,
and I thought that was good enough.
But she really stressed the importanceof national organizations.
There were a myriad of reasons.

(21:06):
I'll be on this podcast all day
explaining the reasonsthat she gave us during that time.
At that time, I decidedto get a student membership,
which was discounted,
and I encourage, if you're a studentlistening to this podcast,
take advantageof the student discount,
because it's very helpful for youwhile you're going through school.

(21:28):
I kept the studentdiscount during that time.
There were some timeswhile I was in school
that I couldn't affordpaying for school
at the time and membership.
And I didn't know at the time
that I could have takenadvantage of it,
because I was in a different,I was working on my degree
in education leadership.

(21:49):
So it was a misunderstanding on my part.
I thought that because I wasworking on another degree
that was outside of library science,
I couldn't take advantageof the student discount.
I really could have at the time.
A student is a studentis a student, right?
Yeah, I missed out a couple of years

(22:10):
while I was workingon that ed leadership degree.
That being said, you know,I've kept my membership with ALA
during those yearsand attended conferences,
which has alwaysbeen beneficial to me.
I know we're going to talkabout that a little bit more.
I'm really proud of the timethat I've spent with ALA.
Just a little back history,

(22:30):
ALA is now going to be150 years old next year.
Founded 1876.
It's hard to believethat it's the largest
and the oldest libraryassociation in this country.
We've got to support it,and we've got to help fund it.
And most importantly is that it's gotto move into the future to help

(22:54):
support another wave of librarians.
I think that's a great point to make,
especially with all the challenges
that we're facing rightnow as a profession,
just in the state of the world
and what's going onwith our government
in the United States and the funding
for libraries and things like that.
The American LibraryAssociation is able to leverage

(23:14):
their numbers and their reach
in order to represent us in a way
that we couldn't all do individuallyor at a local scale, right?
I know in my work,because I work for the system,
sometimes something will happen,
and the first thing we'll say is,"What does ILA or ALA say?"
We want to know what positionare we taking on this.

(23:39):
We'll often look tothose two organizations,
so I completely agree with you.
I've had several conversations
with colleaguesand friends that are like,
"I'm done with ALA."
And I come back to them and say,
do you want librariansto have a place to go to
when someone is challengingbooks in your library?

(24:01):
Do you want that?
Then be a member.
Do you care aboutwhat's happening in D.C.?
The Washington office is there.
Do you want that?
Okay, so that's two thingsthat you are down with.
Just rejoin and be a member again.
Well and I think it's reassuringto me as a librarian to know
that someone's gotmy back in a big way.
Exactly.

(24:22):
Someone's going to bat for me,
and I don't have to justdo all the heavy lifting.
Let me tell you,I have not the first idea
how to lobby Congress.
No clue, right.
Right.
I love ALA’s like, “do this now.”
They give you the link,and you just do it.
[chuckles] I love that.
Yeah, all the campaigns.
I will fully admitthat I was a lone wolf

(24:43):
when I was a librarian,
and I did not joina lot of organizations.
Mostly becauseI was too busy doing my job,
and I just kept my head down,and I was like, oh my God,
I can't do one more thing.
And I just want to say, do it.You need to join an organization.
Being a member of these organizations
has enriched not onlymy professional life,

(25:04):
but just my life so much.
It's so important to getconnected and meet people.
As Cyndi said,it's where your people are.
That is very true.
I was going to ask K.C.,
if you don't mind,can you share a little bit about
what your experiencewas like as a student member?
Because I know for me,I joined also ALA and ILA
both when I was a student.

(25:26):
But it’s like I was apprehensive,or intimidated to get
involved as a student because I felt
like I'm just a student member.
Everybody here knows more than me.
What was your experience like?
Did you take advantageof anything as a student,
or did that come a little bit later?
That came much later.
I was more of an observerwhen I was a student member.
I attended the conferences.

(25:46):
I really enjoyeda lot of the, of course,
the presentations from librariansfrom across the country.
That's what I really benefited from.
Then, of course,going on the conference floor
and enjoying gettingall the free stuff.
[laughter]
- Swag, swag, swag.- Also, hearing all the
great speakers and everything.
Those were beneficial to me

(26:07):
because even thoughI was from Chicago,
and I was a memberof Illinois Library Association
for school libraries,and at that time,
Chicago Teacher Library Association,
I still have access to meetingauthors and so forth,
and having great experiences.
I had even moreexperiences through ALA.

(26:29):
That's what I was benefitingfrom at that time.
That's really interesting.
It hasn't been of the last 10 years
that things really have donea shift in my career,
where ALA has changed for me,
as well as another organizationthat has been very supportive
in the work that I've been doing.
How about you, Cyndi?
Do you have any interesting stories
about how you got connected to--

(26:51):
I mean you went from ALA,
working for ALA, to getting involved.
So maybe it seemslike it was a no-brainer.
Do you have any tips,maybe for people
who are trying to figure outhow to get started?
Yeah, you know,
it can be really overwhelming
So many times, like,
you can tell the peoplethat are at ALA conference
for the first time because it's sortof like, "What do I do now?"

(27:14):
Deer in the headlights look.
[laughs]
-Right.-Yes.
There's so many things,so many places to be.
How do you make those decisions?
Obviously, I knewwhere I was going to fall into.
So yeah, it's just visitingdifferent groups,
divisions, programs, the roundtables,

(27:35):
see what's going on and whatexcites you when you see it.
So you mentioned divisions
and roundtablesand I need someone to--
This is something that me,as a student, I was like,
I'm trying to figure out
what's the difference betweena forum and a roundtable,
and a division, and can someonedecode ALA for me on this podcast?
Because I think a lot of people

(27:55):
are confused about where to go.
Maybe for school librarians,
it's a little more obviousbecause AASL brands itself
as the organization or the divisionfor school librarians.
But there are a lot of differentways you can connect
and get involved with ALA, right?
Yeah.
Would anybody wantto talk about any of those,
like the subdivisionsor the roundtables?

(28:18):
I just stepped down with beinga chair of a roundtable.
[laughs] Which roundtable?
EMIERT.
Oh, nice.
Nice.
So the interesting thingis EMIERT is really special to me
because one of the thingsis that EMIERT represents
everything that’s multicultural.
It's Ethnic and MulticulturalInformation Exchange Roundtable.

(28:42):
It is a roundtable.
And it serves as a sourceof providing information,
services, programs, for collections,
for various multicultural resources
for various librariansand library types,
so anything, we do it,
which is supportive.

(29:02):
One of the initiatives thatthey’re working on right now
is to start an Islamic committee,which is greatly needed.
Our Jewish committee is veryestablished, so now we want
to work on an Islamic committeeso we can service
those libraries and librarians
that have those special collections
or working with studentsin that case that need extra support.

(29:26):
That's one example of a roundtable.
There's other types of roundtables.
There's the graphic novelsroundtable, rainbow roundtable.
You name it,
there's a lot of different specialinterest roundtables
that are within ALA.
Then you also moveon to the divisions.
I belong to the AmericanAssociation for School Librarians

(29:47):
because I am a school librarian.
If you were an academic librarian,you would join ACRL,
or if you were a public librarian,you would join PLA.
These are library groups.
that are directly alignedwith your specialty area.
There is a cost differential,

(30:08):
like the cost for my membershipfor AASL is $65 a year.
It includes accessto a quarterly magazine
called Knowledge Quest,as well as a wealth of resources
that includes monthly webinars
that are produced by AASL,as well as toolkits,

(30:31):
resources to help usjust do our jobs every day.
Then we have a conferencethat takes place every two years.
Of course, we have a strong presence
at the annual conference every year.
We have a bank of programmingfor our school librarians.
Like I’m explaining all theprogramming for AASL,

(30:53):
it's the same forthe academic librarians,
the public librarians,also our special librarians.
It goes on and on and on.
That's amazing.
I'm glad you mentionedthe AASL conference
because we are really excited for us,especially in Illinois,
because this yearit's being held in St. Louis.
-Yes.
-Very close to us.-We're hoping that
a lot of our local librarians
are going to be able to attend,whereas maybe

(31:15):
they can't travel farther.
It'll be my first AASL.
I'm so excited.
I can't wait to experience it.
I've been to one other one.
I went to the Tampa one.
I liked it, but I didn't knowa lot of people there yet.
I didn't know a lotof people in AASL yet.
This year, I'm hopingthat I'll know a lot more people
because we're so close to home.
Also, I have to plugthat if you are an Illinois librarian

(31:38):
attending AASL, please reach out
to me or Jessica Silva from RAILS,
because we are going to hosta get-together one night at AASL
for Illinois librarians.
I think, K.C., you can be invited.
You're included since youare a native Illinoisan.
[laughs] You are a native Illinoisan,
so you can come to the meetup.

(31:59):
I think we're going for barbecue.
Oh, nice.
See, that's the point,
is that that's how you get to knowpeople within the association.
I didn't mentionthis at the beginning
because we startedjust talking and chatting,
I am now on the executive board
for the American Library Association.
Oh, wow. Congrats.
I just started my three-year term.

(32:20):
As a result of that,this is a culmination for me
on many levels of justmy work and volunteering,
doing different thingsover the years with ALA.
This is my 27th yearworking in school libraries.
I haven't been working in ALA
for the same length of timeas I mentioned earlier.

(32:41):
But I have been a memberand participating,
and doing some thingsoff and on over the years.
For the most part, I deeply care,
and I want to seethe association move forward.
I don't want to seeanything happen to it,
especially in the day and timesthat we are experiencing of late.

(33:01):
I look at the young people
that are in library schoolright now, and I want to see
this organization be therefor them when they exit.
That's why I want to lendmy voice for the next three years
to make sure that it's here for them.
That's amazing.
Congratulations.
Thank you so muchfor stepping up to lead.
We are all so much better for it.
I really appreciate that.

(33:22):
Cyndi, could you tell usa little bit about forums
and committees at ILA?
I have to tell you a littlefunny because obviously,
I work at the systemand we're all very invested in ILA.
We had an orientationfor being on the committees.
You had the orientation last week,and I think everybody
in our buildingwas in that meeting that day.

(33:42):
[laughter] Oh, that's great.
You have a lot of usserving in various capacities.
That's so great.
Yeah, we're so fortunateto have people from both systems
and really engaged andbringing so much information.
It's just wonderful.
Okay.
Committees and forumsare different things.

(34:04):
Committees are appointedby the incoming president,
and they do the workof the association.
Like public policy or advocacy,which Janette is going to be on.
We have intellectual freedom.
That's me. [laughs]

(34:24):
So all of the work of the associationis done by committees.
Forums are focused on a topic.
We have library trustees,
and we have about 450 or so trustees
that are members of the association.

(34:44):
We have an academic forum, IACRL.
We have young adult,children's services.
I'm blanking all of them,
but we have all of thesedifferent things to talk about.
They're really active.
We have one for newmembers and students.
That's a good wayto bring more people

(35:06):
into the association as well.
Yeah, I have attendedsome of the new member
and student forum eventswhen I was a student.
It's great because there's a lotof how-to-get-a-job sessions
or exposure to different peoplein different career paths.
Especially non-traditionalcareer paths,
and the skills that they had,
and how they got to where they were.

(35:26):
Those are really invaluablesessions for students to attend.
Would you say that the forums for ILA
are more like affinity groups
or similar to the functionof the roundtables for ALA, right?
Yes.
So they’re around a commoninterest or some other commonality
aside from your professional role
or the library that you work in.

(35:46):
Right. And we,
our most recent forumis the retired members.
That's good.
We're still building,but we're getting out there
and getting more people involved,
which is great because people want
to stay connected, even if it's just
paying your dues every year.
It's just a way to be connectedwith your profession.

(36:08):
I know I get a lot of questions,
I can't speak for Leah,but from school librarians
who are retiring, about how to stayinvolved with the profession.
That's a common thing that I hear
because I think it's hardto just walk away.
You've built this network of people.
You're used to beingin the know and busy.
I'm sure they're all enjoyinga lovely retirement

(36:29):
and all their free time,
but it is hard.
You don't think about that sideof it when you're stepping away.
A lot of school librarians retire
and go on to become schoollibrarians at a different school
on a part-time or a paraprofessionalbasis, which is a problem
in Illinois becausesuperintendents are like,

(36:50):
"Yeah, I'll hire this personwho has the professional degree
and the training,but I'll pay them peanuts
and take advantage of them."
We don't want that.
I see so many first retirements,
second retirements,third retirements
in librarianship as a whole,
but especiallyin school librarianship.
I wanted to go back for a minuteto what K.C. said about

(37:10):
the culmination of you servingon the executive board.
The other thing that I want to stress
is the importance of beinga leader in this profession.
I think school librarians tendto say, "Well, I'm not a leader,
I'm just a school librarian,"but you have to be a leader.
You have to be out there.
You have to be promotingthe profession.

(37:30):
You have to be showingthat you are the expert,
that your school relies on you.
One way to do that is to lead
in one of these organizationsbecause I just happen to serve
on the board of anotherassociation in our state,
the Association of IllinoisSchool Library Educators.
At the end of my first yearon that board, they're like,

(37:51):
"Would you like us to acknowledge
to your district that you have servedin this capacity for a year?"
I didn't need it because I work
for an organizationthat obviously appreciates
my expertise and valuesmy time spent there.
But I’m like, every schoollibrarian should say
yes to that question.
You need your districtadministrators to know

(38:12):
that you are a valued leader
in your profession and in your state,and in the national arena.
I do want to stress, though, too,
that there's different ways to lead.
It's not just your traditionalpicture of leadership.
If you are in your school library,
managing and running that,that is leadership.
So it doesn't have to be this,

(38:34):
like, I ran for an office and I waselected the president or whatever.
Leadership takes various forms.
Even just being on a committee.
I would honestly putmembership on your resume
because there are professionalstandards and norms,
and it’s important that peopleknow that you know that.
I have something to say about that.
They don't understand.

(38:55):
-They really don't.-They don't.
I can use this example.
ALA gives the executiveboard members business cards.
So I took a picture of mybusiness card and I uploaded it,
and sent it to my superintendentand some people underneath him,
all the way down to my principal.
I said, okay, letting you know,
to be transparent, because they know

(39:17):
that I speak out a loton a national level,
that I am now on the executive board
with the AmericanLibrary Association,
but my focus and commitmentwill always be first
to the kids of this districtand my school,
because I do a lotof district initiatives first.
So I would say less thana quarter responded.

(39:38):
Interesting.
They read it.
They read it, but theydidn't know how to respond
or how to react becausethey don't understand it.
They don't understandthe hierarchy or what leadership
in library science looks like.
That's really what it looks like,really what it is.
So instead of taking the attitude of,oh, they don't care,

(39:59):
they didn't read the email.
No, they read it.
You still send the email.
Even though youdidn't get a response,
you still send it becausethey need to know.
Because, you know,
I go back to 2020, when wewere going through COVID,
and because we weren'tin a brick-and-mortar,
they didn't think that schoollibrarians were necessary.

(40:23):
They were membersof my superintendent's team
that were like, "We can find
a way to let theselibrarians go finally,
and then we can use that money to pay
their salaries to do this,that, and another,
and use that moneyto pay their salaries
to do something else in the budget,"
probably buy another program.

(40:45):
God forbid that it did not happen
that way, and we had to fight back.
They learned the hard way that
there were leadersall within all of us.
Because we rounded up people
and resourcesthat they never heard of.
They never heard of EveryLibrary
and John Chrastka, and didn't realize

(41:07):
that EveryLibrary is apowerhouse when it comes
to helping, especiallyschool libraries, when it deals
with the politicsof school librarianship,
and really workingwith local politicians.
Because we got our issueon the ballot.
Because ironically, 2020,

(41:28):
that was the yearit was a lot of elections.
John recognized that,and so he went into full attack mode
because this was election season,and this is what he does,
and his team do very well,which is they know
how to handle the politicsside of defending libraries,

(41:50):
where this is not our specialty.
This is an area where ALA,on the school library side,
they really don't get too deep in
because it deals withunions and everything.
This is a touchy area.
This is a real touchy area.
It was helpful thatwe had that support
from EveryLibrary to help us.

(42:12):
We had help from ALAand EveryLibrary,
and that's why we won that fight.
Sometimes you're forcedinto positions of leadership
because things are happeningthat you don't like,
and you're like,somebody should do something,
and then you're like,well, I'm somebody.
I think that these organizations giveyou a lot of support in doing that.
I think it's important nowwith just ALA, period.

(42:36):
ALA has got to, and they'redoing it now anyway,
team up with otherorganizations, ACLU.
There's a lot of organizations
that are supportingthis fight when it deals
with intellectual freedom.
We can't do it all by ourselves.

(42:56):
We can't.
When the powers that bethat are fighting against us,
they see that, "Oh, not only is ALA
fighting against us, we have ACLU.
We also have PEN America.
We also have thisorganization, this one."
They start seeingmultiple organizations

(43:16):
that are saying the same thing.
We're in disagreementto what you're saying,
and we're going to fight against you.
It does send an indelible message
back to that group of saying,wait a minute,
maybe we need to rethinkwhat we're saying about
this issue of intellectual freedom,or book banning,
or whatever the issue is.

(43:38):
We need to rethinkthis and maybe come
to a more sensible conclusion.
Yeah.
And to your point about partneringwith outside organizations,
I think it's important.
When Amanda Jones released her book,I had the privilege to hear
her speak a coupledifferent times about her battle

(43:58):
and what she'd been going through.
She made a great pointthat really resonated with me,
and that I think about often,
is that we are notgood at advertising
librarianship to peopleoutside of libraries.
We speak a language that we know,and we can tell
each other all the time how valuable
we are and all the great workwe're doing, but we've got to get

(44:19):
better at having the greaterpopulation understand
those values and how they fitinto that picture.
I think those other organizationsare part of the key to doing that.
You get involved with people
who are used to connectingwith social issues,
and they can connect librarianship
to those communitiesand what's happening in the world,

(44:39):
which is really important.
I agree with that 100%.
I have a heavy TikTok presence.
One of the things that I make a pointof doing is going into areas
where librarians aren't,school librarians aren't.
And when I'm introduced,
and sometimes they're inpolitical areas in TikTok,

(45:02):
-very much so.-very interesting in itself.
And you’re like,this is a school librarian?
You can hear it in their voice
when they're introducingme and everything.
Then when I start talking about kids,
and that's always a commonplace area
with everyone, which is children.
Then I start talkingabout the rights of kids
and how our students do not needto have any type of barriers

(45:27):
in reading because our kidsgenerally are not reading as much
as they should because they have
all these competing distractions.
Case in point, the cell phone and--
TikTok.
Your pocket computer.
Exactly, because I gota 13-year-old nephew
around here that I'm fightingwith all the time.
He will read, but it's almost

(45:50):
like strangulation to get him to
get the doggone phoneout of his hand.
So we have to make an effort.
It's comfortable to stayaround our librarian peers,
but it's also steppingout of our comfort level
to be around othersthat are not like us and to hold
our own and then educatepeople about what we do.

(46:12):
That is just as importantas anything I can say today
on this podcast is that,how important it is to educate
the general public aboutlibrarianship because people
have formed their ownopinion about us.
I do not look like Aunt Bee’s librarian.
I have dreadlocksand tattoos and I curse.

(46:33):
So for crying out loud,I am not your traditional librarian.
Yes, the old,“Oh, it must be so nice
to be in a quiet roomwhere you can read all day."
[laughs]
I had a new principal, two years ago,
she was new.
She came into my makerspace,
and her eyes grew big as saucers.
The noise level was deafening.

(46:54):
She was like, "What the heck?"
She was thinking it's a library,they should be quiet.
The makerspace isan extension of the library,
but they were working.
They were arguing at the time
because they were tryingto figure out how to get
something to work in the makerspace.
They were really arguing that day.
I had to prove to herthat gone are the days of,

(47:15):
"Shh, it's got to be totally quiet in here."
These kids can sit aroundeach other and read silently
with a whole lot of noisegoing on, and it can happen.
This is a loudworkspace for all kids.
My dad was an educator,and he used to say
learning is noisy business.
I always said the louder the noise,the higher the engagement.

(47:39):
I'm a very active learner.
You want me to read something,sure, but I'm way
more likely to rememberit if I engage
with it in a way that's tactile.
I think a lot of kidsare that way, too.
That's why libraries are so great.
You have things like makerspacesand learning centers,
and you have that immersiveexperience in your learning
where you can connectit to the literature,

(48:00):
but you can also connectit to just tools, technology.
All the other thingsthat libraries provide.
It's like that battle we fight about,
you're talking about the pandemic,
when a lot of schoollibrarians were replaced with,
if they can just Google it, well,
Google is not thesame as a librarian.
They're not going to teachthem the same skills.
You cannot replaceus with computers.

(48:22):
We're irreplaceable.
That's right.
I do want to say aboutconnecting with other organizations.
Cyndi is aware of this,and Janette is, but in Illinois,
there is no enforced requirementto have a school librarian
in a school, and we'retrying to change that.

(48:43):
The school librarianorganization that I belong
to is very much advocating.
The first thing that they did
was to reach outto our organizations,
like ILA and the two systemsand the state library
and other organizations to say,when we send an advocacy email,
will you just reply to it and say

(49:05):
this organization supports this?
That has really been effective.
Those different organizations,when somebody gets
an email sayingyou're making a bad choice,
and then three other organizations,
they may not have heard of one,
but they've heard of some of them.
I think it's very goodthat we have the support

(49:26):
of all those organizations saying,yes, we agree with this.
You should be doing this.
Yeah, and we are so fortunatein Illinois in so many ways.
I have heard from other states
where everybody is separateand doesn't work together.
I love the waythat we all work together.

(49:49):
We have everybody in Illinois.
All of the librarytypes are together.
We come together.
We share information.
We put statements out together.
I love so much what we have.
That collaboration is amazing.
Yes.
Yeah, not to feel like you're alone
because I thinkthere's a lot of that.

(50:10):
I've heard from schoollibrarians who will say,
"Oh, ALA isn't going to help me.
I'm a school librarian."
I was like, well,there's a whole division
for school librarians.
There is. Yes.
That's literally what they do
is support school librarians.
There's alwayssomeone to reach out to.
Don't ever feel like you're alone
in your struggle or whateveryou're trying to achieve.
Just the resource sharing alone--

(50:31):
A lot of peoplecan do really great work,
but maybe they strugglewith the idea,
coming up with how to do it.
If other people are willing to share
the work that they're doing,maybe you can take
someone else's idea and mold it
into somethingthat works for your school,
which is really, really helpful.
I think about Amanda Jones,Martha Hickson,
Elissa Malespina.

(50:53):
When they were havingall these problems
with their communitiesor school districts,
ALA came in and helped them.
They came in and gave themguidance and supported them.
That's a great point.
I think their stateorganization did too.
Yes.
And in Malespina, I believein her case, she lost her position.

(51:17):
They really came in and gaveher the support that was needed.
I think sometimes when peoplemake comments like that,
they may not know about the support
or the depths of the supportthat the organization,
like an ALA, canprovide to its members.
But at the same time,

(51:38):
it's that if you areexperiencing problems
and you're having these problemsand you are a member,
you have a right to reach out to ALA
and say, I'm having a problem.
You can't sit backand not say anything.
You got to let somebody know,I'm experiencing a problem.
It goes both ways.
It is hard, though,for people to take advantage

(52:00):
of those resources, though,
to step up or speak upand ask for help sometimes.
Do you have any advice for anybody
who might be a littlemore timid about
asking for help when they need it?
Okay, so, if this person is timid,then I suggest that they go
through their stateorganization and maybe
through their state representative,
their AASL representative,or state president.

(52:22):
They can be the liaisonto ALA to help support them.
I don't know.
I’m just a really big--
I'm not going to be timidwhen it comes to my job.
I'm just not going to allow somebody
to come in and takeit or just write it away
with a stroke of a pen.
I'm going to fight for it.
I've met plenty of librarians,school librarians in particular,

(52:45):
some of them have this trait.
I've had to admonish them and said,
listen, at some pointin this equation,
you're going to haveto make some changes.
This is a hard conversationI've had with some librarians
where I've walked awayfrom the conversation,
and I know behind my back,
they say, "Who the helldoes she think she is?"

(53:07):
But let’s just be real about this.
It's easy to complain.
But at the end of the day,it's like you got to learn
how to fight for some things in life.
And if there's one thingyou're going to have to learn
how to fight for, it’s your jobthat you worked for.
You took time to go back to school
and get your degreein library information science.

(53:29):
That was a lot of time spentto read 125 books and report on them
for kiddie lit and to learnall that stuff for cataloging.
And you’re just going to havesomebody write it away
with a stroke of a pen?
Come on, let's thinkabout that for a minute.
No, you're just goingto let somebody do this
and you're not going to say anything,
but you’re going to sitback and complain?

(53:50):
Come on, we're better than this.
We're better.
The late Karen Lewis,
who was the presidentof the Chicago Teachers Union,
said this one time to me.
She said, "If you don't speakup for school librarians here
in Chicago, nobody elsewill because nobody else cares.
You have to show that you care about

(54:12):
your organization, your work group.
You have to showthat you care enough."
And she’s right.
-That's a great point.-She was right.
You have to show that you care.
When people see that you care
and you genuinely careabout the kids, because see,
the organization's going to flip it.
“Oh, they're just speaking upbecause they want their job.”
When you look at it, at the endof the day, the kids lose out.

(54:35):
You got a groupof non-reading children
that can't pass a standardized test.
We all know that's the nameof the game these days
in school education,standardized tests.
We all know that there's studiesthat date back to the '60s about
the correlation betweenschool libraries
and reading achievement.
Yeah that's not somethingthat's debated, right?

(54:56):
-Everybody accepts that as fact.-It's a fact.
There's plenty of studies,PhD studies since the '60s.
Come on now, let's givethis some deep thought.
All of those peoplewho are a little bit timid
about speaking out, I think
that's where these organizationscan really help you,
because it does helpto have somebody behind you.

(55:17):
Even if you're just somebodywho's caught up
in the emotion of it, right?
Losing your jobis an emotional thing.
That's hard. It's rejection.
You're grieving the lossof something.
You might feellike you're floundering
in a way that you don't knowhow to proceed.
So even if you want to get started,
sometimes you don't know where to start.
I think that's a great point.

(55:37):
Here's where you start.
And I’ve heard this too,
well, I feel like I'm goingto be retaliated against.
Okay, retaliation or you'regoing to lose your job.
Let's think this through.
But also, isn't that where your unioncan also help you a bit, right?
There's people who can stepup and help protect you.
And I’ve heard this,
“the union doesn't do anything for me.”

(55:58):
Hello, don't you pay dues?
This is part of your membership.
They work for you.
I'm just saying.
The one last thing I wantto ask you before we move
into our final segment isyou're both leaders in our field.
We talk a lot about schoollibrarians developing those skills.
We already talked about it a littlebit earlier in this episode.

(56:19):
So I’m wondering, do you haveany final words of advice
or recommendations,encouragement for school librarians
who are lookingto develop leadership skills?
Is it get involved in a training?
Is it read a book?
Whatever advice you might have.
I don't think you can learn
how to be a leaderfrom reading a book.
What words of advice might you have?

(56:39):
I would say get involved.
Just start out by getting involved.
That's my two cents on that.
[laughs]
Yeah, absolutely.
Connecting.
In Illinois, we're fortunateto have AISLE, which is very strong.
Find your association and join.
Wait a while beforeyou're ready to reach out.

(57:01):
Get engaged.
Even if you just jointo be on the forums,
you don't have to joina committee right away.
You don't have to takea leadership role right away.
But at least the other big thingthat these organizations
do is they will keep you informed.
I agree to everythingthat has been said so far.

(57:23):
Committee work is reallyimportant because, really,
that's where you can meetyour strong leaders.
And I strongly recommend
that when you'rearound strong leaders,
just close your mouth and listen.
That’s a great piece of advice.
Strong leaders will mess up.
They'll misstep.
And don’t ridicule themfor that because they're human.

(57:45):
They'll make mistakes.
A good leader will make a mistake.
Understand that.
So be easy.
Be forgiving.
Be understanding whenthey do make a mistake.
But look at the bigger picture,
they have a skillset that is admirable,
that you would want tolearn from and also possess.

(58:06):
Understand that sometimespeople do make mistakes.
The last thing I will sayis that don't be hesitant
to ask someone if they wouldn't mind
mentoring you if they have the time.
That's the thing.
Maybe do a check-in,or just, do you mind
if I have a 10-minute Zoomcall, 15-minute Zoom call

(58:30):
with you to talk about one issue,
just to get your viewpoint about it?
To see where your mindis on this particular topic.
It could be somethingthat's in the news
or something that's a prevalenttopic in library information science
that is really impactingschool librarians.
That's what I would say.
That mentor-menteerelationship is important.

(58:52):
I've heard a numberof people talk about
how important and integralthat has been into their own success
in their careersas school librarians.
That's a great piece of advice.
And then follow people online.
That's a big one. Yep.
Your personal learning network.
Build and grow your personallearning network.
The school librarians have left

(59:12):
Twitter for the most part,and they're now on Bluesky.
So you can get on Blueskyand search for them.
There are some that are on Threads,
but they're more so on Bluesky.
Then there is a group that'son Instagram and also on TikTok.
I strongly recommendthat you follow them.

(59:35):
A lot of the leaders,they do post a lot,
and they're sharing some things
that they're experiencing,and that's how you can learn.
Absolutely. I love Bluesky,too, as a platform.
That communitythere has been really great
and very welcoming.
I would not hesitateto join that if you're someone
who's usually pretty reluctantto get involved on social media.
It's been, so far,knock on all the wood,

(59:57):
not a super toxic platform.
So that’s been great.
Some of the school librarians,it still baffles me to this day.
I don't do social media.
I'm like, girl, if you don't stop,--
You're missing out on half of thestuff that you need to know. Sadly.
You don't have to post.

(01:00:18):
You can get an account,just put two or three posts up,
and then you can justfollow people and read.
That's all you got to do.
And see John Scalzi talkabout his cat all the time.
That's always great.
I just want to reiterate,people who know me
through workwill find this surprising,

(01:00:38):
but I am truly an introvert.
If you know me, though,she never shuts up.
How can she be an introvert?
But I was very reluctant to joina lot of these committees.
Then I got the job that I have now,
and they're like,"Well, you need to do this,
you need to do this."
I cannot tell you the differenceit's made to my life.
Just so many greatpeople that I've met,

(01:01:00):
and so I don’t feel like--
when you're the school librarian
with your head downdoing the job, and it feels
like nobody understands you,just that community.
Even if you never stepup to a leadership position,
just that community of someplaceyou can go and be like,
these people get what it is liketo be a school librarian.

(01:01:23):
Because English teachershave other English teachers
and social studies teachers,and even the PE teacher
is usually a group of people.
There was just me.
I got adopted in my schoolby the exploratory team,
so I was with the Spanish teacher
and the art teacherand the music teachers.
So, I was adopted.
You won't always get adoptedby groups in your school,

(01:01:45):
so you may have to findyour own group.
I urge you to do it.
You know what I do?
This can go if you're in a district
with a lot of librarians,or if you are not.
You can find another librarian
that has, even from another district,
that has a schedulethat's similar to yours.
Have a Google Meet relationship,

(01:02:06):
and you could call each other
just like you would calleach other on the phone.
Even though I don't have a librarian
or an aide in my schoolthat works with me,
if I'm feeling a certainkind of way about
something that's happened,I call Ebony in a minute,
and I know she'll pick up.
I'm like, girl, let me tellyou what just happened here.

(01:02:29):
Because sometimesyou need that person to talk
with right then and there.
Talk me down from this ledge.
Yeah, talk me down from the ledge.
You can use Google Meet
and have a conversationwith this person.
You're not alone.
You don't have anyone physicallythere in the building with you,
but you can talk.

(01:02:49):
The technology givesus the person to talk to.
If you don't want to do Google Meet,
you can talk to themthrough FaceTime,
or you can talk to themjust on the cell phone.
Don't feel like you're alone.
There's someone you can talk to,for crying out loud.
Absolutely.
That's a great message.
That is also a good segueinto the last segment we have,

(01:03:10):
which we like to call shelf care.
This is where we acknowledge
that doing the workof librarianship is hard.
We all have to takecare of ourselves.
I just wanted to hearfrom the two of you
what you're doing to take care
of yourselves when thingsget a little tough.
So to quote Bill Veeck,there are only two seasons,
winter and baseball.

(01:03:30):
[laughter]
We are currently in baseball,
which is what I can go to andwatch a game and be relaxed.
Win or lose, I don't care.
I just want to watch baseball,and I feel better.
That's amazing. I love that.
That's how I feel about hockey.
In our house, we have three seasons,
baseball, hockey,and everything else.

(01:03:53):
I'm in the seasonof telling people no,
not saying yes to a lot of things.
I'm finding a lot of peace in that.
I do a lot of crafting at home,making things,
and also doing, not clothing sewing,
craft sewing,which is very different.

(01:04:14):
If you're a sewer, you know craft sewing.
That brings a lot ofhappiness and peace to me
because I need the escape.
I do a lot of crafting becauseI need something to force
my brain to stopthinking about whatever
it is, I have to thinkabout something else.
Do either of you have anythingyou'd like to promote?

(01:04:34):
K.C., you mentioned a TikTok.
You can find me, @bosslibrarian,on TikTok and Bluesky.
That's where I have public accounts,
and I do a lot of posting,and you can follow me there.
How about you, Cyndi?
Anything you would liketo promote or share?
Not anything big coming up,is there, Cyndi?
We have this conference coming up soon.

(01:04:56):
It's kind of a thing.
Yes, and I think it's the weekafter the AISLE conference,
so we're going to have two.
It's going to be great.
And AASL falls in there, too,so that is going to be--
That's right.
It's like a giant school libraryconference sandwich, is what it is.
Yes, it is.
The AISLE conference,
and then the ILAAnnual Conference

(01:05:18):
is the 14th through 16th,and then that runs right
into the kickofffor AASL in St. Louis.
I know there's a numberof us who are driving
from Chicago to St. Louison that Thursday to take
advantage, so it's goingto be a fun time.
Well, thank you again, both of you,
for joining us and for sharingall your insight and information.
I really appreciate it.

(01:05:38):
It's been great talking with you.
To our listeners,thanks for joining us,
and let us knowif you have any questions
or topic ideas that you'd like usto cover on future episodes.
As always, you can leaveus a voicemail on our hotline,
which is 630-734-5015.
Until next time,stay legit and don't quit.

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