September 12, 2025 • 35 mins
How much stronger would small carriers be if cash flow were no longer their biggest struggle? I’m excited to bring two Seans on the show, Denim’s Sean Smith and Truckstop’s Sean Dehan!
In this episode, we talk about Truckstop’s acquisition of Denim and why this strategic decision is a game-changer for the transportation industry. Plus, we cover how the integration of 20+ years of factoring expertise with cutting-edge fintech is transforming payments from a manual, holiday-delayed process into a 24/7/365 automated system that delivers cash in under a minute!
From reducing invoice inquiries and errors to tripling Denim’s volume by tapping into Truck Stop’s customer base, this acquisition isn’t just about factoring—it’s about unlocking distribution, boosting operational efficiency, and giving carriers and brokers the speed, transparency, and flexibility they need to survive in today’s market!
About Sean Smith and Sean Dehan
Sean Smith, VP of Product at Denim, has spent 10 years building and scaling products in the financial services and logistics industries. While leading Product at Denim, he has pioneered new capabilities for the factoring space including risk automation and pricing. Sean has also led work on our client dashboard, job management and collaboration that have revolutionized the process and workflow for broker clients looking to save time on back office operations. He excels at combining his passion for technology with the ability to drive impact on a balance sheet.
Sean Dehan is the VP of Corporate Strategy at Truckstop and one of the most trusted load boards in freight for almost 30 years.
Sean is an expert in carrier success, freight fraud prevention, and industry trends. With fraud on the rise and market conditions constantly shifting, he offers a grounded, insightful view of what’s happening behind the scenes — and how brokers and carriers alike can stay ahead.
Connect with Sean Smith
- Website: https://www.denim.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smithseanp/
- Twitter (X): https://x.com/smithseanp
Connect with Sean Dehan
- Website: https://truckstop.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dehansean/
📊📉 Don’t miss out on the latest market trends by subscribing to your TOP Transportation Morning Show! 🌎
🎬🎯 #TheFreightCoach Morning Show is LIVE every weekday at 10:30 AM CST to break down transportation industry headlines! Mark your calendars!
🤝 Shoutout to my sponsors!👇
- Denim | https://info.denim.com/chrisjolly
- SPI Logistics | https://spi3pl.com/
- Revenova | https://revenova.com/freightcoach/
- NMFTA | https://nmfta.org/
Help Sgt. Murphy's Kids Soar: A Fallen Hero: https://www.gofundme.
🚀🔥 To sign up for my Newsletter, go to http://eepurl.com/iNoHco, get in touch with me through the social media channels below, and subscribe to my YouTube Channel!👇
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjrL70IEnCfDkNaiYMar3jw
📷 https://www.instagram.com/thefreightcoach/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger boss.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
A what is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
(00:47):
And I do say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Happy Friday, everybody.
I got a very special show for you guys here today.
(01:08):
We're going to be talking a lot about freight tech.
What my friends over at Denim just kind of recently went through with my friends over a truck stop.
And I, I, I, I'm trying to think of a creative way to say this, but we got two Sean's on the show.
Both of them are going to enter.
Only one of them is going to last.
So I have Mr. Sean Dehan and my man, Sean Product.
Sean, sorry I had to go there.
Throw that in now with Truck Stop, dude.
(01:31):
Thank you guys both so much for joining me here today.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Hey, man, great to see you.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It's always a pleasure.
Chris.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I like how you the only Sean waited for production to step in there and say it first.
It was only.
He's just, he's just standing back there, like, speak you, Sean.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
He can see me, like, jumping out of my chair.
He's like, I'll just let him go.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, man.
So no, thank you guys both for joining.
And you know, it's been quite a, the past couple of, you know, weeks here for you guys all with, you know, a lot of exciting announcements coming out.
And you know, I just, you know, like, when I saw the original post, like, I mean, I reached out to pretty much the whole team at Denim, you know, shot B and email because it's like Just knowing, going from like starting something and experiencing that myself.
(02:21):
Right.
Like when you just start with an idea and see it roll up into fruition and become successful and then, you know, go with where you guys have like, it's just amazing.
So, like, kind of like what brought this together from the beginning?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Like from Truck Stop's perspective, what was it about like that Denim was doing?
We're like, we want to be a part of this.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, totally.
So Truckstop has been in the financial services factoring game for a long time, since the early mid 2000s really.
And it's been a core element of our product offering to our customers, mostly to our small carriers.
(03:05):
And I think as the market has matured and there are more and more carriers, the market's bigger and bigger.
There's been more investment in this space.
And there have been a few companies in particular, like Denim, that have started and built a sort of technology first factoring and financial services and payments businesses.
(03:28):
And we knew that to deliver our customers what we wanted to deliver them, which was exceptional service, fast payments and a reliable product, we needed to be technology first.
And we looked out on the horizon and we looked at the companies that really invested heavily into technology.
(03:53):
And the Denim team has just done an exceptional job from start to finish building a product, building technology and building a business that's really important too.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
It's oftentimes very hard in M and A to just build by technology that doesn't have a business tied to.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
Makes.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
The analysis very challenging, makes the underwriting really hard.
But business.
But Denim and the Denim team has built an incredible business as well.
It's also expanded our ability to serve our customers in a unique way.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Today we're effectively a non recourse factoring business.
We've added recourse factoring, we've added a large broker book of business to obviously, Chris, as a network, we serve small carriers, fleet carriers and brokers today in our marketplace business and many of our other products.
But in our financial services business, we didn't serve brokers.
(04:42):
So we've added that ability to serve brokers as well today.
So, you know, the combination of great team, great technology, great product and expansion of what we can offer and incredibly like much better service.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
We're going to be delivering incredible service.
75% of payments are done in less than process in less than one minute.
That's just exceptional.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
If you're, if you're out on the road and you're in a bind as an owner operator, we can solve that problem very quickly for you.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
You can go from no cash to cash in minutes.
Where most of our competitors, most of the other companies in the space and Truck Stop itself couldn't have done that before denim.
And so we're taking technology that denim hasn't had the ability to bring to the owner operator effectively because distributing the owner operator is very hard.
And we're taking that technology and we're unlocking it into a huge part of the market.
(05:29):
And I think that's helping.
When we talked to Bea and Sean, the other Sean is not on this call right now.
Sean vo about.
About denim.
That was one of the huge value props to them was that were going to take the technology they built, they spent so much time building the business they built.
We were going to be able to take it and give it to a larger part of the market and have a larger impact for what their team has worked so hard on.
(05:49):
And so that was kind of the combination story.
And it's been exciting.
The team executes super fast.
Sean was giving me heck yesterday because I said I was going to give you like a quarter to finish that thing.
He's like, I finished it last week.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Come on.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And so the team moves incredibly fast and we're all having to calibrate to their speed.
And it's been fun.
It's been fun catching that.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
No, I love that.
And you know, speeds everything, right?
It's, it's, you know, in this industry, speed will kill all deals and stuff like that.
And you know, that's one thing again, I'm not speaking for denim or Sean or anything like this, but like throughout the years of us working together and stuff like that, like, that's been such their core focus.
(06:34):
Like, I remember the first time I was invited to speak at Denham's team like retreat back here in Phoenix like three years ago.
And they were so passionate about it.
And B was so passionate about like, no, we want to bring technology out or we want to make this as seamless as possible.
We want to make this financial side of this business as easily accessible for everybody.
(06:58):
And we have the technology to make that happen.
And then, you know, Sean and I have had our monthly financial Friday show for like a year where him and I would just go in and we would do those best practices out there for business owners and, you know, understanding cash flow.
And as somebody who, you know, I've been self employed now for five years.
And I don't know everything, but that's one thing that is at was at like the top of my mind.
(07:21):
It took me a couple of years to fully grasp it of like no, I need to fully understand my P and L. I need to fully be able to balance my cash flow.
How do I make my money actually work for me as opposed to going out there and you know, maybe taking out like a, a rolling capital line of credit from the bank and then that cost me interest.
It's like how do I leverage all of this stuff to, for the stuff that I'm already paying for to help it use my business and expand it out.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Here's the thing too.
We can add this to our next financial Friday.
But like partnerships start early, right?
Like we've been in the truck stop marketplace dehand for more than two years or something.
Like we started out with like sort of a light referral relationship.
We've gotten to know the truck stop folks for quite a long time and like just kind of continuing to nurture that relationship.
(08:09):
And the timing for us was really good that like Sean and team were super interested in making a play in the space and the combination just made a ton of sense because we like there's a lot of moving and shaking happening in factoring right now and in freight tech like across the board and having a business like Truck Stop that has such a valuable asset in the load board and the truck stop ecosystem and sort of everything in between.
(08:36):
It was like a, it was a no brainer for us to be like oh wow, this is going to be a huge opportunity for us.
Like we'll like we'll almost triple the size of our volume in the next 90 days, right?
In bringing on all of the truck stop factoring volumes.
It's going to be huge for us.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
What's the, you know, from your guys's perspective now?
Obviously cash flow is king for 95 plus percent of the market, right?
Because if you're looking at it just strictly from the carrier numbers out there, 95% of the trucks on the road are 20 truck or less operations.
Like I actually just did the research on this for one of those shows this week that I had done and like, and then if you think about it that's almost completely applicable on the broker side of the industry as well.
(09:21):
95% of the market is that what would people would be considered a smaller business in scale.
And you know, for me it's like having financial, having a Strong financial understanding, I think is probably what kills most businesses.
Or not having a strong financial understanding, excuse me, is probably what kills more businesses than not because the data is out there in regards to small business.
(09:44):
Most small businesses are 30 days away from going out of business every single month.
If they have one late payment come in and then they miss a payment for one of their vendors, like they could like legitimately lose their business.
It's that razor thin out there.
And then if you look at a capital intensive business that is trucking, you know, like Dehan you were talking about there, like if one of your drivers is out on the road and they need access to capital and stuff like that, and that resource might not have been there like that just like legitimately strengthens your guys's user base at such a level now.
(10:16):
And it is changing the game, right?
Because again, speed's everything.
The last thing a driver wants to deal with is a lack of capital on the side of the road when they're like, they don't know how they're going to get their truck fixed and stuff like that.
And then, you know, again, I'll just say it as a business owner, those thoughts have going through your head is like, is this it?
Is this the death blow?
Is this what was going to put my dream away for good?
(10:37):
So it's like I look at it as this is an opportunity and this is what I'm the most excited about in freight tech is that again, it's that speed aspect of it, right?
Like knowing that you have that one stop that you can go to in the event that you need something is like, it's such a breath of fresh air for most business owners that they won't realize it until they're in that situation.
(11:01):
Right.
Like I would love to sit here and what do they call it on the campaign?
Rainbow land or whatever.
And you'd be like, oh, nothing's ever going to go wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Rainbows and unicorns.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, yeah, unicorns, exactly.
But it's like you don't think about this stuff until you need it.
And then when you know that you have an organization that you can turn to in that moment that's going to save so many people's businesses that unfortunately they're not going to know about until they're in that situation.
But it's such a massive value add out there.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
100%.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think, look, the speed.
So I'll take a couple of those points.
Like one speed, I think it was like, Jeff, bezos at some point in time said something along the lines of, it's effectively a one way door.
The more and more we deliver value to our customers in terms of speed of which we can deliver them like a package.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
The.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
There's no going back from that.
No one will ever settle for less once they receive a package with.
I mean, I'm giving packages in some crazy amounts of time now.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Like it is absurdity.
When I order something, I can get it in like six hours at my house.
Some random thing that you would never expect them to have inventory on.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Getting your cash fast is the same way.
Once you experience the speed at which you can and get your cash from an invoice, you're never going back.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And the pace at which people like Denim and others have invested in financial technology to establish the system, the processes and the rails to pay customers in minutes.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Auto verify, pay them 247 and within minutes.
So that you're in that bind.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
You've got that scenario where you're at the late at night on Labor Day and, and no one's out there.
No one's, no one's answering any phone calls on Labor Day.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Everybody's off.
And, but you need cash to pay for fuel so you can get back home or you can go wherever you need to get.
I, I actually reached out to Sean Vo on the day after Labor Day.
I said, hey man, how many payments do we make on.
On Labor Day?
And because the year before, we made a total of zero payments on Labor Day.
Yeah.
(13:16):
And went from making zero payments to hundreds of payments on Labor Day.
And it's simply because now we have the technology that enables us to make payments when our customers need them.
Guess what?
Our customers work on Labor Day.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
It's not takeoff day for them, it's work on Labor Day for a lot of them.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
And so this is the type of thing that enables us to move the industry forward and help our customers stay in business in a lot of cases.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Reduce the stress of being in the business, increase their health.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Improve their health because their stress levels are lower.
And that's part of our vision at Truck Stop.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
All we really want to do at Truck Stop is really simple.
We want to build the tools and the products that our customers need and we want to integrate them so that each one gets better because it's part of the other.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
And so buying denim, bringing denim into the Truck Stop family, improved how we factor for our customers, improved how we paid them.
But it's also going to improve how we integrate that solution and those services into the rest of our ecosystem.
So now our customers are going to benefit from the data that we have in our factoring business to how we match our freight and how we manage the risk of our portfolio is going to benefited from all the other data points that we have in our system and how we underwrite our customers and what types of credit we give them, how many people we can pay them out on, how all these things just get better because we put the system together and Denim's technology and Denim's product and their team enable us to plug that in ways that weren't able to before.
(14:47):
So, you know, you're right.
Speed matters a ton.
And you know, usually there's two things that kill people, kill businesses.
The first is no customers, and the second is no cash flow.
You can have customers and not have cash flow.
And that's really problematic, particularly in a business like freight.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
And so we're here to help you with that cash flow problem and we're also here to help you with that customer problem, particularly if you are a carrier.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
And that's why, you know, it works so well together.
Peanut butter and jelly.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, it's.
It is a massive issue out there.
You know, as somebody who's been in that situation before where, you know, you have customers, you have revenue, but that's pretty.
It sucks when they don't pay you.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or they're delayed in their payments or, you know, and especially when you're just getting started out.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Like, I think that there's such a fallacy out there.
You guys about like, oh, you started a business, you instantly have multi six figures in the bank.
Everything's fine, you'll be good, you can weather everything and oh, all business is good business.
Like, don't worry about it.
That is so far from the truth.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like, I want to say that everybody has the best intentions out there, but like, the reality is I got data that proves the, the opposite of that.
Right.
Not everybody does and things happen.
But like, again, even if, you know, there's a slow play or, you know, you brought up a holiday weekend, for example, say your customer paid you on a Friday, well, that.
The Friday before, well, guess what?
That money doesn't hit your bank account until Tuesday or whatever that looks like, and something happens.
(16:11):
So again, it's like you have to have these contingency plans in place.
But then like, that is where I think freight tech is.
And like the Bar has been set now where it's like, you have to have instant results for this stuff, right?
Like, there is no more.
You know, like, Sean Dehan, you said they're like, oh, we're not on, but our customers are on.
Like, there is no more of that, I think.
And that's where technology steps up and gives you that 24, 7, 365 presence.
(16:36):
And that's essentially what Denim's been preaching since day one, right?
Like, hey, we're here.
We're here around the clock for you guys.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, I. I think the cool thing, too, Chris, especially, is that the Truck Stop brand is.
Is super powerful in.
So as a carrier, if you're collecting on an invoice and you are Joe's Trucking, and you're Joe alone, you carry a lot less weight.
When that invoice comes due, then truckstop.com on the.
On the invoice that they're sending on behalf of their carriers.
(17:05):
So, like, use your partnerships, right?
Like, if you have somebody with such a. I mean, it's gonna be great for us too, for sure.
Right.
To.
To have kind of Truck Stop behind us, in addition to all the other benefits of just, like, you know, better cost of capital, better access to customers, more credit lines that we can offer.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
There's a ton of optionality that we can provide carriers and brokers that work through kind of the flywheel between Truck Stop and denim and back to Truck stop and around again.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So, like, where.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
No, I was gonna ask Sean, what's the average DSO right now?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So you all are at 23 days, but the average for the industry is up in the 40s.
I think it's 41 or 42.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
So it's like, you know, you're talking about people waiting more than a month, Chris, on average, for payment.
I'm sure your experience, you experience that.
And we've got shippers that pay even on longer terms than way longer term.
That's an average.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Right.
And.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Waiting 42 days to get paid for most people at a small size.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
If you're a small fleet or a relatively small broker, you know, under 10 million, 15 million doll gross revenue.
That's a long time.
In 42 days, you could have three payrolls.
Yeah, like three payrolls in 42 days, depending on how the calendar.
Calendar spits.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
So it's like, there's a lot to consider there.
And.
And that.
That's incredibly challenging to be working with.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
42 days, three payrolls, or two truck payments.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Right.
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah.
No, and that's exactly it.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
And that's what, you know, again.
And you know, product.
Sean, you brought up a really good point there.
When you're just Joe's Trucking or Tim's Trucking or whatever that looks like out there, you don't have the buying power or like the sway, you know, it's like you're just at one truck operation.
And especially if you're just out there really getting started and trying to build your dreams, right?
(19:06):
Like you're trying to put away money.
Like, I, you know, again, I can't speak for everybody, but I don't know a ton of people who are just like, no, I hope I start this business and everything flames out and I get end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and potentially bankrupt, right?
Like, I don't know of anybody who.
That's their initial thought.
Yeah, but it's like, you know, I, I look at it is like, you know, having that and then again, like, what is the most, like, the most cost effective way to get access to that capital, right?
(19:31):
Because again, if you have a line of credit at a bank, what's the interest rate on that, right?
Like, what are they charging you to get that?
Or what does it look like to get paid faster through factoring?
And like, you have to weigh out all of those options.
And then again, like getting.
And then how fast can you get that capital, right?
Like if you're utilizing somebody and they're like, oh yeah, we approve it on a Friday.
And then, you know, if they don't process it in time, is it still Tuesday before you get it?
(19:55):
And what if your truck payments due on Monday or whatever that looks like, right?
Like, these are very real stresses that a lot of people come up with, you know, on a monthly basis.
So it's like this speed is everything.
And like, truly, I feel like that's got to be like the message out there, you guys is fast, right?
Like, we get your money, we get you paid quick on top of that.
So like, with what do you think that this is going to change the game here kind of moving forward with Freight Tech, you know, and especially with a company like Truck Stop who's got multiple service offerings out there, right?
(20:26):
Does this force you guys, Sean Dehan, excuse me.
To like, start looking at some of your other products and like, hey, how can we speed this up, right?
Like, how do we get.
How do we get faster?
How do we level this all up across the board?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, everything's got to be Faster, right?
And everything's got a.
Speed is a way of delivering service and transparency.
I mean, were just talking yesterday, I think about a customer we're working with right now bringing over to the denim platform that's super stoked about coming to denim.
And Chris, it's for a really simple reason.
(21:00):
They can actually see everything happening, right?
They know exactly where their invoice is.
They know exactly what problems the invoice has.
They know exactly how to resolve the problems.
They know where to resolve the problems.
They know when they resolve the problems, how quickly they're going to get paid at their other provider.
They don't have any visibility.
They have to call in every single time they want to talk about invoice.
If they work through with someone every time they want to talk to an invoice, they're probably talking to someone in the Philippines when they talk to someone.
(21:22):
Not, not the paid on the Philippines or anything like that, but they're probably not talking to someone in the US when they do it either.
And what we're talking about here is changing the experience level layer, right?
The whole experience layer is changing.
And what denim was doing was phenomenal, but what denim was doing was at a scale that wasn't impacting the whole industry, right?
(21:44):
And when you're, when you're doing a denim and you're still small and you don't have distribution, you can impact a few customers and you probably will impact a number of customers over your lifetime.
But until you get distribution, you're not going to change the industry, right?
And what we have the opportunity now is to distribute this experience.
And there's, it's a one way door, right?
(22:05):
There's only one way forward after we distribute this experience.
Once customers touch this experience, there's only one way they're going to, they're gonna look, they're not going back to another way just because the rate is 10 bits lower or 20bps lower, they're going to demand that it's 10 bits lower.
And I get the same experience, right?
And so we're really excited about that.
And to your point, Chris, you're going to see this type of mentality and everything that we do, right?
(22:29):
How do we help our customers find freight faster?
How do we help our customers find trucks faster?
How do we help them find the right truck?
Everything's going to come with speed because what our customers need in today's market, particularly in today's market, is speed.
Speed matters a ton and I was going to kind of add.
You know, were working with a partner, a really large industry organization that, you know the name of.
(22:52):
And they were telling us that historically they.
They've never recommended factoring to their customers and.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
But they're.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Or their membership and their.
But their members are getting younger.
And the younger generation thinks of factoring not as a.
As just a financial service where I get paid cash.
They think of it as an.
An outsourcing of a business function.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Which is their back office.
So to Sean Smith's point, they think of it as, I don't.
I don't have to collect from.
From Susan over there at, you know, ABC Shipping.
I just collect from Truck Stop.
And I can just work with Truck Stop.
And every time I go, I know exactly what to expect from Truck Stop.
And Truck Stop can deal with all the other stuff on the other side.
(23:39):
And guess what's gonna happen when I deal with Truck Stop?
It's going to be resolved like that.
I'm gonna get paid like that.
And everything else in their life, everything is like that.
Hey, Chris, you owe me 20 bucks for dinner.
Send me a Venmo Boom Venmo in my bank account.
Ready to spend.
Hey, I want to go buy some crypto.
Transfer to my bank.
My bank account to my.
My Robinhood app, immediate withdrawal.
(24:00):
I can go buy crypto right away.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Everything is right away, right now.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And so that.
That generational shift is also driving a lot of this.
And we're going to see the people that don't adopt and don't adapt to what's happening generationally are going to be ultimately not delivering the service that wins in 10 years from now.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And delivers value to customers 10 years from now.
So I think that's a really important factor, too, and influenced how we thought about bringing denim into the.
To the Truck Stop ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, it's, you know, from.
From my perspective, you know, again, another one of those lessons learned.
I'm really good at just, like, trying to figure stuff out on my own.
Right.
And it's ironically where I excel.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Because, like, you guys can sit here and tell me this a hundred times out of 100, but until I experience it myself, that's when I learn out there, and I'm trying to do that with this show all the time, is just take what I've learned from somebody who's actually built a business, who's been in the industry for a long time.
You can have a negative perception of lenders out there, but the only Way to fix that is have your own money.
(25:06):
And again, if you don't have money, when you start a business to support your business, there are avenues out there that are readily available to help you in that building stage and beyond, right?
And again, like, I, I know that the word personal guarantee, some people are shocked when they hear it.
It's like, well, you don't have to have a personal guarantee if you have money, right?
(25:27):
Like, no bank requires you to have a personal guarantee if you have the money in the bank, but you wouldn't be going to a lender if you had said money in the bank, right?
So it's like there's a give and a take that comes along with a lot of this.
And, and it's a harsh reality for a lot of people, right?
Because somebody on the Internet told them, like, oh, you don't have to do any of that stuff.
I didn't, blah, blah, blah.
But that's not the case.
(25:47):
And Dehan, to your point there, and I know product Sean and I have talked about this a lot where it's like having a somebody to help you automate your back office to help get your business to that next level.
Because again, not in Rainbow Land, when you're actually operating enough of a real P and L and you're trying to balance your budget, if you're looking at a partnership that you get with a company like Denim out there where it's like you have everything taken care of, where you know, you might not need to hire a back office person inside of your organization right away, you can again, go and build up your coffers and build up your cash in the bank so you know, you have money to pay for somebody's salary out there and you don't have to worry about that, right?
(26:27):
So it's like, that's the way that I look at a lot of these things is you're going to have to reach out and get money from somebody at some point if you're going to start a business in all reality, right?
Not, not all the time, but in a business like transportation is probably highly likely and you're going to have to explore a lot of your options.
And as a business owner myself, I look at it is, it's like, all right, if working with a company like denim cost me 2%, but a revolving line of credit at the bank, you know, 7%, it's a no brainer at that point, right?
(26:55):
Like, again, we're looking like those dollars, people hear those numbers and they can't comprehend.
But it's like we're talking, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a month.
Compound that out over a year.
That's somebody's salary potentially that you're saving out there.
And you know, again, I, I look at it as, this is a such a, I don't want to call it a fail safe because nothing's a fail safe.
(27:16):
But this is such a solid investment inside of your business to start taking things to the next level to scale your company up.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Hey, last time I checked, all of us are driving the same speed limits out there.
So the only thing you can do in between is move fast between loads.
Right.
Move fast with your money and move fast everywhere else.
And like we're like, we're here to support people moving fast.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah.
And that's what we need, we need to do that.
And especially when you're out there building a business.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
You know, when we were doing diligence on, because believe it or not, you know, m. And a process.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Is a long one, you didn't just give them a check.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
When were doing diligence on the denim business, we talked to a few mutual customers that we have and you know, we benefit from that ability to kind of call up a customer and say, hey, no, you denim, tell us about your experience.
And this is like, you know, a $15 million brokerage maybe so a nice size, but you know, still growing and still trying to scale.
(28:18):
And his words were using denim saves me at least two hires in the back office.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Dang.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Just using denim.
And what that means is that he can put that into customer facing roles, which actually drives growth.
Because unfortunately the back office isn't going to drive.
Back office people aren't going to drive growth.
What they're going to do is drive cash flow.
But maybe there's other ways to do that and actually take those savings and put them toward growth driving activities.
(28:50):
And then eventually maybe you graduate entirely from using factoring.
And now you're using back office automation software and you're using other tools that denim has to operate your business.
And I think we're really excited when customers get to the point that they're large enough, they're running their business successfully, that they graduate.
(29:12):
I mean, we're not trying to lock you in forever.
There's different products for different people.
And factoring is going to make a lot of sense for a lot of people, not gonna make sense for everyone.
And I think you'll see over time that in our ecosystem we develop products that are for more people and more different parts of the life stage too.
As we think about what, where denim goes from here.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I, I look at it as somebody who is bootstrapping their stuff up.
And you know, for me it's not that we don't wanna hire people, but with automation now a role that might have required four people, now we can hire one and arm them with the right technology where they can do the work of four people.
And I just think that's just where we are as a society.
(29:55):
And an appetite for things as a society is, you know, dehand your earliest point.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Like we want fast, we want quick, we want it now.
And as you're going and building your business, I think that's how my personal organization, we are going to leverage technology where it's like now instead of going out and hiring 10 people and hoping one or two work out, now we just hire the two people that we know.
We arm them with the right technology where they can 10x their outputs.
(30:21):
Again, this is always my part where I put in my caveat of is this is why my companies will never have cap commissions.
But again, that's a conversation for another day.
I want to arm my people so they can increase their output, so they can make more money in an uncapped commission roll out there.
But again, when you look at the back office structure, although it might not be a revenue producing seat, we can arm them with the right tools to make their accuracy through the roof at that point to where our cash flow doesn't get caught up because somebody made an error, you know, because again, we're all mistake.
(30:50):
We're all humans, we all make mistakes.
But again, if we can get that error percentage down to like 0.01%, I mean, how much better does that improve our operations as a whole out there?
All right, you guys.
Well, I know you guys have day jobs.
I get that.
And I wish I could continue to.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
I have a day job now, Chris.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, I know you do.
Yeah, there's no.
He actually reports to the only Sean and that's why it's up there like that.
Sorry, my report's due to you an hour.
I'll get it, Sean.
But no, you guys, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.
How does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you guys got going on now?
(31:32):
Truck stop dot com.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
There we go.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
LinkedIn, Twitter, email Sean dehanichuckstop.com hit me up.
Always, always open for a good conversation.
And, you know, I think, Chris, like, final words from me, just super grateful for to be Sean, Chad, other folks, all the folks at Denim for, you know, choosing to join the Truck Stop ecosystem, the Truck Stop family.
(31:57):
There's so much we can do, and the future is really bright with what our customers are going to experience.
I mean, if I'm a customer in freight tech in the next five years, I'm.
I'm feeling pretty good about what's coming my way and what it can do to my business.
And we hope we can be at the forefront of that for our customers and that we earn their trust to serve them now.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I love it.
I'm excited for where things are going out there.
I really am.
And this is, you know, like I said, like, as somebody who's a bootstrap founder out there, being able to leverage automation to financially build up my business to a point where it's sustainable, it means the world, right?
And that's one of those things that we're going to really go after and take advantage out there and utilize it for what it's for.
(32:45):
So, fellas, thank you guys so much for joining me.
If you guys can't find either Sean or Truck Stop, let me know.
I will gladly put you guys in contact with them.
But that's going to be it for today.
Ladies and gentlemen.
As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
And if you're feeling ambitious after this one, which you should be, rank the show on itunes and Spotify, because if you see value, your network's going to see it as well.
I appreciate you guys.
(33:06):
I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Came back with a bank hey, got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal When I'm getting to the battle if they hate, then let them hate them.
Make a bigger boss.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Hey.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger boss.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
A what is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It is the Freight Coach Podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central, to break down some industry headlines.
But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information.
If this is your first time tuning in, welcome.
This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen.
(00:47):
And I do say that before every single show.
And what I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve, so you can take that information, apply it, utilize it, and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life.
Happy Friday, everybody.
I got a very special show for you guys here today.
(01:08):
We're going to be talking a lot about freight tech.
What my friends over at Denim just kind of recently went through with my friends over a truck stop.
And I, I, I, I'm trying to think of a creative way to say this, but we got two Sean's on the show.
Both of them are going to enter.
Only one of them is going to last.
So I have Mr. Sean Dehan and my man, Sean Product.
Sean, sorry I had to go there.
Throw that in now with Truck Stop, dude.
(01:31):
Thank you guys both so much for joining me here today.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Hey, man, great to see you.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It's always a pleasure.
Chris.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I like how you the only Sean waited for production to step in there and say it first.
It was only.
He's just, he's just standing back there, like, speak you, Sean.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
He can see me, like, jumping out of my chair.
He's like, I'll just let him go.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Oh, man.
So no, thank you guys both for joining.
And you know, it's been quite a, the past couple of, you know, weeks here for you guys all with, you know, a lot of exciting announcements coming out.
And you know, I just, you know, like, when I saw the original post, like, I mean, I reached out to pretty much the whole team at Denim, you know, shot B and email because it's like Just knowing, going from like starting something and experiencing that myself.
(02:21):
Right.
Like when you just start with an idea and see it roll up into fruition and become successful and then, you know, go with where you guys have like, it's just amazing.
So, like, kind of like what brought this together from the beginning?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Like from Truck Stop's perspective, what was it about like that Denim was doing?
We're like, we want to be a part of this.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, totally.
So Truckstop has been in the financial services factoring game for a long time, since the early mid 2000s really.
And it's been a core element of our product offering to our customers, mostly to our small carriers.
(03:05):
And I think as the market has matured and there are more and more carriers, the market's bigger and bigger.
There's been more investment in this space.
And there have been a few companies in particular, like Denim, that have started and built a sort of technology first factoring and financial services and payments businesses.
(03:28):
And we knew that to deliver our customers what we wanted to deliver them, which was exceptional service, fast payments and a reliable product, we needed to be technology first.
And we looked out on the horizon and we looked at the companies that really invested heavily into technology.
(03:53):
And the Denim team has just done an exceptional job from start to finish building a product, building technology and building a business that's really important too.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
It's oftentimes very hard in M and A to just build by technology that doesn't have a business tied to.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
Makes.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
The analysis very challenging, makes the underwriting really hard.
But business.
But Denim and the Denim team has built an incredible business as well.
It's also expanded our ability to serve our customers in a unique way.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Today we're effectively a non recourse factoring business.
We've added recourse factoring, we've added a large broker book of business to obviously, Chris, as a network, we serve small carriers, fleet carriers and brokers today in our marketplace business and many of our other products.
But in our financial services business, we didn't serve brokers.
(04:42):
So we've added that ability to serve brokers as well today.
So, you know, the combination of great team, great technology, great product and expansion of what we can offer and incredibly like much better service.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
We're going to be delivering incredible service.
75% of payments are done in less than process in less than one minute.
That's just exceptional.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
If you're, if you're out on the road and you're in a bind as an owner operator, we can solve that problem very quickly for you.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
You can go from no cash to cash in minutes.
Where most of our competitors, most of the other companies in the space and Truck Stop itself couldn't have done that before denim.
And so we're taking technology that denim hasn't had the ability to bring to the owner operator effectively because distributing the owner operator is very hard.
And we're taking that technology and we're unlocking it into a huge part of the market.
(05:29):
And I think that's helping.
When we talked to Bea and Sean, the other Sean is not on this call right now.
Sean vo about.
About denim.
That was one of the huge value props to them was that were going to take the technology they built, they spent so much time building the business they built.
We were going to be able to take it and give it to a larger part of the market and have a larger impact for what their team has worked so hard on.
(05:49):
And so that was kind of the combination story.
And it's been exciting.
The team executes super fast.
Sean was giving me heck yesterday because I said I was going to give you like a quarter to finish that thing.
He's like, I finished it last week.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Come on.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And so the team moves incredibly fast and we're all having to calibrate to their speed.
And it's been fun.
It's been fun catching that.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
No, I love that.
And you know, speeds everything, right?
It's, it's, you know, in this industry, speed will kill all deals and stuff like that.
And you know, that's one thing again, I'm not speaking for denim or Sean or anything like this, but like throughout the years of us working together and stuff like that, like, that's been such their core focus.
(06:34):
Like, I remember the first time I was invited to speak at Denham's team like retreat back here in Phoenix like three years ago.
And they were so passionate about it.
And B was so passionate about like, no, we want to bring technology out or we want to make this as seamless as possible.
We want to make this financial side of this business as easily accessible for everybody.
(06:58):
And we have the technology to make that happen.
And then, you know, Sean and I have had our monthly financial Friday show for like a year where him and I would just go in and we would do those best practices out there for business owners and, you know, understanding cash flow.
And as somebody who, you know, I've been self employed now for five years.
And I don't know everything, but that's one thing that is at was at like the top of my mind.
(07:21):
It took me a couple of years to fully grasp it of like no, I need to fully understand my P and L. I need to fully be able to balance my cash flow.
How do I make my money actually work for me as opposed to going out there and you know, maybe taking out like a, a rolling capital line of credit from the bank and then that cost me interest.
It's like how do I leverage all of this stuff to, for the stuff that I'm already paying for to help it use my business and expand it out.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Here's the thing too.
We can add this to our next financial Friday.
But like partnerships start early, right?
Like we've been in the truck stop marketplace dehand for more than two years or something.
Like we started out with like sort of a light referral relationship.
We've gotten to know the truck stop folks for quite a long time and like just kind of continuing to nurture that relationship.
(08:09):
And the timing for us was really good that like Sean and team were super interested in making a play in the space and the combination just made a ton of sense because we like there's a lot of moving and shaking happening in factoring right now and in freight tech like across the board and having a business like Truck Stop that has such a valuable asset in the load board and the truck stop ecosystem and sort of everything in between.
(08:36):
It was like a, it was a no brainer for us to be like oh wow, this is going to be a huge opportunity for us.
Like we'll like we'll almost triple the size of our volume in the next 90 days, right?
In bringing on all of the truck stop factoring volumes.
It's going to be huge for us.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
What's the, you know, from your guys's perspective now?
Obviously cash flow is king for 95 plus percent of the market, right?
Because if you're looking at it just strictly from the carrier numbers out there, 95% of the trucks on the road are 20 truck or less operations.
Like I actually just did the research on this for one of those shows this week that I had done and like, and then if you think about it that's almost completely applicable on the broker side of the industry as well.
(09:21):
95% of the market is that what would people would be considered a smaller business in scale.
And you know, for me it's like having financial, having a Strong financial understanding, I think is probably what kills most businesses.
Or not having a strong financial understanding, excuse me, is probably what kills more businesses than not because the data is out there in regards to small business.
(09:44):
Most small businesses are 30 days away from going out of business every single month.
If they have one late payment come in and then they miss a payment for one of their vendors, like they could like legitimately lose their business.
It's that razor thin out there.
And then if you look at a capital intensive business that is trucking, you know, like Dehan you were talking about there, like if one of your drivers is out on the road and they need access to capital and stuff like that, and that resource might not have been there like that just like legitimately strengthens your guys's user base at such a level now.
(10:16):
And it is changing the game, right?
Because again, speed's everything.
The last thing a driver wants to deal with is a lack of capital on the side of the road when they're like, they don't know how they're going to get their truck fixed and stuff like that.
And then, you know, again, I'll just say it as a business owner, those thoughts have going through your head is like, is this it?
Is this the death blow?
Is this what was going to put my dream away for good?
(10:37):
So it's like I look at it as this is an opportunity and this is what I'm the most excited about in freight tech is that again, it's that speed aspect of it, right?
Like knowing that you have that one stop that you can go to in the event that you need something is like, it's such a breath of fresh air for most business owners that they won't realize it until they're in that situation.
(11:01):
Right.
Like I would love to sit here and what do they call it on the campaign?
Rainbow land or whatever.
And you'd be like, oh, nothing's ever going to go wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Rainbows and unicorns.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, yeah, unicorns, exactly.
But it's like you don't think about this stuff until you need it.
And then when you know that you have an organization that you can turn to in that moment that's going to save so many people's businesses that unfortunately they're not going to know about until they're in that situation.
But it's such a massive value add out there.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
100%.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think, look, the speed.
So I'll take a couple of those points.
Like one speed, I think it was like, Jeff, bezos at some point in time said something along the lines of, it's effectively a one way door.
The more and more we deliver value to our customers in terms of speed of which we can deliver them like a package.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
The.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
There's no going back from that.
No one will ever settle for less once they receive a package with.
I mean, I'm giving packages in some crazy amounts of time now.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Like it is absurdity.
When I order something, I can get it in like six hours at my house.
Some random thing that you would never expect them to have inventory on.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Getting your cash fast is the same way.
Once you experience the speed at which you can and get your cash from an invoice, you're never going back.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And the pace at which people like Denim and others have invested in financial technology to establish the system, the processes and the rails to pay customers in minutes.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Auto verify, pay them 247 and within minutes.
So that you're in that bind.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
You've got that scenario where you're at the late at night on Labor Day and, and no one's out there.
No one's, no one's answering any phone calls on Labor Day.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Everybody's off.
And, but you need cash to pay for fuel so you can get back home or you can go wherever you need to get.
I, I actually reached out to Sean Vo on the day after Labor Day.
I said, hey man, how many payments do we make on.
On Labor Day?
And because the year before, we made a total of zero payments on Labor Day.
Yeah.
(13:16):
And went from making zero payments to hundreds of payments on Labor Day.
And it's simply because now we have the technology that enables us to make payments when our customers need them.
Guess what?
Our customers work on Labor Day.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
It's not takeoff day for them, it's work on Labor Day for a lot of them.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
And so this is the type of thing that enables us to move the industry forward and help our customers stay in business in a lot of cases.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Reduce the stress of being in the business, increase their health.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Improve their health because their stress levels are lower.
And that's part of our vision at Truck Stop.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
All we really want to do at Truck Stop is really simple.
We want to build the tools and the products that our customers need and we want to integrate them so that each one gets better because it's part of the other.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Right.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
And so buying denim, bringing denim into the Truck Stop family, improved how we factor for our customers, improved how we paid them.
But it's also going to improve how we integrate that solution and those services into the rest of our ecosystem.
So now our customers are going to benefit from the data that we have in our factoring business to how we match our freight and how we manage the risk of our portfolio is going to benefited from all the other data points that we have in our system and how we underwrite our customers and what types of credit we give them, how many people we can pay them out on, how all these things just get better because we put the system together and Denim's technology and Denim's product and their team enable us to plug that in ways that weren't able to before.
(14:47):
So, you know, you're right.
Speed matters a ton.
And you know, usually there's two things that kill people, kill businesses.
The first is no customers, and the second is no cash flow.
You can have customers and not have cash flow.
And that's really problematic, particularly in a business like freight.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
And so we're here to help you with that cash flow problem and we're also here to help you with that customer problem, particularly if you are a carrier.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
And that's why, you know, it works so well together.
Peanut butter and jelly.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, it's.
It is a massive issue out there.
You know, as somebody who's been in that situation before where, you know, you have customers, you have revenue, but that's pretty.
It sucks when they don't pay you.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or they're delayed in their payments or, you know, and especially when you're just getting started out.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Like, I think that there's such a fallacy out there.
You guys about like, oh, you started a business, you instantly have multi six figures in the bank.
Everything's fine, you'll be good, you can weather everything and oh, all business is good business.
Like, don't worry about it.
That is so far from the truth.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like, I want to say that everybody has the best intentions out there, but like, the reality is I got data that proves the, the opposite of that.
Right.
Not everybody does and things happen.
But like, again, even if, you know, there's a slow play or, you know, you brought up a holiday weekend, for example, say your customer paid you on a Friday, well, that.
The Friday before, well, guess what?
That money doesn't hit your bank account until Tuesday or whatever that looks like, and something happens.
(16:11):
So again, it's like you have to have these contingency plans in place.
But then like, that is where I think freight tech is.
And like the Bar has been set now where it's like, you have to have instant results for this stuff, right?
Like, there is no more.
You know, like, Sean Dehan, you said they're like, oh, we're not on, but our customers are on.
Like, there is no more of that, I think.
And that's where technology steps up and gives you that 24, 7, 365 presence.
(16:36):
And that's essentially what Denim's been preaching since day one, right?
Like, hey, we're here.
We're here around the clock for you guys.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, I. I think the cool thing, too, Chris, especially, is that the Truck Stop brand is.
Is super powerful in.
So as a carrier, if you're collecting on an invoice and you are Joe's Trucking, and you're Joe alone, you carry a lot less weight.
When that invoice comes due, then truckstop.com on the.
On the invoice that they're sending on behalf of their carriers.
(17:05):
So, like, use your partnerships, right?
Like, if you have somebody with such a. I mean, it's gonna be great for us too, for sure.
Right.
To.
To have kind of Truck Stop behind us, in addition to all the other benefits of just, like, you know, better cost of capital, better access to customers, more credit lines that we can offer.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
There's a ton of optionality that we can provide carriers and brokers that work through kind of the flywheel between Truck Stop and denim and back to Truck stop and around again.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So, like, where.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
No, I was gonna ask Sean, what's the average DSO right now?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So you all are at 23 days, but the average for the industry is up in the 40s.
I think it's 41 or 42.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
So it's like, you know, you're talking about people waiting more than a month, Chris, on average, for payment.
I'm sure your experience, you experience that.
And we've got shippers that pay even on longer terms than way longer term.
That's an average.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Right.
And.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Waiting 42 days to get paid for most people at a small size.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
If you're a small fleet or a relatively small broker, you know, under 10 million, 15 million doll gross revenue.
That's a long time.
In 42 days, you could have three payrolls.
Yeah, like three payrolls in 42 days, depending on how the calendar.
Calendar spits.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
So it's like, there's a lot to consider there.
And.
And that.
That's incredibly challenging to be working with.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
42 days, three payrolls, or two truck payments.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Right.
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah.
No, and that's exactly it.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
And that's what, you know, again.
And you know, product.
Sean, you brought up a really good point there.
When you're just Joe's Trucking or Tim's Trucking or whatever that looks like out there, you don't have the buying power or like the sway, you know, it's like you're just at one truck operation.
And especially if you're just out there really getting started and trying to build your dreams, right?
(19:06):
Like you're trying to put away money.
Like, I, you know, again, I can't speak for everybody, but I don't know a ton of people who are just like, no, I hope I start this business and everything flames out and I get end up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and potentially bankrupt, right?
Like, I don't know of anybody who.
That's their initial thought.
Yeah, but it's like, you know, I, I look at it is like, you know, having that and then again, like, what is the most, like, the most cost effective way to get access to that capital, right?
(19:31):
Because again, if you have a line of credit at a bank, what's the interest rate on that, right?
Like, what are they charging you to get that?
Or what does it look like to get paid faster through factoring?
And like, you have to weigh out all of those options.
And then again, like getting.
And then how fast can you get that capital, right?
Like if you're utilizing somebody and they're like, oh yeah, we approve it on a Friday.
And then, you know, if they don't process it in time, is it still Tuesday before you get it?
(19:55):
And what if your truck payments due on Monday or whatever that looks like, right?
Like, these are very real stresses that a lot of people come up with, you know, on a monthly basis.
So it's like this speed is everything.
And like, truly, I feel like that's got to be like the message out there, you guys is fast, right?
Like, we get your money, we get you paid quick on top of that.
So like, with what do you think that this is going to change the game here kind of moving forward with Freight Tech, you know, and especially with a company like Truck Stop who's got multiple service offerings out there, right?
(20:26):
Does this force you guys, Sean Dehan, excuse me.
To like, start looking at some of your other products and like, hey, how can we speed this up, right?
Like, how do we get.
How do we get faster?
How do we level this all up across the board?
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, everything's got to be Faster, right?
And everything's got a.
Speed is a way of delivering service and transparency.
I mean, were just talking yesterday, I think about a customer we're working with right now bringing over to the denim platform that's super stoked about coming to denim.
And Chris, it's for a really simple reason.
(21:00):
They can actually see everything happening, right?
They know exactly where their invoice is.
They know exactly what problems the invoice has.
They know exactly how to resolve the problems.
They know where to resolve the problems.
They know when they resolve the problems, how quickly they're going to get paid at their other provider.
They don't have any visibility.
They have to call in every single time they want to talk about invoice.
If they work through with someone every time they want to talk to an invoice, they're probably talking to someone in the Philippines when they talk to someone.
(21:22):
Not, not the paid on the Philippines or anything like that, but they're probably not talking to someone in the US when they do it either.
And what we're talking about here is changing the experience level layer, right?
The whole experience layer is changing.
And what denim was doing was phenomenal, but what denim was doing was at a scale that wasn't impacting the whole industry, right?
(21:44):
And when you're, when you're doing a denim and you're still small and you don't have distribution, you can impact a few customers and you probably will impact a number of customers over your lifetime.
But until you get distribution, you're not going to change the industry, right?
And what we have the opportunity now is to distribute this experience.
And there's, it's a one way door, right?
(22:05):
There's only one way forward after we distribute this experience.
Once customers touch this experience, there's only one way they're going to, they're gonna look, they're not going back to another way just because the rate is 10 bits lower or 20bps lower, they're going to demand that it's 10 bits lower.
And I get the same experience, right?
And so we're really excited about that.
And to your point, Chris, you're going to see this type of mentality and everything that we do, right?
(22:29):
How do we help our customers find freight faster?
How do we help our customers find trucks faster?
How do we help them find the right truck?
Everything's going to come with speed because what our customers need in today's market, particularly in today's market, is speed.
Speed matters a ton and I was going to kind of add.
You know, were working with a partner, a really large industry organization that, you know the name of.
(22:52):
And they were telling us that historically they.
They've never recommended factoring to their customers and.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
But they're.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Or their membership and their.
But their members are getting younger.
And the younger generation thinks of factoring not as a.
As just a financial service where I get paid cash.
They think of it as an.
An outsourcing of a business function.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Which is their back office.
So to Sean Smith's point, they think of it as, I don't.
I don't have to collect from.
From Susan over there at, you know, ABC Shipping.
I just collect from Truck Stop.
And I can just work with Truck Stop.
And every time I go, I know exactly what to expect from Truck Stop.
And Truck Stop can deal with all the other stuff on the other side.
(23:39):
And guess what's gonna happen when I deal with Truck Stop?
It's going to be resolved like that.
I'm gonna get paid like that.
And everything else in their life, everything is like that.
Hey, Chris, you owe me 20 bucks for dinner.
Send me a Venmo Boom Venmo in my bank account.
Ready to spend.
Hey, I want to go buy some crypto.
Transfer to my bank.
My bank account to my.
My Robinhood app, immediate withdrawal.
(24:00):
I can go buy crypto right away.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Everything is right away, right now.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And so that.
That generational shift is also driving a lot of this.
And we're going to see the people that don't adopt and don't adapt to what's happening generationally are going to be ultimately not delivering the service that wins in 10 years from now.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And delivers value to customers 10 years from now.
So I think that's a really important factor, too, and influenced how we thought about bringing denim into the.
To the Truck Stop ecosystem.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, it's, you know, from.
From my perspective, you know, again, another one of those lessons learned.
I'm really good at just, like, trying to figure stuff out on my own.
Right.
And it's ironically where I excel.
Speaker 5 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Because, like, you guys can sit here and tell me this a hundred times out of 100, but until I experience it myself, that's when I learn out there, and I'm trying to do that with this show all the time, is just take what I've learned from somebody who's actually built a business, who's been in the industry for a long time.
You can have a negative perception of lenders out there, but the only Way to fix that is have your own money.
(25:06):
And again, if you don't have money, when you start a business to support your business, there are avenues out there that are readily available to help you in that building stage and beyond, right?
And again, like, I, I know that the word personal guarantee, some people are shocked when they hear it.
It's like, well, you don't have to have a personal guarantee if you have money, right?
(25:27):
Like, no bank requires you to have a personal guarantee if you have the money in the bank, but you wouldn't be going to a lender if you had said money in the bank, right?
So it's like there's a give and a take that comes along with a lot of this.
And, and it's a harsh reality for a lot of people, right?
Because somebody on the Internet told them, like, oh, you don't have to do any of that stuff.
I didn't, blah, blah, blah.
But that's not the case.
(25:47):
And Dehan, to your point there, and I know product Sean and I have talked about this a lot where it's like having a somebody to help you automate your back office to help get your business to that next level.
Because again, not in Rainbow Land, when you're actually operating enough of a real P and L and you're trying to balance your budget, if you're looking at a partnership that you get with a company like Denim out there where it's like you have everything taken care of, where you know, you might not need to hire a back office person inside of your organization right away, you can again, go and build up your coffers and build up your cash in the bank so you know, you have money to pay for somebody's salary out there and you don't have to worry about that, right?
(26:27):
So it's like, that's the way that I look at a lot of these things is you're going to have to reach out and get money from somebody at some point if you're going to start a business in all reality, right?
Not, not all the time, but in a business like transportation is probably highly likely and you're going to have to explore a lot of your options.
And as a business owner myself, I look at it is, it's like, all right, if working with a company like denim cost me 2%, but a revolving line of credit at the bank, you know, 7%, it's a no brainer at that point, right?
(26:55):
Like, again, we're looking like those dollars, people hear those numbers and they can't comprehend.
But it's like we're talking, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a month.
Compound that out over a year.
That's somebody's salary potentially that you're saving out there.
And you know, again, I, I look at it as, this is a such a, I don't want to call it a fail safe because nothing's a fail safe.
(27:16):
But this is such a solid investment inside of your business to start taking things to the next level to scale your company up.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Hey, last time I checked, all of us are driving the same speed limits out there.
So the only thing you can do in between is move fast between loads.
Right.
Move fast with your money and move fast everywhere else.
And like we're like, we're here to support people moving fast.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah.
And that's what we need, we need to do that.
And especially when you're out there building a business.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
You know, when we were doing diligence on, because believe it or not, you know, m. And a process.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Is a long one, you didn't just give them a check.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
When were doing diligence on the denim business, we talked to a few mutual customers that we have and you know, we benefit from that ability to kind of call up a customer and say, hey, no, you denim, tell us about your experience.
And this is like, you know, a $15 million brokerage maybe so a nice size, but you know, still growing and still trying to scale.
(28:18):
And his words were using denim saves me at least two hires in the back office.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Dang.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Just using denim.
And what that means is that he can put that into customer facing roles, which actually drives growth.
Because unfortunately the back office isn't going to drive.
Back office people aren't going to drive growth.
What they're going to do is drive cash flow.
But maybe there's other ways to do that and actually take those savings and put them toward growth driving activities.
(28:50):
And then eventually maybe you graduate entirely from using factoring.
And now you're using back office automation software and you're using other tools that denim has to operate your business.
And I think we're really excited when customers get to the point that they're large enough, they're running their business successfully, that they graduate.
(29:12):
I mean, we're not trying to lock you in forever.
There's different products for different people.
And factoring is going to make a lot of sense for a lot of people, not gonna make sense for everyone.
And I think you'll see over time that in our ecosystem we develop products that are for more people and more different parts of the life stage too.
As we think about what, where denim goes from here.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I, I look at it as somebody who is bootstrapping their stuff up.
And you know, for me it's not that we don't wanna hire people, but with automation now a role that might have required four people, now we can hire one and arm them with the right technology where they can do the work of four people.
And I just think that's just where we are as a society.
(29:55):
And an appetite for things as a society is, you know, dehand your earliest point.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Like we want fast, we want quick, we want it now.
And as you're going and building your business, I think that's how my personal organization, we are going to leverage technology where it's like now instead of going out and hiring 10 people and hoping one or two work out, now we just hire the two people that we know.
We arm them with the right technology where they can 10x their outputs.
(30:21):
Again, this is always my part where I put in my caveat of is this is why my companies will never have cap commissions.
But again, that's a conversation for another day.
I want to arm my people so they can increase their output, so they can make more money in an uncapped commission roll out there.
But again, when you look at the back office structure, although it might not be a revenue producing seat, we can arm them with the right tools to make their accuracy through the roof at that point to where our cash flow doesn't get caught up because somebody made an error, you know, because again, we're all mistake.
(30:50):
We're all humans, we all make mistakes.
But again, if we can get that error percentage down to like 0.01%, I mean, how much better does that improve our operations as a whole out there?
All right, you guys.
Well, I know you guys have day jobs.
I get that.
And I wish I could continue to.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
I have a day job now, Chris.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, I know you do.
Yeah, there's no.
He actually reports to the only Sean and that's why it's up there like that.
Sorry, my report's due to you an hour.
I'll get it, Sean.
But no, you guys, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.
How does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you guys got going on now?
(31:32):
Truck stop dot com.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
There we go.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
LinkedIn, Twitter, email Sean dehanichuckstop.com hit me up.
Always, always open for a good conversation.
And, you know, I think, Chris, like, final words from me, just super grateful for to be Sean, Chad, other folks, all the folks at Denim for, you know, choosing to join the Truck Stop ecosystem, the Truck Stop family.
(31:57):
There's so much we can do, and the future is really bright with what our customers are going to experience.
I mean, if I'm a customer in freight tech in the next five years, I'm.
I'm feeling pretty good about what's coming my way and what it can do to my business.
And we hope we can be at the forefront of that for our customers and that we earn their trust to serve them now.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I love it.
I'm excited for where things are going out there.
I really am.
And this is, you know, like I said, like, as somebody who's a bootstrap founder out there, being able to leverage automation to financially build up my business to a point where it's sustainable, it means the world, right?
And that's one of those things that we're going to really go after and take advantage out there and utilize it for what it's for.
(32:45):
So, fellas, thank you guys so much for joining me.
If you guys can't find either Sean or Truck Stop, let me know.
I will gladly put you guys in contact with them.
But that's going to be it for today.
Ladies and gentlemen.
As always, if you got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show.
And if you're feeling ambitious after this one, which you should be, rank the show on itunes and Spotify, because if you see value, your network's going to see it as well.
I appreciate you guys.
(33:06):
I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Came back with a bank hey, got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal When I'm getting to the battle if they hate, then let them hate them.
Make a bigger boss.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Hey.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.