1290. #TFCP - Behind the Scenes at IANA - Part 1: What’s Next For Intermodal? - Coffee w/#The Freight Coach

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger ball hey.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
What is up, ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live at iana.
It's the Freight Coach podcast.
My name is Chris Jolly and I got my good friend Christy here today.
She is the queen of intermodal.
If I'm being completely honest, she's educated me personally a lot over the years and how she balances out being a broker and everything out there.
So what does IANA mean to you?

(00:49):
Your family's company, everything.
You've been coming here for 20 some years at this point?

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
It's extremely important.
That is the niche of my company.
The bulk of what we do is shipping intermodal, and it's super important because we come here and we get to meet with our Drake carriers that come across the whole country here.
All the railroads that we work with all come here.
So we get to have meetings.
I think I mentioned to you earlier, we typically have like 36 meetings when we come here in like three and a half days.

(01:16):
So.
So it's so important to be able to meet everyone in one space instead of having to travel across the country.
Not that we don't at other times, too, to see some of them.
But you're not going to see all these carriers all the time other than here.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, it's, you know, I look at it, there's so much in this industry that's out there and like, how do you.
How do you maximize a trade show?
Let's start with that.
Because you're saying 36 meetings across this time frame.
I think there's a lot of people who want to come to trade shows, but they're afraid, like, is it going to be worth my time, the resources that you invest?
Because obviously, like, this isn't free.
Right.

(01:49):
And if you know you own your own, you own your company, Christy.
So you look at your P and L every single month and how do you maximize this?
And, like, what's the ROI of coming to a show like this?

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah.
So as far as maximizing it, we know we're going to meet with all the different railroads that are here.
So that's the first thing.
And then as far as the carriers, we have all the carriers that meet with us.
So we want to make sure, that we are booked pretty much from seven o' clock in the morning and sometimes we don't even get into 11.
There's breakfasts, lunches, dinners.

(02:20):
You need to make sure your schedule is packed with these meetings to meet the people because a lot of times these people are not going to be on the trade show floor like maybe 20 years ago.
So we come here and make sure that happens.
And it's one of.
As far as the ROI goes I would just say I can't really put a number on it.
But it's the relationship building.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
At the end of the day, I've been in the industry for 28 years and having the relationships with these dray carriers and the railroads is extremely important, especially the dray carriers.
Because again when there's a shortage of equipment and they had delivered a shipment and they have an empty box, instead of bringing it back to the ramp, I want that carrier to give the box to me.
So building those relationships have been key.

(03:00):
And over Covid I can tell you we got a lot of our equipment from the carriers that have the boxes and they might have 10 different companies that are asking them for equipment.
I want them to give it to me.
So as far as the ROI goes, I don't know the number but it's huge.
Just because again those relationships mean everything.
When you need something done, you need them to do a favor for you, those type of things.

(03:24):
So I just can't tell you how important it is on the relationship side.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
What is it about Intermodal that you guys like, how did this kind of come about?
Right.
Because you know, you have a family company and everything, you're running it now.
What was it about this where that was like your guys core service offering.
Did you guys kind of fall into it or was that the plan from the beginning?

Speaker 3 (03:45):
So initially it goes way back to when my dad actually worked for the railroad.
Okay.
We originally are from New Jersey.
So he worked with the railroad there, moved to Pittsburgh with the railroad and then initially when they wanted him to move to Omaha, he was like nope, I'm not moving again.
I'm going to go on the 3 PL side.

(04:05):
So going on the 3 PL side then is brokering the freight for the railroad.
And that's when he started working in the industry for other companies and just shipping railroad business.
So that's how we got into it.
When we opened the company in 2003 again my dad was able to get the rail contracts because of his relationships, started the business and it was Only Intermodal initially, but then as it grew, those customers then wanted us to do the truckload and the ltl, which is how those services came about as well.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
So how are you guys out there developing business in a time like right now?
Like, are you guys focusing in on that niche?
Is that or.
Or is it like you guys been working with the same companies for so long now that, that's kind of like that deeper selling with them is the strategy?

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah.
So I would say this.
Well, two things.
We have some customers that my father started the business with.
You heard me say 28 years he had these customers prior to me working for him.
And we still have some of those core customers today.
So 30 years we've been shipping heavy in the rice industry.
That's how the business started.
And we still have those customers today.

(05:12):
But it is about growing organically with those customers, but then again, targeting other customers out there.
Because on the Intermodal side, a lot of people don't realize how much Intermodal is to them from a, you know, saving money, just saving on the whole ESG sustainability side of things, because that's a big thing nowadays to sell, that can be a little bit challenging, but it's really about talking to customers, hey, ship your truckload on the products that need to get there and then ship back up Intermodal so you can save money.

(05:47):
That's the biggest thing.
So then you're then replacing your inventory with the backup shipments of Intermodal.
So I think that's extremely important.
So sometimes it's hard to get that across to customers that have never shipped Intermodal because when you're shipping truckload, you're just picking it up, you're delivering it.
With Intermodal, you do have to block embrace differently.
There's longer transit times, there's things that can happen that cause delays and sometimes that can frustrate certain companies out there.

(06:13):
And something like that happens, they might say, well, I'm not going to do it, but if you can save 20, 30%, which in some lanes that's going to be the key, over 700 miles.
It's important.
So we have to go out there and educate these customers and reach out to them.
Because most customers, if they're shipping truckload, they can probably ship Intermobile too.
So it's talking about their network and really understanding their business and explaining to them how this can actually help their business and again, help their bottom line.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, I think that, you know, from my perspective, it's even Having those different options kind of in your arsenal.
You know, like, I would, I was, I talk about it a lot on this show is, you know, I think the days of being a generalist in this industry are, I don't want to say over, but I feel like for companies that are smaller, which make up 97% of the industry, you need that core offering that gets you in the door.

(07:08):
And then I also look at, like I was just talking about this the other week, Christy.
Like, you know, somebody was like, why do you just do flatbed?
I'm like, I don't know, it's a $60 billion market.
Why do I need to do anything else?
And then on top of that, there isn't one provider out there that controls more than 1% of the market.
So if we're looking at it from an opportunities perspective and then especially in today's environment, and I think Covid created a seismic shift on how people are going to want to source their transportation due to, I mean, you probably saw it more than anybody, the amount of disruptions that happened with capacity out there.

(07:40):
So now it's like they don't want to just work with anybody anymore.
They want that person, that subject matter expert who's going to come in and be able to separate yourself from everybody else.
Because there's business to be had out there right now, there's new business to be developed.
But I don't think the days of, hey, give me your freight, we can do everything for you is going to fly anymore.
And then especially I just look at it as like I want to, you know, from like the thing like, oh, I'm really good at multitasking.

(08:07):
No, you're just really good at doing multiple things.
Half ass in my opinion.
Right.
So it's like for us when we're building our company and it seemingly that's been a core of your guys's business for almost 30 years now.
Do you see yourself just continuing down here?
How do you improve your service offering by being that niche based provider.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah.
So riches in the niches.
Right.
And I'll tell you something real briefly too.
So it is important to stay in that niche.
You have to be an expert at something and not try to, like you said, half ass everything else.
But at the end of the day, it's important to continue to push forward with that niche.
A couple years ago we decided that we really wanted to strategically grow or over the road because we know to get to my goal that I want to for growth in the company to 300 million, I'm going to have to also grow the other areas.

(08:58):
But we started to deteriorate the other side because weren't focusing on it.
So now we're just going to continue to focus double down on the intermodal side and continue to push that forward because again there is a lot of business.
Even though I think intermodals may be 4% of the overall market but it's a huge number out there and we're competing in a space with asset carriers like your Schneiders.

(09:21):
Your STG is your JB hunts that are out there.
They have their own boxes or drayage.
We don't.
We're non asset based so we rely on the railroads to help us.
We can also use those options but we also have a lot of other options, 40, 45 footers that we can move domestically.
So as a non asset imc we have a lot of different options in our tool belt versus like just an asset carrier out there that if you move with them it is just one option they have there.

(09:49):
Even though they do other services, they're not going to be able to use a railroad box or another provider's box like we can.
That's our uniqueness.
That is my sell out there because again with some customers we can be very flexible and switch on a dime when they need it.
Where sometimes it's challenging for those bigger, larger companies that are the asset base.
But again in markets like this too they can also buy into markets and we can't.

(10:15):
So that again can make it challenging.
But it's just getting out there and talking with these customers and hitting many of them as you can and just pushing forward.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
How did you come to that conclusion as a leader to go back to.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
Your core service offering?

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Because I feel like, you know, I know I've gone through this numerous times over the years where it's like oh we have to do this.
And like we actually just recently went through something like this inside of my brokerage where we're like hey, let's go after some drive in stuff.
Let's go after it.
Because building slow right like flatbed right now is.
It's down as a market overall.
But like I was going out and I just, I felt myself getting scattered.

(10:52):
I'm like why do I feel like I'm doing a whole bunch of shit and not accomplishing anything with it?
So like as a leader, what was that moment?
Was it just a bunch of little things or did you know it earlier on?
You wanted to see if it was going to play out and then you finally just cut the cord.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
I would say, you know, we put all in to grow it.
We purchased a system and spent a lot of money.
I brought in leaders.
The problem was when we brought in leader after leader and it didn't work.
And it's not that like, I don't know Intermoder over the road or my coo, we know it enough.
But again, we needed someone who was an expert to grow that, but it just, it was not working with the people we put in place.

(11:33):
So then it took our focus away from Intermodal to where like were trying to figure that out, spent all this money and then were like, you know what, I can't continue to dump money in this right now.
Let's go back to our core service, focus on that.
Let's get that foundation even, start stronger, continue to work on that.
And then down the road, I know we will go back to trying to grow the over the road.

(11:56):
But again, a lot of that has come from our Interm customers and once we can do that, we'll go back to take a look at it.
I just don't know that it's going to be this easy button, but right now it's really focusing on it.
So I would say to your point, what made it happen was having the bad leaders that we brought in that just did not push it forward and spending all the time and money into it.

(12:22):
And it was just like, are we going to keep doing this and failing, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Do you think it's more beneficial for organizations to develop leaders as opposed to go out and buy them?
And I say that in the sense of like, I've heard this from multiple founders that I know, right?
Where it's like every business, you know, your company has an identity.
Their companies have an identity, mine has an identity.

(12:46):
Why is it so hard for outside experience to come in and buy into the way that you guys do that, do you think?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
You know, I think it's interesting because I do, you know, get my leaders training and stuff like that.
I think part of it is, you know, Truckload is a different world, I think on that side.
And again, we don't know all the things that, you know, move that in the department, how they need to work.
I mean, yes, we know a good bit of things, but you know, you really need to bring in someone I think that has really done it at a larger company to come in and do it our way.

(13:21):
Our way is different though.
We don't do cradle to grave.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
On our Truckload, because we have a sales team that's out there bringing business in, and that model works, too.
But I don't know why it's so challenging other than.
Well, part of it would be we're in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
It's not a big market for truckloads, someone I think that might be the right candidate would have to be move to Pittsburgh to do that.
But again, like, we've put in multiple leaders that just.
It did.
It didn't work.
And again, it's not that we wouldn't invest in them to do more.
I think at the time, you know, you bring in people that have been in the industry for a while, and you feel really good about it, and then, unfortunately, it just hasn't worked out.

(14:02):
So I think it really comes down to the person, and maybe it's the culture, too, because we have a certain culture that we built with the company through Intermodal.
And sometimes you do get a little bit of this between the groups, because in Truckload, you know, they want to play music and it's a little bit louder, but it's never really been loud in our office.
And that's something we're changing even now because, you know, it just has to be that way.

(14:26):
Yeah.
And I do think just getting better leaders in.
And again, the coaching, the mentoring, that's something we're doing now.
We just started a new training program.
Even with everybody, everyone in the company is going to be retrained on pretty much everything.
Because as we continue to grow and at the level we are today, things are changing.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
So how are you, like, kind of approaching that from a training and development thing?
Right.
Because I feel like most companies, I mean, again, I don't know the insights of every single organization out there, but a lot of companies don't invest in training and development.
Right.
It's the.
Here's a couple of weeks.
Go out, figure it out.
Why?
What happened where you guys are like, hey, we got to double down on our core strengths.

(15:06):
We got to train our people more.
We got to continue to train them.
Like, I'm all about training.
Like, I. I never think I'm gonna be good in business where, like, I don't need to continue to learn.
So, like, what.
What was that?
Was it like, do you work with other.
Like, a mentor who came to you?
Like, you guys gotta go and start there.
What did that.
What kind of came about?

Speaker 3 (15:22):
No, I think it's just the fact that, you know, people.
There's been a lot of people that have been with me A long time.
And we have evolved.
We've gone from a very small company to we'll be over 100 million this year.
And with that comes a different way that you have to handle business, or we're bringing in larger accounts that demand a lot more attention and detail that we've never dealt with before.

(15:43):
In some of our people, they've never dealt with it either.
So I would say when the training really came about, like we knew we had a train, I thrown into the fire.
We all, you know, sit for a couple of weeks.
Right.
But we know that it's not the best training.
And we really did a deep dive this past summer where were really asking people questions about, you know, how do you do this, how you do.

(16:05):
Finding that people are doing things different.
No one's doing the same process the same way.
And I did an interview with Eileen Dabrowski, who worked for Reed Transportation.
She was a professor.
They came and brought her in.
She learned every role, sat in every seat.
They were about the same.
Same.
Well, yeah, same size company that I am today.
She built the training program because she's a teacher and you have to sit in every seat.

(16:29):
And I was so intrigued by her.
Warner purchased them.
So she went to a lot larger, you know, working the training program, finding out most companies don't have a training program.
I want to be the best customer service company because that's all we have to offer in solutions.
And if we're not as good as we need to be, it's going to be harder for us to retain business, to get business.

(16:51):
So ultimately, Eileen did leave her company, and she's a consultant now.
So we brought her on to work with someone in my company that's worked in almost all the roles and train the trainer.
And she helped us put the program together because this is what she's done.
I want to say most companies, to your point, don't think that it's that important.

(17:11):
It's probably the most important investment you will ever do because you will never better than anyone else if you're not focusing on your people and giving them what they need.
Plus to move up to different levels, move around in the company.
I can't tell you how many times I get asked, what is the career path here?
And I'm.
I'm sitting here thinking, well, I can talk about it, but we don't have a true program in place.

(17:32):
So that's the other part of it, because we're out of size, being at that hundred million, I want to get to 300 million.
I'm not going to get there if we don't train the people and make sure they're as good as they can be.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, I look at it as, you know, most people think that the hard part is getting a customer, for example, but I'm like, it's two different sales at that point, right?
When you're going in there, you know, onboarding somebody and growing with them are two vastly different strategies.
So it's like, I, like, I love what you're doing with this because we need more and more of that, like, inside of my organization.

(18:05):
Like, that's something that we've invested heavily in early on as we're building.
Right.
Because, like, shocking to some, when you start a business, you don't just like, are rolling in with opportunities.
Right.
It takes a long time.
So we took that early stages to build out our training, build out our systems because, like, ultimately, like, again, we're not looking to sell, but like, that's where the value is in a company is your systems and processes.

(18:27):
Right?
Like, yeah, your product matters at the end of the day, but your ability for somebody to come in and then plug and play that information, there's so much value there.
And it's like, again, how much better can you get?
Right?
Like, I'm never going to be good in business.
Like I was saying, I'm always looking to get better.
That's why I'm at this show.
Most importantly, where can I improve?
What more about this industry can I learn?
How can I take that and bring that down to my customers?

(18:48):
Because at the end of the day, that's who I'm here to service.
And if there's a different way out there that I can do, that's going to help them stay in business.
That's what I'm all about.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, not only that.
So, like, we have, unfortunately, three different systems for three different modes, and that's something we're going to be talking about next year.
But you get into a system and you've been using it for years.
Right?
Again, I already mentioned you find out everyone's doing a process differently, but what other efficiencies can we find that we don't know about it?

(19:17):
And that's part of it, too, making sure that we can become more efficient in what we're doing, asking those questions to everyone that's on the floor.
Because as we continue to grow, you have to find the efficiencies and we have these systems.
You pay a lot of money and I guarantee you we're using like this little piece of it.
So that's also part of the process too.
Not just the people, but how are you using it?

(19:39):
Because what you find with people that have been doing it for a long time, they don't typically like change.
And it's, you know, well, we've always done it this way.
Well, that way is going to take so much longer that we'll never be able to get to the next level without having to hire more and more people.
So again, that part of training too is important in understanding how to use systems better for efficiency.

(20:00):
And again, you know, we all be able to sell this customer service.
And when you put people in roles without even knowing, if you think about it, you promote someone to a manager, but they might not have never been a manager, but how do they know to manage if they don't get the coaching and the mentoring and the training of what that means or even how to do a review.
Like, I've never been trained on any of this.

(20:21):
I just had to like figure it out.
So.
So I'm also part of the training and so is my coo.
We're actually going to be going through this training too so that we can better ourselves and have a better understanding of how we can get better too.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
I love it.
Christy, I don't want to end this conversation but we, I have to cut this off but you know, you said it there that the biggest death blow I think most organizations is this is how we've always done things and you're not going to look at ways outside of that.
But we're going to.
I'll have you back on here at a later day.
We got to.
I appreciate you joining me here today though, Christy.
Thank you so much.
How does anybody reach out to you guys to find out?

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Absolutely.
We are on LinkedIn knishlogistics.com I'm on LinkedIn.
Christie Knishel.
So check us out.
We have a website as well.
So just find me and I'll definitely reach out to you.
So perfect.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Christy, thank you so much.
If you guys can't find Christy or her team on social media, hit me up.
I'd glad to put you guys in contact with them.
I appreciate you guys.
I love you guys and we'll be talking to you soon.
What is up ladies and gentlemen?
We are back.
We are live.
It's the free coach podcast at IANA here and I got my friend Gary with Inform software and we're going to break down a bunch of stuff.

(21:30):
I know AI is the thing everywhere but These guys are like the pioneer of AI out there.
So Gary, thank you so much for taking the time.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
So Gary, how did you get your start in transportation?
What brought you into this industry?

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Oh, well, so I've been in the industry about 25 years actually.
Started out with AP Moersk, literally working on docs and open pilot for sort of worked my way up, got into the automation space with the terminal we opened in Virginia, Portsmouth, Virginia, which was the first automated facility in North America.
Then I joined CSX railroad and was there for about 10 years where I was responsible for implementing all of the new software processes, change management, all those components.

(22:13):
So I just kind of naturally evolved into both being frontline operations as well as change management, software implementation, development, that sort of thing.
So.
And now I'm with inform, which is.
It's been a lot of fun with the company now for about four months.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
So what is inform?
Like kind of just bring us up to speed on that because again, like all the research that I've done, it is like you guys have essentially been pioneering tech inside of multiple industries here for a long time.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah, actually it's kind of neat because Inform's been around since 1969, 1200 employees, globally based in Aachen, Germany and it evolved out of a university in Aachen.
The founders got into what was then called operations research and that sort of thing.
And it sort of progressed over time into what's become a pretty natural fit.

(23:07):
Right.
So the AI craze and revolution is.
It's not really a revolution for us.
It's kind of, we're.
We're slotting in pretty well in the.
What people are thinking about how transportation.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Is going to work with inside of the intermodal and drage space.
What is it like?
Because there's been a lot of automation inside of warehousing for a while now.
Where is this kind of evolved here over these last couple of years?

Speaker 4 (23:31):
It's kind of had an interesting road.
You know, I came from both marine and rail backgrounds, so I've been exposed to both.
It's really, you know, kind of, how do you say it?
It has not really evolved as far as we've wanted it to.
Since I got into the space, you know, 15 years ago, we all expected it would be much further along.

(23:54):
It tends to be a very large industry, both in marine and intermodal that's slow to change.
Everybody comes to great places like Guyana and talks about, you know, change in the future and things like that.
But in terms of actually Implementing technologies and advancements and automation.
It's been a little slow, but it's picking up.

(24:16):
And part of the reason it's picking up is that the barriers to entry are coming down.
Yeah, right.
You start to buy an automated gate system and it cost 3, 4 million dollars each.
Now you know, a smaller facility, a non railroad can start getting into that space in a much more affordable way.
And that's really where inform is starting to focus a lot of our energy.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
So you guys are going out there and are you guys attacking a product for all size warehousing operations out there then?

Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, actually we already have existing systems that are implemented mostly in Europe for the distribution and warehousing side.
We have multiple optimization modules that have been implemented in North America on the marine side.
And we've been working with a large class one on optimizing and automating their inner mobile yards and soon to be multiple.

(25:09):
So the suite is really looking to now get into that space where the barriers of entry have been very high.
So your average smaller to medium sized distribution center, chassis yard, intermodal ramp, you know, whatever you don't want to.
You see dozens of them everywhere.
There really hasn't been a viable solution for them to jump into the technology world.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, how do you guys fight the we don't need this product, we don't need automation.
You know, because like I think inevitably like with where we're at, Gary, there's a lot of the traditionalists who've been in this industry forever.
This is the way we've always done things.
And you know, for me as somebody who is out there, I'm trying to balance that old school methodology with new school tools.

(25:56):
Right.
Because as a bootstrap founder inside of my transportation company, we're always looking to do more with less.
Right.
Like we don't have VC money, we don't have PE behind us.
It's all $in, $out.
So we're approaching a lot of this is, it's like how do we get $5 of ROI for every $1 of investment out there?
So is that the real hurdle that you guys are facing?

(26:17):
You think of the ones who are like, we don't want this, we want nothing to do with this is a fad.
Or are you seeing a lot of people who are like, hey, we know this is real.
How do you, how do we implement this and how do we start?

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah, it's actually really interesting you bring that up.
That's really the change management piece of it.
Yeah.
You know, having started on the waterfront, you know, quarter of a century ago, I've encountered a lot of the folks who are, you know, we don't need that where this is how we have always done things.
And I think there's really two things that are coming along.
One, like I had mentioned, barriers of entry are coming down.

(26:51):
The cost of actually having technologies coming down.
And, but I think moreover, the industry as a whole is evolving and if you aren't going to get into some technology space, you're going to get left behind.
And I think even the most die hard holdouts are starting to realize that.
They're starting to really look at their operations, look at their sort of suite of what they're doing and saying, okay, well maybe we can't do this on paper anymore because the other guy or girl is.

(27:19):
And they're kicking her butt.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
And then you start to work in things like security, safety, the expectations of a modern intermodal or transportation ramp and it really becomes an essential.
Yeah.
To start to.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah.
I just look at it, you know, safety, security, accuracy, all of those things come top of mind because it's like, you know, obviously there's competition in every single space out there and it's like, you know, what is your real differentiator?
And I look at it now with you know, cargo theft being a seemingly billion dollar a year plus industry that's out there, and I hate to use the term industry, but it's very lucrative right now, right?

Speaker 4 (27:56):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
And I feel like, you know, at some point the cargo owners are going to push back.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Like they're going to need more steps, they're going to need to know where is our product, where is it located.
Do you think like technology is only going to make it more and more accurate to pinpoint this stuff or is it going to.
Are we still a ways away or is it still kind of too broad right now?

Speaker 4 (28:18):
No, I mean technology is absolutely essential to begin to combat this.
And the epidemic is huge of cargo theft.
And actually watching the presentation yesterday morning and you don't realize it, but a lot of this stuff is organized.
I mean it's all organized crime.
They're hitting trains, they're hitting trucks, like systematically.

(28:42):
Right.
And sometimes the driver doesn't even know it's happening.
So when you're up against an industry, as you said, you're.
We're going to have to more and more combat it with, you know, security things like cameras, LPRs, OCRs, really having tighter Control on inventory, understanding where everything is.
It I can't imagine in five years you're going to be able to just drive onto a ramp, grab whatever container you want and drive off.

(29:08):
Which is actually how it happens even in some of the larger intermodal hubs.
Yeah, there's very little preventing it.
So unless we start to fight fire with fire, we really get some technology in there.
It's, it's going to be a losing battle.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
How are you using your experience, your broad experience out there, you know, to help evolve your guys current product offering?

Speaker 4 (29:31):
So it's actually interesting.
In one of my former roles I was a primary consultant for the railroad that was implementing it before I worked there.
And so just taking a lot of my own personal experience, having the right team and you know, having learned a lot of lessons along the way, that's really where we're taking the info on production.

(29:54):
And it's really more about refinement.
Right.
We have a lot of really smart, talented folks that you sprinkle in.
A little bit of hands on experience and magic happens.
So again it's evolution, not revolution.
And that is turning into something quite big.

(30:14):
Which was 10 years ago.
Pretty novel.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
What are some of the biggest like successes of use cases of your guys's product out there where you know, again it's that rep, like you said, it's that it's almost like a revelation of like we never thought about like this side of our business.
Have you guys been experiencing that after implementation?

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know one specific example again with the big Class 1 railroad in North America.
I think they came looking for software and had the general kind of we need it needs to be quote optimized.
And nobody really had any idea what that meant.
They just knew they needed some kind of system.
And as we worked together and we did the workshops, we did all the specking, we did all of the development.

(31:00):
What ended up happening was the inform software ends up essentially running the entire inside of the terminal.
All the truck traffic flows.
Queuing, queuing is a big deal when you're getting into to grounded facilities.
So we're using that integrated with a number of other technologies so that trucks are getting called directly to their transfer spot.

(31:23):
The boxes are usually right in the front or on top.
So those driver turn times which we know are really important, they went from a wheeled operation to a grounded operation with almost minimal impact to the driver turn time and increase the capacity the fuel space the facility by almost double.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
So I knew it was Possible and kind of had to lead folks through that change management, but the end result is just wonderful.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like, so, again, your frontline experience probably was really getting into that.
You knew it was possible.
Right.
So it was like, how was that?
Like, after seeing that come to fruition, where you were, you know, able to really kind of pull those parallels into, like, hey, guys, I knew that this was going to happen, but I'm glad we're here right now.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah.
You know, I always swear I'll never do it again.
It's so hard.
It's a lot of work.
Anybody that says that they can open an automated facility, introduce that level of technology and optimization, and it's going to be easy peasy.
It's just they've never done it before.
Right.
So there's a little bit of ptsd, there's a little bit of, you know, I'm never doing that again.

(32:30):
And then.
But then you can kick back at some point and go, that was pretty cool.
And I'm really proud of how all that came together, not just with us, but with the other suppliers.
And then providing that product to the customer, really fun stuff.
So it hooks you and brings you back in and then you do it again and again.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
So, like, what do you think?
We're going to come to a point where the majority of these facilities will be fully automated and then the consumerism aspect of it, where people.
Because again, like, I look at it, Gary, where people are never going to want to be like, hey, you know what?
I want my product to get to me in four days now instead of two.
Do you think that we're going to come to a point where the landscape of the supply chain is going to look vastly different in the next five to 10 years, where roles are going to go away or are roles just going to evolve in their current landscape?

Speaker 4 (33:23):
I'm a bigger believer in evolution.
Yeah.
I'd say back when I was with Maersk and were doing the project Virginia, 20 years ago, we all were convinced that the world was going to be automated in 10 years.
And here we are 18 years later, and there's pockets of heavy automation where it makes sense.
And I've kind of, over time, begun to be more of the mindset of automation can mean a lot of things.

(33:49):
Right.
So automation for a small ramp could be something as simple as an operating system or a camera at a game.
Technically, that's automation.
Are they all going to look like lbct?
No, I don't.
I don't think that's really there's.
No business case for it.
And, and you know, it's very expensive, but it has a very particular area when it comes to people.

(34:13):
We all know the employee landscape is changing.
Yeah, that's just reality.
And everybody has on their mind.
You know, AI is going to replace people.
And I'm not really a believer in that.
I think AI and technology and automation are going to begin to augment people and enable them.
And, you know, always talking about automation and then we get into union discussions and trying to offset jobs.

(34:37):
No, really, we're not.
I'd say the biggest thing that we try to focus on is a reduction of dependency on employees.
Yeah.
So if you can't get people to do the job or people are out sick or there's a pandemic.
I hate to make light of anything that came out of COVID but were running a terminal in Florida with literally 10 people.

(35:02):
It wasn't pretty always, but because of the level of automation we have, were able to sustain that supply chain.
So I think I'll be long retired before it's all automated.
But again, as the prices come down and the demands of the industry come up, you're going to see more and more of it.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
No, I agree with that.
I think there's going to be a lot of.
I look at it like this, Gary.
With automation, if you're a good employee and you work hard and you do all the things that everybody likes to think that they do, I think you're going to be fine.
Automation is just going to amplify your abilities and your capabilities.
Now look at it from a competition standpoint as well out there where it's like, you know, if you're running your operation, your ability to execute your customers freight at a high level is the expectation.

(35:47):
How do you get a little bit better?
Right.
Because again, inside of transportation, there's tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of competitors out there all vying for the same cargo that's out there.
What are those things that are going to move the needle to make your customers want to give more business to you or how, you know, again, people call in, people get days off, all of that stuff.

(36:09):
But I just look at it as, it's like this is the where.
Where things are.
And I look at it from an improvement standpoint.
People are always going to want their stuff faster.
You can thank Amazon for it.
You know, you don't have to hate me for it.
Thank Amazon for you ordering something and getting something in your house within Four hours at this point, depending on where you're at.
And, you know, I look at a lot of where we are going though, and one thing that kind of comes to my mind, Gary, how are you guys going to fight the inevitable next wave of like, cyber crime that's going to come about this?

(36:38):
How do you guys have that and give to your guys's customers like, hey, we, this is the cyber security, the defenses that we have up to make sure that your operation can be fully automated.
Run 24 7.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting question and it's come up here at IANA a number of times.
How do you create that dependable supply chain where the freight's not going to get pilfered?
And a lot of people have a lot of great ideas in terms of, you know, you wrap the thing in bubble wrap or something.
I mean, there's all sorts of crazy ideas about how we're going to begin to fight the cybercrime and actually pilfering.

(37:18):
So I think it's going to be a multiple kind of phased attack here.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
In cybercrime in particular, it's.
Everybody's kind of looking at each other going, okay, this is great.
How do we protect ourselves from being hacked?
And I know it's been in the media, you know, a lot of the cranes here in the port are built in foreign countries that may or may not be compromised.
Yeah, I mean, I have cranes that I could log into or used to be able to log into from anywhere.

(37:48):
Control.
So there's going to be a lot of money spent.
And unfortunately, I think the big players like the Amazons of the Worlds and the CSXs and the Norfolk Sevens, they're going to have the resources to combat that.
Where we come in and where we're going to assist is bringing that security, bringing that dependability into that smaller space.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
You know, so you're not, I'd say it, you know, you leave a notebook on the table, guy takes it and they have whatever they want.
I mean, that's the reality of what this day and age is.
So we have to make it available to everyone in a reasonable way.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, it's one of those things that I think, like, you know, for me it's like top of mind with a lot of individuals out there.
It's like a kind of a pushback with technology, implementation, AI and stuff like that.
Is, how are you going to protect my data?
Because how many businesses out there have proprietary operations and all of that stuff that's dialed into it and as soon as you automate it, you put that exposure out there, you know, potential exposure, we'll put it to cyber crime and stuff like that.

(38:50):
Because like, I think like cargo theft right now is at an all time high, but it's going to evolve.
Right.
And then again, like there's, it's a faceless crime.
It's not like back in the day where you could just go in and take something.
Right.
Like it's going to be more and more of that.
And then I feel like the more that, you know, you brought up cranes and then, you know, maybe port operations, the more that gets automated.
Can you hack into one of the.

(39:10):
I've seen trucks get hacked before, live demonstrations of it.
It's only a matter of time before that happens.
And it's like, oh, hey, there's that highly expensive container.
Let's go route this out here onto that truck.
Right.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
And that's where it's really going to be coming in.
And you know, obviously people that are more on the, you know, hostile side can cripple operations, destroy supply chains.
So it's a big concern.
It's a very big concern out there.
And obviously with inform and in our experiences across a lot of different industries, airlines, risk and fraud.

(39:43):
We have a department of risk and fraud.
It's really ingrained in us to build in the sort of cyber security and keeping up.
Because once you build a mousetrap, the mice get smarter.
Yeah.
And you know, so it's going to be a continuity.
It will never end.
Yeah.
This is the modern world.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
No, and that's exactly it.
Right.
And I feel like that's another evolution of like, the more automation that comes on, there's going to be other risks that come along with it.
But again, like, this is why choosing the right partner is so valuable.
And you know, for me, like, we have a, like a cyber component to our show out there where, you know, we educate people.
Right.
Like where we have cyber companies come on and be like, hey, this is how you guys should be talking to your vendors and finding out about that stuff.

(40:28):
And that's why it's like, for me, when I see a company like you guys who've been in business since 1969, this is clearly something that you guys have been on the forefront for a very long time now.
So, you know, from my perspective, it brings a lot of comfort out there knowing that established business is in place with that.

(40:50):
So where do you see things kind of evolving though, Gary, as we're kind of wrapping up here, where do you see things evolving over the next five years in regards to whether it be AI or automation?
What, what's something that you think people should be on the lookout for?

Speaker 4 (41:02):
The buzzwords, I think we are still in a very early stage of the industry starting to think about what AI can do.
Everybody loves to talk about it, but as we start to look at where the real world solutions are, you're going to see it emerging more and more into that space.

(41:23):
So our latest product, we're going to be all cloud based, you know, very low touch and we're going to have to be using AI and various systems to support it, make sure it's secure, make sure it's stable, make sure it's very high uptime.
So I think a lot of what you're going to see is going to be in the background and then, you know, of course you'll see new terminals pop up that have the cool whiz bang cranes and do things that are a lot more visible than what's going on in the background.

(41:52):
Background.
But the background's where it's at.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
No, absolutely.
Gary, thank you so much for your time this morning.
How does anybody reach out to you guys to find out more about what you have going on in your form?

Speaker 4 (42:00):
We have a, a booth down here on the floor and then I can be reached at our website and just look us up.
I'm on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Perfect.
Sounds good.
If you guys can't find Gary or inform out there, hit me up.
I will gladly put you guys in direct contact with them, but that is going to be it.
Gary, thank you so much for your time this morning.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Came back with a bank window down yelling out money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm get to the bag hey got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the lane moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger boss hey.

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1290. #TFCP - Behind the Scenes at IANA - Part 1: What’s Next For Intermodal?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}1290. #TFCP - Behind the Scenes at IANA - Part 1: What’s Next For Intermodal?