August 16, 2025 • 33 mins
In this unfiltered Combat Story episode, we go deep with Jason Lilley — Recon Marine, MARSOC Raider, CIA Global Response Staff, and co-creator of Savage Actual. Jason opens up about his path from a turbulent youth to serving in some of the most elite units in the U.S. military, facing the chaos of Iraq and Afghanistan, and building a new life as a creator and veteran advocate.
In this episode:
- From family struggles to joining the Marine Corps
- First Recon, Generation Kill, and the invasion of Iraq
- Intense firefights in Fallujah and Afghanistan
- Life in MARSOC and the CIA’s Global Response Staff
- Losing brothers in combat and to suicide
- Using humor and brotherhood to survive the worst moments
- Creating Savage Actual with Patrick: gaming, military authenticity, and raw veteran stories
🌐 Connect with Jason:
- Savage Actual YouTube: youtube.com/@SavageActual
- Savage Actual Website: savageactual.com
- Jason’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jasonmlilley
- Jason’s Instagram: instagram.com/reconraider79
In this episode, Jason Lilley shares his riveting journey from being a Marine grunt to working for the State Department and CIA. He details his intense experiences during the Iraq invasion, life-altering moments in Fallujah, and the camaraderie formed in the face of danger. Lily also opens up about his struggles with depression and finding purpose post-service, running a YouTube channel and podcast, Savage Actual. Watch as he discusses the highs and lows of military life and his ongoing journey to harness his experiences for a meaningful civilian life.
Timeline
- 00:00 Introduction
- 01:36 Personal Struggles and Joining the Marines
- 04:15 Combat Experiences and Reflections
- 13:48 HelloFresh Sponsorship
- 15:35 More Combat Stories and Reflections
- 18:24 Loss and Brotherhood
- 29:03 Savage Actual and Patrick
- 31:27 Would You Do It Again?
📌 Tags & Keywords:
#MarineCorps #ReconMarine #MARSOC #GenerationKill #CIA #CombatStory #VeteranStories #SpecialOperations #SavageActual #Fallujah #IraqWar #WarriorMindset #MilitaryPodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
My name's Jason Lily.
I was a Marine.
I had a pretty unique last namealready, so I just, I went by.
Lily for the most part, orLily Pat or Lil Hammerer.
So, you know, like the who my picks, uh,starting out I was a grunt infantry guy.
Oh three 11 I was with fifth Marinesthroughout three five, specifically in
(00:32):
Lima Company, which is a Hilo helo unit.
And then, uh, first recon battalion.
Did the whole invasion generationkill, documented on that?
And then, uh.
Right after that went to Fallujah.
So I did two years over there at first,got outta the Marine Corps, took a break,
and ended getting sucked back into theMarines and uh, went into Mar Ssop,
(00:54):
which is the brand new unit at the time.
That stood up in October of oh six,and I got there six months after
that to the West Coast Pendleton.
And then, uh.
I got back out, uh, of Marsoc in 2011.
Worked for the State Department for abouta year and a half, um, and then worked
for the CIA doing the global responseto FTRS for about four and a half years.
(01:18):
I'm working on my captain's license, uh,for fishing here in southwest Florida.
Um, I run a YouTube channel anda podcast called Savage Actual.
Yeah.
Uh, do some tacticaladvising on video games and.
Authenticity of how it looks, kind ofa jack of all trades in a, in a sense.
I was, uh, I'll just be real and Ilove my parents to death, but I, I went
(01:41):
through multiple divorces as a kid.
Um, and by age 14 I'vegone through through three.
Um, and that last onelike really broke me.
And I, I know that pains myparents to hear me say that, but
it just, it's life and it happensespecially in America all the time.
So I got super lost andsuper depressed kind of.
I molded into one thing, um, andpartied a lot and started making
(02:04):
really bad decisions and surroundedmyself with kind of other broken
people that were just as lost.
So I didn't think I was worthyenough of to be friends with guys
that had it together, that were,even though I was a sports guy,
but like, I quit playing baseball.
I quit band.
Um, so I knew, I knew I neededsomething harsh to get me
(02:25):
back up to where I should be.
And.
Somehow ended up in the Marine Corps.
You know, it was, I got reallyturned off by the Army, no offense.
And, uh, it was in Kansas, you know,so it was Fort Riley, that was it.
And, uh, yeah, my, my good friendat the time and we're still friends,
(02:47):
Adam Parks is the one that talkedto me about recon, about Marines
and you kind of put that little.
I deed my head and then hedid not join, but I ended up
obviously falling through with it.
So it was pretty random.
So it was kind of that stoner, laidback, like not very violent guy.
And I just got thrust into thiswhole other realm and that was
(03:08):
a part of me to some degree.
I think we all have that in us.
But yeah, uh, my familysurprisingly handled it pretty well.
Uh, we was very proud,obviously, especially with the
grandfather on, on that one side.
It's my mom's side.
Uh, grandpa Steve.
Yeah, he was, uh, he was asailor, so he did World War
II in the Korean War as well.
(03:29):
He was a Radioman first class Eastsixth when he got out, um, on a
destroyer escort called the USSCrowder, and I'm really starting to
dig into that now, the older I am.
And then, um, my uncle on the sameside, his oldest son, my mom's brother.
Uh, was in the International Guard andstill currently is a pilot as well.
(03:50):
So he's flown for all the big onesand he does business stuff now.
Super into photography.
So I had these two guys thatwere, for whatever reason, it
hit me, uh, pretty special.
And that was a big catalyst.
You know, the patriotism was there andit wasn't over the top, but it was there.
And they, they, I think theyknew the struggles that I
had gone through for sure.
(04:11):
Um, bailed me out of a few of those.
And, you know, I was.
On the brink of a catalystfor a significant change.
So they saw that I, I was really lookingforward to becoming more of a man.
Uh, I mean that in a sense of being ableto channel and harness my own emotions.
(04:31):
'cause I was pretty hyper emotionalinternally, um, to become more
of a man of like follow throughand a man of action, a man of.
Uh, dignity.
A man of, uh, confidence for sure.
Just stepping into that realm of, ofchange, it taught me I have the strength,
(04:52):
I've got the mental fortitude and thenteal fortitude to push through it all.
It taught me.
To really believe in myselfand not fucking quit.
I think it's part of ourculture in most cultures.
Just, just warriors in general.
I mean, you look at every movie andevery story, there's some kind of saving
(05:12):
private Ryan to the bridge of the overthe river, quiet to, you know, there,
there's some tie to some military stories.
So there's that fascination.
You know, especially with Tenetand you know, all the movies out
there, you know, there's so many.
So I think there's that draw to thatwarrior class of human being that's
(05:33):
still alive in all cultures today.
I wouldn't say I thought aboutit too much Premarine Corps
before I joined, but being.
In a profession, knowing that Iwas gonna join into this warrior
class in the O three tribe.
Yeah, I knew it was inevitable.
That was what I'm being trained for.
So, you know, going into it, I wasalready starting to compartmentalize and.
(05:58):
Desensitized that part of me, but it wasalready kind of going that way anyway.
'cause of Rambo platoon, allthe movies that we grew up on.
So, uh, there was that alreadyhappening to some degree.
Our, our realm of fighters was onthe edge of being a psychopath.
There's another way to say.
You have to be, you gotta be a violent,hyper fucking violent human being.
(06:20):
I'm not kissing babies, I'mnot putting undre blues.
I'm there to fucking lob heads off.
That's my fucking job.
That's it.
So you have to becomethat Viking, you know?
But even during off moments, duringthose deployments, you know, just, I
mean, I felt like almost every day waslike a movie, and it was so surreal.
Even though I've been trained for this.
But my training in the grandscheme of things, the duration
(06:42):
of life was very short for this.
How intense of a moment this is.
So, and not just a moment, likelots of them is during the invasion.
You know, nothing up close andpersonal, but definitely shot at
people and definitely hit people.
And it was whatever, to be honest, andto sound callous, but it was whatever.
(07:04):
And then we were such an op tip,it was so high, I had time to like
stop and do like a, b, d, A, youknow, and which is an assessment
of, of, of the damage of the battle.
Um, but Fallujah in oh four.
Specifically the first person Ishot in the face, 15, 20 feet away
(07:26):
looking at me, blinking at me.
I thought he was dead and he wasn't.
I plugged him from a ways away and hewas bleeding out, looking right at me.
I winged him in theshoulder actually to test.
He was still alive 'cause there wasgrenades and weapons everywhere.
And another guy just blew himselfup in half with a grenade,
like 30 feet before that.
So I was moving on to the next set ofguys and uh, I hit him in the shoulder and
(07:48):
he like rolled over and faced myself andthe other guy and had an AK in his hand.
And I, and I wasn't, I'm not superreligious now, and I was quasi then,
but I remember almost saying like,uh, please forgive me, prayer in my
head in a way because I'm looking atthe dude's face on an ACOG and his.
Feeling, feeling the radical.
(08:09):
So, and then, you know, it'slights out, did what I had to do.
Now that I'm 43, things are coming up andnot in a bad way, just more compassion.
So for myself, doing the thingsthat I had to do then, and them,
you know, and I don't have.
Maybe regret it is what it is.
(08:29):
He was gonna do it to meand his chest at that point.
So we, this was in Afghanistan and therewas 10, 11 of us, there was 13 of them
and we've been following them for days.
And I finally picked a spot very closewhere we were living at the time.
And nobody was, was greenlit. Go take these dudes out.
(08:50):
And for those listening, it'salways the enemy in these, in these
countries that get the drop on you.
You know, you're the predominantlywhite outsider for the most part.
You know, in their lands you fuckingstick out and it, they always, you, you're
wearing a uniform, you're an on beaches.
You, they know they can hear you.
They got a network ofpeople calling obviously.
(09:12):
So to get the drop on themis pretty fucking rare.
And they were all asleepand they had one guy.
Uh, as a century, as Fire Watch, andwe moved up within 20 feet of a guy
with lasers walking through a fieldright when the sun was coming up
and he started throwing rocks at us.
He started cursing.
He thought we were dogs, solike he thought we were a pack
(09:33):
of dogs, and he kind of were.
And he had like 10 lasers on hischest and that dude vaporized.
But as soon as we didthat, they all jumped up.
We had an L shape on them,two machine guns, eight of us.
I was the furthest right of that long axisto the l. They all got up and started of
running towards the door and we just lit'em all up and the last guy that I shot
(09:56):
was really close and landed up againstthe wall and heard agonal breathing.
I hit him in the back, inthe chest and the side.
He was dying right there.
So I just, I put him outso that that sticks out.
'cause I knew the dude wason his last couple minutes.
And like the hunter in me waslike super pumped and like,
(10:16):
this is holy fuck, you know?
And none of us got shot.
Like we got them, you know?
It was like a win for the home team atthe time and doing that, you know, it was
just, it was like the right thing to do.
So, um, but he sticks out just 'cause I,I was there in his last moments of life.
Uh, it's, it's like anextreme sport in a sense.
(10:37):
You get addicted to it.
Um, the hunt of it and the,the fear factor that you're
gonna be on the other end too.
So there's no other greater game.
I don't mean great, like everyoneshould strive for that, but
it is the ultimate chess game.
I've always.
Thought about it and in very after everyexperience, you know, I've like replayed
it a hundred times and I've reallychewed on my experiences over times.
(11:00):
Us type of guys tend tobeat ourselves up mentally.
Um, I think that's kind ofwhere the drive comes from.
Um, perfection to some degree.
Um, going through all thistraining and combined exercises and
hoorah fucking America, you know.
(11:20):
You, you think you got it.
You think you know what's up.
You think you, you knowhow it's going to be.
And then Nazare 2003, JessicaLynch's vehicle was blown up
and leaking blood outta the sidewhere they kidnapped her from.
We drove right by it.
Then hearing the first round,snapped by your head, knowing that
rapport and that sound or the roundis coming from another human being.
(11:44):
In a moment in a second,you realize it's fucking on.
And I, for me individually, Iremember being 23 and thinking my age.
I'm like, I don't want to fucking die.
And like it, I was solike, I'm invincible.
And then in a second,literally I'm like, fuck.
Like I haven't.
Done X, Y, and Z, yet,like I'm only fucking 23.
(12:06):
So that human innate encoded, DNA traitof survival kicks in and it's like,
fuck, I'm gonna do everything I can toget the fuck out of this and my boys.
So yeah, it's like, it's likeDMT or a, a trip in a second.
It is just like warfare.
(12:28):
Millennia caves, rock,like fucking holy shit.
I'm in it.
This is.
Another human being thatwants to end me, you know?
So it, it's, uh, it's a very hyper surrealmoment that happens in a very short time.
I think I tapped into a sideof me that was, I don't wanna
say like depressed, but, um.
(12:51):
Very black and white and accepting andkind of the fuck it side of me like,
and that's the young testosteronefield, male thought like burnout.
I'd rather fucking flameout than fizzle out.
So that aggressive kind off road, F1,you know, adrenaline filled mindset,
(13:12):
uh, that helped me, those chemicalshelped me push through it for sure.
It's like you have to, to.
Put your boots on to do your job, tobreathe, and you have to accept today
could be the day, this minute, any minuteif it's so wide open, unknown, and which
is scary, you know, like you think there'sgonna, you're gonna have some control in
(13:35):
this situation if and when it happens.
And potentially to get away from it.
Like, dude, it could happenat any fucking moment.
It could be a goddamn bomb.
Uh, you know, and then you're gone.
It's over in a second.
So.
Yeah, just a quick word from oursponsor, HelloFresh, and we'll
get right back to this episode.
Ho how I love HelloFresh.
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That's hellofresh.com/combat story onezero fm. And now back to this episode.
I remember.
I remember driving throughwhatever fucking town that was
during the invasion in oh three.
That fight, that tick that we got into,I we're surrounded on both sides by
like fuck, well over 60 to a hundredplus two, three story buildings.
(15:54):
We were getting shot onboth sides at every level.
RPGs driving through it,and it was an open Humvee.
We joked that we were in ar, no armorand reconnaissance, and there was
fucking sandbagged under our seat andlike on the windows we had no armor.
I was in a fucking Jeep, you know,basically, and I was driving 'cause I'm
super OCD about my skills and driving.
(16:15):
So I, I made myself a driver.
I remember driving with my M four fullauto shooting at whatever movement
I could see outta my periphery.
Shit's going everywhereand I'm like, got my chin.
On the fucking steering wheel.
I remember trying to climb inmy helmet like a fucking turtle.
I'll never forget it.
Like I'm talking about it now, 43,20 years ago, actually this year.
(16:37):
Um, and just how small I wanted to be.
It was just like, ah, ah, and shit.
Walls were exploding from Mark 19behind us, you know, and it was just.
So fucking surreal, man.
And at the end of that, to bringit back to the question, we made a
left holding this like giant waddymud field, our entire company.
(16:57):
Um, and met up with the rest of Italian,actually we were the last company to
go through and they lit us up last,um, and there was a bunch of tanks.
There was a whole marine unit there.
They've been, had eyes on this village andthey, they've been waiting to go into it.
And knew it was like loaded to the fuckinggills with bad guys and we just like
blasted through the ass on the back end.
(17:17):
Random, wrong turn.
And none of us died and we shouldhave, they dropped piano wire
trying to take out our gunners.
Like they had, it was like a miniFallujah that they, I didn't think they
thought it was gonna go down that day.
So we got to the end, andI'll never forget this.
I just talked about this with BradColbert, some of the other guys.
I remember getting outof the hum Bee and like.
(17:40):
I, I literally thought I wasdead or like in purgatory as me.
'cause my, my ruck had like seven holesin it, like, which was hanging right
behind my seat right in front of thenext guy, or on the side of the vehicle.
Like, insane.
But we were just alllike, we were so happy.
I'll never forget this moment, I cantell you where the sun was sitting.
You know, we were hugging andlaughing like children, you
know, like, holy fuck me, just.
(18:01):
Oh my God.
It was like hugs and highfives, like, and all of her hum.
Bees were still running no flat tires.
And the amount of roundswe took was fucking insane.
So, and it wasn't like at a distance.
I mean, we could see them in likethe doorways and windows and shit.
Like it was fucking crazy.
Uh, give me pumped up, man.
Dang.
(18:21):
Hey, what a story.
Yeah.
So how many friends or fellow marines didyou lose outta training combat or suicide?
Fuck.
Um, I say well over 20, 25 guys,at least probably more of guys I
haven't talked to in a long time.
(18:42):
And they've already passed.
It's, it's weird 'cause I, Iwasn't like uber close to this guy.
Um.
Close enough.
We were teammates in G-R-S-C-I-A.
He was an army ranger, a Green Beret,and his call sign was creature.
Um, and he was a creature, had a littlebit of a lisp and he talked a little
(19:03):
weird, uh, but I remember fucking aroundwith him and some other guys with a robot.
We had this kinda like.
Fat Green Beret that we used to fuckwith and he ate like way too much candy.
So we'd take his ammunition out ofhis fucking shit right before Mission.
We'd stuff it with Snickers and fuckingcan candy bars and he'd come back.
(19:23):
So pissed off.
So he was like playing video games oneday and we got one of the EOD robots
and grabbed a box of fucking candy andhe was like sitting in his underwear.
It was super weird at thissite, you know, at this station.
And I was playing video games.
And we come in, there's a mic on it.
We're like talking shit.
We drop all this fatfood like at his feet.
He was so pissed off.
(19:43):
So, but I was doing that withthis guy and his name's Creature.
Him and I were sitting next to each otherlaughing while we were doing this, and
I knew he was marrying, he had kids.
And I just found out in the last two,three years that he took his own life.
He had like six or seven kids.
And because I just rememberhis smile and I remember.
His energy and his unique quirkiness,you know, and I just never thought,
(20:09):
you know, I guess you never do.
And that brings up anotherone too, if you don't mind.
The same deployment potentially.
Um, but the same site in NorthernIraq and current Stan, uh, there
was this, um, he wasn't a mobileguy, he was a site security guy.
Um, that protects the base.
And I wouldn't say the call sign ofthe project, but he was a Hispanic
(20:31):
guy, uh, and his call sign was cross.
He had this giant cross in hisback and he was a fucking dick.
You know, I didn't likehim at all, uh, at first.
Um, but I found out he was a marine.
He was agro.
He, he'd seen a lot of fucking shit.
So, and looking back, I couldtell how he handled a lot of that.
So he was just a fucking, Ithink it's like a machismo
potentially in the culture too.
(20:52):
Like he just held it all in.
And, uh, we played volleyball a fuckinglot at that time for on our op time,
you know, we're stuck on this baseand, uh, I remember we were supposed
to have like this big game the nextday between us and some other guys.
Maybe a bunch of cos too.
It was cool, like a little family.
And, uh.
I remember coming up the stairs.
(21:12):
The second floor is where weall stayed, where we lived,
and it was dark that night.
It was like 10 o'clock at night.
11 o'clock at night.
I was the next hallway.
He was the one right upat the end of the stairs.
I caught him going into his door.
I was like, Hey, cross, like we stillon for fucking volleyball tomorrow?
And he's like, yeah, bro.
I absolutely goes in, shuts the door.
I go down my hallway, go to sleep.
(21:33):
I wake up to radio chatter five hourslater because we all had our radios on.
Handhelds right next to us, uh, wokeme up like, fuck, gotta take a piss.
I walked back that same way.
There was a group of dudes standingoutside of his door, like, what's up guys?
Went to the bathroom, cameback, like, what's going on?
They're like, and he didn't hear.
You it.
(21:54):
And I'm like, nah man, what's up?
They like crossed fucking shot himself.
So I was potentially the last person tosee him in the flesh and he on FaceTime or
Skype in front of his wife, shot himself.
And then that was like the firstweek or two that I was there.
So I had like three more months thereand I walked by that fucking room
and left the light on every time.
(22:16):
I didn't wanna shut the light,I didn't wanna walk in there.
It's weird 'cause like death islike whatever to me, but like, but
it bothered me like, fuck dude.
Like I was, we wereall, she's not worth it.
Whatever your drama is, man is worth it.
So, uh.
Yeah, and it is startingto happen a lot more.
(22:37):
We're so
like made by fire and stealand pain on loneliness.
Like you, you kind of know that thisguy put a lot of skin in the game during
that title one and then potentially wentoverseas and saw a lot of the same shit.
So, and I've noticed with friends thatI have that through mutual stories have
(22:59):
seen comparable, if not more combat.
Um, and obviously with through throughthat, like the true human in you comes
out, you show cracks of, I like tofish, I like to listen to this music.
Or a guy talks about his girl or hiskids, you know, and it's like you see
this side of this compassion side of thisguy outside of a dude that you don't ever
want to meet in a fucking dark alley.
(23:21):
So you see the whole picture.
So.
It's hyper forged in this, you know,that's why like you, you see like
survivors of like avalanches that we'reall there together or pretty cataclysmic
events it like in a very short time,it, it, it fuses people together.
So through that adversity, I think you,that bond just becomes steeper, you
(23:45):
know, you know, I look up to him, youknow, he is equals and if not more.
So it's, uh, it's, it's deeperthan, it's almost ineffable to lay.
It's definitely a feeling.
It's safety, it's a, afamily is a, a good word.
Definitely a family.
Um, we have a lot in common andlike I, I, I get them and I really
(24:05):
try to understand more about them.
If they say something on the phoneor whatnot, or they're having a bad
day, like, oh fuck, dude, I get it.
I get it.
That is what you're signing up for.
You're here to play ball.
It sounds super callous, butyou to to compartmentalize it,
to help you accept it more.
Like that is the job you're gettinginto and that is the byproduct of you're
(24:26):
gonna get zinged once and maybe not livethrough it, but you're definitely gonna
be throwing rounds back the other way.
And that's part of the game.
You're gonna get hit.
It's like a box.
You're gonna get hit, you're gonna.
Stuck by knife.
You know, it's, you have to acceptthat, that you're not invincible.
You're not.
Just a quick word for myself beforewe dive back into this combat story.
Many of you know our previous interviewswith AJ Chui, Marine Sniper Recon
(24:50):
operator, and the man who tracked,hunted and ultimately eliminated
Iraq's Deadliest Sniper Juba.
This was an enemy responsiblefor deaths of over a hundred
Americans, some say up to 140.
Many of which werefilmed and posted online.
Aj, who was just a very humble, very youngMarine at the time, took that fateful
shot, put an end to so much pain for somany families, never took credit for it.
(25:15):
And over the years, that story'schanged and been retold countless times.
I'm incredibly proud to let you knowthat you can get your hands on AJ's
new book, dark Horse Harnessing HiddenPotential In War In Life, a book I asked
him to write after I interviewed himimmediately after I interviewed him.
It's part memoir, part roadmap, a look atthe lessons AJ learned through combat and
(25:37):
throughout his career and how they canhelp all of us find strength and purpose.
If you enjoy combat story,you're going to love this book.
To get a copy, head tocombat story.com/darkhorse.
That's combat story.com/darkhorse.
It's packed with details and insights thatwe never got to cover in our interviews,
and I know you're going to love it.
(25:59):
Now, back to this combat story.
We have such a serious job.
The take under life is, is very serious.
And I'm not talking about the othermoss branches and jobs, but the
fighting realm is, that's our job.
So it's a very serious job, but wefuck off a lot and we are come out
(26:21):
of it like amateur comedians, so,and some guys are insanely funny.
So like the funnest parts werejust fucking laughing and like the
worst situations, you know, likethose are some of the moments,
you know, we were just, just.
Bonding in those moments tho.
Those were pretty awesome.
You know, I remember I was a jokester,you know, so I remember doing, I'm
(26:47):
not, I should actually say this.
Uh, I was, I'll say it, fuck.
But I was 23 and 24, and I rememberwe came back from the shooting range.
It was at night.
We're in the back of a seven ton or fiveton, I think seven ton big vehicle open.
Thing in the back that stuffedeveryone in the back of this
truck bed for the most part.
So there's like 20 guysback there, all our weapons.
(27:09):
And I remember, I'll just fucking sayit just to make everyone laugh 'cause
it was like a really shitty day.
I tucked my junk in between my legs anddeep pants myself and had a guy put a
light on my, I started dancing to makeeveryone laugh and everyone was dying.
We, we veterans have this dark senseof humor and you have to, and it's
(27:32):
a lot like nurses or EMTs or cops.
'cause you see the worst in us.
You know?
It's an ultimate failureto communicate when you're.
Lugging each other's heads off.
You know, it's a breakdownof communication and you've
exhausted all means to get along.
So in that environment, you know, youhave to have humor to to, to deal with it.
(27:53):
And you gotta balance it on the other end.
I think it just naturallykind of happens that way.
So that bond is any kind of veterans.
We were joking, you know, earlier aboutcrayons and Marines, eating crayons.
You know, it's like I laugh about it,you know, it's, we all talk a lot of
shit on each other, but it's, it's like,it's, it's kind of to gauge the other
(28:13):
guy and it's also you has to poke fun onand it is funny, but it's also release
some steam and it's a good way to bond.
And it's just the way it happens tomake it deeper and more personal.
Um, I. And again, not tryingto make this sound depressing,
but I self isolate a lot.
Um, and I don't like super cliche, Idon't like large crowds, like my level
(28:36):
of mistrust from before my fellowman is through the fucking roof.
And especially we're oversaturated with onthe news and news, news, killing, killing,
killing, and killing, you know, randomdrive by a gas station getting mugged.
You know, it's like, dude, my level formistrust is fucking high in my fellow man.
But that's where I really hyper trust.
(28:56):
The guys I served with and guysthat have done similar jobs, so,
which makes that bond even more.
Can you describe who Patrick is?
Yeah.
Patrick is a mouthy New Yorker.
Who gave up on the MarineCorps and joined the Navy.
(29:17):
Um,
I have to start out talking shit.
So Patrick is, uh, a little olderthan me and he is my cohost.
Uh, I would say he is my friend first.
We don't ever talk about that.
I think that's like the, thealmost a professional job at us.
We butt heads a lot, but he'smy co-host and, uh, right
(29:39):
hand man to Savage actual, um.
When I first met him working forGor as an instructor, he was my
instructor that I basically shadowedand you gotta watch how I, I reacted
to students and whatnot as cadre.
Um, so I met him there and then hecalled me one day and asked me if I
wanted to do this YouTube thing for thisgame ology video game company to react.
(30:03):
It's called Experts react to,uh, call of Duty, basically.
So they wanted two specialforces dudes to react to Call
of Duty, and I'm like, fuck it.
And we did, we had a good time and he'slike, yo, we should cut out a lot of
BS, but we should do this ourselves.
And I was kind of anti, and then like amonth later, you know, I kind of caved
(30:24):
in and started Savage actual with him.
And uh, you know, we've been doingit now for two years, but I've got
to know, uh, 'cause he was stillkinda, I didn't know him that well
and I'm still learning more about him.
Um, he's a really good dudeand he's a really good dad and
he's done a lot of cool shit.
He was, uh, swic, he was a boat guy inNSW, uh, doing a lot of cool stuff, but
(30:46):
he was an 18 adult, was a very high levelthinker on the tactical medicine side.
He was a search and rescue dude forlocal police in, in Southern California.
Um.
You know, he, he's a really good dudeand then he worked for the agency for a
time, so we've got a lot of similarities.
He did start out as a marine, as amachine gunner, and then got out,
ended up going in the Navy and retired.
(31:06):
You know, I respect that a lot.
He did 20 years.
If not more so.
Yeah, he's, so we have that respect andthat, uh, and he talks a lot of shit.
He's a mouthy dude, and I can't get twowords out sometimes, and he cuts me off.
I'm like, fuck, dude.
Like,
but I love the guy.
I do.
(31:27):
At the end of every interview that I doon combat story, I ask people, with all
the pain we've talked about, the losssacrifice, challenges, the family strains,
if they'd go back and do it again.
It's, it's a resounding yes.
Why do you think people who havelost and suffered so much say that
they would go back and do it again?
(31:49):
Well, I'm glad I'm notalone in that number.
Uh, yeah, I definitely do it again.
Um, is, it made so cheesy.
It made me who I am now, andI, I am glad I see the world.
The way I do on a survivalaspect and to protect others.
Um, I learned pretty incredible skillsto protect myself, my, me family
(32:09):
and other people that don't havethat ability to protect themselves.
So it's like that cheap dog.
And I'm not, I don't mean to glorifythat and sound over the top macho,
but I'm glad I went through that.
I, I could, I could do goodin a very chaotic world.
I, I, I often think who I would be rightnow if I hadn't have gone through it,
I, I think I'd be completely different.
(32:31):
Yeah.
Probably brilliant, overweightand probably balding, but, uh,
you know, yeah, do it again.
Um, and I think that's why I thinkit's the brotherhood two and it's,
it is the fun with the highest.
There's lows joking withthe guys just being.
Grossly chill up with fucking humorto fast open out of a, out of a
(32:55):
Hilo in Japan, uh, to, you know,parachuting to becoming a sniper.
You know, becoming a recon arena general.
Being a part of a brand new unit.
Marsoc, like however many guys get tobe there at the very beginning of a
brand new American Special Forces unit.
You know, it's been on the mapnow since finding that purpose.
(33:16):
Whatever it is.
Find your purpose tothat as an individual.
'cause we all are finding that purposeand putting all effort into trying.
I wish.
Yeah, man.
I mean there were so many coolfactors to an all and I think
that's what's addicted to it too.
Um,
yeah, that's the Marine,that's, that's the marines.
(33:39):
Another way to say it.
My name's Jason Lily.
I was a Marine.
I had a pretty unique last namealready, so I just, I went by.
Lily for the most part, orLily Pat or Lil Hammerer.
So, you know, like the who my picks, uh,starting out I was a grunt infantry guy.
Oh three 11 I was with fifth Marinesthroughout three five, specifically in
(00:32):
Lima Company, which is a Hilo helo unit.
And then, uh, first recon battalion.
Did the whole invasion generationkill, documented on that?
And then, uh.
Right after that went to Fallujah.
So I did two years over there at first,got outta the Marine Corps, took a break,
and ended getting sucked back into theMarines and uh, went into Mar Ssop,
(00:54):
which is the brand new unit at the time.
That stood up in October of oh six,and I got there six months after
that to the West Coast Pendleton.
And then, uh.
I got back out, uh, of Marsoc in 2011.
Worked for the State Department for abouta year and a half, um, and then worked
for the CIA doing the global responseto FTRS for about four and a half years.
(01:18):
I'm working on my captain's license, uh,for fishing here in southwest Florida.
Um, I run a YouTube channel anda podcast called Savage Actual.
Yeah.
Uh, do some tacticaladvising on video games and.
Authenticity of how it looks, kind ofa jack of all trades in a, in a sense.
I was, uh, I'll just be real and Ilove my parents to death, but I, I went
(01:41):
through multiple divorces as a kid.
Um, and by age 14 I'vegone through through three.
Um, and that last onelike really broke me.
And I, I know that pains myparents to hear me say that, but
it just, it's life and it happensespecially in America all the time.
So I got super lost andsuper depressed kind of.
I molded into one thing, um, andpartied a lot and started making
(02:04):
really bad decisions and surroundedmyself with kind of other broken
people that were just as lost.
So I didn't think I was worthyenough of to be friends with guys
that had it together, that were,even though I was a sports guy,
but like, I quit playing baseball.
I quit band.
Um, so I knew, I knew I neededsomething harsh to get me
(02:25):
back up to where I should be.
And.
Somehow ended up in the Marine Corps.
You know, it was, I got reallyturned off by the Army, no offense.
And, uh, it was in Kansas, you know,so it was Fort Riley, that was it.
And, uh, yeah, my, my good friendat the time and we're still friends,
(02:47):
Adam Parks is the one that talkedto me about recon, about Marines
and you kind of put that little.
I deed my head and then hedid not join, but I ended up
obviously falling through with it.
So it was pretty random.
So it was kind of that stoner, laidback, like not very violent guy.
And I just got thrust into thiswhole other realm and that was
(03:08):
a part of me to some degree.
I think we all have that in us.
But yeah, uh, my familysurprisingly handled it pretty well.
Uh, we was very proud,obviously, especially with the
grandfather on, on that one side.
It's my mom's side.
Uh, grandpa Steve.
Yeah, he was, uh, he was asailor, so he did World War
II in the Korean War as well.
(03:29):
He was a Radioman first class Eastsixth when he got out, um, on a
destroyer escort called the USSCrowder, and I'm really starting to
dig into that now, the older I am.
And then, um, my uncle on the sameside, his oldest son, my mom's brother.
Uh, was in the International Guard andstill currently is a pilot as well.
(03:50):
So he's flown for all the big onesand he does business stuff now.
Super into photography.
So I had these two guys thatwere, for whatever reason, it
hit me, uh, pretty special.
And that was a big catalyst.
You know, the patriotism was there andit wasn't over the top, but it was there.
And they, they, I think theyknew the struggles that I
had gone through for sure.
(04:11):
Um, bailed me out of a few of those.
And, you know, I was.
On the brink of a catalystfor a significant change.
So they saw that I, I was really lookingforward to becoming more of a man.
Uh, I mean that in a sense of being ableto channel and harness my own emotions.
(04:31):
'cause I was pretty hyper emotionalinternally, um, to become more
of a man of like follow throughand a man of action, a man of.
Uh, dignity.
A man of, uh, confidence for sure.
Just stepping into that realm of, ofchange, it taught me I have the strength,
(04:52):
I've got the mental fortitude and thenteal fortitude to push through it all.
It taught me.
To really believe in myselfand not fucking quit.
I think it's part of ourculture in most cultures.
Just, just warriors in general.
I mean, you look at every movie andevery story, there's some kind of saving
(05:12):
private Ryan to the bridge of the overthe river, quiet to, you know, there,
there's some tie to some military stories.
So there's that fascination.
You know, especially with Tenetand you know, all the movies out
there, you know, there's so many.
So I think there's that draw to thatwarrior class of human being that's
(05:33):
still alive in all cultures today.
I wouldn't say I thought aboutit too much Premarine Corps
before I joined, but being.
In a profession, knowing that Iwas gonna join into this warrior
class in the O three tribe.
Yeah, I knew it was inevitable.
That was what I'm being trained for.
So, you know, going into it, I wasalready starting to compartmentalize and.
(05:58):
Desensitized that part of me, but it wasalready kind of going that way anyway.
'cause of Rambo platoon, allthe movies that we grew up on.
So, uh, there was that alreadyhappening to some degree.
Our, our realm of fighters was onthe edge of being a psychopath.
There's another way to say.
You have to be, you gotta be a violent,hyper fucking violent human being.
(06:20):
I'm not kissing babies, I'mnot putting undre blues.
I'm there to fucking lob heads off.
That's my fucking job.
That's it.
So you have to becomethat Viking, you know?
But even during off moments, duringthose deployments, you know, just, I
mean, I felt like almost every day waslike a movie, and it was so surreal.
Even though I've been trained for this.
But my training in the grandscheme of things, the duration
(06:42):
of life was very short for this.
How intense of a moment this is.
So, and not just a moment, likelots of them is during the invasion.
You know, nothing up close andpersonal, but definitely shot at
people and definitely hit people.
And it was whatever, to be honest, andto sound callous, but it was whatever.
(07:04):
And then we were such an op tip,it was so high, I had time to like
stop and do like a, b, d, A, youknow, and which is an assessment
of, of, of the damage of the battle.
Um, but Fallujah in oh four.
Specifically the first person Ishot in the face, 15, 20 feet away
(07:26):
looking at me, blinking at me.
I thought he was dead and he wasn't.
I plugged him from a ways away and hewas bleeding out, looking right at me.
I winged him in theshoulder actually to test.
He was still alive 'cause there wasgrenades and weapons everywhere.
And another guy just blew himselfup in half with a grenade,
like 30 feet before that.
So I was moving on to the next set ofguys and uh, I hit him in the shoulder and
(07:48):
he like rolled over and faced myself andthe other guy and had an AK in his hand.
And I, and I wasn't, I'm not superreligious now, and I was quasi then,
but I remember almost saying like,uh, please forgive me, prayer in my
head in a way because I'm looking atthe dude's face on an ACOG and his.
Feeling, feeling the radical.
(08:09):
So, and then, you know, it'slights out, did what I had to do.
Now that I'm 43, things are coming up andnot in a bad way, just more compassion.
So for myself, doing the thingsthat I had to do then, and them,
you know, and I don't have.
Maybe regret it is what it is.
(08:29):
He was gonna do it to meand his chest at that point.
So we, this was in Afghanistan and therewas 10, 11 of us, there was 13 of them
and we've been following them for days.
And I finally picked a spot very closewhere we were living at the time.
And nobody was, was greenlit. Go take these dudes out.
(08:50):
And for those listening, it'salways the enemy in these, in these
countries that get the drop on you.
You know, you're the predominantlywhite outsider for the most part.
You know, in their lands you fuckingstick out and it, they always, you, you're
wearing a uniform, you're an on beaches.
You, they know they can hear you.
They got a network ofpeople calling obviously.
(09:12):
So to get the drop on themis pretty fucking rare.
And they were all asleepand they had one guy.
Uh, as a century, as Fire Watch, andwe moved up within 20 feet of a guy
with lasers walking through a fieldright when the sun was coming up
and he started throwing rocks at us.
He started cursing.
He thought we were dogs, solike he thought we were a pack
(09:33):
of dogs, and he kind of were.
And he had like 10 lasers on hischest and that dude vaporized.
But as soon as we didthat, they all jumped up.
We had an L shape on them,two machine guns, eight of us.
I was the furthest right of that long axisto the l. They all got up and started of
running towards the door and we just lit'em all up and the last guy that I shot
(09:56):
was really close and landed up againstthe wall and heard agonal breathing.
I hit him in the back, inthe chest and the side.
He was dying right there.
So I just, I put him outso that that sticks out.
'cause I knew the dude wason his last couple minutes.
And like the hunter in me waslike super pumped and like,
(10:16):
this is holy fuck, you know?
And none of us got shot.
Like we got them, you know?
It was like a win for the home team atthe time and doing that, you know, it was
just, it was like the right thing to do.
So, um, but he sticks out just 'cause I,I was there in his last moments of life.
Uh, it's, it's like anextreme sport in a sense.
(10:37):
You get addicted to it.
Um, the hunt of it and the,the fear factor that you're
gonna be on the other end too.
So there's no other greater game.
I don't mean great, like everyoneshould strive for that, but
it is the ultimate chess game.
I've always.
Thought about it and in very after everyexperience, you know, I've like replayed
it a hundred times and I've reallychewed on my experiences over times.
(11:00):
Us type of guys tend tobeat ourselves up mentally.
Um, I think that's kind ofwhere the drive comes from.
Um, perfection to some degree.
Um, going through all thistraining and combined exercises and
hoorah fucking America, you know.
(11:20):
You, you think you got it.
You think you know what's up.
You think you, you knowhow it's going to be.
And then Nazare 2003, JessicaLynch's vehicle was blown up
and leaking blood outta the sidewhere they kidnapped her from.
We drove right by it.
Then hearing the first round,snapped by your head, knowing that
rapport and that sound or the roundis coming from another human being.
(11:44):
In a moment in a second,you realize it's fucking on.
And I, for me individually, Iremember being 23 and thinking my age.
I'm like, I don't want to fucking die.
And like it, I was solike, I'm invincible.
And then in a second,literally I'm like, fuck.
Like I haven't.
Done X, Y, and Z, yet,like I'm only fucking 23.
(12:06):
So that human innate encoded, DNA traitof survival kicks in and it's like,
fuck, I'm gonna do everything I can toget the fuck out of this and my boys.
So yeah, it's like, it's likeDMT or a, a trip in a second.
It is just like warfare.
(12:28):
Millennia caves, rock,like fucking holy shit.
I'm in it.
This is.
Another human being thatwants to end me, you know?
So it, it's, uh, it's a very hyper surrealmoment that happens in a very short time.
I think I tapped into a sideof me that was, I don't wanna
say like depressed, but, um.
(12:51):
Very black and white and accepting andkind of the fuck it side of me like,
and that's the young testosteronefield, male thought like burnout.
I'd rather fucking flameout than fizzle out.
So that aggressive kind off road, F1,you know, adrenaline filled mindset,
(13:12):
uh, that helped me, those chemicalshelped me push through it for sure.
It's like you have to, to.
Put your boots on to do your job, tobreathe, and you have to accept today
could be the day, this minute, any minuteif it's so wide open, unknown, and which
is scary, you know, like you think there'sgonna, you're gonna have some control in
(13:35):
this situation if and when it happens.
And potentially to get away from it.
Like, dude, it could happenat any fucking moment.
It could be a goddamn bomb.
Uh, you know, and then you're gone.
It's over in a second.
So.
Yeah, just a quick word from oursponsor, HelloFresh, and we'll
get right back to this episode.
Ho how I love HelloFresh.
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to include our meal last night.
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That's hellofresh.com/combat story onezero fm. And now back to this episode.
I remember.
I remember driving throughwhatever fucking town that was
during the invasion in oh three.
That fight, that tick that we got into,I we're surrounded on both sides by
like fuck, well over 60 to a hundredplus two, three story buildings.
(15:54):
We were getting shot onboth sides at every level.
RPGs driving through it,and it was an open Humvee.
We joked that we were in ar, no armorand reconnaissance, and there was
fucking sandbagged under our seat andlike on the windows we had no armor.
I was in a fucking Jeep, you know,basically, and I was driving 'cause I'm
super OCD about my skills and driving.
(16:15):
So I, I made myself a driver.
I remember driving with my M four fullauto shooting at whatever movement
I could see outta my periphery.
Shit's going everywhereand I'm like, got my chin.
On the fucking steering wheel.
I remember trying to climb inmy helmet like a fucking turtle.
I'll never forget it.
Like I'm talking about it now, 43,20 years ago, actually this year.
(16:37):
Um, and just how small I wanted to be.
It was just like, ah, ah, and shit.
Walls were exploding from Mark 19behind us, you know, and it was just.
So fucking surreal, man.
And at the end of that, to bringit back to the question, we made a
left holding this like giant waddymud field, our entire company.
(16:57):
Um, and met up with the rest of Italian,actually we were the last company to
go through and they lit us up last,um, and there was a bunch of tanks.
There was a whole marine unit there.
They've been, had eyes on this village andthey, they've been waiting to go into it.
And knew it was like loaded to the fuckinggills with bad guys and we just like
blasted through the ass on the back end.
(17:17):
Random, wrong turn.
And none of us died and we shouldhave, they dropped piano wire
trying to take out our gunners.
Like they had, it was like a miniFallujah that they, I didn't think they
thought it was gonna go down that day.
So we got to the end, andI'll never forget this.
I just talked about this with BradColbert, some of the other guys.
I remember getting outof the hum Bee and like.
(17:40):
I, I literally thought I wasdead or like in purgatory as me.
'cause my, my ruck had like seven holesin it, like, which was hanging right
behind my seat right in front of thenext guy, or on the side of the vehicle.
Like, insane.
But we were just alllike, we were so happy.
I'll never forget this moment, I cantell you where the sun was sitting.
You know, we were hugging andlaughing like children, you
know, like, holy fuck me, just.
(18:01):
Oh my God.
It was like hugs and highfives, like, and all of her hum.
Bees were still running no flat tires.
And the amount of roundswe took was fucking insane.
So, and it wasn't like at a distance.
I mean, we could see them in likethe doorways and windows and shit.
Like it was fucking crazy.
Uh, give me pumped up, man.
Dang.
(18:21):
Hey, what a story.
Yeah.
So how many friends or fellow marines didyou lose outta training combat or suicide?
Fuck.
Um, I say well over 20, 25 guys,at least probably more of guys I
haven't talked to in a long time.
(18:42):
And they've already passed.
It's, it's weird 'cause I, Iwasn't like uber close to this guy.
Um.
Close enough.
We were teammates in G-R-S-C-I-A.
He was an army ranger, a Green Beret,and his call sign was creature.
Um, and he was a creature, had a littlebit of a lisp and he talked a little
(19:03):
weird, uh, but I remember fucking aroundwith him and some other guys with a robot.
We had this kinda like.
Fat Green Beret that we used to fuckwith and he ate like way too much candy.
So we'd take his ammunition out ofhis fucking shit right before Mission.
We'd stuff it with Snickers and fuckingcan candy bars and he'd come back.
(19:23):
So pissed off.
So he was like playing video games oneday and we got one of the EOD robots
and grabbed a box of fucking candy andhe was like sitting in his underwear.
It was super weird at thissite, you know, at this station.
And I was playing video games.
And we come in, there's a mic on it.
We're like talking shit.
We drop all this fatfood like at his feet.
He was so pissed off.
(19:43):
So, but I was doing that withthis guy and his name's Creature.
Him and I were sitting next to each otherlaughing while we were doing this, and
I knew he was marrying, he had kids.
And I just found out in the last two,three years that he took his own life.
He had like six or seven kids.
And because I just rememberhis smile and I remember.
His energy and his unique quirkiness,you know, and I just never thought,
(20:09):
you know, I guess you never do.
And that brings up anotherone too, if you don't mind.
The same deployment potentially.
Um, but the same site in NorthernIraq and current Stan, uh, there
was this, um, he wasn't a mobileguy, he was a site security guy.
Um, that protects the base.
And I wouldn't say the call sign ofthe project, but he was a Hispanic
(20:31):
guy, uh, and his call sign was cross.
He had this giant cross in hisback and he was a fucking dick.
You know, I didn't likehim at all, uh, at first.
Um, but I found out he was a marine.
He was agro.
He, he'd seen a lot of fucking shit.
So, and looking back, I couldtell how he handled a lot of that.
So he was just a fucking, Ithink it's like a machismo
potentially in the culture too.
(20:52):
Like he just held it all in.
And, uh, we played volleyball a fuckinglot at that time for on our op time,
you know, we're stuck on this baseand, uh, I remember we were supposed
to have like this big game the nextday between us and some other guys.
Maybe a bunch of cos too.
It was cool, like a little family.
And, uh.
I remember coming up the stairs.
(21:12):
The second floor is where weall stayed, where we lived,
and it was dark that night.
It was like 10 o'clock at night.
11 o'clock at night.
I was the next hallway.
He was the one right upat the end of the stairs.
I caught him going into his door.
I was like, Hey, cross, like we stillon for fucking volleyball tomorrow?
And he's like, yeah, bro.
I absolutely goes in, shuts the door.
I go down my hallway, go to sleep.
(21:33):
I wake up to radio chatter five hourslater because we all had our radios on.
Handhelds right next to us, uh, wokeme up like, fuck, gotta take a piss.
I walked back that same way.
There was a group of dudes standingoutside of his door, like, what's up guys?
Went to the bathroom, cameback, like, what's going on?
They're like, and he didn't hear.
You it.
(21:54):
And I'm like, nah man, what's up?
They like crossed fucking shot himself.
So I was potentially the last person tosee him in the flesh and he on FaceTime or
Skype in front of his wife, shot himself.
And then that was like the firstweek or two that I was there.
So I had like three more months thereand I walked by that fucking room
and left the light on every time.
(22:16):
I didn't wanna shut the light,I didn't wanna walk in there.
It's weird 'cause like death islike whatever to me, but like, but
it bothered me like, fuck dude.
Like I was, we wereall, she's not worth it.
Whatever your drama is, man is worth it.
So, uh.
Yeah, and it is startingto happen a lot more.
(22:37):
We're so
like made by fire and stealand pain on loneliness.
Like you, you kind of know that thisguy put a lot of skin in the game during
that title one and then potentially wentoverseas and saw a lot of the same shit.
So, and I've noticed with friends thatI have that through mutual stories have
(22:59):
seen comparable, if not more combat.
Um, and obviously with through throughthat, like the true human in you comes
out, you show cracks of, I like tofish, I like to listen to this music.
Or a guy talks about his girl or hiskids, you know, and it's like you see
this side of this compassion side of thisguy outside of a dude that you don't ever
want to meet in a fucking dark alley.
(23:21):
So you see the whole picture.
So.
It's hyper forged in this, you know,that's why like you, you see like
survivors of like avalanches that we'reall there together or pretty cataclysmic
events it like in a very short time,it, it, it fuses people together.
So through that adversity, I think you,that bond just becomes steeper, you
(23:45):
know, you know, I look up to him, youknow, he is equals and if not more.
So it's, uh, it's, it's deeperthan, it's almost ineffable to lay.
It's definitely a feeling.
It's safety, it's a, afamily is a, a good word.
Definitely a family.
Um, we have a lot in common andlike I, I, I get them and I really
(24:05):
try to understand more about them.
If they say something on the phoneor whatnot, or they're having a bad
day, like, oh fuck, dude, I get it.
I get it.
That is what you're signing up for.
You're here to play ball.
It sounds super callous, butyou to to compartmentalize it,
to help you accept it more.
Like that is the job you're gettinginto and that is the byproduct of you're
(24:26):
gonna get zinged once and maybe not livethrough it, but you're definitely gonna
be throwing rounds back the other way.
And that's part of the game.
You're gonna get hit.
It's like a box.
You're gonna get hit, you're gonna.
Stuck by knife.
You know, it's, you have to acceptthat, that you're not invincible.
You're not.
Just a quick word for myself beforewe dive back into this combat story.
Many of you know our previous interviewswith AJ Chui, Marine Sniper Recon
(24:50):
operator, and the man who tracked,hunted and ultimately eliminated
Iraq's Deadliest Sniper Juba.
This was an enemy responsiblefor deaths of over a hundred
Americans, some say up to 140.
Many of which werefilmed and posted online.
Aj, who was just a very humble, very youngMarine at the time, took that fateful
shot, put an end to so much pain for somany families, never took credit for it.
(25:15):
And over the years, that story'schanged and been retold countless times.
I'm incredibly proud to let you knowthat you can get your hands on AJ's
new book, dark Horse Harnessing HiddenPotential In War In Life, a book I asked
him to write after I interviewed himimmediately after I interviewed him.
It's part memoir, part roadmap, a look atthe lessons AJ learned through combat and
(25:37):
throughout his career and how they canhelp all of us find strength and purpose.
If you enjoy combat story,you're going to love this book.
To get a copy, head tocombat story.com/darkhorse.
That's combat story.com/darkhorse.
It's packed with details and insights thatwe never got to cover in our interviews,
and I know you're going to love it.
(25:59):
Now, back to this combat story.
We have such a serious job.
The take under life is, is very serious.
And I'm not talking about the othermoss branches and jobs, but the
fighting realm is, that's our job.
So it's a very serious job, but wefuck off a lot and we are come out
(26:21):
of it like amateur comedians, so,and some guys are insanely funny.
So like the funnest parts werejust fucking laughing and like the
worst situations, you know, likethose are some of the moments,
you know, we were just, just.
Bonding in those moments tho.
Those were pretty awesome.
You know, I remember I was a jokester,you know, so I remember doing, I'm
(26:47):
not, I should actually say this.
Uh, I was, I'll say it, fuck.
But I was 23 and 24, and I rememberwe came back from the shooting range.
It was at night.
We're in the back of a seven ton or fiveton, I think seven ton big vehicle open.
Thing in the back that stuffedeveryone in the back of this
truck bed for the most part.
So there's like 20 guysback there, all our weapons.
(27:09):
And I remember, I'll just fucking sayit just to make everyone laugh 'cause
it was like a really shitty day.
I tucked my junk in between my legs anddeep pants myself and had a guy put a
light on my, I started dancing to makeeveryone laugh and everyone was dying.
We, we veterans have this dark senseof humor and you have to, and it's
(27:32):
a lot like nurses or EMTs or cops.
'cause you see the worst in us.
You know?
It's an ultimate failureto communicate when you're.
Lugging each other's heads off.
You know, it's a breakdownof communication and you've
exhausted all means to get along.
So in that environment, you know, youhave to have humor to to, to deal with it.
(27:53):
And you gotta balance it on the other end.
I think it just naturallykind of happens that way.
So that bond is any kind of veterans.
We were joking, you know, earlier aboutcrayons and Marines, eating crayons.
You know, it's like I laugh about it,you know, it's, we all talk a lot of
shit on each other, but it's, it's like,it's, it's kind of to gauge the other
(28:13):
guy and it's also you has to poke fun onand it is funny, but it's also release
some steam and it's a good way to bond.
And it's just the way it happens tomake it deeper and more personal.
Um, I. And again, not tryingto make this sound depressing,
but I self isolate a lot.
Um, and I don't like super cliche, Idon't like large crowds, like my level
(28:36):
of mistrust from before my fellowman is through the fucking roof.
And especially we're oversaturated with onthe news and news, news, killing, killing,
killing, and killing, you know, randomdrive by a gas station getting mugged.
You know, it's like, dude, my level formistrust is fucking high in my fellow man.
But that's where I really hyper trust.
(28:56):
The guys I served with and guysthat have done similar jobs, so,
which makes that bond even more.
Can you describe who Patrick is?
Yeah.
Patrick is a mouthy New Yorker.
Who gave up on the MarineCorps and joined the Navy.
(29:17):
Um,
I have to start out talking shit.
So Patrick is, uh, a little olderthan me and he is my cohost.
Uh, I would say he is my friend first.
We don't ever talk about that.
I think that's like the, thealmost a professional job at us.
We butt heads a lot, but he'smy co-host and, uh, right
(29:39):
hand man to Savage actual, um.
When I first met him working forGor as an instructor, he was my
instructor that I basically shadowedand you gotta watch how I, I reacted
to students and whatnot as cadre.
Um, so I met him there and then hecalled me one day and asked me if I
wanted to do this YouTube thing for thisgame ology video game company to react.
(30:03):
It's called Experts react to,uh, call of Duty, basically.
So they wanted two specialforces dudes to react to Call
of Duty, and I'm like, fuck it.
And we did, we had a good time and he'slike, yo, we should cut out a lot of
BS, but we should do this ourselves.
And I was kind of anti, and then like amonth later, you know, I kind of caved
(30:24):
in and started Savage actual with him.
And uh, you know, we've been doingit now for two years, but I've got
to know, uh, 'cause he was stillkinda, I didn't know him that well
and I'm still learning more about him.
Um, he's a really good dudeand he's a really good dad and
he's done a lot of cool shit.
He was, uh, swic, he was a boat guy inNSW, uh, doing a lot of cool stuff, but
(30:46):
he was an 18 adult, was a very high levelthinker on the tactical medicine side.
He was a search and rescue dude forlocal police in, in Southern California.
Um.
You know, he, he's a really good dudeand then he worked for the agency for a
time, so we've got a lot of similarities.
He did start out as a marine, as amachine gunner, and then got out,
ended up going in the Navy and retired.
(31:06):
You know, I respect that a lot.
He did 20 years.
If not more so.
Yeah, he's, so we have that respect andthat, uh, and he talks a lot of shit.
He's a mouthy dude, and I can't get twowords out sometimes, and he cuts me off.
I'm like, fuck, dude.
Like,
but I love the guy.
I do.
(31:27):
At the end of every interview that I doon combat story, I ask people, with all
the pain we've talked about, the losssacrifice, challenges, the family strains,
if they'd go back and do it again.
It's, it's a resounding yes.
Why do you think people who havelost and suffered so much say that
they would go back and do it again?
(31:49):
Well, I'm glad I'm notalone in that number.
Uh, yeah, I definitely do it again.
Um, is, it made so cheesy.
It made me who I am now, andI, I am glad I see the world.
The way I do on a survivalaspect and to protect others.
Um, I learned pretty incredible skillsto protect myself, my, me family
(32:09):
and other people that don't havethat ability to protect themselves.
So it's like that cheap dog.
And I'm not, I don't mean to glorifythat and sound over the top macho,
but I'm glad I went through that.
I, I could, I could do goodin a very chaotic world.
I, I, I often think who I would be rightnow if I hadn't have gone through it,
I, I think I'd be completely different.
(32:31):
Yeah.
Probably brilliant, overweightand probably balding, but, uh,
you know, yeah, do it again.
Um, and I think that's why I thinkit's the brotherhood two and it's,
it is the fun with the highest.
There's lows joking withthe guys just being.
Grossly chill up with fucking humorto fast open out of a, out of a
(32:55):
Hilo in Japan, uh, to, you know,parachuting to becoming a sniper.
You know, becoming a recon arena general.
Being a part of a brand new unit.
Marsoc, like however many guys get tobe there at the very beginning of a
brand new American Special Forces unit.
You know, it's been on the mapnow since finding that purpose.
(33:16):
Whatever it is.
Find your purpose tothat as an individual.
'cause we all are finding that purposeand putting all effort into trying.
I wish.
Yeah, man.
I mean there were so many coolfactors to an all and I think
that's what's addicted to it too.
Um,
yeah, that's the Marine,that's, that's the marines.
(33:39):
Another way to say it.
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