August 14, 2025 • 32 mins
In today’s episode, NMFTA’s Keith Peterson and Farooq Huda of Worldwide Express join us to talk about how the Digital Standards Development Council (DSDC) is changing the game for freight tech!
We explore how universal API standards are eliminating repetitive integration work across LTL, full truckload, 3PLs, and shippers, making “build once, use everywhere” a reality.
Our guests share real-world adoption from companies like Worldwide Express, the benefits of an ecosystem approach, and why this move toward industry-wide digitalization will improve compliance, reduce back-office overhead, and unlock massive long-term value!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them Make a bigger boss hey.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
What is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation, coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
(00:46):
And I do say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Happy Thursday, everybody.
I got a couple of special guests for you guys here today.
(01:08):
That's right, we had two of them coming onto the show and we're going to talk about just kind of the digitization of transportation and what's going on out there and kind of like a standard that needs to be set and that has been set in some of the options that are available to you.
So.
So I have Mr. Keith Peterson on the show as well as Farouk Huda on the show to break all of this down.
So, gentlemen, thank you guys so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thanks for having us here, Chris.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, thanks, Chris.
Excited to join you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, absolutely.
And, you know, so the Digital Standards Development Council, it, you know, it's a part of the NMWTA there and everything.
What, what was the driving force behind starting something like this?
And, and really, I think, I mean, I think anybody who works in the transportation industry will always say, like, we're like 15 years behind in from like a technology perspective.
(01:59):
And it seemingly over the last five years has really closed the gap and there's been like a lot of advancement out there in the market.
So kind of like, what was the real driving force behind this?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So I'll start Farooq, if you don't mind, here, and then go ahead and jump in wherever you want there.
But, you know, it really started with an LTL council, but not just LTL carriers, also three PLs, shippers and carriers as well.
Where we really wanted to bring together people and kind of come up with this common language for the LTL industry is where it started to make the digitalization of it that much easier so we don't have to redo things time and time again whenever we want to make another connection here.
(02:45):
And since then, we've actually added a full truckloads council now as well.
That is mirroring what the LTL Council has been doing for the last few years here and working hard to catch up to them as well here.
So, Farouk, I mean, what would you like to add to that?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
No, I think digitalization sweeping the industry.
Right.
And so I think that's just an essential first step for us to try to figure out how to integrate and get.
Get everybody talking the same way rather than pockets of information.
So I think it's a really valuable effort.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So, like, from a leadership perspective, how does adopting like an open API standard, you know, future proof transportation as a whole, like what?
How does it future proof it and then, like, also provide a competitive edge out there?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Baruch, you want to take that one and I'll jump in?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yeah, I think it's important for creating this ecosystem, Chris, where everybody's working together, not kind of in their own silos.
Right.
So what that does is we've defined standards and Keith's been driving this across the board on very thoughtful API definitions and digitalization.
So it's not just what do we need now, but it's more thoughtfully around how do we unlock that value for the shippers for the next three to five years so thoughtfully doing these APIs and utilization definitions so they can be reused and extrapolate over the next few years.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Farouk and I were talking earlier this week, and I thought he brought up a great point.
A lack of standards creates really essentially tech debt here.
And as Farouk said, we're being really thoughtful about where the most value is going to come from these standards that we're developing out there.
So that I think he already said five years from now we can reuse that as we continue to build on this here.
(04:39):
And I can tell you just in the workshops, new ideas come up all the time.
I was just one this morning, and as were working through just a standard API on invoice and documentation for the whole truckload side, some good ideas came out of that for in the future.
All right, what's the next version going to look like?
(05:00):
So having everybody together Kind of thinking through this is really exciting and really starting to gain some momentum here.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think it'd be good to kind of add, like, what is a standard API connection out there for those of those who are listening right now, and they're like, how would they access that from their organization who might have a limited, you know, tech understanding of it?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, so there's.
There's actually a few that are already released.
The first one we released was E Billating and we've had few versions since then as well.
You know, we just released preliminary freight charges for ltl and on the full truckload side, we actually that kind of came from a different consortium, the Scheduling Standards Consortium.
(05:49):
So we've adopted their scheduling standard as well here.
Now, to go see all these, you can go to nmfpa.org and there's a DSDC or Digital Standards Development Group link in there that you can go to.
And it'll have information on everything that we're doing, as well as ways to get in and view these standards here.
(06:11):
And we have them in mainly in Swagger, but other, you know, other forms as well.
But going forward, you know, we're going to provide it in Swagger.
You'll also see a PRD in there as well.
So.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Just to add one more thing, it's being done looking at the customer journey.
So we're not just like picking things.
It's from how do we support a digital booking to how do we look at pickup visibility, to how do we look at invoicing charges and then eventually disputes or claims.
Right.
So we're kind of looking across the shipper journey to make sure we thought, think through it in a very concise manner.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So, I mean, like, you're bringing up the ebols there in, you know, and a couple of other things.
So, like, what are some of the biggest technical hurdles, do you think, like, into existing RTMS platforms that IT departments are going to potentially be faced with?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Farouk, I'll let you take that one.
I think that's one for that.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I think this depends on some of the systems that are out there.
Some of the SaaS providers are a lot more up to speed on their technology and platforms, but some of the legacy platforms may be a little bit harder on how do you unlock that data and how do you follow that standard.
But now there's enough integration technology and integration, you know, solutions out there that it's easy for them to at least say, half the problem is picking what technology, but the other half of how we define that part of it of a very clear, concise spec of exactly how you need to talk to others.
(07:43):
So that part is made easier through this effort.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And I'll add as well a lot of, and I've said this before to the councils, you know, it's all going, it's going to start gaining momentum as more and more people and organizations adopt these standards, starting with e bill of 80.
And right now, you know, it's almost like we're trying to push a rock up the hill but eventually it's going to get over that hill and it's going to take right off for us here.
(08:10):
So, you know, we already have people like C.H.
robinson, Old Dominion Freight Lines, you know, Worldwide Express, you know, that are putting this into play and starting to make these connections.
So it's going to start gaining more momentum here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
What would like a typical integration period look like if you're going to go out there and access API?
Like how long is the testing look like?
Because I think like, you know, when people hear some of these terms out there, they're thinking it's going to be a long and drawn out process that comes along with it.
And you know, depending on what tech vendors they're using out there, some people kind of like to sell that as a, from what I understand, a lot bigger deal than what it is to do some API testing.
(08:53):
Like, well, I've had somebody explain it to me like this in simple terms.
Like it's essentially like plugging a toaster into the wall.
Either it works or it doesn't.
And then we troubleshoot and find the areas where we need to patch and then have the process run smoothly from there.
Is that accurate?
What is like a, kind of like a general timeline would look like?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yeah, I think I can talk from our perspective, from a 3 PL perspective for worldwide Express.
For us it's weeks to a month, a few months process only because you have to look at how you're integrating with the carriers today and how do you switch over to this new standard.
And this new standard will enable you to get more richer data.
(09:32):
So it just depends how much you've abstracted that in your current technology platform or if you've got it very embedded, then it's a little bit more work.
And you know, each carrier has a little bit, slightly slight nuance to how they do the implementation.
So carrier by carrier you can kind of look at.
But the benefits we're seeing is tremendous.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And I think really the end goal of this as we Said is to have a common language for people to use.
Right.
So the initial work on it may be a little bit more, but the end goal is to make more connections that much quicker as more and more people use these standards, instead of having to work through the differences.
(10:16):
You know, we've got a common set here of terms of fields, and they should be that much easier just to connect here.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Start doing it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And I was gonna say that was gonna be my next question is it's like it seems that with multiple different proprietary systems out there, that's going to garner a longer integration period because everybody's code speaks differently, and we're going to need to go out there and really, you know, kind of iron that out.
So it's like, seemingly the overall goal is how do we get all systems out there talking the same language to have kind of like a universal API out there to where it's like as simple as plugging in a toaster to the wall.
(10:57):
And it should be up and running as soon as possible because all of them are speaking the same technical language out there.
And, you know, it's like, you know, talking about, like, you know, standard ebols or standard, you know, pickup appointments and stuff like that across the board.
It's.
It's kind of like, you know, a way to make it as smooth as, like, I can see a performance improvement coming across the board from that when all of them, like, I feel like it's even more accurate updates and stuff.
(11:21):
So, Farooq, I mean, with you being on the 3 PL side like that, do you see that out there where it's like, if five shippers that you guys are working with have a different TMS that they're operating on, it takes a lot longer to integrate it as opposed to if they kind of have like more of a set sample system where each system is kind of speaking of an iteration of the same language.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
So we've got integration platform technology, Chris, which makes it easier.
So how they talk to us, we could translate it so we talk one way to the carriers, and if there's seven different ways shippers talk to us, we can accommodate it.
At the end of the day, that conversation with the carriers can get standardized for us.
So it makes it a lot more easier.
You build it once and you just keep reusing it.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Exactly.
That's back to that common language.
Right.
So Farooq, his translator or like a layer there that gives them a common language to use across.
Right.
These different connections that they're making here.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Okay, so how have.
How have the standards kind of differed, you know, because it seemed like you guys, you know, put some upgrades out there.
So what can people expect if they were using the old system into the new one?
And then like, how does this help reduce any like back and forth or missed appointments and stuff like that due to kind of that upgrade.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, any kind of versions or revs of the standards really come from feedback that we get and get brought up to the workshops, basically.
So, you know, and the same thing has happened with EBOL here as we've gone through different versions, but the workshop comes back together, Chris, actually and reviews this feedback that they get and possible changes.
(13:05):
You know, is it a breaking change?
Will people, everybody have to upgrade to this or is it just maybe just a smaller rev of it here so that they can take advantage of it or they can stay on the current one?
So yeah, you know, I can't think of any off the top of my head, any specific ones here, but yeah, it really just like any other standard or API, you get feedback, hey, this could be a little bit easier or maybe that doesn't work the way we expected it and we just make reps to it basically, but it still goes through the entire process.
(13:42):
Again, do we want to do this?
What's best here and making sure we get a lot of people in there talking about it.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Chris, we think about it from a existing platform perspective, but think about also the amount of venture capital PE money coming into this industry and building new solutions, while it's very simple for them to go to the NMFTA website and say, oh, I have a standard I could follow, I don't need to go reinvent the wheel there.
Right.
So that's, there's also a benefit from that perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So how is this, you know, because obviously, you know, you're talking about PE and venture capital coming in and there's been about.
I think this is just an overstatement.
A thousand AI companies that have came inside of transportation here in the last couple of years.
So how does this differ from what an AI tool does?
Because I feel like that is going to get even more and more complex out there.
(14:35):
The more and more AI evolves, people are going to be like, why do I need any of this old stuff?
Because AI is supposed to do everything.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, yeah, I could start there.
Pete.
Keith.
That you can add to it.
This is a, this is a good foundation for AI tools, Chris, because you know, at the end of the day, the AI is only as good as your data underneath it, right?
And so these standards driving the data standardization and how we connect and digitalize that data will allow your agentic flows and AI flows to go more wider and do things.
(15:04):
I'll give you a quick example.
One of the standards we put out there was for pickup visibility, right?
So once we have that adopted, as we're going through it, I don't really need to worry about how do I take pickup visibility and try to show it to shippers.
I could put agentic flows on top of it.
It just compounds it.
So whether the truck showed up or when it's going to show up, I could use AI to help my shippers know.
(15:28):
Or when the truck didn't show, I can have AI go call the carrier companies and figure out how to reschedule it.
But that digitalization enables that AI workflow.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Okay.
So, I mean, I look at this as a broker myself.
Like, I'm obviously out here.
I'm updating customers all day long, trying to find new customers out there, and I'm trying to bring them more accurate information at a faster speed.
So, like, how does this help, you know, more accurate updates out there?
(16:01):
Right?
Because it's like I want to have something to where we are able to give them and kind of set it up to where it's like every time our system updates, like, we're able to send an update to our customer and really push that as a way to kind of like set that standard.
Because I look at it as like a service provider, a broker.
My real value comes in is how well I communicate and how fast I communicate with what's going on with our customers.
(16:24):
Frame.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah.
And this is giving the framework to build that out here, basically.
But again, I hope I don't say it too much, but it's a common language that allows people to build that out and be able to get that information quickly.
I mean, API is great, right?
Because you can reach out, either push it or reach out and pull it back in to your system according to whatever specs are set up here.
(16:55):
But it's given everybody a common framework to go and be able to build that API and pull it into their system, what's needed here, or push it out here.
Whoever's on the other side has that same language and can provide that for you here.
Did I oversimplify that, Farouk?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
No, you're spot on.
You reduce the amount of humans in the loop as well.
Chris.
Right.
You digitalize it, the more you're going to have less back office needs to have a bunch of people And BPO offshores trying to figure out how do I kind of wrangle things together.
It's digitalized, it's clear, it's available, it's accurate.
Right.
To begin with.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So like, I mean trying to think of it from like a shipper or supply chain person's point of view here.
How does this standard help coordinate with multiple providers who are using different systems out there?
Because I mean there's 50 million technologies for trucking companies and brokers that they're using that need to help coordinate with the shippers.
So like how does it simplify it for them?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, I think it makes it so that they feel like they've got, they can do it once and you know, TMSS, right.
Carriers, three PLs, if we're all on the same standard, they can do it once and know that hey, we've made it available.
Right.
So come and get it.
Or if I push it to you know exactly what I'm pushing out to you here.
(18:21):
So in the case of an E Bill lady, right.
The shipper creates that, they can push it to Worldwide Express, a carrier, a different 3 PL and know that they know how to read that and they know what's coming and they know what to expect from it in the end here.
So it makes that process of making that connection so much quicker and just easier overall instead of a long, drawn out professional service engagement here.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah.
Now Chris, I'll add a little bit more.
This isn't just a few people working on the side trying to kind of define this.
It's under nmft, a well known organization.
Right.
And standard built with the industry, not for the industry.
So it's everybody pitching in under reputable, a known organization to kind of proliferate this and we're building that ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Why would somebody be against this, do you think?
Like, do you think in some of the conversations that you guys have had, I mean I'm assuming there's.
There had to have been somebody at some point who's like, hey we don't want to be sharing anything with any of our competitors out there.
Is that kind of one of the sticking points is they're afraid their data, their information is going to get shared to somebody else and they're going to be able to take it.
(19:35):
And like, with that being said, how are you guys working to protect everybody's information out there?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
So you know, I actually haven't run anybody that's had that strong of a reaction to it.
Right.
You know, one of the main Things that you just have to, you know, work through for anybody that's working on this or even adopting them, is, number one, getting it into their, you know, what they want to do for that year.
(20:04):
Right.
So, I mean, you know, we talk regularly on the council level about, hey, making sure we're getting in front of people now so that as they start building out their budget for next year, this can be included in it here as well.
Now, as far as for the people in the workshops and the councils, right, we do have contributor agreements to make sure that we're covering, you know, that everybody's covered properly as well here.
(20:31):
And, you know, you're coming into this knowing that, hey, you're going to share some information, not expecting to share anything proprietary by any means here, because this is really meant to be a standard for everybody here, so.
But still trying to gain the knowledge, you know, and experience from everybody that's involved in this here is the important part here.
(20:53):
So.
So, you know, we're very careful about that and mindful of it here.
But, you know, we also have competitors on the council, of course.
Right.
You know, and I think it just makes it that much better that they're willing to give their time and energy to this here because, you know, of course they feel it's important, even though, you know, that may be a competitor that's on the zoom call or, you know, the teams call as well here on a monthly basis.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, I think that, you know, from my perspective is it also helps that, you know, when you have the actual size of those organizations that are out there that have full fledged IT teams and, you know, developers on staff, they have a lot deeper technical understanding than most.
But, you know, when you're out here and you're talking about, you know, like standardized things and sharing the same language across the board, I feel like that would be a natural reaction from some of the people who are out there on the sales floor.
(21:50):
Like, wait a second, why are we sharing anything with anybody?
This is our competitive advantage and stuff like that.
And again, I'm just thinking like a broker here, you guys.
I'm just thinking about all of the conversations that I've had over the years and you're like, everybody's kind of guarded about this stuff, but I feel like we're at a point, though, where this is only going to make the right providers better out there in the market, you know what I mean?
(22:12):
And when you're out there simplifying the process Because I feel like at times we make this job way harder on ourselves than we really need to.
And this is just a way to kind of simplify it down to a point to where you're having that set standard across the board.
And, you know, so, like, what opportunities exist out there for logistics software providers to innovate on top of the open API standards that you guys have right now?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Yeah, I think we're not trying to exhaustively define every single nook and cranny, but all boats rise with the tide.
Right, Chris?
So we're trying to make sure that we define enough of the pillars across the journey where enough information sharing can be there, and it benefits from a compounding perspective.
But we're not trying to kind of get into competitive advantages or any of that sort, because there's enough to share in a standardized way that benefits everybody's operations, and everybody kind of wins from that.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Right.
By hitting the main pillars of this information that goes those across everybody's desk here now we're, you know, that almost allows people to really work on those, what could be a competitive advantage or those nooks and crannies there as well, and spend more time on that.
(23:27):
But, you know, everybody knows it's involved in this industry.
We're all interconnected.
Right.
And that's really, you know, those pieces of information is where we're dealing in, those common pieces of information, the bill rating and getting that to flow digitally throughout the entire logistics process and getting rid eventually of paper bill ratings and having to collect that and instead just having it run digitally across each piece of that shipment here.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
How do you.
Oh, I'm sorry, Farouk, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Just one point as a parallel, Chris.
I used to be in the airline industry.
Previously.
You look at airline industry today, all the airlines share their data with each other in a common manner.
Right.
Schedules, details, availability, etc.
But it didn't happen overnight.
Everybody kind of held hands together and moved forward over time to kind of feel comfortable on what was being shared.
(24:24):
And that's what we're trying to kind of propagate here, right, through these standards, is get to a point with all the major players.
So we get to a point where everybody has enough that they're sharing that there's benefits.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
So overall, do you think that this standardization is going to help?
You know, and then you're talking about, like, with the airline example there, help out with like, audits and compliance and, you know, liability and stuff out there and freight moves.
How does this reduce something like that overall.
And that's seemingly a big sticking point for a lot of providers out there at the end of the day.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yeah, Keith, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
You know, I think anytime that you're digitalizing this information and having it available, it definitely going to help out with, you know, in your, what you were talking about audits or compliance is here, so compliance here.
So, you know, it definitely will.
You know, that's probably not something we've brought up just yet, but, you know, I could see down the road it being very helpful with it here.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So, yeah, you know, I look at it as, you know, having more of a unification out there and more of a lot of manufacturing and especially with the, you know, the changes to the NMFTA codes or the NMFC codes, excuse me, that, you know, recently rolled out here.
I, I think more and more of a standardization is going to help clean up the freight audit.
(25:51):
All of that stuff that goes on out there in a lot of people's organizations.
And then I think like, you know, obviously you guys had mentioned that it started in LTL and it's shifting into full truckload now as well.
And I, I think like having more of a standardization out there in the full truckload space is going to only help clean up a lot of this stuff.
Right?
Like, I, I don't know, I, I look at it from like an operator's perspective here and I, I think, and then I like my friends who are also fans of the show, like with denim and you know, and they did a shipper survey and that was a big sticking point.
(26:23):
I was actually shocked at the amount of shippers who judge their providers based on how their back office operates and how the, you know, like the actual closing out of loads operate.
And to me it's like that's like being able to provide a service out there like a freight broker or a trucking company is actually a small like value add because it's like, congratulations, you're doing your job if trucks show up on time and deliver on time.
(26:46):
But it's like how do we help standardize and clean up the back office to make sure?
Because like, I don't know of any customer out there that doesn't want to pay their vendors at the end of the day.
But like they have a set way of doing things.
And I feel like as a service provider it's your job to make sure that's running as seamless as possible.
And I think like an overall standardization is Going to help clean up a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I agree.
And even just our latest release here, preliminary freight charges is that's really the thinking behind that is.
So, yeah, you've got a quote.
Right.
But maybe it gets updated either through a reclassification and, you know, adding on an assessorial or something.
Being able to provide that prior to the invoice coming out so that there's less surprises and you don't have to follow up on it and run into issues that way.
(27:37):
Just really kind of optimizing that whole flow there so that it just happens quicker.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Multifold benefits, right.
Chris?
One obviously is that reduction of manual labor and accuracy on the back office side, but then also so the shipper experience gets better.
So there's compounding to it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
What's a realistic Runway?
Do you guys think of like really kind of setting a standard across the board and getting all of these people, you know, digitally speaking the same language per se?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I don't know.
Farouk, what do you think?
60 days or so?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
I think our standards are going to be in pretty good shape here in the next six, maybe nine months.
Keith.
Right.
I think for the major pillars.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah.
Yep, yep.
So always trying to do them faster.
I mean, that's the thing.
The work groups have actually worked through the PRDs and what needs to be in them.
And now we're just, we're waiting on the tech writing here.
So, you know, that's always the most.
The toughest one to get time from and that stuff.
So.
Yeah, so, but yeah, we're going to be in a pretty good place here and continue to roll these out here.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
Right.
Like I, you know, from my perspective, anything to make my job more efficient out there on the floor, I'm always all ears for, like, I tell people all the time, if you can come to me with a way to make more money and provide a better service to my customer, like, I'm all ears to that.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Like, just because I've done something a certain way does not mean I am not open to change, to go out there and to bring that service out there to my customers and future customers out there.
But gentlemen, thank you guys so much for taking the time to join me today.
How does anybody reach out to you gu find out more about this and, you know, and possibly get in contact with you?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, that DSDC site and you could just Google dsdcmfta and it'll get you right to the site.
There's actually a contact, a form you can fill out on there to start getting updates on what we're doing.
And we send out quarterly newsletters as well as send it out to everybody whenever we have a release or any other type of news.
(29:45):
So that's a great place to go to find out what we're doing and get updates as well.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Perfect.
And we'll put that link out there in the show notes for you guys.
Keith Farouk, thank you guys so much for taking the time to join me today.
That is going to be it, ladies and gentlemen, as always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
You guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify.
Because if you saw value, your network's going to see it as well.
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Came back with a foot on the gas pedal to the metal When I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey let them all cross if they had made him make a bigger boss a.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them Make a bigger boss hey.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
What is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation, coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
(00:46):
And I do say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Happy Thursday, everybody.
I got a couple of special guests for you guys here today.
(01:08):
That's right, we had two of them coming onto the show and we're going to talk about just kind of the digitization of transportation and what's going on out there and kind of like a standard that needs to be set and that has been set in some of the options that are available to you.
So.
So I have Mr. Keith Peterson on the show as well as Farouk Huda on the show to break all of this down.
So, gentlemen, thank you guys so much for taking the time to join me today.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thanks for having us here, Chris.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, thanks, Chris.
Excited to join you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, absolutely.
And, you know, so the Digital Standards Development Council, it, you know, it's a part of the NMWTA there and everything.
What, what was the driving force behind starting something like this?
And, and really, I think, I mean, I think anybody who works in the transportation industry will always say, like, we're like 15 years behind in from like a technology perspective.
(01:59):
And it seemingly over the last five years has really closed the gap and there's been like a lot of advancement out there in the market.
So kind of like, what was the real driving force behind this?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
So I'll start Farooq, if you don't mind, here, and then go ahead and jump in wherever you want there.
But, you know, it really started with an LTL council, but not just LTL carriers, also three PLs, shippers and carriers as well.
Where we really wanted to bring together people and kind of come up with this common language for the LTL industry is where it started to make the digitalization of it that much easier so we don't have to redo things time and time again whenever we want to make another connection here.
(02:45):
And since then, we've actually added a full truckloads council now as well.
That is mirroring what the LTL Council has been doing for the last few years here and working hard to catch up to them as well here.
So, Farouk, I mean, what would you like to add to that?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
No, I think digitalization sweeping the industry.
Right.
And so I think that's just an essential first step for us to try to figure out how to integrate and get.
Get everybody talking the same way rather than pockets of information.
So I think it's a really valuable effort.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So, like, from a leadership perspective, how does adopting like an open API standard, you know, future proof transportation as a whole, like what?
How does it future proof it and then, like, also provide a competitive edge out there?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Baruch, you want to take that one and I'll jump in?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yeah, I think it's important for creating this ecosystem, Chris, where everybody's working together, not kind of in their own silos.
Right.
So what that does is we've defined standards and Keith's been driving this across the board on very thoughtful API definitions and digitalization.
So it's not just what do we need now, but it's more thoughtfully around how do we unlock that value for the shippers for the next three to five years so thoughtfully doing these APIs and utilization definitions so they can be reused and extrapolate over the next few years.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Farouk and I were talking earlier this week, and I thought he brought up a great point.
A lack of standards creates really essentially tech debt here.
And as Farouk said, we're being really thoughtful about where the most value is going to come from these standards that we're developing out there.
So that I think he already said five years from now we can reuse that as we continue to build on this here.
(04:39):
And I can tell you just in the workshops, new ideas come up all the time.
I was just one this morning, and as were working through just a standard API on invoice and documentation for the whole truckload side, some good ideas came out of that for in the future.
All right, what's the next version going to look like?
(05:00):
So having everybody together Kind of thinking through this is really exciting and really starting to gain some momentum here.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think it'd be good to kind of add, like, what is a standard API connection out there for those of those who are listening right now, and they're like, how would they access that from their organization who might have a limited, you know, tech understanding of it?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, so there's.
There's actually a few that are already released.
The first one we released was E Billating and we've had few versions since then as well.
You know, we just released preliminary freight charges for ltl and on the full truckload side, we actually that kind of came from a different consortium, the Scheduling Standards Consortium.
(05:49):
So we've adopted their scheduling standard as well here.
Now, to go see all these, you can go to nmfpa.org and there's a DSDC or Digital Standards Development Group link in there that you can go to.
And it'll have information on everything that we're doing, as well as ways to get in and view these standards here.
(06:11):
And we have them in mainly in Swagger, but other, you know, other forms as well.
But going forward, you know, we're going to provide it in Swagger.
You'll also see a PRD in there as well.
So.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Just to add one more thing, it's being done looking at the customer journey.
So we're not just like picking things.
It's from how do we support a digital booking to how do we look at pickup visibility, to how do we look at invoicing charges and then eventually disputes or claims.
Right.
So we're kind of looking across the shipper journey to make sure we thought, think through it in a very concise manner.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So, I mean, like, you're bringing up the ebols there in, you know, and a couple of other things.
So, like, what are some of the biggest technical hurdles, do you think, like, into existing RTMS platforms that IT departments are going to potentially be faced with?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Farouk, I'll let you take that one.
I think that's one for that.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I think this depends on some of the systems that are out there.
Some of the SaaS providers are a lot more up to speed on their technology and platforms, but some of the legacy platforms may be a little bit harder on how do you unlock that data and how do you follow that standard.
But now there's enough integration technology and integration, you know, solutions out there that it's easy for them to at least say, half the problem is picking what technology, but the other half of how we define that part of it of a very clear, concise spec of exactly how you need to talk to others.
(07:43):
So that part is made easier through this effort.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And I'll add as well a lot of, and I've said this before to the councils, you know, it's all going, it's going to start gaining momentum as more and more people and organizations adopt these standards, starting with e bill of 80.
And right now, you know, it's almost like we're trying to push a rock up the hill but eventually it's going to get over that hill and it's going to take right off for us here.
(08:10):
So, you know, we already have people like C.H.
robinson, Old Dominion Freight Lines, you know, Worldwide Express, you know, that are putting this into play and starting to make these connections.
So it's going to start gaining more momentum here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
What would like a typical integration period look like if you're going to go out there and access API?
Like how long is the testing look like?
Because I think like, you know, when people hear some of these terms out there, they're thinking it's going to be a long and drawn out process that comes along with it.
And you know, depending on what tech vendors they're using out there, some people kind of like to sell that as a, from what I understand, a lot bigger deal than what it is to do some API testing.
(08:53):
Like, well, I've had somebody explain it to me like this in simple terms.
Like it's essentially like plugging a toaster into the wall.
Either it works or it doesn't.
And then we troubleshoot and find the areas where we need to patch and then have the process run smoothly from there.
Is that accurate?
What is like a, kind of like a general timeline would look like?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yeah, I think I can talk from our perspective, from a 3 PL perspective for worldwide Express.
For us it's weeks to a month, a few months process only because you have to look at how you're integrating with the carriers today and how do you switch over to this new standard.
And this new standard will enable you to get more richer data.
(09:32):
So it just depends how much you've abstracted that in your current technology platform or if you've got it very embedded, then it's a little bit more work.
And you know, each carrier has a little bit, slightly slight nuance to how they do the implementation.
So carrier by carrier you can kind of look at.
But the benefits we're seeing is tremendous.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And I think really the end goal of this as we Said is to have a common language for people to use.
Right.
So the initial work on it may be a little bit more, but the end goal is to make more connections that much quicker as more and more people use these standards, instead of having to work through the differences.
(10:16):
You know, we've got a common set here of terms of fields, and they should be that much easier just to connect here.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Start doing it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And I was gonna say that was gonna be my next question is it's like it seems that with multiple different proprietary systems out there, that's going to garner a longer integration period because everybody's code speaks differently, and we're going to need to go out there and really, you know, kind of iron that out.
So it's like, seemingly the overall goal is how do we get all systems out there talking the same language to have kind of like a universal API out there to where it's like as simple as plugging in a toaster to the wall.
(10:57):
And it should be up and running as soon as possible because all of them are speaking the same technical language out there.
And, you know, it's like, you know, talking about, like, you know, standard ebols or standard, you know, pickup appointments and stuff like that across the board.
It's.
It's kind of like, you know, a way to make it as smooth as, like, I can see a performance improvement coming across the board from that when all of them, like, I feel like it's even more accurate updates and stuff.
(11:21):
So, Farooq, I mean, with you being on the 3 PL side like that, do you see that out there where it's like, if five shippers that you guys are working with have a different TMS that they're operating on, it takes a lot longer to integrate it as opposed to if they kind of have like more of a set sample system where each system is kind of speaking of an iteration of the same language.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
So we've got integration platform technology, Chris, which makes it easier.
So how they talk to us, we could translate it so we talk one way to the carriers, and if there's seven different ways shippers talk to us, we can accommodate it.
At the end of the day, that conversation with the carriers can get standardized for us.
So it makes it a lot more easier.
You build it once and you just keep reusing it.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Exactly.
That's back to that common language.
Right.
So Farooq, his translator or like a layer there that gives them a common language to use across.
Right.
These different connections that they're making here.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Okay, so how have.
How have the standards kind of differed, you know, because it seemed like you guys, you know, put some upgrades out there.
So what can people expect if they were using the old system into the new one?
And then like, how does this help reduce any like back and forth or missed appointments and stuff like that due to kind of that upgrade.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, any kind of versions or revs of the standards really come from feedback that we get and get brought up to the workshops, basically.
So, you know, and the same thing has happened with EBOL here as we've gone through different versions, but the workshop comes back together, Chris, actually and reviews this feedback that they get and possible changes.
(13:05):
You know, is it a breaking change?
Will people, everybody have to upgrade to this or is it just maybe just a smaller rev of it here so that they can take advantage of it or they can stay on the current one?
So yeah, you know, I can't think of any off the top of my head, any specific ones here, but yeah, it really just like any other standard or API, you get feedback, hey, this could be a little bit easier or maybe that doesn't work the way we expected it and we just make reps to it basically, but it still goes through the entire process.
(13:42):
Again, do we want to do this?
What's best here and making sure we get a lot of people in there talking about it.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Chris, we think about it from a existing platform perspective, but think about also the amount of venture capital PE money coming into this industry and building new solutions, while it's very simple for them to go to the NMFTA website and say, oh, I have a standard I could follow, I don't need to go reinvent the wheel there.
Right.
So that's, there's also a benefit from that perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So how is this, you know, because obviously, you know, you're talking about PE and venture capital coming in and there's been about.
I think this is just an overstatement.
A thousand AI companies that have came inside of transportation here in the last couple of years.
So how does this differ from what an AI tool does?
Because I feel like that is going to get even more and more complex out there.
(14:35):
The more and more AI evolves, people are going to be like, why do I need any of this old stuff?
Because AI is supposed to do everything.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, yeah, I could start there.
Pete.
Keith.
That you can add to it.
This is a, this is a good foundation for AI tools, Chris, because you know, at the end of the day, the AI is only as good as your data underneath it, right?
And so these standards driving the data standardization and how we connect and digitalize that data will allow your agentic flows and AI flows to go more wider and do things.
(15:04):
I'll give you a quick example.
One of the standards we put out there was for pickup visibility, right?
So once we have that adopted, as we're going through it, I don't really need to worry about how do I take pickup visibility and try to show it to shippers.
I could put agentic flows on top of it.
It just compounds it.
So whether the truck showed up or when it's going to show up, I could use AI to help my shippers know.
(15:28):
Or when the truck didn't show, I can have AI go call the carrier companies and figure out how to reschedule it.
But that digitalization enables that AI workflow.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Okay.
So, I mean, I look at this as a broker myself.
Like, I'm obviously out here.
I'm updating customers all day long, trying to find new customers out there, and I'm trying to bring them more accurate information at a faster speed.
So, like, how does this help, you know, more accurate updates out there?
(16:01):
Right?
Because it's like I want to have something to where we are able to give them and kind of set it up to where it's like every time our system updates, like, we're able to send an update to our customer and really push that as a way to kind of like set that standard.
Because I look at it as like a service provider, a broker.
My real value comes in is how well I communicate and how fast I communicate with what's going on with our customers.
(16:24):
Frame.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah.
And this is giving the framework to build that out here, basically.
But again, I hope I don't say it too much, but it's a common language that allows people to build that out and be able to get that information quickly.
I mean, API is great, right?
Because you can reach out, either push it or reach out and pull it back in to your system according to whatever specs are set up here.
(16:55):
But it's given everybody a common framework to go and be able to build that API and pull it into their system, what's needed here, or push it out here.
Whoever's on the other side has that same language and can provide that for you here.
Did I oversimplify that, Farouk?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
No, you're spot on.
You reduce the amount of humans in the loop as well.
Chris.
Right.
You digitalize it, the more you're going to have less back office needs to have a bunch of people And BPO offshores trying to figure out how do I kind of wrangle things together.
It's digitalized, it's clear, it's available, it's accurate.
Right.
To begin with.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So like, I mean trying to think of it from like a shipper or supply chain person's point of view here.
How does this standard help coordinate with multiple providers who are using different systems out there?
Because I mean there's 50 million technologies for trucking companies and brokers that they're using that need to help coordinate with the shippers.
So like how does it simplify it for them?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, I think it makes it so that they feel like they've got, they can do it once and you know, TMSS, right.
Carriers, three PLs, if we're all on the same standard, they can do it once and know that hey, we've made it available.
Right.
So come and get it.
Or if I push it to you know exactly what I'm pushing out to you here.
(18:21):
So in the case of an E Bill lady, right.
The shipper creates that, they can push it to Worldwide Express, a carrier, a different 3 PL and know that they know how to read that and they know what's coming and they know what to expect from it in the end here.
So it makes that process of making that connection so much quicker and just easier overall instead of a long, drawn out professional service engagement here.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah.
Now Chris, I'll add a little bit more.
This isn't just a few people working on the side trying to kind of define this.
It's under nmft, a well known organization.
Right.
And standard built with the industry, not for the industry.
So it's everybody pitching in under reputable, a known organization to kind of proliferate this and we're building that ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Why would somebody be against this, do you think?
Like, do you think in some of the conversations that you guys have had, I mean I'm assuming there's.
There had to have been somebody at some point who's like, hey we don't want to be sharing anything with any of our competitors out there.
Is that kind of one of the sticking points is they're afraid their data, their information is going to get shared to somebody else and they're going to be able to take it.
(19:35):
And like, with that being said, how are you guys working to protect everybody's information out there?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
So you know, I actually haven't run anybody that's had that strong of a reaction to it.
Right.
You know, one of the main Things that you just have to, you know, work through for anybody that's working on this or even adopting them, is, number one, getting it into their, you know, what they want to do for that year.
(20:04):
Right.
So, I mean, you know, we talk regularly on the council level about, hey, making sure we're getting in front of people now so that as they start building out their budget for next year, this can be included in it here as well.
Now, as far as for the people in the workshops and the councils, right, we do have contributor agreements to make sure that we're covering, you know, that everybody's covered properly as well here.
(20:31):
And, you know, you're coming into this knowing that, hey, you're going to share some information, not expecting to share anything proprietary by any means here, because this is really meant to be a standard for everybody here, so.
But still trying to gain the knowledge, you know, and experience from everybody that's involved in this here is the important part here.
(20:53):
So.
So, you know, we're very careful about that and mindful of it here.
But, you know, we also have competitors on the council, of course.
Right.
You know, and I think it just makes it that much better that they're willing to give their time and energy to this here because, you know, of course they feel it's important, even though, you know, that may be a competitor that's on the zoom call or, you know, the teams call as well here on a monthly basis.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, I think that, you know, from my perspective is it also helps that, you know, when you have the actual size of those organizations that are out there that have full fledged IT teams and, you know, developers on staff, they have a lot deeper technical understanding than most.
But, you know, when you're out here and you're talking about, you know, like standardized things and sharing the same language across the board, I feel like that would be a natural reaction from some of the people who are out there on the sales floor.
(21:50):
Like, wait a second, why are we sharing anything with anybody?
This is our competitive advantage and stuff like that.
And again, I'm just thinking like a broker here, you guys.
I'm just thinking about all of the conversations that I've had over the years and you're like, everybody's kind of guarded about this stuff, but I feel like we're at a point, though, where this is only going to make the right providers better out there in the market, you know what I mean?
(22:12):
And when you're out there simplifying the process Because I feel like at times we make this job way harder on ourselves than we really need to.
And this is just a way to kind of simplify it down to a point to where you're having that set standard across the board.
And, you know, so, like, what opportunities exist out there for logistics software providers to innovate on top of the open API standards that you guys have right now?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Yeah, I think we're not trying to exhaustively define every single nook and cranny, but all boats rise with the tide.
Right, Chris?
So we're trying to make sure that we define enough of the pillars across the journey where enough information sharing can be there, and it benefits from a compounding perspective.
But we're not trying to kind of get into competitive advantages or any of that sort, because there's enough to share in a standardized way that benefits everybody's operations, and everybody kind of wins from that.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.
Right.
By hitting the main pillars of this information that goes those across everybody's desk here now we're, you know, that almost allows people to really work on those, what could be a competitive advantage or those nooks and crannies there as well, and spend more time on that.
(23:27):
But, you know, everybody knows it's involved in this industry.
We're all interconnected.
Right.
And that's really, you know, those pieces of information is where we're dealing in, those common pieces of information, the bill rating and getting that to flow digitally throughout the entire logistics process and getting rid eventually of paper bill ratings and having to collect that and instead just having it run digitally across each piece of that shipment here.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
How do you.
Oh, I'm sorry, Farouk, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Just one point as a parallel, Chris.
I used to be in the airline industry.
Previously.
You look at airline industry today, all the airlines share their data with each other in a common manner.
Right.
Schedules, details, availability, etc.
But it didn't happen overnight.
Everybody kind of held hands together and moved forward over time to kind of feel comfortable on what was being shared.
(24:24):
And that's what we're trying to kind of propagate here, right, through these standards, is get to a point with all the major players.
So we get to a point where everybody has enough that they're sharing that there's benefits.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
So overall, do you think that this standardization is going to help?
You know, and then you're talking about, like, with the airline example there, help out with like, audits and compliance and, you know, liability and stuff out there and freight moves.
How does this reduce something like that overall.
And that's seemingly a big sticking point for a lot of providers out there at the end of the day.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Yeah, Keith, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
You know, I think anytime that you're digitalizing this information and having it available, it definitely going to help out with, you know, in your, what you were talking about audits or compliance is here, so compliance here.
So, you know, it definitely will.
You know, that's probably not something we've brought up just yet, but, you know, I could see down the road it being very helpful with it here.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So, yeah, you know, I look at it as, you know, having more of a unification out there and more of a lot of manufacturing and especially with the, you know, the changes to the NMFTA codes or the NMFC codes, excuse me, that, you know, recently rolled out here.
I, I think more and more of a standardization is going to help clean up the freight audit.
(25:51):
All of that stuff that goes on out there in a lot of people's organizations.
And then I think like, you know, obviously you guys had mentioned that it started in LTL and it's shifting into full truckload now as well.
And I, I think like having more of a standardization out there in the full truckload space is going to only help clean up a lot of this stuff.
Right?
Like, I, I don't know, I, I look at it from like an operator's perspective here and I, I think, and then I like my friends who are also fans of the show, like with denim and you know, and they did a shipper survey and that was a big sticking point.
(26:23):
I was actually shocked at the amount of shippers who judge their providers based on how their back office operates and how the, you know, like the actual closing out of loads operate.
And to me it's like that's like being able to provide a service out there like a freight broker or a trucking company is actually a small like value add because it's like, congratulations, you're doing your job if trucks show up on time and deliver on time.
(26:46):
But it's like how do we help standardize and clean up the back office to make sure?
Because like, I don't know of any customer out there that doesn't want to pay their vendors at the end of the day.
But like they have a set way of doing things.
And I feel like as a service provider it's your job to make sure that's running as seamless as possible.
And I think like an overall standardization is Going to help clean up a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I agree.
And even just our latest release here, preliminary freight charges is that's really the thinking behind that is.
So, yeah, you've got a quote.
Right.
But maybe it gets updated either through a reclassification and, you know, adding on an assessorial or something.
Being able to provide that prior to the invoice coming out so that there's less surprises and you don't have to follow up on it and run into issues that way.
(27:37):
Just really kind of optimizing that whole flow there so that it just happens quicker.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Multifold benefits, right.
Chris?
One obviously is that reduction of manual labor and accuracy on the back office side, but then also so the shipper experience gets better.
So there's compounding to it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
What's a realistic Runway?
Do you guys think of like really kind of setting a standard across the board and getting all of these people, you know, digitally speaking the same language per se?
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I don't know.
Farouk, what do you think?
60 days or so?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
I think our standards are going to be in pretty good shape here in the next six, maybe nine months.
Keith.
Right.
I think for the major pillars.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah.
Yep, yep.
So always trying to do them faster.
I mean, that's the thing.
The work groups have actually worked through the PRDs and what needs to be in them.
And now we're just, we're waiting on the tech writing here.
So, you know, that's always the most.
The toughest one to get time from and that stuff.
So.
Yeah, so, but yeah, we're going to be in a pretty good place here and continue to roll these out here.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
Right.
Like I, you know, from my perspective, anything to make my job more efficient out there on the floor, I'm always all ears for, like, I tell people all the time, if you can come to me with a way to make more money and provide a better service to my customer, like, I'm all ears to that.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Like, just because I've done something a certain way does not mean I am not open to change, to go out there and to bring that service out there to my customers and future customers out there.
But gentlemen, thank you guys so much for taking the time to join me today.
How does anybody reach out to you gu find out more about this and, you know, and possibly get in contact with you?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, that DSDC site and you could just Google dsdcmfta and it'll get you right to the site.
There's actually a contact, a form you can fill out on there to start getting updates on what we're doing.
And we send out quarterly newsletters as well as send it out to everybody whenever we have a release or any other type of news.
(29:45):
So that's a great place to go to find out what we're doing and get updates as well.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Perfect.
And we'll put that link out there in the show notes for you guys.
Keith Farouk, thank you guys so much for taking the time to join me today.
That is going to be it, ladies and gentlemen, as always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
You guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify.
Because if you saw value, your network's going to see it as well.
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Came back with a foot on the gas pedal to the metal When I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey let them all cross if they had made him make a bigger boss a.
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