February 4, 2025 • 58 mins
This episode features Jamaican American, Natalie Bennett who shares her journey from working at Google to entrepreneurship after facing layoffs. The conversation highlights redefining success, finding one's purpose, and the importance of personal leadership.
• Exploring success beyond accolades
• Understanding the impact of layoffs
• Emphasizing the significance of personal "why"
• Overcoming scarcity mindset
• The role of personal branding and networking
• Embracing full identity in professional spaces
• Lived experiences as a unique asset
• Encouraging resilience and self-discovery
The episode also highlights the importance of maintaining a balance between professional ambitions and cultural identity, encouraging listeners to embrace authenticity in all facets of life. Natalie's insights into personal development and overcoming insecurities offer a powerful reminder of the value of building relationships and networks proactively. As she reflects on her journey and the unique strengths shaped by her experiences, Natalie inspires others to be audacious, to leverage their cultural heritage, and to embrace their wholeness. This episode is not just a conversation; it is an inspiring call to action for anyone seeking transformation through self-discovery and empowerment.
Connect with Natalie Bennett: Website | Instagram
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everyone, Welcome to another episode of
Carry On Friends.
I am so excited today to haveNatalie join me on the podcast.
Natalie, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much for having me, Carrie-Anne.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Wonderful and I'm excited about the topic we're
going to get into.
But before we do that, whydon't you tell the community of
friends a little bit about whoyou are, Caribbean country you
represent, and a little bitabout the work you do?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Okay, I'm going to start out with where I'm from
the big bad, the one and onlyblack, green and gold Jamaica.
So, as we said, my name isNatalie Bennett.
I am currently in a season oftransition in my life.
Right, I call myself amulti-hyphenate because there's
so many things that I am doingthat I have done that I want to
do so.
By profession, I'm in IT, so Ileft Jamaica, came here for my
(00:55):
master's, ended up working atGoogle as a senior product
manager.
That's my last gig, I will callit.
During this year, there's beentransitions with layoffs, of
tech, and that has landed mesquarely in the seat of being an
entrepreneur.
And that takes me into mycurrent business, which is as a
(01:16):
coach.
I am the Thrive Mindset Coach,and what that means right now is
I have spent a lot of timetrying to figure myself out.
I talk about the fact that mylast gig was at Google.
I have been what everyone wouldcall successful.
I will call myself successful,but there came a time, despite
overcoming all the challengesgetting to this place, that I
(01:38):
wasn't completely fulfilled, andI spent a lot of time trying to
figure that out, and a part ofthat was me saying okay, god,
what do you want me to do withthis life that you've given me?
And so I have come up with asmy purpose is that I want other
people, like I am doing, to walkin their God-given identities
right, whatever that looks likefor them, and then I want them
(02:00):
to enjoy life while they'redoing it.
And so what does that look like?
How do I go about doing that?
Coaching is one of because Isaid I'm a multi-hyphenate one
of the things that I know I canuse to reach people, in a way,
and inspire, uplift and empowerthem to go after what has
already been given to them andthey were created to be and to
(02:22):
do.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
This is why I wanted to have this conversation with
you, so we're going to pull on acouple threads.
First, let's talk about thelayoffs, because again it's in
tech, there's a downturn.
And walk me through thisreconciliation of you just said,
like you have been successful,but even though you have been
(02:47):
successful, you may not havealways seen yourself as
successful.
And then now this layoffcommander, you're like Lord G,
you know.
So talk to me about that, youknow, because that's something
that I've identified with.
So talk to me about how you arereconciling this with a layoff
that is emotionally,psychologically, financially,
(03:11):
adding stress to aspects of yourlife.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So that's the funny thing, it actually isn't, and
I'm going to tell you why itisn't.
This is not my first layoff inmy life.
This is like my third layoff inmy life, right?
And so if we go back about like, what does success look like?
What does it mean?
What does that look like for me?
I think I was lucky enough tostart this journey a few years
ago, so when the layoff happenedI was almost ready for it.
(03:36):
I was almost like tellingmyself I already said to my
friend early last year when theywere doing layoffs.
I said if I get laid off, I'mnot going to look for another
job.
That was already in my psycheand that's because I had done
the work to go back about notfeeling successful.
I think it comes from how I grewup, because I grew up poor from
(03:58):
Kingston, jamaica didn't have alot ghetto life.
Nothing much is expected tocome out of those communities.
I was being led and driven byjust coming out of scarcity.
The thing that was driving mewas coming out of scarcity,
proving that I was not going toend up a teenage mom, proving
that I could make it.
There were these things insideof me that I didn't even realize
(04:21):
that was driving me.
So every time I would go alittle bit further.
I'm like wait, am I far enoughaway from where I started?
So my mind wasn't evenprocessing the success it was
processing.
I'm no longer poor, I'm nolonger the person they thought I
was going to be and sadly, italso meant that I was still
trying to prove myself to otherpeople.
(04:43):
So even my definition of successwas incorrect, because every
time I got to a level I wouldlook at the people who would
have said something to say am Isuccessful now?
And if they didn't give me theresponse I was looking for, it
meant I had not arrived right.
And so there was a lot ofunlearning I had to do and to
recover myself and to reallyfigure out, like I said, who am
(05:06):
I?
Going back to my God-givenidentity?
Who am I?
What was I called to do?
How do I want to show up inthis world?
And what does that look likefor Natalie, not for my mom, not
for my family, not for thecommunity, not for my church,
what does that look like for me?
And so that was really theepiphany where I can look back
(05:26):
and say I am successful, like Ihave done so much, even if I
didn't have the accolades behindmy name.
I have done so much that,within my own right, I have
lived a successful life.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Man, you gave me a list.
I'm like scribbling.
I can't even tip myself offmute properly to catch up.
So, of all the things, I'mgoing to go to the part that I
feel like it connect, like whenShrimpy knuckled somebody you
understand what I'm saying Likethis version of success that is
(06:01):
defined by accolades, that isdefined by accolades, and when
you are looking at your personalsuccess, you're looking at
accolades.
What, then, is success definedas, or should be defined as,
(06:22):
outside of accolades?
Because we're not sayingaccolades isn't success, it is a
reward as a result of success,right, and that's one thing.
But what should we be lookingat to evaluate success?
And I'll be very honest.
So we're in 2025.
It's been 10 years since Ilaunched the first episode of
(06:43):
the podcast and, as I waslooking ahead, I was like all
right, I'm celebrating these 10years, but what's my success?
I've been doing this for 10years.
I don't have tens and thousandsof followers, I don't have this
(07:03):
, and I had to think of what'smy impact, you know, not just on
others, but on myself, and thatwas a very hard exercise
because I honestly know whatyou're talking about.
When I have time for look past.
Success is just, it's like achecklist Boom, check off the
(07:24):
list after the next one.
I have not really basked in thesuccess.
I have not been like, oh wow,yes, let's boggle to that Like
nothing.
So how should we be looking atsuccess One?
But how do we take a beat tobask in the success, little and
(07:49):
big, because the little onesbuild on towards the bigger ones
, so agreed.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So success is not a destination, just like life is
in the destination.
It's a journey.
So I say to people, you have todefine it for yourself and in
order to say if you'resuccessful, you have to think
about where you're going.
And this is where it comes intohaving a vision for your life,
having goals that you set andcoming back to what's your why.
(08:18):
You have a podcast.
You're on this.
Everybody's like the numbers,the likes, the X, y, z.
If that is your measure ofsuccess, then you're successful
in your own right.
Nobody can take that away fromyou.
You mentioned impact earlier.
Is that what is your why?
Right, and so it comes back toreally being clear about why are
you doing the things thatyou're doing?
Are you doing it to be liked?
(08:39):
Are you doing it to becomefamous?
Are you doing it because youwant to?
You believe there's a story.
There's going to be at leastone person who's going to hear a
story on your show and that'sgoing to change that person's
life.
So for you, you're successful.
There have been times on thiseven entrepreneurial journey
that I'm on.
Now I have to get up and sayNatalie, what is your?
(08:59):
Why?
Have you hit your?
Why?
Yet?
Is there somebody out there whois waiting for your why?
And I said, right, I want tohelp people to walk in their
God-given identity and to enjoytheir life.
There's.
If it's even one person,starting with myself, then I've
done the work right and so, andit's that's a hard thing to do,
by the way, and I'm not sayingthat disappointment doesn't come
(09:21):
and you don't look around andgo like, is this really what I
should be measuring myself by?
But it comes to for me, I am ata place where I want to live
fulfilled.
I remember I got to this reallyweird point in my life where I
was saying to my therapist Iwould give up all this money in
the world to not feel the way Ifeel right now.
Right, and I said it out offrustration and anger, but it
(09:44):
made me realize that somethingelse, something deeper, was at
play and what I was callingsuccess was not filling me up.
And if we look at society, wesee so many people who are
successful and they choose tostep out of this life.
We see them as successful andthey're alcoholics, and I'm not
(10:04):
saying that those things are inany way condemning them, but
it's because what we believe isgonna make us happy.
We get there and we realizewe're not fulfilled, and that's
because we're chasing after thewrong things, we're not feeding
our truest selves, we're nottalking to what is gonna feed
our soul, what makes us uniquely, us, right.
We're not being our truestright, we're not being our true
(10:26):
ourselves, we're not beingauthentic.
And so we show up and everyoneelse is like, oh, and we're like
I don't even like who I am whenI'm doing this, right.
And so it really comes down tospending time being clear on who
you are, what you carry, whatdo you want to do in this world?
How do you want to show up andbe willing to be true to that,
(10:46):
even if it doesn't look likewhat everybody else around you
is doing?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And again, I'm telling you I know it's not easy
, it's a hard thing to do, butit's worth doing, and that's why
I do the work that I do rightnow the part of it not looking
or making sense to anyone, Ithink is one part that I want to
emphasize, because for a verylong time, well-meaning,
(11:12):
well-intentioned people will sayyou should do this, you should
do that.
I'm like I don't really want todo that Because I know it's not
for me.
I know it's what other peoplehave done to be successful, but
it's not what I want to do.
But not feeling it, and youknow there are moments you'll
question yourself and say did Imake the right decision?
And then sometimes you have tojust say you know what, just
(11:36):
follow your mind.
As we said, just do that andjust keep on it.
So you know there are times whenyou are even second guessing
the decisions that you've made,like this is for me, especially
when the results not coming asfast right as you want them to,
yeah, yeah.
And you look left and right andsay, hmm, natalie, I'll go on
(11:58):
with things.
You're sure we shouldn't dothis, that type of thing.
So I do want to stress that.
Now you said something aboutyou know when Nendi start with
the layoff and you're like youknow what?
If they do it?
I know I don't want anotherfull-time job.
Talk to me about some of thatwork that you've done, that
(12:19):
groundwork.
So when that came time for thelayoff, you're like I'm good, I
already think through this.
Like, talk, talk to me a littlebit about some of that inner
work that you had to do.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I probably hit rock bottom and thought there's
nowhere else to go at some pointpandemic life and everything
else there was just too muchgoing on and I started to like
sit with myself a lot and bewilling to have that
conversation and therapy.
We're Black people, caribbeanpeople, black people Like
therapy is a good thing Even asa Christian, therapy is a good
(12:54):
thing.
And so I recognized that Ididn't have all the answers and
so I went to therapy and mytherapist was great at helping
to inspire me and to have me dothe work in those sessions.
But then I had to take itoutside of that.
I started to shift things in mylife.
When I tell you, I shift, firstthings I did was I moved and I
(13:15):
moved into a new environment.
Right, because the environmentthat we're in will either be our
cage or our community, or itgives us choice, right.
So I changed my environment.
I just have to shift.
I changed my wardrobe, likeeverything that I was.
It's almost like I was peelingaway layers of myself to find
the real me, and that meanteverything in me and around me
(13:37):
had to change and I had to startto think about what was driving
my decisions.
And again, like I said, that'sby no means easy work, it's not
done but I had to do decisions.
And again, like I said, that'sby no means easy work, it's not
done, but I had to do that.
And, as a person of faith, thatwas a lot of spending time with
God and really asking him.
Okay, god, I could come to youone more time and say, god
helped me to keep my job, or Godhelped me to give me another
(13:59):
job, but I decided to sit withhim to say, okay, god, I need
your revelation, I need yourclarity.
I needed to tell me what do youwant from me?
Not bless this thing I have inmy hand, but what do you want
from me?
And out of that, all of thesedifferent things started to
evolve.
I remember one of the thingsthat came to me when I was going
through this transition is thatthere's a version of me in the
(14:22):
future.
That is okay.
There's a version of me that isin the future that, like, she's
figured out everything, she hasall the answers for me and I
need to get to her.
And so this thing came up to meabout like me to her, her to me
.
She's saying to me, natalie,where I am standing right now.
Everything has worked out, wefigured things out and you're in
(14:44):
the right place.
You just need to come and meetme here and I made a commitment
in that moment to her that I wasgoing to do all the work, I was
going to make sure that I gotto her Right.
And it was me to her, her to medestiny calling.
And so I had this thing.
Of that there's more, there isa, there's a better version of
me, there's a place where thethings that are like not okay
(15:07):
today are going to be okay atsome point.
And those were the things thatagain, but it it took work.
I hate when I not that I hate,but like when I share this story
or I share my story.
It might come across easy, butI want people to know it's not
easy.
It's tears, it's you're losingpeople in your life.
People don't understand you,like.
(15:27):
There's a lot of work to trulystand in the fullness of who you
are and becoming the bestversion of yourself.
That became.
I was journaling, I was going totherapy, I was being vulnerable
with people because I'm astrong person.
People look at me and I'm astrong person.
I'm a leader in my own rightand again, all the things that
I've done.
So people look at you and go,oh you strong, you have it going
(15:49):
on and I had to start to bevulnerable to say I can't be the
caretaker for the familyanymore, I can't be the nurturer
anymore, I don't have all theanswers for everyone.
You're going to have to standin your own place so that I can
become truly strong so I canhelp you.
So it's like it's really a lotof work and it's ongoing work.
It's honest work that startswith you being honest with the
(16:11):
person in the mirror.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Wow.
I just want to emphasize toeveryone listening this is very
hard work, this is.
It sounds so easy, but it'shard.
It's like you know, you eat theorange and you turn the inside
out and you know it's.
You know, sometimes you'reyou're, you're not even proud of
what you see when you are inthose moments, in seclusion with
(16:36):
God, and you get therevelations about the things
that you've been trying to proveor the things that, like you
said earlier, you know, move faraway from okay, all right now
I'm not a teenage mom, I'm this.
You know.
You start to realize thatyou've sometimes you've been
(16:57):
building things on a shakyfoundation and now you have to
find a new foundation, all ofthese things.
And so, as we start doing thiswork or anyone who's listening,
who's interested in doing thiswork the first thing is your why
, right, that's the first thingthat you said.
(17:18):
There's something else that youtalked about, which is it's
very broad, but I want us tocome back to it.
You know, you said God'spurpose for your life.
Boy, I tell you God's purposeof my life.
It shifts for me personally,Like God said to this one minute
, and then I was telling someoneelse this, like this is the
(17:41):
assignment, and then theassignment shifts.
So what would you say tosomeone who said, well, I don't
know God's purpose in my life.
How do I even find that out?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, something you just said.
As you were asking the question, the first thing that popped
into my head is that the purposeis different from the
assignment.
So your assignment can change,the way you show up in, your
purpose can change, right, butat the core you're still doing
the same thing.
So, as an example, I thinkpeople think that I thought this
too, that this purpose was thisbig thing.
(18:12):
I had to do this big, hugething.
It was going to be so big.
The whole world would know.
The skies would open up and belike ah, you know, that's not it
.
What gifts have you been given?
I say this to my students I'vedone, like you know, I've done
women's group and I've done mycoaching business, and I
remember I always say to themwhat are the things that
(18:32):
naturally come to you?
Naturally, you might go to workand everybody wants to come and
talk to you and you give them aword of encouragement, right?
You might be the person who hasthe gift of gab, right?
Like, think about.
Like, just take a pause andthink about what is that?
You do naturally when you thinkabout the thing that you can do
(18:53):
all day long and get lost in itand it doesn't even feel like
work, and I know people say like, oh, if you find a thing that
you love, you never have to worka day in your life.
You got to work hard when youfind that thing right.
So it's not completely true,but the essence of it is it just
flows out of you, it'seffortless.
And when you start to find thatyou're doing things effortless,
(19:14):
you might be just like, oh, Ilike to see people learn, and so
you end up teaching, you don't.
You take the student who no oneelse wants to teach, and you'll
have the patience to walk themthrough it Right.
And then you're like that'syour purpose.
Your purpose is to help peopleto understand big things in
their own way.
So I think people are lookingfor, oh, this great thing about
(19:34):
my purpose.
It's what do you do naturally?
What has God given you in yourhands?
You know he said to Jeremiahwhat is in your hand right?
So what is already in your hand?
What do you do naturally?
If you're a homemaker and youare a good cook, you can cook
right, which means you'refeeding your family, you're
feeding them, you're making themcomfortable.
(19:55):
That just might be your gift.
You know God has given you thegift of creativity and you're
able to cook.
So now you cook at church.
When they need to have apotluck, who they call into the
mac and cheese, that could justbe.
Your purpose is to bring comfortinto other people's life.
We're all here, fitly framedtogether, for a thing we can't
all be the sun, then who's goingto be the moon?
Who's going to be the earth?
(20:16):
Who's going to be the tree?
Every part has its own functionand no function is bigger than
the other.
So when you think about yourpurpose, just think about who
you are and what you do.
Right, no one else can be you.
We're trying to be everybodyelse but our true selves, and
when we start to be our trueselves, our purpose will just
shine.
You wouldn't have to ask, like,what your purpose is, it will
(20:37):
just be there.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
All right.
So this is a good segue intothe initial topic that I wanted
to talk to you about.
Right, you know purpose andleadership, right Initial
reactions on those two words,how we interpret them, and what
do you think of when you thinkof purpose and leadership?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So I think purpose and leadership, you could say
they're not the same thing,right?
They're kind of like twoseparate concepts that work well
together.
Right?
If your purpose is to lead,then lead.
If your purpose is to follow,then follow, right?
So, like, you have to figureout, like, where do I fit?
In the grand scheme of things?
There's something and I don'tknow why I'm going all into the
Bible.
That was not my intention whenI prepared for this, but it says
(21:25):
that one plants, one waters andone harvest.
Right, going back to purpose,everyone has their job.
So I think it's difficult, like, what is my job?
That's it.
What do I need to do Now whenit comes to leadership?
Leadership, the way we've alwaysthought about it in the realms
of corporate, it's position ofpower or some sort of title.
Title doesn't mean purpose.
(21:46):
You can slap a title on anyone.
You've given them a positionthat they're not fit for.
You've given them a positionthat they're not the right
person, it's true.
So you can give a person atitle, but that don't mean that
what is in them can actuallybring that thing to pass.
You've seen people being givenCEO positions and in three
months they're no longer in theposition because you gave them
the title, but they didn't havewhat was needed to bring the
(22:08):
business, or whatever it is,where it needed to go.
So I believe that if you're inthe right place, then we talk
about what leadership reallyshould be right, and a simple
definition of what leadership isis where you can take people
from where they are to wherethey need to be or want to be
and make sure that they'reenjoying themselves along the
way.
So, which means you're notpushing them, you're not
(22:30):
challenging them, but you're notpushing them.
You're not a dictator, becauseit's really about people
challenging them, but you're notpushing them.
You're not a dictator becauseit's really about people.
Leadership is about servingpeople right, and so you're
helping serve another person'spurpose by being a leader.
So if I were to put themtogether, it's not like, oh,
your purpose ends up being aleader, no, it's as a leader,
you're helping other people tofulfill their own purpose
(22:52):
because you're getting them towhere they need to be.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yes, and I think the call out of what you said was
it's important for us tounderstand that leadership means
different things in certaindifferent contexts.
In work it means another thing,but we all carry this sense of
this essence of leadership, evenif we don't have a title right.
(23:17):
So I am not the CEO of mycompany, I'm not the manager or
senior VP of anyone, but withinus, as you said, like I am
guiding my colleague to get thisthing done right or whatever it
is.
So talk to me about the mindsetshift right, especially for you
(23:37):
know our audience is Caribbean,american that mindset shift of
thinking of leadership, of justposition of power, versus where
you I like that definition whereleadership is, how are you
helping others You're in thatyou know.
To use another term that'soften overused and also often
misunderstood servant leadership.
(23:58):
How does this show up in ourday to day?
And what mindset shift foranyone who's still having
trouble recognizing thispersonal definition of
leadership.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
You said earlier, you're not the CEO of your
company, but you're the CEO ofyou.
It starts with leading yourself, right, and so the question is
where do you want to go?
Can you see a vision of whereyou are supposed to be in the
future for your life?
And I'm the Thrive MindsetCoach, and so for me, everything
kind of lands on how are youthinking and how are you seeing
(24:30):
things?
Right, because, as a manthinketh, so is he right.
And whatever is happening inour mind is going to start to
shape our reality.
Right, because how is this, asa man think it?
So is he right.
And whatever is happening inour mind is going to start to
shape our reality.
Right, the mindset shiftbecomes start with where you
have the most control, which isover yourself.
Right, so you know your leader.
If you're a mother, if you're adaughter, like whatever, again,
(24:51):
the basics of who you are.
Right.
You could be a teenager.
Right, it could be somebodywatching this with their child,
or like there's a teenager orsomeone who is not yet even in
the working world, and they'relike, oh, but I can't be a
leader until I get to corporate,which is not true.
I'd say this if you look at theplayground, right, you can kind
of see who the leaders areearly, right, those who are born
to be leaders.
(25:11):
Because to be leaders?
Because if you look at the kidson the playground, there's
going to be this one kid whostarts to do something and move
in a direction and everyonestarts to follow them and then
they become the leader of thepack.
They didn't even try to do itand so, even if we go back to
those times and we're not tryingto like, please, anyone, prove
to ourself anything, and thosekids on the playground who end
up being the natural leaders isbecause they're being themselves
(25:33):
, right.
So, really, when you think aboutthe mindset shift is to like,
how do I lead my own life andhow do I become the example of
who I want to be?
When I go to church, when I goto work, when I'm with my
friends, I think is how themindset shift starts to happen
in our lives, or like, that'show it happened for me anyways.
And so when I think aboutleading my life, it's being
(25:55):
intentional, right, it's againhaving vision for my life, being
intentional about what I'mdoing, right, doing what I said
I was going to do, so beingcommitted to what I'm supposed
to be doing right and sobuilding the characteristics in
me which are really just thequalities of leadership.
Because, listen, not everyone'sgoing to be a good leader, not
(26:16):
everyone is called to leadeither.
Right, in those very bigpositions where you have big,
you have responsibility.
I always say leadership isresponsibility, it's not rank.
The higher you go, the morethings you become responsible
for, you become accountable for.
So I'm not sure why peoplechase some of these things.
You know how muchresponsibility it is to why
people chase them these days.
I'm like you know how muchresponsibility it is to be a
(26:38):
leader in these places.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I'm going to interject a Jamaican proverb the
higher the monkey climb, themore exposed.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Exactly so, like in my mind.
I'm just like, why is everyonelike, even like at church?
I'm like, why does everyonewant a title in church?
I'm like you know how much, youknow how much responsibility
that is to God for his people.
I'm like y'all need to slowdown.
It's a responsibility, right,and so it really comes to.
So shifting your mindset isbuilding the characteristics of
leadership in your own life, inyour own home, right?
(27:10):
How are you leading If you havelittle brothers and sisters?
Like when people look at you,do they want to follow what
you're doing?
Would they want to emulate you,and is it a good thing for them
?
So it's really recognized that,like, before you get a title,
you have to be the person andlike even in, like.
So in my old organizations thatI worked in, you know, coming
(27:30):
from Jamaica, so talk aboutCaribbean Jamaicans and
leadership right In Jamaica, youwork hard.
Somebody says, hey, you workhard and you get promoted, you
get more money.
That's how you go up the ladder, right.
That's how, when I was there,you work hard, not in America,
not in America.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yes, that is why I started this podcast, because it
was this seismic shift inmeritocracy you work hard and so
you have a merit, you get yourentitlement.
You know in America, no, I'mnot saying work Me, I have to go
over here, go friend up,natalie, and you know, work the
relationships you know.
(28:11):
For me, natalie Putina, goodwork Like and I'm simplifying it
it's a little bit layered anddepending on industry and
company, but boy, what a shiftit was.
That was one of the key thingswhy I started this podcast 10
years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Because of that shift , and it's a shift.
So I came here like 14, 15years ago.
So I worked in Jamaica.
I had a whole life in Jamaicabefore I packed everything up to
come to America in search ofthis better life.
And so the question is, and soI was saying in my old job, you
had to be showing them that youwere already at the next level
to be promoted.
(28:49):
So you didn't get promoted justbecause you're done well at the
level you were at Right, justbecause you're done well at the
level you were at right.
And so, even as we think aboutleadership, it's like how do you
continue to like, have personaldevelopment?
How are you growing?
How are you showing that youare ready for the next level?
So, before you want the title,walk it out.
Walk it out and be the person.
So when the title come, it'sjust an affirmation and a
(29:12):
validation of who you alreadyare Right.
And there's so many ways that wecan build the characteristics I
said, like it's in our homes,it's in our communities, it's in
our friendships.
I'll be the one to say to myfriends, like, listen, all y'all
, you keep talking about thegoals you want, you want the
soft life.
I remember a few months ago, Isaid, like, let's go to the park
, bring some ice cream and bringyour journals.
(29:33):
We're going to start doing someplanning because I can't be the
only one who is doing all thisinner work.
And I'm going and like, I'm,like, I'm going to go, and I
know for a fact I'm going toleave them behind.
If, like, if I keep growing,I'm going to outgrow them.
It's not a matter that I don'tlove them anymore, but it means
that where I'm at, I can'tconnect with you at the same
(29:53):
level anymore.
And then you have, oh, youthink you're better than me, and
all that, which is like, youknow what?
I want to take you with me.
And so it's like, let's go tothe park and we talked about
life and we talked about thingsand we journaled and we made
plans and we, you know, we weredoing all of those things.
And so leadership, again, is notabout titles.
It's about being able to seethe future in some way shape, or
(30:14):
it's about being able to seethe future in some way shape or
form.
You don't have to have beenthere, have done that, but you
are willing to look beyond yourpresent situation, because
leaders are visionaries, leadersare strategic.
Leaders are problem solvers.
You know what, like most peoplewho are like from poverty, you
are already leaders.
When your mother can figure outhow to make spam go 10 ways to
(30:34):
Sunday, when your mother canmake that hard-o'-bread last for
however long right, you know,got your bed hungry or anything
when your mother can make it,she was showing the qualities of
leadership.
And so I think the mindsetshift is to really break these
very big concepts down to thingsthat we can understand, make
them really practical, and thatway, when you're thinking, oh,
(30:58):
am I a leader or not?
If you took care of your littlebrothers and sisters when your
mother had to go to work, youwere a leader.
And so taking those experiencesand saying, ok, what did I have
to do to keep them in line alittle bit, right, what did you
learn from that?
And don't just put the smallthings aside.
Oh yeah, I was just babysittingfor a little bit.
(31:18):
It's not easy to babysitanybody, right?
And so the mindset shift, as wecome back to the question, is
really about breaking theconcept down and seeing yourself
there and saying what kind ofleader do I want to be?
Like I used to say to people andI said this to my manager I
don't want to manage people,because I understand the weight
of managing people.
(31:38):
I understand when I make adecision at work it affects them
in their lives, in yourchildren's life, in their family
.
They go home, they can't sleep.
I've seen and heard and I'vementored people, so I get it and
so I've never wanted to be apeople manager.
So my way of leading is I'll bean IC, an individual
contributor, I will leadbusiness objectives and I will
lead processes and I'm just likethat's the kind of leader I
(32:01):
want to be.
Now that's not my calling, soyou know it doesn't work that
way, but that's what I've alwayssaid, because I will choose the
way I want to show up as aleader and not force myself into
spaces and places before I amready, qualified and equipped to
do the job well.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
So I keep wanting to come back to this work
environment.
So let's focus there, and Iwant us to dig a little bit
deeper on how we show up at workand what does that look like?
Because you know a lot ofpeople.
They get their epiphanies or arealization while doing work.
(32:40):
Right, they either come to arealization that you know what
this is not.
It is not for me.
I need to be a social worker.
I don't know, I'm just throwingstuff out there.
So, when you look at thedissatisfaction people are
experiencing at work, what's oneof the first things that you I
mean other than what's your why?
(33:01):
And some people, why couldsimply mean I need to pay my
bill, I'm a mortgage, I'm a rent, right?
So what's the one thing youwould say to someone who I'm not
happy at my job?
And for them to start pullingon the different threads to find
out why.
To get to where you were whenyou knew that if the layoffs
come, you are going to take thelayoff.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I think it's taking risks right and being open to
change.
So, first of all, let's take astep back, if you're on.
Sometimes we're unfulfilled inour jobs because it's not
because we don't love our jobsand we're not in the right place
, like there's just a wholebunch of stuff happening, right.
Sometimes we're unhappy in ourlives or we're unhappy in our
lives, we end up having jobs.
We need to figure out, likewhat is happening?
Do a bad manager?
Are you in a toxic environment?
(33:46):
Like we need to.
We need to ask ourselves thesequestions.
Like you ask yourself are youin a toxic environment?
And it's just not good for you,right?
I remember hearing someone saythe other day at a session I was
at is that for the first timein her career, she got like the
lowest grade she could get,right and that had left her like
self-doubt and all of thesethings were rising up in her.
(34:07):
And, luckily for her, she wentand she spoke to someone and
they're like oh no, it's not you, it's that manager.
You have the wrong manager,right?
So I think it's spending timeto do that investigation, but
that only happens if you've doneall the other work.
So let's go back a little bitabout the transition from like
working in Jamaica, you work outand get to work and you,
america, you work at them, getto work and you make it and you
grow the ladder and you go upthere and you know you're in
(34:28):
America.
In America that there's adifferent system.
You have to think about like,what's your, the concept of like
, what is your brand Right, whatis your brand?
And you have to always bethinking about like, what do I
want to be known for?
Right, and you have to alwaysbe trying to like, build your
brand while you're there.
So the question is is it thejob that you're doing that is no
(34:50):
longer challenging you, that'scausing you to be frustrated?
Is it the environment?
Is this not the rightenvironment for you?
So, like, you have to answerthose questions and you need to
have the people around you thatcan help you to answer the
questions too, because you'regoing to have blind spots, right
, and we don't like I think yousaid it earlier too about like,
because you talk up to the bossand you're like there's a person
and there's a person, you're afriend, and all of this stuff
(35:12):
that can make or break us, causewe I I'm going to talk for
myself.
I came to America and I was justlike when I lived in Jamaica I
don't, I'm going to use a niceone, I don't brown nose, right,
I'm not a American friend.
So when I was in Jamaica, whenthe first time I got laid off, I
was like, well, if you know, ifI'm not going to be the best
friend and she doesn't know mybusiness, and if I don't take
the work, then I'm not going totake the work.
(35:33):
I'm going to tell you as it is.
I was a different person, right, I was like I'll tell you as it
is.
You know, you cannot was me inJamaica.
So I came here and I was justlike me, not network with nobody
, because you know networking isnot for me.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And wait, if network isn't one thing, the other thing
that I've seen and this is partof things that we I've covered
too is me no one the organizedplay date me no one go to hang
out with no core after thing.
So that's another one where,ooh, they might have events
where me no want go, me no likethat Right.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
So really we have like you're shooting yourself.
Okay Listen, I was on an eventthe other day and I said it's a
game.
For the longest time I did notwant to play the game because
I'm like that is not who I am,this is not who I want to be.
I'm not going to play this gamebecause, again, come from
Jamaica, I'm going to have around nose.
I'm not doing it, but that hurtme in the early parts of my
career and it took me a longtime to figure those things out.
(36:36):
So it hurts, right.
And this is where it comes tolike you have to put the
alignment in and understand whyyou're doing something and being
willing to know what yourboundaries are.
So, and there's something yousaid earlier that I want to kind
of go back to, as I'm in thisspace is sometimes the reason
why we don't go for more is ourown insecurities.
So we'll say the other day Iheard God say to me Leslie, stop
(37:01):
playing small.
I came off of a call withsomebody.
They reached out to me forsomething and when I came off
the call it says stop playingsmall.
Because I was hiding away.
So sometimes we don't want tonetwork because we think, oh, my
accent is going to throw me offthat used to happen to me.
Or I don't know what I'm goingto say to these people.
Like I don't even, I don't fitin here.
Like you're telling yourselfall these things in your head, I
(37:22):
don't fit in.
You know, they don't look likeme, they won't understand me.
Like I don't know what I'mgoing to say, like, and so we
need to get a little bit overourselves.
I know it's hard.
Get over ourselves to say thisis why the inner work before and
the personal development isimportant.
Because you're like I havesomething to offer.
I am going to insert myselfinto this conversation, even if
(37:46):
it's just to listen and nod andbe like whatever, right.
So we need to be willing tostep out of our comfort zones a
little bit, stop playing small,step into the room and find out
where we actually fit right.
So networking is not all bad.
Don't go into the first time yougo because, ooh, I want to
leave this team and it's toolate.
(38:07):
If, when you need the bridge,you're trying to build it, it's
too late, you're going to drown,it ain't going to happen.
You could get lucky, right.
So they need to kind of likebuild a network ahead of time,
build their brand, buildallyship.
There's something called thepersonal boardroom.
Have people like again, I startwith you, there's the business
(38:27):
of you have a personal boardroom, people that you can go to to
say, hey, tell me if it's me,tell me where I'm falling short
and when you have done all andif there's so much that you need
to do.
This is why I come, come andI'll help you, to help you
through it.
But there's so much that youneed to do.
But when you you get to theroot cause of the problem, then
you can make a decision.
So I'm dissatisfied because mymanager isn't the right manager
(38:51):
for me and so what I need to dois find another role in this
company.
Or it is that this work doesn'tchallenge me anymore.
Maybe I need to ask my managerfor some more challenging work.
Maybe it is that I am justfrustrated because all the
things happening in my life howcan I upskill?
(39:11):
Maybe I can learn bettercommunication skills.
So what do I need to changeabout me to be able to better
show up in this space?
So it's not always an easy.
Oh, I'm well-loved up, butwe're going to lift the job
right and all we do is take thebad behavior and the issues that
we did not deal with from onejob to the next job.
(39:31):
You ever hear them people thatway every job.
Them go something wrong withthe place where them work.
Like everywhere we go, I dopeople them problem.
I feel them reason why it noworkouts.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
It isn't always them, it's true.
But there's something else thatI wanted to come back to.
So I definitely know that youknow, everywhere you go, it's
about your brand, your brandexternally, your brand
internally, your brand across.
How much of this brand identityimpacts you?
(40:05):
So when you think so, I'masking you this question did
this branding of yourself impact, how you eventually saw
yourself, Like you brandyourself to the point where I'm
not even if I recognize myselfanymore, Like how you balance
that?
Because at some point you hadto brand yourself because you
needed to survive and thrive andother people didn't work.
But sometimes you feel like, boy, I'm so on brand at work that
(40:30):
sometimes there's a gap, there'sa disconnect, where you now
have to start audit yourself andsay, okay, this is work, Carrie
, this is another Carrie and itdon't really, it's not jiving.
And that's kind of where youknow.
Maybe you had started to saylike, yeah, I was driving
towards this accolade, notaccolade, but you know this goal
(40:53):
you're not.
You weren't necessarilyenjoying the successes, because
sometimes the brand at work, orthe your business brand, your
entrepreneur brand, is nowbecomes the main foundation, as
opposed to just being a brand,just the messaging.
So talk to me a little bitabout like was that an
(41:14):
experience you have?
And when we have that, to useyour tech word, when we have
that scope creep, you know, whenwe check ourselves, I say, hey,
my girl, I just the word brand,that's.
You know it's not you.
I know what God tell us if itbreaks up, my girl, so you know.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Talk to me a little bit about um, that's a really
interesting point and and thething about it is with the
branding is your brand is notyour identity necessarily, right
?
So I think, again, this iswhere it kind of comes in, like
your brand is not your wholeidentity.
And I think that's whatprobably makes our breaks that
people get laid off because yourjob was your identity.
So your brand is notnecessarily the job.
So my brand at work was gettingthings done, which means, no
(41:54):
matter what you give me where Iam, I'm going to get things done
.
I could be put on a project andit's a gnarly horrible nobody
wants to look at it project andyou give it to me.
I'm going to dig into thatbeast, I'm going to come back
out.
It's going to take me some12-hour days, some 14-hour days.
I'll be sending emails at 1 am,but in a few days everyone will
(42:15):
have clarity on that project.
So I'm the person who can takebig picture gnarly information
and I can break it down andfigure out how are we going to
solve this, how are we going toget out of this, how are we
going to make this work?
And so my brand at work luckilyfor me, because I think
(42:36):
somewhere in Jamaica wasprobably very helpful, right, my
cultural background was helpful.
Right, it hurt, but it was alsohelpful because I remember
saying to my managers every timeI would have a new manager and
you had to do the introductionand they had to get to know you,
I said, listen, I like to dogood work and I want to be
appreciated for the work I do.
I want to be acknowledged and Iwant to be rewarded.
(42:58):
I don't do things to beacknowledged and to be rewarded.
I don't.
I'm very clear to them that,like, I'm just going to do a
very good job.
That's just me.
Do good work, right, because Ineed that.
Pay me good, treat me good, butI'm not the person on the team
who wants to be visible justbecause and so that was
(43:19):
something that within me that Iwas very clear on from the
beginning it's not me.
So that cultural thing kind ofhelped right.
Again, it did hurt sometimesbecause I remember once I went,
my manager came to me and I waslike I want to get promoted and
like because those things are soimportant, and he said to me
there's this project and I waslike, but I don't want to work
on that, like, I don't want todo that Right Because, again, it
(43:40):
didn't align with me and mybrand and the things I was
interested in, and it hurt mebut I was like I don't want to
do it.
And so I think for me on brandit's it starts with like knowing
why you want to do somethingand be at least be happy
integrally when you get there,right?
So you know, I don't want to bethe person who get there and I
(44:02):
have to question how I got there, right, that don't sit right in
my spirit.
So the thing is, when youdevelop your brand, it has to be
a reflection of you, but it'snot completely who you are, and
so you also have to have thoseboundaries.
Like I said, there were manyprojects I did not take on,
again to my own detriment, right.
(44:22):
Maybe that's why I got laid off, but I was just like I don't
want to do that, right.
And so that's what I would sayabout like one year job is not
your identity and when you thinkabout your brand is to separate
what you do and how you do itwell from where you do it, and
you can take and do it anywhere.
And the other thing I would saythat really comes to mind when
(44:43):
I think about this brand and whoyou said like the carry at work
and the carry here and thecarry there.
It's about like there's thislevel of fragmentation that
happens to us as Black people.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
No, no, and I just I can't speak for every Black
person, but I've said this onthe podcast before, because the
very thing that you're talkingabout is exactly why I started
this podcast, and I talk aboutbeing confidently Caribbean at
work.
Listen, Natalie, you know.
So we have judging clothes, wehave gold clothes, we have
church clothes, we have schooluniform, and none of them don't
(45:15):
mix right you and your motherbody up like yo, where you at,
where you have good clothes,Like they don't mix.
We're very boxy, like, and thebox them don't touch.
And you know, like you, Ilearned very early like, yeah,
some of them boxy, are going toblend in a little bit, right.
So this idea of you know,fragmentation, yeah, hurts us
(45:41):
culturally because you know, butit has its benefits.
So I just wanted to interject,finish your thought there.
But, yes, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
So we're fragmented.
So there's this concept of likewhether you can bring your
whole self to work and whetheryou should right, you know some
of it can't see all our worktrue, true, but I think it's.
What we should be doing is nottrying to, like, only bring a
certain part of us into theorganization, or a part of us.
The church is what.
What part of us is mostvaluable at church?
(46:08):
What part of you is mostvaluable at work?
Right, and so it's not about,like you're, you're saying this
part is untouchable at work.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
It's biblical there's a time and place for everything
under the sun.
Right Biblical there's a timeand place for everything under
the sun.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
True, yes, it is biblical, so that's why it goes
back to the value Time and place.
If you're in church, it's notthe time to be telling the
pastor.
You said a word wrong just now.
It ain't the time, so is thateven valuable to tell him that?
Speaker 1 (46:39):
No, it's not valuable either.
No, that is adding wisdom.
There's a time and place anduse your wisdom.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yes, However, you know what I did recently.
So you talk about going outclothes and whatever.
Going back to, I said I changedout my wardrobe.
I now what I called outsideinside clothes.
That's what I call it.
I buy the clothes that I wouldwear outside the house and I
wear them inside the house.
Why am I need for a little popdown in a the house?
(47:07):
Why?
Why me need for have on onetear up t-shirt?
Why me need for look pop downin a my house?
Where would I come from?
Jamaica?
Exactly Because what we used todo and this is what you think
about when you go back to themindset what used to happen is
you'd have the good clothes butme't have enough money.
So them now buy new clothes foryard and clothes to go to road.
(47:28):
When the church truck mash up,them, tear off the sleeve and
you wait in the yard right whenthe pants start get too old.
So the thing is like thisscarcity mindset that we were in
created these fragmentations inour lives without we realize.
You have to go panting in theout panty and you have some
clean panty in case of likesorry underwear, because we on
the people on internet likeunderwear for when you get taken
(47:49):
to a hospital and we're not,we're not touch the glass.
So what is it?
Because your mother have abrick front full of glass that
never use it when it did, andthen my fight or fight like why,
why do we do these things?
And that was like wait, wait on, why am I waiting for a special
occasion to wear my clothes?
Who told me that?
Right, and so the fragmentationcomes from a little bit of our
(48:11):
scarcity and not understandingthat you are whole.
Don't fragment yourself, butwhat is most valuable at this
time in this space, and how doyou show up as you're the best
version of yourself.
So what I did like, for example,I like to cook and I like to,
like you know, be creative withmy food.
I make Jamaican Christmas cake.
(48:31):
I make it at work.
Them love it Every year.
One of my old co-workers.
I would give her a personalsize cake.
She's from India and I give hera personal size cake because I
am like what parts of me aremost valuable to building
relationship with my team?
Right, what are the parts of methat I can freely bring,
(48:54):
because some things you can'tfreely bring.
So, like my faith was adifferent situation.
I wasn't going to go to talkabout Jesus every day.
It doesn't work, as you said, atime and a place for everything
.
But there were times whenpeople were like so you know why
are you always like this?
And I'm like, you know, it's myfaith and so I find ways.
I'm not going to hide it,because that's who I am.
What did you do this weekend?
(49:15):
Oh, so you know, yeah, I wentto church because I'm not going
to the party.
I wasn't at the endless brunch.
I mean, I didn't go to whereverthey went, and so why should I
be uncomfortable?
Because to make you comfortable, right.
And so there really comes to aplace where, again and it's not
easy, I didn't, I didn't always,I was always like this, and
(49:36):
some days I'm just like thesepeople talking about them pizza,
them pizza oven and them wherethem went with them kids and
like, excuse me, I was in myhouse doing nothing Because,
right, but I had to get to aplace where, when it made sense
again, when does it make sense?
When is it most valuable?
When do I just need to be inlisten mode and learn from the
(49:58):
rich people then and go?
Oh, so the rich people thenlive.
That's so nice.
Oh, my God, tell me more, so Ican learn.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
You know what I love about this conversation it's a
full circle moment of 10 yearsago.
This is the frustrations ofwork, and over the years I've
had many episodes kind of havingthe conversation you're having
now, but with other people, andto hear you applying it.
(50:29):
I know the audience don't thinkI was crazy, but hearing
somebody else different paths,going through a similar journey
of revelation, right, because inConfidently Caribbean, I'm like
what are the things about ourculture that hurts us and that
creates blind spots?
You said exactly that.
What are the things that we areaware of about ourselves that
(50:53):
we might need to, we need tochange the tune in on this, and
what are the things that, likeyou said, like we shouldn't
downplay?
And I know that we have aprivilege, um, because we are
jamaican or we just we, just, wejust we're different, we just
show up different and I had torecognize that, um, that's a
(51:17):
privilege and and and coming atit that way, not many people
have the same level ofbraggadocio with us, with us
born with, you know it just withus in the dna right and also,
I'm not sure where you are, butI'm, as a new yorker, have that
privilege compared to somebodyelse who may be in another state
(51:38):
, who may not feel ascomfortable.
You know I show up like beaches.
Well, not figuratively, they do.
You know I show up like beachesWell, not figuratively, but
mentally we're walking on beach.
You know what I mean and so.
But what I love about this ismerging everything that we're
talking about how we think ofour purpose, god's intent for
(52:03):
our lives, how we show up towork, because they may seem like
disparate things that we'retalking about, but they all
impact.
All of that come from we, right?
You know it's impacting theperson, and so, as we think of
you know, as we wrap up, howwould you put this in a bowl?
We talked about how we think ofour success and our failures,
(52:28):
our identities, what we areputting as foundation, as our
identities and personalleadership.
Right, which is what you aretalking about.
Leadership at work is one thing, but our personal leadership as
it applies to our ownindividual purpose and how we
help other people, so wrap thatup in a bow for us.
Anything you never tell.
We just let we know, let thepeople them know what you do and
(52:50):
where they can find you,because we can always go on for
this because labrish is also inour DNA as Jamaicans, and it's
not all of us.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Some of us, some of us more than others.
Like I said, some of us havethe gift of gab, but, um, and
it's not all of us.
Some of us, some of us morethan others.
Like I said, some of us havethe gift of gab, um, but you
know it's interesting thatyou've talked about the full
circle moments, um, and thereason why you started this
podcast, and I think people needto be willing to keep at it,
like most people would havegiven up by now, right, and so
there's this resilience that wehave because of where we're
(53:24):
coming from, that can make us dothings that nobody else can.
Right, it's playing to our ownstrengths.
Most people would have given up.
Most businesses fail in thefirst three to five.
I've given up on my own dreamsover the years and I think
that's some of the things that Ithink I started to recognize
because, when we're there inJamaica, I started to recognize
because when we were there inJamaica, me a comb, the boy them
(53:45):
ear, me a caner ear, me a sellcassette, like business minded,
because we're off to make it,anyway, we take it.
And then I came here and Irealized like something in me
was off because I wasn't.
I was no longer dreaming, I wasno longer thinking Like.
I heard someone say this thebest way recently that your
lived experience is your secretsauce.
(54:09):
Right, your lived experience.
That's not the way they said it, but that's what I'm going to
give it to you.
Your lived experience is yoursecret sauce.
As a Caribbean American, yourlived experience, who you are,
your culture, everything thatyou've grown up with, this
diversity and inclusion thateveryone is talking about.
You're a part of that Diversityand inclusion is not to find a
(54:29):
place to put you.
It's that your voice can make achange in this world.
So it's up to us to really dothe work to show up and show out
, because there's somethinginside of you, no matter how big
or how small it is.
(54:50):
And so my thing is to encourageyou to be braggadocious, to be
audacious, braggadocious andaudacious in whatever little way
.
You know, like going to theBible, there was a woman that
all she had was a small mite.
She didn't have a lot, but shegave all that she had.
So I would say, like, no matterwhere life takes you, no matter
where you're starting from,don't get to the point where
you're so like it's too small tobe important, because that's
(55:13):
not true.
Your little is needed bysomebody.
Somebody need your little,right?
Somebody in the office is goingto need what you have, someone
in your neighborhood is going toneed what you have.
And so start where you can,without the title, without the
Wally Park accolades, and youknow the best part of leadership
(55:35):
is doing it when nobody can'tsee you, right, nobody can't see
you.
Just show up as the bestversion of yourself.
Show up and show out and watchhow everything around you start
to look like the leader that isalready on the inside of you.
That's what I would say topeople.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Hallelujah.
No, that was wonderfully said.
Everything that you said inthat is so apropos for the
moment, where it doesn't matterhow little you think you have.
It is valuable to someone elseAlways.
(56:13):
If you don't think it'svaluable, it's because you don't
meet the person who need thevalue from it, and that's just
the beauty of it.
So why don't you tell everybodywhere they could find you,
connect with you and all ofthese things?
Speaker 2 (56:27):
So you can find me on all socials at I am Natalie
Bennett, so my name right, mybrother knows just with it, I am
Natalie Bennett.
My website isthethrivemindsetcoachcom.
I'm also at LinkedIn.
Even on LinkedIn is I amNatalie Bennett.
Instagram, instagram, tiktok,all over the place X.
(56:47):
Anywhere you look for me, I amnataliebennettcom.
I have programs.
I have personal coachingprograms.
I have workshops on financialwellness and personal
development.
I don't know when this can comeup, but still look me up.
I'm sure I'll have something tobe able to help you I'll have.
(57:08):
I have free resources on mywebsite.
I'm always trying to give freeadvice.
I do a 30 minute consultationwith people.
It's for free.
We can have conversations.
I also have like mentorshipthat I do, so I'll put a certain
number of hours on my calendarevery month, every six weeks or
so, where, if you just want topick out my brain, my brain,
because people like to do that,right, and so I also make myself
available for mentorship If youhave any questions, let's reach
(57:29):
out and we'll see how we canconnect from there.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
Wonderful.
Well, natalie, thank you somuch for coming on the podcast,
for sharing your wisdom and yourexperiences, because the wisdom
come from the experiences and,as I love to say at the end of
every episode, walk good.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Okay, and I want to say to you congratulations of 10
years of the Carry On Friendspodcast and I can't wait to see
and hear about all the amazingthings that you will continue to
do.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Bye Bye, bye, bye.
Hello everyone, Welcome to another episode of
Carry On Friends.
I am so excited today to haveNatalie join me on the podcast.
Natalie, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much for having me, Carrie-Anne.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Wonderful and I'm excited about the topic we're
going to get into.
But before we do that, whydon't you tell the community of
friends a little bit about whoyou are, Caribbean country you
represent, and a little bitabout the work you do?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Okay, I'm going to start out with where I'm from
the big bad, the one and onlyblack, green and gold Jamaica.
So, as we said, my name isNatalie Bennett.
I am currently in a season oftransition in my life.
Right, I call myself amulti-hyphenate because there's
so many things that I am doingthat I have done that I want to
do so.
By profession, I'm in IT, so Ileft Jamaica, came here for my
(00:55):
master's, ended up working atGoogle as a senior product
manager.
That's my last gig, I will callit.
During this year, there's beentransitions with layoffs, of
tech, and that has landed mesquarely in the seat of being an
entrepreneur.
And that takes me into mycurrent business, which is as a
(01:16):
coach.
I am the Thrive Mindset Coach,and what that means right now is
I have spent a lot of timetrying to figure myself out.
I talk about the fact that mylast gig was at Google.
I have been what everyone wouldcall successful.
I will call myself successful,but there came a time, despite
overcoming all the challengesgetting to this place, that I
(01:38):
wasn't completely fulfilled, andI spent a lot of time trying to
figure that out, and a part ofthat was me saying okay, god,
what do you want me to do withthis life that you've given me?
And so I have come up with asmy purpose is that I want other
people, like I am doing, to walkin their God-given identities
right, whatever that looks likefor them, and then I want them
(02:00):
to enjoy life while they'redoing it.
And so what does that look like?
How do I go about doing that?
Coaching is one of because Isaid I'm a multi-hyphenate one
of the things that I know I canuse to reach people, in a way,
and inspire, uplift and empowerthem to go after what has
already been given to them andthey were created to be and to
(02:22):
do.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
This is why I wanted to have this conversation with
you, so we're going to pull on acouple threads.
First, let's talk about thelayoffs, because again it's in
tech, there's a downturn.
And walk me through thisreconciliation of you just said,
like you have been successful,but even though you have been
(02:47):
successful, you may not havealways seen yourself as
successful.
And then now this layoffcommander, you're like Lord G,
you know.
So talk to me about that, youknow, because that's something
that I've identified with.
So talk to me about how you arereconciling this with a layoff
that is emotionally,psychologically, financially,
(03:11):
adding stress to aspects of yourlife.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So that's the funny thing, it actually isn't, and
I'm going to tell you why itisn't.
This is not my first layoff inmy life.
This is like my third layoff inmy life, right?
And so if we go back about like, what does success look like?
What does it mean?
What does that look like for me?
I think I was lucky enough tostart this journey a few years
ago, so when the layoff happenedI was almost ready for it.
(03:36):
I was almost like tellingmyself I already said to my
friend early last year when theywere doing layoffs.
I said if I get laid off, I'mnot going to look for another
job.
That was already in my psycheand that's because I had done
the work to go back about notfeeling successful.
I think it comes from how I grewup, because I grew up poor from
(03:58):
Kingston, jamaica didn't have alot ghetto life.
Nothing much is expected tocome out of those communities.
I was being led and driven byjust coming out of scarcity.
The thing that was driving mewas coming out of scarcity,
proving that I was not going toend up a teenage mom, proving
that I could make it.
There were these things insideof me that I didn't even realize
(04:21):
that was driving me.
So every time I would go alittle bit further.
I'm like wait, am I far enoughaway from where I started?
So my mind wasn't evenprocessing the success it was
processing.
I'm no longer poor, I'm nolonger the person they thought I
was going to be and sadly, italso meant that I was still
trying to prove myself to otherpeople.
(04:43):
So even my definition of successwas incorrect, because every
time I got to a level I wouldlook at the people who would
have said something to say am Isuccessful now?
And if they didn't give me theresponse I was looking for, it
meant I had not arrived right.
And so there was a lot ofunlearning I had to do and to
recover myself and to reallyfigure out, like I said, who am
(05:06):
I?
Going back to my God-givenidentity?
Who am I?
What was I called to do?
How do I want to show up inthis world?
And what does that look likefor Natalie, not for my mom, not
for my family, not for thecommunity, not for my church,
what does that look like for me?
And so that was really theepiphany where I can look back
(05:26):
and say I am successful, like Ihave done so much, even if I
didn't have the accolades behindmy name.
I have done so much that,within my own right, I have
lived a successful life.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Man, you gave me a list.
I'm like scribbling.
I can't even tip myself offmute properly to catch up.
So, of all the things, I'mgoing to go to the part that I
feel like it connect, like whenShrimpy knuckled somebody you
understand what I'm saying Likethis version of success that is
(06:01):
defined by accolades, that isdefined by accolades, and when
you are looking at your personalsuccess, you're looking at
accolades.
What, then, is success definedas, or should be defined as,
(06:22):
outside of accolades?
Because we're not sayingaccolades isn't success, it is a
reward as a result of success,right, and that's one thing.
But what should we be lookingat to evaluate success?
And I'll be very honest.
So we're in 2025.
It's been 10 years since Ilaunched the first episode of
(06:43):
the podcast and, as I waslooking ahead, I was like all
right, I'm celebrating these 10years, but what's my success?
I've been doing this for 10years.
I don't have tens and thousandsof followers, I don't have this
(07:03):
, and I had to think of what'smy impact, you know, not just on
others, but on myself, and thatwas a very hard exercise
because I honestly know whatyou're talking about.
When I have time for look past.
Success is just, it's like achecklist Boom, check off the
(07:24):
list after the next one.
I have not really basked in thesuccess.
I have not been like, oh wow,yes, let's boggle to that Like
nothing.
So how should we be looking atsuccess One?
But how do we take a beat tobask in the success, little and
(07:49):
big, because the little onesbuild on towards the bigger ones
, so agreed.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So success is not a destination, just like life is
in the destination.
It's a journey.
So I say to people, you have todefine it for yourself and in
order to say if you'resuccessful, you have to think
about where you're going.
And this is where it comes intohaving a vision for your life,
having goals that you set andcoming back to what's your why.
(08:18):
You have a podcast.
You're on this.
Everybody's like the numbers,the likes, the X, y, z.
If that is your measure ofsuccess, then you're successful
in your own right.
Nobody can take that away fromyou.
You mentioned impact earlier.
Is that what is your why?
Right, and so it comes back toreally being clear about why are
you doing the things thatyou're doing?
Are you doing it to be liked?
(08:39):
Are you doing it to becomefamous?
Are you doing it because youwant to?
You believe there's a story.
There's going to be at leastone person who's going to hear a
story on your show and that'sgoing to change that person's
life.
So for you, you're successful.
There have been times on thiseven entrepreneurial journey
that I'm on.
Now I have to get up and sayNatalie, what is your?
(08:59):
Why?
Have you hit your?
Why?
Yet?
Is there somebody out there whois waiting for your why?
And I said, right, I want tohelp people to walk in their
God-given identity and to enjoytheir life.
There's.
If it's even one person,starting with myself, then I've
done the work right and so, andit's that's a hard thing to do,
by the way, and I'm not sayingthat disappointment doesn't come
(09:21):
and you don't look around andgo like, is this really what I
should be measuring myself by?
But it comes to for me, I am ata place where I want to live
fulfilled.
I remember I got to this reallyweird point in my life where I
was saying to my therapist Iwould give up all this money in
the world to not feel the way Ifeel right now.
Right, and I said it out offrustration and anger, but it
(09:44):
made me realize that somethingelse, something deeper, was at
play and what I was callingsuccess was not filling me up.
And if we look at society, wesee so many people who are
successful and they choose tostep out of this life.
We see them as successful andthey're alcoholics, and I'm not
(10:04):
saying that those things are inany way condemning them, but
it's because what we believe isgonna make us happy.
We get there and we realizewe're not fulfilled, and that's
because we're chasing after thewrong things, we're not feeding
our truest selves, we're nottalking to what is gonna feed
our soul, what makes us uniquely, us, right.
We're not being our truestright, we're not being our true
(10:26):
ourselves, we're not beingauthentic.
And so we show up and everyoneelse is like, oh, and we're like
I don't even like who I am whenI'm doing this, right.
And so it really comes down tospending time being clear on who
you are, what you carry, whatdo you want to do in this world?
How do you want to show up andbe willing to be true to that,
(10:46):
even if it doesn't look likewhat everybody else around you
is doing?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And again, I'm telling you I know it's not easy
, it's a hard thing to do, butit's worth doing, and that's why
I do the work that I do rightnow the part of it not looking
or making sense to anyone, Ithink is one part that I want to
emphasize, because for a verylong time, well-meaning,
(11:12):
well-intentioned people will sayyou should do this, you should
do that.
I'm like I don't really want todo that Because I know it's not
for me.
I know it's what other peoplehave done to be successful, but
it's not what I want to do.
But not feeling it, and youknow there are moments you'll
question yourself and say did Imake the right decision?
And then sometimes you have tojust say you know what, just
(11:36):
follow your mind.
As we said, just do that andjust keep on it.
So you know there are times whenyou are even second guessing
the decisions that you've made,like this is for me, especially
when the results not coming asfast right as you want them to,
yeah, yeah.
And you look left and right andsay, hmm, natalie, I'll go on
(11:58):
with things.
You're sure we shouldn't dothis, that type of thing.
So I do want to stress that.
Now you said something aboutyou know when Nendi start with
the layoff and you're like youknow what?
If they do it?
I know I don't want anotherfull-time job.
Talk to me about some of thatwork that you've done, that
(12:19):
groundwork.
So when that came time for thelayoff, you're like I'm good, I
already think through this.
Like, talk, talk to me a littlebit about some of that inner
work that you had to do.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I probably hit rock bottom and thought there's
nowhere else to go at some pointpandemic life and everything
else there was just too muchgoing on and I started to like
sit with myself a lot and bewilling to have that
conversation and therapy.
We're Black people, caribbeanpeople, black people Like
therapy is a good thing Even asa Christian, therapy is a good
(12:54):
thing.
And so I recognized that Ididn't have all the answers and
so I went to therapy and mytherapist was great at helping
to inspire me and to have me dothe work in those sessions.
But then I had to take itoutside of that.
I started to shift things in mylife.
When I tell you, I shift, firstthings I did was I moved and I
(13:15):
moved into a new environment.
Right, because the environmentthat we're in will either be our
cage or our community, or itgives us choice, right.
So I changed my environment.
I just have to shift.
I changed my wardrobe, likeeverything that I was.
It's almost like I was peelingaway layers of myself to find
the real me, and that meanteverything in me and around me
(13:37):
had to change and I had to startto think about what was driving
my decisions.
And again, like I said, that'sby no means easy work, it's not
done but I had to do decisions.
And again, like I said, that'sby no means easy work, it's not
done, but I had to do that.
And, as a person of faith, thatwas a lot of spending time with
God and really asking him.
Okay, god, I could come to youone more time and say, god
helped me to keep my job, or Godhelped me to give me another
(13:59):
job, but I decided to sit withhim to say, okay, god, I need
your revelation, I need yourclarity.
I needed to tell me what do youwant from me?
Not bless this thing I have inmy hand, but what do you want
from me?
And out of that, all of thesedifferent things started to
evolve.
I remember one of the thingsthat came to me when I was going
through this transition is thatthere's a version of me in the
(14:22):
future.
That is okay.
There's a version of me that isin the future that, like, she's
figured out everything, she hasall the answers for me and I
need to get to her.
And so this thing came up to meabout like me to her, her to me
.
She's saying to me, natalie,where I am standing right now.
Everything has worked out, wefigured things out and you're in
(14:44):
the right place.
You just need to come and meetme here and I made a commitment
in that moment to her that I wasgoing to do all the work, I was
going to make sure that I gotto her Right.
And it was me to her, her to medestiny calling.
And so I had this thing.
Of that there's more, there isa, there's a better version of
me, there's a place where thethings that are like not okay
(15:07):
today are going to be okay atsome point.
And those were the things thatagain, but it it took work.
I hate when I not that I hate,but like when I share this story
or I share my story.
It might come across easy, butI want people to know it's not
easy.
It's tears, it's you're losingpeople in your life.
People don't understand you,like.
(15:27):
There's a lot of work to trulystand in the fullness of who you
are and becoming the bestversion of yourself.
That became.
I was journaling, I was going totherapy, I was being vulnerable
with people because I'm astrong person.
People look at me and I'm astrong person.
I'm a leader in my own rightand again, all the things that
I've done.
So people look at you and go,oh you strong, you have it going
(15:49):
on and I had to start to bevulnerable to say I can't be the
caretaker for the familyanymore, I can't be the nurturer
anymore, I don't have all theanswers for everyone.
You're going to have to standin your own place so that I can
become truly strong so I canhelp you.
So it's like it's really a lotof work and it's ongoing work.
It's honest work that startswith you being honest with the
(16:11):
person in the mirror.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Wow.
I just want to emphasize toeveryone listening this is very
hard work, this is.
It sounds so easy, but it'shard.
It's like you know, you eat theorange and you turn the inside
out and you know it's.
You know, sometimes you'reyou're, you're not even proud of
what you see when you are inthose moments, in seclusion with
(16:36):
God, and you get therevelations about the things
that you've been trying to proveor the things that, like you
said earlier, you know, move faraway from okay, all right now
I'm not a teenage mom, I'm this.
You know.
You start to realize thatyou've sometimes you've been
(16:57):
building things on a shakyfoundation and now you have to
find a new foundation, all ofthese things.
And so, as we start doing thiswork or anyone who's listening,
who's interested in doing thiswork the first thing is your why
, right, that's the first thingthat you said.
(17:18):
There's something else that youtalked about, which is it's
very broad, but I want us tocome back to it.
You know, you said God'spurpose for your life.
Boy, I tell you God's purposeof my life.
It shifts for me personally,Like God said to this one minute
, and then I was telling someoneelse this, like this is the
(17:41):
assignment, and then theassignment shifts.
So what would you say tosomeone who said, well, I don't
know God's purpose in my life.
How do I even find that out?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, something you just said.
As you were asking the question, the first thing that popped
into my head is that the purposeis different from the
assignment.
So your assignment can change,the way you show up in, your
purpose can change, right, butat the core you're still doing
the same thing.
So, as an example, I thinkpeople think that I thought this
too, that this purpose was thisbig thing.
(18:12):
I had to do this big, hugething.
It was going to be so big.
The whole world would know.
The skies would open up and belike ah, you know, that's not it
.
What gifts have you been given?
I say this to my students I'vedone, like you know, I've done
women's group and I've done mycoaching business, and I
remember I always say to themwhat are the things that
(18:32):
naturally come to you?
Naturally, you might go to workand everybody wants to come and
talk to you and you give them aword of encouragement, right?
You might be the person who hasthe gift of gab, right?
Like, think about.
Like, just take a pause andthink about what is that?
You do naturally when you thinkabout the thing that you can do
(18:53):
all day long and get lost in itand it doesn't even feel like
work, and I know people say like, oh, if you find a thing that
you love, you never have to worka day in your life.
You got to work hard when youfind that thing right.
So it's not completely true,but the essence of it is it just
flows out of you, it'seffortless.
And when you start to find thatyou're doing things effortless,
(19:14):
you might be just like, oh, Ilike to see people learn, and so
you end up teaching, you don't.
You take the student who no oneelse wants to teach, and you'll
have the patience to walk themthrough it Right.
And then you're like that'syour purpose.
Your purpose is to help peopleto understand big things in
their own way.
So I think people are lookingfor, oh, this great thing about
(19:34):
my purpose.
It's what do you do naturally?
What has God given you in yourhands?
You know he said to Jeremiahwhat is in your hand right?
So what is already in your hand?
What do you do naturally?
If you're a homemaker and youare a good cook, you can cook
right, which means you'refeeding your family, you're
feeding them, you're making themcomfortable.
(19:55):
That just might be your gift.
You know God has given you thegift of creativity and you're
able to cook.
So now you cook at church.
When they need to have apotluck, who they call into the
mac and cheese, that could justbe.
Your purpose is to bring comfortinto other people's life.
We're all here, fitly framedtogether, for a thing we can't
all be the sun, then who's goingto be the moon?
Who's going to be the earth?
(20:16):
Who's going to be the tree?
Every part has its own functionand no function is bigger than
the other.
So when you think about yourpurpose, just think about who
you are and what you do.
Right, no one else can be you.
We're trying to be everybodyelse but our true selves, and
when we start to be our trueselves, our purpose will just
shine.
You wouldn't have to ask, like,what your purpose is, it will
(20:37):
just be there.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
All right.
So this is a good segue intothe initial topic that I wanted
to talk to you about.
Right, you know purpose andleadership, right Initial
reactions on those two words,how we interpret them, and what
do you think of when you thinkof purpose and leadership?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
So I think purpose and leadership, you could say
they're not the same thing,right?
They're kind of like twoseparate concepts that work well
together.
Right?
If your purpose is to lead,then lead.
If your purpose is to follow,then follow, right?
So, like, you have to figureout, like, where do I fit?
In the grand scheme of things?
There's something and I don'tknow why I'm going all into the
Bible.
That was not my intention whenI prepared for this, but it says
(21:25):
that one plants, one waters andone harvest.
Right, going back to purpose,everyone has their job.
So I think it's difficult, like, what is my job?
That's it.
What do I need to do Now whenit comes to leadership?
Leadership, the way we've alwaysthought about it in the realms
of corporate, it's position ofpower or some sort of title.
Title doesn't mean purpose.
(21:46):
You can slap a title on anyone.
You've given them a positionthat they're not fit for.
You've given them a positionthat they're not the right
person, it's true.
So you can give a person atitle, but that don't mean that
what is in them can actuallybring that thing to pass.
You've seen people being givenCEO positions and in three
months they're no longer in theposition because you gave them
the title, but they didn't havewhat was needed to bring the
(22:08):
business, or whatever it is,where it needed to go.
So I believe that if you're inthe right place, then we talk
about what leadership reallyshould be right, and a simple
definition of what leadership isis where you can take people
from where they are to wherethey need to be or want to be
and make sure that they'reenjoying themselves along the
way.
So, which means you're notpushing them, you're not
(22:30):
challenging them, but you're notpushing them.
You're not a dictator, becauseit's really about people
challenging them, but you're notpushing them.
You're not a dictator becauseit's really about people.
Leadership is about servingpeople right, and so you're
helping serve another person'spurpose by being a leader.
So if I were to put themtogether, it's not like, oh,
your purpose ends up being aleader, no, it's as a leader,
you're helping other people tofulfill their own purpose
(22:52):
because you're getting them towhere they need to be.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yes, and I think the call out of what you said was
it's important for us tounderstand that leadership means
different things in certaindifferent contexts.
In work it means another thing,but we all carry this sense of
this essence of leadership, evenif we don't have a title right.
(23:17):
So I am not the CEO of mycompany, I'm not the manager or
senior VP of anyone, but withinus, as you said, like I am
guiding my colleague to get thisthing done right or whatever it
is.
So talk to me about the mindsetshift right, especially for you
(23:37):
know our audience is Caribbean,american that mindset shift of
thinking of leadership, of justposition of power, versus where
you I like that definition whereleadership is, how are you
helping others You're in thatyou know.
To use another term that'soften overused and also often
misunderstood servant leadership.
(23:58):
How does this show up in ourday to day?
And what mindset shift foranyone who's still having
trouble recognizing thispersonal definition of
leadership.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
You said earlier, you're not the CEO of your
company, but you're the CEO ofyou.
It starts with leading yourself, right, and so the question is
where do you want to go?
Can you see a vision of whereyou are supposed to be in the
future for your life?
And I'm the Thrive MindsetCoach, and so for me, everything
kind of lands on how are youthinking and how are you seeing
(24:30):
things?
Right, because, as a manthinketh, so is he right.
And whatever is happening inour mind is going to start to
shape our reality.
Right, because how is this, asa man think it?
So is he right.
And whatever is happening inour mind is going to start to
shape our reality.
Right, the mindset shiftbecomes start with where you
have the most control, which isover yourself.
Right, so you know your leader.
If you're a mother, if you're adaughter, like whatever, again,
(24:51):
the basics of who you are.
Right.
You could be a teenager.
Right, it could be somebodywatching this with their child,
or like there's a teenager orsomeone who is not yet even in
the working world, and they'relike, oh, but I can't be a
leader until I get to corporate,which is not true.
I'd say this if you look at theplayground, right, you can kind
of see who the leaders areearly, right, those who are born
to be leaders.
(25:11):
Because to be leaders?
Because if you look at the kidson the playground, there's
going to be this one kid whostarts to do something and move
in a direction and everyonestarts to follow them and then
they become the leader of thepack.
They didn't even try to do itand so, even if we go back to
those times and we're not tryingto like, please, anyone, prove
to ourself anything, and thosekids on the playground who end
up being the natural leaders isbecause they're being themselves
(25:33):
, right.
So, really, when you think aboutthe mindset shift is to like,
how do I lead my own life andhow do I become the example of
who I want to be?
When I go to church, when I goto work, when I'm with my
friends, I think is how themindset shift starts to happen
in our lives, or like, that'show it happened for me anyways.
And so when I think aboutleading my life, it's being
(25:55):
intentional, right, it's againhaving vision for my life, being
intentional about what I'mdoing, right, doing what I said
I was going to do, so beingcommitted to what I'm supposed
to be doing right and sobuilding the characteristics in
me which are really just thequalities of leadership.
Because, listen, not everyone'sgoing to be a good leader, not
(26:16):
everyone is called to leadeither.
Right, in those very bigpositions where you have big,
you have responsibility.
I always say leadership isresponsibility, it's not rank.
The higher you go, the morethings you become responsible
for, you become accountable for.
So I'm not sure why peoplechase some of these things.
You know how muchresponsibility it is to why
people chase them these days.
I'm like you know how muchresponsibility it is to be a
(26:38):
leader in these places.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I'm going to interject a Jamaican proverb the
higher the monkey climb, themore exposed.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Exactly so, like in my mind.
I'm just like, why is everyonelike, even like at church?
I'm like, why does everyonewant a title in church?
I'm like you know how much, youknow how much responsibility
that is to God for his people.
I'm like y'all need to slowdown.
It's a responsibility, right,and so it really comes to.
So shifting your mindset isbuilding the characteristics of
leadership in your own life, inyour own home, right?
(27:10):
How are you leading If you havelittle brothers and sisters?
Like when people look at you,do they want to follow what
you're doing?
Would they want to emulate you,and is it a good thing for them
?
So it's really recognized that,like, before you get a title,
you have to be the person andlike even in, like.
So in my old organizations thatI worked in, you know, coming
(27:30):
from Jamaica, so talk aboutCaribbean Jamaicans and
leadership right In Jamaica, youwork hard.
Somebody says, hey, you workhard and you get promoted, you
get more money.
That's how you go up the ladder, right.
That's how, when I was there,you work hard, not in America,
not in America.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yes, that is why I started this podcast, because it
was this seismic shift inmeritocracy you work hard and so
you have a merit, you get yourentitlement.
You know in America, no, I'mnot saying work Me, I have to go
over here, go friend up,natalie, and you know, work the
relationships you know.
(28:11):
For me, natalie Putina, goodwork Like and I'm simplifying it
it's a little bit layered anddepending on industry and
company, but boy, what a shiftit was.
That was one of the key thingswhy I started this podcast 10
years ago.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Because of that shift , and it's a shift.
So I came here like 14, 15years ago.
So I worked in Jamaica.
I had a whole life in Jamaicabefore I packed everything up to
come to America in search ofthis better life.
And so the question is, and soI was saying in my old job, you
had to be showing them that youwere already at the next level
to be promoted.
(28:49):
So you didn't get promoted justbecause you're done well at the
level you were at Right, justbecause you're done well at the
level you were at right.
And so, even as we think aboutleadership, it's like how do you
continue to like, have personaldevelopment?
How are you growing?
How are you showing that youare ready for the next level?
So, before you want the title,walk it out.
Walk it out and be the person.
So when the title come, it'sjust an affirmation and a
(29:12):
validation of who you alreadyare Right.
And there's so many ways that wecan build the characteristics I
said, like it's in our homes,it's in our communities, it's in
our friendships.
I'll be the one to say to myfriends, like, listen, all y'all
, you keep talking about thegoals you want, you want the
soft life.
I remember a few months ago, Isaid, like, let's go to the park
, bring some ice cream and bringyour journals.
(29:33):
We're going to start doing someplanning because I can't be the
only one who is doing all thisinner work.
And I'm going and like, I'm,like, I'm going to go, and I
know for a fact I'm going toleave them behind.
If, like, if I keep growing,I'm going to outgrow them.
It's not a matter that I don'tlove them anymore, but it means
that where I'm at, I can'tconnect with you at the same
(29:53):
level anymore.
And then you have, oh, youthink you're better than me, and
all that, which is like, youknow what?
I want to take you with me.
And so it's like, let's go tothe park and we talked about
life and we talked about thingsand we journaled and we made
plans and we, you know, we weredoing all of those things.
And so leadership, again, is notabout titles.
It's about being able to seethe future in some way shape, or
(30:14):
it's about being able to seethe future in some way shape or
form.
You don't have to have beenthere, have done that, but you
are willing to look beyond yourpresent situation, because
leaders are visionaries, leadersare strategic.
Leaders are problem solvers.
You know what, like most peoplewho are like from poverty, you
are already leaders.
When your mother can figure outhow to make spam go 10 ways to
(30:34):
Sunday, when your mother canmake that hard-o'-bread last for
however long right, you know,got your bed hungry or anything
when your mother can make it,she was showing the qualities of
leadership.
And so I think the mindsetshift is to really break these
very big concepts down to thingsthat we can understand, make
them really practical, and thatway, when you're thinking, oh,
(30:58):
am I a leader or not?
If you took care of your littlebrothers and sisters when your
mother had to go to work, youwere a leader.
And so taking those experiencesand saying, ok, what did I have
to do to keep them in line alittle bit, right, what did you
learn from that?
And don't just put the smallthings aside.
Oh yeah, I was just babysittingfor a little bit.
(31:18):
It's not easy to babysitanybody, right?
And so the mindset shift, as wecome back to the question, is
really about breaking theconcept down and seeing yourself
there and saying what kind ofleader do I want to be?
Like I used to say to people andI said this to my manager I
don't want to manage people,because I understand the weight
of managing people.
(31:38):
I understand when I make adecision at work it affects them
in their lives, in yourchildren's life, in their family
.
They go home, they can't sleep.
I've seen and heard and I'vementored people, so I get it and
so I've never wanted to be apeople manager.
So my way of leading is I'll bean IC, an individual
contributor, I will leadbusiness objectives and I will
lead processes and I'm just likethat's the kind of leader I
(32:01):
want to be.
Now that's not my calling, soyou know it doesn't work that
way, but that's what I've alwayssaid, because I will choose the
way I want to show up as aleader and not force myself into
spaces and places before I amready, qualified and equipped to
do the job well.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
So I keep wanting to come back to this work
environment.
So let's focus there, and Iwant us to dig a little bit
deeper on how we show up at workand what does that look like?
Because you know a lot ofpeople.
They get their epiphanies or arealization while doing work.
(32:40):
Right, they either come to arealization that you know what
this is not.
It is not for me.
I need to be a social worker.
I don't know, I'm just throwingstuff out there.
So, when you look at thedissatisfaction people are
experiencing at work, what's oneof the first things that you I
mean other than what's your why?
(33:01):
And some people, why couldsimply mean I need to pay my
bill, I'm a mortgage, I'm a rent, right?
So what's the one thing youwould say to someone who I'm not
happy at my job?
And for them to start pullingon the different threads to find
out why.
To get to where you were whenyou knew that if the layoffs
come, you are going to take thelayoff.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I think it's taking risks right and being open to
change.
So, first of all, let's take astep back, if you're on.
Sometimes we're unfulfilled inour jobs because it's not
because we don't love our jobsand we're not in the right place
, like there's just a wholebunch of stuff happening, right.
Sometimes we're unhappy in ourlives or we're unhappy in our
lives, we end up having jobs.
We need to figure out, likewhat is happening?
Do a bad manager?
Are you in a toxic environment?
(33:46):
Like we need to.
We need to ask ourselves thesequestions.
Like you ask yourself are youin a toxic environment?
And it's just not good for you,right?
I remember hearing someone saythe other day at a session I was
at is that for the first timein her career, she got like the
lowest grade she could get,right and that had left her like
self-doubt and all of thesethings were rising up in her.
(34:07):
And, luckily for her, she wentand she spoke to someone and
they're like oh no, it's not you, it's that manager.
You have the wrong manager,right?
So I think it's spending timeto do that investigation, but
that only happens if you've doneall the other work.
So let's go back a little bitabout the transition from like
working in Jamaica, you work outand get to work and you,
america, you work at them, getto work and you make it and you
grow the ladder and you go upthere and you know you're in
(34:28):
America.
In America that there's adifferent system.
You have to think about like,what's your, the concept of like
, what is your brand Right, whatis your brand?
And you have to always bethinking about like, what do I
want to be known for?
Right, and you have to alwaysbe trying to like, build your
brand while you're there.
So the question is is it thejob that you're doing that is no
(34:50):
longer challenging you, that'scausing you to be frustrated?
Is it the environment?
Is this not the rightenvironment for you?
So, like, you have to answerthose questions and you need to
have the people around you thatcan help you to answer the
questions too, because you'regoing to have blind spots, right
, and we don't like I think yousaid it earlier too about like,
because you talk up to the bossand you're like there's a person
and there's a person, you're afriend, and all of this stuff
(35:12):
that can make or break us, causewe I I'm going to talk for
myself.
I came to America and I was justlike when I lived in Jamaica I
don't, I'm going to use a niceone, I don't brown nose, right,
I'm not a American friend.
So when I was in Jamaica, whenthe first time I got laid off, I
was like, well, if you know, ifI'm not going to be the best
friend and she doesn't know mybusiness, and if I don't take
the work, then I'm not going totake the work.
(35:33):
I'm going to tell you as it is.
I was a different person, right, I was like I'll tell you as it
is.
You know, you cannot was me inJamaica.
So I came here and I was justlike me, not network with nobody
, because you know networking isnot for me.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
And wait, if network isn't one thing, the other thing
that I've seen and this is partof things that we I've covered
too is me no one the organizedplay date me no one go to hang
out with no core after thing.
So that's another one where,ooh, they might have events
where me no want go, me no likethat Right.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
So really we have like you're shooting yourself.
Okay Listen, I was on an eventthe other day and I said it's a
game.
For the longest time I did notwant to play the game because
I'm like that is not who I am,this is not who I want to be.
I'm not going to play this gamebecause, again, come from
Jamaica, I'm going to have around nose.
I'm not doing it, but that hurtme in the early parts of my
career and it took me a longtime to figure those things out.
(36:36):
So it hurts, right.
And this is where it comes tolike you have to put the
alignment in and understand whyyou're doing something and being
willing to know what yourboundaries are.
So, and there's something yousaid earlier that I want to kind
of go back to, as I'm in thisspace is sometimes the reason
why we don't go for more is ourown insecurities.
So we'll say the other day Iheard God say to me Leslie, stop
(37:01):
playing small.
I came off of a call withsomebody.
They reached out to me forsomething and when I came off
the call it says stop playingsmall.
Because I was hiding away.
So sometimes we don't want tonetwork because we think, oh, my
accent is going to throw me offthat used to happen to me.
Or I don't know what I'm goingto say to these people.
Like I don't even, I don't fitin here.
Like you're telling yourselfall these things in your head, I
(37:22):
don't fit in.
You know, they don't look likeme, they won't understand me.
Like I don't know what I'mgoing to say, like, and so we
need to get a little bit overourselves.
I know it's hard.
Get over ourselves to say thisis why the inner work before and
the personal development isimportant.
Because you're like I havesomething to offer.
I am going to insert myselfinto this conversation, even if
(37:46):
it's just to listen and nod andbe like whatever, right.
So we need to be willing tostep out of our comfort zones a
little bit, stop playing small,step into the room and find out
where we actually fit right.
So networking is not all bad.
Don't go into the first time yougo because, ooh, I want to
leave this team and it's toolate.
(38:07):
If, when you need the bridge,you're trying to build it, it's
too late, you're going to drown,it ain't going to happen.
You could get lucky, right.
So they need to kind of likebuild a network ahead of time,
build their brand, buildallyship.
There's something called thepersonal boardroom.
Have people like again, I startwith you, there's the business
(38:27):
of you have a personal boardroom, people that you can go to to
say, hey, tell me if it's me,tell me where I'm falling short
and when you have done all andif there's so much that you need
to do.
This is why I come, come andI'll help you, to help you
through it.
But there's so much that youneed to do.
But when you you get to theroot cause of the problem, then
you can make a decision.
So I'm dissatisfied because mymanager isn't the right manager
(38:51):
for me and so what I need to dois find another role in this
company.
Or it is that this work doesn'tchallenge me anymore.
Maybe I need to ask my managerfor some more challenging work.
Maybe it is that I am justfrustrated because all the
things happening in my life howcan I upskill?
(39:11):
Maybe I can learn bettercommunication skills.
So what do I need to changeabout me to be able to better
show up in this space?
So it's not always an easy.
Oh, I'm well-loved up, butwe're going to lift the job
right and all we do is take thebad behavior and the issues that
we did not deal with from onejob to the next job.
(39:31):
You ever hear them people thatway every job.
Them go something wrong withthe place where them work.
Like everywhere we go, I dopeople them problem.
I feel them reason why it noworkouts.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
It isn't always them, it's true.
But there's something else thatI wanted to come back to.
So I definitely know that youknow, everywhere you go, it's
about your brand, your brandexternally, your brand
internally, your brand across.
How much of this brand identityimpacts you?
(40:05):
So when you think so, I'masking you this question did
this branding of yourself impact, how you eventually saw
yourself, Like you brandyourself to the point where I'm
not even if I recognize myselfanymore, Like how you balance
that?
Because at some point you hadto brand yourself because you
needed to survive and thrive andother people didn't work.
But sometimes you feel like, boy, I'm so on brand at work that
(40:30):
sometimes there's a gap, there'sa disconnect, where you now
have to start audit yourself andsay, okay, this is work, Carrie
, this is another Carrie and itdon't really, it's not jiving.
And that's kind of where youknow.
Maybe you had started to saylike, yeah, I was driving
towards this accolade, notaccolade, but you know this goal
(40:53):
you're not.
You weren't necessarilyenjoying the successes, because
sometimes the brand at work, orthe your business brand, your
entrepreneur brand, is nowbecomes the main foundation, as
opposed to just being a brand,just the messaging.
So talk to me a little bitabout like was that an
(41:14):
experience you have?
And when we have that, to useyour tech word, when we have
that scope creep, you know, whenwe check ourselves, I say, hey,
my girl, I just the word brand,that's.
You know it's not you.
I know what God tell us if itbreaks up, my girl, so you know.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Talk to me a little bit about um, that's a really
interesting point and and thething about it is with the
branding is your brand is notyour identity necessarily, right
?
So I think, again, this iswhere it kind of comes in, like
your brand is not your wholeidentity.
And I think that's whatprobably makes our breaks that
people get laid off because yourjob was your identity.
So your brand is notnecessarily the job.
So my brand at work was gettingthings done, which means, no
(41:54):
matter what you give me where Iam, I'm going to get things done
.
I could be put on a project andit's a gnarly horrible nobody
wants to look at it project andyou give it to me.
I'm going to dig into thatbeast, I'm going to come back
out.
It's going to take me some12-hour days, some 14-hour days.
I'll be sending emails at 1 am,but in a few days everyone will
(42:15):
have clarity on that project.
So I'm the person who can takebig picture gnarly information
and I can break it down andfigure out how are we going to
solve this, how are we going toget out of this, how are we
going to make this work?
And so my brand at work luckilyfor me, because I think
(42:36):
somewhere in Jamaica wasprobably very helpful, right, my
cultural background was helpful.
Right, it hurt, but it was alsohelpful because I remember
saying to my managers every timeI would have a new manager and
you had to do the introductionand they had to get to know you,
I said, listen, I like to dogood work and I want to be
appreciated for the work I do.
I want to be acknowledged and Iwant to be rewarded.
(42:58):
I don't do things to beacknowledged and to be rewarded.
I don't.
I'm very clear to them that,like, I'm just going to do a
very good job.
That's just me.
Do good work, right, because Ineed that.
Pay me good, treat me good, butI'm not the person on the team
who wants to be visible justbecause and so that was
(43:19):
something that within me that Iwas very clear on from the
beginning it's not me.
So that cultural thing kind ofhelped right.
Again, it did hurt sometimesbecause I remember once I went,
my manager came to me and I waslike I want to get promoted and
like because those things are soimportant, and he said to me
there's this project and I waslike, but I don't want to work
on that, like, I don't want todo that Right Because, again, it
(43:40):
didn't align with me and mybrand and the things I was
interested in, and it hurt mebut I was like I don't want to
do it.
And so I think for me on brandit's it starts with like knowing
why you want to do somethingand be at least be happy
integrally when you get there,right?
So you know, I don't want to bethe person who get there and I
(44:02):
have to question how I got there, right, that don't sit right in
my spirit.
So the thing is, when youdevelop your brand, it has to be
a reflection of you, but it'snot completely who you are, and
so you also have to have thoseboundaries.
Like I said, there were manyprojects I did not take on,
again to my own detriment, right.
(44:22):
Maybe that's why I got laid off, but I was just like I don't
want to do that, right.
And so that's what I would sayabout like one year job is not
your identity and when you thinkabout your brand is to separate
what you do and how you do itwell from where you do it, and
you can take and do it anywhere.
And the other thing I would saythat really comes to mind when
(44:43):
I think about this brand and whoyou said like the carry at work
and the carry here and thecarry there.
It's about like there's thislevel of fragmentation that
happens to us as Black people.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
No, no, and I just I can't speak for every Black
person, but I've said this onthe podcast before, because the
very thing that you're talkingabout is exactly why I started
this podcast, and I talk aboutbeing confidently Caribbean at
work.
Listen, Natalie, you know.
So we have judging clothes, wehave gold clothes, we have
church clothes, we have schooluniform, and none of them don't
(45:15):
mix right you and your motherbody up like yo, where you at,
where you have good clothes,Like they don't mix.
We're very boxy, like, and thebox them don't touch.
And you know, like you, Ilearned very early like, yeah,
some of them boxy, are going toblend in a little bit, right.
So this idea of you know,fragmentation, yeah, hurts us
(45:41):
culturally because you know, butit has its benefits.
So I just wanted to interject,finish your thought there.
But, yes, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
So we're fragmented.
So there's this concept of likewhether you can bring your
whole self to work and whetheryou should right, you know some
of it can't see all our worktrue, true, but I think it's.
What we should be doing is nottrying to, like, only bring a
certain part of us into theorganization, or a part of us.
The church is what.
What part of us is mostvaluable at church?
(46:08):
What part of you is mostvaluable at work?
Right, and so it's not about,like you're, you're saying this
part is untouchable at work.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
It's biblical there's a time and place for everything
under the sun.
Right Biblical there's a timeand place for everything under
the sun.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
True, yes, it is biblical, so that's why it goes
back to the value Time and place.
If you're in church, it's notthe time to be telling the
pastor.
You said a word wrong just now.
It ain't the time, so is thateven valuable to tell him that?
Speaker 1 (46:39):
No, it's not valuable either.
No, that is adding wisdom.
There's a time and place anduse your wisdom.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yes, However, you know what I did recently.
So you talk about going outclothes and whatever.
Going back to, I said I changedout my wardrobe.
I now what I called outsideinside clothes.
That's what I call it.
I buy the clothes that I wouldwear outside the house and I
wear them inside the house.
Why am I need for a little popdown in a the house?
(47:07):
Why?
Why me need for have on onetear up t-shirt?
Why me need for look pop downin a my house?
Where would I come from?
Jamaica?
Exactly Because what we used todo and this is what you think
about when you go back to themindset what used to happen is
you'd have the good clothes butme't have enough money.
So them now buy new clothes foryard and clothes to go to road.
(47:28):
When the church truck mash up,them, tear off the sleeve and
you wait in the yard right whenthe pants start get too old.
So the thing is like thisscarcity mindset that we were in
created these fragmentations inour lives without we realize.
You have to go panting in theout panty and you have some
clean panty in case of likesorry underwear, because we on
the people on internet likeunderwear for when you get taken
(47:49):
to a hospital and we're not,we're not touch the glass.
So what is it?
Because your mother have abrick front full of glass that
never use it when it did, andthen my fight or fight like why,
why do we do these things?
And that was like wait, wait on, why am I waiting for a special
occasion to wear my clothes?
Who told me that?
Right, and so the fragmentationcomes from a little bit of our
(48:11):
scarcity and not understandingthat you are whole.
Don't fragment yourself, butwhat is most valuable at this
time in this space, and how doyou show up as you're the best
version of yourself.
So what I did like, for example,I like to cook and I like to,
like you know, be creative withmy food.
I make Jamaican Christmas cake.
(48:31):
I make it at work.
Them love it Every year.
One of my old co-workers.
I would give her a personalsize cake.
She's from India and I give hera personal size cake because I
am like what parts of me aremost valuable to building
relationship with my team?
Right, what are the parts of methat I can freely bring,
(48:54):
because some things you can'tfreely bring.
So, like my faith was adifferent situation.
I wasn't going to go to talkabout Jesus every day.
It doesn't work, as you said, atime and a place for everything
.
But there were times whenpeople were like so you know why
are you always like this?
And I'm like, you know, it's myfaith and so I find ways.
I'm not going to hide it,because that's who I am.
What did you do this weekend?
(49:15):
Oh, so you know, yeah, I wentto church because I'm not going
to the party.
I wasn't at the endless brunch.
I mean, I didn't go to whereverthey went, and so why should I
be uncomfortable?
Because to make you comfortable, right.
And so there really comes to aplace where, again and it's not
easy, I didn't, I didn't always,I was always like this, and
(49:36):
some days I'm just like thesepeople talking about them pizza,
them pizza oven and them wherethem went with them kids and
like, excuse me, I was in myhouse doing nothing Because,
right, but I had to get to aplace where, when it made sense
again, when does it make sense?
When is it most valuable?
When do I just need to be inlisten mode and learn from the
(49:58):
rich people then and go?
Oh, so the rich people thenlive.
That's so nice.
Oh, my God, tell me more, so Ican learn.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
You know what I love about this conversation it's a
full circle moment of 10 yearsago.
This is the frustrations ofwork, and over the years I've
had many episodes kind of havingthe conversation you're having
now, but with other people, andto hear you applying it.
(50:29):
I know the audience don't thinkI was crazy, but hearing
somebody else different paths,going through a similar journey
of revelation, right, because inConfidently Caribbean, I'm like
what are the things about ourculture that hurts us and that
creates blind spots?
You said exactly that.
What are the things that we areaware of about ourselves that
(50:53):
we might need to, we need tochange the tune in on this, and
what are the things that, likeyou said, like we shouldn't
downplay?
And I know that we have aprivilege, um, because we are
jamaican or we just we, just, wejust we're different, we just
show up different and I had torecognize that, um, that's a
(51:17):
privilege and and and coming atit that way, not many people
have the same level ofbraggadocio with us, with us
born with, you know it just withus in the dna right and also,
I'm not sure where you are, butI'm, as a new yorker, have that
privilege compared to somebodyelse who may be in another state
(51:38):
, who may not feel ascomfortable.
You know I show up like beaches.
Well, not figuratively, they do.
You know I show up like beachesWell, not figuratively, but
mentally we're walking on beach.
You know what I mean and so.
But what I love about this ismerging everything that we're
talking about how we think ofour purpose, god's intent for
(52:03):
our lives, how we show up towork, because they may seem like
disparate things that we'retalking about, but they all
impact.
All of that come from we, right?
You know it's impacting theperson, and so, as we think of
you know, as we wrap up, howwould you put this in a bowl?
We talked about how we think ofour success and our failures,
(52:28):
our identities, what we areputting as foundation, as our
identities and personalleadership.
Right, which is what you aretalking about.
Leadership at work is one thing, but our personal leadership as
it applies to our ownindividual purpose and how we
help other people, so wrap thatup in a bow for us.
Anything you never tell.
We just let we know, let thepeople them know what you do and
(52:50):
where they can find you,because we can always go on for
this because labrish is also inour DNA as Jamaicans, and it's
not all of us.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Some of us, some of us more than others.
Like I said, some of us havethe gift of gab, but, um, and
it's not all of us.
Some of us, some of us morethan others.
Like I said, some of us havethe gift of gab, um, but you
know it's interesting thatyou've talked about the full
circle moments, um, and thereason why you started this
podcast, and I think people needto be willing to keep at it,
like most people would havegiven up by now, right, and so
there's this resilience that wehave because of where we're
(53:24):
coming from, that can make us dothings that nobody else can.
Right, it's playing to our ownstrengths.
Most people would have given up.
Most businesses fail in thefirst three to five.
I've given up on my own dreamsover the years and I think
that's some of the things that Ithink I started to recognize
because, when we're there inJamaica, I started to recognize
because when we were there inJamaica, me a comb, the boy them
(53:45):
ear, me a caner ear, me a sellcassette, like business minded,
because we're off to make it,anyway, we take it.
And then I came here and Irealized like something in me
was off because I wasn't.
I was no longer dreaming, I wasno longer thinking Like.
I heard someone say this thebest way recently that your
lived experience is your secretsauce.
(54:09):
Right, your lived experience.
That's not the way they said it, but that's what I'm going to
give it to you.
Your lived experience is yoursecret sauce.
As a Caribbean American, yourlived experience, who you are,
your culture, everything thatyou've grown up with, this
diversity and inclusion thateveryone is talking about.
You're a part of that Diversityand inclusion is not to find a
(54:29):
place to put you.
It's that your voice can make achange in this world.
So it's up to us to really dothe work to show up and show out
, because there's somethinginside of you, no matter how big
or how small it is.
(54:50):
And so my thing is to encourageyou to be braggadocious, to be
audacious, braggadocious andaudacious in whatever little way
.
You know, like going to theBible, there was a woman that
all she had was a small mite.
She didn't have a lot, but shegave all that she had.
So I would say, like, no matterwhere life takes you, no matter
where you're starting from,don't get to the point where
you're so like it's too small tobe important, because that's
(55:13):
not true.
Your little is needed bysomebody.
Somebody need your little,right?
Somebody in the office is goingto need what you have, someone
in your neighborhood is going toneed what you have.
And so start where you can,without the title, without the
Wally Park accolades, and youknow the best part of leadership
(55:35):
is doing it when nobody can'tsee you, right, nobody can't see
you.
Just show up as the bestversion of yourself.
Show up and show out and watchhow everything around you start
to look like the leader that isalready on the inside of you.
That's what I would say topeople.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Hallelujah.
No, that was wonderfully said.
Everything that you said inthat is so apropos for the
moment, where it doesn't matterhow little you think you have.
It is valuable to someone elseAlways.
(56:13):
If you don't think it'svaluable, it's because you don't
meet the person who need thevalue from it, and that's just
the beauty of it.
So why don't you tell everybodywhere they could find you,
connect with you and all ofthese things?
Speaker 2 (56:27):
So you can find me on all socials at I am Natalie
Bennett, so my name right, mybrother knows just with it, I am
Natalie Bennett.
My website isthethrivemindsetcoachcom.
I'm also at LinkedIn.
Even on LinkedIn is I amNatalie Bennett.
Instagram, instagram, tiktok,all over the place X.
(56:47):
Anywhere you look for me, I amnataliebennettcom.
I have programs.
I have personal coachingprograms.
I have workshops on financialwellness and personal
development.
I don't know when this can comeup, but still look me up.
I'm sure I'll have something tobe able to help you I'll have.
(57:08):
I have free resources on mywebsite.
I'm always trying to give freeadvice.
I do a 30 minute consultationwith people.
It's for free.
We can have conversations.
I also have like mentorshipthat I do, so I'll put a certain
number of hours on my calendarevery month, every six weeks or
so, where, if you just want topick out my brain, my brain,
because people like to do that,right, and so I also make myself
available for mentorship If youhave any questions, let's reach
(57:29):
out and we'll see how we canconnect from there.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
Wonderful.
Well, natalie, thank you somuch for coming on the podcast,
for sharing your wisdom and yourexperiences, because the wisdom
come from the experiences and,as I love to say at the end of
every episode, walk good.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Okay, and I want to say to you congratulations of 10
years of the Carry On Friendspodcast and I can't wait to see
and hear about all the amazingthings that you will continue to
do.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Bye Bye, bye, bye.
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