The Pendulum of Acceptance: A Conversation on Gender, Identity, and Expression ft. Philip Wolff

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The guy or girl that's judging someone for their
wild haircut or the tattoo they got, that energy frequency
is the core problem with our world. This idea
that you should live the way I think you should live.
What a weird thing. Yeah, what a weird thing. What a weird thing. Your
haircut, your dreadlocks have no bearing on

(00:21):
my life today. Right. So why would I give a fuck? Yeah, exactly.
It's a, I just, I look at them and I always, if they'll engage, I
always kind of try to drag them where we're going right now. Like explain that to
me. You know, and that's something
we need to get over as a species. We really do. We've got to let
people live their life as they see fit. The only rule is

(00:42):
don't hurt others. That's the only rule. After that,
you can do whatever you want. I mean, this leads into all the talk about
transgender and gay and straight and bisexual.
Shit's about to go down.

(01:13):
Hello my friends and neighbors and lovers of the
show. Welcome back to Chats and Tats with me your host Aaron Della
Vadova. I've said this before and today is a major
highlight on this one but I've been tattooing for 30 years and
I look back on all those years of tattooing and I wonder, you
know, what's the highlight? What's the greatest blessing of that? And my

(01:33):
guest today exemplifies that. It's the relationships and
the opportunity to hang out with really well,
carefully thought out people that really consider how
to guide their life towards fulfillment. And
success, you know, not just financial success, but success on all levels.
And, uh, I've been fortunate enough to, to spend with this gentleman,

(01:54):
probably over 200 hours alone, hanging out, getting
to know each other. It's a rare thing. You know, how often do
any of you sit down with people you care about, turn your phone
off and just have a conversation for even an
hour, you know, in this unique job or trade I found
I do that for hundreds of hours on occasion with, with certain people. And

(02:15):
some of these people are just outstanding and they become my friends
and it's a blessing. And so for that reason, I
really wanted to have him on the show. What can I say about this guest? I mean,
he is a hairstylist and like tattooing, there's
a lot of levels to that. I mean, you can just be a
tattoo artist, you know, go to work every day, take whatever comes to

(02:36):
the door, go home at night. That's at the end of it. For some of us, we really
strive to go to the top of of that. trade.
And this gentleman has done just that. Over the last 27 years,
he has guided his career in a very productive way,
which landed him in a very unique position. He's, you know, he's
a lot of things. He's a celebrity hairstylist, you could say. I mean,

(02:58):
he's done the Kardashian's hair, Paula Abdul, Quentin Tarantino, just
to name a few. He's a global educator in the trade
of tattooing. He's a brand ambassador. He is
also a creative director. And he owns his own
brand in the hair industry. So, you know, he's very
successful. And I'm curious to see how he was able to pull all

(03:19):
of that off because it's a very competitive industry and you've
got to really have your wits about you and you've got to do something that the others aren't.
And I know a little bit about how he did that, but not really all
of it. And I think any of you out there that are artists and creatives could
learn a lot from what he's learned through his journey through
the hair industry. So, With all that being said, please welcome my

(03:40):
friend and my guest today, Phillip Wolfe. How you doing, Aaron? I'm
good, buddy. I'm good. We were just talking before the show started, and
I don't know, we started tattooing roughly 17 years
ago. You weren't just starting your career, but you were in the early phases
of it, you know? And we, gosh, I did both your rib panels,
and then we did your back piece, which, by the way, is still one of my favorite tattoos.

(04:04):
I like i look at that piece and i'm just like why i tapped
into something on now and it's my favorites for sure so
we had all that time together to get to know each other better and i guess it
in the introduction it's just such a blessing to call your friend and, that
to know you and to hear about your life exploits
to the degree where i'm like you gotta come on the show tell others about what

(04:25):
it is you've done what it is you're doing and where you're going. So, you
know, with all that being said, tattoo industry is so similar
to the hair industry, just in the basics. Like, you have a client, they
have a desire to express themselves. You have to really
be in tune with them. You have to find their frequency almost and
really read that person to figure out what's going to best serve them. How

(04:47):
are you going to, you know, help them express themselves in a way that's going to
make them fulfilled, right? And you obviously have done that. There's
a reason people stand in line to have you touch their hair. But That's
where you're at now i'm kind of curious about how it all started
you know how do you where did it begin with your journey into
into hair and then after we've covered that i want to know like what

(05:07):
what it was like to create the level of success you've created in the
Yeah, no, it's it's great. First of all, thank you for that kind intro right
there. And it's all true. And it's it's I'm honored to
be here. I mean, first of all, I love this whole setup. I
love knowing you over the years and how even you have grown
and evolved. So it's kind of cool that, you know, to see friends kind

(05:29):
of have those dreams and goals and then years later to
So that's really, you know, my my mom, love your mom. I
don't know if she'll listen to this episode or not. I don't know if she listens to too many of
them, but you know, she, there's nothing wrong with
my mom's life. And she's just an example of many. She just, you
know, went to work, got a job, paid the bills, and now

(05:52):
she's retired. And that's great. She often worries about me
because I'm constantly doing something new. And
I'm like, you know, I try to explain to her, like I'm a creative, like
it's, I'm like a tree. A tree is either growing or dying. They
don't sit still. Right. And in this line of work, in
this trade and yours too, I believe you

(06:13):
have to continue to grow. Like to not be growing is
to be dying. Right. You know and to
sit still is a form of slow death you
gotta keep pushing you gotta keep reinventing you gotta keep going
to the next level it's like that or or failure. You
know i don't have the luxury of sitting still maybe that's

(06:34):
calling an entrepreneur called a business owner called a tradesman
called a creative whatever you want to call it but in the world we chose you
gotta grow. And yeah, you're right. I have. I'm always, this
shows an example of like, what's next, what's next. There's always,
I'm always thinking what's next. And I think you, you exemplify
that as well in your, in your career. Just want to take a moment to

(06:55):
give a huge shout out to my sponsor, sullenclothing.com. Happen
to have one of their badass shirts on today. Super high quality,
man. You got to check these things out. But if you're a lover of tattoo art and
you wear clothes, check out sullenclothing.com. They
have some of the top tattooers in the world putting their art
on their clothing. Really cool stuff. Hoodies, hats, sweaters. I

(07:18):
mean, God, they make our pants, jackets, shirts. So
please check them out. And to you guys over at Sullen, thank you for your support. Now
And the hair industry, we say, you know, evolve or dissolve. You know, it's like one
of those things. Yeah. And it's true. And I'm constantly met
with challenges and this and that. But I think that's kind of what helps
me along the way, because I think a bored me, is

(07:40):
a dangerous me, right? So I like to be challenged
and obviously every day is something, but I think that it
gives me more of a short-term goal or even
medium. And obviously we always have the big ones and that
can always disperse into other things as well. But
to get to what you were saying, how did it all begin? Funny enough,

(08:01):
with my mom, actually, she did hair and makeup, you
know, growing up. But I didn't look at it like a career. I just thought,
oh, she does hair and makeup. Cool, that's fine. And she would always say, you know, you
But I mean, that's not me. Or so I thought. You know how they say, sometimes
moms know you better than yourself. That was definitely the case. I definitely tried

(08:24):
all sorts of different things, but then I eventually ended up apprenticing
because remember the looking in the want ads
on the paper and circling with a red sharpie, the one, you know, the
opening. So there was actually an apprenticeship opening because to
go to beauty school resolves money. And it
took about a year or so, maybe a little less than a year. And I didn't

(08:44):
have that kind of time. You know, I needed to get going. I think I was about 20 at
the time. So I apprenticed, that way I was able to learn in
real time, as well as make very little money, by the
way. I'll never forget. It was 187 bucks a week. I
just will never forget that. And that was my check. Very specific number.
Very specific. Yeah. I don't know where the guy came up with

(09:06):
tattooed on you. I know. That's a good idea. So yeah, I
started off there. And you know, I started to really understand
what the business was right off the jump, because he had
about 10 applicants in line. He was the owner, by the way, to the salon. They
all graduated from whatever school and they were ready. And
I never even went to beauty school. I just literally came off the street and he thought,

(09:29):
this is interesting. I like this. I want to experiment on
my abilities to teach. So I'm going to take you
on as an apprentice. And I was like, great. So
I started, and he says, he thought about it over the weekend,
he goes, come in on Monday. I came in on Monday, and
he said, actually, I thought about it over the weekend. You know nothing about this other

(09:50):
than maybe your mom did a few, you know, hair and makeup things over
the years. He said, look, I'm gonna take you to this hair show. It
happens to be the weekend of the hair show, and today's the last day. I said,
sure, let's go. So we hopped in his car, we went, and that's when
I kinda understood the other side of things. I mean, there was
people on stages, big company, music. actually

(10:10):
tattooed people, I was like, I was instantly, I felt
like, maybe this is where I belong. It was an instant
thing. The aha moment. The aha moment, right? Because it was like this weird
alternative world that I didn't even know existed. So I thought, this is
amazing. And he introduced me to all these people who later I realized were
legends, but I didn't know at the time, you know, I'm just some young kid. So I started learning

(10:30):
over the years, side by side with him. I was him with,
I think, a little over a year solid. And then I actually ended
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I lived on the East Coast back then. Yeah. So let me take you
way back. Back in the nineties two by the way so i did that

(10:51):
and then i moved on to another company they were based out of london but
they moved to the us and had many locations so
education is something that they drilled in us even from my first
mentor he just said this is what it's about like you
were saying. you know, keep evolving or really just kind of fall off
the map. Well, he was like, it's the same with this. He goes, you have

(11:11):
to constantly learn. But then at a certain point, you have
to give back, you have to share what you've learned, because we
got to keep the next generation going. Of course, he said, none of this probably
makes sense to you now. But if you stay long enough, it will. And
of course I did stay long enough and it did because I
came to a situation where I moved to Los Angeles. I gave up

(11:31):
a good clientele and I just said, you know, I want to go big or
at least let's see what happens here. So I went, it
was a humbling experience because let me tell you, Los Angeles is a way different.
They just do everything different than anywhere else. And especially from the East coast
where I came from, we had structure, we had, this is
the program, this is it. You go to LA, they're just like, so

(11:52):
how much do you bring in a year? Do you want a chair here? And
what can you do for me? And I'm like, uh, I'll work hard. They
go, yeah, that's not enough. Next. You know what I mean? So you have to really
earn your way and learn a new culture of how business
runs and how everything runs. There's no shop. Uh,
well, there might be, but the ones I went to, they didn't, they don't provide things.

(12:13):
You buy everything yourself. You deal with it yourself. So it was very
interesting how that worked, but I learned, and I happened to be lucky to
be around, always surrounded myself with just excellent
artists. You know, a lot of these were from France, because the
company I worked for was a French company at the time, but, and then before
that was a lot of UK, but just incredible artists.

(12:33):
So I would just soak it in from everybody, boom, boom, boom, and
pick up some things, learn along the way and a lot of trial and
error, you know, and then eventually started getting into
celebrity work and all that. All of this is very surreal at
the time to i was just kind of going through the motions now
i think what helped me keep the grind was number

(12:54):
one once i move from the east coast i didn't wanna. Give
up and go back home with my tail between my legs i was determined to
do something so i worked every day seven days a week i
worked at barber shop anything i could do to kind of pay rent i
was living on credit cards i mean i was. I was hurting because I
came out with a chunk of money thinking, I'm good, I'm good. And then I wasn't good

(13:14):
after six months, you know, all that money was gone. And I was like,
oh, my God. Luckily, I had good credit the time still at that moment.
But that's why credit cards, boom, boom, boom. And it was sad every
time I go home with a check. But it just kept me hungry.
So I don't know that I had answers. It's not like
I was like, I'm going to do this and blah, blah, blah. I mean, I was determined, but

(13:34):
I was open to asking people and taking advice.
Even if I didn't think much of it, I just did it. You
know, we didn't have the social medias and that whole thing back then. It
was just pound the pavement, go out, introduce yourself,
be social. I just tell everybody, hey, I'm new in town. I'd go to
clubs, I'd go to bars, I'd go to anywhere where I felt I wanted that

(13:55):
type of clientele. And I would just go straight up, right up to
them. And it's funny because especially when it comes to the male, female
thing out in public, you know, they just think you're going to hit on them. But
the minute you say, oh, I'm a hairstylist, I'm new in town, you have
amazing hair, that wall drops. And
now it's a more comfortable conversation. Here's

(14:16):
my card i'd love to do it coming for free i just love did you
hear one time blah blah blah and then of course it slowly builds from there
so that's the hustle right there that's the hustle yeah no
Successful people how do they have what separates them and there's probably
a few things but one of the biggest is just the one book i read call

(14:36):
it the stick to it factor right it's just. consistency. Right.
You know, this one book I read was studying all these very, very successful
people. And when they did the study, they were not just looking at their financial
records. They were looking at their, how healthy is their relationship
with their children? How healthy are they physically? They found these
folks that were what we would call successful in all those categories.

(14:59):
They tried to figure out like, what was the common denominator? And,
you know, the expectation was, you know, maybe they were born into a family
with a lot of connections or, Maybe they're better looking than other
people. If it's a man, they're over six feet tall. That's
the successful people. And after all this research,
they really discovered the ones that made it that far were just

(15:20):
consistent. They just kept moving. It's just
one step in front of the other, one step in front of the other. They add up. 10 years
later, it all adds up to some big leap, which seemed
day to day like you were getting nothing done. Like you said, Sitting
there asking questions listening to people that at the time your practice is
useless. And some of it probably was but the fact you

(15:42):
would get up the next day do it again and add up it adds up so i
think that's important cuz that's that is one of the things i want to get out
of you today was. You know how did you find this level of success
when there's hundreds of thousands of others who did not. You know,
and hearing your story, consistency, stick to
That's what it is. Yeah. Because then a wave of social media came. I

(16:04):
would say I'm, I kind of observed, this has kind of been my, my
way of life, I guess. I don't know. But I observe first,
and then I get into it. So, cause social media, when it
first started blowing, there's random people starting to really get followings,
and nobody really knew what it meant back then. It was just kind of interesting
that that would happen. And I mean, even like 10,000 followers,

(16:27):
like, if you think about 10,000 people in one, that's a lot of
people. And they're like following this one person, like, why? What is it
about this person? And I started noticing it happening with hair. And I
sat back going, wow, I wonder what all this is gonna do. And
it was cool, because I'd see very talented people with interesting
things from all over the place, all over the world, actually, which was cool. And I

(16:47):
kind of was anti. I was like, well, I'm more of a private person.
I don't know if I want to. But everyone was like, dude, you got to do it. And so
I finally kind of met up with a new group of stylists who moved to
town. One actually already moved to town, who I work with today.
His name's Alfredo Lewis. But we'll get to that part. But we
started just making videos. Just not it

(17:08):
wasn't about a trend. It wasn't about anything. It was just us doing
what we wanted to do It was that simple. It was a shop on Melrose
and as you know Melrose Avenue tons of funky people
around We're like walked out literally would do this. We
walk out on the street. Hey, you have cool hair You want your hair
done for free? Sure. Come on in and we would just

(17:28):
do it. It was that simple. I We had a barber, we had
my friend who did color, Alfredo, and me with cutting and styling. And
we would just team up, make fun videos, and then post them.
And one time, it just, one of them blew up, and we were like, whoa.
And then we were like, maybe we can do that again. You know, and
then we just kind of kept doing them. And then that's kind of how it all started.

(17:52):
Yeah. I was going to get to that because your social media
game is strong, you know, and, but it's interesting to hear it
wasn't, you know, you started doing it before anyone knew what it could
become. Yeah. And then you saw, you know, one goes viral and you're
like, wait a second here. Yeah. I'm like, whoa. Yeah. And yeah.
Social media. What a, what a phenomenon. What a phenomenon. It's

(18:12):
so different now, though, right? I mean, you, I mean, shit,
you've almost got a million followers at this point. So you were able to catch that
wave in the beginning and climb steadily to a very
strong following. Someone now trying to get where you're
at, I mean, it's almost impossible just because there's everyone's on
there now. Right. Yeah. To be unique on social media. I mean,

(18:34):
we think about this a lot in the tattoo industry. I mean, I don't like
it either. I was, I've anti, I'm still probably. Right,
right. You know, I'm like, pisses me off every time I've got to make a video or
my team makes one for my shops or whatever. It's like, why do we have to
do this? Why can't we just come in and just do great work? And
then they're, they tell people. Those days are gone. You

(18:55):
know, no one walks into a tattoo shop. I mean, maybe, but basically
nobody walks in and says, Hey, I heard about you guys. Let me look at the portfolios. Not
doesn't occur. They open their phone and they follow a bunch of
tattoo accounts. And then whoever's popping up on that feed is
who they know of. So two things are, in my opinion, happening.
One, you've got to be making content that's extremely new and

(19:16):
different and interactive. Or a lot of it just pay
to play. Right. You know, they, they always wonder when Instagram was
going, I'm like, how do these fuckers make any money? And, but they had a
plan the whole time. Oh, they had it all the time. Yeah. They're like, it's just like a
dope dealer. Like give, give them to him free. Right. But eventually we'll
get them hooked and then they're going to have to pay if they want some. Yeah. So it's

(19:36):
extremely daunting for the young person who wants to use
Yeah, and you know, it's interesting. I would say this too. Yes, if
you're a newer stylist out there and you're trying to,
you know, just build your following, this, that, and the other, it's interesting now
because we have multiple platforms now. And for
the most part, each one kind of has its own thing, even though it's very similar. I'll

(20:00):
give an example. If you're a new stylist trying to start out on Instagram, it's
a must do, but it is obviously super saturated. And
how do you curate something of your own audience and
grow that way? I would say a lot of maybe the younger generation
tend to go with tiktok now i'm on tiktok
i'm not really. So submerged in it but i do have one my

(20:22):
the guy i work with alfredo he's cracked the code i
mean he he's got like a million six already and the
guy just. Loves it because obviously he's seeing, you
know, feedback and he loves it. He just has
something that, you know, he likes to create these little stories and
we do it together on Instagram, but he's really good at it. So that

(20:43):
brings sort of a different audience. In one way, it's good. And
in other ways, it's very interesting, because I feel like
if you're younger and you're watching it, like, I don't know if you heard
of this guy on TikTok. Well, girls or
guys, they end up blowing up overnight for different reasons. But
they know if they do something that goes ultra viral, all

(21:04):
of a sudden, you can have 100,000, 500,000, a
million followers in like a week, or just a few days. So
then it comes difference. Do you have actual followers or
do you just have viewers that just want to
Like, did you just create something funny? Did you create something controversial? Did

(21:25):
you create drama? Or is it something that maybe
you get entertainment out of? I don't know. It's different reasons. But I think
that that is a different twist on today and trying to
break an algorithm and go, viral is, where do
you want to be and all that, I think. So when we started, no
one even thought about that. We were just doing what we like

(21:46):
doing. It was that simple. And funny enough, a lot of us already
had an educational background, so that helps. So we start doing,
if a company calls, oh, we can speak
on stage. That's another thing. You can be great on social media, But
if they put you in front of a stage, in front of an audience, can
you speak well? Can you educate without having

(22:07):
your back turned to the audience so they don't know what you're doing? It's
presentation. There's all that stuff. I mean, I actually was trained like
that early on. I didn't know why, because I didn't know when
that would ever happen. But then I go, oh, I've done this before. So
it didn't feel so Unnatural or anything, right.
So I have no problem getting up on stage. And don't get me wrong, I

(22:29):
get that little, you know, the little nerves, but that's great. That's because
I'm excited. That's because I'm, you know, I mean, we've done audiences
of thousands. It's crazy. We've toured India and all
Yeah, it is crazy. I mean, that whole phenomenon, I think
about it all the time. I mean, I have, I have kids, you know, I have a 19 year old,
well, I have a 36 year old grown man up in Montana. I

(22:51):
don't think about him in this regard as much, cause he's too old to
really be, have an iPhone on his hand when he was seven
So my son is 13. Okay. And then I have a daughter. She's 11. Okay.
So you know what I'm talking about? They have iPhones. Oh yeah. And

(23:17):
You know, they can watch it. And I do check, you know, at the end
of the day. So my daughter is an artist. She loves drawing and this and
I'm sure weird things get in there. But she swears. She's like, I
just watched the art. But, you know, I kind of take her word for it.
Now, I'm sure weird stuff gets in there. But, you know, for now, she's 11. You
know, you got to take it for what it is. My son's more of a not like me, but

(23:38):
he's very into sports and just a jock. I
mean, he loves football, wrestling. Raw basketball, he's
just that kid. And all his buddies are the same. They're all
into the sports. So they'd rather, he'd wake up and he'd want to go out. He doesn't care about
that. I mean, he'll watch it, but he'll watch sports clips and this and that.
So, but he will, he's funny though. He will tell me when weird

(23:58):
stuff pops up, you know? And it does, and he'll tell me,
you know? So, but it's like, I don't have him post stuff. Do
you know what I mean? Like, that's just me though. But I don't know that there's a right
or wrong out there. I just think you just got to monitor it the best you
Yeah. No, it worries me. Yeah. I
mean, it's not even like the weirdo that shows up on there, which

(24:18):
is a fear of mine with daughters, you know, some creep is
on there pretending to be a kid and meet me, uh,
But that's one concern. But the bigger one is just watching their
attention span. And you know, I don't want to
say that's bad. I don't know if it's bad. I mean, we're moving into a new era of

(24:40):
human civilization where we seem to be integrating with,
at this point, AI even. And perhaps the
mind of these youngsters needs to be different than
our minds. you know when i was a kid i would just entertainment was
sitting with a pencil and paper for five hours you know just in a quiet
room just entertaining myself by drawing things so my ability

(25:02):
and not only that but tattooing right to tattoo for 30 years i
have a very strong ability to just sit and focus on one thing and
not be distracted by anything else to concentrate and put my attention in
one Precise moment for hours for hours and
I see that just fading in these younger
people because everything's having you flick flick flick flick It's just this

(25:23):
this video that video this and that part does scare me I'm
like, what is that doing to the development of the mind,
especially the the creative aspect of the mind like I
For me, creativity is the ability to focus, to quiet yourself,
and to stay focused on a creative idea
for a long enough period of time to get that from your brain onto

(25:45):
the, if you're writing, written out, or if you're drawing, drawn out.
Or whatever. And, you know, I haven't seen any real
distinctive problems with my kids, but I
think about it. Like, what, what kind of people will they be when they're 25? Exactly.
You know, but, but one thing's for sure, they're not going to be much different than anybody else.
Cause everyone, everyone is doing it. Everyone does it. Yeah. They're

(26:07):
going to be, I don't know, I guess it's just, I never wanted to
be the old man who's like, Oh, this is bullshit. you know, how
it was when I was a kid was better, you know? And
I think a lot of old men do that, old women too. But this is
different. Times are changing and they're going somewhere that I
don't know where it's going. So it's hard to say it's bad or good. Maybe

(26:27):
it's necessary. Maybe it's part of our evolution into some
new species that interacts with technology and
But you know, what's interesting, too, is even when they get into their
teens, you've got the, you know, 15 second
videos, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then, you know, podcasts

(26:48):
are more popular than they've ever been. And those are an hour, two
hours, three hours. And I know a lot of that
is with more adult, but it can start in the teens.
There's teen podcasts as well. It's a good mixture. So
it is going to be interesting to see if and how that
affects people. But even in the adult world, like I

(27:10):
have clients that are late thirties, forties, single,
and they're on the apps, you know, and imagine how quickly
just dismiss someone just Nah, nah, in
one second. Maybe it's affecting everybody. I don't know. But it is interesting with
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you're right. At the same time, there's

(27:31):
this podcast thing happening. Long format. I mean, I listen to
Joe Rogan a lot. Three hour three hour you
know and i love them you know i listen to it all too that's the thing
yeah i was the whole three hours it's such a cool way to access
long format conversations where. Where conversation can
actually develop into some some deeper water you know it's

(27:51):
just not gonna get that on tiktok you're not gonna get that on instagram you're not gonna get that on
cnn. You know, it breaks my heart when you
see these interviews with these important people that are running our
country and it's like, ask a question, answer it, two questions, answer,
boom, on to the next headline. Like, we're not learning
shit here. Like, how can anyone really explain what they're

(28:11):
all about in those little brief moments? But then those
same people on CNN go off and sit at Joe's show or, you
know, go to Brett Weinstein's show and spend three hours. So
it's almost like a, It's out there. You just have to go get it
Right. Well, what I do notice is if I'm FaceTiming the kids or
I'm on the phone, I can tell automatically when I start talking

(28:34):
or lecturing, they call it, they go, You
know what I mean? When you lost them. Because I'll start telling them, well, you know,
I mean, and then I hear myself, oh God, now I sound like an old man. But sometimes
you want to say it. I noticed you lost them real quickly. Now, maybe that
could be just being a kid or that could be part of the flick, flick, flick.
Or, but I noticed this in person, though, when I

(28:55):
need to tell them something, I mean, They're not off. I'm
looking them in the face, right in the eyes. And so I think
digitally it's easy to dismiss things or change course.
But so far I found if I'm right there and they're right there and
I'm speaking to them, they got nowhere to go. I'm not going to let them go. So yeah,
it is interesting. attention span, if it's a device versus,

(29:18):
and I would say they have more time with the device than they do
with other people, I think, depending on who you are. I am grateful
that my, my kids are very social. My
son more than my daughter, but you know, she has her little friends that she does
her things with. But yeah, he's, he's always out, out and about and
probably getting into who knows what sports, but just, you know, still

(29:40):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should be grateful for that because not all,
um, not all kids are like that. Some are just glued to
that, that box in their hand. So yeah,
I don't know. Stuff that's on my mind. I think about it and you definitely think about
it if you have kids nowadays. A hundred percent. You know, another thought
I was, you know, it's interesting to me, like what we do for people,

(30:00):
right? What is it that we do for people? I've thought about it a lot, right? We
help people, I guess you could say, express themselves. If it
goes well, they probably even feel better about themselves. But
it sort of ties itself into our culture. And
I guess it's maybe always been a little bit this way, but it seems to be on
hyper drive, which is image. Everyone

(30:21):
is so concerned, at least in the West. I mean, I know there's probably
poor countries in the world where they haven't got the luxury to worry
about how their hair looks when they get up in the morning. what cool tattoo they're
gonna get in a month, you know? So I'm speaking to us, Westerners
that live in a very privileged society, and this obsession with
our image. And hey, look, it's why I

(30:44):
thrive in what I do, and you as well. So on
one hand, it's really important, human expression. But
on the other hand, it's so weirdly shallow and meaningless that
I kind of laugh at it sometimes. Even myself, you know, I look at all
these tattoos and I'm like, What am I trying to do, you know?
Do I have some kind of pit I'm trying to fill? Like, am I not completely content

(31:07):
with the way I was born? I've got to do this stuff. What are your
Yeah, I mean, I'm in probably the most vain industry out
there, one of them anyways. I mean, I know there's plastic surgery and all, but I mean, the beauty industry, you
know? I mean, people want to say one thing or another. I think in my experience,
I've found that, you know, in one hand, You

(31:27):
know artists like myself we love what we do because we get
gratification for helping others feel good
about themselves now maybe it's just momentarily because, eventually
grows out or hair eventually turns gray or whatever the case may
be but in that moment those are the moments we capture from
appointment appointment. Does it always go that way? No, but that's

(31:48):
part of the business and experience. But when you step out and you kind
of do a zoom lens, you know, you're stepping way out
and you really think about what life is really about and things of
that nature. I think that happens the older we get. But
you're right. There's the who cares type thing, you
know? So sometimes, you know, I do think about

(32:10):
It is. And in the end I'm with you, like whatever
on the zoom out perspective, whatever on the, on the zoom in
perspective, I know that I sit with somebody, we create art
together and I see the joy in their face. I see the, this
like do them, you know, they have this newfound confidence sometimes. Um,
it's very fulfilling. And so, you know, if I can do something that

(32:32):
makes someone, someone's life more fulfilled, then fuck,
I'm stoked. There's a lot of jobs out there where you
don't make anyone's life better. I mean, you get paid, but who's
actually benefiting from what you're doing? So I'm
grateful to be doing something that I can really see
that it was a positive effect on everyone I touched. Not everyone, right?

(32:54):
You have your exceptions, as you've said. So
I just go back to that. I can't... But I
do, as I get older, and I look at this obsession with materialism,
and it's always been there, I mean, hell, you can go back into the 17th century and
they were putting on wigs and powdering their faces and, you know,
it's really no different, right? It's not like this is a brand new thing. But

(33:17):
it does seem to be accelerated, like this obsession with material
It's a little crazy. It's a little crazy. And I know in the Western world it's gone through
the roof, but even when you look throughout history, I mean, 99 point
whatever percent of human beings grow hair. It's just part
of our body. Most of us have skin too, you know? And if

(33:38):
you look at even the non-developed world, you
know, braids and putting things in hair and just letting
it dreadlock or whatever the case may be. Adornment
of the human body has just been around for so long, it
obviously made him feel good or attracted by another, you
know, whatever that might be. So there's another aspect

(34:04):
I mean, we're the only animal doing it, right? Right. Yeah, that's true. That
is true. And from this desire also
comes space travel and AI and
maybe a cure for a specific cancer. We seem to be insatiable
in our exploration of reality. So in there
is also self-expression. You know, we change our bodies, we change our

(34:26):
hair, we invent computers, you know,
where that takes us. I don't know. I mean, I personally think it probably, I
think it just, we seem to be a species that's destined to expand
into the universe. And so. One of those, you
know, our desire to constantly create and
invent also means we get tattooed. It's funny to me sometimes

(34:49):
when the non-tattooed, you know, hair is different because no
one's really gonna judge you for the way you, well, they will, but
in the end, we all get haircuts. Everybody out there gets
a haircut. So you can't separate yourself from the guy that
gets a crazy haircut, because you get your haircut too. But tattoos
are different. Like you can not have tattoos. And then you can look at the tattooed

(35:10):
person and judge, you know? And
the funny thing to me is I say this to some of those people. It's like, oh,
so what's up with the tattoos? Why do you feel the need
to do that? And I just look at their shoes. I'm like, why'd you pick black Nikes?
Yeah. Mean, well, I need to choose. Yeah, but there was
also green Nikes and there was adidas. Why the

(35:30):
black Nike? I mean there is to me there's no different. We're
all curating how we look to the world Yes, even
in the smallest of ways or very extreme ways with piercings and
tattoos. I just don't think you could separate the two it's the same exact
behavior expressing itself in really exotic ways

(35:51):
Same behavior. You know, there's another thing. I think even in tattoos or
hair or whatever you want, any outward expression of
humans, there's a few different types. You know, there's the
ones that a type of, you know, it's a lot of
expression in and of itself. Outward expression just in your
appearance is such a powerful thing to a lot of

(36:12):
people. But there's the ones who they kind of want to connect what
they feel is what's in them And just kinda show
it on the outside in whatever way, that's what expression is
about. But there's the ones who really take some time
to think about what that is, and they know what that is, and
then they get that done for that moment in time. In hair, it

(36:32):
might be that moment in time, because you look back, I'm sure if you look back
20 years, you might have had a different haircut or color or
whatever, you know? Although there are the ones who have had the same their whole life,
but I'm not talking about that. But tattoos is a little different because, I
mean, for the most part, once you get it, I mean, it's there. You could cover
Removal. But more than none, that's something they

(36:54):
know is going to be there for quite some time. You can't rub it off and all
that sort of thing. So, but then there's the ones who just kind of, I'm feeling this
today, I'm going to cut all my hair off. I'm going to tat my
face today, but I'm 18 and I want to get a job. You know, it's
too impulsive. So I don't know that that's a true, you
know what I mean? That might be something else. That might be an F you to this, whatever

(37:15):
it represents. And I think that people who aren't into
getting non-conventional hair or tattooing in
general, it's easy for them to kind of judge because they, I
would never do that. That would, that's so abominable, you know, whatever
It's also, yeah, I mean, I like to try to articulate and

(37:35):
have conversations with those type of people because, I mean, what I see happening
there kind of is the core problem of our species, right?
The guy that's, or girl that's judging someone for their
wild haircut or the tattoo they got, that energy frequency
is the core problem with our, with our world, right? This idea
that you should live the way I think you should live.

(37:57):
What a weird thing. What a weird thing. What a weird thing. Your
haircut, your dreadlocks have no bearing on
my life today. Right. So why would I give a fuck? Yeah, exactly.
It's a, I just, I look at them and I always, if they'll engage, I
always kind of try to drag them where we're going right now. Like explain that to
me. You know, and that's something

(38:17):
we need to get over as a species. We really do. We've got to let
people live their life as they see fit. The only rule is
don't hurt others. Yeah. That's the only rule. After that,
you can do whatever you want. I mean, this leads into all the talk about
transgender and gay and straight and bisexual.
I love the novelty of life. Like, you know, that's

(38:39):
the other weird part of it with those people that are in that space of
judging the other in that I always like there was an old Twilight Zone
episode I can't remember how it was a guy that was doing this in the episode and
he goes to bed one night and he wakes up and everybody's just hit just
like him. They're like twins of him, but they all
dress very similar to him. The same. Their wives look the same. And

(38:59):
he basically goes crazy. Because what he realizes in that moment is the
beauty of life is the variety of walking out your door
and seeing some Mohawk, purple Mohawk
guy walk by you. How cool is that? How interesting is that? How entertaining
is that? like bring it like let's just see how colorful we can
make the world it's fine but i do back to my

(39:21):
point like that's you know talking about this and in
having that conversation because we really as a species need
to be much more tolerant of one another and
again the rule is simple just don't hurt anybody yeah Don't
lie to people. Don't steal. You don't do any of those things, you're good
Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And you know, that's the thing about this

(39:42):
movement that's happening right now. There's so much heated debate around the subject of
trans and all this stuff. And I believe it's just the pendulum swinging in
the direction we ultimately need to go, which is, you know, and sometimes I
think that that issue is pushed harder than maybe it
needs to be, but also how do you get people to snap out
of it, right? It's almost like has to be extreme for a while before

(40:03):
everyone just drops it and starts going, Hey man, whatever
you do you, I'm good with anything you want to do. And
I think that pendulum, that's where we're going. That's why I like the debate
that's happening. And it's a little ugly at times, but I
do think we have to go through this phase to the next level where

(40:23):
I think so, because the trouble that comes of all this is,
I think, the absolute extremes of
whatever side or whatever you want to look at or
belief is what gets crazy with some people. You
know what I mean? Because if you just, again, the zoom, if
you zoom out a little bit and you realize we're all people, nobody

(40:44):
wants to, well, aside from the psychos, but I mean, nobody
wants to harm someone on purpose. You know, they're just
doing what they think is right. And as long as it's not, you know,
That's pretty simple, really. Yeah. It's a little shocking for me to
see so much argument about it. I'm like, is it really this

(41:07):
It's very bizarre. I mean, look, we grew up in the 80s and 90s. There was
all that back then, too. But it wasn't that I feel like
it wasn't that much of a big deal as it is now, which is bizarre
It's true. And, you know, because earlier I was saying, like, I
look at my own body covered in tattoos and I remember me
as a youngster with a purple crown. I had a purple crown, you

(41:29):
know, crowns are right, right, right. Yeah. The old, uh, London hardcore
scene and got, you know, on reflection, I look back and I, I kind of
realized what I was, I was trying to make that point really is what I was doing. I
was, being extreme to the point to shove that
issue into people's faces. And then being kind of guy that lived
really moralistically correct. So I could prove them

(41:49):
wrong basically. Like, yeah, you're thinking
I'm something cause I'm covered in tattoos and I might have different hair, but
if you, and some of them never do, but if you get to know me, you're
going to find out you were wrong about me. You know, so it's sort of dismantling this,
uh, this frequency, this idea in certain cultures that
we need to shut that down. Right. The stereotypes. The stereotypes,

(42:12):
exactly. And I think if I had to pinpoint the
main reason I became a tattooer, got heavily tattooed,
I think it was for that reason. I just wanted to contribute towards
the dismantling of this backwards philosophy that
we all should fall in line into a certain, you

(42:33):
Oh, 100%. I remember when I was in the computer industry
at the time, actually computer manufacturing, we're on a line building computers
and all this during the dot com boom and all this sort of thing. And
I remember working with someone and he was like, I started working on my sleeve. I
think I was 19 or something. And he was like, what are you doing, man?
Who do you think you are you're a kid because you gotta be smart

(42:56):
like me you gotta climb that that corporate ladder you want to
be something like do you even think about your future. You're never gonna get
a real job looking like that man i mean he was
speaking so passionately to me and i just thought. Man,
that's, he's real hardcore right now. Like he's preaching it,
you know? And I was like, interesting, you know? And I go, hey man, this is just, you

(43:16):
know, what I like. He goes, man, one day you're going to grow up. I hope it's sooner than
later. Because who knows, you might start tatting everything up and next thing
you know, what are you going to do? End up on the street? And I'll never forget
that because that also helped fuel me
to, you think you know by looking at me, but you don't. You

(43:36):
Yeah. You know, I think, you know, a big portion of my success
economically was driven. It's not a good, it's
not a good source of power really. Right. Right. But it was
driven from that. It was like, well, shit, I've covered myself in tattoos. Now
I really have to have a successful life or they're going to be right. Right.
To my family, to my neighbors, to anyone around me, it was like,

(43:58):
I'm really going to make sure I'm successful now. Yeah. You know, so, and I
think both of us kind of understood where culture was going. I
know I, I did, I had an intuitive, like, this is not going to
be a big, that guy is telling you, you're not going to be able to have any financial success
by getting sleeves, was wildly unaware of what future
was coming. Right. Because we all know now you can do not

(44:19):
anything. There's still realms that wouldn't welcome
you. Right. But there's plenty of places you can go
where, hell, it's an advantage. Yeah. You know, I mean, in
your realm, I mean, the tattoos and all
this, this is probably good for business. It's great. You know, obviously in
my world, being tattooed, I'm a tattoo artist. But there's a lot of places now

(44:39):
where that's an advantage. So they were wrong.
You know, the world was changing and they couldn't see beyond the horizon
of where that was going. And then compassion towards
them is another thing I would always try to bring into it. You know, they just don't see
it. You know, and in that guy's world, what
he understood was it was gonna fuck up your life, and

(45:01):
he cared about you. Right. That's a guy just trying to care about you.
You know, very misplaced. In his own way, yeah. That was kinda
Yeah. So I try to remember that too. I don't, you know,
nowadays I don't get any of that, especially where I'm at
Yeah. But back when they were doing that, I remember just thinking

(45:23):
thoughts of like forgiveness and compassion, like, You just get
what you're doing. Thank you. But I'm going to do this anyway. And
we'll see. We'll see how this shakes out. You know, very cool. Well, the
other thing is, you know, one thing I've struggled with, still struggle
with is, you know, here I own three companies
now. I have two tattoo shops, 22 tattoo artists. I've

(45:45):
got children. I've got my own career. I've got the show. And
I want to be physically healthy. I want to have good relationships. Like
it's a difficult thing to go out and really drive
hard. in your craft or your career and
still maintain a healthy relationships and
physical health. So let me ask you a little bit about that. You're

(46:06):
a healthy guy, you've got these kids, you've got loving relationships in
your life, you've been with your girl for eight years, beautiful relationship there.
You know, it wasn't easy. I'll tell you that true. I have to say it's
been, it's, it's actually, it continues to be a learning process. It
has been a learning process. I'm grateful that, uh, you
know, Lord knows I've done a lot of damage to myself over the

(46:27):
years, but you know, eventually I got over that and
well, let's, there's many parts here. So let's talk about the balancing life
thing is with the, with, with relationship and being a parent and all that. I
mean, I'm still learning to be honest with you. And especially as they evolve into teens
and the older it's like wow but that those early years were very it
was almost like a, you know, you're not getting much sleep. You're just trying

(46:48):
to make sure you can pay for the normal things. And
you're like, I just bought a box of diapers though, you know,
that type of thing. And then it kind of evolves out, but
cause that's more baby stage. And then that's toddler stage. And that's
this, but I think now they're a little bit more self-sufficient, you
know, they go to school, they do their thing. And, you know, we, we talk every
day, you know, you have a day of the week that's sacred, like Sundays

(47:17):
It's family day, you know. But otherwise, they're busy. My
daughter's doing gymnastics or art, my son's off on whatever sports
camp he's doing at the time, and I love it. Go do that. Of course,
I'll go to the games and all that when I can make it. and then, you
know, home relationship. You know, I think sometimes everyone's just
on the grind. It becomes a, what do you call that? Hamster wheel.

(47:39):
Yeah, it's just the same, you know? So to kind of break it up,
I was gonna ask you about that. Me and my wife are pretty strict about date night.
Yeah. You know, our goal is once a week. Sometimes we'll get two.
Sometimes we'll have a week where we don't get one, you know? She also runs a med
spa, a natural healing facility. So she's a busy woman. But

(48:00):
we still, on average, we get that. I have a date night tonight after,
you know, the show. There you go. That's awesome. I'm looking forward to
Yeah, we do. I mean, we try our best. You know, it doesn't always work
out because, you know, Dani, she, you know, she
has late stage chronic Lyme disease, meaning Lyme
disease, and she's never going to get cured of it, but there's

(48:22):
ways to deal with it. And some moments get worse than others.
So a lot of things are unpredictable, but we, Try to plan
it. If it doesn't work out, we'll eat at home. Actually, I love grilling.
I'm a meat guy and I just love grilling. It's just one of those things.
We moved away from LA County, believe it or not, about almost two
years ago now. So we got a house and all this stuff. So I got my backyard, my

(48:45):
grill. I just like doing it. It's just one of those things. And speaking of
the health stuff, trying to do all that, it's
funny because recently, I would say within the last year or so, I made a
huge change in my diet. I was always felt
like I was relatively healthy and I would go, I'm pretty healthy, you
know what I mean? I never got to a point like obese or anything like that, but

(49:05):
I just felt bloated or something like something I was
and I always had shoulder pain and back pains and
stuff and knee pains and I started thinking was that just me getting
older or what is it, you know? Because I do work quite a bit. I'm on my feet
a lot. So I'm thinking what is this? But Danny being on very
strict with her diet and everything because of her, you know, well and Lyme is

(49:26):
the base of her illness, but then along comes
with it all these other bizarre infections like Babesia and
Bartonella, which are other things that come with Lyme, or
it can come with Lyme, you know, so everybody's different. Like if you and I
both had Lyme, we'd both be different, like the way we
would suffer from it. is different in each person. So

(49:46):
that's why it's so hard. And actually, CDC didn't recognize Lyme
or chronic Lyme as even being real until recently, which
means you get no healthcare for it. You can't get insurance for
it. You know what I mean? You gotta take care of it on your own. On your own. And even doctors couldn't
say, oh, I'm a Lyme doctor, because they go, but that's not real. So they

(50:09):
That's crazy. I mean, I don't know much about Lyme's disease, but I remember hearing
And just recently got... It's starting to, right. Because more and
more celebrities are now... How do you, how do you get Lyme's? Is
it... So it can happen from a tick. Okay. And the funny thing is,
is her doctor said she probably got bit. Believe it or not, so many
people walk around with it, but it's probably not going to affect them. it

(50:31):
just stays dormant and it may never wake up because how many
kids have been bit by ticks? Probably many. And so what it does is
around her early thirties, she started having thyroid issues
and that runs in the family and that they say woke it up, you
know, and, uh, She had no idea what the heck that was. I mean,
Lyme disease, you know? Because the doctor was like, okay, we checked you, but listen, are

(50:52):
you sitting? I need to tell you something. And she's thinking, oh, God, what is it? And
she goes, oh, okay, so what does that mean? What do I have to take? He goes, I don't think you understand
what I'm talking about here. So it's been years now. I think
five years, four years. And it's been a battle. I
mean, she got to a point where she had to be in a wheelchair and all
kinds of stuff. Yeah. It's on and off, but she can definitely walk

(51:14):
But I've seen things with her that it's brutal, you know, just...
And so a lot of her way of managing this is through
Before we go beyond that, what kind of diet are we talking that
So this is another thing on the side of it. Apparently before that,
she had a history of having to take a lot of antibiotics throughout

(51:36):
her life. And that kind of messed up her microbiome. Like,
bad. So along came with that many issues
on top of that. I particularly myself have, it
was in my early 30s, ulcerative colitis. So then
I had to chill on certain things, like spicy things or various... Actually,
I haven't had coffee in 14 years. This is tea. Yeah,

(51:58):
yeah. But, you know, so she started learning more about
it, but I'm busy working, you know. And she would tell me things. And
then finally, like I said, last year, I said, Okay, enough is
enough. I gotta try this. And I swear, I wasn't one
of those before. But now that I've done more research, and I'm
discovering more things that I've actually tested it on myself, things

(52:19):
like seed oils, you know, cutting out
just pasta sugar. It's very difficult, by the way.
Everything's got sugar or high fructose corn syrup or whatever the
case may be. And then if you look at food now, I mean, nothing's good for
you, really. You know, I mean, it's very rare. But I am to the point now where
I order my meats, we go to the farmer's market and get the

(52:39):
organic, you know, produce and things of that nature. And it
has made quite a difference. I have to say, just in my energy levels,
I don't have the joint pains that I used to have constantly. I
even started, you know, hitting the gym a couple of days a week again, because
I just thought, you know, why not? Let's see what happens. I actually stopped because
of my joints were so bad. And now they're better. I mean,

(53:02):
Inflammation. Inflammation. Inflammation. The source of
Even my face got like, not like, I mean, it looked bloated, but
like the sides of my face were wide. And I go, that's
like, is that bone? What is that? I started looking. I was like,
what happened? And so. You were inflamed. Inflamed.
Yeah, I mean, that's a rabbit hole of diet, right? And

(53:24):
there's a huge debate around that too, even with the
people that are deep down that rabbit hole. You've got these guys
over here, man, you should never touch meat. Right. In
fact, I'm having James Wilkes on the show, looks like a
month or so from now. I don't know if you know who he is, but he is the creator of
Game Changers. I don't know if you ever saw that documentary. It's probably one
of the most powerful documentaries proving or

(53:49):
Champion, championing, championing. You know,
yeah. Championing. Championing. Yeah. Vegetable
forward eating, you know, plant forward eating. He wouldn't
go as far as to say vegan, but just like, look, we shouldn't be eating meat.
Right. Meats are inflammatory. Very convincing documentary. I mean, God,
I watched it. I was like, I think I'm going to do this. But then you go

(54:12):
to the other side and you've got these carnivore guys. Carnivore guys. They're like
doing their lab tests and they're showing you, you know, you're never going
to get these types of vitamins from vegetables. You're never going to get this. So
I don't know the answer. I really don't. But in my life, the
thing I've done and the thing I tell people that are trying to figure this out,
I'm just like, look, don't eat processed foods. Yeah. If it's

(54:33):
got a fucking label on it, don't eat it. It's that fucking simple. I
mean, the things we should be eating don't have, there's no label on
a head of broccoli. You know what I mean? Saying this is what's in your
broccoli, all the preservatives and whatnot. There's no label on
a piece of fish or a piece of chicken. Just eat whole foods. Start
there. Yeah, start there. Start there. And then of course, processed

(54:56):
Listen, when it says... bioengineered on
the side of the box, that ain't real food, you know? So, it's
so bad. I didn't know how bad it really was until I
started doing more research and things like that. I've been telling my kids too,
I go, look, you know, you gotta, but that's another thing. Kids just eat anything and they're okay
Yeah, they don't feel the effects when they're young. Yeah, not when they're young until later,

(55:18):
but. But they'll, they'll, you know, we've been very strict in our kids. What's
in my house, like, good luck trying to find junk food. It's just not there. It's
not there. But they go to their friends' houses. Oh yeah. You know, some
of these people that they hang out at, I mean, literally you open their
cupboard and they just have unlimited, you know, candy and,
uh, you know, hostess treats and all this. And then kids can eat as much

(55:39):
as they want, you know? And they'll go there and they'll have
their little parties or whatever they do. But my
19 year old, man, the fights we had with food
at my house, it was just, I almost gave up. I was just like, fuck
it, go get a McDonald's. I don't even care. I'm just sick of the crying and
the yelling. But now she's 19 and man, that kid will

(56:00):
not touch that shit. She thanks us every day for being that way with
her. Thank you for not allowing me to be a dumb ass
Well, you know, in today's world, it's almost impossible to eliminate all
of it. But we can do our part and significantly lessen
the amount of that that we eat. And I think that's about as good as we can do.

(56:20):
You know, I mean, not everyone obviously has the means or access to be ordering
all this and all that. But I but just even if you cut half
of that stuff, I mean, it makes such a difference. Yeah. I just didn't
realize how much until I did it on myself and Like
you, I don't have the answers. I just know what works on me. And
again, every body is different because this body

(56:42):
may react to grape with vegetables. Awesome, don't
eat meat then. This person, what's that guy,
Jordan Peterson, he just eats meat and man, he's slimmed down. He doesn't
have, you know, so everybody, you just gotta find your thing, even
though some things are generally right, like the processed sugars for sure
are horrible. Both sides know that. Both sides know that,

(57:05):
Like everything I bet you it's in the middle somewhere. Yeah. That's what I
think. I don't know. But you know, with my wife at that health spa,
I'm at home and that's all she's researching. So I hear a lot of anecdotal stuff
through her. So I'm listening, but I don't know. But it, it, it doesn't have
to be, it just seems so black and white. Yeah. You know, the carnivore, just
eat beef liver. Right. I've eaten beef liver for 40 days straight.

(57:25):
That's it. Look at me. I'm yoked. You know? Yeah. I
don't know, man. Are we meant to survive on beef liver? I don't know. And
then this guy, I haven't touched, all I eat is vegetables for
the last five years. That seems extreme too. I'm like you,
I just end up in the middle. I eat a lot of meat, a lot of fish, a lot of eggs,
a lot of vegetables. And I stay away from that process. And the one

(57:47):
bad thing is I still, I drink wine, which
And it's important. I mean, to be out there winning in life, if
you ain't feeling good, you're not going to get very far. Exactly. And I've
seen that happen with a lot of my peers where just so talented

(58:08):
and so hardworking and doing it all, but their bodies broke down
and it's not going so good for them. Right. So you got to take care
of all those sides. You got to take care of your date night. You
know, if you got to go through a divorce in five years, all that money
you made, half of it's gone. And not to mention the headache and the stress and
everything else that's going to happen to your family, you know? Exactly. So keeping it

(58:28):
all in balance, you know, so that you can make it to the finish line.
Well, this is how I look at it too. A lot of people go, man, that's so expensive though.
I go, okay. Well, what about that medical bill you're going to
get in about 10 years and it's in the hundreds of
I hate that one, because I get that one too. Because I

(58:48):
order my meat. You can afford
to do that. And I'm like, how many TVs do you have in your house? Let
me see your wardrobe. Hell, let's look what you're wearing right
now. How much you pay for that watch? Here are these people driving nice
cars, wearing jewelry. They've got four flat screens.

(59:09):
What's more important with your money? Food
first. I'd rather live in a shitty house with no
televisions and drive a used car, but be eating great food.
So I don't buy that one. I mean, yeah, that does apply for some
people that, I mean, there are people who really can't afford
that kind of food and the processed diets cheap. I

(59:29):
mean, you can go to KFC and for 15 bucks, feed a
family of four. Exactly. Fifteen bucks. Fifteen bucks. And
that's sad. Yeah, it's horrible. I think for a lot of some people, that's
just the way it is to survive. They eat that shit. But you know, a
lot of these folks, they're just not prioritizing. Exactly. You know,
they're going to get the fucking Gucci wallet, but they're going to

(59:52):
Exactly. It's where your priorities at, you know? I
want to say one more thing too is about kind of reminds me of this is
when i started this is one thing i really admired
about you even early on i mean obviously aside from your artistry and
your creative mind and all of that stuff when i first
came to you in pacific beach and you were talking about

(01:00:13):
you know buying out your partner at the time and then buying the
building and all this stuff and i thought man This
guy, you know what I mean? And, and it's, you know, you weren't out
driving a G wagon or anything, even though you could probably could afford it then, but
you were just not, I got a Toyota truck and this, and I'm trying
to build this thing. And of course, the years later, you got different locations and

(01:00:34):
you got all this sort of thing and your reputation stayed great. And I've always
looked up to that, you know? And, um, one thing I think that
is so sad is the lack of
financial education. This affects from kids
to even adults, because it's not even discussed at
They're going to teach you math and reading and history, but they're going to

(01:00:55):
teach you how to manage your money. Nothing. Yeah. Nothing. That
falls onto the family. And I didn't really have that. I mean,
they did their best, you know, but I didn't have a wealthy family that
sat me down and taught me, you know, you got to put certain amount under your 401k,
son, and here's your retirement fund and you need a wealth manager. Right.
All this stuff. And I'm like, what? Yeah. So it's just, that's

(01:01:16):
why I really appreciate, uh, well, and you gotta be careful. I
mean, tread lightly, you know, but there's free education out
there, you know, free basic education of YouTube university, I
call it. Cause you know, then once you actually do reach out to
certain people, I used to think, Oh, a financial advisor, you need to be rich
for that sort of thing. But you don't. But nobody tells you
that. They put all these graphs and they talk

(01:01:39):
about the Schwab's and the J.P.
Morgan's of the world, and you just think, but that's not me. I'm just a regular guy
working nine to five or whatever. I don't have millions or whatever, but
I don't know. I think if that's someone's thinking about and maybe you got a new
kid on the way or something, I mean, start now. I mean, just
the idea of compound interest alone I think slips

(01:02:01):
people's heads. They don't understand how powerful that can be.
I wish I started earlier, you know, but I mean, it's
I didn't have anyone teaching me that when I was, I mean, I
did my father when I was in like the seventh grade, put me through a,
it was called PSI seminars. It was, uh,

(01:02:22):
you know, before the, what's that book, uh, you know, all
these books about manifesting. Right. The secret. It
was principles like they taught in that book in a seminar that
my dad had gone to and he put me through it and I was all pissed off about it. Like making
me go to this on my weekend. My friends are out doing their thing. And
I'm sitting in a seminar with 30 year old men being

(01:02:43):
taught this stuff and I did it. And I learned things in there. I
didn't even realize I learned. And I've been applying a lot of those principles to
my life ever since. And thanks dad. Cause, That's a huge part
of where I made a shift in that, you know, shifts are
funny cause you might turn, it's just like walking a long road. You
might turn two degrees to the right, but in a year you're

(01:03:03):
not much, you're not in a very different position than
the guy that didn't turn two degrees. But if you follow that V
pattern long enough, 20 years later, we're in wildly different locations.
And I know now that that small pivot made a big difference. But
the other thing that my dad always told me was, ask
questions with the people that have what you want. If you're asking about problems

(01:03:25):
in your marriage, make sure you're talking to somebody that you think has a very healthy, loving
relationship. If you're asking somebody about money or investments, make
sure they're wealthy. So I kind of took that to heart. And I
was lucky tattooing all these people all these years. I had every kind
of person come through my booth and they were stuck with me for hours. And
I would always identify what is this person really good at? Some

(01:03:46):
were really good at fitness. Great. Great. What are you doing? What
are you eating? How do you work out? This guy's, you know, got
this obviously vibrant, loving marriage. Like how do
you, Oh, you do date night. Oh, look at this guy with all this money. Like
what? So I would just keep at like you just asking questions to
the people that had what I, And some of them might not have been true, might have
been a lie, maybe they were just putting up a good front. But over a

(01:04:09):
long period of time, asking enough people that had what I wanted,
some common denominators kept showing up. Like, hmm, that's the
fifth guy that told me I need a financial advisor. Yeah. I think I
Yeah, no, it's so crazy that you say that because I'm grateful also for
what I do because all the different types of people that
come in. It's the same. I've learned from my clients so much.

(01:04:31):
It's over the years, you know, and now it's been decades, but it's like, wow,
it's been, it's powerful conversations like that, that we
got for free. Actually, they made us. You
know what I mean? They made us. So I think that using that,
and again, that's a resource that we don't really think about it, but yeah, so.
Well, we're going to tattoo today. Yeah. As I said earlier on

(01:04:54):
the show, I did Phillip's ribs. Then
No. No, I had little pieces and you blended it all together
and then you added this little piece in the middle, but it was just kind of blotchy and
Yeah. And then you added- You had a Tibetan skull, is that what I'm saying? Yeah, the Tibetan skull
and you filled in, you blended it in with the chest pieces and

(01:05:18):
Well, after all of this happening, Philip got left with a little gap.
Yeah. And you're going to fill all those gaps, aren't you? I'm filling in the gap. So
right at the top of your back, right where your neck hits
your hairline, there's this little gap. We're going to fill that. I
was saying earlier, it's kind of like the cherry on top of your back piece sundae.

(01:05:39):
It's cool because we've had so many, this journey with you
has been beautiful and enlightening and just
a highlight of my career. So to have this today on Chats
and Tats, to see you again after a number of years and
be able to put that last piece on you, I'm honored to do so. So
We're going to probably shift gears here, everybody. We're going to move over to the other side

(01:06:00):
of the Chats and Tats room and we're going to do a tattoo. After that,
we'll sit back down and have a few words about the
All right, buddy. Let's do it. Let's do it. And

(01:06:34):
we're back. All right. Yeah. For all of you guys out
Yeah, dude. I want to propose a toast. We got a couple shots of
Chamuco's tequila here, Reposado. Or is that the Añejo?
Oh, the Añejo. Chamuco's, got to check it out. But... I'll
propose this toast. This is a toast to you, my friend. This is

(01:06:56):
a toast to all the beautiful relationships that come from
what I do, what you do. It's also a toast to, you know, we put the cherry
on top of your back piece today, kind of the end of that journey we
might tattoo again. That really is kind of the end of this back neck
Sounds good, brother. Cheers. Can we get this microphone? Oh,

(01:07:24):
So before we close this out, you haven't been tattooed very much in
Oh, just like I remember that first second and it
Seven. Yeah. Okay. So we started tattooing
17 years ago. Wow. Help me out with the math
here like you're you're you're late 20s, right? And

(01:07:48):
you're a tough client I remember all my clients you sat like a champ
and I Have to ask you this because I hear this
from everybody the older we get the harder it is to get Oh, and is that
true today? That is the truth. I was a 45-minute tattoo. Yeah, I And
Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, man, I sat hours before.

(01:08:14):
And now just that is like, ugh. Just that is like the
For those of you listening, it does not get easier the older
you get. And I don't think that's your body. Might be a little bit
your body. Maybe you're just, you know, physically you lose a little
strength, but We just get used to our comforts as we get older.

(01:08:40):
Well, who knows? I mean, your upper body is, I don't see
a gap on you anymore, dude. So maybe one day those legs
get tattooed. Maybe they don't, but if they don't, that's great.
Yeah, no, it's been awesome. And so many years and what a way
Let me ask you two questions. What's next for

(01:09:04):
You know, that's a good question. I am continuing to do what I do,
but there are some new things in the horizons that are, some
are, we'll see how it goes. And some i
can't really say yet but if you follow me on the social you'll
find out but it's all exciting stuff having to do with just,
my involvement in the industry and things of that nature and some

(01:09:25):
some things are a little bit behind the scenes and creating things for
brands and stuff so it's it's very exciting for me, not always
just being the you know the front part but it's kind of cool cuz what
if somebody wants to get their hair done by you can that still happen. Yeah, it
can still happen. I'm not behind the chair a lot as
much as I used to, but I still love it and I still want to do it. So,

(01:09:46):
you know, if that's the case, then they can find me on Booksy or
usually it gets booked up. So, cause I do kind of like how you
used to do, we just do a couple of months at a time and then reopen, but
And people can find you the same way or Instagram is
Instagram. I am on the TikTok too here and there. Just

(01:10:11):
Awesome. Awesome. Well thank you again it's been an honor
tattooing you all these years all these hours together thank you
my friend i mean i often think about it like how blessed
i am and how much i love doing this and i'm just
so grateful there's people out here who want tattoos yeah thank god yeah
i don't know what i would have done yeah well and thank you because everywhere

(01:10:32):
i go people are always asking and anytime i'm at a shop and
They kind of go, Oh, wait, you have that bag piece or, and then I
show them and they're like, Oh my God. You know what I mean? Yeah. So
you're like, everybody knows you out there. It's pretty cool. Thank you
And thank you guys for listening. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for subscribing. Thank
you for all the love and the DMS I've been getting. Keep those coming. Please

(01:10:55):
share the show with some friends. We're still young. We're still growing. All that
shit helps. And, uh, until the next one, peace,