July 30, 2025 • 58 mins
In this week’s episode of Christendom in the World, Rev. Dr. Edward Naumann joins us to discuss his work with the South Asia Lutheran Mission—a grassroots effort to equip pastors and congregations with faithful, doctrinally sound resources across Nepal, India, and beyond.
Dr. Naumann shares how the mission prioritizes open-access publishing, local printing, and long-term relationships built on trust. He tells powerful stories of entire villages in Nepal converting to Christianity, often at great personal cost, and explains the mission’s focus on education—from teaching the Small Catechism to translating liturgies and hymnals.
We also talk about the dangers of dependency, the challenges of discernment in international mission work, and the surprising ways Western churches can learn from newly converted believers in places where the Gospel is taking root with boldness and urgency.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
All right.
So on Christendom in the world today, we sit down with Reverend Dr.
Edward Nauman, pastor of what?
St.
Paul and Brookfield, Chicago area.
ah So we're here for this, this Camp Trinity Academy event.
ah So I suppose before we talk about what we were going to talk about, how do you like inCamp Trinity Academy?
(00:30):
Yeah, it's great.
Yeah, great lectures, great people here.
They're all having a lot of fun.
Since I'm tired of hearing myself explain what it is, could you explain what it is?
Yeah, so it's a camp for boys who are thinking about becoming pastors or in that processof discerning, whether that's something they want to consider.
(00:52):
And they sit down with local pastors and uh they learn about theology or church history,dogmatics.
And then we have fireside chats and there's library time to pick up and choose a kind ofbook on theology in your area of interest.
uh
Then there's free time and pool time when you can go canoeing or fishing and kids have alot of fun.
(01:18):
I think it's a lot more freedom than your average uh heavily structured camp.
Kids are told where to be and when at all times.
I think it's because it's just run by dads, pastors who are dads.
And we're just like, what?
You want to go fishing at uh midnight?
Yeah, OK, just don't get bit by a snake.
(01:42):
Yes, yes, yes, of course.
course.
Kids are safe.
Yeah, they're fine.
Yeah, think.
Yeah, sure.
So there was.
uh So Hannah, I don't know if you heard about this, but there was a uh
Your mom came up to me and said, hey, Pastor, uh there's these parents of this boy.
I won't mention his name, some boy and his dad wanted you to call him to make sure thatyou knew to contact both him and his mom or something like that.
(02:13):
And I saw the name and I was like, his first name was Wesley.
And I was like, uh I don't.
think there is a Wesley here.
So then Pastor Nauman just shouts out to the kids like, hey, kids, is there a Wesleyaround here in your cabin?
(02:34):
Do you know a Wesley?
And they're just like, no.
Like, yeah, I don't think there's a Wesley.
And it turned out that he just thought he had the wrong camp.
So we were just like, oh, not really like pretty sure, but not.
100 % sure that there wasn't a kid named by that name here.
(02:55):
So anyway, no, it's been, uh it is a lot of fun, a lot of free time.
And that's kind of the idea too, is that we want them to be able to, part of the idea ofthis is for them to have uh be driven, have some mentorship, but also be kind of
self-driven.
(03:18):
in a way motivated to pursue what they're interested in.
You know, that's why we give them books that we try to match what
what interests them, they fill out in their registration packet what part of theologythey're interested in, what theological topics they're interested in.
So we go to the library and we get a book form and say, hey, this might actually beinteresting to you.
(03:40):
And sometimes, you know, they might read a little bit of it and they kind of put it down,but at least we're giving them some kind of exposure so that they can pursue and discern
uh what they might.
do with their lives and maybe they want to be pastors or at least be good fathers in theirhomes, which is really the most important thing uh that our church desperately needs in
(04:05):
this day.
So anyway, so thanks Dr.
Naumann for your services here.
I couldn't run this camp without you and the other help.
uh Anyway, so I thought since you're here, I'd have you on and
we would talk about witchcraft.
(04:26):
uh Just kidding.
He's reading a book about witchcraft and he said he didn't want to talk about that.
ah But no, no, What I wanted to talk about was your mission work that you do.
You serve a local parish, but you also have a mission society called uh South AsiaLutheran Mission.
(04:47):
And mainly what you do is you publish material
And but you have an interesting way in which you're able to do it in a very uh inexpensiveway and allow good theology to be distributed around the world uh very efficiently.
(05:08):
And could you explain what you do with South Asia Lutheran mission?
Yeah, well, essentially we focus on educational needs of South Asia or South Asiancommunities, which doesn't necessarily, isn't necessarily limited to South Asia
regionally.
(05:29):
So you have South Asian communities throughout the world, including the USA and Canada.
And we...
send teachers where we get requests for teachers to come and teach the small catechism oronce the small catechism is taught come like take us further so we send someone to teach
the Augsburg Confession or then liturgy or some other topic.
(05:53):
So teaching is half of the work really and then the other half is publications and thepublications uh you know it takes a long time to produce a publication
But we want these publications to be able to be used by whoever needs them.
So we will print not in the USA, but locally, if the people who need to use that book arein Nepal, we'll print in Nepal, or if they're in India, we'll print in India and so on.
(06:26):
But the most important thing is the people who need it, that book is not restricted fromthem, no matter what the situation is.
So that's why we have this policy whereby anything that we produce, if it's within ourpower, you know, we will make it public domain.
We make it open access, which means we put the, we put all the money into the bookupfront.
(06:49):
we pay for a professional translator, editor, book designer, cover designer, haveeverything ready to print and the same print ready files that we use for printing.
We put, we make those available online.
them on our website and people access those files and download them throughout the world.
(07:10):
We don't know who's doing it.
But our hope is that the people who are using those files find them useful for educationand for learning more about the Christian faith wherever they are.
Yeah, that's awesome.
how did you, I know you were a missionary uh in Asia, in South Asia, Sri Lanka, and didwork in India.
(07:32):
uh but so you, must've had connections with some people then is that kind of how thisstarted?
Were you, so, so where did those, where did those connections start?
I know you mentioned Nepal.
Yeah, so basically after I finished working for the Synod for the LCMS as an LCMSmissionary, I continued to get requests, some from people I knew already, but then
(07:55):
increasingly from people I didn't know.
So I had a friend that...
uh who had a friend in Nepal, and he ultimately reached out to me and said, we need ateacher here, we need you to come and teach the small catechism.
Well, I get a lot of requests for teaching, but at that time, was kind of one of the firstrequests I received, so I went to Nepal in person and then realized that these people were
(08:22):
sincere.
They actually did want teaching, they weren't just interested in money, which sometimeshappens.
sure.
And so that's kind of begun a new relationship.
then in the years since then, several other groups in Nepal have kind of popped up andsaid, we also want some teaching.
(08:42):
So there was a seminarian in St.
Louis, called Nabin Samal, who's an LCMS seminarian.
He's a pastor now, but he also had contacts in Nepal where he grew up.
And he was a refugee, you know, from Bhutan and then came to the USA and he had, he wasone of the leaders in uh a Nepalese speaking congregation.
(09:08):
And so they were kind of renting or using the facility of a Lutheran church.
And then the pastor there, Michael Taney, kind of worked with them and taught themLuther's Catechism.
And they said, yeah, this is good.
We like this.
And so they became Lutheran.
and then two of their members.
That's a congregation in St.
(09:29):
Louis.
St.
Louis.
okay, it's a Nepalese congregation.
Okay, okay.
So anyway.
I uh somehow got connected with them and we provided them with catechisms in St.
Louis, uh illustrated small catechisms in Nepali.
uh So that's an example of how the work is not just abroad, it's also here in the USA.
(09:50):
Yeah.
And then so I said to him, look, do you ever go back to Nepal?
Like next time you go back, would you be interested in teaching the small catechism in thecommunities and the places where you know people and if they'd be interested in doing
that?
So he said, yes.
So he did that uh one year.
He was one of the people that we sponsored to go and teach in Nepal.
(10:10):
And then he went back again last year with Michael Taney, who had actually brought himinto the Lutheran Church.
And so that was great to see.
uh
get to see the report and the photos that they took but to see that they actually did makea number of contacts and they did a lot of teaching.
I was very pleased with the amount that they were able to get done in just a few weekswhile they were on that trip.
(10:33):
That's fantastic.
Well, know that, so I think that the chairman of oh of Psalm, South Asian Lutheran missionis a mutual friend of ours, Brian Flammey, right?
And uh last year uh in the spring, he and I both went abroad the same time.
(10:55):
I went to Africa for, to teach at, with, with, James May, Pastor James May, Lutherans inAfrica.
And then he went,
to, I think he went to like the Himalayan mountains and he was climbing.
Yeah, he said he was like on top of a mountain, like climbing the mountain and people livelike in the mountain.
(11:16):
he sent me a picture of himself teaching this group in this little kind of cave almostlook like, or this little room.
And he's teaching the Augsburg Confession to these people.
And so what's the story with that community?
Yeah, well, that's another community that was connected with the group that I had taughtin Nepal the first year.
(11:41):
But instead of going myself, I said, you know, would you accept another teacher?
He's a very good friend of mine.
You he works with me.
So, Brian volunteered to go the next year.
He's very, you very adventurous.
Yes, yes, he was a marine.
Yeah, he was on a motorcycle, he was riding a horse, was hiking like extreme mountainswhere, you know, normal people like you and me, we would need like an oxygen tank or
(12:08):
something like that.
Yeah, I know that's Brian and I were classmates.
We became good friends at Fort Wayne and uh he yeah, he was in the Marines and He he's thekind of guy who pushes it to the limit.
That's for sure So it's great to have guys like that.
Those are kind of missionaries.
(12:28):
Yeah Yeah uh
know the work kind of began by me personally receiving these requests from abroad.
Can you help publish this book?
Can you help, you know, come teach this?
But I mean, this is kind of why Psalm was founded.
So I wouldn't have to do it by myself.
So I could be accountable to a board and so they could give me advice and so that otherscould also take part in the work.
(12:52):
so, you know, Brian's gone to teach another board member, Vishal Kumar Paul is a LutheranChurch, Canada pastor.
He's going to teach in India.
And Bill Trafigan, he's the treasurer, right?
He's the master up in Minnesota.
Cause he had sent me, he sent me this really great resource that he was working on incompiling Lutheran hymnody.
(13:16):
And could you explain that project a little bit?
Yeah, one of our projects, which I hope will be done, you you always hope a project isgoing to be done sooner than it actually gets done.
Yeah.
But I mean, hopefully it could be done within another year or so is to put together apublic domain hymnal, which, you know, is in modern English.
know, TLH is a great hymnal, but that language is difficult for South Asians tounderstand.
(13:40):
Yeah.
So, uh
public domain, Lutheran liturgies and rites together with Lutheran hymns, which can beused anywhere in the world, you without having to ask for permissions to copy and
distribute and use and print.
That's fantastic.
uh One of the colics that we pray, and this is taken from, I think it's 2 Timothy, um witha colic of the church that says, know, grant to us thy Holy Spirit and the wisdom that
(14:13):
cometh down from above, that thy word as becometh it may not be bound by that free course.
And so that sounds like that's what's moving this mission here is.
the Word of God would not be bound by copyright, know, fear of copyright infringement andstuff like that.
So, well yeah, that's really fantastic stuff.
(14:35):
So then, um what are...
so you mentioned, is it Nabeel?
Yeah, yeah.
So he's been able to go back to Nepal and teach
Has there been a somewhat of a seedling development of a Lutheran church kind of beingorganized in Nepal?
(15:03):
The Lutheran Church in Nepal.
The LCMS is not in fellowship with them.
They had different missionary roots.
But I think what is more fascinating in Nepal is the huge explosion of evangelism andconversion to Christianity in traditionally 100 % Hindu villages, rural villages.
(15:25):
And so a lot of the churches in Nepal in these places did not exist 20, 30 years ago.
ask anyone, are you Christian?
And they say, yes.
Typically you can ask, OK, when did you convert to Christianity?
It was within his own lifetime.
And a lot of people have their own personal testimonies and stories about how when theyconverted to Christianity, they went through persecution, you know, their family kicked
(15:51):
them out.
They became a wanderer and they looked for another Christian community that might takethem in.
And then gradually, you know, they were allowed to go back and, maybe the sister convertedto Christianity then and then finally.
the parents.
So one pastor I stayed with in the Western Nepal in Bardiya, his parents were actually uhHindu and his father was a Hindu priest.
(16:14):
And so when he converted to Christianity, of course he was out.
But then eventually over time, as the gospel took root in that community and the HolySpirit did his work through the word, his parents also were converted to Christianity.
Praise be to God, that's incredible.
And so you had this congregation of a hundred people who gather there to worship and tohear the word of God.
(16:38):
none of them were Christian.
That church did not exist 30 years ago.
I mean, talk about the opportunity.
Because one of the challenges with when doing Lutheran missions is that often you havepeople who already have generations of baggage and certain views of what Christianity is
supposedly supposed to look like.
(17:02):
So maybe they're coming out of some kind of evangelical revivalistic kind of context orRoman Catholic, like where your parents are in the Dominican Republic and Latin America.
my brother David was there too and he says yeah I mean it's like a hybrid Catholic withother kinds of paganism and stuff but you're dealing with like fresh converts to
(17:27):
Christianity who are now when they converted how do you do you know like in this thisparticular community how they first converted was it through listening to like the radio
or something or
um Usually there is some story of an evangelist who they ran into and told the gospel, orthere's a story about a miracle that took place.
(17:50):
em
But yeah, uh there's always some influence of the evangelists or the denominationalbackground.
And so yeah, these people, uh a lot of these churches will have Pentecostal influence inthe way they worship.
But it's not necessarily intentional or, you know, as opposed to, you know, the Lutheranway of doing things in an orderly manner.
(18:14):
They just haven't been educated and instructed.
And so the level of biblical literacy in the first place is very low.
And that's what they're wanting.
They want education.
education not just for the people, also for the pastors.
They want to know about the history of the church.
They want to know about the Bible.
And so to produce even Sunday school materials or, know, catechism, all that's brand newfor them to have something structured which says this is the Christian faith as an
(18:42):
explanation as opposed to just, you know, a kind of a gospel summary.
that someone might give orally like your elevator speech over two minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah, or like a one night revival or something like that.
I mean, this is how Lutheran churches are formed too.
Yeah.
Is that people gradually they they are led along the path to understanding scripture moreand more until they realize, OK, I accept the small catechism.
(19:11):
Where do we go from here?
Now that I understand these teachings.
And so our next step for them was to introduce the Augsburg Confession.
And then, you know, the next step after that is to go through the worship and say, what isgoing on in your worship service?
Why when you pray, is everyone like Ulule?
and shouting out loud, know, and screaming.
(19:31):
And is that necessarily the way that scripture says we should be praying?
Is that the most beneficial for the orderly kind of worship that is pleasing to God?
You might read in 1 Corinthians.
Yeah, chapter 14.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's really great.
So, you you're starting with just giving them that foundation of Scripture.
(19:51):
And there are, mean, there are two ways you can do mission work.
can say, I'm only going to work with Lutherans.
I'm only going to work with people I already agree with.
And we have this broad consensus on as much as possible, which means I'm only going towork with people we're already in full altar and pulpit fellowship.
You can say, I'm going to work with these people as long as they are still eager andhungry for the word of God.
(20:14):
And they want to learn.
um
And there can be a place and a rhyme and reason for working with uh a church body that ismaybe new, needs support, and helping them do the mission work that God has called them to
do in their place and being a support for them.
(20:35):
um But then there's also, there's room for the...
the forging of these new grounds and going to those places that others otherwise wouldn'tgo to.
So, ah you know, there are many different uh contexts, I suppose, uh that we could talkabout that where the Word of God needs to be a light.
(21:00):
people who are in total darkness, those who are just kind of newbies and those who maybejust need some encouragement and some structure for themselves.
that's very much the way I see the mission is that we are supporting these Nepalesepastors and the people to build up their church and to help them grow as Christians and to
(21:22):
continue to do the work that they're already doing way better than we do in the USA interms of spreading the message.
I mean, you're I mean, that is if you're just looking at the conversion rate that
The message of the gospel that the people converting to Christianity and saying, yes, Iwant to give up my uh subservience to these witches and these idols and these demon
(21:47):
spirits which terrify us.
And we want Jesus Christ to be our God and our protector.
Yeah, yeah, my grandpa uh told this story about this guy here.
Could you get me a Bible?
It's right there.
I got to find which uh there is this guy he went to.
My grandpa would attend these evangelism, these evangelism, you know, workshops orconferences and conventions.
(22:16):
And he was he was telling about this this story.
uh
He told this story about this guy who came up and, you know, he was from some pagan place,like where they were, he was from a tribe that was like almost even like cannibal or
(22:39):
something like that, like really savage tribe where they would kill people and just theywere really...
uh beyond, you know, not civilized.
And he, what had happened was, some missionaries went to this, to this remote tribe andtried to spread the gospel and they were just killed.
(23:00):
And then um some, some of the women from that tribe got, somehow got in contact with someother women who were Christians who explained the gospel to them.
And then they went back.
and told the tribe about the gospel, then they became more, they became more open to hearabout it.
And then some other missionaries came in and explained the gospel to them and they likeall converted.
(23:24):
And, and this guy, I can't remember his name, uh but uh this, this guy was asked like,what is your favorite Bible verse?
And, uh and he,
And he said, let's see, I think it was in Mark.
ah It must have been.
(23:51):
So I think it was, was it Mark eight?
Let's see where he were the where Jesus cast out a demon or maybe it was Mark nine.
ah No, it must have been Mark nine because I think it was right after the transfiguration.
Um, where, let's see, I'm going to try to find it here.
(24:15):
Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
So, so Mark nine, let me just read the in context.
And one of the crowd answered him, teacher, I brought my son to you for he has a dumbspirit.
And wherever it sees us him, dashes him down and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomesrigid.
And I asked your disciples to cast it out and they were not able.
(24:37):
And he answered them, faithless generation, how long am I to be with you?
How long am I to bear with you?
Bring him to me.
And they brought the boy to him.
when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy and he fell on the ground androlled about foaming at the mouth.
And Jesus asked the father, how long has he had this?
And he said from childhood, and it has often cast him into the fire and into the water todestroy him.
(25:01):
But if you can do anything, have pity on us and help us.
And Jesus said to him, if you can, all things are possible with
to him who believes.
And immediately the father of the child cried out and said, I believe, help my unbelief.
And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spiritsaying to it, you dumb and deaf spirit, I command you come out of him and never enter him
(25:26):
again.
And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out and the boy was like acorpse so that most of them said he is dead.
But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up and he rose.
So in that passage that I just read from that story that I just read from Mark chapter 9,which of those verses, one of those verses was this guy's favorite Bible verse?
(26:01):
And which one would you guess it would be?
Lord, I believe how my humble
what you would think, right?
I mean, that would be one of my favorite parts of it because, you know, we struggle with aweak faith and help by unbelief.
That's probably one of most memorable ones.
But this is the one, this is his favorite when they asked him, what is your favorite versein the whole Bible?
(26:23):
He said, Mark chapter 9 verse 25.
And this is what it says.
And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit,saying to it, you dumb and deaf spirit, I command you come out of him and never enter him
again.
And that was his favorite Bible verse because he knew what it was like to be under demonicforces, to be in total darkness.
(26:49):
um And that promise, that command of Christ, never enter him again.
was something that this guy took great comfort in.
And it's something that we perhaps don't really consider that.
How deeply dark and miserable the state of unbelief is to be without the grace and favorof God in the gospel.
(27:23):
And this guy...
He knows that.
He knows what that's like.
And he knows what it's like to be rescued from that.
And he takes great comfort in the promise of Christ that he would not let anyone snatchhim out of his hands.
Yeah, well, we kind of from from our experience of American culture, we kind of assumethat the rest of the world is very similar, you know, in our culture, our culture, we.
(27:50):
Yeah, in America.
um I'm uh Edward Nauman from Chicago.
I mean, England is the same in this way though.
Yeah, of course, in Western culture.
the Screwtape letters where the devil, you this is his strategy to really persuade peopleeveryone can be a materialist, you know, not really believing in the devil and he can just
stay hidden.
(28:11):
And that's where we think the rest of the world is.
But where you do have uh
you know, this this demonic grip on on communities and very active witches and and demonicactivity, you know, plaguing people in these kinds of ways, then people are aware of it
and they know it.
And and so part of the deliverance of Jesus Christ of people from their false gods andtheir false religions and these demons is, you know, involves exorcism.
(28:40):
And people experience not only exorcism, but they've also experienced the return of demonsto those
people who have been exorcised in the past.
And so they're off, which is what Jesus also.
Yeah, which is what Jesus also warns of in Luke chapter 11, that they bring seven moreevil spirits.
So they're interested not just in being rid of these demons, they're interested in howJesus can protect them from their return.
(29:07):
And that's why baptism becomes so important with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and thecleansing, not just the cleansing of the house, but that it should be occupied.
Yeah, it should be occupied.
Yeah, that's really amazing.
And it should be an encouragement to us to consider that we are in, even if we might benumbed by the...
(29:31):
I mean, that's kind of the cross that we have to bear is the constant numbing effect ofmaterialism against our faith.
um
you know, not to say, yeah, I'm not saying like, yeah, it's such a cross that we have allthis stuff, don't know what to do with it.
It's like, it's just having to deal with all this money.
(29:54):
But, but to be, to be true though, there, to be serious though, there, there is a crossthat we in the West have to bear, which is the resisting, having to resist the temptation.
that materialism does bring and the sleepiness that it brings to stay awake.
And these, hearing these accounts of these Christians, these brothers and sisters aroundthe world who are resisting the devil, um should give us a shot in the arm to humble
(30:24):
ourselves under God's mighty hand and cast our cares upon Him and to seek the peace ofIsrael, of the Israel of God, of His holy Church throughout the world.
Yeah, well maybe that's part of the reason you see such a high conversion rate there wherethey really see the reality of the spiritual warfare that's going on between these created
(30:47):
spirits, these unclean spirits and the creator who is the only one who has the power todrive them out.
But you know that materialism that we experience, that temptation to become obsessed onlywith worldly things, I mean that's there too.
Sure, yeah.
People are always, you in any culture, gonna be attracted to wealth and putting theirtrust in money and desiring, you know, in an avaricious way to heap up more.
(31:13):
Well, like you were saying, often when you when you get requests, it turns out that theyjust want money.
Yeah.
mean, that happens.
And you have to be careful.
But even if the people are sincere in their Christianity, often it's the case that theyare poor and they need money.
You have to be very careful, even because we have a lot.
(31:37):
in a sense it is our moral obligation to do what we can out of charity to help those whoare in need.
At the same time, you have to be super careful not to build any kind of relationship ofdependency.
Because that will destroy the mission.
And then you become, know, what are you then?
You're kind of the pot of gold, the golden goose, or however you want to describe it.
(32:04):
Yeah
you know, you're introducing a false God.
Yeah.
And that's not helpful to the church.
That's not helpful to their mission.
You know, be better than for them to be worshipping on the in a church on a dirt floor,you know, in a grass hut than to have this great emphasis that you've helped to build and
then provide all kinds of money.
Because what you want is a continuation of that sincerity of faith and that continuationof of their desire to to go after what matters the most.
(32:33):
Sitting at the feet of Jesus.
and hearing his word and learning from him.
So this can be an unintended uh yet catastrophic effect of short-term mission trips whenyou go and em like build a church for someone, em but then it can inadvertently lead to a
(32:55):
kind of dependency.
Not to say that don't go and help them build a church.
don't know if short-term mission trips end up that way necessarily.
oh if you're, I mean, what you want to do in a mission is you want to build thatrelationship whereby the trust increases and they get to know you better, they get to know
what you're teaching and how you're founding those teachings on the Word of God.
(33:19):
they know you as a person too, they know if they can trust you and you build up a kind ofhistory of that relationship of trust.
And relationships are important because everyone who calls themselves Christian will say,can trust me, but you only kind of know that more certainly about a person in the more
(33:41):
experience and history.
have with them.
Well, that's interesting.
So when we were in the library today, your son, Charlie, came to me and asked me if thelibrary had a copy of the Didache, the teaching of the 12 apostles, what first or early
second century document.
(34:02):
And what's interesting about that document is it's not really a catechism in the way thatwe would think of one.
It's more of a manual of how to
operate as a Christian community.
And, you know, like there's a way of life, a way of death.
But one of the things it has in there is warning people about what to do with prophetswhen you encounter prophets.
(34:28):
which we know in the infancy of the New Testament church, you did have prophets, but thenyou had false prophets.
And we have these warnings like in 1 John to test the spirits to see if they're from God.
um And Paul's saying, don't despise prophecy, but test all things and hold fast to what istrue.
um And so it's interesting how they would say, like, if they go in a trance, then in theirtrance, they ask for food or money, then they're false prophets.
(34:55):
Like, there's like these ways to kind of discern whether
So they obviously had to deal with the really the same kinds of things that say they hadthis they still had to practice that very careful discernment of uh not of building
true godly relationships based on the word of God and the common confession, while notslipping into this kind of charlatan feeding sort of frenzy, uh or dependency, as you put
(35:28):
it.
Because that is a recipe for just idolatry, and then they become these just rank hereticalcommunities.
uh As we
as we see, you know, in our, in our country, but also in other countries where, like whenI came, when I came to Africa, I was complaining because I had jet lag and I couldn't
(35:50):
sleep.
And then there was this dog barking and I was so mad at that dog.
And I came down stairs after that.
Well, the next day I was complaining to, to James and Tina about this dog.
And they were like, yeah, that dog is just kind of showed up.
And but then they said, well, at least you guys weren't in like the night before, becausethere was this Pentecostal church with their big loudspeakers and they had to call the
(36:19):
police on them.
And they were they were going like way into the night, just doing all sorts of craziness.
And so, I mean, that stuff is happening.
um
And it's all like, you know, health and wealth kind of gospel.
uh And, know, you get this kind of liberation theology, this prosperity theology that verymuch takes root in these impoverished, maybe non-Western, uh underdeveloped countries.
(36:49):
So, uh but anyway, yeah, so.
It's going to be a temptation anywhere you go.
it's a temptation for them the same way it's a temptation for us.
Yeah.
Well, because we have the same.
running a mission, you know, I can, I can generate all kinds of profit and make thisprofit for me.
You know, I mean that we see the same temptations in our church.
(37:10):
mean, if you're running a publishing house, you you set the price on those books.
So although we make them freely available online for you, for anyone to download and read,uh, so that they're more so that if anyone wants to buy a print copy of a book, we also
make them available in print and there's global distribution and we set the
(37:31):
price.
So I could say, we can make a ton of money here, you know, on the selling of books,because we sell, I don't know, like 1000 books a year.
And, and that could be, you know, an additional revenue source.
And instead, what we do is I set it to one cent uh over the, um you know, printing cost.
(37:57):
So if anyone returns a book, we also have to pay for that, you know, because it getsdestroyed.
But anyway, so we don't make profit from the sale of books.
And instead, the income uh which we use to pay for the translation, the editing, for thedesign, all that comes from people just donating to the general fund of the South Asia
(38:21):
Lutheran mission.
Yeah, that's, it does.
Because we have all the money we need for all the projects.
I have more money for projects now than I ever had as a missionary for the Synod.
So we're able to do twice the amount of work.
And it's great to see it's basically unrestricted.
(38:41):
mean, even if we have a project that needs to be approved between board meetings, we canjust take a vote on it by...
by text message or by email.
And as long as we get enough directors to approve the project, if it's something urgentthat needs to be approved between meetings, then we can get that done straight away,
funded straight away and get it done.
(39:03):
And I think that's the joy of working with a small group of dedicated pastors and a teamof volunteers in this country, in Canada and abroad, is that everyone's really on the same
page.
There's a lot of cooperation and just a lot of joy in
getting these resources out there and getting the teachers there and receiving thisfeedback from the people who receive the teaching, which is we want you to come again next
(39:31):
year.
And the biggest problem is getting the teachers and supplying the needs of people who arehappy with what we are supplying them with.
And they're happy with the supplies and they're happy with the teaching.
Yeah.
So what do you do with, so you said there's a church in Nepal that there's staff, othergroups in Nepal.
(40:00):
Are any of them in fellowship with the Missouri Synod?
No.
None of them are, okay.
But then there's this other group that's kind of, I suppose, its own thing and they'rejust learning from the resources you guys are providing.
And so they're growing and they're understanding.
what would be, have you thought that far ahead?
Like what would be the next step as far as if they wanted to have kind of a fellowship andmaybe they wanted some help and support?
(40:24):
that's the goal, ultimately, is to bring them to such a place.
I mean, we can take them as long as they are willing to go with us, right?
But we are Lutherans and we teach them.
mean, these are the Lutheran confessions and this is the way we do the liturgy becausethis is how we understand Scripture.
It's not like this is the Lutheran way because we're Lutheran.
It's like this is what Scripture says we should do and what we should believe.
(40:50):
This is the Gospel as it is described by Jesus.
And so we will take them, know, as long as they still want to learn, we will continue toteach them until, yeah, eventually, if they continue to learn and they continue to say,
keep coming back, they're at a point where they'll have the Lutheran doctrine and theLutheran practice and all the requirements are fulfilled.
(41:12):
You know, if you were to look at the kind of colloquy program or something like that, orthe requirements for
or like membership in like the ILC or something.
things that the Missouri Synod would be looking for for declaring fellowship, all of thatultimately would come into place without the Synod having to lift a finger.
Just hand it to them and say, here's where we are.
(41:36):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, that's really great.
So the main one is in Nepal, but then you have, are there any other communities that havebeen kind of popping up that you're at these kind of early stages with?
Yeah, there are a couple of communities in India.
Like I said, we sent one of the directors to India and he led uh a teaching session on thesmall catechism there and they're eager to have him back.
(42:00):
There's another one in India where we haven't been before and they're requesting a teacherrepeatedly.
And these are people who weren't Lutheran.
Well, they may even say we're Lutheran.
Yeah.
They don't know much about what that means.
So we're Lutheran, but yeah, we just we would like you to teach the small catechism.
Well, I mean, how Lutheran can you be without reading the small catechism?
(42:23):
exactly.
that's, I mean, I know that this is a case that I've talked with Pastor May about thathe'll meet people who are, they'll say, we're confessional Lutherans, which means that
they don't want women pastors.
And, know, he'll run across people who are like confessional Lutherans.
(42:44):
And then when he actually talks to them, like, they don't know the confessions, you know,and so the goal then is to actually teach them the confessions.
they can really be confessional Lutherans.
yeah, yeah, no, but I mean, that's just, that's part of the task though.
That's the work of the mission.
And I like how you put that, that is, we're not Lutheran just because we're Lutheran.
(43:07):
Like, no, this is how Jesus teaches the gospel.
This is how He has given us the gospel through His apostles and prophets.
um So yeah, well, great.
Well, where can people find you and learn more about your mission of songwriting?
so we have a website and that's SouthAsiaLutheranMission.com and if you look that up onFacebook, there's also Facebook.
(43:36):
Yeah, what's that?
Where all the college kids go and say what they're doing.
Yeah, mean, to be honest, we're not like very public with everything.
And that's for a couple of reasons.
First, there is some danger in a couple of the places where we operate.
(43:56):
So I don't like to put a lot of pictures and a lot of updates about the kinds ofactivities we're doing in those areas where the Christian teachers may be endangered or
may not be.
I mean, one teacher's son went missing and he was never found last year.
my goodness.
So, I mean, this is serious.
There is danger and I don't want to be the one to put anyone in danger for the sake offundraising.
(44:23):
That's one reason I don't put regular updates about everything we're doing.
And some people, you if they're looking at what we're doing, they try and get it in theway of the mission and try and stop it.
I...
you know, how would that benefit anyone?
God will provide, you know, the necessary funds for anything.
You we've never had not enough funds to do a project that we had the opportunity to do.
(44:50):
And the other reason is, you know, who wants to read a newsletter every month anyway?
mean, there's already enough stuff.
Or every week?
No, I was just kidding.
Subscribe to Christian News.
Well, I...
(45:16):
And is often slow business.
Still working on this commentary.
Still working on this translation.
Still editing that.
there aren't, in some ways there are just less updates than, I mean, you can always tellstories and...
you know, introduce characters and give profiles of people you're working with and so on.
(45:37):
Yeah.
But I also don't want to fall into the trap of doing mission work so that I can have astory to tell.
And so I can brag about it, like either me fall into that trap or like the nonprofitgroup.
me stop you right there and let me tell you about our Camp Trendy Academy and how this isgrowing and like all the great things that we've been able to do.
(46:01):
We got how many kids came this year?
percentage growth year on year.
No, no, I hear what you're saying and I commend you for that.
And that shows a lot of wisdom and care for the mission and humility, you know, to say, weare unworthy servants, we have only done our duty um to entrust this all to Christ.
(46:25):
And I think that those words are encouraging to pastors and missionaries and anyone who isinvolved in the work of the Church.
with honest hearts, you know, that we know that the fruit, don't get to see all the fruitat once.
You what did Jesus say to his apostles?
(46:47):
He says, you're going to reap what other people sowed.
And we're reaping what they sowed.
And uh we look to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come whenChrist, who is our life, will appear and all of the fruit will appear with Him as we are
with Him in glory.
That's our hope.
(47:07):
uh But there's another element to this as well, that people who...
I know that some of the stuff that you've published, it's not just people internationallyor, you know, uh of Asian descent and Asian communities who benefit from this, but there
(47:29):
even our own pastors who have benefited from these uh publications.
So could you talk about maybe one or two that you've published that have been helpful toour own people?
Yeah, well, the one that comes to mind is your brother's book.
know, Stephen Preuss wrote a great little book on how to preach for a funeral.
(47:50):
And that came out of a conference paper that he had given, which I heard.
I thought that was, you know, I don't know of another book like this.
And this is greatly needed.
You know, this is different from what I learned at seminary.
And this is actually what needs to be heard by pastors, because this comes from a pastor'sexperience and, um you know,
(48:11):
good sound theology.
And so, yeah, we produced this, How to Preach for a Funeral, and it's in English.
But then we have translated to other languages.
And I think it's going to be useful in a number of other languages.
But English books, you know, I don't know how many hundreds of those copies of thatparticular book have been printed and distributed in the USA.
(48:36):
I would think it's about 500 at the moment.
But English as a language is also a South Asian language.
And we should know that because more people in South Asia speak English than in the USA.
Maybe not as a first language, but as a second language, they speak and they canunderstand English.
(49:00):
And a lot of people prefer to read in English than their native tongue.
And that's often because the English alphabet is more frequently used and so it's easierfor them to read the alphabet.
But for that...
said, okay, so I got a story real quick, the English alphabet.
So it's the, what, the Roman alphabet, technically.
(49:21):
So I remember when I was in seminary at St.
Catharines, Ontario, and I'm an American going to this Canadian seminary.
and they, they, we had a convocation with a guy from Lutheran Bible translators came andwas talking about the, you know, that their work with translating the Bible and in all
these different languages.
(49:41):
And I asked like, well, what about, you know, they said how the
they need to develop a, they need to actually develop an alphabet for them often becausethey don't really have one.
And so I raised my hand, I asked, so I mean, how do you determine what the alphabet is?
you just use, do you just, do you come up with an alphabet or?
(50:03):
Is there some kind of alphabet they already have or do you, do you just use the Americanalphabet?
And then once I said that, Dr.
Winger was like the American alphabet.
So anyway, but you said English alphabet.
So, but yeah, sorry.
Go, go ahead.
They need resources in English.
(50:24):
Yeah, yeah, no, makes sense.
not just in South Asia.
Yeah, that's the case in Africa.
uh
And, but most of the really great uh English language resources are under copyright.
And you cannot just take it and then copy it and print it in South Asia.
(50:45):
And that's a huge problem for us.
I mean, a lot of the resources we're producing now, it wouldn't be necessary for us toproduce them.
if the copyright restrictions were not in place.
So in other words, if we had the license to publish internationally without restrictions,then we could print those, distribute them, we could translate them into other languages
(51:07):
without restriction.
But there are some English language resources.
So I just found recently a great set of English language Sunday school curriculum atdifferent age levels, which is produced by...
The Church of the Lutheran Confession.
Actually, yeah.
(51:28):
it has references to the Lutheran hymnal and the material is awesome as far as I haven'tread every single page in it to do a...
It's great because it follows, it's all like church history.
It's not just these kind of clumps of like, of just Bible stories that don't really fittogether.
It follows the whole church history.
(51:49):
And yeah, we've been using that at Trinity here, along with the Concordia Bible history.
then, yeah, it's a great resource.
And so I called up the director on the phone too and I shocked he actually picked up thephone.
His name was Pastor David Nauman.
It probably distantly related.
uh
like distant cousins.
(52:10):
And so he said, yeah, you can take that material and you can print it, do what you likewith it.
And I was shocked to find someone who actually had the same mission philosophy that wedid.
But to me, it's just basic.
mean, these are resources that the church produced to be used by the church.
(52:31):
And so to me, that's a no brainer.
mean, yeah.
That's, yeah.
Yeah.
So, that book, Preaching How to Preach at a Funeral, yeah, that is a really good resource.
That's really helpful.
I should have Stephen on next time he comes and visits me, we can talk about that.
But yeah, any other publications that...
(52:56):
Well, I might be wondering like, can we do all this work?
How can we print and distribute books?
And, uh, and the way we are able to do it is we don't run a bookshop.
So, uh, we, we use a distributor called IngramSpark and they do the printing and, thenthe, sellers like amazon.com, Barnes and Nobles, they will purchase from the distributor,
(53:24):
from the printer.
at a discount price and then they will sell it on their website.
So that's why you can find our books on amazon.com and other booksellers because they canget them and so they can still make a profit.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, that's great.
So someone can go on uh South Asia Lutheran mission.com
(53:48):
France, could be in England, you could be in India and go on Amazon.in and find thesebooks and order them.
great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh so if anyone is interested in that, uh it would be uh well worth your time to checkthat out.
And uh we'll continue to, to wish you well and, and pray for the success of, of God'smission through, through the stewardship that He's given you.
(54:19):
And uh Reverend Dr.
Edward Nauman, thanks for coming on.
this episode today.
Sure.
I appreciate it.
My pleasure.
Yeah.
So I'll see you around.
You've been listening to Christendom in the World brought to you by Christian News.
Please like and subscribe and share this content if you are enjoying it.
We'll see you next time on another episode of Christendom in the World.
All right.
So on Christendom in the world today, we sit down with Reverend Dr.
Edward Nauman, pastor of what?
St.
Paul and Brookfield, Chicago area.
ah So we're here for this, this Camp Trinity Academy event.
ah So I suppose before we talk about what we were going to talk about, how do you like inCamp Trinity Academy?
(00:30):
Yeah, it's great.
Yeah, great lectures, great people here.
They're all having a lot of fun.
Since I'm tired of hearing myself explain what it is, could you explain what it is?
Yeah, so it's a camp for boys who are thinking about becoming pastors or in that processof discerning, whether that's something they want to consider.
(00:52):
And they sit down with local pastors and uh they learn about theology or church history,dogmatics.
And then we have fireside chats and there's library time to pick up and choose a kind ofbook on theology in your area of interest.
uh
Then there's free time and pool time when you can go canoeing or fishing and kids have alot of fun.
(01:18):
I think it's a lot more freedom than your average uh heavily structured camp.
Kids are told where to be and when at all times.
I think it's because it's just run by dads, pastors who are dads.
And we're just like, what?
You want to go fishing at uh midnight?
Yeah, OK, just don't get bit by a snake.
(01:42):
Yes, yes, yes, of course.
course.
Kids are safe.
Yeah, they're fine.
Yeah, think.
Yeah, sure.
So there was.
uh So Hannah, I don't know if you heard about this, but there was a uh
Your mom came up to me and said, hey, Pastor, uh there's these parents of this boy.
I won't mention his name, some boy and his dad wanted you to call him to make sure thatyou knew to contact both him and his mom or something like that.
(02:13):
And I saw the name and I was like, his first name was Wesley.
And I was like, uh I don't.
think there is a Wesley here.
So then Pastor Nauman just shouts out to the kids like, hey, kids, is there a Wesleyaround here in your cabin?
(02:34):
Do you know a Wesley?
And they're just like, no.
Like, yeah, I don't think there's a Wesley.
And it turned out that he just thought he had the wrong camp.
So we were just like, oh, not really like pretty sure, but not.
100 % sure that there wasn't a kid named by that name here.
(02:55):
So anyway, no, it's been, uh it is a lot of fun, a lot of free time.
And that's kind of the idea too, is that we want them to be able to, part of the idea ofthis is for them to have uh be driven, have some mentorship, but also be kind of
self-driven.
(03:18):
in a way motivated to pursue what they're interested in.
You know, that's why we give them books that we try to match what
what interests them, they fill out in their registration packet what part of theologythey're interested in, what theological topics they're interested in.
So we go to the library and we get a book form and say, hey, this might actually beinteresting to you.
(03:40):
And sometimes, you know, they might read a little bit of it and they kind of put it down,but at least we're giving them some kind of exposure so that they can pursue and discern
uh what they might.
do with their lives and maybe they want to be pastors or at least be good fathers in theirhomes, which is really the most important thing uh that our church desperately needs in
(04:05):
this day.
So anyway, so thanks Dr.
Naumann for your services here.
I couldn't run this camp without you and the other help.
uh Anyway, so I thought since you're here, I'd have you on and
we would talk about witchcraft.
(04:26):
uh Just kidding.
He's reading a book about witchcraft and he said he didn't want to talk about that.
ah But no, no, What I wanted to talk about was your mission work that you do.
You serve a local parish, but you also have a mission society called uh South AsiaLutheran Mission.
(04:47):
And mainly what you do is you publish material
And but you have an interesting way in which you're able to do it in a very uh inexpensiveway and allow good theology to be distributed around the world uh very efficiently.
(05:08):
And could you explain what you do with South Asia Lutheran mission?
Yeah, well, essentially we focus on educational needs of South Asia or South Asiancommunities, which doesn't necessarily, isn't necessarily limited to South Asia
regionally.
(05:29):
So you have South Asian communities throughout the world, including the USA and Canada.
And we...
send teachers where we get requests for teachers to come and teach the small catechism oronce the small catechism is taught come like take us further so we send someone to teach
the Augsburg Confession or then liturgy or some other topic.
(05:53):
So teaching is half of the work really and then the other half is publications and thepublications uh you know it takes a long time to produce a publication
But we want these publications to be able to be used by whoever needs them.
So we will print not in the USA, but locally, if the people who need to use that book arein Nepal, we'll print in Nepal, or if they're in India, we'll print in India and so on.
(06:26):
But the most important thing is the people who need it, that book is not restricted fromthem, no matter what the situation is.
So that's why we have this policy whereby anything that we produce, if it's within ourpower, you know, we will make it public domain.
We make it open access, which means we put the, we put all the money into the bookupfront.
(06:49):
we pay for a professional translator, editor, book designer, cover designer, haveeverything ready to print and the same print ready files that we use for printing.
We put, we make those available online.
them on our website and people access those files and download them throughout the world.
(07:10):
We don't know who's doing it.
But our hope is that the people who are using those files find them useful for educationand for learning more about the Christian faith wherever they are.
Yeah, that's awesome.
how did you, I know you were a missionary uh in Asia, in South Asia, Sri Lanka, and didwork in India.
(07:32):
uh but so you, must've had connections with some people then is that kind of how thisstarted?
Were you, so, so where did those, where did those connections start?
I know you mentioned Nepal.
Yeah, so basically after I finished working for the Synod for the LCMS as an LCMSmissionary, I continued to get requests, some from people I knew already, but then
(07:55):
increasingly from people I didn't know.
So I had a friend that...
uh who had a friend in Nepal, and he ultimately reached out to me and said, we need ateacher here, we need you to come and teach the small catechism.
Well, I get a lot of requests for teaching, but at that time, was kind of one of the firstrequests I received, so I went to Nepal in person and then realized that these people were
(08:22):
sincere.
They actually did want teaching, they weren't just interested in money, which sometimeshappens.
sure.
And so that's kind of begun a new relationship.
then in the years since then, several other groups in Nepal have kind of popped up andsaid, we also want some teaching.
(08:42):
So there was a seminarian in St.
Louis, called Nabin Samal, who's an LCMS seminarian.
He's a pastor now, but he also had contacts in Nepal where he grew up.
And he was a refugee, you know, from Bhutan and then came to the USA and he had, he wasone of the leaders in uh a Nepalese speaking congregation.
(09:08):
And so they were kind of renting or using the facility of a Lutheran church.
And then the pastor there, Michael Taney, kind of worked with them and taught themLuther's Catechism.
And they said, yeah, this is good.
We like this.
And so they became Lutheran.
and then two of their members.
That's a congregation in St.
(09:29):
Louis.
St.
Louis.
okay, it's a Nepalese congregation.
Okay, okay.
So anyway.
I uh somehow got connected with them and we provided them with catechisms in St.
Louis, uh illustrated small catechisms in Nepali.
uh So that's an example of how the work is not just abroad, it's also here in the USA.
(09:50):
Yeah.
And then so I said to him, look, do you ever go back to Nepal?
Like next time you go back, would you be interested in teaching the small catechism in thecommunities and the places where you know people and if they'd be interested in doing
that?
So he said, yes.
So he did that uh one year.
He was one of the people that we sponsored to go and teach in Nepal.
(10:10):
And then he went back again last year with Michael Taney, who had actually brought himinto the Lutheran Church.
And so that was great to see.
uh
get to see the report and the photos that they took but to see that they actually did makea number of contacts and they did a lot of teaching.
I was very pleased with the amount that they were able to get done in just a few weekswhile they were on that trip.
(10:33):
That's fantastic.
Well, know that, so I think that the chairman of oh of Psalm, South Asian Lutheran missionis a mutual friend of ours, Brian Flammey, right?
And uh last year uh in the spring, he and I both went abroad the same time.
(10:55):
I went to Africa for, to teach at, with, with, James May, Pastor James May, Lutherans inAfrica.
And then he went,
to, I think he went to like the Himalayan mountains and he was climbing.
Yeah, he said he was like on top of a mountain, like climbing the mountain and people livelike in the mountain.
(11:16):
he sent me a picture of himself teaching this group in this little kind of cave almostlook like, or this little room.
And he's teaching the Augsburg Confession to these people.
And so what's the story with that community?
Yeah, well, that's another community that was connected with the group that I had taughtin Nepal the first year.
(11:41):
But instead of going myself, I said, you know, would you accept another teacher?
He's a very good friend of mine.
You he works with me.
So, Brian volunteered to go the next year.
He's very, you very adventurous.
Yes, yes, he was a marine.
Yeah, he was on a motorcycle, he was riding a horse, was hiking like extreme mountainswhere, you know, normal people like you and me, we would need like an oxygen tank or
(12:08):
something like that.
Yeah, I know that's Brian and I were classmates.
We became good friends at Fort Wayne and uh he yeah, he was in the Marines and He he's thekind of guy who pushes it to the limit.
That's for sure So it's great to have guys like that.
Those are kind of missionaries.
(12:28):
Yeah Yeah uh
know the work kind of began by me personally receiving these requests from abroad.
Can you help publish this book?
Can you help, you know, come teach this?
But I mean, this is kind of why Psalm was founded.
So I wouldn't have to do it by myself.
So I could be accountable to a board and so they could give me advice and so that otherscould also take part in the work.
(12:52):
so, you know, Brian's gone to teach another board member, Vishal Kumar Paul is a LutheranChurch, Canada pastor.
He's going to teach in India.
And Bill Trafigan, he's the treasurer, right?
He's the master up in Minnesota.
Cause he had sent me, he sent me this really great resource that he was working on incompiling Lutheran hymnody.
(13:16):
And could you explain that project a little bit?
Yeah, one of our projects, which I hope will be done, you you always hope a project isgoing to be done sooner than it actually gets done.
Yeah.
But I mean, hopefully it could be done within another year or so is to put together apublic domain hymnal, which, you know, is in modern English.
know, TLH is a great hymnal, but that language is difficult for South Asians tounderstand.
(13:40):
Yeah.
So, uh
public domain, Lutheran liturgies and rites together with Lutheran hymns, which can beused anywhere in the world, you without having to ask for permissions to copy and
distribute and use and print.
That's fantastic.
uh One of the colics that we pray, and this is taken from, I think it's 2 Timothy, um witha colic of the church that says, know, grant to us thy Holy Spirit and the wisdom that
(14:13):
cometh down from above, that thy word as becometh it may not be bound by that free course.
And so that sounds like that's what's moving this mission here is.
the Word of God would not be bound by copyright, know, fear of copyright infringement andstuff like that.
So, well yeah, that's really fantastic stuff.
(14:35):
So then, um what are...
so you mentioned, is it Nabeel?
Yeah, yeah.
So he's been able to go back to Nepal and teach
Has there been a somewhat of a seedling development of a Lutheran church kind of beingorganized in Nepal?
(15:03):
The Lutheran Church in Nepal.
The LCMS is not in fellowship with them.
They had different missionary roots.
But I think what is more fascinating in Nepal is the huge explosion of evangelism andconversion to Christianity in traditionally 100 % Hindu villages, rural villages.
(15:25):
And so a lot of the churches in Nepal in these places did not exist 20, 30 years ago.
ask anyone, are you Christian?
And they say, yes.
Typically you can ask, OK, when did you convert to Christianity?
It was within his own lifetime.
And a lot of people have their own personal testimonies and stories about how when theyconverted to Christianity, they went through persecution, you know, their family kicked
(15:51):
them out.
They became a wanderer and they looked for another Christian community that might takethem in.
And then gradually, you know, they were allowed to go back and, maybe the sister convertedto Christianity then and then finally.
the parents.
So one pastor I stayed with in the Western Nepal in Bardiya, his parents were actually uhHindu and his father was a Hindu priest.
(16:14):
And so when he converted to Christianity, of course he was out.
But then eventually over time, as the gospel took root in that community and the HolySpirit did his work through the word, his parents also were converted to Christianity.
Praise be to God, that's incredible.
And so you had this congregation of a hundred people who gather there to worship and tohear the word of God.
(16:38):
none of them were Christian.
That church did not exist 30 years ago.
I mean, talk about the opportunity.
Because one of the challenges with when doing Lutheran missions is that often you havepeople who already have generations of baggage and certain views of what Christianity is
supposedly supposed to look like.
(17:02):
So maybe they're coming out of some kind of evangelical revivalistic kind of context orRoman Catholic, like where your parents are in the Dominican Republic and Latin America.
my brother David was there too and he says yeah I mean it's like a hybrid Catholic withother kinds of paganism and stuff but you're dealing with like fresh converts to
(17:27):
Christianity who are now when they converted how do you do you know like in this thisparticular community how they first converted was it through listening to like the radio
or something or
um Usually there is some story of an evangelist who they ran into and told the gospel, orthere's a story about a miracle that took place.
(17:50):
em
But yeah, uh there's always some influence of the evangelists or the denominationalbackground.
And so yeah, these people, uh a lot of these churches will have Pentecostal influence inthe way they worship.
But it's not necessarily intentional or, you know, as opposed to, you know, the Lutheranway of doing things in an orderly manner.
(18:14):
They just haven't been educated and instructed.
And so the level of biblical literacy in the first place is very low.
And that's what they're wanting.
They want education.
education not just for the people, also for the pastors.
They want to know about the history of the church.
They want to know about the Bible.
And so to produce even Sunday school materials or, know, catechism, all that's brand newfor them to have something structured which says this is the Christian faith as an
(18:42):
explanation as opposed to just, you know, a kind of a gospel summary.
that someone might give orally like your elevator speech over two minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah, or like a one night revival or something like that.
I mean, this is how Lutheran churches are formed too.
Yeah.
Is that people gradually they they are led along the path to understanding scripture moreand more until they realize, OK, I accept the small catechism.
(19:11):
Where do we go from here?
Now that I understand these teachings.
And so our next step for them was to introduce the Augsburg Confession.
And then, you know, the next step after that is to go through the worship and say, what isgoing on in your worship service?
Why when you pray, is everyone like Ulule?
and shouting out loud, know, and screaming.
(19:31):
And is that necessarily the way that scripture says we should be praying?
Is that the most beneficial for the orderly kind of worship that is pleasing to God?
You might read in 1 Corinthians.
Yeah, chapter 14.
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's really great.
So, you you're starting with just giving them that foundation of Scripture.
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And there are, mean, there are two ways you can do mission work.
can say, I'm only going to work with Lutherans.
I'm only going to work with people I already agree with.
And we have this broad consensus on as much as possible, which means I'm only going towork with people we're already in full altar and pulpit fellowship.
You can say, I'm going to work with these people as long as they are still eager andhungry for the word of God.
(20:14):
And they want to learn.
um
And there can be a place and a rhyme and reason for working with uh a church body that ismaybe new, needs support, and helping them do the mission work that God has called them to
do in their place and being a support for them.
(20:35):
um But then there's also, there's room for the...
the forging of these new grounds and going to those places that others otherwise wouldn'tgo to.
So, ah you know, there are many different uh contexts, I suppose, uh that we could talkabout that where the Word of God needs to be a light.
(21:00):
people who are in total darkness, those who are just kind of newbies and those who maybejust need some encouragement and some structure for themselves.
that's very much the way I see the mission is that we are supporting these Nepalesepastors and the people to build up their church and to help them grow as Christians and to
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continue to do the work that they're already doing way better than we do in the USA interms of spreading the message.
I mean, you're I mean, that is if you're just looking at the conversion rate that
The message of the gospel that the people converting to Christianity and saying, yes, Iwant to give up my uh subservience to these witches and these idols and these demon
(21:47):
spirits which terrify us.
And we want Jesus Christ to be our God and our protector.
Yeah, yeah, my grandpa uh told this story about this guy here.
Could you get me a Bible?
It's right there.
I got to find which uh there is this guy he went to.
My grandpa would attend these evangelism, these evangelism, you know, workshops orconferences and conventions.
(22:16):
And he was he was telling about this this story.
uh
He told this story about this guy who came up and, you know, he was from some pagan place,like where they were, he was from a tribe that was like almost even like cannibal or
(22:39):
something like that, like really savage tribe where they would kill people and just theywere really...
uh beyond, you know, not civilized.
And he, what had happened was, some missionaries went to this, to this remote tribe andtried to spread the gospel and they were just killed.
(23:00):
And then um some, some of the women from that tribe got, somehow got in contact with someother women who were Christians who explained the gospel to them.
And then they went back.
and told the tribe about the gospel, then they became more, they became more open to hearabout it.
And then some other missionaries came in and explained the gospel to them and they likeall converted.
(23:24):
And, and this guy, I can't remember his name, uh but uh this, this guy was asked like,what is your favorite Bible verse?
And, uh and he,
And he said, let's see, I think it was in Mark.
ah It must have been.
(23:51):
So I think it was, was it Mark eight?
Let's see where he were the where Jesus cast out a demon or maybe it was Mark nine.
ah No, it must have been Mark nine because I think it was right after the transfiguration.
Um, where, let's see, I'm going to try to find it here.
(24:15):
Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
So, so Mark nine, let me just read the in context.
And one of the crowd answered him, teacher, I brought my son to you for he has a dumbspirit.
And wherever it sees us him, dashes him down and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomesrigid.
And I asked your disciples to cast it out and they were not able.
(24:37):
And he answered them, faithless generation, how long am I to be with you?
How long am I to bear with you?
Bring him to me.
And they brought the boy to him.
when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy and he fell on the ground androlled about foaming at the mouth.
And Jesus asked the father, how long has he had this?
And he said from childhood, and it has often cast him into the fire and into the water todestroy him.
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But if you can do anything, have pity on us and help us.
And Jesus said to him, if you can, all things are possible with
to him who believes.
And immediately the father of the child cried out and said, I believe, help my unbelief.
And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spiritsaying to it, you dumb and deaf spirit, I command you come out of him and never enter him
(25:26):
again.
And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out and the boy was like acorpse so that most of them said he is dead.
But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up and he rose.
So in that passage that I just read from that story that I just read from Mark chapter 9,which of those verses, one of those verses was this guy's favorite Bible verse?
(26:01):
And which one would you guess it would be?
Lord, I believe how my humble
what you would think, right?
I mean, that would be one of my favorite parts of it because, you know, we struggle with aweak faith and help by unbelief.
That's probably one of most memorable ones.
But this is the one, this is his favorite when they asked him, what is your favorite versein the whole Bible?
(26:23):
He said, Mark chapter 9 verse 25.
And this is what it says.
And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit,saying to it, you dumb and deaf spirit, I command you come out of him and never enter him
again.
And that was his favorite Bible verse because he knew what it was like to be under demonicforces, to be in total darkness.
(26:49):
um And that promise, that command of Christ, never enter him again.
was something that this guy took great comfort in.
And it's something that we perhaps don't really consider that.
How deeply dark and miserable the state of unbelief is to be without the grace and favorof God in the gospel.
(27:23):
And this guy...
He knows that.
He knows what that's like.
And he knows what it's like to be rescued from that.
And he takes great comfort in the promise of Christ that he would not let anyone snatchhim out of his hands.
Yeah, well, we kind of from from our experience of American culture, we kind of assumethat the rest of the world is very similar, you know, in our culture, our culture, we.
(27:50):
Yeah, in America.
um I'm uh Edward Nauman from Chicago.
I mean, England is the same in this way though.
Yeah, of course, in Western culture.
the Screwtape letters where the devil, you this is his strategy to really persuade peopleeveryone can be a materialist, you know, not really believing in the devil and he can just
stay hidden.
(28:11):
And that's where we think the rest of the world is.
But where you do have uh
you know, this this demonic grip on on communities and very active witches and and demonicactivity, you know, plaguing people in these kinds of ways, then people are aware of it
and they know it.
And and so part of the deliverance of Jesus Christ of people from their false gods andtheir false religions and these demons is, you know, involves exorcism.
(28:40):
And people experience not only exorcism, but they've also experienced the return of demonsto those
people who have been exorcised in the past.
And so they're off, which is what Jesus also.
Yeah, which is what Jesus also warns of in Luke chapter 11, that they bring seven moreevil spirits.
So they're interested not just in being rid of these demons, they're interested in howJesus can protect them from their return.
(29:07):
And that's why baptism becomes so important with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and thecleansing, not just the cleansing of the house, but that it should be occupied.
Yeah, it should be occupied.
Yeah, that's really amazing.
And it should be an encouragement to us to consider that we are in, even if we might benumbed by the...
(29:31):
I mean, that's kind of the cross that we have to bear is the constant numbing effect ofmaterialism against our faith.
um
you know, not to say, yeah, I'm not saying like, yeah, it's such a cross that we have allthis stuff, don't know what to do with it.
It's like, it's just having to deal with all this money.
(29:54):
But, but to be, to be true though, there, to be serious though, there, there is a crossthat we in the West have to bear, which is the resisting, having to resist the temptation.
that materialism does bring and the sleepiness that it brings to stay awake.
And these, hearing these accounts of these Christians, these brothers and sisters aroundthe world who are resisting the devil, um should give us a shot in the arm to humble
(30:24):
ourselves under God's mighty hand and cast our cares upon Him and to seek the peace ofIsrael, of the Israel of God, of His holy Church throughout the world.
Yeah, well maybe that's part of the reason you see such a high conversion rate there wherethey really see the reality of the spiritual warfare that's going on between these created
(30:47):
spirits, these unclean spirits and the creator who is the only one who has the power todrive them out.
But you know that materialism that we experience, that temptation to become obsessed onlywith worldly things, I mean that's there too.
Sure, yeah.
People are always, you in any culture, gonna be attracted to wealth and putting theirtrust in money and desiring, you know, in an avaricious way to heap up more.
(31:13):
Well, like you were saying, often when you when you get requests, it turns out that theyjust want money.
Yeah.
mean, that happens.
And you have to be careful.
But even if the people are sincere in their Christianity, often it's the case that theyare poor and they need money.
You have to be very careful, even because we have a lot.
(31:37):
in a sense it is our moral obligation to do what we can out of charity to help those whoare in need.
At the same time, you have to be super careful not to build any kind of relationship ofdependency.
Because that will destroy the mission.
And then you become, know, what are you then?
You're kind of the pot of gold, the golden goose, or however you want to describe it.
(32:04):
Yeah
you know, you're introducing a false God.
Yeah.
And that's not helpful to the church.
That's not helpful to their mission.
You know, be better than for them to be worshipping on the in a church on a dirt floor,you know, in a grass hut than to have this great emphasis that you've helped to build and
then provide all kinds of money.
Because what you want is a continuation of that sincerity of faith and that continuationof of their desire to to go after what matters the most.
(32:33):
Sitting at the feet of Jesus.
and hearing his word and learning from him.
So this can be an unintended uh yet catastrophic effect of short-term mission trips whenyou go and em like build a church for someone, em but then it can inadvertently lead to a
(32:55):
kind of dependency.
Not to say that don't go and help them build a church.
don't know if short-term mission trips end up that way necessarily.
oh if you're, I mean, what you want to do in a mission is you want to build thatrelationship whereby the trust increases and they get to know you better, they get to know
what you're teaching and how you're founding those teachings on the Word of God.
(33:19):
they know you as a person too, they know if they can trust you and you build up a kind ofhistory of that relationship of trust.
And relationships are important because everyone who calls themselves Christian will say,can trust me, but you only kind of know that more certainly about a person in the more
(33:41):
experience and history.
have with them.
Well, that's interesting.
So when we were in the library today, your son, Charlie, came to me and asked me if thelibrary had a copy of the Didache, the teaching of the 12 apostles, what first or early
second century document.
(34:02):
And what's interesting about that document is it's not really a catechism in the way thatwe would think of one.
It's more of a manual of how to
operate as a Christian community.
And, you know, like there's a way of life, a way of death.
But one of the things it has in there is warning people about what to do with prophetswhen you encounter prophets.
(34:28):
which we know in the infancy of the New Testament church, you did have prophets, but thenyou had false prophets.
And we have these warnings like in 1 John to test the spirits to see if they're from God.
um And Paul's saying, don't despise prophecy, but test all things and hold fast to what istrue.
um And so it's interesting how they would say, like, if they go in a trance, then in theirtrance, they ask for food or money, then they're false prophets.
(34:55):
Like, there's like these ways to kind of discern whether
So they obviously had to deal with the really the same kinds of things that say they hadthis they still had to practice that very careful discernment of uh not of building
true godly relationships based on the word of God and the common confession, while notslipping into this kind of charlatan feeding sort of frenzy, uh or dependency, as you put
(35:28):
it.
Because that is a recipe for just idolatry, and then they become these just rank hereticalcommunities.
uh As we
as we see, you know, in our, in our country, but also in other countries where, like whenI came, when I came to Africa, I was complaining because I had jet lag and I couldn't
(35:50):
sleep.
And then there was this dog barking and I was so mad at that dog.
And I came down stairs after that.
Well, the next day I was complaining to, to James and Tina about this dog.
And they were like, yeah, that dog is just kind of showed up.
And but then they said, well, at least you guys weren't in like the night before, becausethere was this Pentecostal church with their big loudspeakers and they had to call the
(36:19):
police on them.
And they were they were going like way into the night, just doing all sorts of craziness.
And so, I mean, that stuff is happening.
um
And it's all like, you know, health and wealth kind of gospel.
uh And, know, you get this kind of liberation theology, this prosperity theology that verymuch takes root in these impoverished, maybe non-Western, uh underdeveloped countries.
(36:49):
So, uh but anyway, yeah, so.
It's going to be a temptation anywhere you go.
it's a temptation for them the same way it's a temptation for us.
Yeah.
Well, because we have the same.
running a mission, you know, I can, I can generate all kinds of profit and make thisprofit for me.
You know, I mean that we see the same temptations in our church.
(37:10):
mean, if you're running a publishing house, you you set the price on those books.
So although we make them freely available online for you, for anyone to download and read,uh, so that they're more so that if anyone wants to buy a print copy of a book, we also
make them available in print and there's global distribution and we set the
(37:31):
price.
So I could say, we can make a ton of money here, you know, on the selling of books,because we sell, I don't know, like 1000 books a year.
And, and that could be, you know, an additional revenue source.
And instead, what we do is I set it to one cent uh over the, um you know, printing cost.
(37:57):
So if anyone returns a book, we also have to pay for that, you know, because it getsdestroyed.
But anyway, so we don't make profit from the sale of books.
And instead, the income uh which we use to pay for the translation, the editing, for thedesign, all that comes from people just donating to the general fund of the South Asia
(38:21):
Lutheran mission.
Yeah, that's, it does.
Because we have all the money we need for all the projects.
I have more money for projects now than I ever had as a missionary for the Synod.
So we're able to do twice the amount of work.
And it's great to see it's basically unrestricted.
(38:41):
mean, even if we have a project that needs to be approved between board meetings, we canjust take a vote on it by...
by text message or by email.
And as long as we get enough directors to approve the project, if it's something urgentthat needs to be approved between meetings, then we can get that done straight away,
funded straight away and get it done.
(39:03):
And I think that's the joy of working with a small group of dedicated pastors and a teamof volunteers in this country, in Canada and abroad, is that everyone's really on the same
page.
There's a lot of cooperation and just a lot of joy in
getting these resources out there and getting the teachers there and receiving thisfeedback from the people who receive the teaching, which is we want you to come again next
(39:31):
year.
And the biggest problem is getting the teachers and supplying the needs of people who arehappy with what we are supplying them with.
And they're happy with the supplies and they're happy with the teaching.
Yeah.
So what do you do with, so you said there's a church in Nepal that there's staff, othergroups in Nepal.
(40:00):
Are any of them in fellowship with the Missouri Synod?
No.
None of them are, okay.
But then there's this other group that's kind of, I suppose, its own thing and they'rejust learning from the resources you guys are providing.
And so they're growing and they're understanding.
what would be, have you thought that far ahead?
Like what would be the next step as far as if they wanted to have kind of a fellowship andmaybe they wanted some help and support?
(40:24):
that's the goal, ultimately, is to bring them to such a place.
I mean, we can take them as long as they are willing to go with us, right?
But we are Lutherans and we teach them.
mean, these are the Lutheran confessions and this is the way we do the liturgy becausethis is how we understand Scripture.
It's not like this is the Lutheran way because we're Lutheran.
It's like this is what Scripture says we should do and what we should believe.
(40:50):
This is the Gospel as it is described by Jesus.
And so we will take them, know, as long as they still want to learn, we will continue toteach them until, yeah, eventually, if they continue to learn and they continue to say,
keep coming back, they're at a point where they'll have the Lutheran doctrine and theLutheran practice and all the requirements are fulfilled.
(41:12):
You know, if you were to look at the kind of colloquy program or something like that, orthe requirements for
or like membership in like the ILC or something.
things that the Missouri Synod would be looking for for declaring fellowship, all of thatultimately would come into place without the Synod having to lift a finger.
Just hand it to them and say, here's where we are.
(41:36):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, that's really great.
So the main one is in Nepal, but then you have, are there any other communities that havebeen kind of popping up that you're at these kind of early stages with?
Yeah, there are a couple of communities in India.
Like I said, we sent one of the directors to India and he led uh a teaching session on thesmall catechism there and they're eager to have him back.
(42:00):
There's another one in India where we haven't been before and they're requesting a teacherrepeatedly.
And these are people who weren't Lutheran.
Well, they may even say we're Lutheran.
Yeah.
They don't know much about what that means.
So we're Lutheran, but yeah, we just we would like you to teach the small catechism.
Well, I mean, how Lutheran can you be without reading the small catechism?
(42:23):
exactly.
that's, I mean, I know that this is a case that I've talked with Pastor May about thathe'll meet people who are, they'll say, we're confessional Lutherans, which means that
they don't want women pastors.
And, know, he'll run across people who are like confessional Lutherans.
(42:44):
And then when he actually talks to them, like, they don't know the confessions, you know,and so the goal then is to actually teach them the confessions.
they can really be confessional Lutherans.
yeah, yeah, no, but I mean, that's just, that's part of the task though.
That's the work of the mission.
And I like how you put that, that is, we're not Lutheran just because we're Lutheran.
(43:07):
Like, no, this is how Jesus teaches the gospel.
This is how He has given us the gospel through His apostles and prophets.
um So yeah, well, great.
Well, where can people find you and learn more about your mission of songwriting?
so we have a website and that's SouthAsiaLutheranMission.com and if you look that up onFacebook, there's also Facebook.
(43:36):
Yeah, what's that?
Where all the college kids go and say what they're doing.
Yeah, mean, to be honest, we're not like very public with everything.
And that's for a couple of reasons.
First, there is some danger in a couple of the places where we operate.
(43:56):
So I don't like to put a lot of pictures and a lot of updates about the kinds ofactivities we're doing in those areas where the Christian teachers may be endangered or
may not be.
I mean, one teacher's son went missing and he was never found last year.
my goodness.
So, I mean, this is serious.
There is danger and I don't want to be the one to put anyone in danger for the sake offundraising.
(44:23):
That's one reason I don't put regular updates about everything we're doing.
And some people, you if they're looking at what we're doing, they try and get it in theway of the mission and try and stop it.
I...
you know, how would that benefit anyone?
God will provide, you know, the necessary funds for anything.
You we've never had not enough funds to do a project that we had the opportunity to do.
(44:50):
And the other reason is, you know, who wants to read a newsletter every month anyway?
mean, there's already enough stuff.
Or every week?
No, I was just kidding.
Subscribe to Christian News.
Well, I...
(45:16):
And is often slow business.
Still working on this commentary.
Still working on this translation.
Still editing that.
there aren't, in some ways there are just less updates than, I mean, you can always tellstories and...
you know, introduce characters and give profiles of people you're working with and so on.
(45:37):
Yeah.
But I also don't want to fall into the trap of doing mission work so that I can have astory to tell.
And so I can brag about it, like either me fall into that trap or like the nonprofitgroup.
me stop you right there and let me tell you about our Camp Trendy Academy and how this isgrowing and like all the great things that we've been able to do.
(46:01):
We got how many kids came this year?
percentage growth year on year.
No, no, I hear what you're saying and I commend you for that.
And that shows a lot of wisdom and care for the mission and humility, you know, to say, weare unworthy servants, we have only done our duty um to entrust this all to Christ.
(46:25):
And I think that those words are encouraging to pastors and missionaries and anyone who isinvolved in the work of the Church.
with honest hearts, you know, that we know that the fruit, don't get to see all the fruitat once.
You what did Jesus say to his apostles?
(46:47):
He says, you're going to reap what other people sowed.
And we're reaping what they sowed.
And uh we look to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come whenChrist, who is our life, will appear and all of the fruit will appear with Him as we are
with Him in glory.
That's our hope.
(47:07):
uh But there's another element to this as well, that people who...
I know that some of the stuff that you've published, it's not just people internationallyor, you know, uh of Asian descent and Asian communities who benefit from this, but there
(47:29):
even our own pastors who have benefited from these uh publications.
So could you talk about maybe one or two that you've published that have been helpful toour own people?
Yeah, well, the one that comes to mind is your brother's book.
know, Stephen Preuss wrote a great little book on how to preach for a funeral.
(47:50):
And that came out of a conference paper that he had given, which I heard.
I thought that was, you know, I don't know of another book like this.
And this is greatly needed.
You know, this is different from what I learned at seminary.
And this is actually what needs to be heard by pastors, because this comes from a pastor'sexperience and, um you know,
(48:11):
good sound theology.
And so, yeah, we produced this, How to Preach for a Funeral, and it's in English.
But then we have translated to other languages.
And I think it's going to be useful in a number of other languages.
But English books, you know, I don't know how many hundreds of those copies of thatparticular book have been printed and distributed in the USA.
(48:36):
I would think it's about 500 at the moment.
But English as a language is also a South Asian language.
And we should know that because more people in South Asia speak English than in the USA.
Maybe not as a first language, but as a second language, they speak and they canunderstand English.
(49:00):
And a lot of people prefer to read in English than their native tongue.
And that's often because the English alphabet is more frequently used and so it's easierfor them to read the alphabet.
But for that...
said, okay, so I got a story real quick, the English alphabet.
So it's the, what, the Roman alphabet, technically.
(49:21):
So I remember when I was in seminary at St.
Catharines, Ontario, and I'm an American going to this Canadian seminary.
and they, they, we had a convocation with a guy from Lutheran Bible translators came andwas talking about the, you know, that their work with translating the Bible and in all
these different languages.
(49:41):
And I asked like, well, what about, you know, they said how the
they need to develop a, they need to actually develop an alphabet for them often becausethey don't really have one.
And so I raised my hand, I asked, so I mean, how do you determine what the alphabet is?
you just use, do you just, do you come up with an alphabet or?
(50:03):
Is there some kind of alphabet they already have or do you, do you just use the Americanalphabet?
And then once I said that, Dr.
Winger was like the American alphabet.
So anyway, but you said English alphabet.
So, but yeah, sorry.
Go, go ahead.
They need resources in English.
(50:24):
Yeah, yeah, no, makes sense.
not just in South Asia.
Yeah, that's the case in Africa.
uh
And, but most of the really great uh English language resources are under copyright.
And you cannot just take it and then copy it and print it in South Asia.
(50:45):
And that's a huge problem for us.
I mean, a lot of the resources we're producing now, it wouldn't be necessary for us toproduce them.
if the copyright restrictions were not in place.
So in other words, if we had the license to publish internationally without restrictions,then we could print those, distribute them, we could translate them into other languages
(51:07):
without restriction.
But there are some English language resources.
So I just found recently a great set of English language Sunday school curriculum atdifferent age levels, which is produced by...
The Church of the Lutheran Confession.
Actually, yeah.
(51:28):
it has references to the Lutheran hymnal and the material is awesome as far as I haven'tread every single page in it to do a...
It's great because it follows, it's all like church history.
It's not just these kind of clumps of like, of just Bible stories that don't really fittogether.
It follows the whole church history.
(51:49):
And yeah, we've been using that at Trinity here, along with the Concordia Bible history.
then, yeah, it's a great resource.
And so I called up the director on the phone too and I shocked he actually picked up thephone.
His name was Pastor David Nauman.
It probably distantly related.
uh
like distant cousins.
(52:10):
And so he said, yeah, you can take that material and you can print it, do what you likewith it.
And I was shocked to find someone who actually had the same mission philosophy that wedid.
But to me, it's just basic.
mean, these are resources that the church produced to be used by the church.
(52:31):
And so to me, that's a no brainer.
mean, yeah.
That's, yeah.
Yeah.
So, that book, Preaching How to Preach at a Funeral, yeah, that is a really good resource.
That's really helpful.
I should have Stephen on next time he comes and visits me, we can talk about that.
But yeah, any other publications that...
(52:56):
Well, I might be wondering like, can we do all this work?
How can we print and distribute books?
And, uh, and the way we are able to do it is we don't run a bookshop.
So, uh, we, we use a distributor called IngramSpark and they do the printing and, thenthe, sellers like amazon.com, Barnes and Nobles, they will purchase from the distributor,
(53:24):
from the printer.
at a discount price and then they will sell it on their website.
So that's why you can find our books on amazon.com and other booksellers because they canget them and so they can still make a profit.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, that's great.
So someone can go on uh South Asia Lutheran mission.com
(53:48):
France, could be in England, you could be in India and go on Amazon.in and find thesebooks and order them.
great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh so if anyone is interested in that, uh it would be uh well worth your time to checkthat out.
And uh we'll continue to, to wish you well and, and pray for the success of, of God'smission through, through the stewardship that He's given you.
(54:19):
And uh Reverend Dr.
Edward Nauman, thanks for coming on.
this episode today.
Sure.
I appreciate it.
My pleasure.
Yeah.
So I'll see you around.
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