Inside the Command Post in Pakistan During the Bin Laden Raid | Earthquake Relief | Leadership Lessons | Vice Adm (ret) Mike LeFever - Combat Story

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
We set up a kind of alittle command center there.
So the infamous picture of the WhiteHouse in the sit room, we were on the
other side of that VTC with Bill McRavenin theater in Afghanistan, Panetta,
Langley, and then the White House.
And the ability to pull off that eventin secrecy and under the cover of night,
undetected to the time that the, youknow, helicopter, when the helicopter

(00:24):
settled on the wall and, you know,literally the wheel caught just right
or that thing would have been in flamesand You know, some of the operators
that I do part of the team, uh, quite,quite, quite well, that were a part of
that and how they were able to respondand conduct the different, what they
trained for down in North Carolina.
Welcome to Combat Story.

(00:45):
I'm Ryan Fugitt, and I served war zonetours as an army attack helicopter pilot
and CIA officer over a 15 year career.
I'm fascinated by the experiencesof the elite in combat.
On this show, I interview some ofthe best to understand what combat
felt like on their front lines.
This is Combat Story.
Today's Combat Story is with ourfirst Navy Vice Admiral, Mike

(01:08):
Lefevre, who spent 38 years inuniform supporting the U. S. national
security apparatus across the world.
Rising from an Annapolis wrestler toa surface warfare officer, Mike was
selected to command a strike group.
Would serve at the US Embassy inPakistan as the head military officer
during the Bin Laden raid and finishedhis military career as the Director

(01:28):
of Strategic Operational Planning atNCTC, the National Counter-Terrorism
Center within the office of the DNI.
Mike has gone on to write a book aboutleading through crises titled End
Game First, A leadership strategy forNavigating a Crisis, and since leaving
service has stayed very busy withroles as A CEO for a cyber and tech
company, senior advisor and mentor.

(01:49):
at the McChrystal Group, PerformanceAmbassador and Speaker for Liminal
Collective and Arena Labs, workson the Cypher Brief with our friend
of the show, Glenn Korn, and more.
This is a really insightful anddeep dive discussion with an
incredibly senior, accomplished,yet thoroughly humble leader, and I
hope you enjoy his sense of humor.
Honest talk and experiences at thehighest levels of both global affairs

(02:11):
and military strategy as much as I did
Sir, thank you so much for taking thetime to share your story with us today.
Thanks so much This is going to beawesome ryan looking forward to it.
I'm really looking forward to thisSo we have a mutual connection here
glenn corn who many will know as aas a legend in the cia community 30

(02:32):
years In the government, mainly withthe CIA, but also state and the army.
Um, you two know each other andI thought it might be interesting
for people to hear, like, what'sit, what was it like working with
Glenn or just being around him?
How did y'all meet?
Yeah, glad it's like you said, he'skind of a legend in the, in the
service and just a great American.

(02:53):
Um, he was, uh, he was, uh, with mewhen I was stationed in Islamabad.
Um, from, I was there from eight to11 and, uh, we just had a great time.
Um, the chiefs of station renownedfigures within the agency that later
became the head of ops, uh, FrankArchibald, John Bennett, et cetera.
And others that are just,you know, amazing people.

(03:14):
Uh, Jeff was, uh, the deputy thereand he had in his room a nerf hoop
that he'd always tempt you'd go upto talk to him, but you'd had to
play, you know, a game of horse ormule or whatever the case might be.
And of course he, that's all hedid all day long was sit there at
his desk on his couch, throw it.
So nobody would ever beat him.
I don't even think Glenn did, but, andthat was always a. And we'd always have

(03:37):
these just crazy meetings of opportunitiesand discussing counterterrorism
operations with a Nerf basketballhoop in the background playing ball.
The things you don'tsee in movies, you know?
Yeah, I don't know who wouldplay our parts if they ever
created those types of scenes.

(03:58):
I love it.
Okay.
And then, you know, I mentionedjust before we kicked off, uh, some
people will be listening to this.
Some will be watching for those whoare listening only and can't see.
You've got a very interestingbackdrop, obviously, with a storied
career yourself in the military.
I don't know how you decide whatgoes up on your walls, but I assume
what's up there has significantvalue to you, um, is of significance.

(04:19):
So you've got a really cool framedplaque with looks like an award and
then, uh, an American flag up there.
Not your typical American flag.
What's the meaning here?
Yeah, interesting.
We will get into the, to the, uh, lateron the, uh, the diet, the plaque, it was,
uh, award for an event that I participatedin for the earthquake relief in Pakistan

(04:42):
and it was given an award by then generalMisharf, then president Misharf, uh,
it was award, uh, the highest awardthey've ever given any foreign military.
It was called the Halal Akkadiazm.
It's almost embarrassing to talk about.
It's called the Order of the Great Leaderfor Jenna, the founder of Pakistan,
that, uh, I was awarded for the, um,events that took place that I led the

(05:04):
joint task force for seven months, uh,after this storied earthquake in 2005.
It's quite, quite an honor.
Uh, so that's, that's the, the plaque.
The flag is an interesting one.
I'm, I helped with the stationfoundation, which is a, Foundation out
in Bozeman, Montana that helps joinspecial operators as well as Uh, CIA

(05:27):
folks, um, in reuniting with family,gold star families and the like, and
one of the journeys is in the transitionprogram took, uh, pieces of my uniform.
You shred it up, you blend it, yousoak it, and they put it through this
shredder and then you form this mold.
Interesting.

(05:48):
Your eyes.
And then what happens, they put a stencilover it and painted the American flag.
Um.
So it's, yeah, it's, um, you know,a reminder of where we all came
from, like yourself, an incrediblestoried career, a service and
opportunities of serving your nation.

(06:09):
And then as you transition kind of, thisis a reminder of what it is and what we
serve for and how we honored that oath.
What a special idea.
Yeah.
Yeah, it really is.
And so that's why that has a, youknow, kind of unique, special place.
Jeez, so we'll get into I know we'll diginto more on both fronts here And i'm i'm

(06:32):
going to transition in just a moment tokind of how you grew up and found your
way to the to the service to begin withbut I I just want to I have to ask and we
had kind of exchanged notes on this justas we were preparing but um, I I spent
four years in pakistan as a kid My dadwas the political officer at the embassy
in the early 90s during the gulf war.
We got evacuated out He stayed with theskeleton staff Yeah, but I remember like

(06:55):
Living out in F seven, like going tothe embassy, spending all my days at the
pool at the, at the club there, the crazyMarine Corps detachment and their events.
Um, but, but I have to say, and I wentto Afghanistan actually, um, Christmas
of 2007 and you, I think you justmentioned Oh, eight to 11, you were there.

(07:16):
And obviously Benazir Bhutto getsassassinated in that timeframe.
Um, just like, Arriving therearound that time had to have been
significant and just having beenthere before even it was crazy times.
I was there in five and sixfor the earthquake and then I
say no kind egos unpunished.
I got sent back to be the senior mill repand thought it was a one year assignment

(07:39):
three years later through the bin Ladenraid, which we could talk about as well.
But, uh, that time was just crazy.
The events.
You know, Benazir Bhutto, um, RayDavis incident, the attacks downtown
after Kiani at this compound.
I mean, right outside the general'sgetting murdered in a mosque
right across from his compound.

(08:00):
Um, you know, Ray Davis, binLaden, uh, the horrific floods,
I mean, Pakistan defied all.
Possibility what was going on and and theevents and being there that crazy time
and then the surge in afghanistan thatcaused quite a and so Deconflicting that

(08:21):
controlling some airspace that carterthe the working it was Let alone india
india on one side that takes up its ownOh, yeah Think about the terrorist stuff
that's oh That's ensuing in the FATA.
Now it's, you know, it's biting their,you know, the hand that fed them and

(08:42):
it's, it's a fascinating place and I'mstill involved, which is kind of neat.
I get asked to do, um, be apart of a U. S. delegation for
strategic dialogues and track 1.
5 and two talks.
And so meeting with them and, and havingthese discussions of folks that I served
with over there is, uh, quite an honorand quite, quite, uh, interesting to

(09:03):
hear the reactions and get insights.
Well, if we, if we rolled the cameraback and you were, I don't know, 15,
would you have imagined you'd be here?
Like, was this what you saw coming?
Never at all.
I had a class.
I went to the Naval Academy and we'recoming up, uh, to date myself on a class.

(09:23):
We call it another link in the chain.
And so I'm talking to these candidatesthat are about ready to start
almost 50 years after I started.
And I, here I am standing there as athree star admiral and saying, You know
somebody would have told me, you know,because I think I got the academy I tell
people on a wrestling scholarship, uh,you know, the wrestling coach saw me

(09:43):
and kind of like hey You know, you everthink of the naval academy and I said,
yeah, sure it started filling out formsbefore I knew it I was at the academy.
Oh my gosh.
Someone would have told me that.
Hey, you're gonna be a surface warfareofficer You know in charge of ships
and people and then you're going totransition to this Crazy world of
counterterrorism counterinsurgencybe 700 miles from saltwater.

(10:06):
There's an admiral in the himalayas uhbriefing the president And then later, you
know in the white house sit rooms with thenational counterterrorism center I'd have
looked at them and said, you, I mean, youneed to take a urinalysis test right now.
You should think about a new, new career.
'cause that expecting unexpectedis kind of the motto of the day.
I mean, it's, I give talks on it.

(10:28):
'cause who would've ever guessed,was it really just wrestling?
Like it wasn't family focused or like, oh,I wanna follow in somebody's footsteps.
Yeah, my dad was, uh, enlisted, um, inhigh school, you know, his high school
graduation is in his sailor uniform,you know, in Pennsylvania, he grew up in
Pennsylvania and, uh, then went and servedin World War II after the war got out,

(10:51):
you know, it was in industry and I hadother relatives that served in the service
in the war, lost a couple uncles in thewar, um, but there wasn't a real strong,
but, um, you know, always attracted me,you know, being able to serve and So it
was quite an honor just out of curiosity.
Let's say that doesn't happen.
The wrestling coach doesn't come along.

(11:13):
What do you think you would have done?
I was looking at other schools and,you know, like you probably at high
school is like, well, this sounds good.
I want to do that.
And I'm going to do the, you know, Ithought I grew up in north, southeast
Pennsylvania and the northeast.
Uh, my dad, I was a popular kid and my dadworked for Hershey's ice cream company.
So we had a free sort of, so after allthe tee ball games, whatever, everybody

(11:36):
had come to my house, but it was like,uh, last near one places was in Bethlehem
near Lehigh university at big engineering.
So I thought, Hey, you know,maybe this is what I wanted to do.
Yeah.
Holy smokes.
And then why surface warfarecoming out of the academy?
Well, you know, it's funny.
Um, I think I've always wanted tobe a pilot, but my eyes went bad and

(11:56):
we didn't have LASIK and stuff then.
Then, uh, I really liked, you know, kindof the, the warfare aspect, whether it
was the seals, whether it was Marines.
And then, uh, I thought,well, geez, my eyes are bad.
I'd probably.
Won't be helpful, youknow, in in the field.
So I kind of said, hey, I always lovedbeing on ships I was an oceanography
meteorology major at the academy and Isaid, hey, this would be fun Want to be

(12:19):
on cruisers and destroyers or you knowships and go to sea and now some of the
things you do today Sir, and there aremany as you you kind of rejoked that
you have failed retirement so far Butsome of them are I think delivering
Insights on leadership and experienceand career growth Maybe and some of
the things we've teed up to talk aboutdon't even touch on your surface warfare

(12:41):
time, you know, so I, I'm curious, whatdo you draw on from the multiple ships
that you were a part of or led that,that you still use today as, as kind of
leadership lessons or you try to pass onor you found were very useful for you?
Yeah, a great question because,you know, we're all fic, we're all.
Process of our experiences, and I've hadsome really unique experiences, you know,

(13:03):
out of the academy and in different jobsin different departments of the ship
to lead to always have an opportunityto grow and increase your skills.
And then had the luxury ofbeing in command and of.
A ship of a squadron of strikegroups and then joint task forces.
I mean, just, you know, incredible luck,but some of the basics, you know, kind

(13:25):
of like, as you know, as your pilot,that crew chief that came in and goes.
Hey, sir, let me take care of you.
Let me teach you how to be a leader.
You can remember that, you know, Ihad a command sergeant major for my
senior enlisted in Pakistan that Ijust love the guy, but, you know,
command master chiefs and chiefs,you know, that helped me shape me.

(13:47):
To be the, uh, leader and officerand, and learning how important it
is taking care of people becausethen everything takes care of itself,
that mission focus, that idea of,uh, and then having great mentors.
I went, I first ship, uh, boththe commanding officer and the
executive officer, the secondin command both went on to be.

(14:08):
Three and four stars, you know, and,and I think, you know, you're shaped
by the leadership you had and youlearn a lot from great leadership.
You also learn from folks that weren'tso great leaders about maybe, Hey,
this is what you don't want to do whenyou're in an opportunity to be able to
have the great honor of leading thesegreat men and women that serve for you.

(14:30):
How long do you spend on surface warfarebefore you, not that it's a career change,
but, you know, kind of going, as you said,700 miles from, um, how long are you doing
that before you kind of make this pivot?
Wow, probably, uh, almost 20 some years.
Um.
The progression, you know, the to getthere and then make flag and then have a

(14:52):
strike group, uh, but during those times,you know, I touched in and out of special
operations because of different events.
I was participated in and friendsand and, um, and the light.
But the surface warfare, it really tookthis, you know, kind of right turn when
I got pulled off by strike group to leadthe earthquake relief effort in Pakistan.

(15:14):
It was kind of crazy.
Why did that happen?
And how does that happen?
Right?
I mean, this is a global kind ofescalation events, um, emergency who,
who calls you and says, Hey, can you juststop what you're doing and come do this?
Yeah, it was funny, you know, workingup for deployment, you know, I had,
uh, I had a unique opportunity.

(15:34):
It was an expeditionary strike group.
So think of it as 5,500 Marines and sailors.
Probably six ships, a couple submarines,an air wing, a marine expeditionary
unit, a support group, and the like.
And so, in rehearsals, we're practicingto go to the CENTCOM Middle East area.
General Abizade was the, um,was the general at the time.

(15:57):
And I'd interact with his staff, youknow, to make sure we were planned for
all the right scenarios that we could do.
We went over, we were part ofa big exercise called bright
star off of Egypt, the largestmultinational exercise in the world.
Marine storm landings.
I'm talking to generalAbbas aid on, on the shore.
I'll never forget the discussion.
He goes, Hey Mike, what doyou think the rest of your

(16:17):
deployment's going to look like?
I go, well.
Well, sir, you know, you'rereally in a shitty neighborhood.
I mean, you talk about Yemen, you talkabout Pakistan, you talk about the
Iraq war that was going on, piracy,you know, humanitarian relief in Sudan.
I said, you know, there, there's plentyof things that I think are going to keep,
keep us occupied to be able to do this.

(16:38):
And he said, and he looked at meand he smiled as we were watching
the Marines do a landing with, uh,with the allied forces on the beach.
Um, And he says, you know what,Mike, you know, it's possible.
You're going to end up doing somethingyou completely never expected.
And I kind of laughed andI go, yeah, sure boss.
When he called me by the boss, youknow, through fifth league commander,

(17:01):
um, Admiral Nichols called and says,Hey Mike, um, you're watching the TV.
And we were going throughthe straights of our moves.
The Iranians were playing their usualgames for ships going through, you
know, kind of harassing the ship.
So you're probably not watchingtv is what you're saying.
Well, this is going on the strikegroup I'm on a flight ship.
And so, you know, I saw someof he says, what do you think

(17:21):
about the earthquake in pakistan?
Well, the initial images were Couplebuildings rumbled in, uh, in Islamabad.
They hadn't gone up in the area.
I said, yeah.
He says, Hey, you know, keep going.
You offload your Marines toFallujah to support General
Casey in the election in 2005.
You know the famous one with the ink?
Yeah.
Ink.
You remember?
Uh, so my Marines are going into Fallujah.

(17:42):
I'm ready to go up andoffload 'em off the ships.
Uh, because they were consideredthe theater reserve force.
I was already doing some stuffup in the in the area of the oil
distribution and piracy and some otherstuff So he says but hey continue
we might use your ships later on.
They said hey great About six hours later.
He called he goes mike, uh, pack yourbags Bring a bring a handful of staff

(18:06):
when you Sail by Bahrain, uh, fly ashore.
We're going to brief you up.
You're going to go lead the earthquakerelief effort, do the assessment, lead
the earthquake relief effort for theU. S. General Abizaid thought you'd be
the right guy to be able to do that.
And the ambassador, RyanCrocker, incredible career.
Incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just kind of said, Hey, this is a greatopportunity to help a friend in need.

(18:29):
And, um, 24 hours, you know, likewithin 48 hours of the earthquake.
Now, you know, in hindsight,it ended up as a 7.
6 shallow earthquake.
80, 000 people died.
178, 000 injured, three and ahalf million people homeless.
It's in the foothills of theHimalayas and the Hindu Kush and I
show up on this airfield that lookedlike something out of Star Wars.

(18:52):
I mean, people from all over trying tohelp try to get up the affected area and
I show up at the embassy the next morning.
And, uh, in an area where, youknow, what are you doing here?
Why, you know, but Ryan Crocker,just amazing, you know, kind of, Hey,
we need you and need your support.
And it grew to a 1500 men and women taskforce, two hospitals, 30, some helicopters

(19:17):
airlift for refueling stations.
Uh, amazing amount of tonnage thatwe did with shutout helicopters
and so forth for seven months.
That was probably personallyand professionally one of the
most rewarding experiences.
I tell people, you know, here I studiedfor urban renewal in a different sense.
Here I am building and restoring.

(19:39):
Houses and homes in this devastated areathat never trained for never expected.
Yeah, so I I land and i'm talking tothe ambassador and my the phone rings
This general happens and he goes.
Hey, mike.
Remember our discussion on the beach Hesays good luck Wow Wow Just a quick word
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(20:02):
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(21:08):
And now back to this combat story.
So amazing experience.
And, and I say, then the kind of thesegoes on, punish my strike group leaves.
Like, and I'm there, I'm extended.
So my deployment lasted almost ayear, uh, cause I was in Pakistan.
I became the face of the U Srelief effort, uh, heading up with

(21:28):
the multiple inter agencies andsupport to be able to provide the
aid and assistance that we did.
Um, and then we pulled out,my ships were already back.
Uh, the Marines and so forth, gotback and then, um, got assigned
to a job in the Pentagon or, youknow, doing personnel management.
And then, uh, I get a call, Iwas about ready to change jobs.

(21:48):
He got a call and goes, Hey, your namecame up in the tank today with the
chairman, he says, where are you going?
I go, I have no idea.
And, um, and a while later hecalls, he goes, pack your bags.
You're going back to Pakistan.
I go, wow.
So, so sir, when you get thecall, Hey, you're, you're here

(22:09):
to do all these other things.
And then, Hey, in a, in a day or two,hop on a plane and come on out to
Bahrain and we're going to completelyswitch from, from your perspective.
I mean, you're talking 5, 500 people,who are you tapping to leave in charge?
And and also not cannibalizing all ofthe great talents that you know is there
to make that kind of in moment decisionYeah, I had a great deputy was a marine.

(22:34):
It was this unique command and controlstructure So I had a marine deputy
colonel that I kind of left the taskforce with later I brought into pakistan
to help me out But I took a handfulof folks to accompany me in to do the
initial assessment a navy seal a navyeod officer a medical An engineer, uh,
to be able to do the initial assessmentsand then an intel and a security guide,

(22:59):
you know, kind of an ops guy that,um, kind of made up this eclectic team
that, you know, I'd worked up withand the staff knew how we operated.
And so I. Pulled like sixor seven people out of that.
And then the strike group, becausewhen Marines went ashore, they
chopped to their commander.
And so then I had, uh, another, uh,chief of staff who was a great, great

(23:20):
individual that helped maneuver theships and put them in positions as we
were spread out around the Gulf to dothe different missions we were assigned.
And so, uh, I tried to do both hats.
I kept.
Kept involved, you know, I had likeprobably seven, eight different
emails and computers that I tookwith me that kind of stay connected.
But at some point it became, youknow, full time at the joint task

(23:41):
force operational lifeline thatit became known to help, uh, being
responsible, saving thousands of lives.
It was, um, Pretty pretty unique.
How how did you try toattack that problem?
And this has to be so rare in somebody'scareer that they're pulled to do something
so different with no real trainingand no time to consider it, right?

(24:03):
So how did you approach it?
And I'm sure you use this when you'retalking to people about leadership.
And then also what made it so fulfilling?
Yeah, it was unique.
You know, I, uh, yeah, After I retired,I gave back, you know, taught other joint
task force commanders, you know, what toexpect and standing up JTS and Keystone
and Capstone, which helps, uh, talk tosenior, uh, SIS and SES and as well as

(24:29):
senior enlisted and generals and admirals.
Um, it's kind of buildingthe aircraft in flight.
I mean, it really was, it was kindof like do initial assessment.
And I think it goes back tothe original question is those
experiences that we had growing up.
In leadership, whether it was sportsor activities or the ships that I was
on to learn those fund foundationalskills that became the foundation

(24:54):
of who you are and how you lead andto be able to do the assessment and
bring this collect a collective group.
Um, I got through, you know,people just came from all over.
I had a, a unit from the air force, a CRG,a recess group that ran the whole airfield
with their, they could do incredible workof offloading and onloading and sorting

(25:17):
and distribution of all the supplies thatwere just heaped on the airfield that.
In Islamabad, the single airfieldat Benazir Bhutto airport.
It was a mess until these guys showed up.
I got a command andcontrol unit from Bahrain.
It was a command post out of tents thatwe lived on the airfield for months, you
know, brought in the Australians came,NATO came in to be able to support.

(25:40):
I had a MASH hospital, a Navy Marine Corpshospital that eventually flew in, uh,
army logistics folks that helped rig thesling loads, helicopters that flew in from
Afghanistan that before were getting shot.
And I had American flags oncovering some of the bullet holes
as they're delivering supplies.

(26:00):
I mean, it's just, it's kind ofan eclectic kind of like, here
you go, you know, and I'd love.
Because of what the ambiguity andchaos, but this was, um, and live
it in this uncertain environment.
Um, but it was, you know, providing basicsand bringing people together and experts
knowing where you're, you know, as anyleader, knowing where your strengths and.

(26:21):
Where your weaknesses are and making sureyou're surrounded by those great people.
And then I think as leaders iscreating an environment to allow
people to really, really Excel that,you know, I remember, you know, on
the ship, one time I was micromanagedand I really didn't like that.
And then I was given a lot of, a lot ofleeway and that was almost too dangerous.
Yeah.
But yeah, same time I learned quickly,like, man, if you have really smart

(26:43):
people, best thing is just give thembroad guidance and kind of give them
commander's intent as we'd call itand kind of let them, let them go.
You know?
And, uh, what made it so rewarding wasinteracting with so many different and
it was my first time really, truly ina, in an embassy environment that I
had no experience in and understandingthe interagency, uh, and all those

(27:07):
dynamics and all the personalities.
And then in this.
eclectic world of humanitarian reliefand disaster assistance, working with UN
and World Health Foundations and learningmore about what it is about, you know,
making sure that you have the right waterand the right environment and the right,
you know, and how animals and Economicmicroeconomics in these villages and

(27:31):
tassels across Pakistan and how to beable to provide that aid and assistance
and then just reflect back to see howrewarding it was to be really responsible
for saving and helping so many lives.
And then the care and care of thepeople, you know, you'd be out in the
middle of nowhere, putting together somelean twos for some makeshift shelter.

(27:55):
And the people of Pakistan were so warmand giving, you know, like their homes
are destroyed, families, you know,many of their family members died.
It would happen on a Saturdaymorning, kids at school and the
structure of their buildings.
And yet here they are trying to offeryou tea or some sense of food as,
as some gift for thanking you forhelping them build their life back.

(28:17):
And you're thinking, oh my goodness,you know, it, um, it gets, I don't know.
I guess it gets into your system, youknow, when you're seeing that aspect
of life, uh, and, and caring for folksand being responsible and having the
wherewithal to be able to have that muchimpact was really, really rewarding.

(28:39):
Might be a naive question, just havingnever been at the stratosphere you're at.
But we just interviewed HR McMasterand I just read his most recent
book and I think there's this great,great leader and it's, it's hard.
I think when, when you've neverbeen at the level you, you have been
at, I think we would assume that alot of the political jockeying, um,

(29:04):
games, personalities go away, butI think the more I learn about it.
It maybe it doesn't and i'm wonderingin a situation like that where
You've got a war going on next door.
You've probably got limited resources.
I bet even getting the chinooks overthere was not easy No, they wanted Yeah,
is it is it naive to let them all overI mean the resources that you have So

(29:31):
do you Is it naive to think that youprobably still had to fight these battles?
Like that's part of the reasonyou're there is to do this.
Yeah, I think, I think so.
There were some times that, um,and it was interesting because in a
humanitarian disaster relief, even though.
And I, and I talk about this.
I actually wrote a book about thestory and it's a how to lead through

(29:51):
crisis is called end game first.
But it talked about the phasesof this relationship, but also
some of the techniques becauseit was this eclectic group.
And how do you, how do youbuild the team to be able to it.
And, and the idea of, you know, checkingyour ego at the door, because here
I was, I mean, the U. S. military,as you know, because you've been a

(30:13):
part of that is there's nobody thatcan operate the scale and speed
and, and adaptability that we have.
I mean, helicopters are shot atnow providing relief and shuttling
supplies and medicine and peopleup the reflected areas, C 17s and C
130s, you know, I pick up the phoneand say, Hey, I need to deliver this.
But, you know, I had to orchestratewhen I could land at the airfield.

(30:35):
Bring in a hospital.
I got to have the helicoptersback fighting the war.
And I got all the national guardhelicopters from all over the
United States being disassembled,put together, land at the airfield.
And two days later, they're flying reliefmissions in throughout the, you know,
the affected area of this a hundredby 300 kilometer area that was just
completely devastated with no access.

(30:58):
And you just, you're kind of like.
Wow.
But anyway, here you are as anindividual that had all the money,
all the toys, all the capacity.
I had a staff that knew how towork this and plus this big CENTCOM
staff back in Tampa that was helpingme resource all these things.
Somewhat an unlimited budget to be ableto provide the support that we needed

(31:18):
to support the effort of the ambassador.
So it was, I could have easilygone, excuse me, I'm in charge
because I got everything.
But the mindset I think we're taught.
You know, in the military, you know,whether it's, you know, strict take
on icon and all that kind of stuff.
And one Marine general told me,well, there's hand con and choke con.

(31:39):
But it was the idea of supporting,supporting relationships.
And I quickly realized, you know,supporting the ambassador and
the U S mission, the military wasjust one piece of this puzzle.
When you see this unique interagencyand how you come together is how do
we provide all those resources andcapabilities to be able to provide the
The mission of saving lives and beingable to focus on what was going on.

(32:04):
And so the book end game was aninteresting one because here now,
general Abizaid and general Doug Lute,both then later ambassadors come ashore
about a, um, about three weeks into it.
And we're flowing forces in andAbizaid or Lute kind of poked me and
kind of go, Hey, Lefebvre, um, Wehave a bad habit of sending troops
places and never getting them out.

(32:25):
It says, what's your end gate?
What's your exit strategy?
Interesting.
I looked at him like,you gotta be kidding me.
I just got here.
I, you know, by then it was a couplehundred on the ground that grew the 1500.
Of course, Pakistanis, I'm in areaswhere it used to be, you know, Taliban
training camps up in the Fatah andalong the Northwest frontier and

(32:46):
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and along theline of control at Ajak Kashmu.
Cashmere, you know, free cashmere.
That's always been a contest.
Huge.
Um, and, and he's saying, okay,what's your exit strategy?
But it was really prescient in that.
And he says, Hey, Mike, here's whatI want you to do provide humanitarian
relief and improve us pack relations.

(33:06):
And so after the initial stages of thatnine one, one moment and understanding
those second and third order effects,if you weren't ahead of it, kind
of the phases you could then like.
Everything was geared to that.
How do I make sure that Pakistanimproved that U. S. Relations provide
the humanitarian support, but ithelped really focus that, Hey, we

(33:27):
all experienced strategies, you know,tragedies along our lives and crises.
But the idea that they're all goingto end, and then the idea that what
made this so prevalent is that youget to shape how this is going to end.
You get to decide along the way youractions and activities and decisions to

(33:48):
be able to, when this ends, you endedin a state where you want it to be.
And so this idea and so it was soprescient about how you could do that.
And so then everything was geared aroundthat there were some tough decisions
along the way where You know making surethat pakistan was always in the front and
and and which they did a great job butyou know They didn't have the resources

(34:12):
nor the knowledge that we had to beable to assist and so It was just fun.
It was just kind of likeI love the environment.
Here's a clean board.
You know, there wasn't really anyreal good guidance about how to
conduct humanitarian assistance.
And it says, okay, we're going to putyou in charge and we're going to arrange
a command and control environment thatall these forces from Air Force, Army,

(34:34):
Marines, Navy, Coast Guard, Aussies, NATOare going to be supporting this effort.
And it was just Okay.
It was it's like, holy shit.
This is fun.
Well, clearly clearly it works becausethey bring you back Um, so you achieve
both both missions It sounds like andif we if we look at so you go back in
2008, obviously the bin laden raid youalluded to um 2011 In that timeframe,

(35:00):
and I know my, my dad, if he everlistens to this, he will, he will insist.
I talk about, cause he'sbeat this into my head.
Like how important the military is inPakistan and the core commanders and how
much they drive decisions politically.
And, and, and in terms of domestic andforeign policy and you being the head.

(35:20):
Us military lead had to have beensuper involved there Maybe my
first question though is did youever end up going to a bottom pod?
Yes.
Oh my god
Please That's a really funny story, Imean about a bottle it's also a place
where we put a The French had a forwardrefueling station there that, so as the

(35:44):
helicopter, so they didn't always haveto come back to Islamabad to refuel.
We'd forward refuel and do sling loadsas we developed that towards the, towards
the middle and end of the operation tobe able to provide so much supplies.
So that was there.
Then there was another time when Iwas the senior rep there and General
Petraeus was CENTCOM commander andhe was asked to talk at a Bab N Abad.

(36:05):
They're basically their West Point.
So that was probably like 2010.
Uh, you know, it's so it's justfunny you're talking about the PAC
army, you know, then it was GeneralKiani and then General Pasha was the
DGMO, which was their kind of head ofoperations who later became the head
of ISI for some reason, we befriended,but that's where I became very close.

(36:27):
The embassy was incredibly close.
The ambassador, the chief and chiefof station and myself kind of with the
trifecta and how they played us and wewere such united that it was just so
much fun to be able to be a part of that.
But one of the keys is one ofmy philosophies that I always
remembered from leadership was Iused to say my command philosophy.

(36:49):
My top three priorities are relationships,relationships, relationships.
You can have them in any order,but those are the top three
Because it was the relationships thatdeveloped because ironically after
the earthquake the guy was rotatingout General admiral mullin was the
cno when I did the earthquake reliefnow the chairman And he gets called by

(37:10):
kiani and we're trying to develop thisrelationship for the war on terror And he
says hey Mike LaFever knows who we are.
He did this great relief effort.
Um, he's well respected.
We would like him back and it was almost
By name call how I got sent back toyou know, again this idea one year

(37:31):
thinking then three years later But itwas those relationships that allowed
us to do things And to be able tosupport what we were doing training the
frontier core supporting the Air Force.
We got them F 16s as a part of acontract and then boats for the Navy.
And I mean, just those experiencesand it's the relationships that, why

(37:52):
I still get invited back to these.
Strategic dialogues becauseof relationships that take
down all the barriers.
It's harder to say no whenyou develop the relationship.
And so that was, that was key.
And kind of, I talk about that as well,as you build the trust and the respect.
It wasn't that, you know, Ibecame a, you know, kind of.

(38:13):
But it was trying to interprethow the Pakistanis were.
And even, um, after the Bin Laden raid,which they really didn't appreciate.
Um, but I was one of the few peoplethey would still talk to because
of the relationships to be able tostill do the deconfliction along
the border, to be able to do otherstuff that have to get brought back.

(38:34):
But, um, you know, they were.
Kind of interesting times if we, in justa sec, if we talked to bin Laden, Ray,
but just, just before that, who, who wasthe ambassador at the time it was Crocker.
The first time you said, right.
And who was it?
The second Patterson, another justgreat American, another career diplomat.
And then, uh, she got relieved byCameron Munter in the last year that

(38:57):
I was there, but she was there forlike three years and Ann Patterson.
And then, I mean, she's anotherone that, and her deputy was Jerry
Firesign that went on to Yemen.
His assistant, you know, was ElizabethRichard that was his deputy in Yemen.
And then later went to Lebanon, youknow, and went on to Cairo and Egypt.
I mean, these were unique.
Kind of wartime ambassadors that, that,you know, relished in, um, in the circuit

(39:21):
of, in heavily contested, conflictedareas versus the, not the, yeah, but
it's just fascinating.
Just great leaders and impressive, youknow, and you get a really respect for
the interagency and what each of usbrings to the table to really provide it.

(39:43):
Especially there.
Um, could you sort of take us throughjust what the, where you sat and what
happened with the bin Laden raid?
Yeah.
Um, what I can tell you is that,uh, yeah, whatever you can tell us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, um, The idea that, you know,when it would happen, a very small
group, as you can well imagine,you know, really understood that.

(40:06):
So, uh, we had at the embassy,you know, ability to do stuff.
We had some other folks camein, but we set up a kind of a
little command center there.
So the infamous picture of, you know,the White House in the sit room.
I was, we were on the other sideof that VTC with Bill McRaven,
the White House and Bill McRaven.

(40:26):
Director Panetta, uh, and Bill McRavenin theater in Afghanistan, Panetta that,
um, Langley and then, uh, you know, theWhite House, um, so really fascinating
and I think what people can feel very goodabout from the times of Eagle Claw, the
disaster in Iran where we had so many inthe development at JSOC and what we did.

(40:48):
And, and the interagency to what occurredat the Bin Laden raid, the incredible
resources that were brought to bear ofthe US government to have an incredibly
unique picture and ability to do,uh, the pull off that event, um, in
secrecy and under the cover of night,uh, undetected to the time that the,

(41:13):
you know, helicopter, you know, thepicture with that's when the helicopter
settled on the wall and, um, You know,literally the wheel caught just right
or that thing would have been in flames.
And, you know, some of the operatorsthat I do part of the team, uh, quite,
quite, quite well that were a partof that and how they were able to
respond and in conducted different.

(41:35):
What they trained for down in NorthCarolina completely change, uh, be a
part of that and have the understandingand knowledge and the connectivity
and being able to, uh, observe andbe a part of that was just, um, also
another highlight, you know, thatkind of, and, uh, professionalism,
the idea of what happened.

(41:55):
The amount of information, the resourcesand the planning that went in because
of the helicopter crash, how that wehad other helicopters, what we had
stacked over there, how we X filled,how we were able to take the body out,
the coordination that we had in orderto get the, just an amazing, um, Sense
of the operation and communication.

(42:17):
And then I helped set up somephone calls with the chairman and
General Kiani when where people weresafe to be able to talk about it.
And then the president comingon that night to talk about it.
And, um, you know, and, um,so it was really quite Quite
an event to be a part of.
Yeah.
And did you genuinely, if youcan't answer, don't worry, I

(42:40):
will just edit this part out.
But when um, I'm imagining, I guessI'm trying to even imagine putting
myself in your shoes as the, as kindof the lead military counterpart.
You've developed this relationshipover years with these people.
You can imagine they're going to be upset.
Do you also have kind of a talking pointset for like if this thing goes south?

(43:03):
In, or is it, I'm always going toexpend all the equity I've built up over
time and hope that it turns out okay.
I mean, it was, uh, you know,we built up a lot of trust and
a lot of, you know, expertise.
Um, the Ray Davis thing, uh, causedsome, caused some chips to be cast in.
Probably used some equity there.

(43:23):
Okay.
Yeah, it was, uh, we had arranged,uh, I mean, here is a diplomat
that of course he's jailed.
We.
Have help in settling.
We get him instead of going tothe prison, hops an airplane.
We get him to Afghanistan.
Um, there was also, um, reporterthat New York Times reporter that was
taken in Afghanistan and brought over.

(43:45):
That was probably a couple monthsbefore that he's found in Pakistan.
And I'm working with, uh, Ahmed Pasha, thedirector of ISI when we finally he gets
out of the compound and makes his way toa ranger station to be able to uh, Brought
him back to be able to be released.
I mean, there, it was a series of eventsthat always occurs and the interactions

(44:05):
along the border and, um, the abilitythat they gave us access to bases as
well as the air carters to be able tocontinue to resupply this landlocked
country, you know, kind of when, whenMullen goes, he goes, Hey, you know,
you hero of Pakistan from this, youknow, kind of like we need you there.
Um, And in order to win in Afghanistan, weneed to win in Pakistan because of being

(44:29):
landlocked at any one time, there was 10,000 trucks on the road in Pakistan, which
was the resupply route from the port ofKarachi to be able to do it before we
opened up the northern routes, which thengot closed down because of the Russians.
I mean, it was such aninteresting geopolitical strategic
environment that kind of.

(44:51):
You know, four dimensional chestdoesn't even come close to what this
was and then the dynamics of India andIndo Pak and how we separate the world
and, and then, uh, the sensitivity,Pakistan being a very proud country and
their army really run in the countryand an ISI being a part of that, you
know, working us with us to be able toround up the most Biggest terrorists.

(45:13):
And at the same time, trying tocatch us in, uh, in, uh, I mean,
it was just, it was the mostuncertain, unpredictable environment.
I think I tell people I've ever operated.
I must, I prefer to goto Afghanistan and Iraq.
Cause I knew I was going to a war zone.
It's like, here we go.
It's crazy places.
Yeah.
Um, what, uh, What does a team of seasonedveterans from across the interagency after

(45:42):
that successful operation, what happens?
Do you go, do you gohave a drink together?
Is it retired?
We go to bed.
Is this top secret?
It can't be shared.
Now it's kind of fascinating, you know,the, you know, the call that when they
got him was just kind of like, wow.
And then it was like, okay, nowwe need to get the do the sense

(46:04):
of site exploitation on the site.
We needed to make sureour folks got out safely.
Um, Obviously by now we made a decisionwe were going to destroy the helicopter.
Uh, that was going tobring a lot of notice.
Obviously all the gunfirebrought some notice.
Um, it's in a compound as you, youknow, talked about of Abbottabot,
about a mile from their West Point,a couple miles down the road from a

(46:27):
potentially weapons storage facility.
Um, 60 miles, 60 kilometersfrom the capital of Islamabad.
I mean, crazy.
You know, when you think of thedynamics, get those folks out and safe.
And then obviously the follow onbecause of the access that we had
in Pakistan and the Carter, werethey going to shut that down?

(46:48):
How do we get the troops out?
How do we.
Ensure the right, proper disposalof the body that, you know, we all
read about from the burial at sea,um, though all those dynamics and,
and how do you keep the coalitiontogether to still be able to do that?
And then, as you said, I mean, whilewe're conducting this, there's still
like 40 or 50 operations going onin Afghanistan and a night with,

(47:10):
with the units that were there.
Um, and so there was almost a sense of.
Wow.
And then it was, you know, thedynamics that afterwards of just
keeps going, the president's talk.
And then the, the unfortunate thingis, you know, the next morning on the
news cycle, it was, you know, talkingabout the rain and how people helped

(47:30):
and that really embarrassed Pakistan.
And so.
And if you hurt the pride of the Pakistanarmy, you hurt the whole country.
And so literally, um, again, likeI said, they were, I was one of
the few persons they would talk to,but for most cases, I mean, I had a
fax, they wouldn't answer the phone.
So I'd fax them and says, I need to call.

(47:51):
Cause we still have operationsgoing on in the border and they were
not happy with us, but they wouldstill talk and they talked to me.
We would, uh, do things and then atabout the After about two weeks, we
thought this was their 911 moment, youknow, a real opportunity for them to
really understand what was going on.
And instead it was kind of like, theycalled me in, read me the riot act,

(48:13):
you know, it's never fun, never fun.
No, it's kind of like, cause we hadsome events before that said, you know,
if you invade Pakistan, we're going tothrow you out, you're no longer here.
And kind of, so that was the expectation.
We were just happy.
They were still talking to usand allowing us, they, they.
Greatly restricted our access, but,um, but we did talk about the events

(48:35):
and then ironically, many of themwanted to go for walks out of their
offices to hear some more of the story.
Interesting.
Right.
That's right.
It was really fascinating.
Uh, and the relationships again,that you build to have, uh, candid
conversations and hard talks and criticalconversations about difficult subjects.
You know, kind of trying to figureout how they thought about it, but

(48:57):
how we thought about it and whatwe needed to do and, and then, uh,
working with them to try to build theirconfidence back up and, and for them
to demonstrate their capabilities.
Well, I was hoping you'd say you all hada little bit of scotch or something and
then said, all right, let's keep going.
All right.
I got back, uh, you know, kind of like.
You know, it was in the morning, ourmorning when, you know, President finally

(49:20):
finished talking and, and then, youknow, we knew it was going to be game on.
Yeah, it was, you know, the optempo there was just, you know,
incredible from, because of that12 hour cycle almost from DC.
Yeah, it never ends.
You're working in pakistan, then you gotto stay up at night to be able to brief
National security council and othersabout the events that went on for the day.

(49:42):
So it looks like
You've mentioned all these people thatyou've met crocker, uh abizade, um,
you mentioned casey Um, I, I know we'reonly scratching the surface once, once
you're at your level and, and even theforeign dignitaries Kiani and, and folks
that you may have run into, is there aparticularly memorable encounter you had

(50:03):
with someone, whether they were foreignor somebody in the U S that just kind
of still sticks with you or a nice oneat a dinner party, you could throw out.
I think there's so many of those,you know, there's like little
unique things that you want tolike treasure little pieces.
And then the gas in thebeginning is kind of like.

(50:23):
Seriously, you're like pitchingyourself like I'm I'm at the state
dinner, you know, reading the demarcheor talking to the president of a
country that just went through acoup and how they should treat that.
You kind of go who would ever thoughtthat, you know, you know, Oh, Mike
would be at this, you know, kind ofthis level and Um Very humbling and,

(50:46):
you know, kind of eye watering the kindof the opportunities and the events
to be a part of, I think, is probablythe, the tribute, you know, a lot like
you, you can only carry with you andmany people, you know, kind of, and the
experiences and, uh, opportunities and.
Some of the funny vignettes that wouldoccur or unique things that, you know,

(51:09):
trigger your mind about discussions andcomical events or unique events that
you could share with some of the folksthat obviously been a part of that.
How about briefing the presidentlike the first time you have
to do something at that level?
I can't even imagine.
I mean, when was that moment for you?

(51:30):
The first one was kind of like, um,uh, VT, uh, well, and in 2005, um,
Vice President Cheney came over, butwe were briefing the president and
then had the former presidents actuallycome to Pakistan to take a look.
Um, and so that was kind of, you know,again, very humbling to be in that and

(51:53):
kind of here you were, you know, asa one star and I'm leading this great
coalition of men and women that areproviding Flying them up in these austere
areas and seeing the environment and thewonderful support we were getting from
Pakistan, but the impact that we werehaving and, you know, our helicopters
were called like you, a helicopterpilot, they were called angels of mercy.

(52:16):
And, and even though the NGOs wouldsay, well, you know, cause they,
we had donor fatigue cause the,uh, job, you know, uh, tsunami
and, and, and so people were tired.
So these NGOs would get on and go,well, if we don't get money, we're
not going to be able to get supplies.
And, you know, it waskind of like, Oh shit.
I, you know, I had to get on TV.
I was on TV probably every day kindof talking about what the, cause

(52:38):
we were the only ones capable, theUN, uh, helicopters were able to
do a little, but it was really the.
Us air lift, rotary air and fifixed wing that was saved the day.
Um, you know, we carried out an, anair lift that was overwhelmed, you
know, what we did in Berlin to be ableto yeah, keep these cities that were

(53:01):
isolated, alive, and uh, and gone.
And it, you know, you, you kind of sitback and when it sinks in, you kind
of go, wow, that was pretty amazing.
Yeah.
Pretty blessed.
Given a lot of the work you do nowfrom a leadership consulting advisory
perspective Um and the book quitehonestly like leading through crises.

(53:25):
Who have you learned themost from in your time?
Wow, that's a great question.
I had you know, like like everyone wealways have these great mentors along the
way And it's both the good and bad thathelps develop you or what you are And as
you know, you know kind of the the billYou know, every 18 months or two years or
three years, you get a new commander or anew senior enlist, you know, it's kind of

(53:46):
like everybody's worried, you know whatit was, but I always looked at it as, you
know, here's another individual based onthe experiences and they're what they've
shaped and how they approach it and theidea that when you're in that opportunity
to have command and lead and to beable to shape to lead the organization
better than when you found it.
But I had so many great mentors thattaught me so many things that And

(54:09):
then, you know, tailoring them tohow my style to be able to operate
that that really was the formula ofhow do you, how do you blend that?
Because one size doesn't fit all andhow you lead people and how you take
care of them like talk about, youknow, it's like the old watchman with
the big ring of keys and as a leader.
Knowing that each key, which is theright key for that individual to unlock

(54:32):
their potential and to allow those peopleto flourish and allow them to really
excel and shape them because our time.
And how do you help shapethem for the future that?
That they'll be in positionsto lead and, and to be able to
benefit from your experience.
So when I do mentoring,it's along those lines.
Here's what I did to screw up.

(54:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here are the things that for meworked, but you know, this is what,
this is how I, you know, was able to.
Approach some of these situationsand and again for that individual
for for them to be able todecide what works best for them.
Again, this is strengths and weaknessesfor all of us, but probably the most

(55:13):
important is how do you how do you dealwith this uncertainty on predictability?
How do you know what thosestressors are for you?
And so, at this limeral collective,we did some Red Bull stuff, and we
do some stuff with operators and, andfolks, but we put them in environments
that are completely foreign to them.
To get them to understand what'shappening physiologically and
psychologically to them that impairstheir decision making under stress.

(55:37):
How do they recognize that?
How did they control that to beable to be better decision makers?
And what's an example of that, sir? Likefor an operator, what do you put them in?
That gives them, if you're allowed tosay, I don't know if it's proprietary.
Yeah, no, it was a kind ofa week long development.
And it was, it was funny.
We, we, there were some cyberwarriors that work at the, at the
national level air force, uh, nationalguard unit that was doing that.

(56:01):
So we had a handful of them.
We teach them, you know.
Kind of keeping, you know, kindof the resiliency people, you
know, self care, self talk.
How do you stay connected andunderstanding, you know, who you are?
But we'd, um, we'd help shapethem, give them foundations.
We talked to them about, youknow, shaping what they were.
Then we had, we did some pool workin the water, did some underwater

(56:24):
swimming, some breath holding.
Uh, the next day we had some folksfrom that actually developed Cirque
de Soleil and we put them up on astage and put them through some of
the things with Cirque de Soleil.
And, you know, to see them we had themon heart monitors to watch and we had
some folks in the audience to watch theirreaction and then we had them fall asleep.
From a, from a creativity perspectiveand an unfounded, then we took them

(56:47):
to the Red Bull facility and put themthrough some, some of the things that we
at the Red Bull facility to understand.
And then, um, we took him out one morning,uh, off the coast of Malibu through
the surf, put them in wetsuits and swamthem out at like 5 AM in the morning
to watch the sunrise over LA through,but we had them in light preserve, but

(57:08):
I mean, you know, it's just kind ofthose experiences that took them out
of that, what they were accustomed to.
To put them in this whole uniqueenvironment just to see how their body
reacts and how they would react to those.
You know, involving developments, likevery physical, I'm going to take you off.
You're sitting out on your bridge,wing of the flagship carrier LHA.

(57:30):
And now I'm going to send youinto the Himalayas and the Hindu.
Interesting.
Well, that's I've trained forthat all along my whole career.
So it's kind of fun.
Okay.
And you'd mentioned, you know, wejoked, you'd failed at retirement,
but you do a lot of things now thatI just, uh, very quickly rattled off.

(57:52):
What, what are some of the things rightnow that you're, you're proud of or
excited about that you're engaged in?
I was, um.
I mean, uh, probably givingback is probably the best.
When I was, uh, working for jointstaff and doing the training, helping
future leaders evolve and help themunderstand the dynamics of the national
security environment, like who wouldhave predicted, you know, I came off

(58:14):
the, and then I'm briefing the presidentabout what's going on in the earthquake
and, and the whole interagency.
And here's three and four stars.
And I'm telling them that it.
Well USAID's in charge and we don't needthose foul weather coats, but we need
blankets because it's not culturallysensitive and so You need to offload
this airplane and I need this supplyand regulating that I need to build

(58:35):
this hospital But at the same time Ineed to bring in supplies to be able to
support And here's this lonely one startalking to the Transportation commander,
you know, four star, you know, in St.
Louis, kind of like, uh, sir, youknow, you need to offload that
military aircraft and we need toshape it to have it this, this load.
So it's, it's, it's environmentslike that to be able to do that.

(58:56):
So giving back and helping themunderstand that I think was, was
one of the more prouder moments.
And then, and then mostof the other things was.
Being able to use the great, greatexperiences that I had to help shape
leadership environments at differentorganizations, a cybersecurity company
that I find myself that was helping theintelligence community and some, some

(59:16):
programs that I was at the securitycompany for the last five years of
CEO, helping to shape it and bringa, you know, develop a culture that.
Allowed the company to growand excel and and support ops.
And then we actually got called by someof our high net worth individuals to
help evacuate people out of Afghanistanthat we were successful in getting out.

(59:38):
Uh, and we created a 501 C threecalled the 188 foundation of folks.
Wow.
Literally the lastflight out of my Sharif.
And it was a KM airlines thatnegotiated with the Taliban and
we had state department clearancesto get them to the IRC in Mexico.
But the, the VP of the Afghanairlines knew what was going on
and he stuffed the plane full.

(59:58):
So it landed in Dubai with like 350 somepeople on board when we told everybody
in the government, it's only one 88 andthese people are going to walk across
the tarmac onto a plane to go to Mexico.
They were not happy with us on that one.
That was another fun.
You know, being involved and have animpact I think is probably the, the key.
So I find myself helping the nationalsecurity, helping giving back and, and

(01:00:22):
then sharing my experiences so thatother people can hopefully benefit
from my, from my losses and failures,to be able to learn from those.
And even over the next couple of years,is there something that you haven't done
that you're trying to scratch an itch on?
Gosh.
Um, I don't know.
I think it's, you know, what, what,what gets served up as you understand.

(01:00:44):
I kind of love this idea of kind oflike Hey, what do you think about this?
Well, I'll give it a shot.
Let me try this.
Right now.
It's kind of like a parttime at this one company.
I'm doing a big chairman of a,of because of foreign owned.
So, uh, ocean infinity, which isa undersea robotics and surveying,
but, um, looking at helping, youknow, how do we, how do we do that?

(01:01:07):
How do we shape how maybe there'ssome stuff that we can do to
help with the undersea cables.
I mean, so it's kind of those experiences.
How do we shape, how do we take this,you know, adapt this utility to be
able to provide this kind of service?
So I, I enjoy that as well.
It's kind of like, you know, kind oflike, wow, we had helicopters that
were, you know, getting shot at.
They brought, now they're providinghumanitarian relief for this hospital

(01:01:29):
to assign for combat casualties, nowproviding support to families and
that were, and children that were partof this devastating earthquake that
You know, we're part of the injuredand how do you adapt and how do you
think about things and the creativityin mind to be able to do that?
So it's kind of so it's kind offun and then this high performance
thing this liberal collective.

(01:01:49):
How do we support?
people that are you know gonna gonnado things and Help them train to be
better leaders in this environment.
That's changing very rapidly jealous Anddo you do anything when you slow down?
I assume you're a big Is that correctyou read a lot sir, but I do read uh,
I don't judge I do a lot of audio booksBut I like I like staying active working

(01:02:14):
out I do uh, sea kayaking i'm out in thepuget sound area right now And then uh,
stay in active bike riding hiking Uh,being with people and sharing stories.
Well, just two, two quickquestions before that.
I ask everybody just beforeI let you out of here.
If you're still okay with that one is,is there anything that you carried with

(01:02:34):
you when you were, I say downrange,but on a ship or, you know, when you
were in Pakistan, something that hadeither sentimental value, something that
somebody gave you good luck, charm, orjust something you wanted to have on you.
Uh, wow.
Great question.
I had to say that, um, you know,you carry it in your heart.

(01:02:56):
Um, this is something thatnobody can ever take away.
So it's those, those memoriesand those people that helped
shape you, your loved ones.
That, um, and the experiencesthat you always carried with
you, that was, was important.
I do joke though, , I had this backpackthat I had that I, it was kinda like

(01:03:16):
my security blanket, I called it.
Yeah.
Anytime that I had it.
You know, I kind ofsurvived a lot of stuff.
Oh, I'm gonna take this with me forever.
, do you still have it?
Yeah, I still do.
. Yes.
I have one right here.
I have one that thezippers my private, right.
Yeah.
Zippers don't work.
My wife made me get another one.
That's right here.

(01:03:37):
So I hear you on that.
I hear you.
Yeah.
So that was, that was one.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's funny.
I love it.
And then the last question that Itry to ask everybody is just looking
back on, you know, three decades ofservice and sacrifice and time away
from loved ones and probably losingpeople along the way and almost

(01:03:59):
certainly near death experiences.
Um, as you look back on thattime, would you do it again?
Absolutely.
Without a doubt.
Yeah.
It really is.
It's kind of like, wow, how was I affordedthat opportunity and the challenges
and, Hey, you're going to do this again.
And it's kind of like, really?

(01:04:20):
Yeah, this is great.
You know?
Okay.
Give it a shot.
You know, like every, as you know,it in a military, it's like every
two to two years or 18 months,you're going to a new assignment,
new job you weren't trained for.
You know, people talk, talkabout the imposter syndrome,
imposter syndrome, exactly.
Like, Oh, well, that's.
It's kind of set of my,this is my whole career,

(01:04:41):
but yeah, but it's kind of likewhat a great opportunity and
challenges and just so fortunate.
And then I should have asked atthe beginning, sir, what, uh, what
weight class did you wrestle at?
Were you like, uh, were youlike a state champ or were
you like one 71 in New Jersey?
I, uh, went to States, uh,was regional champ that didn't
do too as well in States.

(01:05:01):
And then, uh, but Iended the Naval Academy.
I wrestled 126 pounds, 126.
Yeah.
Really?
Were you having to cut or no?
Oh, yeah.
I was probably in the offseason.
I was probably in the 140,150 range through college.
I'm now, I'm lucky.
I'm kind of, I feel good at like160, 160, 165 and it's kind of like I

(01:05:22):
still need to lose some weight, but.
You know, life changes, right?
And then we'll get you out on this.
Did you ever have to takeGlen Corn down one time?
Like, Hey, you're talking too much.
Let me find what's always, you know,some of the, the, um, Nerf basketball
sometimes got to be a physicalgame, you know, kind of like, you
know, blocking shots and so forth.
There might've been some, somephysical contact during those, during

(01:05:44):
those, uh, games in the embassy.
Hey, sir. Thank you so much.
This was really enjoyable.
I hope actually maybe one day we can getyou back on just to talk about what's
going on in the world in these placesthat you travel to and still keep up on.
But, um, genuinely thanks for yourservice and spending time with us.
No, thank you.
This was really a lot of fun.

(01:06:05):
Hope you enjoyed that combat story.
First time with an admiral onhere, which is pretty, pretty cool.
Had no idea what to expect.
And really didn't think thatthe idea of the work that he did
in Pakistan for the earthquake.
Would be so meaningful to him untilhearing that story and also, um, you
know I was amazed to hear about hisexperiences with the bin Laden raid

(01:06:28):
being on that side of the world, thatside of the border in Pakistan, having
gone to Abbottabad many times beforeand what that must have felt like.
And then even the reference to theFrench who were about a couple miles
away from bin Laden for so long.
That was interesting to hear.
I had no idea we had a, uh, acoalition presence that close,
but it must have been fascinating.

(01:06:49):
The people he's met along the way.
Um, thank you so much for, uh,For sticking it out with us, as
always, uh, you can check outour newsletter at CombatStory.
com slash newsletter.
And if you want to support the show,um, we've got a, uh, property, if
you're looking for a killer vacation,uh, down in Florida, near some of
the nicest beaches in the world, uh,you can check it out at CombatStory.

(01:07:14):
com slash vacation.
Uh, that money can, uh, definitelyhelp us keep going here.
So thank you so much forstaying tuned this long and
wherever you are in the world.
Hope you have a great rest of yourweek weekend, and as always stay safe.

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Inside the Command Post in Pakistan During the Bin Laden Raid | Earthquake Relief | Leadership Lessons | Vice Adm (ret) Mike LeFever

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Inside the Command Post in Pakistan During the Bin Laden Raid | Earthquake Relief | Leadership Lessons | Vice Adm (ret) Mike LeFever