April 29, 2025 • 31 mins
What happens when life hits you with multiple life-altering challenges at once? For Nicole Dubois, it was the catalyst for a profound journey of healing, self-discovery, and ultimately, sharing her story with the world.
Nicole's memoir "Unparalyzed" began during a solo trip to Greece—a journey she took after leaving a note on the refrigerator for her husband of 17 years announcing her decision to divorce. Standing atop the Acropolis in Athens, feeling both literally and metaphorically on top of the world, she experienced a moment of clarity that would change everything. Facing a multiple sclerosis diagnosis, impending single motherhood, and an uncertain future, Nicole turned to writing as therapy.
"Unparalyzed" offers a uniquely Caribbean-American perspective on universal challenges, exploring complex family dynamics, cultural expectations, and the liberation that comes from owning your story.
Connect with Nicole: Website | Instagram
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everyone, welcome to this read and carry
on edition of Carry On Friends,where we carry on about the
books that we're reading, andthose books are typically books
by people of Caribbean heritage,and I am excited to kick off
this new series with NicoleDubois.
Thank you for agreeing to bepart of this inaugural series.
(00:28):
And so why don't we tell thecommunity of friends, the
audience, the readers, thelisteners, a little bit about
who you are, the book we aregoing to talk about, and then me
pick up where you drop off.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
drop off.
Thank you so much, carrie-anne,and thank you so much for
having me on this show and thisinaugural version of your show.
So I am Nicole Dubois.
That is not my birth name, butI am a human resources executive
.
I'm originally from the Bronx,new York right, and my entire
family's Jamaican.
I was born in the Bronx andraised there.
(01:05):
I actually published a memoirand I published it under a
pseudonym.
I published it last year and mypseudonym is Danielle M Bryan,
and there's a whole story aroundthat which we probably will get
to.
But I chose the name becauseBryan is my mother's maiden name
and Danielle is the name thatmy mother almost gave me, you
(01:29):
know, and so until I think itwas someone she was working with
that said, oh, I'm gonna namemy dog Danielle, and so she
changed her mind, right.
So that's how I chose the nameand, you know, I would love to,
as we go further in thisconversation, talk more about my
choice to publish under a penname and then to be talking
about the book.
You know, as me myself, is likea whole transformative
(01:54):
experience, but I'm actuallyreally happy to be doing so
today.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right, before we get into it, did you say a
little bit about what the bookis about?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
No, that's right, that's right.
That's an important piece,right, the meat of it.
So in 2016, I was going througha period of what I refer to
sometimes as cascadingchallenges, right?
So one is I was married tosomeone who I had been with
since I was 19.
(02:30):
And so for almost 17 years, Iwas a mother to a child.
That was, he was about five atthat time and you know, as
someone in her mid thirties wasdiagnosed with a chronic illness
, right, an invisible chronicillness which is known as
multiple sclerosis.
(02:50):
So there was like everything onmy shoulders, and when I decided
that I was going to divorce, Iliterally wrote my ex-husband a
letter, I left it on therefrigerator and I said, by the
time you're going to get this,I'm going to be on my way on a
plane to Greece, right?
And so I took a two weekjourney, solo journey to Greece.
I went to Athens, I went toMykonos, I went to Santorini and
(03:14):
I took my iPad with me and Istarted writing because that's
all I could figure out how to do.
Right, and I remember climbingto the top of the Acropolis of
Athens and getting to the top, ajourney which you know I don't
know how many of your audienceyou know has taken.
But let me tell you somethingyou know it's majestic and the
steps are all marble and youknow it's slippery and it's
(03:39):
uneven and when you get to thetop it's like my gosh, I'm like
on the top of the world.
There was a moment of clarity Ithink that happened for me when
I got to the top of theAcropolis, but I kept on writing
and that was a part of myhealing and my, you know,
sorting out how do I sort of getto the other side of this.
You know, bubble of challengesthat I was facing at the time I
(03:59):
knew I was going to become asingle parent.
You know, for the first time Iknew that I was going to become
a single parent.
You know, for the first time Iknew that I was an executive.
You know, and my gosh, you know, suppose this illness that I
newly was diagnosed with wasgoing to be debilitating.
There were so many things, andso I continued to write and I
figured that you know, I'm notalone in this world, right, I
(04:22):
didn't invent divorce, I didn'tinvent multiple sclerosis or
serious chronic illnesses, andthere has to be some body, some
bodies, some women that couldconnect with my story, because
when I was looking for booksthat spoke to something similar
to my experience, I didn't findany that were written by anybody
(04:44):
of color or anybody that was ofCaribbean heritage.
I didn't, you know.
So I said, man, maybe there'ssomething unique about my story
and there's a reason that that Ineed to to to do this for my
own healing.
But there's a reason why I, youknow, have a purpose, you know,
which is to write my story andto share it with others.
So that's, that's what my bookis about All right, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So we're going to get into the book.
The first that me want to askyou and you kind of allude to it
a little bit in the book fromyour own behavior when you find
out you're sick and you try allof your Jesus might hide it from
your coworkers, right, and youknow a Jamaican family why you
got to carry business on theroad, why you got to tell all
(05:28):
our business.
Now help me get to how we getfrom that not wanting to tell
your co-workers you're sick soyou can't go to the hospital
Family we don't tell peoplewe're business to a memoir which
is literally telling youbusiness.
So talk to me about that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
All of the business.
Yes, I think that just the waythat you describe it is the way
that it happened, right?
So it was.
There were different milestoneswhere I felt like I was pushing
myself just a little further,and you know, just a little
further.
And I remember, a few monthsbefore I actually went live with
the book and I published a bookI was struggling with, you know
(06:10):
, do I publish under my name,right?
What is my mother going to say?
What is my family going to say?
And I remember one of the firstthings I did when I got to that
point of my journey is I sharedit with my cousin, my dear
cousin, which I'm an only child,right?
So only children connect withtheir cousins, right?
And so I shared it with mycousin.
I was like, take a read, right,Because it talks about the
(06:31):
family and everything.
And do you think, you know, itgoes too far?
People are going to be upset,People are going to be mad.
And when she read it and shesaid she read it in three
sittings and it read to her, youknow, almost like a novel I
said, okay, maybe I can do this,but I decided almost at the
final hour, okay, let me try toprotect folks that are mentioned
(06:53):
in the story by changing notonly their names but also
publishing under this other name.
And then, lo and behold, Carrie, and you know what happened.
When I finally published it, mymother, she was like oh, you
wrote this whole book about me.
There's one chapter about her.
Let me tell you there's one.
There's 26 chapters in the book, one chapter that says mother.
And she said you wrote this bookabout me.
(07:14):
Everybody knows about it.
I said how you know?
So I think, in just testing thewaters and going, just, you
know, first it was my editor isreading it and giving me
feedback, and then my now newhusband he's not that new
anymore, but you know Reddit andfriends and so on.
And then when I had my cousinread it, I said, okay, I'm a
(07:36):
little closer, you know, untilultimately getting to the point
when I said I think I could dothis, but I knew at that moment
that I wouldn't probably havebeen able to do it if I
published it on my real name atthat point, so let's talk about
you, know, because before weeven decided to do this
recording, I'm like all right,nicole, I think I want to have
(07:57):
you on the podcast, but tell mehow this is going to work.
How it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, like we're undercover what is happening,
but then you're on camera, yeah,so walk me through this process
of now deciding that I'm apublisher's book.
Okay, maybe I'm a publisherunder the pseudonym All right,
no forget, pseudonym Me Big BagNicole publishing this book.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I love the way you put that, yeah, but so I'll tell
you what happened.
Last fall.
I actually participated in myfirst book expo, right, and so
you know, I got the customtablecloth, everything and I had
my books and I'm sitting thereand it was actually a phenomenal
event here in New Jersey, whereI now live, and there was a
(08:46):
guest speaker that was a part ofthe event, who is a council
person, that's local to the townwhere I live, and so she was
talking about personal brandingand she invited authors there
were like maybe 40-somethingauthors that were set up at the
event to talk about their ownprocess of branding and getting
their name out and getting theirbook out and all that.
(09:07):
So let me tell you somethingI'm an introvert through and
through, which doesn't makesense, because I wrote this
memoir, this personal story.
This doesn't make sense.
Everything is likecontradictory.
I get it.
So I raised my hand and I saidI'll take the mic.
I took the mic and so I'mspeaking to the room about my
own, you know, sort ofexperience and I said, well, you
(09:29):
know, well, in my day life, I'ma human resources executive and
so you know, I wrote this story, but it's sort of personal and
I kind of decided not to expose,you know, the real me, and so
in doing so, I had to createdifferent social media accounts,
like I have, you know, socialmedia for the book, and then I
have, like LinkedIn.
(09:49):
I probably got like 6,000connections or whatever it is,
but I've had to keep the twoseparate.
Even on LinkedIn, when I firstpublished a book, I was excited
about it and I said, oh, youknow, I want, I want my
followers, my connections, toknow about this book from a
friend, right, and the woman sheresponded to me and she said
listen, I need you to hearsomething from me.
(10:09):
She said you can't be two people, baby Right.
She said your experience, yourjourney, your pain, your
everything that is a part of whoyou are.
And, carrie Ann, I got chillsin that moment.
I felt like I get chills, justyou saying it.
I man, the tears startedflowing and I'm not a crier, you
(10:31):
know.
The tears started flowing and Isaid she's so damn right.
She's damn right.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I feel like so, as I was reading the book.
You are my cousin Simone,literally, because Simone is our
only child, and when me comefrom Jamaica, I'm here with
Simone, right, but I feel likeand as I was reading it, in your
experience, I really got it,and which is why when people say
(10:59):
, oh yeah, yankee Pitney, you'reborn here, I'm like no, you are
a Jamaican, because the habits,the mindset, a lot of it you
inherit from your parents andyour family, and you know.
I just want to be clear, Ididn't shame you about not
telling the co-workers because,best believe, a lot of us will
do it Me want to ask you howyou're managing, now that you're
(11:23):
out, that you write this book.
How do you manage that withyour corporate life?
Because you know we are boxesand they don't touch each other
because that's what we do.
So how are you managing, likeyour professional, the head of
HR, because this is what y'allthink.
She claims that she's in the HRat Ray Tate.
(11:44):
No, yeah, talk to me about youknow, like, getting over that
mindset and then we'll talk alittle bit about the book.
I don't want to give somespoilers, but there were some
things in the book where I wasjust like go ahead?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
No, absolutely.
So, you know, again, everythingis like I don't know how to say
other than tiptoeing and sortof you know, okay, I went this
far, maybe I could go just a fewsteps further.
And so, after that experienceat the Book Expo, I came back
and I had a conversation with myboss, who's our CEO, and I said
I just want you to know I wrotethis book.
(12:22):
And she said what?
And she said you know cause she, she gets it.
She, you know, she spent a timearound a lot of Caribbean
people or people of Caribbeandescent.
She's like it's not abouttelling your business, but then,
if anybody, especially in thisworld where social media is so
prevalent or whatever it was tohappen upon it and connect it to
(12:46):
you, the question may come upabout well, why didn't you say
anything right?
And so, literally in small ways,whether it's with a direct
report here or a colleague thereI've been coming forward is how
I've been describing it, and Irecently connected to a
colleague who I appreciate ahundred percent, and this
colleague, you know, is like atop voice on LinkedIn, right,
(13:06):
somehow found me and I kept onsaying how on earth could you
find me?
You have a hundred and somethousand connections Before the
person reached out to me in my,you know, by direct message.
They posted something onLinkedIn which said this is the
photo of somebody with bipolarright and they had been a
(13:26):
professional and working in theDEI space and a public speaker
and speaking all over the worldand a published author and all
of this stuff, but came with alevel of vulnerability that I
literally have never seen beforeand got such a wave of
responses and big ups andeverything.
And I've said this to hermultiple times and I will say it
(13:48):
again.
I said, listen, if you could dothis, it made me feel just a
little bit more like I could doit and that you know, actually,
if I connect it to my work as anHR executive, I talk about
authentic leadership all thetime in work and vulnerability
(14:08):
in leadership, and so this islike an avenue in my mind for
sort of leaning into that andbeing an example of it.
I can be vulnerable because whatis the shame in?
Again, I didn't invent divorce.
What's the divorce rate in thiscountry?
You know what I'm saying.
So if I talk about it, okay,and I got remarried, and what
(14:30):
right?
What about that?
And did I give myself MS.
What's the shame in that?
You know what I'm saying, sowhy can't I talk about that?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
The divorce was minor in all of this story.
The divorce was minor in mypoint of view, Not minor in your
life, obviously.
I had way more questions, youknow.
But so are you republishing thebook or do you plan to
republish under your real name?
If you don't have the answer,I'm just you know.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I don't know.
You know I've actually receivedthat suggestion.
I'm not sure yet.
What I am more sure about is Iwant to write more and there's
no need for me to write behind,you know, sort of the cover of a
pseudonym, right, and it may bethat it's not necessarily
limited to personal narrative,it may be more related to
(15:23):
leadership.
But I want to write more andI'm very clear on that.
I'm not sure, you know, if thisparticular book, if I would
republish it, okay.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So what I appreciate about the book was, you know,
there was a part in the bookwhere you kind of going through
the mindset of how you buck upin a HR.
It connected in a way because Ibuck up in a HR and I'm like I
don't know if I want to reallywork in HR.
It's like it's a miscellaneousjob category, for lack of a
(15:55):
better word.
Right, but I appreciated howyou kind of went through the
career journey and kind offinding yourself in your career
and having to deal with manyJamaicans who just say, all
right, we are working in ahospital, I'm good with that and
want you to work in hospitals.
(16:17):
I appreciate it, you know,taking us through that process
because, I don't know, maybemost people take for granted,
say, oh, they work in a hospital, but like what if I don't want
to be?
Like what happens?
And even though you dedicatedone chapter to your mom, I
already figure out your mom.
She, she, very, she might behere somewhere.
(16:37):
She very, you know, like, dothis, do that.
But I also appreciated that youshowed her vulnerability, the
way a Jamaican woman isvulnerable.
She wanted a divorce from yourfather and she tell the judge,
say, if me, no, left him, hemight go kill me, and that in
and of itself it doesn't feellike vulnerability.
(17:00):
But if you know a Jamaicanwoman, for her to even say that
out loud in public in acourtroom.
that was her defiantly sayingenough is enough.
And either way, those nuancesand that's why like a memoir
(17:20):
coming from someone who lives inthe diaspora, like not a story
of someone based in Jamaica,because that's a very different
telling yeah, of a story um,than somebody who lives here and
have to experience that.
So that's what I appreciatedabout it.
Me really fast about.
(17:41):
You know how did Daniel managethe Osman Akomanga Leith?
With no explanation I said Iwould have bussy head already.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Let me tell you something.
When my mom first read it, shegot into the first chapter.
This is before she got to themother chapter.
Right, she said go on boxing,you see.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's all I was saying.
So that's why I'm like, by thetime you got to the divorce, I
didn't care when I said I'mlucky I didn't pee as much as he
gets with his behavior, becauseyou know.
So that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I'm not saying the divorce was nothing it so that's
what I mean.
I'm were discussing sort oflike the journey around divorce,
that it's not always a linearjourney and you know, I think
it's okay to normalize that.
You know, this is someone I metwhen I was 19 years old.
(18:54):
He was like 21.
I effectively grew up with him,right, only person I ever lived
with at that time.
All of that Then ultimately,with the back and forth and
everything, had a child, and sothere was that, you know, just
sort of like what do I do withthis?
And, you know, does it have tobe final?
There was a piece that I talkabout in the book around.
You know, so much divorce andseparation in my family, so
maybe I could be the one that'sgoing to fix it, you know, and
(19:16):
change the course, right.
And so I put that burden onmyself, which you know now I can
name, you know, and wasn't ableto, as I was sort of going
through it, you know, and so Ithink that's that's a part of
why it was so important for meto be able to lift up my
experience, because I imaginethere's people right now young
(19:39):
women right now, or young peopleright now that are in
relationships, even if it's notmarriage, that are trying to
figure out.
What do I do when you know?
And so I don't know how else toexplain it besides that.
I mean, it's been years.
I'm almost 45 years old.
There's so much that I'velearned since then.
You know what I mean.
But I think that was what wasprimarily coming.
(20:02):
And then, by the time we had achild, then it was well, we have
a child.
You know, I was the product ofa divorce.
I was raised by a single parent.
That is the last thing that Iwanted for my son and his father
.
Same thing that I wanted for myson and his father, same thing,
you know.
And so I was like my gosh,maybe there's just some way.
(20:27):
But I knew there was a day thatcame, and, especially after the
diagnosis of MS, I was like, no, I can't do this.
No, this is not what I'm herefor.
And my son will be better forit, because if his mother is
healing, not only physically butemotionally, and is doing what
she needs to be, well, he'sgoing to have a different type
of mother, different type oflife, than he would if I drowned
(20:47):
in.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
you know the pain of, you know, being in a
relationship that wasn't servingme, so yeah, there were a lot
of things that I appreciatedabout the story, the
relationship with thegrandmother.
I have a soft spot forgrandmothers because I was my
grandmother on bug.
You know it is what it is I'mthe first grandchild and you
know your grandfather, who wasnot your biological grandfather
(21:12):
but was really that grandfather.
I too have a similar experiencewith that Right, and you know
you can't explain it because ifyou want to tell anybody that
you're not related by blood,they would not believe Right.
But there was one particularscene that I even I don't
remember how I shared it withsomebody, but it was just such a
(21:33):
poignant story with your auntwho had the addiction and when
she came to your house and, um,you know, the salt shaker was
the thing that kind of threw heroff or something right, it's
like what do I do with?
this grinder thing, yes, right,and.
And then she didn't come aroundand she said, um, because she
(21:56):
didn't feel like she was withour people, our fit in our
mother?
Well, of course she's not fitin.
We're not drug addicts, youknow like I was just like, oh my
God, oh, you read it, read it.
Yeah, but the reason why itstood out it wasn't for the dig
(22:16):
at your aunt.
I used it in another scenariowhere I gave that example and I
basically said if somebody saidthey don't fit in with you, it's
not, has nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It's them Right.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That's really what your mother was.
Your mother was saying in thatway and that was just like, oh,
my God, would I probably softenit, but it was.
But it was just like yourmother is right.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So um, yeah, and it was a choice.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, there were so many things.
I don't want to argue with thebook.
There were so many things.
Your mother and the doctor andyou know patient confidentiality
, just like wait, that wentright out the window, right out
the window.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And I was, you know, in my 20s.
It's not like I was a kid orsomething, a minor man, I don't
know.
But it's so funny that you weretalking about my aunt, my mom's
younger sister, because she washeavy on my mind recently.
Listen, she's still on the road.
(23:28):
She's in her sixties.
She's been, you know, on andoff of drugs since she was
probably in her twenties.
She was in the military, shehad two children, she has
grandchildren.
She'll likely never meet.
She has never met and she'lllikely never meet.
And in this current climate, inthis country right, where ICE
agents are running rampant,that's the first one of the
first people we were thinkingabout and we said listen, I
don't know if she had her greencard on her, I have no idea.
(23:49):
And I said to my mother, itmust've been a few days ago.
I said, you know what, if shegets picked up by an ICE agent
and she's deported, that'sprobably the best thing for her,
back to Jamaica, even thoughshe hasn't been there in decades
, you know.
But she was, she was.
So it's funny that youmentioned that, because she was
just on my mind.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, sclerosis diagnosis and going through that
(24:27):
experience and Mifas where areyou now in that health journey?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
How are you managing that diagnosis?
Well, jamaican isn't fast, soyou know, thankfully, thankfully
, I after three different triesat treatment.
So disease-modifying drugs iswhat an infusion, right.
And actually the first time Ihad the infusion, I think I was
(25:02):
there like eight hours, but nowthey've like made it rapid, so
it's like cut in half, right,and so I go in every six months.
Most days, quite frankly, carryon, I don't even remember.
I have the illness and that's agood thing, and so I knock on
wood.
You know there's some sensationthat I lost in my fingertips
that never came back, so it'slike numb, but I haven't had a
(25:25):
major exacerbation in at leasttwo years and so I am so
grateful for that.
You know, I've had times wheremy youngest son is 14.
I have bonus children too, butmy child is 14 now and when he
was little I would just not bearound and he didn't know where,
because I was in the hospital.
You know, having a relapse andhaving to have, you know, high
(25:48):
dose steroids and all of thisstuff, because, like I would
walk around and I can't feel myleg, but I haven't had anything
like that now.
Now MS is one of these likenasty little things to me
because it's, you know, peoplelook at me and they don't know
what I got.
They don't know I have anything.
They wouldn't know unless Itell them.
And if I have days that are good, then sometimes I even forget,
(26:09):
but it's one of those thingsthat's unpredictable, right.
I have something calledrelapsing, remitting.
So arguably I'm in a remission,right, and so I just every day,
I take one day at a time, I tryto enjoy the heck out of life,
and so I told you about thattrip, that solo journey to
Greece.
I ain't stopped traveling sinceI had to take a brief pause
(26:29):
during the pandemic, but I hadbucket list trips to everywhere
I wanted to go.
I went to Bali, indonesia, Iwent to South Africa, morocco,
and we are traveling, we'regoing to Portugal next month and
Barcelona.
So, you know, I take every day,you know, at a time, and just
try to enjoy every, every partof life Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I mean, the trip that you took to the desert was
funny.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That was a test drive , right?
Yes, oh, maybe I could do this.
I could travel alone, I coulddo this, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, it was funny, but I do appreciate the telling
of this story.
I do recommend people read thisbook.
I think that's why memoirs arejust so interesting, because
it's not highly fictionalizedand outlandish.
It is real life and theperspective of being from the
(27:30):
Caribbean.
There are stories that I hearover and over on this podcast
what it means to be the child ofan immigrant, a Jamaican
immigrant, a Caribbean immigrantand how you show up in the
world because of that.
And I really appreciated thatnuance, relationship with the
(27:55):
father and all of that.
If we keep talking, we're goingto give away the book and I'm
not going to do that here, sowhy don't you tell everybody
where they can find the book?
And yeah, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Sure, sure, thank you .
So the book is available onamazoncom, barnesandnoblecom,
archwaypublishingcom, and soit's available in paperback and
hardcover.
I do have an IG right now it'sstill unparalyzedmemoircom, and
so you know, I invite, you know,connection, and you know I have
(28:25):
really been in a space ofmentoring, you know where I can,
mentoring young people,mentoring women that are
similarly situated.
So, you know, happy to connectand to be helpful, however, I
can.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Wonderful.
I was going to say Danielle,but Nicole.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I know, I know, listen, I've been married twice
right, and so I've had threedifferent last names in my life,
right?
So even going through that,there's like an identity shift,
right, my maiden name, my firstmarried name, and then changing
it, so yeah, but then with thewhole name thing it's been, it's
been different, but this hasbeen a wonderful part of the
(29:05):
journey of sort of comingforward and becoming one person,
so I appreciate it Before Ileave.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I don't think I asked this question.
How long I know you startedwriting the book when you're
going on a trip, but how longdid it take the publishing
process take for you to get thisbook out?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, actually the publishing process was one of
the easiest pieces because Iwent with a hybrid publisher, so
with self-publishing, however,I didn't have to do like nearly
anything on my own right.
It was a company that did, youknow, the binding, the printing,
the cover, the whatever Right,and so they really did a lot for
(29:45):
me.
So it probably took two months,if that.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
And how long did it take you to write?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
write, oh, to actually write it and edit, and
you know, rewrite and all that.
That was more like about fouryears.
I would say, you know, rewriteand all that.
That was more like about fouryears.
I would say I worked with twodifferent professional editors.
First with a developmentaleditor and that person was so
instrumental.
She actually was with me when Iwas still in New York, was
(30:12):
living in New York, and then shemoved to Prague.
I was like, where are you going?
But she saw a different storythan the one that I saw.
She said that she, I thought mything was about you know, ms
and the divorce and the this andthat.
And she said no, this is aboutyour relationship with men.
I said, excuse me, and thechapter that's now first was not
the first chapter, so it wassuch an interesting thing.
And then I worked with anothereditor that you know helped with
(30:36):
line editing and everything youknow.
So it was really a process.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, I really liked it.
So thank you for sharing andcarry on.
Friends audience, please gopick up Unparalyzed.
It's something that I think youwill enjoy, especially if you
live here in the diaspora.
You will get the perspective ofsomeone who lives, understands
(31:03):
your community.
All of that good stuff.
So thank you so much and muchsuccess to you and until next
time, as I love to say, walkgood.
Thank you so much, Garyann.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Thank you.
Hello everyone, welcome to this read and carry
on edition of Carry On Friends,where we carry on about the
books that we're reading, andthose books are typically books
by people of Caribbean heritage,and I am excited to kick off
this new series with NicoleDubois.
Thank you for agreeing to bepart of this inaugural series.
(00:28):
And so why don't we tell thecommunity of friends, the
audience, the readers, thelisteners, a little bit about
who you are, the book we aregoing to talk about, and then me
pick up where you drop off.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
drop off.
Thank you so much, carrie-anne,and thank you so much for
having me on this show and thisinaugural version of your show.
So I am Nicole Dubois.
That is not my birth name, butI am a human resources executive
.
I'm originally from the Bronx,new York right, and my entire
family's Jamaican.
I was born in the Bronx andraised there.
(01:05):
I actually published a memoirand I published it under a
pseudonym.
I published it last year and mypseudonym is Danielle M Bryan,
and there's a whole story aroundthat which we probably will get
to.
But I chose the name becauseBryan is my mother's maiden name
and Danielle is the name thatmy mother almost gave me, you
(01:29):
know, and so until I think itwas someone she was working with
that said, oh, I'm gonna namemy dog Danielle, and so she
changed her mind, right.
So that's how I chose the nameand, you know, I would love to,
as we go further in thisconversation, talk more about my
choice to publish under a penname and then to be talking
about the book.
You know, as me myself, is likea whole transformative
(01:54):
experience, but I'm actuallyreally happy to be doing so
today.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
All right, before we get into it, did you say a
little bit about what the bookis about?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
No, that's right, that's right.
That's an important piece,right, the meat of it.
So in 2016, I was going througha period of what I refer to
sometimes as cascadingchallenges, right?
So one is I was married tosomeone who I had been with
since I was 19.
(02:30):
And so for almost 17 years, Iwas a mother to a child.
That was, he was about five atthat time and you know, as
someone in her mid thirties wasdiagnosed with a chronic illness
, right, an invisible chronicillness which is known as
multiple sclerosis.
(02:50):
So there was like everything onmy shoulders, and when I decided
that I was going to divorce, Iliterally wrote my ex-husband a
letter, I left it on therefrigerator and I said, by the
time you're going to get this,I'm going to be on my way on a
plane to Greece, right?
And so I took a two weekjourney, solo journey to Greece.
I went to Athens, I went toMykonos, I went to Santorini and
(03:14):
I took my iPad with me and Istarted writing because that's
all I could figure out how to do.
Right, and I remember climbingto the top of the Acropolis of
Athens and getting to the top, ajourney which you know I don't
know how many of your audienceyou know has taken.
But let me tell you somethingyou know it's majestic and the
steps are all marble and youknow it's slippery and it's
(03:39):
uneven and when you get to thetop it's like my gosh, I'm like
on the top of the world.
There was a moment of clarity Ithink that happened for me when
I got to the top of theAcropolis, but I kept on writing
and that was a part of myhealing and my, you know,
sorting out how do I sort of getto the other side of this.
You know, bubble of challengesthat I was facing at the time I
(03:59):
knew I was going to become asingle parent.
You know, for the first time Iknew that I was going to become
a single parent.
You know, for the first time Iknew that I was an executive.
You know, and my gosh, you know, suppose this illness that I
newly was diagnosed with wasgoing to be debilitating.
There were so many things, andso I continued to write and I
figured that you know, I'm notalone in this world, right, I
(04:22):
didn't invent divorce, I didn'tinvent multiple sclerosis or
serious chronic illnesses, andthere has to be some body, some
bodies, some women that couldconnect with my story, because
when I was looking for booksthat spoke to something similar
to my experience, I didn't findany that were written by anybody
(04:44):
of color or anybody that was ofCaribbean heritage.
I didn't, you know.
So I said, man, maybe there'ssomething unique about my story
and there's a reason that that Ineed to to to do this for my
own healing.
But there's a reason why I, youknow, have a purpose, you know,
which is to write my story andto share it with others.
So that's, that's what my bookis about All right, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So we're going to get into the book.
The first that me want to askyou and you kind of allude to it
a little bit in the book fromyour own behavior when you find
out you're sick and you try allof your Jesus might hide it from
your coworkers, right, and youknow a Jamaican family why you
got to carry business on theroad, why you got to tell all
(05:28):
our business.
Now help me get to how we getfrom that not wanting to tell
your co-workers you're sick soyou can't go to the hospital
Family we don't tell peoplewe're business to a memoir which
is literally telling youbusiness.
So talk to me about that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
All of the business.
Yes, I think that just the waythat you describe it is the way
that it happened, right?
So it was.
There were different milestoneswhere I felt like I was pushing
myself just a little further,and you know, just a little
further.
And I remember, a few monthsbefore I actually went live with
the book and I published a bookI was struggling with, you know
(06:10):
, do I publish under my name,right?
What is my mother going to say?
What is my family going to say?
And I remember one of the firstthings I did when I got to that
point of my journey is I sharedit with my cousin, my dear
cousin, which I'm an only child,right?
So only children connect withtheir cousins, right?
And so I shared it with mycousin.
I was like, take a read, right,Because it talks about the
(06:31):
family and everything.
And do you think, you know, itgoes too far?
People are going to be upset,People are going to be mad.
And when she read it and shesaid she read it in three
sittings and it read to her, youknow, almost like a novel I
said, okay, maybe I can do this,but I decided almost at the
final hour, okay, let me try toprotect folks that are mentioned
(06:53):
in the story by changing notonly their names but also
publishing under this other name.
And then, lo and behold, Carrie, and you know what happened.
When I finally published it, mymother, she was like oh, you
wrote this whole book about me.
There's one chapter about her.
Let me tell you there's one.
There's 26 chapters in the book, one chapter that says mother.
And she said you wrote this bookabout me.
(07:14):
Everybody knows about it.
I said how you know?
So I think, in just testing thewaters and going, just, you
know, first it was my editor isreading it and giving me
feedback, and then my now newhusband he's not that new
anymore, but you know Reddit andfriends and so on.
And then when I had my cousinread it, I said, okay, I'm a
(07:36):
little closer, you know, untilultimately getting to the point
when I said I think I could dothis, but I knew at that moment
that I wouldn't probably havebeen able to do it if I
published it on my real name atthat point, so let's talk about
you, know, because before weeven decided to do this
recording, I'm like all right,nicole, I think I want to have
(07:57):
you on the podcast, but tell mehow this is going to work.
How it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, like we're undercover what is happening,
but then you're on camera, yeah,so walk me through this process
of now deciding that I'm apublisher's book.
Okay, maybe I'm a publisherunder the pseudonym All right,
no forget, pseudonym Me Big BagNicole publishing this book.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I love the way you put that, yeah, but so I'll tell
you what happened.
Last fall.
I actually participated in myfirst book expo, right, and so
you know, I got the customtablecloth, everything and I had
my books and I'm sitting thereand it was actually a phenomenal
event here in New Jersey, whereI now live, and there was a
(08:46):
guest speaker that was a part ofthe event, who is a council
person, that's local to the townwhere I live, and so she was
talking about personal brandingand she invited authors there
were like maybe 40-somethingauthors that were set up at the
event to talk about their ownprocess of branding and getting
their name out and getting theirbook out and all that.
(09:07):
So let me tell you somethingI'm an introvert through and
through, which doesn't makesense, because I wrote this
memoir, this personal story.
This doesn't make sense.
Everything is likecontradictory.
I get it.
So I raised my hand and I saidI'll take the mic.
I took the mic and so I'mspeaking to the room about my
own, you know, sort ofexperience and I said, well, you
(09:29):
know, well, in my day life, I'ma human resources executive and
so you know, I wrote this story, but it's sort of personal and
I kind of decided not to expose,you know, the real me, and so
in doing so, I had to createdifferent social media accounts,
like I have, you know, socialmedia for the book, and then I
have, like LinkedIn.
(09:49):
I probably got like 6,000connections or whatever it is,
but I've had to keep the twoseparate.
Even on LinkedIn, when I firstpublished a book, I was excited
about it and I said, oh, youknow, I want, I want my
followers, my connections, toknow about this book from a
friend, right, and the woman sheresponded to me and she said
listen, I need you to hearsomething from me.
(10:09):
She said you can't be two people, baby Right.
She said your experience, yourjourney, your pain, your
everything that is a part of whoyou are.
And, carrie Ann, I got chillsin that moment.
I felt like I get chills, justyou saying it.
I man, the tears startedflowing and I'm not a crier, you
(10:31):
know.
The tears started flowing and Isaid she's so damn right.
She's damn right.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I feel like so, as I was reading the book.
You are my cousin Simone,literally, because Simone is our
only child, and when me comefrom Jamaica, I'm here with
Simone, right, but I feel likeand as I was reading it, in your
experience, I really got it,and which is why when people say
(10:59):
, oh yeah, yankee Pitney, you'reborn here, I'm like no, you are
a Jamaican, because the habits,the mindset, a lot of it you
inherit from your parents andyour family, and you know.
I just want to be clear, Ididn't shame you about not
telling the co-workers because,best believe, a lot of us will
do it Me want to ask you howyou're managing, now that you're
(11:23):
out, that you write this book.
How do you manage that withyour corporate life?
Because you know we are boxesand they don't touch each other
because that's what we do.
So how are you managing, likeyour professional, the head of
HR, because this is what y'allthink.
She claims that she's in the HRat Ray Tate.
(11:44):
No, yeah, talk to me about youknow, like, getting over that
mindset and then we'll talk alittle bit about the book.
I don't want to give somespoilers, but there were some
things in the book where I wasjust like go ahead?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
No, absolutely.
So, you know, again, everythingis like I don't know how to say
other than tiptoeing and sortof you know, okay, I went this
far, maybe I could go just a fewsteps further.
And so, after that experienceat the Book Expo, I came back
and I had a conversation with myboss, who's our CEO, and I said
I just want you to know I wrotethis book.
(12:22):
And she said what?
And she said you know cause she, she gets it.
She, you know, she spent a timearound a lot of Caribbean
people or people of Caribbeandescent.
She's like it's not abouttelling your business, but then,
if anybody, especially in thisworld where social media is so
prevalent or whatever it was tohappen upon it and connect it to
(12:46):
you, the question may come upabout well, why didn't you say
anything right?
And so, literally in small ways,whether it's with a direct
report here or a colleague thereI've been coming forward is how
I've been describing it, and Irecently connected to a
colleague who I appreciate ahundred percent, and this
colleague, you know, is like atop voice on LinkedIn, right,
(13:06):
somehow found me and I kept onsaying how on earth could you
find me?
You have a hundred and somethousand connections Before the
person reached out to me in my,you know, by direct message.
They posted something onLinkedIn which said this is the
photo of somebody with bipolarright and they had been a
(13:26):
professional and working in theDEI space and a public speaker
and speaking all over the worldand a published author and all
of this stuff, but came with alevel of vulnerability that I
literally have never seen beforeand got such a wave of
responses and big ups andeverything.
And I've said this to hermultiple times and I will say it
(13:48):
again.
I said, listen, if you could dothis, it made me feel just a
little bit more like I could doit and that you know, actually,
if I connect it to my work as anHR executive, I talk about
authentic leadership all thetime in work and vulnerability
(14:08):
in leadership, and so this islike an avenue in my mind for
sort of leaning into that andbeing an example of it.
I can be vulnerable because whatis the shame in?
Again, I didn't invent divorce.
What's the divorce rate in thiscountry?
You know what I'm saying.
So if I talk about it, okay,and I got remarried, and what
(14:30):
right?
What about that?
And did I give myself MS.
What's the shame in that?
You know what I'm saying, sowhy can't I talk about that?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
The divorce was minor in all of this story.
The divorce was minor in mypoint of view, Not minor in your
life, obviously.
I had way more questions, youknow.
But so are you republishing thebook or do you plan to
republish under your real name?
If you don't have the answer,I'm just you know.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I don't know.
You know I've actually receivedthat suggestion.
I'm not sure yet.
What I am more sure about is Iwant to write more and there's
no need for me to write behind,you know, sort of the cover of a
pseudonym, right, and it may bethat it's not necessarily
limited to personal narrative,it may be more related to
(15:23):
leadership.
But I want to write more andI'm very clear on that.
I'm not sure, you know, if thisparticular book, if I would
republish it, okay.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So what I appreciate about the book was, you know,
there was a part in the bookwhere you kind of going through
the mindset of how you buck upin a HR.
It connected in a way because Ibuck up in a HR and I'm like I
don't know if I want to reallywork in HR.
It's like it's a miscellaneousjob category, for lack of a
(15:55):
better word.
Right, but I appreciated howyou kind of went through the
career journey and kind offinding yourself in your career
and having to deal with manyJamaicans who just say, all
right, we are working in ahospital, I'm good with that and
want you to work in hospitals.
(16:17):
I appreciate it, you know,taking us through that process
because, I don't know, maybemost people take for granted,
say, oh, they work in a hospital, but like what if I don't want
to be?
Like what happens?
And even though you dedicatedone chapter to your mom, I
already figure out your mom.
She, she, very, she might behere somewhere.
(16:37):
She very, you know, like, dothis, do that.
But I also appreciated that youshowed her vulnerability, the
way a Jamaican woman isvulnerable.
She wanted a divorce from yourfather and she tell the judge,
say, if me, no, left him, hemight go kill me, and that in
and of itself it doesn't feellike vulnerability.
(17:00):
But if you know a Jamaicanwoman, for her to even say that
out loud in public in acourtroom.
that was her defiantly sayingenough is enough.
And either way, those nuancesand that's why like a memoir
(17:20):
coming from someone who lives inthe diaspora, like not a story
of someone based in Jamaica,because that's a very different
telling yeah, of a story um,than somebody who lives here and
have to experience that.
So that's what I appreciatedabout it.
Me really fast about.
(17:41):
You know how did Daniel managethe Osman Akomanga Leith?
With no explanation I said Iwould have bussy head already.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Let me tell you something.
When my mom first read it, shegot into the first chapter.
This is before she got to themother chapter.
Right, she said go on boxing,you see.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's all I was saying.
So that's why I'm like, by thetime you got to the divorce, I
didn't care when I said I'mlucky I didn't pee as much as he
gets with his behavior, becauseyou know.
So that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I'm not saying the divorce was nothing it so that's
what I mean.
I'm were discussing sort oflike the journey around divorce,
that it's not always a linearjourney and you know, I think
it's okay to normalize that.
You know, this is someone I metwhen I was 19 years old.
(18:54):
He was like 21.
I effectively grew up with him,right, only person I ever lived
with at that time.
All of that Then ultimately,with the back and forth and
everything, had a child, and sothere was that, you know, just
sort of like what do I do withthis?
And, you know, does it have tobe final?
There was a piece that I talkabout in the book around.
You know, so much divorce andseparation in my family, so
maybe I could be the one that'sgoing to fix it, you know, and
(19:16):
change the course, right.
And so I put that burden onmyself, which you know now I can
name, you know, and wasn't ableto, as I was sort of going
through it, you know, and so Ithink that's that's a part of
why it was so important for meto be able to lift up my
experience, because I imaginethere's people right now young
(19:39):
women right now, or young peopleright now that are in
relationships, even if it's notmarriage, that are trying to
figure out.
What do I do when you know?
And so I don't know how else toexplain it besides that.
I mean, it's been years.
I'm almost 45 years old.
There's so much that I'velearned since then.
You know what I mean.
But I think that was what wasprimarily coming.
(20:02):
And then, by the time we had achild, then it was well, we have
a child.
You know, I was the product ofa divorce.
I was raised by a single parent.
That is the last thing that Iwanted for my son and his father
.
Same thing that I wanted for myson and his father, same thing,
you know.
And so I was like my gosh,maybe there's just some way.
(20:27):
But I knew there was a day thatcame, and, especially after the
diagnosis of MS, I was like, no, I can't do this.
No, this is not what I'm herefor.
And my son will be better forit, because if his mother is
healing, not only physically butemotionally, and is doing what
she needs to be, well, he'sgoing to have a different type
of mother, different type oflife, than he would if I drowned
(20:47):
in.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
you know the pain of, you know, being in a
relationship that wasn't servingme, so yeah, there were a lot
of things that I appreciatedabout the story, the
relationship with thegrandmother.
I have a soft spot forgrandmothers because I was my
grandmother on bug.
You know it is what it is I'mthe first grandchild and you
know your grandfather, who wasnot your biological grandfather
(21:12):
but was really that grandfather.
I too have a similar experiencewith that Right, and you know
you can't explain it because ifyou want to tell anybody that
you're not related by blood,they would not believe Right.
But there was one particularscene that I even I don't
remember how I shared it withsomebody, but it was just such a
(21:33):
poignant story with your auntwho had the addiction and when
she came to your house and, um,you know, the salt shaker was
the thing that kind of threw heroff or something right, it's
like what do I do with?
this grinder thing, yes, right,and.
And then she didn't come aroundand she said, um, because she
(21:56):
didn't feel like she was withour people, our fit in our
mother?
Well, of course she's not fitin.
We're not drug addicts, youknow like I was just like, oh my
God, oh, you read it, read it.
Yeah, but the reason why itstood out it wasn't for the dig
(22:16):
at your aunt.
I used it in another scenariowhere I gave that example and I
basically said if somebody saidthey don't fit in with you, it's
not, has nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
It's them Right.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That's really what your mother was.
Your mother was saying in thatway and that was just like, oh,
my God, would I probably softenit, but it was.
But it was just like yourmother is right.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
So um, yeah, and it was a choice.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, there were so many things.
I don't want to argue with thebook.
There were so many things.
Your mother and the doctor andyou know patient confidentiality
, just like wait, that wentright out the window, right out
the window.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And I was, you know, in my 20s.
It's not like I was a kid orsomething, a minor man, I don't
know.
But it's so funny that you weretalking about my aunt, my mom's
younger sister, because she washeavy on my mind recently.
Listen, she's still on the road.
(23:28):
She's in her sixties.
She's been, you know, on andoff of drugs since she was
probably in her twenties.
She was in the military, shehad two children, she has
grandchildren.
She'll likely never meet.
She has never met and she'lllikely never meet.
And in this current climate, inthis country right, where ICE
agents are running rampant,that's the first one of the
first people we were thinkingabout and we said listen, I
don't know if she had her greencard on her, I have no idea.
(23:49):
And I said to my mother, itmust've been a few days ago.
I said, you know what, if shegets picked up by an ICE agent
and she's deported, that'sprobably the best thing for her,
back to Jamaica, even thoughshe hasn't been there in decades
, you know.
But she was, she was.
So it's funny that youmentioned that, because she was
just on my mind.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, sclerosis diagnosis and going through that
(24:27):
experience and Mifas where areyou now in that health journey?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
How are you managing that diagnosis?
Well, jamaican isn't fast, soyou know, thankfully, thankfully
, I after three different triesat treatment.
So disease-modifying drugs iswhat an infusion, right.
And actually the first time Ihad the infusion, I think I was
(25:02):
there like eight hours, but nowthey've like made it rapid, so
it's like cut in half, right,and so I go in every six months.
Most days, quite frankly, carryon, I don't even remember.
I have the illness and that's agood thing, and so I knock on
wood.
You know there's some sensationthat I lost in my fingertips
that never came back, so it'slike numb, but I haven't had a
(25:25):
major exacerbation in at leasttwo years and so I am so
grateful for that.
You know, I've had times wheremy youngest son is 14.
I have bonus children too, butmy child is 14 now and when he
was little I would just not bearound and he didn't know where,
because I was in the hospital.
You know, having a relapse andhaving to have, you know, high
(25:48):
dose steroids and all of thisstuff, because, like I would
walk around and I can't feel myleg, but I haven't had anything
like that now.
Now MS is one of these likenasty little things to me
because it's, you know, peoplelook at me and they don't know
what I got.
They don't know I have anything.
They wouldn't know unless Itell them.
And if I have days that are good, then sometimes I even forget,
(26:09):
but it's one of those thingsthat's unpredictable, right.
I have something calledrelapsing, remitting.
So arguably I'm in a remission,right, and so I just every day,
I take one day at a time, I tryto enjoy the heck out of life,
and so I told you about thattrip, that solo journey to
Greece.
I ain't stopped traveling sinceI had to take a brief pause
(26:29):
during the pandemic, but I hadbucket list trips to everywhere
I wanted to go.
I went to Bali, indonesia, Iwent to South Africa, morocco,
and we are traveling, we'regoing to Portugal next month and
Barcelona.
So, you know, I take every day,you know, at a time, and just
try to enjoy every, every partof life Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I mean, the trip that you took to the desert was
funny.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That was a test drive , right?
Yes, oh, maybe I could do this.
I could travel alone, I coulddo this, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, it was funny, but I do appreciate the telling
of this story.
I do recommend people read thisbook.
I think that's why memoirs arejust so interesting, because
it's not highly fictionalizedand outlandish.
It is real life and theperspective of being from the
(27:30):
Caribbean.
There are stories that I hearover and over on this podcast
what it means to be the child ofan immigrant, a Jamaican
immigrant, a Caribbean immigrantand how you show up in the
world because of that.
And I really appreciated thatnuance, relationship with the
(27:55):
father and all of that.
If we keep talking, we're goingto give away the book and I'm
not going to do that here, sowhy don't you tell everybody
where they can find the book?
And yeah, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Sure, sure, thank you .
So the book is available onamazoncom, barnesandnoblecom,
archwaypublishingcom, and soit's available in paperback and
hardcover.
I do have an IG right now it'sstill unparalyzedmemoircom, and
so you know, I invite, you know,connection, and you know I have
(28:25):
really been in a space ofmentoring, you know where I can,
mentoring young people,mentoring women that are
similarly situated.
So, you know, happy to connectand to be helpful, however, I
can.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Wonderful.
I was going to say Danielle,but Nicole.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I know, I know, listen, I've been married twice
right, and so I've had threedifferent last names in my life,
right?
So even going through that,there's like an identity shift,
right, my maiden name, my firstmarried name, and then changing
it, so yeah, but then with thewhole name thing it's been, it's
been different, but this hasbeen a wonderful part of the
(29:05):
journey of sort of comingforward and becoming one person,
so I appreciate it Before Ileave.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I don't think I asked this question.
How long I know you startedwriting the book when you're
going on a trip, but how longdid it take the publishing
process take for you to get thisbook out?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, actually the publishing process was one of
the easiest pieces because Iwent with a hybrid publisher, so
with self-publishing, however,I didn't have to do like nearly
anything on my own right.
It was a company that did, youknow, the binding, the printing,
the cover, the whatever Right,and so they really did a lot for
(29:45):
me.
So it probably took two months,if that.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
And how long did it take you to write?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
write, oh, to actually write it and edit, and
you know, rewrite and all that.
That was more like about fouryears.
I would say, you know, rewriteand all that.
That was more like about fouryears.
I would say I worked with twodifferent professional editors.
First with a developmentaleditor and that person was so
instrumental.
She actually was with me when Iwas still in New York, was
(30:12):
living in New York, and then shemoved to Prague.
I was like, where are you going?
But she saw a different storythan the one that I saw.
She said that she, I thought mything was about you know, ms
and the divorce and the this andthat.
And she said no, this is aboutyour relationship with men.
I said, excuse me, and thechapter that's now first was not
the first chapter, so it wassuch an interesting thing.
And then I worked with anothereditor that you know helped with
(30:36):
line editing and everything youknow.
So it was really a process.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, I really liked it.
So thank you for sharing andcarry on.
Friends audience, please gopick up Unparalyzed.
It's something that I think youwill enjoy, especially if you
live here in the diaspora.
You will get the perspective ofsomeone who lives, understands
(31:03):
your community.
All of that good stuff.
So thank you so much and muchsuccess to you and until next
time, as I love to say, walkgood.
Thank you so much, Garyann.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Thank you.
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