1247. #TFCP - Women in Trucking: Breaking Barriers and Leading with Impact! - Coffee w/#The Freight Coach

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the bag hey.
Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey.
Let them all cross if they hate then let them make a bigger ball hey.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
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(00:49):
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(01:16):
Visit www.spi3pl.com to learn more.
Do me a favor and let them know that the freight coach sent you.
What is up?
Ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are not live because this is a pre recorded episode, you guys.
And like I always say, all of my guests have day jobs.
All right?
Not everybody can join during that live slot and I always like to accommodate that.

(01:37):
And especially today's guest.
Building up a company is not easy at all.
Contrary to what you see out there in social media.
It takes real work, a lot of dedication and a lot of time to build your business up.
And when I had initially been introduced to our guest today by my friends over at Red the Nova, I'm like yes, 100% I want to talk to her.

(02:00):
I want to get her on the show.
And with that being said, I have Maria Ivanov on the show, the co founder and CEO of Apex Transit Solutions.
So Marina, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
It is my pleasure.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
And I think what I like the most is I can see the Cross Dock facility behind you right there.
Like you are in it.
In it.
And, and I love that.
And you know we're going to get into a lot of that, Marina.
But like what?
How'd you get your start in transportation?
What brought you into the trucking industry?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
So that's a great question.
And it goes way back to 2004.
2002.
Way back in Y2K area.
And this is with my dad.
He was an owner operator.
And I got to spend summers, try driving around the country because my mom was working as a nurse full time and overtime, and were just causing trouble at home.

(02:50):
So she sent us off with our dad and there was the four of us driving around in the back of my dad's 2000 Volvo sleeper cab.
And it was quite an adventure that I decided that trucking wasn't for me at that time.
I said, I'm gonna go and get a 9 to 5 job.
I'm gonna be a dentist.
And I was studying to be in a completely different field.
And I was like, I'm never gonna do this.

(03:11):
It's too stressful.
So that's how I got started, by witnessing it firsthand.
Just be driving around with my dad, seeing what it was like for truck drivers at the shippers, seeing what it them over the road with all of the hours of service, regulations with the breakdowns, and just realize, like, this is a dirty, hard industry.
I'm like, I don't want to do anything to do with it, but life is just beautiful in that way because it exposes you to things that you are supposed to be doing at an early age and sends you in different journeys and you end up exactly where you're supposed to be.

(03:40):
So I'm here running this trucking company, and I am so grateful to be back in full circle because even with all of his challenges, I embrace it and I love it.
And this is my passion.
It's interesting to say that trucking is my passion, but it truly is.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, I'm right there with you.
And I share the same sentiment.
And you know, you and I both got started in the industry the exact same way.
Because my dad was an owner up he drove for 40 years, and that's how I spent a lot of my summers riding around the country with them like that.
And that's when I really developed my.
My love for the trucking industry.
Right.
Like, I knew from a very young age I wanted to be involved in the industry.

(04:15):
I didn't know how.
Like, I originally wanted to become a driver.
And.
And my dad was like, that was actually the one job that my dad was like, I don't want this life for you.
I want you to go do something else.
His big thing for me was I always Work with your brain, not your back.
And I had to get into the industry though, somehow.
And that's where I've been, you know, like I started out working in a warehouse in college and then I got a job at a trucking company right outside of college.

(04:42):
And then I originally switched over to.
And then I initially, excuse me, switched over to brokerage.
And, and I've been in brokerage now for 15 years.
I've been in the industry personally for almost 20 at this point.
And it's like I can't see myself doing anything else because my whole perspective has shifted since I became self employed.
Marina.
Like this is over the last five years and actually appreciating business now.

(05:07):
Like when a customer works with me, whether it's in my media company or in my freight brokerage, I have such a deeper level of respect for that because I kill what I eat now.
You know what I mean?
And it's like I know how hard it is.
It's hard enough to get customers, then it's even harder to keep them over time, right.
So it's like I have a completely different perspective on things and you know, I, I like to get the message out there about like, you know, when you, how you approach your business and you approach those interactions because it's not just call a couple of people and all of a sudden you're a millionaire, right?

(05:41):
Like it takes a lot of work and to build the infrastructure of your organization out.
And you know, so it's like when you went out because you co your husband, correct?

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
How is that?
So like my wife and I knew at a very early part of our relationship we can't work together.
Like we figured that out like from, in a professional setting.
How has that been managing that dynamic?
Because it's.
Trucking is a family industry, right?
Like there's a lot of businesses out there where they work with their siblings, spouses, parents and stuff like that.

(06:13):
And I've always been so like, I have a ton of respect for individuals who work with their immediate family out there.
So how has that been building a company with your husband?

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Well, a lot of therapy, so we'll start there.
But I, I do want to go back to that question and I'm just listening to you and fascinated by your story and I just thought of like there should be some kind of reality show on trucking when it comes to the kids who ride around the summer kids, you know, because you see that a lot and things that you see and Just the same respect that you have.

(06:44):
I echo that in my life.
And, you know, that's how your dad said, I don't want you to be a driver.
My dad said, we don't want you to be in trucking because it is really hard.
But this was no other.
We were at a point in our life when there was no other choice.
My husband was a general contractor, and it was just a very challenging time after the 2008, the market, the house marketing collapse.

(07:07):
And this is what were building up to.
And we had to be.
We had to get to a certain point where there was no other option.
We just had a baby or, you know, it just wasn't covering.
And, you know, what.
What is there that is always going to be essential and needed?
And it's trucking.
And so my husband got his CDL and started driving with my dad.
And I knew the reason why our dynamic works is because it has to.

(07:29):
You know, there's no other choice.
We got to make it work whether we like it or not, whether it is hard or we don't like our personalities.
You got to figure it out.
And that's what has gotten us where we are.
And we have very clear distinctions between our strength and our weaknesses.
My God, my husband, if I take him to a sales call, he'll just breaks out in a sweat.
He's like, oh, I can't stand.

(07:49):
This is like, this is so hard for me.
But I love it.
I thrive on it.
Because it's not sales for me.
It is a opportunity for me to present a solution that I know will help somebody.
So I truly believe in our services.
I know how good we are.
So I'm like, I am here.
I'm going to make you look good.
I'm going to be like, take care of your problems.
I'm happy to be here and I'm excited to share it.
But he's just that's not for him.

(08:10):
He loves he specs his trucks better than anyone I've ever seen.
He understands it.
You have to know that up to 18 trucks, we didn't have a mechanic did all the periodic maintenance on the trucks.
He did all the tire changes, so he worked all the weekends.
And I felt like a single mom for a long time.
But there was this understanding that this is what we're building here.

(08:31):
It's a legacy, and we have to put some grit into it and we have to put our time into it.
And I can't sit there and complain and say, you're not home enough because I know what we're building together.
So it's this dedication to a commitment to grow a business together.
He just walked into my office.
He completely ignored the sign that says recording in progress.
Don't walk in.

(08:51):
We share an office.
You're making a cameo on a podcast.
I wasn't talking about you.
This is perfect.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
No, it really is.
Right?
And I was going to say, you're like, when your husband was maintaining your guys's fleet, up to 18 trucks, how important is that for drivers to have that mechanical acumen of their trucks?
Right?
Because like, that was one thing that as an owner, operator, my dad had a lot of success in what in controlling his maintenances is.

(09:20):
He did the overwhelming majority of the maintenance on his own truck to ensure that, you know, because it was a cost thing at the end of the day, right?
He was like, why would I go pay a mechanic, say 5, 800, $1200 for a repair when I could just do it myself and take care of it over the weekend?
And, you know, same thing.
Like, it took a lot of time away from the family, but it was like he, you know, he was that old school guy where he's like, hey, I'm the, I'm gonna do what I got to do to take care of my family out there.

(09:50):
And, you know, how was that?
Do you think it's important for the drivers, you know, for those owner operators and those guys who are building up their fleet?
Like, hey, if you can't afford a mechanic, learn this stuff yourself.
Go out there.
And do you think it made you guys more efficient as you grew and scale?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh, absolutely.
It made us very efficient.
And it is that the pennies game, right?
The trucking industry is so very low and thin on their margins that if were to get, we would give it away if it were to take that somewhere else or hire somebody at that time.
So now obviously we can't do that.
But at that time, this is what we needed to do in order to save, to get more.

(10:32):
We were buying trucks for.
We're financing them, but we're buying trailers and cash.
So if we wanted to grow our fleet, we needed to save every penny.
And so there was very much of like, where can we cut costs?
And that's how we did it because.
And it built up a lot of trust with our drivers where they, if they see the owner working on those trailers on the weekends as they're coming in, coming home, they know that he's putting everything into it and he's going to care about the.

(10:58):
Cares about their equipment.
He cares about them.
And that's how we built a really tight knit of drivers in the beginning where there was that trust.
You care about me.
You know what I'm going through.
I see you on the road with me in the same truck subs because you would do deliveries for a long time, so.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, it was a really interesting time when I look back at it.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
So when you're bootstrapping a business like that, right, you know, you're paying cash for trailers and going out there and trying to scale your fleet or what are some of, you know, like now hindsight being 20, what are some things that worked early on that you would advise others who might be on that journey?
Because you guys have.
It's 90 trucks now, correct?

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yes.
You guys are at 90 trucks now.
And now when you're sitting up here with your fleet, what would you go back and tell yourself?
Or, you know that trucking owner right now who's at three trucks that wants to get to 10, is it, hey, I would highly advise you guys to do what we did, pay cash for the trailers and go that route, or is it take a little bit longer to scale and control your cost by owning your equipment outright?

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, that's a great question.
And I think if I was able to go back in time and tell myself these three things I would have done a little bit earlier and sooner would be, number one, invest in technology sooner.
Even though you can do it off of spreadsheets, there's still very efficient technology that can help you route and through AI.
And there's so much out there right now that can get you to be a lot more efficient, even if you're a small trucking company.

(12:30):
Doesn't mean that you shouldn't look into technology that's going to help you and make you a better operator.
And the second thing I would do is factor or look into some kind of capital.
If you can get access to capital or factor your invoices, you can grow faster.
That's what we did.
And in 2015, we had two trucks.
In 2016, we had four trucks.

(12:52):
It is because we had switched to a factoring company and we're able to grow our receivables faster to start getting.
Buying more equipment.
So that was those.
Did I say two, three.
What did I say?
Factor and technology.
And then I would say in a team, right.
If you're.
If you're just doing it yourself and you've Got somebody else helping you.

(13:14):
There's only so much that you can do.
Find somebody who's knowledgeable and what.
And in that field, bring them on, help them become a part of the family, and they'll help you build up the right people are everything.
So I wish I went back and the way I look at it, I think we hired sometimes more of friends and people that we knew and would teach them what we knew.
But I'm in a different place now where I'm hiring people who have experience across so many different fields and different companies and different types of logistics that come in and say, no, Marina, this way it's better, I've done it here.

(13:46):
Or they can help me streamline my operations, make things better, open up my eyes to a different way of doing things.
And I spent too long just hiring family and friends and building up this kind of tight little single network unit.
I would just say expand it to a network.
Hire somebody that you don't know when you are hiring, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
No, no, it does.
And those are all really great points, right.
And I feel like those are a lot of lessons that you learn.
And you know, I want touch on the, like, on the factoring and finance side, right.
Because that's an area that I have had to really get a very deep understanding of inside of like building my business finance acumen and all of that stuff that comes along with it.

(14:29):
Right?
Because you think, oh, I'm a.
When before you go out and own a business, you're like, oh, just get a credit card.
Or, you know, I just go do this.
And I, I have just found that like access to capital and managing your cash flow.
I truly think if we are looking at actual things that make or break a business, it is that financial acumen, absolutely, almost 100% of the time.

(14:53):
And then actually understanding what you're getting yourself into.
Because I feel like a lot of people have a hard time thinking, you know, because like, harsh reality for a lot of new business owners.
You will personally guarantee every single loan, credit card, invoice, you know, line of credit.
Everything will be personally guaranteed by you as the founder until you build up sustainable business credit.

(15:21):
And I mean, I, I think, I don't know how long it's going to take each.
And you know, it might be like a revenue thing there, but I know for me in particular, it took almost three years of being in business before I changed my business credit card and I did not have to personally Guarantee it at that point.
Right.
It took a very long time to get to there.

(15:43):
But, you know, again, fortunately, I had a very.
I, I had and have a very good CPA who's been guiding me from behind the scenes to have a better understanding of like, hey, Chris, like, this is a business.
It's a separate entity.
You have to make this money work for you.
It is not like a personal bank account at that point, because there are certain strategies that we can apply to make you know, lower your overall taxes and stuff like that, because who enjoys paying taxes at the end of the day?

(16:12):
But again, having a better understanding of how a business financial structure works, how has that helped you out?
Because, you know, again, you brought up with factoring and you were able to.
To grow through.
Through that.
What would you advise people to, you know, to understand about, like, hey, you guys, I know factoring might, you know, because every money industry has a bad name out there, right?

(16:38):
Because somebody always thinks that they're getting taken advantage of.
But it's like you.
It.
It is one of those things where you have to have access to capital because that.
It.
Most small businesses are 30 days away from being out of business every single month because they cannot manage their cash flow.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Good point.
And I was gonna.
I was thinking about this while you were talking and about one more point.
If I was to go back, I would really tell myself, invest into partnerships that are trucking or logistics experts.
Right.
Bankers, you know, find a bank that works with other trucking companies that can help you benchmark and help you grow and have better cash flow.

(17:22):
CPA.
I didn't have an industry specific CPA.
I went through three or four different CPAs before I found one that I was happy with.
And there are so many little loopholes and things going on in logistics and trucking where you have to know what you're doing.
There's these.
Even North Carolina, the states that you're in, right.
There's.
North Carolina has these.

(17:43):
I've learned so much on mistakes.
And so because I didn't partner with people who were freight specific and even like with insurance, too, there's a lot if you.
You got to find the right people who are experts in their field and managing that cash flow.
And it's so easy to do when money is just flowing and the market's great like it was in 21, 22.
But we're in a different time now.

(18:03):
And it is every.
Every trucking company's going through their operations that they're cutting costs to a point where there's not much left anymore to cut and something's going to give soon.
I do believe we're going to have a tightening of capacity because of a couple of things that FMCSA is doing with the English language.
Efficiency and a couple of other laws are coming out that's going to tighten the market for CDL drivers.

(18:26):
But that is the whole point is if you're not managing your cash flow, if you're not factoring, or if you're not having a line of credit that can help you through this hard time, this is a make or break it kind of moment.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you.
And I feel like having an understanding of how you get your money to work for you.
And, you know, again, I'm like, I'm very fortunate to have the CPA that I have at the end of the day, right.
Who has really advocated for me and to get out there.
But I think people need to understand that, like, not everybody's your enemy.
All right?
And there is one of those things, like when it comes down to, you know, factoring having a.

(19:03):
An adequate back office who's helping you manage things, because again, when you're.
When you're a solopreneur and then you're growing, you're gonna, like you had mentioned there, Marina, you're gonna hit different levels where you're like, I don't know what to do.
And I think, like, that's one thing that you need to actually admit in certain times where it's like, hey, I don't know, but I'm gonna go out there and.
And find somebody and.

(19:24):
And, you know, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna plug myself here a little bit here.
Marina, that's like one of the main driving forces courses behind the show is.
Is.
It's like, I want to interview people from all facets of the industry.
So the next Marina is going to be able to be like, hey, I listened to the Freight Coach.
I had.
He had this finance guy on the show, he had this insurance guy on the show.
They're going to know the right people to reach out to.

(19:45):
To help maybe minimize that opportunity.
You know, that.
That situation that could potentially make them feel like, hey, I'm gonna go out of business here unless I make this right decision.
Right.
Like, I want to help people scale the right way by talking to real business owners who have actually built real companies and made those decisions and overcame those hurdles.

(20:05):
Because there's not a lot of people who want to openly admit I'M wrong, right?
Like, I'm almost 40 years old, Marina, and I. I'm at a point in my life where I'm like, I am completely comfortable with saying I'm wrong and I don't know.
And I think like, that takes.
It took a long time for me to get to that point.
Point.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, I agree.
The ego has a hard time admitting that.
And I think one of the best things that I've changed with myself is realizing that failure is a lesson and an opportunity to grow.
Like, my gosh, I've.
I've.
In the last four months, we have changed up our operations maybe three or four times.
And it took one time, two weeks to realize, like, this is not working.
Let's do something else.

(20:43):
And then we kept changing and kept changing it.
And in the past, I would have been very convinced, committed to that previous idea where I was like, well, I came up with it.
If I say that I'm wrong, then, like, I look like an idiot.
I don't know what I'm doing and I don't want to look like that if I'm the leader of the company.
But like, admitting that I am wrong or I failed or this was not the right move allows.

(21:03):
There's a company culture that changes now where at least we're trying different things.
We're not so paralyzed by fear of failure that we're not trying to do something differently that will produce more efficiency.
And so getting to that point where the ego is no longer like, oh, no, I was wrong, it's okay.
Like, it's actually a good thing.
I failed at this.
Wow.
And now I have more information.
Now I get better and better because this didn't work.

(21:25):
But I'm getting closer to what does work.
So I don't know if that was your question, but I kind of share that with you.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
No, it is, right.
It's important out there because it's like, I feel like there you.
I just put a post out there this morning as well, Marina, where it's like 95% of the.
The battle is literally in between your ears in business.
Right.
I truly feel that way because it's like for me, the work's easy, right?
Because like both you and I love freight.

(21:51):
We love everything about the industry.
But it's a lot of these back of the back noise stuff that really gets to you, right?
Where it's like, that's that self doubt, it's that lack of confidence, it's that inability to make a decision that paralysis by Analysis situation that stops you more times than not.
And you know, I, I feel like that's a big thing for a lot of people to admit.

(22:16):
And then another thing is it's like, who do you reach out to in those moments?
And you know, I think mentorship is crucial in getting around the right individuals who again, have done what you're looking to do, like I say before every single show out there.
And, you know, so it's like, how is that then from like a network working in a mentorship standpoint for you, Marina?
Have you connected with some individuals that have kind of helped you go from, I mean, again, zero to 90 trucks in about 12 years?

(22:42):
That's no small feat.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's the knowledge of the thirst for knowledge and connection that got me to that point.
And I love this because it's a full circle moment for me because I did listen to the freight coach when I just started my brokerage too.
I wanted to learn more about sales.
And I love the people that you had on and just your real honest, the conversational style approach was so refreshing for me.

(23:06):
So thank you.
But there are so many people in my life that I have followed and just, you know, LinkedIn has been a really good place to connect with people online, but there's nothing like in person connections.
So I've been really cognizant of being intentional even in this hard economic times where a lot of people are cutting their associations and their memberships and in person events to continue to make time for them, make space for it, because that is where it's the bulk of our business, is those face to face connections and relationships.

(23:39):
So being involved in our North Carolina Trucking association, that's been a huge win for me in personal growth, where I joined in 2018.
And I had just mentors, people who saw potential in me and say, hey, Marina, you can be the chair one day.
And I just finished this year the being a chair for the Woman in Trucking of North Carolina Association.

(24:01):
I'm very proud of that.
That was something that I worked really hard on all year and creating a space for people to feel valued, appreciated and connected, especially women in logistics.
We kind of tend to have our own challenges that are a little bit unique and different with representation and diversity.
And I, through that opportunity for growth and connection, that's where I've had the most success.

(24:27):
And an interesting thing about that is that it didn't come from this like, oh, I'm gonna go out there and connect.
So I can get an ROI and I can get more sales and more people.
It came from a place of service, and, like, I want to give back.
And I know it sounds a little bit kind of like, oh, mother, she's all.
It's not like.
It's just, if you give, you get.
And that's such a key principle in life.

(24:49):
You give what you want to get.
And if I wanted to help others or if I wanted to get some help from someone, I would want to give that back.
And it just comes full circle.
I'm living proof of that, where I have committed my time, my energy, my resources, and then other opportunities come my way.
And it really is the key to that growth that we're talking about here is just to give fully and genuinely.

(25:12):
And then when you come to any situation, to any room, any networking event, and you're just thinking, about myself, how can I get more?
How can I get more?
It's so evident, right?
You can just feel that energy off of people.
It's like, what do they call it?
Commission breath?
Like, you can just smell that commission breath, you know?
And it's just like, it's not what it's not about.
It's more of, like, just slowing down and listening to people.

(25:34):
What do they need?
And helping, seeing how you can help.
I know your question was, like, about mentors.
I went completely different way.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
It.
To me, it's.
It's.
It's very real, right?
Because I. I think that your ability to network and your ability to go and meet with other people, I have found more people that are willing to help if you're willing to ask, than I ever thought.
And it is kind of showing that humility, right?

(26:04):
And then it is that.
That bringing that like, hey, how can I help you?
Mentality to it.
And there's a lot of parallels.
When you were saying that I. I was trying not to cut you off, Marina, because I'm like, oh, my gosh.
It's just like in sales, because there are so many parallels to, like, going out there and networking and building a business in a book of business out there, right?
Because it's like, when you know that you can actually provide a legitimate service, a lot of the anxiety tends to go away, right?

(26:30):
And everybody's got it.
I still, to this day, when I'm making calls, there'll be a couple of them where I'm like, oh, wow.
It just doesn't take me as long to recover as it did when I was younger and stuff like that.
Now I'm like, all right, I'll laugh about it and get back on.
But to me, it's more of like, hey, I just want to help people, right?
Like, at the end of the day, I want to help people, whether it's through the content that I produce or my freight brokerage, the customers.

(26:53):
I just want to add value to others at the end of the day.
And I've just found that when you focus on adding value to others, whether it's with networking, business development, content creation, everything you want to accomplish inevitably comes to you.
It just goes in time, right?
Because you're taking the right way.
I mean, there are no shortcuts.

(27:14):
And I think, like, that's what gets a lot of individuals out there is, it's like they think that there's going to be a shortcut.
They think that they're going to be able to bypass stuff.
They think that there's an easier way.
No, the way is if you focus on the value, all right, you focus on.
All right.
I want to just help individuals, being brutally honest.
If you can't do something, I think that is a massive superpower inside of servicing customers, letting them know if you can't do something instead of, you know, rolling the dice and just trying to figure it out at their expense and, you know, again, wanting and being willing to help others out there, that is very telling.

(27:55):
And then truly just expecting nothing in return.
Right?
And I think, like, that's one thing that, you know, I love what you said about commission breath.
I'm going to stop, start using that line, Marina, because right now, no, I will, because it's so true.
I, I see it a lot in some of the individuals who might want to get on my show, right?

(28:18):
Where it's just like, all they're concerned about is what they can get out of being on my show they're not concerned about at.
It's like it turns into a pitch and I tell them, like, listen, I, and that's why I don't do preset questions when people ask to come on my show.
There's it's a conversation and that's it.
Because if it turns into you just trying to pitch, pitch, buy for me, I'm like, nobody, nobody adds value or like, nobody wants to hear that at the end of the day, right?

(28:42):
But it's same thing when you're going out there and trying to cold call a customer, right?
I, I, at the, like, when we're calling people, we break it down into different, like, levels, right?
Because, like, our the majority of the time arena, you're literally just trying to talk to the decision maker for the very first time.
Right.
You need to understand where you're at in the sales cycle.

(29:02):
So for us, a lot of it is here's who we are, this is what we do, this is what we specialize in.
These are the areas that we like to run.
And then we shut up and listen.
Right?
Because 99% of the time on the first phone call, they're going to be like, we're good right now.
Okay, perfect.
So then the second ask of that call, how do I respectful stay in front of you?
Right?

(29:22):
Like I, I'm not going to call you tomorrow, I'm not going to call you next week.
Is it okay if I touch base with you once a month?
And I want that verbal yes, that's fine.
And there is a very high yes, that's fine when you ask them because again, I want to be respectful of their time.
I know that they have a job to do.
They are not just sitting around and waiting for Chris Jolly to cold call them all day long.

(29:46):
And I feel like there's a way that you can work people out of your life by pushing too much.
Right.
And again, back to your commission breath.
Everybody can smell that from a mile away.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, exactly.
I love that tip.
I'm actually going to use that to just be respectful.
Hey, it's if it not now when it can.
I'm just surprised and impressed that you get people to answer the phone.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
That's the thing.
Not 90% of the time, people aren't answering the phone.
Right.
Like I, like I break it down as it's like if I get the gatekeeper to answer the phone and I do it like this, I will.
If they say, hey, this is Stacy with ABC Shippers.
I will always make sure I repeat their name.
Hey, Stacy, this is Chris with, you know, so and but if they, and then it's more of like, I want to befriend the gatekeeper.

(30:38):
That's my big thing.
Because I know that the decision maker is not going to answer that phone when they see a random phone number calling them.
Right.
People don't answer their a random phone number on their cell phone these days.
Right.
Like, they're definitely not going to do it at work.
And again, it's out the next time I call Stacy back.
And to be like, hey, Stacy, it's Chris again.
Hey, we talked a month ago.
I know you get a ton of inbound calls.

(30:59):
You probably don't remember me, but I remember you.
Here's who I am.
This is what I want, you know?
And again, it's like I'm trying to build up that familiarity there because there are.
I'm convinced of it at this point.
Marina, there are two groups of individuals out there that are put in a yes, we'll give you a shot category.
And then not in, there's a snow.

(31:20):
There's not a snowballs chance in hell we will ever give you an opportunity to haul our freight.
And I'm just trying to be the first one they think of when their current network fails.
Because no matter what, it's gonna happen, something's gonna happen, and I want them to think of us first.
So I'm trying to just be in that positive light in a world of fake, when everybody's trying, hey, it's so and so, blah, blah, I'm your best friend.

(31:44):
Nah, man, this is who I am.
This is what we do.
It's kind of that take it or leave it approach in a sense of like, we do full truckload.
This is where we are.
This is who we are.
And I try and just be as short and to the point as possible because I don't ever want to, like, have I lost opportunities from.
Probably.
But, like, at the end of the day, I want to attract the right customer for our business.

(32:09):
I don't want to work with everybody.
I want to work with the right customers.
And it's my job as a sales rep and it's my job as a founder to find those customers that align with who we are.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Oh, I love that.
I'm taking away some great points here.
So respect and connect with the gatekeeper.
And then when you do talk to decision maker and if it's a no, ask respectfully, can I stay in touch with you once a month?
Love it.
And I do want to add one more thing to that from my own personal experience, being sold to.
So it's interesting being in sales and also being a decision maker when it comes to purchasing any kind of equipment or being just a vendor, being sold to and selling.

(32:51):
I always feel bad for the sales guy.
I'm like, I'll give him a chance.
I had to get help with my inbox because I was just saying yes to everybody and, like, I couldn't.
It was terrible.
But I. I do get.
I.
Someone got through to me once in the phone call and it was this phone selling service.
If you're listening, I hope you learned from this.
I think I talked about it and it was just.
I wanted to, you know, have our.

(33:11):
The background.
Shippers are not going to call me.
That's just not the world that it works with anymore.
It's.
No one's calling me.
I got to do the work and call out.
Maybe they will.
If you want to call me, please do.
But it's just.
Just.
It's not worth the investments.
Like $500 a month or something.
Something crazy for every cording of your phone with your name and about how great you are.
And when this guy, sales guy called me, he is like, well, I'm gonna come in tomorrow morning.

(33:36):
I'm in the area.
I'm like, fine, whatever.
Just come in.
He was just so persistent about it.
And he's like, this is gonna be.
This is gonna revolute, you know, just pushing, pushing.
I was in a place where I didn't feel like arguing back anymore.
I was like, just, I'll give 15 minutes.
I'll listen to you.
And then he's like, well, are you.
Who's going to be there?
I'm like, I'm going to be there.
He's like, is Stan going to be there?
That's my husband.
I'm like, no, he's.

(33:56):
He's doing something else.
That's not his area of expertise.
And he's like, well, are you sure that Stan doesn't need to be there?
I was like, oh, my God.
Like, what are you trying to say?
Like, okay, yeah, I'm sure.
And he asked me twice.
And I'm like, wow, that is so disrespectful.
Like, just first of all, I don't know if it was like a, you know, sexist thing, but.

(34:17):
And I don't want to be.
I'm not very sensitive to that, but I'm like, this just doesn't feel good.
Like, I don't want to listen to you.
I ended up actually not canceling the meeting so I could meet.
Telling that in person.
I was like, this just wasn't right.
And I hope you learn from it and do better going forward.
But at the same time, if you respect the person who answers the phone, you don't know if they're the decision maker or not or how much influence they have on a decision maker.

(34:42):
So what you said is gold.
You know, connect and respect whoever you're talking to always.
It doesn't matter who they are in the company.
Company.
And we do see that sometimes we're on this enterprise level, on sales.
People are wanting to get connected with the higher purpose and the decision maker and it's just like, be cool to everyone, you know, how you treat the CEO is how you should treat everyone in the company.

(35:03):
You know, it's just that level of like, well, I'm going to be really nice and I just want to talk to you because you make a decision, it's not going to cut it anymore.
Yeah, that's my approach anyway.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
No, I, I agree with that wholeheartedly, Marina.
I, I think like they're, that people try and over complicate and again, it's, they try and scheme.
At the end of the day, they try and scheme.
They try and I just like, I would rather, I, you know, and maybe again, I'm just at a point in my life I would rather like one thing that I say, I would rather keep a customer on.

(35:33):
I would rather lose a customer for telling the truth and keep a customer on a lie.
And that's something that I embody.
Right.
Because like, I just want to be, I want people to work with me and then know me.
And then again, respect, like you brought up respect a couple of times there.
And I couldn't agree more with that.
I feel like we're in a world of me, me now.

(35:53):
And I mean it's been very evident, I would say the shift over probably the last 10 years, Marina, in my opinion, where it's like that old school way of thinking has gone away.
Where it's like, hey, holding the door open for other people, you know, smiling at your neighbor, waving at your neighbor, stuff like, that's all gone.
And it's kind of came in to the business development world as well, where people are like, oh, you're not the person who's going to make me money onto the next commission.

(36:21):
Breath.
Another great correlation there.
But it's like I, I, I, you know, same thing as a business owner.
I get those inbound solicitations and I'm a sucker for salesmen or sales reps because I'm a sales rep at heart.
Right.
And I always want to hear from people and it's, it's alarming how many people, A, don't know their product, B, don't know why they're calling you, and C, don't care about their job, you know, and it's like, I think if you can attack business development and then, you know, setting that tone for your company because again, you're the founder of your organization.

(36:55):
I'm the founder of my organization.
It is my duty to set the tone and try my Absolute best to have a positive perception out there in the freight market where when people see my name or my company's name calling, they know that it's going to be a respectful conversation.
And they're like, they don't get that anxiety of like, these guys are calling again.

(37:16):
I don't want to answer it.
Kind of the way that you seemingly guilted that guy into, like, you know, having a.
A conversation with you, right?
Where it's like, he was so pushy, you knew you weren't going to work with them.
And I'm like, I don't want any of my sales reps to ever make somebody feel like that.
I want, you know what?
At the end of the day, if they think that we're passive, that's fine.

(37:37):
But they're going to remember us.
They're going to remember us because we know what we're talking about.
We are respectful.
Respectful of their time.
And I just don't want to ever.
Is it going to be perfect?
Absolutely not, Marina.
But at the end of the day, I know for a fact that I want people to.
When they see my company's name pop up on their caller ID or hit their inbox via email, they know it's going to be a quality conversation and that we're prepared for that.

(38:02):
Because I look at it in the prospecting phase.
If you can't even have a basic understanding of what they do when you call them, do you think they're going to trust you with millions of dollars worth of freight that is responsible for that company's P L for the next four, five months of overhead?
You really think they're going to trust you with that?

(38:24):
If you, if you can't even take five seconds to go to a company's website and see that they're a dairy manufacturer and they make milk, you know, like.
And then you're like, that's the thing that gets me the most.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well, you know that a lot of the outbound calling is now done outside of the country.
And it's a CRM that's been trained and, you know, it's just dialing of dollars and over again.
And that's why we can't get in the door with our phone calls sometimes because the inboxes are just flooded.
I have so many of my shippers tell me I don't pick up my phone.

(38:57):
Like, I just don't.
I can't answer every call.
That's all I would do if I would just answer all the calls for solicitations.
And that's where going back to what can you do, right?
How do you get in the door when to start off your trucking company or your brokerage.
And it goes back to building the credibility and knowledge base like becoming an expert in your field.
Everybody's an expert at something everybody has.

(39:18):
You, you have not, but most people do.
You have value to add.
And when you have to realize what that value is internally because you, if you don't believe it yourself, nobody else will.
So it took me some time, Sales actually had some sales coaching to realize that Miles sales coach was selling Apex better than I did.
I came in with this feeling like, well, we're not really that big and you know, but we're just a small trucking company.

(39:43):
We're family owned.
You know, we really care about your freight, but we're not like so big.
And I was just undermining how powerful that can be for a shipper where they want that 100 truck fleet that they're a big deal to them.
Like my customer is a big deal to me.
And they're not just lost in the numbers with the big brokerages.

(40:05):
This is somebody that we care about.
And in understanding that, targeting that right customer for what we do have and knowing that this is going to be valuable, when it's going to be helpful and everybody listening has to identify their value.
Even if it's just your one person, one broker trying to get connected with somebody, your value could be that you are a trusted individual, you're credible.

(40:26):
And how can you start building that credibility and not trust in your online Presence, with your LinkedIn connections, with your associations?
This is where connecting with different associations, either in your state or national level is going to be so important.
Go to the events, connect with people one one.
That's how you build credibility.
And it could be done so on a granular level.

(40:49):
Sometimes we think like, oh, well, I don't have a podcast.
I don't have a huge following.
It is the little connections that you make over and over again locally and then regionally and then nationally that will make all the difference.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, no, I, I agree.
Like, you just got to get out there and you got to be unapologetic about letting everybody know what you do, you know, and I think like there's a right way and a wrong way of going about things and you know, again, I feel like there's.
You can be so much more organized and you can have such a greater reach with technology and, you know, you brought that up with, you know, utilizing social media.
Everybody has a brand now.

(41:22):
What do you want your brand to be out there Again?
I have chosen and will continue to choose to focus on value driven content for the transportation industry.
I say this often.
I could easily 10 or 20x my following in engagement, Marina, if I took the fringe route and only talked about the stuff that got the most engagement on social media.
But who benefits from that?

(41:42):
I will for like a year or two and then eventually I'm gonna be just another person that started talking online and went away.
Right.
Like I, I want to create meaningful impact out there in the transportation industry.
I don't want my reach to be a mile wide and an inch deep, you know, and I want to get in front of as many people as possible to again help them learn through those things.

(42:05):
And you know, technology is one of those things that I feel like now as a smaller operation, like we're a small business too but like I get to pack a larger punch in the market due to my access to technology and automation and I feel like we're at a really interesting time where you can do that.
Now Your operation Marina is, you know, yes, it's 90 trucks.

(42:26):
You have a brokerage and everything but you have the right technology behind it.
You can pack the punch of a 2, 3, 400 million dollar organization with your current headcount, with the right automation and the right systems that you put in place.
And like that's what I'm the most looking forward to over the next five years.
And again, this is just me and I'm just a glutton for punishment Marina.

(42:47):
I want to say I want to see how lean we can stay for as long as possible.
Like how big can we go?
How many loads in a day can I move with just a couple of people and that like, that's where my mind's at.
But like I truly feel with the right technology today you can.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Having the right technology has been critical for us to avoid inefficiencies and missing things.
Right.
If you are using spreadsheets like we did in the past and you have freight that you forget a spreadsheet is dead.
It's not going to do anything about it.
You know, it's not going to change.
It's not live like in the TMS that has your ELD built into it, that has your tracking built into it and that has AI capabilities to route your closest driver it instead of now 10 trucks to one dispatch track and do 20 trucks in one dispatcher.

(43:38):
So now I'm Sitting on my manpower and my people are now able to do the relationship building aspect, not necessarily the nitty gritty of the data entry and tracking and tracing because that technology is doing it for them.
And they can work on, you know, connecting to, with the driver, making sure that they're following the instruction, connecting with the location and following their procedures.

(44:01):
That's most important critical part for those dispatchers right now.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
So when you're out there with your dispatchers and everything, I want to talk broker and carrier relationships here a little bit.
What, what is your biggest pet peeve from that brokers do to you guys as a fleet?

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Being rude?
It's my first thing because I, I have gone into that room and I have booked freight and I'm just like, you don't gotta be so rude.
Like that's just my first instinct.
Why are we like that?
I get it's a hard industry, but you can get so much more accomplished by being just kind and respectful to people.
And then also just.
I don't think brokers understand the stress and the reality actually of trucking.

(44:47):
So I'm struggling with this right now too because I do have a brokerage and I do have assets.
And so when I come up to a solution to a customer, I want to put my assets on there.
But I know that's not the best choice because this is a backhaul lane for a carrier that we know and trust and Apex needs, you know, to something a mile for it and this can do it for $1.80.

(45:07):
And I'm going to save my customer more by going with the brokering this rate than putting on my asset.
And it is a challenge every time like what do I do?
Because I want to take care of my trucks and eventually if we, everybody's just wanting backhaul rates where a trucking company is going to get head haul rates, right there's that situation but it's where I go back to that selfless go do what's best for the customer and they will take care of you and be honest and transparent with them about it.

(45:35):
Here this is what we're doing.
So we have Apex Transit Solutions which has both the brokerage and the asset arm.
And you know, we go into a customer, we look at, okay, are you only looking for assets?
Are you looking for dedicated fleet?
We're going to be working with this or here's our job trailers.
But for these live loads we're going to use a brokerage and that has worked really well for our customers.

(45:57):
But sometimes it's personally challenging for me because I used to think that brokerage brokers were these bad guys and they had all the freight and they took advantage of the dispatchers.
I do not think that anymore.
I've learned a really hard lesson and that there are so many challenges and it's so hard to get a customer, it's hard to keep them.
There's constant competition.
Brokers are incredible, providing good service, especially to the customers.

(46:19):
There's so many nuances where from appointment tracking to how the freight is to move, that when were just a pure brokerage of operation, I mean, or when we started our trucking company, we only worked with brokers.
We didn't have any direct shippers.
And so that was easy.
A rate confirmation comes in, the appointments are set, you just pick up and go.
But behind the scenes, there's so much more that needs to be done.

(46:39):
There's a relationship that's built to understand that freight.
There is appointments made on each side, there is tracking, there's worry and stress.
That's like, are you going to make it?
Are you going to be a legit carrier?
Are you going to actually get it done?
And so a funny story in 2015, when we started a couple of days, years into it, I'm looking at, I'm like, who are these brokers and why do they have all the freight?

(47:01):
Like I'm just going to become one.
And there's all, there's plenty of online coaching that says you are going to, you know, take my course and you're going to learn how to become a broker.
And there's some legit ones and there's some that are just selling courses.
And I, I kind of got one of those.
I was just selling a course and here's our, all of our.
You're going to get all the contracts and I took the course and I was like, okay, so where's the freight?

(47:25):
It's just like, oh, I have to go out there and hunt it.
But I'm also doing accounting, I'm paying my drivers, I am doing all the invoicing, you know, managing everything operationally on the business side, I don't have time to hunt for the of customers.
So brokers became an outside sales force.
And then as we grew and added more trucks, it's hard, it was hard, just natural transition to get more and more sales people in the door.

(47:49):
But it was just.
And being both.
I tried to be the broker that I wish I had, but there's just so much fraud.
Right now.
And so much of the like squeeze that's happening on carriers where it's just hard to swallow where I'm literally losing money on a lane or you know, that's that kind of stuff.

(48:10):
They're like well I need to move my truck into Texas, right.
And right now with B1 drivers the rates just went down to a point where I can't even pay fuel and truck with the cost that you're, that you wanted me to run it at.
I just, I'm out already.
It's, I'm doing it for free.
I'm doing out of pocket and.
But it was fine when the lanes worked.

(48:31):
When there was freight out of Texas it was great.
But now that freight has dried up because of tariffs.
So now I don't have this to cover that.
This is the first time Chris that I'm actually going back to customers and saying that I can't haul your afraid anymore at this rate.
And I can do it on my brokerage which is really sad.
I don't like doing that.
But, but, and then they servicing the customer, right.

(48:52):
It's like my asses can't haul it but I could find you a backhaul carrier that can.
And then eventually like who's going to be that doing the head halls?
I don't know.
We'll figure it out.
It's trucking.
We always find a way.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
You know I, I agree.
And, and it is, it's really tough and you know, it's so competitive on the brokerage side.
Like I know that there's a lot of individuals who share that sentiment that you had about brokers and again brokers earn their reputation.
I, I am not in a broker, I am not a broker apologist at all.

(49:24):
They are their own worst enemies for the most part hands down.
But to your point on getting customers, getting more freight, it very challenging and to be able to go out there and get customers and then keep customers because again like with you talking about that and balancing your assets with your brokerage, I mean brokers go like I go through with that, right.

(49:45):
Like there's some of the lanes that I will quote for a couple of my customers, not all of them, what they say they're covering these loads for.
I like I could never ever offer a driver that with a straight face and like I don't understand who's taking it at these rates and it's on some of these lanes and you know, not all brokers but I don't think, I think A lot of trucking companies would probably share that same sentiment, Marina, if they started dealing on the brokerage side of things, that maybe it's not as glamorous as I thought it was going to be out there.

(50:25):
But again, I feel like a lot of brokers need to have a better understanding of what drivers go through and what trucking companies go through out there.
And again, like we just got to raise the standards.
I think, you know, like we have to perform at such a high level that any of those shoddy operations are so glaringly obvious that they suck because there are so many high performing companies that are out there.

(50:49):
Marina.
I feel like that's the like the real method and the strategy to like drowning out a lot of that noise is because like people don't actually care.
I think for the most part.
Right.
Not everybody, but there's a large people, a group of people who like, they don't care.
It's just a job to them.
You know, like if they, if that doesn't work out, they'll just go find another job.

(51:10):
There's, there aren't.
I haven't met that many people in this industry who eat bread, breathe in sleep, transportation.
I, I haven't.
I've met a lot of people who are, who are okay with the industry, but it's been a handful of people who live this stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
I agree.
It's funny you're saying sleep.
I'm having such a hard time sleeping right now because I can stop thinking about everything that's going on at work.
And that's what I think brokers.
I wish they knew how challenging it is for trucking companies.
It.
And what is it that we go through on a everyday basis just to be able to run these trucks for.
To be.

(51:49):
Because it's such a symbiotic relationship.
The brokers can't survive without the carriers.
And so we need each other and we've created a very like unhealthy dynamic right now.
And just it swings, it goes up and down.
Like there's plenty of bad actors on both sides but there's also a lot of really good hard working people that are struggling, that are caught in this dynamic right now.

(52:09):
And like you said, if more brokers had education on maybe a shadow, a trucking company, like just show up to them for a day, learn like figure out what they go through.
Like the amount of stress and the endless problems just show up.
Especially like when it comes to liabilities and lawsuits.
I remember when I got my first lawsuit papers I thought I was gonna vomit.

(52:30):
I was so stressed out because it was just like, oh, my gosh, the.
A negligent carrier.
It went on and on about how terrible we are.
Like, none of this is true.
And my insurance agent's like, calm down.
This is just what they say.
But it's just like, it.
It's personal.
You take.
You put everything on the line for it.
And when you know there's just, like, it's hardship after hardship, and it makes you stronger, you realize, like, wow.

(52:54):
I'm really, like, whoever's surviving right now, I give them mad props.
Like.
Like, wow.
I'm proud of every trucking company that's still out there and making it because it is one of the hardest markets I've ever been in.
And really, there's days that I'm like, I don't know why I'm still doing it.
I just remember, like, okay, this is my mission.
This is my purpose.
Everything that goes up goes down.

(53:15):
And it comes like, this is a site.
This is life.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
It's.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
We're gonna see an uptu.
And just.
I gotta have this relentless pursuit and belief that it's going to happen.
We're gonna see a breakthrough soon.
And it might not be as huge as it was in the 21, but I'm just ready for a little bit of stability where it's just not so intense and, like, stability up now, like, we've been stable down for a long time.
Let's just see a little bit of tick up for everybody in this industry.

(53:38):
So, yeah, that's where we are.
I always try to end on a positive note because I'm naturally a very positive person, and I believe that it's going to get better.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
That.
That is.
And I'm right there with you, Marie.
And I was gonna say, like, I can't top what you just said there.
I. I agree.
Agree.
I feel like it.
It's kudos to anybody who's still out there fighting in.
In there and in the trenches.
And, you know, again, that's what this entire show is built up off of.
It's a bit.
I want that community out there where it's like, no, you're not crazy.
All right?
Like, you.
If you're out there and you're trying to do the right thing, there are a lot of other individuals who are out there trying to do it.

(54:10):
We're all fighting with you.
Right?
Like, and that's when it is, like, when I put up my content about making sales calls and doing all, like, I'm in the trenches with everybody.
Right?
So all that rejection that everybody else is facing, don't look at the content I put out there and think I'm immune from that.
I go through all of that stuff as well and I try and do my best to put that out there.
But Marina, thank you so much.
I want to be mindful of your time.

(54:30):
That is going to be it for today, ladies and gentlemen.
As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show, you guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify because if you see value your network going to see value as well.
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Thank you for having me.
My pleasure.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Came back with a bank moving fast hey let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them make a bigger boss hey.

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1247. #TFCP - Women in Trucking: Breaking Barriers and Leading with Impact!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}1247. #TFCP - Women in Trucking: Breaking Barriers and Leading with Impact!