Borderless FI: The Happy KiwiSaver | Ruth Henderson | 165 - Catching Up to FI: Financial Independence for Late Starters

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
I'd asked my parents forsomething as you do, and they
said, no, we cannot afford it.
And I was pretty miffed about this.
I was pretty upset.
I couldn't get that thingI wanted, and I re clearly
remember going to sit in my room.
on my bed thinking when I get older,I am not going to struggle for money.
I didn't know all the ins and outs of myparents' finances at all, but in hindsight

(00:24):
I can see that they were not that great.
And I just thought, I'm gonna work thisout and I'm gonna be wealthy one day.
I don't know how I'm gonna do it,but that's going to be my reality.
And like many late starters, itwas two steps forward, one step
back as I learned and learned.
But eventually we are drawing ever,ever closer Tantalizingly close to,

(00:45):
complete financial independence now.
I would consider myself a late starterbecause despite the epiphany at the
age of 14, I didn't know where to go,where to look for that information.
And so I sort of bumbled onthrough life as people tend to do.
And I, went off to university and Igot a student loan and, and then later

(01:05):
I met my husband Johnny, and we wereboth working full time and the natural
next step is to buy a house, et cetera.
So we kind of lived a pretty averagelife by the rule book that we'd read.
And it was when we got a mortgage when Iwas in my late twenties, when in our late
twenties, was the first real debt I'd had.
Like I did, used to have a student loan.

(01:28):
I think the key is community.
It's finding people whoare where you want to go.
And like when I was saying to Jackiebefore, if I sat down with her, I
wanna learn what made her successful.
And it's very easy to walk out yourfront gate and talk to people who
are like, oh, Trump's in charge.
The economy's this.
Everybody's a bit down on their luck.
plenty of them out there.

(01:48):
Stop talking to those people.
Find the people like you two, likemyself, who are happy, who are achieving
the goals they've set themselves.
And all of our goals are different.
And surround yourself with people whoare going to places where you want to be.
That's what I would say to people.

(02:36):
Hello and welcome backto Catching Up to FI.
I'm here with Jackie in the warm andsunny summer of the US and we're talking
today with Ruth The Happy Saver who'sdown under, not really down under,
because she's in Kiwi land in NewZealand where it's winter, it's white
outside, and it's minus five degrees.

(02:56):
I'm kind of glad I'm here, right Jackie?
Oh, certainly am.
I did not realize that New Zealandwas having winter when we were having
summer, so we learned something newevery day and that's why this series
about Borderless FI is so cool.
So we've got a really cool person today.
Ruth, the Happy Saver.
We're gonna learn a lot about New Zealand.

(03:16):
Yeah, let me introduce her becauseyou may not have heard of the Happy
Saver, but you know, FI is differentand similar all over the world, and
we're here to learn about some of thesimilarities and differences about
how FI and FIR and financial literacyand independence look in New Zealand.
Ruth is the creator of the Happy Saver, abeloved New Zealand blog and podcast that

(03:37):
brings personal finance down to earth witha background in office administration and
a passion for financial independence anda balanced life and approach to money.
Ruth transitioned from part-time workto full-time content creation, sharing
her journey towards early retirementwith honesty, humor, and heart.
She's known for her practical advice,relatable storytelling, and a deep

(03:59):
commitment to helping everydayKiwis feel confident about money.
Whether she's unpacking Kiwi Saverstrategies, answering listener
questions, or spotlightingdebt-free and Millionaire Journeys.
Ruth's content is refreshinglyjargon-free and grounded in real life.
She's built a thriving community bybeing approachable, transparent, and

(04:19):
fiercely committed to financial education.
One blog post, one podcastepisode, and email reply at a time.
So, Ruth, it's good to see you again.
Welcome to Catch Fi Key Aura.
Oh, beautifully said Kiarato both of you as well.
It is an absolute honor and delightto be on your podcast and to see your

(04:40):
beautiful smiling faces this morning.
'cause of course it is the morninghere in New Zealand and it is
into the evening where you are.
Well, the funny thing is we werejust on the same program with the
Variable Finance School with Katieand Ellen Donogan, where they did a
simulation of stock market volatility.
That was just so much fun.

(05:00):
And you're gonna be ontheir show next week.
Tell us a little bit about whathappened today and what you're
doing with them next week.
'Cause we were on their show or intheir school, so to speak as well.
You certainly were.
I love that episode as well.
So I started following Donegans, itwould be about six years ago just at
the very beginnings of what they nowcall Rebel Finance School and year

(05:22):
upon year, so six years in total.
Tuesday morning at 7:00 AM herein New Zealand, I get up and I
watch their live 10 week series.
And this morning Bill of course, we weredoing volatility training, which was a
hilarious action packed ride trying tohelp us, their audience, learn about share

(05:43):
market investing and all the ups and downsof it, and to ultimately stay the course.
So this session this morningwas particularly fun.
I was laughing out loud a lot of the ways.
so it's pretty cool that way, way downunder, at the bottom of the world here,
when it comes to personal finance,you can still tap into, they're in
the UK, you guys are in America.

(06:03):
Like, it really is a global teamthat we've managed to build up,
which I'm pretty passionate about.
Yeah, I agree.
and Jackie's going to Bali,I'm going to South Africa.
We're gonna have to do shows from there.
The fact that we have the internet in thisvirtual space to discuss the similarities
and differences of our own personalstories and financial differences with

(06:26):
regards to our systems is really a joy.
And so it's really fun tohave you on the show today.
But you know what, we wanna start,'cause people don't really know who
you are yet with something like,what is your first memory of money?
And then we'll bring 'em upto the present, up to speed
with Ruth to Happy Saver.
Probably lots of money, memories.
The clearest to me wassitting as a teenager.

(06:48):
I would've been 14 years old,living at home, got five siblings.
A couple of them had left homeby then, and I'd asked my parents
for something as you do, and theysaid, no, we cannot afford it.
And I was pretty miffed about this.
I was pretty upset.
I couldn't get that thingI wanted, and I re clearly
remember going to sit in my room.
on my bed thinking when I get older,I am not going to struggle for money.

(07:12):
I didn't know all the ins and outs of myparents' finances at all, but in hindsight
I can see that they were not that great.
And I just thought, I'm gonna work thisout and I'm gonna be wealthy one day.
I don't know how I'm gonna do it,but that's going to be my reality.
And like many late starters, itwas two steps forward, one step
back as I learned and learned.

(07:33):
But eventually we are drawing ever,ever closer Tantalizingly close to,
complete financial independence now.
And the reason I started the Happy Saver,which is nine years ago that I started
it now, was as I was discovering thingsI'd say to Johnny, my husband, oh my
gosh, I've just learned about indexfund, an ETF fund, et cetera, et cetera.

(07:55):
Why didn't we know about this?
How do we go about this?
And he says, Ruth, if you are learningabout this and clearly quite passionate
about it, he said, why don't youcreate a blog and you can share what
you are learning with other Kiwis?
So that's how it started.
And the blog's really been myevolution as I've learned about money.
That's what it remains to this day,that each time I release a new blog,

(08:17):
which is every fortnight I try to do,this is what I'm doing with my money.
These are the reasons why I'm doing it.
This is what I've learned.
Now think about what you are doingwith yours and compare it to mine.
And then you make your own choices.
And so by doing that, I get a millionemails to my inbox and people ask

(08:37):
me questions and I just answer them.
And just day by day, month by monthand year by year, the knowledge
is growing here in New Zealand.
And I'm a part of that, whichI'm pretty proud to say.
so Ruth, I'm always curious about howyou learned all of this stuff to the
point where you created a blog and youstarted helping these other people.

(08:57):
Like, what was your learning curve like?
Internet, and I was probablythe same as you guys.
Internet brought me to Mr.Money mustache to JL Collins.
And that took me to booksand tools and resources.
And then I thought I'd betterspeak to some actual humans.
So I thought I'd find myself afinancial advisor which was fascinating.

(09:21):
I do not use a financial advisor.
One thread led to another and Ijust followed every lead basically.
and I'm pretty commonsense person, so I kinda.
Could read, speak to somebody, watchsomething, and make my own sense of that.
When I did to a financial advisorwho I could see that they were

(09:42):
giving me terrible advice and thatled me to thinking about fees and
what do I need to know about fees?
And so I just cracked the lid andjust started going through every piece
of information I found, it to itsnatural conclusion and I went off on
all these directions, which ultimatelygot me on the path I'm on today.

(10:03):
So that's how I found out it allstarts with a question and I just
kept asking a heck of a lot of
questions.
Basically.
Well, you mentioned American Resources,
you didn't
Mention any Kiwi resources, whichI find fascinating, and in our last
conversation you talked about the factthat there just weren't that many.
Is that still true?
It's improving, but it'sprobably much like America.

(10:25):
So I read all the American stuff andof course your 4 0 1 Ks and et cetera.
Well, I know what you're talkingabout now, but back then I didn't.
Coming back to New Zealand, wedo have a very good government
run website called Sorted.
And so that's kind of agood base information.
we do have a couple of Kiwis whofor many years spoken independently

(10:48):
about money, but by and largeover here, the information we
hear is coming from companies.
And so there are now, there weren'twhen I started, but there are now
other blogs and podcasts, but they'repredominantly run by investment companies
or various financial businesses.
So it's still the case over here that.

(11:11):
it's difficult to find peoplewho just say it how it is, and
that's kind of what I try to do.
I'm not, paid by anybody.
I'm not kind of aligned to anybody.
So it has improved Bill, butwe still have a way to go.
Yeah.
There's not that many independentvoices out there like yours.
No, no.
you're a starter, a fire starter.

(11:31):
And I do find that very interestingbecause if you were mainly using American
resources and American Independentfinancial, influencers or educators
like us, that means you had to decipherwhen we were talking about things
like 4 0 1 Ks, you had to figure outwhat was the New Zealand equivalent.
And I guess one of the other thingsthat's, I know is always an issue

(11:54):
that we hear Americans talk aboutis like the health insurance piece.
So.
What's the landscape of thatwhere you're at in New Zealand?
Because it's very different in America.
And so that was a piece that you probablyhad to say, oh, this is very different.
Yes.
Health insurance here is nothing.
We cannot compare ourselves to you.
We're completely different.

(12:14):
worked out from all the Americanresources and some British ones that
the basics are the same globally.
You live on less than you make you stickto a budget, you have an emergency fund.
You think about retirement savings.
And then once I discoveredfinancial independence, you think
about saving a pot of money whichisn't locked away for retirement.
And so when it came to the insurancepiece, the health insurance piece, New

(12:38):
Zealand has a universal healthcare system.
So like if I walked outside here todayand fell over and broke my leg, I'd call
an ambulance, it would come and get me,it would take me to the hospital, it
would fix me up, I would come back home.
And that's that.
There might be a little bit ofoutlay, dollars here and there,
but the taxpayers will chip into keep the population healthy.
In total.

(12:59):
We do have health insurance here, but youcan absolutely live your life without it.
So Johnny and I do carrysome health insurance.
And what that does, itspeeds up the process.
So for example, if I visited mydoctor and they said, look, you really
need to go and see a specialist.
I could go into the government systemand wait for that appointment, or I could

(13:19):
go to my health insurance provider andget to see a specialist more quickly.
So I like to have a little bit ofinsurance to speed things up, but equally,
I've got a mother who's really ill.
She's lived with cancer foreight years, something like that.
And she, still alive.
She gets on just fine and herhealthcare is free of charge.

(13:40):
Yeah.
So it's quite different..
So we don't have to factor in.
To the degree that you do healthcareand the insurance that we do have is
completely independent of our employer.
I know that you guys are tied
to your
.Employers, which is, I just can't fathom that system.
So here, like many, many years ago when Istarted my corporate career, I got health
insurance with them when I left them.

(14:02):
Well, it's in my name,it just comes with me.
And then, my husband Johnny'son it, our daughter's on it
and that sort of thing as well.
So it really isn't a considerationto a great degree for us at all.
Yeah, we're gonna get into a lotmore similarities and differences,
but before we do, I wanna heara bit more about the fact that.
Would you have considered yourself a latestarter too with regards to finances or

(14:25):
because of your wake up when you were 14?
Did you get everything rightand you were well on your way?
Or did things not necessarily go accordingto plan with regards to your finances?
I would consider myself a late starterbecause despite the epiphany at the
age of 14, I didn't know where to go,where to look for that information.
And so I sort of bumbled onthrough life as people tend to do.

(14:46):
And I, went off to university and Igot a student loan and, and then later
I met my husband Johnny, and we wereboth working full time and the natural
next step is to buy a house, et cetera.
So we kind of lived a pretty averagelife by the rule book that we'd read.
And it was when we got a mortgage when Iwas in my late twenties, when in our late

(15:06):
twenties, was the first real debt I'd had.
Like I did, used to have a student loan.
But here's another fun fact.
Student loans in New Zealandare completely interest free
while you live in the country.
They are government student loans,so they're backed by the taxpayers.
So I could go to study for.
Three years for a university degree,and put that on student loans.

(15:27):
And when you finish and you get ajob, once you earn above a certain
level, they'll take 12% of yourpaycheck to pay your student loan
until eventually it's paid off.
You can pay it off quickly, more quickly.
You can pay it off in a lump sum.
The only time you pay interest onit is if you go overseas for longer
than six months, in which casethey'll put 4.9% interest on it.

(15:49):
But for by and large Kiwis if we getan education and we do get a student
loan, they stay in the country.
So interest free, they pay it off.
So I paid off my student loan, we gota mortgage, and that's when the bank
said, all right, give us a large chunkof every single paycheck that you make.
And I thought, Ooh, I just don't like thisfeeling of giving all this money away.

(16:10):
And so it's kind of like weexecuted a very slow U-turn Bill
where we became aware of otherthings we could do with our money.
And because we were both reasonably highincome for New Zealand no children, we
kinda made more money than we ever needed.
Which meant that our mortgage justnaturally got paid off faster.

(16:30):
'cause it's like, oh, I've got anotherfive grand in the bank account.
I'll pay more, I'll pay more.
And then as we got closer to theend of it, I'm like, I hate this.
I want it done.
And so we paid off our house mortgagein five years, which was pretty quick.
it was after that that of courseyour paycheck stays in your
bank account it starts to grow.
And you're like, whatam I gonna do with this?

(16:52):
And it was that.
And that was in my early thirties.
That really led me togrowing my knowledge.
'cause I went to my bank.
'cause that's where the bank, theyhave all the knowledge, right?
They handle money, theyknow, know all about money.
So I literally had an interviewwith them and I said, well,
what do I do with it now?
And they said.
We'll go and buy another house.

(17:12):
Like, we'll give you the lending,go out, buy another house, rent
the house out to somebody else.
And then the rent will pay themortgage off over the next 20 years.
buy another one, buy another one.
And I said to the banker, Isaid, I don't want another house.
I just bloom and paid mine off.
I do not want another mortgage.
I don't wanna be a landlord, et cetera.
And so they said, oh, well we dohave an alternative for you, and

(17:34):
that is to buy in managed funds.
So I started buying and investing withmy bank and there was a conversation
about fees one day that I heard onsome blog or podcast or something.
that when I said before whereI heard something and I started
digging into fees and mind blown.
So off I went to argue with mybank about what the fees were.

(17:56):
And they just would not tell me,and they didn't have to disclose
what the fees were back then.
And so it just got me curious, and thatled me to JL Collins:, a simple path
to wealth and the whole fees thing.
And then from there itwas like catching up.
I had a lot of catching up to do.
And so I would say that our proper journeydidn't begin until our mid thirties.

(18:19):
And I'm 51 now
It's interesting that the bankrecommended buy another house.
Now, there is a story with regardsto real estate investing in the stock
market in New Zealand in particular.
I remember from a conversation wehad prior to this, why would the
bank recommend you buy another houseas opposed to invest in shares?
And there's a particular NewZealand story there I think.

(18:40):
Yes.
So I mean, of course, what does a bank do?
They lend money out.
How does the bank makemoney by lending money out?
Their best interest for me to stay indebt so I can keep paying the bank.
And in New Zealand, there is aparticular love affair with property.
And the experts on this, say it stemsfrom the 1987 share market crash
that we had was leading up to that.

(19:02):
Everybody was hearing about shares.
All these companies are going up in value.
Hot market.
Hot market, get into it.
And so New Zealanders did, they piledinto the share market, but a little
bit like 2020 with no idea of what theywere doing auntie at the barbecue said.
Wow, I've heard about this topcompany, you should buy it.
And that's what they did.
And then when the share marketcrashed in 1987 New Zealand, I

(19:26):
was particularly impacted and alot of people lost a lot of money.
And it was because they'dspeculated, they'd literally
bet the farm and lost money.
And so from that, peoplethought bricks and mortar, I
can see them, I can touch them.
that's where I'm gonnainvest my money instead.
And so that.
Pushed people to a safe.

(19:47):
And I'm quoting for those airquotes, for those listening to this
on a podcast to a safe investment,safe as houses, et cetera.
And ever since then, there's justbeen this love affair property.
So that is why when I went tothe bank, they were like, well,
everybody else is doing it.
This is pretty obvious.
And why would they not mention shares?
It's like, well, they deal in debt, Theywant to sell me some debt sort of thing.

(20:08):
One last thing, at that time we didn'thave options that we have today.
And so people, I always say people do whatthey do with the information they have.
When I read JL Collins and heardabout index funds, I thought, wow,
this sounds amazing, but I betwe don't have it in New Zealand.
And so I had to go digging around tofind that specific investment here.

(20:31):
And they are here inthe form of ETF funds.
I just find it fascinating 'cause itreminds me like, maybe prior to the
housing bubble in 2008 when everybodyand their mother was buying houses
and that was the thing to do andunfortunately it did lead to the
financial crisis and all of that.
But one thing that stuck withme that you're talking about
Ruth, is are very curious.

(20:53):
So even though you didn't knoweverything, you're just learning.
And I always tell people, I'm like,just get curious about your money.
So you got really, really curious.
And even though you lived all the way inNew Zealand, it wasn't a lot of resources.
You found ways to do it and you hadto connect what the equivalent was.
Whatever you were learning in theUS from JL Collins, Mr. Money,

(21:15):
mustache, you had to find the NewZealand and going to big institutions
like banks and things like that.
Yeah, in the US those areprobably not the best places to
go, but you've figured that out.
And now I see how all those thingsthat you learn now, you're able to
share it with your listeners, withthe rest of the people in New Zealand.

(21:36):
So kudos to you for being thetrailblazer in New Zealand.
As you started to grow yourwealth, so you've got the blog and
the podcast going on, and you'restarting to grow your wealth.
So I see behind you, you've got sortof a net worth growth chart with coins.
Now I noticed that, this is a goodone to look at on YouTube, but Ruth

(21:57):
has behind her these yellow barsthat look like a bar chart, and
she's got coins in each of them.
So what does that representand what are the coins.
you're very observant, Jackie.
I'm not an artist.
That is my attempted art.
So I like many had a coin jar athome and New Zealanders travel

(22:18):
all over the world all the time.
So you always come back fromsomewhere with a bunch of coins that
you know you're never gonna spend.
You throw them in the jarand they were all from.
Interesting places, theymean something to me.
'cause I remember when I look at thecoin having gone there and I just was
having to play around one day with somepieces of wood and all my coins, and the

(22:39):
graph that you see behind me representsthe growth in our net worth over time.
So it starts very, very low at the bottom.
I'm looking behind me now with onecoin, right up to kind of present day
where our growth and journey we're onwe are year on, year on year on year,
just growing stronger and stronger.

(22:59):
And I have those pretty coins there thatget to look at, which is pretty cool.
Well, it's an excellent graph of compoundgrowth because it does start small.
It stays small for quite awhile, and then in the last few.
As you see an explosion in your net worth.
so for our listeners, visuals help.
So if you are just getting started onyour journey, late starter or whatever,

(23:20):
find some way to like track it visually.
I mean, there's a lot of things, a lotof apps and things like that that you can
do, but even if it's something physicaland creative like you did, it is so
exciting to watch your net worth grow.
Because I remember when I was workingtowards FI and early retirement, I had
a chart it was on my computer, but itwas so cool to update my net worth.

(23:43):
At the time I was doing it every month.
I don't do it every month now,but that was so motivating for me.
So there's a great idea for our listeners.
I use the app Empower.
It's not tactile or physical,but it's an easy way to do it.
You link your accounts and then I lookback recently and our journey started in
about 20 16, 17, and I scrolled back thereand I was like, wow, look what's happened.

(24:06):
I didn't really look at the timeperiod, but it's really, really changed.
And as Jackie always says, whenyou get curious, you get motivated,
you wake up you overcome all theemotional baggage that you have.
It's amazing how fast you can move.
When you play the game of saving andinvesting the way JL Collins says,

(24:28):
or in a simple path to wealth, itbecomes a rapid path to wealth as
you can see on the wall behind you.
You talk about, however, leadinga balanced life, you talk about a
balanced financial life and not killingit, working hard to get there fast.
I find that interesting.
Is that just you or is that sort ofa lifestyle thing in New Zealand?

(24:49):
I think it's a bit of both.
This is the beauty of the FI journey.
Actually.
We are not your classic FIRE FI, butthere is no rule book, which is what
I love about financial independence.
By the time we really cracked ontofinancial independence, like, oh my
gosh, why didn't we discover this sooner?
Right?
This is what we're gonna do.
It was right at a point in our life wherewe decided to have a child and it's like,

(25:13):
talk about great timing, bad timing.
I knew that I wanted to be at homewith her, so I gave up my income.
So right when we got this knowledgeand we knew that money invested
would drive us forward quite quickly.
Right at that point,we gave up one income.
However, our daughterturns 18 later this year.

(25:34):
for that entire time, we have eithernot worked at all worked part-time had
a very short stint of working full-time.
So that whole time we've been in andout of the workforce, the both of us,
but still our net worth has grown.
And as long as every singlemonth, the main, expense we

(25:54):
have is investing, then we grow.
Our income is ebbed and flowedand we just flow with it.
But as long as every single month,we are living below our means and
we are creating that gap and weinvest that gap will blow me down.
We are dangerously close to FI, and that'swhy I really like blogging about what
we are personally doing with our moneybecause it shows people that no, you don't

(26:18):
have to work a sixty hour week every week.
You can have this flexibility in yourwork, but you can't have, who is it?
Is it Paula Pan that says youcan have anything you want,
but not everything you want.
And it's like that.
And so we just adjust coursebased on how much we're working
and how much we're earning.
We are having just a beautifullife and get to travel.

(26:43):
We've got time in our day for each other,for exercise, for our daughter, for
friends, for doing what I'm doing with youtoday on a Friday morning in New Zealand.
So we just think we've foundthis beautiful balance.
There are days when I think, oh, ifonly I had have gone back to work
full-time and Johnny full-time as well.
We would be fully there by now.

(27:04):
I wouldn't give up the experienceswe've had over the last 18 years either.
So, 'cause as it stands today Ijust work on the blog when I feel
like it, I feel like it quite a lot.
So I do spend a lot of time on it.
And Johnny, my husband, hejust works two days a week.
So collectively as an income, I thinkwe make about $120,000 New Zealand a

(27:25):
year, which is probably, have to dothe math, maybe 70,000 US dollars a
year, 70, 80, 90, something like that.
it's enough.
It's more than enough.
We're still managing to invest and grow.
So it's good.
We've found a really nice mix.
And what you're telling us isenough is not a finite target.

(27:47):
Enough is not just about money,enough is about time, life and
money, and it's a moving target andyou can have enough and not be FI.
I think that's the message I'm hearing.
Hmm.
Yeah, I would a hundredpercent agree with that.
Yeah.
I think enough is a really importantconcept as well, because nobody can define
it but you, and so you found the balance,you're spending time with your child.

(28:12):
Who would wanna trade that.
Bill was mentioning, some peopleare running towards FI and I get it
if you have a job that you hate andthings like that, but it doesn't
always have to be this fast forward.
You can enjoy, thejourney, what's going on.
So what did you do before you stoppedworking or before you started the blog?
Like what was your career.

(28:33):
I've done many things 'cause I'm 51.
I've managed to pack a fewthings in and all over the shop.
So straight outta school.
I actually trained as a forklift driver.
And I drove forklifts for a year.
Then I also studied to become aveterinary assistant, a vet nurse.
So qualified to do that.
Then I went off to do my big NewZealand OE, which is your overseas

(28:55):
experience, where you off you gofor a couple of years and come back.
So I went away for a littlebit, came back and thought I
need a tertiary qualification.
So I went to university and I studiedpsychology, and midway through my
degree I was getting the studentloan and that was my first week
not liking this debt business.
So I paused for two years and I drove150 ton dump trucks in the mining

(29:20):
industry in New Zealand and in Australia.
Came back to New Zealand, paid offall my student loan and paid cash
for the remaining years of study.
So I came out with a psychologydegree and a graduate department
management that led me into workingin sales and account management
and retail development management,just out in the corporate world.

(29:42):
did that for many years.
And then day I had a break.
I just had enough of work and Iremember sitting in the carpark
of my office and I rang Johnny andit was something we talked about.
I was getting a bit over what I was doing.
I said, I just think I need to stop.
Is that okay with you?
And he said, absolutely.
So I walked inside, resigned,took six months off.
And during that time, so Johnnyand I have had lots of mini breaks.

(30:05):
We've got the money behind us,we're not gonna starve to death.
We're not being fiscally irresponsible.
So I took a break and then Ithought, what do I wanna do next?
And I'm a big fan of talking to people.
It's like, Jackie, why are youhappy doing what you're doing?
Why are you successful?
What has worked for youand what hasn't worked?
I'm more interested in what has worked andI'll go and follow you in that direction.

(30:25):
So I had a conversation with somebodywho was really successful and I
said, me, here's what I'm about.
What do you suggest I do?
And he said, well, Ruth, if youwanna make a lot of money and I'm
in sales, go and sell big things.
So I got into the housing industry,into sales of new builds and loved it.
Got really into the design of housing and.

(30:49):
people into their brand newhomes, which was amazing.
And then my daughter came along,so tools for four solid years.
It was, and also during that time,unfortunately the city we lived in,
Christchurch, in the south island inNew Zealand, had massive earthquakes
and really set the whole city back.
So we moved from there.

(31:11):
And currently I'm talking to youfrom gorgeous Central Otago in the
lower South island of New Zealand.
And so after four years ofdealing with that and being a mom.
I ended up back in housing I didthat for a bit, but then I got a
phone call one Friday afternoon.
Both of my parents very, very ill.
And so I never went back to work.

(31:32):
I had two years off dealing with that.
And then all settled down and a friendof mine, we were doing the school
pickup and she was a bit frantic aboutthings and I'm like, what's happening?
And she said, I'm trying to havea holiday, but oh, I've gotta get
all this stuff done at the office.
And I said.
Can I help?
And so I spent two weeksworking in her office.

(31:52):
It was her business.
And I never left.
And two weeks turned into sevenyears of part-time work in just
an office in my small town.
Loved it.
Absolutely loved it.
It was the lowest pay I'd ever had, butawesome team of people, lovely customers.
I live in a beautiful community.

(32:13):
It was just great until last year.
Only worked two days a week, butI would get to my two days of work
and I'd think, oh, I've got somany other things I want to do.
And work was getting in the way ofall the other things I wanted to do.
So I handed in my notice there with tears.
I was so sad to leave'cause I genuinely loved it.
But the time was right.
I had other exciting thingsI wanted to do with my life.

(32:36):
So that's kind of me in 60 secondsor however long that took me.
It's much like Jackie in a way.
It sounds like you came from humblemeans you've never made the big income,
it sounds like, in American dollars.
It's really never been over six figures.
You've had a very few securousinteresting, fascinating, sometimes
traumatic path through life.

(32:57):
And you woke up in yourthirties, you're 51 now.
You're gonna FIR, I mean, in spiteof all of this or because of all of
this, you're still gonna retire early.
Are you sending an example in New Zealandbecause does the FIR movement really
exist there, or are people still trappedin this nine to five 40 year career?

(33:18):
Down there are things movingin the direction of FIR?
Like what you're doing?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
New Zealand is pretty low key,and so the financial independence
community in New Zealand.
Is not staging meetups everywhere.
It would be pretty cool if they did,but I'd probably have to organize it
and I'm quite busy doing other things.

(33:38):
Alan and Katie Donogan last year, came toNew Zealand and they started at the top
of the country, made their way down andthey had 10 meetups along the way in heaps
of Kiwis that I know through my blog.
They went to all these meetupsand they all had a blast.
So physically, I know the communityis out there, but particularly for
me online in my inbox, have talked tothousands of people across New Zealand

(34:04):
who are following the path to FI andI've had the great honor of getting
emails from people who have said.
I've done it and they'll email me.
I got one the other day saying,Ruth, I couldn't tell anybody else
because we don't wanna be seen tobe gloating, but I've reached my FI
number or I've paid my house off,or , I've just handed in my notice.

(34:28):
So yes, New Zealand has a financialindependence community, but we're
just on the down low, a little more.
We are not quite as bolshy as Americans.
One of the things you said to mein a prior conversation too, was
you might've been FI, but you hadyour money in all the wrong places.
And we talked about recently ona show in America, what we call
the middle class trap, where ourmoney is trapped in our home.

(34:51):
It may be quote unquote, trapped in our401k or a retirement account where we
don't necessarily have access to it.
Unless for there's exceptions or rulesthat we use until we're 59 and a half.
Did you find yourself ina situation like that?
Yes.
And that what's very common inNew Zealand is all your money
gets locked up in your house.

(35:11):
And so Johnny and I own our home,but our home keeps going up in value.
Very strong property markets here.
So three ways to kind ofmanage your money here.
So owning your own home, that'sgreat, but it only costs you money.
It never pays you an income unless you'regonna fill all your spare rooms up with
people who wanna rent them off you.

(35:32):
New Zealand has a superannuation scheme,so when anybody in New Zealand reaches the
age of 65, matter your net worth, whetheryou are broke or a multimillionaire, you
all get a universal pension and it's about
per person.

(35:53):
year gross, slightly higherthan that for in some instances.
So when Johnny and I get to 65,we are each guaranteed that we
will get a fortnightly income,which totals up to about 20
something thousand dollars a year.
What we also have here in New Zealand,it's called KiwiSaver, and that is our
retirement scheme that we pay into.
So if I was to work for anemployer, I would fulfill a

(36:17):
small portion of my salary.
3% is typical, very, very lowinto my KiwiSaver scheme, and
my employer would match it.
So currently it's 3%, 3%.
Next, in the next year ortwo, it's going up to 4%.
4%. And also the government puts ina tiny amount, but honestly it's like
$260 a year, which is barely anything.

(36:39):
So we've got a KiwiSaver scheme,which is encouraging New Zealanders to
save for themselves, save themselves,so that when they get to 65, they
can get access to their Kiwi Saver.
And the plan being that the government'sgonna give you a bit of money guaranteed.
And you've also built up quite a big nestegg in your Kiwi saver, that you will
use little portions of that to top upyour weekly, fortnightly, monthly income.

(37:03):
So that's how it works here.
But of course people like me whowant to retire early, we need that
additional pot of cash invested,which we have access to at any time.
So Johnny and I, we are stilltoo heavy in real estate.
Like we've got the net worth tofully retire this afternoon, but
it's still in the wrong places.

(37:24):
So like, our house representsabout 55, 60% of our net worth.
With the rest of it being eitherin just an ETF fund, we can access
or into the Kiwi Saver, whichis locked up until we are 65.
I'm always a work in progress here.
Because our daughter leaves homenext year and we're gonna be, sadly,

(37:47):
I'm gonna cry a lot, empty nesters.
Are working up to downsizing ourhouse because it's a family home.
Our family's gonna get smaller.
She will have to leave the town we'rein 'cause it's quite a small town.
So our intention is to sell ourhouse, which we own outright, buy a
smaller house, release some equity,put that equity into our ETF fund,

(38:07):
and at that stage we should be prettygood to actually FI if we wanted to.
So we're very, very close, butwe've got some big moves to
make to get us over the line.
So I have a few questions.
I wanna make sure that I'munderstanding how the retirement works.
So when you say pension,that is the equivalent to the
US Social Security System.

(38:27):
Yes, but ours is not means tested at all.
so a portion of the taxes that youpay go towards the government pension.
Yeah.
So the super annuitant, so anybodyover the age of 65 in New Zealand who
is receiving superannuation, they arepaid from current taxpayers money.

(38:49):
So When I pay taxes on my income now,that goes towards helping those people.
So yeah, that's how that works.
And our social security isnot quite means tested yet.
The trust fund is about to runout, so we don't know what kind
of changes they're going to make.
But on the contribution side, youonly contribute to Social Security
up to a certain dollar amount.
I think it's like $170,000.

(39:10):
But once you hit that, nolonger pay into Social Security.
So our social security is equivalentwith a few minor differences equivalent
to your government pension plan.
So then you mentioned the Kiwi Saver.
So the Kiwi Saver would beequivalent to our employer sponsored
retirement plan, like a 401k
Yeah I think that would be true, yeah.

(39:31):
There's a lot of differencesthere though, Jackie.
It's really interesting because oneof them that I found fascinating
was the money goes into KiwiSaverpost-tax it's more like a Roth and it
comes out untaxed when it comes out.
Is that not correct?
That is correct.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that works like a Roth, whichwe have an option to do that.
What, what are the other differencesthat you know of bill , or maybe

(39:52):
Ruth, tell us some of the differencesin the 401k, which both of them
are an employer sponsored plan.
So the US 401k versus a Kiwi Saver.
Is there any other really big differences?
I don't know, your system insideand out, but for here with the
Kiwi Saver, it is in my name.
So , if I work for this employer,I'll put in a little part of

(40:13):
my wages and they'll match me.
Then if I leave and I go and work withanother employer, well I just take my
KiwiSaver with me and I just say tothem, oh, I'm in this fund, et cetera.
So the only thing the employer really hasto do with it is they put in their 3%.
That's about it.
Really?
That's a government requiredmatch as I understand it.

(40:33):
And it is portable from job to job.
It's also anybody that workshas access to this KiwiSaver.
Unlike in the United States, not everybodyhas access to a 401k, for example.
So you have pretty much universalaccess if you're working.
It functions like a Roth,which I found also fascinating.
, There's one otherfascinating thing about it.

(40:54):
It's voluntary.
So if you don't wanna be inKiwiSaver, you can opt out.
The government very much encourages usand doesn't push, but is saying to people,
if you think you're gonna get to 65 andbe able to survive on the superannuation
alone, gonna have another thing coming.
So they really encourage you to do it.
But it is voluntary.
But the other thing about it, when itwas first started, it was just because

(41:16):
they realized that New Zealanderswere not saving enough for retirement.
But a few years in New Zealandersstarted to see their KiwiSaver
balance build, and then they're like.
But I wanna buy a house and I havenot saved up any money myself.
But look, I've saved some in Kiwi Saver.
I want it.
And so it moved to being a scheme thatyou can drain your Kiwi Saver account,

(41:41):
your retirement account to buy yourfirst home, your first home only.
And so all the banking industryreally got on board with this.
We're like, brilliant.
Here's a deposit.
So during the KiwiSaver, whocares about their retirement
and get them into housing.
I teach my daughter about money.
She's already got a KiwiSaver account.

(42:02):
I signed her up when she was born.
And I'm saying to her, thisis for retirement, which is a
long, long way away for her.
But never drain it.
Just add to it.
You'll only ever have to add a little bit.
from every single paycheck.
Retirement's sorted for her already.
If she sticks to this plan, and Ijust have to cross my fingers that

(42:22):
in 10 years time she doesn't drainit to buy a house and then have to
start again on her retirement savings.
So you were able to start aKiwi saver for your child.
That's not just for working adults.
My first trip out of the house, Jackie,after I'd had my daughter, was to the
post office to mail away her applicationto a KiwiSaver Retirement fund.

(42:44):
Yeah.
She's been in it since birth.
that's a huge difference 'causewe aren't really able to do that.
Maybe a 5, 2, 9 college savingswould be something similar.
But that's interesting.
is there an age limit that you cantake this money out of the Kiwi
saver other than for buying a home?
So, no, it is 65, so the onlytime you get it out is to buy a

(43:05):
home or if you are under hardship.
So if you are in real financial direstraits, but you've got money in
your KiwiSaver account, there area lot of rules attached to it to
prove that you're really struggling.
But you can get it out if youare in financial dire straits.
But hard to do.
One thing I found interesting aboutthis too is that although it's sort

(43:27):
of government administered, it'smanaged by private providers that
are accredited with the government.
And I went into your thewebsite you talked about
earlier sorted, I think it is.
And I started looking at whatinvestments you have available to you.
And I was a little disappointedbecause it seemed to be.
Funds, actively managed funds there's alimited choice and they were higher costs.

(43:52):
Is that your experience with this too?
You are very onto the money there, bill.
Yeah, absolutely.
We've got a range of, I think32 KiwiSaver providers, and each
provider has created funds toappeal to all parts of the market.
And some have got crypto and somehave got property and some have
got shares and some have got anindex fund and that sort of thing.

(44:15):
So it's a real pick andmix of what's available.
So what I had to do over here waswork out well, okay, how can I invest
my KiwiSaver money into an indexfund ETF fund That aligns with what
the financial independence communityis on, about, which is investing
in just a massive global fund, suchas down here, a total world fund.

(44:38):
So they are available, thosefunds, you can get them, but
not every provider offers them.
And you have to find.
This specific provider who offersthis specific fund that you are after.
But yeah, a lot of activemanagement, a lot of high fees.
If you're looking for a KiwiSaverfund, you need to look for a fee under
0.5%, which for you guys, you'll belike, oh my gosh, 0.5, this is so high.

(45:03):
Whereas here in New Zealand, anythingbelow 0.5, you're doing okay.
But I was actually looking at a provideryesterday out of interest, and in the
personal finance space here, in investingspace, it's a lot of big companies.
There was one particular companythat kept getting mentioned and
I thought, oh, go and dig intothe back end of their website.
3.3% fees they were charging.

(45:24):
Oh my God, my head just exploded.
Oh my gosh.
know, know.
it's an interesting landscapeto sort out because I didn't
find any really low cost funds.
And then you have to look under thehood, sort of, universally available.
32 different providers all havedifferent approaches, but their
packaging mostly actively managed funds.

(45:46):
There's not a lot of passiveinvesting available that I saw in my
brief perusal through that websiteand through some of the companies.
Is that your experience?
I mean, I was shocked.
Yes.
welcome to the world.
And that's why my blog is sohandy for people, because I've
done all the research and made mydecisions, and I write about that.

(46:08):
And so I say to people,this is where I went.
This is what I discovered, and thisis why I am doing what I am doing.
And then I say, go and comparemy situation with yours.
What's standing out to you?
The fees are higher than mine.
You know, this, that, and the next thing.
Super actively managed,et cetera, et cetera.
So because that's what I found here.

(46:29):
Like I can't go out and say buy this fundwith this company because that sort of
seemed to be giving financial advice.
I can't do that.
But by sharing my experience and all ofmy evaluation as to why I'm doing what I'm
doing, people can deduce for themselveswhat might be appropriate for them.
So all that to say, there area couple of providers here that

(46:50):
offer the funds that align with thefinancial independence communities.
on things and with my sessionI'll be doing with Alan and Katie
Donogan on Rebel Finance School.
We are gonna specifically dig into,what is available here in New Zealand
in an effort to create a tool to makeit easier for every other Kiwi to find

(47:14):
the appropriate fund, whether thatbe an ETF fund outside of KiwiSaver
or something inside KiwiSaver.
That is fascinating.
So you literally are saving peoplethousands, by sharing what you did
and encouraging them to be curiousand to look at the different funds

(47:34):
and to make proactive decisionsabout what they're investing in and
understand what they're investing in.
In the US perhaps we're a littlebit further along in terms of low
cost fees because, in the US youcan get a US Total Stock Index fund
for like 0.03%, maybe even lessso it's really low, but you have.

(47:55):
Learn that, and now you're sharingit with others, so kudos there.
But I feel like thetheme is still the same.
There's a lot of high feesproducts and investments out there.
If you're in the US it's employerspecific, so every employer
will have to pick their own.
So there's no universal placeto go to look at the funds

(48:15):
there's advantages and disadvantagesbecause in many ways I came away from
it saying, this seems like a scam.
The government approving thesecompanies select few companies.
They're not administrating their ownTSP for example, and I don't know if
you have a TSP thrift savings planthat the government administers for
federal employees the military thathas some of the best funds out there,

(48:37):
and they're doing, in a way, what NewZealand is doing from a public sector
standpoint that we don't have access to.
And why don't we all have access to it?
Why isn't there an umbrella likethis where we can have access
to the best low cost funds?
But we have to get privateindustry involved because
they gotta make their cut.
And that's kind of what thegovernment is supporting there,
we used to have more superannuationschemes, which were employer based.

(49:00):
So like if you had a state sectoremployer, government employer,
they would used to have a fund.
But over the years when KiwiSavercame in and started to grow, all those
funds are getting wound down, there'svery few of them available anymore.
So now it is very muchyou pan your kiwi saver.

(49:20):
You get your superannuation at 65 andit's, and it's the me and the personal
finance side of things that adds thatdifferent flavor of adding in my own
ETF fund, which is all in my own name.
I'm doing my own thing and that isthe kind of icing on the cake of
the other things I've got going on.
You're talking about sort of apost-tax brokerage account, right?

(49:41):
Do you have low cost providersfor your brokerage accounts there?
' with the emphasis on KiwiSaver, peoplemight forget that the best access
they're gonna have to, the lowestcost funds are often gonna be since
your KiwiSaver is post-tax anyway.
Why not forego KiwiSaver tofind the things and do it
all on a brokerage account?
People would pay into KiwiSaver becauseof that employer match you are putting

(50:05):
in 3% and they are putting in 3%,which is in addition to your wages.
And then it used to be that thegovernment would pay in more each
year, but successive governments keeplowering the government contribution.
So, like more recently because I'mself-employed now, I could pay into my
KiwiSaver voluntarily if I wanted to.

(50:27):
But I've actually chosen to stop,like there's no benefit to me.
Putting any more money into my KiwiSaver because like you say, it's my after
tax income, I would put that in there.
It locks it up till 65.
I don't have an employer, so they'renot adding anything and all the
government is adding is $260 a year.
And I decided thathaving my money tied up.

(50:50):
Until I'm 65, just to getthe $260 from the government.
To me, that just doesn'tmake sense to me anymore.
So therefore, I take that sameafter tax income and I do invest
it in a accessible ETF fund.
So still after tax and NewZealand has a very, they call
it a very flat tax structure.
It's very easy to work withinand easy to understand.

(51:12):
So that's the way togo about it over here.
And a lot of the KiwiSaverproviders here will offer funds
accessible outside of KiwiSaver.
They'll have the same funds.
One is locked away andone is outside KiwiSaver.
But to your point, bill, a lotof those funds are still the
actively managed high fee funds.
And I don't want any of those.
Do you have any pre-tax optionswhere you have tax free growth?

(51:35):
We are different to you and differentto Australia and the fact we don't have
capital gains tax or anything like that.
So my house here it cost us$430,000 when we built it.
Now it's worth close to a million.
So if I sold it tomorrow, Idon't pay any tax on that gain.
So we don't have capital gains tax here inNew Zealand, which is quite the big deal.

(51:57):
And it's the same with investments.
So like, if I bought a hundred thousanddollars worth of investments and I
sold them for $200,000, I don't pay anycapital gains tax on that difference.
The only tax we pay on our investmentsare on the dividends or the distributions.
And by the very nature of a ETF fund, theypay very low distributions of like 1.8%.

(52:21):
So really, if I had a hundredthousand dollars investment and
it paid me out a $1,800 dividend,I only pay tax on that $1,800.
And so the tax rate, I get to nominatewhat my appropriate tax rate is so I
just pay my small amount of tax, whichin my case is 17.5% that $1,800 dividend.

(52:44):
So some loose some.
You have these tax advantaged accounts.
We don't have that, but we don'thave a capital gains tax, so.
so you've got your house whereyou have a huge gain on it.
Let's say if it was worth $2million, there's no limit to where.
Oh, wow.
there are or two rules there.
Like if you were a trader and you boughta house today and sold it in six months

(53:09):
and made a huge gain, in those instancesyou would be paying a capital gains tax.
that's not me.
not not what I'm doing.
And it's the same with shares.
So like if I was a share trader thatthey could see that I was buying
at breakfast time and selling atlunchtime repeatedly, then there
might be a capital gains tax to pay.
But by the nature of fin people in ourcommunity, we are buy and hold investors.

(53:34):
So we will buy and hold and then we'llreach a point where once a month, once
every six months, once a year, we'llsell off a little sliver from the top.
But, don't pay capital gainstax on that type of investing.
The tour that the Dongens did wascalled The Great Pie Tour, and there
is something called a portfolioinvestment entity in New Zealand.

(53:56):
It's a complicated structure, but canyou give us just a high level overview
of what a pie is in New Zealand?
Sure.
So in New Zealand, you pay tax on yourincome and it's based on what you earn.
And there's different tax brackets, soI couldn't tell you what they are, but
like you've got a tax rate of 17.5%.
Ooh.
Then I can't even remember what theyare, but they go as high as 33 or higher.

(54:19):
So if you're a high income earneryou would be paying 33% income tax.
A pie is capped at 28%.
So if I was a higher income earnerI used a pie investment, but my.
tax rate was 33%.
wouldn't pay that on my pie.

(54:40):
It's capped at 28%.
So I've got that 5% win.
So that's what they're for.
Someone like me, they're notthat big a benefit because
my tax rate is lower anyway.
And they are taxed at 28%.
I'm still in PI funds I do pay ahigher tax rate, but I claw that back

(55:01):
at the end of the financial year.
And like you guys, I laugh everyyear when I hear it on your podcast
that you've had a day in the yearthat you've got to file your taxes.
And we don't do that here.
We've got the inland revenue, thegovernment tax department, and when
you have an employer that linksback through to them, I have shares
that links back through to them.
So they do the math for me.

(55:22):
Most instances, you never have tofile a tax return in New zealand.
Because of this nice flat tax structure.
They've got all the information they need.
They know that throughout the year.
Oh, here we go.
Ruth is invested in this fund here.
She's paid 28% tax on the returns.
Remember, it's only that we returns.
Oh.
But her tax rate's only 17.5%.

(55:43):
Oh, okay.
Let's give her that refund andI'll either get a refund or
they'll just offset it againstsome tax I needed to pay elsewhere.
So tax in New Zealand it's not aheadache like it is for you guys.
Wow.
So you don't have tofile a tax return at all.
Yeah, we have to do it everyyear, April 15th, no matter what.
Even though a lot of the transactions, thegovernment does have those transactions,

(56:06):
but then there's deductions and taxcredits and all these complicated
things that we have with our taxes,and it's about to get more complicated.
yeah, no, we do not have any of that.
So and I have to remind myself,it's like, oh gosh, it's end
of financial year, isn't it?
Because, I run my blog as a weebusiness and there's a wee, bit.
I have to do with that.
But it's not a big deal.
Not a big deal.

(56:27):
It was interesting 'cause mydaughter came home from school.
Fascinating.
You notice the two of you talkingto your children about money?
came home from school recently and she'slike, ah, my friend's got a tax return.
So.
Without these young people even knowingit, Bing money turned up in their
bank account as a refund and theygot a letter, from the IRD saying,

(56:48):
here is a hundred dollars tax return.
And she's like, why didthey all get a tax return?
And I didn't get one.
And that's where I got theopportunity to explain to her, look,
they have overpaid tax somewhere.
The government has done the math andthey're giving it back to them again.
And it's like, much like in America,you don't want to be getting a big
tax return because it means that youhave overpaid your tax and you wanna
be paying the right amount of tax.

(57:08):
So
Found that your superannuationsystem is also interesting too
because it's residency based.
It's not based on sort of an earningsbased system like we have, and you
get your money after 65, we're ableto take it early and get it at 62.
We're also able to let it grow on aninflation adjusted basis until we're

(57:29):
70 and yours is a flat rate that growsaccording to CPI or something like that.
Right.
that's right.
Whether you are worth nothing or alot, you will get the same amount.
And from time to time, theyhave the conversation here.
Should we means test thesuperannuation payment at 65 because
some people are receiving it.
It's profit money, they don't need it.

(57:51):
But they decide that the cost ofmeans testing the entire population
would outweigh the cost of justpaying everybody, everything.
And I guess they figure that SarahSmith , is really well sorted with
millions of dollars, she'll just go andspend the superannuation money in the
economy, which will help our economy.

(58:12):
I think that might betheir thinking behind it.
Well, I find the differences betweenphilosophies, cultures, and countries
fascinating, and how governmentsoperate in different areas.
You don't really understandyour own system until you look
outside of your system andrealize how other people see it.
And the pluses and the minusesas we've talked about today.

(58:32):
We have so much in common andthe FIR movement is growing
on your end of the world.
It's a little bit younger it seems thanit is here, but thanks to you it's growing
the independent minded humble under theradar, screen millionaires next door.
You're all friends with them there'cause it's a small population, right?

(58:53):
You must know everybody.
I do know a lot of people, our populationhere is like 5.2 million people.
You are like 330 million.
So I'm not surprised that you havemore complexity over there and like we
are fortunate in the fact we are threeislands two big ones in a little one.
But we run the samerules the whole country.

(59:15):
So we've got one government tellingthe whole country these are the rules.
So we don't have all that statestuff going on that you've got.
But lift the hood of my inbox and inthere is a lot of people still keeping
it to themselves and sharing it with me.
Doing okay, doing okay workingstuff out, which is cool.
People in the financial independencecommunity are just the nicest people.

(59:40):
You'll ever meet.
They're awesome and they're allfrom different walks of life doing
all sorts of different things.
Yeah, I wish they would be louder aboutwhat they're doing and what they're
achieving so that others could seethat it's possible for them as well,
but they like to keep it a bit quiet.
Yeah.
Well, we appreciate bearingwith us and sort of educating us
because it is truly fascinatingto see how other countries do it.

(01:00:03):
But the full circle thing is thatyour FI journey and the whole
concept of financial independence.
Or retiring early is kind of the same.
You created enough of a gap in yourlife to where you could take that
extra time off to where you could walkaway when you were ready to walk away.
And even though you may not have beenfully able to retire early, you took your

(01:00:25):
breaks, you enjoyed time with your child.
You were able to do so manythings just by reaching financial
independence or getting to at leasthave FU money like Joe Collins said.
And it just creates a better life.
And the product of that what I seeas sort of one of the final I guess,
gifts that you've given so manyother people is you created enough

(01:00:48):
margin in your life to where youwere able to create the happy saver.
And you're touching not just NewZealanders, we've got a lot of US
people that are listening to you andit's truly amazing when you're able
to use the creative side of yourbrain and not feel so, to a job.
Sometimes you mightlike it, sometimes not.

(01:01:09):
But the way that you have expressed,your creativity to where it benefits
others, I applaud you and I loveto see this in the FI community.
Oh, thank you Jackie.
And that's what I love aboutfinancial independence.
It's the time I put into my blog.
The volunteer hours I put into my blogare and I just think what a luxury that,

(01:01:32):
I can do that this is time I could beworking a job earning some money per hour.
I would sit here all day long,this is what I want to do.
I wanna help people get ahead and Idunno who said it, somebody else in
this space, it's like, for me to winfinancially, you don't have to lose.
And that's the beauty of thiscommunity that if I can just share

(01:01:57):
the whole, know your net worthbudgeting, have an emergency fund,
get outta debt, blah, blah, blah.
If I can share that simple message.
'cause it's just a simple messagethat so many people haven't heard yet.
If I can keep plugging away with blogsand podcasts and talking one on one with
people, the FIRE is spreading as they say.
I can't see myself stopping anytimesoon and it's just quite the privilege

(01:02:19):
to be doing what I'm doing basically.
I mean, you are the happy saver.
Some of our late starters aren't so happy.
What you have for the new listenersthat are new to the journey
to inspire them to join us andrealize that they can do it too.
I think the key is community.
It's finding people whoare where you want to go.
And like when I was saying to Jackiebefore, if I sat down with her, I

(01:02:42):
wanna learn what made her successful.
And it's very easy to walk out yourfront gate and talk to people who
are like, oh, Trump's in charge.
The economy's this.
Everybody's a bit down on their luck.
plenty of them out there.
Stop talking to those people.
Find the people like you two, likemyself, who are happy, who are achieving

(01:03:02):
the goals they've set themselves.
And all of our goals are different.
And surround yourself with people whoare going to places where you want to be.
That's what I would say to people.
Oh,
I think that's.
Yeah, words of wisdom.
Wisdom.
Now.
Now, Ruth, where can people findyou to learn more about you and
to get all of this knowledge thatyou've been sharing with us today?

(01:03:25):
So my blog and my website iscalled the happysaver.com.
My podcast is also called The HappySaver, and if you go to my blog, I
have a newsletter every fortnightwhen I put out a new blog that I've
written, I always have an email wherejust, things I've picked up over
the last fortnight I put in there.
Like, I often link to you guys and thethings you write and that sort of thing.

(01:03:48):
It is obviously very New Zealand centric,but it is a global community as well.
So I'm always just tryingto link to useful things.
help other people in the hope thatI've linked to something that that's
that little nugget of that landswith them, that sends them off on
a journey to find more information.
So yeah, the Happy Saver,that's where you can find me.

(01:04:09):
I am a subscriber and Idisagree a little bit.
I think a lot of what you talkabout is universal and would
apply to an American audience.
Yes, there's the specific programs thatare different but the messaging and
the tactics and the things that youneed to do to get where we all wanna
go, time freedom are very similar.
So I would encourage people tosign up for your blog, listen to

(01:04:32):
your podcast, where you read thestories of your listeners on air.
And I find the stories arewhere we learn the most and
they're the most inspirational.
So the stories may be differentin New Zealand and the us but
we learn from every story.
So please check out the Happy Saver.
Ruth, thank you forbeing with us here today.

(01:04:55):
This has been fantastic.
I spent half of my day with youtoday, and I can't wait to meet you in
person on my journey to New Zealand.
One day you've both gotta get here.
Like when any Kiwi says to an American,when you come to New Zealand, look me up,
come and visit, they genuinely mean it.
So yeah, I look forward tohaving you down here and thank

(01:05:15):
you so much for the opportunity.
I love chatting to you guys.
All right, well, we'll seeyou next week on Catching Up

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Borderless FI: The Happy KiwiSaver | Ruth Henderson | 165

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Borderless FI: The Happy KiwiSaver | Ruth Henderson | 165