June 22, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode we are joined by Cary Carbonaro, an award-winning author, and Certified Financial Planner™ with over 25 years of experience. Her specialty is empowering women to discover their unique path to financial independence. One thing we love the most about Cary is how radically transparent she is with her clients. Just call her the "Queen of Transparency" because she shares her tax return, investment portfolio and other parts of her financial life with them. In our conversation with her we discuss:
- The Great Wealth Transfer that she talks about in her latest book, 'Women and Wealth.'
- The unique needs of women and the psychology driving their financial decisions.
- The played out “widows and divorcees” stereotypes of women.
- Her analogy of comparing different shoes to asset classes.
- What women really want from financial professionals (hint: it's not just beating the market).
📩 Sign up for our newsletter NEW!
🌐 Visit Catching Up to FI website
☕ Like what you hear on Catching Up to FI? Support the show at "Buy Me a Coffee"
🎙️We love hearing from you! Record a Voice Message with your feedback or question Record a Voice Message with your feedback or question
===DEALS & DISCOUNTS FROM OUR TRUSTED PARTNERS===
🎓 Student Loan Planner: Get a custom student loan plan from our CFP®, CFA and CSLP® professionals. They charge a one-time fee for their thorough review. Our listeners receive $100 off a 1:1 consult using the link below. Flat fee is normally $595, but after your $100 off ‘Catching Up to FI’ discount, it's $495. 👉🏼 Be sure to use this link: studentloanplanner.com/catchingup
📈 Boldin (formerly NewRetirement): Retirement planning software that's like having a financial advisor at your fingertips. You can get started with the free version or choose the premium option (PlannerPlus) and get a 14-day free trial. 👉🏼 Be sure to use this link to get started: Go.boldin.com/catchingup
Personal Finance Club: Use code CUTOFI to get $30 OFF any course or PFC investing course only
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
he was also very transparent as well.
I knew what he made, I knewwhat his investments were.
I knew what his net worth was like.
I knew all of that.
And, again, that's why I'm so transparent.
I don't feel like there's a need to bequiet about these kinds of things, I
think they're really important to sharewith your family and your children.
(00:23):
And also even if you are not sharingor teaching, they're learning anyway.
So they're learning by osmosis, either thepositive or negative traits around money.
Everybody has a money storyor unconscious money mind of
like how you react to things.
if somebody's coming to you and they'reliterally laying their cards on the
(00:46):
table and showing you everything.
I could not feel comfortable toturn around and not show mine.
And also, they need to know they'reworking with somebody who's made
it, who's already a success, whocan retire anytime she wants.
So the first thing I dois show them my portfolio.
This is what I have, this is what I make.
And guess what?
(01:07):
I make more money from my portfoliothan I do from my day job.
And guess what?
When that happens, you made it.
You are beyond the success and obviouslythat's not everybody's life goal,
but that is certainly an incrediblegoal to have if you're making more
money from your passive job thanyou do from your active job, right?
(01:27):
And so I show them my portfolio,
I compared asset classes to shoes.
And I went through every single assetclass and compared it to a pair of
shoes in your closet and why youwould wear it, and why you would take
it out and why you would need it.
And I got so many women reachingout to me, even strangers that said,
(01:49):
I never understood this before.
Why didn't anybody everexplain it to me this way?
And I said, it's just a different analogy.
Our industry is very male, so it's a lotof sports analogies, a lot of beating
the S&P 500, which really does notresonate with women in my entire career.
I have never had a woman askme, can we beat the S&P 500?
(02:12):
Like, it never happens.
(02:45):
Hello and welcome backto Catching Up to Fi.
I'm Bill Yount with Jackie CummingsKoski, and today we're talking
again about women's empowermentand financial on the services side.
And on the client side, we have afantastic guest who was introduced
to us by Shana Game of theEveryone's Talking Money podcast.
Jackie, you're gonna introduceour guest for us today?
I sure am and I amthrilled to have her today.
(03:07):
So our guest today is Cary Carbonaro, andshe's an award-winning certified financial
planner with over 25 years of experience.
She's one of the few women that's beenaround that long, but her passion is
empowering women to discover their uniquepath to financial freedom, something
we talk about on the show all the time.
So, Cary is the Managing Wealth Advisorand Women and Wealth ambassador at
(03:32):
Ashton Thomas, where she leads amultimillion dollar financial planning
practice focused on empowering women.
One thing I love the most about Cary ishow transparent she is with her clients.
So she shares her tax return,investment portfolio and other
financial information with them.
And it's like, wow, I have neverfound another CFE or financial
(03:56):
planner that is willing to do this.
So we're gonna get into that alittle bit, but she's just blown
me away after hearing that.
But as a respected industry voice,she's been named Investopedia's top 100
financial advisors six times, not 1,2, 3, or four, or five, but six times.
And she is the first female memberof the 2024 NASDAQ Advisor Council.
(04:19):
Cary is the bestselling author of theMoney Queen's Guide and just released
her newest book, Women and Wealth,which we will definitely get into.
So, Cary not only empowers adult women,but she also shares her knowledge with
young girls like she did at a recentGirl Scout conference to make sure they
become smart cookies with their finances.
(04:39):
Cary, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to behere with you guys today.
Well, it's awesome because 75% of ouraudience, and men may feel a little dissed
here, but 75% of our audience are women.
And they're women starting overwho've succumbed to medical
catastrophe, financial catastrophe,divorce, and they're starting over.
(05:01):
They're late starters andthey want to be empowered.
And here we have a voice thathas grown up in the financial
services industry in Cary.
And she has seen what the evolution of thesystem, as well as the evolution of the
client and the woman is becoming a primaryclient of the financial services industry.
And we're finally now speaking to them.
(05:21):
Cary, take us back a little bit for amoment here to your origins, how did
you become such a whiz with money?
So I love telling this story.
I am the oldest of my siblings andI bonded over money with my dad.
He worked for JP Morgan Chase.
(05:42):
He was a Senior VicePresident at JP Morgan Chase.
And I grew up learning financial literacy,like kids go to sports games and we did
all these amazing things around money.
I thought it was something thateverybody learned growing up.
I did not know that.
It was not something thatpeople learned or didn't learn.
(06:04):
And I remember even with my dad inthe seventies, when I was very little,
he would take me to work before therewas a take your daughter to work day.
So I would go to the bank with him.
I remember even when I was five yearsold, I won a contest for JP Morgan Chase.
It was a picture of whatmy father does at work.
And I had a picture ofhim being a bank teller.
(06:25):
He wasn't a bank teller,but that's my picture.
And it was up in the corporateheadquarters for like a year, and I won
like a savings bond and the whole bit.
But anyway, so I just knewthat I just liked working.
I liked that aspect.
I liked the money part of things.
And I saw my dad and my mom andI saw the dynamic and I said,
I'd rather be like my dad.
(06:46):
I wanna be the one that makes the money.
Because I noticed even from a youngage, the money has power and has more
choices and my dad could do whatever hewanted to do because he made the money.
And so I was like, I wanna do that.
We did like really fun things together.
We went to foreclosure auctionstogether when I was a teenager.
(07:09):
We bought a house at auction andthen I helped him manage it together.
Our first rental property.
And then we used to go toStraight Talk with the Dolans.
I don't know if you rememberthem again back in the eighties.
So we're going way back.
They were a couple that talked aboutfinancial literacy and like toured around
the country and we did that together.
So I just was so fortunate tolearn at a young age about money.
(07:33):
I even had the first, electronicbanking system created by Chemical
Bank and it was called Pronto Banking.
And it almost looked like a Pong game.
And you put it on your TV.
And again, we're goingway back to the eighties.
And I had it on my TV in the eighties.
And I was like, oh, can I do the banking?
(07:55):
Can I reconcile the bank account?
So anyway, I just feel like Iliterally grew up with it in my blood.
And then when I was in college, my dadsaid to me, well, if you go to a state
school, I'll pay for it a hundred percent.
If you go to a private school,you have to take on debt.
And I was like.
Debt.
Oh my God, why wouldanybody wanna take on debt?
(08:17):
Like, I couldn't even believethat it was even a choice.
I'm like, no, I'll go to a state school.
And so I got outta school with, no debtand while I was in school, I used to do
budgets for my friends and say, oh, I canfind money in your budget for you, just
give it to me, and I would just do allthese types of financial planning things.
I didn't even know it wasa profession back then.
(08:37):
I was just good at it and I loved it,and so I just did it all the time.
Well, that's fantastic because your dadsounds like the great dad of daughters.
He's the dad all our daughters wantwhen we want them financially literate,,
how do we recreate or clone him?
Oh.
I know.
He was the most incredible man everand unfortunately he passed very early,
(08:59):
so I lost him when I was in my earlythirties and he was in his fifties.
So it's super sad to me to know thathe didn't get to see my career flourish
and I just know that he's livingthrough me, or I'm living through
him with everything he taught me.
I'm passing along to the next generation.
(09:20):
So I believe that my books andmy writing and my teachings
all come through my father.
So my dad is here with us through me.
Aw, that's beautiful.
And I think one of the main thingsI got from that story is that it
was a man, your father, that wasthe biggest influence on you.
So, for everything that you're gonnabe talking about today and that
we're gonna be discussing, it'snot just for women to listen to.
(09:42):
Even if you are a man, you've got amother, you've got a grandmother, you've
got a daughter, you've got a sisterperhaps, that you could influence or that
you care about their financial wellbeing.
So it could be valuable for anyoneto listen to this discussion.
So I love your dad.
My dad was big in my life as well,so thank you for honoring him
(10:04):
and sharing that story with us'cause the origin stories are so
important , and I just love stories.
Thank you.
Me too.
It's great because this is how we learn.
It's the mentoring.
I didn't have this mentoringand your dad made it a game.
It was play.
You said you had a lot offun going to foreclosures.
You didn't go to thebaseball games with dad.
That was fun for him andhe made it fun for you.
(10:25):
And you were like, I don't knowany different, and why don't we
incorporate our kids into our financiallives and take them to the table?
I mean, it's not that finances don'thappen at the kitchen table, and
everybody should be at the table sothat they can learn from your mistakes
and the things that you're tryingto do with your own financial life.
Your dad did all of that way aheadof his time, so kudos to him.
(10:46):
Thank you.
And he was also very transparent as well.
I knew what he made, I knewwhat his investments were.
I knew what his net worth was like.
I knew all of that.
And, again, that's why I'm so transparent.
I don't feel like there's a need to bequiet about these kinds of things, I
think they're really important to sharewith your family and your children.
(11:09):
And also even if you are not sharingor teaching, they're learning anyway.
So they're learning by osmosis, either thepositive or negative traits around money.
Everybody has a money storyor unconscious money mind of
like how you react to things.
So when I was at United Capital, wehad this thing called The Money Mind.
(11:30):
It was like a game.
And, we were at that time veryinto gamification of money, which
by the way, everybody loves.
And, everybody loves quizzes.
Everybody loves to findout about themselves.
Everybody wants to know why they dowhat they do or their unconscious
or subconscious response to money.
And so we actually wound up puttingpeople in three different buckets.
(11:51):
So you would either fear, and that'swhat unconsciously drove your decisions.
You were commitment, meaningyou are putting others before
yourself, or you were happinessand you are pretty much a spender.
So it's interesting how most peoplefall into those three buckets.
Yeah.
And so Cary, you were saying how openyour dad was sharing his net worth and
(12:12):
all that, and it was back in the eighties?
So, we know money is taboo, and so I thinkit's so cool that that was happening,
and which was the reason why I was justso fascinated with you because you are
kind of doing the same thing, just thatraw transparency with your clients.
I've been in the financial planningworld, not quite as long as you, but
being in that space, these professionals,CFPs, financial planners, they don't
(12:35):
share what their money looks like.
They don't share their debt, they don'tshare their investments, they don't
share taxes or any of that, but you do.
Please tell us how you interactwith your clients and build
that trust by being transparent.
So it's interesting because think aboutit, if somebody's coming to you and
they're literally laying their cards onthe table and showing you everything.
(12:59):
I could not feel comfortable toturn around and not show mine.
And also, they need to know they'reworking with somebody who's made
it, who's already a success, whocan retire anytime she wants.
So the first thing I dois show them my portfolio.
This is what I have, this is what I make.
And guess what?
I make more money from my portfoliothan I do from my day job.
(13:22):
And guess what?
When that happens, you made it.
You are beyond the success and obviouslythat's not everybody's life goal,
but that is certainly an incrediblegoal to have if you're making more
money from your passive job thanyou do from your active job, right?
And so I show them my portfolio,because I say I'm gonna invest your
(13:43):
portfolio like I invest my portfolio.
We are let's say similar age and similarincome and similar net worth I'm gonna
do for you what I do for myself and ofcourse what Human would not want that
Yeah, so what else are yousharing with them, your clients,
Anything they ask me.
Probably too much 'causeI'm an oversharer.
(14:05):
But my clients have beenthrough a lot with me.
They've been through a terrible divorce.
They've been throughmultiple changes in firms.
I mean multiple I don't know if you guysknow this, but I did move my clients
and my firm and everything four timesin five years with all of my clients.
(14:29):
They all stuck with you.
They all stuck with me.
And, and the reason being isbecause they know why we were
going through these transitions.
The first reason is because mycompany, which I was a partner
with, got sold to Goldman Sachstransition one, or two really?
Because I was at United Capital andthen we got sold to Goldman Sachs,
which I had no say in the matter.
(14:50):
Goldman Sachs was not agood experience for me.
It was actually the worst experienceworking for a firm that I've
ever had in my entire career.
I write about it in my new book.
It's in chapter one.
In my story.
It's an incredibly terrible storyabout what the worst things that
could happen to you at a jobhappened to me at Goldman Sachs.
(15:14):
It's so interesting because hereI was, a Women in Wealth Advocate
and well known in the profession.
I had influence.
I had actually by the time in 2019when we got sold to Goldman Sachs, I
was ranked actually number four in thecountry on the Investopedia list and the
number one woman in the United Statesin 2019 when we got sold to Goldman.
(15:37):
And I was treated unfairly and itwas a terrible experience for me.
I could not hold myself out asa financial advisor or planner.
I could not speak, I could notwrite, I could not go on tv,
I could not do social media.
Which was like a huge part of who Iam, my identity, how I get clients,
(15:59):
and I couldn't do any of that.
And so it was just ahundred percent not a fit.
The problem was I couldn'tget outta my contract.
And so that's another whole story whereI spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
with attorneys to try to get out.
I even offered them money to buy mybusiness back, and they originally
(16:20):
said yes, and then they reneged on me.
So dozens of guys got to buytheir businesses back before
me and a few guys after me.
And I'm the only one they saidno to, and I'm the only woman,
Wow.
So it sounds like to me, they werekeeping you from doing the things that
you did best, but you were bound tothis contract, and there were other
(16:40):
people in your same situation that weremale that they did allow and you were
not able to, so do you think you wereexperiencing some discrimination there?
So I believe I was, I do not have alawsuit or do not have an attorney.
I literally walked away.
I had to quit and run out my non-compete.
It was the only way I could leave.
(17:01):
Otherwise I would've been there forthe rest of my life until they sold the
firm for pennies on the dollar, whichis another story at the end of the day.
Do you know that story?
No.
We love to hear all your stories.
Okay, this is an interesting story.
So, when United Capital was sold toGoldman, it was sold for $750 million
dollars for Goldman to have their own RIA.
(17:22):
And then they pretty much ran it intothe ground because they were doing all
the wrong things because they didn'tknow how to communicate to clients, and
they didn't know how to treat employees.
And it just was a very,very difficult experience.
I'm an entrepreneur.
I created my business from scratch.
All my clients are mine,they're self sourced.
They come to me because of me,not because of the firm name.
(17:45):
Goldman is the complete opposite.
Goldman's clients come to Goldmanonly because of their name.
So they want you to be literallyan interchangeable widget.
So you are like, not even likea human being, like you are
just a placeholder that can becompletely switched out at any time.
And so that wasn't gonna workwith me or my clients because
(18:07):
they weren't there for the name.
We were there because we gotsold and we had no choice.
And so I had no say in thematter of when we were sold.
So when I had to quit and run outmy non-compete, that's what I did.
And then that was in 2022.
2023 happens.
(18:27):
Here we are a year or so after I left.
Goldman announces that they'reselling United Capital and they sold
United Capital for take a guess.
By the way, I was right about everything.
So it feels really good.
So they paid 750, take aguess what they sold it for?
50 million dollars.
You are so close.
A hundred million.
(18:48):
They took a $650 millionloss because that's how much
they destroyed the company.
Yeah, it must be.
So what's the right way to do it?
You've been through somany different models.
You've been small, you've beenmedium, you've been big, you've
been international, and yourclients have stayed with you.
What's the model they like best thatfits you, what's the model that maybe
(19:09):
are the average Joe American shouldbe looking for since you've learned
so much about how not to do it?
So I love, and this is me personally,I love a national fee only RIA.
Registered Investment Advisory firm.
Now, the issue with that isthey're not household names, so
it's not like they're easy to findbecause they're not the big firms.
(19:32):
They're not the MorganStanley's, the Edward Jones.
They're not the big ones.
The big ones are potentially notfiduciaries, which is, do we wanna go
down that road and talk about that?
Sure.
I feel like the term fiduciaryis thrown all around.
Why don't you give us some clarityaround what that is and what it means
to someone in our audience that mightbe looking for a planner themselves.
(19:55):
Sure.
So I always believe that if you're goingto work with a planner, in both cases,
one, they should be board certified.
So that's a CFP.
And right now in the United Statesthere's a hundred thousand of us.
When I started 20 yearsago, there was 40,000.
So we've certainly grown.
The numbers are incredibly high.
(20:15):
A hundred thousand is a great numberand it's continuing to grow from there.
So really fantastic.
We have a hundred thousand boardcertified, and I always say it's
like a doctor or an attorney.
Why would you not wanna work withsomebody who's board certified?
Like it's the next level up.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
Second thing is, I believe as afiduciary, and what that term means
(20:36):
is that any advice that you are givenis in the best interest of the client.
If it's not in the best interest ofthe client, then you can be sued.
And so the client is always on the sameside of the table as the advisor, and
they're not selling them products ormaking commission, or it's also called fee
(20:57):
only, that's another way to look at it.
All the advice I'm giving my clientsis in the client's best interest,
and they never have to worry becausethere's no conflict of interest.
So you're taking theconflicts of interest out.
So if I'm offering a product,it's because I think it's the best
product on the market and I'm onlygetting paid from the client, not
from the product that I'm offering.
(21:20):
So Cary, with all this background,all this experience, and we really
wanted to get to know you first.
So thank you so much for that.
So why do you believe that womenneed a different approach when
it comes to financial planningversus the way men look at things?
That's a big long answer, so I'mgoing to hopefully not take up the
whole rest of the time, but, okay.
(21:41):
So let's start with first this industrywealth management was created by men for
men, and that's okay because guess what?
That's what it was.
So we have , 80% of planners aremen and in general 80% of the
clients were men and you had, asmaller number of women clients.
(22:02):
And then my industry only looks at womenin two categories, divorced or widowed.
Women are much more thandivorced or widowed.
Women are a whole life cycle of events,and we're not just divorced or widowed.
So, that's the first issue.
Then we also have the fact that everystudy on the planet shows that women
(22:24):
are not being served by this industry.
So, and let me give you somestats on that and why I say that.
So the first one isthat they say 70 to 90%.
So we'll split the difference and say80% of females fire their advisor after
their husband dies, because guess what?
They're not being served by that advisor.
(22:44):
They're either being overlooked.
Not spoken to, not asked what they want.
Jargon-ed.
Not even included in the meetings.
Sometimes they don't even make eyecontact, in the middle of the meetings.
So that's a stat that's been around for areally long time and it has not changed.
So then there was a fantastic studythat was done by Harvard in 2009
(23:08):
that said, financial services isthe least sympathetic industry
to women and the one that has themost to gain if they get it right.
Should we talk about the greatwealth transfer and the shift?
That's actually one of the main reasonswe're here today, because that's
what you talk about in your book.
And men, pay attention to what we're gonnasay next because this involves you too.
(23:28):
So this is the most incredible thing.
So now I have been talking about the GreatWealth Transfer for over a decade, and
we are now five short years away from it.
So we've known about it for 10, 15years, but now we're five years away.
So by 2030.
(23:50):
Women are gonna control in the UnitedStates, two thirds of the nation's
wealth, which is $30 trillion witha T, not a B, and which is the same
as the GDP of the United States.
Just to put it in context, right?
So this has never happenedbefore in history.
Women right now currently controlone third of the nation's wealth.
(24:13):
So it's getting set to doublein the next five years.
And so the first questionI always get is, why.
And so let me talk about why that ishappening, because there's a lot of
factors converging at the same time.
And so McKinsey did the study on this.
Over a decade ago with allthese things coming into play.
(24:35):
So these are the differentstats of why this is happening.
So one is women's longevity.
Women live five to sevenyears longer than men.
Therefore, women are going to beinheriting the great wealth from spouses,
from parents, from the baby boomers.
(24:56):
All of this is happeningover the next five years.
That's number one.
Number two, gray divorce women over50 getting divorced is the numbers are
going through the roof, and those womenare walking away with a lot of money.
Then we have women startingbusinesses faster than men.
So women entrepreneurs are a forceto be reckoned with, and it's
(25:19):
not slowing down anytime soon.
And women do it out ofnecessity because they just.
Can't find something else and theycreate these incredible companies.
Then the fourth one, which is also oneof my favorites, is that for the first
time in history, women will be primarybreadwinners in the United States, which
is an incredibly stark contrast fromthe 1950s where women were less than 5%
(25:45):
of breadwinners in the United States.
And they were only because theywere widows or single women.
And on top of that, Cary.
live a lot longer.
They have a longer life expectancy.
So, that factored in, there's areason for planners especially to
recognize how important it is tounderstand women, and that's part
(26:06):
of what we're trying to do today.
And that's, mainly what you've beentrying to do since the days of your dad.
Well, there's a funny analogy here toobecause this is all about lady splaining
in a way, instead of mansplaining money.
And you do a good job because men,as Jackie has said before, and we had
a lot of shows on asset classes andasset allocation, and men just love to
talk about asset allocation and womendon't necessarily understand it or
(26:29):
want to talk about it, but you wrotean article explaining to women what
asset allocation or asset classes were.
Can you tell us what you did thereto bring that message across?
It's one of my absolute favorites.
When I wrote it, it went viral, soI know it reached a lot of women.
I compared asset classes to shoes.
And I went through every single assetclass and compared it to a pair of
(26:52):
shoes in your closet and why youwould wear it, and why you would take
it out and why you would need it.
And I got so many women reachingout to me, even strangers that said,
I never understood this before.
Why didn't anybody everexplain it to me this way?
And I said, it's just a different analogy.
Our industry is very male, so it's a lotof sports analogies, a lot of beating
(27:16):
the S&P 500, which really does notresonate with women in my entire career.
I have never had a woman askme, can we beat the S&P 500?
Like, it never happens.
She wants to know, is she gonna be okay?
Is she gonna be a bag lady?
Is she gonna run outta money?
What she loses sleep overat night is not that.
I'm not the only one who comes upwith these amazing women analogies.
(27:38):
I just did a CFP board call with myfriend Elaine King, who's also a CFP
board ambassador, and she uses recipesand spices to explain asset classes.
When women share their voice, they areable to present a different picture.
And I don't think it's thatdifficult, but when you start
(27:59):
using an analogy that someone's notinterested in, you just lose them.
So tell us about the shoes analogy.
I heard that ESG fundsare like Birkenstocks.
Is that correct?
That's right.
That's what I compared them to.
What is small cap value then?
Is it stilettos?
I gotta go look back at thething, but I think you're right.
High risk, high reward.
Yes.
Yes.
Then your everyday pumps mustbe V-T-S-A-X or something.
(28:21):
So my everyday pumps are S&P 500.
And then I've got my Gucciloafers, our muni bonds.
There's all reasons for everyone of them to be something.
My kitten heels are, I think oh mygosh, I can't remember what I put kitten
heels as I think that they're mid-caps.
Every single shoe is adifferent asset class.
I got REITs, I havecommodities, I have everything.
(28:42):
I have everything in there.
And you can't wear pumps everyday, and you can't survive
in stilettos by themselves.
And if you just have one pairof shoes, it might wear out.
So you need to have severaldifferent pairs of shoes for every
occasion, for all weather, portfolioinvesting and diversification.
Right.
Yes.
And actually sneakers, whicheverybody has is my cash.
How you pay for things.
(29:03):
everybody's got sneakers.
So Cary, did you send us thatarticle or that post that you wrote?
We gotta share that.
It's on LinkedIn and it's also onmy website, but I will absolutely
a hundred percent get it to you.
So what did the men think of the article?
You wrote it for women, but didthe men get anything out of it too?
You know what the men told me?
I learned about shoes.
That's what I was told,
(29:25):
It just didn't resonate with them.
It goes to show you that communicationis really about listening and
about envisioning how the person'sgoing to receive a message,
and you wanna get it across.
It's not mansplaining.
I'm called lecture daddy in my familybecause I would just say how I viewed
it to my kids and they're like, dad,go talk to your podcast microphone.
(29:45):
Go talk to your Facebook group,because that's not resonating with me.
It's waiting for their ears toopen and then finding the words
that get the message across soyou can move on to the next thing.
Exactly.
And also, you know what I always say,that men are from Mars, women are from
Venus type thing, from back in the day?
We do speak different languages,so why wouldn't we speak different
(30:06):
languages when it comes to money too?
We hear things different.
We process things different.
On the brain side, women have more verbal.
They have verbal hemispheres onthe left and the right brain.
So, which is why women wanna talkmore and that's part of who we are.
And it's interesting because I alsosay to men that women as clients, for
(30:28):
example, if women are gonna be yourfuture client, which I wanna talk about
that for a second too because Suruli,which is another great research company,
came out with a study this year, at thebeginning of this year, February of 2025.
And they said, obviously, again,saying that women are the future
wealth management clients.
(30:48):
But they said that firms that get thisright with women will be positioned
for decades to come, like decades.
Get it right now and you aregonna have your clients for life.
But I always say, so for me, my practiceis 80% women and 20% couples, with the
(31:09):
woman being the primary breadwinner inthe relationship, in almost every case.
I probably have two clients that themale was the primary breadwinner,
one's retired and one's still working.
But in general, I am reverse whatevery other financial planner is.
So when I tell a, a room offinancial planners, which are 80%
men, that I have 80% female clients,they fall out of their chair.
(31:32):
They literally can't believe it.
And then when I tell them thatthey're bread-winning women that
make over a million dollars a year,they also fall out of their chair
because it's like an urban myth.
Do these people even exist?
It's kind of funny to me becauseI'm like, well, obviously
that's not your target market.
That's not who you're going after,that's not who you're speaking to.
You're getting your clients the oldfashioned way, the way guys got 'em either
(31:56):
doing seminars or on the golf course.
Women don't do that.
We don't get clients that way.
We do it very differently.
So, my whole career have heldmyself out as an advocate for women
and I've practiced what I preach.
And so I have attracted thewomen to me who mirror myself.
And they say that over timeyou mirror your clients.
(32:20):
I don't know if that happens in thedoctor world, but it definitely happens
in the financial planning world.
And I just woke up one day and I was like,wow, I am the exact same as my clients.
Well, you're not gonna go to thedoctor who's obese and smokes.
Things have changed.
This is the growth market.
This is where men, if it's 80% ofmen in the industry, they've got
to learn how to talk to women.
This is the age old problem,and now it's about money, which
(32:42):
makes it even more important.
Right?
So what is the industry doingabout helping men take care
of this growth market of womenwho are managing the wealth?
Since there's a disconnectnow with not speaking the
language that they want to hear.
Honestly, absolutely nothing.
That's the problem.
That's a generalization.
However, I'm sure at some firms they'redoing some types of things, but that
(33:07):
is literally why I wrote the book.
I wrote the book to be the playbook.
I'm hoping that I get a workbook to comewith this because I've been told that
advisors are going through entire legalpads, taking notes from the book of stuff
to do to address this market and go afterthis market and treat this market right.
So I'm super excited because I'mhoping that this is the start of
(33:30):
a snowball to change the industry.
That's why I wrote it.
I think that it will, and it bringsme back to the question of what
is it that women are looking for?
Let's say, it doesn't even have tobe a divorced person or a widow.
Often they are, but just the averagewoman when they are thinking,
I need a financial planner.
(33:51):
I need a fiduciary, somebody that is gonnabe comprehensive to help me from A to Z.
What qualities are they lookingfor when they're trying to
find a planner to work with?
I believe that they are lookingfor empathy, trust, education.
They feel-in-their-gutcomfortable with that person and
not judged or talked down to.
(34:13):
When I talk to my clients,I'm never dumbing it down.
I'm changing the language.
I'm never dumbing it down.
Women are incredibly capable women.
Are smart, are great planners.
Like women plan vacations.
They plan weddings, they plan parties.
They plan a lot of great things, butthey don't necessarily wake up and
say, I wanna plan my retirement today.
(34:35):
Usually by the time I get a client, it'ssome sort of catastrophe type of thing.
Like death, divorce, disability, job loss.
Something happens and then they're like,okay, now I need professional help.
So I want to get to the pointwhere women are just saying, I
think I need a financial planner.
Like I need a roadmap.
(34:56):
Because I always say, how are yougonna get to retirement without a plan?
It's like driving without directions.
So I think everybody needs one.
Yeah.
And do you think the CFP industry andthe educational models for educating
A CFP are addressing this problem?
I do.
Well, so there's nothing specificto women in the curriculum for
(35:18):
the CFPI would love there to be,they're right this moment in time.
There isn't.
However, our current CFP boardchair is a woman, and our next
CFP board chair is a woman.
And I know that women's research and womengetting more women into the profession
and mentorship and all of that stuffis very important to the CFP board.
(35:42):
We also have the Center for FinancialPlanning, which is the nonprofit arm of
the CFP Board, which I'm involved in.
We do scholarships for women anda whole bunch of other stuff.
And also African American.
We have lots and lots of stuff.
The African American are like, what?
It's 3%.
Two.
Oh.
So we think it's bad with women, it'seven worse with African American as well.
(36:03):
So we know that we have to get to paritywith what the United States looks like.
So if 50% women, we have to be 50% women.
If we're 45%, what is thenumber for African American?
I wanna say 16%.
We need to get to that number.
We eventually need to be mirroringexactly what the United States looks like.
(36:26):
But we are so far from it, andthat's what we've been working on
with the nonprofit arm, which isthe Center for Financial Planning.
So, are we addressing it?
We're trying.
It's such a big, big goal and it'sso difficult to move the needle.
It's not like people have not been trying,people have been trying for decades.
(36:47):
It's just not happening fast enough.
It's like moving an ocean liner, I guess.
But I am part of it.
So next week I'm going with the CFP boardand a couple of influential women and
a couple of influential nonprofits, andwe're all meeting in New York City to
solve this issue and really bring actionitems to fruition to move this needle
(37:11):
that has been so difficult to move.
And so I'm not giving up 'cause it'smy life's goal and I'm really hoping
that it happens in my lifetime.
Oh, I think it absolutely can.
I think we can speed this up 'cause wehave models like medicine where things
have evolved from the days of quacksto subspecialties and we now see 51,
52% of women are in med school andthey're not taking over the profession.
(37:35):
But there is parity.
It's not a male dominated field anymore.
This is what's happening to thefinancial services industry as well.
And things move slowly.
We men have to, leave room for womento do what they are potentially better
at doing than we are and embrace that.
Right.
Exactly.
It's interesting because like when Iwrote this book, I wrote it for the
(37:57):
profession to make it female friendly,the client experience better for the
female client and also better for womenwho wanna come into the profession.
It was like a dual focus.
I feel like we are moving towardsthat goal but we are not there.
You know how you said it's parity now?
We are really far from parity,so we have to really reach young
(38:20):
people to understand like, sincethe profession is only 50 years old
and it's new, we need to reach younggirls and girls in elementary school.
Like if you ask them,do you wanna be a CFP?
They don't even know whatyou're talking about.
Well, that's a great analogy.
Because are you gonna be a doctor, alawyer, accountant, or a business person?
(38:41):
And what they don't realize is thefamily practitioner of finance is the
CFP that's their general practitionerthat helps you with all things financial
and it's gotten so complicated thatyou do need a translator and a helper
and 90% of the nation need access toit financially as well, for people
to have less means and less resourcesas opposed to the high hurdle of an a
minimum of 500,000 or something like that.
(39:02):
That's one of the things that preventspeople from accessing that as a
profession is like, okay, I'm nevergonna have the money to engage with one.
And if it's fee for service, when you havelower levels of income, we've had Abundo
wealth in the show where they're doing itas a subscription model for $189 a month.
Just like concierge medicine.
Help as you need it.
And so I think the models are changing,things are moving, and this snowball will
(39:26):
roll downhill with people like yourselvesthat are educating us that, we need
to talk about a CFP as a profession inthe same sentence as the one of being
you wanna be a doctor when you grow up?
Well, you wanna be a CFP when you grow up?
Let's talk to those young girls.
Let's talk to those young boys and havethem work together to find this new hybrid
model that serves men and women, equally.
(39:47):
I believe that.
If possible, because I've seen it acouple of times where the employer
takes money from their EAP programand they give it to their employees
to pay for financial planning.
And I think that's an incrediblemodel if you could get it.
I'm Darden Foods paid fortheir executives' financial
(40:07):
plans or line workers.
I don't know what their cutoff was,but they gave a certain amount per
year for financial planning advice.
I think that's anincredible employee benefit.
Yeah, and I'm seeing thatmore and more Cary as well.
And even some smaller companiesthat might not have so much in the
budget, they are doing more financialeducation, financial wellness.
(40:28):
I even have gone into companies wherewe're doing that or I collaborate
with other, financial educationprofessionals and we go in and
we help educate their employees.
I am starting to see that.
Back to the young girls and trying toteach them when they're in elementary
school, when they're in middle school.
(40:49):
You attended, I don't know how long agothis was, but a Girl Scout conference
where you were representing the financialplanning industry for young girls.
Tell us about that.
Oh my God, it was so incredible.
It was in Orlando.
It was the National GirlScout Convention Conference.
It was 2022 and it was one ofthe most impactful couple of
(41:10):
days I had in my entire career.
And I wrote a blog afterwards thatthe CFP board distributed to all
the professionals so I could sharewhat happened with everybody.
And it was so incredibly impactful becausethere was thousands of girls there.
And not only did we teach themwhat a CFP was, but we played a
(41:31):
game with the girls where we tookthem through how do you retire?
And their first thing was, do you wannago to college or not go to college?
And everybody said, I wanna go to college.
And then we gave them a hundredthousand dollars debt card.
And they're like, oh, now Idon't wanna go to college.
And I'm like, too bad.
You already picked it.
You can't change it.
So now you gotta work off that debt.
We taught 'em all these lessonsgoing through the game, and then
(41:54):
they got to retirement at the end.
And then we had like future CFPselfie stations and future CFP
tattoos that we gave everybody.
And I actually have so many of themthat I give them out at Halloween.
So my neighborhood kidsget 'em all the time.
I love it.
I can imagine it's like go toCary's house for Halloween.
You're making a difference.
(42:14):
I would've never thought the Girl Scouts,but this is where they start forming
their interests, their aspirations, theirdreams, and it's like, why not start that
early with some age appropriate stuff?
So, kudos for you forgetting with the girls.
It was incredible.
Think about it, the girls were agefive through 18 and it's not like
they don't know about financialliteracy because they have a financial
(42:36):
literacy badge in the Girl Scouts.
But they still didn't know what a CFP was.
Things are changing there, but you've alsobeen to meetings where you've asked women
to raise their hand and saying, what doyou think of the term is a man the plan?
And a lot of women wouldsay that is the plan still.
And in these daysmarriage is delayed later.
Women are accumulatingassets prior to marriage.
(42:57):
And then you get into a relationship.
Are you a believer inyours, mine, and ours.
And how do women keep their ownfinancial power from being drained
away and abdicating to the man orother partner in the relationship?
How do you keep it equal as you grow amarriage like you're growing a business?
So, it is very challenging.
I believe in full disclosure, andI believe that, with your spouse,
(43:21):
you should be financially naked.
Meaning, all the debts in the closet orall the bad stuff, all the good stuff.
You have to be on the same page.
'Cause I always say, when you're gettingmarried to somebody, you're not just
marrying them, you're marrying theirmoney and their money personality
and are you guys on the same page?
Are you both spenders?
Are you both savers?
Your thoughts on, life?
Are you on the same page?
(43:41):
Do you have the same dreamsand goals and things like that?
So I believe that's a great timeto sit with a financial planner,
if you haven't, it's a great step.
Somebody, starting out in their livesto get on the same page financially.
So, I don't know if you know this,but, so I was in a terrible marriage
and terrible, terrible marriage.
(44:03):
I married Mr. Wrong in my thirties andI wound up where he committed financial
infidelity, meaning he hid assets from me.
His money was neveravailable to pay bills.
He only used my money to pay bills.
I was on the mortgage.
He was not on the mortgage.
(44:23):
That's a whole other long story.
I talk about it in my first book actually,and I talk a little bit about it in my
second book, but mainly in my first book.
So what I always say, if it couldhappen to me, as smart as I am about
money and as successful as I am,it can happen to anyone, any woman
on the planet this can happen to.
So I always want women to havetheir own money, their own job,
(44:47):
their own credit score, theirown credit, and their own stuff.
And so even like stay athome moms, for example.
My daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom.
And I always say a stay-at-homemom is at risk because guess what?
You just gave up your career and maybe15 years down the road you get divorced.
(45:07):
Now you have to start over from scratchwithout having your working all that time.
And guess what?
He's building his 401k.
He's building this.
So I always say no matter what,you should at least be getting
a spousal IRA every single year.
Even if you're not working.
You should be putting it in yourname so you could build some
of your assets in your name.
(45:28):
Cary, can you explain tous what a spousal IRA is?
Sure.
So most people they work, they can putmoney in an IRA, which is a regular
Individual Retirement Account, meaningit's in your name and your name only.
It's not a joint asset, it's yours.
You can have a beneficiary on it,but it's a hundred percent yours.
So if you are a stay at home mom, youcan get a spousal IRA that's deductible
(45:54):
off your tax return in your name alone,the husband, or wherever you have to
just pull it from your existing assets.
It's then an asset that's in your name.
So it's just like a regular IRA,but it's called a spousal IRA.
Meaning you didn't work, but youcan still take that tax deduction.
So are you a believer in blendedfinances or do you maintain your own
(46:14):
accounts and put 'em in a joint accountin order to pay your joint bills?
Do you let it be a little more complexso you can keep the money separate or
does it really matter when you're marriedanyway and things get split in divorce?
Right.
So I think it depends on thesituation and it depends on the
couple, and it depends on, I don'tthink there's any right or wrong way.
I think it really depends.
So for me my husband and I paybills from a joint account.
(46:38):
We both have our own investment accountswhere we're each other's beneficiaries.
And I can log in and see his,he can log in and see mine.
We show each other on a daily basis.
This is what I'm up, this is what I'm up.
And it is all pulled togethertechnically anyway because it's one pot.
I don't think there is any right or wrong.
I think it's whatever youfeel comfortable with.
I have my sister and my brother-in-law,they both work they keep all of their
(47:02):
money separate because that's what worksfor them, and no judgment whatsoever.
They pay their bills and, onepays for stuff out of one account.
They split up who's paying what,and then the other one pays
for stuff out of their account.
And that's the way it works for them.
And Cary, I don't know if youget asked this all the time, and
this is why there is a need formore women, but I have my CFP.
I have so many people, women askingme, can you refer me to a woman CFP?
(47:26):
Women are specifically looking towork with a woman, so that's part of
the reason why the problem kind ofneeds to be solved as well, because
that's what people are asking for.
Exactly.
And there's literally not enough of us togo around, that is actually the problem.
Because if every woman wants to workwith a woman, we don't have enough.
We literally don't have enough.
(47:47):
Now what's interesting is, in mycareer, I have had a client of mine,
a woman who referred me to anotherwoman, a friend of hers, and she
said to me, I would never work with awoman 'cause a woman can't take care
of my money as good as a man can.
This brings up the term you talk about,and I wanna probably try and close out
the show with talking about biases.
(48:07):
You talk a lot about extrinsicand intrinsic biases, and
this is where that comes from.
Now you've got it in reverse.
You don't want your man to takecare of your money necessarily when
you're married, but when you haveyour own money, you don't trust a
woman to take care of it anymore.
You need a male CFP.
How?
Why is this?
I think it's, honestly, it'sunconscious bias, implicit bias.
It's generational bias.
(48:28):
It's been around forever.
You gotta remember where we came from.
So in my book, I actually have twochapters that are very interesting
related to this that are not eventhe unconscious bias chapters,
which is another whole story.
But I have the history of.
Women and money, and I have thehistory of female breadwinners.
So you have to see where wecame from to why some of those
(48:52):
things are still around today.
And it's really just because it'snot that long ago in the 1950s
where women were home taking careof their husbands and making sure
the kids were quiet and played nice.
Don't get a hair out of place becauseI have to look like June Cleaver when
my husband comes home and take offhis slippers and give him a drink.
(49:12):
That's not that far ago.
I mean, it's like almost in my lifetime.
So we are not that far from that.
So we've come a long waybaby, but not really.
So I think that that's part of the issue.
Yeah.
So tell us the name of the bookagain, and when was it released?
It was very recent.
Yes, two and a half weeks ago.
(49:33):
Very, very new.
And it's called Women in Wealth,A Playbook to Empower Clients
and Unlock Their Fortune.
And so I originally wrote this formen, financial advisors, but however,
women financial advisors are goingcrazy over it and flocking to it.
And then women in general aregoing crazy and flocking to it.
(49:54):
So I think I have like threedifferent audiences for this book.
Women who just wanna understandwhat a relationship with a
financial planner looks like.
The questions to askwhat it should look like.
If it's not like this, thenyou gotta get another one.
It's funny Cary Hannon from Yahoo Financedid a review on the book and she said
that, people should look at this and say,if that's what it looks like, if mine
(50:18):
doesn't look like that, I need to get anew financial advisor, or at least start
from scratch and get somebody like this.
Yeah, you're pulling back the curtain.
You're uniquely poised to look at bothsides of the curtain where you've got
the client facing side of you and thenthe professional industry side of you.
So a book like this where it says womenin the title, men might be turned off,
(50:38):
but I want to read this because thisis only good for my marriage, this is
only good for my understanding of womenin general, which is good for my life.
And we think, oh, that's a woman's book.
No it's not.
I guarantee you that men get more out ofthis than your women clients probably do.
I totally agree with you.
So the initial title, by the wayof the book, Wiley had changed it.
The original title of the bookwas Compel Her, Don't Sell Her.
(51:02):
And I think that that was alittle bit more male and then they
changed it to Women and Wealth.
And I'm like, ooh, can't wego back to the old title.
And they were like, no,this is the new title.
And I was like, I feel likeit's gonna resonate more
with women and less with men.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know.
You tell me.
Well, I'm gonna pick up a copyand read it because we've had
other authors like Janine Firpo.
(51:23):
We've gotta get you in touch withher because she's all about activate
your money as a woman and vote yourvalues, because women are much more
inclined to believe in values alignedwith money, and she wants you to make
the world a better place by puttingyour money where your values are.
And that's what you're about too.
So we'll try and get you togetherwith her so the two of you can
connect and compound your efforts.
(51:43):
I
yeah.
So Cary, the book is available,it's called Women and Wealth
everywhere books are sold, right?
So, if someone wanted to find out moreabout you, read more about what you're
doing where's the best place to do that?
So my website is carycarbonaro.com.
You can also find me on allsocial media channels, LinkedIn,
Facebook, Instagram, X?
I still call it Twitter.
(52:04):
And I'm the only carry Carbonaro, soI'm really easy to find and pretty
much everything is just under my name.
We can't forget, Jackie, that we're allabout late starters here and Cary is our
age and uniquely poised to maybe give usa tip or two about should late starters
look for in this future of women andmoney and money management and advisories?
(52:25):
Is there any tips you have for ouraudience that are maybe a little
bit lost in looking for a home base?
So I would say, first of allit's never too late, right?
If you are breathing and livingand working, it's not too late.
Okay?
And the power of compounding interestis the eighth wonder of the world.
So you just have to figure out the numbersand then figure out how to get there.
(52:48):
Like, again, everybody needs a plan.
You can't drive without a map.
So all you need to do is figureout what you need to do to make
your dream come true of retirementor whatever your dream is.
I mean, retirement is a great dream.
Everybody wants it.
The original three-legged stool was socialsecurity, pension and outside assets.
(53:10):
And that was how you were gonna get there.
Well, pensions almost don't exist anymore.
Such a small percentage of theUnited States has pensions.
So now that onus is on you tomake up that difference, 'cause
social security is still onlyabout 25% of your retirement needs.
So you need to fill 75%with your own assets, either
(53:32):
retirement or after tax assets.
And so I just believe everybodycan do it and you just need a
plan to tell you what to do.
Well, we really appreciate your comingon and speaking with our audience
about your very powerful message.
You're a very energetic person.
I look forward to reading your book.
I know I will recommendit to women in my life.
(53:53):
My nieces, they're graduating in the nearfuture, and maybe I'll have to give them
your book as well because Jackie's bookis a book I'm giving them for graduation.
He better.
Alright, Jackie, thanksfor being here today.
Cary, it's wonderful to meet you.
I look forward to meeting you in person.
And guys, we'll see you nextweek on Catching Up to Fi.
he was also very transparent as well.
I knew what he made, I knewwhat his investments were.
I knew what his net worth was like.
I knew all of that.
And, again, that's why I'm so transparent.
I don't feel like there's a need to bequiet about these kinds of things, I
think they're really important to sharewith your family and your children.
(00:23):
And also even if you are not sharingor teaching, they're learning anyway.
So they're learning by osmosis, either thepositive or negative traits around money.
Everybody has a money storyor unconscious money mind of
like how you react to things.
if somebody's coming to you and they'reliterally laying their cards on the
(00:46):
table and showing you everything.
I could not feel comfortable toturn around and not show mine.
And also, they need to know they'reworking with somebody who's made
it, who's already a success, whocan retire anytime she wants.
So the first thing I dois show them my portfolio.
This is what I have, this is what I make.
And guess what?
(01:07):
I make more money from my portfoliothan I do from my day job.
And guess what?
When that happens, you made it.
You are beyond the success and obviouslythat's not everybody's life goal,
but that is certainly an incrediblegoal to have if you're making more
money from your passive job thanyou do from your active job, right?
(01:27):
And so I show them my portfolio,
I compared asset classes to shoes.
And I went through every single assetclass and compared it to a pair of
shoes in your closet and why youwould wear it, and why you would take
it out and why you would need it.
And I got so many women reachingout to me, even strangers that said,
(01:49):
I never understood this before.
Why didn't anybody everexplain it to me this way?
And I said, it's just a different analogy.
Our industry is very male, so it's a lotof sports analogies, a lot of beating
the S&P 500, which really does notresonate with women in my entire career.
I have never had a woman askme, can we beat the S&P 500?
(02:12):
Like, it never happens.
(02:45):
Hello and welcome backto Catching Up to Fi.
I'm Bill Yount with Jackie CummingsKoski, and today we're talking
again about women's empowermentand financial on the services side.
And on the client side, we have afantastic guest who was introduced
to us by Shana Game of theEveryone's Talking Money podcast.
Jackie, you're gonna introduceour guest for us today?
I sure am and I amthrilled to have her today.
(03:07):
So our guest today is Cary Carbonaro, andshe's an award-winning certified financial
planner with over 25 years of experience.
She's one of the few women that's beenaround that long, but her passion is
empowering women to discover their uniquepath to financial freedom, something
we talk about on the show all the time.
So, Cary is the Managing Wealth Advisorand Women and Wealth ambassador at
(03:32):
Ashton Thomas, where she leads amultimillion dollar financial planning
practice focused on empowering women.
One thing I love the most about Cary ishow transparent she is with her clients.
So she shares her tax return,investment portfolio and other
financial information with them.
And it's like, wow, I have neverfound another CFE or financial
(03:56):
planner that is willing to do this.
So we're gonna get into that alittle bit, but she's just blown
me away after hearing that.
But as a respected industry voice,she's been named Investopedia's top 100
financial advisors six times, not 1,2, 3, or four, or five, but six times.
And she is the first female memberof the 2024 NASDAQ Advisor Council.
(04:19):
Cary is the bestselling author of theMoney Queen's Guide and just released
her newest book, Women and Wealth,which we will definitely get into.
So, Cary not only empowers adult women,but she also shares her knowledge with
young girls like she did at a recentGirl Scout conference to make sure they
become smart cookies with their finances.
(04:39):
Cary, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to behere with you guys today.
Well, it's awesome because 75% of ouraudience, and men may feel a little dissed
here, but 75% of our audience are women.
And they're women starting overwho've succumbed to medical
catastrophe, financial catastrophe,divorce, and they're starting over.
(05:01):
They're late starters andthey want to be empowered.
And here we have a voice thathas grown up in the financial
services industry in Cary.
And she has seen what the evolution of thesystem, as well as the evolution of the
client and the woman is becoming a primaryclient of the financial services industry.
And we're finally now speaking to them.
(05:21):
Cary, take us back a little bit for amoment here to your origins, how did
you become such a whiz with money?
So I love telling this story.
I am the oldest of my siblings andI bonded over money with my dad.
He worked for JP Morgan Chase.
(05:42):
He was a Senior VicePresident at JP Morgan Chase.
And I grew up learning financial literacy,like kids go to sports games and we did
all these amazing things around money.
I thought it was something thateverybody learned growing up.
I did not know that.
It was not something thatpeople learned or didn't learn.
(06:04):
And I remember even with my dad inthe seventies, when I was very little,
he would take me to work before therewas a take your daughter to work day.
So I would go to the bank with him.
I remember even when I was five yearsold, I won a contest for JP Morgan Chase.
It was a picture of whatmy father does at work.
And I had a picture ofhim being a bank teller.
(06:25):
He wasn't a bank teller,but that's my picture.
And it was up in the corporateheadquarters for like a year, and I won
like a savings bond and the whole bit.
But anyway, so I just knewthat I just liked working.
I liked that aspect.
I liked the money part of things.
And I saw my dad and my mom andI saw the dynamic and I said,
I'd rather be like my dad.
(06:46):
I wanna be the one that makes the money.
Because I noticed even from a youngage, the money has power and has more
choices and my dad could do whatever hewanted to do because he made the money.
And so I was like, I wanna do that.
We did like really fun things together.
We went to foreclosure auctionstogether when I was a teenager.
(07:09):
We bought a house at auction andthen I helped him manage it together.
Our first rental property.
And then we used to go toStraight Talk with the Dolans.
I don't know if you rememberthem again back in the eighties.
So we're going way back.
They were a couple that talked aboutfinancial literacy and like toured around
the country and we did that together.
So I just was so fortunate tolearn at a young age about money.
(07:33):
I even had the first, electronicbanking system created by Chemical
Bank and it was called Pronto Banking.
And it almost looked like a Pong game.
And you put it on your TV.
And again, we're goingway back to the eighties.
And I had it on my TV in the eighties.
And I was like, oh, can I do the banking?
(07:55):
Can I reconcile the bank account?
So anyway, I just feel like Iliterally grew up with it in my blood.
And then when I was in college, my dadsaid to me, well, if you go to a state
school, I'll pay for it a hundred percent.
If you go to a private school,you have to take on debt.
And I was like.
Debt.
Oh my God, why wouldanybody wanna take on debt?
(08:17):
Like, I couldn't even believethat it was even a choice.
I'm like, no, I'll go to a state school.
And so I got outta school with, no debtand while I was in school, I used to do
budgets for my friends and say, oh, I canfind money in your budget for you, just
give it to me, and I would just do allthese types of financial planning things.
I didn't even know it wasa profession back then.
(08:37):
I was just good at it and I loved it,and so I just did it all the time.
Well, that's fantastic because your dadsounds like the great dad of daughters.
He's the dad all our daughters wantwhen we want them financially literate,,
how do we recreate or clone him?
Oh.
I know.
He was the most incredible man everand unfortunately he passed very early,
(08:59):
so I lost him when I was in my earlythirties and he was in his fifties.
So it's super sad to me to know thathe didn't get to see my career flourish
and I just know that he's livingthrough me, or I'm living through
him with everything he taught me.
I'm passing along to the next generation.
(09:20):
So I believe that my books andmy writing and my teachings
all come through my father.
So my dad is here with us through me.
Aw, that's beautiful.
And I think one of the main thingsI got from that story is that it
was a man, your father, that wasthe biggest influence on you.
So, for everything that you're gonnabe talking about today and that
we're gonna be discussing, it'snot just for women to listen to.
(09:42):
Even if you are a man, you've got amother, you've got a grandmother, you've
got a daughter, you've got a sisterperhaps, that you could influence or that
you care about their financial wellbeing.
So it could be valuable for anyoneto listen to this discussion.
So I love your dad.
My dad was big in my life as well,so thank you for honoring him
(10:04):
and sharing that story with us'cause the origin stories are so
important , and I just love stories.
Thank you.
Me too.
It's great because this is how we learn.
It's the mentoring.
I didn't have this mentoringand your dad made it a game.
It was play.
You said you had a lot offun going to foreclosures.
You didn't go to thebaseball games with dad.
That was fun for him andhe made it fun for you.
(10:25):
And you were like, I don't knowany different, and why don't we
incorporate our kids into our financiallives and take them to the table?
I mean, it's not that finances don'thappen at the kitchen table, and
everybody should be at the table sothat they can learn from your mistakes
and the things that you're tryingto do with your own financial life.
Your dad did all of that way aheadof his time, so kudos to him.
(10:46):
Thank you.
And he was also very transparent as well.
I knew what he made, I knewwhat his investments were.
I knew what his net worth was like.
I knew all of that.
And, again, that's why I'm so transparent.
I don't feel like there's a need to bequiet about these kinds of things, I
think they're really important to sharewith your family and your children.
(11:09):
And also even if you are not sharingor teaching, they're learning anyway.
So they're learning by osmosis, either thepositive or negative traits around money.
Everybody has a money storyor unconscious money mind of
like how you react to things.
So when I was at United Capital, wehad this thing called The Money Mind.
(11:30):
It was like a game.
And, we were at that time veryinto gamification of money, which
by the way, everybody loves.
And, everybody loves quizzes.
Everybody loves to findout about themselves.
Everybody wants to know why they dowhat they do or their unconscious
or subconscious response to money.
And so we actually wound up puttingpeople in three different buckets.
(11:51):
So you would either fear, and that'swhat unconsciously drove your decisions.
You were commitment, meaningyou are putting others before
yourself, or you were happinessand you are pretty much a spender.
So it's interesting how most peoplefall into those three buckets.
Yeah.
And so Cary, you were saying how openyour dad was sharing his net worth and
(12:12):
all that, and it was back in the eighties?
So, we know money is taboo, and so I thinkit's so cool that that was happening,
and which was the reason why I was justso fascinated with you because you are
kind of doing the same thing, just thatraw transparency with your clients.
I've been in the financial planningworld, not quite as long as you, but
being in that space, these professionals,CFPs, financial planners, they don't
(12:35):
share what their money looks like.
They don't share their debt, they don'tshare their investments, they don't
share taxes or any of that, but you do.
Please tell us how you interactwith your clients and build
that trust by being transparent.
So it's interesting because think aboutit, if somebody's coming to you and
they're literally laying their cards onthe table and showing you everything.
(12:59):
I could not feel comfortable toturn around and not show mine.
And also, they need to know they'reworking with somebody who's made
it, who's already a success, whocan retire anytime she wants.
So the first thing I dois show them my portfolio.
This is what I have, this is what I make.
And guess what?
I make more money from my portfoliothan I do from my day job.
(13:22):
And guess what?
When that happens, you made it.
You are beyond the success and obviouslythat's not everybody's life goal,
but that is certainly an incrediblegoal to have if you're making more
money from your passive job thanyou do from your active job, right?
And so I show them my portfolio,because I say I'm gonna invest your
(13:43):
portfolio like I invest my portfolio.
We are let's say similar age and similarincome and similar net worth I'm gonna
do for you what I do for myself and ofcourse what Human would not want that
Yeah, so what else are yousharing with them, your clients,
Anything they ask me.
Probably too much 'causeI'm an oversharer.
(14:05):
But my clients have beenthrough a lot with me.
They've been through a terrible divorce.
They've been throughmultiple changes in firms.
I mean multiple I don't know if you guysknow this, but I did move my clients
and my firm and everything four timesin five years with all of my clients.
(14:29):
They all stuck with you.
They all stuck with me.
And, and the reason being isbecause they know why we were
going through these transitions.
The first reason is because mycompany, which I was a partner
with, got sold to Goldman Sachstransition one, or two really?
Because I was at United Capital andthen we got sold to Goldman Sachs,
which I had no say in the matter.
(14:50):
Goldman Sachs was not agood experience for me.
It was actually the worst experienceworking for a firm that I've
ever had in my entire career.
I write about it in my new book.
It's in chapter one.
In my story.
It's an incredibly terrible storyabout what the worst things that
could happen to you at a jobhappened to me at Goldman Sachs.
(15:14):
It's so interesting because hereI was, a Women in Wealth Advocate
and well known in the profession.
I had influence.
I had actually by the time in 2019when we got sold to Goldman Sachs, I
was ranked actually number four in thecountry on the Investopedia list and the
number one woman in the United Statesin 2019 when we got sold to Goldman.
(15:37):
And I was treated unfairly and itwas a terrible experience for me.
I could not hold myself out asa financial advisor or planner.
I could not speak, I could notwrite, I could not go on tv,
I could not do social media.
Which was like a huge part of who Iam, my identity, how I get clients,
(15:59):
and I couldn't do any of that.
And so it was just ahundred percent not a fit.
The problem was I couldn'tget outta my contract.
And so that's another whole story whereI spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
with attorneys to try to get out.
I even offered them money to buy mybusiness back, and they originally
(16:20):
said yes, and then they reneged on me.
So dozens of guys got to buytheir businesses back before
me and a few guys after me.
And I'm the only one they saidno to, and I'm the only woman,
Wow.
So it sounds like to me, they werekeeping you from doing the things that
you did best, but you were bound tothis contract, and there were other
(16:40):
people in your same situation that weremale that they did allow and you were
not able to, so do you think you wereexperiencing some discrimination there?
So I believe I was, I do not have alawsuit or do not have an attorney.
I literally walked away.
I had to quit and run out my non-compete.
It was the only way I could leave.
(17:01):
Otherwise I would've been there forthe rest of my life until they sold the
firm for pennies on the dollar, whichis another story at the end of the day.
Do you know that story?
No.
We love to hear all your stories.
Okay, this is an interesting story.
So, when United Capital was sold toGoldman, it was sold for $750 million
dollars for Goldman to have their own RIA.
(17:22):
And then they pretty much ran it intothe ground because they were doing all
the wrong things because they didn'tknow how to communicate to clients, and
they didn't know how to treat employees.
And it just was a very,very difficult experience.
I'm an entrepreneur.
I created my business from scratch.
All my clients are mine,they're self sourced.
They come to me because of me,not because of the firm name.
(17:45):
Goldman is the complete opposite.
Goldman's clients come to Goldmanonly because of their name.
So they want you to be literallyan interchangeable widget.
So you are like, not even likea human being, like you are
just a placeholder that can becompletely switched out at any time.
And so that wasn't gonna workwith me or my clients because
(18:07):
they weren't there for the name.
We were there because we gotsold and we had no choice.
And so I had no say in thematter of when we were sold.
So when I had to quit and run outmy non-compete, that's what I did.
And then that was in 2022.
2023 happens.
(18:27):
Here we are a year or so after I left.
Goldman announces that they'reselling United Capital and they sold
United Capital for take a guess.
By the way, I was right about everything.
So it feels really good.
So they paid 750, take aguess what they sold it for?
50 million dollars.
You are so close.
A hundred million.
(18:48):
They took a $650 millionloss because that's how much
they destroyed the company.
Yeah, it must be.
So what's the right way to do it?
You've been through somany different models.
You've been small, you've beenmedium, you've been big, you've
been international, and yourclients have stayed with you.
What's the model they like best thatfits you, what's the model that maybe
(19:09):
are the average Joe American shouldbe looking for since you've learned
so much about how not to do it?
So I love, and this is me personally,I love a national fee only RIA.
Registered Investment Advisory firm.
Now, the issue with that isthey're not household names, so
it's not like they're easy to findbecause they're not the big firms.
(19:32):
They're not the MorganStanley's, the Edward Jones.
They're not the big ones.
The big ones are potentially notfiduciaries, which is, do we wanna go
down that road and talk about that?
Sure.
I feel like the term fiduciaryis thrown all around.
Why don't you give us some clarityaround what that is and what it means
to someone in our audience that mightbe looking for a planner themselves.
(19:55):
Sure.
So I always believe that if you're goingto work with a planner, in both cases,
one, they should be board certified.
So that's a CFP.
And right now in the United Statesthere's a hundred thousand of us.
When I started 20 yearsago, there was 40,000.
So we've certainly grown.
The numbers are incredibly high.
(20:15):
A hundred thousand is a great numberand it's continuing to grow from there.
So really fantastic.
We have a hundred thousand boardcertified, and I always say it's
like a doctor or an attorney.
Why would you not wanna work withsomebody who's board certified?
Like it's the next level up.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
Second thing is, I believe as afiduciary, and what that term means
(20:36):
is that any advice that you are givenis in the best interest of the client.
If it's not in the best interest ofthe client, then you can be sued.
And so the client is always on the sameside of the table as the advisor, and
they're not selling them products ormaking commission, or it's also called fee
(20:57):
only, that's another way to look at it.
All the advice I'm giving my clientsis in the client's best interest,
and they never have to worry becausethere's no conflict of interest.
So you're taking theconflicts of interest out.
So if I'm offering a product,it's because I think it's the best
product on the market and I'm onlygetting paid from the client, not
from the product that I'm offering.
(21:20):
So Cary, with all this background,all this experience, and we really
wanted to get to know you first.
So thank you so much for that.
So why do you believe that womenneed a different approach when
it comes to financial planningversus the way men look at things?
That's a big long answer, so I'mgoing to hopefully not take up the
whole rest of the time, but, okay.
(21:41):
So let's start with first this industrywealth management was created by men for
men, and that's okay because guess what?
That's what it was.
So we have , 80% of planners aremen and in general 80% of the
clients were men and you had, asmaller number of women clients.
(22:02):
And then my industry only looks at womenin two categories, divorced or widowed.
Women are much more thandivorced or widowed.
Women are a whole life cycle of events,and we're not just divorced or widowed.
So, that's the first issue.
Then we also have the fact that everystudy on the planet shows that women
(22:24):
are not being served by this industry.
So, and let me give you somestats on that and why I say that.
So the first one isthat they say 70 to 90%.
So we'll split the difference and say80% of females fire their advisor after
their husband dies, because guess what?
They're not being served by that advisor.
(22:44):
They're either being overlooked.
Not spoken to, not asked what they want.
Jargon-ed.
Not even included in the meetings.
Sometimes they don't even make eyecontact, in the middle of the meetings.
So that's a stat that's been around for areally long time and it has not changed.
So then there was a fantastic studythat was done by Harvard in 2009
(23:08):
that said, financial services isthe least sympathetic industry
to women and the one that has themost to gain if they get it right.
Should we talk about the greatwealth transfer and the shift?
That's actually one of the main reasonswe're here today, because that's
what you talk about in your book.
And men, pay attention to what we're gonnasay next because this involves you too.
(23:28):
So this is the most incredible thing.
So now I have been talking about the GreatWealth Transfer for over a decade, and
we are now five short years away from it.
So we've known about it for 10, 15years, but now we're five years away.
So by 2030.
(23:50):
Women are gonna control in the UnitedStates, two thirds of the nation's
wealth, which is $30 trillion witha T, not a B, and which is the same
as the GDP of the United States.
Just to put it in context, right?
So this has never happenedbefore in history.
Women right now currently controlone third of the nation's wealth.
(24:13):
So it's getting set to doublein the next five years.
And so the first questionI always get is, why.
And so let me talk about why that ishappening, because there's a lot of
factors converging at the same time.
And so McKinsey did the study on this.
Over a decade ago with allthese things coming into play.
(24:35):
So these are the differentstats of why this is happening.
So one is women's longevity.
Women live five to sevenyears longer than men.
Therefore, women are going to beinheriting the great wealth from spouses,
from parents, from the baby boomers.
(24:56):
All of this is happeningover the next five years.
That's number one.
Number two, gray divorce women over50 getting divorced is the numbers are
going through the roof, and those womenare walking away with a lot of money.
Then we have women startingbusinesses faster than men.
So women entrepreneurs are a forceto be reckoned with, and it's
(25:19):
not slowing down anytime soon.
And women do it out ofnecessity because they just.
Can't find something else and theycreate these incredible companies.
Then the fourth one, which is also oneof my favorites, is that for the first
time in history, women will be primarybreadwinners in the United States, which
is an incredibly stark contrast fromthe 1950s where women were less than 5%
(25:45):
of breadwinners in the United States.
And they were only because theywere widows or single women.
And on top of that, Cary.
live a lot longer.
They have a longer life expectancy.
So, that factored in, there's areason for planners especially to
recognize how important it is tounderstand women, and that's part
(26:06):
of what we're trying to do today.
And that's, mainly what you've beentrying to do since the days of your dad.
Well, there's a funny analogy here toobecause this is all about lady splaining
in a way, instead of mansplaining money.
And you do a good job because men,as Jackie has said before, and we had
a lot of shows on asset classes andasset allocation, and men just love to
talk about asset allocation and womendon't necessarily understand it or
(26:29):
want to talk about it, but you wrotean article explaining to women what
asset allocation or asset classes were.
Can you tell us what you did thereto bring that message across?
It's one of my absolute favorites.
When I wrote it, it went viral, soI know it reached a lot of women.
I compared asset classes to shoes.
And I went through every single assetclass and compared it to a pair of
(26:52):
shoes in your closet and why youwould wear it, and why you would take
it out and why you would need it.
And I got so many women reachingout to me, even strangers that said,
I never understood this before.
Why didn't anybody everexplain it to me this way?
And I said, it's just a different analogy.
Our industry is very male, so it's a lotof sports analogies, a lot of beating
(27:16):
the S&P 500, which really does notresonate with women in my entire career.
I have never had a woman askme, can we beat the S&P 500?
Like, it never happens.
She wants to know, is she gonna be okay?
Is she gonna be a bag lady?
Is she gonna run outta money?
What she loses sleep overat night is not that.
I'm not the only one who comes upwith these amazing women analogies.
(27:38):
I just did a CFP board call with myfriend Elaine King, who's also a CFP
board ambassador, and she uses recipesand spices to explain asset classes.
When women share their voice, they areable to present a different picture.
And I don't think it's thatdifficult, but when you start
(27:59):
using an analogy that someone's notinterested in, you just lose them.
So tell us about the shoes analogy.
I heard that ESG fundsare like Birkenstocks.
Is that correct?
That's right.
That's what I compared them to.
What is small cap value then?
Is it stilettos?
I gotta go look back at thething, but I think you're right.
High risk, high reward.
Yes.
Yes.
Then your everyday pumps mustbe V-T-S-A-X or something.
(28:21):
So my everyday pumps are S&P 500.
And then I've got my Gucciloafers, our muni bonds.
There's all reasons for everyone of them to be something.
My kitten heels are, I think oh mygosh, I can't remember what I put kitten
heels as I think that they're mid-caps.
Every single shoe is adifferent asset class.
I got REITs, I havecommodities, I have everything.
(28:42):
I have everything in there.
And you can't wear pumps everyday, and you can't survive
in stilettos by themselves.
And if you just have one pairof shoes, it might wear out.
So you need to have severaldifferent pairs of shoes for every
occasion, for all weather, portfolioinvesting and diversification.
Right.
Yes.
And actually sneakers, whicheverybody has is my cash.
How you pay for things.
(29:03):
everybody's got sneakers.
So Cary, did you send us thatarticle or that post that you wrote?
We gotta share that.
It's on LinkedIn and it's also onmy website, but I will absolutely
a hundred percent get it to you.
So what did the men think of the article?
You wrote it for women, but didthe men get anything out of it too?
You know what the men told me?
I learned about shoes.
That's what I was told,
(29:25):
It just didn't resonate with them.
It goes to show you that communicationis really about listening and
about envisioning how the person'sgoing to receive a message,
and you wanna get it across.
It's not mansplaining.
I'm called lecture daddy in my familybecause I would just say how I viewed
it to my kids and they're like, dad,go talk to your podcast microphone.
(29:45):
Go talk to your Facebook group,because that's not resonating with me.
It's waiting for their ears toopen and then finding the words
that get the message across soyou can move on to the next thing.
Exactly.
And also, you know what I always say,that men are from Mars, women are from
Venus type thing, from back in the day?
We do speak different languages,so why wouldn't we speak different
(30:06):
languages when it comes to money too?
We hear things different.
We process things different.
On the brain side, women have more verbal.
They have verbal hemispheres onthe left and the right brain.
So, which is why women wanna talkmore and that's part of who we are.
And it's interesting because I alsosay to men that women as clients, for
(30:28):
example, if women are gonna be yourfuture client, which I wanna talk about
that for a second too because Suruli,which is another great research company,
came out with a study this year, at thebeginning of this year, February of 2025.
And they said, obviously, again,saying that women are the future
wealth management clients.
(30:48):
But they said that firms that get thisright with women will be positioned
for decades to come, like decades.
Get it right now and you aregonna have your clients for life.
But I always say, so for me, my practiceis 80% women and 20% couples, with the
(31:09):
woman being the primary breadwinner inthe relationship, in almost every case.
I probably have two clients that themale was the primary breadwinner,
one's retired and one's still working.
But in general, I am reverse whatevery other financial planner is.
So when I tell a, a room offinancial planners, which are 80%
men, that I have 80% female clients,they fall out of their chair.
(31:32):
They literally can't believe it.
And then when I tell them thatthey're bread-winning women that
make over a million dollars a year,they also fall out of their chair
because it's like an urban myth.
Do these people even exist?
It's kind of funny to me becauseI'm like, well, obviously
that's not your target market.
That's not who you're going after,that's not who you're speaking to.
You're getting your clients the oldfashioned way, the way guys got 'em either
(31:56):
doing seminars or on the golf course.
Women don't do that.
We don't get clients that way.
We do it very differently.
So, my whole career have heldmyself out as an advocate for women
and I've practiced what I preach.
And so I have attracted thewomen to me who mirror myself.
And they say that over timeyou mirror your clients.
(32:20):
I don't know if that happens in thedoctor world, but it definitely happens
in the financial planning world.
And I just woke up one day and I was like,wow, I am the exact same as my clients.
Well, you're not gonna go to thedoctor who's obese and smokes.
Things have changed.
This is the growth market.
This is where men, if it's 80% ofmen in the industry, they've got
to learn how to talk to women.
This is the age old problem,and now it's about money, which
(32:42):
makes it even more important.
Right?
So what is the industry doingabout helping men take care
of this growth market of womenwho are managing the wealth?
Since there's a disconnectnow with not speaking the
language that they want to hear.
Honestly, absolutely nothing.
That's the problem.
That's a generalization.
However, I'm sure at some firms they'redoing some types of things, but that
(33:07):
is literally why I wrote the book.
I wrote the book to be the playbook.
I'm hoping that I get a workbook to comewith this because I've been told that
advisors are going through entire legalpads, taking notes from the book of stuff
to do to address this market and go afterthis market and treat this market right.
So I'm super excited because I'mhoping that this is the start of
(33:30):
a snowball to change the industry.
That's why I wrote it.
I think that it will, and it bringsme back to the question of what
is it that women are looking for?
Let's say, it doesn't even have tobe a divorced person or a widow.
Often they are, but just the averagewoman when they are thinking,
I need a financial planner.
(33:51):
I need a fiduciary, somebody that is gonnabe comprehensive to help me from A to Z.
What qualities are they lookingfor when they're trying to
find a planner to work with?
I believe that they are lookingfor empathy, trust, education.
They feel-in-their-gutcomfortable with that person and
not judged or talked down to.
(34:13):
When I talk to my clients,I'm never dumbing it down.
I'm changing the language.
I'm never dumbing it down.
Women are incredibly capable women.
Are smart, are great planners.
Like women plan vacations.
They plan weddings, they plan parties.
They plan a lot of great things, butthey don't necessarily wake up and
say, I wanna plan my retirement today.
(34:35):
Usually by the time I get a client, it'ssome sort of catastrophe type of thing.
Like death, divorce, disability, job loss.
Something happens and then they're like,okay, now I need professional help.
So I want to get to the pointwhere women are just saying, I
think I need a financial planner.
Like I need a roadmap.
(34:56):
Because I always say, how are yougonna get to retirement without a plan?
It's like driving without directions.
So I think everybody needs one.
Yeah.
And do you think the CFP industry andthe educational models for educating
A CFP are addressing this problem?
I do.
Well, so there's nothing specificto women in the curriculum for
(35:18):
the CFPI would love there to be,they're right this moment in time.
There isn't.
However, our current CFP boardchair is a woman, and our next
CFP board chair is a woman.
And I know that women's research and womengetting more women into the profession
and mentorship and all of that stuffis very important to the CFP board.
(35:42):
We also have the Center for FinancialPlanning, which is the nonprofit arm of
the CFP Board, which I'm involved in.
We do scholarships for women anda whole bunch of other stuff.
And also African American.
We have lots and lots of stuff.
The African American are like, what?
It's 3%.
Two.
Oh.
So we think it's bad with women, it'seven worse with African American as well.
(36:03):
So we know that we have to get to paritywith what the United States looks like.
So if 50% women, we have to be 50% women.
If we're 45%, what is thenumber for African American?
I wanna say 16%.
We need to get to that number.
We eventually need to be mirroringexactly what the United States looks like.
(36:26):
But we are so far from it, andthat's what we've been working on
with the nonprofit arm, which isthe Center for Financial Planning.
So, are we addressing it?
We're trying.
It's such a big, big goal and it'sso difficult to move the needle.
It's not like people have not been trying,people have been trying for decades.
(36:47):
It's just not happening fast enough.
It's like moving an ocean liner, I guess.
But I am part of it.
So next week I'm going with the CFP boardand a couple of influential women and
a couple of influential nonprofits, andwe're all meeting in New York City to
solve this issue and really bring actionitems to fruition to move this needle
(37:11):
that has been so difficult to move.
And so I'm not giving up 'cause it'smy life's goal and I'm really hoping
that it happens in my lifetime.
Oh, I think it absolutely can.
I think we can speed this up 'cause wehave models like medicine where things
have evolved from the days of quacksto subspecialties and we now see 51,
52% of women are in med school andthey're not taking over the profession.
(37:35):
But there is parity.
It's not a male dominated field anymore.
This is what's happening to thefinancial services industry as well.
And things move slowly.
We men have to, leave room for womento do what they are potentially better
at doing than we are and embrace that.
Right.
Exactly.
It's interesting because like when Iwrote this book, I wrote it for the
(37:57):
profession to make it female friendly,the client experience better for the
female client and also better for womenwho wanna come into the profession.
It was like a dual focus.
I feel like we are moving towardsthat goal but we are not there.
You know how you said it's parity now?
We are really far from parity,so we have to really reach young
(38:20):
people to understand like, sincethe profession is only 50 years old
and it's new, we need to reach younggirls and girls in elementary school.
Like if you ask them,do you wanna be a CFP?
They don't even know whatyou're talking about.
Well, that's a great analogy.
Because are you gonna be a doctor, alawyer, accountant, or a business person?
(38:41):
And what they don't realize is thefamily practitioner of finance is the
CFP that's their general practitionerthat helps you with all things financial
and it's gotten so complicated thatyou do need a translator and a helper
and 90% of the nation need access toit financially as well, for people
to have less means and less resourcesas opposed to the high hurdle of an a
minimum of 500,000 or something like that.
(39:02):
That's one of the things that preventspeople from accessing that as a
profession is like, okay, I'm nevergonna have the money to engage with one.
And if it's fee for service, when you havelower levels of income, we've had Abundo
wealth in the show where they're doing itas a subscription model for $189 a month.
Just like concierge medicine.
Help as you need it.
And so I think the models are changing,things are moving, and this snowball will
(39:26):
roll downhill with people like yourselvesthat are educating us that, we need
to talk about a CFP as a profession inthe same sentence as the one of being
you wanna be a doctor when you grow up?
Well, you wanna be a CFP when you grow up?
Let's talk to those young girls.
Let's talk to those young boys and havethem work together to find this new hybrid
model that serves men and women, equally.
(39:47):
I believe that.
If possible, because I've seen it acouple of times where the employer
takes money from their EAP programand they give it to their employees
to pay for financial planning.
And I think that's an incrediblemodel if you could get it.
I'm Darden Foods paid fortheir executives' financial
(40:07):
plans or line workers.
I don't know what their cutoff was,but they gave a certain amount per
year for financial planning advice.
I think that's anincredible employee benefit.
Yeah, and I'm seeing thatmore and more Cary as well.
And even some smaller companiesthat might not have so much in the
budget, they are doing more financialeducation, financial wellness.
(40:28):
I even have gone into companies wherewe're doing that or I collaborate
with other, financial educationprofessionals and we go in and
we help educate their employees.
I am starting to see that.
Back to the young girls and trying toteach them when they're in elementary
school, when they're in middle school.
(40:49):
You attended, I don't know how long agothis was, but a Girl Scout conference
where you were representing the financialplanning industry for young girls.
Tell us about that.
Oh my God, it was so incredible.
It was in Orlando.
It was the National GirlScout Convention Conference.
It was 2022 and it was one ofthe most impactful couple of
(41:10):
days I had in my entire career.
And I wrote a blog afterwards thatthe CFP board distributed to all
the professionals so I could sharewhat happened with everybody.
And it was so incredibly impactful becausethere was thousands of girls there.
And not only did we teach themwhat a CFP was, but we played a
(41:31):
game with the girls where we tookthem through how do you retire?
And their first thing was, do you wannago to college or not go to college?
And everybody said, I wanna go to college.
And then we gave them a hundredthousand dollars debt card.
And they're like, oh, now Idon't wanna go to college.
And I'm like, too bad.
You already picked it.
You can't change it.
So now you gotta work off that debt.
We taught 'em all these lessonsgoing through the game, and then
(41:54):
they got to retirement at the end.
And then we had like future CFPselfie stations and future CFP
tattoos that we gave everybody.
And I actually have so many of themthat I give them out at Halloween.
So my neighborhood kidsget 'em all the time.
I love it.
I can imagine it's like go toCary's house for Halloween.
You're making a difference.
(42:14):
I would've never thought the Girl Scouts,but this is where they start forming
their interests, their aspirations, theirdreams, and it's like, why not start that
early with some age appropriate stuff?
So, kudos for you forgetting with the girls.
It was incredible.
Think about it, the girls were agefive through 18 and it's not like
they don't know about financialliteracy because they have a financial
(42:36):
literacy badge in the Girl Scouts.
But they still didn't know what a CFP was.
Things are changing there, but you've alsobeen to meetings where you've asked women
to raise their hand and saying, what doyou think of the term is a man the plan?
And a lot of women wouldsay that is the plan still.
And in these daysmarriage is delayed later.
Women are accumulatingassets prior to marriage.
(42:57):
And then you get into a relationship.
Are you a believer inyours, mine, and ours.
And how do women keep their ownfinancial power from being drained
away and abdicating to the man orother partner in the relationship?
How do you keep it equal as you grow amarriage like you're growing a business?
So, it is very challenging.
I believe in full disclosure, andI believe that, with your spouse,
(43:21):
you should be financially naked.
Meaning, all the debts in the closet orall the bad stuff, all the good stuff.
You have to be on the same page.
'Cause I always say, when you're gettingmarried to somebody, you're not just
marrying them, you're marrying theirmoney and their money personality
and are you guys on the same page?
Are you both spenders?
Are you both savers?
Your thoughts on, life?
Are you on the same page?
(43:41):
Do you have the same dreamsand goals and things like that?
So I believe that's a great timeto sit with a financial planner,
if you haven't, it's a great step.
Somebody, starting out in their livesto get on the same page financially.
So, I don't know if you know this,but, so I was in a terrible marriage
and terrible, terrible marriage.
(44:03):
I married Mr. Wrong in my thirties andI wound up where he committed financial
infidelity, meaning he hid assets from me.
His money was neveravailable to pay bills.
He only used my money to pay bills.
I was on the mortgage.
He was not on the mortgage.
(44:23):
That's a whole other long story.
I talk about it in my first book actually,and I talk a little bit about it in my
second book, but mainly in my first book.
So what I always say, if it couldhappen to me, as smart as I am about
money and as successful as I am,it can happen to anyone, any woman
on the planet this can happen to.
So I always want women to havetheir own money, their own job,
(44:47):
their own credit score, theirown credit, and their own stuff.
And so even like stay athome moms, for example.
My daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom.
And I always say a stay-at-homemom is at risk because guess what?
You just gave up your career and maybe15 years down the road you get divorced.
(45:07):
Now you have to start over from scratchwithout having your working all that time.
And guess what?
He's building his 401k.
He's building this.
So I always say no matter what,you should at least be getting
a spousal IRA every single year.
Even if you're not working.
You should be putting it in yourname so you could build some
of your assets in your name.
(45:28):
Cary, can you explain tous what a spousal IRA is?
Sure.
So most people they work, they can putmoney in an IRA, which is a regular
Individual Retirement Account, meaningit's in your name and your name only.
It's not a joint asset, it's yours.
You can have a beneficiary on it,but it's a hundred percent yours.
So if you are a stay at home mom, youcan get a spousal IRA that's deductible
(45:54):
off your tax return in your name alone,the husband, or wherever you have to
just pull it from your existing assets.
It's then an asset that's in your name.
So it's just like a regular IRA,but it's called a spousal IRA.
Meaning you didn't work, but youcan still take that tax deduction.
So are you a believer in blendedfinances or do you maintain your own
(46:14):
accounts and put 'em in a joint accountin order to pay your joint bills?
Do you let it be a little more complexso you can keep the money separate or
does it really matter when you're marriedanyway and things get split in divorce?
Right.
So I think it depends on thesituation and it depends on the
couple, and it depends on, I don'tthink there's any right or wrong way.
I think it really depends.
So for me my husband and I paybills from a joint account.
(46:38):
We both have our own investment accountswhere we're each other's beneficiaries.
And I can log in and see his,he can log in and see mine.
We show each other on a daily basis.
This is what I'm up, this is what I'm up.
And it is all pulled togethertechnically anyway because it's one pot.
I don't think there is any right or wrong.
I think it's whatever youfeel comfortable with.
I have my sister and my brother-in-law,they both work they keep all of their
(47:02):
money separate because that's what worksfor them, and no judgment whatsoever.
They pay their bills and, onepays for stuff out of one account.
They split up who's paying what,and then the other one pays
for stuff out of their account.
And that's the way it works for them.
And Cary, I don't know if youget asked this all the time, and
this is why there is a need formore women, but I have my CFP.
I have so many people, women askingme, can you refer me to a woman CFP?
(47:26):
Women are specifically looking towork with a woman, so that's part of
the reason why the problem kind ofneeds to be solved as well, because
that's what people are asking for.
Exactly.
And there's literally not enough of us togo around, that is actually the problem.
Because if every woman wants to workwith a woman, we don't have enough.
We literally don't have enough.
(47:47):
Now what's interesting is, in mycareer, I have had a client of mine,
a woman who referred me to anotherwoman, a friend of hers, and she
said to me, I would never work with awoman 'cause a woman can't take care
of my money as good as a man can.
This brings up the term you talk about,and I wanna probably try and close out
the show with talking about biases.
(48:07):
You talk a lot about extrinsicand intrinsic biases, and
this is where that comes from.
Now you've got it in reverse.
You don't want your man to takecare of your money necessarily when
you're married, but when you haveyour own money, you don't trust a
woman to take care of it anymore.
You need a male CFP.
How?
Why is this?
I think it's, honestly, it'sunconscious bias, implicit bias.
It's generational bias.
(48:28):
It's been around forever.
You gotta remember where we came from.
So in my book, I actually have twochapters that are very interesting
related to this that are not eventhe unconscious bias chapters,
which is another whole story.
But I have the history of.
Women and money, and I have thehistory of female breadwinners.
So you have to see where wecame from to why some of those
(48:52):
things are still around today.
And it's really just because it'snot that long ago in the 1950s
where women were home taking careof their husbands and making sure
the kids were quiet and played nice.
Don't get a hair out of place becauseI have to look like June Cleaver when
my husband comes home and take offhis slippers and give him a drink.
(49:12):
That's not that far ago.
I mean, it's like almost in my lifetime.
So we are not that far from that.
So we've come a long waybaby, but not really.
So I think that that's part of the issue.
Yeah.
So tell us the name of the bookagain, and when was it released?
It was very recent.
Yes, two and a half weeks ago.
(49:33):
Very, very new.
And it's called Women in Wealth,A Playbook to Empower Clients
and Unlock Their Fortune.
And so I originally wrote this formen, financial advisors, but however,
women financial advisors are goingcrazy over it and flocking to it.
And then women in general aregoing crazy and flocking to it.
(49:54):
So I think I have like threedifferent audiences for this book.
Women who just wanna understandwhat a relationship with a
financial planner looks like.
The questions to askwhat it should look like.
If it's not like this, thenyou gotta get another one.
It's funny Cary Hannon from Yahoo Financedid a review on the book and she said
that, people should look at this and say,if that's what it looks like, if mine
(50:18):
doesn't look like that, I need to get anew financial advisor, or at least start
from scratch and get somebody like this.
Yeah, you're pulling back the curtain.
You're uniquely poised to look at bothsides of the curtain where you've got
the client facing side of you and thenthe professional industry side of you.
So a book like this where it says womenin the title, men might be turned off,
(50:38):
but I want to read this because thisis only good for my marriage, this is
only good for my understanding of womenin general, which is good for my life.
And we think, oh, that's a woman's book.
No it's not.
I guarantee you that men get more out ofthis than your women clients probably do.
I totally agree with you.
So the initial title, by the wayof the book, Wiley had changed it.
The original title of the bookwas Compel Her, Don't Sell Her.
(51:02):
And I think that that was alittle bit more male and then they
changed it to Women and Wealth.
And I'm like, ooh, can't wego back to the old title.
And they were like, no,this is the new title.
And I was like, I feel likeit's gonna resonate more
with women and less with men.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't know.
You tell me.
Well, I'm gonna pick up a copyand read it because we've had
other authors like Janine Firpo.
(51:23):
We've gotta get you in touch withher because she's all about activate
your money as a woman and vote yourvalues, because women are much more
inclined to believe in values alignedwith money, and she wants you to make
the world a better place by puttingyour money where your values are.
And that's what you're about too.
So we'll try and get you togetherwith her so the two of you can
connect and compound your efforts.
(51:43):
I
yeah.
So Cary, the book is available,it's called Women and Wealth
everywhere books are sold, right?
So, if someone wanted to find out moreabout you, read more about what you're
doing where's the best place to do that?
So my website is carycarbonaro.com.
You can also find me on allsocial media channels, LinkedIn,
Facebook, Instagram, X?
I still call it Twitter.
(52:04):
And I'm the only carry Carbonaro, soI'm really easy to find and pretty
much everything is just under my name.
We can't forget, Jackie, that we're allabout late starters here and Cary is our
age and uniquely poised to maybe give usa tip or two about should late starters
look for in this future of women andmoney and money management and advisories?
(52:25):
Is there any tips you have for ouraudience that are maybe a little
bit lost in looking for a home base?
So I would say, first of allit's never too late, right?
If you are breathing and livingand working, it's not too late.
Okay?
And the power of compounding interestis the eighth wonder of the world.
So you just have to figure out the numbersand then figure out how to get there.
(52:48):
Like, again, everybody needs a plan.
You can't drive without a map.
So all you need to do is figureout what you need to do to make
your dream come true of retirementor whatever your dream is.
I mean, retirement is a great dream.
Everybody wants it.
The original three-legged stool was socialsecurity, pension and outside assets.
(53:10):
And that was how you were gonna get there.
Well, pensions almost don't exist anymore.
Such a small percentage of theUnited States has pensions.
So now that onus is on you tomake up that difference, 'cause
social security is still onlyabout 25% of your retirement needs.
So you need to fill 75%with your own assets, either
(53:32):
retirement or after tax assets.
And so I just believe everybodycan do it and you just need a
plan to tell you what to do.
Well, we really appreciate your comingon and speaking with our audience
about your very powerful message.
You're a very energetic person.
I look forward to reading your book.
I know I will recommendit to women in my life.
(53:53):
My nieces, they're graduating in the nearfuture, and maybe I'll have to give them
your book as well because Jackie's bookis a book I'm giving them for graduation.
He better.
Alright, Jackie, thanksfor being here today.
Cary, it's wonderful to meet you.
I look forward to meeting you in person.
And guys, we'll see you nextweek on Catching Up to Fi.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.