Learn This or Never Retire | Bill & Jackie | 154 - Catching Up to FI: Financial Independence for Late Starters

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hello and welcome to a Catching Upto FI Wednesday midweek episode.
We do a lot of feed swaps, but we findthat there's different twists on stories.
And this week we're, you know, with oursome of our favorite people, who are
the most positive people in the world?
The Don, right?
Jackie?
we love them.
All right, so what are we talkingabout in this episode, Jackie?

(00:23):
Well, the Donogan do something everysummer called the Rubble Finance School.
They do an absolutely free bill.
They are based in the UKand they open this up.
All around the world.
So there are people in thatattend these classes virtually
that are from, the us from,Australia, , Asia, all over the world.

(00:46):
So it's pretty impressive thatthey pull this many people
together, absolutely free.
And they asked us to kick itoff this year and we talked a
lot about getting a late star.
And how did they title it Bill?
It was very clever.
Yeah.
They titled it Learn This or NeverRetire A Millionaire Mindset.

(01:08):
And we.
Off the show for them because mindsetis critical and they have a lot of
late starters in their audience really.
And they wanted to make sure that peoplethought it was possible and get inspired
for the content that is more tacticalon the how to, become a millionaire.
Yeah, and once you listen to this,the live version of the classes may be

(01:30):
over, I think it's like 10 weeks, butthey record everything and you can go
to their YouTube channel and you can goback and get through all the lessons.
They get some amazing guests, not justus, but some wonderful thought leaders.
Educators, some really big namesto help them, put these classes on
so we can't brag about them enough.

(01:52):
So we wanna encourage youto go through their class.
They're all recorded,they're all on YouTube.
We will drop all the informationin the show notes, but you
are going to love this.
We've had a couple ofshows with them already.
Go back and listen totheir episodes on our show.
And you can find them at Rebel Donegans.
That's R-E-B-E-L-D-O-N-E-G-A-N-S.

(02:17):
they're all over the map.
You'll find them.
And we hope you're as excitedabout this show as we are.
Yeah, and classes in session.

(02:54):
Welcome to Rebel Finance School.
We are super excited to have you here.
Uh, if you've ever thought it'stoo late for me, like, am I
too old to be able to do this?
I've only just found out about thisand having run the tour of the UK and
the tour of the New Zealand, the GreatPie Tour, people have been saying
to us, no one taught me this stuff.

(03:17):
I wish I'd found out sooner.
And then we start to getcomments of, well, it's too
late for me, just save the kids.
And they're like, what are you telling us?
It's too late for you.
It's never too late.
And then we have this thing ofpeople thinking it's too late
and they say it's, you know.
I can't do this.

(03:37):
I found out about it in my sixties.
I found out I've been in my fifties.
Uh, we have people in the fortiessaying, it's too late for me.
I can't find out about it.
Even the other day, Katie, youhad someone in their thirties
saying they were too old.
Yes.
She thought she was behindthe curve and she was 31.
Um, which she's a springchicken, isn't she?
Which I am sure everyone on thechat is laughing at, like, she's

(03:58):
still got plenty of years, butit's quite interesting to look at.
So what I would like you to do isbefore we start, we're going to do a
test to see if it's too late for you.
I would like you to A, go to amirror, or B, hold up your mobile
phone in front of your face.
So hold up your mobile phonein front of your face and I

(04:20):
would like you to breathe on it.
Go.
If it steams up, it's not too late.
If it doesn't steam up, I think you shoulddefinitely seek medical help immediately.
But if you are still breathing,it is definitely not too late.
And we hear this universal storyof, I wish I'd known this earlier.

(04:44):
I wish I'd been taught more.
But we are where we are andwe have to build from here.
Now as we get going, wehave two very special guests
tonight, which we are super hit.
Happy to have with us.
We have Bill and Jackie fromthe podcast catching up to Fi.
Welcome to the show, bill and Jackie.

(05:07):
Well, thanks, uh, Alan and Katie,it's good to be back with you again.
We are super excited to have you here.
And didn't you just hit a milliondownloads for your podcast?
Yeah, we first started on February, 2023.
Uh, we are the only ones, as far as weknow, in the niche for late starters,
emphasis on starters, not on late.

(05:29):
Uh, it's a mindset, money, and Lifepodcast for late starters of any age.
Just like you said, there's30 year olds, there's 40 year
olds, there's 50 year olds.
I'm 58.
I'm 59 now, almost 60.
Uh, so, and, and I started at 50.
So it, it, we're here to telleverybody it's entirely possible.
And our podcast is geared towardstelling you, helping you, uh, encouraging

(05:52):
you to join us on the journey.
Yeah.
And, and we certainly felt thatway at some point, but we finally
made it over the mountain.
You have made over the mountain,which we're gonna come on to.
Let's start with Bill.
Bill.
Um.
When did your journey start?

(06:13):
Where did you find out about finances?
When did you like come to this stuffand how did you feel when you started?
By way of introduction, my professionallife is an emergency physician, and so
I learned how to take care of people'shealth emergencies, but not their
wealth emergencies until late in life.
Uh, I delayed gratificationin my twenties, didn't really

(06:34):
start earning anything.
My big boy paycheck, asI say in my thirties.
Uh, I didn't learn to partition it.
I didn't learn to savefirst and spend last.
I didn't know in America we have the 401k.
I didn't really know whatthat was or to maximize it.
And so I got caught in this funnel oflife, as I call it, where for about
20 years, it was just running on thetreadmill, it paycheck to paycheck, uh,

(06:57):
living the rich life without living awealthy life, accumulating assets, you
know, we accumulated more things andtravel, and houses and cars, all the
big rocks that I'm sure you'll talkabout in your course and not being
prudent, not focusing on our values.
And then at 50.

(07:18):
I woke up and realizednobody's gonna do this for me.
I have to save myself.
And uh, you know, our money hadbeen with, uh, a private bank.
They were supposedly doing itfor us, but they let us sell at
the bottom of the market in 2008.
And we missed out on a lot of that bullmarket from 2008 to almost now, really

(07:40):
until about 10, you know, 10, 8, 10 yearsof it where we were house poor, paying
a lot for a house and, and savings poorand losing out on that compounding.
A lot of people, you know, reachedfive through those bull market
years starting in 2008 'causethey were aggressive savers.
Well, one of the reasons we didn't is weweren't, uh, so I woke up at 50, uh, to

(08:01):
shock and awe and sadness and regret andfear a lot of the emotions that you feel.
And we'll talk aboutovercoming those today.
Thank you, bill.
It's really interesting.
A couple of thoughts.
So for the UK people, a 401k is asip or a workplace pension, so we
have like a British version of that.

(08:21):
There's also a New Zealand versionas well, which called the Kiwi Saver.
So they, those kind of things areavailable all around the world.
It's the saving for retirement,the stuff that you can't get
to until you are later in life.
Exactly.
Uh, and then we had a coupleof comments about like, there's
people on the call at a sixties,seventies, eighties, and beyond.

(08:42):
Uh, is this message for everyone,Jackie, or is it just working for, uh,
59 and a half year olds, like Bill?
No, I, I think it is for everyone becausethere is a point that you get in your life
per perhaps the seventies and eightieswhere you start thinking about legacy.
And I like to look at that as thechanges that you make and the things

(09:06):
that you do to improve your life.
It has a compounding effect.
For the younger people in your life,whether it's your kids, your grandkids,
your nieces, your nephews, or justsomeone younger in the community.
So until the day you die, like until asyou're still able to breathe on this, uh,
phone, you are in a position to changethings, even if it's only marginally.

(09:33):
And when you, you know, for theolder people that I'm around, you
know, I, I seem to have a lot ofthem that are so sharp in their mind
that I'm still learning from, and Iwould hope that they would not stop.
Sharing that and pouring intoother people and not keep it to
themselves so it's never too late.

(09:55):
If you can improve your life by thismuch, if you can improve your satisfaction
by this much or touch someone elseby this much, isn't it worth it?
I mean, I'm hoping that I willhave that little extra motivation
until the day that I die.
So it, it's, it's never too late.
Um, and I'm looking forward to thedays where even if I'm older, I

(10:17):
can't move as fast as I used to.
I don't talk as fast as I used to,that I'm still making a difference.
So yeah, it certainly does matter.
So for the 70 and 80-year-old look,you learn some new technology.
You got on Zoom, you are doingsomething that wasn't there.
Your whole life, you're learningsomething new and you're sharing some

(10:38):
of the new stuff that you're learning.
And then I'd like to add too, thatit's more about financial wellness.
People talk about financial independence,but you know, you make these steps and
you build security, you build financialpower, you build financial resilience.
You may not get to full financialindependence on your own Right.

(10:59):
Without social security or a backstop,which we can't forget about, but you'll
sleep better at night knowing that you'vegot financial reserves, your emergency
fund, and taking it through the steps to,um, you know, financial wellness, which
is just like taking care of your health.
Yeah, absolutely.
You'd be surprised how thosesmall changes make such a big

(11:21):
difference to, like you said, bill,your wellbeing, your confidence.
Just knowing and understanding thesethings has a really big impact on people's
lives, and we've seen that time and again.
So, question for Bill.
When you, you said the word wokeup when you woke up to finances.
How did that feel?
What happened?

(11:42):
Run us through those different bits.
Well.
I woke up 'cause they turned 50.
A lot of people wake up, especiallyin our community, because of
a financial or health shock.
Uh, we have a lot of women in ourgroup, about 75% women because there's
gray divorce and they're gettingdivorced in their forties or fifties.
And just like my mother, my mother wasin her fifties when she got divorced,

(12:04):
she had to work till she was 70.
But the best gift she gave uswas she would became financially
independent and has never been.
You know, reliant on ourfinances for her wellbeing.
So she did it.
And I didn't necessarily learn from that.
Unfortunately.
I had to have my own journeyand it was turning 50.
And so there was shock and aweand remorse, regret and anger.

(12:27):
I was like, why didn'tsomebody tell me this?
It was so simple.
Save for spend last maxout your retirement plan.
And if you, you know, my sister, shejust clicked, uh, in her box, which
is, she's a professor at a universityand when she started, she had a high,
high, um, risk tolerance and she justcollect aggressive risk for whatever
portfolio they allowed, and she didn'tlook at her portfolio for 20 years.

(12:50):
She woke up and realized, oh my goodness.
I'm financially independent.
Uh, so you can, you can, if youjust tell somebody something simple
as that, check that box, uh, and,and, and max out the accounts.
You don't have to look at it.
And honestly, you shouldn't lookat it because the most, the best
portfolios that when there was a studydone, the fidelity were the people.

(13:11):
The ones that had done the best werethe people that were dead and hadn't
looked at it or messed with it.
Yeah, it's quite interesting, isn'tit, the investing strategy of just
putting your money in and leaving it.
Um, so how did you get over the regret,the anger and the remorse bill and move to

(13:31):
action, taking control of your finances?
Did it take long?
Did you just think, oh,I'm just gonna do this?
Like, how, what changed for you andwhat can other people learn from that?
For me, I had a little trouble 'causeI'm a type A physician and for me
to do it, I had to kind of likebecome a financial advisor to myself.
It's not that complicated.

(13:52):
And I started it out really complicated.
You can read one, two or three books,listen to a few podcasts, go through
your course and you'll have theknowledge you need to get started.
And so I, I had to take mymoney out of the private bank.
I put it into our vanguard and I tookcontrol of it and, you know, empowered
myself to learn what, and I startedout complex with like 10 different, as

(14:16):
you'll talk about investment classes.
And I boiled that back down to.
Two or three.
It's really not complex.
Keep it simple.
And that's what I tookme a while to learn.
I was an analysis paralysis, but Ieducated myself, which is critical.
I asked for help frompeople that knew better.
I joined communities like this one,uh, that your audience is doing, uh,

(14:41):
to sort of get the support I needed andget my questions asked and answered.
Uh, I think those were someof the critical things I did.
And once I was educated, it wasa matter of clicking the button.
And it can be really hard, uh, todrop money into things and make
your first investment to havethat, you know, knowledge and
power to say, okay, I can do this.

(15:02):
Clicking the button, youjust gotta get to that point.
Once you click it, youjust keep clicking it.
You learn and, uh, you'regonna make mistakes.
I did.
You can recover from them.
Uh, it's a progressive,uh, recurrent process.
Uh, you don't have tobe right as Jackie says.
What is it, Jackie, that you say?
Perfection.
Uh, precision
is not required.
Precision is not required,

(15:24):
and perfection is the enemyof enough or good enough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love those phrases that are suchgood mantras to remind ourselves,
pushes and is not required.
Just kind of get on with it.
Don't aim for perfection.
And I just wanted to jump in and say aswell that, um, bill and Jackie might be
mentioning terms that you're not reallyfamiliar with, like 4 0 1 Ks and sips

(15:46):
and how to invest and things like this.
That's the whole purpose of thecourse that you signed up to as well.
And we're gonna go through all of that.
The purpose of today was to kind ofencourage you and help you understand
that anyone any age can get going.
So if there's terms that youdon't understand, don't worry.
Stick with it.
This is a process we're gonna takeyou through and, uh, we've got you.

(16:07):
Exactly.
Uh, and there will come a stagewhere you go, what is a sip?
And we go self invested, personal pension.
Here's how to open it.
And that stage is weak.
Eight of the course.
'cause we have to tackle, uh, debt andcompounding and investment and asset
classes and all of the, the words thatBill has used during that opening piece,
we need to break them all down andhelp you understand all those elements.

(16:30):
Um, but to
keep it simple, you asked what I did.
I do, and I didn't knowwhat a net worth was.
Uh, and the first thing that I dois figure out where do I stand?
How much debt do I have?
How many liabilities do I have?
How many assets do I have?
What really are my expenses?
Where is my money going Andwhat is, is my current savings?

(16:53):
And as you'll say, savings rate, youcalculate these few numbers and I'm sure
you'll go through that and you go, okay.
This is my starting point.
You've gotta figure outyour starting point.
And then, so that's sort of thepause because you can't just jump in.
You can't just start clickingbuttons and investing.
That's kind of almost the last step youmake because there's a whole sequence

(17:15):
of events that goes into figuringout what is your risk tolerance,
what can, what do you wanna do?
What are your goals, yourdreams, and then you figure out
what, how to work the numbers.
The math comes second, iswhat I'm trying to say.
Yeah, I No go.
Yeah.
Well, I was about to say, I think a,as a natural response, most people when

(17:37):
they wake up, they immediately want to dosomething and they might have questions
that's probably four steps down the road.
Like, oh, is this agood allocation to have?
Or, um, you know, just immediatelywanting to do something that is, um,
hitting it out of the park right away.
And so the hard part is just to, youknow, like Bill always says to pause

(18:01):
and take a moment to look at whereyou're at, because that is gonna help
you to be more efficient and morestrategic about, okay, I found my
gaps and the things that I'm not doingright, that's what I'm gonna go after.
Versus let's throw everythingon the wall and see what sticks.
Um, but it is hard andunnatural to just take a moment.
To breathe and to kind ofsay, let me see where I'm at.

(18:25):
Things may not be as bad as I think,or things may be worse than I think,
but I just need to digest all of thatso I can try to emerge with some type
of plan or ideas on what's gonna be themost effective, or the mo what, where am
I gonna get the most bang for my buck?
What I had done was stickmy head in the sand.
That's the traditional response.

(18:45):
Yeah.
To finance is, it's too complicated.
I can't do this.
Other people do this.
I don't do this for myself.
I, I'm not a DIYer.
Well, you don't have to be a DIYer,but you do have to learn the language
because finance a universal language,whether, you know, whether it is English
in the world or whatever language.
We all have to speak finance.
And that's what we're doing here.

(19:06):
Learning the words, uh, in order to, uh,make use of the language and taking your
head out of the sand can be really hard.
You have to give yourself grace.
You have to forgive yourselfbecause you can't move forward
until you release the past.
Absolutely.
I agree, and I love whatyou're talking about.
You're sort of talking abouta before shot, aren't you?

(19:27):
Whenever you have any big transformation,whether that's with your body, with your
finances, with your health, with anything,it's really cool to have that before shot.
Where is my money actually going?
How much do I actually have?
Right?
Then as you see that transformationand over the weeks, months, years
ahead, you can look back and belike, wow, look at my after shot.
I have made such a big change, and that'show, that's why, however painful it might

(19:51):
be to step on those proverbial scales.
It's such an important first stepto understand where you are now
and learning in newlanguage does not happen.
In one day.
You may be going, whatare all these words?
You are not fluent in finance yet,but by the end of the two week
course, you will be, uh, staring.
10 week course, two weeks, 10week course, that'll be lucky

(20:12):
to get away.
Two weeks.
Uh, you'll be staring at otherpeople and going, yes, I know
exactly what my sip has invested.
I know what an index fund is, andyou'll be speaking an entirely new
language, which is very exciting.
'cause then you can have reallygood conversations about where
you're going with your finances.
Now, Jackie, uh, you havean incredible complexion.

(20:33):
You look like you are 25 years old.
Um, but where did you start andhow did you go on this journey?
And you had this thing of like, whatmakes you think you are different and
you could do anything with finances.
Uh, well, thank you.
And, uh, you know, how to make alady smile, so I appreciate that.

(20:54):
Um, so for me, for my, my story,um, it's a little bit different
than, uh, Dr. Bill there.
Um, which is why we work so welltogether on catching up to five.
'cause it basically says.
No matter where you started there, Althere's always room for improvement.
And so for me, um, especially since Ihave a worldwide audience here, I started

(21:14):
out in poverty, but that's us poverty.
'cause there's plenty of countrieswhere poverty looks different.
For me, I was raised bysingle dad with six kids.
He did have a job.
We had food on the table every night.
Um, but we were on a government assistantprogram at school where we got free
lunch every day because we fell into,um, what was considered us poverty line.

(21:37):
And so that's how I started out.
So money was always short and it was,and for me, what it represented for
me was money was always the obstacle,the thing that was in the way where we
couldn't do stuff like we never went.
Camping or to summer camp.
Why?
Because we didn't have the money.
We didn't go to theme parks,we didn't go to Disney World

(21:59):
because we didn't have the money.
So money kind of became theenemy and a very negative thing.
And that's how I saw money.
So throughout most of my lifeI'm thinking, how do I make
sure I'm never in poverty again?
So my big aspirationwas to be middle class.
And so I did manage to goto college after school.

(22:21):
'cause that was to me one of the moststraight lines to making more money.
And I ended up gettingmarried right after college.
I had a daughter, so I became a mom.
And after being married about 12years, I ended up getting a divorce
and my big wake up call, like Billwas saying, oftentimes there are wake

(22:43):
up calls that can almost feel likethe pit of our lives at that moment,
but it can often be the pivot point.
Where you decided you neededto do something different.
And for me, the financialanchor started at that point.
That was the cause of me realizing Ineeded to do something with my money.

(23:04):
So both my husband and I, wemade about the same salary.
We're around the same age.
We got a similar company match to ourretirement plan, and at that point, I'm
in my mid thirties and I had $20,000 in myretirement account, and he had $120,000.
So he had a hundred thousanddollars more than I did.

(23:26):
Crazy.
And it was already a draining, exhaustingtime where you beat yourself up, you're
trying to figure things out, a lot ofstress and anxiety, and on top of that.
How on earth did this gap happenbetween what we were saving?
And it took about two years for meto finally wake up to where I was

(23:48):
ready to do something differentbecause I never wanted to feel, feel
that financially ignorant again.
So that's when, um, I asked myself, whichis a hard question to ask ourselves,
especially if you're, uh, have afamily, you've got kids, your whole
life is around that nucleus family.
So now that's different.
So now I'm asking the question,what does Jackie like to do?

(24:08):
What do I wanna do?
And I wanted to learn about investingas hard as it was, I think in my
head, I knew that that had a lotto do with this huge disparity
in my 401k and my husband's 401k.
So I joined an investmentclub and I was, uh.
Started to do a lot of thingsdifferent and it became very curious.

(24:30):
And in doing that, um, I would sayI was around 38 where I started
maxing out my retirement accounts.
In the US you have an employer sponsoredplan, then you can do something
called an individual retirement planthat has nothing to do with work.
And then in the US we have somethingcalled a health savings account.
But anywhere I could save money, I wasdoing it because I understood the value

(24:54):
of compound growth and that you can't saveyour way to wealth, you have to invest.
Just putting it in a savingsaccount was not gonna be enough.
I know you guys will learn a lotabout that throughout the course.
So I was running so hard,you guys away from poverty.
'cause when I got divorced, thatnagging thought of being back in
poverty was really starting to, youknow, come to the forefront again.

(25:18):
And I was running so hard where.
I got to the point where Ireached financial independence.
When I'm, when I'm finally figuring outhow to put all these numbers together,
uh, mainly the 25 times my expenses.
I got to that point,um, when I was about 47.
So it was about 10 years from 38 to47, 10 years after I woke up, I was, I

(25:41):
reached my financial independence number.
I wasn't to the point whereI was ready to retire because
mentally I just wasn't there.
What was I gonna do?
What was my life gonna be like?
And so I worked two more years beforeI retired, but I retired at 49 with
more than 25 times my expenses.
I had a good cushion and I felt prettygood about it, but I would've never
imagined poor girl growing up in thesouth, in the US getting to not just

(26:06):
middle class, but really by our standards.
If you have a million dollar net worth,you're at least in the top 10% in the us.
So I think whenever you start to.
Convince yourself that I can do this, it'stime for me to do something different.
You're gonna be moving wayfaster than you ever thought.
And that's what I learned.

(26:27):
And, and even after trying to,I love spreadsheets, a lot of
us do in, in the Fire movement.
But, um, you know, I had a Color Colaspreadsheet five years before I retired.
Here are my projection.
And then after I retired a coupleyears later, that's when I realized
I didn't have to be such a stickler.
I didn't have to be so precise,so precision was not required.

(26:48):
I made a lot of mistakesalong the way, but with every
mistake I learned something.
So that was kind of, you know, my journeyand, um, just so many lessons in there.
And, and Perfect is notone of the big lessons.
Well, you have to share your numbers,Jackie, 'cause you're very transparent.
And if I can toot your horn, Jackienever made over five figures in her

(27:10):
career and she retired with a doublecomma club over a million dollars.
Uh, so you, you have to understandit is entirely possible on a lower
to middle class income to do this.
I'm a high income professional that could,that's more money, more problems, really.
Uh, I'm still working.
Uh, I I've got, uh, on thisgenerally 10 to 15 year journey.

(27:34):
I've got about three more years, uh,before I reach, uh, a little bit more
than a standard FI number, uh, becauseof our problem with ex higher expenses,
uh, as a dual physician family.
But what you need to understand, asyou'll talk about in the courses,
uh, I went from a. 8% savings rate.
I was a single digit saver.

(27:55):
Uh, and I didn't start from zero, but Ididn't really know where I was starting.
And overnight, once we learned to plugthe leaks in our finances as you'll learn
to sort of, where did all my money go?
You'll track it and you realizeI don't need to do all this.
We went to.
30 to 40% savers within a year andour lifestyle really didn't change.

(28:16):
And I was like, what the heck?
Yeah.
Where was all this money going?
And yet we became empty nesters, which iskind of a superpower for late starters.
We were at our high income peakincome years, which is another
superpower for late starters.
But it was amazing how fastI got on the journey too.
And there's articles that you'llhear about from Mr. Money Mustache

(28:36):
about the shockingly simplemath behind early retirement.
The journey is the same for everybody,whether it's early retirement or on
time retirement or midlife retirement.
Uh, you, you can't.
Uh, unless you increase yoursavings rate astronomically you,
that, that's one of your levers,that's one of your superpowers.
And, but for us, it was importantto lead a balanced life.

(28:57):
We didn't wanna frugal down to a 60,70, 80% savings rates that by like some
of the early savers would do, and thefire movement because we didn't wanna
lose out on life and the experiences.
So our sweet spot was around 40%, youknow, living on one income, for example,
if you're a dual income family, uh, theseare the rules of thumb that you can use.

(29:18):
And if you can do that, you'rein that 10 to 15 year journey.
So, question for you both, uh, because acouple of people asked, and it's really
interesting, what is compounding and doescompounding work at any age or is there
a point where compounding doesn't work?

(29:39):
Well, Jackie's the c fp,she's the financial advisor,
so I'll turn that one to her.
Yeah, it says CFP CertifiedFinancial Planner.
Um, I think that's offered in othercountries as well, but, um, I got
that credential after I reachedmy financial dependence number
and retired, so it wasn't thereason why I was able to retire.
Um, so compound growth isbasically, um, the increase of

(30:00):
your money on top of your money.
So it's probably betterdone as an example.
Okay?
If you have a hundred dollars,okay, and you, it grows by
10%, now you have $110, right?
So now the 10% growth is basedon the $110 and it just, just

(30:20):
keeps going and going and going.
Now, rule of thumb that helps make thisso easy is roughly if you're invested in
the stock market, your money is growing.
Um, it's something called a rule of 72.
And at about every sevenyears, your money doubles.
And so if you've got $10,000 todayand about seven or eight years, you'll

(30:45):
have $20,000 and it just keeps growing.
It is your money on top of your money andthe beauty of it, it just naturally will
work based on what you're invested in.
So that's what compound growth is.
What was the second question?
Does it work well?
I have an example.
I have
an example.
I have an example there for you too,which makes it really easy to see,

(31:06):
you know, you can ask your audience,do you want a million dollars
today or do you want the sum of.
Starting with a penny today, doublingevery day for 30 days, which would
you want The penny that doublesfor 30 days or a million dollars?
A lot of people pick the million.
That money today, if you go, if youget a hundred percent return on a
penny every day for 30 days, uh,you're gonna end up with four to

(31:31):
five, about $5 million, and you wantto pick the penny compounding over.
Million dollars today.
So compounding is a powerful tool.
It really hits it, it hits hometowards the exponential growth.
Uh, in the later years of compounding it.
It, you may not get as much of it asa late starter, uh, because you're
in a 10 to 15 year, uh, runway,and if you're starting at 45, you,

(31:55):
you're not gonna see the compoundingthat a 25-year-old would see.
You know, there there's the other exampleof if you start saving a 20 and save, say
$500 a month for 10 years, and then theother person starts at 30 and saves $500
a month until they're 60, who's gonnahave more money at the end of the day?
Well, the person that started savingin their twenties and saved only for

(32:18):
10 years will end up with more money.
So we don't need, we don't havethat powerful tool as much, but
remember, you're gonna live.
It's 80 or 90 years old potentially.
So when you start at 45 or 50,you have that 40 year runway.
So, you know, that's why you, you nevergive up and you, you always start today

(32:39):
because you will have compounding as,as, you know, in that 10 to 20 years.
And if you're prudent with yourspending rate, uh, you'll see it grow.
And, uh, you know, I, I, I can'ttell you how important that is, but
you have to look at the long view.
I mean, Alan and Katie will talk to youabout, you know, it, it, it's the long
you, you've gotta look at the long termas an investor, not the short term.

(33:03):
Absolutely.
Right.
Because yeah, what happens.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
What happens in a yearis not gonna matter much.
And, and not even just yourself, but ifyou have kids, grandkids, or somebody
younger, like, I just found out I'mgonna be a grandmother, so as soon as
my granddaughter is born, give me hersocial security number so I can start
a 5, 2, 9, or other investment accountsfor her because I know she is going to

(33:27):
have a long time for that money to grow.
So I'm, I'm not just thinking about me,I'm thinking about how can I provide seed
money for other younger people in my life.
And I have 11 nieces and nephewswho I've done something similar for.
This is amazing.
Yeah, I love it.
'cause the best time to start forall of us was like when we were 20.

(33:48):
The second best time to start is now.
Now.
Right.
And uh, bill and Jackie are American.
You might I recognize from their accents.
No, they're
American.
I didn't know if they realized.
I thought I just, I thought I just callit and say they're talking about dollars.
But the same principles applyregardless of what currency you're in.
So if you're in the UK and you'reused to dealing with pounds.

(34:09):
Correct.
Whenever they say dollars, justimagine they're saying pounds.
It's the same thing, the sameidea of compounding works.
If we're talking about dollars versuspounds versus rupees versus Malaysian,
ring it like the same concepts apply.
So when you hear someone say a certaincurrency, don't let that put you off.
It's exactly the same in anycurrency around the world.
And I'm sure you guys have agood compound calculator that

(34:32):
you share throughout the course.
Where you can just plug in numbers.
Like, Hey, if I put in $50 a week everyweek for 40 years, how much will that be?
We really should, you know, whateveryour currency is, you're right.
Yeah.
We really should have that.
So that will be on thewebsite within not the hour.
And I, and
I do have a good one for you, and alot of the calculators, if they're

(34:53):
thinking globally, they shouldallow you to adjust the currency
in which you wanna see the results.
Yeah.
And it's the same if youfound on that was dollars.
Just imagine there's apound sign in the front.
It's the same idea.
Right.
You don't have to convertit to different currencies.
Just imagine that.
Right.
I do wanna say, uh, Jackie, Melanieleft a lovely comment for you.
She said, your story's amazing.

(35:13):
Thank you for sharing.
I'm a, I'm 52 and a locum earner.
I started getting my head around financeswhen I did Rebel Finance School last year.
It's good to hear what's possible.
So it's so wonderful that you share yourstory, Jackie, 'cause it's inspiring
people to hear all these differentways and approaches and people finding
out about finances at different ages.
Um, so thank you for all the work thatyou do to inspire people and share.

(35:37):
Yeah,
thank you.
I appreciate, and, and Bill wasmentioning, I, I didn't mention
how much I was making, but I wasconsidered a mid to lower income earner.
Um, in the US the magic number wouldbe breaking six figures, making
over a hundred thousand dollars.
Well, I never made over ahundred thousand dollars.
Um, I was making between60,000 and $90,000 a year,

(36:02):
you know, as a single mom and.
I wasn't trying to climb the corporateladder to try to make more and more money.
And of course I wantedspend time with my daughter.
So the choices that I had was that okaysince I don't wanna use the extra time to
try to, you know, make more money per se.
At that time in my life, I knew Ihad to do more with the money that

(36:27):
I had, and that's why investingbecame so important to me.
The compound growth, getting my moneyworking for me, being smart with where I
put my money, taking advantage of all thedifferent accounts that I possibly could.
So I was able to get to a milliondollars when I know that there
was plenty of people around methat made more than me that was

(36:50):
still living paycheck to paycheck.
So it really does matter what youdo with the money that you have,
which was, and.
Have you Yeah.
And, and asking in the chat, how dowe invest, how do we get started?
Like, we'll cover all that in the course.
It's just important to understand theidea of investing rather than just kind
of saving all your money in cash andhaving it in cash accounts in the bank.

(37:13):
They're saying like, well, howdo I invest and how do I sort
out my pensions and things?
And just to reassure you, wewill be covering all of that in
the Rebel Finance School course.
Sorry to interrupt.
And
those are the types of questionsthey absolutely should be asking.
I think one of the mostimportant characteristics I
had early on was curiosity.
So if you've got questions this earlyon, you are in the right place, you know,

(37:36):
you're asking the questions, and nowyou've already signed up for a course
where you're gonna get all those answers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I participated in a course lastyear and if you signed up for this in 10
sessions, you're gonna be an, you know,an expert like nobody else in the world.
It doesn't take that long.
And then you've gotta pay it forwardand teach others because you know, when,

(37:58):
when the student is ready, the teacherappears, you are all students that are
ready, and you've got these teachers.
You'll learn to be theteacher for other students.
And the education, this is what,uh, Alan and Katie you're trying to
do, will compound across the world.
That's really the ultimate goal.
Right?
Yeah.
It's really cool to be able to helppeople, uh, and to break it down and

(38:19):
give them that simple, actionablesteps, which I'm really excited to do.
Uh, Ray kind of hit the nailon the head and had five likes.
Ray says, now we're here.
The impatience is palpable.
Yeah.
Uh, question for Jackie.
Uh, what's the book on your desk, Jackie?
Hey, what a great question to ask.
Well, uh, a little after thisbook launched last year, I'm

(38:42):
the author of the book Fire forDummies, which is a very popular
line that is under the Wiley brand.
Wiley is one of the largest publishersin the world, and, um, I learned a lot
about fire financial independence, retireearly, and I'm just an educator at heart.
So when I learn something new,the very first thing I wanna
do is share it with others.

(39:04):
So I, it's more of a reference book thananything else where you can come back,
you can hit certain sections or whatever,but, um, it's been a year since it's been
out a year as of May, as of this month.
And it goes from A to Z on.
It starts with mindset like we'restarting with right now, you know,

(39:25):
knowing where you're starting.
And it goes from A to Z onreaching financial independence.
And creating the option toretire early if you want to.
So I'll, uh, drop a link to the book,but it is available, um, us, uk, Canada,
maybe a few other, um, countries.

(39:45):
But, um, that is the book that I authoredand I'm very, very, uh, proud of it
and thank you for asking about it.
Absolutely.
I mean, like I said, there aren'tthat many books you have to read and j
Collins is one the simple path to wealththat I would recommend to everybody.
I just gave Jackie's book to my nieces.
They're 18, they're launching into theworld, and, uh, I feel very strongly

(40:06):
that this book, wherever you are inthe world, will also empower you.
It's a great companion to this course.
Is it applicable just to the us,Jackie, or other countries as well?
Not just to the us.
I actually, I remember one section when Iwas talking about typical retirement age.
I did a lot of research onother countries and what is

(40:27):
the traditional retirement age.
And for most countries it's aroundthe same age, between like 62 and 67.
So I'm, and there's, as far asthe financial stuff, um, even
if the currency is different,most of the steps are the same.
You know, getting rid of debt, compoundgrowth, learning how to invest,

(40:49):
um, setting up, uh, your legacy forthe future through estate planning.
So your locale, your country,where you're located.
There are a few different nuances,but the big picture is still the same.
And I guess the one sentence, hopefullyeverybody's heard some version of
this, live on less than you earn andinvest the difference and however

(41:11):
you say that in other languages.
The concept still remains the same.
Absolutely.
The principles of good moneymanagement are the same regardless
of where you are in the world.
And you know, there'll be nuancesin the systems and how the tax
works and things like that, butthe principles are universal.
You mean even work in New Zealand?
Especially in New Zealand?
Hello?
Teachers.

(41:32):
Yeah.
Hello Ruth out there.
A friend of mine down in New Zealand.
And the other number you wanna rememberonce you calculate your monthly
expenses is multiply 'em by 25.
And that's your fi number.
You, that's, that's your goal.
That's your, you're shooting for that.
There's a few simple rules in the FI spacebecause you're gonna learn about something
called the 4% rule, where if you, ifyou pull 4% of your portfolio, uh, every

(41:57):
year, you're never gonna run outta money.
Now people are, people are, are,are fearful that I'm gonna end up
under a bridge eating dog food.
No.
Calculate your fine number after youcalculate where you are and, and take
the principles that Katie and Alan aregonna give you and apply them and then
you will mathematically reach your goal.
What?
And, and, and you know, it'san example is helpful, so I'm

(42:19):
gonna just throw this out there.
So, 25 times your annual expenses.
So if you spend 50,000 a year,you multiply that times 25.
And you get 1 million.
So it's just that simple.
And I think one thing thatdrew me to the PHI community
was the simplicity of it all.

(42:40):
Uh, what is financial independence?
Financially, it would be whenyou get to the point where
you're 25 times your E expenses.
However, broadly it's where you nolonger have to depend on a paycheck from
a job in order to live, you've createdenough of a nest egg where you can pull

(43:02):
off that nest egg to be able to payyour bills and all of your expenses.
So that was critical for me before Iretired because people will ask the
number, how do I know when I can retire?
Normally they'll say, well, the job tellsme I can retire at this time, or, social
security tells me I can retire at thistime, or society says this, this and that.

(43:24):
But you have to look at yourself and say.
At what point do I no longer haveto depend on this job for money
because I've created a nest egg?
And that is a powerful place to be.
It doesn't even meanthat you have to retire.
It just means that if you need to walkaway or if you get laid off of your job

(43:46):
or you get fired in the US right now,there's a lot of federal government
workers where it's working for thegovernment has been considered one of
the most secure jobs you can ever have.
And that's changed this year where a lotof federal government workers were let go.
They were fired.
Maybe they were given severance, maybenot that shocked a lot of people because

(44:09):
they were depending on the paycheck,because they were used to it being
such a secure thing in their life.
But things change quickly and to getto that financial independence place
to where you no longer have to dependon that job to get your paycheck, um.
It's, it's a powerful number to knowand when you reach it or how long

(44:31):
it's gonna take you to get there.
And everybody's retirement looks different'cause it personal finance is personal.
You'll hear it over andover and over again.
There's different formsof financial independence.
It, you can reach something called cofi,where if you get to a, a, a, a number
that by 65, if you just allow that tocompound, you'll be able to retire.

(44:53):
You're at Coast Fi and you couldpotentially stop saving and
putting into your retirement there.
There's, you know, lean Fi whereit's, uh, 20 times your expenses.
There's fat fi where it's30 times your expenses.
Everybody's number looks different.
For me, I may work.
1, 2, 3, 4 shifts amonth for the structure.
And that in, if you earn $40,000in a year, you just created

(45:17):
a million dollar portfolio.
Uh, so you can still work.
We're all gonna work.
It's not just about stopping.
There's the hard sides of retirement.
And then the soft sides.
We all are driven to work.
What are you gonna do afteryou reach that number?
You know, you, you don't wantto end up depressed sitting
on the couch watching Netflix.
It's not about that, but it isabout living your best life.

(45:39):
And look at Jackie.
She turned into a certified financialplanner, and she went from a corporate
job to passionate about educationacross the US and across the world.
Uh, and then she joined me on thispodcast, and we have a worldwide audience.
Uh, it it, this is something, thisis part of my retirement plan too.
I'm not gonna retire on it.
It doesn't earn the money to doso, but, uh, we cover our costs.

(46:03):
That's wonderful.
You absolutely need something to do that'sfulfilling and gets you out the house.
Uh.
In quote unquote retirement.
Uh, there's a couple of YouTubecomments I love to read out.
Uh, one from Debo says, Jackie and Billare the reason I took Rebel Finance
School seriously when I did it last year.
Seeing people who got late starts and thatand that are not 20 was very inspiring.

(46:27):
Although I agree that Jackie looks20 'cause her complexion is amazing.
She's amazing.
You told us, you told usbefore the call guys, that 64%
of your audience is over 45.
Correct.
So you guys are among your people.
Make some friends jointhe journey together.
You know, consider if you're over45, if you like joining us in the

(46:48):
catching up to five Facebook group.
We have over 17,000 people thatshare ideas, uh, and get information
from the experts out there.
Like j Collins is in the group, like BillBangin, who's the father of the 4% rule.
So we mix it up with expertsthat will answer your questions,
and it's okay to be a newbie.

(47:09):
Uh, and just so everyone knows, I'm 46, soI just about make it into our bracket now.
Um, I'm definitely not 20 and I definitelydon't have Jackie's amazing complexion.
I do want to, um, Josie is watchingon YouTube and Josie says 60 today,
and is Josie too late to start?

(47:30):
That was the question.
No,
absolutely not.
I mean, hopefully Josie has, uh,a secure job, depends on where she
starts, but you know, like we talkedabout, it can be a 10 year runway.
I'll give the example of my mom.
She was earning 50, $60,000 as anurse and she went from 55 to five
at 70 and she's now 87 and she's beenfinancially independent for 17 years.

(47:52):
So absolutely Josie, kudos toyou for waking up and being here.
Uh, you are a bright light in thisspace and you're gonna lead other
60 year olds forward with you.
And I think, yes, kudos.
I'd like to add that uh, the person thatyou will become in 10 years time will

(48:14):
think you are a spring chicken right now.
Right.
That's so true.
Whatever age you are in 10years time, you're like, oh, I
quite enjoyed being that age.
I am now.
Like things ate a little bit less.
I moved a little bit faster.
Uh, things worked a little bit, butI had a few less sleep injuries.
I dunno if anyone else hasexperienced this, but after 40 I

(48:36):
started getting sleep injuries.
Uh, I was like waking up hurting.
And I'm like, how did that happen?
Um, but the person that you will be in10 years will think you are young now.
And the other second piece of that is timeis going to pass no matter what you do.
Right.
So important.
You'd like to get on top of yourfinances or would you just like to.

(48:59):
Let time pass and you'll be 10years older in 10 years time and you
won't have done anything about it.
Well, that's why youcan't just, that's why
you can't just focus on the number.
I mean, there's peta atia that, uh,talks about health span and you have
to concomitantly with working on yournumbers and your finances, maintain or
work on your health because there canbe a big gap between you get to your

(49:22):
number, but you can't do anything thatyou plan to do if you haven't taken
care of your body, as you say, Alan.
Yes, and I definitely need to takebetter care of my body other than
eating m and s biscuits in the uk,which I've been very enjoying recently.
Uh, so I'm gonna eat less biscuitsand have more salad in the
future, so I'm bouncing around.
I'm with energy.
I did wanna addresssomething from Chrissy.

(49:44):
Chrissy said Even the low examplesof income that people have been
talking about are more than they earn.
Um, so what would you say to that, Jackie?
Is this just, what aboutpeople on low incomes?
Is this, is it possible to makeimprovements with your finances?
Yeah, it's definitely alwayspossible to make improvements.

(50:05):
Now, depending on the level of income,you know, whether or not those things
will lead to financial independence,it, it does take a certain, you know,
basic income to be able to get there.
But improvements are always possible andsome of the audiences I enjoy talking
to the most, I. Are people that arein poverty, that are low income, that

(50:31):
have really never had the discussionabout what it looks like to climb
out of poverty into middle class andstarting to learn this stuff because
they're just as smart as anyone else.
And I get the question all thetime, well, I am paying my bills
and I could barely make ends meet.
There's no way I can save anything.

(50:53):
And the advice that I give to thosepeople, which is something I was doing
and didn't even realize it, but atleast start to build the savings muscle.
So if you've got $2 a month, $5 a month,$10 a month, don't worry about the amount.
It's the habit and creatingthat muscle, because as you

(51:14):
make more, you will spend more.
And if you're at a low income,is that a permanent state?
Nine times outta 10.
The answer is no.
It's not a permanent state.
I am going back to school.
I'm learning this skill.
I'm getting another job.
I have a side hustle.
So the idea of, and thank goodnessyou know, me growing up in poverty,

(51:38):
that I at least understood thatit didn't have to be like that.
Now, I never knew I'd make the movementthat I made, but knowing that, hey, I'm
not always gonna be in this position.
So there's that big important question,okay, what are you doing to change it?
And a good answer could be,I'm learning more about money.

(52:00):
I'm taking rubble finance school,the classes, I'm listening to this
podcast of really smart people.
I'm joining this club,I'm reading this book.
Those are things thatwill help move the needle.
'cause I believe, youknow, knowledge is power.
What you learn is a partof how you move forward.

(52:21):
It doesn't have to always meanyou need a ton of seed money.
Sometimes the seedmoney is your education.
Yeah.
Tell your story about the $2 bill jacket.
You've got a bunch of $2 bills back.
Yeah.
And tell people there's.
Go ahead.
Tell him that story.
Yeah, so,
so yeah.
So when I mentioned $2 bills, so I,I grew up in poverty, but when I was,
um, 16, I got my first job out of,uh, um, while I was in high school.

(52:44):
And I felt very independent at this point'cause I had my own money coming in.
But I, I go to the bankand I cashed my check.
At the time we had paperchecks, you had to cash it.
And the teller gave me back a$2 bill, and I got that $2 bill
and I thought it was special.
So I held onto that $2 bill and everytime after that, I would cash my check.
I would ask if they have a $2bill, and I would hold onto it.

(53:07):
So that was sort of my little stash.
And I continued to do this.
I was building this habit, right?
I continued to do it all through college.
I was a poor college kid, butI was still saving those $2
bills when I became an adult.
I still saved them.
And when my daughter, I think she waslike nine or 10 years old, she's like,
mom, how many $2 bills do you have?
And I said, I don't know, let's count 'em.

(53:28):
And out of all these years where I'mcollecting all these $2 bills, as I
made more, I was getting more $2 bills.
By the time I counted them, I had$1,802 bills, which was $3,600.
And I realized that even when Ithought I had nothing to save, poor
kid in high school, poor collegekid, I was saving those $2 bills.

(53:52):
And it did help me become more comfortableand help saving become more natural and
automatic like I would've never imagined.
So now when I do financialliteracy workshops, financial
education trainings and thingslike that, I give away $2 bills.
Especially like if you're a highschool or a college student.
If I ask a gr ask a question and yougot a great answer, you get a $2 bill.

(54:15):
If you ask a good question,you get a $2 bill.
So this happens to be one that I, um,ordered from the Department of Treasury
in the US and it was, it is a sheet of 32.
$2 bills and, and uncut sheet.
So I framed it and that remindsme that no matter how small it is,
always save something if only to buildthe muscle, to get more comfortable

(54:39):
with it and to create the habit.
So that's the $2 bill story.
Always start no matter where you are.
I think that is a fantastic lesson.
Uh, couple of thingsfor me to add to this.
Number one, uh, in America theretends to be slightly higher salaries.
Uh, and that's a lot of talk aboutthat, but does that mean it doesn't

(55:02):
work in the uk The answer is.
Definitely, no, itdefinitely works in the uk.
There is an entire financialindependence movement in the uk.
We are part of it.
We've used these things, uh, and itcreated a massive impact in our lives,
enabling us to get on top of our finances.
So this works in the uk

(55:23):
and to build on that as well,financial independence is.
Retirement is great, but it'snot even necessarily about that.
It's about getting on top of your money.
It's about making progress.
It's about paying down debt.
It's about just being in a better positionthan you were yesterday, than you were
a week ago, than you were a year ago.
It's just about making thosesmall, incremental improvements and

(55:45):
you'll be amazed where you end up.
So the goal does not haveto be quitting work in five
years or 10 years or 15 years.
It could just be, look, I really wannabe stable and understand where my money's
going, and know that I'm saving slowlyfor retirement over the decades or over
the next five years, whatever it is.
So it doesn't have to be thisbig grand goal of getting to

(56:06):
full financial independence.
The second bit I'd love to add is oneof the concepts Katie and I talk about
all the time is creating a gap betweenyour income and your expenditure.
And it's all about the size of the gap.
And you can do that in two ways.
Number one is reducing your expenditure,spending less, you know, canceling

(56:30):
Netflix, uh, buying one Greg'sless each week, whatever it is.
Uh, or increasing your income.
Spending less has a flaw.
There is a certain amount whereyou go, I can't spend anywhere less
because I need rice and beans to eat.
I need sleep somewhere.
Like there are certaincosts you can't get rid of.

(56:53):
Uh, and we're gonna lookat how do you spend less.
But there is a flaw to that.
And the other side isincreasing your income.
And the fascinating bit about increasingyour income is there is no ceiling.
To how much you can earn.
Now, lots of people will saylike, I earn what I earn.

(57:14):
That's it.
I can't improve my situation.
But there are so many people thathave, and we, Katie and I have been
doing the tour of the UK recently.
We've had 29 meetups in 60 days.
We've met nearly 3000 of you aroundthe country, which has been phenomenal.
And one lady came up to me soexcited when we first met her, and

(57:38):
she's like, Alan, Alan, it worked.
I'm like, what worked?
What did you do?
And she said, I did it.
You know, when you are earning moreworkshop, which we are gonna share with
you, it's 10 ways to earn more money.
It's on YouTube, you can watch it now.
She said, you know, yousaid ask for a right raise.
I did it and it worked.

(58:00):
And then I waited sixmonths and I did it again.
It worked and I've got two pay risesthis year and I've increased my
income and she was just blown away.
And I just wanted to say, if you don'tthink you can reduce your expenditure
anymore, let's work together to figure outhow you can increase your income as well.

(58:21):
'cause you've got plenty of ways toget ahead with this stuff, and that's
what we really want to do with you.
You gotta be, you gotta becareful with lifestyle creep.
That's where I got lost.
Uh, and I would necessarily, when I, myincome went up, I would spend it, you
know, part of the thing there is to putit aside, you could maybe spend 10 or
20% more on raising your lifestyle, buta lot of it, or most of it should go

(58:42):
towards, you know, raising your wealth.
Some people are saying, butI work for the government.
Uh, there's no chance ofasking for a pay rise.
Uh, that.
Yeah, that may be true.
You know, there, there's all theselittle nuances and I, I can, uh, say

(59:03):
that the job that I was working, Iwas not good at asking for raises.
I would get like two to 3%like cost of living raises.
And I was not good at negotiating mysalary when I was close to leaving.
Um, I got better at it,but it was too late.
So, work with what you have, you know,if you've got the good, stable job, you

(59:23):
know, at the government and they, there'sno chance of an increase because of the
system, then work outside of the system.
Is there, is side hustle?
Is it, like, for me, while I was stillworking my job, I decided I, I was
interested in financial education,so I started doing workshops.
You know, I wrote a book.
I just started doing things thatI loved because work was less

(59:44):
stress and I felt like therewas not a lot of movement there.
And so there will alwaysbe little nuances.
So that's when.
Your curiosity and creativitywill come into play.
Okay, I can't move this needle,but what other needles can I move?
And I remember feeling that alot when I was listening to a

(01:00:05):
lot of the early five people.
A lot of what they were saying didn'tapply to me because I have a diff,
I had a different family makeup.
You know, I was a divorcedsingle mom that came for poverty.
And the people that were talkingabout five were highly paid
engineers that were, you know, hadno kids, too high income earners.

(01:00:26):
And so there's certain thingsI couldn't do just like them.
So I had to start figuring outhow do I make the adjustments
for the way my life is right now?
I love that Jackie, I love the way thatyou're focused on what can I do, what
can I learn from these people ratherthan why it wouldn't work for you.
You know, I'm not a high earner.
I don't have a partner thatI've have double income from.

(01:00:49):
Mm-hmm.
And all these things.
And I think often it's, so, it'ssort of natural human nature
to focus on those things, thethings that might be stopping us.
And I think that's a real lessonfor all of us that you've done
us to focus on, okay, what canI do and what tools do I have?
What resources do I have?
Yes.
And, and that's kind of hard to do.
It is really hard when all themessaging you're saying is negotiate

(01:01:11):
your salary, do this, do that.
Um, it almost gets exhaustingand you feel a little beat down.
Like, I can't do that.
So once you kind of step back.
Yeah,
Katie and Alan are here to inspire you.
They talk about, and they've been onour podcast a couple times, they talk
about living an extraordinary life.
And this is what it's really about.
Uh, money is a tool.
Uh, and, and you'll learnhow to use that tool.

(01:01:33):
You'll learn how to save that tool.
But don't forget to live an extraordinarylife, and I don't know any more
positive people in this world, andI always get charged up when I'm in
the same room with Alan and Katie.
You will get so charged up.
You are gonna make those changes.
You will overcome thoseblocks, those mental blocks.
You will, who's your worst enemy yourself.

(01:01:54):
And you're gonna learn how to beatyourself and get on this journey.
Uh, we don't recommendactually beating yourself.
I think, Phil,
we're not talking about that.
And actually on Sunday, the 1stof June, we are doing a session
all about these things that youfeel might be holding you back.

(01:02:15):
You know, I'm on a low income,I can't increase my earnings.
Um, I'm single, my partner's not on board.
All these things that we feel likeare holding us back, we're gonna go
through those systematically one byone and talk about whether those,
how to kind of overcome those thingsand how to move forward and how to

(01:02:35):
kind of shift your thinking to thinkabout how it might be possible.
Exactly.
Changing focus slightly.
We had a question from the audience.
Uh, is Jackie still singlehashtag asking for a friend?
That's so funny.
Well, look, I'll say, uh, send me apicture afterwards and we'll talk.

(01:02:57):
Oh.
Where should they send the pictures?
Jackie?
Get it through Katie and, uh, and Alan.
Jackie is on the market, ifthat's what you're asking.
I know for a fact.
She's on the market.
Oh, he look, he, he thinks because he ismy co-host that I tell him everything,
but I don't tell you everything, bill.
Oh,
Wilson.

(01:03:17):
There's a
reason why we haven't talked for a week.
Oh,
oh, there you go.
Half the press.
Um, so what I'd love to know fromboth of you, bill and Jackie, like
why we talk about like, now is a greattime to start, but why is it actually an

(01:03:39):
advantage to be later on in the journey?
Like, is it actually in people's advantageif they're starting fifties, sixties,
seventies, or where they're starting?
Or like, should we just give up?
No, I, I firmly believethat it's an advantage.
Um, you know, you, you, you've livedlife, you've made a lot of mistakes.
You've learned a lot.
And you will, as Jackie said, once youget started, you'll be amazed at how fast

(01:04:04):
you go because of your life experience.
Uh, and you've had experiences.
Uh, you know, we, with my kids, yeah,the money may have gone out the window,
but it wasn't for no good reason.
I mean, we traveled, wehad experiences with them.
A lot of memories.
You know, we, we, wedidn't eat rice and beans.
Uh, and, and our kids, weenjoyed travel with them.
We enjoyed, uh, travel, soccer.

(01:04:26):
Uh, we, you know, just, you, youcan't forget that along the way.
So, I mean, you, youhave had a lot of life.
You are now able to frugal down.
We downsized, for example.
That's a big lever.
We had the big Dr. House andwe went to a smaller house.
We paid cash for lower expensive cars.
We, we took care of the big rocks,as you'll hear from Katie and Alan.

(01:04:48):
And those big decisionsreally escalated everything.
It was like a saving snowball.
You'll talk about the debt snowball andhow to pay it off, but there's a, and
then you turn that into a saving snowball.
Uh, and, you know, being an emptynester made a big difference for us too.
Uh, there are lots of superpowers.
That's fantastic.

(01:05:08):
So what we would love is everyonepleased to put in the chat, why now
is the best time to start for you.
So if you're watching on YouTube live,if you're watching here in Zoom, why
is now the best time to start for you?
We want to know why you think that.
Uh, and then I'm gonna ask.

(01:05:29):
Jackie and Bill for their closing remarks.
Um, and if you're watching on catchup, please put in the comments,
why is now the best time for you tostart to get on top of your money?
And I love these commentsbecause it's never too late.
Yeah.
I love to see 'em rolling.
The only time to start, uh, because,so I can retire in 10 years.

(01:05:50):
I love that.
If I don't do it now, then when would I,
I want back my time.
It's never too late.
No.
Now I'm alive and healthy.
I love that.
Yes.
If you are breathing,it's, you can do this.
What else have we got?
I didn't do it yesterday,so now is the best time.
So I can retire in 10 years.
Why not?
I love these.

(01:06:11):
If not now, then when I'm feelingready, I can see it's possible.
I've put it off for too long.
Now is the time
I can leave my kids the legacy.
Look at, look at the comments.
Look at the comments.
Pour in because you know,the, the money is one thing.
But the best part about learningthe money for me was the community,
uh, was jumping into the people.
I've met Alan and Katie in person.

(01:06:32):
I've experienced that in Person Energy.
They're doing these meetups.
You can create your owngroups where you are.
You can join Facebook groups.
Uh, the journey is not.
A lone wolf or a solo journey.
Now that you're on this, you're gonna meetso many cool people and that, you know,
that compounded exponentially for me.
Heck, about 80% of my friendsare in this community that I see

(01:06:55):
occasionally at meetups, but thatI live with online all the time.
So take advantage of that.
I would say in closing, you know,get your money right, but enjoy
the people you learn along the way.
Yeah.
And remember, a group is two or more.
You don't need 20 people to show up.
Every week me and Bill have a party.

(01:07:15):
When we record our podcast, there's twopeople and a guest, and we have a party.
So don't think that you have todraw all these people to you.
Sometimes it's just one or twopeople that will make your group,
call it accountability partner,whatever you wanna call it.
But we've got hundreds of people here.
Today that will continue going throughthe sessions together, going through

(01:07:38):
the classes, and, and that's your group.
So, um, I, I guess my closingremarks would be, uh, very simple.
Um, it's never too late to start, and
once you start, keepgoing, like, don't give up.

(01:07:59):
Even if the progress you made wasthat you read a blog post or that
you listened to a podcast and youfinally understood what compound
growth really is, that's progress.
So just keep it moving, keep it moving.
Don't give up.
Yeah, you can reach what's called,what we call the boring middle.
Once what you get all this knowledge,you come out of it all fired up, you

(01:08:20):
get everything set up and you're like,well, why isn't it happening faster?
Well, it's a math problem and it's notgonna happen maybe as fast as you want.
There's a great song out there,I think called The Boring Middle.
And if you haven't heard theRevolutionaries sing, uh, you know Alan
and Katie's album, you've got to go toSpotify and what's the name of the album?
They Can Search to Get Inspired

(01:08:41):
Money Revolution by the revolutionaries.
I'll put it in the chat.
Uh, so we have a whole album for that.
Um, people are saying we'd like,would love to meet up with people.
Are there London groupsor, or is Rebel around?
Is there a financial independence group?
There are many groups.
Bill and Jackie have afantastic Facebook group.

(01:09:04):
There is the Rebel Finance SchoolFacebook group where you'll
find a huge number of people.
Katie and I have been doing a tour aroundthe UK and we have a few dates left.
I think we're coming to Belfast,Dublin, Brighton, west London.
Oddly edge tomorrow night ifyou happen to be near Manchester
or in a few other places.

(01:09:24):
So if you want to hang out.
But in general, what we're looking to dois stop money from being a taboo subject
and help us to actually talk about it andwork together improving on our finances.
'cause it is never too late to makean improvement on your finances.
Take a next step to insorting out your finances.

(01:09:46):
No, and I'm so excited thatyou've all come along to this.
Alan, one other quick thing,a great resource is choose fi.
They have a search tool whereyou can search for communities
all around the world.
Um, so I put that in the chat, butit's just choose fi slash community.
And it's not just theUS all around the world.
So there is someonelikely meeting in person.

(01:10:09):
It doesn't have to be in person.
You could do it on Zoom and likeBill said, we have a Facebook group,
the Donovans have a Facebook group.
There's, there's a lot of them out there.
And if you place yourself aroundother smart people, the hope is
that they are plenty of peoplethat are smarter than you.
And that's how you learn and grow.
If you're the smartest person in the room,then you need to find a different room.

(01:10:31):
I love that.
I absolutely love that.
Uh, so this has been like the firstsession of the Rebel Finance School.
It's like the preparing for itand we wanted to tackle that.
It's too late for me and reallyget us fired up and getting going.
Uh, we have a session on June the first,which is at 8:00 PM UK time, which is

(01:10:53):
tackling all of the biggest barriersto sorting out your finance and then
the Rebel Finance School session one.
Starts on the 2nd of June, Monday night,because Monday night is finance night.
I love Mondays, Monday, Mondays.
And we're so excited to have you.
And if you haven't signed up for thecourse, you'll find the link to sign

(01:11:14):
up in the description for YouTube.
We are really pumped for the course.
It's gonna be so much fun,
and all you need to do is show up, do thehomework, and work through the process,
and we will figure this out together.
So please show your appreciation forBill and Jackie from catching up to Fi.
Thank you so much for coming along.

(01:11:35):
There's some silent clapping in the video,there's some YouTube comments flooding in,
like we have loved having you here and welove your energy and thank you so much for
being this huge part of what we are doing.
It was so nice to have you here.
Well, it's our pleasure, uh, to be hereand I would encourage in closing everybody
that's already in the group to invite10 people to come and exponentially

(01:11:59):
increase the number of people thatget the benefit from this class.
Yeah, ditto on that.
And it was great hangingout with you guys.
You know, we love you guys and Ialways feel so much better when
I'm in the audience, a, a globalaudience, and I hear all the accent.
So this was so great.
Great way.
Uh, and, uh, we gotta say, bill, todayis Memorial Day in the US and this

(01:12:20):
is where we honor our troops thathave gave the ultimate sacrifice.
So, uh, thank you and, uh, appreciationfor all of our, uh, veterans
and all of our service members.
I love that.
What a great message.
Uh, thank you to everyonefor coming on YouTube.
You are amazing.
We love you YouTubers.

(01:12:40):
If you could hit subscribe and like,we would love that and then you will
get notified about every upcomingcourse session and the like, just
makes Katie and I feel better.
So, you know, if you want todo that, that would be lovely.
Uh, if not, it
helps people to find the channelas well and to reach more people,
which is what we are all about.
Exactly.
So YouTubers goodnight.

(01:13:01):
Thank you for coming.
You are wonderful.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Learn This or Never Retire | Bill & Jackie | 154