December 9, 2025 • 23 mins
Carnival didn’t just arrive on Eastern Parkway; people fought for it, paid for it, and sometimes lost careers over it. I sit down with Herman Hall, publisher of Everybody’s Magazine and longtime promoter to map how Caribbean culture took root in New York and how a small community magazine became a historical record. From a 1978 Bob Marley cover that sold out twice to the tumult of the Grenada revolution and Michael Manley’s labor politics, Herman walks us through the moments that turned diaspora headlines into global stories.
We dig into the migration from Harlem to Brooklyn, the resistance to bringing Carnival to the museum grounds, and the quiet pioneers who made Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights home decades earlier. Herman explains why he ran publishing and promotion in tandem, taking Oliver Samuels across boroughs and managing calypso legend Shadow. The theme is consistent: build platforms that pay artists, grow audiences, and keep Caribbean voices in the spotlight.
As the media landscape shifts, Herman shares a pragmatic view: print won’t die, but it won’t be the same. He’s preserving a vast archive - photos, interviews, and manuscripts. In addition, he is writing new books tracing Caribbean contributions from Alexander Hamilton and Claude McKay to Shirley Chisholm and Colin Powell.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello everyone, and welcome to this special series
brought to you by Carry OnFriends in partnership with
Where It's At Magazine.
And my guest today is Mr.
Herman Hall, the founder andpublisher of Everybody's
Magazine, the longest-runningCaribbean-American publication.
And in addition to being apublisher, Herman is a
(00:21):
politician.
He is a staller in ourcommunity.
And I'm excited to talk to himpersonally.
Herman has planted the seeds towhat has launched Carry On
Friends.
And I'm excited for you to getto learn to know more about him
and where Caribbean media iscoming from and his thoughts
about where we're going.
So, Herman, welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Well, thank you for inviting me.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Thank you for being here.
So, um, a little bit ofbackstory.
I first met you when I was ayoung woman in 2006.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
You're a studio.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Yes, thank you.
And I wanted to buy tickets forthe Oliver play, one of many
Oliver plays.
But before we get into how youare even doing the promotion for
Oliver plays, let's go back towhat was the reason why you
started everybody's back in1977, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Yeah, 1977, that's right.
Yeah, so talk to me about that.
Well, essentially, I was amember of the Western American
Day Carnival Association.
And that is the people who putout the Carnival on Labor Day.
And way back in the early 70s,the Carnival was not well known.
(01:37):
We were not even yet on EasternParkway in terms of the parade.
We had to have the events in thepark, in Prospect Park.
And then I was the youngest, theorganizers of the carnival then
were guys working in the subway,New York City Transit Authority.
Others had basically manierjobs.
(01:57):
A couple of their wives werenacci-days and so forth.
And I just happened to be youngand then in my mid-twenties,
going to Brooklyn College, and Ijoined them.
And then I became everything.
I was the public relationsperson.
So I was doing, we had an annualcarnival journal, we called it
(02:20):
in those days.
And I think they still have itevery Labor Day Carnival
Journal.
I think so.
So I got involved in that.
And then in 1976, for the 200thanniversary of the United
States, what we call thebicentennial, the federal
government had reached out tothe West Indian American Day
(02:42):
Carnival Association for us topromote anything Caribbean
during the 200 years, theCaribbean relationship or the
West Indian relationship withthe United States for 200 years.
So I produced theCaribbean-American Carnival
Journal to coincide with theBicentennial.
(03:05):
But at the same time, I also puton my own booklet because I
always love history.
And as a matter of fact, when Igraduated from Brooklyn College,
it was my intention to go toColumbia University to do my
graduate work in journalism.
So it kind of been with me.
So having done the Caribbean,the West Indian Carnival
(03:28):
Journal, the BicentennialJournal, and then my own little
booklet, I thought that therewas a market.
So I decided to do it.
Moreover, at that particulartime in the 70s, late 60s, early
70s, 80s, the census, consensusthen was that the premier
(03:49):
magazines, Ebony and Jet, theywere not covering
Caribbean-American activities oreven Caribbean activities once
in a blue moon.
So that was the criticism.
So I decided to createeverybody's magazine to
encompass the entireEnglish-speaking Caribbean.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Wonderful.
This is why I wanted to havethis conversation because I've
known some of these stories,these tidbits, because you've
shared them with me over theyears.
So I'm really glad that we'reletting viewers in on some of
this history.
Now, one of the things you'vealways said to me was, you know,
no one remembers Brooklyn beforeBrooklyn became Caribbean.
(04:28):
You used to tell me EasternParkway used to be Lily White.
So talk to me a little bit for,because most kids now, most of
us now know Brooklyn for beingthis hub of Caribbean culture.
What was Brooklyn back then?
What was Brooklyn in the way youwere you're telling me it wasn't
as we know it now?
SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
Well, well, in terms of the carnival, uh, we will
leave that for uh maybe inanother minute.
But when I arrived in thiscountry in 1967, the the
migration from Harlem toBrooklyn among Westinians had
already started.
So I think the migration fromHarlem to Brooklyn, Westinian
(05:11):
style already started maybe inthe early 50s.
But prior to that, when it wasnot plains in the 20s and 30s,
immigrants from Jamaica,Barbados, Grenada, those places,
Harlem was where you went.
This is why, this is whereMarcus Garvey, you know, this is
(05:32):
where Malcolm X mother, everyoneleave, Claude McKee.
But then the exodus of Brooklynbegan sometime in the 50s.
So when I arrived here in 67,all we are was still whites.
And Carlos Lizama, this is allwe like to use the word, Lily
(05:52):
Whites.
I took it from Carlos Lizama,who is the one who introduced
Carnival, not to Brooklyn, butto Eastern Parkway.
The carnival really came fromHarlem, and it was a man named
Rufus Gring who actually went toprison for staging a carnival
with her to Pomet.
But it was Carlos Lizama whoreally developed it.
(06:13):
So when Carlos decided to go tothe Brooklyn Museum to get
Eastern Parkway as a paradeground, as the community, it was
all white, you know, and soforth, were totally opposed to
it.
As a matter of fact, the ladywho was in charge of the
Brooklyn Museum, when shedecided to give us the Brooklyn
(06:34):
Museum grounds to stage what isin all those shows at the back
of the museum every Labor Dayweekend, she was fired.
She lost the job.
Well, of course, she passedmany, many years ago.
So, but however, going back now,in the 30s and 40s, there was a
sprinkling of Caribbean peopleactually living in Brooklyn.
(06:58):
He's not everyone who arrived onthe boat went to Harlem.
So one of the pioneers inCalypso, Gerald Clarke, for
example, this is the man who wasthe premier.
He had the Calypso ban in the40s and 50s.
If you were to look at anyCalypso in the 40s and 50s, you
will see it marked Gerald Clark.
(07:20):
Then he lived in Bedstay.
Then Thompson, whose grandsonwill be New York City, not
public advocate, but he would bethe controller.
And he ran right for mayor.
His parents, as a matter offact, Bill still owns the
property of his grandparents inBertstay.
(07:41):
So coming back, you can say inthe 40s and 50s, you did have a
certain amount of Caribbeanpeople beginning to actually
settle.
But these were Caribbean peoplewho had a certain amount of um,
maybe they could have beenslightly middle class.
Gerald Twak was a fake musician.
There was um Baker from umNevis, Montstrapped, and he was
(08:06):
the first black in the New YorkState um in the Senate, in the
New York State Senate, and hetoo was from one of the smaller
islands.
But I think the rush to Brooklynen masse, it really began maybe
in the 60s.
SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Wow.
So in talking to you, we'velearned some carnival history,
and we probably have to do thatanother time.
That people went to jail toactually Wellgoring, only and
and someone lost a job.
Someone went to jail and someonelost a job for putting on like
the early iteration.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
The white video at the Brooklyn Museum grounds,
yes.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Now let's go back to the magazine.
So while uh while I wasvolunteering, working with you
on the magazine those four yearsuntil I got married, um, there
were so many iconic photographsthat the magazine had throughout
the years.
And you've told me stories ofAvery Fisher Hall when the
magazine had its annual gala.
(09:06):
So when we think of everybody'smagazine, what is the magazine
cover or what's the issue thatpeople most recognize, talk
about, or remember?
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Well, I think it would have to be Bob Marley.
Yeah, there's no question aboutit.
Um, our first major issue, eventhough the magazine started
in '77, we had Bob on the coverin 78.
And in those days we wereprinting 4,000.
And I remember um we had therewas a company, Latin American
(09:41):
News Agency.
They were the distributors ofthe Gleener, the Jamaica
Gleaner, and they took me onalso to distribute the magazine.
And within two weeks, the 4,000were sold.
And then we had to print another4,000.
And that was when Bob performedat Madison Square Garden.
That was his first performance.
(10:02):
His first, and then he wassitting at the Firewood
performance there.
So it was um, I always have tosay Bob Marley, but then we
started in the sem in the late77.
But the Caribbean, early 80s,beginning in 79, was on fire.
You had the first coup d'etat inthe English-speaking Caribbean
(10:23):
when Maurice Bishop overthrew agame.
So that was no longer a grenaderstory, it was a worldwide
Caribbean event.
So anything with Maurice Bishopon the cover would have been
selling, iconic cover.
Then you had at the same time,you had Michael Manley.
Yes.
(10:43):
Okay, who the America did notcare about, but was really
working for the working class inJamaica.
So anything on Michael Manley,Maurice Bishop, you know, Bob
Molly, those covers, nobody wasasking, well, this is a Barbados
magazine or Grenadian magazine.
(11:06):
Everybody from every island werepurchasing those um issues
because of the covers.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
And your edition last year to coincide with the
Grenadas um anniversary, youshared the story of getting
those exclusive interviews withum Gary when he was in the hotel
and um some of yourconversations with Maurice
Bishop.
So I'll make sure that I'll putthe link to that so people can
get that issue and read some ofthat um interview and
(11:35):
conversations, which I foundvery enlightening.
So moving a little bit ahead,you now are promoting the Oliver
Samuels plays, which now has adifferent type of audience.
Talk to me about how youtransitioned into that space.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, well, we never transitioned.
The boat, the board were runningconcurrently.
Yeah.
Well, again, getting funding forany magazine used to be very
difficult.
If you read the autobiography ofJohnson, who founded Every, he
would tell you all of thosestories.
So getting funding for uhespecially a Caribbean
(12:12):
publication would have beenvery, very difficult.
So I and then I thought byhaving appealing to a younger
audience uh and somebody whowill embrace the Caribbean would
bring readers and subscribersand supporters and advertisers
to the magazine.
So we had Calypsonians, um,people came to see.
(12:37):
But then Nolan Patterson'sparents um who worked for the
magazine, even his status goingbasically you can even say
kindergarten, you know, until hegraduated with his master's
degree.
So his parents who told himabout this, Oliver Samuel.
And when I reached out toOliver, um we started in 1990.
(13:01):
And at that particular time, Iwould have been one of the first
promoters who treated Oliver inan honest manner.
You mean because in those days,if you have a show and you're a
promoter, you have a show andyou didn't make money, people
didn't come to the show, thepoor always wouldn't get paid.
(13:23):
But Oliver, so I treated Oliverdifferent.
And then we started, and thenpeople up to today associate me
with Oliver.
So we started in 1990.
We did Brooklyn College.
Then when I told Oliver I wasgoing to take him to the Bronx,
he was crying blood.
Because he said, listen, I wentto Lehman College, where I think
(13:48):
it was Kingston Boys, one ofthose Jamaican organizers, they
all failed.
And I said, No, and believe youme, we will succeed.
So then we went to the Bronx,Queens, York College, then
Boston, Bridgeport, Hartford,Maryland, Washington, and so
forth.
(14:09):
But in the meantime, we alsowere doing um big concerts, um,
especially in Calypso.
Right.
I don't know if you were withthe magazine when we did the
world Calypso Monarch.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
No, I wasn't, but I was with the the magazine when
you did the Shadow show inBrooklyn College.
SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
Right.
Well, I well, you've demanded weshould we uh managed Shadow.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Yeah, I was Shadow's manager from 1975 or 76 until he
passed.
Yeah.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
Love this history.
I am so excited.
The world Calypso Monop wasmassive.
Uh actually, the people who didthe videoing, they videoed Bob
Marley's last concert.
So it was a big um company.
They used to shoot for Channel13.
It was massive.
The first prize was 20,000 USdollars.
Oh, that's I mean, in those dayswe had big we had big sponsors.
(14:59):
Those days are Finnish.
But um we had a Calypsoan fromGermany, white Californians.
We had a Californian fromJamaica, um, who had um he had
um he had some very humoroustunes, um, one of Jamaica's top
Californians at that time.
(15:20):
Um, and then we had we hadrepresentatives from all the
islands, Virgin Islands, um,Antigua, and so forth.
And Trogdos, um, the Californianwho went on to earn his PhD, not
an honorary PhD, but uh alegitimate PhD, he he won God
the$20,000.
And it was on pay-per-view.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Wonderful.
So where are we today witheverybody's magazine and all the
different ventures?
I'm I know from working with youthat the media has media has
shrunk, not just for blackmedia, but especially Caribbean
media.
So where are we today witheverybody's and everything that
you're working with?
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Well, where we are today is really facing reality.
Um, number one, the technologyhas changed.
Print will never die, but printwill never be the same.
It's like saying um jazz, whenrock and roll came about, um,
people were saying when thetelevision came, people will say
(16:23):
the movie industry will die, orwhen rock and roll or those sort
of music came along, people sayjazz will die, but jazz is still
here.
Those things will never die.
Same thing with print, but printwill never be what it is.
So facing that reality andgiving my age right now, I mean,
um, it's it's in the sense thatI'm gradually phasing out, but
(16:49):
even though I'm phasing out, wehave a lot of work there.
Um, Yale University, forexample, is interested in the
magazine's um portfolios,photos, articles, manuscripts,
but they all have to becataloged first.
So I think in that respect, butI have basically not doing shows
(17:11):
anymore.
Because shows is for a youngergeneration.
Shows when you're a promoter,producer, it's very, very
nerve-breaking.
You're wondering, you are theperson who is spending the
money, will you get back themoney?
Who is going to say you didn'tpay them?
It's very nerve-wracking.
So it's for a youngergeneration.
But I have done two books andI'm writing two books presently.
(17:35):
So this is how I hope to end it.
One of the books um should havebeen out since last year.
It is from Alexander Hamilton toKamala Harris.
And the book was should havebeen out.
Had you had Kamala Harris wonthe election, I would have sped
it up.
But that book from AlexanderHamilton to Kamala Harris is
(17:58):
going to be transcultural,transnational.
Anyone will be able to read it.
I hope President Trump will wantto read it because it will be
telling you about thecontributions of Caribbean
nationals going back to the 18thcentury.
You see, most people still don'trealize, well, thank goodness of
(18:21):
Hamilton the play.
And now President Trump is umwith his um the law where he has
enforced the 80th, the 1798 lawabout um extraditing nationals
and so forth.
That was created by Hamilton toa certain extent.
So the book gives you ClaudeMcKay, the great Jamaican poet.
(18:45):
Um we have people like one ofthe founders of Carver Savings
Bank was Jamaican.
Then you have Malcolm X's mom,she came from Grenada.
The first black to captain, thefirst black captain in the
United States Merchant Marinewas from St.
(19:06):
Vincent.
The first black person to hold ahigh selected office in New York
City was from St.
Lucia.
He was the first black person tobecome borough president.
And um and so forth.
So there's a lot people didn'tknow.
Um the other day I was lookingat um one of the channels and
(19:27):
they were talking about GeorgeConstant Baker Motley.
And when you speak to peopletoday, they ask, who is the they
see her as 100% AfricanAmerican?
There's no wrong, there'snothing wrong with that.
But she was born, yes, inConnecticut.
Her parents were from Nevis.
George Marty Constant BaconMartley was, she has about a
(19:50):
million force.
The first black woman appearedin New York City to become
borough president of anyborough.
The first black woman to becomea Senior judge.
She was Martin Luther King'slawyer.
Okay.
So these are the sort of storiesthat we either don't know or we
(20:10):
take for granted.
And even when I when we wrotethings in Everybody's Magazine
about Alexander Hamilton, I usedto be getting phone calls saying
we are spreading misinformation.
Right.
Because nobody could perceivethat one of the founding fathers
of the United States came fromthe islands.
And Shirley Chisholm.
(20:32):
And some of those people I knewpersonally, like Josh Consent,
Dacamati, we never met, but sheused to send me little notes
because she was an avid readerof everybody's magazine.
Same thing for Colin Powell,General Colin Powell.
He was a paid subscriber of themagazine.
So he's going to be in the book.
(20:53):
We did an interview with GeneralColin Powell long before he was
a general.
When he was Lieutenant Connell,nobody knew he was then in the
Reagan White House.
He was the first black person tobe the national security advisor
to the president.
That was between 1987 untilReagan left office.
(21:19):
And then when he was thenational security advisor, he
gave everybody's magazine aninterview.
So I'm screening that interviewnow to put into the book.
And here was a man who tells youbluntly he's Jamaican-American.
Here is a man who tells you thathe grew up with Calypso because
(21:41):
his parent.
Well, in those days, Calypso atthat time was actually the
national music at the time ofJamaica.
But here was a man who grew upwith Cory goats and so forth.
So all of those stuff will be inthe in the in the book.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Wonderful.
I mean, I don't think I haveenough time to have more
conversations with you, Herman.
I mean, just really good stuff.
We're going to continue thisconversation, bringing in Mr.
Clive Williams, because both ofyou are just, you know, men that
I admire and just stalwarts inthe community.
I want to ask you some questionsabout when we were working
(22:18):
together and that experienceworking with Nolan and myself,
who were very frustrated withyour approach to media.
But now that I'm on this side,I'm like, Herman was right.
You had all the knowledge abouthow the media was changing and
young people versus what the oldpeople want.
And I feel like I'm in thatspace.
(22:40):
So I want to hold thatconversation with Mr.
Williams.
But everyone, this is Mr.
Herman Hall of Everybody'sMagazine.
We haven't even begun to touchthe surface of his experience,
his career.
He dabbled in politics.
We still didn't get to that.
But this is not supposed to beexhaustive.
This is supposed to be astarting point for you to go and
(23:03):
learn more.
He has more books.
We'll share some of the coversof the magazine.
But don't go away.
We'll be right back with HermanHall and Mr.
Clive Williams, publisher ofWhere It's At magazine.
Hello everyone, and welcome to this special series
brought to you by Carry OnFriends in partnership with
Where It's At Magazine.
And my guest today is Mr.
Herman Hall, the founder andpublisher of Everybody's
Magazine, the longest-runningCaribbean-American publication.
And in addition to being apublisher, Herman is a
(00:21):
politician.
He is a staller in ourcommunity.
And I'm excited to talk to himpersonally.
Herman has planted the seeds towhat has launched Carry On
Friends.
And I'm excited for you to getto learn to know more about him
and where Caribbean media iscoming from and his thoughts
about where we're going.
So, Herman, welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Well, thank you for inviting me.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Thank you for being here.
So, um, a little bit ofbackstory.
I first met you when I was ayoung woman in 2006.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
You're a studio.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Yes, thank you.
And I wanted to buy tickets forthe Oliver play, one of many
Oliver plays.
But before we get into how youare even doing the promotion for
Oliver plays, let's go back towhat was the reason why you
started everybody's back in1977, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
Yeah, 1977, that's right.
Yeah, so talk to me about that.
Well, essentially, I was amember of the Western American
Day Carnival Association.
And that is the people who putout the Carnival on Labor Day.
And way back in the early 70s,the Carnival was not well known.
(01:37):
We were not even yet on EasternParkway in terms of the parade.
We had to have the events in thepark, in Prospect Park.
And then I was the youngest, theorganizers of the carnival then
were guys working in the subway,New York City Transit Authority.
Others had basically manierjobs.
(01:57):
A couple of their wives werenacci-days and so forth.
And I just happened to be youngand then in my mid-twenties,
going to Brooklyn College, and Ijoined them.
And then I became everything.
I was the public relationsperson.
So I was doing, we had an annualcarnival journal, we called it
(02:20):
in those days.
And I think they still have itevery Labor Day Carnival
Journal.
I think so.
So I got involved in that.
And then in 1976, for the 200thanniversary of the United
States, what we call thebicentennial, the federal
government had reached out tothe West Indian American Day
(02:42):
Carnival Association for us topromote anything Caribbean
during the 200 years, theCaribbean relationship or the
West Indian relationship withthe United States for 200 years.
So I produced theCaribbean-American Carnival
Journal to coincide with theBicentennial.
(03:05):
But at the same time, I also puton my own booklet because I
always love history.
And as a matter of fact, when Igraduated from Brooklyn College,
it was my intention to go toColumbia University to do my
graduate work in journalism.
So it kind of been with me.
So having done the Caribbean,the West Indian Carnival
(03:28):
Journal, the BicentennialJournal, and then my own little
booklet, I thought that therewas a market.
So I decided to do it.
Moreover, at that particulartime in the 70s, late 60s, early
70s, 80s, the census, consensusthen was that the premier
(03:49):
magazines, Ebony and Jet, theywere not covering
Caribbean-American activities oreven Caribbean activities once
in a blue moon.
So that was the criticism.
So I decided to createeverybody's magazine to
encompass the entireEnglish-speaking Caribbean.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Wonderful.
This is why I wanted to havethis conversation because I've
known some of these stories,these tidbits, because you've
shared them with me over theyears.
So I'm really glad that we'reletting viewers in on some of
this history.
Now, one of the things you'vealways said to me was, you know,
no one remembers Brooklyn beforeBrooklyn became Caribbean.
(04:28):
You used to tell me EasternParkway used to be Lily White.
So talk to me a little bit for,because most kids now, most of
us now know Brooklyn for beingthis hub of Caribbean culture.
What was Brooklyn back then?
What was Brooklyn in the way youwere you're telling me it wasn't
as we know it now?
SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
Well, well, in terms of the carnival, uh, we will
leave that for uh maybe inanother minute.
But when I arrived in thiscountry in 1967, the the
migration from Harlem toBrooklyn among Westinians had
already started.
So I think the migration fromHarlem to Brooklyn, Westinian
(05:11):
style already started maybe inthe early 50s.
But prior to that, when it wasnot plains in the 20s and 30s,
immigrants from Jamaica,Barbados, Grenada, those places,
Harlem was where you went.
This is why, this is whereMarcus Garvey, you know, this is
(05:32):
where Malcolm X mother, everyoneleave, Claude McKee.
But then the exodus of Brooklynbegan sometime in the 50s.
So when I arrived here in 67,all we are was still whites.
And Carlos Lizama, this is allwe like to use the word, Lily
(05:52):
Whites.
I took it from Carlos Lizama,who is the one who introduced
Carnival, not to Brooklyn, butto Eastern Parkway.
The carnival really came fromHarlem, and it was a man named
Rufus Gring who actually went toprison for staging a carnival
with her to Pomet.
But it was Carlos Lizama whoreally developed it.
(06:13):
So when Carlos decided to go tothe Brooklyn Museum to get
Eastern Parkway as a paradeground, as the community, it was
all white, you know, and soforth, were totally opposed to
it.
As a matter of fact, the ladywho was in charge of the
Brooklyn Museum, when shedecided to give us the Brooklyn
(06:34):
Museum grounds to stage what isin all those shows at the back
of the museum every Labor Dayweekend, she was fired.
She lost the job.
Well, of course, she passedmany, many years ago.
So, but however, going back now,in the 30s and 40s, there was a
sprinkling of Caribbean peopleactually living in Brooklyn.
(06:58):
He's not everyone who arrived onthe boat went to Harlem.
So one of the pioneers inCalypso, Gerald Clarke, for
example, this is the man who wasthe premier.
He had the Calypso ban in the40s and 50s.
If you were to look at anyCalypso in the 40s and 50s, you
will see it marked Gerald Clark.
(07:20):
Then he lived in Bedstay.
Then Thompson, whose grandsonwill be New York City, not
public advocate, but he would bethe controller.
And he ran right for mayor.
His parents, as a matter offact, Bill still owns the
property of his grandparents inBertstay.
(07:41):
So coming back, you can say inthe 40s and 50s, you did have a
certain amount of Caribbeanpeople beginning to actually
settle.
But these were Caribbean peoplewho had a certain amount of um,
maybe they could have beenslightly middle class.
Gerald Twak was a fake musician.
There was um Baker from umNevis, Montstrapped, and he was
(08:06):
the first black in the New YorkState um in the Senate, in the
New York State Senate, and hetoo was from one of the smaller
islands.
But I think the rush to Brooklynen masse, it really began maybe
in the 60s.
SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Wow.
So in talking to you, we'velearned some carnival history,
and we probably have to do thatanother time.
That people went to jail toactually Wellgoring, only and
and someone lost a job.
Someone went to jail and someonelost a job for putting on like
the early iteration.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
The white video at the Brooklyn Museum grounds,
yes.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Now let's go back to the magazine.
So while uh while I wasvolunteering, working with you
on the magazine those four yearsuntil I got married, um, there
were so many iconic photographsthat the magazine had throughout
the years.
And you've told me stories ofAvery Fisher Hall when the
magazine had its annual gala.
(09:06):
So when we think of everybody'smagazine, what is the magazine
cover or what's the issue thatpeople most recognize, talk
about, or remember?
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Well, I think it would have to be Bob Marley.
Yeah, there's no question aboutit.
Um, our first major issue, eventhough the magazine started
in '77, we had Bob on the coverin 78.
And in those days we wereprinting 4,000.
And I remember um we had therewas a company, Latin American
(09:41):
News Agency.
They were the distributors ofthe Gleener, the Jamaica
Gleaner, and they took me onalso to distribute the magazine.
And within two weeks, the 4,000were sold.
And then we had to print another4,000.
And that was when Bob performedat Madison Square Garden.
That was his first performance.
(10:02):
His first, and then he wassitting at the Firewood
performance there.
So it was um, I always have tosay Bob Marley, but then we
started in the sem in the late77.
But the Caribbean, early 80s,beginning in 79, was on fire.
You had the first coup d'etat inthe English-speaking Caribbean
(10:23):
when Maurice Bishop overthrew agame.
So that was no longer a grenaderstory, it was a worldwide
Caribbean event.
So anything with Maurice Bishopon the cover would have been
selling, iconic cover.
Then you had at the same time,you had Michael Manley.
Yes.
(10:43):
Okay, who the America did notcare about, but was really
working for the working class inJamaica.
So anything on Michael Manley,Maurice Bishop, you know, Bob
Molly, those covers, nobody wasasking, well, this is a Barbados
magazine or Grenadian magazine.
(11:06):
Everybody from every island werepurchasing those um issues
because of the covers.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
And your edition last year to coincide with the
Grenadas um anniversary, youshared the story of getting
those exclusive interviews withum Gary when he was in the hotel
and um some of yourconversations with Maurice
Bishop.
So I'll make sure that I'll putthe link to that so people can
get that issue and read some ofthat um interview and
(11:35):
conversations, which I foundvery enlightening.
So moving a little bit ahead,you now are promoting the Oliver
Samuels plays, which now has adifferent type of audience.
Talk to me about how youtransitioned into that space.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, well, we never transitioned.
The boat, the board were runningconcurrently.
Yeah.
Well, again, getting funding forany magazine used to be very
difficult.
If you read the autobiography ofJohnson, who founded Every, he
would tell you all of thosestories.
So getting funding for uhespecially a Caribbean
(12:12):
publication would have beenvery, very difficult.
So I and then I thought byhaving appealing to a younger
audience uh and somebody whowill embrace the Caribbean would
bring readers and subscribersand supporters and advertisers
to the magazine.
So we had Calypsonians, um,people came to see.
(12:37):
But then Nolan Patterson'sparents um who worked for the
magazine, even his status goingbasically you can even say
kindergarten, you know, until hegraduated with his master's
degree.
So his parents who told himabout this, Oliver Samuel.
And when I reached out toOliver, um we started in 1990.
(13:01):
And at that particular time, Iwould have been one of the first
promoters who treated Oliver inan honest manner.
You mean because in those days,if you have a show and you're a
promoter, you have a show andyou didn't make money, people
didn't come to the show, thepoor always wouldn't get paid.
(13:23):
But Oliver, so I treated Oliverdifferent.
And then we started, and thenpeople up to today associate me
with Oliver.
So we started in 1990.
We did Brooklyn College.
Then when I told Oliver I wasgoing to take him to the Bronx,
he was crying blood.
Because he said, listen, I wentto Lehman College, where I think
(13:48):
it was Kingston Boys, one ofthose Jamaican organizers, they
all failed.
And I said, No, and believe youme, we will succeed.
So then we went to the Bronx,Queens, York College, then
Boston, Bridgeport, Hartford,Maryland, Washington, and so
forth.
(14:09):
But in the meantime, we alsowere doing um big concerts, um,
especially in Calypso.
Right.
I don't know if you were withthe magazine when we did the
world Calypso Monarch.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
No, I wasn't, but I was with the the magazine when
you did the Shadow show inBrooklyn College.
SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
Right.
Well, I well, you've demanded weshould we uh managed Shadow.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Yeah, I was Shadow's manager from 1975 or 76 until he
passed.
Yeah.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
Love this history.
I am so excited.
The world Calypso Monop wasmassive.
Uh actually, the people who didthe videoing, they videoed Bob
Marley's last concert.
So it was a big um company.
They used to shoot for Channel13.
It was massive.
The first prize was 20,000 USdollars.
Oh, that's I mean, in those dayswe had big we had big sponsors.
(14:59):
Those days are Finnish.
But um we had a Calypsoan fromGermany, white Californians.
We had a Californian fromJamaica, um, who had um he had
um he had some very humoroustunes, um, one of Jamaica's top
Californians at that time.
(15:20):
Um, and then we had we hadrepresentatives from all the
islands, Virgin Islands, um,Antigua, and so forth.
And Trogdos, um, the Californianwho went on to earn his PhD, not
an honorary PhD, but uh alegitimate PhD, he he won God
the$20,000.
And it was on pay-per-view.
SPEAKER_01 (15:41):
Wonderful.
So where are we today witheverybody's magazine and all the
different ventures?
I'm I know from working with youthat the media has media has
shrunk, not just for blackmedia, but especially Caribbean
media.
So where are we today witheverybody's and everything that
you're working with?
SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Well, where we are today is really facing reality.
Um, number one, the technologyhas changed.
Print will never die, but printwill never be the same.
It's like saying um jazz, whenrock and roll came about, um,
people were saying when thetelevision came, people will say
(16:23):
the movie industry will die, orwhen rock and roll or those sort
of music came along, people sayjazz will die, but jazz is still
here.
Those things will never die.
Same thing with print, but printwill never be what it is.
So facing that reality andgiving my age right now, I mean,
um, it's it's in the sense thatI'm gradually phasing out, but
(16:49):
even though I'm phasing out, wehave a lot of work there.
Um, Yale University, forexample, is interested in the
magazine's um portfolios,photos, articles, manuscripts,
but they all have to becataloged first.
So I think in that respect, butI have basically not doing shows
(17:11):
anymore.
Because shows is for a youngergeneration.
Shows when you're a promoter,producer, it's very, very
nerve-breaking.
You're wondering, you are theperson who is spending the
money, will you get back themoney?
Who is going to say you didn'tpay them?
It's very nerve-wracking.
So it's for a youngergeneration.
But I have done two books andI'm writing two books presently.
(17:35):
So this is how I hope to end it.
One of the books um should havebeen out since last year.
It is from Alexander Hamilton toKamala Harris.
And the book was should havebeen out.
Had you had Kamala Harris wonthe election, I would have sped
it up.
But that book from AlexanderHamilton to Kamala Harris is
(17:58):
going to be transcultural,transnational.
Anyone will be able to read it.
I hope President Trump will wantto read it because it will be
telling you about thecontributions of Caribbean
nationals going back to the 18thcentury.
You see, most people still don'trealize, well, thank goodness of
(18:21):
Hamilton the play.
And now President Trump is umwith his um the law where he has
enforced the 80th, the 1798 lawabout um extraditing nationals
and so forth.
That was created by Hamilton toa certain extent.
So the book gives you ClaudeMcKay, the great Jamaican poet.
(18:45):
Um we have people like one ofthe founders of Carver Savings
Bank was Jamaican.
Then you have Malcolm X's mom,she came from Grenada.
The first black to captain, thefirst black captain in the
United States Merchant Marinewas from St.
(19:06):
Vincent.
The first black person to hold ahigh selected office in New York
City was from St.
Lucia.
He was the first black person tobecome borough president.
And um and so forth.
So there's a lot people didn'tknow.
Um the other day I was lookingat um one of the channels and
(19:27):
they were talking about GeorgeConstant Baker Motley.
And when you speak to peopletoday, they ask, who is the they
see her as 100% AfricanAmerican?
There's no wrong, there'snothing wrong with that.
But she was born, yes, inConnecticut.
Her parents were from Nevis.
George Marty Constant BaconMartley was, she has about a
(19:50):
million force.
The first black woman appearedin New York City to become
borough president of anyborough.
The first black woman to becomea Senior judge.
She was Martin Luther King'slawyer.
Okay.
So these are the sort of storiesthat we either don't know or we
(20:10):
take for granted.
And even when I when we wrotethings in Everybody's Magazine
about Alexander Hamilton, I usedto be getting phone calls saying
we are spreading misinformation.
Right.
Because nobody could perceivethat one of the founding fathers
of the United States came fromthe islands.
And Shirley Chisholm.
(20:32):
And some of those people I knewpersonally, like Josh Consent,
Dacamati, we never met, but sheused to send me little notes
because she was an avid readerof everybody's magazine.
Same thing for Colin Powell,General Colin Powell.
He was a paid subscriber of themagazine.
So he's going to be in the book.
(20:53):
We did an interview with GeneralColin Powell long before he was
a general.
When he was Lieutenant Connell,nobody knew he was then in the
Reagan White House.
He was the first black person tobe the national security advisor
to the president.
That was between 1987 untilReagan left office.
(21:19):
And then when he was thenational security advisor, he
gave everybody's magazine aninterview.
So I'm screening that interviewnow to put into the book.
And here was a man who tells youbluntly he's Jamaican-American.
Here is a man who tells you thathe grew up with Calypso because
(21:41):
his parent.
Well, in those days, Calypso atthat time was actually the
national music at the time ofJamaica.
But here was a man who grew upwith Cory goats and so forth.
So all of those stuff will be inthe in the in the book.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Wonderful.
I mean, I don't think I haveenough time to have more
conversations with you, Herman.
I mean, just really good stuff.
We're going to continue thisconversation, bringing in Mr.
Clive Williams, because both ofyou are just, you know, men that
I admire and just stalwarts inthe community.
I want to ask you some questionsabout when we were working
(22:18):
together and that experienceworking with Nolan and myself,
who were very frustrated withyour approach to media.
But now that I'm on this side,I'm like, Herman was right.
You had all the knowledge abouthow the media was changing and
young people versus what the oldpeople want.
And I feel like I'm in thatspace.
(22:40):
So I want to hold thatconversation with Mr.
Williams.
But everyone, this is Mr.
Herman Hall of Everybody'sMagazine.
We haven't even begun to touchthe surface of his experience,
his career.
He dabbled in politics.
We still didn't get to that.
But this is not supposed to beexhaustive.
This is supposed to be astarting point for you to go and
(23:03):
learn more.
He has more books.
We'll share some of the coversof the magazine.
But don't go away.
We'll be right back with HermanHall and Mr.
Clive Williams, publisher ofWhere It's At magazine.
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