Refusal to Lose: A Gift and a Curse ft. Josh Landan

The journey of entrepreneurship, even in tattooing.  where shop owners fight tooth and nail to "make it", is often marked by a series of challenges and uncertainties that test one’s resolve. As discussed in the podcast episode, unwavering commitment and a refusal to give up are essential traits for anyone venturing into the entrepreneurial landscape.

 

Guest Josh Landan emphasizes that while having a clear vision for a business is crucial, it is the commitment to that vision that truly matters. He states, "the unwillingness to give up is real," and candidly admits that he has put himself through "hell" due to his determination to succeed. Josh began his career as a filmmaker, inspired by the surf culture of Southern California. He was deeply influenced by iconic surf movies and the personalities within that world. However, after years of creating films and documentaries, he found himself yearning for a new challenge. This led him to the idea of starting a beer company, St. Archer Brewing, which he envisioned as a brand that truly represented the California lifestyle he cherished—one that encompassed art, film, skating, and surfing.

 

Aaron shares his journey as a tattoo artist and craftsman, building a.  successful tattoo business while alsoexploring his diverse interests, including philosophy, spiritual growth, and experimentation with hallucinogenics. As he navigates the challenges of being a business owner, he expresses gratitude for his supportive wife, Holly, who helps him manage the complexities of entrepreneurship. Tune in for an engaging discussion that celebrates creativity and the entrepreneurial spirit!

 

Chat Breakdown:

[00:02:23] Entrepreneurial journey and sacrifices.

[00:05:13] Transition from filmmaker to entrepreneur.

[00:09:09] Craft beer explosion.

[00:11:16] Craft beer and cultural identity.

[00:16:23] Supportive partners in entrepreneurship.

[00:18:32] Confidence in pursuing dreams.

[00:21:05] Stress and mental health challenges.

[00:27:43] Refusal to lose as motivation.

[00:28:36] Entrepreneur vs. Business Owner.

[00:34:05] Marriage as mutual support.

[00:37:09] Unwillingness to give up.

[00:40:02] Raising money through conviction.

[00:44:13] Creating a business people care about.

[00:48:19] Advice for young people.

[00:49:15] Work ethic in younger generations.

[00:52:48] Entitlement in today's youth.

[00:55:46] AI's impact on future jobs.

[01:01:34] Sci-fi world of technology.

[01:03:05] Youth and societal challenges.

[01:09:16] The impact of negative comments.

[01:10:06] Toxic online environments.

 

Quotes:

"I'm always experimenting trying to do different things trying to get as much out of this fabulous surreal experience of earth that I can taste feel and touch."

"I didn't ask how much money I would make. I didn't care about any of that. I just wanted to film those guys and be a part of it."

 "You can get about an 80% confidence on a decision. Yeah, there's no certainty in anything. And then, what do you have to say at that point? Fuck it."

"I've never done anything for any of them. That's straight up. I did this for me."

"I've done everything that everyone says is like the dream and been the most miserable by a mile."

"The refusal to lose is a gift and a curse, man."

"This marriage is about you're gonna find dreams and passions and I'm gonna back you."

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
when they were talking about this tequila brand, I'm like, well, what about like
a beer? I mean, everybody drinks beer. And how come there's never been a
beer from our culture, like real California, not like
board shorts, Malibu, California, like real California,
art and film and skating and surfing and the outdoors, like
the way we all really live, right? And I thought there's never been

(00:21):
one from us. And like, I can do it. I mean, how hard can it be? It was
I'm feeling something in my spirit.

(00:46):
Hello friends, neighbors. Lovers
of creativity and art. I'm assuming most of you are. If you're watching my
show, you must love art. A lot of artists on this show. I
am a craftsman. I am a tattoo artist. I'm assuming a lot of you got here because
of that. But I do have a lot of other interests in
life. You know, if you listen to the show, a lot of philosophy,

(01:08):
a lot of spiritual growth, a lot of hallucinogenics. I'm
always experimenting trying to do different things trying to get as much
out of this fabulous surreal experience of
earth that i can taste feel and touch. And in that mix
of everything somehow accidentally i guess i became an
entrepreneur never even intended on doing so this was

(01:30):
following my heart. Find myself today owner of three different
companies i gotta be a an owner now i gotta think like
one marketing and budgets and all these things and i'm
learning as i go luckily i have a beautiful amazing and
very intelligent wife at home that holds most of that together so thank
you holly even though she doesn't listen to my shows. I'll

(01:51):
make her listen to this one. So with all that being said, I'm very interested
in all walks of life. And the gentleman I have on today is
a lot of things, but a big part of his story
is his success as an entrepreneur. And that's great. And
there's a lot of them out there. And it's cool to talk to people that crush it
and make money. And that looks great on Instagram. But

(02:13):
you know we had a quick phone call the other day and we were talking about what that
really means you know this man is married to his
wife to fifteen got three kids. And things
might look pretty now but the road to get there has
some major prices to be paid i know i pushed
my family to the brink of the right to the edge in

(02:34):
my entrepreneur life so. Yeah
i think digging into that a little bit and getting down to the realities of
what it really takes to make your dream come true
so we're gonna get into that and much more with that being said.
Please welcome my guest today josh landon thanks
for having me thanks for coming yeah like i said out in the lobby you're

(02:55):
a busy guy i'm honored you're even here i think it should
be said to the audience right now. that you were
You know, from a young age. Still do, still do. You still do. I do.
A lot of pro surfers, skaters, these types of folks.
Yep. But then at some point, you decided, I'm
going to go start a beer company. And then that's when you came to San Diego. You

(03:19):
developed and founded St. Archer Brewing, which
got sold to Coors. You went on to Harlan Brewing, which that
has been sold to other interests. And then that led into your,
the premier flagship of Ashland Seltzers, which
is not a plug. I drink regularly. Thank you.
Well, I can't, I mean, hey. Can't drink a

(03:40):
ton of beers anymore. No. I hear you. It's a calorie. I hear
you. Calories and also sugar. Yeah.
They're great. And I want to say this. I mean this. You
have the best tasting seltzer on the market. I've tried them all. I appreciate it. They
don't taste fake. They don't have that diet coke kind

(04:00):
of after Burn or whatever you want to call it. So congratulations
on making a quality product. Thank you. I mean, I think that's a game that
everybody would like to play in. It's obviously like everybody, I've
met like so many, I'm going to make a beer cut. Everybody wants to get in there, right? Yeah.
And so it's an easy landscape to just be there for the wrong reasons
maybe. But I do believe you must have put some heart and soul

(04:24):
And we'll get into that, because I have some questions, not now, but I have some questions about what
Because I don't even know sometimes when I'm drinking, I'm like, is this a beer, a mo liquor?
What am I drinking? I don't know. I like a boo. Give me another one. This episode
is brought to you by Sullen Clothing. I just
got to let you know if you're into tattoo art and you're into

(04:46):
Rad clothing. Check out sullenclothing.com. Ryan and
Jeremy, good friends of mine, huge supporters of the tattoo industry, huge
supporters of the tattoo culture and art culture. So,
great human beings and they have some amazing clothes. Go check
them out. sullenclothing.com now. back to the show. But let's
start from a little bit from the beginning. I like to hear a little, you know, it's always such

(05:07):
an interesting story when someone gets to a place in their life
with this level of success that you've created for yourself, how you go from
being a young filmmaker to a,
you know, alcohol beverage mastermind. Yeah.
I'll let you go from there and we'll find some interesting things to segue off
Yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Ventura, just south of

(05:28):
Santa Barbara in Southern California. And, you know, grew
up surfing, like kind of skating, surfing, you know, typical kind
of Southern California lifestyle. And quickly realized I was not
going to be a pro surfer. That was pretty obvious when
I was in high school. And I fell in love with Taylor Steele's surf
movies, who's from Solana Beach, and

(05:50):
fell in love with everything about it. It's funny, like, was
inspired by the surfers in them, but
more inspired by Taylor Steele, which probably wasn't
as common, right? And I'm like, God, making surf movies
seems like would be like the best thing in the world. And

(06:10):
maybe not even like making my own film, just working for
Taylor and traveling around the world and filming
all these surfers. It just so happened growing up in Ventura, you
know, the Malloy brothers, Chris Keith and Dan and Timmy Curran and
Bobby Martinez, obviously Tom Curran in Santa Barbara, you
know, and a very young Dane Reynolds. You know, I was fortunate

(06:32):
just to grow up there and be around those guys. So, I
kind of saved up and got myself a camera and right
out of high school. I didn't go to college. I was a horrible student. And
then I played water polo, which is really the
only thing that probably kept me from flunking out of
high school. And then my now wife,

(06:54):
my girlfriend at the time, Janine, we've been together, like you
said, since we were 15. And we both went to Ventura College,
community college. She did all of my homework and like, I
didn't even get an AA, but if I was going to get one, it
would have been because of her. But once I kind of started, got
a camera and just started showing up at the beach. And then, you know, Keith

(07:14):
Malloy showed up one day and I just happened to film a couple of waves of
him. And he said, Hey, Taylor Steele's making a new movie. Do
you want to film me and my brothers up here? You should give him a call." Wow.
And I went, it's the only call I've ever been nervous to make in my life. All
this stuff later, I was like shaking to
call Taylor Steele. And he said, yeah, man, I'd be happy to have you film

(07:35):
those guys. I'm making a new movie and, you
know, much different than today's world. Like, I didn't ask how much money I
would make. I didn't care about any of that. I just wanted
to film those guys and be a part of it. And then, like, kind
of one thing led to another, right? I made my first film when I was 21 called
Ark on Taylor Knox's Life Story. Is a pro

(07:55):
surfer is a pro surfer from carlsbad and then made
i don't know six or seven more films documentaries that
are all based around surfing and snowboarding or skateboarding. I
want a lot of film festivals and was like a working filmmaker started
doing music videos and my manager is a director was pat
magnarella who's green days manager and the dolls and.

(08:17):
So I was like, I was doing it. I was doing it. I mean, as
I, you know, I was doing it for, from 18 to like 32, you know,
I got married in there, had
two kids in there and was living in Ventura. Like we, we,
my wife went to San Diego state. So when I was making, when
I really started filming for Taylor, All time and i

(08:38):
started making films on my own we're actually living in san diego and
then jenny was living in mission beach and i was living right
below usd. And then her mom got sick we move
back to ventura and then stay there and until i had the idea for
saint archer which. was as random as it gets
i mean it was i wanted to explore that i mean you just described a

(08:58):
dream scenario a lot of people know connected with
the right people, doing things you love even
to this day if you ask me what's harder being an alcohol
entrepreneur like a working filmmaker i mean it's a toss
up. You know, like making a living being a filmmaker is not
easy. I don't know, you know, and of course now, like now,

(09:19):
you know, all the investor, a lot of investors I have are like agents in
Hollywood and own studios and run studios and actors.
And I'm like, where were all you guys when I was like. Mid-twenties i was
like trying to get like featured gigs and commercial gigs and it's
funny how that works but but yeah i was on a surf trip with taylor
knox and for the search event in puerto rico well

(09:40):
that weekend andy irons passed away. Yeah.
So it was literally that weekend, a tequila brand, you
know, wanted to have those guys involved. And, and when they,
we were just talking about it and I thought about a beer and, and I had
some friends down here in San Diego that were like, you know, talking about

(10:10):
No, it was going nuts right then. That was the nutty time. Yeah, it was like Ballast
Point was like just about to go nuclear with
the Sculpin. Right. You know, Green Flash was selling a ton of
beer. Stone was selling a ton of beer. Karl Strauss was
selling a ton of beer back then. You know, like the legend of
craft beer here, Karl Strauss. And so yeah, like

(10:31):
St. Archer really like was on the tail end of like
the craft beer explosion, really. We just happened to be
the first one to sell it, which is funny. Like we were last to show up
and first to sell, you know? But
I think when they were talking about this tequila brand, I'm like, well, what
about like a beer? I mean, everybody drinks beer. And how come there's never

(10:51):
been a beer from our culture, like real California, not
like board shorts, Malibu, California, like real
California, art and film and skating and surfing and
the outdoors, like the way we all really live, right? And I
thought there's never been one from us. And like, I can do it. I mean, how

(11:16):
But it's like, yeah, I was, you know, my kids were little. I have a
very supportive wife and I looked at the
brands on the shelf and none of them spoke to me. What's
crazy is coming from surfing and skateboarding, if you participate
in that lifestyle, chances are you know pretty much everything
about the companies that are involved in that, right? Whether it's

(11:38):
different brands in skating like Girl or any of the
brands that we were attracted to, Supreme, or
Volcom and Quicksilver and Hurley and all the
brands, I know everything about them. And not just because my friends are
involved with them, but it's like, I know everything about them. And I'd
look at these craft beer businesses that we were drinking all the time and

(12:05):
Yeah. There was no like, or like, if you think about it, like how often
are craft beer or, you know, back then, how
often was like craft beer speaking to you outside of
the shelf? Never. Yeah. Right. Only Bud
and Coors, Miller, right? Perhaps a little bit Corona for
sure. Like, you know, those even Modelo wasn't doing what it's doing

(12:26):
now. Right. So I just looked at that and went, I
could create a brand, like a real brand that could compete
with these folks. And, um, when you don't know
what you don't know, you're just like, yeah, I
Fuck it. I mean, there's a lot to be said for, like, having

(12:50):
I always say, like, fuck it's my favorite mantra. It
really is a mantra for me. Yeah, it is. And I think about all the good decisions that
ended up being wonderful things in my life. Because the
thing about that is there is no guarantees with any decision. There's no
guarantees the woman you marry is going to be with you for life. There's no guarantees having
children and they're going to love you and you're going to love them back. Businesses, you

(13:12):
can only, I tell people all the time, you can get about an 80% confidence
on a decision. Yeah, there's no certainty in anything. And then, what do
you have to say at that point? Fuck it. Yeah, I
I love that. I mean, I couldn't agree more. So I,
that was, jumped into, I went home and told my
wife, I'm quitting making movies and I'm going to do St. Archer. I

(13:33):
wasn't even like a big drinker. So it wasn't your traditional story of,
you know, I'm brewing beer in my bathtub. And then I got a
storage unit and then I got a blah, blah, blah, blah.
That wasn't it for me. It was I want
to make a beer brand because I feel like I can
compete and I want to do it in San Diego because I want to

(13:55):
do it. I want it to be sink or swim. I don't want to
be the biggest fish in small town Ventura. I
want to be a big fish in the big pond. And
so I'm going to go put my balls on the line in San Diego, which was,
was, I don't even think you may, you can dispute it maybe a little bit with Portland, but
this is a crappier capital of the U S especially then I got,

(14:17):
you can't really not sure you could really argue that. So it
was like the most competitive situation you could put yourself in. You
know, luckily for me, the next weekend after I had the
idea, I was with Mikey Taylor, who was a pro skateboarder and, At
the time, the face of DC Shoes, Paul Rodriguez, who's
one of the most famous skateboarders of all time, and the face of Nike, I

(14:40):
told them my idea. And if it wasn't for Mikey and
Paul coming in to help me, they
put in the first $250,000 to even get
me to move down to San Diego, to get the business started,
to even put us in a position to raise three million dollars
which i didn't even know what a capital raise was i

(15:01):
had no idea i didn't know how to set up a company i didn't know how to do
anything i didn't know anything about beer i didn't know anyone in
the beer business and i just moved down here i love that man i
mean this is just a testament to a strong enough vision and
belief in something yeah the other pieces have fallen to place eventually
yeah they did and and a wife who like You know,

(15:21):
like I was telling you the other day, you know, a lot of people, you
know, male or female, husband or wife or spouse, whatever it
is, their dreams die with the other person. So
like, in a lot of cases, I would have said that to my wife and
a lot of women or a lot of men, if the roles are reversed, would have
said, are you nuts? We have two little kids, three
years old and six months. We're all of our best friends are

(15:44):
in this city. Our, our family's in this city. Like you want to move us to
do something you don't know anything about? No. Yeah. And
she was like, I'll find us a place to live. That was it. She's still
to this day, the only person in my life that's never
said to me, what if this doesn't work out? Never said it. Not
Wow. Kudos to Janine. I got one like that too.

(16:08):
And like I was saying, not to go kind of totally off subject, but
I think that's what makes it hard too when you have somebody that supportive and
you're putting them through the ringer. They're supporting you and
you're making it hard on them. That's a gnarly place
Yeah, you know, as I was going to say, ma'am, but it could be a woman or
a man, but there's like some of the bread winning, um, role

(16:31):
falls on to usually sometimes it's both, but usually one person. And
in my family, it was me and your family. It sounds like it was you. And, and
when you want to put that all at risk, you know, cause
that's, you, you go to bed with that stress.
Like, they're counting on me to get them somewhere in
life, to pay this mortgage, to make sure they go to college one day. And

(16:52):
I'm out here risking all of it. And I'm like, there's
a possibility to fail here. And what's that going to mean to
my family? What's that going to mean to me and my own self-esteem? And
what's that going to do to us? So it's an all or nothing moment
Yeah, it's funny too. Like, you know, if I was giving you the honest answer,
I would say, I've never done anything for any of them.

(17:14):
That's straight up. I did this for me. Like I did this because
of my drive and what I wanted to do. And
like, you know, a lot of times I think when people not saying you're not
being truthful, but I think a lot of times when people say, well, I want
to do this for the kids and blah, blah, blah. Do you? Or are
you just like, you want to say that, but it's really always been about

(17:35):
you. And like the fact that you had things that you
wanted to do and you have that personality that like, Like
I was saying, it's like you're an addict. You almost can't even help it,
right? You have these things in you that you have to
do. Like, I have to do this. And that could be driven by, you
know, something materially that you want, like insecurity.

(17:57):
Maybe you want approval. Maybe you want whatever, whatever it
is, whatever's driving you. I never did it for them. And that's
It is honest. And I agree with you. When I look at my own career, I
needed to be an artist. I needed to be a tattoo artist. It led to all these different things, but
it was definitely coming from my dream. And
I happen to have a wife who was cool with taking that

(18:19):
ride with me. But I mean, at the same time, I knew
that my dream at least had the possibility
of providing for a family. You know, you got people out there that follow a
For sure gonna fuck the family that's like I think the difference is like
the confidence we have in our ability to be successful I never
I knew I was gonna be successful like I

(18:43):
never I never, even when I was young, when
I was 17, 18 years old, I was never like, you
know, I'm going to have this job or that job or these run of the mill careers. And
there's nothing wrong with that. That just wasn't in me. I
always knew that I was going to be successful no matter what
I was going to do. I just didn't know exactly what it was. But I never

(19:04):
wanted to just kind of do the status quo. You
know, I always wanted to go against the grain. And if you told me I
couldn't do it like everyone has fucking told me I was doing it
You need a little bit of that spirit to succeed in these realms. Definitely. No
doubt. I mean, you're, you know, starting off as a young filmmaker, already
you're proving that's the type of guy you are. You're just like, it's kind

(19:27):
of like what's the same with me. I remember people around me being like, you're
It's 30 years ago. You're going to be broke your whole life? You cool with
And I'd be like, fuck yeah, I am cool with it, you know? Because I mean,
Thank God for them. And I know you're the same way. I knew if
I was to do that stuff, it would have killed me. Oh, I for sure. I would

(19:49):
have become depressed. Just having a boss. Yeah, even
I couldn't have pulled it. I've only had one job. I bus
tables and then bartended a little bit at a place called Brophy's in Santa
Barbara. It's like a little fish restaurant in
the harbor. That was the only place I've ever had like a real job.
You know, actually I enjoyed it because I maybe I knew like that was

(20:12):
like my only and like looking back there's something nice about just
There's something nice about that. I haven't experienced it since, but um...
But yeah, anyways, yeah, it was... It's a trade-off, right? To be
an entrepreneur, there's all these benefits, right? Freedom being
the biggest. Well, I want to say freedom, but man, we

(20:34):
do have bosses, us guys. Definitely. There are requirements
every day that you can't miss. So in a way, there's a boss, an
unseen boss in there somewhere. It's on you. But we do
have the freedom. Like if I absolutely need that week off, I'd fucking
take it. I don't need to ask anybody. But you do carry
with you I don't like to use the word stress because

(20:56):
i have a new belief that stress doesn't exist just and
i hate even. Acknowledging to my own self that it's real because
i think it's a made up thing that we attach ourselves i was gonna
ask you about that because the path you took a lot of people would
say that's a highly stressful path it was it is. And
on that note, let's talk about stress. I always

(21:17):
say this, what is stress? I go, well, let me think how I'm feeling right now. Some
would call this stress. What am I feeling? I'm feeling some anxiety. I'm
feeling like there's a lot to do. I'm not quite sure how to get
it all done. And I just sort of break it down into these pieces and
I don't it's not stress anymore It's just a little bit of a
uncomfortable uneasy feeling a lot of my play Not

(21:37):
quite enough time to get it all done. And then I just look at it and
call it that Yeah, and don't even use that s word. Yeah, you know and
I mean i've had mental health Challenges for you
know, probably since my early 20s. I'm 45 now mild
depression generalized anxiety, OCD,

(21:59):
you know, I think a lot of the reasons why I've been successful is because of
Um, it's also made my life and people around me is life really
challenging. You know, you're dealing with someone that you're
going up and down often. Right.
And you kind of, you're, if you're in
that kind of circle, you're riding those waves with

(22:23):
them. And most people don't want to do that. And so I
think, you know, when you're OCD and you have all these, like,
you know, that's the reason why all these things have gotten off the ground. That's
the reason why they've been so successful is because I can't stop.
Right. I can't turn it off. And at least I
couldn't. I've gotten much better at it now, you know, like, but

(22:44):
struggled for 20 years with it, man, for sure. Even
if you asked me, was it worth it? I would say, I'm not sure. I'm not
sure it's worth it. Cause I can tell you, you know, I've gotten
everything that I've sold companies. I've done everything that everyone
says is like the dream and been the most miserable by
a mile, had a miserable wife, had a

(23:05):
miserable, like I, so I've like the cliched story.
Everybody that, you know, says that's wealthy or like how's that they're
miserable. It happens, you know, especially when you're not really motivated
by that. I wasn't motivated by the material. I
just couldn't, it's like was an obsession and a competitive drive.
So then when you get all this stuff and you're still miserable, you're going, dude.

(23:28):
Yeah, fuck. You know, and then you're still going
on the ups and downs. So then you're like, I would say, like, I
started more and more brands just as like a fix to
like engage me again. I'm busy. I'm distracted
when really you're just making it worse, you know, and you're making

(23:50):
So I want to back that up a little bit because first of all this OCD thing.
Because I look at my own nature, I'll guarantee you if they had
Me too. And I would have been told that by a school counselor. Oh
for sure. And then they would have recommended me be on probably some
medications. For sure. I would have, even worse than the medications

(24:13):
they would have put me on, I would have probably took that on as an
identity. See, I never was, I never even knew what that shit was.
I would look at myself and just say, well, I'm just, I'm just hyperactive.
Or I'm just ultra creative. I have to get, I get, I
dive into this project and I can't look up until it's done. And
I just didn't see it as a bad thing. I always looked at that behavior

(24:35):
as, Well, that's good. I mean, I work with these guys over
here. They can't even focus for more than two hours. They have to, they have to
quit. I'll go fucking four days straight. So I
guess I'm going back to like, when I look at the, you know, I was just on a phone call with
a friend of mine and, uh, he's having problems, you know, divorced and his
daughter doesn't speak to him anymore. And, uh, it's a long story,
but you know, she'd been going to these counselors. They've diagnosed her with

(24:59):
a bipolar disorder order and OCD. They've got
her on, meds right now, you know, her self-esteem is,
she's a freshman in high school, self-esteem is through the floor because she's attached. And
I just think of it like, is this, all this labeling and counseling,
I mean, I know, listen, I got to be careful here. A lot of people listening,

(25:20):
I know there's probably pretty extreme cases. For sure. It's warranted,
but I just think it's over prescribed and,
I agree. I think with me, I think it's like, I
think you can say it depends on the person. So, so for me,
when I actually accepted that I have all

(25:40):
this stuff, like the self-awareness of how you act
and how you treat other people and how, you know, how you
treat yourself and like the, the, the self-talk in
your head, like, and when someone finally started telling
me, no, no, no, this is like what you're, This is like how
you act towards me. You need to hear it. And

(26:01):
like I was, I'm a compassionate person. And
so when I hear that I'm hurting somebody, if I'm not like meaning
to do it, then I go, holy shit, I do do all that stuff. I've
never done medication. I'm not against it. I
just have never, I've never done it. I think there's people that
need it. Like you, you do need it. I, I get nervous

(26:22):
about being dependent on it. And like to
be honest, I get nervous about like, does it take, if
it slows everything down, does it take my
drive away? Does it make me like not care?
Well, I don't have a choice. I have to fucking care.
I have tens of millions of dollars of

(26:43):
people's money for these things to be successful. So
Yeah. You don't see it. It isn't an option.
It's not in the cards for me. And then that's
hard, right? Because you want to do that
for yourself and other people, just turn off sometimes. It's

(27:03):
Something yeah i go through these and i'm in a not that level and
i'm not responsible for investors money which i
have friends it done what you've done. And i know i
can almost put myself in that shoes like cuz i would take it you know you see
some people don't take the two million dollar investment and you can tell in their
mind. You're like thanks for the money i'll do the best i can and
then there's other folks like you and me. I

(27:26):
would be, I would take that so personally. Like, thank you for the money and
I would say, you know, I take it very seriously. I'm
like, they, they're believing in me, right? So, you
know, the refusal to lose is a gift and a curse,
man. You know, like, and it's a real thing. And that's, that's

(27:47):
like what we were talking about from an entrepreneur's perspective. These
are all the things that like, Why don't believe you can
go to school to learn to be an entrepreneur it's either like a
burning desire in you i also would have never told you when i
started saying archer. That i was an entrepreneur i
started one business that's not an entrepreneur your business

(28:08):
owner and it wasn't until i sold it to cores and.
Was like i have more brands in me. that I
want to like, I want to do that. I, there's, there's other things I
want to do. And now if I was just a business owner, which is
totally fine, I would have just stayed at St. Archer. I have plenty of friends
that have sold their businesses and they work there for 20 years. And

(28:36):
There's only three real options, right? You're an employee, you're
a business owner, or you're an entrepreneur. And so I think
like people, they want to be the entrepreneur because
it's sexy, but it's the least sexy
of the three because of what it does to you and the
people around you. You know because you're a

(28:58):
driven, very heady place to live.
There's a big difference. Because if I was an entrepreneur, I would already be
selling my current businesses, taking it on to the next project,
the next project, where I tend to just grow my current businesses. I
never really broke it down like that in my own mind. And it

(29:21):
does take a different, you are of a different nature than
me, because I'm quite comfortable building my little businesses
and curating them and just being papa and my
wife's mama. It's comfortable and I enjoy it, but
I don't have this overwhelming urge to be like, all right, what's the next project? Let's
Yeah, that's me. It's like you, like I'm

(29:42):
saying, you're an addict and you have to create more
and more to satisfy that urge. And
for me, it's businesses, it's brands. And it doesn't necessarily
have to be booze. I have a ton of other stuff in my head that has
nothing to do with alcohol. It's just like constantly building.
Do you see a day where that part of you kind of

(30:06):
Yeah, I'm getting there. Is it just age maybe? Yeah, I
think so. And like just priority on my family. You
know, it's an interesting thing because if you ask me what's
the most important thing to you i would say my wife and kids and
it's not close but at the same time i'm not doing any of it for
them but they're the most important thing which which kind of shows

(30:27):
it's like this inner demon in you right you you just you you
like can't not do it but this is what you
love the most and i've always been a hands-on dad
and i've always i like I would say I'm
best at being a dad. I could be a better husband. And
I think I want to put more into that. And

(30:49):
I feel like I know how to do all this. And I have great
people around me. So it's starting to
calm down a little bit. And I think when you run
hot for 25, 30 years, you just get
tired. I can't even imagine what I've done to myself. physically
from like, you know, a legitimate 20 years of

(31:10):
high-level stress. I'm sure I've just torched
my... But you never know, some people like, you know, everybody always says, you
know, it's too much. You're doing, it's too much. You know, everyone,
all my friends, all my... It's too much. But it's not too much
for me. You know what I mean? It's like, it might be too much
for everyone else, but it doesn't feel like it's too much

(31:31):
for me. And honestly, I'm in a better headspace when I'm
busy than when I'm just like, kind of looking around going,
No. No, like golf? I hate golf. I don't like golf either. You know,
like I'm not, and I, I surf now, like I don't need to go hang at
the beach all day. Right. You know, so like, I don't, That's

(31:52):
not me. Like, I do enjoy it. I think it's
like, I've had to learn how to enjoy it. And
Yeah, and you were talking about what it does to
a family. I agree. But I mean, to me, it's
how you define marriage. For me, it's like me

(32:13):
and my wife are here to support each other in their dreams,
right? I mean, luckily, we have a lifestyle that we do get
a lot of time together. But I mean, if my wife told me one day, I
want to become a mountain climber and I need to spend four months
in Nepal, My answer would simply be all right. Yeah,
sounds good. Yeah, but I this marriage isn't about like me capturing

(32:34):
you Yeah, and and having you at home cooking me dinner. This
marriage is about You're gonna find dreams and and passions and
i'm gonna back you. Yeah, go do you yeah, you should do the same for me for sure And
when it comes to the kids, because I've definitely, my wife, a little
more has said things to me, like crying and saying the
things we've missed because of our busy schedules with our businesses, we should have
been here for this and been here for that. And I, maybe I'm just

(32:57):
defending myself, but I look at it, like, look at what we're teaching
these, look at, they're watching two people live to
their fullest. And I think that's of more value than
me being at every parent teacher conference and all these
Yeah, I just know you're worried. I mean, dude, you're working hard. I think it's like, you
know, you're working hard, you know, like my my kids have

(33:20):
seen that. And with me and I mean, Janine has
a hard job with them, like just being with them, being a stay
at home. It's hard. It's like the most thankless job, you
know, and she you know, they don't really appreciate her
always being there for them and doing things for them. Like, wow, I never had
that. My parents were never around. They will when they get older. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So

(33:42):
I think like, I've always said too, like if there was a time where,
if it was like, hey, Josh, it's like us or
like you doing more businesses. I think a lot of people like
me choose like, this is who I am. I'm going to work and blah, blah, and you're not
going to stop it. And that's why I see a lot of these guys or girls, I
guess, getting divorces and they have multiple divorces. I would choose

(34:03):
them over the businesses in two seconds. There is no scenario in
which they would come after my desire
to create more. Never. It pales in comparison, the
And you're lucky to have a wife who understands you. She understands how you're wired.
She knows that you're better off out there doing these

(34:26):
Just like on vacation. Like we're in Hawaii. We love Hawaii. We've been going
there since we were kids and Hawaii's meant so much to us. But like, She
knows that i in the morning just let me like be on the phone for
like a couple hours before everyone gets up and i do some emails and
like work, i'll be have the best vacation like turning
it off for like ten days no, it's just not in the cards one

(34:47):
of the benefits of being with someone since you were fifteen she knows you
better than you know you without question without
question that's cool that's a perfect marriage right there yeah you know
We're all working on it, man. You work on it till the day
It's a lot of work. That's so true. Yeah. And when I

(35:08):
tell, I, I, I interact with a lot of younger folks that are starting off
in life, buying houses and just getting going and they'll
come in and I'll be tattooing and they'll tell me about how they argue or the
things that aren't good. And I'm like, it sounds pretty normal, dude. I mean, that's
just, This blissful idea of finding your soulmate and
most of the time everyone's getting along and most of the time everyone's pretty

(35:29):
happy Like that's I have a great marriage. I love my wife.
She loves me, I think and And we you
That means no one gives a shit or you're bottling it up Yeah, I mean like that's
even worse and then you find out something else happened Yeah, you know
like so yeah, I've never we've always had you know, you're gonna

(35:49):
Very true very good get a little marriage advice i
agree i agree let me ask you you know all this i
don't know what i call it the manifest manifest your dream visualize
your dream you know and i'm not talking shit because i read
a lot of those books and i do think there's value in. Visualization
you know i go to bed at night and i have a little prayer that i do

(36:11):
or i'll just close my eyes and i just picture what
i want my life to look like in five years to ten years and not just just
business and money it's you know what are me and my wife
doing how are my kids doing how's my health where am i living what's
all of it look like so and i and i've done that my whole life i was
a young man my dad sent me to some seminar in like seventh grade it

(36:31):
was for adults and they they were teaching this it's like 35 years
ago and some of it stuck with me and I think and I look around
at the life I have today and it's very similar to these these
visualizations So I don't want to discount it But I do believe
there's a I see sometimes in the younger generation that
they think that's it, right? that's how you get stuff you

(36:52):
just you dream and you think and it happens and in
talking to somebody who's been through the real shit and
Speak to that a little bit. What does it take to really conquer difficult
I think when you have a vision for whatever the business is that
you want to do, that's just there. So I have it and then it's there.

(37:16):
But the unwillingness to give up is real. And
I've put myself through hell just because I refuse
to lose. And I don't even really
celebrate the wins. I just don't want to lose i
just hate losing and so how hard are you gonna push yourself
and i think a lot of people like what does that even mean like you're just constantly

(37:39):
you know my wife are sitting here or anyone who's worked with me closely. Would
say he's constantly thinking of
what to do constantly and it might be like a crisis moment
it might just be like a regular day. I'm always,
it never stops. And if there's problems, I'm
always thinking of how to fix them. And I'll

(38:01):
never say, maybe we should just, you know, you know, it's not going to
work out. You know, I just haven't, and like to a fault, to a fault.
There's been a lot of times with these businesses, people would have thrown the towel in man, for
sure, for sure. And i just like it and
that's just like that's what i mean about not being able to learn it
you know like it's like being a filmmaker it's like being a storyteller. Are

(38:23):
you a storyteller because you can learn how to
use the camera and light it and edit it like that's like
trade stuff you want to be a film director you
want to be a writer that's you don't learn that man. are
do you want to visually tell a story through film from
motion picture or photography or do you do you want to write it

(38:46):
and like have people imagine it because I don't feel like you can really
teach like the great ones they might go to college but
Steven Spielberg isn't like the greatest filmmaker because he went
to USC I don't even think he went to film school. I'm
not sure. So like a lot of these guys, like you can think of a million of them,
right? There's a million amazing filmmakers, you know, like

(39:07):
it was just in them. You know, I think people go to college because they think they're
supposed to and everyone's telling them they should. I don't think, I would say
That's true so i think like but having this unwillingness to
lose there's been a lot of studies on this and they indicate exactly
what you said it's um the stick to it factor yeah

(39:28):
you know it's not about your connections your charm your
your maybe you got some family money that you know they did all these factors it
still helps yeah but the ones who really get somewhere that's
remarkable yeah just you know never give up one way to
put it These studies indicate more like, look, you don't
have to crush every day, but you've got to get up every day and keep at

(39:51):
You know what people ask me most is, like, how have you raised all this money? You know,
how have you raised, you know, $60 million over the last 10 years
for all these alcohol businesses? And I've never done it through one private
equity fund, not one family office, just people like
me and you. $25 grand here, $100 grand here, $200 grand there, just like this right here, man.

(40:13):
And so that takes a lot of work instead of
just having someone try and write you like a big check. But for me,
when I'm telling the story of my brands and
like what I'm going to do with them, people just believe that I'm
going to do it. Yeah. When I was raising money for St. Archer, think
about the position I put myself in. If I was sitting in front of you talking about

(40:33):
this beer company, And I, like, have all the conviction in the world. I'm
gonna do this. Then I'm gonna fucking do this. And then I'm gonna blah blah blah.
And then when I say, I moved my family down here, I have
to succeed. Like, there's no, like, I'm
winning. So, like, there is no, like, this is not
working out. It's not in the cards for me. You go, dude,

(40:54):
I believe this. I mean, I believe this, dude. And
that's not like, you don't learn how to talk
to somebody with passion and conviction at
school. It's either it's you or it's not. And
it's not a salesman shit. I'm not a salesman. I just believe
in what I'm doing. I hate sales. I hate going

(41:16):
to functions. I never network and do all that
shit. I don't do anything like that. And
like, I, you know, it just, when I get people talking and
I'm talking about what I'm passionate about, they go, I believe
Yeah. It's infectious. I can feel a little bit just sitting here with
And so like, if you, but. I wouldn't say like I didn't learn

(41:38):
that from my parents. That's for sure. Both my parents, my
mom went to Penn, made herself an attorney, you
know, single mother, like just grinding. But
like went all the right way, went to college. Obviously
Penn is an amazing college and then this and then this and

(41:58):
And supported me all the way through which is huge but it's like i
didn't learn it anywhere it's your authentic self it's
true you when you talk to somebody in and they're being authentic and
they're speaking. Truth that's different sales right sales
is convincing somebody of something that you
kinda maybe believe in a little bit that's why they called selling. Yeah.

(42:20):
This is a different story. This is you just being yourself. Yeah.
And, uh, it's palpable. And yeah, I mean, if I was sitting in a room with
a guy that had that vibe, had a good idea, I'd probably
Yeah. And it's like, do you just believe, like, is this dude going to do
whatever it takes? Cause everybody that I've sat in
front of, they don't know anything about the alcohol business. Why should they?

(42:42):
Not what they do for a living. They go, I believe
in Josh. And I think like, and I take that shit seriously. Like
it's, I think that, that ties into the refusal to lose because
they believe in me. They believed in me to do everything at
all costs. And sometimes you just lose, man. Like if,
if like, I would be okay if you guys all drank

(43:04):
these and I came in here today and you guys went, you know what, man, Ashland fucking
sucks. And like, I can understand why nobody buys it anymore. And
like, if everybody just stopped buying it, okay, we thought it
was a good idea, it wasn't. And like, you lost. But like,
losing because of our mistakes? Not in the
Well, I mean, there's power in that, man. Believing in

(43:27):
something so passionately that obstacles tend to
There's always an answer, man. The only thing you can't answer is like, if
our sales staff calls me and goes, nobody wants it, it just doesn't sell. You
can't force people to drink it. I can't force you guys to like it.
Everything else you can fix. Everything. But you can't, that's
why I always say like, If your brand sells, it's

(43:50):
priceless because you can't buy people
I mean how many businesses have had like tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars and
nobody gives a shit and it just goes away all the time. All
the time. So it's like really if you can create a business that people care about

(44:13):
And a good product. Yeah. Yeah. You have to give a shit. Yeah. You know,
like you have to give a shit. I'm sure there's plenty of, uh, seltzer companies right
now just throwing together some sauce and getting it on the shelf. And
Really good. And on that note, you know, silly
question, but I do drink seltzers. I've come to drink seltzers,

(44:33):
trying to not put on the pounds, you know, trying to
Yeah. Um, how did, what is, what is, I don't even know.
Yeah, what is it? Yeah, yeah. How do you make it? So ours is a little bit
different. It's just, and I mean, when we were, when,
when we had the idea for Ashlyn, it was like, you know, Trulia and White Claw was
malt based. Okay. That's the difference. So it was malt based, but this is

(44:56):
sugar based. So basically you're fermenting sugar to
create the alcohol. Okay. And it's like a cleaner, right?
And then we're not adding a sweetener. We're not really at, it's like an
essence. Like it's basically, that's what it's called. It's like a flavor. It's
an essence of a flavor. That's why I like when you drink them, it's like a
hint of it. Right. Like whatever your favorite, you know, just non-alcoholic

(45:17):
seltzer is. It's like a hint of flavor, right? Um,
So is White Claw a seltzer? It is, yeah. So a
seltzer can be malt-based or sugar-based? Yeah. Okay.
Yep. Are those the only two ways? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I
guess when you go beyond that, then you get into like the, you know, vodka
seltzers and even then, like, it's not just

(45:44):
Yeah, it's like a grain-neutral spirit,
essentially. And then a lot of folks, like Cutwater
has really great stuff. It's a little too sweet for me in most cases, but
like the quality has always been
great. And like Yousef, who was the founder, is like, he's a
freaking mastermind at making amazing stuff like that. But

(46:06):
like most canned cocktails, they're doing green neutral and
So you're not getting a seltzer with a shot of tequila. God, no.
That's kind of what I thought. No, too expensive. Yeah. You
But when you're talking about Cut Water and they're making the Mai Tai or
the Gin and Tonic, is that gin in

(46:29):
Yeah. That is more of a cocktail in a can. Yeah. And
they're using some of that too, but like their product's just better. And now they're
owned by Anheuser-Busch. You know, the product is
just really good. You know, they've always been the highest quality stuff,
In that realm, I do like to cut water. But with you, like you, a little
too sweet for me. I like something a little more dry. So

(46:50):
can people make, like, you know, people get in-home beer
I haven't seen an at-home one. Maybe because people,
like, think it's lame. You know, like, seltzer's not as
cool as beer. Seltzer's not cool. like there's no
there and i think it's because like with beers you can have like a bunch
of different flavors you can have your ipa and a pilsner and blah blah blah

(47:13):
whatever you want with these if i said hey man i only have
the orange cream school you're like well my favorite flavors strawberry
short you're like well just give it to me i'll drink it right and seltzer doesn't
really matter whereas like if you want an ipa you probably don't want
True. Yeah, I never thought of it that way. In the beer realm, you're
really dancing around these distinctly different crafty,

(47:37):
That's why you see Cutwater with like 35 different canned cocktails
when you go to Vons, right? Because like if you're going in and you're
a Cutwater fan and you love their gin and tonic, you don't want,
if they're only offering you a margarita pack, you go, well, I
don't want a pineapple margarita. I want a gin and tonic. So
then they had to make a canned cocktail for like every single favorite

(47:58):
person's drink from a Long Island to a, I mean, they have a trillion
SKUs, but that's because with canned cocktails,
Learn a little bit about the alcohol game. Very
interesting. I want you to kind of give some, I don't know, maybe some
words of wisdom or advice for young people that want to get

(48:19):
out in this big bad world and make it. I mean, I
ask this question because I myself am a bit confused. I've got a
19 year old daughter, a 13 year old daughter, a 36 year
old son. He's well on his way doing his own thing. But I
feel so helpless sometimes advising them
because the landscape, I just

(48:40):
don't know what the world's going to look like in 10 years. That's pretty crazy right now.
I mean, what are your thoughts around that? It's just weird to be a dad. Like,
go back 70 years ago, a dad could confidently tell
his son or daughter, pretty sure if you go this way, this is
Yeah, no, I mean, I have a 17, 14 and 10 year old, so I'm I
mean, I'm, yeah, I think about it all the time. And, you know, what

(49:04):
I tell them, it might not be, you know, people would probably expect me
to say, like, just do this and work your ass off and blah, blah, blah.
And that's all true because I actually do think in today's world,
the work ethic has gone so far down with young folks. There
is no work ethic. And if it is, it's shocking, you
know? And I tell my kids, like, if you just go in now

(49:25):
and bust your ass, you'll stand out. Because nobody
is. Like, nobody is. Not nobody, but you know what
I mean. It's the entitlement in younger
folks is... Why do you think that is? Because I think a lot of
parents have... you know, coddled kids. It's a different
And I think economically, from the 70s till now, things have gone well for

(49:48):
Well, I mean, our parents never knew where we were. I mean, my
parents didn't do shit for me. Like, when I got home, my parents
weren't home. I had to do everything. Get myself to school, get
myself to practice, get myself to do everything. You know, and I was an
only child. So like, and I think you, you either as an only child,
you're spoiled or you're independent. You know, like, and
I was super independent. But now, like, we do everything for our kids. We're

(50:11):
totally guilty of that. The stuff that we do for our kids, like,
would never happen for my wife and I. Same in my household. And
so, like, we also don't come from any money, you
know? And then, like, when you, you know, if you're fortunate enough to have, like, kind of
this more fortunate lifestyle, it changes the
kids too, and then that's a struggle. Because I'm, like, going, Hey,

(50:32):
like this isn't normal. None of this shit's normal. This isn't
like real life. This isn't what people are like, most people are
going through in this country. Like this isn't real. This is
fantasy land, especially up in Encinitas. You know,
it's like, it's a different type of place. So we struggle with
that. But I think on the flip side of all of it, I'm, I'm

(50:52):
always telling them, you don't have to figure it out right now. You
have to work in the meantime. And you're going to learn work
ethic and what it takes to do what you need to do
to kind of survive. I'm not going to just help you forever. Not
going to happen. But you don't have to figure it all out
at 18 either. And college, you're probably not going to figure it

(51:13):
out there. And if you don't figure it out after that, it's
OK. But you can't just sit around the couch
Yeah, like, come on, dude. No, there's none of that. Like, you're going to have to go
work. You might not want to have a remedial job, but dude,
there's nothing wrong with working at In-N-Out, man. Or, like,
bussing tables or, like, doing all the jobs that we did, you know? Like, nothing

(51:35):
wrong with that. And like, you gotta do it. But I think like,
You nailed it. And I am similar to you. Actually,
we're almost identical. Same thing. I don't like the figured out
part. I never have. No. You know, the homes
you go to where they're always asking, what are you going to be? What are you going to be? It's so
annoying. Oh, it's like, what are you doing? The kid's seven years

(51:59):
old. And then, you know, you get him to repeat it enough, he'll attach to
Well, and a lot of parents are like, they want their kids to go to college so they can say, my
kid goes to X college. Especially around here,
you know what I mean? It's a different... It's like jewelry or
something. Yeah, I could care less about that. Like, and if they said to me, dad,

(52:19):
I don't want to go to college. Okay? What's your plan? Because
when I didn't go to college, I was going to do this. You
had a reason. So like, if you don't want to go to figure it out, which I, I got it.
Well, you better figure it out right now. You better figure out what job
you're gonna get and then you can figure out whatever career you want when you're
And i think another part you said is so true to is and i got

(52:41):
i just i'm gonna be gentle i don't wanna sound like i'm dissing all the
kids out there but. There is a tough not to do man there
is an overwhelming amount of entitlement you
see it i go to these functions i have kids the kids are around
me. Simple things like picking up the backyard after the
swim in the pool and i watch how they behave and it's like. So you're

(53:01):
right, if you could just tell your kid, look, just work a
You're 10 steps ahead. You're 10 steps ahead. And I think every
parent, like every parent that's like, you know, got kids
that are age 10 and over goes,
yeah, the entitlement's way gnarlier than when we were kids. I
don't, I don't know any parent that would disagree with, I mean, you'd

(53:24):
have to be like an idiot. Right. I mean, everyone sees it.
And we hire a lot of young folks in our business and it's like, it's
Oh my God. It's just like, and you wonder, like, it's so expensive for
people to live now. How are you not working? Yeah.

(53:45):
Where do you get it? How are you feeding yourself? How are you alive? I always... I
I have no idea. Are they all living at home? I don't know. I don't know. I trip out
I mean, everyone goes to the store. Eggs are $10. Maybe not
at Trader Joe's, but you're like, you want like whatever healthy eggs.

(54:07):
How do i have a job i don't get it i just don't might just be
a lot of a lot of people are just financially supporting their
kids as they kind of. Dolly around to life i think that would be
your answer if you look down that rabbit hole in our area yeah i'm not
But you're going to work to support yourself while you figure it out. Yeah. That's

(54:27):
like my, and if you want to go to college, I got it. What do you want to go for?
And then also college is so expensive. They have to do
something about it. Like these kids being, you know,
$200,000 in debt, $300,000 in debt. It's like, you can
buy real estate for that. And like, you could go to community college

(54:48):
and save your folks or yourself a hundred and
fifty thousand dollars hundred thousand dollars whatever it's your
first and it's the same education for the most part i agree
with everything you i have a daughter who is at berkeley but
and i was just like you she could've told me, i would've been totally
supportive but it was it was really was this kids nature. I

(55:09):
never told this girl to do her homework, it was straight A's
from birth. Telling me the whole time, one day I'm
gonna get into business, I'm gonna go to the best college, I'm gonna go to business. I
Honestly, that's the perfect person to go to college. It's
the one that goes, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. Well, that's cool, you
don't have to know, but like, I don't know if I wanna spend 150 grand for

(55:34):
I 100% agree. You know you know since you
are in business you have you know these business employees i
have to ask your feelings around ai and.
I know you've seen the studies right what this is
going to do you know we just talked about getting out there working
hard meanwhile we're being told the next decade eighty percent

(55:56):
of all jobs are gonna be replaced possibly by
ai. So like on an echo, this is something I
wrestle with in my own head, like I'm trying to understand this ever-changing
future, and I can't wrap my head around where that
leaves us. If, let's fuck it, let's not say
80, let's say 50. Let's be conservative. 50% is

(56:18):
a conservative number. So half the jobs are gone in 10 years. What
do we do? What do these people, what's coming? What
do you think's coming? You give this any thought at all? Are you just like, fuck, I'm doing me.
You know, it's hard to not pay attention to it now because it's
so, it's hard not to pay attention to everything now with
like, you know, what's going on in the country and whatever side you're

(56:40):
on, whatever, whatever. I think like there's no way it's
so polarizing. Everything is so gnarly all the
time. Yeah. I think it's a real thing. I think it's
scary, you know, and it's not something for me.
I hate social media, you know, it's, which is funny to say, cause
I've built brands on it. Like I've had successful companies. I

(57:01):
told you the other day, St. Archer, a lot of the
reason why it was successful is because we utilized Instagram in
the beginning. And before there was any guardrails, you could
kind of do what you were going to do. And like, they didn't, they, you know, like you
could actually build a business on it. And we did 100%. And,
you know, but is social media doing any good? I mean, really? I

(57:22):
mean, I don't know how you could say yes. You know, it causes so
many problems. And I think the scariest thing for
me is people are getting more and more removed from
each other. And then, like, if, like,
AI takes over, it's like the death blow, you know? But
it's like, we're already so removed from just

(57:43):
this. Like, what's up? Give you a
hug. Let's have a beer. How are you? How's your family? Blah blah blah. Like,
our kids don't even communicate like this. This.
It's fucking bullshit. I don't like social media either. I'm in a world
And I mean, me personally. Like, I've gotta actually, I don't have

(58:05):
to, but it's good for me to go on my Instagram, respond to
You know i don't like it i don't like what is doing to
my kids the country a personal interpersonal relationships
i mean i have people if you ask me do you know so and so and i i've
caught myself doing this i'm like oh yeah i know him and then i think about it i'm like i actually don't
know him we've dm a dozen times yeah. But

(58:31):
But if you watch where it's going, like the kids all communicate through
social media. Yeah. Now they don't even text each other.
Little videos, Snapchat. Snapchat. Yeah. This,
and like, it's just like, so it's already,
they've already started like the, you're already removed
from like person to person like warmth. And

(58:54):
then, like I said, I think it just like give it 10 more years and it's just the
knockout punch. But I don't know how you could think any differently.
I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of positive spins from the corporations. Not
I'm with you as an optimist i try to think
of something the positive you know what's what this

(59:15):
one like hey a i obviously is is gonna be way
quicker and smarter than humans of course already probably is
ten years for sure humans have problems we have problems
providing fresh water creating fresh water for people that don't have it
during cancer running complex governments
like yeah i like this idea that maybe i'm just being a

(59:37):
little hopeful here but maybe maybe future with this is
fixing all these things that i could be beneficial but
I don't know the only thing that makes me nervous is just room removing like
a human warmth. I don't know, or
connection. I think we're all supposed to be connected, and
I think having a wedge further and further in between all that

(01:00:00):
just doesn't seem like the way it's supposed to be. I don't know,
It does, but sometimes I think it's over-connected. We grew
up as tribal people, right? Our minds, I believe there's even studies on
this, are built to maintain a sincere, authentic
relationship with around 80 to 100 people. But
when you bring in social media and just the existence of a phone, the ability to

(01:00:23):
text and stay in touch with people, suddenly we all find ourselves with,
you know, a few hundred or even a thousand people that I have actual
interactions with. And so it just waters down the
Yeah, man, I trip out. I'm like, I can't

(01:00:46):
Yeah, it's a big deal. It's like, and it's kind of, it's not flying under the radar
obviously, but like it's not like impacting us like
day to day yet. But it will. I
I was in San Francisco about a month ago and saw those self-driving

(01:01:10):
People, like, taking naps in the passenger seat, or I would drive by
and look at them, I'm like, they're totally sleeping. And driving.
And I just, like, went, wow, we are, like, Back to
the Future is my favorite movie of all time. So then I'm, like, thinking about
Back to the Future 2 going, all we need is those Nikes that
we push the button and the laces go, and, like, we get the auto dry suit

(01:01:34):
We're living in a bit of a sci-fi world. It's crazy. It
is you know and it does make me a little bit. Anxious i
want to say depressed but it does affect me i have negative thoughts
sometimes then i always try to say to myself well if
you chose to be born into a specific time
frame in earth history and you wanted an exciting one.

(01:01:57):
that was gonna be a wild ride. You picked the fucking time zone,
We nailed it. Yeah, because we were, me and you, I mean, I'm 53, you're 43, but
we, me especially, it was a dial-up phone. Yep.
All the way to everything. Now I'm 53 and I'm watching AI
I know. I'm like, that's a hell of a ride. I even just think the iPhone, like,
what a crazy deal, like, you saw, like, cell phones back

(01:02:19):
then. I still, I mean there's things that you just wish were
still there and it's like easy to like sound old and go back when I
was. But like, I used to have to call my wife and
like talk to her folks on the phone. Hi, is Janine Vova,
you know. Those days are like, they never have to talk to us,
right? Like I make them, I make it

(01:02:39):
happen. But you had to carry a conversation with an adult, you
know what I mean? Like you had to do it. And then you were like on
the phone all night. Yeah. Right? Whereas like now they
No. It'll be interesting to see what effects this has on
the youth of today. Yeah. I'm curious for sure. I'm

(01:03:01):
sure a lot of it's not going to be positive. But I don't know. Hopefully
it is. Hopefully there's always some positive. And
maybe this is just sometimes I think like our species is like
pre-teen. It's an ugly time period
for humans because maybe we make it through this, maybe we
end up in a hundred years in some unforeseeable future that's maybe

(01:03:23):
more benevolent, more futuristic, and somehow there's
more peace and serenity. But to get from here to there,
we got to go through this phase, which is pretty... Well,
presidential election and like our choices you're like what
is that you know that's a whole nother but

(01:03:44):
it's just like you know if you grew up with people that
were like presidents that were like great americans which
i did yeah like you go what and forget like
who you what whatever party you know like just
like is this the human we want representing
america does this represent the american people come

(01:04:05):
on Let's just take it down to that. Forget
all the other stuff. It's just pretty crazy. I
never thought any of this stuff would happen and how divided everybody
is and just the hate on both sides. You
can't even believe the news on both sides because there's
agendas and you're like, dude, I don't even know. It's hard to

(01:04:28):
even for it all, man. It's
And think how much more confusing it'll be in a couple more years. I
know. With deep fakes, and AI can make videos that look
just like you saying anything they want you to say. Yeah,
I know. I want to stay optimistic, but it's difficult

(01:04:49):
Yeah, you're like, holy shit. Yeah, it's nuts. I'm with
Yeah, and on that note, like, yeah, please, everyone listening, I
know you have strong views about what this country needs, which
party should lead it. I can't encourage you all
enough, and I have mine, but I would never hate

(01:05:10):
And if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Yeah.
Like, just don't... Well, I think you're back to social media, like... Yeah, everyone
thinks... In the old days, to say something unnice meant standing, and usually standing
right there and looking someone in the eyes and saying it. And you never did

(01:05:31):
Maybe, or at least it just takes a lot of balls to do it
in person. When you can tweet it or when you can text it,
It's crazy. I mean like the craft beer world in San Diego,
like when we sold St. Archer, we were like the devil. Really?
Oh man, it was ridiculous. And what's the narrative

(01:05:51):
behind that? You sold out, and this isn't crap beer, and fuck you,
and fuck this whole thing, and we knew you were blah blah blah, I'm
never drinking it again, I hate you, I hope your kids die, oh
And like any other industry, companies sell all the time, and it's
celebrated. Interesting. But for some reason in beer, it was, you

(01:06:15):
When like, so you thought it was, you think it's bad that like we
created a successful company and I changed my friends lives and
like people that invested in me and believed in me and like what I sacrificed for
my family and like you think my family should die because of
that? Damn. Yeah, like I'm glad Instagram exists for
you. Yeah. And like you can sit there and say stupid shit

(01:06:35):
like that and like there's no repercussion. I
used to go on Instagram and tell people, come down. I'm at the brewery. I'm here right
now. Come on down. As you can imagine,
Yeah. That's something I have to keep in mind. You know, since I started the show, I've been,
you know, having intimate conversations and ultimately I have, you
know, opinions come out. And for the first time in my career, I've

(01:06:57):
got people, you know, you're, this is full of shit. You're
pushing this agenda. All is like, I've never, all I've had my whole career
Yeah suddenly i'm entering this world where i'm crazy rise world
and i to some people represent a certain ideal and
they're against that ideal and i am. You know working on

(01:07:18):
how to how to deal and you know i learned a lot of joe rogan's a friend of
mine and he's always told me aaron hosting ghost buddy hosting
host. And if you happen to accidentally catch
one of those comments, just remember, who
What human being wrote that? I haven't
done social media. I've been pretty much off

(01:07:40):
it for years. And our company, Instagram, I
haven't done in years and years and years. It just
gets out of hand. And it's like, you just don't want to live your life
I know a lot of successful people and I don't know any of them that's ever
written anything nasty on Instagram. No. So that's what I
always think. It's like, who is writing this? These are not the winners in

(01:08:03):
life most of the time. There might be the occasional exception where
someone's bright and actually a winner and they just maybe
had to say something. But I'd say by and large, 99% of
those nasty comments are just losers that aren't doing anything
I saw this in a comedy bit once, but it's like

(01:08:24):
Yelp. You know, I've never gone on and my
wife, we love going out to dinner. at
a fucking restaurant. If it sucks, I look at
my wife and go, this place sucks, get the fuck out of here. Or we're
not coming back. Or the service is lame and like this
place sucks. But it's to each other. I don't

(01:08:45):
go, I would never even think to go on a
website and blast this. Cause even if you don't
like it, dude, that's somebody's life. That's like
their livelihood. And just because you don't like the food, you're
like trying to tear down Come on, man. Just don't
go back. Just don't tell your best friends to go there. But let

(01:09:05):
them do... You don't have to trash them. Come on,
man. And there's people that love it. Obviously, it exists. But
people just can't... If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't
So true you know and i'm with you i've never made a negative comment yup
my life i never made any comments my wife comments all the time positively
yeah she's a business owner and she likes to and she knows the business and

(01:09:28):
i think sometimes people forget in the small business community like a lot
of the time you're dealing with. Some people that have
everything on the line their kids financial future and
you know it's all all happening for them and you wanna
make a shitty comment on yelp and it slowly degrades their business that's
what you're doing and maybe they just had a bad day. No

(01:09:50):
business gets it right every day so don't go yeah don't eat
there but don't try to tear them down what
is wrong with you. Just don't like it that's fine.
I think the best part of what you said in today's environment is we
If you're spending time like blasting people

(01:10:10):
that are faceless to you, you need to look in the mirror man. It's
just, it's crazy. It's so toxic. And
that's what it's turned into. It's like a very toxic environment for the most
part, you know, there's still people like your wife, God bless her for being positive
Yeah. Yeah. And I have to like

(01:10:38):
Well that's cool man it's been a joy talking to you, hearing about
some insights into your own life and how you got to where you're at.
That addictive OCD which
is probably a gift from god that drove you
to create these brands which has brought so many people prosperity and
joy. me on a micro level just sit in my backyard having

(01:11:00):
one of your seltzer so all this love and goodness that
came out of it. For everybody because of your i
guess i appreciate that yeah i just called a
winner's attitude i'll take that man i'll take it. Awesome
boy. Thank you for coming out. Is there anything? I
mean, there's probably always gonna be something next for a guy like you but anything next

(01:11:35):
I know people are going to love the episode. For all you guys listening, the likes, the follows,
the subscriptions, I really appreciate it, especially the messaging.
I'm a small little outfit, and it takes a lot to put this thing
on. So getting a little love once in a while from you guys really keeps
the fire burning. So thank you for those of you that are doing that, and keep it