Community, Connection, and Controversy in Tattooing ft. Tony Mancia

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I think it's okay to have contests at a convention for healed
work, right? Because it's a totally different element,
you know? But if they just got rid of Tattoo of the Day and Best of
Show, the entire convention would be different.
People would be able- Tattoo of the Day makes people go insane. They
do insane shit. They don't talk to anybody. It really does

(00:21):
take a client and an artist completely out of the community, chasing
Shits about to go down. I'm
feeling something in my spirit. Chats

(00:46):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Chats and Tats with me, your
host, Aaron De La Vidova. I'm lucky
enough to be up here at the Golden State Tattoo Expo here
in Pasadena, California, and I've been wandering around
meeting a lot of bad-ass tattooers, a
few I never heard of, a few I had. The gentleman I have

(01:07):
on today is one I have known about for a long time. I've looked up to his work
for a very long time. Uh, you really should check it
out. It's phenomenal. Um, and I
know based on his portfolio, this is a very hardworking individual.
I know what it takes to create a portfolio like this. So right out of
the gate, I got nothing but respect for this man. Well, how would I explain

(01:27):
him? He's a black and gray. kind of surrealism, so
there's a lot of realistic aspects to his tattooing, but then he's taking
some Salvador Dali soul juice and
just stirring it up into some crazy cocktail. It's
the best way I could say it. He's also a painter. He's
gonna be shy about this, but he's doing some sculpting and they are

(01:48):
insane in fact We just had to talk about it. I think I'm gonna give a stab at
this It sounded so rad to try that but he is he owned
his own tattoo shop in Atlanta for 15 years Stygian
And then just in the last couple years, he's backed out of that and
went kind of private. And now he is in Dallas, Pennsylvania with
his wife, the two of them in this beautiful studio, just

(02:13):
working their craft and growing their art together. So
beautiful. I'm a little jealous. So with all that being said, please
I'm stoked to be here, man. Everybody, it's early in the morning for us tattooers. We are
here. Response time might be a little second off. Our
coffees haven't fully absorbed into our bloodstreams, but we're

(02:35):
going to do our best. You know, much to talk about, and
we're going to just move fast because I've got a few. You've got to go. I've got
to go. But we had this moment, and we're going to do it. But just tell
me. I love to hear how people find tattoo. I mean, you
could have been a lot of different creative things, but you're a tattoo artist. How'd
Man, so I did the typical, started getting tattooed

(02:57):
at about 15. You know, go to the biker shop, pay cash, they don't ID. And
I had this magical idea that, you know, when you're 18 and you can legally go
get a tattoo, that it's going to be incredible. So I drew
up some sketches for a back piece, you know, and walked into a
shop and showed it to the guy I wanted to get tattooed. He's like, cool man, I need
an apprentice. And I'm like, I'm in college. It's

(03:19):
not going to work. He's like, you know, I'm not going to
That was the price. Yeah, and I was like, all right,
this sounds great. So I bounced school
apprentice, school apprentice for a while. Wholeheartedly,

(03:39):
I had a more traditional apprenticeship, but he taught me.
He legitimate put effort into teaching me, and
it was awesome. It was great. And then
I started tattooing probably when I was full time, when I was 19. Didn't
stop from there. So it kind of just fell upon
me. I really never planned on it. I was like, I'm in school for fine art

(04:03):
and painting. I'll draw pictures for people and have
a great living. And you quickly realize that,
one, that would be difficult, but two, that you fell in love with
tattooing pretty immediate. There's a different element
Let's talk about that. in your words,

(04:28):
I would honestly say so. It's, it's interesting. You have, you
have a start to finish, right? You have a time limit, you know, you
have human interaction. It's almost like when you're tattooing, you have, you know,
someone's lighting off fireworks here and you have to be able to multitask, you
know, especially back in the day, you know, you're fully having a
conversation with a client while you're trying to pull a line with a green soap stencil,

(04:50):
you know, like, wow, this is a lot, you
know? So it was such a challenge to kind of, do
everything and still have to accomplish this task in
a time frame on something that's breathing, moving.
it kind of forces you to treat it in

(05:10):
a totally different realm of art, which was interesting. You know,
like if you're painting, you're like, I'm going to put some music on.
I'm just going to have quiet and I have all this time.
And none of that applied to tattooing. So I
think that was like the biggest draw and you, you fall in
love with it because you become obsessed with it. You know, you're like, well, how
do I do this better? How do I, you know, can't mess it up, but

(05:33):
I did, you know? So, yeah. I
It's just... Well, and all that's true on a,
I guess I would call that on a technical level, right? Let's go
deeper than that. What makes tattoo special? I
mean, maybe you disagree, I don't think you do, but I
personally don't think for someone that gets

(05:56):
a tattoo that they really, really, really love, I
would challenge them to ask them, like,
has a painting ever moved you as much as that tattoo? Has
a, anything ever, any piece of art, And
maybe they went to the Sistine Chapel and it
happened there. But I'm not trying to say or build a case where

(06:17):
tattoo is the greatest art in the world, nothing can move people as powerfully as
tattoo. Not true. I mean, you might be into music, you might hear Mozart's Fifth,
and it moves you more than your back piece. But
in a general way, you will find consistently, it does
move people more than a painting, more than a sculpture, all this
stuff. Let's get into that. Why is that? Besides

(06:40):
the obvious, it's, you know, for sure, but I'll let you put it
What is all that? I mean, if you take away the whole, oh, it's on
you forever, right? Of course it is. You know, you, I
think as, as the person getting it, you are
making a conscious choice to kind of change your
life, right? You know, whether it's just a visual change, whether

(07:01):
it's a, you know, kind of holding on
to that day even, right? Or the memory of why you're getting
it. So I think there's nothing more personal and exciting
and, you know, meaningful for
the person, even if they get something that has no meaning, that they just like the imagery. They
made the choice to do it. So I think there's an attachment to

(07:22):
it that you don't get with something you could
just buy, something that's hanging on your wall, something that you go, okay.
You said a good one there. I haven't thought of
it this way, but when you buy a painting, you're not committing to
changing your personal persona. You're not committing to changing your
identity. Yeah. I mean, it kind of does. Maybe you decorate
your whole house with Picasso, but guess what? In a couple years, you're like, yeah, this

(07:45):
stuff's lame. And then it's all Dalai. But when you
do a tattoo, you're saying, I'm going to be different. I'm going to
express myself in this way, and I'm going to have to stick with it to the better end.
So yeah, of course, it's going to be a little more impactful to the person that
that buys it or gets it, you know? So that's true, that's true.
Makes it more special, makes it different. 10,000% and I think, you know,

(08:06):
maybe even like fast-forwarding too much, but I think especially
now that there is a large and
small community around tattooing, you also are kind of
like putting yourself into a new Group,
you know, you can go places and see people with
tattoos and be like, hey, I have a tattoo too Wow, that's part of

(08:28):
the club. We yeah, we both made this, you know, cool commitment Like how
awesome is this, you know, and there's like a sense of belonging and
accomplishment, you know, you have to sit there Yeah, you know, it's just like
Yeah. Yeah, he's automatically accepted and loved by strangers Yeah
that have custom Harley. Yeah He just pulls up, and
he sees three guys with custom Harleys. Guaranteed, they're all going to get along

(08:51):
and be friends. Yeah, you do become a part of a community. Like
Yeah, right. But yeah,
I mean, I think it's just, it's it's just
such a kind of experience that you created for yourself, you
know, as, as the one getting the tattoo. And, and, you know, especially if
you have a great experience, then, I mean, you're going to hold onto that

(09:15):
Well, experience is, is, and you hear it talked about now a lot. I'm
a 30 year ago tattooer. And it was like, my first boss told me
you see those people in the waiting room. Yeah. Those are your enemy.
Literally, that was his words. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, fuck them.
They are here to pay us our fucking money. Be nice. But
if any of them give you shit, give me a signal. We'll kick their asses. And

(09:38):
he came from the streets of San Francisco. He learned from Henry Goldfield. At the time, I
was like, you're fucking stupid. That is not how it
works. But the thing, what was happening is I was seeing the future of
what we do now, which is we're giving the customer an experience. We
have these beautiful spaces. They get tattooed. And we ask them if they're thirsty
or hungry. We give them pillows to put under their neck. It's completely opposite. But

(09:59):
he was coming from, no man, like we almost got stabbed one
night in a shop I used to work at. So he was just, so I've learned
in time to understand him and even forgive him. Like he was trying
to help me. He thought I was going into that tattoo world. He
didn't understand the tattoo world, that landscape was shifting before
his eyes, right? But yeah, that is a big part of it. But the

(10:19):
other part of tattoo that I always, it's like a, it's a, you know, so
many people, You know, I think everybody's an
artist. I've said it my whole life. You look at little babies, little children, let them
do whatever they want. They create. They get mud and
make something. They just make stuff. And so
everyone's sort of an artist and not everybody is a visual

(10:39):
artist. Some it goes towards music or whatever. But I find with tattoo clients,
they're kind of like really artistic people who never had
time to develop illustration skills or sculpting skills.
So they have this yearning desire to express. And then
we get to like co-collaborate with them.
So they get to be a part of this art project, which is pretty

(11:01):
rare. I mean, most people don't get to be a part of the painter. They don't sit in
that room. I'm going to buy a painting from you. I'm going to sit with you every day while you paint
it. And when you want to use a certain color, we're going to discuss it. I
don't know about the light purple. How about, you know, it doesn't, you do the painting, you
give it to them. So it's this co-collaborative thing. And I think that's
why they want it. It is on their body till they die. And,

(11:21):
but also they were a part of it, you know, I mean, there are exceptions where it's just like,
I drew this sit down, shut up, there you go. But I think you and I are both
in the world where no, we're, we're working with these people. We're allowing
their opinions to enter into the project. Yeah. That I
think would qualify as definitely a special part of tattooing, you know?
I mean, it's actually, awesome you brought that up because

(11:41):
it's hard to articulate that part, but that's 100% true.
And I think that also adds a huge kind
of, how do you word it? I
don't want to say connection, that's the wrong word, but I always
tell all my clients, we're both equally in this. We

(12:02):
both have to symbiotically work together to accomplish a goal.
I want your input, I'm going to give you my input. We're going to
hit this middle ground where everything's just smooth sailing from there. And
I think that makes people excited. I think when both parties are
on the same page and going towards the same
goal, it works. It does.

(12:24):
And that's why, just like dating, you better
vibe. It's not a sexual thing, but it's
almost Like, you have to almost be somebody I'd be friends with. And
it's fine if we don't and we wouldn't be friends, but usually
a good tattoo's not going to come out of that. We've got to have similar
interests, similar likes and dislikes. So it's a

(12:45):
relationship, especially when we do these large 200-hour projects.
Like, oh, OK, we're going to spend the next three years together. Let's
get to know each other first because otherwise it
could not go well. Interesting. Another layer
to why tattoo is different and special, right? You don't have to do that in
these other art forms. You don't have to maintain a two-year loving

(13:08):
friendship with the person you're making the art with. It
could be more of a business transaction. Here's your painting. Give me my money. Thank
you. So way different, way different. I'm kind
of getting back to you fell into tattooing and you never walked away. I
would expect the reason that happened, and it does happen to most tattooers, is
you fell in love with what we're talking about. You could have fell in love

(13:30):
as hard for painting. You could
have. But the painting wasn't doing the things we just said. But
the tattoo does do these things. And not everyone falls in
love with it. I know some artists that got in, they did not like that part. They
were like, this is too personal. I'm not, I'm introverted. I
don't want to have relationships with a thousand people that

(13:50):
all have my cell phone number and they migrate it off, you know, and
they're painters and they're amazing. And they have their private painting
studios and it's great. So, but you're like me, we liked that
relationship part of it. I think. Yeah, it's cool. Absolutely. very
cool well on that note well not on that note but just uh
something what do you think about you're a 20-year tattooer so you know

(14:11):
i like to say it's like you got the full ride right 20 years ago i'm
30 it was even dirtier then but you still got
some dirty i know you've been in and out of some fucking thug-ass shops and
you know whatever which is fantastic and beautiful it makes our
industry super colorful yep it's sort of going away further in
the distance so you had that and then you were part of what i like to call

(14:31):
the tattoo renaissance which is when all these talented
young artists, people that would never have become tattooers 40 years
ago, became tattooers. They could have went off to Disney or
Pixar. These guys have you, all these guys' talent. So
then this renaissance, boom! And now we're at where
we're at today, where it's just like every morning I wake up, I see another

(14:53):
level of somebody doing something. I'm like, Holy shit, can
it get any better? And it keeps going. But let's talk about that.
How do you view that, especially the future? I
mean, I just kind of covered the past, the present. I think
you're nodding your head. So we just agree that's what happened. The tattoo renaissance
occurred and is still occurring. Let's talk about the future

(15:14):
though, because the landscape of our planet is shifting so rapidly
with AI and digital media and all these, this
stuff, you know, and it's not just going to affect tattoo, it's going to affect government, religion,
everything. So, but let's, let's, you know, what are your thoughts around that?
Or specifics when we get into like AI and elements like that, or

(15:37):
Let's just do a little bit of all of it. What's the next 10 years of tattooing? It's
going to be hard to get that right. I don't exactly know, but take a
What's it going to look like? As a general, I
agree with everything you said. Let's say
up until even today. I don't want to say
we're peaking. But I want to say you're going to see this

(16:00):
revival of a little bit of an older mentality I
think we we're getting a little lost with technology incorporated
with tattooing and it's only going to hurt people, right? I mean, they think it's going
to be beneficial But you know, no one's really earning it,
right? Like no one's pushing things anymore It's like you go to a convention you'll
see the same thing, right? You'll see a half black

(16:21):
and gray Zeus face, right? And they're going to put a big line through it then they're going
to do a color portion of a skull and they're going to put a line through it and then they're going
You're seeing themes being repeated. What
you're talking about there is technology, digital media, AI
is homogenizing the output of the

(16:43):
Between that and what we see on social media, it's kind of taking all these people
who are phenomenal and have room to really just
blow our minds, right? But time, right? It's
kind of like what you said. When you work hard, you can build a portfolio. But
it's time. And people now have a tool that can make them lazier as
far as a creative process. And also, you have pressure from, let's

(17:05):
say, the main source I think people think is driving
their business is social media. So they're seeing what's getting more likes. They're
seeing what's being popular. They're kind of pigeonholing themselves into
this, right? When they could do this. And they're forgetting about,
like, This is only hitting a niche market, right?
Like there are millions of people out there who want to see you push

(17:28):
a limit and, you know, maybe trial and error, but I
think we're going to keep progressing, but I think we're going to kind of be at a
cap point until people stop using it, you
know? And then even with AI, like You
know, that's a many
hours of a conversation, but in my opinion, is

(17:51):
it okay to utilize technology? Sure. Is
it kind of sad because you're not
even having to mentally think about your process anymore?
You know, if you're just punching in keywords, Poseidon, water,
ship, octopus thing, right? and you weren't able, let's
say you could execute a tattoo perfectly, but you can't create

(18:13):
it, you don't have the mental capability. Train yourself, you
know, figure it out. Now you punch it in
and that's what everyone's doing, right? So you're just going to be having something dictate
what you're creating. And then at what point is it just not, all
you're doing, you're a craftsman, which you are, but like you're just executing something
you didn't even create. So did you steal it from a computer? Did you put

(18:35):
no effort into it? You're not going to learn, you know? Um,
so I think we're kind of, Currently capped.
I think you're gonna have a lot of people pushing that, you know still
want to Progress to a
point where it's gonna blow everyone's mind But I think as a whole
we need to kind of degress from it and start putting the effort back

(18:58):
in And then you'll see like almost like another revival, you
know It'll it'll kind of like come full circle and you'll be like, oh crap.
I agree. I mean, you know, so
many, you look at all the really hot pieces
on Instagram right now, and a lot of them You can

(19:19):
just see it. I'm like, that came out of Mid Journey. That's a Mid Journey AI
production. They're all unique, right? So
it is cool that the AI can produce a unique, new, novel
concept or art piece, and then you tattoo it. That's cool.
At least it's not an exact copy. But you can tell these

(19:40):
And it's sort of... You know, I've often said, like,
AI seems to be this shiny new toy that it's very impressive.
Like, it's writing Jimi Hendrix songs that don't exist.
And I'm checking it out. These are fucking cool, you know?
I've been on Mid-Journey. I can't believe it does it. So it's a shiny new toy that
everyone's very enthralled by it. But it

(20:02):
is homogenizing, and it is you know so you
see these they look like computer-ish generated art on
skin and and and that's that's cool but
i do think there's gonna be and i'm seeing it like that's this is probably the revival
of like this minimalist tribal work people are
getting now yeah you know it's like all this super complex,

(20:23):
and this is, you know, sound, your stuff is complex, too. Yeah.
And layered in that way. But and that's beautiful. But you're
seeing people going the opposite direction. Now. Yeah, I just want six
circles of black, right, my down my spine, a
black line that fans out on my butt cheeks. That's my back piece. Yeah. And,
uh, It looks cool. I have a gal at one of my shops that does that.

(20:44):
And I'm like, that's fucking cool. Very elegant, very sexy,
very minimalist. No skull, no
fire, no nothing. I mean, there's a part of me, too. It's like, I'm going to do that for
the next 10 years. Yeah, that sounds great, right? That
sounds really nice. But someone might say, anyone can do that. Well,
I don't know. She's putting that line,

(21:06):
there's just certain very key choices that she's
making and it makes us a little more appropriate. So
there's art there too, but I do think there'll be a revival towards tribal
back to the roots style. Not everybody, but people
are already going that way. And just in general, I think there'll be
a day in the near future where people are going to start valuing more and more

(21:28):
and more analog things. Yeah. You know, it's like I could put
an LCD wall in my house that projects AI
art that feels like I just hit a DMT pipe. Yeah. Um,
but, but the thing is, eventually everyone's going to have a wall like
that in their house, projecting imagery that's similar to that. And you know,
one of the coolest things about art is to be able to say, yeah, I have something unique

(21:50):
that you don't have, you know, this is like a, You
know, so then maybe people are gonna go back to, I want,
you know, analog art, I want a real fucking painting with fucking pubic hair
So maybe, maybe, these are all guesses, but we'll see.
It's definitely a, it's just shifting so fast, it's so interesting. Mostly

(22:12):
Yeah, yeah, well I mean, well that's what's interesting too, is it
is shifting so fast, right? So I don't, I think by the time,
and you always have different mentalities, but I think by the time People
who are stubborn try to catch up to it too. It's already
over. So you have this second
wave of... Copycats. Yeah. But

(22:34):
ultimately... how sci-fi do
we want to get you know I mean if it's like
Mars attacks like sweet you know but if it's like war of the worlds
pretty big yeah it could be it could be a scary future
like it could save us or can kill us it'll probably do

(22:55):
Yeah, well, that's cool. Well, let me, you know, social media,
I mean, I don't want to get into it. It's pretty much what we just said. We
use the word mid-journey and AI, but social media is the homogenization of
our art form as well. At the same time, it simultaneously is pushing
the art forward because as soon as people could check out the coolest tattoo that
was done yesterday in Germany, I'm going to lean on

(23:16):
that a little. And so the growth happened really quickly. But now it's just
a sea of, it's hard to have a voice anymore. It's a lot of
voices there. And I cover that already on a lot
of my shows. It's kind of exhausting, and I think everyone's heard it
already. But moving on, maybe we'll get into some other stuff.

(23:38):
I think it's ridiculous, I think. I'll
try to break it down eloquently. You
know, if you take, you know, someone famous, right? Everyone wants
to tattoo famous people because in their minds it's the best form
of promotion, right? But what makes it any different than tattooing a
normal, you know, not famous person? Nothing, right? Everyone's

(24:01):
making the same commitment. You know, you should be treating people the same. So
these people, it's all a money grab, right? They're coming in, they're not
paying for the, you know, they're not paying the 100 grand to get put under and have five,
six artists do a mediocre tattoo that's rushed on them while
they're put under. And then they're hoping it's
impressive enough to other people that they're going to be like, oh man,

(24:24):
that sounds great. You know, it's incredible. But it just devalues every
aspect of our entire craft, right? There's no communication. There
is no working with the person. There's no taking a break and, you know, shooting
the shit for five minutes. It becomes, now you're just producing.
Now you're
McDonald's, right? The person comes in, I'll

(24:46):
take a number one, you know. Do this, this, this. That's interesting
Let me challenge you a little bit on this one. Let me paint a scenario and have you
react to it. So I have a guy who already
has got a back piece. I'm just painting a story. He's
got two sleeves from two other famous tattooers. He's moved on
in his career. He's not a famous guy. got money

(25:07):
though. He's got kids, a wife and
running a thriving business. And he already
has a relationship with the artist that did his back. They've
been through hundreds of hours together of tattooing. And he calls him
and says, look, I just, I want to finish my front. And
I really, it's a time thing. Like I just want

(25:28):
it done. I don't have going
to you 12, 15 times in me anymore. Is
there any way, I've got the money, I could be put under
and you guys could do this art, you and a couple of other artists,
and we could get it done much more quickly. I mean,
I look at that like, well, first of all, I have a rule in life, it's simple. Anyone

(25:49):
can do anything they want as long as it doesn't hurt another person. Simple.
I mean, I think that one's a huge one. That relates to world wars
and things. You've got people killing each other in the Middle East because they don't believe in...
Basically, people are saying, you should live the way I live. It
escalates to the point of murder. So you can bring it all the
way down to the smallest of things. I don't think you should have blue

(26:11):
hair. It bothers me. You should have hair like me. It
goes back to when I was a punk rock kid. I remember my first thoughts on why I
had blue hair. was just like, fuck you. I'm gonna
have blue hair. Explain to me why that's a problem for you.
And so I have that rule, right? Now, based on that rule,
You have two people. A client can not do

(26:33):
it. Then don't get anesthesia tattoo. A
tattooer can say, I will not do that. Then don't tattoo
someone under anesthesia. But if you've got the client and the tattooer, and
Well, I would say, so the initial question in that analogy are
two different things, right? under what

(26:54):
you just said, for sure, right? If everyone's in
agreeance, if it's just my feeling on
it, right? I guess what you see with
everything in the world, right, is people start devaluing everyone's
effort and time, right? Everyone's trying to be more
important than the other. And what I don't like about anesthesia,

(27:16):
especially, is that even if you can, right, even
if it's a time thing for you, you're not considering, like as
a general concept, you're not considering the artist's time, right? You're
not saying, okay, well, this is a different process than you do every day. I'm
going to interrupt your life, right, and your process because

(27:37):
That's true, but the artist has the ability to say
Right, but yeah, so if you just break it down to a yes
or no, of course, but as a general, I think when
you have places that push it, of course they agree to it,
they wanna do it, you know, but I just, I think it devalues the
process and I think it also kind of puts

(27:59):
this idea in people's heads that like, well if I have the
money, right, I can act this way or do this
because, you know, look at social media. It's all, everything is, is a mind
game, right? So everyone sees the anesthesia tattoos.
They think, well, yeah, that should be offered everywhere. Oh, your shop doesn't
offer anesthesia. Well, you're a lesser shop now. Oh, you, you

(28:19):
know what I mean? I think there's a lot of like scenarios with
it that just, you know, take
I like to be devil's advocate. I'm going to tell you straight up, I'm doing one
for this reason. I don't even know if I'm fully into it either. But
I've always been the type of guy that's like, I'm going to try this. You

(28:40):
know, and the thing with me was, well, first of all, it's me and four other bad
motherfuckers. Right. Because I have seen that. But when you talk about
and under anesthesia and a kind of a half ass tattoo that was rushed. Well,
that my judgment there is I just don't like shitty tattooing. Right. Right. But
if you can put somebody out there choosing in the artist is
choosing it and they walk away with something that's pretty dope. I just

(29:03):
fail to see why not. And but but yeah, but I do hear everything
I'm an old school dude. Yeah. And that might be the thing, too. Right.
You know, like I just you know, you get stuck in your ways. But I
also, I don't know, I don't disagree with
everyone can make a choice. Like, hey, I don't care that people do, but
I also think it's so much in the kind of public

(29:25):
now, right? That I think people need to talk about
scenarios of it, as opposed to it as a general, you
know? Because back to what you said, Everyone should be
able to do what they want. As long as it doesn't hurt or impact anyone else,
do it. But I think we
have to also kind of look at

(29:47):
microcosms of it and be like, is this really a great idea?
And I guess really for me, I keep a super strict
schedule. I know what I'm doing every minute of every day. For
a solid year, I do a year rotation and then a wait list. If
I want to do something, I have to make sure that I'm not impacting the

(30:08):
commitment I made to other people's time. So I
think if someone approached me with like, hey, I want to do this, I'm
going to pay extra for this because my time's valuable, and
I don't have time to do this, I would say, so is mine. I have
the ability to say no. It's just not for me. This
is how we structure it so I can One, keep

(30:29):
giving everything I have to this industry, you know what I mean? But two,
also I have a life, right? You know, like I have to be able to dedicate
some time to that too. So, but then it's just personal choice, you
And it was a good conversation. And I'm happy to have had

(30:49):
it with you. And I'm just, uh, I kind of almost am doing this
I'm sure it's going to be awesome. I'll tell you right now, I might walk out
of this thing and be like, fucking never doing that again. You know, maybe
I learned that I can't create art at the level I expect
me to be able to create it. And believe me, if the art sacrifices, I'm

(31:10):
out. I currently believe with the team I have, we're going to
make some rad art. And I think we will. But
it'll be interesting. I was the first guy to get
the rotaries with batteries. I was the first old dude to start using iPads.
I'm always like, fuck it, let's try it. And some of it works. Actually,
a lot of it has worked. I'm still tattooing with rotaries and batteries on the back of them,

(31:31):
and I'm still using my iPad. And I did an AI, me,
fusion, bodysuit art piece recently. And my friends are
like, you fucking made that? I
toyed with AI, used it as inspiration, made the art on my iPad. So it's this whole
digital fucking bodysuit. I think it's cool looking, but I
thought I was gonna get creamed. And people were like, no, it's fucking cool, man.
I'm like, okay, for sure. So I'm always whatever everyone's getting

(31:55):
a little huffy about, I'm the first guy to be like, let's try it. So that's
just me. But I also like to hear everyone's opinion.
But I agree with you. But in the end, you said what I think, which is, you
don't gotta do it, don't do it. Everyone has a choice here. Do
what you want. That's kind of the core backbone of
the tattoo industry was a world of people that got together that was

(32:15):
saying to the rest of the world, we are going to do whatever we want
and don't judge me. I'm a nice person. If I hurt you
or if I had sex with your wife, we have a problem. Until then,
what's your problem? I have a tattoo on my forehead. What
is your problem? How does this affect you in any way? So
I kind of layer that onto all these different things like anesthesia tattooing.

(32:36):
What is your problem? And you didn't have a problem, but you were just saying, you don't really
like it. It does because it does rob away this deeper thing
we talked about in the beginning, which is this soul connection that
happens in tattooing. Well, Me and this client and four
tattooers working on them. We're not gonna walk away with a super soulful moment Yeah,
we're just going towards like how much can we get done? Yeah, it's a

(32:57):
different thing. Yeah, very cool Tell us how you feel
like why be at a convention is you know, I'm sure
No, not at all. So So, you
know, I've been doing a lot of conventions around the world for many years, right?
And, you know, when you're younger, you have a different kind of hunger for
it. So I understand from every aspect. But, you know, the

(33:18):
whole reason you're supposed to go to a convention is to network,
is to shake hands, is to be around your community, you know? And
you really see that getting lost nowadays. You
know, you see people come in, pop their headphones in. They're gonna
bury themselves in a three-day tattoo to try to win a trophy, and
they're not gonna say hi to anyone. They're not even looking up, you know. They tattoo

(33:42):
for 12 hours, right? Go to bed, wake up, do the same all weekend.
Then they're gone, right? They accomplished nothing. They accomplished
no tangible reason to be
there, but they think they did, right? And then they enter
it, right? You know, they enter their clients there. They just got tortured all weekend. You
know, like, yeah, we're going to win. And they don't win, right? And

(34:02):
it devalues everything, right? The client just sat there for nothing. They
could have had a different experience. You know, you could have let them take a break, you
know? And you didn't do anything either,
right? You did a tattoo. It's probably beautiful. Why?
And there is, like we said earlier, it's fine. But

(34:28):
And the trophies, I've won a few. I kind of backed off the
trophy stuff in a younger year because I just like, this feels so fucking weird.
Yeah. I feel like, what do you mean a trophy? How
do you decide what's the best one? It's so interpretable.
And then of course, I lost a couple that I thought I should have won. I probably won a
couple that I shouldn't have. This is getting fucking weird.

(34:51):
And then, yeah, if you lose one with your client, what
Yeah, yeah, you're both standing there and you're like, oh, buddy,
no, it was rigged. And it's like, but
I agree. It's awkward. I think it's OK to have contests
at a convention for healed work, right? Because it's
a totally different element, you know? But if they just got

(35:13):
rid of Tattoo of the Day and Best of Show, the entire
Tattoo of the Day makes people go insane. Yeah. They
do insane shit. They don't talk to anybody. It really does
take a client and an artist completely out of the community. Chasing
tattoo of the day. Back

(35:33):
when I was young, the tattoo of the day was everyone just ripped a really fun six-hour
piece and we all decided which one was the coolest. Then somebody was like, I'm
gonna get tattoo of the day for sure because I'm doing a back piece in one day
and everyone's going for monster jobs. I
mean, again, do what you want, but yeah, it is a weird one,
Tattoo of the Dads. I've never thought of it like you just said. I kind of agree with

(35:55):
that. Well, very good. Very, very honored
to meet you and to get to know you better. Thank you for making time for the show.
I'll say hi to you when I get back down on the floor. Are you tattooing down there today? Well,
good luck down there. I hope you get tattoo of the day. I'm going
Yeah, you should be. I'm not even going to go to dinner with anyone tonight. I'm just going

(36:19):
Everybody out there if you're into black-and-gray work with a very
Surrealistic vibe, please check out Tony's work Tony Mancilla
at Tony Mancilla on Instagram. Yeah. Okay, very simple
M-a-n-c-i-a. Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you on the
Peace out Chops