November 22, 2025 • 27 mins
My guest today, Sunalie, is a warm and gifted journalist – and also a former client of mine.
During our time together, she had so many meaningful wins. Hearing about the specific shifts she made will help you strengthen your own confidence and communication skills – including how to feel more at ease when all eyes are on you.
Sunalie has been with her partner for over 20 years, but they never got married. Not because she didn’t want to, but because the thought of standing in front of a room with all eyes on her felt overwhelming.
That tension – wanting a moment, but not wanting to be seen – is something many of us can relate to.
We shrink to protect ourselves. It’s a pattern we learn early. But at some point, most of us start questioning how we’re living, who we want to be, and whether we’re satisfied with how we’re showing up. We start wondering what else might be possible.
What you’re about to hear is a conversation about what can shift when you stop bracing for disappointment and start letting yourself be seen.
Sunalie didn't just learn to speak up more. She learned to share more. She learned to feel comfortable being herself. And that changed the trajectory of her work, her relationships, and her confidence.
If you’re at a similar crossroads – you’re successful, but you can feel that you’re still putting up walls or playing small – this episode will resonate. Enjoy!
❤️
If you’re listening and realizing you’re ready to begin your own transformation story, book a free consultation with me today. This is the work I love doing most – helping you get out of your head and start looking and feeling more confident in your communication.
Book your free communication coaching consultation
Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot?
I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.
Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Today, I am speaking with Tsunali Silva, a warm and
gifted journalist and also aformer client of mine.
During our time together,Tsunali had so many meaningful
wins.
And I know that hearing aboutthe specific shifts that she
made is going to help youstrengthen your own confidence
and communication skills.
So I was thrilled when sheagreed to come on the podcast
(00:25):
and share so openly.
Sunali has been with her partnerfor over 20 years, but they
never got married.
Not because she didn't want to,but they never got married.
Not because she didn't want to,but because the thought of
standing in front of everyonewith all eyes on her felt really
overwhelming.
And that tension of wantingsomething really badly, but also
(00:48):
not wanting to be seen, this issomething that so many of us can
relate to.
We shrink to protect ourselves,and this is a pattern that we
learn early.
But at a certain point, most ofus start questioning how we are
living, who we want to be, andwhether we are satisfied with
how we are showing up.
We start wondering what elsemight be possible.
(01:10):
What you're about to hear is aconversation about what can
happen when you stop racing fordisappointment and you start
letting yourself be seen.
Tsunai didn't just learn tospeak up more, she learned to
share more.
She learned to feel morecomfortable being herself.
And as you'll hear, this changedthe entire trajectory of her
(01:32):
work, her relationships, and herconfidence.
So if you are at a similarcrossroads, you are successful,
but feel like you're stillputting up walls or playing
small, this episode is reallygoing to resonate.
Enjoy.
Welcome Sunali.
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Thank you so much for being here.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I think the last time we caughtup was probably about two weeks
ago, was our last session.
So it's it's nice to see yourface again.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
Before we jump into everything that's been going on
for you recently, let us knowwho you are, where you're
living, what you do for aliving.
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
Oh, sure.
So I'm a medical journalist.
I write for doctors.
A day for me could be writingfor oncologists, general
practitioners, hematologists,all sorts of um doctors.
I live with my partner of uh 21years and my son Henry, who's 10
years old, here in Sydney inAustralia.
(02:29):
I've been uh in my professionfor about the last 20, 20 years.
And yeah, that's me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
One of my favorite stories, and when you told me
this story, I was like, oh, Ihope Sunali wants to share this
because I think it would be sohelpful to people.
It's the story about the goingto the concert with your
husband.
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
Yes, yes, right.
So yeah, we weren't just talkingabout work with with our
communication with mycommunication issues.
You know, it obviously it bleedsinto all my relationships.
And I said to you that oh,that's right.
We had to shift, we had to shiftone of our sessions because I
said, Oh, I I booked thesetickets last year for this this
concert that I know it's a bandthat my husband and I used to
(03:12):
listen to like 20 years ago, andthey're doing this reunion
concert.
And so I booked it way back whenand I had said, I have a I know
my husband's gonna on on the daysay, I'm too busy, I'm just I'm
too tired.
And I had this kind of feelingin the in the back of my mind
that that's how it would gobecause that's how it often
goes.
(03:32):
So I said to you, and if hedoesn't want to go, that's fine.
I'll I'll take a friend, I'lltake my mum.
And you said, Well, what if ifyou were just honest and said,
I'm really looking forward tothis, and I'd be so sad if if we
didn't get to go togetherbecause I really want to see it
with you.
And I said, Oh, that kind offill filled me with, well, I had
this pit in my stomach becauseagain, it was being a little bit
(03:56):
vulnerable.
I said, Look, I'm gonna try it.
I'll try it.
And I think we even talked abouthow do you even start that
conversation?
You asked, what how how would Istart that?
And Sybil, often I'll say on themorning of just before he's
going to work, I'll say, Don'tforget you have this thing with
me tonight.
And we talked about maybe evenreframing that so it's not a
(04:17):
thing to check off or anotherthing to add to your list.
How about, oh, I'm reallyexcited about this concert
tonight.
I've booked us this great placefor dinner.
Can't wait to go after work.
And so I tried that and uh itimmediately lifted the vibe
between us straight away.
And that set the tone, really,for um the rest of the day and
that evening, just being honestabout how excited I was about
(04:40):
this thing, even knowing thatthere was very likely a chance
that he'll say, you know what,I'm kind of tired, I can't make
it.
But then knowing that I'd beokay with that too, with at
least it's out there.
And we ended up going out, wehad a great time, we had a great
dinner, and we came home and hesaid, You know what?
I was really tired and I wasn'tlooking forward to it, to be
honest, but you seem so happy.
And so I went along and he said,I actually had the best time.
(05:03):
I forgot how much I liked them,and it inspired him again to
pick up his guitar and startplaying.
So it was just a tiny littleshift in the way I expressed
myself, but it had a big flow oneffect throughout that day.
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Yeah, it had a huge ripple effect.
It sounds like you had yournormal habit was like, all
right, I'm gonna tell him lastminute.
Yeah, he has to do this thing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Because I felt like I felt like if I make it last
minute, then it won't because Iknow I'm gonna be disappointed.
So I'd rather be disappointedright at the end than spending
months knowing that I'mdisappointed because he'll say
I'm not really into that.
And yeah, so I was gonna waittill the last minute.
But I but that strategy sort ofmakes it a self-fulfilling
prophecy because of course ifyou tell someone to drop
(05:46):
something at the last minutethat it's not gonna go smoothly.
Um, but that was the patternthat we evolved with each other.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
And it was vulnerable for you to be honest
about I'm really excited, andit's you who I want to go with.
And it sounds like using thatlanguage really opened him up.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the other things
that we talked about when wefirst started doing our sessions
was that I wanted to be more ofan authentic communicator.
And I know that word gets thrownaround a lot, and what does it
mean?
But I suppose being able toaccess that vulnerability in
communicating with loved ones,especially.
And so that was something that Iwas trying to access too.
(06:24):
So that was a perfect moment toexperiment with that and try
that out, and you know, itwasn't a huge high-stakes thing,
which is why it was a good timeto test that out.
And yeah, it was turned out tobe a fabulous night for both of
us.
So we had talked a bit about thethe two different paths you can
follow of just being comfortableand following that path the way
(06:45):
you always communicate, or youcan take this sort of other road
that's a little bituncomfortable but could lead you
to something else.
So um, I do always think aboutthat now.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
The Hercules choice.
Yes, the Hercules choice.
Yeah, you can follow yourhabitual patterns, or you can
choose the highest self route.
And that's what I chose thatnight.
So what made you decide at thispoint in your life that you
wanted to work on yourcommunication?
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
I think for me it was I was just noticing that you
know, I was coming to this greatpoint in my career.
I've got this the my dream jobessentially, and um, I was
feeling the pressure of existingin that space of the dream job,
and that was making me put somebig, big walls up in the way I
communicate with people becauseI was wanting to be perfect, I
(07:35):
guess, or and and present ideasin a perfect way, pitch, pitch
really great ideas that appealedto everyone in the room, and it
kind of that kind of thinkingsort of paralyzed the way I
communicated with people, and itkind of shrunk who I was in
those in those spaces.
And so I knew it was something Ihad to work on.
I couldn't do it on my own, Iguess.
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
I know one of your values is connection, and it
sounds like your fear of notbeing perfect is that was
actually a huge barrier to theconnection that you wanted to
build.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point because it
just meant that I didn't speakup in in um team meetings.
It meant that I didn't share myideas because I I had, which I'm
look, I'm sure lots of peoplehave these voices in their heads
that say, well, why would myidea be any good to listen to,
or why would I take up all thesepeople's time with with this
(08:30):
particular idea?
I'm sure the person sitting nextto me or everyone else in this
room has got a better idea thanI do, so let's give them the
floor.
And what that meant was that noone ever really got to properly
connect with me because theydidn't know what I valued and
what I stood for in thosemeetings.
I think that was what waswearing me down, the fact that I
knew that I wasn't connecting myvalues to the way I communicate
(08:52):
in that space.
What did you try experimentingwith?
At the time before you and Istarted working together, I just
tried anticipating everythingthat everyone was going to say,
and then researching andresearching uh everything I
possibly could to come up withanswers.
And then so I that classic thingin being overprepared, and then
(09:14):
just having a head full ofideas, and then it just been a
big jumble and and not beingable to be really clear on any
one thing.
So it was this kind of viciouscycle.
So then you and I started towork together, and the biggest
thing I think was to clarify myvalues, to really uh understand,
you know, what my core valueswere, and and it did come down
(09:36):
to connection and giving people,I think one of my biggest ones
was to give people that sense ofsafety in in being able to talk
to me and express themselves.
But that required realizing thatrequired me to show some
vulnerability too, because it'shard for people to be to feel
safe around you if you're notwilling to be vulnerable back.
So that was the biggest thing.
(09:56):
And then the second thing wasthen shifting my goals, learning
to shift my goal from thinkingthat a win in these
conversations were presentingthat the best pitch, that
everyone in the room agreed withuh what I put forward, and
shifting that to the goal beingI spoke up and that helped
(10:21):
foster some kind of connectionwith those people in the room.
And then that led to usdiscussing ideas, workshopping
some of the ideas that I putforward, some of them got
through and some of them didn't,but it was believing that I
would be okay with that,learning to reframe the idea in
my head that it's not a loss ora failure if an idea doesn't get
(10:42):
through, that it's okay if ifsomeone doesn't accept what I
say or wants to go back andforth a bit, learning to be okay
with that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
What I loved about working with you, and there were
many things, was you werewilling to experiment and to try
things and to explore and reallyimplement the things that we
talked about.
So when you started to embracethat way of looking at goals and
values, how did that change howyou showed up at work and your
(11:11):
interactions and meetings?
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Oh, it was it was such a huge revelation when I
started looking at things thatway.
It allowed me to experiment abit more.
It sort of gave me permission toto to mess things up as well,
you know, and and to in my mindsay it's this is all a little
bit of me experimenting andcollecting evidence to say that
(11:34):
you are the sort of personthat's okay with not being right
about everything, about havingeveryone completely understand
what you put out there in, youknow, in the first go.
And so it was kind of it waskind of fun because all of a
sudden I had this permissionjust to start doing these tiny
little experiments, which I'msure no one really realized I
was doing it.
(11:54):
It was big for me inside.
The thing was having our weeklycatch-ups, it it just allowed me
to keep going because, well, Iwas accountable for these, you
know, these little experimentsand one foot in front of the
other just kept going with them.
And a lot of the times theyworked and sometimes they
didn't, but because it wasframed under I'm the sort of
person that's okay with that,then it allowed me to keep
(12:17):
going.
Just that little shift inmindset really opened up a lot
of doors for me in the way Icommunicate.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
Yeah.
And would you say you feel morecomfortable talking in meetings
and engaging with people?
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
Yeah, definitely.
I think I remember, you know,we'd jump online to have a chat
and you'd say, So what's beengoing on this week?
And I would invariably say,Nothing much, you know, it's
been a pretty slow week.
And then I'd say, Well, I'vepitched this idea at this
meeting, and you'd stop and say,Well, hang on a minute.
That's kind of a big thingbecause that was a scary thing
for you before.
And so you kind of don't realizeit at the well, I didn't realize
(12:53):
at the time, but when you lookback on the week, what the two
weeks, and gradually over amonth, you can see that these
are big shifts, and I havebecome a more vocal voice in the
room.
Yeah, you even got promoted.
I did.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
Even dreamier dream job.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
It's so true, it's so true.
Yeah, it's so funny because justthe way that I was able to
communicate more, people got asense of the the kind of stories
I valued in in these meetings,the kind of stories I wanted to
tell as a journalist, and thatreally allowed them to see that
I might be a good fit foranother role that was coming up.
(13:31):
And I think perhaps if I if Iwasn't so vocal, or as vocal as
I had been in the last fewweeks, that might not have
happened.
So cool.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Celebrating that win again.
Yes.
We've talked about small momentsthat mean a lot to us that other
people might not notice.
And I think that's common foreveryone.
As we are sharing stories orconcerns out loud, a lot of it
is like, oh, well, I guess it'snot that big of a deal.
(14:03):
But internally, it's a hugedeal.
And I think it's so important towork on these smaller things
because they do have rippleeffects and they mean a lot more
in the larger context,especially when it comes to
trying to improve ourrelationships with people we
know, and then also having morepleasant interactions with
people we don't know.
(14:24):
And one of uh the stories youshared with me was getting a
book signed.
You went to a book signing.
Yeah.
Can you share that story?
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Yeah, so a journalist that I follow here,
uh, I've been following her workfor a while.
Uh, she had published a book andI had booked a couple of tickets
for a friend and I to go and seeher.
Now, this friend uh couldn'tmake it in the end, and uh, so I
said, okay, I'll I'll go, I washappy enough to go alone.
And I remember thinking, I'm thekind of person that at book
(14:55):
signings, I'm happy to listen tothe talk, but in my head, at the
but when it times to book comesto the book being signed, I
think, do you know what?
They're probably really busy.
Uh, they've probably got loadsto do and what they probably
have a big party planned afterthis with their with their
actual friends.
They don't want to talk to me,they don't want to have to
listen to me, you know, uh talkabout how much I admire them.
So I'll just I'll just buy thecopy of the book and I'll walk
(15:18):
out quietly.
But I remember thinking, Ireally do want her to know that
I'm I I I appreciate everythingshe's doing and I know how hard
it is.
And I remember thinking, oh, inthat line, what am I gonna say?
I've got nothing really superprofound to say.
But I said to myself, I'm youknow, I I'm okay with not being,
(15:40):
you know, set saying somethingsuper profound.
I just want her to know thatthat what she's doing is
amazing.
And and I essentially said thatwhen I got up there.
I wish I had something bigger tosay, but I've been following you
for a long time and I thinkyou're amazing, and I think
you're really brave, and Ireally, I really appreciate what
you're doing.
And she signed the book and wehad a little really nice
(16:03):
interaction.
Um, and then I left, but Iremember feeling so great, not
because of how it made me feel,but I was just pleased that I
was able to to convey and showmy appreciation and gratitude
towards her.
And I remember we spoke about itafterwards, and I think the
thing about that was there wasthe shift there was moving away
(16:26):
from, oh, I feel so embarrassed,or what if I say something
silly, or what if I'm wastingher time, and shifting to I'd
really like to let her know howgreat she uh she is for what
she's doing, really took theburden of and the exha anxiety
of performing that perfectlyaway, and it made it more about
(16:48):
her rather than me.
So that that was a big shiftthat I didn't necessarily see at
the time.
It was only after we weretalking about it that I noticed
that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Yeah, I think that's such a relatable example, and
I've been there myself whereI've gone to see an author, and
yeah, I've had the same, thesame conversation in my mind,
like, hmm, what can I say that'sso profound or that'll be so
into yes, and I think you Ithink the approach that you took
(17:19):
was so much more meaningful.
We don't need to sell ourselvesas the worthy audience.
It's more about showingappreciation and that just that
completely changes things.
So yeah, I I love that it wasfocusing on oh, what's a gift I
can give them rather than tryingto impress and trying to impress
(17:39):
this person.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Yeah, and I just it's you know, when I think
about those interactions, youknow, the work interactions and
and the book signing and and youthink there's part of you trying
to protect your ego, perhaps,and that's where the
vulnerability comes in.
And when you shift the per thethe perspective and the lens
(18:01):
that you view it from inward tooutward, it really, it really
helps to, like I said before,take relieve that anxiety of of
performing a certain type ofcommunication and it becomes
more authentic, I feel.
I wanted to tell you about theum how the actual uh speech went
for my husband's birthday.
(18:22):
Yes, I'm going to know.
Well, it so I had it all writtenout, and it was so good that you
and I had that chat beforehandbecause when I centered it
around just the qualities andattributes that it just it just
flowed, it just came so easily.
And you're right, I just Iwhipped it up in an hour and um
it felt so much more heartfelt.
(18:43):
So on the night of the party, itstarted at five, and it was
going around to all my friendsand family, going, I've got to
do this speech, I'm supernervous.
And so they were all justpumping me up, and I'm like,
he'll just have to forgive me ifmy voice goes wobbly or I get a
bit emotional, and like just youknow, just go.
We all, you know, we're allhappy for you.
And they knew already that thenerves were there.
(19:04):
So we got up and I introducedHenry, and he started off with a
great little um icebreaker.
He was like, My dad's sospecial, I wish I could have
been around for all his ups anddowns, but in the last 10 years,
there's only been up, so um,which got everyone laughing and
um broke the ice, and everyonejust just loved that he got up
(19:24):
there and said anything, really.
And so they were all cheeringhim on because that sort of
eased eased my nerves because Iwas just listening to him, I was
able to get up.
It was so funny because we had aslideshow of all the photos of
our families and friends goingon, and it was going on behind
us.
But weirdly, every time Imentioned someone, their photo
would come up.
Or if I mentioned Gary's umparents or like brothers and
(19:46):
stuff, that the photos wouldcome up.
So it was like it was like wehad timed it.
And so everyone was busy lookingat the pictures and not
necessarily like hearing mywords, but not eyeballs on me,
which I found to be reallyhelpful.
Um, so I was able to get throughit all, and it just almost like
I was in this kind of like flowstate where you're not really
(20:06):
observing yourself so much.
And lots of friends werevideoing me and had sent me the
footage, but one friend had justvideoed Gary during the
speeches, and she's she's like,he is so trying not to cry
during this whole thing, likejust keep it together.
But I got through it and it wasgreat.
I mean, I I don't know if Idelivered it perfectly polished,
(20:27):
but I said the things that Iwanted to say, and that was the
goal for me.
So I was super proud of myself.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
The goal was to say something meaningful to your
husband.
And if I'm rememberingcorrectly, when we first met and
we did a sort of confidenceladder exercise, what's
something very small towards thebeginning of the scale?
What's your level 100 mostscary, terrifying thing?
You list that birthday speech asyour most terrifying thing.
(20:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you did it.
You did you conquered your level100 fear?
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
It's it is like just another little piece of evidence
to say that it's like working amuscle, like it's one little rep
that I've done that I couldthen, you know, build on that
for the next time.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Again, the win is that you got up there and did it
because I didn't know today ifyou were going to tell me, you
know what, Sarah, I chickenedout.
I'm so sorry.
You know, I just wasn't feelinggood.
Or, well, there were otherpeople who wanted to speak, so I
didn't, I didn't really need todo it, but you actually did it.
You followed through.
It's true, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
I'm so proud of you.
Thank you so much.
And I think it was quiteoverwhelming for him as well.
And then my uh then his brotherjust got up and did an impromptu
speech, and his sister did one,and then my dad did one.
So it was a really beautifulseries of moments that I think
Henry and I started when we gotup there and triggered a few, a
few memories in people andstuff.
(21:54):
So, and we we we talked early onabout my one of my values in
communicating with people is tobring people together and that
sort of connection.
And and I'm pleased that thatthat achieved that as well by
bringing other people up there.
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
That sounds so special and how clever of your
friend to be filming.
Oh, his yes, his reactions.
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
I know.
I was so I was so pleasedbecause that that I can watch a
thousand times over.
So yeah, that it was it it wasgood.
And you know, the thing is Iknew I put the work in in terms
of prepping myself and expectingthe emotions and the anxiety to
come up and not feeling like,oh, you've done the work, you
shouldn't feel anxious now.
But understanding that that'sstill gonna be there no matter
what.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Being mindful of reality, nerves are a natural
part of things that are gonnacome up and that's okay, and we
can coexist with exactlyexactly.
We can coexist with them.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I love that story.
Thank you for sharing that.
And it's interesting that youforgot that that was even an
issue for you.
So again, like I've said, I liketo remind people of their wins
(23:00):
because they're like, oh yeah, Ifor I forgot that that even was
on my radar.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
It you have taken me back to ourfirst session where I had said
that's something I want to do bythe end of our time together, to
have the not necessarily todeliver a polished speech, but
to have the courage to at leastget up there and try it.
And yeah, it was my number onefear, which is it is the number
one fear for most people, Isuppose, but but interesting
(23:25):
that by the end of our timetogether, I'd forgotten that it
was my number one fear.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yeah.
I saw a huge transformation inyou over the time that we work
together.
What feels most different foryou now from where you are to
where you started?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
I think the really the biggest shift for me is I
don't view interactions as it'smy responsibility to control the
way a conversation might go andwhat another person's
perceptions of me is because ofthat conversation.
Sort of handing over a lot moreuh credibility to the people I'm
(24:05):
communicating with to make it atwo-way street, that that
they're that they're interestedin me just as much as I am in
them.
And I've learned over the lastfew weeks that for me the
biggest part of communicatingwith someone is allowing them to
learn a little bit more about meand connecting in a in a
meaningful way.
And to do that, I'm prepared toleave space for things to come
(24:30):
out the imperfectly because thatcreates a space for someone to
ask a few more questions or dropin the need to have a perfect an
idea of what a perfectconversation is.
SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Sunali, it has been great connecting with you again.
And where can people find outmore about you?
I believe you have a Substackidea percolating that will be
coming out eventually.
Tell me more about that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
Look, I it's it would be one of my dreams to
start my own Substack.
I am a medical journalist and Ihad this idea to have a space
where I can talk about and writeabout some of the studies and
and the interesting people I getto talk to, but in a more sort
of um looser format, a bit more,a bit more fun, a bit more space
(25:17):
to really delve into some of theideas that I wanted to in those
stories but couldn't.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
So you write for doctors and you're thinking
about writing something more forthe general audience that we
could understand.
SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think I want it to be aspace where I mean, because I I
have I feel like I've got thisthis great job and and I'm so
privileged to talk to so manygreat, interesting people who
are doing amazing things in inmedicine and science, and I'd
love a space to bring that toeveryone else and a bit less a
less formal space where we cantalk about some of those great
(25:49):
ideas, those great minds andhealth and well-being.
So I I'm hoping to, well, I Iwill do that next year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to
share or talk about?
SPEAKER_00 (26:00):
No, I think we covered uh a lot of the things
that I felt were big wins andimprovements for me.
We talked a lot about, you know,things that were happening at
work, we talked about thingsthat were happening in my
relationship, in in myfriendship group as well.
You know, there were so manyparts of my life that these
little changes that I was makingthat were going to affect.
(26:21):
It's been fun and it's been andit's been really eye-opening and
it's changed a lot of myrelationships since um working
together.
And I'm so glad that I did doit.
And I and I would say to myselfa year ago, just be prepared to
be a little bit uncomfortable,and it's not gonna be as hard as
you think it's gonna be.
But the the benefits that comefrom it, from whatever it is you
(26:43):
want to work on yourself about,are a lot wider than and and
broader than you think thatthey're gonna be.
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Thank you again to Sunali.
What an incredible woman.
We had such a great time workingtogether.
And if you are listening to thisand realizing that you are ready
to begin your own transformationstory, book a free consultation
with me today.
This is the work I love doingmost, helping you get out of
your head and to start lookingand feeling more confident in
(27:13):
your communication.
You don't need to overthink it,just take the first step.
The link to book a call is inthe show notes.
Today, I am speaking with Tsunali Silva, a warm and
gifted journalist and also aformer client of mine.
During our time together,Tsunali had so many meaningful
wins.
And I know that hearing aboutthe specific shifts that she
made is going to help youstrengthen your own confidence
and communication skills.
So I was thrilled when sheagreed to come on the podcast
(00:25):
and share so openly.
Sunali has been with her partnerfor over 20 years, but they
never got married.
Not because she didn't want to,but they never got married.
Not because she didn't want to,but because the thought of
standing in front of everyonewith all eyes on her felt really
overwhelming.
And that tension of wantingsomething really badly, but also
(00:48):
not wanting to be seen, this issomething that so many of us can
relate to.
We shrink to protect ourselves,and this is a pattern that we
learn early.
But at a certain point, most ofus start questioning how we are
living, who we want to be, andwhether we are satisfied with
how we are showing up.
We start wondering what elsemight be possible.
(01:10):
What you're about to hear is aconversation about what can
happen when you stop racing fordisappointment and you start
letting yourself be seen.
Tsunai didn't just learn tospeak up more, she learned to
share more.
She learned to feel morecomfortable being herself.
And as you'll hear, this changedthe entire trajectory of her
(01:32):
work, her relationships, and herconfidence.
So if you are at a similarcrossroads, you are successful,
but feel like you're stillputting up walls or playing
small, this episode is reallygoing to resonate.
Enjoy.
Welcome Sunali.
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Thank you so much for being here.
It's a pleasure to be here.
I think the last time we caughtup was probably about two weeks
ago, was our last session.
So it's it's nice to see yourface again.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
Before we jump into everything that's been going on
for you recently, let us knowwho you are, where you're
living, what you do for aliving.
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
Oh, sure.
So I'm a medical journalist.
I write for doctors.
A day for me could be writingfor oncologists, general
practitioners, hematologists,all sorts of um doctors.
I live with my partner of uh 21years and my son Henry, who's 10
years old, here in Sydney inAustralia.
(02:29):
I've been uh in my professionfor about the last 20, 20 years.
And yeah, that's me.
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
One of my favorite stories, and when you told me
this story, I was like, oh, Ihope Sunali wants to share this
because I think it would be sohelpful to people.
It's the story about the goingto the concert with your
husband.
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
Yes, yes, right.
So yeah, we weren't just talkingabout work with with our
communication with mycommunication issues.
You know, it obviously it bleedsinto all my relationships.
And I said to you that oh,that's right.
We had to shift, we had to shiftone of our sessions because I
said, Oh, I I booked thesetickets last year for this this
concert that I know it's a bandthat my husband and I used to
(03:12):
listen to like 20 years ago, andthey're doing this reunion
concert.
And so I booked it way back whenand I had said, I have a I know
my husband's gonna on on the daysay, I'm too busy, I'm just I'm
too tired.
And I had this kind of feelingin the in the back of my mind
that that's how it would gobecause that's how it often
goes.
(03:32):
So I said to you, and if hedoesn't want to go, that's fine.
I'll I'll take a friend, I'lltake my mum.
And you said, Well, what if ifyou were just honest and said,
I'm really looking forward tothis, and I'd be so sad if if we
didn't get to go togetherbecause I really want to see it
with you.
And I said, Oh, that kind offill filled me with, well, I had
this pit in my stomach becauseagain, it was being a little bit
(03:56):
vulnerable.
I said, Look, I'm gonna try it.
I'll try it.
And I think we even talked abouthow do you even start that
conversation?
You asked, what how how would Istart that?
And Sybil, often I'll say on themorning of just before he's
going to work, I'll say, Don'tforget you have this thing with
me tonight.
And we talked about maybe evenreframing that so it's not a
(04:17):
thing to check off or anotherthing to add to your list.
How about, oh, I'm reallyexcited about this concert
tonight.
I've booked us this great placefor dinner.
Can't wait to go after work.
And so I tried that and uh itimmediately lifted the vibe
between us straight away.
And that set the tone, really,for um the rest of the day and
that evening, just being honestabout how excited I was about
(04:40):
this thing, even knowing thatthere was very likely a chance
that he'll say, you know what,I'm kind of tired, I can't make
it.
But then knowing that I'd beokay with that too, with at
least it's out there.
And we ended up going out, wehad a great time, we had a great
dinner, and we came home and hesaid, You know what?
I was really tired and I wasn'tlooking forward to it, to be
honest, but you seem so happy.
And so I went along and he said,I actually had the best time.
(05:03):
I forgot how much I liked them,and it inspired him again to
pick up his guitar and startplaying.
So it was just a tiny littleshift in the way I expressed
myself, but it had a big flow oneffect throughout that day.
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Yeah, it had a huge ripple effect.
It sounds like you had yournormal habit was like, all
right, I'm gonna tell him lastminute.
Yeah, he has to do this thing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Because I felt like I felt like if I make it last
minute, then it won't because Iknow I'm gonna be disappointed.
So I'd rather be disappointedright at the end than spending
months knowing that I'mdisappointed because he'll say
I'm not really into that.
And yeah, so I was gonna waittill the last minute.
But I but that strategy sort ofmakes it a self-fulfilling
prophecy because of course ifyou tell someone to drop
(05:46):
something at the last minutethat it's not gonna go smoothly.
Um, but that was the patternthat we evolved with each other.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
And it was vulnerable for you to be honest
about I'm really excited, andit's you who I want to go with.
And it sounds like using thatlanguage really opened him up.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the other things
that we talked about when wefirst started doing our sessions
was that I wanted to be more ofan authentic communicator.
And I know that word gets thrownaround a lot, and what does it
mean?
But I suppose being able toaccess that vulnerability in
communicating with loved ones,especially.
And so that was something that Iwas trying to access too.
(06:24):
So that was a perfect moment toexperiment with that and try
that out, and you know, itwasn't a huge high-stakes thing,
which is why it was a good timeto test that out.
And yeah, it was turned out tobe a fabulous night for both of
us.
So we had talked a bit about thethe two different paths you can
follow of just being comfortableand following that path the way
(06:45):
you always communicate, or youcan take this sort of other road
that's a little bituncomfortable but could lead you
to something else.
So um, I do always think aboutthat now.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
The Hercules choice.
Yes, the Hercules choice.
Yeah, you can follow yourhabitual patterns, or you can
choose the highest self route.
And that's what I chose thatnight.
So what made you decide at thispoint in your life that you
wanted to work on yourcommunication?
SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
I think for me it was I was just noticing that you
know, I was coming to this greatpoint in my career.
I've got this the my dream jobessentially, and um, I was
feeling the pressure of existingin that space of the dream job,
and that was making me put somebig, big walls up in the way I
communicate with people becauseI was wanting to be perfect, I
(07:35):
guess, or and and present ideasin a perfect way, pitch, pitch
really great ideas that appealedto everyone in the room, and it
kind of that kind of thinkingsort of paralyzed the way I
communicated with people, and itkind of shrunk who I was in
those in those spaces.
And so I knew it was something Ihad to work on.
I couldn't do it on my own, Iguess.
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
I know one of your values is connection, and it
sounds like your fear of notbeing perfect is that was
actually a huge barrier to theconnection that you wanted to
build.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point because it
just meant that I didn't speakup in in um team meetings.
It meant that I didn't share myideas because I I had, which I'm
look, I'm sure lots of peoplehave these voices in their heads
that say, well, why would myidea be any good to listen to,
or why would I take up all thesepeople's time with with this
(08:30):
particular idea?
I'm sure the person sitting nextto me or everyone else in this
room has got a better idea thanI do, so let's give them the
floor.
And what that meant was that noone ever really got to properly
connect with me because theydidn't know what I valued and
what I stood for in thosemeetings.
I think that was what waswearing me down, the fact that I
knew that I wasn't connecting myvalues to the way I communicate
(08:52):
in that space.
What did you try experimentingwith?
At the time before you and Istarted working together, I just
tried anticipating everythingthat everyone was going to say,
and then researching andresearching uh everything I
possibly could to come up withanswers.
And then so I that classic thingin being overprepared, and then
(09:14):
just having a head full ofideas, and then it just been a
big jumble and and not beingable to be really clear on any
one thing.
So it was this kind of viciouscycle.
So then you and I started towork together, and the biggest
thing I think was to clarify myvalues, to really uh understand,
you know, what my core valueswere, and and it did come down
(09:36):
to connection and giving people,I think one of my biggest ones
was to give people that sense ofsafety in in being able to talk
to me and express themselves.
But that required realizing thatrequired me to show some
vulnerability too, because it'shard for people to be to feel
safe around you if you're notwilling to be vulnerable back.
So that was the biggest thing.
(09:56):
And then the second thing wasthen shifting my goals, learning
to shift my goal from thinkingthat a win in these
conversations were presentingthat the best pitch, that
everyone in the room agreed withuh what I put forward, and
shifting that to the goal beingI spoke up and that helped
(10:21):
foster some kind of connectionwith those people in the room.
And then that led to usdiscussing ideas, workshopping
some of the ideas that I putforward, some of them got
through and some of them didn't,but it was believing that I
would be okay with that,learning to reframe the idea in
my head that it's not a loss ora failure if an idea doesn't get
(10:42):
through, that it's okay if ifsomeone doesn't accept what I
say or wants to go back andforth a bit, learning to be okay
with that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
What I loved about working with you, and there were
many things, was you werewilling to experiment and to try
things and to explore and reallyimplement the things that we
talked about.
So when you started to embracethat way of looking at goals and
values, how did that change howyou showed up at work and your
(11:11):
interactions and meetings?
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Oh, it was it was such a huge revelation when I
started looking at things thatway.
It allowed me to experiment abit more.
It sort of gave me permission toto to mess things up as well,
you know, and and to in my mindsay it's this is all a little
bit of me experimenting andcollecting evidence to say that
(11:34):
you are the sort of personthat's okay with not being right
about everything, about havingeveryone completely understand
what you put out there in, youknow, in the first go.
And so it was kind of it waskind of fun because all of a
sudden I had this permissionjust to start doing these tiny
little experiments, which I'msure no one really realized I
was doing it.
(11:54):
It was big for me inside.
The thing was having our weeklycatch-ups, it it just allowed me
to keep going because, well, Iwas accountable for these, you
know, these little experimentsand one foot in front of the
other just kept going with them.
And a lot of the times theyworked and sometimes they
didn't, but because it wasframed under I'm the sort of
person that's okay with that,then it allowed me to keep
(12:17):
going.
Just that little shift inmindset really opened up a lot
of doors for me in the way Icommunicate.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
Yeah.
And would you say you feel morecomfortable talking in meetings
and engaging with people?
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
Yeah, definitely.
I think I remember, you know,we'd jump online to have a chat
and you'd say, So what's beengoing on this week?
And I would invariably say,Nothing much, you know, it's
been a pretty slow week.
And then I'd say, Well, I'vepitched this idea at this
meeting, and you'd stop and say,Well, hang on a minute.
That's kind of a big thingbecause that was a scary thing
for you before.
And so you kind of don't realizeit at the well, I didn't realize
(12:53):
at the time, but when you lookback on the week, what the two
weeks, and gradually over amonth, you can see that these
are big shifts, and I havebecome a more vocal voice in the
room.
Yeah, you even got promoted.
I did.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
Even dreamier dream job.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
It's so true, it's so true.
Yeah, it's so funny because justthe way that I was able to
communicate more, people got asense of the the kind of stories
I valued in in these meetings,the kind of stories I wanted to
tell as a journalist, and thatreally allowed them to see that
I might be a good fit foranother role that was coming up.
(13:31):
And I think perhaps if I if Iwasn't so vocal, or as vocal as
I had been in the last fewweeks, that might not have
happened.
So cool.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Celebrating that win again.
Yes.
We've talked about small momentsthat mean a lot to us that other
people might not notice.
And I think that's common foreveryone.
As we are sharing stories orconcerns out loud, a lot of it
is like, oh, well, I guess it'snot that big of a deal.
(14:03):
But internally, it's a hugedeal.
And I think it's so important towork on these smaller things
because they do have rippleeffects and they mean a lot more
in the larger context,especially when it comes to
trying to improve ourrelationships with people we
know, and then also having morepleasant interactions with
people we don't know.
(14:24):
And one of uh the stories youshared with me was getting a
book signed.
You went to a book signing.
Yeah.
Can you share that story?
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Yeah, so a journalist that I follow here,
uh, I've been following her workfor a while.
Uh, she had published a book andI had booked a couple of tickets
for a friend and I to go and seeher.
Now, this friend uh couldn'tmake it in the end, and uh, so I
said, okay, I'll I'll go, I washappy enough to go alone.
And I remember thinking, I'm thekind of person that at book
(14:55):
signings, I'm happy to listen tothe talk, but in my head, at the
but when it times to book comesto the book being signed, I
think, do you know what?
They're probably really busy.
Uh, they've probably got loadsto do and what they probably
have a big party planned afterthis with their with their
actual friends.
They don't want to talk to me,they don't want to have to
listen to me, you know, uh talkabout how much I admire them.
So I'll just I'll just buy thecopy of the book and I'll walk
(15:18):
out quietly.
But I remember thinking, Ireally do want her to know that
I'm I I I appreciate everythingshe's doing and I know how hard
it is.
And I remember thinking, oh, inthat line, what am I gonna say?
I've got nothing really superprofound to say.
But I said to myself, I'm youknow, I I'm okay with not being,
(15:40):
you know, set saying somethingsuper profound.
I just want her to know thatthat what she's doing is
amazing.
And and I essentially said thatwhen I got up there.
I wish I had something bigger tosay, but I've been following you
for a long time and I thinkyou're amazing, and I think
you're really brave, and Ireally, I really appreciate what
you're doing.
And she signed the book and wehad a little really nice
(16:03):
interaction.
Um, and then I left, but Iremember feeling so great, not
because of how it made me feel,but I was just pleased that I
was able to to convey and showmy appreciation and gratitude
towards her.
And I remember we spoke about itafterwards, and I think the
thing about that was there wasthe shift there was moving away
(16:26):
from, oh, I feel so embarrassed,or what if I say something
silly, or what if I'm wastingher time, and shifting to I'd
really like to let her know howgreat she uh she is for what
she's doing, really took theburden of and the exha anxiety
of performing that perfectlyaway, and it made it more about
(16:48):
her rather than me.
So that that was a big shiftthat I didn't necessarily see at
the time.
It was only after we weretalking about it that I noticed
that.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Yeah, I think that's such a relatable example, and
I've been there myself whereI've gone to see an author, and
yeah, I've had the same, thesame conversation in my mind,
like, hmm, what can I say that'sso profound or that'll be so
into yes, and I think you Ithink the approach that you took
(17:19):
was so much more meaningful.
We don't need to sell ourselvesas the worthy audience.
It's more about showingappreciation and that just that
completely changes things.
So yeah, I I love that it wasfocusing on oh, what's a gift I
can give them rather than tryingto impress and trying to impress
(17:39):
this person.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Yeah, and I just it's you know, when I think
about those interactions, youknow, the work interactions and
and the book signing and and youthink there's part of you trying
to protect your ego, perhaps,and that's where the
vulnerability comes in.
And when you shift the per thethe perspective and the lens
(18:01):
that you view it from inward tooutward, it really, it really
helps to, like I said before,take relieve that anxiety of of
performing a certain type ofcommunication and it becomes
more authentic, I feel.
I wanted to tell you about theum how the actual uh speech went
for my husband's birthday.
(18:22):
Yes, I'm going to know.
Well, it so I had it all writtenout, and it was so good that you
and I had that chat beforehandbecause when I centered it
around just the qualities andattributes that it just it just
flowed, it just came so easily.
And you're right, I just Iwhipped it up in an hour and um
it felt so much more heartfelt.
(18:43):
So on the night of the party, itstarted at five, and it was
going around to all my friendsand family, going, I've got to
do this speech, I'm supernervous.
And so they were all justpumping me up, and I'm like,
he'll just have to forgive me ifmy voice goes wobbly or I get a
bit emotional, and like just youknow, just go.
We all, you know, we're allhappy for you.
And they knew already that thenerves were there.
(19:04):
So we got up and I introducedHenry, and he started off with a
great little um icebreaker.
He was like, My dad's sospecial, I wish I could have
been around for all his ups anddowns, but in the last 10 years,
there's only been up, so um,which got everyone laughing and
um broke the ice, and everyonejust just loved that he got up
(19:24):
there and said anything, really.
And so they were all cheeringhim on because that sort of
eased eased my nerves because Iwas just listening to him, I was
able to get up.
It was so funny because we had aslideshow of all the photos of
our families and friends goingon, and it was going on behind
us.
But weirdly, every time Imentioned someone, their photo
would come up.
Or if I mentioned Gary's umparents or like brothers and
(19:46):
stuff, that the photos wouldcome up.
So it was like it was like wehad timed it.
And so everyone was busy lookingat the pictures and not
necessarily like hearing mywords, but not eyeballs on me,
which I found to be reallyhelpful.
Um, so I was able to get throughit all, and it just almost like
I was in this kind of like flowstate where you're not really
(20:06):
observing yourself so much.
And lots of friends werevideoing me and had sent me the
footage, but one friend had justvideoed Gary during the
speeches, and she's she's like,he is so trying not to cry
during this whole thing, likejust keep it together.
But I got through it and it wasgreat.
I mean, I I don't know if Idelivered it perfectly polished,
(20:27):
but I said the things that Iwanted to say, and that was the
goal for me.
So I was super proud of myself.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
The goal was to say something meaningful to your
husband.
And if I'm rememberingcorrectly, when we first met and
we did a sort of confidenceladder exercise, what's
something very small towards thebeginning of the scale?
What's your level 100 mostscary, terrifying thing?
You list that birthday speech asyour most terrifying thing.
(20:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you did it.
You did you conquered your level100 fear?
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
It's it is like just another little piece of evidence
to say that it's like working amuscle, like it's one little rep
that I've done that I couldthen, you know, build on that
for the next time.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Again, the win is that you got up there and did it
because I didn't know today ifyou were going to tell me, you
know what, Sarah, I chickenedout.
I'm so sorry.
You know, I just wasn't feelinggood.
Or, well, there were otherpeople who wanted to speak, so I
didn't, I didn't really need todo it, but you actually did it.
You followed through.
It's true, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
I'm so proud of you.
Thank you so much.
And I think it was quiteoverwhelming for him as well.
And then my uh then his brotherjust got up and did an impromptu
speech, and his sister did one,and then my dad did one.
So it was a really beautifulseries of moments that I think
Henry and I started when we gotup there and triggered a few, a
few memories in people andstuff.
(21:54):
So, and we we we talked early onabout my one of my values in
communicating with people is tobring people together and that
sort of connection.
And and I'm pleased that thatthat achieved that as well by
bringing other people up there.
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
That sounds so special and how clever of your
friend to be filming.
Oh, his yes, his reactions.
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
I know.
I was so I was so pleasedbecause that that I can watch a
thousand times over.
So yeah, that it was it it wasgood.
And you know, the thing is Iknew I put the work in in terms
of prepping myself and expectingthe emotions and the anxiety to
come up and not feeling like,oh, you've done the work, you
shouldn't feel anxious now.
But understanding that that'sstill gonna be there no matter
what.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Being mindful of reality, nerves are a natural
part of things that are gonnacome up and that's okay, and we
can coexist with exactlyexactly.
We can coexist with them.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I love that story.
Thank you for sharing that.
And it's interesting that youforgot that that was even an
issue for you.
So again, like I've said, I liketo remind people of their wins
(23:00):
because they're like, oh yeah, Ifor I forgot that that even was
on my radar.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
It you have taken me back to ourfirst session where I had said
that's something I want to do bythe end of our time together, to
have the not necessarily todeliver a polished speech, but
to have the courage to at leastget up there and try it.
And yeah, it was my number onefear, which is it is the number
one fear for most people, Isuppose, but but interesting
(23:25):
that by the end of our timetogether, I'd forgotten that it
was my number one fear.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Yeah.
I saw a huge transformation inyou over the time that we work
together.
What feels most different foryou now from where you are to
where you started?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
I think the really the biggest shift for me is I
don't view interactions as it'smy responsibility to control the
way a conversation might go andwhat another person's
perceptions of me is because ofthat conversation.
Sort of handing over a lot moreuh credibility to the people I'm
(24:05):
communicating with to make it atwo-way street, that that
they're that they're interestedin me just as much as I am in
them.
And I've learned over the lastfew weeks that for me the
biggest part of communicatingwith someone is allowing them to
learn a little bit more about meand connecting in a in a
meaningful way.
And to do that, I'm prepared toleave space for things to come
(24:30):
out the imperfectly because thatcreates a space for someone to
ask a few more questions or dropin the need to have a perfect an
idea of what a perfectconversation is.
SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Sunali, it has been great connecting with you again.
And where can people find outmore about you?
I believe you have a Substackidea percolating that will be
coming out eventually.
Tell me more about that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
Look, I it's it would be one of my dreams to
start my own Substack.
I am a medical journalist and Ihad this idea to have a space
where I can talk about and writeabout some of the studies and
and the interesting people I getto talk to, but in a more sort
of um looser format, a bit more,a bit more fun, a bit more space
(25:17):
to really delve into some of theideas that I wanted to in those
stories but couldn't.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
So you write for doctors and you're thinking
about writing something more forthe general audience that we
could understand.
SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think I want it to be aspace where I mean, because I I
have I feel like I've got thisthis great job and and I'm so
privileged to talk to so manygreat, interesting people who
are doing amazing things in inmedicine and science, and I'd
love a space to bring that toeveryone else and a bit less a
less formal space where we cantalk about some of those great
(25:49):
ideas, those great minds andhealth and well-being.
So I I'm hoping to, well, I Iwill do that next year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to
share or talk about?
SPEAKER_00 (26:00):
No, I think we covered uh a lot of the things
that I felt were big wins andimprovements for me.
We talked a lot about, you know,things that were happening at
work, we talked about thingsthat were happening in my
relationship, in in myfriendship group as well.
You know, there were so manyparts of my life that these
little changes that I was makingthat were going to affect.
(26:21):
It's been fun and it's been andit's been really eye-opening and
it's changed a lot of myrelationships since um working
together.
And I'm so glad that I did doit.
And I and I would say to myselfa year ago, just be prepared to
be a little bit uncomfortable,and it's not gonna be as hard as
you think it's gonna be.
But the the benefits that comefrom it, from whatever it is you
(26:43):
want to work on yourself about,are a lot wider than and and
broader than you think thatthey're gonna be.
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Thank you again to Sunali.
What an incredible woman.
We had such a great time workingtogether.
And if you are listening to thisand realizing that you are ready
to begin your own transformationstory, book a free consultation
with me today.
This is the work I love doingmost, helping you get out of
your head and to start lookingand feeling more confident in
(27:13):
your communication.
You don't need to overthink it,just take the first step.
The link to book a call is inthe show notes.
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