October 1, 2024 • 54 mins
In this episode I sit down with J.O., a multifaceted Jamaican American filmmaker, songwriter, and content creator whose journey is nothing short of inspiring. From the musically rich influences of Bob Marley and Michael Jackson during his childhood to the pivotal moment of appearing on Extreme Makeover in 2005, J.O. shares his story of perseverance, growth, and relentless ambition.
Our conversation uncovers the layers of J.O.'s career, from the continuous effort of honing his craft in acting, songwriting, and screenwriting. J.O. opens up about the challenges of the creative journey, emphasizing the importance of understanding one’s purpose in storytelling and maintaining focus on personal growth.
We delve into the business side of the arts and the complexities of maintaining cultural authenticity in mainstream media. J.O. shares his strategies for building an independent entertainment brand, particularly within the Caribbean context, and the power of a DIY approach. Highlighting his work with Black and Sexy TV and the creation of his hit series, Rider, J.O. provides insights into leveraging partnerships and monetizing content. This episode is packed with ambition, cultural energy, and practical advice for aspiring creatives eager to carve their own paths. Don't miss out on this enriching conversation!
Connect with J.O. - Website | Instagram
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode
of Carry On Friends, theCaribbean American Experience,
and I'm excited because thepre-recording conversation was
already exciting and fun, and soI'm excited to welcome JO to
the podcast.
Jo, how are you Welcome?
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, carrie-anne, thank you for that awesome
introduction.
You know, just happy to be heretalking with you.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I'm excited.
So why don't you tell thecommunity of friends a little
bit about who you are Caribbeancountry or countries you
represent and a little bit aboutthe work you do?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
generation born in Miami, florida.
You guys know how that goes Bigold family.
I'm the last one, but when theygot me they're like, okay,
we're staying.
So we all grew up in Miami, newYork and that kind of existence
.
But overall I'm a filmmaker,I'm a songwriter, content
creator.
I do all of those things.
If you've ever seen In LivingColor and you know the hey man
(01:07):
sketch, I am that person.
I've kind of lived up to thatmost of my life and other things
I do an entertainment industryprofessional.
Over 10 years experience,everything from music videos,
directing, writing above andbelow the line.
I just keep going.
(01:28):
You learn one thing and you'relike, all right, I see what you
guys got going on over here, butI want more and I just use my
ambition and just keep moving upthe ladder.
Currently I support thebusiness affairs attorneys for a
major streaming company andbasically we negotiate with the
writers and content partners forthe platform.
(01:49):
So that's like my day hustleand, like I said, a lot of jobs.
You know, I just keep going.
It's ambition.
This can be the interview ifyou keep letting me go.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Listen, just in that opening, right, you know like
you may have a full-time job.
You know the day hustle and wedo this.
And then you asked me if I wasa filmmaker.
You know, before we startedrecording, I'm like nah, but you
know, I feel like I coulddirect some stuff.
Just give me resource, I'm a,take a stab at it.
You know, it's the energy, it'sthe culture.
(02:22):
You're full of ambition and youjust want to try a thing if you
are interested in it.
So I already love that energy.
So we know that you know, manof many talents, you see
something, you're full ofambition.
What made you first decide thatyou wanted to get into
entertainment?
You wanted to direct, youwanted to do all this.
(02:43):
What was that first littlespark for you?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
okay, music was my entry point music and poetry.
My mother raised all this byherself when she got here.
But the memories I do have ofmy father he did the play a part
right Jamaica man love hismusic.
So we always had like bobplaying like core memories early
on.
Is bob marley could this belove?
(03:10):
Dancing with my dad, dancingwith my mom, my brothers and
sisters.
Um, that lit the spark formusic.
And then, uh, I'm a littleolder.
So michael jackson mohawklisten, there's not one jamaican
I come across that don't talkabout michael jackson.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Moonwalk, listen, there's not one jamaican.
I come across that don't talkabout michael jackson, because I
have a similar memory, like yousaid, a little older.
So 1988, after hurricanegilbert damages jamaica right,
my brother, my all, the fenceand everything blow down.
We get up and we're performingthe bad album to everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, yes, oh, the family performances that brings
like you perform for whoevercome over.
That's just the way we grew up.
It's so funny that youmentioned that part, but music
definitely lit the spark.
I'm always singing, even inschool, getting in trouble for
like hold on Tita.
I know the answer to that, butlet me do this little
(04:10):
performance in the middle.
You know just that kind ofenergy since I was a kid, just
how I've always been all right.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So the entry point was music.
I feel like I already feel theconnection because, as I said to
you, my husband's like how muchTV you love watch, which song,
don't you know?
Right, because you know, as Iwas saying earlier, as a girl,
you know, I can't roam and goabout business like he would.
(04:41):
As a boy growing up in Jamaica,and when I moved here, that was
the first time ever Iexperienced what it meant to be
a latchkey kid, because inJamaica your family live in the
district or the community.
Auntie live across the road,right, they're neighbors, so
you're never really alone.
And I grew up in what they calla multi-generational home,
(05:01):
because it's not just your mommyand you, it's mommy, grandma,
uncle, everybody live in the oneo's right.
So I was never home alone.
So when I came here, it wasexperiencing being a latchkey
kid.
So you either watch tv are we atad of watch tv, where you know
you play music?
Are we playing music again?
(05:23):
So I already feel like, yes,you're speaking my language.
So music was the entry point.
And then what was that firstscenario where you're like, oh,
I could do a little bit more.
What is that?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
School.
So in school, high school, justlooking for a class, for a
right, looking for something, soyou don't have to work so hard,
like, all right, I'm smart, Ican pass tests and all of that,
but I don't want to work so hard.
You know, teenage boy, I wantto do teenage boy things.
But uh, I take uh drama as anelective, just random.
(06:04):
And in the class, you know, Ihave a teacher, miss Santiago.
I still remember her name and Iwon't lie to you.
Very humble beginnings, likeit's not a rosy, I'm smiling and
I'm glossing over all thehardship, right, which I know
everyone is familiar with.
But get to high school.
(06:25):
I'm like working a full-timejob after school, overnight,
clean up, come to school inclass, so looking for easy
grades, so to speak.
I take drama, Miss Santiago, shesees something I do, a scene
from the hurricane with Denzel.
I don't know if you rememberthe scene where he's kind of
(06:47):
like battling demons.
He's in solitary confinementbattling demons and she gives me
a project and I do the projectand it touches something in her.
The class is like they see medifferently for the first time.
The class is like they see medifferently for the first time
(07:08):
and I just put a little asteriskby that moment because I'm like
, okay, this is something Icould do once I get the other
parts of my life kind of clearit up.
We're gonna circle back to thisbecause I think there's a
talent here and that's literallywhat I did.
Yeah, long journey, but that Idefinitely remember being in
drama class in high school andsaying, oh, I can do this and I
(07:28):
get a reaction from this thatit's good for both parties.
You know what I mean.
Some people get in for thewrong reasons.
They want other things.
But I felt good giving theperformance and the people who
received it felt touched by it,so it sparked something.
The performance and the peoplewho received it felt touched by
it, so it sparked something.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So from that moment to where you are now like I'm
sure there's a lot of ups anddowns, meanderings Did you
always work a full-time job andthen decided that you know, I'm
gonna do music on the side?
At what point did you actuallystart to actively work on this
thing while doing a full-timejob, and where did you find time
(08:11):
in the edges of your day tokind of do this?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I'm a firm believer in the 24-hour day, so there's
24 hours in a day.
You can't get more, you can'tget less.
So you really have to map itout.
Most of my life I go with theflow, you know.
Sometimes I can be on Caribbeanpeople time that's what my
friends call it.
But for the most part you know,I know where I need to be, what
(08:38):
I need to be doing.
I have a good blueprint, so tospeak, after college.
So you know the ambitious sideright.
You have to make sure themoney's right.
So you have to do the schooling.
You don't have to.
But I'm not a person whobelieves you have to put all the
eggs in one basket.
I think you can spread it andif you take your time and you're
(08:59):
intentional, you can get towhere you need to go.
So with my humble beginnings Iwasn't going to go more humble
beginnings.
I'm trying to get out of that.
So you know, went to college,got a business degree.
The one thing I should sayanother thing people might know
me from is Extreme Makeover.
(09:20):
So I was born with a cleftpalate and I got on the show to
Extreme Makeover.
They did my final surgery.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Right, right, right, but that is a game changer for
me, right?
So that's part of the thingsthat I said.
I have to wrap up certainthings in my life so that I can
move forward.
So I put a pin in the music, Iput a pin in the acting and I
got that part taken care of.
I got on that show and theybrought me to LA for the first
time.
So that's 2005.
(09:50):
So just for some context of howlong you know the journey goes.
So in 2005, I'm on this show.
It changes everything for me.
I couldn't have planned it thatway.
You know.
I'm on Larry King, I'm sittingnext to him in LA and you know,
(10:13):
just living it up, seeing howthey do things and then
realizing like, ok, are theygoing to let me in this industry
this way?
And at that time it was kind ofthe reality TV versus scripted
TV battle.
People were like why is thereso much reality TV on and all of
that kind of nonsense wherereally it's just entertainment?
But I did have to start over.
(10:36):
I had to go back to actingclasses, I had to learn how to
act, I had to learn how toaudition, I had to learn how to
screenwrite and all of thatthing.
So when I got out here afterthe show and I'm trying to get
in the industry, I'm all green,going to auditions and I clearly
see I'm not up to snuff.
I'm not on the level of thesepeople.
They're killing it.
Let's go back to the lab.
(10:57):
So around 2009-ish 2008, I getreally serious about being in
the entertainment business.
I put songs on TV shows.
In the meantime, I workedaccounting contract jobs, I did
background work, I did work.
I worked the events.
(11:20):
You get in where you fit in.
That really is the model.
You go around you high-fivepeople, you make them feel good
about themselves.
You learn your craft, you honeyour craft.
It takes so long to figure outwhat you want to say.
Right, forget just making ashow.
Like why do you want to make ashow?
(11:41):
What do you want to tell people?
You know I'm not a ego-drivenperson, so I really had to sit
down with myself like what am Itrying to express?
What do I want people to leavewith when they watch something I
make?
How do I want them to feel?
You know, is it just aboutmoney?
Is it about women or the otherthings?
(12:02):
Like, know, those are allthings that get you off track.
It's really easy to get caughtup in the drugs, the lifestyle
you know, and I didn't want thatto be what my career was about.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
All right.
So, jo, what you just saidresonated with me, particularly
the part on how long it takes,because I feel like, personally,
right, but I don't give a shit.
Lots of people out Sometimesthey feel like yo, I don't give
a shit.
Lots of people sometimes theyfeel like yo, this is taking
forever.
And sometimes you feel like, amI doing something wrong?
But it's the process, right,it's, it's just like you said,
(12:35):
like you have to try a thing.
You see that you're not up tosnuff.
You have to take away yourself,as we say, and go back to the
drawing board.
And let's just be honest, theprocess just does take long.
It just feels like it's shorterfor other people because we're
seeing the top of their iceberg,but we don't understand how
(12:56):
long it really takes.
So you know, you just reallygave a really quick timeline
from when that spark first came,going out to LA, then deciding
to okay, let me try a few things.
And then, in the trying the fewthings, knowing that I'm still
(13:18):
not even anywhere where I needto be.
I think that's where thefrustration is right.
All right, you're learningdifferent angle of the business.
You work on events, you do thejobs, you understand the
contracts them of that on theside, you know.
But there are moments in in myday I'm not speaking about you,
so if you relate to this, youknow you find yourself doing a
(13:39):
little bit of that.
And then there's moments in theday I say, all right, I'll do
all of that, but you're still alook down upon the runway and
it's way out there and if Idon't catch myself quick I can
get lost in feeling hopeless,like not hopeless, they're just
like I know what you mean Downtrotting.
(13:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like yo, I'll do all of that.
I'm right here, so I'm going.
She's like yo, I'm going to doall of that.
I'm going to write here, so I'mgoing to look, like, look, how
much further it is to go, and itcan be easy to give up in those
moments.
So how do you handle thosemoments where you're just like
I've been doing all this work Iknow there's more to do, but I'm
nowhere where I need to be?
(14:20):
Like how do you handle those?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And then we'll go back to your story need to be
like, how do you handle those?
And then we'll go back to yourstory.
I'll say the my youth preparedme for this.
Like, to me, this is nothingright, because I don't mean
nothing like, like it doesn'tmatter, but it's in comparison
to what we had to endure to gethere, this isn't what matters.
What matters is you, us havingthis conversation, conversation
(14:43):
your family, your loved ones.
I mean, the pandemic kind ofshowed us what's important.
But I am a firm believer thatstorytelling is one of the most
important things to the humanexperience.
That's how we learn, that's howwe grow, that's how we honor
the past, that's how wecommemorate things that we
(15:05):
should keep going forwardtraditions, all of those things.
So that's what drove me,because you can't go through
something and then forget itwhen you come up against
something that's similar.
If I dealt with it at 15, whenI'm 25, it's going to be a
25-year-old version of it, butI've seen it before.
(15:26):
So keep it calm, keep thecomposure and then navigate
accordingly.
And it's the same way.
This industry has so many, somany alleys.
You know, sometimes dead ends.
You can get on the show, theshow get canceled.
You write something.
You write five things.
Nobody wants any of the five.
(15:46):
You're about to move back homeand then six years later
somebody calls you like, hey,you know that thing you wrote,
we want to do it, and now yourlife changed.
So it's almost like playing alottery, but it's a lottery that
you know you can win.
It's a lottery, you know, if Ikeep going this route, if I keep
(16:08):
putting in work, if I keepdoing my due diligence, it's
going to work out and that's howmy life has gone.
So that's the faith I kind of Ikeep with.
You're not doing what you'resupposed to do, you're rolling
the dice, but if you're doingwhat you need to be doing, you
intentional about it.
My wife says it to me from timeto time.
She's like you always land onyour feet.
(16:28):
I say to the people in my, inmy circle you always land on
your feet because you will, weyou know how many times have you
, you suffered a setback in yourlife?
So up to this date you won.
Everyone you know I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, I love that you said that, if you're doing what
you're supposed to do, becausethe distraction comes right,
because you feel like what I'mdoing now works, so let see
something, you get distracted,right, that's a setback in a way
(17:11):
, because it's going to take youon a different journey.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So you make a left when you could have went
straight.
Now you gotta go the left routeand you do have to go the whole
route till you come back.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So exactly, exactly that.
Um man, um yeah, I'm, I'm, Ifeel like man.
You're going to hold a reasonand you know let's move off from
that.
But I do want to just put a pinin that point.
Like a lot of times what we'redoing feels monotonous, it's not
getting us anywhere, but it isthe path right.
(17:44):
And if we look like in aprevious episode I said to a
friend, don't go you saying canI run?
I look right, I still win Right, that's not us.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Everybody can't do that.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Everybody can't do that Right.
So look straight, run yourwrist, run through the tip, lean
at the finish line and you know, and then do your dance Exactly
.
Right.
So one of the reasons that Iwanted to have this conversation
with you, as I started before,I feel like the industry you're
(18:21):
in media and entertainment isone of the last frontiers for us
as people of Caribbean heritage, us as Jamaicans and then
broadly, people of Caribbeanheritage People already are top
boat with food jerk chicken.
You know they're taught aboutoxtails.
You know our music has takenover or dances have taken over,
and so I feel like media andentertainment seeing ourselves
(18:43):
on the small screen and bigscreen more is like the last
frontier for us in terms oftakeover.
I didn't want to say takeover,but you know what I mean with
takeover.
Right, because the talent isthere, the stories we can't run
out of stories.
It's in abundance.
Right, it's never ending Animmigration story.
(19:08):
For me, coming to Brooklyn isdifferent for your mom going to
Miami, different from someonegoing to California, texas,
right, it's a similar experience, but the stories are different.
Right, ask about what yourthoughts are on where the future
is for us on that, because youknow, if you're following the
(19:31):
news, you know platforms arebeing acquired, businesses are
being sold, you just said it.
You know shows are beingcanceled, things aren't being
picked up and, to your point,there are other people better
than you out there, right, andso it's not as easy.
You know, I had a previousepisode where someone was just
(19:54):
like they're not just hiringCaribbean people for roles, you
know.
And if you're not part of theunion, that's another hurdle
that's going to impact you andall that.
So, from where you sit, fromyour, your experience, what are
your thoughts on this whole lastfrontier, like star trek?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I have a lot of thoughts on this.
Right, I'm ready for all thosethoughts bring it so I do a
little consulting on the sideand, um, this is something I run
into a lot because people watchtv and they instantly it.
It's human nature.
You see somebody on TV, ifsomeone kind of looks like you
or maybe you just love the story, you say I can do that, and you
(20:34):
can.
For a long time they kind ofdidn't let us behind the curtain
to see what the wizard is up to.
You know from the Wizard of Oz,what's the wizard doing back
there?
But I think the first thing toget in this industry, this
business, from what I see, a lotof people don't understand how
it works.
And what I mean by that is whenyou say business, why am I
(20:56):
talking about art?
Because art is life, right,that's music, dancing, all the
things you said.
That's art, culture is art.
That's part of who you are as ahuman.
But when you add the wordbusiness to it and you say movie
business, music business,television business, all of that
stuff, that means money isinvolved.
And if you don't know how theymake money and when I say they I
(21:22):
mean the businesses If youdon't understand how the
businesses make money, then youwon't know where to get in.
It's like double-dutch, rightLike the rope, then you won't
know where to get in.
It's like double-dutch, rightLike the rope I go.
You got to know where you getin, because if you don't know
how, then what are we doing?
So first thing I would say isthat understanding that
advertising, marketing orsubscriptions is how they make
(21:43):
most of their money.
It doesn't matter if it's analbum.
If you're listening to theradio, it's not about your music
, it's about the commercials onthe radio.
If you're watching TV, if yousee a commercial in between your
shows, which all of them havead tiers now, so you understand.
That's how they make money.
I'm sure you've been readingthe trade so you know
subscriptions right.
Netflix has how manysubscriptions, hulu has how many
(22:06):
subscriptions.
That's how they make theirmoney.
So that's the actual dollartransaction.
So that's one thing If you wantto be in this business,
understand where the money ismade and who the players are
coordinating that money dance,so to speak.
The second thing I would say isunderstanding the audience
(22:26):
versus the customer.
So that's two separate peoplethat you have to make happy,
because when they put Caribbeanpeople on shows and they talk
with that terrible Patois and weall know like yo, that's not a
Jamaican accent.
You start Googling them, you'relike, are they even Jamaican?
(22:46):
And you find out they're fromlike some other country that has
no affiliation.
But their, their skin is brownor black and they put them on
the movie.
But you hear them talking likethat's not how my country talks,
that's not how we act.
You know, you see it on screenand you know instantly.
So understanding your audiencewould say Jamaicans don't like
when you don't have a Jamaicanperson speaking Patois or you
(23:09):
know a Trini person or whateverisland that they're representing
, if you're not representing aproperty, because we're not all
one very similar, but not allone.
So that's understanding youraudience.
So that's on the creative side.
But on the other side of thatis understanding your customer.
But on the other side of thatis understanding your customer.
You have to make sure that thenetwork, that the sponsors, that
(23:33):
the studios, the advertisersare happy too.
So you have to tell an authenticstory that they want to share
with the masses, which is whyit's so difficult to be
mainstream.
That's the main conundrum wheredo you want to be mainstream?
Or do you want to have your ownthing?
Because we can have our ownthing, we can enjoy it, and then
(23:56):
they're going to be lookingover and like what you guys
doing over there.
You know what I mean.
Or, if you try to be mainstream, you know it's not going to
have all the seasoning andflavors that you're used to or
that you like.
Which one do you want?
Which one makes the most sensefor you as a creative, for you
as a professional and, in yourheart, like do you want to talk
to your people or do you want totalk to all the people?
(24:17):
You know it's a choice.
It's a decision that everycreative or every filmmaker or
anyone in this industry has tomake.
Do you want to work with thebig players or do you want to
build something from the groundup.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Both sides are needed and it's not a one trick pony
Like you need all of it to kindof come together.
I love that you wrote that down.
That is so important and Ithink the part that I asked
someone else in a previousepisode was okay.
We understand the networks, weunderstand the big players when
it gets confusing and I wastelling somebody must have last
week what does independent looklike?
(24:56):
Is it these free platforms?
And we just call them name, youknow, is it a Roku channel?
Is it a one on the, you know,pluto?
Whatever all these things are,I don't know.
I'm not endorsing one over theother.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
All they do is?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
it just creates options.
It creates so many options thatthere's inertia, because I'm
just like I'm going to knowwhich one for what.
So you default to what'sfamiliar or comfortable and then
remember, I like to watch TV.
So, I have more streamingplatforms than my friends yeah.
Like I have all the things right.
(25:35):
Some people are like I'm onlypaying for this Right, so let's
talk about that independent side, like what are the challenges
there?
Cause it seems like that is theway that most people are going,
because the majors are harderto get onto.
But I also feel like there's astruggle with these streaming
(25:56):
platforms, because there are somany, and which one is going to
get me the most views for myproject.
So let me know your thoughts onthat one for my project.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So let me know your thoughts on that one.
That's actually where my heartlies.
I am very much a DIYdo-it-yourself person.
I love the independency.
That's where I got my start.
I worked at a small independentproduction company called Black
and Sexy TV for a long time andin that process I got to, you
know, a front row seat of how itis, you know.
(26:30):
That's why I said that youstart your own thing and they're
going to look over the fenceand be like what they got going
on over there?
What am I going on with?
You know they're watching youand if it gets popular, that's
when they send the invitationhey, come to our party, come
talk, let's talk about thingsand they see how they could
collaborate.
So there's to our party, cometalk, let's talk about things,
and they see how they couldcollaborate.
So there's really no wayoutside of that.
(26:52):
You have to go.
When we added business, we addedmoney.
When you say art, it's just art.
When you say business now, youhave to see where the money is.
And so the players who arecourting you, so to speak, you
bring your talent, your audience, your viewership, and they
bring their finance and theirknowledge in that area and
(27:12):
that's where the collaborationand partnership happens.
There's no short answer forbuilding up your brand.
Get a good idea, you start thatprocess, you start putting it
out, you get a regular cadence,you get word of mouth as the
(27:35):
money starts to trickle in.
You do ads, whether it's onsocial media or radio
commercials, just like everybodyelse in business newspapers.
You do have to be creative,right, because you don't have as
much resources as the biggercompanies, but it's the same
process.
You get the word out, you knockon people's door, you call them
, you text them, you text yourgranny if you need to, whoever
(27:56):
can help you tell somebody else.
You know, I know about whatsapp, my aunt and everyone from the
island.
I haven't been to the island inso long and yet I know
everything.
I feel like that's going on.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So I feel like them boss, the auntie them and the
grandma them on the whatsapp.
And I remember when I just comeAmerica, how am I going to talk
to my grandmother in Jamaicaafter right?
And then they came out withphone card, call them card, call
(28:29):
them back.
You know, go scratch right.
And then they came out with thecheap phone cards yeah, $5, $3,
$1 card.
And so you know we see theevolution of the technology.
So them in Jamaica can justWhatsApp and then can call me
WhatsApp and it's not, it's themcredits, it's the extra money
(28:52):
or whatever.
So it makes the communicationjust faster and to see them just
.
I mean sometimes it's purechain mail them a forward.
But I'm glad for them to learnto use the technology.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Use the technology, exactly Right.
Those chain letters, exactlyRight.
Those 10 letters, don't stop.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Like, who is forwarding all of these things
to you?
Like, oh, you get it, oh why?
But here we are telling a storywithin this conversation.
So I do get that theindependent portion is the most
viable portion for especiallyCaribbean creators.
Right, I think.
(29:32):
As a consumer, a lot of timesit feels like I don't see where
these platforms are.
Right, the marketing.
So in terms of awareness forthe audience, right, you just
told us about the audience andthe consumer.
What more can the platforms doto reach an audience?
What are the opportunities toconnect with the audience?
(29:54):
What are you seeing?
Because I really feel like itmight feel like you reach the
audience, but it's just a smallsegment of the audience that
you're reaching.
So curious to hear yourthoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You know, that's the lesson I learned, where I
realized ambition is not goingto get it all done Right.
So I told you early on, Irealized I wasn't enough to
snuff, tighten up my belt, wentto classes, got trained, got
right, get all the work to honethe craft, and then realize,
(30:26):
like you know the old saying,it's not what you know, it's who
you know you're like.
Oh, another, another obstacle,right?
So in that I realized you dohave to show up for people.
You do have to.
If you're creating, you have tofind out who else is creating.
If you're exhibiting your ownfilm at a festival, what other
(30:49):
films are in that festival?
Meet those directors, meetthose producers, meet those
marketers right?
Who's hot right now?
Who's popping?
Who you see on Instagram goingviral?
Who are these people?
You got to get in them DMs.
You have to go to theirbirthday party like their photos
.
You really have to supportother people.
(31:11):
That's really what I'm gettingat, if I put it in a nutshell
you know what this feels likeand it's the same concept.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know, like I've never been a party promoter, but
you know how dance go in ourcommunity.
Somebody, I keep a dance, youhave a show for the dance.
Like I you know, say, a couplemonths down the road you're
gonna keep your dance and youwant people come out here and
I'll say you want your dance alot.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So it's the same process same, and because I've
worked in so many industries andI've been around a little bit,
you start realizing oh, that'swhat Einstein meant.
Right, it's all relative.
So just because it's over there, it's transferable.
The skills are transferable,the methods are transferable.
(31:55):
I said, when you add business,it kind of makes it so you know
how it's going to go.
You know what to expect.
There's always going to beunexpected things, but once you
know what you're dealing with,you can kind of navigate around
it.
It's like what's the saying?
You have to know the rules tobreak them.
So I had to learn how to actbefore I could even start
(32:18):
talking about.
Oh yeah, I'm an actor.
It's like I learned how to act.
I learned how to conduct myselfon the set, who the players are
.
It's like okay, you want tolevel up?
Who are the networks?
Who's paying for all of this?
Learn that, okay.
Who are the movers and shakers?
Oh yeah, I need to go talk toyou.
This is what I have going onover here.
(32:38):
I made this show, or I knowthis actor and he has my script
and he wants to be in it.
You have 20 grand.
Okay, cool, cool.
If you give me that 20 grand, Igive you 20 or 120 on it, or.
And then we'll go talk to thisnetwork it's the unity tree,
right?
We all hold hands and we walkinto the office and we say, hey,
(32:58):
we have millennials, women, uh,black, caribbean descent, they
make Caribbean descent, theymake 80 to 120K a year and they
like single camera comedies.
You know, and this is what wemake and this is our pitch deck,
this is our show and we know itwill do this, this, this and
(33:23):
this.
So now, whatever business thatyou're pitching to or network
and say, okay, I like that, Iwant to buy ad time on your
website, I want to buy ad time.
Or I want your actor to promotemy product on his Instagram
these are the ways that youstart getting the money in so
that you can build it.
(33:43):
And it's like I'll give you 40K.
So now the 20K from my newpartner, my friend I met at the
dance.
He said or at the party that's20K, that'll pay for the script.
Then I go to the marketer orthe business and they said
they'll give me 40 grand if Ihave the actor, because they
like the actor, they're up andcoming, if they do three posts a
(34:05):
week for six months, they'llgive me 40k.
I get the 40k.
Now I have 60 and I still havethe same script.
But you see how the moneystarted coming in.
Maybe I want to use the artistmusic, like, hey, I don't have
money now, but at the end, oncewe sell the tickets, I got you.
Okay, I'll do the score andscore, and they call it in kind.
(34:28):
So now I get free music in mything, so I don't have to worry
about that cost.
So now my budget stays low.
You know what I mean?
These are just tricks andtricks.
I'm spitballing here, so don'thold me to these numbers.
But you kind of see how it goes, right, you make the friends.
You see who's doing what.
How can I help you?
(34:49):
How can you help me?
What is my goal?
What's your goal?
Ok, we have this syncopationthere.
Ok, that's cool.
Let's, let's make more money onthis.
And then when the movie comesout, everyone eats, everyone's
happy.
You know, hopefully it's a badmovie.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
We'll do better next time yes, and, and those things
happen and I think to that point, you know, black creators,
caribbean creators, we're notgiven the same grace to make a
movie that bombs right, you knoweverything out the gate have to
, you know, shot, which isunfair because there's so much
(35:30):
more mediocre projectMenangokalo name, but anyway, no
.
But I mean, I mean they'reallowed to make movies about
nothing and things that make nosense and we aren't given the
same grace.
That's just kind of what I'mI'm seeing.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So and that is the who you know portion, right,
because they know or they have,they've known it.
Maybe it's like a nephew, youknow we call them nepho babies,
right?
Like yeah, babies, right likeyeah, yep, you're gonna let your
nephew make a movie if you, ifyou have that, if you have that
ability to now, if it's a badmovie, now you know you can't
make no more, but we have to bein that position, yeah, and
(36:12):
we're getting there, but it'syou're.
You're so right, they don'tgive us opportunities and you
can't make a bad step.
So the pressure is always thereand that's really what kind of
inhibits us, because we don'twant to fail.
We know we're doing it foreveryone behind us and if it's
bad, it's going to take anotherthree years, five years, ten
(36:32):
years for them to get anothershot.
So, yeah, you're so right withthat.
You do have to make it count,but that's how that's our life.
Unfortunately, we don't havethe the ability to fail.
Like we know, everything counts.
We know we have to do it forourselves, for our parents and
(36:52):
for our children yeah,absolutely there's no way around
it yeah, it is exactly thatright is sure.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
It's them saying sure , yeah for sure, this is right,
and and that in itself creates alevel of pressure for the
creator and their project.
All right, so let's talk aboutsome of the projects that you've
worked on and tell the audiencea little bit more about your
portfolio of work.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Where to start the first major things I did.
Back in the day MTV had a showcalled Real World Road Rules.
Getting to LA, I told you musicwas the first love.
So I figured out how.
Maybe I didn't want to be anartist, a recording artist, but
I love music and I love makingsongs.
(37:42):
Maybe I didn't want to be anartist, a recording artist, but
I love music and I love makingsongs.
So I learned about musiclicensing and I put music on
those shows early on.
So Real World and Roll Rules Igave them a beat CD, myself and
friends.
Here you go and all of thosetimes you're watching TV shows
and you hear the little you knowwhat.
I mean the little, whateversong you like, what song is that
?
You don't know what song it is,but somebody made that and I
(38:06):
was one of those people who usedto make those songs.
That's how I kind of got thebug and I realized, oh, you can
just send an email.
You can just send.
Yeah, I mean, it's so simple,but they make it so hard, the
barrier to entry, because wedon't know.
(38:27):
After those shows I did a lot oflike, uh, acting background
work, all types of comedy, I didimprov.
I worked with a group calledgiven still for a long time and
we would do entrepreneur, right.
So we would do live shows, uh,live comedy shows.
I'd have a comedian do stand-updancers come, yeah, and just
make it a whole event, right,you spend $20 and you just hang
(38:49):
out, kind of like a live wildingout situation.
And then from there, black inSex and TV I found them Before
that it wasn't so many Blackpeople, but I found the Black
people in LAA who were makingcontent.
I'm like let's go.
And they were working with IssaRae and please forgive me name
(39:10):
dropping, but you know, leanaway, they were there Numa
Perrier Numa is also she's aco-founder with Dennis of Black
and Sexy TV.
I did sound for them, I wastheir PA, I worked my way up, I
became a writer on their webseries.
Some of their popular onesRoomie, lover, friends, chef,
(39:32):
julian, hello, cupid, the NumberReboot yeah, those were like
some of their hit web series.
And from there they gave me myown.
Well, I should say I createdone and then we talked and I
built up that, that equity withthem.
Right, they know me, we havethe relationship and I created a
hit for them called rider,which was about a ride share
(39:55):
driver in la back.
When lyft and uber first started, everyone thought you were
weird for letting someone inyour car.
And the first I want to say thefirst week I'm driving and some
woman she's like I have to getout the car and her baby's with
(40:16):
her and she's like can you watchmy baby?
I was like what Like?
And I was like what like?
What you mean, can I watch yourbaby?
So, me being adventurous, I'mlike, okay, let's see how this
plays out, because I'm about tocall.
I'm about to call childservices I was about to say
(40:36):
adventurous you're living on theedge jail for real, for real,
definitely.
In that moment it was one ofthose.
You know, you have someone inyour car, a stranger.
They're like do I help thiswoman or do I just turn away and
say, get out of here, crazylady, I'm not watching your baby
?
I decided to watch the baby andthat day I went to a friend's
(40:56):
house, ricardo, who co-createdthe show with me.
Hey, we have a show to make,because my life as a driver is
bananas.
And from there that took off andthat just spiraled into other
things as I became a directorand writer.
And then recently I directed afilm called Green Trip short
(41:20):
film.
It won a bunch of awards, soit's really just a progression.
Right, I started as an actor,or really as a songwriter, and
then you know what?
Songwriting is cool, but I loveTV.
Let me act.
Started acting, realized thatdoing all these auditions isn't
for me, right, I don't know thepeople.
It's 10 black men.
(41:40):
We all kind of look alike.
The most popular one wins.
Fine, I understand that.
But I also know how to work apen.
Let me write my own thing,wrote my own show.
I'm the lead, I'm the star.
Hey, hello Hollywood, I'm here.
And that takes off.
It gets on BET.
They air certain episodes thatI'm in or that I've written, and
(42:03):
then you just keep going uplike, oh, writers don't have all
the power that I need to dothings, let me produce.
Producers are cool, but I wantto control.
You know what I wish?
They zoomed in right therebecause that Carrie Ann just
looks so good in the camera.
I need to get a close up ofthat.
You know that's the director'smind, so I took it there and now
(42:24):
it's like oh, executive, who'smaking the decisions on what
shows?
Because we don't have enoughblack or caribbean people.
So guess what?
Let go, let's go listen.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I you're talking my language because I'm I'm like
I'm the one sitting there, so Icould do that direction.
I feel like I could do that.
Maybe it's my armchair TVwatching, but I just love the
story that you're telling and Ialso want to call out something
that I've always said my sidehustle.
(42:57):
It feeds the full-time job, andthe full-time job feeds the
side hustle because you'relearning skills from these
different areas and it is.
You know, I'm not knockinganyone who doesn't have a
full-time job or prefers to dothat, but I want people to lean
(43:18):
in and say there are things thatyou're learning at your
full-time job that is veryimportant knowledge for you to
have, or and it's valuable tosomeone else you just have to
find the right person.
It's valuable too.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
It's so true.
I'm so glad you said that,because that is something I get
grief for, right, it's like aworkaholic you're doing too much
and you know I said Jamaican,another job.
They come for me all the timewith that, but I'm one person
and the experience I get from myday job or the things I'm
(43:51):
exposed to in my day job, theyhelp my other endeavors.
Like, rich people have a lot ofdiverse income streams so you
can't look at it.
I mean, if you're focused onthe money, you can't just look
at your job and say, oh, that'sall I do, like I said that's 24
hours in a day.
I told you all these things Ido creatively, but right now,
(44:16):
are you familiar with TED Talks?
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
So I'm a speaker coach for TEDx Inglewood, which
is a city in Los Angeles, andit's the skills of directing
right.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
When I'm done JO is going to be my manager, producer
and director, because JO overhere doing the most, but I like
it.
Jo said resume long, likelonger than the Ten Commandments
.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
But it's true, though the skills I learned as a
director.
I have to work with actors.
I have to make them feelcomfortable, help them memorize
their lines.
Now I'm a speaker coach forpeople doing TED Talks right, I
get to help them expressthemselves on that stage in a
clear, concise way, learn theirdialogue that they wrote.
(45:14):
I give them the encouragementto be recorded so that they feel
their best selves when they'reup there and thank you for my
TED Talk.
That's how it goes.
I wouldn't have learned that ifI wasn't a director.
I wouldn't even been exposed tothat if I wasn't doing like DEI
work at work and realizing, oh,I need to give back to the
(45:34):
community.
I'm doing all this me, me, mestuff.
I want to direct, I want towrite, I want to make a movie.
It's like hold on, I'm takingso much from LA.
Let me give something back fromLA.
I can volunteer my time.
I can help people who aregiving amazing talks to make the
world better, the communitybetter.
You know what I got you I'mgoing to help you practice your
(45:56):
talk and deliver somethingthat's going to impact the
community Three separate thingsthat all fuel me and empower my
creativity and business.
And all of that because it doescome back.
You know, I get to meet certainpeople in the city who are in
charge of permits.
Perhaps or maybe I go to adinner and I meet that financier
(46:18):
who's like I've been lookingfor caribbean content, i't find
it and I just have $100 millionwaiting to spend.
It's like you know what, guesswhat, and I know you now right.
So I know a platform.
It's like hey, caribbean folks,I can advertise for creators.
You see how we do it.
Purr, purr purr, purr and that'show we do it, that's how we
(46:42):
build the infrastructure andthat's how we make sure it's our
face on the screen, so thatit's not just a Bob Marley movie
, it's a a Ron Marvin movie, andwe don't know who Ron Marvin is
, but maybe him do something inJamaica that we need to
highlight.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
you know, I'm saying no, I mean, you are exactly
right.
So I started a new podcastcalled Reels and Rhythms with my
creative partner in crime,michaela, and really it was
Black Cake that propelled me tocreate it.
Anyway, we start Reels andRhythms and I have a list of
(47:18):
projects.
They have strong Caribbeancharacters, strong
Caribbeanibbean storylines,right, so it doesn't have to be
everything caribbean.
We.
We talk about shirley ralph onabbott elementary.
Her character is phenomenal,phenomenal, that's how we show
up our work yeah every time shetalks and parts like, why was
(47:42):
she reading the tree little pigsin jamaican, right?
But but we love it becausethat's what we do, right.
So so it's, it's those littlethings.
We we have a rating system onreels and rhythms and we, like,
as an audience, you know, wefocus a lot on accents and
accents are important.
But I can be more lenient withthe accent if there's a stronger
(48:06):
storyline and there's astronger character.
If it's just a walk-oncharacter and the dread, I say
Yaman, please get an authenticaccent right, do not come with a
fake thing, you know, likecause we're not going to get it
all and I and I, I've I've givenup that requirement to get it
all perfectly, but sometimesthere's a need to get it close
(48:28):
to right.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Just real quick to that point.
I remember when I wasauditioning heavily right, I
would go in and they're likethis is Jamaican part, we want
you to speak Potswana.
And you go in and you talkPotswana to them and I'm like,
can you say it a little moreamerican?
So you want me to talk likethis, like you know.
(48:51):
So I do have a level ofsympathy for some of the actors
because I know they get dialedback when you go in there you
talk patois for real.
They really do come back andsay, uh, let's soften that up a
little bit, but go ahead, I'msorry.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
No, but that's exactly why we came up with the
rating system Like is the patoisgood or good enough?
Right, and you know, let's behonest with ourselves, right,
there are levels of patois.
There's scales fromunderstandable to when, just say
(49:27):
, exactly, exactly, right, evenyou, as a Jamaican, say what?
In just say so, there, you know, there's a Shirley Ralph on
Abbott Elementary Patois, andthere is somebody who live
Chukwumukw Mako, you knowwherever, you know wherever and
I'm not disrespecting anybodyfrom those places in Jamaica,
I'm just I'm just calling a name, right, somebody from Moby,
(49:51):
right?
So Mikhail and I started Reelsand Rhythms because we recognize
that there are projects on TVthat people still didn't know
about.
You know, there's not enough,like you said, there's not
enough marketing.
So we talk about it.
We talk about it.
It's like a book club, but it'sTV.
We chat it in real life andjust give our commentary through
(50:15):
the lens of two Jamaican womenliving, you know, on the East
Coast.
What we like about it.
It, and even as two Jamaican,we're very different.
Michaela is, like you, bornhere.
I was born in Jamaica.
We're different ages, we, wehave different experiences and
those things are importantbecause when we look at the
ecosystem for everyone else.
(50:36):
They have all these otherthings.
Supporting these projects andwhen we looked out from a
Caribbean perspective, we don'thave that same ecosystem or
infrastructure.
Reels and Rhythms is inspiredby my love of TV documentary
watching, but also recognizingthat, just like how I can
(50:57):
produce podcasts, I can give myenergy to create this project to
support the infrastructure andthe ecosystem that you, the
creators, the directors, theactors, whatever need.
To get people talking aboutyour projects and everyone
thinks of viral, you have tostart somewhere.
Right, it's a word of mouththing, is a grassroots approach.
(51:18):
So I'm glad Joe listen.
We love chat and I feel like Ican talk to you.
So Mago done the conversationright here.
So because the people at Magosay like Oaz, really.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
It is a great conversation and let me just say
this like what you're doing, soimportant, the energy you bring
, you know, just to even reachout, to want to do this, it's
needed.
You just actually made the casefor your own podcast because
there's no one else doing itright.
There's no one doing it forcaribbean people.
(51:51):
So here you go rhythms andreels.
I said it right rhythms andrhythms of course I flip it.
True, jamaican, right, but thatshow, now you're in that slot
and now we have that.
We didn't have it before andnow we do so when we create
something.
I've known some of the, thepeople who've been on your
(52:12):
podcast.
You know how to do my research,but, yeah, you had some amazing
creators on your podcastalready.
So now when we make content, wecan hail you up and say, hey,
this is what's going on and itdoesn't have to just be a do a
favor thing.
It can be another line ofincome and business for you,
because you will I mean, if it'snot happening, I'll speak it
(52:36):
into existence advertising moneyis coming for you right.
Here come the dollars.
So when what you know, any ofthe airlines, any of the tourist
companies, they, they want tofind where people are gathered
of caribbean descent.
Now they have a platform.
It's your platform and so whenI'm creating now I say, oh, if I
want to reach my caribbeanpeople, then let me go talk to
(52:59):
carrie anne, let me put a 15second ad in her show, let me do
something, so you know I meanthat's how it goes, something
like talk to you.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Don't say we go off and end the conversation here.
So because we're the tacoyou're right.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
You're right, you're right.
So much, carrie Ann.
Thank you for having me.
I'm really glad I had thisconversation with you.
You're amazing, uh, journalistand interviewer.
You know I don't know with you.
You're amazing journalist andinterviewer.
You know, I don't know if youcall yourself a journalist, but
this is journalism, so yeahjournalist now.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, jo.
I'm going to make sure I putthe link to your website so
people can see what's going onand your social media handles
and all the things in the shownotes, because people need to be
following you, keeping up withyou and the other creators,
because we already hear, butthey're not so near come, yeah,
somebody's only a gully creepupon them.
(53:53):
I want to show up exactly, youknow, like bomb on a reach, like
what's going on.
So I, I, I, love it.
So, audience members, let metell you, you already know when
my vibe with somebody and catchsomething labrish galore.
So we're going to put a pinright here.
So JO going to come back whenhe have a project and ting and
(54:14):
ting.
And so JO, as I love to say atthe end of every episode walk
good.
Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode
of Carry On Friends, theCaribbean American Experience,
and I'm excited because thepre-recording conversation was
already exciting and fun, and soI'm excited to welcome JO to
the podcast.
Jo, how are you Welcome?
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, carrie-anne, thank you for that awesome
introduction.
You know, just happy to be heretalking with you.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I'm excited.
So why don't you tell thecommunity of friends a little
bit about who you are Caribbeancountry or countries you
represent and a little bit aboutthe work you do?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
generation born in Miami, florida.
You guys know how that goes Bigold family.
I'm the last one, but when theygot me they're like, okay,
we're staying.
So we all grew up in Miami, newYork and that kind of existence
.
But overall I'm a filmmaker,I'm a songwriter, content
creator.
I do all of those things.
If you've ever seen In LivingColor and you know the hey man
(01:07):
sketch, I am that person.
I've kind of lived up to thatmost of my life and other things
I do an entertainment industryprofessional.
Over 10 years experience,everything from music videos,
directing, writing above andbelow the line.
I just keep going.
(01:28):
You learn one thing and you'relike, all right, I see what you
guys got going on over here, butI want more and I just use my
ambition and just keep moving upthe ladder.
Currently I support thebusiness affairs attorneys for a
major streaming company andbasically we negotiate with the
writers and content partners forthe platform.
(01:49):
So that's like my day hustleand, like I said, a lot of jobs.
You know, I just keep going.
It's ambition.
This can be the interview ifyou keep letting me go.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Listen, just in that opening, right, you know like
you may have a full-time job.
You know the day hustle and wedo this.
And then you asked me if I wasa filmmaker.
You know, before we startedrecording, I'm like nah, but you
know, I feel like I coulddirect some stuff.
Just give me resource, I'm a,take a stab at it.
You know, it's the energy, it'sthe culture.
(02:22):
You're full of ambition and youjust want to try a thing if you
are interested in it.
So I already love that energy.
So we know that you know, manof many talents, you see
something, you're full ofambition.
What made you first decide thatyou wanted to get into
entertainment?
You wanted to direct, youwanted to do all this.
(02:43):
What was that first littlespark for you?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
okay, music was my entry point music and poetry.
My mother raised all this byherself when she got here.
But the memories I do have ofmy father he did the play a part
right Jamaica man love hismusic.
So we always had like bobplaying like core memories early
on.
Is bob marley could this belove?
(03:10):
Dancing with my dad, dancingwith my mom, my brothers and
sisters.
Um, that lit the spark formusic.
And then, uh, I'm a littleolder.
So michael jackson mohawklisten, there's not one jamaican
I come across that don't talkabout michael jackson.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Moonwalk, listen, there's not one jamaican.
I come across that don't talkabout michael jackson, because I
have a similar memory, like yousaid, a little older.
So 1988, after hurricanegilbert damages jamaica right,
my brother, my all, the fenceand everything blow down.
We get up and we're performingthe bad album to everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yes, yes, oh, the family performances that brings
like you perform for whoevercome over.
That's just the way we grew up.
It's so funny that youmentioned that part, but music
definitely lit the spark.
I'm always singing, even inschool, getting in trouble for
like hold on Tita.
I know the answer to that, butlet me do this little
(04:10):
performance in the middle.
You know just that kind ofenergy since I was a kid, just
how I've always been all right.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So the entry point was music.
I feel like I already feel theconnection because, as I said to
you, my husband's like how muchTV you love watch, which song,
don't you know?
Right, because you know, as Iwas saying earlier, as a girl,
you know, I can't roam and goabout business like he would.
(04:41):
As a boy growing up in Jamaica,and when I moved here, that was
the first time ever Iexperienced what it meant to be
a latchkey kid, because inJamaica your family live in the
district or the community.
Auntie live across the road,right, they're neighbors, so
you're never really alone.
And I grew up in what they calla multi-generational home,
(05:01):
because it's not just your mommyand you, it's mommy, grandma,
uncle, everybody live in the oneo's right.
So I was never home alone.
So when I came here, it wasexperiencing being a latchkey
kid.
So you either watch tv are we atad of watch tv, where you know
you play music?
Are we playing music again?
(05:23):
So I already feel like, yes,you're speaking my language.
So music was the entry point.
And then what was that firstscenario where you're like, oh,
I could do a little bit more.
What is that?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
School.
So in school, high school, justlooking for a class, for a
right, looking for something, soyou don't have to work so hard,
like, all right, I'm smart, Ican pass tests and all of that,
but I don't want to work so hard.
You know, teenage boy, I wantto do teenage boy things.
But uh, I take uh drama as anelective, just random.
(06:04):
And in the class, you know, Ihave a teacher, miss Santiago.
I still remember her name and Iwon't lie to you.
Very humble beginnings, likeit's not a rosy, I'm smiling and
I'm glossing over all thehardship, right, which I know
everyone is familiar with.
But get to high school.
(06:25):
I'm like working a full-timejob after school, overnight,
clean up, come to school inclass, so looking for easy
grades, so to speak.
I take drama, Miss Santiago, shesees something I do, a scene
from the hurricane with Denzel.
I don't know if you rememberthe scene where he's kind of
(06:47):
like battling demons.
He's in solitary confinementbattling demons and she gives me
a project and I do the projectand it touches something in her.
The class is like they see medifferently for the first time.
The class is like they see medifferently for the first time
(07:08):
and I just put a little asteriskby that moment because I'm like
, okay, this is something Icould do once I get the other
parts of my life kind of clearit up.
We're gonna circle back to thisbecause I think there's a
talent here and that's literallywhat I did.
Yeah, long journey, but that Idefinitely remember being in
drama class in high school andsaying, oh, I can do this and I
(07:28):
get a reaction from this thatit's good for both parties.
You know what I mean.
Some people get in for thewrong reasons.
They want other things.
But I felt good giving theperformance and the people who
received it felt touched by it,so it sparked something.
The performance and the peoplewho received it felt touched by
it, so it sparked something.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So from that moment to where you are now like I'm
sure there's a lot of ups anddowns, meanderings Did you
always work a full-time job andthen decided that you know, I'm
gonna do music on the side?
At what point did you actuallystart to actively work on this
thing while doing a full-timejob, and where did you find time
(08:11):
in the edges of your day tokind of do this?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I'm a firm believer in the 24-hour day, so there's
24 hours in a day.
You can't get more, you can'tget less.
So you really have to map itout.
Most of my life I go with theflow, you know.
Sometimes I can be on Caribbeanpeople time that's what my
friends call it.
But for the most part you know,I know where I need to be, what
(08:38):
I need to be doing.
I have a good blueprint, so tospeak, after college.
So you know the ambitious sideright.
You have to make sure themoney's right.
So you have to do the schooling.
You don't have to.
But I'm not a person whobelieves you have to put all the
eggs in one basket.
I think you can spread it andif you take your time and you're
(08:59):
intentional, you can get towhere you need to go.
So with my humble beginnings Iwasn't going to go more humble
beginnings.
I'm trying to get out of that.
So you know, went to college,got a business degree.
The one thing I should sayanother thing people might know
me from is Extreme Makeover.
(09:20):
So I was born with a cleftpalate and I got on the show to
Extreme Makeover.
They did my final surgery.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Right, right, right, but that is a game changer for
me, right?
So that's part of the thingsthat I said.
I have to wrap up certainthings in my life so that I can
move forward.
So I put a pin in the music, Iput a pin in the acting and I
got that part taken care of.
I got on that show and theybrought me to LA for the first
time.
So that's 2005.
(09:50):
So just for some context of howlong you know the journey goes.
So in 2005, I'm on this show.
It changes everything for me.
I couldn't have planned it thatway.
You know.
I'm on Larry King, I'm sittingnext to him in LA and you know,
(10:13):
just living it up, seeing howthey do things and then
realizing like, ok, are theygoing to let me in this industry
this way?
And at that time it was kind ofthe reality TV versus scripted
TV battle.
People were like why is thereso much reality TV on and all of
that kind of nonsense wherereally it's just entertainment?
But I did have to start over.
(10:36):
I had to go back to actingclasses, I had to learn how to
act, I had to learn how toaudition, I had to learn how to
screenwrite and all of thatthing.
So when I got out here afterthe show and I'm trying to get
in the industry, I'm all green,going to auditions and I clearly
see I'm not up to snuff.
I'm not on the level of thesepeople.
They're killing it.
Let's go back to the lab.
(10:57):
So around 2009-ish 2008, I getreally serious about being in
the entertainment business.
I put songs on TV shows.
In the meantime, I workedaccounting contract jobs, I did
background work, I did work.
I worked the events.
(11:20):
You get in where you fit in.
That really is the model.
You go around you high-fivepeople, you make them feel good
about themselves.
You learn your craft, you honeyour craft.
It takes so long to figure outwhat you want to say.
Right, forget just making ashow.
Like why do you want to make ashow?
(11:41):
What do you want to tell people?
You know I'm not a ego-drivenperson, so I really had to sit
down with myself like what am Itrying to express?
What do I want people to leavewith when they watch something I
make?
How do I want them to feel?
You know, is it just aboutmoney?
Is it about women or the otherthings?
(12:02):
Like, know, those are allthings that get you off track.
It's really easy to get caughtup in the drugs, the lifestyle
you know, and I didn't want thatto be what my career was about.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
All right.
So, jo, what you just saidresonated with me, particularly
the part on how long it takes,because I feel like, personally,
right, but I don't give a shit.
Lots of people out Sometimesthey feel like yo, I don't give
a shit.
Lots of people sometimes theyfeel like yo, this is taking
forever.
And sometimes you feel like, amI doing something wrong?
But it's the process, right,it's, it's just like you said,
(12:35):
like you have to try a thing.
You see that you're not up tosnuff.
You have to take away yourself,as we say, and go back to the
drawing board.
And let's just be honest, theprocess just does take long.
It just feels like it's shorterfor other people because we're
seeing the top of their iceberg,but we don't understand how
(12:56):
long it really takes.
So you know, you just reallygave a really quick timeline
from when that spark first came,going out to LA, then deciding
to okay, let me try a few things.
And then, in the trying the fewthings, knowing that I'm still
(13:18):
not even anywhere where I needto be.
I think that's where thefrustration is right.
All right, you're learningdifferent angle of the business.
You work on events, you do thejobs, you understand the
contracts them of that on theside, you know.
But there are moments in in myday I'm not speaking about you,
so if you relate to this, youknow you find yourself doing a
(13:39):
little bit of that.
And then there's moments in theday I say, all right, I'll do
all of that, but you're still alook down upon the runway and
it's way out there and if Idon't catch myself quick I can
get lost in feeling hopeless,like not hopeless, they're just
like I know what you mean Downtrotting.
(13:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like yo, I'll do all of that.
I'm right here, so I'm going.
She's like yo, I'm going to doall of that.
I'm going to write here, so I'mgoing to look, like, look, how
much further it is to go, and itcan be easy to give up in those
moments.
So how do you handle thosemoments where you're just like
I've been doing all this work Iknow there's more to do, but I'm
nowhere where I need to be?
(14:20):
Like how do you handle those?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And then we'll go back to your story need to be
like, how do you handle those?
And then we'll go back to yourstory.
I'll say the my youth preparedme for this.
Like, to me, this is nothingright, because I don't mean
nothing like, like it doesn'tmatter, but it's in comparison
to what we had to endure to gethere, this isn't what matters.
What matters is you, us havingthis conversation, conversation
(14:43):
your family, your loved ones.
I mean, the pandemic kind ofshowed us what's important.
But I am a firm believer thatstorytelling is one of the most
important things to the humanexperience.
That's how we learn, that's howwe grow, that's how we honor
the past, that's how wecommemorate things that we
(15:05):
should keep going forwardtraditions, all of those things.
So that's what drove me,because you can't go through
something and then forget itwhen you come up against
something that's similar.
If I dealt with it at 15, whenI'm 25, it's going to be a
25-year-old version of it, butI've seen it before.
(15:26):
So keep it calm, keep thecomposure and then navigate
accordingly.
And it's the same way.
This industry has so many, somany alleys.
You know, sometimes dead ends.
You can get on the show, theshow get canceled.
You write something.
You write five things.
Nobody wants any of the five.
(15:46):
You're about to move back homeand then six years later
somebody calls you like, hey,you know that thing you wrote,
we want to do it, and now yourlife changed.
So it's almost like playing alottery, but it's a lottery that
you know you can win.
It's a lottery, you know, if Ikeep going this route, if I keep
(16:08):
putting in work, if I keepdoing my due diligence, it's
going to work out and that's howmy life has gone.
So that's the faith I kind of Ikeep with.
You're not doing what you'resupposed to do, you're rolling
the dice, but if you're doingwhat you need to be doing, you
intentional about it.
My wife says it to me from timeto time.
She's like you always land onyour feet.
(16:28):
I say to the people in my, inmy circle you always land on
your feet because you will, weyou know how many times have you
, you suffered a setback in yourlife?
So up to this date you won.
Everyone you know I mean.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, I love that you said that, if you're doing what
you're supposed to do, becausethe distraction comes right,
because you feel like what I'mdoing now works, so let see
something, you get distracted,right, that's a setback in a way
(17:11):
, because it's going to take youon a different journey.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So you make a left when you could have went
straight.
Now you gotta go the left routeand you do have to go the whole
route till you come back.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So exactly, exactly that.
Um man, um yeah, I'm, I'm, Ifeel like man.
You're going to hold a reasonand you know let's move off from
that.
But I do want to just put a pinin that point.
Like a lot of times what we'redoing feels monotonous, it's not
getting us anywhere, but it isthe path right.
(17:44):
And if we look like in aprevious episode I said to a
friend, don't go you saying canI run?
I look right, I still win Right, that's not us.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Everybody can't do that.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Everybody can't do that Right.
So look straight, run yourwrist, run through the tip, lean
at the finish line and you know, and then do your dance Exactly
.
Right.
So one of the reasons that Iwanted to have this conversation
with you, as I started before,I feel like the industry you're
(18:21):
in media and entertainment isone of the last frontiers for us
as people of Caribbean heritage, us as Jamaicans and then
broadly, people of Caribbeanheritage People already are top
boat with food jerk chicken.
You know they're taught aboutoxtails.
You know our music has takenover or dances have taken over,
and so I feel like media andentertainment seeing ourselves
(18:43):
on the small screen and bigscreen more is like the last
frontier for us in terms oftakeover.
I didn't want to say takeover,but you know what I mean with
takeover.
Right, because the talent isthere, the stories we can't run
out of stories.
It's in abundance.
Right, it's never ending Animmigration story.
(19:08):
For me, coming to Brooklyn isdifferent for your mom going to
Miami, different from someonegoing to California, texas,
right, it's a similar experience, but the stories are different.
Right, ask about what yourthoughts are on where the future
is for us on that, because youknow, if you're following the
(19:31):
news, you know platforms arebeing acquired, businesses are
being sold, you just said it.
You know shows are beingcanceled, things aren't being
picked up and, to your point,there are other people better
than you out there, right, andso it's not as easy.
You know, I had a previousepisode where someone was just
(19:54):
like they're not just hiringCaribbean people for roles, you
know.
And if you're not part of theunion, that's another hurdle
that's going to impact you andall that.
So, from where you sit, fromyour, your experience, what are
your thoughts on this whole lastfrontier, like star trek?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I have a lot of thoughts on this.
Right, I'm ready for all thosethoughts bring it so I do a
little consulting on the sideand, um, this is something I run
into a lot because people watchtv and they instantly it.
It's human nature.
You see somebody on TV, ifsomeone kind of looks like you
or maybe you just love the story, you say I can do that, and you
(20:34):
can.
For a long time they kind ofdidn't let us behind the curtain
to see what the wizard is up to.
You know from the Wizard of Oz,what's the wizard doing back
there?
But I think the first thing toget in this industry, this
business, from what I see, a lotof people don't understand how
it works.
And what I mean by that is whenyou say business, why am I
(20:56):
talking about art?
Because art is life, right,that's music, dancing, all the
things you said.
That's art, culture is art.
That's part of who you are as ahuman.
But when you add the wordbusiness to it and you say movie
business, music business,television business, all of that
stuff, that means money isinvolved.
And if you don't know how theymake money and when I say they I
(21:22):
mean the businesses If youdon't understand how the
businesses make money, then youwon't know where to get in.
It's like double-dutch, rightLike the rope, then you won't
know where to get in.
It's like double-dutch, rightLike the rope I go.
You got to know where you getin, because if you don't know
how, then what are we doing?
So first thing I would say isthat understanding that
advertising, marketing orsubscriptions is how they make
(21:43):
most of their money.
It doesn't matter if it's analbum.
If you're listening to theradio, it's not about your music
, it's about the commercials onthe radio.
If you're watching TV, if yousee a commercial in between your
shows, which all of them havead tiers now, so you understand.
That's how they make money.
I'm sure you've been readingthe trade so you know
subscriptions right.
Netflix has how manysubscriptions, hulu has how many
(22:06):
subscriptions.
That's how they make theirmoney.
So that's the actual dollartransaction.
So that's one thing If you wantto be in this business,
understand where the money ismade and who the players are
coordinating that money dance,so to speak.
The second thing I would say isunderstanding the audience
(22:26):
versus the customer.
So that's two separate peoplethat you have to make happy,
because when they put Caribbeanpeople on shows and they talk
with that terrible Patois and weall know like yo, that's not a
Jamaican accent.
You start Googling them, you'relike, are they even Jamaican?
(22:46):
And you find out they're fromlike some other country that has
no affiliation.
But their, their skin is brownor black and they put them on
the movie.
But you hear them talking likethat's not how my country talks,
that's not how we act.
You know, you see it on screenand you know instantly.
So understanding your audiencewould say Jamaicans don't like
when you don't have a Jamaicanperson speaking Patois or you
(23:09):
know a Trini person or whateverisland that they're representing
, if you're not representing aproperty, because we're not all
one very similar, but not allone.
So that's understanding youraudience.
So that's on the creative side.
But on the other side of thatis understanding your customer.
But on the other side of thatis understanding your customer.
You have to make sure that thenetwork, that the sponsors, that
(23:33):
the studios, the advertisersare happy too.
So you have to tell an authenticstory that they want to share
with the masses, which is whyit's so difficult to be
mainstream.
That's the main conundrum wheredo you want to be mainstream?
Or do you want to have your ownthing?
Because we can have our ownthing, we can enjoy it, and then
(23:56):
they're going to be lookingover and like what you guys
doing over there.
You know what I mean.
Or, if you try to be mainstream, you know it's not going to
have all the seasoning andflavors that you're used to or
that you like.
Which one do you want?
Which one makes the most sensefor you as a creative, for you
as a professional and, in yourheart, like do you want to talk
to your people or do you want totalk to all the people?
(24:17):
You know it's a choice.
It's a decision that everycreative or every filmmaker or
anyone in this industry has tomake.
Do you want to work with thebig players or do you want to
build something from the groundup.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Both sides are needed and it's not a one trick pony
Like you need all of it to kindof come together.
I love that you wrote that down.
That is so important and Ithink the part that I asked
someone else in a previousepisode was okay.
We understand the networks, weunderstand the big players when
it gets confusing and I wastelling somebody must have last
week what does independent looklike?
(24:56):
Is it these free platforms?
And we just call them name, youknow, is it a Roku channel?
Is it a one on the, you know,pluto?
Whatever all these things are,I don't know.
I'm not endorsing one over theother.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
All they do is?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
it just creates options.
It creates so many options thatthere's inertia, because I'm
just like I'm going to knowwhich one for what.
So you default to what'sfamiliar or comfortable and then
remember, I like to watch TV.
So, I have more streamingplatforms than my friends yeah.
Like I have all the things right.
(25:35):
Some people are like I'm onlypaying for this Right, so let's
talk about that independent side, like what are the challenges
there?
Cause it seems like that is theway that most people are going,
because the majors are harderto get onto.
But I also feel like there's astruggle with these streaming
(25:56):
platforms, because there are somany, and which one is going to
get me the most views for myproject.
So let me know your thoughts onthat one for my project.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So let me know your thoughts on that one.
That's actually where my heartlies.
I am very much a DIYdo-it-yourself person.
I love the independency.
That's where I got my start.
I worked at a small independentproduction company called Black
and Sexy TV for a long time andin that process I got to, you
know, a front row seat of how itis, you know.
(26:30):
That's why I said that youstart your own thing and they're
going to look over the fenceand be like what they got going
on over there?
What am I going on with?
You know they're watching youand if it gets popular, that's
when they send the invitationhey, come to our party, come
talk, let's talk about thingsand they see how they could
collaborate.
So there's to our party, cometalk, let's talk about things,
and they see how they couldcollaborate.
So there's really no wayoutside of that.
(26:52):
You have to go.
When we added business, we addedmoney.
When you say art, it's just art.
When you say business now, youhave to see where the money is.
And so the players who arecourting you, so to speak, you
bring your talent, your audience, your viewership, and they
bring their finance and theirknowledge in that area and
(27:12):
that's where the collaborationand partnership happens.
There's no short answer forbuilding up your brand.
Get a good idea, you start thatprocess, you start putting it
out, you get a regular cadence,you get word of mouth as the
(27:35):
money starts to trickle in.
You do ads, whether it's onsocial media or radio
commercials, just like everybodyelse in business newspapers.
You do have to be creative,right, because you don't have as
much resources as the biggercompanies, but it's the same
process.
You get the word out, you knockon people's door, you call them
, you text them, you text yourgranny if you need to, whoever
(27:56):
can help you tell somebody else.
You know, I know about whatsapp, my aunt and everyone from the
island.
I haven't been to the island inso long and yet I know
everything.
I feel like that's going on.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So I feel like them boss, the auntie them and the
grandma them on the whatsapp.
And I remember when I just comeAmerica, how am I going to talk
to my grandmother in Jamaicaafter right?
And then they came out withphone card, call them card, call
(28:29):
them back.
You know, go scratch right.
And then they came out with thecheap phone cards yeah, $5, $3,
$1 card.
And so you know we see theevolution of the technology.
So them in Jamaica can justWhatsApp and then can call me
WhatsApp and it's not, it's themcredits, it's the extra money
(28:52):
or whatever.
So it makes the communicationjust faster and to see them just
.
I mean sometimes it's purechain mail them a forward.
But I'm glad for them to learnto use the technology.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Use the technology, exactly Right.
Those chain letters, exactlyRight.
Those 10 letters, don't stop.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Like, who is forwarding all of these things
to you?
Like, oh, you get it, oh why?
But here we are telling a storywithin this conversation.
So I do get that theindependent portion is the most
viable portion for especiallyCaribbean creators.
Right, I think.
(29:32):
As a consumer, a lot of timesit feels like I don't see where
these platforms are.
Right, the marketing.
So in terms of awareness forthe audience, right, you just
told us about the audience andthe consumer.
What more can the platforms doto reach an audience?
What are the opportunities toconnect with the audience?
(29:54):
What are you seeing?
Because I really feel like itmight feel like you reach the
audience, but it's just a smallsegment of the audience that
you're reaching.
So curious to hear yourthoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You know, that's the lesson I learned, where I
realized ambition is not goingto get it all done Right.
So I told you early on, Irealized I wasn't enough to
snuff, tighten up my belt, wentto classes, got trained, got
right, get all the work to honethe craft, and then realize,
(30:26):
like you know the old saying,it's not what you know, it's who
you know you're like.
Oh, another, another obstacle,right?
So in that I realized you dohave to show up for people.
You do have to.
If you're creating, you have tofind out who else is creating.
If you're exhibiting your ownfilm at a festival, what other
(30:49):
films are in that festival?
Meet those directors, meetthose producers, meet those
marketers right?
Who's hot right now?
Who's popping?
Who you see on Instagram goingviral?
Who are these people?
You got to get in them DMs.
You have to go to theirbirthday party like their photos
.
You really have to supportother people.
(31:11):
That's really what I'm gettingat, if I put it in a nutshell
you know what this feels likeand it's the same concept.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know, like I've never been a party promoter, but
you know how dance go in ourcommunity.
Somebody, I keep a dance, youhave a show for the dance.
Like I you know, say, a couplemonths down the road you're
gonna keep your dance and youwant people come out here and
I'll say you want your dance alot.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So it's the same process same, and because I've
worked in so many industries andI've been around a little bit,
you start realizing oh, that'swhat Einstein meant.
Right, it's all relative.
So just because it's over there, it's transferable.
The skills are transferable,the methods are transferable.
(31:55):
I said, when you add business,it kind of makes it so you know
how it's going to go.
You know what to expect.
There's always going to beunexpected things, but once you
know what you're dealing with,you can kind of navigate around
it.
It's like what's the saying?
You have to know the rules tobreak them.
So I had to learn how to actbefore I could even start
(32:18):
talking about.
Oh yeah, I'm an actor.
It's like I learned how to act.
I learned how to conduct myselfon the set, who the players are
.
It's like okay, you want tolevel up?
Who are the networks?
Who's paying for all of this?
Learn that, okay.
Who are the movers and shakers?
Oh yeah, I need to go talk toyou.
This is what I have going onover here.
(32:38):
I made this show, or I knowthis actor and he has my script
and he wants to be in it.
You have 20 grand.
Okay, cool, cool.
If you give me that 20 grand, Igive you 20 or 120 on it, or.
And then we'll go talk to thisnetwork it's the unity tree,
right?
We all hold hands and we walkinto the office and we say, hey,
(32:58):
we have millennials, women, uh,black, caribbean descent, they
make Caribbean descent, theymake 80 to 120K a year and they
like single camera comedies.
You know, and this is what wemake and this is our pitch deck,
this is our show and we know itwill do this, this, this and
(33:23):
this.
So now, whatever business thatyou're pitching to or network
and say, okay, I like that, Iwant to buy ad time on your
website, I want to buy ad time.
Or I want your actor to promotemy product on his Instagram
these are the ways that youstart getting the money in so
that you can build it.
(33:43):
And it's like I'll give you 40K.
So now the 20K from my newpartner, my friend I met at the
dance.
He said or at the party that's20K, that'll pay for the script.
Then I go to the marketer orthe business and they said
they'll give me 40 grand if Ihave the actor, because they
like the actor, they're up andcoming, if they do three posts a
(34:05):
week for six months, they'llgive me 40k.
I get the 40k.
Now I have 60 and I still havethe same script.
But you see how the moneystarted coming in.
Maybe I want to use the artistmusic, like, hey, I don't have
money now, but at the end, oncewe sell the tickets, I got you.
Okay, I'll do the score andscore, and they call it in kind.
(34:28):
So now I get free music in mything, so I don't have to worry
about that cost.
So now my budget stays low.
You know what I mean?
These are just tricks andtricks.
I'm spitballing here, so don'thold me to these numbers.
But you kind of see how it goes, right, you make the friends.
You see who's doing what.
How can I help you?
(34:49):
How can you help me?
What is my goal?
What's your goal?
Ok, we have this syncopationthere.
Ok, that's cool.
Let's, let's make more money onthis.
And then when the movie comesout, everyone eats, everyone's
happy.
You know, hopefully it's a badmovie.
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
We'll do better next time yes, and, and those things
happen and I think to that point, you know, black creators,
caribbean creators, we're notgiven the same grace to make a
movie that bombs right, you knoweverything out the gate have to
, you know, shot, which isunfair because there's so much
(35:30):
more mediocre projectMenangokalo name, but anyway, no
.
But I mean, I mean they'reallowed to make movies about
nothing and things that make nosense and we aren't given the
same grace.
That's just kind of what I'mI'm seeing.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
So and that is the who you know portion, right,
because they know or they have,they've known it.
Maybe it's like a nephew, youknow we call them nepho babies,
right?
Like yeah, babies, right likeyeah, yep, you're gonna let your
nephew make a movie if you, ifyou have that, if you have that
ability to now, if it's a badmovie, now you know you can't
make no more, but we have to bein that position, yeah, and
(36:12):
we're getting there, but it'syou're.
You're so right, they don'tgive us opportunities and you
can't make a bad step.
So the pressure is always thereand that's really what kind of
inhibits us, because we don'twant to fail.
We know we're doing it foreveryone behind us and if it's
bad, it's going to take anotherthree years, five years, ten
(36:32):
years for them to get anothershot.
So, yeah, you're so right withthat.
You do have to make it count,but that's how that's our life.
Unfortunately, we don't havethe the ability to fail.
Like we know, everything counts.
We know we have to do it forourselves, for our parents and
(36:52):
for our children yeah,absolutely there's no way around
it yeah, it is exactly thatright is sure.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
It's them saying sure , yeah for sure, this is right,
and and that in itself creates alevel of pressure for the
creator and their project.
All right, so let's talk aboutsome of the projects that you've
worked on and tell the audiencea little bit more about your
portfolio of work.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Where to start the first major things I did.
Back in the day MTV had a showcalled Real World Road Rules.
Getting to LA, I told you musicwas the first love.
So I figured out how.
Maybe I didn't want to be anartist, a recording artist, but
I love music and I love makingsongs.
(37:42):
Maybe I didn't want to be anartist, a recording artist, but
I love music and I love makingsongs.
So I learned about musiclicensing and I put music on
those shows early on.
So Real World and Roll Rules Igave them a beat CD, myself and
friends.
Here you go and all of thosetimes you're watching TV shows
and you hear the little you knowwhat.
I mean the little, whateversong you like, what song is that
?
You don't know what song it is,but somebody made that and I
(38:06):
was one of those people who usedto make those songs.
That's how I kind of got thebug and I realized, oh, you can
just send an email.
You can just send.
Yeah, I mean, it's so simple,but they make it so hard, the
barrier to entry, because wedon't know.
(38:27):
After those shows I did a lot oflike, uh, acting background
work, all types of comedy, I didimprov.
I worked with a group calledgiven still for a long time and
we would do entrepreneur, right.
So we would do live shows, uh,live comedy shows.
I'd have a comedian do stand-updancers come, yeah, and just
make it a whole event, right,you spend $20 and you just hang
(38:49):
out, kind of like a live wildingout situation.
And then from there, black inSex and TV I found them Before
that it wasn't so many Blackpeople, but I found the Black
people in LAA who were makingcontent.
I'm like let's go.
And they were working with IssaRae and please forgive me name
(39:10):
dropping, but you know, leanaway, they were there Numa
Perrier Numa is also she's aco-founder with Dennis of Black
and Sexy TV.
I did sound for them, I wastheir PA, I worked my way up, I
became a writer on their webseries.
Some of their popular onesRoomie, lover, friends, chef,
(39:32):
julian, hello, cupid, the NumberReboot yeah, those were like
some of their hit web series.
And from there they gave me myown.
Well, I should say I createdone and then we talked and I
built up that, that equity withthem.
Right, they know me, we havethe relationship and I created a
hit for them called rider,which was about a ride share
(39:55):
driver in la back.
When lyft and uber first started, everyone thought you were
weird for letting someone inyour car.
And the first I want to say thefirst week I'm driving and some
woman she's like I have to getout the car and her baby's with
(40:16):
her and she's like can you watchmy baby?
I was like what Like?
And I was like what like?
What you mean, can I watch yourbaby?
So, me being adventurous, I'mlike, okay, let's see how this
plays out, because I'm about tocall.
I'm about to call childservices I was about to say
(40:36):
adventurous you're living on theedge jail for real, for real,
definitely.
In that moment it was one ofthose.
You know, you have someone inyour car, a stranger.
They're like do I help thiswoman or do I just turn away and
say, get out of here, crazylady, I'm not watching your baby
?
I decided to watch the baby andthat day I went to a friend's
(40:56):
house, ricardo, who co-createdthe show with me.
Hey, we have a show to make,because my life as a driver is
bananas.
And from there that took off andthat just spiraled into other
things as I became a directorand writer.
And then recently I directed afilm called Green Trip short
(41:20):
film.
It won a bunch of awards, soit's really just a progression.
Right, I started as an actor,or really as a songwriter, and
then you know what?
Songwriting is cool, but I loveTV.
Let me act.
Started acting, realized thatdoing all these auditions isn't
for me, right, I don't know thepeople.
It's 10 black men.
(41:40):
We all kind of look alike.
The most popular one wins.
Fine, I understand that.
But I also know how to work apen.
Let me write my own thing,wrote my own show.
I'm the lead, I'm the star.
Hey, hello Hollywood, I'm here.
And that takes off.
It gets on BET.
They air certain episodes thatI'm in or that I've written, and
(42:03):
then you just keep going uplike, oh, writers don't have all
the power that I need to dothings, let me produce.
Producers are cool, but I wantto control.
You know what I wish?
They zoomed in right therebecause that Carrie Ann just
looks so good in the camera.
I need to get a close up ofthat.
You know that's the director'smind, so I took it there and now
(42:24):
it's like oh, executive, who'smaking the decisions on what
shows?
Because we don't have enoughblack or caribbean people.
So guess what?
Let go, let's go listen.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I you're talking my language because I'm I'm like
I'm the one sitting there, so Icould do that direction.
I feel like I could do that.
Maybe it's my armchair TVwatching, but I just love the
story that you're telling and Ialso want to call out something
that I've always said my sidehustle.
(42:57):
It feeds the full-time job, andthe full-time job feeds the
side hustle because you'relearning skills from these
different areas and it is.
You know, I'm not knockinganyone who doesn't have a
full-time job or prefers to dothat, but I want people to lean
(43:18):
in and say there are things thatyou're learning at your
full-time job that is veryimportant knowledge for you to
have, or and it's valuable tosomeone else you just have to
find the right person.
It's valuable too.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
It's so true.
I'm so glad you said that,because that is something I get
grief for, right, it's like aworkaholic you're doing too much
and you know I said Jamaican,another job.
They come for me all the timewith that, but I'm one person
and the experience I get from myday job or the things I'm
(43:51):
exposed to in my day job, theyhelp my other endeavors.
Like, rich people have a lot ofdiverse income streams so you
can't look at it.
I mean, if you're focused onthe money, you can't just look
at your job and say, oh, that'sall I do, like I said that's 24
hours in a day.
I told you all these things Ido creatively, but right now,
(44:16):
are you familiar with TED Talks?
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
So I'm a speaker coach for TEDx Inglewood, which
is a city in Los Angeles, andit's the skills of directing
right.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
When I'm done JO is going to be my manager, producer
and director, because JO overhere doing the most, but I like
it.
Jo said resume long, likelonger than the Ten Commandments
.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
But it's true, though the skills I learned as a
director.
I have to work with actors.
I have to make them feelcomfortable, help them memorize
their lines.
Now I'm a speaker coach forpeople doing TED Talks right, I
get to help them expressthemselves on that stage in a
clear, concise way, learn theirdialogue that they wrote.
(45:14):
I give them the encouragementto be recorded so that they feel
their best selves when they'reup there and thank you for my
TED Talk.
That's how it goes.
I wouldn't have learned that ifI wasn't a director.
I wouldn't even been exposed tothat if I wasn't doing like DEI
work at work and realizing, oh,I need to give back to the
(45:34):
community.
I'm doing all this me, me, mestuff.
I want to direct, I want towrite, I want to make a movie.
It's like hold on, I'm takingso much from LA.
Let me give something back fromLA.
I can volunteer my time.
I can help people who aregiving amazing talks to make the
world better, the communitybetter.
You know what I got you I'mgoing to help you practice your
(45:56):
talk and deliver somethingthat's going to impact the
community Three separate thingsthat all fuel me and empower my
creativity and business.
And all of that because it doescome back.
You know, I get to meet certainpeople in the city who are in
charge of permits.
Perhaps or maybe I go to adinner and I meet that financier
(46:18):
who's like I've been lookingfor caribbean content, i't find
it and I just have $100 millionwaiting to spend.
It's like you know what, guesswhat, and I know you now right.
So I know a platform.
It's like hey, caribbean folks,I can advertise for creators.
You see how we do it.
Purr, purr purr, purr and that'show we do it, that's how we
(46:42):
build the infrastructure andthat's how we make sure it's our
face on the screen, so thatit's not just a Bob Marley movie
, it's a a Ron Marvin movie, andwe don't know who Ron Marvin is
, but maybe him do something inJamaica that we need to
highlight.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
you know, I'm saying no, I mean, you are exactly
right.
So I started a new podcastcalled Reels and Rhythms with my
creative partner in crime,michaela, and really it was
Black Cake that propelled me tocreate it.
Anyway, we start Reels andRhythms and I have a list of
(47:18):
projects.
They have strong Caribbeancharacters, strong
Caribbeanibbean storylines,right, so it doesn't have to be
everything caribbean.
We.
We talk about shirley ralph onabbott elementary.
Her character is phenomenal,phenomenal, that's how we show
up our work yeah every time shetalks and parts like, why was
(47:42):
she reading the tree little pigsin jamaican, right?
But but we love it becausethat's what we do, right.
So so it's, it's those littlethings.
We we have a rating system onreels and rhythms and we, like,
as an audience, you know, wefocus a lot on accents and
accents are important.
But I can be more lenient withthe accent if there's a stronger
(48:06):
storyline and there's astronger character.
If it's just a walk-oncharacter and the dread, I say
Yaman, please get an authenticaccent right, do not come with a
fake thing, you know, likecause we're not going to get it
all and I and I, I've I've givenup that requirement to get it
all perfectly, but sometimesthere's a need to get it close
(48:28):
to right.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Just real quick to that point.
I remember when I wasauditioning heavily right, I
would go in and they're likethis is Jamaican part, we want
you to speak Potswana.
And you go in and you talkPotswana to them and I'm like,
can you say it a little moreamerican?
So you want me to talk likethis, like you know.
(48:51):
So I do have a level ofsympathy for some of the actors
because I know they get dialedback when you go in there you
talk patois for real.
They really do come back andsay, uh, let's soften that up a
little bit, but go ahead, I'msorry.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
No, but that's exactly why we came up with the
rating system Like is the patoisgood or good enough?
Right, and you know, let's behonest with ourselves, right,
there are levels of patois.
There's scales fromunderstandable to when, just say
(49:27):
, exactly, exactly, right, evenyou, as a Jamaican, say what?
In just say so, there, you know, there's a Shirley Ralph on
Abbott Elementary Patois, andthere is somebody who live
Chukwumukw Mako, you knowwherever, you know wherever and
I'm not disrespecting anybodyfrom those places in Jamaica,
I'm just I'm just calling a name, right, somebody from Moby,
(49:51):
right?
So Mikhail and I started Reelsand Rhythms because we recognize
that there are projects on TVthat people still didn't know
about.
You know, there's not enough,like you said, there's not
enough marketing.
So we talk about it.
We talk about it.
It's like a book club, but it'sTV.
We chat it in real life andjust give our commentary through
(50:15):
the lens of two Jamaican womenliving, you know, on the East
Coast.
What we like about it.
It, and even as two Jamaican,we're very different.
Michaela is, like you, bornhere.
I was born in Jamaica.
We're different ages, we, wehave different experiences and
those things are importantbecause when we look at the
ecosystem for everyone else.
(50:36):
They have all these otherthings.
Supporting these projects andwhen we looked out from a
Caribbean perspective, we don'thave that same ecosystem or
infrastructure.
Reels and Rhythms is inspiredby my love of TV documentary
watching, but also recognizingthat, just like how I can
(50:57):
produce podcasts, I can give myenergy to create this project to
support the infrastructure andthe ecosystem that you, the
creators, the directors, theactors, whatever need.
To get people talking aboutyour projects and everyone
thinks of viral, you have tostart somewhere.
Right, it's a word of mouththing, is a grassroots approach.
(51:18):
So I'm glad Joe listen.
We love chat and I feel like Ican talk to you.
So Mago done the conversationright here.
So because the people at Magosay like Oaz, really.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
It is a great conversation and let me just say
this like what you're doing, soimportant, the energy you bring
, you know, just to even reachout, to want to do this, it's
needed.
You just actually made the casefor your own podcast because
there's no one else doing itright.
There's no one doing it forcaribbean people.
(51:51):
So here you go rhythms andreels.
I said it right rhythms andrhythms of course I flip it.
True, jamaican, right, but thatshow, now you're in that slot
and now we have that.
We didn't have it before andnow we do so when we create
something.
I've known some of the, thepeople who've been on your
(52:12):
podcast.
You know how to do my research,but, yeah, you had some amazing
creators on your podcastalready.
So now when we make content, wecan hail you up and say, hey,
this is what's going on and itdoesn't have to just be a do a
favor thing.
It can be another line ofincome and business for you,
because you will I mean, if it'snot happening, I'll speak it
(52:36):
into existence advertising moneyis coming for you right.
Here come the dollars.
So when what you know, any ofthe airlines, any of the tourist
companies, they, they want tofind where people are gathered
of caribbean descent.
Now they have a platform.
It's your platform and so whenI'm creating now I say, oh, if I
want to reach my caribbeanpeople, then let me go talk to
(52:59):
carrie anne, let me put a 15second ad in her show, let me do
something, so you know I meanthat's how it goes, something
like talk to you.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Don't say we go off and end the conversation here.
So because we're the tacoyou're right.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
You're right, you're right.
So much, carrie Ann.
Thank you for having me.
I'm really glad I had thisconversation with you.
You're amazing, uh, journalistand interviewer.
You know I don't know with you.
You're amazing journalist andinterviewer.
You know, I don't know if youcall yourself a journalist, but
this is journalism, so yeahjournalist now.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Thank you so much.
Thank you, jo.
I'm going to make sure I putthe link to your website so
people can see what's going onand your social media handles
and all the things in the shownotes, because people need to be
following you, keeping up withyou and the other creators,
because we already hear, butthey're not so near come, yeah,
somebody's only a gully creepupon them.
(53:53):
I want to show up exactly, youknow, like bomb on a reach, like
what's going on.
So I, I, I, love it.
So, audience members, let metell you, you already know when
my vibe with somebody and catchsomething labrish galore.
So we're going to put a pinright here.
So JO going to come back whenhe have a project and ting and
(54:14):
ting.
And so JO, as I love to say atthe end of every episode walk
good.
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