April 1, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, I’m taking a moment to reflect on the powerful conversations had on the podcast so far this year—with the team behind Sugar Dumplin’, Natalie Bennett, Diana McCaulay, and Malene Barnett. What started as individual interviews became something more—more clear and focused themes around cultural preservation, identity navigation, and evolving expressions of Caribbean-ness.
I explore how these episodes other others from the podcast's catalog, show how storytelling, art, legacy, and even everyday conversations with our elders become vital acts of preservation. I also reflect on how my own relationship with Jamaican culture has evolved over the years, especially as a parent, and how we make room for both tradition and change.
This episode is a love letter to 10 years of Carry On Friends, but more importantly, it’s an invitation to explore where we’re headed next—together
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of
Carry On Friends.
I'm your host, carrie-anne, andI'm excited about doing this
solo episode with you.
Today I'm reflecting on theepisodes that have come out so
far this year with some of ourguests.
I've had the privilege ofspeaking with the team behind
(00:25):
the short film Sugar Dumpling,starring the legendary Jamaican
actor Oliver Samuels, and thatteam includes Tristan Barracks,
danisha Prendegast, and then,after that, I had a conversation
with Natalie Bennett.
Natalie Bennett, then DianaMcCauley and, most recently,
(00:46):
Malaney Barnett.
As I reflected on theseconversations, I noticed
powerful patterns connectingtheir experiences threads about
identity preservation,representation and how we
navigate our Caribbean-ness,jamaican-ness, whatever other
(01:07):
Caribbean country you representacross different places, spaces
and life stages.
I mean, when I think about it,it was a life stage that got me
to start Carry On Friends.
Today I want to weave thesethreads together.
Think of this episode as acelebration of the last 10 years
(01:29):
, with a focus on these recentconversations, and I'm inviting
you to a deeper understanding ofour shared journey.
So the first observation is thepattern of cultural
preservation.
So, sugar Dumpling Tristan,danisha, michaela and I we were
(01:52):
having a discussion about thefilm, which addresses memory
loss, because that is alsooccurring as part of the
diagnosis.
So someone diagnosed withdementia is not only losing
(02:15):
their memory, they're losingtheir culture, and it's a slow
step towards you know whateventually happens at the end of
this diagnosis, right, and sowe also talked about how
storytelling is essential in thepractice of preserving cultural
(02:37):
memory and fostering acommunity.
And I enjoy that episode somuch because we really were
being very nostalgic, talkingabout a lot of things that we
remembered, and a lot of thatwas around storytelling the
different stories that Olivertold in his Oliver at Large
series or any other thing thatwe connected to, because we
(02:58):
didn't only talk about Oliver,we talked about other creative
products or outputs from ourJamaican culture.
That helps us in the way thatwe think of culture and cultural
memory, and all of us in thatepisode emphasize our
(03:24):
responsibility as creatives tocreate impactful stories with
lasting legacies.
Right Over the last few years,I've been talking on the podcast
about focusing on films.
That's why you know Reels andRhythms got started.
It's important not only to seea reflection of ourselves in
media, but also using the mediumof the various forms of media
to preserve our culture.
(03:47):
Also in that episode, danishatouches on archiving family
history and the impact ofgenerational storytelling in
preserving identity and legacy.
And all of us, we all remembera grandmother, a auntie or
somebody telling stories and wetake for granted that these
(04:08):
stories are going to always betold.
But these stories they kind ofend or they're silenced if no
one is really documenting orwe're carrying on that story and
sometimes we think that, oh,somebody can always tell the
story and that's not always thecase, right.
And so Danisha discovered, youknow, in her personal connection
(04:28):
to honoring her grandmotherthrough storytelling, danisha
had I'm not sure the exhibit isstill active, but she had an
exhibition called the GardenRita Grew to honor her
grandmother, rita Marley, and Iwent to that exhibition and it
was truly inspiring and hearinghow she interviewed her grand
(04:50):
uncle and had a drawing of hergreat, great grandmother and it
just made me realize that we allhave similarities in our
stories.
We have these rich historiesbut we are not actively
preserving this history andDanisha doing this exhibit.
(05:10):
We are not all going to doexhibits, but we can really do
this in our own way.
Which brings me to theconversation I had with Malaney,
who continued this theme ofpreservation in storytelling and
she extended it even morethrough art.
And in that episode she said wehave to talk to our elders in
(05:31):
our families.
You know, she says everydayconversations.
She said grandparents, ifthere's no grandparents around,
elder aunts, a big cousin, youknow a family friend and start
recording these conversations.
Right, because this is theaspect of preservation.
We use WhatsApp, we voice note,we do all of these things.
(05:54):
That's part of the act ofpreservation.
And, most importantly, she wassaying it's asking questions of
the elders before theirknowledge is lost, whether it is
through a diagnosis of dementia, alzheimer's or through death,
and I've had those experiencefor the last few years and it's
been very difficult.
(06:14):
One of my regret is that Ididn't have these conversations
with my grandmother, or recordthem, rather, because I did have
the conversations but nothaving them recorded.
I regret that.
And so Malaney says we shouldlook at these stories and not
just stories the objects in ourhome, and in that episode she
(06:37):
talked about how her mother gaveher a piece of lace and she
created a ceramic sculpturearound it and she emphasized
that the everyday objects in thehouse the doilies, you know,
the crochet, all of these otherthings that I know my
grandmother did are artifactsworth preserving.
I don't have access to thesebecause my grandmother did them
(06:59):
so much in Jamaica but I don'thave access to these.
But these pieces would havebeen really great heirloom and
sometimes we kind of get rid ofthem for more modern things but
in the process we're losingreally key aspects of our
culture.
Also, in the episode withMalaney she was on the episode
talking about her book CraftedKinship inside the creative
(07:21):
practice of Black Caribbeanmakers and I was really moved by
one of the quotes in the bookby Amina Major that said
cultural memory is our survival.
It really really spoke to meand it continues to speak to me
(07:41):
because when I first started thepodcast, I knew that there was
an aspect of the new oralstorytelling tradition right,
but I'm recording my podcast andI have all these episodes that
I've recorded, right, but I knewthat in my mind.
But even though I said it, Ididn't actually know how I was
implementing it or how I wasgoing to continue to implement
it.
It was just a thing.
I said it.
I didn't actually know how Iwas implementing it or how I was
(08:02):
going to continue to implementit.
It was just a thing I said.
I didn't really make meaning orfully grasp the meaning of that
.
And 10 years in, it's nothingbut divine order that all of
these conversations are makingsense in the 10th year, they
(08:23):
said.
You know, biblically 10 is thenumber of.
Is it completion?
But in the episode I also saidthat you know we can't take for
granted that we'll always havethe culture and it will always
be around.
You know, in the Caribbeanwe're prone to natural disasters
, right, and in the episode withTristan and Danisha we talked
(08:44):
about how a lot of therecordings or programmings that
used to happen on the JBCstation TV station in Jamaica
were all destroyed by fire.
So some of the Ring Ding seriesthat Andrew Clark and I spoke
about in 2024, they're all lost.
(09:05):
Those are tapes with theHonorable Louise Bennett
Coverley and so many othercultural programming always be
around and anything can happen,right, and cultures die out.
It's a fact and we have to beclear about how we're doing our
(09:30):
cultural preservation and thework that we have to do Now.
Coming down to that, myconversation with Diana McCauley
was a completely different spinon preservation.
It was also following thethread of talking to the elders
Miss Pauline, right.
So Diana has a new novel outcalled A House for Miss Pauline
(09:51):
and it was really Miss Paulinerecounting her life in rural St
Mary and, through her eyes, kindof seeing the changes of
Jamaica over the years in termsof technology.
You know the old and the newcoexisting, and you know Miss
Pauline used stones from an oldplantation house to build her
(10:13):
house right.
And we got into theconversation around plantation
houses and how, preservation andthe complexities of
preservation, when the aspectsof our history aren't really
things that people are proud ofbut recognizing, there's still
historical significance in thatprocess, in that process.
(10:41):
And what really struck mepowerfully in all of these
conversations was the urgencyaround preservation, whether it
was Diana talking about her rolein preserving Jamaica's natural
environment, or how, again, howdo we treat great houses while
acknowledging what happenedthere but not condoning what
happened on the plantation GreatHouses right.
(11:03):
Or Tristan and Danishapreserving cultural stories on
film.
There's this recognition thatwhat isn't consciously preserved
can be lost forever.
But preservation isn't justabout documenting what was.
It is about understanding howwe live with our culture in the
(11:24):
present.
And that brings me to myconversation with Natalie
Bennett and more of myconversation with Malaney
Barnett.
And so the second theme isidentity navigation.
I want to kick it off withsomething that Danisha has said,
and I've heard this beforeJamaica resides wherever
(11:47):
Jamaicans are.
Caribbean is wherever Caribbeanpeople are anywhere in the
world, right.
So Natalie shared her journeyfrom, you know, being successful
in Jamaica, coming to the USbeing a successful Google
executive to finding herauthentic purpose.
(12:07):
But that was a journey and sheshared her experience of feeling
successful by externalstandards and not being
fulfilled internally.
External standards and notbeing fulfilled internally.
Right, and a lot of us you know, especially those of us growing
(12:29):
up in the Caribbean we knowwhat the external standards and
pressures are when it comes tosuccess, or what success should
look like.
And you know, in that episodeNatalie talked about the process
of peeling away layers tofinding her true self.
And that could be difficultwhen we feel like, you know,
we're navigating betweenCaribbean slash Jamaican.
And, you know, corporateAmerica context code switches
(12:57):
and chooses when to express hercultural identity.
And I know, in the past peoplesay it's not good to code switch
.
But I find that I'm likeMichaela says, I can speak
multiple language, I'm goinginto another language and it's a
choice, right, because when Icode switch at work, it reflects
I don't want to say intimacy,but it reflects connection,
(13:21):
right, I don't just speakPotswana to any and anybody.
Right, it is with someone who Iknow that I feel I can connect
and relate to.
Right, so it's not just oh, I'mswitching up because you know I
can't speak Jamaican.
I can but I choose not tobecause I don't have a
connection with you to speakthat.
Right, and I just wanted toshare that.
(13:44):
Code switching might get a badname but for me, code switching
is me being ambidextrous, beingable to move and be fluid in who
I want to communicate with, andit's a choice.
It's a language that I have andI want to exercise my right to
use my language however way Iwant to.
But what also came out thatepisode with Natalie was the
(14:06):
impact of our heritage, ourCaribbean heritage and values on
our work, ethic, our ambitionand our ambition is very high
and mindset and all of thatbalancing cultural expectations,
like the fragmentation ofidentity, like you show up to
work one way and again I justsaid it, you code switch, but I
(14:30):
code switch and talk to mynon-Jamaican coworkers because
they know when the accent comesout.
It's one of two things mostly,right, you're either very upset
or you're really excited and Imean I'll share an example.
I was on a call the other daywith my coworker and I said I
feel like a donut and when thecoworker didn't respond I
(14:52):
realized that oh, they have noidea what I'm talking about.
So I corrected myself and saidI feel like having a donut and
they were like, oh, I wasn'tsure which way to take that.
If you felt like a donutphysically or what you said,
right, but that's a example ofcomfort in the way that your
(15:13):
culture comes out and the personnot quite understanding, but
pausing because they're likewait, how should I take this?
And me catching it reallyquickly to say hey, this is how
I feel, and just have a chuckleover it.
So while that coworker was likeI'm not sure what she's talking
about, my coworker next to mewas like, yeah, I got it, you
(15:34):
wanted a donut.
And that coworker went outsidewith some other coworkers and
got me donuts, right.
So again, it's learning tonavigate corporate spaces in a
way that feels authentic to usindividually and there's really
no standard approach to this,because every industry and every
(15:57):
work culture is very differentapproach to this, because every
industry and every work cultureis very different.
But we can leverage ourcultural strengths in terms of
adaptability, work ethic,resourcefulness to thrive in our
professional settings and, youknow, meet our career
aspirations right careeraspirations right.
(16:23):
Also, natalie spoke about, youknow, differentiating between
external success, titles,accolades and internal
fulfillment, and I thought thatwas very important.
We talked about this inside thecommunity and it really
resonated with everyone whowatched that episode.
But also recognizing andcelebrating the small successes
along the journey and I know,culturally that can feel very
(16:44):
hard sometimes that because wehaven't fully made it, so this
little step is nothing big.
We want to celebrate when itgets to the big big thing.
But what really is that big bigthing?
Right?
And so what Natalie understoodand what she came away with in
finding her true self was, youknow, navigating between her
(17:05):
Jamaican-ness, broadlyCaribbean-ness, and American
context.
She can do that successfullywithout sacrificing too much of
her identity.
You know, she had her Jamaicanflag in her cup at work.
She made her coworker rum cakefor Christmas.
Had her Jamaican flag in hercup at work.
She made her coworker a rumcake for Christmas.
All of these little things.
She can still do both and feellike she's not sacrificing who
(17:28):
she is.
At work, we constantlyrecalibrate our cultural
expressions as we move throughlife.
This isn't about becoming lessCaribbean.
It's about finding authenticways to express our Caribbean
identity, that honor, both wherewe come from and where we are
(17:48):
now.
Sometimes that means turning upcertain aspects of our culture
and other times it meansexpressing it in more subtle
ways.
But the core, that foundationof who we are, remains intact
throughout.
When I had my second child and Iwas navigating through
(18:09):
corporate in a way that wasunfamiliar, that triggered me
wanting to start Carry OnFriends as a platform and I
wouldn't say that I wasconfident.
I knew I was Jamaican but Ididn't show up to work being
confident that, oh yeah, I canshow my Jamaican-ness.
No, but I knew I wanted toconnect because of what I was
(18:34):
experiencing at work at the timeand where I was after having my
second child and just feelinglike I was at a different place
in my life.
I can share so many storiesbecause a lot of this came out
of my personal experience, myown immigration experience, what
I saw in my family around meand, of course, you know, what
(18:55):
I've experienced or learnedthrough the years of the podcast
has kind of filled a lot of theholes or meanings that I had
Right.
So my relationship with Patoishas changed compared to 1993,
when I left Jamaica, to today,in 2025.
(19:17):
Because when I left Jamaica itwas just like oh, you know, it's
a thing.
25.
Because when I left Jamaica itwas just like oh, you know, it's
a thing.
You can't really speak it inschool, or you can, but you know
you can't really speak to theteacher like that in class.
And I remember when I came tothis country and my uncle, who's
been living in the country atthe time since the early
(19:38):
seventies, he was talking likehe just got off the American
Airlines flight with me and Iwas like, oh my God, like it's
like Louise Bennett, no, lecotwang, you know, it just
sounds so racha.
And here I am, in my adultyears, understanding why he
sounds like that.
And so, as I've lived here longenough, I understood why he
(20:03):
still had this very strongJamaican accent.
And it's because I realized Iwas holding on to my accent,
because it's really becameimportant part of my identity
now that I didn't live inJamaica.
And I remember the first time Iwent back to Jamaica, my cousin
and boy, carrie, you talk worsethan when you were living here
and I probably did, and I stilldo compare to my friends who
(20:26):
live down there, right Like theway I speak, because here I
didn't have to filter myself,the way that I felt like
culturally back in Jamaica, whatwas allowed and how you are
able to speak, and you know, weall know, that that's changing
right now in Jamaica what wasallowed and how you were able to
speak, and you know, we allknow, that that's changing right
now in Jamaica.
In terms of getting Jamaicanlanguage, patois or however way
(20:50):
you want to call it Although DrCarrie Lee said Patois is not
such a nice word but theJamaican language itself to be
recognized as an officiallanguage, the Jamaican language
itself to be recognized as anofficial language.
You know you'll hear about metalking about how do I get my
kids more involved in culture,and those things are important
to me because they don't live inJamaica, they won't have the
(21:12):
same experiences.
My grandmother is not aliveanymore, so they won't get to
experience certain thingsanymore, and so this
preservation and handover isreally important to me and my
kids.
And as I get older, the thingthat I've been talking about the
most is like the way I party orenjoy myself or the way I
connect with music is changingand it took me a very long time
(21:36):
to put that in words, like Iwould share this for many years
with Michaela.
She knows that I will tell herthings and she'd be like I don't
know what you're talking about.
But I go through this processto recognize that as I'm getting
older, my identity to music anddance changes.
But it took a very long timefor me to recognize that it was
(21:56):
me recalibrating because ofwhere I was as a parent.
So as a parent, I don't havetime to go to parties.
The same way I can't listen tomusic the same way because of
the content and, besides, thekids that listen to their things
.
So by the time they listen totheir thing, I don't have time
to listen to my thing.
I remember when the kids wereyounger there was a show on TV
(22:19):
called Wonder Pets and Iremember, you know, somebody
walked in and said where are thekids?
And we're like I don't know.
So why is Wonder Pets still on?
Because you know we just leaveit on.
You know, because it's alwaysgoing on, because by now we know
the character.
My brother-in-law always saidMing Ming Fiesty, but anyway, I
(22:40):
digress.
But, like, as we navigate work,life, all of these things, you
know, we shift in ourrelationship with the different
things that matter to usculturally.
So music and dance may not haveplayed a huge role to other
people, it did to me.
So as my relationship with thatchanged, I was trying to figure
(23:00):
out what does that make me?
Now, right, I don't know thelatest dance, you know.
So what I mean?
I can't go out party and dance.
I enjoy myself a certain wayand I've now become okay with,
yeah, if new music come out andI like it, I will listen to it,
but I'm not going to reallyreally work hard to keep up with
(23:21):
what's the newest song thatcome out.
So I could know it and it'sbeen okay with that.
And so the framework helps inunderstanding why you feel the
changes.
Like I've explained, when itpertains to culture, at certain
times times it's also mostimportantly, as I just shared
(23:44):
it's that recognizing thatevolving cultural expression.
For me, dance, for me, music,doesn't mean a cultural loss.
I can still do Borgl, I canstill do Butterfly, I still know
the old songs.
It just means that I'm choosingnot to focus and keep up with
them in the same way and itswitched that I'm now focusing
on different things as itpertains to culture.
So it's not a cultural loss,it's just how I express and
(24:07):
choose to keep up with it.
Right, and for me it wasfinding compassion for myself.
So the framework helps you findcompassion for yourself and
others who are at differentstages in the framework and, you
know, it helps identifyspecific actions to strengthen
your cultural connection, right?
So when I fully realized that,yeah, I can't keep up with the
(24:28):
music and that's okay, Irealized that I still can read
books.
I can read more books.
Now I could keep up with booksbecause now that I'm not using
time to spend to listen to music, that time can be redistributed
to read books or to watch films, which is what I do with Reels
and Rhythms, right.
So I've shifted and kind oftaught more about Caribbean
(24:51):
expression identity in film,right, and I've always read
books, read and carry on.
So now I can read books in adifferent way as opposed to
really focusing on music.
So, as I wrap up, it is notabout assimilation or losing
culture, it's not a one sizefits all approach to cultural
(25:13):
identity and it's reallydefinitely absolutely not about
judging others for being atdifferent cultural stages than
you are right, and it's alsodefinitely, definitely,
absolutely not not aboutprogressing towards being some
perfect version of culturalidentity.
(25:35):
It's evolving.
It evolves as we evolve.
Instead, it's about awareness,it's about intention, making
conscious choices about how weengage with our culture and,
perhaps most importantly, itreally really is about
compassion for others and forourselves as we navigate this
(25:57):
very complex journey that, upuntil this point, I really
didn't have someone to explainto me.
What was happening in 2012, youknow, when I was at work, 2013,
at work and just feeling reallyat odds about how my career was
going, how I was beingsupported as a professional, how
(26:19):
I was being asked to show upprofessionally, and all these
things that I really couldn'tunderstand, and so I'm grateful
again for your 10 years oflistening and for your support.
I've only scratched the surfaceof this cultural firm work today
.
It's not the entire thing.
More to come, and so, if you'dlike to learn more before I
share them on the podcast, Iinvite you to subscribe to the
(26:41):
newsletter.
You can click the link in theshow notes.
We're also going to be having alot more of these conversations
in our paid community.
Please sign up and connect withus inside that community.
Inside that community, I'mreally grateful again for the
(27:05):
last 10 years of the podcast andI'm really grateful that I've
been able to mature into thisframework and understanding and
this work.
And I want to thank you to allthe guests who've come on the
podcast and sharing theirstories and thank you, listeners
, for just being part of this10-year journey of cultural
exploration, which is what we'vebeen on for the last 10 years.
(27:27):
And, as always, until next time, walk good.
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of
Carry On Friends.
I'm your host, carrie-anne, andI'm excited about doing this
solo episode with you.
Today I'm reflecting on theepisodes that have come out so
far this year with some of ourguests.
I've had the privilege ofspeaking with the team behind
(00:25):
the short film Sugar Dumpling,starring the legendary Jamaican
actor Oliver Samuels, and thatteam includes Tristan Barracks,
danisha Prendegast, and then,after that, I had a conversation
with Natalie Bennett.
Natalie Bennett, then DianaMcCauley and, most recently,
(00:46):
Malaney Barnett.
As I reflected on theseconversations, I noticed
powerful patterns connectingtheir experiences threads about
identity preservation,representation and how we
navigate our Caribbean-ness,jamaican-ness, whatever other
(01:07):
Caribbean country you representacross different places, spaces
and life stages.
I mean, when I think about it,it was a life stage that got me
to start Carry On Friends.
Today I want to weave thesethreads together.
Think of this episode as acelebration of the last 10 years
(01:29):
, with a focus on these recentconversations, and I'm inviting
you to a deeper understanding ofour shared journey.
So the first observation is thepattern of cultural
preservation.
So, sugar Dumpling Tristan,danisha, michaela and I we were
(01:52):
having a discussion about thefilm, which addresses memory
loss, because that is alsooccurring as part of the
diagnosis.
So someone diagnosed withdementia is not only losing
(02:15):
their memory, they're losingtheir culture, and it's a slow
step towards you know whateventually happens at the end of
this diagnosis, right, and sowe also talked about how
storytelling is essential in thepractice of preserving cultural
(02:37):
memory and fostering acommunity.
And I enjoy that episode somuch because we really were
being very nostalgic, talkingabout a lot of things that we
remembered, and a lot of thatwas around storytelling the
different stories that Olivertold in his Oliver at Large
series or any other thing thatwe connected to, because we
(02:58):
didn't only talk about Oliver,we talked about other creative
products or outputs from ourJamaican culture.
That helps us in the way thatwe think of culture and cultural
memory, and all of us in thatepisode emphasize our
(03:24):
responsibility as creatives tocreate impactful stories with
lasting legacies.
Right Over the last few years,I've been talking on the podcast
about focusing on films.
That's why you know Reels andRhythms got started.
It's important not only to seea reflection of ourselves in
media, but also using the mediumof the various forms of media
to preserve our culture.
(03:47):
Also in that episode, danishatouches on archiving family
history and the impact ofgenerational storytelling in
preserving identity and legacy.
And all of us, we all remembera grandmother, a auntie or
somebody telling stories and wetake for granted that these
(04:08):
stories are going to always betold.
But these stories they kind ofend or they're silenced if no
one is really documenting orwe're carrying on that story and
sometimes we think that, oh,somebody can always tell the
story and that's not always thecase, right.
And so Danisha discovered, youknow, in her personal connection
(04:28):
to honoring her grandmotherthrough storytelling, danisha
had I'm not sure the exhibit isstill active, but she had an
exhibition called the GardenRita Grew to honor her
grandmother, rita Marley, and Iwent to that exhibition and it
was truly inspiring and hearinghow she interviewed her grand
(04:50):
uncle and had a drawing of hergreat, great grandmother and it
just made me realize that we allhave similarities in our
stories.
We have these rich historiesbut we are not actively
preserving this history andDanisha doing this exhibit.
(05:10):
We are not all going to doexhibits, but we can really do
this in our own way.
Which brings me to theconversation I had with Malaney,
who continued this theme ofpreservation in storytelling and
she extended it even morethrough art.
And in that episode she said wehave to talk to our elders in
(05:31):
our families.
You know, she says everydayconversations.
She said grandparents, ifthere's no grandparents around,
elder aunts, a big cousin, youknow a family friend and start
recording these conversations.
Right, because this is theaspect of preservation.
We use WhatsApp, we voice note,we do all of these things.
(05:54):
That's part of the act ofpreservation.
And, most importantly, she wassaying it's asking questions of
the elders before theirknowledge is lost, whether it is
through a diagnosis of dementia, alzheimer's or through death,
and I've had those experiencefor the last few years and it's
been very difficult.
(06:14):
One of my regret is that Ididn't have these conversations
with my grandmother, or recordthem, rather, because I did have
the conversations but nothaving them recorded.
I regret that.
And so Malaney says we shouldlook at these stories and not
just stories the objects in ourhome, and in that episode she
(06:37):
talked about how her mother gaveher a piece of lace and she
created a ceramic sculpturearound it and she emphasized
that the everyday objects in thehouse the doilies, you know,
the crochet, all of these otherthings that I know my
grandmother did are artifactsworth preserving.
I don't have access to thesebecause my grandmother did them
(06:59):
so much in Jamaica but I don'thave access to these.
But these pieces would havebeen really great heirloom and
sometimes we kind of get rid ofthem for more modern things but
in the process we're losingreally key aspects of our
culture.
Also, in the episode withMalaney she was on the episode
talking about her book CraftedKinship inside the creative
(07:21):
practice of Black Caribbeanmakers and I was really moved by
one of the quotes in the bookby Amina Major that said
cultural memory is our survival.
It really really spoke to meand it continues to speak to me
(07:41):
because when I first started thepodcast, I knew that there was
an aspect of the new oralstorytelling tradition right,
but I'm recording my podcast andI have all these episodes that
I've recorded, right, but I knewthat in my mind.
But even though I said it, Ididn't actually know how I was
implementing it or how I wasgoing to continue to implement
it.
It was just a thing.
I said it.
I didn't actually know how Iwas implementing it or how I was
(08:02):
going to continue to implementit.
It was just a thing I said.
I didn't really make meaning orfully grasp the meaning of that
.
And 10 years in, it's nothingbut divine order that all of
these conversations are makingsense in the 10th year, they
(08:23):
said.
You know, biblically 10 is thenumber of.
Is it completion?
But in the episode I also saidthat you know we can't take for
granted that we'll always havethe culture and it will always
be around.
You know, in the Caribbeanwe're prone to natural disasters
, right, and in the episode withTristan and Danisha we talked
(08:44):
about how a lot of therecordings or programmings that
used to happen on the JBCstation TV station in Jamaica
were all destroyed by fire.
So some of the Ring Ding seriesthat Andrew Clark and I spoke
about in 2024, they're all lost.
(09:05):
Those are tapes with theHonorable Louise Bennett
Coverley and so many othercultural programming always be
around and anything can happen,right, and cultures die out.
It's a fact and we have to beclear about how we're doing our
(09:30):
cultural preservation and thework that we have to do Now.
Coming down to that, myconversation with Diana McCauley
was a completely different spinon preservation.
It was also following thethread of talking to the elders
Miss Pauline, right.
So Diana has a new novel outcalled A House for Miss Pauline
(09:51):
and it was really Miss Paulinerecounting her life in rural St
Mary and, through her eyes, kindof seeing the changes of
Jamaica over the years in termsof technology.
You know the old and the newcoexisting, and you know Miss
Pauline used stones from an oldplantation house to build her
(10:13):
house right.
And we got into theconversation around plantation
houses and how, preservation andthe complexities of
preservation, when the aspectsof our history aren't really
things that people are proud ofbut recognizing, there's still
historical significance in thatprocess, in that process.
(10:41):
And what really struck mepowerfully in all of these
conversations was the urgencyaround preservation, whether it
was Diana talking about her rolein preserving Jamaica's natural
environment, or how, again, howdo we treat great houses while
acknowledging what happenedthere but not condoning what
happened on the plantation GreatHouses right.
(11:03):
Or Tristan and Danishapreserving cultural stories on
film.
There's this recognition thatwhat isn't consciously preserved
can be lost forever.
But preservation isn't justabout documenting what was.
It is about understanding howwe live with our culture in the
(11:24):
present.
And that brings me to myconversation with Natalie
Bennett and more of myconversation with Malaney
Barnett.
And so the second theme isidentity navigation.
I want to kick it off withsomething that Danisha has said,
and I've heard this beforeJamaica resides wherever
(11:47):
Jamaicans are.
Caribbean is wherever Caribbeanpeople are anywhere in the
world, right.
So Natalie shared her journeyfrom, you know, being successful
in Jamaica, coming to the USbeing a successful Google
executive to finding herauthentic purpose.
(12:07):
But that was a journey and sheshared her experience of feeling
successful by externalstandards and not being
fulfilled internally.
External standards and notbeing fulfilled internally.
Right, and a lot of us you know, especially those of us growing
(12:29):
up in the Caribbean we knowwhat the external standards and
pressures are when it comes tosuccess, or what success should
look like.
And you know, in that episodeNatalie talked about the process
of peeling away layers tofinding her true self.
And that could be difficultwhen we feel like, you know,
we're navigating betweenCaribbean slash Jamaican.
And, you know, corporateAmerica context code switches
(12:57):
and chooses when to express hercultural identity.
And I know, in the past peoplesay it's not good to code switch
.
But I find that I'm likeMichaela says, I can speak
multiple language, I'm goinginto another language and it's a
choice, right, because when Icode switch at work, it reflects
I don't want to say intimacy,but it reflects connection,
(13:21):
right, I don't just speakPotswana to any and anybody.
Right, it is with someone who Iknow that I feel I can connect
and relate to.
Right, so it's not just oh, I'mswitching up because you know I
can't speak Jamaican.
I can but I choose not tobecause I don't have a
connection with you to speakthat.
Right, and I just wanted toshare that.
(13:44):
Code switching might get a badname but for me, code switching
is me being ambidextrous, beingable to move and be fluid in who
I want to communicate with, andit's a choice.
It's a language that I have andI want to exercise my right to
use my language however way Iwant to.
But what also came out thatepisode with Natalie was the
(14:06):
impact of our heritage, ourCaribbean heritage and values on
our work, ethic, our ambitionand our ambition is very high
and mindset and all of thatbalancing cultural expectations,
like the fragmentation ofidentity, like you show up to
work one way and again I justsaid it, you code switch, but I
(14:30):
code switch and talk to mynon-Jamaican coworkers because
they know when the accent comesout.
It's one of two things mostly,right, you're either very upset
or you're really excited and Imean I'll share an example.
I was on a call the other daywith my coworker and I said I
feel like a donut and when thecoworker didn't respond I
(14:52):
realized that oh, they have noidea what I'm talking about.
So I corrected myself and saidI feel like having a donut and
they were like, oh, I wasn'tsure which way to take that.
If you felt like a donutphysically or what you said,
right, but that's a example ofcomfort in the way that your
(15:13):
culture comes out and the personnot quite understanding, but
pausing because they're likewait, how should I take this?
And me catching it reallyquickly to say hey, this is how
I feel, and just have a chuckleover it.
So while that coworker was likeI'm not sure what she's talking
about, my coworker next to mewas like, yeah, I got it, you
(15:34):
wanted a donut.
And that coworker went outsidewith some other coworkers and
got me donuts, right.
So again, it's learning tonavigate corporate spaces in a
way that feels authentic to usindividually and there's really
no standard approach to this,because every industry and every
(15:57):
work culture is very differentapproach to this, because every
industry and every work cultureis very different.
But we can leverage ourcultural strengths in terms of
adaptability, work ethic,resourcefulness to thrive in our
professional settings and, youknow, meet our career
aspirations right careeraspirations right.
(16:23):
Also, natalie spoke about, youknow, differentiating between
external success, titles,accolades and internal
fulfillment, and I thought thatwas very important.
We talked about this inside thecommunity and it really
resonated with everyone whowatched that episode.
But also recognizing andcelebrating the small successes
along the journey and I know,culturally that can feel very
(16:44):
hard sometimes that because wehaven't fully made it, so this
little step is nothing big.
We want to celebrate when itgets to the big big thing.
But what really is that big bigthing?
Right?
And so what Natalie understoodand what she came away with in
finding her true self was, youknow, navigating between her
(17:05):
Jamaican-ness, broadlyCaribbean-ness, and American
context.
She can do that successfullywithout sacrificing too much of
her identity.
You know, she had her Jamaicanflag in her cup at work.
She made her coworker rum cakefor Christmas.
Had her Jamaican flag in hercup at work.
She made her coworker a rumcake for Christmas.
All of these little things.
She can still do both and feellike she's not sacrificing who
(17:28):
she is.
At work, we constantlyrecalibrate our cultural
expressions as we move throughlife.
This isn't about becoming lessCaribbean.
It's about finding authenticways to express our Caribbean
identity, that honor, both wherewe come from and where we are
(17:48):
now.
Sometimes that means turning upcertain aspects of our culture
and other times it meansexpressing it in more subtle
ways.
But the core, that foundationof who we are, remains intact
throughout.
When I had my second child and Iwas navigating through
(18:09):
corporate in a way that wasunfamiliar, that triggered me
wanting to start Carry OnFriends as a platform and I
wouldn't say that I wasconfident.
I knew I was Jamaican but Ididn't show up to work being
confident that, oh yeah, I canshow my Jamaican-ness.
No, but I knew I wanted toconnect because of what I was
(18:34):
experiencing at work at the timeand where I was after having my
second child and just feelinglike I was at a different place
in my life.
I can share so many storiesbecause a lot of this came out
of my personal experience, myown immigration experience, what
I saw in my family around meand, of course, you know, what
(18:55):
I've experienced or learnedthrough the years of the podcast
has kind of filled a lot of theholes or meanings that I had
Right.
So my relationship with Patoishas changed compared to 1993,
when I left Jamaica, to today,in 2025.
(19:17):
Because when I left Jamaica itwas just like oh, you know, it's
a thing.
25.
Because when I left Jamaica itwas just like oh, you know, it's
a thing.
You can't really speak it inschool, or you can, but you know
you can't really speak to theteacher like that in class.
And I remember when I came tothis country and my uncle, who's
been living in the country atthe time since the early
(19:38):
seventies, he was talking likehe just got off the American
Airlines flight with me and Iwas like, oh my God, like it's
like Louise Bennett, no, lecotwang, you know, it just
sounds so racha.
And here I am, in my adultyears, understanding why he
sounds like that.
And so, as I've lived here longenough, I understood why he
(20:03):
still had this very strongJamaican accent.
And it's because I realized Iwas holding on to my accent,
because it's really becameimportant part of my identity
now that I didn't live inJamaica.
And I remember the first time Iwent back to Jamaica, my cousin
and boy, carrie, you talk worsethan when you were living here
and I probably did, and I stilldo compare to my friends who
(20:26):
live down there, right Like theway I speak, because here I
didn't have to filter myself,the way that I felt like
culturally back in Jamaica, whatwas allowed and how you are
able to speak, and you know, weall know, that that's changing
right now in Jamaica what wasallowed and how you were able to
speak, and you know, we allknow, that that's changing right
now in Jamaica.
In terms of getting Jamaicanlanguage, patois or however way
(20:50):
you want to call it Although DrCarrie Lee said Patois is not
such a nice word but theJamaican language itself to be
recognized as an officiallanguage, the Jamaican language
itself to be recognized as anofficial language.
You know you'll hear about metalking about how do I get my
kids more involved in culture,and those things are important
to me because they don't live inJamaica, they won't have the
(21:12):
same experiences.
My grandmother is not aliveanymore, so they won't get to
experience certain thingsanymore, and so this
preservation and handover isreally important to me and my
kids.
And as I get older, the thingthat I've been talking about the
most is like the way I party orenjoy myself or the way I
connect with music is changingand it took me a very long time
(21:36):
to put that in words, like Iwould share this for many years
with Michaela.
She knows that I will tell herthings and she'd be like I don't
know what you're talking about.
But I go through this processto recognize that as I'm getting
older, my identity to music anddance changes.
But it took a very long timefor me to recognize that it was
(21:56):
me recalibrating because ofwhere I was as a parent.
So as a parent, I don't havetime to go to parties.
The same way I can't listen tomusic the same way because of
the content and, besides, thekids that listen to their things
.
So by the time they listen totheir thing, I don't have time
to listen to my thing.
I remember when the kids wereyounger there was a show on TV
(22:19):
called Wonder Pets and Iremember, you know, somebody
walked in and said where are thekids?
And we're like I don't know.
So why is Wonder Pets still on?
Because you know we just leaveit on.
You know, because it's alwaysgoing on, because by now we know
the character.
My brother-in-law always saidMing Ming Fiesty, but anyway, I
(22:40):
digress.
But, like, as we navigate work,life, all of these things, you
know, we shift in ourrelationship with the different
things that matter to usculturally.
So music and dance may not haveplayed a huge role to other
people, it did to me.
So as my relationship with thatchanged, I was trying to figure
(23:00):
out what does that make me?
Now, right, I don't know thelatest dance, you know.
So what I mean?
I can't go out party and dance.
I enjoy myself a certain wayand I've now become okay with,
yeah, if new music come out andI like it, I will listen to it,
but I'm not going to reallyreally work hard to keep up with
(23:21):
what's the newest song thatcome out.
So I could know it and it'sbeen okay with that.
And so the framework helps inunderstanding why you feel the
changes.
Like I've explained, when itpertains to culture, at certain
times times it's also mostimportantly, as I just shared
(23:44):
it's that recognizing thatevolving cultural expression.
For me, dance, for me, music,doesn't mean a cultural loss.
I can still do Borgl, I canstill do Butterfly, I still know
the old songs.
It just means that I'm choosingnot to focus and keep up with
them in the same way and itswitched that I'm now focusing
on different things as itpertains to culture.
So it's not a cultural loss,it's just how I express and
(24:07):
choose to keep up with it.
Right, and for me it wasfinding compassion for myself.
So the framework helps you findcompassion for yourself and
others who are at differentstages in the framework and, you
know, it helps identifyspecific actions to strengthen
your cultural connection, right?
So when I fully realized that,yeah, I can't keep up with the
(24:28):
music and that's okay, Irealized that I still can read
books.
I can read more books.
Now I could keep up with booksbecause now that I'm not using
time to spend to listen to music, that time can be redistributed
to read books or to watch films, which is what I do with Reels
and Rhythms, right.
So I've shifted and kind oftaught more about Caribbean
(24:51):
expression identity in film,right, and I've always read
books, read and carry on.
So now I can read books in adifferent way as opposed to
really focusing on music.
So, as I wrap up, it is notabout assimilation or losing
culture, it's not a one sizefits all approach to cultural
(25:13):
identity and it's reallydefinitely absolutely not about
judging others for being atdifferent cultural stages than
you are right, and it's alsodefinitely, definitely,
absolutely not not aboutprogressing towards being some
perfect version of culturalidentity.
(25:35):
It's evolving.
It evolves as we evolve.
Instead, it's about awareness,it's about intention, making
conscious choices about how weengage with our culture and,
perhaps most importantly, itreally really is about
compassion for others and forourselves as we navigate this
(25:57):
very complex journey that, upuntil this point, I really
didn't have someone to explainto me.
What was happening in 2012, youknow, when I was at work, 2013,
at work and just feeling reallyat odds about how my career was
going, how I was beingsupported as a professional, how
(26:19):
I was being asked to show upprofessionally, and all these
things that I really couldn'tunderstand, and so I'm grateful
again for your 10 years oflistening and for your support.
I've only scratched the surfaceof this cultural firm work today
.
It's not the entire thing.
More to come, and so, if you'dlike to learn more before I
share them on the podcast, Iinvite you to subscribe to the
(26:41):
newsletter.
You can click the link in theshow notes.
We're also going to be having alot more of these conversations
in our paid community.
Please sign up and connect withus inside that community.
Inside that community, I'mreally grateful again for the
(27:05):
last 10 years of the podcast andI'm really grateful that I've
been able to mature into thisframework and understanding and
this work.
And I want to thank you to allthe guests who've come on the
podcast and sharing theirstories and thank you, listeners
, for just being part of this10-year journey of cultural
exploration, which is what we'vebeen on for the last 10 years.
(27:27):
And, as always, until next time, walk good.
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