The Crazy Germans' Episode ft. Marcus Giuliano Stolz and Philipp Trier

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
the curve of new inventions and developments.
I mean, if you watch from the phones
in the car to the mobile phone, from the mobile phone to
the smaller mobile phones, you know, the ones without the antenna
on it, to smartphones, to tablets,
and you know, as you used the term earlier, the cascade, it's

(00:22):
like it's getting quicker and quicker, you know, it's like the curve of
new inventions is not exponential, but
Five years. Huge. Ten years. Fuck,
I don't even... Kind of like anyone knows what 10 years looks like.

(00:46):
I'm feeling something in my spirit.
Hello, friends and lovers of art. Welcome back
to Chats and Tats with me, your host, Aaron DeLaVedova. I got to give

(01:08):
a shout out to my sponsor, everybody. I know you don't want to hear a commercial right now,
but first of all, sullenclothing.com. If
you're into my art or tattoo art
in general, and you like to wear cool t-shirts and hats and
hoodies, check them out. You know, yeah, it's a shout out
to my sponsor, but Honestly they're a huge part

(01:29):
of why i'm still here so you know ryan and jeremy have been friends
of mine for years they love this industry and they're
great human beings so thank you so much for all your support.
With that being said i'm super excited today because
we get to get a little taste of tattooing from
other parts of the world today specifically germany i'm

(01:50):
really interested in people that come from abroad just because. I
don't know i feel like you really can't figure out what the fuck
is going on in the world unless you talk to people that are from those areas i
don't trust our new cycle i don't trust much anymore. I
like to hear from the horses mouth so it'll be interesting to
hear what it's like in germany as an artist as a

(02:11):
tattoo artist. And on top of that both these gentlemen are
absolutely amazing tattoo artists in their
own right really fucking talented their styles are
well. One of them i would probably categorize as
a hyper realism with an avant-garde twist
kind of that black work style but there's also. Illustration

(02:35):
and portrait worked into it beautiful work.
And also you know the other gentleman's with me today it's black and
grey but it's not just realism we does
realism but he also does portraits he also does illustrative
type work it does decorative work all that fusing
together to make beautiful large format whole body.

(02:57):
Compositions that are just breathtaking so with that
being said please welcome my guest today marcus
We're all tattooers, and I think today I'd like to talk about tattooing a
bit, other things too. But let's just start off with some basics. Both
of you guys have been tattooing for 16 years. Marcus, you worked with

(03:19):
Philip at Locomotive Tattoos for
how many years? Three years, maybe. You've since moved
on with your fiancé to a solo studio, which
is, I get it, you know, especially the type of work you do. Very
large format, that privacy aspect. And Philip, you still
work and run your own studio, Lokomotiv.

(03:41):
Yes. Okay. Cool name, by the way, Lokomotiv. Yeah.
Lokomotiv is like, it means the front of a train. In
German. The big steaming thing, you know, it's Lokomotiva. but
I translated it not like
the industrial thing. I tried to put

(04:02):
some art things in it. That's why I wrote it with 2C
and it's just separated. It's kind of a great
motives thing. The motives. Yeah, motives.
But still the front of a train, which indicates like a big force
But the good thing about it is, that's why I like the name as well, is

(04:24):
nobody is scared about locomotives. It's just like
a nice thing for little boys. They always want to be driving
a locomotive and stuff like that. So you just have a memory
of childhood, good feelings about it. It's just strong, and
it's nice, and it's beautiful, and it's big, and it's steaming, and

(04:46):
That's a cool name. I like it, too. I like the way you broke it down. That's
a very cool name. So let's start a little bit from the
beginning, like each of you, we can start with either of you guys, but
how did you get into this? I mean, let's
start with you, Marcus. So how old are you? I'm 37. 37 years
old. You've been tattooing 16 years. How did you become

(05:09):
Actually, it's a very, very, I like
the story. I got to tell it. So thanks for the question.
Well, it started, I was studying art, like
free painting and do nothing with that, to
be honest. Yeah. So I continued
to study in Ludwigsburg, it's a small Baroque

(05:32):
town, art and theology as
a teacher. like religion, basically I was
to become a religion and art teacher. And
in the street I lived, there was a tattoo shop. And I was super
impressed because tattooing was at that time, we're
talking about, let's say, 20 years ago. It was already like modernizing

(05:55):
in a way, as far as I'm informed, because I wasn't...
Yeah. And I was always super
impressed because these guys that were going to the shops, had
the balls to enter it, first of all, because we're close,
there was no introspective, you didn't know what's going

(06:18):
on in there, there was no... no videos, no
live streams or whatever. And I
always, I liked this kind of...
This mystery. Yeah, this mystery, this other
universe, this secret society, in kind of a
way you can call it, maybe you can call it like that, or at least how I

(06:39):
interpret it. With the years, I was doing my studies there,
and I was always passing, and I had some tribals
over my full back, I let them made I made them secretly when
I was 17. It was super cool, like in a
biker shop, it was great. Great times on
a bar, you know, there was like a bar seat and

(07:00):
there was no plastic wraps or something. I didn't even see the stencil,
I remember that. He was just putting something and I smelled the dettol, you
know, is it the right term in English? Yeah, I still use dettol. Yeah, and
then I just heard the coil like going on and it was like and
the pain and that's it, it started like down on the back. Anyways,

(07:20):
and I got this a little bit bigger then. And
at that shop, and then he said, hey man, but you hang here
around quite often, because I was like coming and like,
oh, hello, and you know, and trying to get somehow
into that, you know? And then, I'm sorry, I'm making this

(07:40):
Yeah, and then with the time he said, Hey, if
you want to help me out with some cleaning and stuff, come over
clean. And so it went step by step, like from cleaning to
cleaning the tubes. I mean, you remember these horrible times with these
metal pipe cleaners, and then you're like, you
have like three hairs on it. And you just have to

(08:03):
clean the tips. And going from there, he
showed me how to build up the station. So Sascha, thank you. I
still appreciate it. Gerd and Achim also, the guys
coming afterwards. It went further and further, like he
gave me, then I had to learn how to make the needles,
you know, like with thread and stuff. Yeah. I

(08:26):
think you spoke with Derek Noble about it, like
how horrible this was, getting the things
from the needle back out of, to get rid of the
needle in front and then to like make them straight
again and stuff like that. So I could really relate to what he said there, what

(08:52):
I had never an idea. And I was, you know, I was like my grandfather, German
side, my Italian grandfather was, had apple
trees on my, it was a
modern thing of... Welder. A welder. Yeah. Yeah. And he worked by
hand. So, but that was the only thing I
was, I was connected to handcraft, you know, my mom was

(09:14):
painting and learning different languages and stuff like that. So
I was never like in this really working thing. And then I was there like making
the needles. Then I got a machine,
I remember that was the Green Monster by Icos. And you
got this machine, it was a coil machine, like, I think it was a short
coil, but I'm not sure about it. And you got this like completely

(09:36):
demonted, you know, and then it was... You mean
demented? No, it was... Put it all in
Yeah, deconstructed. Yeah, and then Sasha,
my mentor back in the day said, hey, if you just make it run, it
doesn't have to run smoothly, it doesn't have to run good, you just have to close the electricity

(09:58):
in the thing, you can go on. It was horrible.
It was the worst week because there was no YouTube. There was
MySpace. You know, that was the only social media platform. Yeah.
And there was no tutorials. And it was
Yeah. After I did the daily business, like in the mornings, I

(10:21):
went to university. And then in the afternoons till evening, I
went there. And then, yeah, 7, 8 o'clock. It
was cool. I hated back then because other apprentices were
able to tattoo after half a year. It was not my
thing. For me, it was cleaning and stuff. But now I

(10:46):
What people don't think, looking at my work, they think, okay, it's
like some artsy-fartsy modernism. I
only do my style of thing. It's not like that. I'm
a big fan of being humble and being grounded and being
We're lucky. You're lucky. We're lucky to have touched that

(11:08):
era of tattooing. You know, the young folks that are coming in now, maybe
some, but most will never, never know that. And that's fine too,
but it's quite special when you get older and you were able to be
a part of the old ways all the way to the modern ways of
tattooing. That's really cool. I wouldn't have expected that either. You
know, you're right. When I look at your portfolio, I don't assume,

(11:29):
but in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, probably a guy, his first machine was
probably a rotary pen style machine, maybe or something.
But now you, you made needles, you built your first machine. That's
cool. That's very cool. And what about you, Philip? How did it all
Well, it was just a moment in my life when
first, you know, after graduating school, I was like a cook, a

(11:50):
chef. So I learned that and I always was
from small childhood memories on. I was
always creative and I had this inner motivation to
draw every day. just like things. I watch things
in life and nature and stuff like that. And then I sit at home, and
I just have this, this inner will to describe

(12:12):
it, just draw it and just reproduce it in
on a picture. So But I never thought that it would be my
profession. I dreamed of it. But you know, in Germany, it's
like, when you say I want to be an artist, like a classic artist,
everybody's shaking their head and that you got to do something serious, you know, you
got to work on cars, or you got to work on, like, like, you

(12:33):
know, you got to get an engineer or stuff
like that. So art is for, you know, dreamers.
So, but I kept it in my, in my life every day.
And then I was an art printer. You know what
that is? Like a screen printing. And I
did, I did that for quite a long time. And

(12:54):
then I was introduced into graphic design and stuff. And by the
side, I was always like interested doing my own stuff, like
oil paintings, aquarelle. I have taught like
graphic. uh, illustrations and stuff. And
it started beginning that all my friends, when they grow up, they recognized,
Oh man, like Phil is a good, like I can recognize

(13:15):
he's a good painter or like a good drawer. And if
they run out of ideas for like presents for their family, they
asked me, Hey, my mother is her birthday next week. And
I don't know what to, what to buy her as a present. Can
you draw a picture of our dog so I can frame it and I can
have it, uh, hand it to my mom. So she would be very lucky. So

(13:35):
I started like little artworks for, yeah,
for money, for small money, just by the side. And
I did my screen printing job and very nice projects there. And
once in a while we got older and more and more of my friends asked
me, Hey, my tattooer, I want to get a tattoo, but my tattoo is asking me
for pictures. He doesn't want to draw for me. It was the time like

(13:58):
20 years ago, like 20. nearly 20 years ago like 18 years ago
and you're a good drawer and i don't find pictures because i
can't only like find in the internet like common tattoo
pictures and stuff like that i don't really like it but i would like to have some
egyptian thing on my back and like the pharaoh mask and
stuff like that and i said it's no problem i can just draw you this But

(14:19):
I'm not into the technique of tattooing. So I just
draw it and if it's good for the tattoo, he can use it, he can change it
or whatever, you know, but I'm trying to figure out, put all your ideas together and
maybe you can use it. But if the tattooer needs like a
picture and he doesn't want to draw itself because he's just like a
service man for you and you

(14:40):
have to search the topics for your tattoo, I
can do it. So I started that and I did like 20, 25 like
concepts for my guys over there, for my friends and stuff,
for arms and backs and legs and stuff. I didn't really know what I'm doing.
I didn't know if it's tattooable, you know, but I just did my
best to serve them, you know, as with a drawing. And

(15:01):
they always came back to me and said, my tattooer who saw the
picture, he asked if I'm a tattooer. So you
should show up in the shop, he said, because you're quite good
at drawing. And I was like, no, I love my job. And I'm
like, I'm into it. And I can do my art by side and stuff like that. But
once in a while, I thought about the questions from the

(15:21):
tattooist to come over to the shop, because they want to learn to know me, who's
drawing that good and drawing all the concepts for his friends, but
never showing up because I had no tattoos at all, you know. My
interest is always in art form, like I said, like oil paintings and stuff,
and I was always self-taught and stuff like that. And once in
a while I thought about, man, what would it feel like just to do a
tattoo? Not to receive a tattoo, but I was just interested in

(15:44):
producing something which is in art
form. I went to a tattoo shop and I said, I don't want a tattoo, but if
it's okay, would you sell me some old stuff? And
the first one, he was quite nice, so he said, yeah, if
you want to do an apprenticeship, I can sell you these things, but
I have no place here. So I can sell you, you can

(16:05):
just try to learn it. Well, he never thought I would do
it, but you can, he raised the price for it. It was so much
too high for it, but I paid it because I just wanted to buy like
brushes and oil color and stuff like that. I just collected it
and it's okay. So I never saw a YouTube video, never. I
just watched all the things I got and I'm trying to figure out how to put it together.

(16:26):
And first of all, I put the grip upside down and I didn't
know how the needle works and stuff like that. I didn't know that there has to be
a rubber band and stuff. And I'm a really, like
in my mind, I'm a really clear guy and I don't want to get into trouble.
So the first moments my friends recognized I
have a tattoo machine at home, they all screamed like, Oh man, you're good at drawing.

(16:46):
I want to get a tattoo by you because And I said, I don't
really know how it works. I should try it on myself. All right. So
then when I'm down in it, you can come back and then I will try it
on you. Okay. So the first times I was so excited
and I was really nervous. So I drank like five to six beers and
I put it all together and I said, just let's just go for it, you know. and

(17:08):
I put like tattoos on my upper leg because I
mean now thinking back of it it's quite of a challenge because
on your upper leg you have to think mirror wise and
upside down which is a challenge for itself but
I tried it just for the first time and these are my first tattoos like the
two geckos here yeah I did it like nearly

(17:29):
20 no just like 18 not bad yeah not bad Yeah,
and then as you can see, I always have marks like where I tried out
how thick a needle is and stuff like that. I just, I just tried,
I just wanted to learn it, you know, I'm self-taught. As it comes to the point where
I know how to put everything together, and I had some material on
the side, that's what the moment when I invited first the friends, but no

(17:50):
new tattoos, I taught them, hey, I'm learning it, so I can fix up
your tribal or I can fix up your old tattoo, so that
I don't, you know, demolish something or make
some really artwork on not really artwork, some
scratch work on them, which I'm not proud of. So I
was step by step, right? Yeah, getting into it, like in

(18:10):
painting, if you want to do a big oil painting, you just first you
make light, thin lines with graphite, and
then you get concrete and more concrete and more with volume
and shadings and stuff. But it took me about like
a year and then I was fit for shadings and for long lines and
stuff like that. I did a lot of Maori and like Polynesian stuff

(18:32):
at first, which was like what people asked
for because it was quite modern at that time. So
I had the pressure right away to learn long lines. long,
Yeah, I needed it. The armband that goes all the way around and has
I did it at home on my coffee table a thousand

(18:55):
times and then I got quick better at tattooing and
then the people came up to me and it was more and more and more and
that's what the point I decided just let my other stuff go. I'm into
it full-time a hundred percent. I'm dedicated and I
really liked it and I love it until now. Every minute
So you completely self-taught. So you never, at

(19:18):
some point you didn't go to a shop and start working with other artists
I'm really sorry for all the traditional ways. I don't want to disrespect
this way and what I did in the history. I know it's
not cool because it's not the perfect idea of
getting a tattooer, but I was so self-confident about my skills

(19:38):
in drawing that I just like ran into it, you know?
It was not like my, I forced it to be a tattooer. It just was running
good. And then when I, with the respect of my work, which I
did in the first times, I said, okay, now
That's cool no judgment here i mean you have

(19:59):
the desire the work the dedication to
get where you're at today you know but i was very carefully and
you were very responsible throughout that process. Yeah i
mean there's a lot of tattooers out there that are
around my age or your age of in tattooing that
I'm really upset that there's so much available to teach people

(20:20):
how to tattoo. But I always feel like, look, it
doesn't, you know, first of all, the cat's out of the bag. You can't put it back inside.
But no matter what is available to all these people, the
ones that will succeed in tattooing are the ones that have the talent, the

(20:41):
work ethic. You're not going to get to a thriving career
So I look at it like, fucking have at it everybody. And
the ones that rise to the top, rise to the top. And the
ones that don't, I mean, the thing is too, especially today, I mean, Thirty
three years ago when i was tattooing you can actually be a bad

(21:02):
tattooer and make a living because there was so less yes
and that. Was a problem you know but good luck
now good luck you know paying your house payment or
your rent as a shitty tattoo today there's no way. People
have options and they can see him on their instagram and they can go to
somebody else and they will. So you're not going to make it unless you

(21:24):
have all those things in place. The work ethic, the commitment, the dedication,
This is what we say in Germany. Doesn't matter what job you do, as
long as you're committed and you can work your ass off,
Just like that. I agree with that. So that's interesting. So
two different paths starting at the same time. Did you guys know each other

(21:45):
back then? No. So you've known Phil since
when you started working there a few years ago? Yeah, like six years now.
Maybe a little bit more. I would say more. Like eight years.
Maybe something like that. That was nice. That was
cool. We loved each other. That was really like, at first sight, you remember,

(22:06):
it was super cool. I remember that we
went to company to check some inks,
it was always tattoo related, the friendship we have. And
yeah, and then, right, we went to my place,
remember? And then we drank on the balcony. That was cool. No,

(22:27):
and then we realized, also talking about work
ethics, because that in my, just
in my experience, that was actually the
rise, like eight years, seven, eight years ago, when
you had this, I know everyone is bitching about the Rockstar Tattoos
with every ride, because it's It's horrible. And

(22:49):
I realized very fast that he was very well
known in the region. And I was really crossing my
fingers like, okay, I hope he's not one of these, these... Who
are you? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I
met him, I was like, okay, fuck, this guy's fucking great. Amazing
person, you know, and so... But that was actually pretty, that

(23:12):
was pretty cool. And since then. A really good friendship. A
That's very good. And that's one of the best things about this craft is
the friends we meet, you know, the colleagues we end up meeting, those,
those friendships, the clients we meet and
the travel, it's, it's, That's the gift

(23:34):
that's a gift not the portfolio that you have at the end of your career
show people how great you were whatever it's always gonna be these
friendships made along the way. It's a special craft
that you know to share. Hard to put into
words, but I think about it a lot at
this phase of my career. That's the thing I care about

(23:57):
So many things. So many moments and so many impressions. It's
Also, talking about work ethics. I
grew up, especially in my apprenticeship, with the classic
this Bible from Guy Aitchinson, reinventing

(24:17):
the tattoo was amazing. And
like the quotes, like Jack Rudy said, if
you want to be a tattooer, make sure not to be an asshole. Nobody wants
a tattoo by an asshole. And then I really
grew up with that. in tattooing, let's
say, and it's really making a huge

(24:38):
impression on me because it's not about you, even
though you have your own style and you do the things your way and stuff
like that, or you're very extinguishable from other tattooers
or colleagues. In the end of the day, it's a
very nice dialogue or symbiosis between two
individuals that meet and one individual

(25:02):
has like something made especially for
him or her, you know? Like by the tattooer. I'm not
talking about this is you can only tattoo one piece
once because I have big respect for flash work,
for example. And you know how flash work works. I mean, I
don't have to tell anyone here. And it's like you have,

(25:23):
I don't know, Hanya mask, or
what's the, what's the, what's the other, like a real classic,
like the sacred heart or whatever. Panther. Yeah,
the anchor and stuff. It's been tattooed for many, many times, but
this is not what I, what I mean. It's like there's someone sitting there
just for you, doing something just for you, carry around. And

(25:46):
this, I know this is a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a term everybody
says many times, but you really have to like like embrace this
thought and really also understand it not only assimilate
like really accommodate to it like that you understand hey
this is a real thing that's happening and not just like something you
say i i hear this all the time when when for example people talk about

(26:07):
on the conventions you know, I'm never happy
with my work, I'm never so happy with my work. Sometimes I
think, I believe that it's real, but I think sometimes it's also like kind of fishing for
a compliment. And what people also must understand is
that from this not being happy with the outcome of
your work, of always thinking I could do better than that, and

(26:28):
tomorrow I have to get better, spoke with Harry Barber
about it, yeah, that the following day you always
have to like get over it, but this can also cause a big suffering. Yeah,
like coming home and thinking, I think
it was only 99%, not that messing up a tattoo, it's
not about that. Everybody sees if something's messed

(26:50):
up or not, I guess. But you know, like, this is also a
big pressure you can put on yourself. So it's so what I want
to say or explain is like so many factors, and you have to like,
really figure out where you stand as a human in life.
for tattooing that is getting very, very big,
very, I don't like the term too much, but

(27:12):
I don't have a better word for it, but very holistic, you know, it's like starting
from how you wake up in the morning, from how your picture
of humanity is, how you see people, are
you misanthropic, are you philanthropic, you know, like this is
all factors that go into your
work in a way, you know, because you work with humans on

(27:36):
It is. It's a spiritual journey. Yeah, really. I mean, nothing's
taught me more about myself and who I am
or what I think I am or what I need to work on or where I need to grow or
what failures I need to admit to and
to acknowledge and release. Nothing's done more of
that. Well, I'll say there's three things. Tattooing is

(27:57):
number one. It's done that for me more than anything. Well,
that and my children. Having kids will teach you a lot about
yourself. And then, of course, owning shops and being, managing
that. Because it's another layer to it. Like, understanding
people, how you are received by them. You
know, it is. It's some, I don't fully understand it either, but it's a

(28:20):
very spiritual journey. And you know, it is a, I always say at
the end of the day, there's only one thing I can do and I can only try my best that
day. And yes, if I ever finished a
tattoo that I said that was perfect, no,
I never have and I know I never will. But I do
know I did my best that day. Now if I went home that same day and

(28:41):
I didn't sleep and I went out partying the night before or
I had an attitude of not giving a fuck, that I couldn't
live with. If that tattoo didn't go great, I
would be not okay with myself. But if I slept
good, got up, ate a good breakfast, showed up as prepared
as I could, did my best, and it still wasn't enough in

(29:02):
my eyes, what else do I have? And then you have
to work on forgiveness and acceptance of yourself. You're
right, people can, I've met artists that cared too much.
They beat themselves up so much that it stifles their
growth. So it's like you have to care and let
it go simultaneously. It's a Zen thing,

(29:24):
a very Zen thing. You have to care so much, and
then when it's over, I don't care. It is
what it is. I did what I could, and tomorrow's a new day, and
What I have to say, I have respect for every, really
deeply respect every tattooer who is more than 10 years
in the business, because I know the feeling that what you're

(29:47):
seeing from the outside and what you're actually doing in
the moment is so black and white. Everybody
who hears you're a tattooer, they not like
suggest, but they think your day is like
only creative. It's only about you as
a tattooer and you can do whatever you want. You receive a

(30:09):
big amount of money and then you can just go home, go party.
You don't have to wake up that early and stuff. So I have a big respect for
everybody who's like in the business for over 10 years. Because
I know there is so much grounded and
functional and like structural things you need
to be that long in the business. You have to be

(30:31):
a very adapted person to other persons. You
have to switch your mood because the other one is suffering. This
is sucking so much energy out of you and you buy this
side. You have to be creative and exact and
functional. And you have to be like, it's so exhausting sometimes
because you want that your customer goes over the hours. And

(30:54):
even if you're not that sympathetical, you have to be the part who's
feeding him with energy so that he can stay on, on,
on his chair and stuff like that. And that's
why I have so much respect for tattoos like you, like Marcus,
like everybody else who's doing the profession for so many years. And
you don't get the very respectful attributes

(31:16):
from outside. Everybody thinks as a tattooer you can have a rockstar life
and you're loved by everybody and stuff like that. But you have
to talk so much and you have to make so much compromises for
yourself. I'm a really long tattooer
and I'm lucky I've established my own style and stuff
like that. My clients are very loyal and

(31:37):
they like what I do but the way to get there It
was so hard because the guys who coming around
in the first time, they are not that open minded. They don't know how
about illustration works and how it fits together very
good. You have to make them offers. Like sometimes I
did like three concepts in the like

(31:58):
praying that he's going to do the like the
individual or like the exceptional one, you know, like which one
I tried to put the best in this topic, you
know, but I did the first one, which was very simple and
hold to the dialogue he gave me. And then I did the individual one.
And then I did like a more like a concept for the

(32:20):
future, you know, what I think, which is developing very good and
good on the body. And this is so much pressure. If
anybody wants to get a tattoo, just be ready for many stressful
days. It's not a rockstar life. You have to be sober, you
have to be concentrated, you have to be on point, disciplined. And
it's not like it's given to you by the side or you just walk

(32:41):
across the road and then you're a tattooer. It's just, at least
when you're a tattooer, you still have so many stressful days.
You have to plan before, you have to be 100% concentrated
every day, and then when you're finished, there are the questions about
your life, how you got to tattooing, and what's your
story, and when can I come around, is there an appointment free,

(33:03):
and stuff like that. So you're working all the time. Yeah, you have to decide and
you have to be ready to get through this and then you will be in
a tattooer and then you will be tattooed and then you live a
tattoo life. But you only have to be ready for this. You
Absolutely. I mean, I've used to pour concrete,
frame houses, dig ditches for a living. I

(33:25):
was in the military. I was a mechanic. I was a rescue
swimmer. No job I've ever had has taxed
me more. than tattooing. Absolutely, 100%. And
Oh yeah, yeah. No, I don't even bring it up. I just keep it to myself now. You

(33:46):
know, you sit down with somebody else who, you know, they just got back from whatever,
running their insurance company and telling about their horrible day. And then I'm like,
yeah, I had a rough week too. And you can just feel the room be like, what?
You shut the fuck up. You didn't have a right. You don't know what work is, but
you're right with the message you're sending out to everybody out there. Um, you
know, and this was probably an important message 10 years ago, but I, I

(34:09):
now, There's no way around it. I mean, maybe people
are misconceived and they think they're going to get into this rock star lifestyle and this easy
job. But I think pretty quickly you'll figure
out that you're not going to make a living unless you put this level of
commitment into it. Which is great. There's a good firewall now.
You're not going to be able to be a tattoo artist and make

(34:30):
a living unless you have all that going on. And like I said, earlier back
in the olden days, people who came to work, hung
over, did a few tattoos and went out partying every night, they actually
did okay. For a lot of years. And it was kind of unfortunate because
it wasn't... There's a lot of jobs where you can not care
a whole lot about your job. It's just a job. Yeah. But this isn't

(34:51):
one of them. And it always broke my heart to see those people thriving in
the industry. So bad, not the bad news, but
nowadays that gravy train, that easy road
that just make a living half-ass, gone. Yeah. But
I love it because now we've all got to be real. You got to be really
a real tattooer with a true heart and commitment to it. So

(35:14):
that's beautiful. And the fact you guys are here is proof that you both
And the last thing is what I have to say about like getting like
from the outside getting quick successfully and tattooing is like Instagram
can't save your ass. You know, you can upload some nice photos
and if they're not from you and you're trying to like phishing clients with

(35:35):
that, there will be some clients who are not really like
into what you're really doing. They believe
you in the fake photos and stuff like that. And you can be like popular
for a short amount of time. But after that, it's
the proof in real life. And then you will be very stressful. Then
it will be so hard to be responsible for

(35:57):
what you did in the past, and it will chase you a lifelong.
Yeah, for a little while. You're not going to fake it for 20 years. Yeah, no, no. Good luck.
If you care. I mean, some of these folks I've met, they're like sociopaths. I
don't think they even lost any sleep. I would lose sleep, but whatever.

(36:18):
Well let me ask you a little bit before we get into some bigger, bigger, more
philosophical kind of questions I have. What's your just, I
like to hear your process, like, what
is your process for, you meet a new client, Marcus, and I'm
assuming a consultation occurs, and then bookings occur,
and then what's your work day look like, how many hours do you like to work, like

(36:43):
For me, I usually quite earlier, way
more earlier than my customer at the shop. I'm talking about two,
three hours. Usually I started between nine and 1030 every
day. And, um, but preparing the
design, I actually, I have many returning customers,
which is very, very good. So, because if you have like this common base

(37:05):
and you know, each other is like, you know, you're, you're, you're calmer,
Exactly. And so, you know, how to
how to develop the design, you know what this person likes, especially
I have this many times when I say, I like this part of the of
the sleeve, for example, this I like especially. And then I know, okay, this

(37:27):
is something I can try to repeat or like, Build
up a little bit, expand a little bit, exactly. It depends really,
this is like how long I work. Sometimes can be really,
a day can be only three, four hours, but
I found myself also leaving the shop
at 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock in the evening, at night. It's really,

(37:50):
How many hours do you tattoo for typically? I
Needle to skin, like really the, let's say, netto time of
tattooing, four to seven
hours. Seven. Yeah, but mostly, mostly it's orientated
more around four hours. Yeah. I would

(38:12):
consider myself quick. Yeah,
but you know how it is talking about yourself and
what you can and what you cannot do. I don't know. Like, self-perception
and the perception of others is, of course, not always the same, yeah.
Right. Well, I've got Filippo there saying you're a very fast tattooer.
That's a compliment. I like to believe I'm fast too, but

(38:35):
I think the style of work I do is slow by its nature. A
lot of colors, blending, large form, it just, it can
It can. I did the color, just a
second, I did a color piece, like I can show you later. I don't
know, like four months ago. like big

(38:56):
like this. And I thought, and he asked, he's also a
very old customer, and he said, how much
do you roughly think we need? I did this chest, like from here
to here, he had like a big swallow, I also have it in the portfolio.
I did this in like three, four hours. And so he of
course thought, yeah, for this little fox with a little bit of orange and

(39:17):
red and stuff, maybe we'll need two and a half hours.
So, but I, I ended up sitting there seven hours. So that
was exactly. I'm glad you said that. This
color work is so difficult. I have so much respect for
It's a lot more time consuming. It really is.

(39:39):
Um, my, my, my, you know, I've done a few body suits and there are, you
know, collarbone to ankle bones, all color, full
illustration. And, um, Yeah. Kudos to those people
that sat through that. I don't know the exact hours, but I know it was a tremendous
amount of work versus just maybe a black and gray or black work,
but. What about you, Phil? Do you like to work for the same amount of

(40:03):
Six hours? Yeah, less like six hours is the common time
I'm tattooing and preparing for about like two and a half
hours. And mostly I do two clients
a day. So a small one and like a day session. So
all in all, I'm in the shop for about 10 hours. And I draw
No iPad. I figured you guys would say that. My day is similar.

(40:26):
Same for me. But you do occasionally meet an artist who has some
really strange way of doing it. I heard a rumor once that
Horiyoshi, if you get a big project from him, you're expected to
be near his shop and you come in every day for an
hour. All right. I don't know. I had two or three people tell
me this, guys. I'm just saying out loud. It's probably bullshit, but

(40:47):
maybe it's too hard. But these small little everyday little. Yeah. And
I'll do like four or five people a day or something. I thought that's not very. But
Yeah, I mean, breakdown set up six times a day. Who wants
to do that? It's all right. No, I find five hours is the
I mean, sometimes four, sometimes six. But the

(41:10):
That five hour mark, almost always for me and the
client, everyone suddenly starts shutting down. And then
I prefer multi-set. Now my clients, now the new thing for most of
them is two, three days in a row, five hours each day. That's a
So this goes out to the client. Don't don't expect too many hours

(41:31):
because it's just not good in the end for you. It's just too much. It
Yeah. And you don't want me tired. You
Yeah. It's so exhausting. Brain is done. You don't ask
your doctor for a surgery and you come in and say, Oh,
you only like operating on me like four hours. Why
don't you do eight hours? Come on, I want to get it done. You don't do it

(41:54):
to a doctor, do you? But he has to be the respect to work
concentrated. So they're changing, you know, maybe for the surgery is
taking eight hours, they changing the doctors. After four hours, they
say, okay, you're exhausted. Now the other one has to go because it's
too dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. And the same thing for tattooer, is
it? I didn't know they do that. Yeah, they do that. If they have like complicated heart

(42:19):
One surgeon operating on a brain can't hold that
Yeah, you have to change. It's very, very dangerous though. Everybody
has to be on time and exact work. So that's why they're changing after
I'll be experimenting with that in a very personal way
on October 4th. We, I, and three
other tattooers here at Guru are gonna be doing an anesthesia

(42:42):
tattoo. Wow. Four of us working on one
man. He's trying to get his whole entire front with ribs.
I already told him, like, I don't, can't promise we're gonna finish, but
we do have four tattooers working simultaneously. And yeah,
there'll be probably times where the two on the right side We have
to roll him on his side to work on the ribs on the left side. Then

(43:03):
those two guys can take a break, have a coffee, roll him the other way.
Now we work for a couple hours. Then put him flat. Now we all work, you know? I
don't know. We're just gonna hit it as hard as we can, try
to get as much as we can done. It's interesting, yeah.
I mean, I know my era of tattooing and
my peers that are my age, I know a lot of them. Think

(43:24):
this is stupid and I'm I shouldn't be
doing this But I I've always had
the opinion that I'm here to be of service, right? I'm
not here to decide what your journey is like. That's why I've
always Whatever you you want to work for this
amount of time. I'll do that. You want to you want to use a little numbing cream? I'll try
it as long as it doesn't mess up the skin. That's your decision the clients.

(43:47):
I this particular guy, he's already gotten a full back piece
from me. He's got two sleeves. He's, he can be tattooed. He's been to, but
he's a busy man. And he's like, I don't want to make
Sorry if I interrupt. So you, you know, the guy in advance, because I
think this is also, um, in this, I actually,
I spoke yesterday with Kenny about it. This is the first time I heard about it.

(44:10):
Kenny B? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. He's on the project. Yeah,
he told me that he's very excited also. Very cool. Such a nice
guy. I really like him. But apart from that,
I'm really interested how this process goes.
And I think it's a very, very important detail that you know that
person in advance. I think that's not

(44:31):
important. I mean, I don't have like a... direct opinion
to that, but because I just didn't think about it. But
what I think is important in this thing that it's like, you
know, that person that you know, okay, he can, as
you said, he can stand, he made his back, he's busy. I

(44:52):
I won't say the number out loud.
Yeah, you're spending a tremendous amount of money for
And I have to say, all the guys who are saying this is stupid and this is
crazy, they're just saying it from the outside. They're not in your position. You're
the one to decide and you're the one who's, you know, like

(45:12):
getting the idea and they can say whatever they want to.
They're not in the situation to decide. Yeah, they don't know what they would
do if they would get an offer like that. So you're
quick to judge, but you're not in the situation. So I
think if you decided it is, it is your right to

(45:33):
I agree. I mean, I'm excited about the critics. We're going to
film the whole thing. We're going to, I'm not going to, yeah. I'm like, come on,
let's have, let's hear all your opinions. I can't wait. You know,
I'll probably have the guy on the podcast to talk about
the whole experience as well. And I might not do it again. I mean, I'm one
of those people, like, I'll try most anything once, you know,

(45:54):
maybe I've done it. I'm like, that didn't work for me for this reason
or for this reason or that. Or maybe we'll do 10 more.
Exactly. Exactly. So that's kind of an interesting side note.
But let's move on a little bit to... All right. So tattooing, obviously,

(46:17):
has changed in a lot of different ways. But
one of the biggest things that's changed for us is the social
media aspect of tattooing. I miss those
days where it was so pure, like you just did
a tattoo, the person was happy, they showed their friends. That
was the only clients I got. Every client, how did you find out about me? Oh, I

(46:38):
met so-and-so, and he told me you're great, and I saw his tattoo. I
want you to tattoo me. That was it. Or maybe they walk in, you hand a portfolio, they
look at it, like this work, they get a tattoo. That's kind
of gone. I mean, not gone. You're still gonna have people telling friends.
In Germany, it's very, with our clients, this is very common.
Well, referrals, but how many people come into your shop to look

(46:58):
at portfolios? Nobody. That's gone, right? Everyone's getting,
uh, figuring out who tattoos and where, mainly from
Instagram, you know? And so, and that's fine. I mean, it
is what it is. Social media is such a, you know, you got to draw, you
got to create, you got to have, um, consultations. You, you got to do
all the things it takes to make a great, great tattoo. And then you also have to

(47:19):
be a creator of content and managing your,
your social exposure. How
do you guys do you guys just do it i mean is it you have a system
or just i developed the system with an app oh this
is the thing you're talking about earlier as a workflow to get that stress.
I've heard of this. Have you been putting ads out

(47:41):
Because it's ready in January. It's called workflow. No, it's
not called workflow. It's Illum. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's more
efficient and illuminating your growth
with your studio, you know, so it's specifically a social
media. No, it's just for your personal assistance
as an artist, so you don't have to spend that much time making

(48:04):
plans about how you can handle all these
other things beside the art, you know. So it
is built on my experience being nearly 20 years a tattooer. What
are the stressful and really annoying things in your work
life, in your work day? And the app works like

(48:26):
a silent, soft assistant on your side who's tipping
on your shoulder and saying, we're ready for this step. And I
thought about this one. And you can go to sleep because everything
It's in the first, the first month of 2025. So
it's just about five, four months.

(48:47):
And then, uh, you can, uh, you can pre, uh,
sign and you get the message when we're ready to
download in the app store, um, on www.elume.
It's like E double L U M E and then dot
studio. Okay. Yeah, you can sign up Aaron. I

(49:10):
Well, if you want to, I will check it out. I mean, I'm my
positions. I have, you know, owning these shops. I
have people I have actual to assistance, you
know, but I'm thinking of of people. Regular
Am I allowed to show you just how it looks

(49:31):
like in the end? Yeah, let's take a look. This is very important
for me because I always search for good people who work for me, like
shop assistants and management and stuff like that. But
you know how humans are, sometimes they get bored behind the
desk and stuff like that. So in the end, I found myself
very often, I don't want to, you know, I don't know the culture here

(49:52):
is very much better, because you get tips as a desk
manager, and everybody's friendly to you. But in Germany, this
job is very difficult to handle and to be motivated
on it. And in the end, I found myself paid a lot to
the people to do the job. But in the end for myself to
have to do it all myself, you know, so, because it wasn't that

(50:13):
structured. And then I found it with a very good friend of mine, um,
who's a programmer for apps and stuff like that. He always recognized
stuff like that. So I created this Illum app and
in the end it will be look like that. There's always on the dashboard. Yeah.
It's not ready to go right now. This is just a prototype for, for

(50:37):
Supply levels. Supply levels. Appointments and
Social media. What's going on with your social media. This is the click
show. New clients. There's a section for that. All
And you have like the like

(51:00):
reference pictures from your client. Yeah
and then it shows you like inspirational help for
Yeah. And if you just type on it, you can get the
client's file details and then you can go on it and then you see

(51:20):
how many visits he has. So he's a loyal customer with six visits
and how many references he send it to you. And then you can
create, you can call him if you have questions like here. Or
yeah and in the end you can go like to proms like the AI
and they are searching a text over the reference pictures
and then you can create you know you make you can make creations. So

(51:44):
for inspirational help and if you don't show up.
If i look up a client's name in my calendar i didn't
have to go to photos folder which is this is
all in one solution if i want to know what money he has spent or been
to the shop i have to go to another program that tells ya

(52:05):
so i'm gonna like three or four places to figure out the
And here you can see what you already did on him. So you
can add on the new idea and you stay in focus what
you did already to the client, what he sent it to you. And
this is just the inspirational head with
the client file. It works just so good. And when somebody's

(52:27):
coming, there's auto search and all your clients and all the numbers and
all the information about the client. And it's just an all in
one solution. Such an intelligent, soft assistance
for you as a solo artist. And we already have like programs
for teams. You can like put up to 50 people
on the app. You just pay it once at a shop and then you can share

(52:48):
all the information. Maybe if you want to change clients for a quick tattoo
and you don't have this slot in your day or
time, you can just change the information about
the clients in the studio. And so
you can work together as a team on it as well. And the supply level
is always like the main information for everybody. They

(53:10):
can add things which they recognize, they can
add things on the order list, and
then the responsible person for it can always see,
oh, he needs some new needles, or this one is going down,
so maybe we should order it and stuff like that. So it's just for
close contact services. Because I'm so long in this business, I'm

(53:31):
trying to Get every like stressful problem what
you have in organization beside the art. I have to try
to put it away from you so that you can concentrate on
your just clean artful day in this. So it only
works for professionals. It's not for the customer side
or the client side. This is really a help for someone who

(53:52):
runs a shop. That's what the main focus is.
It's not like all the other projects like making
a connection between the client and the service people.
It's just to help you as a tattooer to be just
100% concentrated and be light on your mind to do your

(54:14):
I have to write a... I forgot to buy something or something like that. This is mine. Who's coming
I have one of those already. This little pad of sticky notes. That's how
I do it. I need five liners and fourteen round
Download Illume. You can get rid of that. Download this
Well, I would probably... I wouldn't use it, but I

(54:38):
And have everyone at the shop on it so that Yeah
because she has to go around to each artist or they have
to go to her this guy is telling us we're low on this guy says
we need that and then she gathers all that places orders and
if someone's asking himself at home who's
Normally you should write the shop management hey who's my next client for

(55:00):
tomorrow what is reference pictures are like in there and then you can
stay in bed and just prepare yourself for the next day you don't have
to ask or bother somebody, you just have everything all the
information for your next or for the next next client you have all
together and you can look at it and then you can just decide

(55:21):
Okay, that's who I would want to see that. Yeah, yeah. I
I'll talk to her more about that. I
can give you the... I have a quick image video about
it. So maybe if it's okay for you, I just pass it over
to your phone so you can go on the website and check it out. There's

(55:43):
Very cool and will be ready there's definitely a need for all that yeah i
mean i'm i specifically know as a shop owner for so many years there's
a need for that that's i think that's gonna be very successful. Thank
you you can touch on something i want to bring up maybe is this a
i think like how do you guys see that like you know. Used
to be had to be able to illustrate and i

(56:04):
still think that's helpful yeah obviously composition is
not doing that quite yet but i think it will. You know the people we
say well aaron they want this but only i know
how to make it into a sleeve i'm like for now pretty soon you're gonna
build a just upload a picture of a man's arm the guy you're gonna
tattoo or girl. tell that program this

(56:24):
person wants an angel attacking a demon with fiery
hell below and heaven above. And it's gonna give you 15 to 20 to
100 options. So the need to
be an illustrator has been removed, quite
literally. I mean, maybe we're still in the gray area, and some
people will still by hand on their own illustrate, but there's

(56:47):
gonna be plenty of people who could come into the tattoo industry in
the future who are not going to have to have the skill of
Well, Wells Fargo is not riding animals anymore, is it? I'm
sorry? They're driving. It's like the horse has been changed
to a car. Yeah. So this is new times. It's 2025 or

(57:08):
2024, nearly 25. I don't think there is, you
can always stuck to the old ideas, driving an electric car, but
making rudimental techniques for preparation
Let's use it i agree with you this is just the way it is and
it's okay and honestly it's probably gonna make tattooing better
in certain ways i've already seen like sometimes when

(57:32):
i go through my instagram and i see some of these wildly creative illustrative
ideas that are coming out. I don't know about all of them, but I'm pretty
certain a lot of them have been AI assisted. Of course. You can see it
in the work. So, you know, an artist who already knows how to illustrate,
he goes into one of these AI apps, he enters some sketches
he's done or enters data, it feeds out stuff. He takes pieces from

(57:54):
these things. He puts those together in his creative taste and
builds something new. But now you've got human interacting with AI
and at the end, Maybe you get a better product of course but
it still doesn't have the artist to get better in tattooing you
still have to bring it to the body that's always gonna be there technically
tattooing that might be removed one day i don't think

(58:15):
in our lifetime personally you know to get a machine that
my arm and it. I'm not saying it
I will cost so
much money to develop it. There is no person that
puts millions and millions just to produce a robot

(58:41):
I wouldn't be so sure about that, to be honest. I
mean, imagine 20 years ago, also nobody would say,
yeah, the people from permanent makeup would come and
go to the tattoo industry, you know. And I mean, if
you look at, I don't want to name or make some name dropping,
but there is a huge company in tattooing, which

(59:04):
comes actually not from tattooing. This is
not a Lauro Paolini who makes tattoo machines, for example. this
is someone just realizing or also a big
supplier another still no name dropping here but they
don't come from tattooing they are not tattooers they just see
hey there's a market there's money to make and

(59:27):
with this information they say okay let's we have that
we have the power the financial power the economical power to to
like go into that market and I don't
want to sound like a gatekeeper or something, I mean between 16 years
it's nothing, and I don't want to like sound like that,
but no one would have ever

(59:48):
thought, let's say maybe, I mean 20 years ago,
I would, I'm now just guessing the time, that they're so
big, they're such big Companies coming
into the market and trying to intervene in
Well, I mean, think about this. Okay. Well,
first of all, I'll say, I don't think that what we're talking about is

(01:00:10):
going to threaten our personal careers. So
we'll get to that, what is happening in our careers in a second, but
I think you're right. I mean, when you think about, I know
that the tattoo industry, just the act
of performing tattoos, not the inks and all the equipment, is
in the billions per year. So you have a market as

(01:00:33):
billions of dollars when you have a market a large you got this guy over
here is making a weapon development or whatever that's
right and then suddenly is like that it's our company gonna be like
we already have a lot of this technology. We just adapted we
can access thirty to forty percent of a billion dollar market they
would be motivated to make that machine that you put your arm in, There's

(01:00:53):
your tattoo so i do believe that that day could come it's
probably not in our future but in our current
reality it is true that this thing is is
in our industry you need to be an illustrator has
been removed. But i do believe that it's that fusion that
i think is beautiful like the artists that are. You know, they've been tattooing long enough

(01:01:14):
to understand good composition, the right colors to use, the right placement,
all these things. Then they get the AI to maybe create some art
that's a little different, give them a novel idea like, huh, I never really,
I wouldn't have really interpreted the idea like that, but I can use that. And
then they come in and the two combine and make great art. You know, it's, yeah.
So in the end, we're actually just talking about tools. This

(01:01:36):
would also have been my answer to the question with Instagram.
I wouldn't be too judgmental about things.
I know it's like a little bit of this reckless diplomatic blah, blah,
blah. But in the end, it's just a tool. It's
a task you have to go through. Me, for example, from
cleaning the toilet to the first customer contact,

(01:02:01):
to social media. It's a one man show or
one man and woman show and looking at the shop I have with
Anna together, you know. So it's a super, super fun thing. And
I guess also, whether you talking about
AI now, speaking about AI now, whether you make
a reference search, for example, with photographs of

(01:02:24):
faces, skulls, whatever, or whether you are
just putting it into AI and then having the reference,
you still have to, you know, like, go over it again. So in
the end, I don't know how much it's changing, you know, like,
I don't know if that was Google spitting out that picture or AI
spitting out that picture, because in the end, it's still When

(01:02:48):
we're talking about individual work or individualism, you
still have to change it and
put it or translate it. Maybe translating is a
better term for that. So I
don't know. I mean, I had in the beginning my problems with
it, I must be honest, but that's also maybe

(01:03:11):
like when I remember in the like
15 years ago when there were tattoo shops who had internet, you know, like Google
Research, everyone or the other shops around in
the same town that yeah, work with internet
now, everything will look like Google, you know, so
maybe this is just an

(01:03:34):
expanding move of that with the AI, so I
guess it's just, as you said it earlier, the
cat is out of the bag, you cannot put it back in, so you have now cards with
which you have to play, you know, that's it. So
there's no need to hate against it, it's
just happening and you do it like just

(01:03:56):
the way how you can deal with it, because in the end you're solitary
Agreed. I agree with everything you said and I'm fine with it
and I do think it is a tool. But there's no doubt that
it's going to allow more people to become
tattooers. Like the thing that the wall that

(01:04:17):
stopped people from when I tattooed as a young man was
if you couldn't draw what the customer was asking for, you're
done. Or you work at a street shop with flash, and that
was another job. There were two different jobs. You hadn't even had it. They're like, that's
a custom tattoo shop, and that's a flash shop. They were
separate things. But that's no

(01:04:38):
longer a wall of a barrier of entry. That's gone. I'm
some more people can come come on come on in the
end the full experience and what you bring to the table the
love the commitment the authenticity. And and
i personally believe you know speculating about a i and its effects
on the creative world i think though in the future. The

(01:04:59):
people that work with their hands and make things the pottery maker
the welder the tattoo artist i think that way
that handmade aspect will become more valuable. You
know so right now we're going to this new renaissance where everyone thinks
it's super cool you know like right now people are buying a
i are for their houses i think that's gonna be. Not so cool

(01:05:22):
at some point because what do people want from art in the end something
unique that nobody else has. And so if i walk into someone's house
and i see this amazing a i make some. Incredible art
i mean it just boggles your fucking eyeballs i get beyond
what i even think a human could do. I mean some of these art
things i'm seeing on instagram that are moving like a face

(01:05:42):
is turning into mushrooms and into space and into a woman and
into a horse running and back to a. You
know i sign it yeah i'm just looking at this like what the fuck
like. No offense to humans but i don't think a human can do that maybe
a human if you worked. For a year might
be able to make that and meanwhile this little generator play made that in and

(01:06:04):
you know. Maybe someone fucked with a little bit but maybe an hour of
changing the prompts and boom there it is but as cool as that is.
If i went into someone's house and i saw that thing happening on a television in
their house like this piece of art i bought it. I would be
relatively impressed now, but I don't think anyone's going to be that impressed in
10 years. Yeah, no. As opposed to walking in a house and seeing a

(01:06:25):
painting, like that one that's hanging above you, behind you right there. Yeah. Not
as interesting and captivating as some of
the AI art, but you know, like a human, there's hair
in that, there's skin. I think that'll become probably more
valuable in the future. Yeah, of course. So maybe it's a
good thing. It's just interesting. It's interesting to watch this whole thing. It's

(01:06:51):
So fast. And the thought what I have about all this topic is,
if you generate and you get a more easier way for
being a tattooer because you're generating your illustrations
and stuff like that with AI, It still will be very hard to
have the joy of the day of your artwork during so many
hours to processing is to the skin because

(01:07:14):
this just needs love
for the craft from you. Otherwise, it's very hard
to overcome a whole workday as a tattooer. Even
if the preparation is more short now and the ideas are more generated
from AI, it's still a very hard thing if you don't
really love tattooing to be that joyful in

(01:07:36):
a day for six to eight hours. It will be very hard.
You know, and you're right. It's hard to
sit down and look at something, you know, staring
at it and do it for six, every day, every day. And one
of the ways we get through that is it's our art, it's our soul,

(01:07:57):
it's our heart. But if but if it was jerry by a
technician difficult job as a technician that's why it's like being on
the assembly line putting little things on to computer
chips into phones as i go singing by you all day, good luck
And I think this is a very positive thought about that there

(01:08:18):
is not this much amount to expect of the tourists who
are just soulless workers, you know, because it's hard to
have a good life with this like main work
as your work, you know, it's hard to have a good life because
you will be always be kind of annoyed or kind of You know you
don't want to be there you don't want to do this job because you don't really love it

(01:08:40):
and that will be our security program to that.
Really good artists with good skill and with good
communication base and with a good empathy for people. I will
I agree but it certainly is fun to watch yeah it's just to watch this
changing landscape i find it wildly entertaining and

(01:09:01):
not just for tattooing just the world like how what is this AI
gonna do. When will it finally cure cancer? And when
will it make its first bioweapon? When will it,
you know, from the good, good, good to the bad, bad,
bad. I'm shocked we haven't seen any crazy shit
go down yet. I really am. I know we have seen some,

(01:09:21):
but I mean, crazy. Like, everyone in
Tokyo is dead today because AI created a fucking new
germ. Six people did it in some
fucking cave over in some country somewhere else. I
No, yeah, I mean, that's the crazy part is what we know

(01:09:45):
is crazy. And now we know there's a whole chapter, a
What the fuck are they really doing over there? Yeah. I mean, email was used in
the military way years before the first email
I've been told the wars of the future will just be, uh, Cyber
attacks. I mean, think about it. If you want to

(01:10:07):
destroy a country, you could do it a lot quicker by shutting down their
power grid or fucking up their entire banking system.
I read the book. Blackout is the name. I don't remember the
author. And it's a simulation. It's a simulation out
of different perspectives. What would happen if we wouldn't have energy

(01:10:30):
For only energy. Every other source is there,
is available. It's just electricity, energy that
is not there for two weeks. It's
the end. Really, it's crazy. Because
on the first glance, I
thought, well, we go back to Feral, you know, we

(01:10:52):
hunt our own stuff. No, it's like, it already starts
with a simple thing like flushing your toilet. Like when
the pumps are not working, You cannot flush the toilet. You
know, this is like, you start getting sicknesses. I
Yeah, it's super crazy. But finally

(01:11:14):
AI will not work. But
then they will call it like, you know, this from the human slaughter.
With the animals, they will have the humane warfare, like
just throwing like some neutron bombs and stuff on
the planet. It's wild, it's super wild and

(01:11:35):
I mean, as a somewhat Buddhist, I just believe
that Nothing's ever wrong. Yeah. On
some fucked up way. It's all the way it's supposed to be. And then,
you know, I think this is what, I don't know why, but
humans seem to be dead set on evolving technology.
And I don't know why, but I have a feeling it, it

(01:11:58):
leads us somewhere better in the end. Of course. And you
know, this phase we're in right now is, um, it's like
the teenage years. It's a scary phase. It's like when you first
get your first car to drive, but you're still a dumb ass.
You're just a kid. And you're, you know, I know I have
teenage kids and I remember giving them the keys like fucking good luck, man. Fingers

(01:12:18):
crossed. That's us as a society. And we got
to go through that. And there probably will be a few car crashes. But
I think we'll get through it. We seem to always get through it. And this will probably be,
if you think about a future, a better future for humanity, I
think we're going to need AI. I mean, we do have some major problems
that we can't just beyond human intelligence in

(01:12:39):
a way we need computing power at extreme.
We need quantum computers. We have to solve these problems.
So if we're going to get there, wherever there is, we kind of need it.
So I think it's good. And it's an exciting time to
be alive. It's like being in a sci-fi movie right now, or I

(01:13:01):
The development is the, um, I don't know
the English term. The, the, the, the postmodernism is
like, like, the curve of new inventions and
developments. I mean, if you watch from the
phones in the car to the mobile phone, from the mobile phone to
the smaller mobile phones, you know, the ones without the antenna

(01:13:24):
on it, to smartphones, to tablets. And you know, as
you used the term earlier, the cascade, it's like it's getting quicker and
quicker. It's like the curve of new inventions is not
exponential, but it's going like this. was like

(01:13:45):
Huge. Ten years. Fuck, I
Can't even imagine. In the 19th century, ten years was
not, you know, there was not that much of a development. Yeah. I
mean, I'm not a historian, maybe a historian would disagree, but from new
inventions, I think Yeah.

(01:14:10):
I would totally agree with what you're saying. Like we have no idea what's
It's exciting to have the unknown. Yeah. It's
like before they discovered the North American continent, there was
still undiscovered land, undiscovered place.
We've done all most of that. But now we have this new frontier,

(01:14:33):
which is an undiscovered future that no one can totally
Well, the good thing is in history showed us that development
is always like painful, but in the end, we get
I agree. Very cool. Well, let me
ask you a little bit about, you know, like I said, in my introduction, I'm

(01:14:54):
always interested to hear what's going on in the world, you know, and not, you
know, everything from economy to to
the tattoo industry, um, the ink laws,
like what's, what's going on in Germany. Tell me about Germany. Tell
me about Europe. Like how's the econ? I, well, you said earlier
the economy everywhere, struggling a little bit here

(01:15:15):
to high inflation and uh, yeah, just strange
economy after COVID. But you guys
happen to be positioned in Stuttgart, which
is right by, Huge amount of manufacturing,
all the big cars and all this. So you guys are in this little bubble of a strong economic
bubble. So that's great. You guys got lucky there.

(01:15:38):
So far so good. But maybe beyond your bubble, like
how are things economically over there in Europe? Getting
Getting harder. And it's more like, it's
not that place anymore to be that unique. You
know, you have to follow the big
things who are still running and you have to add on yourself in

(01:16:01):
a system which is still working. And there's not that
much place for like small businesses in
art crafts. And there's not that much space
or place for trying to be individual
in this whole economic in Germany or
in Europe in special. So

(01:16:25):
everybody's now trying to find a way to
follow the masses and to get along with
it and maybe not to be pushed out, you
know. So that's why everybody is still quiet and
they're trying to be tolerant about all
the things that are happening because they still

(01:16:46):
want to be part of society. And you're trying to be
open to every offer that is given to you to keep
the situation as it is and don't go down anymore or
even more. We're quite humble right now.
We don't make like loud words and stuff like that. There is no place
right now for something like art revolution or

(01:17:07):
stuff. We have the courage, but we're keeping it in
the back because right now it's about focusing on
going in the right direction, trying to rescue everything and
trying to be stable. And that's what
Well, in my opinion, just like to
answer the question, like, I think it's a lot going on. I

(01:17:30):
mean, starting, you just said it
Now let's talk about that for a second, because we hear... That was wild. We
just hear the rumors about what, you know, basically you can't
Well, you can say, you can, you're actually pretty

(01:17:53):
well informed, and there was green,
blue 7 and green 15, I think, the raw pigment, they
were They were forbidden through the
ECHA, which is the European Association of Chemistry, as
far as I'm well informed. Anyway, there were
roughly 60% of the inks were forbidden

(01:18:17):
or were not allowed to be used anymore. And of
course, there was a lot of replacement coming after as tattooing
became like a bigger industry also in
Europe. We had this moment when the
company's shot, okay, they say, okay, this red is
not available anymore, or it's really illegal to

(01:18:38):
have and to use and to work with. So
we have this one, which is kind of a similar tone. Yeah. But
I mean, I don't have to tell you about how important
it is to have like a good ink, like
how fluid it is, how it heals through
and stuff like that. And I think the experience

(01:19:02):
the tattooers had over the years got completely destroyed by
this, with like, how do I use this red
with this orange, for example, and this yellow. So
they just used a new palette of inks and said,
okay, Here, this is what you have to deal with. Yeah.
And then start all over again. And I have quite a few friends

(01:19:23):
that said, well, to be honest, quality wise, this new inks
are not as good as the ones we had before. Yeah. And so.
There were people who stopped tattooing because their style was so colorful
and it's just not that bright anymore. And they were not able to
use it because they're in focus because they always do like sketchbook or
aquarelle style tattoos and they stopped tattooing.

(01:19:47):
Is there a big underground movement where people are just, I'm sure there's
They're super easy to
get. Let's be honest. I mean, I see all these guys out
I feel like every tattooer in Turkey is like this crazy

(01:20:07):
So they're getting their shit somewhere. I mean, we can order stuff
from the US, but we're not able officially to
You can get it, but if someone was to walk into your shop and

(01:20:27):
Yeah, but I'm lucky because like, yeah, black is all you guys
are both black and gray guys. So it was easier for
us. I mean, there were also a few, few inks in
the, in the black, black and gray, um, taken from the market, but,
um, you're still left with some good stuff. Yeah, a lot. Yeah, I

(01:20:48):
I'm sorry to say, but for us as a tattoo artist who had
the times with the full color, choosable, yeah,
and from every company, whatever we want to do is from
US intents, like all the good stuff. And
what was the problem in the end? It doesn't make sense
because all the people who got tattooed in the past, they didn't fall and

(01:21:10):
they were dead because of it. They're still living and
they're still healthy and nothing happens. So I didn't understand
if that is not proven enough that these colors, they
don't do anything to your body. So we were kind of
like angry about it because The decisions who were made, like
in fact that the law is written this way, these are from people who

(01:21:33):
It is kind of ironic, because you can still buy a pack of cigarettes in Europe, right?
I like the way they dealt with that in Europe. You get a pack of cigarettes, there's
a picture of somebody's black lungs opened up, and
it tells you basically, if you smoke these, it will kill
you. Yeah, but do it. But you can buy as much as you want. They should do

(01:21:53):
the same thing with ink. Yeah. It's fine. You think these are bad
for us? Just write it right on the bottle and anybody who... If the client agrees, what's
Yeah. But we are, again, at this point, I would say also
with the forbidding the inks, it's how it's developing. I
mean, I think it was Andreas Koenen, a
very, very, very great guy. Hi, Andy. He

(01:22:16):
said, well, you wanted tattooing to be big,
like he was not addressing people like us, I guess. You
wanted tattooing to be big, you wanted it to be loud, you wanted to
be like in the center of society, you wanted to
get out of this underdog zone. Well, there you have it. This
is also like, this is not only positive side effects, it's also

(01:22:39):
We came into the mainstream, and once you're in the mainstream, now the attention of
the FDA and our government is, look, whereas before
when we were smaller, everyone just left us alone. So yeah, it
is, who knows, maybe it's coming to America. I hear rumors.
There are some things in Congress, and I think it's

(01:22:59):
I hope not, really, because that was really... Get
Everybody come here at Guru Tattoo, you get great tattoos with great colors.
No really, because this, I don't wish that, because I saw it
and being part of this tattooing thing, whatever
you want to call it, industry, family, whatever. I

(01:23:21):
just saw it from the outside what it did to many color
artists. was quite heavy because I was, I'm actually
pretty optimist, even though I maybe don't look like
it for some people. I was always like, yeah, it's going
to be all right. I said the same, you remember with COVID? When you
said, oh man, I'm scared. And I said, yeah, it's going to be all right. It

(01:23:42):
was a few weeks later, lockdown, you
know, I was like, what the fuck is going on right now? And
I was the same also with the inks. I said, hey, come on, guys, you
will see there will be solutions. It will,
it's going to work out. No, it did not work out.
You really got a letter where they said you are

(01:24:02):
from now on not allowed to use these colors doesn't matter
or these inks doesn't matter how much stash you
have left over and for the suppliers was also
because there is not only this big big suppliers. There's
also small, nice, friendly suppliers, like... Out
of business. Yeah, for them it was a catastrophe, of course.

(01:24:24):
You also, this is, you know... I think that they
just wanted to our tattoos match our weather, like black and
They just wanted everything to be black and grey. Beautiful grey, dark,
German, brown, grey aesthetics.
Don't be that colorful in Germany. Come on. Be black and

(01:24:45):
gray. Don't enjoy life. That's funny. It's
If you're still gonna have people who want colorful tattoos, and they're not gonna be
able to go to a professional studio to get it, so you're gonna have somebody over

(01:25:06):
here. And then eventually, maybe those guys just start making their own inks again.
And now you see, you know, it's just, yeah, I don't think it's
the right solution. I think you basically just allow
people to use the inks we've used for 30, 40, 50 years.
I know a lot of guys way older than me completely covered
in these tattoos, and I know lots of people like that. I don't

(01:25:28):
know of one of them that had a issue for those zincs.
Not no one. And I know those people don't know people. So I mean, it's anecdotal,
but I would imagine if they were hurting people, I would
You would find out. There would
have been some correlation, you know. This is what I

(01:25:49):
also didn't understand about the whole thing. Like, there's no
proof. We had this younger Swedish, I think
it was a Swedish, but this I have to research about, where they
said there might be a correlation between a certain kind
of cancer and tattoos. But they also, within
the research they made, they said, yeah, but this
is not, You know how it is

(01:26:13):
with statistics. It's like, you know, you have this correlation coefficient
But they said, yeah, but the writers of it, they said themselves wrote
in it like, Hey, Now don't make any false
news, don't make this like a correlation, in

(01:26:33):
case you're tattooed your risk is higher, it's not like that. And
They don't know and until they know it should just be left
alone. And if they want to make people sign away acknowledging
that we don't, I'll acknowledge that, maybe we don't now. Yeah,
It would be a funny story if somebody's interviewed in the hospital, like

(01:26:56):
smoking and drinking and said, I'm dying because of my tattoos. Yeah.
Well, Man, well look, let's wrap this up.
Thank you guys for coming all the way from Germany to
visit me, and I'm really honored that you're here. As I said before,

(01:27:17):
I look up to both your work. Fantastic tattooing. Thank
you. Fucking awesome. But before we end this, we
could do this, like, what's next? Now, we've heard from
you a little bit, Philip, about this new app you're working on.
Very cool. Yeah. Anything else? Yeah. I'm
working on some other inventions to make tattooing for us tattooers, just

(01:27:38):
like a little bit more. You
have some alternatives. I can't really talk about it, about
the main topic, which is based on this idea.
But I have a patent pending on some
usable stuff for us tattooers to make a concept more
great transferring to the body. If it's okay, I

(01:28:01):
will talk to you in the future because it's just only two
months and then the patent and the utility model is just
safe for international and then we can talk about
it. But I'm always working beside my artwork for
great ideas to make my life as a tattooer and all the
good people around me. Just working on ideas to make

(01:28:22):
our job more exact, more
concrete, more and better. I'm just trying to develop my
working day and to just
transport ideas from my brain to real
life. So I'm loving tattooing so much. I
just want to commit my whole physical

(01:28:45):
and my whole mental power in it. I'm
so dedicated to the tattooing that I'm trying to
do everything I have, every idea, mental and
all the actions by physics to the first thing
in my life is just tattooing. I love it really much. That's
No, I hear what you're saying. You're using all your experience to

(01:29:06):
create products and services that are just going to make the industry better. You're
You're giving back to the art you love. I'm just helping my colleagues. That's cool. I just want
everybody who's a tattooer to feel these moments like,
ah, there's somebody who's making maybe
our life better or maybe just giving us options to

(01:29:27):
Very cool. Very cool. What about you, Markus? Anything coming up for you?
For me, to be honest, I'm just happy and enjoying traveling
again because I haven't done that in a while. Now I'm on conventions.
I'm going to Aachen, which is a very nice, very sweet
convention. It's in Germany. And after that,
I'm going to Barcelona. And then after that, there will be the

(01:29:49):
nice Paris convention. So to be honest, end
of my daily work. I'm very blessed with
my customers. I must really say that. I'm really thankful
because I had it yesterday with Brittany about it, like these things like
one of those. to do them. There's no
need for it, because all the things I can

(01:30:10):
do, people allow me to do on them, I can do them
the way I would wear it myself. So it's actually
a pretty good life. It's a great life, I
must say. Actually, it's very boring. I
must say it's kind of boring. It's like, I'm just looking forward for what
I've been doing the last 10 years, let's say. And, um, and

(01:30:33):
it's cool. It's, I don't get bored. I don't get tired of
Well, it's good that you have, you recognize and have gratitude for
the special place you are right. And we all are right now. It's
easy to get, um, Mired up and think that, oh,
I've got to go tattoo today. Come on. You get

(01:30:56):
Yeah, me neither. But some people say those things and I think, huh. You
should go work at an insurance company for a year and then come
Right on. Well, say it out loud. Where can people find

(01:31:17):
That's L-O-C-C-O-M-O-T-I-V-E tattoos
on Instagram. Okay. And what about you, Marcus? And me,
Marcus with a C, then this under
slash... Underscore Giuliano, underscore Stolls,

(01:31:38):
underscore... You gotta work on that one. That's a long one, dude. Jesus
Christ. Underscore tattoo. So Marcus with a
C, underscore Giuliano with a G,
underscore Stolls, underscore tattoo. And we'll have all that
on the show notes and everything, but it's good to say it out loud. Well, thank you
again, you guys. I hope you have a good vacation while you guys are here in

(01:32:00):
sunny San Diego. Hot, sunny. It's very hot here right now. And
I'll be seeing you both in March back in
Germany. Yes. In Frankfurt. Never been. You guys are going to
All right. Of course. I'm going to hold you to that. Thank you for having
Awesome. Thank you. And thank you guys all for tuning in. Keep those DMs coming,

(01:32:21):
all those messages and little love notes you're sending
to me, really keep the show alive. It's a lot of work doing
this thing, but I'm still really enjoying it because of all the
people that have been writing me and telling me that they're enjoying it. So please share,
like, subscribe, and stay tuned in for our next one.

(01:32:43):
Chats and Taps with Aaron De

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Crazy Germans' Episode ft. Marcus Giuliano Stolz and Philipp Trier

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

The Crazy Germans' Episode ft. Marcus Giuliano Stolz and Philipp Trier

On Purpose with Jay Shetty