September 22, 2023 • 36 mins
Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri, upholds high academic values while combining Christian faith with every aspect of life. In this first of seven episodes in the "Evangel University Voices" series, the university's outgoing president, Dr. Carol Taylor, talks with host Chris Johnson about the unfolding of her career path, which has spanned 45 years. She also shares what God is doing among students now in the Evangel community and looks to the future of Christian higher education. She is inspired by Evangel students' "willingness to learn" and "heart to serve."
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(00:00):
The way we welcome new students to our campus is actually the founder of Convoy of Hope
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is an alum of Evangel and they're based here in Springfield.
So on Friday when the students, new students move into the door on Saturday morning while
a group of us are meeting with their parents to reassure them it's okay, you can leave
them here, they're going to be fine, you have a box of tissues.
What we do with the students is we give them a Convoy of Hope t-shirt and we send them
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out in the city to do service projects.
So we say not only it serves a core value of the institution, here's what it looks
like lived out.
This is Charisma Connection on the Charisma Podcast Network.
I'm Chris Johnson.
Today we begin a seven part series on the work of Evangel University in Springfield,
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Missouri and perhaps I should say if you're from Missouri I think it's Missouri but we'll
get to that later.
But even if you're not looking to head to school yourself or if you don't have a child
entering higher education I think you'll be interested in our topic today as well as
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the various topics that we'll cover in this seven part series and those include mental
health, the pandemic and Bible literacy so quite a wide range of topics.
If you're not familiar with Evangel it's an accredited liberal arts university, has more
than 70 academic programs so very well established and it is affiliated with the assemblies of
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God but it has a wide range of students from different Christian denominational backgrounds
and they of course have a strong commitment to academics with a desire to combine Christian
faith with every aspect of life.
And we are privileged today to have the president of Evangel University with us Dr. Carol Taylor.
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She is actually the fourth president of the school and she's been there since 2013.
She is an alumna of Evangel and the assemblies of God Theological Seminary.
She also holds a doctorate from Florida State and we of course are sitting here in Lake
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Mary Florida right now so that's great.
And she has spent her life in key leadership roles in not only Christian education but
also public and private education.
Previous to her work with Evangel was the ninth president of Vanguard University in
Costa Mesa California and she held that position from 2009 to 2013.
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Before that she was even provost and vice president of academic affairs and before
that she worked for Biola University so she has lots and lots of experience and brought
all of that to her work at Evangel.
She's also an ordained minister with the assemblies of God.
So welcome to Charisma Connection Dr. Taylor.
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Well thank you.
It's great to be with you today.
Well I'm so glad to get a chance to get to know you and the work of Evangel and I understand
first of all that congratulations are in order that you have completed more than 45 years
of service in education which is wonderful and I'm sure you have many students and many
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colleagues who appreciate your work and just how you've poured into their lives over the
years.
Well you hope that's the case.
Yes, it's been an honor to serve here and at other institutions.
Yes, you have a wide range of experience which is just terrific and we only touched on part
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of it but today our topic is something that you are very familiar with yourself and that
is women in leadership and what you're doing at Evangel to promote that.
But first of all I want to say that the COVID pandemic has been quite the backdrop to your
expected retirement or tell us when you are going to retire.
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So actually just in another week at the end of this semester the original plan was last
summer and then COVID disrupted that as well as many other things.
It surely did.
Well we caught you just in time it sounds like.
Now what would you say in the last nine months of 2020 what would you say has been the most
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significant lesson you've learned?
Oh my there have been so many.
I would say no one in higher education today has navigated what we are all navigating with
COVID.
So you often hear the words unprecedented, uncharted and I think what we've done is you've
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taken everything you've learned across a lifetime and you just put it on steroids.
The other is I mean we talk about the importance of flexibility but if there has ever been
a season or a time when you make your best plans and then you throw them out the window
because everything has changed that's the season we've been living in.
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In fact I was thinking, in fact I've often quoted President Eisenhower when he talked
about preparing for battle he said in preparing for battle I've always found that plans are
useless but planning is indispensable.
So you make plans knowing full well that tomorrow you may get new information something else
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may happen and you're going to adjust those plans or throw them out all together and develop
a new plan.
So we also live by the model blessed are the flexible and I have often said this past
spring semester and over the summer and even this fall I'm almost convinced that that is
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a lost be attitude.
You know blessed are the flexible and you learn to embrace that and just roll with whatever
the day brings.
Boy that's so true.
I have some mission background myself and that is one thing that they tried to teach
us.
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That's right.
Yeah.
Well you also are the first woman to serve as the president of an Assemblies of God
college, university or seminary and as I mentioned well first at Vanguard University is where
you became the first woman president there and now the first woman president at Evangel.
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So the Assemblies of God has long championed women in leadership roles and ministry.
In words of encouragement would you offer young women who are exploring that kind of
ministry call today?
I would say don't give up.
Don't give up.
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You know so while the Assemblies of God has ordained women for you know historically
women were critical in the founding of the Assemblies of God but I've talked with enough
women at the seminary who are in ministry and perhaps working on a master's degree or
a de-men who get discouraged because the places where they feel called to serve may not be
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as welcoming to women even in the Assemblies of God and my encouragement to them is don't
give up.
The other encouragement that I would have is you have and here's the word flexible again.
You've got to be open to what may be a different journey in getting to the place where you
will serve.
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So if you think you're going to follow some smooth straight path I will do this and then
I will do that and I will progress in levels of leadership it may not happen that way at
all.
And so I think being open to whatever opportunity is in front of you with the prayerful consideration
God what are you asking me to do in this situation?
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We believe you know God can get you where he needs to get you but it may not be in your
timeline or in the way you would think.
And we have lots of biblical examples of that right?
Yes.
I mean so Joseph had this beautiful dream.
He had no idea what that dream would actually look like or that it would include slavery
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and imprisonment before he actually found himself in a place where you know not only
did his brothers bow down but he actually saved his entire nation.
And so I think we need to hold our dreams and our callings loosely and trust that the
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one who calls us has a way of writing the story he intends to write with our lives.
But don't lose heart, don't give up, continue to prepare and be available and God will do
what he intends to do with your life if you keep it surrendered to him.
Yes.
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I think the journey often takes a lot of twists and turns you know whether you're a woman
or a man.
Or you are.
Yes.
And you're right there's so many things that are unexpected and as you get a few years
on you and you look back in the rear view mirror and you see oh that particular job helped
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me with the current job that I'm in.
And it just kind of all gets woven together into that beautiful tapestry you hear about.
Right.
I mean it isn't the case.
It's a lot easier to make sense of the journey if you're looking back.
That's true.
And eventually you see oh it did kind of all fit together.
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Much harder if you're in the middle of it.
Yes.
Or if you're trying to look from where you are perhaps into something in the future.
But yeah.
Well Dr. Taylor people who know you well I understand know that you have a great passion
for service.
Service to one another and to the church.
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So where did your sense of contribution develop as you went along in your journey?
You know that so that's a I think it's a hard question.
I don't know and I don't know that anyone would point to a single moment in time.
Right.
It's more of this accumulation of life experiences and watching others and and being shaped over
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a lifetime.
I mean I was I was I was privileged to grow up in a Christian home and see people around
me in particular my own parents who were not ministers.
My father was a businessman but he lived a very generous life with with a commitment
of being of service.
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If there if there was a need and he could help meet the need he was there.
Never never preached it never really said now here's how you need to live it.
I just watched it in his life and then there were others that that influenced I think a
lot of it really began taking shape actually when I was an undergraduate student here in
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Evangelion and and the challenge was I remember being presented with the challenge of how
to how to hold your life.
And one image was as a blank legal contract and and the pages is blank and the challenges
say if you were to hold that up and say God you get to fill in this empty page any way
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you want.
And I'm signing my name while it is blank on the bottom with a commitment to say yes
to whatever it is you would call me to do.
And you know that's a lovely activity for an undergraduate student but then it's life
happens the tendency is we begin writing in conditions right.
So yeah I'll do this so long as I get XYZ.
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I'll go there if it meets these conditions.
And so I think that the challenge with with living a life with an I often refer to this
an unqualified yes is that we have to keep erasing the conditions that were tempted to
write in.
And so I think it's something that that develops over a lifetime.
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The other is you know at some point we realize that our best model for life as rich and wonderful
is all of the biblical stories are you know from Genesis all the way to Revelation.
But if we really want to know how to live well there's really one life that we need
to study and look at above all others and it's the life of Christ himself.
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And I often often think of the it's a very familiar verse in Matthew and I've been over
the last several years particularly drawn to the way it's written in the message where
and these are red letter words right.
So these are this is an invitation that we all have where Christ says are you tired are
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you worn out are you burned out on religion come to me get away with me and you'll rescue
recover your life.
I'll show you how to take a real rest and then this invitation walk with me work with
me watch how I do it learn the unforced rhythms of grace I won't lay anything heavy or real
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sitting on you keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly.
But I love the invitation when he says you want to know how to live a life of service
and in the most meaningful life of all watch how I do it.
And we have we have these beautiful gospels that give us this window into how he lived
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and served and and I think if we keep watching him and learning from him and accepting that
incredible invitation to get away with him and walk with him then then I think service
is just a natural outgrowth of living close to Christ.
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Mm hmm.
That's true.
Well part of your service has been in Christian higher education and you know are there exciting
things happening there what is the future and and what are the bright spots in the future
of Christian higher education.
Oh that's I mean that's a great question I you know you you often hear people talking
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about you know threats to Christian Christian higher education that we're living in a post
Christian world and they can paint a fairly dire picture.
I'm actually encouraged every day on campus as I meet with students who are passionate
about following Christ and pursuing their vocational calling as as a way of living as his presence
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in the world.
I look at where our graduates go I look at the fact that I mean we've got an outstanding
education department for example and before our students ever graduate they've got job
offers from all of the schools in the area here and they're they're they're among the
most desirable new teachers and and often become at a very high percentage rate teachers
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of the year and talking with with the school superintendent administrators and this applies
as well in in in the corporate sector where they love to hire our graduates and I think
this this is not just for evangel but for for those schools who have remained focused
on on cultivating men and women who are committed to living their lives and living out their
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vocational calling as the presence of Christ in the world.
And so how does that show up they may not talk about it as well we love that you're
committed Christians what they notice is is first of all that they're competent yes that
they've been adequately prepared either for graduate school or for for immediate employment
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the other is and I hear this repeatedly when I ask the question is there they have a willingness
to learn and a heart to serve that's a pretty powerful combination.
A willingness to learn and a heart to serve yes it certainly is.
Yeah and and I love hearing it because actually services one of the core values of of evangel
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and we have in fact the way we welcome new students to our campus is actually the the
founder of convoy of hope is an alum of evangel and they're based here in Springfield so on
Friday when the students new students move into the dorm on Saturday morning while a
group of us are meeting with their parents to reassure them it's okay you can leave them
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here they're going to be fine you have a box of tissues.
What we do with the students is we give them a convoy of hope t-shirt and we send them
out in the city to do service projects.
So we say not only is service a core value of the institution here's what it looks like
lived out and and so I think for Christian higher education the bright spot is is that
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the world desperately needs what we produce they may not describe it as we would describe
it we would say it's students living living as the presence of Christ the world may not
recognize it or put that label on it but but but there's a hunger there in a desire for
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for whether it's employees or men and women that can serve with that kind of heart and
and of course then comes the opportunity if you can serve and live that way to be a winsome
presence of Christ in the world and so whether whether that is is in church based ministry
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or on the mission field or it's in the marketplace in corporate America we are to live our lives
as the fragrance and aroma of Christ in the world and when you think about these desperate
times and and the contention and anger and and the world desperately needs the peace
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of Christ and and and that's what our schools produce men and women who reflect that in
the marketplace and in the churches and and it and I get inspired every day when I see
what our students are doing and the respect that they have in the community and and say
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we need to keep going well when I asked you this question about the bright spots of Christian
higher education I I never expected you to talk about the peace of Christ bringing that
to the community but oh don't we need it and if they if it comes from the students that's
just wonderful well you know I mean so if I could say a little more about that it it
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and I think it's especially as an undergraduate student you know we have no idea really what
God wants to do with our lives I mean even my own story I was an elementary education
major if you would have asked me when I was a senior about to graduate if I could imagine
one day coming back and serving my alma mater as president I would have howled I mean at
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that time I wasn't even thinking about graduate school okay I was just thinking about that
first teaching job and never imagined the the journey that that God had planned so one of
the things I asked alumni especially those alumni that are further down the road then
then our young fresh graduates did did you ever imagine the journey God would take you
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on and I'm tracking at a hundred percent of nope never imagined it or I knew it would
be business but I never imagined exactly you know how that journey would go and and I in
fact I just had a text message from he was a classmate of mine texted me this morning
he just recently retired but he came so give one moment for just a little yes but I think
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it illustrates this beautifully actually too so so when I was a student at evangel there
was a he's actually Armenian but came from came from Lebanon he was his family had had
fled the genocide in Turkey and and they had been they'd made their home in Beirut for
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some time and and they became friends with the missionary and the missionary said Sam
I think you need to go to college I think you should go to evangel then it was college
not university do you know where that is and Sam said no I've never heard of it he's well
it's in it's in Missouri do you know where that is no so the missionary opened the map
of the United States put it out on the table pointed he said it's right here in the middle
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Springfield Missouri right here in the middle and Sam said he looked at the map and he said
oh my goodness it's only two inches from Chicago I'll go there and and so that's literally
how he arrived on campus terrific soccer player but he had a dream and it was he wanted to
study law now eventually he did go on to law school and and and had a particular interest
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as perhaps wouldn't be surprising in immigration law and and actually became our nation's first
Armenian immigrant federal judge how about that and he actually shared that story with
me in his chambers and you want to guess what city he was in Chicago so he did get to Chicago
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but not quite the way he imagined and I said so Sam did you ever imagine when you're kicking
a soccer ball out on the field that this is where you would actually end up and the opportunity
that you would have to serve in such a significant place and his response is no not at all another
dear dear friend of mine he actually graduated he's actually older than me but graduated a
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bit before me and he was a pastor's kid and he ran track and I think was a business major
and joined the Navy after he graduated then she did an MBA and and would would would call
his father the pastor before every opportunity for maybe advancement or or another assignment
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and his father would always have the same answer his name was Vern Clark and and he said well
Vern you should pray about it and and consider if the Lord hasn't opened the door that you
should walk through so eventually it was you know dad they've offered me a ship captain
of a ship what do you think I should do well son you know you need to pray and and then
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it was wow dad they've offered me a fleet and then a day came when the call was dad they've
offered me the whole US Navy so Admiral Vern Clark became C&O which meant he got a lot of
the Marines with him as well but but I remember asking him because he was actually in that
role on 9 11 it was his section of the Pentagon that got hit that day oh my and I remember
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afterwards saying so Vern you know when you were running track and dating Connie and and
had some dream did you ever in your wildest imagination think that that dream would one
day place you in a particular office on a particular day because if ever our nation needed a competent
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leader who also knew how to pray at that time it it was it was you and you know of course
he said are you kidding I never I never imagined even being captain of a ship let alone C&O
of the of the Navy and and I think you know we just we can't see how what God may want
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to do with with dreams or callings that that we sense and so I think you know what plot
I was challenged with way back as an undergraduate student myself still holds true today and
at some point I think we begin to realize that in all of life there's really only one
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question that really matters once we've committed our life to Christ and that is God what are
you asking me to do at this moment and then when we get quiet enough to listen then there's
only one response that matters and that is actually you know Mary's response may it be
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to me as you've said it's yes and so you know if we can if we can learn to live that way
that life actually isn't all that complicated right mm-hmm as we yield ourselves to the sovereignty
of God he works it all out yeah and and we don't have to understand it exactly we don't
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have to fret about it yes yeah I open tell students you know you can relax you don't
have to worry your calling will find you mm-hmm very good dr. Taylor your life is full of
lots of accomplishments great and small so what do you consider one of your greatest
accomplishments and how can you encourage others by sharing that with us oh that's
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a hard one you know I often think we think of great accomplishments as singular moments
you know the football team wins a championship and they all get rings mm-hmm you know you
get some recognition you know whether it's the Orange County woman of the year business
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leader mm-hmm and you think of those moments and someone hands you something you stick
on a wall and say now there's my accomplishment but I've come to think very differently of
accomplishments and rather than a singular moment a singular event it's more it's much
more of a tapestry where it's all of the investment that leads up to that moment it's everything
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that happens that results in in some achievement or a breakthrough and I actually wonder if
in fact our greatest accomplishments we don't we won't even know what they are until we reach
heaven I'm often surprised when an alum or a student reminds me of a conversation that
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you know I have to think hard to remember and in somehow that conversation took place
at a pivotal moment in their life and changed the course of their life and had they not
shared that I would have missed it all together so who's to say what what the greatest moment
is because we we don't have the perspective of eternity yet so so I've often puzzled
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and thought you know we might be surprised when we reach heaven and what we thought were
the greatest accomplishments really didn't amount to anything and then we see people
who are in heaven because somehow we encourage them and there'd be a very different picture
of what greatness looks like yes God turns these things on their heads you might say
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yeah yeah I mean there was so I had the privilege of of caring for both of my parents at end
of life and and my father and I mentioned earlier my father was a businessman but at
some point I came to realize he was a businessman with the heart of an evangelist he loved sharing
his faith and he was he was retired you know I was this was when I was at Biola they came
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and joined me in California actually we shared a home together and and so his his his minute
he was no longer teaching Sunday school or being a deacon of a church or those places
of service he had in a church and so his his ministry if you will looked very different
and he made beautiful inlaid crosses in the garage and being in southern California you
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can pretty much work with the garage door up most of the year and we lived on this cul-de-sac
it was a very diverse ethnically diverse community and and over time every one of our neighbors
had one of his beautiful inlaid crosses just as a gift he would make them and give them
away and God had given him such a burden for our neighbors he kept and he kept a prayer
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list he would ask them all the time how can I pray for you and and so now they've been
there 10 years and it's dad's last month he had a heart condition so we we knew that his
his time was limited and and thankfully he was not in a lot of pain and he was able to be home
during that time but we were talking one day and he was saying you know we only had one neighbor
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a Japanese neighbor who had ever come to church and you know for 10 years every Easter every
Christmas he would invite them he had shared his faith with each of them and it wasn't until
it was Palm Sunday and he's now in a coma in a hospice room in a hospital and our Korean neighbor
comes in and says and and we said to you know you can sit and and just say whatever you want to say
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with dad he won't be able to respond but if there's something you want to say go ahead
well our neighbor sat down and he said mr. Taylor I want you to know 15 of your neighbors went to
church today to honor you he's been asking us to go all this time and we went today to honor you
and he said and I made a decision that I'm going to keep going for my family the next morning my
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father passed and it was it was a year later that I then came to evangel but stayed in touch with
that neighbor he did keep going to church he and his family were baptized and became very involved
began hosting a small group in his home and a year later so this is two years after my father
dies I get a call and he says carol I'm going to talk about your dad at church this weekend
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well the minister was was preaching on the power of one and he put up a picture of a world war two
veteran who just said you know this man loved his neighbors for 10 years and today this section of
the church is here because of him so there were 50 people in the church two years after my father
died that were there because of 10 years of faithfully praying for and loving our neighbors
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and I imagine dad looking down from heaven just just thrilled but he didn't see it here
and you know some would say would look at his life and say now here was your greatest accomplishment
here was your greatest accomplishment you know awards and business or whatever I'm I'm thinking
if you were to if I could sit down with dad today and I'd say so dad what's your greatest
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accomplishment he would start naming those people right and but he never saw it here so I I um
I don't know that that it's all that worthwhile to uh keep a long list of what the world looks
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at is accomplishments um as much as it is did we love Jesus every day did we do our best to
live as his presence in the world and we leave we leave the impact of that to him well your dad
gave you quite an example there that's a phenomenal story yeah he was he was a pretty amazing man
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not famous but amazing yes well dr carol taylor our time is up unfortunately but we have really
thought through some deep theological things in this episode on women in leadership but
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it's exciting what's happening at evangel university and in the assemblies of god it's
exciting to look back on your career and we certainly are so pleased that you have a passion
for service uh to the lord and have just helped all these students through the years we congratulate
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you on your upcoming retirement too thank you thank you it's been such a pleasure to talk with you
and um you have you have a fun uh fun job of collecting stories yes I do that's for sure
well we want to point people to your website would you share that with us sure um it's very easy
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www.evangel.edu okay evangel.edu and of course you know from if you know biblical greek it
it actually means good news right so we also say we're the good news university
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I love it what a great name for a school isn't it yeah well thank you so much Dr. Carol Taylor
for joining us here on charisma connection it's been our delight and we are kicking off our seven
part series on evangel and the good things happening there so thank you once again for being with us
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on the show today oh thank you my pleasure I'm Chris Johnson you've been listening to charisma
connection on the charisma podcast network thanks for listening today and be sure to check out CPN
shows dot com that stands for Charisma Podcast Network cpnshows.com god bless you this has
(35:40):
been a production of the Charisma Podcast Network Steve and Joy Strang are the founders and owners
of cpn. Dr Steve Greene is the executive producer of the Charisma Podcast Network we intend to honor
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possible
The way we welcome new students to our campus is actually the founder of Convoy of Hope
(00:09):
is an alum of Evangel and they're based here in Springfield.
So on Friday when the students, new students move into the door on Saturday morning while
a group of us are meeting with their parents to reassure them it's okay, you can leave
them here, they're going to be fine, you have a box of tissues.
What we do with the students is we give them a Convoy of Hope t-shirt and we send them
(00:33):
out in the city to do service projects.
So we say not only it serves a core value of the institution, here's what it looks
like lived out.
This is Charisma Connection on the Charisma Podcast Network.
I'm Chris Johnson.
Today we begin a seven part series on the work of Evangel University in Springfield,
(00:57):
Missouri and perhaps I should say if you're from Missouri I think it's Missouri but we'll
get to that later.
But even if you're not looking to head to school yourself or if you don't have a child
entering higher education I think you'll be interested in our topic today as well as
(01:17):
the various topics that we'll cover in this seven part series and those include mental
health, the pandemic and Bible literacy so quite a wide range of topics.
If you're not familiar with Evangel it's an accredited liberal arts university, has more
than 70 academic programs so very well established and it is affiliated with the assemblies of
(01:44):
God but it has a wide range of students from different Christian denominational backgrounds
and they of course have a strong commitment to academics with a desire to combine Christian
faith with every aspect of life.
And we are privileged today to have the president of Evangel University with us Dr. Carol Taylor.
(02:07):
She is actually the fourth president of the school and she's been there since 2013.
She is an alumna of Evangel and the assemblies of God Theological Seminary.
She also holds a doctorate from Florida State and we of course are sitting here in Lake
(02:27):
Mary Florida right now so that's great.
And she has spent her life in key leadership roles in not only Christian education but
also public and private education.
Previous to her work with Evangel was the ninth president of Vanguard University in
Costa Mesa California and she held that position from 2009 to 2013.
(02:53):
Before that she was even provost and vice president of academic affairs and before
that she worked for Biola University so she has lots and lots of experience and brought
all of that to her work at Evangel.
She's also an ordained minister with the assemblies of God.
So welcome to Charisma Connection Dr. Taylor.
(03:15):
Well thank you.
It's great to be with you today.
Well I'm so glad to get a chance to get to know you and the work of Evangel and I understand
first of all that congratulations are in order that you have completed more than 45 years
of service in education which is wonderful and I'm sure you have many students and many
(03:37):
colleagues who appreciate your work and just how you've poured into their lives over the
years.
Well you hope that's the case.
Yes, it's been an honor to serve here and at other institutions.
Yes, you have a wide range of experience which is just terrific and we only touched on part
(03:57):
of it but today our topic is something that you are very familiar with yourself and that
is women in leadership and what you're doing at Evangel to promote that.
But first of all I want to say that the COVID pandemic has been quite the backdrop to your
expected retirement or tell us when you are going to retire.
(04:23):
So actually just in another week at the end of this semester the original plan was last
summer and then COVID disrupted that as well as many other things.
It surely did.
Well we caught you just in time it sounds like.
Now what would you say in the last nine months of 2020 what would you say has been the most
(04:47):
significant lesson you've learned?
Oh my there have been so many.
I would say no one in higher education today has navigated what we are all navigating with
COVID.
So you often hear the words unprecedented, uncharted and I think what we've done is you've
(05:10):
taken everything you've learned across a lifetime and you just put it on steroids.
The other is I mean we talk about the importance of flexibility but if there has ever been
a season or a time when you make your best plans and then you throw them out the window
because everything has changed that's the season we've been living in.
(05:31):
In fact I was thinking, in fact I've often quoted President Eisenhower when he talked
about preparing for battle he said in preparing for battle I've always found that plans are
useless but planning is indispensable.
So you make plans knowing full well that tomorrow you may get new information something else
(05:51):
may happen and you're going to adjust those plans or throw them out all together and develop
a new plan.
So we also live by the model blessed are the flexible and I have often said this past
spring semester and over the summer and even this fall I'm almost convinced that that is
(06:14):
a lost be attitude.
You know blessed are the flexible and you learn to embrace that and just roll with whatever
the day brings.
Boy that's so true.
I have some mission background myself and that is one thing that they tried to teach
us.
(06:34):
That's right.
Yeah.
Well you also are the first woman to serve as the president of an Assemblies of God
college, university or seminary and as I mentioned well first at Vanguard University is where
you became the first woman president there and now the first woman president at Evangel.
(06:54):
So the Assemblies of God has long championed women in leadership roles and ministry.
In words of encouragement would you offer young women who are exploring that kind of
ministry call today?
I would say don't give up.
Don't give up.
(07:17):
You know so while the Assemblies of God has ordained women for you know historically
women were critical in the founding of the Assemblies of God but I've talked with enough
women at the seminary who are in ministry and perhaps working on a master's degree or
a de-men who get discouraged because the places where they feel called to serve may not be
(07:45):
as welcoming to women even in the Assemblies of God and my encouragement to them is don't
give up.
The other encouragement that I would have is you have and here's the word flexible again.
You've got to be open to what may be a different journey in getting to the place where you
will serve.
(08:06):
So if you think you're going to follow some smooth straight path I will do this and then
I will do that and I will progress in levels of leadership it may not happen that way at
all.
And so I think being open to whatever opportunity is in front of you with the prayerful consideration
God what are you asking me to do in this situation?
(08:30):
We believe you know God can get you where he needs to get you but it may not be in your
timeline or in the way you would think.
And we have lots of biblical examples of that right?
Yes.
I mean so Joseph had this beautiful dream.
He had no idea what that dream would actually look like or that it would include slavery
(08:54):
and imprisonment before he actually found himself in a place where you know not only
did his brothers bow down but he actually saved his entire nation.
And so I think we need to hold our dreams and our callings loosely and trust that the
(09:14):
one who calls us has a way of writing the story he intends to write with our lives.
But don't lose heart, don't give up, continue to prepare and be available and God will do
what he intends to do with your life if you keep it surrendered to him.
Yes.
(09:35):
I think the journey often takes a lot of twists and turns you know whether you're a woman
or a man.
Or you are.
Yes.
And you're right there's so many things that are unexpected and as you get a few years
on you and you look back in the rear view mirror and you see oh that particular job helped
(09:57):
me with the current job that I'm in.
And it just kind of all gets woven together into that beautiful tapestry you hear about.
Right.
I mean it isn't the case.
It's a lot easier to make sense of the journey if you're looking back.
That's true.
And eventually you see oh it did kind of all fit together.
(10:18):
Much harder if you're in the middle of it.
Yes.
Or if you're trying to look from where you are perhaps into something in the future.
But yeah.
Well Dr. Taylor people who know you well I understand know that you have a great passion
for service.
Service to one another and to the church.
(10:40):
So where did your sense of contribution develop as you went along in your journey?
You know that so that's a I think it's a hard question.
I don't know and I don't know that anyone would point to a single moment in time.
Right.
It's more of this accumulation of life experiences and watching others and and being shaped over
(11:06):
a lifetime.
I mean I was I was I was privileged to grow up in a Christian home and see people around
me in particular my own parents who were not ministers.
My father was a businessman but he lived a very generous life with with a commitment
of being of service.
(11:26):
If there if there was a need and he could help meet the need he was there.
Never never preached it never really said now here's how you need to live it.
I just watched it in his life and then there were others that that influenced I think a
lot of it really began taking shape actually when I was an undergraduate student here in
(11:47):
Evangelion and and the challenge was I remember being presented with the challenge of how
to how to hold your life.
And one image was as a blank legal contract and and the pages is blank and the challenges
say if you were to hold that up and say God you get to fill in this empty page any way
(12:12):
you want.
And I'm signing my name while it is blank on the bottom with a commitment to say yes
to whatever it is you would call me to do.
And you know that's a lovely activity for an undergraduate student but then it's life
happens the tendency is we begin writing in conditions right.
So yeah I'll do this so long as I get XYZ.
(12:36):
I'll go there if it meets these conditions.
And so I think that the challenge with with living a life with an I often refer to this
an unqualified yes is that we have to keep erasing the conditions that were tempted to
write in.
And so I think it's something that that develops over a lifetime.
(12:57):
The other is you know at some point we realize that our best model for life as rich and wonderful
is all of the biblical stories are you know from Genesis all the way to Revelation.
But if we really want to know how to live well there's really one life that we need
to study and look at above all others and it's the life of Christ himself.
(13:20):
And I often often think of the it's a very familiar verse in Matthew and I've been over
the last several years particularly drawn to the way it's written in the message where
and these are red letter words right.
So these are this is an invitation that we all have where Christ says are you tired are
(13:42):
you worn out are you burned out on religion come to me get away with me and you'll rescue
recover your life.
I'll show you how to take a real rest and then this invitation walk with me work with
me watch how I do it learn the unforced rhythms of grace I won't lay anything heavy or real
(14:03):
sitting on you keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly.
But I love the invitation when he says you want to know how to live a life of service
and in the most meaningful life of all watch how I do it.
And we have we have these beautiful gospels that give us this window into how he lived
(14:24):
and served and and I think if we keep watching him and learning from him and accepting that
incredible invitation to get away with him and walk with him then then I think service
is just a natural outgrowth of living close to Christ.
(14:47):
Mm hmm.
That's true.
Well part of your service has been in Christian higher education and you know are there exciting
things happening there what is the future and and what are the bright spots in the future
of Christian higher education.
Oh that's I mean that's a great question I you know you you often hear people talking
(15:10):
about you know threats to Christian Christian higher education that we're living in a post
Christian world and they can paint a fairly dire picture.
I'm actually encouraged every day on campus as I meet with students who are passionate
about following Christ and pursuing their vocational calling as as a way of living as his presence
(15:32):
in the world.
I look at where our graduates go I look at the fact that I mean we've got an outstanding
education department for example and before our students ever graduate they've got job
offers from all of the schools in the area here and they're they're they're among the
most desirable new teachers and and often become at a very high percentage rate teachers
(16:01):
of the year and talking with with the school superintendent administrators and this applies
as well in in in the corporate sector where they love to hire our graduates and I think
this this is not just for evangel but for for those schools who have remained focused
on on cultivating men and women who are committed to living their lives and living out their
(16:27):
vocational calling as the presence of Christ in the world.
And so how does that show up they may not talk about it as well we love that you're
committed Christians what they notice is is first of all that they're competent yes that
they've been adequately prepared either for graduate school or for for immediate employment
(16:48):
the other is and I hear this repeatedly when I ask the question is there they have a willingness
to learn and a heart to serve that's a pretty powerful combination.
A willingness to learn and a heart to serve yes it certainly is.
Yeah and and I love hearing it because actually services one of the core values of of evangel
(17:12):
and we have in fact the way we welcome new students to our campus is actually the the
founder of convoy of hope is an alum of evangel and they're based here in Springfield so on
Friday when the students new students move into the dorm on Saturday morning while a
group of us are meeting with their parents to reassure them it's okay you can leave them
(17:36):
here they're going to be fine you have a box of tissues.
What we do with the students is we give them a convoy of hope t-shirt and we send them
out in the city to do service projects.
So we say not only is service a core value of the institution here's what it looks like
lived out and and so I think for Christian higher education the bright spot is is that
(18:03):
the world desperately needs what we produce they may not describe it as we would describe
it we would say it's students living living as the presence of Christ the world may not
recognize it or put that label on it but but but there's a hunger there in a desire for
(18:28):
for whether it's employees or men and women that can serve with that kind of heart and
and of course then comes the opportunity if you can serve and live that way to be a winsome
presence of Christ in the world and so whether whether that is is in church based ministry
(18:48):
or on the mission field or it's in the marketplace in corporate America we are to live our lives
as the fragrance and aroma of Christ in the world and when you think about these desperate
times and and the contention and anger and and the world desperately needs the peace
(19:13):
of Christ and and and that's what our schools produce men and women who reflect that in
the marketplace and in the churches and and it and I get inspired every day when I see
what our students are doing and the respect that they have in the community and and say
(19:40):
we need to keep going well when I asked you this question about the bright spots of Christian
higher education I I never expected you to talk about the peace of Christ bringing that
to the community but oh don't we need it and if they if it comes from the students that's
just wonderful well you know I mean so if I could say a little more about that it it
(20:04):
and I think it's especially as an undergraduate student you know we have no idea really what
God wants to do with our lives I mean even my own story I was an elementary education
major if you would have asked me when I was a senior about to graduate if I could imagine
one day coming back and serving my alma mater as president I would have howled I mean at
(20:29):
that time I wasn't even thinking about graduate school okay I was just thinking about that
first teaching job and never imagined the the journey that that God had planned so one of
the things I asked alumni especially those alumni that are further down the road then
then our young fresh graduates did did you ever imagine the journey God would take you
(20:54):
on and I'm tracking at a hundred percent of nope never imagined it or I knew it would
be business but I never imagined exactly you know how that journey would go and and I in
fact I just had a text message from he was a classmate of mine texted me this morning
he just recently retired but he came so give one moment for just a little yes but I think
(21:20):
it illustrates this beautifully actually too so so when I was a student at evangel there
was a he's actually Armenian but came from came from Lebanon he was his family had had
fled the genocide in Turkey and and they had been they'd made their home in Beirut for
(21:41):
some time and and they became friends with the missionary and the missionary said Sam
I think you need to go to college I think you should go to evangel then it was college
not university do you know where that is and Sam said no I've never heard of it he's well
it's in it's in Missouri do you know where that is no so the missionary opened the map
of the United States put it out on the table pointed he said it's right here in the middle
(22:05):
Springfield Missouri right here in the middle and Sam said he looked at the map and he said
oh my goodness it's only two inches from Chicago I'll go there and and so that's literally
how he arrived on campus terrific soccer player but he had a dream and it was he wanted to
study law now eventually he did go on to law school and and and had a particular interest
(22:30):
as perhaps wouldn't be surprising in immigration law and and actually became our nation's first
Armenian immigrant federal judge how about that and he actually shared that story with
me in his chambers and you want to guess what city he was in Chicago so he did get to Chicago
(22:50):
but not quite the way he imagined and I said so Sam did you ever imagine when you're kicking
a soccer ball out on the field that this is where you would actually end up and the opportunity
that you would have to serve in such a significant place and his response is no not at all another
dear dear friend of mine he actually graduated he's actually older than me but graduated a
(23:13):
bit before me and he was a pastor's kid and he ran track and I think was a business major
and joined the Navy after he graduated then she did an MBA and and would would would call
his father the pastor before every opportunity for maybe advancement or or another assignment
(23:34):
and his father would always have the same answer his name was Vern Clark and and he said well
Vern you should pray about it and and consider if the Lord hasn't opened the door that you
should walk through so eventually it was you know dad they've offered me a ship captain
of a ship what do you think I should do well son you know you need to pray and and then
(23:54):
it was wow dad they've offered me a fleet and then a day came when the call was dad they've
offered me the whole US Navy so Admiral Vern Clark became C&O which meant he got a lot of
the Marines with him as well but but I remember asking him because he was actually in that
role on 9 11 it was his section of the Pentagon that got hit that day oh my and I remember
(24:21):
afterwards saying so Vern you know when you were running track and dating Connie and and
had some dream did you ever in your wildest imagination think that that dream would one
day place you in a particular office on a particular day because if ever our nation needed a competent
(24:45):
leader who also knew how to pray at that time it it was it was you and you know of course
he said are you kidding I never I never imagined even being captain of a ship let alone C&O
of the of the Navy and and I think you know we just we can't see how what God may want
(25:10):
to do with with dreams or callings that that we sense and so I think you know what plot
I was challenged with way back as an undergraduate student myself still holds true today and
at some point I think we begin to realize that in all of life there's really only one
(25:33):
question that really matters once we've committed our life to Christ and that is God what are
you asking me to do at this moment and then when we get quiet enough to listen then there's
only one response that matters and that is actually you know Mary's response may it be
(25:54):
to me as you've said it's yes and so you know if we can if we can learn to live that way
that life actually isn't all that complicated right mm-hmm as we yield ourselves to the sovereignty
of God he works it all out yeah and and we don't have to understand it exactly we don't
(26:18):
have to fret about it yes yeah I open tell students you know you can relax you don't
have to worry your calling will find you mm-hmm very good dr. Taylor your life is full of
lots of accomplishments great and small so what do you consider one of your greatest
accomplishments and how can you encourage others by sharing that with us oh that's
(26:48):
a hard one you know I often think we think of great accomplishments as singular moments
you know the football team wins a championship and they all get rings mm-hmm you know you
get some recognition you know whether it's the Orange County woman of the year business
(27:11):
leader mm-hmm and you think of those moments and someone hands you something you stick
on a wall and say now there's my accomplishment but I've come to think very differently of
accomplishments and rather than a singular moment a singular event it's more it's much
more of a tapestry where it's all of the investment that leads up to that moment it's everything
(27:36):
that happens that results in in some achievement or a breakthrough and I actually wonder if
in fact our greatest accomplishments we don't we won't even know what they are until we reach
heaven I'm often surprised when an alum or a student reminds me of a conversation that
(28:03):
you know I have to think hard to remember and in somehow that conversation took place
at a pivotal moment in their life and changed the course of their life and had they not
shared that I would have missed it all together so who's to say what what the greatest moment
is because we we don't have the perspective of eternity yet so so I've often puzzled
(28:32):
and thought you know we might be surprised when we reach heaven and what we thought were
the greatest accomplishments really didn't amount to anything and then we see people
who are in heaven because somehow we encourage them and there'd be a very different picture
of what greatness looks like yes God turns these things on their heads you might say
(28:59):
yeah yeah I mean there was so I had the privilege of of caring for both of my parents at end
of life and and my father and I mentioned earlier my father was a businessman but at
some point I came to realize he was a businessman with the heart of an evangelist he loved sharing
his faith and he was he was retired you know I was this was when I was at Biola they came
(29:24):
and joined me in California actually we shared a home together and and so his his his minute
he was no longer teaching Sunday school or being a deacon of a church or those places
of service he had in a church and so his his ministry if you will looked very different
and he made beautiful inlaid crosses in the garage and being in southern California you
(29:49):
can pretty much work with the garage door up most of the year and we lived on this cul-de-sac
it was a very diverse ethnically diverse community and and over time every one of our neighbors
had one of his beautiful inlaid crosses just as a gift he would make them and give them
away and God had given him such a burden for our neighbors he kept and he kept a prayer
(30:11):
list he would ask them all the time how can I pray for you and and so now they've been
there 10 years and it's dad's last month he had a heart condition so we we knew that his
his time was limited and and thankfully he was not in a lot of pain and he was able to be home
during that time but we were talking one day and he was saying you know we only had one neighbor
(30:36):
a Japanese neighbor who had ever come to church and you know for 10 years every Easter every
Christmas he would invite them he had shared his faith with each of them and it wasn't until
it was Palm Sunday and he's now in a coma in a hospice room in a hospital and our Korean neighbor
comes in and says and and we said to you know you can sit and and just say whatever you want to say
(31:02):
with dad he won't be able to respond but if there's something you want to say go ahead
well our neighbor sat down and he said mr. Taylor I want you to know 15 of your neighbors went to
church today to honor you he's been asking us to go all this time and we went today to honor you
and he said and I made a decision that I'm going to keep going for my family the next morning my
(31:25):
father passed and it was it was a year later that I then came to evangel but stayed in touch with
that neighbor he did keep going to church he and his family were baptized and became very involved
began hosting a small group in his home and a year later so this is two years after my father
dies I get a call and he says carol I'm going to talk about your dad at church this weekend
(31:50):
well the minister was was preaching on the power of one and he put up a picture of a world war two
veteran who just said you know this man loved his neighbors for 10 years and today this section of
the church is here because of him so there were 50 people in the church two years after my father
died that were there because of 10 years of faithfully praying for and loving our neighbors
(32:16):
and I imagine dad looking down from heaven just just thrilled but he didn't see it here
and you know some would say would look at his life and say now here was your greatest accomplishment
here was your greatest accomplishment you know awards and business or whatever I'm I'm thinking
if you were to if I could sit down with dad today and I'd say so dad what's your greatest
(32:39):
accomplishment he would start naming those people right and but he never saw it here so I I um
I don't know that that it's all that worthwhile to uh keep a long list of what the world looks
(32:59):
at is accomplishments um as much as it is did we love Jesus every day did we do our best to
live as his presence in the world and we leave we leave the impact of that to him well your dad
gave you quite an example there that's a phenomenal story yeah he was he was a pretty amazing man
(33:24):
not famous but amazing yes well dr carol taylor our time is up unfortunately but we have really
thought through some deep theological things in this episode on women in leadership but
(33:45):
it's exciting what's happening at evangel university and in the assemblies of god it's
exciting to look back on your career and we certainly are so pleased that you have a passion
for service uh to the lord and have just helped all these students through the years we congratulate
(34:05):
you on your upcoming retirement too thank you thank you it's been such a pleasure to talk with you
and um you have you have a fun uh fun job of collecting stories yes I do that's for sure
well we want to point people to your website would you share that with us sure um it's very easy
(34:30):
www.evangel.edu okay evangel.edu and of course you know from if you know biblical greek it
it actually means good news right so we also say we're the good news university
(34:53):
I love it what a great name for a school isn't it yeah well thank you so much Dr. Carol Taylor
for joining us here on charisma connection it's been our delight and we are kicking off our seven
part series on evangel and the good things happening there so thank you once again for being with us
(35:16):
on the show today oh thank you my pleasure I'm Chris Johnson you've been listening to charisma
connection on the charisma podcast network thanks for listening today and be sure to check out CPN
shows dot com that stands for Charisma Podcast Network cpnshows.com god bless you this has
(35:40):
been a production of the Charisma Podcast Network Steve and Joy Strang are the founders and owners
of cpn. Dr Steve Greene is the executive producer of the Charisma Podcast Network we intend to honor
God with every podcast and remain thankful to our advertisers and supporters who make these podcasts
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