February 16, 2024 • 39 mins
Welcome, fellow citizen of the world. Today we are roadtripping through Turkey with my friend Michelle Warner-Martin.
Michelle recently roadtripped across Turkey through:
- Bursa
- Ephesus
- Pamukkale
- Konya
- Istanbul
- Adana
- Mersin
- Cappadocia
And she’s here to highlight the incredible experiences you can when traveling across Turkey.
Michelle is a wedding photographer, which allows her to travel in the off season when things are less crowded and less expensive.
Have you been to Turkey? Share your favorite memories with me! I’d love to hear from you on Instagram, or you can email me :)
***
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https://sarahmikutel.com/
@sarahmikutel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Live Without Worders, a podcast about
how to live the good lifethrough stoicism, personal
development and culturalexploration.
I'm your host, sarah Mygitel,an American in England who's
here to help fellow citizens ofthe world like you make the most
of the brief time you have hereon Earth.
It is time to make every momentmatter.
Welcome, fellow citizen of theworld.
(00:25):
Today we are roadtrippingthrough Turkey with my friend,
michelle Warner Martin.
Michelle recently roadtrippedacross Turkey and she went to
Bursa, ephesus, pamukkale, konya, Istanbul, adana, merson,
kappadokia.
She went all over the place andshe's here today to highlight
the incredible experiences thatyou can have as well travelling
(00:45):
through Turkey.
Michelle is a weddingphotographer, which allows her
to travel in the off season,when things are less crowded and
also less expensive.
This is a great episode.
I hope you love it and if youhave any favorite Turkish
memories, feel free to email meor message me on Instagram.
I would love to hear yourtravel stories about Turkey On
with the show.
Welcome, michelle.
(01:06):
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Hey, thanks, sarah.
I'm excited to chat with you.
You just celebrated a bigbirthday in Turkey.
What made you decide to chooseTurkey?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I actually my birthday is coming up in June,
but I traveled this time of yearbecause I don't like hot
weather.
But yes, I will be turning 15June.
And when I was a kid I lived inAdana at Interlik Air Force
Base and those are my very firstmemories in life.
And there's a town about anhour from Adana called Merson
(01:39):
that has this castle in the sea.
It's called Kizkilesi, which Ibelieve does translate to castle
in the sea or on the sea.
And when I was about two yearsold, I have a photo of my mother
and I standing on that beach infront of that castle.
And the interesting thing fromthe shore, obviously the castle
is a bit off in the distance.
(01:59):
But the interesting thing aboutthat beach is I have my very,
really my very first memory fromthat beach.
I remember running along thebeach and my mom was in the
background saying get over here,you're running too far ahead,
you know.
And third off, a wave came inand knocked me down a bit and I
just remember my mom scooping meup and saying I told you not to
(02:20):
run ahead.
So that was just a reallyinteresting memory for me.
I lost my mom almost five yearsago, so it was extra meaningful
to be able to go back to thatspace and I took a picture of
myself holding the picture andit was really interesting
because the first night that wewent there there was another
gentleman walking around and hesaw my cousin traveled with me
(02:43):
and he saw me being photographedholding this picture and he
came over and talked to us andhe was so taken by the story
that he and proud I think reallybecause this is where he's from
that I would travel all the wayfrom the other side of the
world to experience this momentin time with this castle.
He wanted to take a photo withme and the picture, which was
(03:03):
really sweet and that's the kindof spirit that you get in
Turkey so hospitable, welcoming,loving, encouraging.
If you had a question, it waseverything that they could do to
help you.
And really I don't know verymuch Turkish.
I know enough to be polite, butI was able to go and have good
(03:24):
conversations with people, evenjust using the translate app.
They would sit down and youcould go back and forth and have
your questions answered andnobody ever seemed too busy to
take that time, which just is areally wonderful experience to
have when you're traveling, andyou can use the Google translate
app.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, a lot Very handy very handy, and I know that you
are an adventurous traveler.
You're fine doing solo trips orall sorts of different kinds of
trips.
Initially started out having agroup tour for this trip.
What happened with that?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So initially I decided to go on a group tour
because I wanted to just notthink too much about it and just
go and let someone else takecare of me.
But about a month and a half Iwould say before the tour, I got
a message saying oh, there'snot enough people for your date,
we're gonna cancel the tour andput you on another date or
(04:17):
cancel entirely.
So I started thinking about it,and I travel so much on my own
and I had already booked myflights, so I thought you know
what I can do this, let's justgo it alone.
And so I did and I planned itand it was actually really easy
and fun and I had a lot offlexibility that I wouldn't have
had otherwise.
So I'm really glad I did itthat way.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So give me an overview of how you spent your
two weeks, and then we can divedeeper into a few different
places.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So I went to Istanbul for four days, which was
amazing, of course.
So much to say about Istanbulthat I think we could have our
own show just about that.
But from there I did fly toKapadokia, which was also very
simple to do, a really easyflight about an hour just from
the main.
There's two airports inIstanbul, but I flew out of the
main IST as the airport code toKayseri, then rented a car and
(05:09):
drove for the next 12 days 11days all over the country.
So we started in Kapadokia.
Then I have a personalconnection to the Adana area,
also Merson, which is rightalong the coast, so I decided to
drive down there.
That's maybe not necessarily onthe specific tourist track of
most people, but I had wanted togo down there to see where I
(05:33):
lived when I was a child.
So I drove down there, had acouple of long days in the car
because I decided to do thatbecause it was quite a distance
and then from there we drove toKonya.
Konya is really a beautifulplace we'll talk a little bit
more about that but from there Idrove to Pamukkale and then to
Izmir and then went up to Bursaafter that and then back to
(05:58):
Istanbul and I rented the carfrom Kayseri, but I did a
one-way, so I picked it up inKayseri and dropped it off in
Istanbul.
So a lot of times it'sextremely expensive to do a
one-way car rental, but itactually wasn't outrageous in
Turkey, so I decided to just paythe extra.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I think it was two or three hundred dollars and just
do it, and you just rent this atthe airport and drop it back
off at the airport.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I picked it up in Kapadokia and I dropped it off
at the airport in Istanbul, sothat made it really easy because
Turkey is such a huge country.
It really would have beendifficult to try to circle back
unless I wanted to fly back fromKapadokia, which you certainly
could do, but it would have beena lot of driving.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I know that you really liked Bursa, so how about
we start there?
What about Bursa?
Appeal to you.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I loved all of it, of course, but Bursa, for some
reason, was the thing that kindof stole my heart, unexpectedly.
I tend to.
The more I travel, I tend torealize that I'm a fan of, in my
mind, what I call second cities, cities that maybe aren't as
enormous and overwhelming, sayin Istanbul or you know, a Rome
or London, that kind of thing.
(07:12):
I love those cities, of course,but they are very overwhelming.
So when you're going there fora short period of time,
sometimes it takes a lot to sortof orient yourself or really
get the essence of that locationright.
What I loved about Bursa isit's still a very big, thriving,
wonderful city, but it was soaccessible.
Also, bursa is where they, theIskender kebab, is from.
(07:34):
We had that there and it was sogood.
I also had it in Istanbul aswell, but I don't know.
Just having it in Bursa seemedextra cool.
But if you're not familiar withIskender kebab, it's just
basically meat with bread cubesunderneath that.
They pour butter over it, whichsounds weird, but it's amazing.
And then there's this tomatoeykind of sauce that goes over all
(07:56):
of it and it is so good.
You definitely need to have it.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
What can us vegetarian tab?
Or is there a halloumi wrap orsomething over there?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Not halloumi necessarily.
Halloumi is my great love, so,trust me, if I found halloumi I
would have had it.
But there is so much fresh,delicious food there that I
wouldn't see having an issueeating vegetarian there at all.
I had a lentil soup.
Lentil soup is a big thing overthere.
It's so good and it's sosatisfying.
I had at least one meal where Ijust had a lentil soup and a
(08:25):
salad.
It was fresh and delicious andincredible.
Yeah, you wouldn't have anyproblem making it as a
vegetarian.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So what did you do when you were there?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
We went to the bazaar which is right, which was right
outside of our hotel actually,and it was so cool.
It was very much like what youwould expect from a grand bazaar
in Istanbul type of experience,but it was much more local and
homey and you could tell that itwas frequented by people who
actually lived there.
(08:54):
There was a lot less agl typeof experiences where people
would try to pull you inside.
You could just roam freely andit was just a really beautiful
local vibe.
I guess it's the best way I candescribe it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Did you buy anything at the bazaar?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I was getting pretty thin on the space in my bag, but
I did buy some Turkish towels.
I'm such a sucker for scarveswhen I travel and I always love
to buy flat art from localartists, if that makes sense no
it does, I love doing that.
Print?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I like to buy an art printor things like that, so I bought
(09:31):
one of those in Bursa as well.
So, yeah, that was really great.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What else did you do there?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Oh gosh, my very favorite thing possibly of the
whole trip, to be honest.
We went to a Mevlana experiencemeditation, also known as a
whirling dervish, as most peoplewould probably recognize it, as
I remember very distinctlygoing to one when I was a kid in
Turkey, so it was reallyimportant to me to go as an
adult.
So when we were in Konia Iwanted to go, but it was only
(10:00):
available on a day that weweren't there, because that's
the one that I saw when I was akid.
But when we were going to Bursa, I did some research and I
found one that was just a localone through the cultural center
that they do every night andit's free to whoever wants to
come.
But there's really not.
It's not tourist directed, it'sjust a meditation that they do
locally and it's to preserve thehistory and to respect the
(10:24):
history of the meditation andIslam and that sort of thing,
and so I really was excited togo to that and the greatest part
of it was it was such abeautiful moment of what we do
in life.
When we travel, we are alwayslooking for that true cultural
experience.
We're always looking for thereal local thing, and I really
(10:45):
found it there.
This could have been a churchbasement anywhere in America,
for example.
The way that they ran it, thethere were kids running around
chasing each other, playing tag.
Before the whole thing youcould tell it was a very family
environment.
And then people were sowelcoming.
We were given tea everywhere inTurkey, but especially at this
(11:08):
experience of the mevlana.
They kept welcoming us,encouraging us to sit in a
certain spot so we would get thebest view.
There was a seventh grade girlwho came up and wanted to
practice her English with me andshe was just so sweet, kept
hugging me and saying that wewere friends and it was just a
beautiful moment, you know.
(11:28):
And her mom kept thanking meand, yeah, I just.
It was such a beautifulexperience, even before they got
to the actual whirling, dervishportion of things, that my
heart was just so full.
And then by the time weactually saw the I hesitate to
say performance, but that'sreally the only way to describe
it.
But by the time we got to thatactual point in the evening, I
(11:49):
was already so overcome withgratitude that just seeing that
experience really made the wholetrip for me.
I was so thankful and gratefulto be there hmm, that's a really
beautiful story.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
For anyone who doesn't know what the whirling
dervish are, how would youexplain that?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
This will tie into my experience in Konya, because
when we were in Konya, that iswhere the mevlana or mevlavi, I
believe that's what it is calledbegan, and many people will
recognize the poet Rumi he wasfrom Konya and His teachings and
sort of philosophies on life,that's what they founded, the
(12:27):
order of the mevlavi and themevlana after him.
What happens during thewhirling dervish is when they go
into a bit of a, the meditativetrance, and it's a very
religious experience for themand they spin for probably a
good 20 30 minutes.
It's pretty remarkable to watchbecause if that were me, I
would definitely fall over.
(12:47):
They have adults and children.
In the group that we werewatching there were three kids
that were spinning as well,which was pretty remarkable, and
it's it all ties into thisrespectful Meditation that was
created in honor of Rumi and youcan actually go to visit Rumi's
tomb in Konya, which we didwhen we were there at the
(13:10):
mevlana mevlana, excuse memuseum.
So it all kind of ties in andthis is a very culturally
beautiful thing that happens allaround Turkey.
However, I really encouragepeople to see it, either in
Konya or to find an experiencelike what we did, because a lot
of them are tourist geared andit's something that you pay for
and you just go see it.
Not that there's any disrespectto the ritual I'm sure it's
(13:31):
still very meaningful but Ifound that this was very
personalized, very localized andjust incredibly meaningful and
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Do you have any other stories you want to share about
your locals Gosh?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
so many.
Oh, I had this really cool guythat we met in Cappadocia.
He owned the hotel that westayed at.
It would spend in his familyforever.
Just, I will give a plug forhim because he's just incredible
.
It was called the vineyard cavesuites and his name is Osman and
he is such a remarkable guy.
(14:02):
He would literally.
He has this, this notebook withall these different languages,
and he color codes the differentlanguages and he practices, and
so if a person comes in fromChina, we were having breakfast
in the breakfast room onemorning and this gentleman came
in from China and he's young, hehouse.
I'll show how you know just whythis incredible man from Turkey
(14:25):
is learning all these differentlanguages so that he can
provide a better service andjust, not just that, but a
connection to his guests.
Like, where in the world areyou gonna find somebody like
that?
Just such a cool person.
And we ended up taking a tourthat his father led and his
father had grown up in the areaof Goremi and he showed me all
(14:46):
these these different places.
But he remembers back whenpeople still lived in the cave
dwellings In Goremi, becausethat really only stopped being
allowed, I think, in the 50s.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Wow, that sounds like metara in Italy.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, exactly and just to have this guy who had
actually lived or had hisparents live in these Dwellings
and to really get an inside tourfrom him.
It was remarkable, it reallywas.
And yeah, I just that struck mebecause, you know, when you go
someplace in capitokia it isextremely touristy.
That is what the whole economyis based on, so you're not
(15:21):
necessarily expecting superpersonalized service.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That sounds like a really special experience.
Also, you mentioned that he wasgreeting people at breakfast.
Did you?
Was there a typical Turkishbreakfast that you were having
at these places, that particular?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
place.
It was all laid out on thetable but they had different
nuts and meats, and seeds, andfruits and granola and
everything you could possiblyimagine.
And then he made omelets for uswhich were enormous.
We finally learned after thefirst day to only order one
omelet because there was no waywe could eat it.
But yeah, I was just filledwith so many delicious things
(15:57):
and everywhere we stayed allaround Turkey had some sort of
variation on that theme.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Cappadocia.
It's famous for its hot airballoon rides, and I think you
had planned on doing it, but youweren't able to.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right.
So what happens every day?
And because I traveled inJanuary, I knew that this was a
high possibility Every day thegovernment decides whether or
not it's allowed for theballoons to go, so it's not up
to the tour operators, which Ithink is probably best.
So every day I would get a textsaying it's been canceled for
tomorrow.
We had three days in Cappadociaand they do recommend that you
(16:31):
plan on at least three daysthere, because it is there are
days that the balloons don't fly.
But ultimately, after the threedays, the balloons didn't fly
any of the days and in some wayswhen I first planned the trip
if I had known that in advance,I might have felt a little bit
of disappointment.
But Cappadocia is such a coolplace, whether you take the
balloon ride or not, thathonestly, while I did expect or
(16:54):
I should say I did feel a littlebit disappointed it really did
not impact my experience there.
I still would have gone andthat just gives me good
incentive to go back.
But one tip I did want to sharethat I'm not sure a lot of
people know, because I didn'tknow this is they actually do
balloon rides in Pamukkale aswell, and I only know that
because when I opened our windowone morning, I looked out and
there were a bunch of balloonsoutside.
(17:15):
I'm not a bunch, there were afew.
It's not the same level ofspectacle as what happens in
Cappadocia.
Of course there's I don't evenknow how many balloons go up
many balloons.
There was maybe only three orfour, but if it's an experience
that you really want to have,then you're going through both
regions.
Definitely investigatePamukkale, because they have
them there as well, which I didnot know until I got there.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, cappadocia is Instagram city when it comes to
hot air balloon, so perhapsPamukkale could be a nice
alternative.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Definitely.
I'm sure it's less expensivetoo, because it is quite
expensive in Cappadocia.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So what else did you do in Cappadocia, then, since
you weren't able to do the hotair balloon?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I have the museum oh gosh, the name is escaping me
right now, but you'll knowexactly.
I think it's called the GoremiOpen Air Museum actually, now
that I think about it and thatis.
You go in and it's justremarkable.
There are church spaces You'renot really allowed to take
photos inside of those but it'sjust all carved into the rock.
It's where the cave dwellingsexisted that people lived in,
(18:17):
like I said, up until the 50s,which is so crazy when you think
about it.
There's also there's Jeep toursand things that they'll take
you out to the further reachesof the region to see more rugged
areas, which, in retrospect, Ido recommend.
If you want to go out there,you should take a Jeep, because
we had our tour guide drive ourcar.
(18:41):
Okay, the day that we went onour tour and I was getting a
little bit nervous when hestarted driving over some of
these spots and hitting boomalong the way.
Luckily I took out fullcoverage, but anyway.
So we did not take a Jeep tour,but in retrospect that might
not be a bad idea.
So there's a lot of things todo there.
There is actually a WarlingDervish show there as well,
(19:03):
which they'll come pick you upfrom your hotel we didn't do it
there, but I know it exists andalso just really a lot of great
shopping.
There's the Uchisar Castle,which is really neat, which is
the town over from Goremi.
And please, folks from Turkey,please forgive me if I am
mispronouncing the names of yourbeloved country.
I do appreciate your patiencewith me.
(19:23):
Yeah, it's just a verybeautiful region and really we
found plenty to do in three days, the three days that we were
there.
One hot tip I will say if youlike Turkish towels, definitely
buy them there.
Buy them either in Goremi or Ithink I bought some in Bursa as
well because they're prettyexpensive when you buy them,
like, for example, in the US.
(19:44):
I bought them for like $15 overthere and they're absolutely
gorgeous.
In fact, I gave you one as apresent.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I love it, yes, I love it, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, absolutely so.
Yeah, I bought as many as mysuitcase would hold.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Did you end up going on a hot air balloon in
Pamukkale?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
No, because by the time I realized they did it, we
were really only going to bethere that day.
So yeah, we were a little bittight on our time.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But next time.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I'll definitely plan for it.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
What did you do when you were there?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So we visited Pamukkale, of course, which is
the actual travertines.
They call it the, I think Icall it the.
It's not Sam Castle, but it'ssomething castle.
Forgive me for not rememberingnow, but it is these travertines
filled with the bluest waterand it's so hard to explain it
(20:32):
unless you really should.
If you haven't been there, youreally should just google it.
The water just cascades downfrom these travertines and it's
just absolutely beautiful.
And when you visit the site,you have to do it completely
barefoot because they don't wantto cause any damage to the
travertines themselves, so itcan be a little slippery.
You definitely need to becareful when you're walking
(20:52):
along there, but it's verybeautiful and definitely worth
going.
And the neat thing aboutPamukkali is it's actually
bundled into the ancient city,hierapolis or Hierapolis, which
was remarkable.
I actually loved that city.
We spent probably four hourswandering around there.
It has an incredible just.
(21:13):
The ruins there are trulyincredible.
I don't even really know how todescribe it.
It definitely ranked up withDelphi to me personally, like
that level of beauty, or evenEphesus.
To some extent it's differentthan Ephesus, but it's really a
beautiful city and I highlyencourage people to go see it.
It also contains.
For those who are interested inbiblical history, there is two
(21:37):
cities in the Pamukkali areathat are mentioned in the book
of Revelation.
One is Hierapolis and the otherone is I believe it's Laodicea,
but I am possibly pronouncingthat incorrectly.
That particular city isactually mentioned as one of the
seven churches in Asia in thebook of Revelation.
So for those who are reallyinterested in the biblical
(21:57):
history and the significance ofthat, it's very cool to be in
these spaces and see thesethings that were directly out of
the Bible.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
The natural beauty in just the history sounds
incredible.
I think they have thermal bathsthere as well.
Were you guys floating around?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
We didn't.
It was a little chilly and wewere short on time, but you
certainly can do that.
That's the whole.
I guess, instead of focusing onthe word, travertine really is
explaining that it's a thermalbath, so when you walk it is,
the water is not cold, so itfeels nice.
It's really.
Yeah, it's a neat experience.
I would love to soak in theresometime.
Next time when I come back, I'mgoing to take a little longer
(22:37):
and spend more time in there.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I'm definitely going to join you for that.
Yes, please, some thermal bathsand history.
I don't know what else could bebetter on a trip.
Exactly exactly.
You would love it.
So you mentioned Ephesus, whichwas also part of your trip, but
that's been on my list forever,so please tell me what you got
to see there.
(22:58):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Ephesus has also been on my list forever and I'm so
glad we got to go, also glad.
A couple of quick tips.
There's nothing earthchattering, these are pretty
common sense things.
But definitely arrive as earlyas you possibly can, hopefully
when they first open.
Being there in January, itwasn't all that busy.
But if you want that sort ofbig photo that everybody wants
(23:20):
to Ephesus, the Library ofCelces, without a bunch of
people standing in front of itor climbing on it, it's
definitely best to get there assoon as they open.
But it was just I don't evenknow how to describe it going
and seeing that view of theLibrary of Celces and just
standing in front of it andseeing the intricacies of how it
was carved.
(23:40):
And you can also walk behind itand kind of get all the detail
from the back, because it'sreally just the facade of the
library that's left.
Everything else was lost tohistory.
But that, of course, is theshowstopper when you go there.
But there's also two bigtheaters.
One's quite a quite largetheater when you first walk into
(24:01):
Ephesus and then there's asmaller one at the very end of
the city.
Also, your ticket allows youinto the site but there's a
small fee for going into theterrace houses where the wealthy
used to live, and it's not verymuch, it's very small, it's 20
lira or something like that.
I highly recommend you spend theextra 20 lira and go in, or if
(24:21):
you have the museum pass forTurkey it will.
You can just use that to get in.
But what a remarkable site.
The mosaics that are fullyuncovered, that were completely
preserved, in there, seeing theterrace houses the higher you
climbed up, the more incredibleit got and definitely worth the
(24:42):
extra little bit of cost andtime and effort to climb up to
the top.
It's all enclosed, so there's aplatform that you walk all the
way up and you get to look downinto these houses of the wealthy
, and it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now, what is the time period of this place?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So I believe it was 10th century BC, and I believe
they've been excavated for about150 years, but they say that
80% or so of the ruins havereally yet to be excavated,
which is pretty crazy.
One thing I did want to mention, though, is nearby not on the
site of Ephesus, but nearby isthe Temple of Artemis, which is
(25:19):
one of the ancient wonders sorry, one of the seven wonders of
the ancient world, rather andall that's left is one column of
this particular temple, but itis quite striking and I
definitely recommend that yousee it.
It's free to see.
It's just right off one of themain roads in town and you can
just turn right off and go lookat it and wander around the
(25:39):
ruins there.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So definitely worth doing the house where they
brought Mary at the end of herlife was around there too.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, it's all in that same area, very easy to
drive to.
The house of the Virgin Mary isa little bit in the mountains,
but it is not a difficult driveat all and it's probably I don't
know 15-20 minutes from Ephesusproper.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, so it sounds like this is the type of trip
that you either need to have acar or you need to be part of a
tour or something.
It doesn't sound trainaccessible or bus accessible,
even.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Absolutely.
You definitely need a car orsome type of tour, especially if
you're going to do it in thistimeframe that we did.
In retrospect, I think I wouldhave done maybe a month in
Turkey instead of only two weeks, though, but again, it just
gives me good inspiration tocome back.
I tend to visit a place, digestit a little bit and then obsess
(26:31):
about it and then go back.
That's probably what I would dowith Turkey.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Did you stay in Ephesus, or was this just sort
of a place that you go for thehistorical sites and then you
stay elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
The town around Ephesus is actually called
Selcik and we stayed in Selcik,so it's only no-transcript.
10 minutes from the EphesusCity.
Ephesus really is just theruins, okay, so you don't stay
actually in that area, but yeah,the town around there is
Selchik.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Is there anything worth seeing in that town, or is
that kind of just a place wherepeople sleep when they're doing
other things?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
No, actually it's really cool.
There's a lot of veryinteresting things in the town.
There's a really cool mosquethat we went to there.
Also, there's some really greatrestaurants.
In fact, one of my favoriterestaurants I went to on the
whole trip was in the town andit's just called Ephesus
Restaurant.
It was right next to our hoteland it was delicious One of the
(27:28):
best meals we had in Turkey,actually.
So what did you have there?
It was this incredible shrimpdish that they cooked with
tomatoes and they cooked itinside of this clay pot, I guess
you could say and it was justabsolutely delicious.
It was so good.
You know the thing.
Much like cultures like Italyand things like that.
The simple things are so goodthere, like the bread is really
(27:50):
good, the salads are so freshand wonderful.
I know a lot of times I washesitant because I've been told
over time maybe not to eat theproduce over there because of
the water or what have you, butI really didn't have any
problems with salads.
They were so fresh and yummy.
Another area I wanted to bringup, though that was in the
Selchik area, is this littlehistorical area just in the
(28:12):
mountains called Sirense, and Imay be pronouncing that wrong,
but there's a lot of shoppingthere.
There's beautiful houses thatare built into the hill.
It's just a really uniquelittle area to go and wander
around and spend the day.
We were only able to stay for afew hours, but I would
definitely go back and spendmore time there.
There's a lot of actualartisans there, but there but it
(28:36):
doesn't feel just like yourbasic touristy kind of shopping
where you're just buyingsouvenirs.
I bought this absolutelygorgeous handmade backpack that
was sewn together.
It was this beautiful red color, this handmade latch that is on
it.
It was just really lovely.
And the man who made it he gaveme the card and told me this is
(28:57):
lifetime.
Anything you ever need, justlet me know and just it just
felt more authentic than just atypical touristy shopping
district.
I know there is a lot oftourists that come through there
, but it felt like there weremore real artisans there.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
To me, well, it sounds like another one of your
wonderful local experiences.
Yeah, definitely.
So we talked about Versa, wetalked about Ephesus.
We talked about PamukkaleKoenya.
What else did you like aboutKoenya that?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
is where the Mavlana Museum is and the Tomb of Rumi,
which I highly recommend you goand experience.
It's really beautiful and verypeaceful because they are paying
homage to the religious ritualof Mavlana, of Whirling Dervish.
But we had this such a goodmeal there.
(29:47):
It's really popular in thatarea to have sort of what's
called like a Turkish pizza, andit's this long, thin bit of
pita with meat or cheese orwhatever it is.
There's definitely vegetarianoptions as well, and it's just
really good and simple.
But I think the best thing inmost cultures are the simple
(30:08):
things, and I believe it'scalled Etli Ekmek in Turkish and
it's just so good I don't knowhow to describe it any better
than that.
It's simple and homey anddelicious and it feels very much
like, even though you're eatingit in a restaurant, you feel
like somebody's mom made it foryou.
You know what I mean which arealways the best kind of meals.
We also stayed at this reallylovely it was.
(30:28):
Basically it was a hotel, butit felt more like a B&B in a
traditional sense.
They just they were verywonderful people to be around
and they just were verywelcoming.
So I will definitely give youall the information of where we
stayed when we were there.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
It sounds like you saw a ton of natural beauty when
you were in Turkey.
What images stick out to youthe most?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And you're a photographer, a professional
photographer so I'm curious whatcaught your eye and what stayed
with you Everything everywhereI go I'm looking at patterns of
light and different objects andscenery, really just driving
between the sites there's a lotof space between things.
So you're driving for quite awhile, oftentimes driving
(31:15):
through mountainous regions.
Suddenly a beautiful lake willdisappear and one morning we
were driving along and westopped and there was this
gorgeous vista of mountains andthe lake there and there were
these gentlemen just in a smalllike fishing boat and it just
felt very idyllic.
And you'll see scenes like thatall over Turkey as you drive
(31:37):
through what's your favoritephoto that you took on this trip
.
Oh, that's a tough one, sarah,hitting me with the tough
questions, gosh, I honestly.
There were some from everywhere, which I know is a chicken out
answer, but one of the favoritesreally was when you go to in
front of the library of Celsusand Ephesus.
(31:58):
Of course you're going to takethe facade, but go ahead and
walk up on there and take a wideangled photo from below so that
you're shooting up toward thearches of the facade.
Just so much incredible detailunder there and absolutely one
of those sort of wow photos.
When you look back in here yousee just how big it is really
(32:22):
and how tall that space is.
It's not something you'd fullyappreciate when you're looking
right at it.
You got to kind of getunderneath it and see it.
That's definitely one.
But I mean I could, I couldhonestly pick a hundred photos
and still not have some favorite.
Yeah, it's just, everywhere isso visually simulating and
beautiful One one night.
One thing I did really love isthere's this beautiful covered
(32:45):
bridge sort of structure inBursa which really kind of
reminds me of Florence in a way,I don't know.
There's just a similarity to itand you can actually walk
through and there's shops oneither side, just like the Pona
Vecchio, you know, and thatbridge was really incredible
because there's sort of a valleyunderneath it that you can walk
(33:05):
down through the park and soyou can really get this sort of
wide full view of the bridgefrom a low spot.
So that just emphasizes thegrandeur of it.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, you've shared some really great experiences.
Are there any other must haveexperiences that you want to
mention that you haven't sharedyet?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know it's funny I've talked so much about Turkey
, but I have really notmentioned Istanbul very much,
and I think in some ways Ialmost don't need to, because
there's so much that was writtenand spoken about of Istanbul
which is absolutely worthy of it.
I think one of the most goosebump kind of inspiring moments
for me in Istanbul, though andit happened right in the middle
(33:47):
of Sultanahmet, which is themost tourist district, I would
say, in the city is when thecall to prayer happens between
the Blue Mosque and the Isophea.
They actually share it, so partof the call will happen at the
Isophea, and then it's all sortof like a call and response
between the two mosques, andthere's a huge like open space
(34:11):
between the two, but they'refacing each other.
So if you're standing in themiddle of that open space and
you're just hearing this call toprayer coming from the Isophea
and then again this responsefrom the Blue Mosque, it's just
so beautiful and grounding, andeven though I'm not someone who
practices Islam, I find hearingthe call to prayer five times a
(34:33):
day would center me in a waythat I had not really
experienced in other culturesbeing in that environment, even
if you're not necessarilypraying.
In that time it brought amindfulness to me, an awareness
of gratitude.
I would just stop and bethankful for that moment and it
(34:53):
was just really beautiful.
I find that aspect of theculture to be so fascinating and
hauntingly beautiful thehearing the different imams
doing the call, all differentsounds throughout the city,
because you'll hear, especiallyin a big city like Istanbul
you're going to hear theimmediate call to prayer that
you're listening to, but you'realso going to hear the echoes of
(35:13):
it happening all over the cityand I found that to be
incredibly impactful andbeautiful.
So that was one of my veryfavorite memories, which just
goes to show you places arereally touristy.
Places are touristy for areason.
I think sometimes you get a badrap because it's a really
visited place, but you can stillhave incredibly meaningful
experiences even in the midst ofthis really high touristy area.
(35:36):
Yeah, we saw a lot all thegreats in Istanbul, the Basilica
, sister, and all the places yougo to.
But really, just walking across, there is the bridge, across
the Golden Horn, where you'recrossing over the Bosphorus and
just watching the fishermen thatare hanging their poles off the
side and all the boats and thepeople I mean you're just never
(35:57):
going to get any better peoplewatching in Istanbul.
It's just such an incrediblecity and I feel very fortunate
to have been able to visit.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
You showed me these magnets that you got to keep
your scarf closed on your head.
So the mosques are definitelyworth visiting in Istanbul, but
the women have to cover up.
Do you want to tell me aboutyour attire?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Absolutely.
They offer scarves there ateach month.
Well, I shouldn't say everymosque does, but a lot
especially the big ones offerthings to cover your head there,
so if you forget something,don't worry.
For the most part, it's alsoeasy to pick up a scarf when
you're there.
But I wanted to bring somethingthat I wanted to make sure that
I was dressed appropriately andrespectfully, so I actually
(36:44):
bought a hijab from a companycalled Lala Hijabs.
I really love their verybeautiful scarves and they're
just a lovely family.
They're pretty popular onTikTok their name is the Saleh
family, but anyway, they sellthese great magnets just to hold
your hijab correctly.
I am by no means very good atputting a job on, so the magnets
(37:07):
were super helpful for me tokeep everything in place and
they're really strong and Iactually use them all the time
on.
If I'm wearing a sweater and Iwant to close it up more, I will
put my little magnet on, or ifa shirt is a little lower than
I'd like it to be, I'll pop amagnet there and they hold all
day and they're great.
So, yeah, they're very useful.
I never knew I needed hijabmagnets in my daily life, but I
(37:28):
use them quite often, I know.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I think that it sounds quite handy.
All right, michelle, the nexttime you go to Turkey, I'm
jumping in the car with you.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Listen, you're always welcome.
We've traveled before and we'lltravel again, and thanks for
having me at your houseAbsolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
All right, michelle.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Where can we find out moreabout you?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Well, my main website is MichelleMartinPhotographycom
.
I'm a full-time photographer,so that's where I am.
You can contact me throughthere.
I also have an Instagram page,which is at Michelle Martin
Photo, and I am on Facebook asMichelle Warner Martin, which
I'm always happy to acceptfriend requests from people who
(38:10):
are like-minded travelers andalways love to talk travel.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Thank you, michelle.
Come back and visit me soon.
Yes, I can't wait.
Talk to you soon.
That's all for now.
Go ahead and follow the show orhit subscribe so you can hear
more episodes like this and ifyou would like my help taking
bold action on your own dreamslike living abroad, changing
careers and other lifetransitions, visit Live Without
Borders Podcastcom.
(38:34):
Thanks for listening and have abeautiful week wherever you are
.
Welcome to Live Without Worders, a podcast about
how to live the good lifethrough stoicism, personal
development and culturalexploration.
I'm your host, sarah Mygitel,an American in England who's
here to help fellow citizens ofthe world like you make the most
of the brief time you have hereon Earth.
It is time to make every momentmatter.
Welcome, fellow citizen of theworld.
(00:25):
Today we are roadtrippingthrough Turkey with my friend,
michelle Warner Martin.
Michelle recently roadtrippedacross Turkey and she went to
Bursa, ephesus, pamukkale, konya, Istanbul, adana, merson,
kappadokia.
She went all over the place andshe's here today to highlight
the incredible experiences thatyou can have as well travelling
(00:45):
through Turkey.
Michelle is a weddingphotographer, which allows her
to travel in the off season,when things are less crowded and
also less expensive.
This is a great episode.
I hope you love it and if youhave any favorite Turkish
memories, feel free to email meor message me on Instagram.
I would love to hear yourtravel stories about Turkey On
with the show.
Welcome, michelle.
(01:06):
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Hey, thanks, sarah.
I'm excited to chat with you.
You just celebrated a bigbirthday in Turkey.
What made you decide to chooseTurkey?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I actually my birthday is coming up in June,
but I traveled this time of yearbecause I don't like hot
weather.
But yes, I will be turning 15June.
And when I was a kid I lived inAdana at Interlik Air Force
Base and those are my very firstmemories in life.
And there's a town about anhour from Adana called Merson
(01:39):
that has this castle in the sea.
It's called Kizkilesi, which Ibelieve does translate to castle
in the sea or on the sea.
And when I was about two yearsold, I have a photo of my mother
and I standing on that beach infront of that castle.
And the interesting thing fromthe shore, obviously the castle
is a bit off in the distance.
(01:59):
But the interesting thing aboutthat beach is I have my very,
really my very first memory fromthat beach.
I remember running along thebeach and my mom was in the
background saying get over here,you're running too far ahead,
you know.
And third off, a wave came inand knocked me down a bit and I
just remember my mom scooping meup and saying I told you not to
(02:20):
run ahead.
So that was just a reallyinteresting memory for me.
I lost my mom almost five yearsago, so it was extra meaningful
to be able to go back to thatspace and I took a picture of
myself holding the picture andit was really interesting
because the first night that wewent there there was another
gentleman walking around and hesaw my cousin traveled with me
(02:43):
and he saw me being photographedholding this picture and he
came over and talked to us andhe was so taken by the story
that he and proud I think reallybecause this is where he's from
that I would travel all the wayfrom the other side of the
world to experience this momentin time with this castle.
He wanted to take a photo withme and the picture, which was
(03:03):
really sweet and that's the kindof spirit that you get in
Turkey so hospitable, welcoming,loving, encouraging.
If you had a question, it waseverything that they could do to
help you.
And really I don't know verymuch Turkish.
I know enough to be polite, butI was able to go and have good
(03:24):
conversations with people, evenjust using the translate app.
They would sit down and youcould go back and forth and have
your questions answered andnobody ever seemed too busy to
take that time, which just is areally wonderful experience to
have when you're traveling, andyou can use the Google translate
app.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, a lot Very handy very handy, and I know that you
are an adventurous traveler.
You're fine doing solo trips orall sorts of different kinds of
trips.
Initially started out having agroup tour for this trip.
What happened with that?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So initially I decided to go on a group tour
because I wanted to just notthink too much about it and just
go and let someone else takecare of me.
But about a month and a half Iwould say before the tour, I got
a message saying oh, there'snot enough people for your date,
we're gonna cancel the tour andput you on another date or
(04:17):
cancel entirely.
So I started thinking about it,and I travel so much on my own
and I had already booked myflights, so I thought you know
what I can do this, let's justgo it alone.
And so I did and I planned itand it was actually really easy
and fun and I had a lot offlexibility that I wouldn't have
had otherwise.
So I'm really glad I did itthat way.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So give me an overview of how you spent your
two weeks, and then we can divedeeper into a few different
places.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So I went to Istanbul for four days, which was
amazing, of course.
So much to say about Istanbulthat I think we could have our
own show just about that.
But from there I did fly toKapadokia, which was also very
simple to do, a really easyflight about an hour just from
the main.
There's two airports inIstanbul, but I flew out of the
main IST as the airport code toKayseri, then rented a car and
(05:09):
drove for the next 12 days 11days all over the country.
So we started in Kapadokia.
Then I have a personalconnection to the Adana area,
also Merson, which is rightalong the coast, so I decided to
drive down there.
That's maybe not necessarily onthe specific tourist track of
most people, but I had wanted togo down there to see where I
(05:33):
lived when I was a child.
So I drove down there, had acouple of long days in the car
because I decided to do thatbecause it was quite a distance
and then from there we drove toKonya.
Konya is really a beautifulplace we'll talk a little bit
more about that but from there Idrove to Pamukkale and then to
Izmir and then went up to Bursaafter that and then back to
(05:58):
Istanbul and I rented the carfrom Kayseri, but I did a
one-way, so I picked it up inKayseri and dropped it off in
Istanbul.
So a lot of times it'sextremely expensive to do a
one-way car rental, but itactually wasn't outrageous in
Turkey, so I decided to just paythe extra.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I think it was two or three hundred dollars and just
do it, and you just rent this atthe airport and drop it back
off at the airport.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I picked it up in Kapadokia and I dropped it off
at the airport in Istanbul, sothat made it really easy because
Turkey is such a huge country.
It really would have beendifficult to try to circle back
unless I wanted to fly back fromKapadokia, which you certainly
could do, but it would have beena lot of driving.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I know that you really liked Bursa, so how about
we start there?
What about Bursa?
Appeal to you.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I loved all of it, of course, but Bursa, for some
reason, was the thing that kindof stole my heart, unexpectedly.
I tend to.
The more I travel, I tend torealize that I'm a fan of, in my
mind, what I call second cities, cities that maybe aren't as
enormous and overwhelming, sayin Istanbul or you know, a Rome
or London, that kind of thing.
(07:12):
I love those cities, of course,but they are very overwhelming.
So when you're going there fora short period of time,
sometimes it takes a lot to sortof orient yourself or really
get the essence of that locationright.
What I loved about Bursa isit's still a very big, thriving,
wonderful city, but it was soaccessible.
Also, bursa is where they, theIskender kebab, is from.
(07:34):
We had that there and it was sogood.
I also had it in Istanbul aswell, but I don't know.
Just having it in Bursa seemedextra cool.
But if you're not familiar withIskender kebab, it's just
basically meat with bread cubesunderneath that.
They pour butter over it, whichsounds weird, but it's amazing.
And then there's this tomatoeykind of sauce that goes over all
(07:56):
of it and it is so good.
You definitely need to have it.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
What can us vegetarian tab?
Or is there a halloumi wrap orsomething over there?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Not halloumi necessarily.
Halloumi is my great love, so,trust me, if I found halloumi I
would have had it.
But there is so much fresh,delicious food there that I
wouldn't see having an issueeating vegetarian there at all.
I had a lentil soup.
Lentil soup is a big thing overthere.
It's so good and it's sosatisfying.
I had at least one meal where Ijust had a lentil soup and a
(08:25):
salad.
It was fresh and delicious andincredible.
Yeah, you wouldn't have anyproblem making it as a
vegetarian.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So what did you do when you were there?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
We went to the bazaar which is right, which was right
outside of our hotel actually,and it was so cool.
It was very much like what youwould expect from a grand bazaar
in Istanbul type of experience,but it was much more local and
homey and you could tell that itwas frequented by people who
actually lived there.
(08:54):
There was a lot less agl typeof experiences where people
would try to pull you inside.
You could just roam freely andit was just a really beautiful
local vibe.
I guess it's the best way I candescribe it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Did you buy anything at the bazaar?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I was getting pretty thin on the space in my bag, but
I did buy some Turkish towels.
I'm such a sucker for scarveswhen I travel and I always love
to buy flat art from localartists, if that makes sense no
it does, I love doing that.
Print?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I like to buy an art printor things like that, so I bought
(09:31):
one of those in Bursa as well.
So, yeah, that was really great.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What else did you do there?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Oh gosh, my very favorite thing possibly of the
whole trip, to be honest.
We went to a Mevlana experiencemeditation, also known as a
whirling dervish, as most peoplewould probably recognize it, as
I remember very distinctlygoing to one when I was a kid in
Turkey, so it was reallyimportant to me to go as an
adult.
So when we were in Konia Iwanted to go, but it was only
(10:00):
available on a day that weweren't there, because that's
the one that I saw when I was akid.
But when we were going to Bursa, I did some research and I
found one that was just a localone through the cultural center
that they do every night andit's free to whoever wants to
come.
But there's really not.
It's not tourist directed, it'sjust a meditation that they do
locally and it's to preserve thehistory and to respect the
(10:24):
history of the meditation andIslam and that sort of thing,
and so I really was excited togo to that and the greatest part
of it was it was such abeautiful moment of what we do
in life.
When we travel, we are alwayslooking for that true cultural
experience.
We're always looking for thereal local thing, and I really
(10:45):
found it there.
This could have been a churchbasement anywhere in America,
for example.
The way that they ran it, thethere were kids running around
chasing each other, playing tag.
Before the whole thing youcould tell it was a very family
environment.
And then people were sowelcoming.
We were given tea everywhere inTurkey, but especially at this
(11:08):
experience of the mevlana.
They kept welcoming us,encouraging us to sit in a
certain spot so we would get thebest view.
There was a seventh grade girlwho came up and wanted to
practice her English with me andshe was just so sweet, kept
hugging me and saying that wewere friends and it was just a
beautiful moment, you know.
(11:28):
And her mom kept thanking meand, yeah, I just.
It was such a beautifulexperience, even before they got
to the actual whirling, dervishportion of things, that my
heart was just so full.
And then by the time weactually saw the I hesitate to
say performance, but that'sreally the only way to describe
it.
But by the time we got to thatactual point in the evening, I
(11:49):
was already so overcome withgratitude that just seeing that
experience really made the wholetrip for me.
I was so thankful and gratefulto be there hmm, that's a really
beautiful story.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
For anyone who doesn't know what the whirling
dervish are, how would youexplain that?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
This will tie into my experience in Konya, because
when we were in Konya, that iswhere the mevlana or mevlavi, I
believe that's what it is calledbegan, and many people will
recognize the poet Rumi he wasfrom Konya and His teachings and
sort of philosophies on life,that's what they founded, the
(12:27):
order of the mevlavi and themevlana after him.
What happens during thewhirling dervish is when they go
into a bit of a, the meditativetrance, and it's a very
religious experience for themand they spin for probably a
good 20 30 minutes.
It's pretty remarkable to watchbecause if that were me, I
would definitely fall over.
(12:47):
They have adults and children.
In the group that we werewatching there were three kids
that were spinning as well,which was pretty remarkable, and
it's it all ties into thisrespectful Meditation that was
created in honor of Rumi and youcan actually go to visit Rumi's
tomb in Konya, which we didwhen we were there at the
(13:10):
mevlana mevlana, excuse memuseum.
So it all kind of ties in andthis is a very culturally
beautiful thing that happens allaround Turkey.
However, I really encouragepeople to see it, either in
Konya or to find an experiencelike what we did, because a lot
of them are tourist geared andit's something that you pay for
and you just go see it.
Not that there's any disrespectto the ritual I'm sure it's
(13:31):
still very meaningful but Ifound that this was very
personalized, very localized andjust incredibly meaningful and
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Do you have any other stories you want to share about
your locals Gosh?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
so many.
Oh, I had this really cool guythat we met in Cappadocia.
He owned the hotel that westayed at.
It would spend in his familyforever.
Just, I will give a plug forhim because he's just incredible
.
It was called the vineyard cavesuites and his name is Osman and
he is such a remarkable guy.
(14:02):
He would literally.
He has this, this notebook withall these different languages,
and he color codes the differentlanguages and he practices, and
so if a person comes in fromChina, we were having breakfast
in the breakfast room onemorning and this gentleman came
in from China and he's young, hehouse.
I'll show how you know just whythis incredible man from Turkey
(14:25):
is learning all these differentlanguages so that he can
provide a better service andjust, not just that, but a
connection to his guests.
Like, where in the world areyou gonna find somebody like
that?
Just such a cool person.
And we ended up taking a tourthat his father led and his
father had grown up in the areaof Goremi and he showed me all
(14:46):
these these different places.
But he remembers back whenpeople still lived in the cave
dwellings In Goremi, becausethat really only stopped being
allowed, I think, in the 50s.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Wow, that sounds like metara in Italy.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, exactly and just to have this guy who had
actually lived or had hisparents live in these Dwellings
and to really get an inside tourfrom him.
It was remarkable, it reallywas.
And yeah, I just that struck mebecause, you know, when you go
someplace in capitokia it isextremely touristy.
That is what the whole economyis based on, so you're not
(15:21):
necessarily expecting superpersonalized service.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That sounds like a really special experience.
Also, you mentioned that he wasgreeting people at breakfast.
Did you?
Was there a typical Turkishbreakfast that you were having
at these places, that particular?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
place.
It was all laid out on thetable but they had different
nuts and meats, and seeds, andfruits and granola and
everything you could possiblyimagine.
And then he made omelets for uswhich were enormous.
We finally learned after thefirst day to only order one
omelet because there was no waywe could eat it.
But yeah, I was just filledwith so many delicious things
(15:57):
and everywhere we stayed allaround Turkey had some sort of
variation on that theme.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Cappadocia.
It's famous for its hot airballoon rides, and I think you
had planned on doing it, but youweren't able to.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right.
So what happens every day?
And because I traveled inJanuary, I knew that this was a
high possibility Every day thegovernment decides whether or
not it's allowed for theballoons to go, so it's not up
to the tour operators, which Ithink is probably best.
So every day I would get a textsaying it's been canceled for
tomorrow.
We had three days in Cappadociaand they do recommend that you
(16:31):
plan on at least three daysthere, because it is there are
days that the balloons don't fly.
But ultimately, after the threedays, the balloons didn't fly
any of the days and in some wayswhen I first planned the trip
if I had known that in advance,I might have felt a little bit
of disappointment.
But Cappadocia is such a coolplace, whether you take the
balloon ride or not, thathonestly, while I did expect or
(16:54):
I should say I did feel a littlebit disappointed it really did
not impact my experience there.
I still would have gone andthat just gives me good
incentive to go back.
But one tip I did want to sharethat I'm not sure a lot of
people know, because I didn'tknow this is they actually do
balloon rides in Pamukkale aswell, and I only know that
because when I opened our windowone morning, I looked out and
there were a bunch of balloonsoutside.
(17:15):
I'm not a bunch, there were afew.
It's not the same level ofspectacle as what happens in
Cappadocia.
Of course there's I don't evenknow how many balloons go up
many balloons.
There was maybe only three orfour, but if it's an experience
that you really want to have,then you're going through both
regions.
Definitely investigatePamukkale, because they have
them there as well, which I didnot know until I got there.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, cappadocia is Instagram city when it comes to
hot air balloon, so perhapsPamukkale could be a nice
alternative.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Definitely.
I'm sure it's less expensivetoo, because it is quite
expensive in Cappadocia.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
So what else did you do in Cappadocia, then, since
you weren't able to do the hotair balloon?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I have the museum oh gosh, the name is escaping me
right now, but you'll knowexactly.
I think it's called the GoremiOpen Air Museum actually, now
that I think about it and thatis.
You go in and it's justremarkable.
There are church spaces You'renot really allowed to take
photos inside of those but it'sjust all carved into the rock.
It's where the cave dwellingsexisted that people lived in,
(18:17):
like I said, up until the 50s,which is so crazy when you think
about it.
There's also there's Jeep toursand things that they'll take
you out to the further reachesof the region to see more rugged
areas, which, in retrospect, Ido recommend.
If you want to go out there,you should take a Jeep, because
we had our tour guide drive ourcar.
(18:41):
Okay, the day that we went onour tour and I was getting a
little bit nervous when hestarted driving over some of
these spots and hitting boomalong the way.
Luckily I took out fullcoverage, but anyway.
So we did not take a Jeep tour,but in retrospect that might
not be a bad idea.
So there's a lot of things todo there.
There is actually a WarlingDervish show there as well,
(19:03):
which they'll come pick you upfrom your hotel we didn't do it
there, but I know it exists andalso just really a lot of great
shopping.
There's the Uchisar Castle,which is really neat, which is
the town over from Goremi.
And please, folks from Turkey,please forgive me if I am
mispronouncing the names of yourbeloved country.
I do appreciate your patiencewith me.
(19:23):
Yeah, it's just a verybeautiful region and really we
found plenty to do in three days, the three days that we were
there.
One hot tip I will say if youlike Turkish towels, definitely
buy them there.
Buy them either in Goremi or Ithink I bought some in Bursa as
well because they're prettyexpensive when you buy them,
like, for example, in the US.
(19:44):
I bought them for like $15 overthere and they're absolutely
gorgeous.
In fact, I gave you one as apresent.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I love it, yes, I love it, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, absolutely so.
Yeah, I bought as many as mysuitcase would hold.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Did you end up going on a hot air balloon in
Pamukkale?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
No, because by the time I realized they did it, we
were really only going to bethere that day.
So yeah, we were a little bittight on our time.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
But next time.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I'll definitely plan for it.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
What did you do when you were there?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So we visited Pamukkale, of course, which is
the actual travertines.
They call it the, I think Icall it the.
It's not Sam Castle, but it'ssomething castle.
Forgive me for not rememberingnow, but it is these travertines
filled with the bluest waterand it's so hard to explain it
(20:32):
unless you really should.
If you haven't been there, youreally should just google it.
The water just cascades downfrom these travertines and it's
just absolutely beautiful.
And when you visit the site,you have to do it completely
barefoot because they don't wantto cause any damage to the
travertines themselves, so itcan be a little slippery.
You definitely need to becareful when you're walking
(20:52):
along there, but it's verybeautiful and definitely worth
going.
And the neat thing aboutPamukkali is it's actually
bundled into the ancient city,hierapolis or Hierapolis, which
was remarkable.
I actually loved that city.
We spent probably four hourswandering around there.
It has an incredible just.
(21:13):
The ruins there are trulyincredible.
I don't even really know how todescribe it.
It definitely ranked up withDelphi to me personally, like
that level of beauty, or evenEphesus.
To some extent it's differentthan Ephesus, but it's really a
beautiful city and I highlyencourage people to go see it.
It also contains.
For those who are interested inbiblical history, there is two
(21:37):
cities in the Pamukkali areathat are mentioned in the book
of Revelation.
One is Hierapolis and the otherone is I believe it's Laodicea,
but I am possibly pronouncingthat incorrectly.
That particular city isactually mentioned as one of the
seven churches in Asia in thebook of Revelation.
So for those who are reallyinterested in the biblical
(21:57):
history and the significance ofthat, it's very cool to be in
these spaces and see thesethings that were directly out of
the Bible.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
The natural beauty in just the history sounds
incredible.
I think they have thermal bathsthere as well.
Were you guys floating around?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
We didn't.
It was a little chilly and wewere short on time, but you
certainly can do that.
That's the whole.
I guess, instead of focusing onthe word, travertine really is
explaining that it's a thermalbath, so when you walk it is,
the water is not cold, so itfeels nice.
It's really.
Yeah, it's a neat experience.
I would love to soak in theresometime.
Next time when I come back, I'mgoing to take a little longer
(22:37):
and spend more time in there.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I'm definitely going to join you for that.
Yes, please, some thermal bathsand history.
I don't know what else could bebetter on a trip.
Exactly exactly.
You would love it.
So you mentioned Ephesus, whichwas also part of your trip, but
that's been on my list forever,so please tell me what you got
to see there.
(22:58):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Ephesus has also been on my list forever and I'm so
glad we got to go, also glad.
A couple of quick tips.
There's nothing earthchattering, these are pretty
common sense things.
But definitely arrive as earlyas you possibly can, hopefully
when they first open.
Being there in January, itwasn't all that busy.
But if you want that sort ofbig photo that everybody wants
(23:20):
to Ephesus, the Library ofCelces, without a bunch of
people standing in front of itor climbing on it, it's
definitely best to get there assoon as they open.
But it was just I don't evenknow how to describe it going
and seeing that view of theLibrary of Celces and just
standing in front of it andseeing the intricacies of how it
was carved.
(23:40):
And you can also walk behind itand kind of get all the detail
from the back, because it'sreally just the facade of the
library that's left.
Everything else was lost tohistory.
But that, of course, is theshowstopper when you go there.
But there's also two bigtheaters.
One's quite a quite largetheater when you first walk into
(24:01):
Ephesus and then there's asmaller one at the very end of
the city.
Also, your ticket allows youinto the site but there's a
small fee for going into theterrace houses where the wealthy
used to live, and it's not verymuch, it's very small, it's 20
lira or something like that.
I highly recommend you spend theextra 20 lira and go in, or if
(24:21):
you have the museum pass forTurkey it will.
You can just use that to get in.
But what a remarkable site.
The mosaics that are fullyuncovered, that were completely
preserved, in there, seeing theterrace houses the higher you
climbed up, the more incredibleit got and definitely worth the
(24:42):
extra little bit of cost andtime and effort to climb up to
the top.
It's all enclosed, so there's aplatform that you walk all the
way up and you get to look downinto these houses of the wealthy
, and it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now, what is the time period of this place?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So I believe it was 10th century BC, and I believe
they've been excavated for about150 years, but they say that
80% or so of the ruins havereally yet to be excavated,
which is pretty crazy.
One thing I did want to mention, though, is nearby not on the
site of Ephesus, but nearby isthe Temple of Artemis, which is
(25:19):
one of the ancient wonders sorry, one of the seven wonders of
the ancient world, rather andall that's left is one column of
this particular temple, but itis quite striking and I
definitely recommend that yousee it.
It's free to see.
It's just right off one of themain roads in town and you can
just turn right off and go lookat it and wander around the
(25:39):
ruins there.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So definitely worth doing the house where they
brought Mary at the end of herlife was around there too.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, it's all in that same area, very easy to
drive to.
The house of the Virgin Mary isa little bit in the mountains,
but it is not a difficult driveat all and it's probably I don't
know 15-20 minutes from Ephesusproper.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, so it sounds like this is the type of trip
that you either need to have acar or you need to be part of a
tour or something.
It doesn't sound trainaccessible or bus accessible,
even.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Absolutely.
You definitely need a car orsome type of tour, especially if
you're going to do it in thistimeframe that we did.
In retrospect, I think I wouldhave done maybe a month in
Turkey instead of only two weeks, though, but again, it just
gives me good inspiration tocome back.
I tend to visit a place, digestit a little bit and then obsess
(26:31):
about it and then go back.
That's probably what I would dowith Turkey.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Did you stay in Ephesus, or was this just sort
of a place that you go for thehistorical sites and then you
stay elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
The town around Ephesus is actually called
Selcik and we stayed in Selcik,so it's only no-transcript.
10 minutes from the EphesusCity.
Ephesus really is just theruins, okay, so you don't stay
actually in that area, but yeah,the town around there is
Selchik.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Is there anything worth seeing in that town, or is
that kind of just a place wherepeople sleep when they're doing
other things?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
No, actually it's really cool.
There's a lot of veryinteresting things in the town.
There's a really cool mosquethat we went to there.
Also, there's some really greatrestaurants.
In fact, one of my favoriterestaurants I went to on the
whole trip was in the town andit's just called Ephesus
Restaurant.
It was right next to our hoteland it was delicious One of the
(27:28):
best meals we had in Turkey,actually.
So what did you have there?
It was this incredible shrimpdish that they cooked with
tomatoes and they cooked itinside of this clay pot, I guess
you could say and it was justabsolutely delicious.
It was so good.
You know the thing.
Much like cultures like Italyand things like that.
The simple things are so goodthere, like the bread is really
(27:50):
good, the salads are so freshand wonderful.
I know a lot of times I washesitant because I've been told
over time maybe not to eat theproduce over there because of
the water or what have you, butI really didn't have any
problems with salads.
They were so fresh and yummy.
Another area I wanted to bringup, though that was in the
Selchik area, is this littlehistorical area just in the
(28:12):
mountains called Sirense, and Imay be pronouncing that wrong,
but there's a lot of shoppingthere.
There's beautiful houses thatare built into the hill.
It's just a really uniquelittle area to go and wander
around and spend the day.
We were only able to stay for afew hours, but I would
definitely go back and spendmore time there.
There's a lot of actualartisans there, but there but it
(28:36):
doesn't feel just like yourbasic touristy kind of shopping
where you're just buyingsouvenirs.
I bought this absolutelygorgeous handmade backpack that
was sewn together.
It was this beautiful red color, this handmade latch that is on
it.
It was just really lovely.
And the man who made it he gaveme the card and told me this is
(28:57):
lifetime.
Anything you ever need, justlet me know and just it just
felt more authentic than just atypical touristy shopping
district.
I know there is a lot oftourists that come through there
, but it felt like there weremore real artisans there.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
To me, well, it sounds like another one of your
wonderful local experiences.
Yeah, definitely.
So we talked about Versa, wetalked about Ephesus.
We talked about PamukkaleKoenya.
What else did you like aboutKoenya that?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
is where the Mavlana Museum is and the Tomb of Rumi,
which I highly recommend you goand experience.
It's really beautiful and verypeaceful because they are paying
homage to the religious ritualof Mavlana, of Whirling Dervish.
But we had this such a goodmeal there.
(29:47):
It's really popular in thatarea to have sort of what's
called like a Turkish pizza, andit's this long, thin bit of
pita with meat or cheese orwhatever it is.
There's definitely vegetarianoptions as well, and it's just
really good and simple.
But I think the best thing inmost cultures are the simple
(30:08):
things, and I believe it'scalled Etli Ekmek in Turkish and
it's just so good I don't knowhow to describe it any better
than that.
It's simple and homey anddelicious and it feels very much
like, even though you're eatingit in a restaurant, you feel
like somebody's mom made it foryou.
You know what I mean which arealways the best kind of meals.
We also stayed at this reallylovely it was.
(30:28):
Basically it was a hotel, butit felt more like a B&B in a
traditional sense.
They just they were verywonderful people to be around
and they just were verywelcoming.
So I will definitely give youall the information of where we
stayed when we were there.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
It sounds like you saw a ton of natural beauty when
you were in Turkey.
What images stick out to youthe most?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And you're a photographer, a professional
photographer so I'm curious whatcaught your eye and what stayed
with you Everything everywhereI go I'm looking at patterns of
light and different objects andscenery, really just driving
between the sites there's a lotof space between things.
So you're driving for quite awhile, oftentimes driving
(31:15):
through mountainous regions.
Suddenly a beautiful lake willdisappear and one morning we
were driving along and westopped and there was this
gorgeous vista of mountains andthe lake there and there were
these gentlemen just in a smalllike fishing boat and it just
felt very idyllic.
And you'll see scenes like thatall over Turkey as you drive
(31:37):
through what's your favoritephoto that you took on this trip
.
Oh, that's a tough one, sarah,hitting me with the tough
questions, gosh, I honestly.
There were some from everywhere, which I know is a chicken out
answer, but one of the favoritesreally was when you go to in
front of the library of Celsusand Ephesus.
(31:58):
Of course you're going to takethe facade, but go ahead and
walk up on there and take a wideangled photo from below so that
you're shooting up toward thearches of the facade.
Just so much incredible detailunder there and absolutely one
of those sort of wow photos.
When you look back in here yousee just how big it is really
(32:22):
and how tall that space is.
It's not something you'd fullyappreciate when you're looking
right at it.
You got to kind of getunderneath it and see it.
That's definitely one.
But I mean I could, I couldhonestly pick a hundred photos
and still not have some favorite.
Yeah, it's just, everywhere isso visually simulating and
beautiful One one night.
One thing I did really love isthere's this beautiful covered
(32:45):
bridge sort of structure inBursa which really kind of
reminds me of Florence in a way,I don't know.
There's just a similarity to itand you can actually walk
through and there's shops oneither side, just like the Pona
Vecchio, you know, and thatbridge was really incredible
because there's sort of a valleyunderneath it that you can walk
(33:05):
down through the park and soyou can really get this sort of
wide full view of the bridgefrom a low spot.
So that just emphasizes thegrandeur of it.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, you've shared some really great experiences.
Are there any other must haveexperiences that you want to
mention that you haven't sharedyet?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know it's funny I've talked so much about Turkey
, but I have really notmentioned Istanbul very much,
and I think in some ways Ialmost don't need to, because
there's so much that was writtenand spoken about of Istanbul
which is absolutely worthy of it.
I think one of the most goosebump kind of inspiring moments
for me in Istanbul, though andit happened right in the middle
(33:47):
of Sultanahmet, which is themost tourist district, I would
say, in the city is when thecall to prayer happens between
the Blue Mosque and the Isophea.
They actually share it, so partof the call will happen at the
Isophea, and then it's all sortof like a call and response
between the two mosques, andthere's a huge like open space
(34:11):
between the two, but they'refacing each other.
So if you're standing in themiddle of that open space and
you're just hearing this call toprayer coming from the Isophea
and then again this responsefrom the Blue Mosque, it's just
so beautiful and grounding, andeven though I'm not someone who
practices Islam, I find hearingthe call to prayer five times a
(34:33):
day would center me in a waythat I had not really
experienced in other culturesbeing in that environment, even
if you're not necessarilypraying.
In that time it brought amindfulness to me, an awareness
of gratitude.
I would just stop and bethankful for that moment and it
(34:53):
was just really beautiful.
I find that aspect of theculture to be so fascinating and
hauntingly beautiful thehearing the different imams
doing the call, all differentsounds throughout the city,
because you'll hear, especiallyin a big city like Istanbul
you're going to hear theimmediate call to prayer that
you're listening to, but you'realso going to hear the echoes of
(35:13):
it happening all over the cityand I found that to be
incredibly impactful andbeautiful.
So that was one of my veryfavorite memories, which just
goes to show you places arereally touristy.
Places are touristy for areason.
I think sometimes you get a badrap because it's a really
visited place, but you can stillhave incredibly meaningful
experiences even in the midst ofthis really high touristy area.
(35:36):
Yeah, we saw a lot all thegreats in Istanbul, the Basilica
, sister, and all the places yougo to.
But really, just walking across, there is the bridge, across
the Golden Horn, where you'recrossing over the Bosphorus and
just watching the fishermen thatare hanging their poles off the
side and all the boats and thepeople I mean you're just never
(35:57):
going to get any better peoplewatching in Istanbul.
It's just such an incrediblecity and I feel very fortunate
to have been able to visit.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
You showed me these magnets that you got to keep
your scarf closed on your head.
So the mosques are definitelyworth visiting in Istanbul, but
the women have to cover up.
Do you want to tell me aboutyour attire?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Absolutely.
They offer scarves there ateach month.
Well, I shouldn't say everymosque does, but a lot
especially the big ones offerthings to cover your head there,
so if you forget something,don't worry.
For the most part, it's alsoeasy to pick up a scarf when
you're there.
But I wanted to bring somethingthat I wanted to make sure that
I was dressed appropriately andrespectfully, so I actually
(36:44):
bought a hijab from a companycalled Lala Hijabs.
I really love their verybeautiful scarves and they're
just a lovely family.
They're pretty popular onTikTok their name is the Saleh
family, but anyway, they sellthese great magnets just to hold
your hijab correctly.
I am by no means very good atputting a job on, so the magnets
(37:07):
were super helpful for me tokeep everything in place and
they're really strong and Iactually use them all the time
on.
If I'm wearing a sweater and Iwant to close it up more, I will
put my little magnet on, or ifa shirt is a little lower than
I'd like it to be, I'll pop amagnet there and they hold all
day and they're great.
So, yeah, they're very useful.
I never knew I needed hijabmagnets in my daily life, but I
(37:28):
use them quite often, I know.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
I think that it sounds quite handy.
All right, michelle, the nexttime you go to Turkey, I'm
jumping in the car with you.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Listen, you're always welcome.
We've traveled before and we'lltravel again, and thanks for
having me at your houseAbsolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
All right, michelle.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Where can we find out moreabout you?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Well, my main website is MichelleMartinPhotographycom
.
I'm a full-time photographer,so that's where I am.
You can contact me throughthere.
I also have an Instagram page,which is at Michelle Martin
Photo, and I am on Facebook asMichelle Warner Martin, which
I'm always happy to acceptfriend requests from people who
(38:10):
are like-minded travelers andalways love to talk travel.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Thank you, michelle.
Come back and visit me soon.
Yes, I can't wait.
Talk to you soon.
That's all for now.
Go ahead and follow the show orhit subscribe so you can hear
more episodes like this and ifyou would like my help taking
bold action on your own dreamslike living abroad, changing
careers and other lifetransitions, visit Live Without
Borders Podcastcom.
(38:34):
Thanks for listening and have abeautiful week wherever you are
.
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