September 3, 2024 • 58 mins
In this Carry On Friends, Style & Vibes, Reels & Riddims crossover episode Mikelah and I chat with with Jessica Shaw a Jamaica American TV Producer about her upcoming documentary "Roots Rock Reggae Souls" which has received an overwhelming response on social media.
We talk about "Souls" being a catchall term Jamaicans use for music from a variety of genres, including country, R&B, pop, ballads and soft rock. Prepare to be immersed in stories and personal memories of music and the role radio play in Jamaica's eclectic taste in music.
Jessica and are team have a crowdfund to raise the money they need to produce the documentary. Please support the "Roots, Rock, Reggae, Souls" documentary!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everyone, welcome to this special joint
episode of Carry On FriendsStyle and Vibes and the Reels to
the Rhythms.
I'm always excited when we dothese crossover episodes because
I feel like, as Mikaela said,beer tings.
So welcome my co-host, mikaelaMedoops.
What is going on A long timestill in O'Kerry?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We never would chill out, be still as you say.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hallelujah, hallelujah.
And we're even more excitedbecause we have Jess with us.
Jess, welcome to this crossoverevent.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm great.
Thank you guys for having me.
I'm excited.
I love the name too Realism,rhythm.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Love it, All right.
So I mean everybody alreadyknow, Michaela and myself, so
we're just going to skip to themknowing who you are.
So tell the people a little bitabout who you are.
Caribbean country you represent, the work you do, and then
we'll get into the project weare here to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Sure, yeah, I'm originally from Jamaica.
Actually, I was born in NewYork but I was never raised here
, so I don't rep it the same waybecause I was raised in Jamaica
.
So I was raised in Kingston,went to Hope Field, Prep, and
then Campion Shout out to allthe Campion mastermen and I came
(01:27):
back here for college, you knowas about 17.
So I've been here in New Yorkfor a long time I consider both
home at this point and so I'vebeen working in TV now for over
a decade, I would say since 2013.
So I've been 11 years of TVsand I've done a bunch of
different positions across TV.
But this doc I'm coming up iskind of like my first doc by
(01:48):
myself.
I've worked on stuff on Netflixand I do a lot of Food Network
shows as a producer.
I've been working on A&E stufflately and PBS.
I do like a food show for PBSevery year, but I love music, so
that's really why I'm happy tobe doing this.
So I kind of do two things foodshows and music.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, two things dear to a heart we love Rebellion
and we love music.
So you're right in the companyof me and Michaela.
So we reached out to youbecause you have and I'll throw
it to Michaela to finish therest you have a documentary
that's coming out that's calledRoots Rock Reggae, and Michaela
(02:34):
cue you.
So I was so excited when I sawthis project because, as
Michaela said, I've been in achill and be still
semi-sabbatical.
But when I saw it I was justlike this was kismet.
It was meant to be, becauseMichaela and I talk about
(02:57):
dancehall and the segments indance.
You have the praise and worship, you have the throwak tunes,
you have the souls section.
We have all these things andit's very hard for people to
understand, like, why we dothese things.
So talk to me about the project, why you started it and all
that good stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Okay.
So I again grew up in Kingstonand every night would listen to
Fame FM.
Every night I didn't have TV inmy room, so every night, even
now I still do it with, likeSpotify, I listen to.
You know, souls at night, whichis, you know it can range.
That's why it's called Souls onthe R&B, because it can range
(03:39):
from country to pop to pop,ballads to soft rock.
I don't really know what theexact definition is, we'll get
into that in the doc, but weknow, and we hear it, what is
sold right.
We know certain artists areprobably not sold.
We're not playing them at thedance, right, and so I've always
loved this part of Jamaicanculture in general.
(03:59):
I just find it so fascinatinghow we love artists like Marty
Robbins and Patsy Cline andthese really old country artists
.
And on a Sunday up until Ithink, when Zip FM maybe came on
the scene, which was, I forgotwhich year Zip debuted in
Jamaica we never playeddancehall and those things on a
(04:19):
Sunday.
On a Sunday it was always yougo back, right, and it was for
after church and you don't play,even though I love Bushu dearly
, you know, but you're notplaying that kind of more, you
know, even though Bushu notsuper hardcore, but you know
what I'm saying.
You're not playing an elephantman on a Sunday.
You're not playing certainartists, ninja man on a Sunday,
you're playing older artists,you're playing old country.
(04:43):
So I've always thought aboutthis and what really sparked the
doc is two things.
One I was in Paris a coupleyears ago with some friends of
mine.
I was playing water from themoon.
We were like all playing musicand, like our friends, paris
laughed and they just didn'tlove water from the moon and I I
was like what?
(05:04):
This is our song.
I was so hurt internally.
And then last year my dad gotan award for his service to
Jamaica, you know, on the HeroesDay.
So he got one of the awards forhis service as an air traffic
controller.
So but the night I was onlythere for 36 hours in Jamaica
(05:25):
and I went to this party calledI Love Souls and it's every
Sunday night.
Shout out to them, we're goingto work with them on the dock
and I was like uptown people canbe a little stiff, but
everybody was dancing, everybodywas singing, everybody.
I beat them juice and I singout to Celine and Michael Bolt
and Lady in Red was dancing.
(05:45):
Everybody was singing,everybody.
I beat them juice and I singout to celine and michael bolt,
and then lady in red, and I waslike you know, I realized that
some songs are songs that justwe love in the caribbean, from
the paris incident, right, theparis situation, and then I was
like I've never gone to a placein the world and I've traveled a
lot where people only play thisfor the entire night and then,
(06:06):
like people love Celine all overthe world, we're not unique and
loving Celine.
But to go to a place and youonly hear soft rock and micro
boats and an air supply and youknow what I mean meatloaf maybe,
right, that is unusual for therest of the world.
And so I was like somebodyshould do a doc on this and I
(06:26):
was like, well, why don't I justdo it?
Like you make television, youknow.
So that's really where it camefrom.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I think what I love about what you shared is the
inspiration behind it and thefact that you saw something that
was missing and you said I'mcapable of doing this.
That was missing and you saidI'm capable of doing this, let
me do it.
And I think that to me that iscultural preservation at its
finest.
And I think souls, as it isknown, that section, that genre,
(06:59):
is very unique to the Caribbeanand it really goes back to what
we played on radio.
So even going further back,reggae wasn't even allowed on
radio.
So we've seen glimpses of thisin other documentaries.
So the one with Biggie talkingabout how he went back to
Jamaica and his mom reallytalking about how her favorite
(07:22):
artist, and then even in a pastpodcast episode with Miss Pat,
she talked about selling R&Brecords on the road through her
record label record store at thetime.
So they weren't even the label.
So it just goes with theculture, essentially of how that
(07:46):
really grew.
But I'm curious, even in thatparty has souls transcended to
this next generation?
I know that they listen to R&Band I know that they listen to
other genres, but souls as weknow it, of this nice little
presentable box, has thattransitioned to the next
(08:08):
generation?
I don't know, so that's why I'masking.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean there were some younger people there.
I'm a millennial for sure.
I'm probably like a geriatricmillennial at this point, but
yeah, there were younger peoplethere.
I would say it tended to leadprobably, you know, younger
millennial, but there were somepeople I know for sure in like
probably their mid-20s because Ifeel like their parents music
(08:33):
now is probably like, are likeUsher and Beyonce and you know
some of those.
Or Keisha Cole, right, that'swhy it's that song love has been
like all over.
I feeling like in some wayswe're the aunties now and so
like I think for them, maybesome of the older, super old
stuff might not, they might notknow that stuff, but they still
understand, I think, the conceptof it as a like r&b.
(08:55):
But you could also have an edsheeran, which is in the same
box, even though he's a popartist.
You know what I mean.
I think that still doestranslate, but I don't think
they maybe know unless they havetheir grandparents still around
, like Marty Robbins, who we,you know lots of Jamaicans love
Marty Robbins um, one of thethings you said before and I
(09:19):
don't know if you'll cover this,but you know, I'm I'm in the
Gen generation.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So I grew up when there was just one, it was just
JBC, and everything else wasradio and TV sign off and the
radio format.
You talked about it on Sunday,right Sunday morning, before
church collectively starts.
So most churches would start at10.
You play your Christian music.
After that that gets into thecountry music and by late
(09:46):
afternoon it's some Latin typemusic, whether it's bossa nova
or some salsa, and then as weget into the nighttime it gets
to be the souls or whatever.
Right.
And there was a particularradio format.
My favorite radio disc jockeygrowing up was Donovan Dakers.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I loved.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Donovan Dakers right.
So how much has radio played arole in our love of souls, given
that for a very long time wewere a one channel country and
multiple radio stations?
And to Michaela's point, do youthink now where even though
(10:28):
Jamaica is still a heavy radiocountry, but not as much with
social media and stuff how doesthat play a role in the younger
generation experiencing soulsthe way we experienced it?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Because I don't live there full time anymore.
I don't know if they listen toit the way we do, but I think
radio in a lot of ways I thinkradio is super important to
Jamaican life.
Right, I used to live my lifeby RJR in the mornings Like
literally they had like a youknow they used to have a segment
for everything, like at 10 pastthe hour, 15 past the hour, I
(11:04):
think, at 6.30 in the morning itwas news 6.45.
So I think a lot of peoplelisten to the radio and I think
it really helps shape how wethink about like even the way
things should be played, I think, with souls in particular and
older music like country and R&B.
In a lot of ways that is thefoundation, I think, of what you
(11:26):
know in radio and I think thatto that point about the radio
station being the one I thinkthat is the foundation for all
radio stations did up untilmaybe like 15 years ago I think,
up until, I think, when Zipcame along and they started
playing more secular music on aSunday, most radio stations
still follow that kind of tieredthing on a Sunday Morning
(11:51):
gospel Afternoon you got yourold country, your Patsy Cline
and your Skeeter Davis Afternoonyou might get into a little
older, softer disco, right.
You might play some ABBA rightor something like that, and then
evening time you might go alittle bit more R&B, shy Lights,
ojs, things like that.
So I actually think radio isreally really foundational in
(12:14):
terms of how we listen to music,our palates, in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I love this idea of what radio has done for us
musically in how we relate tosouls and our love for souls.
So, all right, we know souls isa miscellaneous category for
anything that feels very R&Bsoft rock, you know, soft pop,
(12:45):
if you want to say what else?
It's anything where we feellike it's singing to a
particular, like soulful singing.
Maybe that's why we call itsouls.
It's interesting.
And you now, living in New York, all three of us, we carried
that to New York because, beingin Brooklyn, they used to keep
dance where it was a completelysouls team dance.
(13:08):
The whole night is souls, right.
So I want to ask a really funquestion when we think of
dancehall and dancehall parties,jamaica or the US, what is the
number one soul song you thinkthey're going to play in the
dance?
In your opinion, michaela andJess, what's the number one song
(13:29):
you know?
So then I'm going to pull atune here in the soul section of
this dance.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So my instinct, like once he said it, my instinct was
Michael Bolton's Soul Provider.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's like the song, and then they rinse it with the
Romy and Virgo on cover.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
It just came to my mind instantly.
It's one of my favorite soulsongs.
We know Jamaicans love MichaelBolton.
I guess I was going to go withmy instinct and say Michael
Bolton's Soul Survival.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I got to go with my instinct too.
First name came to mind wasCeline Dion, but the song that
came to mind is Like a VirginMadonna.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Interesting the song that comes to my mind is Guilty
with Barbara Streisand and BarryGinn.
Then we got nothing to beguilty, oh yes.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
We love that song.
We really do love that song,really do love that song.
It's true, we also love this isone, celine um, I'm alive,
let's anything.
Celine just run they love icecorrendo men dance to these soul
songs well, that's one of thethings that really is a big part
(14:39):
of the doc for me that I wantto make sure I touch on is that
Jamaicans also and I can't speakfor other islands, but
Jamaicans in particular picktheir own singles.
So there are songs that arejust popular in Jamaica and I
say this because I've been doinga lot of research right, and
artists would come to Jamaica,like Kenny Rogers the first time
(15:00):
he came.
I don't want to give too muchaway from the doc, but like
Kenny Rogers came to Jamaica andyou know, our favorite song is
Write your Name Across my Heart.
Right, we love that song, it'sone of our favorite songs
outside of the Gambler, probably.
And it's not a single.
It was never released.
So Promoto was like listen, youhave to close with this song.
(15:21):
And so he's been interviewed byWinford Williams and he's like
oh, we're not going to do that.
And I know he did it because Iread the article after.
And so the promoter must havebeen like absolutely not, right,
this is your, this is yourgambler here.
Right, and Jamaicans do that alot.
We'll pick a song I don't knowwhat exactly.
We gravitate in the song andthat's our, that's our favorite
(15:44):
song there's like this onerandom Celine Dion song that
they play at the dance all thetime, that literally nobody I've
ever mentioned it in Americaknows it.
They're like what?
And they know a lot of CelineDion song, but they don't know
this song.
I think it's called calledsomething about her mother.
I forget the name of it.
It's like mama, you gave mewings to fly.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I know that song.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
It is not a single right and I think it's Goodbye
is the hardest word.
I think that's the name of thesong and it's really a hit in
Jamaica, particularly likedowntown.
I don't know why, I don't knowwhere it came from, I don't know
.
Jamaicans like to taste, reallyfascinates me, like what they
(16:28):
gravitate towards and what theykind of reject.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
you know it's so interesting because when I used
to go back to Jamaica forvacation, I would hear songs
play on the radio that I didn'thear it even on the R&B station
here.
Particularly there was a songwith James Ingram and Anita
Baker from a movie and I wasjust like I've never heard this
(16:49):
song and people were like, whatis this?
It wasn't even played on theblack stations here and in
Jamaica.
I mean, almost every night itplay after you're just like I
had no choice but to know it.
So, um, another fun questionfor both of you who is an artist
that um?
(17:10):
For you, jess, that you knowthis artist in Jamaica but you
in America they're like who isthis um?
And Michaela, maybe, for youit's what's a song that you know
that you went to Jamaica forthe summer or for holiday or
whatever, and you heard it andyou came back and everyone's
like what is this sort of likeBiggie's experience?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
yeah, I think I think it was more the group Air
Supply.
I'm like I don't know who AirSupply is, because I, and then
they start playing.
So I'm like, oh yeah, I do knowair supply and I'm like, but I
can't put a face to to the songsbecause I didn't know who they.
You know what I mean, like thename of the band.
It's only like probably maybeeven the last 10 years that I
(17:52):
even really did the research onwho and and it was because of
probably like my mother-in-lawlike talking about air supply
and I'm like who's that?
And they're like, you know airsupply, man, you know them tune,
yeah, and them play the tune.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, me knowthat song.
But true, my mother was a rebel,so I be a reggae, she play, I
(18:14):
write me a reggae and dance, soshe play.
So my auntie was the souls andI mean my lady.
She would lock up in her roomand I'd vice out every song and
at that time, you know, she camehere so she was listening to
R&B station, so it's mostly.
And then she'd make like haveto, like put in tapes and all
these kind of.
(18:34):
So that's how I really gotexposed to the souls.
And then when I would go toJamaica I'd hear like CDs and
parties that would have thosesegments and it just kind of
stuck.
I'm like, yes, only in Jamaica.
It's one of those best keptsecrets of Jamaica, to be
completely honest.
And it's one that I think weshould preserve, because it's so
(18:56):
good I agree.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
The funny thing is, when I started working on this,
I'm gonna answer your question.
But when I started working onthis, um, I looked up air supply
because I was like, oh, we loveso many other songs and there's
all these reddit threads andstuff like, oh, air supply sucks
, and like cindy on is the worstand like michael jackson is
like the worst, like, like, notmichael jackson, I'm so sorry
michael bolton and you knowthey've parodied him in movies
(19:19):
about how his music sucks andI'm just like what this is
amazing, like how dare you comefor Michael Bolton and Kenny G
and these people, um, to yourpoint about artists, though, I
think, unless I met somebodyfrom the south, like from the
you know, who grew up inTennessee, oressee or, um, not
in florida, like you know, likedeep, you know deep south
(19:40):
tennessee and south carolina,people don't know marty robbins
and my drums are really oldartists that make sense, but I
listened to him a lot in jamaicaactually growing up like, um,
the el paso song is huge in thedark.
I'm gonna draw a lot ofparallels and I have a whole
graphics thing in mind.
Um, but between like some ofthe lyrics and some of the songs
(20:04):
from like like marty robbins,to some of the dancehall lyrics
which I think there is a, Ithink there's a chain, um, you
know the big iron on his hip toyou know car tell, on him 9 000
guns that he named drops and andyou know, I think jamaicans
love an outlaw right that youhear it with a rude boy.
They love an outlaw, they loveour rebel and dancehall is like
(20:26):
rebel culture in a lot of waysand so I actually think a lot of
it is rooted in like countryand western movies and music to
where you get to dancehall andsome of the same themes.
I think even some lyrics in somecases overlap which I'm even
the names of the artists oh yeah, josie wales, josie wales, um,
(20:46):
johnny osborne, a lot of yeahand so and that's because we
only had one station right um,growing up and he did play that
on a sunday or whatever, becauseyou have to fill the airtime
when you don't have news.
I mean, jamaica's a smallisland.
Like how much content can weproduce for our station?
So I I think that it's a bigfoundational part of like what
we listen to is like really oldcountry west.
(21:08):
They love those themes and youeven hear.
It's like a wayne marshall songmarshall in town and it's the
whole.
They love it, you know.
So I think for me that's one ofthe things that a lot of people
, even though they grew uparound a lot of Caribbean people
in New York, I think some ofthose really old school country
they didn't know even that wouldsurprise me.
(21:29):
Um, yeah, I think it's a littlebit different if you grew up in
the island it's so interestingthat you talk about country
because I can think of.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
you know, of course, we know Kenny Rogers the gambler
.
Oh my God, even the other daymy husband was singing it.
Right, I even, to a certaindegree I've talked to Michaela
like I really think LionelRichie is a country singer, but
they just put him in R&B.
But one but one country singerwhose album went really pop that
(22:00):
when I moved here no one reallyknew about her, is Crystal Gale
.
And everyone loved, and theyfirst.
They loved her because she hadhair all the way down to her
ankles, so that was one thing,but all everyone would sing was
a long and lasting love, andthey just kept singing that song
over and over.
(22:20):
So there's something there withthe country music and Jamaica
that is very interesting interms of the correlation.
So I can't wait to see it withyour doc.
So let's go back to the doc.
You are doing a crowdfund rightnow.
What's the goal of thecrowdfunding?
Where are you in the theproduction of this documentary?
(22:43):
And I'm gonna add one morequestion because we want to know
is this going to go the filmfestival circuit?
Is it going to be a generalrelease?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
let's know what's happening okay, great, this is
two great questions.
So we're still inpre-production.
Actually, it's funny.
I think this video, theKickstarter video, was so strong
that people are like it's likea trailer.
I'm like not quite.
We have a lot to film.
There's a lot of people I'mtrying to get to be in.
The doc Celine is obviously myMount Everest of interviews that
(23:16):
I'd like to have.
I have people, have peoplealready on board and so I've.
I've been amassing content andarchival and I've had some yeses
for when I go to Jamaica inOctober.
So I have a couple of shootsalready scheduled there and I've
shot like a couple of smallthings already.
But the crowdfunding is reallyfor production, right.
Um, if you work in TV and filmspace, um, you are aware, or if
(23:39):
you follow the industry trends,you know that it's been on a
significant downturn since lastyear, since the strikes, since
the writer strikes last year,which has happened in last May.
So I think the official numbersI saw there they were like it's
like down 40% or something,which is a lot right.
It employs a lot of California,a lot of New York.
So we've been in a really slowseason and I decided to launch
(24:02):
the crowdfunding because Ididn't want to wait to get told
yes, I find in TV, just likewith other trends, market trends
in other spaces and I'm not abusiness person by any means
trust me.
I've learned that from thisexperience.
But there's certain times whenthey're green lighting certain
things right.
Sports is hot right now, youknow.
True crime is hot.
(24:23):
Everybody wants to do a truecrime doc.
So it was kind of hard for amusic space and unless you're
Caribbean, you don't thinkthere's a big audience for this.
If I was going to send, like,an executive somewhere, right,
and I just didn't want to bewaiting and waiting.
I haven't worked as much as Inormally work in the past year
and a half, so I'm like I couldeither use this time to stress
(24:46):
myself out every day andapplying for new gigs and I've
worked, but just not nearly asmuch as I normally work Normally
I'm like overlapping sometimesit's so busy or I could put my
energy into something that Iactually want to make care about
my people, my story.
And then what's stopping meMoney?
Right, that's the thing that's.
The barrier is the money, Ithink even the access to people.
(25:09):
I know enough and I think I'sfind money and instead of
waiting for, you know, netflixor whoever to say, yes, let's
raise some money on our ownRight and hopefully people would
either come or it gets made andlike a hundred people see it
(25:32):
and it still got made and ahundred people love it.
That was where I landed, and sothe month I was raising is
actually significantly less thanI wanted to raise.
But Kickstarter is all ornothing.
So if you don't get all thefunding, you get no funding, and
it's not about not beingambitious, but you don't want to
overshoot and then miss rightand then get nothing.
(25:56):
I'd rather have $20,000 thanhave miss right and then get
nothing.
I'd rather have $20,000 thanhave you know.
Try to raise 40, but raise 32and didn't get anything.
You know what I'm saying.
So that's where the Kickstartercame in and I can elaborate,
but I won't keep going.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
No, no, no.
And I think in terms of if justexplain a little bit more when
you, when you said you're inpre-production, just let the
audience know specifically whatthat means.
It's just like identifying thepotential guests, etc.
And then post-production,because we want the audience to
support it and we want toexplain to them clearly where
(26:32):
you are in the process so theycould support it cool, cool, um.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So all right, so you have like four stages,
essentially actually five stages, of production.
Really.
You have development, you havepre-production, you have
production, post-production andthen distribution.
Right, we for a long time werein development, where I was
researching and stuff like that,and then I started reaching out
to people like hey, like youknow, there's people who have
reached out to try and be in thedark, like our I Love Souls.
You know, friends, that partyright, we're going to shadow
(27:05):
them a bit and like shoot someof that party right.
That's obviously something wewant to showcase.
That's a big part of theinspiration for the doc.
So pre-production is whereyou're kind of you have the
funds, at least you knowpartially right, and so you can
start setting up shoots andstart shooting and start setting
up logistically what you'regoing to do.
Development is where you'rereally just doing research and
kind of like the anthropologicalpart.
(27:26):
Production is where you'reactually shooting, you're
getting the footage, you'redoing the shoots, you're on set
and then post-production is past, that it's done, now you're
editing it and then distributionis obviously where it starts.
You're going to festivals oryou're going to your network or
your Netflixes or wherever it'sgoing to land.
My initial plan was to just getit made right and if I could
(27:48):
get it into festivals, amazing.
But the enthusiasm and themomentum since a week and a half
ago has really stunned me.
Since a week and a half ago hasreally stunned me.
And I don't say that lightly,right Stunned.
So I think there is a betterconversation and a bigger
(28:09):
conversation about where it'sgonna land now, possibly.
So maybe it's not just thesesmall festivals anymore, maybe
it's like a bigger conversation.
But I'm in talks with somepeople to see what can happen,
and I do have a sponsor thatcame on board who challenged us
to raise more money.
Then they will kind of likematch it or you know, there's
(28:29):
going to be two ways, likeyou're going to.
We already actually met onegoal to get 50 backers.
So they gave us 5,000 and thenwe'll do another campaign and
then we'll get another 5,000.
So that's Bluma Whole Capital.
They're an investment companybased in Jamaica.
You guys might know about them,yeah, with David Mulling, so
they're great.
So yeah, so that's like youknow.
I put it out there, at leastthe Kickstarter part, and people
(28:51):
have been coming and circlingand asking, which is great, I
can't ask for more.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Michaela jump in when you have question.
What's in the meantime?
No, yeah, ask the question.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
So that's why I'm in that interview so you said that
you are overwhelmed andsurprised by the the response,
and I want to know why.
Because we're in media indifferent spaces.
But the reason why I startedCarry On Friends Michaela is
doing Style and Vibes and I doBreadfruit Media because we
(29:26):
think a fraction of what werepresent on our culture is not
necessarily out there for us toconsume or interact with.
So I'm not surprised by this,like I immediately like Mikaela,
you see this Right, so that washow I felt.
So what was it about theresponse that surprised you?
I just wanted to know.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Sure, I think, what surprised me.
I thought people would beexcited.
So, the same way, like, oh, wetalk about this all the time, I
talk about it all the time.
Every Caribbean person I know,especially who grew up in
jamaica or in haiti I know haitifeels similar.
I know some of trinidad is likethat.
I think we all know this aboutit, um, about the caribbean, and
that we love it.
But I just, I guess I justdidn't expect the such a
(30:11):
explosion of interest, so like,so fast.
Like I knew people would beinterested and I was saying to
myself, listen, if I can get tolike a thousand views in the
first day or so, that's prettygood.
You know, like I knew myimmediate network would care and
the people in New York.
But I hit, I think, 20,000views in like 18 hours.
(30:32):
The video is well past almost60K or 60K at this point, just
on Instagram.
That's not even includingfacebook.
I know people feel like thisabout souls and like that part
of our culture.
I guess I just didn't expect itto be so strong where people
were sharing it for me.
You know I have a team, acrowdfunding team, that helps me
try to get the, the word outthere but for the first day and
(30:56):
a half, like people just did thework for us almost like it was
shared.
So if you look at my like mylittle icon thing, I think it's
like a nine hundred and eightytimes on that one video, but my
film page also has a bunch moreand then you know each team
member there's got reshared aswell.
You know what I mean.
So it's I mean the video islike baby viral, whatever.
(31:18):
Like it's not viral yet I'm noton stage room, right but like
it's like baby viral in like thecaribbean communities and I was
like whoa.
I I think there's just a scaleof the of the support surprised
me not so much that people likedit more.
It was like whoa and people weretalking as if it was like
already made in one coming soonyeah, and I said coming soon,
(31:42):
like that's what you say in thekickstarters, but I, I don't
know, I I'm just surprised thatpeople latched on to it the way
they did.
I'm a producer, so I see somany like I don't say mistakes,
but things I would change right.
I've watched a video a total ofmaybe four times and that is to
edit, right, because I hatewatching myself listening to
myself.
I'm a producer for a reason.
(32:03):
I like being behind the camera,um, but I was told by my
crowdfunding coach that you, Ineed to be in front of it and my
enthusiasm will radiate.
And I think it did.
I think so.
I think that's part of whypeople like it.
I was also like looking forlike comments about, like my
appearance.
I was like, oh God, what arethe people going to say?
But I actually have seen nonezero.
(32:23):
You look good girl, I mean thoseare people really focused on
the content of the video, whichis what I really wanted.
Um, I just I think it was ascale of it so fast Like David
Mullings, the from, you know,from Blue Mojo Capital.
He reached out to me actuallyand he said that he got it sent
to him four times that day, like.
(32:47):
So I was like, really.
And then I met this girl lastweek at um.
A friend of mine had a birthdaydinner.
He's in New York from Jamaicaand the girl was like, oh,
you're the girl from the video,the souls video.
I was like what?
Like, yeah, she's from, shelives here now.
But like, again, I didn't knowit was reaching people, people
(33:07):
who had also one said no tobeing on the team Cause when I
was looking for, likecrowdfunding team members, two
people ended up dropping out orjust not ghosting me.
And then one of them was like oh, somebody sent it to me on
Twitter and then she sent anapology.
I've had sponsors who I reachedout to try and do a matching
campaign or help us reach backout to me after seeing the video
(33:31):
, even though they ignored me.
That stuff has been like reallyinteresting.
I think that that part of ithas surprised me, that stuff has
been like really interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I think that part of it has surprised me.
I think what truly happens ispeople like to see the concept
and because it was executed sowell in terms of it was like its
own mini doc, even though itwas an introduction, right, yeah
, so I think conceptually we allhave a connection to souls and
when you describe it versus whenyou have this tangible asset to
(34:05):
explain it and get excitedaround, it's the first time that
people are seeing this type ofone focus on.
We see cultural content get youknow, shared and distributed,
(34:27):
but it's won by you to.
You know you're Jamaican, youhave a connection again, your
story radiates in the video andyou were able to kind of tie it
into like a few minutes, likepeople can visualize what the
entire doc would talk about.
(34:49):
And you know all Jamaicanpeople still would love to get
excited, would love to make sureseveral cultures devote yes,
and we are very proud to kind ofwhen it's excellent.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I always tell people like no, you're not right, I
always tell people the two mostobnoxious things to be like
Jamaican and New Yorker, like aNew Yorker Cause it's just, it's
a lot.
It's very true.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Levels.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And then only about Brooklyn and Brooklyn
specifically, that's that.
No, it's so true.
And then if you come fromFlatbush?
Absolutely no, it's so true.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
And then you come from flatbush absolutely no,
it's so true, I think I guessfrom so my editor.
So I had a few things about thevideo and I worked with her
before.
So my editor her name is jennyfilipazzo, she's italian, I
think she's italian.
I worked with her on adocuseries I worked on last year
for umfinity about hip house,which is like hip hop and house
(35:50):
music.
You know, that little period hehad in like the early nineties
and she was our editor and she'samazing.
And I basically said to Jenny,I told her I was trying to do
that show was very stressfulbecause of the timeline, was
very short, not stressfulbecause of the content, but just
like got a short window to makethree episodes, right, three
weeks essentially.
So I knew she could do it, Iknew she could do it fast and I
(36:12):
was like, listen, jenny, I haveno money.
I was like it's a three minutevideo.
I said there's no more thanthree minutes, like anything
over three minutes for aKickstarter is a death knell.
You don't want more than threeminutes.
In fact, if I could get it downto two and a half minutes, that
is the key right.
The shorter the better.
I'm aware of people's shortattention spans.
I'm convinced I have adhd, so Iwant it to be short.
(36:36):
I sent her all the stuff thatyou see in the video.
For the most part, like all thearchival stuff I'd source the
interview with assassin um agentsasko and, you know, the
elephant man, all the stuff inthere I had sourced and like we
kind of talked about how Iwanted it to kind of look, and
that version of the video is, Iguess, like the fourth cut it's.
You know, the first one waslike five minutes and we cut it
(36:58):
down to three and you know whatI mean.
And then I had a couple things.
One of the things I noticedthat is, um, I hate to hear it
is that the audio doesn't matchfor the part where I'm like a
kid because I had shot this wayback in February when I first
had this idea.
My friend shot it for free andit was before I hired my coach,
(37:19):
justin who's I have acrowdfunding coach, and so he
was like you need like apersonal thing, and I was like,
oh, but I thought I explainedthat he's like, no, you need
like a personal thing and I waslike, oh, but I thought I
explained that he's like, no,you need something where you are
talking about it in like adifferent way.
And I was like, all right, Ican't reshoot it, I have no
money for that.
So I didn't pay him the firsttime, so I definitely don't pay
the second time.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto find childhood pictures and
(37:44):
then we'll just put VO.
So I was on a show working, sowe had like an interview room,
cause that's where I do all myinterviews for the show.
So it was quiet enough, right,it was at the studio in Jersey
and I was like, okay, I'm goingto go in there and record like
10 seconds of VO.
20 seconds was my absolute maxBecause remember, I had like a
two and a half minute like hardthree minute mat.
(38:04):
No, my max was three minutes.
So I went in there and I waslike these pictures, Jenny, have
to fit into this like 15seconds, um.
So for me I hear it every timeif I listen to it doesn't match,
um, but you know people want itin the hear it and two days
seem to love it anyway.
So it's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I can relate to.
You know, being an editor, youfeel like, yeah, that not quite
right, but I think that segmentof it connected, because we were
all young listening to thesemusic.
Like I would tell I mean this isnot quite souls, but you know,
I would talk to my husband, hissister, so my sister-in-law, her
husband, brother-in-law, and wewould talk to my husband, his
(38:46):
sister, so my sister-in-law, herhusband, brother-in-law, and we
would talk about how DerekHarriot did sing some songs and
I'm like we shouldn't have beensinging these songs, you know,
but because the parents weresinging it and we remember,
because the music it's, it's asoundtrack of our lives, right,
so you remember where you are ata particular time.
(39:08):
Like Barry G was huge for me.
So I remember what it was likecoming home from school and
listening to Barry G.
So while you, from an editingperspective, didn't like that,
the, the image of the kids or asa child resonates because we
are all connecting.
Michaela, all of us herestarted connecting to music when
(39:32):
we have no reason for sayingI'm your lady, you know, none of
those things are.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I'm leaving on the next plane out Celine Dion,
whatever it was, or If you Placeto Leave your Love, all by Paul
Simon, which my dad is like oneof his favorite songs ever.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I'm like listen, my mom would um kill songs by
surface and all these people andI was just like.
When I listened to them, I waslike why them does love all of
these hot bricks are they wasjust it was just like sad, oh my
gosh.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I love song, they do.
Jamaicans are actually prettysentimental people, I find, when
it comes to music.
And I read somewhere and Ithink I said it in the doc about
there's no guilty pleasuremusic and I can't remember where
I heard that quote from, Ithink it was from Diplo,
actually in like a Rolling Stonearticle Cause, again, I've been
reading up on a lot of thisstuff for many months now, and
(40:25):
it's true.
Jamaicans months now, um, andit's true.
Jamaicans you know the wayamericans are a little bit
sometimes like elitist aboutmusic, like oh, this is terrible
or like whatever, especiallylike rock fans are like that.
They're very like, you know,this is not good.
Um, jamaicans don't really havethat gauge.
Like, they love a melody, theylove big kind of big melodic
ballads and um, so I think thatreally is what it's like their
(40:47):
foundation.
They love country music, Ithink because of the
storytelling and the outlawtheme, and then they they just
love a classic song, like aclassic song structure, you know
what I mean.
Like it's they're not on theside.
It's simple, because I thinkthose that out of the music is
actually quite complex and theway they redo it in the reggae,
which is another huge aspect isreally interesting.
(41:09):
Um, and one of the things Ireally don't want to get into in
the doc where people are likesee, we did this first and like
I don't want any of like, who isappropriate like?
It's not about that.
That's what I said in the end,because that's genuinely why I
want to do this.
I think music in general rightis so much about just like food,
so much about taking things andmaking something your own with
(41:31):
what you have.
Like a lot of the South theyclaim country music, but some of
that, some of those themes, areMexican.
Actually, the cowboy hat isMexican.
Um, you know some of the bands,you know the band, just from
Africa.
Like I'm just saying, everybodytakes their own thing and it
becomes your own cultural stuff,and so that's what I want to
focus on, not about like you'retaking this from us and like you
know, or from Trinidad, becauseI think Deo is actually like a
(41:56):
Trinidadian song, the originalversion before Harry Belafonte's
version took off.
Right, I have a whole grid ofthis stuff, and that's what I'm
saying.
It's not about like Trinidadgetting upset.
It's just like, listen, we ofthis stuff.
Um, and that's what I'm saying.
So it's not about, liketrinidad getting upset.
It's like, listen, we're allconnected, all the diaspora, we
(42:17):
all made something different.
Soca is its own thing andcalypso you know what I mean
like, but it's all originated inlike the same place, at least
the foundation, I think, ofmusic it's, and then you do what
you can.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I think we, you know, and Michaela, we talked about
this in collectively and we hada music ethnocologist on the
podcast and we talked aboutgetting away from the origin
story.
And Michaela and I we've beentalking about this a lot,
particularly with Afrobeats andDancehall, and those
conversations take away from theactual music that we're trying
(42:48):
to enjoy, Like, for instance,when Beyonce came out with the
whole country music.
There was a documentary thattalked about the first recording
of a banjo or a type of banjois the slaves in Jamaica and I
was so surprised.
But Jamaica is not going toclaim that they sad them create
country music.
(43:08):
It was just.
You know, it's the history andum, from a creative perspective,
that frees me up to not thinkof, not that I was, but I think
it frees you up to think ofmyself only in boxes of dance or
reggae and soca.
I can be more than this becausethere's country and I think
that's why we love the music theway we do and Michaela and I we
(43:31):
are creative in the way we arebecause culturally we were never
boxed in.
So you talk about hip house Igrew up in that generation're
doing.
You know they had the dancecrews, so music because that was
a love that I have, becauseafter TV sign off you only had
(43:53):
the radio.
Because I had this variety ofmusic.
I was never boxed in to thinkof things a particular way.
Again to Michaela's point wecould go into a party and
there's a praise and worshipsegment, there's the soca
segment, there's the old like,there's so much because it
(44:17):
represents how we think aboutmusic and how we communicate,
and I think that's where we canfree up ourselves creatively.
I think make Michaela loves totalk about how we like to box
artists in and artists alsodon't want to.
You know, there's a time andplace to box people in and
there's a time to put your forkdown and claim a genre, just
(44:40):
because that's how the industryworks and I think that trips up
our artists in terms of but Ilike souls and I like gospel and
I like don't do that really,you know so no.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
And that's the thing that souls because souls is not
one genre Like I would love tosay, it's just R and B, cause we
love that.
You know that Kelly price, andthere's a few songs that we love
like rock me tonight.
You know we love some of thosesongs, but that's Freddie
Jackson, I think, Um, but youalso play like a Mariah Carey
song alongside it.
You'll also play Celine Dionalongside it.
You'll play, you know, Ambrosia, who I posted last night.
(45:15):
We don't even do that.
It's about the.
For us it's all the same kindof ballad structure.
So we, you know, we neverreally got into that and I do
find those conversations alittle bit reductive.
I hear this with like, you know, like Afrobeats is taking over
dance hall.
It's like or taking, and I'mlike well, I'm happy for them.
Actually, I think that's great.
(45:35):
I think it's time for Africaand you know, Nigeria and South
Africa to have their moments.
You know a lot of thoseAfrobeats artists.
A lot of their early stuffsounded like dance hall.
They were heavily influenced.
Whiz kid you can hear it in hisearly music.
Burn a boy you hear it in hisearly music.
It sounds very close todancehall and I think they found
their own.
You know the more distinctsound.
You know um, eventually.
(45:57):
But like I love that.
They, you know, tookinspiration.
And afro beats is amazing.
I listen to afro beats probablyyou know 60 of the week, right,
so it's not, it's not a time, atime upset.
I don't know why we have to dothat.
Like for me, when I heard theChronix and WizKids song, like
this is my world in one place,Like I was so happy to hear that
(46:18):
I don't see the need to feellike we need to be upset about
it.
Also, Jamaica's like 3 millionpeople on an island and you're
talking about like a wholecontinent.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I was like like that'scrazy, right, we should all be,
I think, a little bit more.
This is just my opinion.
I'm not advocating for anybodyelse to feel this way.
Just think it's more aboutusing what you have and the
(46:43):
influence and what theinstruments, just like with food
and, you know, turning it intowhatever it is that works for
you, and some of it can bereally amazing.
I think some of the best reggaesongs are covers of a soft rock
song or a country song.
Like I can't even imagineMissing you by Sanchez not
existing.
I can't imagine it.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I love that song.
Or in the eighties, when theywere singing, you got a fast car
car that was like a whole coverof like yeah, and I love both.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
I love tracy chapman and I really love those versions
of some of those songs, likeeven like country road, take me
home, you know, like that is agreat song.
Also, bob marley's firstrecords were covers, you know,
before he found his song and hewas doing more reggae, he was
doing like scout music on first.
So that's not what this doc isabout.
So if anybody's looking forlike we did this first and like
(47:34):
in like a more divisive, that'snot gonna happen.
It's just not what I want tofocus on.
It's for me, it's like and Ihear haiti listen, I hear I see
the comments.
I hear you haiti, I hear youtrinidad, we know, know, I know
they feel this way too.
I'm like I just don't have theresources to, to, to go all over
the Caribbean to shoot, and butI know they feel, I know a lot
(47:55):
of them feel similarly to to me.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
No, I think Souls is more about the tempo, and so you
know the, the, the feeling thatyou get around the, the rock,
even yacht rock.
what they call it now pop,ballads, country, r&b, a certain
tempo of disco, you know, likeall of the the 70s souls, um,
(48:22):
movement, like it's really aboutthis tempo and I think, think
the genres themselves aren'tunique, but the way that it is
packaged in Jamaica and in theCaribbean is unique and that's a
cultural thing and I think,kind of tying it back to what we
were talking about, I think alot of the, the, the
(48:44):
mis-conversations and and um,the opposite ends really comes
from equity, heritage andmistreatment of culture, and so
neither party is wrong in theirsentiment and perception.
However, the equity has beenlost amongst all of us and I
(49:06):
think that we have to do abetter connective job of
recognizing each other in thehistory, because we've seen how
history gets erased right and sothe conversations really get
fired and passionate behind thepotential erasure of collective
(49:26):
history.
We've seen it with countrymusic and we've seen it with
country music and we've seen itwith hip hop music.
So those consorted efforts toreally say, hey, it's not just
this, it is this, and thensomeone telling you no, it's
this.
And then we're like but this isall well documented in history,
that it's not just this thing.
(49:47):
Why are you not including usand you can literally hear the
tempos, the this and that and toyour point, the entire industry
has evolved and the way that weconsume music have created you
know the evolution of it.
But again, I think theconversations really are about
(50:08):
us being included in theconversations around equity and
inclusion of the historicalreferences, and I think we don't
need to fight about it, and Ithink people fight more in the
comment section than they do inperson.
So I think, like no, noCaribbean person is really
asking about whose rice isbetter than this one on a daily
(50:28):
basis.
Like nobody, I will eat arrozcon doles.
I will eat rice and peas.
We'll eat the black rice.
I'm going to want that jalapeñorice too, but on the internet
it narrows.
It can't be like that on theinternet.
It's just the internet.
So I think we all in a party wehear Afro beats.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
We hear souls.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
We hear danza, we hear R&B, we can even do a
little of the new hip hop stuff,and that is what we I think
most people really in the entireBlack diaspora really want to
experience.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
By the way, I wish more parties played souls here.
I do.
That's not like in the.
I think in flatbush it happens,but if I go to like certain
parts that's not happening and Imiss it.
I miss it a lot.
I actually have to say I havetried to create on my phone
every night the same kind ofplaylist or same kind of stuff
(51:27):
like that for Spotify that, likeum, fame FM used to do at night
, I don't know.
Please add tags.
Okay, I will, I will, I willshare.
There's actually a few of them.
If you just type in souls mix,a few people have done them
already and they're actuallyreally really good.
There's like songs, like 80songs, and they're really good.
(51:47):
So one of the tiers of therewards for Kickstarter.
At the $50 tier you get aplaylist curated by me with,
like, I would say, maybe like 40or maybe not as many as that,
but reggae covers of differentgenres.
And then at the $100 mark,there is a Souls mixtape curated
(52:10):
just for the campaign by DJDangles from Federation Song,
and it's all the classics.
He left out a few becausethere's some songs I want to
tackle.
I mean, come on, you can't haveeverything, yeah, in the doc
itself and even some things Itry not to talk about too much.
I've talked a little bit aboutsome of those things here, but I
try not to talk about them toomuch because I want to make sure
in the dark it feels fresh andnot like oh, I heard her say all
(52:31):
of this before in her socialmedia.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
No, there is so much we did not even cover, yeah, but
even like the Marty Robbinsthing.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
I actually don't post that just because it's a thing
I really want to explore alittle bit deeper, because I see
the connections being really sostrong.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Okay, so what we need to do is make sure that, before
and after your search MartyRobbins before, like the search
relevancy of Marty Robbinsbefore and after the doc get
released, because that is goingto be the indicator.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Yeah, that's a good idea.
My hope is that in some wayslabels are more friendly to docs
like this.
You don't have to give us thewhole song to use, but I think
it actually drums up interestmore for those artists.
I think nostalgia is a reallypowerful thing, I think
especially with millennials andGen X, and I have a theory about
(53:24):
this.
I think it's because there'snow the internet, right, but we
grew up in some ways before theinternet became the way of the
world.
So people, these kids won'tforget like what they liked.
There's like a record there oftheir Instagram or whatever, but
, like we remember a time whenwe couldn't, you know, I
couldn't even Shazam.
Like to your point aboutknowing Air supply, the artist's
(53:46):
name, like I didn't know whothey were.
When I was seven I didn't knowthe name of the band.
We didn't have shazam, right.
I discovered that they were airsupply later, right?
Um?
Speaker 2 (53:56):
so I think that the nostalgia for gen x and then
like milenius is really strongbecause we like we yearn for
jay-z from an explorationperspective, because if you
think about like shows, likestranger things, yeah, tap into
that 80s era of nostalgia likeuh, what's her name?
Something bush kate bush yeahlike her inclusion, her music
(54:20):
being included in in strangerthings, yes, really amplified
people discovering her and hermusic and her catalog and.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
Fleetwood Mac.
Yes, yeah, I think I think it'sthey rediscover, I think they
discover, but for us it's likepure nostalgia.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yes, yes, so for for for corporations it it equals
more money, so that's why theyshould include it completely so.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Um, we can't do this labrishing thing forever, but we
just want to.
Mikaela is laughing because welove music Like I want to give
you my I call it my genrebending playlist, because the
mix up what is in this playliston my phone does not make sense
to anybody else out here.
There's no reason why GregoryAbbott and Richard Mark should
(55:06):
be on the same playlist, but itworked for me and Jamaica.
Excited about you know whatcreators like you are doing to
present stories that mean somuch to us being told in a way
(55:33):
that just resonates.
You know, because it's notgonna just resonate with me,
because when dance I keep outthe street.
I'm not for them ears alone.
I hear it, all of us arehearing it, and that's that's
what radio did for us growing up.
We all heard it.
We all interacted with adifferent way.
(55:54):
I remember when I was in gradethree or grade four there was no
reason why I'm singing Karen'swhite.
I'm your super woman.
There's no, there's no reason.
But every Jamaican kid knowsthat song, right?
Every Jamaican child knows thatsong.
So that's the power of musicand that's the power of telling
(56:15):
or interaction with music, evenif it originates somewhere else.
You know the way that a cultureinteracts with it creates a
whole new story and experience,so I'm super excited about it.
Mikaela and I will drop thelinks to the crowdfund.
When does it end?
Speaker 3 (56:32):
It ends on September 19th.
We are about 55% funded rightnow.
I'm just looking right now, sothat's great, which is unusual.
Crowdfunding campaigns forindie films.
Our coach like I said, I have acoach, justin, that I'm working
(56:53):
with who's done this a milliontimes, so he's been really
helpful.
But I put my own.
You know, I have my own ideasand spins on things.
Like Mondays we do Celine MeMonday right on our social media
, right, so it's all Celine allday, right On a Tuesday we're
doing like trivia, like reggaetrivia, to see who knows which
is a cover, and stuff like that.
(57:13):
And then the rest of the weekis just fun stuff.
Like we do a Souls pick everyday.
People are welcome to givesuggestions.
We've taken many September 19th, but feel free to, you know,
share it like it.
We have some new rewards comingup this week, I think.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, that's exciting .
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yes, and I'm right, I got to do my donation today, so
on that note, jess, you knowthis is not the last of us, but
you know again, congrats on theproject and we're super excited
for you and, of course, ofcourse, and as I love to say at
the end of every episode, walk.
Good.
(57:54):
Well, michaela, what you lovesay it's been so long.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
No, but make sure you guys go out and click the link.
Uh, support roots, supportroots.
Rock, reggae and soulsdocumentary.
Um, emphasize this.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Yes, um, and share with all your friend them,
please, and thanks, cause weneed support.
Thank you so much, jess.
We appreciate being on the onthe show so anytime this was fun
it was.
Speaker 3 (58:28):
You got to do it again yeah, I mean listen, let
me know I'm always around allright, all right.
Hello everyone, welcome to this special joint
episode of Carry On FriendsStyle and Vibes and the Reels to
the Rhythms.
I'm always excited when we dothese crossover episodes because
I feel like, as Mikaela said,beer tings.
So welcome my co-host, mikaelaMedoops.
What is going on A long timestill in O'Kerry?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
We never would chill out, be still as you say.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hallelujah, hallelujah.
And we're even more excitedbecause we have Jess with us.
Jess, welcome to this crossoverevent.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm great.
Thank you guys for having me.
I'm excited.
I love the name too Realism,rhythm.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Love it, All right.
So I mean everybody alreadyknow, Michaela and myself, so
we're just going to skip to themknowing who you are.
So tell the people a little bitabout who you are.
Caribbean country you represent, the work you do, and then
we'll get into the project weare here to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Sure, yeah, I'm originally from Jamaica.
Actually, I was born in NewYork but I was never raised here
, so I don't rep it the same waybecause I was raised in Jamaica
.
So I was raised in Kingston,went to Hope Field, Prep, and
then Campion Shout out to allthe Campion mastermen and I came
(01:27):
back here for college, you knowas about 17.
So I've been here in New Yorkfor a long time I consider both
home at this point and so I'vebeen working in TV now for over
a decade, I would say since 2013.
So I've been 11 years of TVsand I've done a bunch of
different positions across TV.
But this doc I'm coming up iskind of like my first doc by
(01:48):
myself.
I've worked on stuff on Netflixand I do a lot of Food Network
shows as a producer.
I've been working on A&E stufflately and PBS.
I do like a food show for PBSevery year, but I love music, so
that's really why I'm happy tobe doing this.
So I kind of do two things foodshows and music.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, two things dear to a heart we love Rebellion
and we love music.
So you're right in the companyof me and Michaela.
So we reached out to youbecause you have and I'll throw
it to Michaela to finish therest you have a documentary
that's coming out that's calledRoots Rock Reggae, and Michaela
(02:34):
cue you.
So I was so excited when I sawthis project because, as
Michaela said, I've been in achill and be still
semi-sabbatical.
But when I saw it I was justlike this was kismet.
It was meant to be, becauseMichaela and I talk about
(02:57):
dancehall and the segments indance.
You have the praise and worship, you have the throwak tunes,
you have the souls section.
We have all these things andit's very hard for people to
understand, like, why we dothese things.
So talk to me about the project, why you started it and all
that good stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Okay.
So I again grew up in Kingstonand every night would listen to
Fame FM.
Every night I didn't have TV inmy room, so every night, even
now I still do it with, likeSpotify, I listen to.
You know, souls at night, whichis, you know it can range.
That's why it's called Souls onthe R&B, because it can range
(03:39):
from country to pop to pop,ballads to soft rock.
I don't really know what theexact definition is, we'll get
into that in the doc, but weknow, and we hear it, what is
sold right.
We know certain artists areprobably not sold.
We're not playing them at thedance, right, and so I've always
loved this part of Jamaicanculture in general.
(03:59):
I just find it so fascinatinghow we love artists like Marty
Robbins and Patsy Cline andthese really old country artists
.
And on a Sunday up until Ithink, when Zip FM maybe came on
the scene, which was, I forgotwhich year Zip debuted in
Jamaica we never playeddancehall and those things on a
(04:19):
Sunday.
On a Sunday it was always yougo back, right, and it was for
after church and you don't play,even though I love Bushu dearly
, you know, but you're notplaying that kind of more, you
know, even though Bushu notsuper hardcore, but you know
what I'm saying.
You're not playing an elephantman on a Sunday.
You're not playing certainartists, ninja man on a Sunday,
you're playing older artists,you're playing old country.
(04:43):
So I've always thought aboutthis and what really sparked the
doc is two things.
One I was in Paris a coupleyears ago with some friends of
mine.
I was playing water from themoon.
We were like all playing musicand, like our friends, paris
laughed and they just didn'tlove water from the moon and I I
was like what?
(05:04):
This is our song.
I was so hurt internally.
And then last year my dad gotan award for his service to
Jamaica, you know, on the HeroesDay.
So he got one of the awards forhis service as an air traffic
controller.
So but the night I was onlythere for 36 hours in Jamaica
(05:25):
and I went to this party calledI Love Souls and it's every
Sunday night.
Shout out to them, we're goingto work with them on the dock
and I was like uptown people canbe a little stiff, but
everybody was dancing, everybodywas singing, everybody.
I beat them juice and I singout to Celine and Michael Bolt
and Lady in Red was dancing.
(05:45):
Everybody was singing,everybody.
I beat them juice and I singout to celine and michael bolt,
and then lady in red, and I waslike you know, I realized that
some songs are songs that justwe love in the caribbean, from
the paris incident, right, theparis situation, and then I was
like I've never gone to a placein the world and I've traveled a
lot where people only play thisfor the entire night and then,
(06:06):
like people love Celine all overthe world, we're not unique and
loving Celine.
But to go to a place and youonly hear soft rock and micro
boats and an air supply and youknow what I mean meatloaf maybe,
right, that is unusual for therest of the world.
And so I was like somebodyshould do a doc on this and I
(06:26):
was like, well, why don't I justdo it?
Like you make television, youknow.
So that's really where it camefrom.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I think what I love about what you shared is the
inspiration behind it and thefact that you saw something that
was missing and you said I'mcapable of doing this.
That was missing and you saidI'm capable of doing this, let
me do it.
And I think that to me that iscultural preservation at its
finest.
And I think souls, as it isknown, that section, that genre,
(06:59):
is very unique to the Caribbeanand it really goes back to what
we played on radio.
So even going further back,reggae wasn't even allowed on
radio.
So we've seen glimpses of thisin other documentaries.
So the one with Biggie talkingabout how he went back to
Jamaica and his mom reallytalking about how her favorite
(07:22):
artist, and then even in a pastpodcast episode with Miss Pat,
she talked about selling R&Brecords on the road through her
record label record store at thetime.
So they weren't even the label.
So it just goes with theculture, essentially of how that
(07:46):
really grew.
But I'm curious, even in thatparty has souls transcended to
this next generation?
I know that they listen to R&Band I know that they listen to
other genres, but souls as weknow it, of this nice little
presentable box, has thattransitioned to the next
(08:08):
generation?
I don't know, so that's why I'masking.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean there were some younger people there.
I'm a millennial for sure.
I'm probably like a geriatricmillennial at this point, but
yeah, there were younger peoplethere.
I would say it tended to leadprobably, you know, younger
millennial, but there were somepeople I know for sure in like
probably their mid-20s because Ifeel like their parents music
(08:33):
now is probably like, are likeUsher and Beyonce and you know
some of those.
Or Keisha Cole, right, that'swhy it's that song love has been
like all over.
I feeling like in some wayswe're the aunties now and so
like I think for them, maybesome of the older, super old
stuff might not, they might notknow that stuff, but they still
understand, I think, the conceptof it as a like r&b.
(08:55):
But you could also have an edsheeran, which is in the same
box, even though he's a popartist.
You know what I mean.
I think that still doestranslate, but I don't think
they maybe know unless they havetheir grandparents still around
, like Marty Robbins, who we,you know lots of Jamaicans love
Marty Robbins um, one of thethings you said before and I
(09:19):
don't know if you'll cover this,but you know, I'm I'm in the
Gen generation.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So I grew up when there was just one, it was just
JBC, and everything else wasradio and TV sign off and the
radio format.
You talked about it on Sunday,right Sunday morning, before
church collectively starts.
So most churches would start at10.
You play your Christian music.
After that that gets into thecountry music and by late
(09:46):
afternoon it's some Latin typemusic, whether it's bossa nova
or some salsa, and then as weget into the nighttime it gets
to be the souls or whatever.
Right.
And there was a particularradio format.
My favorite radio disc jockeygrowing up was Donovan Dakers.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I loved.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Donovan Dakers right.
So how much has radio played arole in our love of souls, given
that for a very long time wewere a one channel country and
multiple radio stations?
And to Michaela's point, do youthink now where even though
(10:28):
Jamaica is still a heavy radiocountry, but not as much with
social media and stuff how doesthat play a role in the younger
generation experiencing soulsthe way we experienced it?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Because I don't live there full time anymore.
I don't know if they listen toit the way we do, but I think
radio in a lot of ways I thinkradio is super important to
Jamaican life.
Right, I used to live my lifeby RJR in the mornings Like
literally they had like a youknow they used to have a segment
for everything, like at 10 pastthe hour, 15 past the hour, I
(11:04):
think, at 6.30 in the morning itwas news 6.45.
So I think a lot of peoplelisten to the radio and I think
it really helps shape how wethink about like even the way
things should be played, I think, with souls in particular and
older music like country and R&B.
In a lot of ways that is thefoundation, I think, of what you
(11:26):
know in radio and I think thatto that point about the radio
station being the one I thinkthat is the foundation for all
radio stations did up untilmaybe like 15 years ago I think,
up until, I think, when Zipcame along and they started
playing more secular music on aSunday, most radio stations
still follow that kind of tieredthing on a Sunday Morning
(11:51):
gospel Afternoon you got yourold country, your Patsy Cline
and your Skeeter Davis Afternoonyou might get into a little
older, softer disco, right.
You might play some ABBA rightor something like that, and then
evening time you might go alittle bit more R&B, shy Lights,
ojs, things like that.
So I actually think radio isreally really foundational in
(12:14):
terms of how we listen to music,our palates, in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I love this idea of what radio has done for us
musically in how we relate tosouls and our love for souls.
So, all right, we know souls isa miscellaneous category for
anything that feels very R&Bsoft rock, you know, soft pop,
(12:45):
if you want to say what else?
It's anything where we feellike it's singing to a
particular, like soulful singing.
Maybe that's why we call itsouls.
It's interesting.
And you now, living in New York, all three of us, we carried
that to New York because, beingin Brooklyn, they used to keep
dance where it was a completelysouls team dance.
(13:08):
The whole night is souls, right.
So I want to ask a really funquestion when we think of
dancehall and dancehall parties,jamaica or the US, what is the
number one soul song you thinkthey're going to play in the
dance?
In your opinion, michaela andJess, what's the number one song
(13:29):
you know?
So then I'm going to pull atune here in the soul section of
this dance.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So my instinct, like once he said it, my instinct was
Michael Bolton's Soul Provider.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's like the song, and then they rinse it with the
Romy and Virgo on cover.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
It just came to my mind instantly.
It's one of my favorite soulsongs.
We know Jamaicans love MichaelBolton.
I guess I was going to go withmy instinct and say Michael
Bolton's Soul Survival.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I got to go with my instinct too.
First name came to mind wasCeline Dion, but the song that
came to mind is Like a VirginMadonna.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Interesting the song that comes to my mind is Guilty
with Barbara Streisand and BarryGinn.
Then we got nothing to beguilty, oh yes.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
We love that song.
We really do love that song,really do love that song.
It's true, we also love this isone, celine um, I'm alive,
let's anything.
Celine just run they love icecorrendo men dance to these soul
songs well, that's one of thethings that really is a big part
(14:39):
of the doc for me that I wantto make sure I touch on is that
Jamaicans also and I can't speakfor other islands, but
Jamaicans in particular picktheir own singles.
So there are songs that arejust popular in Jamaica and I
say this because I've been doinga lot of research right, and
artists would come to Jamaica,like Kenny Rogers the first time
(15:00):
he came.
I don't want to give too muchaway from the doc, but like
Kenny Rogers came to Jamaica andyou know, our favorite song is
Write your Name Across my Heart.
Right, we love that song, it'sone of our favorite songs
outside of the Gambler, probably.
And it's not a single.
It was never released.
So Promoto was like listen, youhave to close with this song.
(15:21):
And so he's been interviewed byWinford Williams and he's like
oh, we're not going to do that.
And I know he did it because Iread the article after.
And so the promoter must havebeen like absolutely not, right,
this is your, this is yourgambler here.
Right, and Jamaicans do that alot.
We'll pick a song I don't knowwhat exactly.
We gravitate in the song andthat's our, that's our favorite
(15:44):
song there's like this onerandom Celine Dion song that
they play at the dance all thetime, that literally nobody I've
ever mentioned it in Americaknows it.
They're like what?
And they know a lot of CelineDion song, but they don't know
this song.
I think it's called calledsomething about her mother.
I forget the name of it.
It's like mama, you gave mewings to fly.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I know that song.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
It is not a single right and I think it's Goodbye
is the hardest word.
I think that's the name of thesong and it's really a hit in
Jamaica, particularly likedowntown.
I don't know why, I don't knowwhere it came from, I don't know
.
Jamaicans like to taste, reallyfascinates me, like what they
(16:28):
gravitate towards and what theykind of reject.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
you know it's so interesting because when I used
to go back to Jamaica forvacation, I would hear songs
play on the radio that I didn'thear it even on the R&B station
here.
Particularly there was a songwith James Ingram and Anita
Baker from a movie and I wasjust like I've never heard this
(16:49):
song and people were like, whatis this?
It wasn't even played on theblack stations here and in
Jamaica.
I mean, almost every night itplay after you're just like I
had no choice but to know it.
So, um, another fun questionfor both of you who is an artist
that um?
(17:10):
For you, jess, that you knowthis artist in Jamaica but you
in America they're like who isthis um?
And Michaela, maybe, for youit's what's a song that you know
that you went to Jamaica forthe summer or for holiday or
whatever, and you heard it andyou came back and everyone's
like what is this sort of likeBiggie's experience?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
yeah, I think I think it was more the group Air
Supply.
I'm like I don't know who AirSupply is, because I, and then
they start playing.
So I'm like, oh yeah, I do knowair supply and I'm like, but I
can't put a face to to the songsbecause I didn't know who they.
You know what I mean, like thename of the band.
It's only like probably maybeeven the last 10 years that I
(17:52):
even really did the research onwho and and it was because of
probably like my mother-in-lawlike talking about air supply
and I'm like who's that?
And they're like, you know airsupply, man, you know them tune,
yeah, and them play the tune.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, me knowthat song.
But true, my mother was a rebel,so I be a reggae, she play, I
(18:14):
write me a reggae and dance, soshe play.
So my auntie was the souls andI mean my lady.
She would lock up in her roomand I'd vice out every song and
at that time, you know, she camehere so she was listening to
R&B station, so it's mostly.
And then she'd make like haveto, like put in tapes and all
these kind of.
(18:34):
So that's how I really gotexposed to the souls.
And then when I would go toJamaica I'd hear like CDs and
parties that would have thosesegments and it just kind of
stuck.
I'm like, yes, only in Jamaica.
It's one of those best keptsecrets of Jamaica, to be
completely honest.
And it's one that I think weshould preserve, because it's so
(18:56):
good I agree.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
The funny thing is, when I started working on this,
I'm gonna answer your question.
But when I started working onthis, um, I looked up air supply
because I was like, oh, we loveso many other songs and there's
all these reddit threads andstuff like, oh, air supply sucks
, and like cindy on is the worstand like michael jackson is
like the worst, like, like, notmichael jackson, I'm so sorry
michael bolton and you knowthey've parodied him in movies
(19:19):
about how his music sucks andI'm just like what this is
amazing, like how dare you comefor Michael Bolton and Kenny G
and these people, um, to yourpoint about artists, though, I
think, unless I met somebodyfrom the south, like from the
you know, who grew up inTennessee, oressee or, um, not
in florida, like you know, likedeep, you know deep south
(19:40):
tennessee and south carolina,people don't know marty robbins
and my drums are really oldartists that make sense, but I
listened to him a lot in jamaicaactually growing up like, um,
the el paso song is huge in thedark.
I'm gonna draw a lot ofparallels and I have a whole
graphics thing in mind.
Um, but between like some ofthe lyrics and some of the songs
(20:04):
from like like marty robbins,to some of the dancehall lyrics
which I think there is a, Ithink there's a chain, um, you
know the big iron on his hip toyou know car tell, on him 9 000
guns that he named drops and andyou know, I think jamaicans
love an outlaw right that youhear it with a rude boy.
They love an outlaw, they loveour rebel and dancehall is like
(20:26):
rebel culture in a lot of waysand so I actually think a lot of
it is rooted in like countryand western movies and music to
where you get to dancehall andsome of the same themes.
I think even some lyrics in somecases overlap which I'm even
the names of the artists oh yeah, josie wales, josie wales, um,
(20:46):
johnny osborne, a lot of yeahand so and that's because we
only had one station right um,growing up and he did play that
on a sunday or whatever, becauseyou have to fill the airtime
when you don't have news.
I mean, jamaica's a smallisland.
Like how much content can weproduce for our station?
So I I think that it's a bigfoundational part of like what
we listen to is like really oldcountry west.
(21:08):
They love those themes and youeven hear.
It's like a wayne marshall songmarshall in town and it's the
whole.
They love it, you know.
So I think for me that's one ofthe things that a lot of people
, even though they grew uparound a lot of Caribbean people
in New York, I think some ofthose really old school country
they didn't know even that wouldsurprise me.
(21:29):
Um, yeah, I think it's a littlebit different if you grew up in
the island it's so interestingthat you talk about country
because I can think of.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
you know, of course, we know Kenny Rogers the gambler
.
Oh my God, even the other daymy husband was singing it.
Right, I even, to a certaindegree I've talked to Michaela
like I really think LionelRichie is a country singer, but
they just put him in R&B.
But one but one country singerwhose album went really pop that
(22:00):
when I moved here no one reallyknew about her, is Crystal Gale
.
And everyone loved, and theyfirst.
They loved her because she hadhair all the way down to her
ankles, so that was one thing,but all everyone would sing was
a long and lasting love, andthey just kept singing that song
over and over.
(22:20):
So there's something there withthe country music and Jamaica
that is very interesting interms of the correlation.
So I can't wait to see it withyour doc.
So let's go back to the doc.
You are doing a crowdfund rightnow.
What's the goal of thecrowdfunding?
Where are you in the theproduction of this documentary?
(22:43):
And I'm gonna add one morequestion because we want to know
is this going to go the filmfestival circuit?
Is it going to be a generalrelease?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
let's know what's happening okay, great, this is
two great questions.
So we're still inpre-production.
Actually, it's funny.
I think this video, theKickstarter video, was so strong
that people are like it's likea trailer.
I'm like not quite.
We have a lot to film.
There's a lot of people I'mtrying to get to be in.
The doc Celine is obviously myMount Everest of interviews that
(23:16):
I'd like to have.
I have people, have peoplealready on board and so I've.
I've been amassing content andarchival and I've had some yeses
for when I go to Jamaica inOctober.
So I have a couple of shootsalready scheduled there and I've
shot like a couple of smallthings already.
But the crowdfunding is reallyfor production, right.
Um, if you work in TV and filmspace, um, you are aware, or if
(23:39):
you follow the industry trends,you know that it's been on a
significant downturn since lastyear, since the strikes, since
the writer strikes last year,which has happened in last May.
So I think the official numbersI saw there they were like it's
like down 40% or something,which is a lot right.
It employs a lot of California,a lot of New York.
So we've been in a really slowseason and I decided to launch
(24:02):
the crowdfunding because Ididn't want to wait to get told
yes, I find in TV, just likewith other trends, market trends
in other spaces and I'm not abusiness person by any means
trust me.
I've learned that from thisexperience.
But there's certain times whenthey're green lighting certain
things right.
Sports is hot right now, youknow.
True crime is hot.
(24:23):
Everybody wants to do a truecrime doc.
So it was kind of hard for amusic space and unless you're
Caribbean, you don't thinkthere's a big audience for this.
If I was going to send, like,an executive somewhere, right,
and I just didn't want to bewaiting and waiting.
I haven't worked as much as Inormally work in the past year
and a half, so I'm like I couldeither use this time to stress
(24:46):
myself out every day andapplying for new gigs and I've
worked, but just not nearly asmuch as I normally work Normally
I'm like overlapping sometimesit's so busy or I could put my
energy into something that Iactually want to make care about
my people, my story.
And then what's stopping meMoney?
Right, that's the thing that's.
The barrier is the money, Ithink even the access to people.
(25:09):
I know enough and I think I'sfind money and instead of
waiting for, you know, netflixor whoever to say, yes, let's
raise some money on our ownRight and hopefully people would
either come or it gets made andlike a hundred people see it
(25:32):
and it still got made and ahundred people love it.
That was where I landed, and sothe month I was raising is
actually significantly less thanI wanted to raise.
But Kickstarter is all ornothing.
So if you don't get all thefunding, you get no funding, and
it's not about not beingambitious, but you don't want to
overshoot and then miss rightand then get nothing.
(25:56):
I'd rather have $20,000 thanhave miss right and then get
nothing.
I'd rather have $20,000 thanhave you know.
Try to raise 40, but raise 32and didn't get anything.
You know what I'm saying.
So that's where the Kickstartercame in and I can elaborate,
but I won't keep going.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
No, no, no.
And I think in terms of if justexplain a little bit more when
you, when you said you're inpre-production, just let the
audience know specifically whatthat means.
It's just like identifying thepotential guests, etc.
And then post-production,because we want the audience to
support it and we want toexplain to them clearly where
(26:32):
you are in the process so theycould support it cool, cool, um.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So all right, so you have like four stages,
essentially actually five stages, of production.
Really.
You have development, you havepre-production, you have
production, post-production andthen distribution.
Right, we for a long time werein development, where I was
researching and stuff like that,and then I started reaching out
to people like hey, like youknow, there's people who have
reached out to try and be in thedark, like our I Love Souls.
You know, friends, that partyright, we're going to shadow
(27:05):
them a bit and like shoot someof that party right.
That's obviously something wewant to showcase.
That's a big part of theinspiration for the doc.
So pre-production is whereyou're kind of you have the
funds, at least you knowpartially right, and so you can
start setting up shoots andstart shooting and start setting
up logistically what you'regoing to do.
Development is where you'rereally just doing research and
kind of like the anthropologicalpart.
(27:26):
Production is where you'reactually shooting, you're
getting the footage, you'redoing the shoots, you're on set
and then post-production is past, that it's done, now you're
editing it and then distributionis obviously where it starts.
You're going to festivals oryou're going to your network or
your Netflixes or wherever it'sgoing to land.
My initial plan was to just getit made right and if I could
(27:48):
get it into festivals, amazing.
But the enthusiasm and themomentum since a week and a half
ago has really stunned me.
Since a week and a half ago hasreally stunned me.
And I don't say that lightly,right Stunned.
So I think there is a betterconversation and a bigger
(28:09):
conversation about where it'sgonna land now, possibly.
So maybe it's not just thesesmall festivals anymore, maybe
it's like a bigger conversation.
But I'm in talks with somepeople to see what can happen,
and I do have a sponsor thatcame on board who challenged us
to raise more money.
Then they will kind of likematch it or you know, there's
(28:29):
going to be two ways, likeyou're going to.
We already actually met onegoal to get 50 backers.
So they gave us 5,000 and thenwe'll do another campaign and
then we'll get another 5,000.
So that's Bluma Whole Capital.
They're an investment companybased in Jamaica.
You guys might know about them,yeah, with David Mulling, so
they're great.
So yeah, so that's like youknow.
I put it out there, at leastthe Kickstarter part, and people
(28:51):
have been coming and circlingand asking, which is great, I
can't ask for more.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Michaela jump in when you have question.
What's in the meantime?
No, yeah, ask the question.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
So that's why I'm in that interview so you said that
you are overwhelmed andsurprised by the the response,
and I want to know why.
Because we're in media indifferent spaces.
But the reason why I startedCarry On Friends Michaela is
doing Style and Vibes and I doBreadfruit Media because we
(29:26):
think a fraction of what werepresent on our culture is not
necessarily out there for us toconsume or interact with.
So I'm not surprised by this,like I immediately like Mikaela,
you see this Right, so that washow I felt.
So what was it about theresponse that surprised you?
I just wanted to know.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Sure, I think, what surprised me.
I thought people would beexcited.
So, the same way, like, oh, wetalk about this all the time, I
talk about it all the time.
Every Caribbean person I know,especially who grew up in
jamaica or in haiti I know haitifeels similar.
I know some of trinidad is likethat.
I think we all know this aboutit, um, about the caribbean, and
that we love it.
But I just, I guess I justdidn't expect the such a
(30:11):
explosion of interest, so like,so fast.
Like I knew people would beinterested and I was saying to
myself, listen, if I can get tolike a thousand views in the
first day or so, that's prettygood.
You know, like I knew myimmediate network would care and
the people in New York.
But I hit, I think, 20,000views in like 18 hours.
(30:32):
The video is well past almost60K or 60K at this point, just
on Instagram.
That's not even includingfacebook.
I know people feel like thisabout souls and like that part
of our culture.
I guess I just didn't expect itto be so strong where people
were sharing it for me.
You know I have a team, acrowdfunding team, that helps me
try to get the, the word outthere but for the first day and
(30:56):
a half, like people just did thework for us almost like it was
shared.
So if you look at my like mylittle icon thing, I think it's
like a nine hundred and eightytimes on that one video, but my
film page also has a bunch moreand then you know each team
member there's got reshared aswell.
You know what I mean.
So it's I mean the video islike baby viral, whatever.
(31:18):
Like it's not viral yet I'm noton stage room, right but like
it's like baby viral in like thecaribbean communities and I was
like whoa.
I I think there's just a scaleof the of the support surprised
me not so much that people likedit more.
It was like whoa and people weretalking as if it was like
already made in one coming soonyeah, and I said coming soon,
(31:42):
like that's what you say in thekickstarters, but I, I don't
know, I I'm just surprised thatpeople latched on to it the way
they did.
I'm a producer, so I see somany like I don't say mistakes,
but things I would change right.
I've watched a video a total ofmaybe four times and that is to
edit, right, because I hatewatching myself listening to
myself.
I'm a producer for a reason.
(32:03):
I like being behind the camera,um, but I was told by my
crowdfunding coach that you, Ineed to be in front of it and my
enthusiasm will radiate.
And I think it did.
I think so.
I think that's part of whypeople like it.
I was also like looking forlike comments about, like my
appearance.
I was like, oh God, what arethe people going to say?
But I actually have seen nonezero.
(32:23):
You look good girl, I mean thoseare people really focused on
the content of the video, whichis what I really wanted.
Um, I just I think it was ascale of it so fast Like David
Mullings, the from, you know,from Blue Mojo Capital.
He reached out to me actuallyand he said that he got it sent
to him four times that day, like.
(32:47):
So I was like, really.
And then I met this girl lastweek at um.
A friend of mine had a birthdaydinner.
He's in New York from Jamaicaand the girl was like, oh,
you're the girl from the video,the souls video.
I was like what?
Like, yeah, she's from, shelives here now.
But like, again, I didn't knowit was reaching people, people
(33:07):
who had also one said no tobeing on the team Cause when I
was looking for, likecrowdfunding team members, two
people ended up dropping out orjust not ghosting me.
And then one of them was like oh, somebody sent it to me on
Twitter and then she sent anapology.
I've had sponsors who I reachedout to try and do a matching
campaign or help us reach backout to me after seeing the video
(33:31):
, even though they ignored me.
That stuff has been like reallyinteresting.
I think that that part of ithas surprised me, that stuff has
been like really interesting.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I think that part of it has surprised me.
I think what truly happens ispeople like to see the concept
and because it was executed sowell in terms of it was like its
own mini doc, even though itwas an introduction, right, yeah
, so I think conceptually we allhave a connection to souls and
when you describe it versus whenyou have this tangible asset to
(34:05):
explain it and get excitedaround, it's the first time that
people are seeing this type ofone focus on.
We see cultural content get youknow, shared and distributed,
(34:27):
but it's won by you to.
You know you're Jamaican, youhave a connection again, your
story radiates in the video andyou were able to kind of tie it
into like a few minutes, likepeople can visualize what the
entire doc would talk about.
(34:49):
And you know all Jamaicanpeople still would love to get
excited, would love to make sureseveral cultures devote yes,
and we are very proud to kind ofwhen it's excellent.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I always tell people like no, you're not right, I
always tell people the two mostobnoxious things to be like
Jamaican and New Yorker, like aNew Yorker Cause it's just, it's
a lot.
It's very true.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Levels.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And then only about Brooklyn and Brooklyn
specifically, that's that.
No, it's so true.
And then if you come fromFlatbush?
Absolutely no, it's so true.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
And then you come from flatbush absolutely no,
it's so true, I think I guessfrom so my editor.
So I had a few things about thevideo and I worked with her
before.
So my editor her name is jennyfilipazzo, she's italian, I
think she's italian.
I worked with her on adocuseries I worked on last year
for umfinity about hip house,which is like hip hop and house
(35:50):
music.
You know, that little period hehad in like the early nineties
and she was our editor and she'samazing.
And I basically said to Jenny,I told her I was trying to do
that show was very stressfulbecause of the timeline, was
very short, not stressfulbecause of the content, but just
like got a short window to makethree episodes, right, three
weeks essentially.
So I knew she could do it, Iknew she could do it fast and I
(36:12):
was like, listen, jenny, I haveno money.
I was like it's a three minutevideo.
I said there's no more thanthree minutes, like anything
over three minutes for aKickstarter is a death knell.
You don't want more than threeminutes.
In fact, if I could get it downto two and a half minutes, that
is the key right.
The shorter the better.
I'm aware of people's shortattention spans.
I'm convinced I have adhd, so Iwant it to be short.
(36:36):
I sent her all the stuff thatyou see in the video.
For the most part, like all thearchival stuff I'd source the
interview with assassin um agentsasko and, you know, the
elephant man, all the stuff inthere I had sourced and like we
kind of talked about how Iwanted it to kind of look, and
that version of the video is, Iguess, like the fourth cut it's.
You know, the first one waslike five minutes and we cut it
(36:58):
down to three and you know whatI mean.
And then I had a couple things.
One of the things I noticedthat is, um, I hate to hear it
is that the audio doesn't matchfor the part where I'm like a
kid because I had shot this wayback in February when I first
had this idea.
My friend shot it for free andit was before I hired my coach,
(37:19):
justin who's I have acrowdfunding coach, and so he
was like you need like apersonal thing, and I was like,
oh, but I thought I explainedthat he's like, no, you need
like a personal thing and I waslike, oh, but I thought I
explained that he's like, no,you need something where you are
talking about it in like adifferent way.
And I was like, all right, Ican't reshoot it, I have no
money for that.
So I didn't pay him the firsttime, so I definitely don't pay
the second time.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto find childhood pictures and
(37:44):
then we'll just put VO.
So I was on a show working, sowe had like an interview room,
cause that's where I do all myinterviews for the show.
So it was quiet enough, right,it was at the studio in Jersey
and I was like, okay, I'm goingto go in there and record like
10 seconds of VO.
20 seconds was my absolute maxBecause remember, I had like a
two and a half minute like hardthree minute mat.
(38:04):
No, my max was three minutes.
So I went in there and I waslike these pictures, Jenny, have
to fit into this like 15seconds, um.
So for me I hear it every timeif I listen to it doesn't match,
um, but you know people want itin the hear it and two days
seem to love it anyway.
So it's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I can relate to.
You know, being an editor, youfeel like, yeah, that not quite
right, but I think that segmentof it connected, because we were
all young listening to thesemusic.
Like I would tell I mean this isnot quite souls, but you know,
I would talk to my husband, hissister, so my sister-in-law, her
husband, brother-in-law, and wewould talk to my husband, his
(38:46):
sister, so my sister-in-law, herhusband, brother-in-law, and we
would talk about how DerekHarriot did sing some songs and
I'm like we shouldn't have beensinging these songs, you know,
but because the parents weresinging it and we remember,
because the music it's, it's asoundtrack of our lives, right,
so you remember where you are ata particular time.
(39:08):
Like Barry G was huge for me.
So I remember what it was likecoming home from school and
listening to Barry G.
So while you, from an editingperspective, didn't like that,
the, the image of the kids or asa child resonates because we
are all connecting.
Michaela, all of us herestarted connecting to music when
(39:32):
we have no reason for sayingI'm your lady, you know, none of
those things are.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I'm leaving on the next plane out Celine Dion,
whatever it was, or If you Placeto Leave your Love, all by Paul
Simon, which my dad is like oneof his favorite songs ever.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I'm like listen, my mom would um kill songs by
surface and all these people andI was just like.
When I listened to them, I waslike why them does love all of
these hot bricks are they wasjust it was just like sad, oh my
gosh.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I love song, they do.
Jamaicans are actually prettysentimental people, I find, when
it comes to music.
And I read somewhere and Ithink I said it in the doc about
there's no guilty pleasuremusic and I can't remember where
I heard that quote from, Ithink it was from Diplo,
actually in like a Rolling Stonearticle Cause, again, I've been
reading up on a lot of thisstuff for many months now, and
(40:25):
it's true.
Jamaicans months now, um, andit's true.
Jamaicans you know the wayamericans are a little bit
sometimes like elitist aboutmusic, like oh, this is terrible
or like whatever, especiallylike rock fans are like that.
They're very like, you know,this is not good.
Um, jamaicans don't really havethat gauge.
Like, they love a melody, theylove big kind of big melodic
ballads and um, so I think thatreally is what it's like their
(40:47):
foundation.
They love country music, Ithink because of the
storytelling and the outlawtheme, and then they they just
love a classic song, like aclassic song structure, you know
what I mean.
Like it's they're not on theside.
It's simple, because I thinkthose that out of the music is
actually quite complex and theway they redo it in the reggae,
which is another huge aspect isreally interesting.
(41:09):
Um, and one of the things Ireally don't want to get into in
the doc where people are likesee, we did this first and like
I don't want any of like, who isappropriate like?
It's not about that.
That's what I said in the end,because that's genuinely why I
want to do this.
I think music in general rightis so much about just like food,
so much about taking things andmaking something your own with
(41:31):
what you have.
Like a lot of the South theyclaim country music, but some of
that, some of those themes, areMexican.
Actually, the cowboy hat isMexican.
Um, you know some of the bands,you know the band, just from
Africa.
Like I'm just saying, everybodytakes their own thing and it
becomes your own cultural stuff,and so that's what I want to
focus on, not about like you'retaking this from us and like you
know, or from Trinidad, becauseI think Deo is actually like a
(41:56):
Trinidadian song, the originalversion before Harry Belafonte's
version took off.
Right, I have a whole grid ofthis stuff, and that's what I'm
saying.
It's not about like Trinidadgetting upset.
It's just like, listen, we ofthis stuff.
Um, and that's what I'm saying.
So it's not about, liketrinidad getting upset.
It's like, listen, we're allconnected, all the diaspora, we
(42:17):
all made something different.
Soca is its own thing andcalypso you know what I mean
like, but it's all originated inlike the same place, at least
the foundation, I think, ofmusic it's, and then you do what
you can.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I think we, you know, and Michaela, we talked about
this in collectively and we hada music ethnocologist on the
podcast and we talked aboutgetting away from the origin
story.
And Michaela and I we've beentalking about this a lot,
particularly with Afrobeats andDancehall, and those
conversations take away from theactual music that we're trying
(42:48):
to enjoy, Like, for instance,when Beyonce came out with the
whole country music.
There was a documentary thattalked about the first recording
of a banjo or a type of banjois the slaves in Jamaica and I
was so surprised.
But Jamaica is not going toclaim that they sad them create
country music.
(43:08):
It was just.
You know, it's the history andum, from a creative perspective,
that frees me up to not thinkof, not that I was, but I think
it frees you up to think ofmyself only in boxes of dance or
reggae and soca.
I can be more than this becausethere's country and I think
that's why we love the music theway we do and Michaela and I we
(43:31):
are creative in the way we arebecause culturally we were never
boxed in.
So you talk about hip house Igrew up in that generation're
doing.
You know they had the dancecrews, so music because that was
a love that I have, becauseafter TV sign off you only had
(43:53):
the radio.
Because I had this variety ofmusic.
I was never boxed in to thinkof things a particular way.
Again to Michaela's point wecould go into a party and
there's a praise and worshipsegment, there's the soca
segment, there's the old like,there's so much because it
(44:17):
represents how we think aboutmusic and how we communicate,
and I think that's where we canfree up ourselves creatively.
I think make Michaela loves totalk about how we like to box
artists in and artists alsodon't want to.
You know, there's a time andplace to box people in and
there's a time to put your forkdown and claim a genre, just
(44:40):
because that's how the industryworks and I think that trips up
our artists in terms of but Ilike souls and I like gospel and
I like don't do that really,you know so no.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
And that's the thing that souls because souls is not
one genre Like I would love tosay, it's just R and B, cause we
love that.
You know that Kelly price, andthere's a few songs that we love
like rock me tonight.
You know we love some of thosesongs, but that's Freddie
Jackson, I think, Um, but youalso play like a Mariah Carey
song alongside it.
You'll also play Celine Dionalongside it.
You'll play, you know, Ambrosia, who I posted last night.
(45:15):
We don't even do that.
It's about the.
For us it's all the same kindof ballad structure.
So we, you know, we neverreally got into that and I do
find those conversations alittle bit reductive.
I hear this with like, you know, like Afrobeats is taking over
dance hall.
It's like or taking, and I'mlike well, I'm happy for them.
Actually, I think that's great.
(45:35):
I think it's time for Africaand you know, Nigeria and South
Africa to have their moments.
You know a lot of thoseAfrobeats artists.
A lot of their early stuffsounded like dance hall.
They were heavily influenced.
Whiz kid you can hear it in hisearly music.
Burn a boy you hear it in hisearly music.
It sounds very close todancehall and I think they found
their own.
You know the more distinctsound.
You know um, eventually.
(45:57):
But like I love that.
They, you know, tookinspiration.
And afro beats is amazing.
I listen to afro beats probablyyou know 60 of the week, right,
so it's not, it's not a time, atime upset.
I don't know why we have to dothat.
Like for me, when I heard theChronix and WizKids song, like
this is my world in one place,Like I was so happy to hear that
(46:18):
I don't see the need to feellike we need to be upset about
it.
Also, Jamaica's like 3 millionpeople on an island and you're
talking about like a wholecontinent.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I was like like that'scrazy, right, we should all be,
I think, a little bit more.
This is just my opinion.
I'm not advocating for anybodyelse to feel this way.
Just think it's more aboutusing what you have and the
(46:43):
influence and what theinstruments, just like with food
and, you know, turning it intowhatever it is that works for
you, and some of it can bereally amazing.
I think some of the best reggaesongs are covers of a soft rock
song or a country song.
Like I can't even imagineMissing you by Sanchez not
existing.
I can't imagine it.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I love that song.
Or in the eighties, when theywere singing, you got a fast car
car that was like a whole coverof like yeah, and I love both.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
I love tracy chapman and I really love those versions
of some of those songs, likeeven like country road, take me
home, you know, like that is agreat song.
Also, bob marley's firstrecords were covers, you know,
before he found his song and hewas doing more reggae, he was
doing like scout music on first.
So that's not what this doc isabout.
So if anybody's looking forlike we did this first and like
(47:34):
in like a more divisive, that'snot gonna happen.
It's just not what I want tofocus on.
It's for me, it's like and Ihear haiti listen, I hear I see
the comments.
I hear you haiti, I hear youtrinidad, we know, know, I know
they feel this way too.
I'm like I just don't have theresources to, to, to go all over
the Caribbean to shoot, and butI know they feel, I know a lot
(47:55):
of them feel similarly to to me.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
No, I think Souls is more about the tempo, and so you
know the, the, the feeling thatyou get around the, the rock,
even yacht rock.
what they call it now pop,ballads, country, r&b, a certain
tempo of disco, you know, likeall of the the 70s souls, um,
(48:22):
movement, like it's really aboutthis tempo and I think, think
the genres themselves aren'tunique, but the way that it is
packaged in Jamaica and in theCaribbean is unique and that's a
cultural thing and I think,kind of tying it back to what we
were talking about, I think alot of the, the, the
(48:44):
mis-conversations and and um,the opposite ends really comes
from equity, heritage andmistreatment of culture, and so
neither party is wrong in theirsentiment and perception.
However, the equity has beenlost amongst all of us and I
(49:06):
think that we have to do abetter connective job of
recognizing each other in thehistory, because we've seen how
history gets erased right and sothe conversations really get
fired and passionate behind thepotential erasure of collective
(49:26):
history.
We've seen it with countrymusic and we've seen it with
country music and we've seen itwith hip hop music.
So those consorted efforts toreally say, hey, it's not just
this, it is this, and thensomeone telling you no, it's
this.
And then we're like but this isall well documented in history,
that it's not just this thing.
(49:47):
Why are you not including usand you can literally hear the
tempos, the this and that and toyour point, the entire industry
has evolved and the way that weconsume music have created you
know the evolution of it.
But again, I think theconversations really are about
(50:08):
us being included in theconversations around equity and
inclusion of the historicalreferences, and I think we don't
need to fight about it, and Ithink people fight more in the
comment section than they do inperson.
So I think, like no, noCaribbean person is really
asking about whose rice isbetter than this one on a daily
(50:28):
basis.
Like nobody, I will eat arrozcon doles.
I will eat rice and peas.
We'll eat the black rice.
I'm going to want that jalapeñorice too, but on the internet
it narrows.
It can't be like that on theinternet.
It's just the internet.
So I think we all in a party wehear Afro beats.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
We hear souls.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
We hear danza, we hear R&B, we can even do a
little of the new hip hop stuff,and that is what we I think
most people really in the entireBlack diaspora really want to
experience.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
By the way, I wish more parties played souls here.
I do.
That's not like in the.
I think in flatbush it happens,but if I go to like certain
parts that's not happening and Imiss it.
I miss it a lot.
I actually have to say I havetried to create on my phone
every night the same kind ofplaylist or same kind of stuff
(51:27):
like that for Spotify that, likeum, fame FM used to do at night
, I don't know.
Please add tags.
Okay, I will, I will, I willshare.
There's actually a few of them.
If you just type in souls mix,a few people have done them
already and they're actuallyreally really good.
There's like songs, like 80songs, and they're really good.
(51:47):
So one of the tiers of therewards for Kickstarter.
At the $50 tier you get aplaylist curated by me with,
like, I would say, maybe like 40or maybe not as many as that,
but reggae covers of differentgenres.
And then at the $100 mark,there is a Souls mixtape curated
(52:10):
just for the campaign by DJDangles from Federation Song,
and it's all the classics.
He left out a few becausethere's some songs I want to
tackle.
I mean, come on, you can't haveeverything, yeah, in the doc
itself and even some things Itry not to talk about too much.
I've talked a little bit aboutsome of those things here, but I
try not to talk about them toomuch because I want to make sure
in the dark it feels fresh andnot like oh, I heard her say all
(52:31):
of this before in her socialmedia.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
No, there is so much we did not even cover, yeah, but
even like the Marty Robbinsthing.
Speaker 3 (52:39):
I actually don't post that just because it's a thing
I really want to explore alittle bit deeper, because I see
the connections being really sostrong.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Okay, so what we need to do is make sure that, before
and after your search MartyRobbins before, like the search
relevancy of Marty Robbinsbefore and after the doc get
released, because that is goingto be the indicator.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
Yeah, that's a good idea.
My hope is that in some wayslabels are more friendly to docs
like this.
You don't have to give us thewhole song to use, but I think
it actually drums up interestmore for those artists.
I think nostalgia is a reallypowerful thing, I think
especially with millennials andGen X, and I have a theory about
(53:24):
this.
I think it's because there'snow the internet, right, but we
grew up in some ways before theinternet became the way of the
world.
So people, these kids won'tforget like what they liked.
There's like a record there oftheir Instagram or whatever, but
, like we remember a time whenwe couldn't, you know, I
couldn't even Shazam.
Like to your point aboutknowing Air supply, the artist's
(53:46):
name, like I didn't know whothey were.
When I was seven I didn't knowthe name of the band.
We didn't have shazam, right.
I discovered that they were airsupply later, right?
Um?
Speaker 2 (53:56):
so I think that the nostalgia for gen x and then
like milenius is really strongbecause we like we yearn for
jay-z from an explorationperspective, because if you
think about like shows, likestranger things, yeah, tap into
that 80s era of nostalgia likeuh, what's her name?
Something bush kate bush yeahlike her inclusion, her music
(54:20):
being included in in strangerthings, yes, really amplified
people discovering her and hermusic and her catalog and.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
Fleetwood Mac.
Yes, yeah, I think I think it'sthey rediscover, I think they
discover, but for us it's likepure nostalgia.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yes, yes, so for for for corporations it it equals
more money, so that's why theyshould include it completely so.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Um, we can't do this labrishing thing forever, but we
just want to.
Mikaela is laughing because welove music Like I want to give
you my I call it my genrebending playlist, because the
mix up what is in this playliston my phone does not make sense
to anybody else out here.
There's no reason why GregoryAbbott and Richard Mark should
(55:06):
be on the same playlist, but itworked for me and Jamaica.
Excited about you know whatcreators like you are doing to
present stories that mean somuch to us being told in a way
(55:33):
that just resonates.
You know, because it's notgonna just resonate with me,
because when dance I keep outthe street.
I'm not for them ears alone.
I hear it, all of us arehearing it, and that's that's
what radio did for us growing up.
We all heard it.
We all interacted with adifferent way.
(55:54):
I remember when I was in gradethree or grade four there was no
reason why I'm singing Karen'swhite.
I'm your super woman.
There's no, there's no reason.
But every Jamaican kid knowsthat song, right?
Every Jamaican child knows thatsong.
So that's the power of musicand that's the power of telling
(56:15):
or interaction with music, evenif it originates somewhere else.
You know the way that a cultureinteracts with it creates a
whole new story and experience,so I'm super excited about it.
Mikaela and I will drop thelinks to the crowdfund.
When does it end?
Speaker 3 (56:32):
It ends on September 19th.
We are about 55% funded rightnow.
I'm just looking right now, sothat's great, which is unusual.
Crowdfunding campaigns forindie films.
Our coach like I said, I have acoach, justin, that I'm working
(56:53):
with who's done this a milliontimes, so he's been really
helpful.
But I put my own.
You know, I have my own ideasand spins on things.
Like Mondays we do Celine MeMonday right on our social media
, right, so it's all Celine allday, right On a Tuesday we're
doing like trivia, like reggaetrivia, to see who knows which
is a cover, and stuff like that.
(57:13):
And then the rest of the weekis just fun stuff.
Like we do a Souls pick everyday.
People are welcome to givesuggestions.
We've taken many September 19th, but feel free to, you know,
share it like it.
We have some new rewards comingup this week, I think.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, that's exciting .
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Yes, and I'm right, I got to do my donation today, so
on that note, jess, you knowthis is not the last of us, but
you know again, congrats on theproject and we're super excited
for you and, of course, ofcourse, and as I love to say at
the end of every episode, walk.
Good.
(57:54):
Well, michaela, what you lovesay it's been so long.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
No, but make sure you guys go out and click the link.
Uh, support roots, supportroots.
Rock, reggae and soulsdocumentary.
Um, emphasize this.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Yes, um, and share with all your friend them,
please, and thanks, cause weneed support.
Thank you so much, jess.
We appreciate being on the onthe show so anytime this was fun
it was.
Speaker 3 (58:28):
You got to do it again yeah, I mean listen, let
me know I'm always around allright, all right.
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