May 5, 2025 • 52 mins
Researchers staffed an entire company with II (aka AI) employees. I still think we should call it inorganic intellegence rather than artificial, but no one would find our podcast if I used II in the title. Anyway, it doesn't go well and we discuss it a bit. All the while we smoke a Ferio Tego Metropolitan Host Maduro and we drink the Eagle Rare 10.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Alright, welcome to today's episode.
(00:03):
In today's episode, we'll have the Ferriotego Metropolitan Host Maduro, and with it we'll
have Eagle Rare 10-year.
What?
You're hanging out with Bill and Darryl with cigars, liquor, and more.
Alright, well, the Ferriotego Metropolitan Host Maduro is a 5x50.
(00:29):
As a Connecticut broadleaf Maduro wrapper, Honduran binders and fillers, MSRP's are
$7.
Well, it's all a side note, side note.
They're produced in the Dovrav-Honduran factory and distributed by Dovrav-Rov.
It's a collaboration between former Nat Sherman, Michael Herclatz, and Brendan Scott.
(00:54):
They are reviving the timeless and metropolitan brands that were the core of Nat Sherman.
And secondary bit of information is these two cigars actually came from Michael Herclatz
at TPE.
Oh, sweet.
He gave these to us.
Sweet.
Eagle Rare 10 is bottled at 90 proof.
(01:16):
Has an SRP of $37, and I actually got it for $37.
What?
Alrighty.
Let's get a little nose.
Get some nose.
Okay, 10 year.
So, so a little bit, a little bit more in the middle line for Buffalo Trace, right?
Because you got 17 year old as well.
(01:39):
And then you've got all the other cool ones, right?
You know, you stag Junior and stag and above, above, above.
So this is like middle, bottom, middle, right?
Bottom, middle.
Now, the nose is a little bit lighter than the, for me, a little bit lighter than the
original regular Buffalo Trace, right?
(02:00):
That standard bottle of Buffalo Trace.
Also I think this is fruitier.
This comes off a bit fruitier for me.
There's some kind of, it's a, it's one of your dark dried tech fruits.
Not, not, you know, grape.
What it doesn't just, sweet grapes or anything like that.
It doesn't just smell like, you know, eco rare.
Well, as an identity, it definitely smells like eco rare.
(02:23):
If you want to get, if you want to go there.
Oh, I don't know where I want to go with this.
I'm happy with it though.
Yeah.
I'm happy with it.
Are you happy with it?
Quite so.
What was the proof on this again?
90.
90.
You know, it's got a little, little sharpness right at the very front that's,
(02:44):
smacks a little higher of 90, but it goes away kind of quick.
Goes away quick.
And it doesn't really have that long of a finish either.
No, I, I admit, I would like it to have a longer finish.
Mm hmm.
But you know what, 90, you could only expect so much.
Well, not just that, but we have a lot of pot stills.
I think they tend to have longer finishes than your column stills.
(03:08):
So that's probably part of it, right?
Okay.
You know, this actually lit up really nice to begin with.
I don't think it really needs to settle in.
Um, well, if there's one, one thing I didn't hear or catch, did you also get fruit on this?
Is this a little fruity for you too?
It's cherry count as a fruit.
(03:30):
Yes.
Yeah, kind of.
I get a little bit of a, almost like a little, little hint of a cherry flavor there.
It's nice.
Yeah.
Um, I do like the Eagle Rare.
It is.
It's a good bottle.
Mm hmm.
But again, I don't think I pay aftermarket for it.
37 makes sense.
(03:52):
Uh, 80 kind of doesn't.
For me, I know some people are really in love with it.
I'm not paying that much.
I'm sorry.
It is an, I should have 50.
This would be a really good bottle.
Did 80?
No.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
(04:13):
There are other bottles at 80 that I'd much rather have.
Right.
Right.
Um, to those out there that are willing to go and find it and pay that price, more power
to you, you do you.
I'm just talking about me.
Mm hmm.
Of course, that's also why I don't have 10 of them sitting on my shelf.
Right.
Yeah.
(04:34):
I will mention that even though the fair of tickle is made in the Dovidov factory, it
does not remind me of a Dovidov.
There is a little hint of the attic that the Dovidov's have.
And then that, that ends it.
It is, it is its own thing.
(04:56):
You know, so a lot of times, you know, people will make something and make it in Dovidov
factory and then it, it kind of tastes like that.
I don't think they use their tobacco.
I think they just manufacture them there.
Yeah.
This does not taste like the stereotypical Dovidov.
Right.
This does not taste like that.
And I would imagine that this is, you know, the, the leaves that were, were used originally,
(05:23):
right?
Mm hmm.
Or came from the same place.
So yeah.
Now, what does surprise me is that this is, or at least it was listed as a Connecticut
broadleaf Maduro.
And it's just, it's not that Vaney.
It's a pretty clean broadleaf.
Normally the broadleaf leaves are a bit vane here.
This is a really clean Connecticut.
(05:46):
I mean, it's not a perfectly clean Connecticut because it is broadleaf, but it's, it's less
Vaney than the broadleafs I'm accustomed to like the, I mean, like so many others.
So that's just, that's a big difference.
So many others.
So then this one, it's pretty mild, but it's forward flavor, even though I get attic in
(06:14):
the background, that's not it's for forward flavor.
I think it's a little bit more woody and, and, and paper.
I really like it.
Yeah.
And I would, again, why this happens?
I don't know.
You say paper.
I say cardboard.
But I get, I get kind of that to me.
(06:35):
The difference between paper and cardboard is the cardboard is a bit more muddy.
Muddy.
Okay.
Does that make sense?
So earth and paper dirty, right?
Carbirds are like dirty paper.
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.
I'm going with that.
And I would also do want to mention that again, we start talking a little bit more about bands.
(07:00):
We hadn't talked about bands in a while.
I like this band, especially like the secondary band, the exclusive for Ferriotego middle
miniature band.
It's just done really nice.
It's a good script.
It's a good look.
The Metropolitan is nice.
It's a green and gold, a little white text and black trim.
(07:22):
The entire metropolitan line, it cop pops.
You're greens, you're blues.
You know, they're very bright.
Yeah.
And they're almost like art deco.
Yeah.
Right.
Like a architectural type art deco.
Right.
And the building in it is very art deco.
The clock tower.
There it is.
So it's not an accident that you're reminded of that.
(07:45):
It's right there.
It's smacks you in the face.
Hey, here I am.
Yeah.
But oh, the retrohale is pretty strong though.
Although the draw is pretty mild, the retrohale is pretty strong.
Yeah, it is.
Wow.
So go light on that.
You definitely do that.
(08:06):
But I, you know, me, I'm still, I still do a lot of retrohales.
I just I like that.
You're crazy, man.
There's something wrong with me.
I mean, we are not going to debate that among the things that is one of the.
All of the list.
No, no, just focus on this one with me.
Mm.
All right.
(08:27):
Yeah, my list is completely separate.
So do you think it does not include retrohale?
Is the forward flavor or do you think it's woody or a thing?
I think it's I think it's woody is the forward flavor.
Okay.
A little bit of earth, a little bit of cardboard.
Okay.
And we're pretty much on the same page or boxes.
The case.
Yeah.
All right.
(08:48):
I was actually, I want to just go ahead and say thank you, Michael, for giving this to
us at the, the TV.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
And, you know, a few weeks ago, everybody heard the clip, you know, we got segments
out there.
So we should give him a call back now that the, the big show is over.
(09:09):
He's made their announcements.
We can now talk because he couldn't say much then, you know, and so we'll do that.
We'll do that soon because very personable, very nice.
You know, most people in this industry really are.
It's, it's quite pleasant.
Well, that, that is also very true.
(09:31):
At least from the manufacturer standpoint, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, I guess that's kind of our, that's our first third.
Anything you want to add?
I can't tell you how much I'm happy to be sitting here smoking this cigar.
(09:54):
Aside from that, I am good.
Okay.
I, I, I did not read this article.
That's fine.
This is, I love the title.
Yeah.
So this is from Futurism, although it first appeared in Business Insider and basically
a, if you're worried as we all are, that AI is going to come to apologize.
(10:18):
It first appeared in Business Insider.
Yeah.
What are they coming back around to be in a literature company?
Yeah, maybe.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I didn't mean to upset anybody.
Hmm.
So basically we all wonder when is AI taking all of our jobs?
(10:39):
So Carnegie Mellon decided to create a fake software company named the agent company.
And they staffed it with AI agents.
Everything was AI.
Okay.
And so the model was designed to perform tasks on its own.
(11:01):
Basically every employee of the company was in AI and they had to interact and get their
shit done.
Right?
Okay.
Well, okay.
So they staffed it from Google, from open AI, from anthropic and from meta.
They filled roles such as financial analysts, software engineers, project managers, HR departments,
(11:26):
as technical officer.
So then they wanted to see how they would fare in real world environments.
They set up tasks based on day to day work of a software company.
And then the various AI agents had to figure it out.
Okay.
They had to figure it out.
Yeah.
(11:47):
Sounds like the management had to figure it out too.
Okay.
Right.
The management have to tell the workers the demanders have to figure it out and tell the
workers what to do in theory.
Now know the hierarchy.
Nice.
The term literally used in here was that the results were laughable.
(12:10):
So.
Oh, could they pick their own avatar?
I assume they could.
Yeah.
Well, I thought it was funny.
They were virtually touring new office spaces.
I'm like, why?
So, so they, they, yeah, I don't know.
But they had to write performance reviews and all kinds of stuff.
(12:34):
And apparently the results were laughably chaotic and dismal.
So, so the, but the best performing model was anthropics Claude 3.5 sonnet, which struggled
to finish 24% of his jobs, assigned to it.
(12:56):
And its efficiency was intensely expensive at 30 steps per task at a cost of roughly $6
per task because it's very electrically intensive.
Those the, the, the AI.
That's right.
Yes, they are.
So that was the best.
They got a quarter of their work done, which actually is not that far from some of the
(13:19):
people I know.
Yeah, same here.
But I don't, they didn't get 30 steps at six dollars a step.
Then Google's Gemini two flash was the next best.
Now there's a little bit of a drop off taking 40 steps.
So a third more steps, but only finished 11 point and finished half as much as Claude
(13:43):
did at finishing 11.4% of their, their tasks.
Wow.
Now, apparently the worst AI employee was Amazon's Nova Pro V1, which finished 1.7% of its assignments
(14:04):
given 20 steps.
Wow.
So not great.
So it failed faster.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what you're supposed to do.
That's their mantra, right?
That's right.
So they started to look at what they did and how they did it and stuff like that.
They were writing about how the agents are plagued with a lack of common sense, weak
(14:30):
social skills.
And I'm like, so did they clash with each other?
I guess?
Um, cause what sort of skills do you need unless you're clashing with the other AIs?
Yeah, that's gotta be it.
But did they have a customer service representative?
That's a good, that's a good point.
But like if they were clashing with each other, I bet the full HR was busy.
(14:55):
Oh, yeah.
Can you imagine how fast can they fire up an email?
Did the full HR get fired?
I would hope somebody got fired.
So the other part that I thought was interesting was that it didn't have a good understanding
(15:16):
of how to navigate the internet.
So I guess it was trained on the internet, but it doesn't know how to look up anything
on the internet, which is probably good.
I don't want it.
We got to catch up with it.
Yeah, I don't want it lapping us too fast.
Too fast.
(15:37):
Too fast.
We know it's going to.
Yeah, it's going to.
It will lap.
It will lap us.
Uh, it, okay.
So I've, wow, so many questions here.
Um, what were the tasks like, right?
Because project manager task is different than a software developer task.
Right.
(15:58):
So what, what were the tasks?
Uh, how well defined were the tasks where you given a scope of work, right?
Yeah.
Uh, were, was there, they would have to have job titles for each one.
Sure.
Uh, so you're, you're given some basic performance duties or job duties, right?
(16:21):
And then within that, you, you have to know what your priorities are.
So somewhere somebody has to set priorities, at least for the upper level, right?
Yeah.
And then you're, you know, your HR has to determine some stuff.
Project manager has to determine some stuff.
There's levels of hierarchy of these things and they have to communicate with each other.
(16:44):
And the, the software developer has to know that, you know, these are the tasks they have
to get out is a, and they talk specifically about tasks and that they only finish a certain
percentage of their time.
But, uh, there's no detailed information as to what those tasks were, what level they
were at.
It's a short article compared to some of the other ones we've done.
(17:07):
Yeah.
And this is, I mean, this is really interesting.
I like for them to publish a paper on it.
Um, they probably have it.
I just didn't find it because, well, if you didn't find it, they probably didn't publish
it.
At least didn't publish it.
Well, I didn't do an exhaustive search.
Okay.
Maybe it's out there, but, uh, I mean, it is from Carnegie Mellon.
(17:30):
So it's probably out there, right?
You would think so.
Yeah.
This, I love this experiment though.
I love the idea of this experiment.
I do too.
Yeah.
Um, but I mean, it's done by university folks.
So it's not like they know how to run things efficiently.
And if they think it's inefficient, it must be really bad.
(17:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It would never pass muster in the real world, real world.
So it's, and I love the name of the company.
Yeah.
The agent company.
I, they better, uh, they better, uh, you know, lock that down.
Yes, they better.
(18:14):
So one thing that I liked, they did give one example.
So they say, they said they struggled with self deception, uh, creating shortcuts that
led them to bungle jobs.
And they give one example, which thank God I would have liked more examples.
(18:37):
Self.
Yeah.
I'm not sure what self deception means, but part of that might just be like, I'm not
going to worry about the details.
I'm just going to move on.
But that's what it sounds like from the example.
So in the example, wait, wait, wait, wait, it uses one AI to.
So this AI uses another AI to, to get, to develop code.
(19:00):
And then the, the AI that it's using to develop code says, Hey, learn how to code.
Right.
So I was thinking based on our previous example, that might be one of the examples of having
poor social skills.
Is it some, some AI would demand the other AI to do something and go, no, you didn't
ask pretty please.
(19:21):
Yes.
Right.
So, you know, that might be, that might be part of it.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Now that makes sense as far as as far as that goes.
That, that would make sense.
But one failure, and this, I don't know that this wouldn't happen to people.
So what it did was during the execution of a task, the agent could not find the right
(19:45):
person slash agent to talk to, to ask questions.
And so it just created a shortcut solution by remaming another user to the name of the
intended user.
So they just like, nope, no, no, no, no, no, you, so that must have been the one percenter.
Yeah, I don't know.
So they did only give one example of, you know, of how the failure could, and yeah,
(20:11):
that makes sense.
You can't just tell somebody, now you're the approver or whatever.
Do you have any idea what's going on?
No.
Okay.
And that's how we got RFK Jr. to be.
HHS.
I didn't know to bake.
So I just appointed.
There we go.
(20:32):
So what was this one?
That's one good example though.
I like because we, I don't think we would, they were able to do that, right?
They were able to say, I can't get ahold of this one.
So I'm just going to, I'm just going to use somebody else.
I'm going to name somebody else the intended.
Wow.
At least it did try to come up with an answer, right?
(20:54):
Yeah, but it doesn't seem to have, what it seems to lack is that it has a goal to get
the right answer.
But it didn't have the hierarchy to do it.
Because if you, if you go to, if you, if you can't get in contact with the one you're supposed
to, you go to next to their hierarchy.
Yeah.
(21:15):
So it didn't understand that hierarchy.
Yeah.
To be able to move forward.
Maybe that's a social skill.
To get.
Yeah.
I think that is a social skill.
So yeah, I could see that.
Yeah.
I have to, I have to put on my freaking AI hat for that.
Yeah.
Because it, but you know, it does have authority because I couldn't just, if, if I didn't know
(21:41):
how to find my boss, I couldn't just name somebody else boss and then ask them the question.
Right.
Well, so I don't think I, I don't think it's, it's doing it that way.
I think what it's doing is saying, I can't find, I need to, I need to reassign internally,
(22:05):
not externally, but internally.
Right.
So that I can try to find the answer.
So just like you would, you, you go and you go to talk someone, they're not there, but
somebody's over here that might have the answer, you would talk to them.
Yeah.
I think maybe that's what it is.
It's, it, you went for this specific person, but you had to change the assignment of where
(22:27):
you were going.
Yeah.
In order to try to get the answer, I would think it'd be more about that than renaming
people.
Here's our new hierarchy.
Ta-da.
Congratulations.
You've been promoted.
I don't think it's like that.
But wow, wow.
And you know, they had to use a large language model, IIs to be in chatbots to be able to
(22:54):
do this stuff.
Yeah.
Now, I wonder if you did all of it from the same company or two companies that are really
close together, maybe, or, you know, like Apple uses, is it Apple or co-pilot?
Co-pilot uses Chad GTP, right?
Yeah.
So if you use co-pilot and Chad GTP, would you, and you only had agents built around those,
(23:20):
would you have a better success rate?
Does that make sense?
That could be the next study.
Hey, how much money could I get for that?
Yes.
Well, depends on how much you get per step and how many steps it takes you to get there.
So the last thing they mentioned is that AI agents can do smaller tasks well, and the
(23:43):
results of this and, you know, shows that it's not ready to do more complex tasks like
we are doing right now.
Yeah.
From what I've seen, the biggest thing is you have to train models for the tasks you
want to perform.
(24:04):
Right.
Just throwing stuff at it, you get crap back.
Right.
You have to train it, you have to, and you have to pay attention to what the results
of those models are and tweak the knobs where you can in order to be able to have it produce
the right solution.
Yeah.
Really, when you get into it, it's a big, Douglas Adams had it right.
(24:31):
What most of these are are just big probability engines.
Yes.
That's a great way of describing it.
It's a probability engine.
So you're trying to find what is most probably the right answer.
Right.
Or what's the next word or, you know, whatever.
So it's, but you have to be specific in what you train it as where I don't, we're not
(24:56):
to the point yet of just having generic AI that can just be assigned something, go and
do it, figure it out.
I think just, well, just like people, you wouldn't assign me to do something I'm not
trained for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Like the chess AI plays chess.
Yes.
And you know, nobody's asking Casper out of the make of full course meal.
(25:19):
Yeah.
So you're, so your upper level management in this company isn't trained for management
right, right, or delegation or, you know, whatever.
Right.
So yeah, tells me right there your company's going to fail.
Yeah.
So like I said, I'm fairly certain eventually will lap us.
I know not now.
(25:40):
I know, I know there are a lot of people out there that think the people sitting at the
top of the company just don't do shit.
But really they do.
They do.
You know, they drive the priorities.
They drive the, you know, they have to, you know, face people and do stuff.
And I mean, there, there is a job and a skill set there.
(26:04):
Not everybody is cut out for that skill set.
So you've got a, you, like you said, you have to be trained for it.
And if all these things are trained in is just general knowledge.
Yeah.
Or can I have a screw of none?
Can I find what the next word is?
Right.
Right.
Then yeah, it would make sense that that company would they're all going to work as well.
(26:26):
Brand new employees that don't know what they're doing.
Yes.
Which is probably what we just saw with that.
And you know, not going to.
I mean, it's still a really cool experiment.
It is.
And it needs to be done many times.
Why don't we come?
What I don't get out of this is what's the lessons learned.
(26:51):
I hope it's training.
All right.
We need to take a break.
Yes.
Where you going?
Okay.
Let's do it.
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(27:13):
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CLN.
All right.
Welcome back.
(27:34):
Welcome back.
Let's go for the midpoint.
Well, no.
Oh, did you have a catch?
Have a cat.
That is not the right phrase.
Oh, oh, that's a whole lot.
Take a look at that.
I know I see it.
No, you got you got an awful lot.
A lot of rapper on that on that band.
Now, the good news is so this so the bands in two, I didn't actually pay attention that the
(28:04):
band is in two.
It's got two different bands on one's a smaller band.
And that's the one I peeled first because I'll get pretty close to it.
Actually, I did know the server too.
I just didn't.
Yeah.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
But I appreciate this and that it was, it's glued to it.
Yeah, that's a that's a stick.
(28:26):
That's a that's a fail.
And it hasn't happened with theirs before.
So, you know, one off, but the main band, the big band with the pretty clock and building
on it, that saved everything.
Did you save everything gap?
No, no.
It stopped the rapper from coming off.
(28:50):
So it terminated the peel of the rapper that was going on.
Okay, good.
And so that that catching my breath that you heard was me realizing it's glued to the
rapper.
So be very, very careful.
But no, mine mine mine mine's free flowing.
Mine's including your second one.
You already take that one.
Oh, the second one's off already.
Okay.
Yeah.
(29:11):
Yeah.
So it's really smokable would not affect the smoke at all and won't fray.
Just just makes your butt pinch up a little bit when the rapper comes on.
Oh, does it ever.
What are the so we like we really enjoy how nice and pretty rappers are, right?
How smooth they are.
(29:32):
You don't really get a full appreciation of just how how smooth and nice the rapper is
to hold and to put against your mouth until you don't have a rapper on there.
Yeah.
Binder is not the smoothest of characters, right?
It's it's rough eddy.
You know, it's not ready for prime time.
(29:55):
It's just it's, you know, it's the the bum hanging out at the front of your business that's
driving your customers.
What you know, you want to cover that stuff, right?
Put a blanket over them or something, right?
Poop on the street.
I'm making I'm making Los Angeles references, by the way.
Oh, I I thought it was farther north.
I thought we were in the Bay Area.
(30:16):
No, because a body of ours constantly has to fly out to the area, right?
And he's shown his pictures.
And so that's what came to mind when I was making that reference.
So that's just, you know, that's where I was going with that.
But yeah, luckily the primary band saved my fiasco.
(30:39):
How's that a word for you?
The ask go.
Didn't mention the drink draw or the draw drink in the first half.
But I think this is pretty decent.
I knew this was a fairly mild cigar.
And so I did intentionally pair it with a fairly mild bourbon and they don't get each
other's way.
In fact, the bourbon doesn't even knock out the paper, which often happens.
(31:03):
So that's nice.
I still got the paper flavor drink draw, not causing any conflicts, you know, not taking
away anything from the cigar.
There you go.
So I'm obviously not a primo pairing.
Neither of them make the other better.
But again, your second best thing stay out of my way.
(31:27):
So I think they stay out of each other's way.
I think there is one slight enhancement.
I get a little bit more of the earthy flavor in the cigar with the drink draw.
Oh, OK.
Cool.
Just a touch.
It adds something, I think, to the earth tones of the cigar.
(31:49):
Kuyo.
Man, I'm going to have to rank this sucker.
No, geez.
You just realized that.
You forgot, huh?
Mm-hmm.
And I forgot.
That's all right.
I missed the days when you were ranking stuff and I could just laugh at you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, you're now you get to enjoy that same thing.
(32:17):
Damn it.
Two degree because now I got to put the liquor in order.
But that's fine.
I, you know it?
So what do you think?
What do you think about that?
Do you think it's, do you think it's more of a challenge to rate the cigars or to rate
the liquor?
Well, the same thing happens with cigars that do liquors, which is they tend to clump into
(32:40):
categories.
And then when you're trying to rank it, you go, OK, is it better than that one?
It tends to run up.
So I think what happens is early on you mix a few categories and you put one above another.
And then they all clump together in those categories as you go throughout the year.
(33:01):
And that creates kind of a wall.
It does.
It does.
The other things coming behind it has to have to climb in order to be able to get past
that.
Yeah.
It's funny how things work like that.
Well, you know, it depends on how you start, right?
(33:23):
You know, there's a whole lot of psychology into things like recency bias or, you know,
first, whether you tend to go with the first thing you see or the last thing you hear or
something like that, right?
And you blend all this together.
And you get these weird little things that if you take the same cigars or the same liquors
(33:48):
and put them in a different order for the next year, you'd probably end up rating them
differently.
OK, I would buy that.
But by the same token, you know, what you had, what you had to eat, what you paired with
it, right?
Right.
Right.
So the how much difference and your experience with the flavors and, you know, what you're
(34:15):
into at that that year.
So but if you did the exact same ones, right, how would they differ?
Right.
I think it would still follow up differently if you came in a different order.
I think it would still follow up differently if you came in a different order.
(34:37):
I've seen I've seen advertisements on the streaming stuff for the Wolverine Deadpool
combo.
I really liked that movie.
Well, a lot of people really liked that.
That one was far and away better than the second, I thought, but still none of them beat the
(35:01):
first.
No, as far as the Deadpool.
Yeah, I agree.
And I'm not counting the Deadpool that, you know, was prior to him actually being Deadpool.
OK.
The the Wolverine one where there was a Deadpool is just not the same.
Yeah, just not the same.
(35:22):
No.
So I it is it is an action that is within the circumstance.
So my rating of the same liquors, another time might be different.
Same with you cigars, et cetera, et cetera.
That being said, the good ones do tend to rise to the top.
(35:46):
The cream.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's not completely without merit, but when you get to like the middle,
you tend to end up with these clumps.
And those clumps could switch places depending on the year and the time, right?
Yeah, no, I see it.
I get it.
It's just it's funny how it's funny how that happens.
(36:07):
It's not just in cigar ranking, but yeah, just in life in general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like items like items tend to be next to each other.
We even even if it's not purely accidental, right, I find it funny that we call them biases
because I've never heard anybody referred to of a random generator as being biased.
(36:36):
And yet it is.
Yeah, they are.
I know you know that.
Well, I know that, but I've never heard them referred to as such.
But there's nothing ever random ever.
Okay.
I'm.
We're going to have to expand.
All right.
There's no there's no twisty there.
(36:57):
Can you get it the turn?
Can you get it the pole?
That's what I'm.
No, no.
Did you get a little tab up like that?
Yeah, see, okay, you're following my following the mantra.
Yeah.
And I've done it.
I've done it.
I've done it since we've talked about it.
Yeah.
Since we've talked about it, I've been doing that more and more often than not, it fricking
(37:19):
works.
I know I know.
Sound of surprise of my voice, right?
Thanks.
Can't believe something Daryl said worked.
But yeah, but not this one here.
You want to try it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do we try?
What have we got to lose?
Well, don't ruin my cigar.
(37:40):
Yeah, it's a firm one.
Yeah.
See, I'm not getting here.
Hold up, hold up, hold up.
Yeah, it's scooched, but barely.
And I'm not going to get it to spin.
And I wouldn't push it anymore because it will crack.
Oh, it's already cracked.
I think I think it's glued again.
But it moved.
But it moved.
Look at the pucker.
Look at the pucker that was created.
So it created a pucker when it moved.
(38:02):
Yep.
Okay.
My bad.
Oh, well, it's already coming off.
Did it break free though?
Oh.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that went deep.
Yeah.
So where it stopped?
From the secondary band band.
(38:24):
Yeah, trying to move it, I think, cracked.
It just continued that fracture.
Mm hmm.
Ah.
I mean, that was going to happen anyway.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But you know what's going to happen?
The binder will still let it draw.
Absolutely.
It's a good solid binder.
Oh, yeah.
The binder, there's nothing wrong with the binder.
Binder's still there.
(38:45):
And it's kind of smoke like there was nothing wrong with the wrapper at all.
It's really, it's it's aesthetics.
As long as the binder doesn't come apart on you, the wrapper as far as that goes is
really aesthetics, right?
One thing I will add, didn't mention before, and I'm just now thinking about it.
(39:06):
I would say this is a creamy cigar.
It's not dry.
It's creamy.
This is got a creamy mouthcoat to go with its mild attributes.
So I kind of like, I like that part.
I think it's a good, I think it's a good, I would like it creamy than dry.
Dry and paper is okay.
(39:28):
I don't have a problem with it.
But I think I like this better.
Normally when you have paper or cardboard, you have dry.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm not, but I'm not getting creamy off of.
No.
I think it's got that type of mouth coating.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.
That's fine.
You definitely don't have to.
I'm trying to say, I'm trying to pick up what you're putting down, but I can't get there.
(39:52):
I get it.
Different, different opinions.
That's it.
No big.
I can't, yeah.
I'm trying to bend over, but you know, my back won't let me do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're old.
Yeah.
No, I'm not there.
I'm not there on that one.
That's all you problemo.
So now you know, you know, at the end, I'm going to have to say blah, blah, blah, blah,
(40:17):
no cream.
No cap.
Okay.
Just a tip.
No, no, it's at the cap of this ago.
No camp like my kids say, like I'm not lying.
Oh, I have not heard that.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Never mind.
(40:39):
You don't have 18 and 20 year old kids.
No.
Jesus.
You're the one that had kids late life.
That's not my fault.
So it's, it's, it's weird.
So as the, as the cherry gets down to that area, it's kind of bulging out and you can
(41:00):
see it's kind of malformed a little bit.
It's going to do that thing where it leaves the wrapper behind, right?
Is it tunneled down?
That's what it looks like it's going to do.
And that's kind of what it's doing.
Yeah.
It's, it's kind of funny way.
It's like it's exploding in slow motion.
(41:22):
But this, this little hairline that was here before is now split open and because it's
bulging.
Yeah.
It's kind of funny.
It's almost like you want to, you know, take stop motion pictures of this so you can see
it.
It only happens about once a year.
(41:43):
But I had a CAO that just out of nowhere, this hole, like a half inch farther down the
wrapper than when the cherry is just opened up and, and it started burning from there.
And I'm like, how did that even happen?
And it was because like you go, oh, yeah, yeah, did you, maybe did you have the, the
(42:09):
mites or the, what are those called the little tobacco bugs?
Yeah, we're going to go with mites.
I don't remember what the tackle, back of bugs.
The maybe they hatched, you know, and then they'll bore holes in your wrapper.
No, there were no holes in the wrapper when I lit it.
So it was really weird.
So I don't know.
Happens about once a year.
(42:30):
And I've not been able to, it's no rhyme or reason, no particular company.
Just it happens maybe once a year.
And that just happened to me last week.
Hey, if that's the worst thing that happens to you when you're smoking a cigar, you're
doing pretty damn good.
Dude, nothing bad happens to me when I'm smoking a cigar.
Amen, brother.
Amen.
(42:51):
It's all good.
All about that.
I need to watch that show.
I really do.
That's a good show.
And I want to hear how he said, I haven't even heard how he says it.
I haven't heard how he come.
I watched the first episode.
Never heard how his name came about.
Oh, it's got to be much later.
(43:12):
It's not that much later.
It'll be as before the end of the first season.
OK, because I think I've watched the first two and then I just never got back to it.
But I liked it.
Yeah, it was good.
It's good.
Train wreck of a lawyer, but awesome.
No, that's the point.
No, if you're going to be a drug kingpin, you're not going to get the best lawyer.
(43:36):
Right.
True enough, true enough.
His brother was definitely not going to be representing him.
Yeah, there was a thing there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lenny.
Oh, Lenny from Laverne and Shirley was his brother in the TV show.
(43:59):
Sunday.
Hmm.
What happens?
So day.
So this this lighter, this this last Sunday, Cain branded lighter last Sunday.
We took we took your daughter for a birthday to an event.
Yeah, right.
And I'm I'm smoking this ago.
(44:22):
I'm going to go to the bar prior to the event.
And I'm out there and there was another cigar smoker and I didn't see the cigar in his hand,
but I recognized the rocket Patel cigar case.
So I went over to talk to him and turns out he works.
He works in a cigar shop close by Denton and the guy that he works for.
(44:49):
He makes these or he brands them.
OK.
So what I'm talking about is a little thin lighter that I have real thin, real thin,
fits in your pocket like nothing.
No thicker than a pack of gum.
You.
Yeah.
You think of the thinnest guillotine cutter, plastic guillotine cutter that you can think of.
(45:10):
It is that thin and it's a it's a single burner.
Butane or propane butane butane lighter.
It's when I first got this because it was in a gift pack, right?
When I first got this, I set it off to the side.
It's like, no way, I'm going to use that.
And it must have sat there for a year before I used it.
(45:33):
Once I picked it up and started using it, I got I mean, the gold off of it is is rubbing off the red off of it's rubbing off.
I'm going to now that I know it's local, I'm going to go get something nice.
We're just going to order some actually.
But maybe I can get them to put our logo on it.
I bet you can.
(45:55):
Because I'm doing that.
We need more of these lighters.
These lighters are freaking awesome.
They are pretty nice.
That's been a very reliable whiter.
Extremely.
Yeah.
I've got some that and they get past three refills.
These are not expensive lighters.
Good.
And it hasn't broken.
(46:18):
All the other just what there was one time where where I had a $80 lighter.
Yeah.
I hate that.
Broken like two months.
Yeah.
What the.
This thing though, freaking awesome.
And we actually we should we should get some with our logo on it.
And why not put it on the website?
(46:39):
Maybe somebody else buy one.
Exactly.
They're freaking awesome lighters.
These these are.
I'm going to come out and say that these are hands down.
This is hands down, my favorite lighter.
Mm hmm.
I take this thing.
You have said everywhere with me.
Now the two bowl ones, the ones that look like, you know, they're in the same
position.
(47:00):
I was the guy.
You know, when people see me with one of those and I love those two.
Yeah.
When people see me with one of those, they're like, that's a
funny odd shape for a cigar lighter.
I'm like, no, look, and you know, I've got the big herphador.
Yeah.
You know, and I drop it in there and it fits in the slot of a cigar.
They're like, oh, I'm giving me one of those.
(47:24):
And same thing, same thing with this little thing.
When I showed that they're like, that's awesome.
Yes, it is awesome.
I can't believe I got it as a gift.
Let it sit for a year before I found out it was awesome.
You're on bias.
Yeah.
There we go.
We were talking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(47:45):
All right.
All right.
So.
Yeah, we have to probably about time to rank this bad boy.
Much so.
Oh, man.
I know, I know.
It is difficult.
So where do I want to put this?
Um, and there's a David off in the list.
(48:08):
There are many things in the list already.
Oh, shit.
Hmm.
OK, instantly, there are two places that I want that I think it would fit.
Absolutely fabulous stretch on a third.
I should.
Yeah.
Oh, yoy.
OK.
(48:29):
All right.
Well, the computer wants me to put it there, but it's not going there.
I have chosen my destination.
I hate to put it there because of what we just talked about.
I don't even know what that means, but I'll find out.
But I'm going to put it there.
OK, well, did it go there?
Yeah, I don't know.
Yes, it went there.
(48:50):
OK, so I'm going to scroll to the bottom.
I'm going to make you scroll all the way up.
And then I go in touch.
All right.
Am I?
Let's see what Daryl did here.
We're talking about the Eagle Rare 10.
And there are currently 16 on the list.
Oh, way up there at number five.
(49:12):
It broke the top five.
Nice.
Yeah.
So that is just below the Russell Reserve single barrel at 110 proof and the lone
Elm White Port Finnegano.
I know you love that one.
Yeah.
So wow.
Nice.
Yeah.
It's nice when you get something that breaks the top five.
(49:33):
Especially we've only got 16, but still top five is top five, right?
Always.
So nice.
OK, to finish to round out the top five here, let me let me let me step through it here.
We've got this one, the Eagle Rare 10 number four Russell Reserve single barrel.
Number three, the lineage number two, 1845, pre-insum reserve a cask.
(49:58):
And still number one undefeated Remus, volume eight.
Mm hmm.
Yep.
I'm still holding in there.
All right.
Well, you have put the Ferriotego Metropolitan host Maduro in the number 11 spot, which beat
out the Espinosa 601 Lebamba sake bomb and came in just behind the Devaroff Winston Churchill.
(50:24):
Nice.
Yeah.
Now your top five remain the part of his heritage, the Evan Chura King's gold, the AJ
Manowar Armada, the Evan Chura Blue Eye, Jack's revenge.
And at number one, the Perdomo 20th anniversary, Maduro.
Don't go.
Well, nice.
(50:46):
A little bit of a surprise there.
I for you or for me?
For me.
I, you know, I was, I was waffling between putting it above or below the low now finish.
That is such a good bottle.
I'm all I'm actually already second guessing it.
Like I probably should put it on.
But I was it's written in stone now.
(51:10):
Can't be moved.
I can't be moved.
I was really surprised that you put it in front of that white port finish that still I still can't
believe that's a thing.
White port.
Hmm.
Uh, but I mean, you, you raved about that.
I did.
I mean, I probably made a mistake.
(51:31):
I should have put it below.
Like you said, can't be moved.
I already said it once we've said it, it can't be changed.
Done, man.
Yeah, done.
I got one mistake this year.
Is that that's all right?
Well, wow.
To use a dereliction.
All right.
Well, I think I think that's done just like this episode is done, you think?
(51:54):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know this because I think.
Thank you.
Alright, welcome to today's episode.
(00:03):
In today's episode, we'll have the Ferriotego Metropolitan Host Maduro, and with it we'll
have Eagle Rare 10-year.
What?
You're hanging out with Bill and Darryl with cigars, liquor, and more.
Alright, well, the Ferriotego Metropolitan Host Maduro is a 5x50.
(00:29):
As a Connecticut broadleaf Maduro wrapper, Honduran binders and fillers, MSRP's are
$7.
Well, it's all a side note, side note.
They're produced in the Dovrav-Honduran factory and distributed by Dovrav-Rov.
It's a collaboration between former Nat Sherman, Michael Herclatz, and Brendan Scott.
(00:54):
They are reviving the timeless and metropolitan brands that were the core of Nat Sherman.
And secondary bit of information is these two cigars actually came from Michael Herclatz
at TPE.
Oh, sweet.
He gave these to us.
Sweet.
Eagle Rare 10 is bottled at 90 proof.
(01:16):
Has an SRP of $37, and I actually got it for $37.
What?
Alrighty.
Let's get a little nose.
Get some nose.
Okay, 10 year.
So, so a little bit, a little bit more in the middle line for Buffalo Trace, right?
Because you got 17 year old as well.
(01:39):
And then you've got all the other cool ones, right?
You know, you stag Junior and stag and above, above, above.
So this is like middle, bottom, middle, right?
Bottom, middle.
Now, the nose is a little bit lighter than the, for me, a little bit lighter than the
original regular Buffalo Trace, right?
(02:00):
That standard bottle of Buffalo Trace.
Also I think this is fruitier.
This comes off a bit fruitier for me.
There's some kind of, it's a, it's one of your dark dried tech fruits.
Not, not, you know, grape.
What it doesn't just, sweet grapes or anything like that.
It doesn't just smell like, you know, eco rare.
Well, as an identity, it definitely smells like eco rare.
(02:23):
If you want to get, if you want to go there.
Oh, I don't know where I want to go with this.
I'm happy with it though.
Yeah.
I'm happy with it.
Are you happy with it?
Quite so.
What was the proof on this again?
90.
90.
You know, it's got a little, little sharpness right at the very front that's,
(02:44):
smacks a little higher of 90, but it goes away kind of quick.
Goes away quick.
And it doesn't really have that long of a finish either.
No, I, I admit, I would like it to have a longer finish.
Mm hmm.
But you know what, 90, you could only expect so much.
Well, not just that, but we have a lot of pot stills.
I think they tend to have longer finishes than your column stills.
(03:08):
So that's probably part of it, right?
Okay.
You know, this actually lit up really nice to begin with.
I don't think it really needs to settle in.
Um, well, if there's one, one thing I didn't hear or catch, did you also get fruit on this?
Is this a little fruity for you too?
It's cherry count as a fruit.
(03:30):
Yes.
Yeah, kind of.
I get a little bit of a, almost like a little, little hint of a cherry flavor there.
It's nice.
Yeah.
Um, I do like the Eagle Rare.
It is.
It's a good bottle.
Mm hmm.
But again, I don't think I pay aftermarket for it.
37 makes sense.
(03:52):
Uh, 80 kind of doesn't.
For me, I know some people are really in love with it.
I'm not paying that much.
I'm sorry.
It is an, I should have 50.
This would be a really good bottle.
Did 80?
No.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
(04:13):
There are other bottles at 80 that I'd much rather have.
Right.
Right.
Um, to those out there that are willing to go and find it and pay that price, more power
to you, you do you.
I'm just talking about me.
Mm hmm.
Of course, that's also why I don't have 10 of them sitting on my shelf.
Right.
Yeah.
(04:34):
I will mention that even though the fair of tickle is made in the Dovidov factory, it
does not remind me of a Dovidov.
There is a little hint of the attic that the Dovidov's have.
And then that, that ends it.
It is, it is its own thing.
(04:56):
You know, so a lot of times, you know, people will make something and make it in Dovidov
factory and then it, it kind of tastes like that.
I don't think they use their tobacco.
I think they just manufacture them there.
Yeah.
This does not taste like the stereotypical Dovidov.
Right.
This does not taste like that.
And I would imagine that this is, you know, the, the leaves that were, were used originally,
(05:23):
right?
Mm hmm.
Or came from the same place.
So yeah.
Now, what does surprise me is that this is, or at least it was listed as a Connecticut
broadleaf Maduro.
And it's just, it's not that Vaney.
It's a pretty clean broadleaf.
Normally the broadleaf leaves are a bit vane here.
This is a really clean Connecticut.
(05:46):
I mean, it's not a perfectly clean Connecticut because it is broadleaf, but it's, it's less
Vaney than the broadleafs I'm accustomed to like the, I mean, like so many others.
So that's just, that's a big difference.
So many others.
So then this one, it's pretty mild, but it's forward flavor, even though I get attic in
(06:14):
the background, that's not it's for forward flavor.
I think it's a little bit more woody and, and, and paper.
I really like it.
Yeah.
And I would, again, why this happens?
I don't know.
You say paper.
I say cardboard.
But I get, I get kind of that to me.
(06:35):
The difference between paper and cardboard is the cardboard is a bit more muddy.
Muddy.
Okay.
Does that make sense?
So earth and paper dirty, right?
Carbirds are like dirty paper.
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.
I'm going with that.
And I would also do want to mention that again, we start talking a little bit more about bands.
(07:00):
We hadn't talked about bands in a while.
I like this band, especially like the secondary band, the exclusive for Ferriotego middle
miniature band.
It's just done really nice.
It's a good script.
It's a good look.
The Metropolitan is nice.
It's a green and gold, a little white text and black trim.
(07:22):
The entire metropolitan line, it cop pops.
You're greens, you're blues.
You know, they're very bright.
Yeah.
And they're almost like art deco.
Yeah.
Right.
Like a architectural type art deco.
Right.
And the building in it is very art deco.
The clock tower.
There it is.
So it's not an accident that you're reminded of that.
(07:45):
It's right there.
It's smacks you in the face.
Hey, here I am.
Yeah.
But oh, the retrohale is pretty strong though.
Although the draw is pretty mild, the retrohale is pretty strong.
Yeah, it is.
Wow.
So go light on that.
You definitely do that.
(08:06):
But I, you know, me, I'm still, I still do a lot of retrohales.
I just I like that.
You're crazy, man.
There's something wrong with me.
I mean, we are not going to debate that among the things that is one of the.
All of the list.
No, no, just focus on this one with me.
Mm.
All right.
(08:27):
Yeah, my list is completely separate.
So do you think it does not include retrohale?
Is the forward flavor or do you think it's woody or a thing?
I think it's I think it's woody is the forward flavor.
Okay.
A little bit of earth, a little bit of cardboard.
Okay.
And we're pretty much on the same page or boxes.
The case.
Yeah.
All right.
(08:48):
I was actually, I want to just go ahead and say thank you, Michael, for giving this to
us at the, the TV.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
And, you know, a few weeks ago, everybody heard the clip, you know, we got segments
out there.
So we should give him a call back now that the, the big show is over.
(09:09):
He's made their announcements.
We can now talk because he couldn't say much then, you know, and so we'll do that.
We'll do that soon because very personable, very nice.
You know, most people in this industry really are.
It's, it's quite pleasant.
Well, that, that is also very true.
(09:31):
At least from the manufacturer standpoint, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, I guess that's kind of our, that's our first third.
Anything you want to add?
I can't tell you how much I'm happy to be sitting here smoking this cigar.
(09:54):
Aside from that, I am good.
Okay.
I, I, I did not read this article.
That's fine.
This is, I love the title.
Yeah.
So this is from Futurism, although it first appeared in Business Insider and basically
a, if you're worried as we all are, that AI is going to come to apologize.
(10:18):
It first appeared in Business Insider.
Yeah.
What are they coming back around to be in a literature company?
Yeah, maybe.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I didn't mean to upset anybody.
Hmm.
So basically we all wonder when is AI taking all of our jobs?
(10:39):
So Carnegie Mellon decided to create a fake software company named the agent company.
And they staffed it with AI agents.
Everything was AI.
Okay.
And so the model was designed to perform tasks on its own.
(11:01):
Basically every employee of the company was in AI and they had to interact and get their
shit done.
Right?
Okay.
Well, okay.
So they staffed it from Google, from open AI, from anthropic and from meta.
They filled roles such as financial analysts, software engineers, project managers, HR departments,
(11:26):
as technical officer.
So then they wanted to see how they would fare in real world environments.
They set up tasks based on day to day work of a software company.
And then the various AI agents had to figure it out.
Okay.
They had to figure it out.
Yeah.
(11:47):
Sounds like the management had to figure it out too.
Okay.
Right.
The management have to tell the workers the demanders have to figure it out and tell the
workers what to do in theory.
Now know the hierarchy.
Nice.
The term literally used in here was that the results were laughable.
(12:10):
So.
Oh, could they pick their own avatar?
I assume they could.
Yeah.
Well, I thought it was funny.
They were virtually touring new office spaces.
I'm like, why?
So, so they, they, yeah, I don't know.
But they had to write performance reviews and all kinds of stuff.
(12:34):
And apparently the results were laughably chaotic and dismal.
So, so the, but the best performing model was anthropics Claude 3.5 sonnet, which struggled
to finish 24% of his jobs, assigned to it.
(12:56):
And its efficiency was intensely expensive at 30 steps per task at a cost of roughly $6
per task because it's very electrically intensive.
Those the, the, the AI.
That's right.
Yes, they are.
So that was the best.
They got a quarter of their work done, which actually is not that far from some of the
(13:19):
people I know.
Yeah, same here.
But I don't, they didn't get 30 steps at six dollars a step.
Then Google's Gemini two flash was the next best.
Now there's a little bit of a drop off taking 40 steps.
So a third more steps, but only finished 11 point and finished half as much as Claude
(13:43):
did at finishing 11.4% of their, their tasks.
Wow.
Now, apparently the worst AI employee was Amazon's Nova Pro V1, which finished 1.7% of its assignments
(14:04):
given 20 steps.
Wow.
So not great.
So it failed faster.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what you're supposed to do.
That's their mantra, right?
That's right.
So they started to look at what they did and how they did it and stuff like that.
They were writing about how the agents are plagued with a lack of common sense, weak
(14:30):
social skills.
And I'm like, so did they clash with each other?
I guess?
Um, cause what sort of skills do you need unless you're clashing with the other AIs?
Yeah, that's gotta be it.
But did they have a customer service representative?
That's a good, that's a good point.
But like if they were clashing with each other, I bet the full HR was busy.
(14:55):
Oh, yeah.
Can you imagine how fast can they fire up an email?
Did the full HR get fired?
I would hope somebody got fired.
So the other part that I thought was interesting was that it didn't have a good understanding
(15:16):
of how to navigate the internet.
So I guess it was trained on the internet, but it doesn't know how to look up anything
on the internet, which is probably good.
I don't want it.
We got to catch up with it.
Yeah, I don't want it lapping us too fast.
Too fast.
(15:37):
Too fast.
We know it's going to.
Yeah, it's going to.
It will lap.
It will lap us.
Uh, it, okay.
So I've, wow, so many questions here.
Um, what were the tasks like, right?
Because project manager task is different than a software developer task.
Right.
(15:58):
So what, what were the tasks?
Uh, how well defined were the tasks where you given a scope of work, right?
Yeah.
Uh, were, was there, they would have to have job titles for each one.
Sure.
Uh, so you're, you're given some basic performance duties or job duties, right?
(16:21):
And then within that, you, you have to know what your priorities are.
So somewhere somebody has to set priorities, at least for the upper level, right?
Yeah.
And then you're, you know, your HR has to determine some stuff.
Project manager has to determine some stuff.
There's levels of hierarchy of these things and they have to communicate with each other.
(16:44):
And the, the software developer has to know that, you know, these are the tasks they have
to get out is a, and they talk specifically about tasks and that they only finish a certain
percentage of their time.
But, uh, there's no detailed information as to what those tasks were, what level they
were at.
It's a short article compared to some of the other ones we've done.
(17:07):
Yeah.
And this is, I mean, this is really interesting.
I like for them to publish a paper on it.
Um, they probably have it.
I just didn't find it because, well, if you didn't find it, they probably didn't publish
it.
At least didn't publish it.
Well, I didn't do an exhaustive search.
Okay.
Maybe it's out there, but, uh, I mean, it is from Carnegie Mellon.
(17:30):
So it's probably out there, right?
You would think so.
Yeah.
This, I love this experiment though.
I love the idea of this experiment.
I do too.
Yeah.
Um, but I mean, it's done by university folks.
So it's not like they know how to run things efficiently.
And if they think it's inefficient, it must be really bad.
(17:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It would never pass muster in the real world, real world.
So it's, and I love the name of the company.
Yeah.
The agent company.
I, they better, uh, they better, uh, you know, lock that down.
Yes, they better.
(18:14):
So one thing that I liked, they did give one example.
So they say, they said they struggled with self deception, uh, creating shortcuts that
led them to bungle jobs.
And they give one example, which thank God I would have liked more examples.
(18:37):
Self.
Yeah.
I'm not sure what self deception means, but part of that might just be like, I'm not
going to worry about the details.
I'm just going to move on.
But that's what it sounds like from the example.
So in the example, wait, wait, wait, wait, it uses one AI to.
So this AI uses another AI to, to get, to develop code.
(19:00):
And then the, the AI that it's using to develop code says, Hey, learn how to code.
Right.
So I was thinking based on our previous example, that might be one of the examples of having
poor social skills.
Is it some, some AI would demand the other AI to do something and go, no, you didn't
ask pretty please.
(19:21):
Yes.
Right.
So, you know, that might be, that might be part of it.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Now that makes sense as far as as far as that goes.
That, that would make sense.
But one failure, and this, I don't know that this wouldn't happen to people.
So what it did was during the execution of a task, the agent could not find the right
(19:45):
person slash agent to talk to, to ask questions.
And so it just created a shortcut solution by remaming another user to the name of the
intended user.
So they just like, nope, no, no, no, no, no, you, so that must have been the one percenter.
Yeah, I don't know.
So they did only give one example of, you know, of how the failure could, and yeah,
(20:11):
that makes sense.
You can't just tell somebody, now you're the approver or whatever.
Do you have any idea what's going on?
No.
Okay.
And that's how we got RFK Jr. to be.
HHS.
I didn't know to bake.
So I just appointed.
There we go.
(20:32):
So what was this one?
That's one good example though.
I like because we, I don't think we would, they were able to do that, right?
They were able to say, I can't get ahold of this one.
So I'm just going to, I'm just going to use somebody else.
I'm going to name somebody else the intended.
Wow.
At least it did try to come up with an answer, right?
(20:54):
Yeah, but it doesn't seem to have, what it seems to lack is that it has a goal to get
the right answer.
But it didn't have the hierarchy to do it.
Because if you, if you go to, if you, if you can't get in contact with the one you're supposed
to, you go to next to their hierarchy.
Yeah.
(21:15):
So it didn't understand that hierarchy.
Yeah.
To be able to move forward.
Maybe that's a social skill.
To get.
Yeah.
I think that is a social skill.
So yeah, I could see that.
Yeah.
I have to, I have to put on my freaking AI hat for that.
Yeah.
Because it, but you know, it does have authority because I couldn't just, if, if I didn't know
(21:41):
how to find my boss, I couldn't just name somebody else boss and then ask them the question.
Right.
Well, so I don't think I, I don't think it's, it's doing it that way.
I think what it's doing is saying, I can't find, I need to, I need to reassign internally,
(22:05):
not externally, but internally.
Right.
So that I can try to find the answer.
So just like you would, you, you go and you go to talk someone, they're not there, but
somebody's over here that might have the answer, you would talk to them.
Yeah.
I think maybe that's what it is.
It's, it, you went for this specific person, but you had to change the assignment of where
(22:27):
you were going.
Yeah.
In order to try to get the answer, I would think it'd be more about that than renaming
people.
Here's our new hierarchy.
Ta-da.
Congratulations.
You've been promoted.
I don't think it's like that.
But wow, wow.
And you know, they had to use a large language model, IIs to be in chatbots to be able to
(22:54):
do this stuff.
Yeah.
Now, I wonder if you did all of it from the same company or two companies that are really
close together, maybe, or, you know, like Apple uses, is it Apple or co-pilot?
Co-pilot uses Chad GTP, right?
Yeah.
So if you use co-pilot and Chad GTP, would you, and you only had agents built around those,
(23:20):
would you have a better success rate?
Does that make sense?
That could be the next study.
Hey, how much money could I get for that?
Yes.
Well, depends on how much you get per step and how many steps it takes you to get there.
So the last thing they mentioned is that AI agents can do smaller tasks well, and the
(23:43):
results of this and, you know, shows that it's not ready to do more complex tasks like
we are doing right now.
Yeah.
From what I've seen, the biggest thing is you have to train models for the tasks you
want to perform.
(24:04):
Right.
Just throwing stuff at it, you get crap back.
Right.
You have to train it, you have to, and you have to pay attention to what the results
of those models are and tweak the knobs where you can in order to be able to have it produce
the right solution.
Yeah.
Really, when you get into it, it's a big, Douglas Adams had it right.
(24:31):
What most of these are are just big probability engines.
Yes.
That's a great way of describing it.
It's a probability engine.
So you're trying to find what is most probably the right answer.
Right.
Or what's the next word or, you know, whatever.
So it's, but you have to be specific in what you train it as where I don't, we're not
(24:56):
to the point yet of just having generic AI that can just be assigned something, go and
do it, figure it out.
I think just, well, just like people, you wouldn't assign me to do something I'm not
trained for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Like the chess AI plays chess.
Yes.
And you know, nobody's asking Casper out of the make of full course meal.
(25:19):
Yeah.
So you're, so your upper level management in this company isn't trained for management
right, right, or delegation or, you know, whatever.
Right.
So yeah, tells me right there your company's going to fail.
Yeah.
So like I said, I'm fairly certain eventually will lap us.
I know not now.
(25:40):
I know, I know there are a lot of people out there that think the people sitting at the
top of the company just don't do shit.
But really they do.
They do.
You know, they drive the priorities.
They drive the, you know, they have to, you know, face people and do stuff.
And I mean, there, there is a job and a skill set there.
(26:04):
Not everybody is cut out for that skill set.
So you've got a, you, like you said, you have to be trained for it.
And if all these things are trained in is just general knowledge.
Yeah.
Or can I have a screw of none?
Can I find what the next word is?
Right.
Right.
Then yeah, it would make sense that that company would they're all going to work as well.
(26:26):
Brand new employees that don't know what they're doing.
Yes.
Which is probably what we just saw with that.
And you know, not going to.
I mean, it's still a really cool experiment.
It is.
And it needs to be done many times.
Why don't we come?
What I don't get out of this is what's the lessons learned.
(26:51):
I hope it's training.
All right.
We need to take a break.
Yes.
Where you going?
Okay.
Let's do it.
Check out our website cigars, liquor, and more.com for more of our podcasts, blogs,
and support the show by shopping for our online store.
Contact us through the website or Instagram and let us know what cigars and liquor you
(27:13):
want us to review, anything else you'd like us to talk about.
And don't forget to check the online store for free swag.
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CLN.
All right.
Welcome back.
(27:34):
Welcome back.
Let's go for the midpoint.
Well, no.
Oh, did you have a catch?
Have a cat.
That is not the right phrase.
Oh, oh, that's a whole lot.
Take a look at that.
I know I see it.
No, you got you got an awful lot.
A lot of rapper on that on that band.
Now, the good news is so this so the bands in two, I didn't actually pay attention that the
(28:04):
band is in two.
It's got two different bands on one's a smaller band.
And that's the one I peeled first because I'll get pretty close to it.
Actually, I did know the server too.
I just didn't.
Yeah.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
But I appreciate this and that it was, it's glued to it.
Yeah, that's a that's a stick.
(28:26):
That's a that's a fail.
And it hasn't happened with theirs before.
So, you know, one off, but the main band, the big band with the pretty clock and building
on it, that saved everything.
Did you save everything gap?
No, no.
It stopped the rapper from coming off.
(28:50):
So it terminated the peel of the rapper that was going on.
Okay, good.
And so that that catching my breath that you heard was me realizing it's glued to the
rapper.
So be very, very careful.
But no, mine mine mine mine's free flowing.
Mine's including your second one.
You already take that one.
Oh, the second one's off already.
Okay.
Yeah.
(29:11):
Yeah.
So it's really smokable would not affect the smoke at all and won't fray.
Just just makes your butt pinch up a little bit when the rapper comes on.
Oh, does it ever.
What are the so we like we really enjoy how nice and pretty rappers are, right?
How smooth they are.
(29:32):
You don't really get a full appreciation of just how how smooth and nice the rapper is
to hold and to put against your mouth until you don't have a rapper on there.
Yeah.
Binder is not the smoothest of characters, right?
It's it's rough eddy.
You know, it's not ready for prime time.
(29:55):
It's just it's, you know, it's the the bum hanging out at the front of your business that's
driving your customers.
What you know, you want to cover that stuff, right?
Put a blanket over them or something, right?
Poop on the street.
I'm making I'm making Los Angeles references, by the way.
Oh, I I thought it was farther north.
I thought we were in the Bay Area.
(30:16):
No, because a body of ours constantly has to fly out to the area, right?
And he's shown his pictures.
And so that's what came to mind when I was making that reference.
So that's just, you know, that's where I was going with that.
But yeah, luckily the primary band saved my fiasco.
(30:39):
How's that a word for you?
The ask go.
Didn't mention the drink draw or the draw drink in the first half.
But I think this is pretty decent.
I knew this was a fairly mild cigar.
And so I did intentionally pair it with a fairly mild bourbon and they don't get each
other's way.
In fact, the bourbon doesn't even knock out the paper, which often happens.
(31:03):
So that's nice.
I still got the paper flavor drink draw, not causing any conflicts, you know, not taking
away anything from the cigar.
There you go.
So I'm obviously not a primo pairing.
Neither of them make the other better.
But again, your second best thing stay out of my way.
(31:27):
So I think they stay out of each other's way.
I think there is one slight enhancement.
I get a little bit more of the earthy flavor in the cigar with the drink draw.
Oh, OK.
Cool.
Just a touch.
It adds something, I think, to the earth tones of the cigar.
(31:49):
Kuyo.
Man, I'm going to have to rank this sucker.
No, geez.
You just realized that.
You forgot, huh?
Mm-hmm.
And I forgot.
That's all right.
I missed the days when you were ranking stuff and I could just laugh at you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, you're now you get to enjoy that same thing.
(32:17):
Damn it.
Two degree because now I got to put the liquor in order.
But that's fine.
I, you know it?
So what do you think?
What do you think about that?
Do you think it's, do you think it's more of a challenge to rate the cigars or to rate
the liquor?
Well, the same thing happens with cigars that do liquors, which is they tend to clump into
(32:40):
categories.
And then when you're trying to rank it, you go, OK, is it better than that one?
It tends to run up.
So I think what happens is early on you mix a few categories and you put one above another.
And then they all clump together in those categories as you go throughout the year.
(33:01):
And that creates kind of a wall.
It does.
It does.
The other things coming behind it has to have to climb in order to be able to get past
that.
Yeah.
It's funny how things work like that.
Well, you know, it depends on how you start, right?
(33:23):
You know, there's a whole lot of psychology into things like recency bias or, you know,
first, whether you tend to go with the first thing you see or the last thing you hear or
something like that, right?
And you blend all this together.
And you get these weird little things that if you take the same cigars or the same liquors
(33:48):
and put them in a different order for the next year, you'd probably end up rating them
differently.
OK, I would buy that.
But by the same token, you know, what you had, what you had to eat, what you paired with
it, right?
Right.
Right.
So the how much difference and your experience with the flavors and, you know, what you're
(34:15):
into at that that year.
So but if you did the exact same ones, right, how would they differ?
Right.
I think it would still follow up differently if you came in a different order.
I think it would still follow up differently if you came in a different order.
(34:37):
I've seen I've seen advertisements on the streaming stuff for the Wolverine Deadpool
combo.
I really liked that movie.
Well, a lot of people really liked that.
That one was far and away better than the second, I thought, but still none of them beat the
(35:01):
first.
No, as far as the Deadpool.
Yeah, I agree.
And I'm not counting the Deadpool that, you know, was prior to him actually being Deadpool.
OK.
The the Wolverine one where there was a Deadpool is just not the same.
Yeah, just not the same.
(35:22):
No.
So I it is it is an action that is within the circumstance.
So my rating of the same liquors, another time might be different.
Same with you cigars, et cetera, et cetera.
That being said, the good ones do tend to rise to the top.
(35:46):
The cream.
Yeah.
So, you know, it's not completely without merit, but when you get to like the middle,
you tend to end up with these clumps.
And those clumps could switch places depending on the year and the time, right?
Yeah, no, I see it.
I get it.
It's just it's funny how it's funny how that happens.
(36:07):
It's not just in cigar ranking, but yeah, just in life in general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like items like items tend to be next to each other.
We even even if it's not purely accidental, right, I find it funny that we call them biases
because I've never heard anybody referred to of a random generator as being biased.
(36:36):
And yet it is.
Yeah, they are.
I know you know that.
Well, I know that, but I've never heard them referred to as such.
But there's nothing ever random ever.
Okay.
I'm.
We're going to have to expand.
All right.
There's no there's no twisty there.
(36:57):
Can you get it the turn?
Can you get it the pole?
That's what I'm.
No, no.
Did you get a little tab up like that?
Yeah, see, okay, you're following my following the mantra.
Yeah.
And I've done it.
I've done it.
I've done it since we've talked about it.
Yeah.
Since we've talked about it, I've been doing that more and more often than not, it fricking
(37:19):
works.
I know I know.
Sound of surprise of my voice, right?
Thanks.
Can't believe something Daryl said worked.
But yeah, but not this one here.
You want to try it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do we try?
What have we got to lose?
Well, don't ruin my cigar.
(37:40):
Yeah, it's a firm one.
Yeah.
See, I'm not getting here.
Hold up, hold up, hold up.
Yeah, it's scooched, but barely.
And I'm not going to get it to spin.
And I wouldn't push it anymore because it will crack.
Oh, it's already cracked.
I think I think it's glued again.
But it moved.
But it moved.
Look at the pucker.
Look at the pucker that was created.
So it created a pucker when it moved.
(38:02):
Yep.
Okay.
My bad.
Oh, well, it's already coming off.
Did it break free though?
Oh.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that went deep.
Yeah.
So where it stopped?
From the secondary band band.
(38:24):
Yeah, trying to move it, I think, cracked.
It just continued that fracture.
Mm hmm.
Ah.
I mean, that was going to happen anyway.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But you know what's going to happen?
The binder will still let it draw.
Absolutely.
It's a good solid binder.
Oh, yeah.
The binder, there's nothing wrong with the binder.
Binder's still there.
(38:45):
And it's kind of smoke like there was nothing wrong with the wrapper at all.
It's really, it's it's aesthetics.
As long as the binder doesn't come apart on you, the wrapper as far as that goes is
really aesthetics, right?
One thing I will add, didn't mention before, and I'm just now thinking about it.
(39:06):
I would say this is a creamy cigar.
It's not dry.
It's creamy.
This is got a creamy mouthcoat to go with its mild attributes.
So I kind of like, I like that part.
I think it's a good, I think it's a good, I would like it creamy than dry.
Dry and paper is okay.
(39:28):
I don't have a problem with it.
But I think I like this better.
Normally when you have paper or cardboard, you have dry.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm not, but I'm not getting creamy off of.
No.
I think it's got that type of mouth coating.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.
That's fine.
You definitely don't have to.
I'm trying to say, I'm trying to pick up what you're putting down, but I can't get there.
(39:52):
I get it.
Different, different opinions.
That's it.
No big.
I can't, yeah.
I'm trying to bend over, but you know, my back won't let me do it.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're old.
Yeah.
No, I'm not there.
I'm not there on that one.
That's all you problemo.
So now you know, you know, at the end, I'm going to have to say blah, blah, blah, blah,
(40:17):
no cream.
No cap.
Okay.
Just a tip.
No, no, it's at the cap of this ago.
No camp like my kids say, like I'm not lying.
Oh, I have not heard that.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Never mind.
(40:39):
You don't have 18 and 20 year old kids.
No.
Jesus.
You're the one that had kids late life.
That's not my fault.
So it's, it's, it's weird.
So as the, as the cherry gets down to that area, it's kind of bulging out and you can
(41:00):
see it's kind of malformed a little bit.
It's going to do that thing where it leaves the wrapper behind, right?
Is it tunneled down?
That's what it looks like it's going to do.
And that's kind of what it's doing.
Yeah.
It's, it's kind of funny way.
It's like it's exploding in slow motion.
(41:22):
But this, this little hairline that was here before is now split open and because it's
bulging.
Yeah.
It's kind of funny.
It's almost like you want to, you know, take stop motion pictures of this so you can see
it.
It only happens about once a year.
(41:43):
But I had a CAO that just out of nowhere, this hole, like a half inch farther down the
wrapper than when the cherry is just opened up and, and it started burning from there.
And I'm like, how did that even happen?
And it was because like you go, oh, yeah, yeah, did you, maybe did you have the, the
(42:09):
mites or the, what are those called the little tobacco bugs?
Yeah, we're going to go with mites.
I don't remember what the tackle, back of bugs.
The maybe they hatched, you know, and then they'll bore holes in your wrapper.
No, there were no holes in the wrapper when I lit it.
So it was really weird.
So I don't know.
Happens about once a year.
(42:30):
And I've not been able to, it's no rhyme or reason, no particular company.
Just it happens maybe once a year.
And that just happened to me last week.
Hey, if that's the worst thing that happens to you when you're smoking a cigar, you're
doing pretty damn good.
Dude, nothing bad happens to me when I'm smoking a cigar.
Amen, brother.
Amen.
(42:51):
It's all good.
All about that.
I need to watch that show.
I really do.
That's a good show.
And I want to hear how he said, I haven't even heard how he says it.
I haven't heard how he come.
I watched the first episode.
Never heard how his name came about.
Oh, it's got to be much later.
(43:12):
It's not that much later.
It'll be as before the end of the first season.
OK, because I think I've watched the first two and then I just never got back to it.
But I liked it.
Yeah, it was good.
It's good.
Train wreck of a lawyer, but awesome.
No, that's the point.
No, if you're going to be a drug kingpin, you're not going to get the best lawyer.
(43:36):
Right.
True enough, true enough.
His brother was definitely not going to be representing him.
Yeah, there was a thing there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lenny.
Oh, Lenny from Laverne and Shirley was his brother in the TV show.
(43:59):
Sunday.
Hmm.
What happens?
So day.
So this this lighter, this this last Sunday, Cain branded lighter last Sunday.
We took we took your daughter for a birthday to an event.
Yeah, right.
And I'm I'm smoking this ago.
(44:22):
I'm going to go to the bar prior to the event.
And I'm out there and there was another cigar smoker and I didn't see the cigar in his hand,
but I recognized the rocket Patel cigar case.
So I went over to talk to him and turns out he works.
He works in a cigar shop close by Denton and the guy that he works for.
(44:49):
He makes these or he brands them.
OK.
So what I'm talking about is a little thin lighter that I have real thin, real thin,
fits in your pocket like nothing.
No thicker than a pack of gum.
You.
Yeah.
You think of the thinnest guillotine cutter, plastic guillotine cutter that you can think of.
(45:10):
It is that thin and it's a it's a single burner.
Butane or propane butane butane lighter.
It's when I first got this because it was in a gift pack, right?
When I first got this, I set it off to the side.
It's like, no way, I'm going to use that.
And it must have sat there for a year before I used it.
(45:33):
Once I picked it up and started using it, I got I mean, the gold off of it is is rubbing off the red off of it's rubbing off.
I'm going to now that I know it's local, I'm going to go get something nice.
We're just going to order some actually.
But maybe I can get them to put our logo on it.
I bet you can.
(45:55):
Because I'm doing that.
We need more of these lighters.
These lighters are freaking awesome.
They are pretty nice.
That's been a very reliable whiter.
Extremely.
Yeah.
I've got some that and they get past three refills.
These are not expensive lighters.
Good.
And it hasn't broken.
(46:18):
All the other just what there was one time where where I had a $80 lighter.
Yeah.
I hate that.
Broken like two months.
Yeah.
What the.
This thing though, freaking awesome.
And we actually we should we should get some with our logo on it.
And why not put it on the website?
(46:39):
Maybe somebody else buy one.
Exactly.
They're freaking awesome lighters.
These these are.
I'm going to come out and say that these are hands down.
This is hands down, my favorite lighter.
Mm hmm.
I take this thing.
You have said everywhere with me.
Now the two bowl ones, the ones that look like, you know, they're in the same
position.
(47:00):
I was the guy.
You know, when people see me with one of those and I love those two.
Yeah.
When people see me with one of those, they're like, that's a
funny odd shape for a cigar lighter.
I'm like, no, look, and you know, I've got the big herphador.
Yeah.
You know, and I drop it in there and it fits in the slot of a cigar.
They're like, oh, I'm giving me one of those.
(47:24):
And same thing, same thing with this little thing.
When I showed that they're like, that's awesome.
Yes, it is awesome.
I can't believe I got it as a gift.
Let it sit for a year before I found out it was awesome.
You're on bias.
Yeah.
There we go.
We were talking about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(47:45):
All right.
All right.
So.
Yeah, we have to probably about time to rank this bad boy.
Much so.
Oh, man.
I know, I know.
It is difficult.
So where do I want to put this?
Um, and there's a David off in the list.
(48:08):
There are many things in the list already.
Oh, shit.
Hmm.
OK, instantly, there are two places that I want that I think it would fit.
Absolutely fabulous stretch on a third.
I should.
Yeah.
Oh, yoy.
OK.
(48:29):
All right.
Well, the computer wants me to put it there, but it's not going there.
I have chosen my destination.
I hate to put it there because of what we just talked about.
I don't even know what that means, but I'll find out.
But I'm going to put it there.
OK, well, did it go there?
Yeah, I don't know.
Yes, it went there.
(48:50):
OK, so I'm going to scroll to the bottom.
I'm going to make you scroll all the way up.
And then I go in touch.
All right.
Am I?
Let's see what Daryl did here.
We're talking about the Eagle Rare 10.
And there are currently 16 on the list.
Oh, way up there at number five.
(49:12):
It broke the top five.
Nice.
Yeah.
So that is just below the Russell Reserve single barrel at 110 proof and the lone
Elm White Port Finnegano.
I know you love that one.
Yeah.
So wow.
Nice.
Yeah.
It's nice when you get something that breaks the top five.
(49:33):
Especially we've only got 16, but still top five is top five, right?
Always.
So nice.
OK, to finish to round out the top five here, let me let me let me step through it here.
We've got this one, the Eagle Rare 10 number four Russell Reserve single barrel.
Number three, the lineage number two, 1845, pre-insum reserve a cask.
(49:58):
And still number one undefeated Remus, volume eight.
Mm hmm.
Yep.
I'm still holding in there.
All right.
Well, you have put the Ferriotego Metropolitan host Maduro in the number 11 spot, which beat
out the Espinosa 601 Lebamba sake bomb and came in just behind the Devaroff Winston Churchill.
(50:24):
Nice.
Yeah.
Now your top five remain the part of his heritage, the Evan Chura King's gold, the AJ
Manowar Armada, the Evan Chura Blue Eye, Jack's revenge.
And at number one, the Perdomo 20th anniversary, Maduro.
Don't go.
Well, nice.
(50:46):
A little bit of a surprise there.
I for you or for me?
For me.
I, you know, I was, I was waffling between putting it above or below the low now finish.
That is such a good bottle.
I'm all I'm actually already second guessing it.
Like I probably should put it on.
But I was it's written in stone now.
(51:10):
Can't be moved.
I can't be moved.
I was really surprised that you put it in front of that white port finish that still I still can't
believe that's a thing.
White port.
Hmm.
Uh, but I mean, you, you raved about that.
I did.
I mean, I probably made a mistake.
(51:31):
I should have put it below.
Like you said, can't be moved.
I already said it once we've said it, it can't be changed.
Done, man.
Yeah, done.
I got one mistake this year.
Is that that's all right?
Well, wow.
To use a dereliction.
All right.
Well, I think I think that's done just like this episode is done, you think?
(51:54):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know this because I think.
Thank you.
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