September 8, 2025 • 29 mins
Are broker transparency rules the solution to today’s freight challenges, or should we be focusing more on enforcement and safety? We’re excited to bring The Armchair Attorney back to the show, Matt Leffler, to break down the FMCSA’s latest delay on broker transparency updates, why the current 371.3 requirements remain unchanged, and what this means for brokers, carriers, and shippers!
We delve into how market dynamics, tighter margins, and reduced consumer spending are shaping rates, and why stricter enforcement of maintenance and safety regulations could have a greater impact on the industry than transparency alone. Hear another straightforward take on what’s really driving the transportation market!
About Matthew Leffler
Matthew is a 3rd generation supply chain executive with over fifteen years of experience in safety, law, & maintenance. Matthew currently serves as Vice President of Strategic Accounts at Contract Leasing Corp. He is also an attorney that provides legal commentary on various supply chain issues & operates a popular podcast. In addition, Matthew has served as a senior leader with some of the nation’s most admired maintenance, repair, & fleet management firms. Matthew entered the industry as an attorney defending trucking companies in civil litigation in 2010, but cut his teeth helping build & later selling his family’s maintenance firm, Outsource Fleet Services, Inc.
Matthew earned his J.D. from Michigan State University College of Law, Magna Cum Laude, and his B.A. from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. He is licensed to practice law in the State of Illinois; U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois; & 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. Matthew is the proud father of Michael, Rowan, Elise, & Elijah & has been happily married to his wife, Holly, since 2008.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them make a bigger balls.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
(00:45):
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
And I do say that before every single show.
What I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
(01:05):
Happy Monday, everybody.
I got a very special guest for you guys today.
I'm going to bring him up in a second, but my team always likes to remind me of this.
So I got to say this at the front of the episode as well.
If you get value in what you hear today and you're not subscribed, subscribe to the show, you guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, we're which you will, I promise, rank the show on itunes and Spotify.
(01:25):
Because if you saw value, your network's going to see value as well.
Now, everybody's favorite topic, and ironically, everybody's favorite attorney is on this show.
But as I say, every time a lawyer comes on this show, we're going to be.
What we're going to be talking about today is not legal advice.
If you need an attorney, you need to call one because this guy is not your attorney.
But with that being said, I got my man Matt Leffler back on the show to break some stuff down.
(01:48):
Matt, what's going on, brother?
How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
What happens to freight transparency deferred?
Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun or fester like a sore and then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat or crust and sugar over like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags like a heavy load or does it explode?
Thank you for having me, Chris.
I'm happy to be back dude, were.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You in drama club in high school?
Like, I swear to God, you were like a poet and in a past life or something.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I was an actor.
I was a player in the fall, an actor in the winter and a track and field runner in the spring.
But yes, I was always busy.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Dude, it's, you know, we got a lot to talk about today and like, I always enjoy having actual attorneys come on the show who can, you know, critically break a lot of these topics down.
Because, you know, the gift and the cursed of social media is everybody has an opinion and sometimes people sound really convincing in their opinions out there.
(02:52):
But you know, I have a lot of opinions on stuff but that doesn't mean that it's like, you know, legal and could actually stand a chance in the court of law and all of that shit.
So, you know, I want to jump right in.
You know, it was timely that we had decided a while back for you to come on the show and then you just put out a post last week.
Is what is on everybody's favorite topic is broker transparency why freight brokers are stealing from everybody in the industry.
(03:17):
But what's some important updates on that?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Well, first and foremost, let me be very clear, we organize these things and the law kind of follows behind us.
Like they hear what we're going to do a podcast together.
Like, oh, let's make sure we get all the updates up for everybody.
So first and foremost, I'll also mention this.
No one makes money in transportation right now.
I mean this is not a time that brokers aren't making a ton.
Motorcares aren't making a ton.
But we are seeing some activity on this idea of broker transparency when brokers have to produce records of a broker transaction to motor carriers.
(03:49):
This is a modification or proposed rule on 371.3 and it's not a radio station.
It's actually federal code about brokers and what they're supposed to disclose.
But we had a notice of proposed rulemaking not terribly long ago.
Over 6,000 comments were filed.
The proposed rule was going to basically be two things.
(04:09):
One, you would have to produce the records of a broker transaction in 48 hours from a request and they had to be in an electronic format.
You had to send them by email or whatever that had another period of comments.
So more people commented once again.
And we learned last week that the FMCSA is not going to have a final rule.
(04:30):
So as opposed to making a final rule modifying the old one of 37 1.3, they are going to do another supplemental proposed rulemaking likely in May of 2026 which means everything that we thought about is on delay, deferred, nothing is changing and we'll find out more in May.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Do you think like does this open up?
Because like my biggest counter argument to 37 the non radio station out there is the.
I feel like when this law was written the broker and carrier relationship was vastly different, right?
Like carriers would actually hire freight brokerages to go out there and find freight on their behalf.
(05:12):
That's just not the way that the transaction works anymore.
And you know, because I'm out there, I find freight and then we go out, we develop carrier relationships based on the lanes that our customers want us to work.
And I truly in my heart of hearts feel that this is more aligned with a dispatch service in today's day and age than a what an actual freight broker does for the market and the transaction itself.
(05:38):
So my question to you Matt is does this open up the door where you know an organization, I'm not speaking on behalf of the tia, but the TIA would come in and be like hey, we need to really petition to change the verbiage of this because this not the way it is anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, I think it's important to understand where we've been to understand where we're going.
And to your point, initially in the old days when brokers were growing in the industry, they were helping motor carriers find backhauls and they were connecting shippers with motor carriers.
That shipper would pay the motor carrier directly and the broker would have transparency to say hey how much were you paying?
(06:14):
Get a piece of that.
That is not how it works.
As you well kind of articulated, it's two transactions.
It's a broker and a shipper and then a motor carrier with that broker.
That's two different things happening.
I fundamentally believe the FMCSA does not have statutory authority to actually do transparency.
This is outside of their mandate.
They are not a regulator.
That's looking at private contracts between motor carriers and brokers.
(06:34):
That's not their a good use of their resources.
When 80% of motorcares have zero information on the FMCSA.
We have out of service rates that are bananas.
We have English language proficiency.
We'll get to a little bit.
They have bigger fish to fry.
So my belief, my hope is that we're going to fast forward into May and maybe FMCSA comes out and says hey, we realize this doesn't do anything.
(06:56):
No one's utilizing this today.
This is kind of outside of our expertise.
We'll see though.
I don't know where it's going to go.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Who does this fall under then, Matt?
Like what?
Like, because I feel like, you know, again, I try and be as fair and central on a lot of this stuff as possible, even being a freight broker, but there are drivers out there who want further clarification on this.
And then inevitably and again, you guys, I hate to break it to you, but like, this is just the way that the government works, right?
They're going to put another question session out there and then there's going to be another tweet sent out in another committee that's going to be formed.
(07:28):
All at the expense of our tax dollars, by the way.
But anyways, that's a topic for another show.
My fear is for those individuals out there who are like, no, I want to feel heard is that it's going to like they're not going to know who to go to and then it's going to be back to square one all over again.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, I think that what I caution anyone motor carrier broker, like if you are trying to grow and you think of growth and you say this is how the path I do that's ambition.
If you're looking at a path to grow and say the only reason I'm not is because this person is in my way, this is an obstacle.
You are finding someone else to hold accountable for your own failures.
And I'm going to be very clear here.
(08:05):
I think that what we're going to see in the proposed rule, if they go the direction of Aida and others, they're going to say the, that this disclosure is mandatory and it is something you cannot waive.
So right now every motor carry and every broker and contracts that are out there, this 371.3 live is still there, but they waive it.
(08:25):
They write a contract and they say I'm not going to ask for these records.
As a motor carrier, there is more pricing information at your fingertips today than there has ever been.
Whether it's DAT or truck stop or green screens and Triumph, like there's a highway.
There's a million ways to better understand how much you can charge for what you do.
And if you think that knowing how much the broker made from the shipper is the barrier to your growth, you might be mistaken.
(08:53):
The other piece that we haven't really talked about is the shippers don't want this information getting out.
Not necessarily the pricing information.
They don't want a bunch of back solicitation.
They work with intermediaries for a particular purpose.
So that's the kind of the path I see happening, Chris, is either you're going to go all in and say we need disclosure or to your other point, let Congress pass a law.
Congress can pass a law and say we need to, we want to make sure brokers are making sure they're disclosing things to motorcares.
(09:18):
I don't think they would, but it's where we're at right now.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I just honestly think that what you said earlier, Matt, is very true.
I think there's bigger fish to fry out there.
And again, I'm not discrediting anybody's feelings on if they think that they're getting screwed over.
But you know, again, I just want people to just think critically for a second.
Look at the verbiage inside of the non radio station, read it carefully and ask yourself, when was the last time you specifically hired a freight broker to find freight on your behalf?
(09:53):
Ask yourself that question and then if the answer is never, you should ask yourself, who am I hiring to find freight on my behalf?
Are they not associated with my company?
And, and then are they showing what we are getting paid on this load or are they changing those numbers?
Right.
Like again, I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but like that's where I would want to start.
(10:15):
Because again, as a freight broker, no carrier is calling me and saying, hey Chris, I need you to find freight for me on my behalf out there.
All right?
We love working with the same carriers time and time again, but we are going to them 100 times out of 100.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
And when I go to Target and I buy a bluey shirt for my daughter and I, I start screaming about how much did Target pay for this bluey shirt?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Rein that in.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Because I'm not gonna buy unless I know exactly how much Target bought.
It's a preposterous idea.
It's a preposterous idea.
But really what I get back to, there's no reason a motor carrier can't just ask a broker and say, hey, how much did you get paid here?
Maybe they tell you, maybe they don't.
But to have the federal government come in and say this is what two businesses are going to agree to and we're going to jump in and look at every single one of them.
(11:05):
You do not want to go back to a regulated industry, folks.
You don't want that.
It will mean a lot more compliance, a lot more Problems because when you grow government you typically grow problems and we don't need those.
If you don't like working with that broker or you don't know what it costs to operate your vehicle safely and deliver freight on time and undamaged, then you're probably in the wrong business.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I, I'm right there with you.
I don't, I don't think more government is ever the answer for like literally anything I would highly caution to get like somehow it's going to cost us more.
Like my.
Every time I think of that.
Matt, have you ever seen that meme where it's like you see rockets being shot in one direction and then rockets being shot in another and it said my tax dollars one side and then somehow also my tax dollars.
(11:51):
That's how I feel like this is all going to boil down.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's just going to be another waste of it.
And you know I, I also look at it as is, you know, if you look at the overall freight market that's out there, you look at the largest publicly traded companies that are inside of the transportation industry.
All of this stuff is listed out there.
And again I'm not calling on C.H.
robinson here at all but they are by revenue the largest provider in the industry.
(12:18):
They have touched every organization that ships freight.
In my opinion right could be wrong on that.
But if you want a really, really good guess on where the market is they have the most data and it's free.
You can go look at their 10k or you know our mutual friend Ken here who says he needs Mr. Adamo up in Animo.
(12:40):
Ken posts out stuff all the time on LinkedIn that because dat very large organization.
Lots and lots.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I've heard of them.
I've heard of them.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah small just couple transactions information to.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Build off of just Ken in general and how you grow freight rates because at the end of the day this is what the argument is about for motorcare is asking.
I don't think I'm getting a fair shake.
I think I'm not getting as much as I deserve.
You should want is better enforcement of the existing regulations.
So let me pull the curtain behind the wall and show you guys what actually drives rates up either.
(13:14):
There's increased demand from consumers buying things and unfortunately the American consumers not doing so hot.
They're not buying a bunch of stuff.
The other way is you reduce the capacity the actual motor cures and you do that by enforcing the existing regulations which will transition Chris to our conversation of English language proficiency.
But much More broadly on vehicle maintenance and all the things that are required to deliver things safely on time and undamaged enforcing regulations, I guarantee you will see rates go up over time.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, it's, we're at a very interesting time with a lot of it, you know, because there's a lot of talk out there.
You know, you like, you hear, you know, tariffs for example, there's a large crowd out there who are anti terrorists and everything else.
And again like I get it and if you look at it in the short term, like yeah, it can and has kind of caused a little bit of a mess out there.
(14:11):
But long term I'm always going to be pro America, re industrialize America and bring all of that stuff back here.
But it's not going to happen overnight.
And you know, I think like there's a lot kind of riding on that has caused, you know, again I've been very critical of the current administration on the flip flopping aspect of things.
I truly feel like that has caused an extended stagnation in the market because a lot of people who import goods at the end of the day, why buy today at 20 when somebody could wake up and be in a better mood and drop it to 10 tomorrow or you know, worse, they get pissed off and then they fucking raise it to 130%.
(14:50):
Right.
Like I feel like it's highly irresponsible from that regard.
We need stability to come from that to I think like quell people's emotions about wanting to buy more inventory.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
What we are seeing on the tariff piece and I'll kind of take a brief aside to folks kind of understand where we are in this thing right now.
So there was a case called VOS Selections, it's an importer in New York.
They sued the Trump administration in the Court of International Trade.
It's a, it's a U S based court.
They won there, said the tariffs were illegal.
They appealed to the Federal Circuit Court, they won there as well.
(15:22):
Trump lost there at that point.
But those tariffs remain in place up through Probably, I think October 14th or 15th depending on whether the US Supreme Court weighs in.
You generally do not want to make foreign trade and foreign policy based on emergency declarations like it is.
That's exactly why we see this trepidation from investors and from the market generally.
(15:43):
If you're an American manufacturer and you're contemplating bringing things closer to home and you see that the only reason is because someone declared an emergency, meaning that the next president can Declare a different emergency.
You're not going to invest your capital because there's so much uncertainty.
If, if you love tariffs, Congress should pass those things, President should sign those things, then that's the law.
(16:06):
If you're just operating off of emergency powers you were setting up, you're building a foundation on sand.
And it will not fail.
It will absolutely fail if you build on sand in that Mormon.
I, I worry about it.
I worry about it.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
No, I, I do, too.
Right at the end of the day.
And again, I am not sitting here and saying that I, I am 1000% pro America.
I america first and everything.
And I know it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I'm with you, man.
I'm American.
I want America to do well.
I do.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
But I feel like it's becoming a lot more messy than I think I anticipated out that day.
I never thought that there wasn't going to be any pushback towards it.
But I, I also look at it as is.
Like, I want, I think, I don't care what political party you're a part of.
I want you to follow the law of the land and the Constitution and everything.
(16:51):
I don't want you.
And again, we're not here to argue about who abuses powers more.
Because, like, we could go on a four hour.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Okay, so let me.
I want to build off that, though, because this is the part I think people forget.
This is what I might talk about, I. E. By the International Emergency Economic Powers act of 1977, signed by Jimmy Carter, overriding the Trading with the Enemies Act.
What is important to remember is these powers stay with the office.
They do not leave when the person in office goes.
And so if you look at what's happening and think what would happen if my biggest political adversary think it's aoc, runs for president, and she says, day one, we have an emergency on greenhouse gases.
(17:28):
Every internal combustion engine, every component has a 5,000% tariff.
Could we stop it?
Could you stop it?
This is why we have to be very careful about using emergency powers to achieve political ends.
They're not designed that way.
They were designed to say, we've been attacked by a foreign entity or we have a hurricane or tornado.
It's different than saying a trade deficit is an emergency.
(17:51):
So it's important for all Americans to know this.
This VOS Selections case is the most important case in separation of powers and emergency powers in my lifetime.
I'm 40.
It is the most important case in our lifetime.
And there will be a lot to say as the Supreme Court weighs in and they will absolutely take that case up and we will find out what an emergency really is.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Right.
I feel like at the end of the day there is a lot that is yet to come about this.
And same with, you know, our next topic here of elp.
Yeah, like that's another one that I feel is, you know, I broke that down on the show here a couple of times now and it's, it's.
(18:39):
There cannot be selective application of the rules.
Right.
Like, and I feel like that's kind of like the early things that are coming out about this is it's kind of following party lines which I had assumed that this is exactly what it would and I'd stated that on the show.
But I feel like at the end of the day this, I don't think this is going to be the thing that like all of a sudden fixes the industry either.
(19:04):
Like I, I just, I do not feel it's like in my heart of hearts that removing like even if they paused all work visas and removed the 60,000 non domicile CDLS from the market, like again we're talking less than 1% of the capacity on the road.
Yeah, like that doesn't move the needle.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
What I would to your point, to build off of this, we have enormously small barriers to enter.
To become a commercial driver, it is like a month of training.
You have to have a minimum of $750,000 of liability insurance which would cover someone in the hospital for three or four, maybe a week or two, maybe a little bit longer, depending on the nature of the severity of the injuries.
(19:45):
And you have driving a truck is the eighth most dangerous job in the country.
So is a dangerous job, but is underinsured.
And 20% of all vehicles on the road right now are unsafe at any speed, meaning that one in five would not meet the minimum threshold for safety on our roads.
And so ELP is interesting.
That has been the law 1930s.
It is not new.
(20:05):
It is not new.
The fact that it's an out of service aspect is new.
Ish.
But it is not new as a regulation.
And the thing you mentioned just a second ago about selective enforcement, that's actually a feature as opposed to a bug.
That's how prosecutors work generally is they have people they can choose to enforce things with and that's within their domain.
(20:25):
Now there's certain things you ought not to do.
But I think if we just look at this ELP mandate and saying we're Going to make sure people who on our roads can speak and communicate in English.
That's common sense safety.
That's common sense safety.
But I'd also say tire tread depth and having adequate brake lining and having working lights, those are also just as important as having a driver who knows how to operate the vehicle.
(20:49):
So we have a long way to go in this industry to actually make it safer and better.
But if the intention is right now on ELP and we're going to add resources to enforce it, which is the main thing here, if you don't add resources to enforce regulations, you will not get different outcomes.
So my hope is we have better enforcement of all of the regulations because that would remove capacity and ultimately make our road safer.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
No, I look at it also Matt, as is Like I think the more and more research I've done on this, like, again, I don't say the word shocked very often, but I was shocked that there are states out there that don't require you to show proper documentation to obtain a cdl I. E. The state of California was the one.
(21:34):
Right.
Like again, I've already broke this down.
We're not going to get into it on this show.
But like it's alarming that there are different states out there that allow like if you're going to be.
Because again, like I've stated, if you're going to come in with a non domiciled CDL work visa and you've done the right thing, no problem, no harm, no foul, you pass everything that I'm expected to adhere to as a business owner from the United States of America, I'm cool with that.
(21:58):
Right.
That's just the way that the system is.
But like again, if we go back and I, I think that the fmcsa, Sean Duffy and all of these guys, they need to start with the CDL schools and then furthermore they need to go to the dmv.
How are these guys allowed to even go through without proper documentation?
Like, that's the, that bothers me the most here.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Well, we need to continue to change the narrative that we for over two decades we've talked about a driver shortage.
And a driver shortage means we have to weaken the regulations to get on the road.
And if you believe this narrative that we have a deficiency in having adequate drivers, you will find ways to push them forward.
There has to be accountability.
And to your point, the truck driving schools is the place that you have to start and if they are not compliant, you have to get rid of them.
(22:46):
There is not a Driver shortage.
There is a shortage of qualified drivers that can do the work we need them to do.
But there is way too many schools pumping out people into this market, keeping wages low because our, your addiction to cheap and fast isn't going away.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's.
Yeah, dude, I, I look at it as there is a man.
It's, it's like I, I, a part of me madness is like, how are we even here, right?
Like how did we get here to where there are difference.
And again, I understand how the Constitution in the United States of America is structured, ladies and gentlemen.
(23:24):
Like, I get it.
But I also like when we're talking at the federal level like the fmcsa and if you look at a cdl, how are certain states able to skirt around that?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I mean, so to give analogy for the listeners and the viewers, think of the ELD mandate we mandated.
Every over the road truck had to have a government certified device that monitors how many hours you work.
They are self certified, meaning the FMCSA establishes a guideline and says you will have to fill out a form and then you get to be an ELD provider.
(24:01):
Over a thousand have been certified, self certified.
250 or more have been revoked.
Same with the schools.
They certified.
These are, these are not like they're, this is a deregulated industry.
They, we assume they know what they're doing.
Same with the states.
We assume you know what you're doing.
We, we have given them this latitude.
This is a, again a feature of our supply chain, not a bug in the old days in 1980s before deregulation.
(24:26):
Chris, it's a different world.
Like it's, it's a highly professionalized industry with people that are 80, 90% are union.
And it's all an apprenticeship.
It's a whole different can of worms today.
Our stuff is faster and cheaper.
Does it mean it's safer or better?
Not necessarily, but that's the cost you have to deal with.
So we ebb and flow back and forth.
(24:47):
How do you fix it?
My hope is that we put more resources to the FMCSA so they can go after these schools that are certifying drivers that aren't competent and then we can ultimately get safer roadways.
That's the only way this works.
If we just wring our hands and talk about, you know, ELP is the way to solve all these issues.
We're gonna be in the exact same place in a year from now and five years from now and ten years from now.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Dude.
And like I've said on the show, you know, numerous times, I'm like, Sean Duffy didn't cause this issue.
Pete Buttigieg did not cause this issue.
You can't blame.
It's like.
But at the end of the day, it's on the current administration to actually fix this.
We need to hold our elected officials accountable and hold them to these standards, like, as an industry.
(25:34):
Right.
Like, I know a lot of people celebrate when they see announcements being made, but like, they celebrate the announcement, then there's no follow up.
My big fear here is in six months from now, there's going to be nothing.
And then, or worse, in two years from now, we're going to be looking back and being like, what happened?
Why?
Why didn't this change?
Speaker 3 (25:55):
This is why I get so animated about vehicle maintenance.
Like, Hope Transport was a company that is horrifying accident.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
They had an out of service rate of 35%.
35.
And they were still moving freight in our country.
And I say to myself, if we had 20% of all drivers were unsafe or unqualified, we as a country would freak out.
We would freak out.
We're talking on the ELP side, like less than 1%.
But if we knew that 20% were unsafe, we would be appalled.
(26:24):
That is what the trucks and trailers are now.
They are that now.
And they've been that way for a long time.
And we act like, oh, it's just a tire.
It's just, it's just a mud flap.
Why do you care?
I care so much about that mud flap, Chris.
I really do.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
No, I know I, I look at it is as, you know, and again, like, this is more of like a life thing than not.
But it's like, man, if you start skimping in one area of your life and taking shortcuts in one area, it just bleeds in, like, it just forms a habit and then it bleeds into other areas out there.
And Matt, we'll get into this on another episode, man, I know you got a day job and you got to jump here, but like, dude, I, I just appreciate you coming on and bringing this information.
(27:02):
Right?
Because I feel like it's a.
We're in a very polarizing time right now in this country.
And it's not just the trucking issues that you see out there.
And this is why, like I say all the time, I'm never going to be the first to comment on some of these hot button issues because I want more information to come out because I take this job very seriously.
And People do come to this show for actual information.
(27:26):
So it's like, I don't want to be the first to talk about things.
I want to put the right information out there and.
And I know you share that same sentiment, Matt, and I appreciate you for that.
So how does anybody reach out to you to find out more about what you got going on?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Well, you can find me live at IANA, the Intermodal association of North America, on 371.3, the Transparency Network.
371.3.
Ask for it by name.
Otherwise, it's been great to see you, Chris.
I look forward to catch up with you in real life.
And I'll see you all over the place.
People can find me everywhere.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, man, you'll see me at iana, because that's where I'll be doing my show on the Tuesday the 16th.
I got a bunch of interviews lined up out there.
Your boy's gonna be rocking it out.
You'll see me in the signature orange, but that's going to be it.
Go ahead and jump, Matt.
I'm gonna close out the show later today.
Ladies and gentlemen, as always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
And if you're feeling really, really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify, you guys, because if you saw value, your network's gonna see it as well.
(28:24):
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Came back with a bank foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball Hey.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them hate them make a bigger balls.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
(00:45):
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
And I do say that before every single show.
What I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
(01:05):
Happy Monday, everybody.
I got a very special guest for you guys today.
I'm going to bring him up in a second, but my team always likes to remind me of this.
So I got to say this at the front of the episode as well.
If you get value in what you hear today and you're not subscribed, subscribe to the show, you guys.
And if you're feeling really ambitious after this one, we're which you will, I promise, rank the show on itunes and Spotify.
(01:25):
Because if you saw value, your network's going to see value as well.
Now, everybody's favorite topic, and ironically, everybody's favorite attorney is on this show.
But as I say, every time a lawyer comes on this show, we're going to be.
What we're going to be talking about today is not legal advice.
If you need an attorney, you need to call one because this guy is not your attorney.
But with that being said, I got my man Matt Leffler back on the show to break some stuff down.
(01:48):
Matt, what's going on, brother?
How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
What happens to freight transparency deferred?
Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun or fester like a sore and then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat or crust and sugar over like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags like a heavy load or does it explode?
Thank you for having me, Chris.
I'm happy to be back dude, were.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You in drama club in high school?
Like, I swear to God, you were like a poet and in a past life or something.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I was an actor.
I was a player in the fall, an actor in the winter and a track and field runner in the spring.
But yes, I was always busy.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Dude, it's, you know, we got a lot to talk about today and like, I always enjoy having actual attorneys come on the show who can, you know, critically break a lot of these topics down.
Because, you know, the gift and the cursed of social media is everybody has an opinion and sometimes people sound really convincing in their opinions out there.
(02:52):
But you know, I have a lot of opinions on stuff but that doesn't mean that it's like, you know, legal and could actually stand a chance in the court of law and all of that shit.
So, you know, I want to jump right in.
You know, it was timely that we had decided a while back for you to come on the show and then you just put out a post last week.
Is what is on everybody's favorite topic is broker transparency why freight brokers are stealing from everybody in the industry.
(03:17):
But what's some important updates on that?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Well, first and foremost, let me be very clear, we organize these things and the law kind of follows behind us.
Like they hear what we're going to do a podcast together.
Like, oh, let's make sure we get all the updates up for everybody.
So first and foremost, I'll also mention this.
No one makes money in transportation right now.
I mean this is not a time that brokers aren't making a ton.
Motorcares aren't making a ton.
But we are seeing some activity on this idea of broker transparency when brokers have to produce records of a broker transaction to motor carriers.
(03:49):
This is a modification or proposed rule on 371.3 and it's not a radio station.
It's actually federal code about brokers and what they're supposed to disclose.
But we had a notice of proposed rulemaking not terribly long ago.
Over 6,000 comments were filed.
The proposed rule was going to basically be two things.
(04:09):
One, you would have to produce the records of a broker transaction in 48 hours from a request and they had to be in an electronic format.
You had to send them by email or whatever that had another period of comments.
So more people commented once again.
And we learned last week that the FMCSA is not going to have a final rule.
(04:30):
So as opposed to making a final rule modifying the old one of 37 1.3, they are going to do another supplemental proposed rulemaking likely in May of 2026 which means everything that we thought about is on delay, deferred, nothing is changing and we'll find out more in May.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Do you think like does this open up?
Because like my biggest counter argument to 37 the non radio station out there is the.
I feel like when this law was written the broker and carrier relationship was vastly different, right?
Like carriers would actually hire freight brokerages to go out there and find freight on their behalf.
(05:12):
That's just not the way that the transaction works anymore.
And you know, because I'm out there, I find freight and then we go out, we develop carrier relationships based on the lanes that our customers want us to work.
And I truly in my heart of hearts feel that this is more aligned with a dispatch service in today's day and age than a what an actual freight broker does for the market and the transaction itself.
(05:38):
So my question to you Matt is does this open up the door where you know an organization, I'm not speaking on behalf of the tia, but the TIA would come in and be like hey, we need to really petition to change the verbiage of this because this not the way it is anymore.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, I think it's important to understand where we've been to understand where we're going.
And to your point, initially in the old days when brokers were growing in the industry, they were helping motor carriers find backhauls and they were connecting shippers with motor carriers.
That shipper would pay the motor carrier directly and the broker would have transparency to say hey how much were you paying?
(06:14):
Get a piece of that.
That is not how it works.
As you well kind of articulated, it's two transactions.
It's a broker and a shipper and then a motor carrier with that broker.
That's two different things happening.
I fundamentally believe the FMCSA does not have statutory authority to actually do transparency.
This is outside of their mandate.
They are not a regulator.
That's looking at private contracts between motor carriers and brokers.
(06:34):
That's not their a good use of their resources.
When 80% of motorcares have zero information on the FMCSA.
We have out of service rates that are bananas.
We have English language proficiency.
We'll get to a little bit.
They have bigger fish to fry.
So my belief, my hope is that we're going to fast forward into May and maybe FMCSA comes out and says hey, we realize this doesn't do anything.
(06:56):
No one's utilizing this today.
This is kind of outside of our expertise.
We'll see though.
I don't know where it's going to go.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Who does this fall under then, Matt?
Like what?
Like, because I feel like, you know, again, I try and be as fair and central on a lot of this stuff as possible, even being a freight broker, but there are drivers out there who want further clarification on this.
And then inevitably and again, you guys, I hate to break it to you, but like, this is just the way that the government works, right?
They're going to put another question session out there and then there's going to be another tweet sent out in another committee that's going to be formed.
(07:28):
All at the expense of our tax dollars, by the way.
But anyways, that's a topic for another show.
My fear is for those individuals out there who are like, no, I want to feel heard is that it's going to like they're not going to know who to go to and then it's going to be back to square one all over again.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, I think that what I caution anyone motor carrier broker, like if you are trying to grow and you think of growth and you say this is how the path I do that's ambition.
If you're looking at a path to grow and say the only reason I'm not is because this person is in my way, this is an obstacle.
You are finding someone else to hold accountable for your own failures.
And I'm going to be very clear here.
(08:05):
I think that what we're going to see in the proposed rule, if they go the direction of Aida and others, they're going to say the, that this disclosure is mandatory and it is something you cannot waive.
So right now every motor carry and every broker and contracts that are out there, this 371.3 live is still there, but they waive it.
(08:25):
They write a contract and they say I'm not going to ask for these records.
As a motor carrier, there is more pricing information at your fingertips today than there has ever been.
Whether it's DAT or truck stop or green screens and Triumph, like there's a highway.
There's a million ways to better understand how much you can charge for what you do.
And if you think that knowing how much the broker made from the shipper is the barrier to your growth, you might be mistaken.
(08:53):
The other piece that we haven't really talked about is the shippers don't want this information getting out.
Not necessarily the pricing information.
They don't want a bunch of back solicitation.
They work with intermediaries for a particular purpose.
So that's the kind of the path I see happening, Chris, is either you're going to go all in and say we need disclosure or to your other point, let Congress pass a law.
Congress can pass a law and say we need to, we want to make sure brokers are making sure they're disclosing things to motorcares.
(09:18):
I don't think they would, but it's where we're at right now.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I just honestly think that what you said earlier, Matt, is very true.
I think there's bigger fish to fry out there.
And again, I'm not discrediting anybody's feelings on if they think that they're getting screwed over.
But you know, again, I just want people to just think critically for a second.
Look at the verbiage inside of the non radio station, read it carefully and ask yourself, when was the last time you specifically hired a freight broker to find freight on your behalf?
(09:53):
Ask yourself that question and then if the answer is never, you should ask yourself, who am I hiring to find freight on my behalf?
Are they not associated with my company?
And, and then are they showing what we are getting paid on this load or are they changing those numbers?
Right.
Like again, I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but like that's where I would want to start.
(10:15):
Because again, as a freight broker, no carrier is calling me and saying, hey Chris, I need you to find freight for me on my behalf out there.
All right?
We love working with the same carriers time and time again, but we are going to them 100 times out of 100.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
And when I go to Target and I buy a bluey shirt for my daughter and I, I start screaming about how much did Target pay for this bluey shirt?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Rein that in.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Because I'm not gonna buy unless I know exactly how much Target bought.
It's a preposterous idea.
It's a preposterous idea.
But really what I get back to, there's no reason a motor carrier can't just ask a broker and say, hey, how much did you get paid here?
Maybe they tell you, maybe they don't.
But to have the federal government come in and say this is what two businesses are going to agree to and we're going to jump in and look at every single one of them.
(11:05):
You do not want to go back to a regulated industry, folks.
You don't want that.
It will mean a lot more compliance, a lot more Problems because when you grow government you typically grow problems and we don't need those.
If you don't like working with that broker or you don't know what it costs to operate your vehicle safely and deliver freight on time and undamaged, then you're probably in the wrong business.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I, I'm right there with you.
I don't, I don't think more government is ever the answer for like literally anything I would highly caution to get like somehow it's going to cost us more.
Like my.
Every time I think of that.
Matt, have you ever seen that meme where it's like you see rockets being shot in one direction and then rockets being shot in another and it said my tax dollars one side and then somehow also my tax dollars.
(11:51):
That's how I feel like this is all going to boil down.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
It's just going to be another waste of it.
And you know I, I also look at it as is, you know, if you look at the overall freight market that's out there, you look at the largest publicly traded companies that are inside of the transportation industry.
All of this stuff is listed out there.
And again I'm not calling on C.H.
robinson here at all but they are by revenue the largest provider in the industry.
(12:18):
They have touched every organization that ships freight.
In my opinion right could be wrong on that.
But if you want a really, really good guess on where the market is they have the most data and it's free.
You can go look at their 10k or you know our mutual friend Ken here who says he needs Mr. Adamo up in Animo.
(12:40):
Ken posts out stuff all the time on LinkedIn that because dat very large organization.
Lots and lots.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I've heard of them.
I've heard of them.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah small just couple transactions information to.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Build off of just Ken in general and how you grow freight rates because at the end of the day this is what the argument is about for motorcare is asking.
I don't think I'm getting a fair shake.
I think I'm not getting as much as I deserve.
You should want is better enforcement of the existing regulations.
So let me pull the curtain behind the wall and show you guys what actually drives rates up either.
(13:14):
There's increased demand from consumers buying things and unfortunately the American consumers not doing so hot.
They're not buying a bunch of stuff.
The other way is you reduce the capacity the actual motor cures and you do that by enforcing the existing regulations which will transition Chris to our conversation of English language proficiency.
But much More broadly on vehicle maintenance and all the things that are required to deliver things safely on time and undamaged enforcing regulations, I guarantee you will see rates go up over time.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, it's, we're at a very interesting time with a lot of it, you know, because there's a lot of talk out there.
You know, you like, you hear, you know, tariffs for example, there's a large crowd out there who are anti terrorists and everything else.
And again like I get it and if you look at it in the short term, like yeah, it can and has kind of caused a little bit of a mess out there.
(14:11):
But long term I'm always going to be pro America, re industrialize America and bring all of that stuff back here.
But it's not going to happen overnight.
And you know, I think like there's a lot kind of riding on that has caused, you know, again I've been very critical of the current administration on the flip flopping aspect of things.
I truly feel like that has caused an extended stagnation in the market because a lot of people who import goods at the end of the day, why buy today at 20 when somebody could wake up and be in a better mood and drop it to 10 tomorrow or you know, worse, they get pissed off and then they fucking raise it to 130%.
(14:50):
Right.
Like I feel like it's highly irresponsible from that regard.
We need stability to come from that to I think like quell people's emotions about wanting to buy more inventory.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
What we are seeing on the tariff piece and I'll kind of take a brief aside to folks kind of understand where we are in this thing right now.
So there was a case called VOS Selections, it's an importer in New York.
They sued the Trump administration in the Court of International Trade.
It's a, it's a U S based court.
They won there, said the tariffs were illegal.
They appealed to the Federal Circuit Court, they won there as well.
(15:22):
Trump lost there at that point.
But those tariffs remain in place up through Probably, I think October 14th or 15th depending on whether the US Supreme Court weighs in.
You generally do not want to make foreign trade and foreign policy based on emergency declarations like it is.
That's exactly why we see this trepidation from investors and from the market generally.
(15:43):
If you're an American manufacturer and you're contemplating bringing things closer to home and you see that the only reason is because someone declared an emergency, meaning that the next president can Declare a different emergency.
You're not going to invest your capital because there's so much uncertainty.
If, if you love tariffs, Congress should pass those things, President should sign those things, then that's the law.
(16:06):
If you're just operating off of emergency powers you were setting up, you're building a foundation on sand.
And it will not fail.
It will absolutely fail if you build on sand in that Mormon.
I, I worry about it.
I worry about it.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
No, I, I do, too.
Right at the end of the day.
And again, I am not sitting here and saying that I, I am 1000% pro America.
I america first and everything.
And I know it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
I'm with you, man.
I'm American.
I want America to do well.
I do.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
But I feel like it's becoming a lot more messy than I think I anticipated out that day.
I never thought that there wasn't going to be any pushback towards it.
But I, I also look at it as is.
Like, I want, I think, I don't care what political party you're a part of.
I want you to follow the law of the land and the Constitution and everything.
(16:51):
I don't want you.
And again, we're not here to argue about who abuses powers more.
Because, like, we could go on a four hour.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Okay, so let me.
I want to build off that, though, because this is the part I think people forget.
This is what I might talk about, I. E. By the International Emergency Economic Powers act of 1977, signed by Jimmy Carter, overriding the Trading with the Enemies Act.
What is important to remember is these powers stay with the office.
They do not leave when the person in office goes.
And so if you look at what's happening and think what would happen if my biggest political adversary think it's aoc, runs for president, and she says, day one, we have an emergency on greenhouse gases.
(17:28):
Every internal combustion engine, every component has a 5,000% tariff.
Could we stop it?
Could you stop it?
This is why we have to be very careful about using emergency powers to achieve political ends.
They're not designed that way.
They were designed to say, we've been attacked by a foreign entity or we have a hurricane or tornado.
It's different than saying a trade deficit is an emergency.
(17:51):
So it's important for all Americans to know this.
This VOS Selections case is the most important case in separation of powers and emergency powers in my lifetime.
I'm 40.
It is the most important case in our lifetime.
And there will be a lot to say as the Supreme Court weighs in and they will absolutely take that case up and we will find out what an emergency really is.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Right.
I feel like at the end of the day there is a lot that is yet to come about this.
And same with, you know, our next topic here of elp.
Yeah, like that's another one that I feel is, you know, I broke that down on the show here a couple of times now and it's, it's.
(18:39):
There cannot be selective application of the rules.
Right.
Like, and I feel like that's kind of like the early things that are coming out about this is it's kind of following party lines which I had assumed that this is exactly what it would and I'd stated that on the show.
But I feel like at the end of the day this, I don't think this is going to be the thing that like all of a sudden fixes the industry either.
(19:04):
Like I, I just, I do not feel it's like in my heart of hearts that removing like even if they paused all work visas and removed the 60,000 non domicile CDLS from the market, like again we're talking less than 1% of the capacity on the road.
Yeah, like that doesn't move the needle.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
What I would to your point, to build off of this, we have enormously small barriers to enter.
To become a commercial driver, it is like a month of training.
You have to have a minimum of $750,000 of liability insurance which would cover someone in the hospital for three or four, maybe a week or two, maybe a little bit longer, depending on the nature of the severity of the injuries.
(19:45):
And you have driving a truck is the eighth most dangerous job in the country.
So is a dangerous job, but is underinsured.
And 20% of all vehicles on the road right now are unsafe at any speed, meaning that one in five would not meet the minimum threshold for safety on our roads.
And so ELP is interesting.
That has been the law 1930s.
It is not new.
(20:05):
It is not new.
The fact that it's an out of service aspect is new.
Ish.
But it is not new as a regulation.
And the thing you mentioned just a second ago about selective enforcement, that's actually a feature as opposed to a bug.
That's how prosecutors work generally is they have people they can choose to enforce things with and that's within their domain.
(20:25):
Now there's certain things you ought not to do.
But I think if we just look at this ELP mandate and saying we're Going to make sure people who on our roads can speak and communicate in English.
That's common sense safety.
That's common sense safety.
But I'd also say tire tread depth and having adequate brake lining and having working lights, those are also just as important as having a driver who knows how to operate the vehicle.
(20:49):
So we have a long way to go in this industry to actually make it safer and better.
But if the intention is right now on ELP and we're going to add resources to enforce it, which is the main thing here, if you don't add resources to enforce regulations, you will not get different outcomes.
So my hope is we have better enforcement of all of the regulations because that would remove capacity and ultimately make our road safer.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
No, I look at it also Matt, as is Like I think the more and more research I've done on this, like, again, I don't say the word shocked very often, but I was shocked that there are states out there that don't require you to show proper documentation to obtain a cdl I. E. The state of California was the one.
(21:34):
Right.
Like again, I've already broke this down.
We're not going to get into it on this show.
But like it's alarming that there are different states out there that allow like if you're going to be.
Because again, like I've stated, if you're going to come in with a non domiciled CDL work visa and you've done the right thing, no problem, no harm, no foul, you pass everything that I'm expected to adhere to as a business owner from the United States of America, I'm cool with that.
(21:58):
Right.
That's just the way that the system is.
But like again, if we go back and I, I think that the fmcsa, Sean Duffy and all of these guys, they need to start with the CDL schools and then furthermore they need to go to the dmv.
How are these guys allowed to even go through without proper documentation?
Like, that's the, that bothers me the most here.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Well, we need to continue to change the narrative that we for over two decades we've talked about a driver shortage.
And a driver shortage means we have to weaken the regulations to get on the road.
And if you believe this narrative that we have a deficiency in having adequate drivers, you will find ways to push them forward.
There has to be accountability.
And to your point, the truck driving schools is the place that you have to start and if they are not compliant, you have to get rid of them.
(22:46):
There is not a Driver shortage.
There is a shortage of qualified drivers that can do the work we need them to do.
But there is way too many schools pumping out people into this market, keeping wages low because our, your addiction to cheap and fast isn't going away.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It's.
Yeah, dude, I, I look at it as there is a man.
It's, it's like I, I, a part of me madness is like, how are we even here, right?
Like how did we get here to where there are difference.
And again, I understand how the Constitution in the United States of America is structured, ladies and gentlemen.
(23:24):
Like, I get it.
But I also like when we're talking at the federal level like the fmcsa and if you look at a cdl, how are certain states able to skirt around that?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I mean, so to give analogy for the listeners and the viewers, think of the ELD mandate we mandated.
Every over the road truck had to have a government certified device that monitors how many hours you work.
They are self certified, meaning the FMCSA establishes a guideline and says you will have to fill out a form and then you get to be an ELD provider.
(24:01):
Over a thousand have been certified, self certified.
250 or more have been revoked.
Same with the schools.
They certified.
These are, these are not like they're, this is a deregulated industry.
They, we assume they know what they're doing.
Same with the states.
We assume you know what you're doing.
We, we have given them this latitude.
This is a, again a feature of our supply chain, not a bug in the old days in 1980s before deregulation.
(24:26):
Chris, it's a different world.
Like it's, it's a highly professionalized industry with people that are 80, 90% are union.
And it's all an apprenticeship.
It's a whole different can of worms today.
Our stuff is faster and cheaper.
Does it mean it's safer or better?
Not necessarily, but that's the cost you have to deal with.
So we ebb and flow back and forth.
(24:47):
How do you fix it?
My hope is that we put more resources to the FMCSA so they can go after these schools that are certifying drivers that aren't competent and then we can ultimately get safer roadways.
That's the only way this works.
If we just wring our hands and talk about, you know, ELP is the way to solve all these issues.
We're gonna be in the exact same place in a year from now and five years from now and ten years from now.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Dude.
And like I've said on the show, you know, numerous times, I'm like, Sean Duffy didn't cause this issue.
Pete Buttigieg did not cause this issue.
You can't blame.
It's like.
But at the end of the day, it's on the current administration to actually fix this.
We need to hold our elected officials accountable and hold them to these standards, like, as an industry.
(25:34):
Right.
Like, I know a lot of people celebrate when they see announcements being made, but like, they celebrate the announcement, then there's no follow up.
My big fear here is in six months from now, there's going to be nothing.
And then, or worse, in two years from now, we're going to be looking back and being like, what happened?
Why?
Why didn't this change?
Speaker 3 (25:55):
This is why I get so animated about vehicle maintenance.
Like, Hope Transport was a company that is horrifying accident.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
They had an out of service rate of 35%.
35.
And they were still moving freight in our country.
And I say to myself, if we had 20% of all drivers were unsafe or unqualified, we as a country would freak out.
We would freak out.
We're talking on the ELP side, like less than 1%.
But if we knew that 20% were unsafe, we would be appalled.
(26:24):
That is what the trucks and trailers are now.
They are that now.
And they've been that way for a long time.
And we act like, oh, it's just a tire.
It's just, it's just a mud flap.
Why do you care?
I care so much about that mud flap, Chris.
I really do.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
No, I know I, I look at it is as, you know, and again, like, this is more of like a life thing than not.
But it's like, man, if you start skimping in one area of your life and taking shortcuts in one area, it just bleeds in, like, it just forms a habit and then it bleeds into other areas out there.
And Matt, we'll get into this on another episode, man, I know you got a day job and you got to jump here, but like, dude, I, I just appreciate you coming on and bringing this information.
(27:02):
Right?
Because I feel like it's a.
We're in a very polarizing time right now in this country.
And it's not just the trucking issues that you see out there.
And this is why, like I say all the time, I'm never going to be the first to comment on some of these hot button issues because I want more information to come out because I take this job very seriously.
And People do come to this show for actual information.
(27:26):
So it's like, I don't want to be the first to talk about things.
I want to put the right information out there and.
And I know you share that same sentiment, Matt, and I appreciate you for that.
So how does anybody reach out to you to find out more about what you got going on?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Well, you can find me live at IANA, the Intermodal association of North America, on 371.3, the Transparency Network.
371.3.
Ask for it by name.
Otherwise, it's been great to see you, Chris.
I look forward to catch up with you in real life.
And I'll see you all over the place.
People can find me everywhere.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, man, you'll see me at iana, because that's where I'll be doing my show on the Tuesday the 16th.
I got a bunch of interviews lined up out there.
Your boy's gonna be rocking it out.
You'll see me in the signature orange, but that's going to be it.
Go ahead and jump, Matt.
I'm gonna close out the show later today.
Ladies and gentlemen, as always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
And if you're feeling really, really ambitious after this one, rank the show on itunes and Spotify, you guys, because if you saw value, your network's gonna see it as well.
(28:24):
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Came back with a bank foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball Hey.
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