August 15, 2025 • 37 mins
🎙️ Time-Sensitive RH Intel: Trump-Putin Alaska Summit Analysis 🌍🇺🇸🇷🇺
Join Ryan Fugit and Glenn, both seasoned former CIA officers 🕵️♂️, as they unpack the high-stakes Trump-Putin meeting in Alaska 🏔️—a pivotal moment for US-Russia relations and the Ukraine conflict. This timely episode dives deep into international diplomacy, geopolitical tensions, and the shifting dynamics of the global security landscape.
Get a daily intel brief delivered to your email at https://www.restrictedhandling.com/ to get a curated set of insights and reporting on Russia, China, Iran, the MIddle East and more from a national security perspective.
With decades of intelligence experience, Ryan and Glenn offer unparalleled insights into:
🔹 The strategic implications of the Alaska summit
🔹 The battlefield realities shaping negotiations 🪖
🔹 The symbolic significance of the meeting’s location
🔹 How this summit could influence NATO strategy and future diplomacy
You’ll also learn the hidden history of Alaska’s role in U.S.-Russia affairs, the motivations of key players, and the possible paths forward for Ukraine, Russia, and the West.
💡 Key Takeaways:
🤝 The summit is a rare, high-stakes opportunity for dialogue.
📍 Alaska offers strategic advantages, including fewer ICC challenges.
🎯 Russia’s tactics aim to strengthen their bargaining position.
⚠️ Risks remain for Ukraine in potential negotiations.
🪢 U.S. strategy must balance pressure with incentives.
🕊️ Diplomacy is essential—some conflicts can’t be won militarily.
💪 Ukrainian resilience will be a decisive factor.
📢 Sound Bites:
“This is a high-stakes meeting.”
“Putin’s actions serve the ego of one man.”
“We need to incentivize the Russians to behave.”
📌 Keywords: US-Russia relations, Ukraine conflict, Trump-Putin meeting, Alaska summit, NATO, international diplomacy, geopolitical tensions, global security.
🎧 Listen now for a gripping, no-spin breakdown of what’s happening behind closed doors—and what it means for the future of international power.
Time sensitive RH intel: join Ryan Fugit and Glenn, both veterans of the CIA, as they navigate the intricate landscape of international diplomacy and geopolitical tensions. This is a timely episode focused on the pivotal meeting between President Trump and Vladimir Putin in Alaska, they explore the strategic implications for Ukraine and the broader global stage. Drawing from decades of experience, Ryan and Glenn provide an in-depth analysis of the current US-Russia relations, the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, and the potential outcomes of this high-stakes summit.
Discover the historical context behind Alaska's role in this meeting, the symbolic significance of the location, and the potential impact on future negotiations involving Ukraine, Russia, and NATO. As they dissect the motivations and strategies of key players, Ryan and Glenn offer unique insights into the challenges and opportunities facing international leaders today.
Whether you're interested in the nuances of diplomacy, the dynamics of power, or the future of global security, this episode offers a comprehensive look at the forces shaping our world. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that goes beyond the headlines to uncover the realities of international relations.
- The Trump-Putin meeting is a high-stakes opportunity for dialogue.
- Alaska's location for the meeting is strategic, reducing ICC challenges.
- Russia's battlefield tactics are aimed at improving their negotiating position.
- There are concerns about Ukraine potentially losing ground in negotiations.
- The U.S. must consider both sticks and carrots in its approach to Russia.
- Diplomacy is crucial; not all conflicts can be resolved through military means.
- The long-term impact of the war on both Ukraine and Russia will be significant.
Connect with Glenn at https://greatsouthbayinc.com/
Chapters
- 00:00 Introduction and Context Setting
- 01:21 The Significance of the Alaska Meeting
- 04:36 Current Battlefield Dynamics in Ukraine
- 08:03 Negotiating Positions and Red Lines
- 11:33 Future Predictions and Strategic Considerations
- 15:03 The Broader Implications for Global Politics
- 18:18 Understanding Putin's Motivatio
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome, freedom Loving People.
This is a Restricted Handling podcast.
I am one of your co-host RyanFut, army veteran covering
gun pilot, former CIA officer.
I'm joined with a dear friend, longtimeCIA Officer, senior Intelligence
Service, multi chief of Station in someof the tougher places when it comes
(00:21):
to the front lines for US NationalSecurity, Europe Eurasia experts.
34 years in the belly of the Beast betweenArmy, state Department and CIA Glenn Korn.
Hey Ryan.
Nice to see you.
Hello everybody.
Thank you for the introduction andas, as we need to say, the opinions
shared here are our own and we areno longer part of the government.
(00:43):
This is opinions from Two former.
Although we do pay ourtaxes, we wanna stress that.
That is true.
That's true, especially me in California.
We're part of the no comment.
We're part of the dream.
Okay, so we got a lot going on.
We are hours away from Trumpand Putin meeting US military
installation in Anchorage, Alaska.
(01:06):
This could, could have tremendoussignificance, and the reason we're talking
is what impact is it gonna have and getinsights from somebody who knows like you.
So, Glenn, as we kick off, how would youset the stage for, for what's coming here?
How do I set the stage?
Obviously everybody is watching.
This is a kinda high stakes meeting,although it may not be as high stakes
(01:28):
as it's kind of being billed because Iunderstand the president and, uh, the
White House are saying that this isjust an opportunity for the president
to hear for himself and engageddirectly with, uh, Vladimir Putin on
the issue of ending the war in Ukraine.
I think that, you know, from whatI'm reading in the media, this is
all kinda open source, is that.
(01:49):
There's not a lot of highexpectations that there're
gonna be a major breakthrough.
I think one of the goals of the meeting isto set up another meeting where President
Zelinsky, the Ukrainian president, willhave the opportunity to meet directly
with President Trump and President Putin.
And one thing I think is reassuringis that the White House has said that
there'll be no deal made with theRussians on the future of Ukraine
(02:09):
without Ukrainians at the table.
That is very, very important.
I think Putin may try to.
Present the impressionthat that's happening.
And I'm sure that they're working veryhard to make the Ukrainians think that,
but I'm glad the White House said that.
And I think it's, you know, I hopethat that's what the line that will be
supported and uh, the policy that will besupported during the meeting and clearly.
(02:31):
This taking place inAlaska is not by mistake.
What's the rationale there?
There's been press reporting obviously,that it has something to do with
the international criminal court.
It takes Europe outta play.
What, what are your thoughts onwhy we're locating this in Alaska?
I think there are a couple of reasons.
One, as you mentioned, this reducesthe, the challenges related to the ICC.
(02:56):
Since Putin has been, uh, indicted, right?
So there are some countries he can'tgo to or he can't go to with a lot,
without a lot of heavy lifting, uh,and a lot of diplomacy, which probably
nobody has the time for right now.
That's one, two, it's, you know,proximity's kind of a. Neutral
spot, although it's not neutral.
I'm very glad that the presidentis making Putin come to him in US
(03:19):
territory in the United States.
Three.
I personally think, I know a lot of peopleare critical of the administration for
doing this meeting in Alaska, but I thinkit's important for one reason, it's good
for Putin to see that there was, thereis territory that was once part of the
Russian Empire, which is not part ofthe Russian Empire today, and will never
be part of the Russian empire again.
Alaska, as many Americansknow, was originally.
(03:42):
Settled by the Russians.
It was sold to the United States over150 years ago in, I remember Seward
Folly, and I forget what we paidfor it, but it was not very much,
was it seven and a half million?
I think it was maybe sevenand a half or 15 million, but
it was, it was a good deal.
Seward, at the time, by the way,was criticized, you know, se Folly
government, the, the White House wascriticized for making the deal, but it
(04:04):
turned out to be a very, very good deal.
Very good real estate deal and itwas part of the Russian Empire.
It is not part of the Russian empiretoday, and that is the same for
Ukraine and other countries thatwere once part of the Russian empire.
Putin should see and should understandthat there are parts of the world
that may have been once part of anempire that are no longer part of
an empire like the United Stateswas part of the British Empire.
(04:26):
We are not part of the British Empire.
Right?
So, you know.
That is my opinion.
And I think that there's a symbolicpiece here that people should focus on.
That's an interesting, yeah, Ifeel like I have not read that one.
And it makes, it makes a lot of sense.
So as we look at what's going on onthe ground, you know, last Friday
was intended to be this ultimatumchange, of course concern for
(04:50):
sanctions if, if things didn't change.
Putin's been pushing hard on the frontlines in Ukraine over the past week.
Very likely is a lead up to thisto assert a little more territory
or dominance on the battlefield.
Well, there have been some developments.
There have been some claims by,by some sources, including Russian
(05:10):
sources, that the Russians have gainedsome, or made some maybe strategic
breakthroughs on the front line, whichI think is inconsistent with the facts.
The Russians have sent somesmall teams into like behind,
you know, Ukrainian lines.
In certain parts of the battlefield,but my understanding is that the
Ukrainians are now doing moppingup operations that the Russians
(05:30):
can't resupply those small teams ofsoldiers that have been infiltrated
behind the, the Ukrainian lines.
I agree with you, the Russians are goingto try to do as much as they can to
seize territory and give the impressionthat they're in control of territory.
Because if the, if the negotiations reallybegin, they're gonna claim those small
teams are in some village, let's say.
(05:52):
Or near Rosk, and then they'regonna claim Rosk is theirs, right?
This is a Russian negotiating tactic.
My own assessment is there will,there's gonna be no deal in Alaska.
There really can't be becauseAlinsky's not gonna be there.
And so then the Russians are gonna usethis to buy a little bit more time.
I think they have sloweddown their airstrikes to some
(06:13):
degree, probably because they'rewaiting for after the summit.
In Alaska, and then they're gonnaturn up the heat again on the
Ukrainians and try to force theUkrainians to surrender more territory.
So they're trying, they're just tryingto improve their negotiating position.
The Russians do this all the time.
Yes.
They go to the negotiating tablewhile they continue strikes.
Uh, just ask the Syrian opposition,anyone that followed the events
(06:34):
in Syria, the Civil War in Syria,on what the Russians did there.
So we, we can learn from that.
Yeah.
No, no surprise.
No surprise.
Yes.
So for negotiating positions, Ithink what we keep reading about is.
You've got Russia wanting terrain, thatthey've taken certain parts of terrain.
They want some guarantees thatUkraine's not gonna further mobilize.
(06:56):
Maybe even demobilize dependingon, on what you're reading.
Obviously a nod towards NATO andno membership for Ukraine there.
How serious, how hard of those,how hard are those in terms
of red lines for the Russians?
Like some of these seem sounrealistic, but can they hold them?
Are they just bargaining chips?
Think the Russians are taking amaximalist position, which is what they
(07:19):
do if they are forced to negotiatingtable, and that requires us to
demonstrate that we're willing to putmore pressure on Moscow and cause more
pain for Vladimir Putin and his regime.
They will probably negotiateaway some of those positions.
They will, they can compromise.
Deals can be made.
It's never easy, and noone should assume that.
(07:41):
They're just gonna show upand say, okay, we agree.
You know, we're gonna re remove ourdemand that Ukraine never be part of nato.
You know, my understanding isthey're still talking about
this silly idea of deification.
If they wanted to do ification,they'd have to fight half of Russia.
I think President Trump said recentlywhen Putin offered to get involved in
negotiations with the Iranians, focuson your own country and your own war.
(08:03):
That should be the, the message.
You know, they're, they're talkingabout, my understanding is all the areas
where they have occupied donts, most ofLuhan, but they're in Zaro, you know,
where they have not taken all of roia,they're, they're demanding that the
Ukrainians seed, all of Zaro to Russia.
Um, and, and Ong, you know, whatis ironic about all this is that
(08:25):
those areas were never, like,that is not Russian territory.
And so.
And the Ukrainians are saying,we're not gonna do that.
We're not gonna surrender territory.
So the million dollar question, again,you're indicating that maybe not a lot
of ground is made here, but there's anassessment that President Trump makes with
Putin and, and then meets with Zelensky.
But if you fast forward a fewweeks or months, but what do you
(08:50):
think ends up happening in the end?
And what's interesting is you and I hadtalked about this many months ago when
we did the interview on combat story.
You're very accurate in whatyou had, uh, assessed then.
So I'm curious now.
What do you think this ends as?
Ryan?
If I could only predict the stock market,that would be, yeah, I'd be doing this
podcast with you in, that's right.
(09:12):
In a jet.
Yeah, in a jet.
That's right.
We've been our yacht.
Oh, that's right.
You know, I think President Trumpis saying he wants an opportunity
to meet with Putin face to face.
Hear Putin's response when he.
Says like we wanna cease for.
That's one of the demands that theUkrainians are making, and I think
that the White House is making andis a very reasonable demand if you
(09:32):
wanna negotiate, stop attacking theUkrainian positions, and the Ukrainians
will stop attacking your positions.
Right?
I think the Ukrainians areprobably ready to do that.
The Russians have shownno willingness to do that.
Goes back to my point about theRussians wanted to say they're
negotiating, sending delegations toGeneva, Vienna, wherever, and then
continuing to attack the president.
Ha, in my opinion.
(09:54):
Has every right, as the leader of theUnited States to have this meeting, every
other president has had their opportunityto engage Putin and the Soviet leaders.
Uh, so I, you know, thisis called diplomacy.
And as the head of state, we shouldsupport him and encourage him to do
what's right here for the United States,which would be to support Ukraine and
(10:16):
to make it clear to Vladimir Putinthat if he does not make a deal, if he
does not agree to some of the terms,and show a willingness to compromise.
Then there will be serious consequences.
And you know, you mentioned thedeadline, president Trump, you know, my
understanding is we went forward on partof the deadline or the consequences, which
are the secondary sanctions on India.
Now the White House is saying, okay,be ready, including our European
(10:40):
partners, be ready to enforce newsanctions because it's not just
gonna be the United States alone.
We all need to do this.
And you know, if it were me.
If I would make myposition clear to Putin.
If Putin doesn't agree to theposition, I'd walk outta the meeting
and say, okay, at midnight tonight,the secondary sanctions start, and
until my Russian counterpart is readyto really negotiate in sincerity,
(11:03):
there's nothing to talk about.
Do you think in the, in theend of this, whether it's a
month down the road or more.
Ukraine ends up losing ground.
I mean, I, listen, the Russians have beentrying to take ground for, for two years.
They've taken some ground, butespecially in the last year,
so they, it's been very slow.
Okay.
They took ground, they lost ground.
They're having a very hard time takingsignificant amounts of territory.
(11:26):
They're paying a tremendous price for it.
Ukrainians have demonstrated that theycan also take ground and you never know
what the Ukrainians, they may have asurprise up their sleeve and they may.
Launch another counteroffensive or offensive where
they take back some ground.
So on the battlefield, howthings are gonna work out.
You know, there are a lot of factors thatgo into what's gonna happen long term.
(11:47):
I do think, this is just myprediction, there will be serious
negotiations in the next few months.
There will be, it may take a meetingin Alaska where Putin is not willing
to show that he's gonna negotiate.
In sincerity, and then whathas to come after that.
I do worry in the end, Ukraine ends uplosing some, which I would hate to see.
I would hate to see it.
(12:08):
I guess a lot of people worry about that.
The only thing I would say is, I saidthis to my Ukrainian friends many
times, if we look at other examples,there have been examples where
countries have temporarily had to giveup control of parts of their country.
Then they were able to takeback that territory over time.
If we look at like Germany afterthe Second World War, it was divided
(12:30):
and split by the Soviet block.
Uh, but eventually it's aunified Germany, thank God today
Germany is a unified country.
There are other examples that we,you know, we talk about Azerbaijan.
The Azeris would've told you,you know, 25% of their territory
was taken away from them in the,uh, gro B War in the nineties.
(12:52):
It's now part of.
Again today.
Mm-hmm.
So it, it may not like, it maynot be immediate, uh, that they
get everything that they want backor that they deserve back, but
over time they could get it back.
Yeah.
That's an interesting take.
Now you travel to Ukraine a lot.
We've talked about that.
(13:13):
You spend time with people who are, whoare leading and making decisions over
there, how would you advise them now?
What, what are they thinkingabout going into this?
I mean, they have been throughyears of bloodshed right?
On this front.
How would I advise them?
You know, I don't know that Iever any place to advise them.
I always say the Ukrainiansshould be advising us.
(13:33):
They have demonstrated to us a resilienceand an ability to do things with very
little, which is pretty incredible.
I would just let them know that.
I think US support is increasing.
You know, I saw a poll recentlywhere support among, let's say
the MAGA population in the UnitedStates is increasing for Ukraine.
I think, um, the Ukrainians, youknow, they're, and I, I don't
(13:57):
think I have to advise them.
I think they're ready to make adeal, like they're ready to be, to
show some willingness to compromise.
But there are red lines forUkraine, and my advice then would
be stick to those red lines.
Like some of the things, like one ofthe things I understand that they agree
to, they had, there was a summit withthe Europeans this week where they said,
we're never gonna agree that Russia shouldallow us or tell us that we can be part
(14:20):
of NATO or part of the European Union.
I agree with that.
That is not Russia's decision.
That is the decision ofKev, the Ukrainian people.
Right.
I agree with you.
I feel like that would be ahard red line for Russia though.
Because as soon as Ukraine goes intonato, the idea of ever setting foot in
there again changes the entire calculus.
(14:41):
Does it not?
It may change the calculus,but let's take a step back.
Why are we fighting the, like,why are they fighting this war?
What is it doing for Russia?
It's not bringing Russia any benefit.
And I, I tried to make this argumentto Russians for years, Ukraine is an
independent country, is not a threatto Russia if you treat it well.
It's actually could bea benefit for Russia.
(15:03):
Clearly agree, yes,right now, you're right.
Many, many people in inRussia don't agree with that.
The level of paranoia is very deep.
The level of concern, and wehave to understand that too.
I mean, we have to be realistic.
I think this is one ofthe reasons why it's good.
President Trump is gonna meet withVladimir Putin, let him hear directly
from Putin and see what kind ofis going going on in Putin's head.
(15:25):
Again, that's diplomacy, and I heard theRussian arguments over and over again.
At the end of the day, if theUkrainian people vote for independence
and the Ukrainian people vote tobe part of the European Union,
then they, that's their decision.
We should never want any country todictate to us, and my own view is the
United States should stand by thosecountries that are, they're just trying
to, you know, assert their sovereignty.
(15:47):
Kind of a, a philosophical questionhere, if I'm trying to, to put on my
realist hat, would you not, as the US,want to back Ukraine and have them.
Fight Russia and bleed Russia out on thisif you're the realist to weaken Russia?
No, no, no.
(16:07):
I mean I, first of all, I don'tknow if I'm a realist or idealist.
I guess on one issue I may be an idealistof, you know, I dunno, like a pessimist.
I'm plenty of issues.
I'm pretty pessimistic.
I am in Camp Ryan.
I wanna stress that.
Okay.
But I don't, you know, theidea of bleeding rush out.
I don't think that's a good idea.
Personally, I think Iagree with the president.
(16:27):
We need to end this war.
I think if you actually, the idea ofbleeding rush out is gonna mean bleeding
the Ukrainians out and we can't do that.
I mean, it's, it's, somebody said thisonce last year when there was a big
debate about uh, how much equipment andassistance we should give the Ukrainians,
and we were kind of giving it dripsand drabs very slow to make decisions.
And someone said like, Washington isready to fight to the last Ukrainian.
(16:50):
I don't support that.
I don't think that's fairto the Ukrainian people.
So let's say in the end here, Russiaends up with some Ukrainian territory.
There's a land swap.
As we've heard the the term.
At this point, do you worry or shouldwe worry about how China might look at
Taiwan if that were an outcome here?
Or is that China taking a smallpiece of land from Taiwan is
(17:13):
highly unlikely no matter what.
I would say, Ryan, that if the, if theleadership of the Communist Party of
the People's Republic of China seesthat Putin gets everything he wants and
doesn't pay a long-term price for whathe did, this land grab, then there's a
danger that they will try and interesting.
Okay.
If they see that he doesn't get everythingthat he wants and that he's paid a serious
(17:36):
price and he's had to suffer, then I thinkthat their calculation will be different.
I would also suggest that they, bythe way, like talking about bleeding
out, my guess is the Chinese are veryhappy to see the Russians expending a
lot of resources and having to turn toBeijing and having to sell to Beijing
at, at discounted prices, you know,oil, gas, whatever the Chinese need.
(17:58):
And I just wanna do like a historicanalogy going back to Alaska.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Why did the Russians have to sell Alaska?
They needed money tofight another war Putin.
Is now in a position where he's,you know, I've argued this before,
there, he's having to sell bitsand pieces of Russia off to who?
To Beijing.
Wow.
So that's in the, that's not inthe interest of the Russian people.
(18:22):
It may be the, in, in thetactical interest of this regime.
It's not in the long-term interest of theRussian people, and it's not in the, our
long-term interest either, I would argue.
Super interesting.
I mean, we talked about it before.
Like what, why Russia even did this?
I mean, is there a good, if you're Putin,what has this earned him in the end?
National pride, maybe?
(18:44):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think what has earnedPutin, that's a great question.
I mean, one is let's try and putourselves in, in the shoes or like in
the seat of Putin and people around him.
There was a legitimate paranoia and fear.
I would argue they didn't, theywere not worried that Ukraine was
gonna invade that thousands of Naziswere gonna come across the border.
I think what they were worriedabout was the I ideological threat
(19:06):
of Ukraine prospering while Russiawas going backwards and Russia
was not developing economically.
You know, I remember, uh, dealingwith Russians in 2017, 18 that were
furious because the UK Ukraine, theEuropean Union, was allowing Ukrainians
to travel to Russia, visa free, Imean, sorry, to Europe, visa free.
(19:26):
And the Russians couldn't do that.
And they were furioussaying like, we are stuck.
We can't go without a sheen visa.
And now the Ukrainians, who let'sface the Russians, look down
on them as the little brothers.
Are living better than we are.
There are stories of when the Russianforces, uh, initially invaded Ukraine
or expanded their invasion in 2022,some of our Ukrainian friends, military
(19:51):
friends told us this story wherethey, they chased the Russians out
of Kyiv and the Russians had writtenall over the walls of apartments and
they, how dare you live like this.
In other words, they had bathrooms,they had running water, they had
washing machines in their apartments,and the Russians were furious
because they don't have that.
The mentality is differentthan our mentality.
(20:13):
Fortunately, we are Americans,we're part of the dream.
We we're a very prosperouscountry for all our faults.
You know, we're a great country.
Many, many Russians, deepdown, they want that.
And I think Putin and the peoplearound them saw that if you, Ukraine
continues to move closer to the west.
And integrate and develop.
It's gonna make people heresay, why are we living with
(20:36):
this guy telling us how to live?
The Ukrainians areelecting their president.
Yeah.
That's why they create this falsenarrative that like, it's like the
government's illegitimate in Kiv.
No.
Ukrainian people votedfor President Zelensky.
They voted him into office.
They have a legislation.
Right?
A legislator, a legislationwhat called the ADA branch.
Like they're part of it.
(20:56):
Sorry.
They elect their mayors.
In Russia, those mayors arelike put in place by the Czar.
Yeah, that's right.
And I'm, I'm very confident many Russiansare like, look, were looking at Ukraine
and saying, why can't we do that?
Like we're Slavic brothers.
Putin says that all the time.
We're Slavic brothers.
The Ukrainians could do it.
Why can't we?
(21:16):
Well, when guys like Putinhear that, that's like, uh,
that's not good for me, right?
Because I'll be the next P Asad.
Except where is he gonna go?
I mean, Asad went to Moscow.
Where's Putin gonna go?
Yang Yang.
So in short, I mean it's for Putin to, I,I'm not putting words in your mouth, but
like, it, it serves him, doesn't reallyserve the rest of the country effectively.
(21:38):
Yeah.
My personal opinion is, serves the ego ofone man and the in small, like the narrow
interest of a small group of people.
It is not serving Russia long term.
It is not serving the interest of Russia.
It's not serving Russian culture.
What Putin did, you know, Ryan,you go to Ukraine and outside of.
One of the cities we visited, we stopped,and there's a monument to the second
(22:00):
World War, like what the Russians,Ukrainians call the great patriotic war.
The Soviets call.
And we were looking, standing withtwo Ukrainian soldiers that we
know, some officers, and I said to'em, you know, it's like Putin has
turned Russia into the fascists.
It's like they spit on the graves ofall these people that fought to roll
back, like the fascist invasion, theNazi invasion of the Soviet Union.
(22:23):
So I don't think long-termthis is good for Russia.
Yeah.
And I tell you, there are a lotof Russians that are now ashamed
to speak Russian in public.
They don't want people, people I knowin the United States three years ago,
four years ago, they were Russians.
Now you talk to 'em, they, well, I'mUkrainian and no, I mean, it's sad.
That's really sad.
You know, nobody's have to live like that.
(22:45):
Putin and, and his regime has donethat to the image of the country.
Interesting.
I once saw a picture and we, we'llcut this out if we can't have it in.
Have you met Vitali Klitschko?
Yes.
Are you, are we allowed to talk aboutthat, like just the stature of this human,
like is he as imposing as the, so themayor of Ukraine, of Kiev, for people
(23:07):
who don't know famous, very famous boxer.
Giant.
I mean, yes.
Can, can his hand just palm your face?
Yeah.
It's like, uh, yeah.
I mean he, he, we wanted to take a selfiewith him and we said, can we ask like
maybe your, uh, assistant take a picture.
He says, why I have the bestselfie stick in the world.
And it's like, you know, he reached acrossthe room with his, and as we were talking
(23:29):
to him, he is sitting there and he is gotlike, you could see these fists like this.
And he's talking and I'm saying to my,and then he's talked about his brother,
you know, he has a brother who's alsoa world champion, also boxer, right?
Yeah.
And I said to one of the guysthat was me, can you imagine if we
had gone to war with these guys?
Take like Ryan's on one leg cleanseon the other who, who take that trend?
Uh, well about that.
(23:50):
You see that guy's like hands, they'relike baseball gloves and what's he like?
He's very, very smart, very smart, verythoughtful, very, very smart, thoughtful.
He's, he's the mayor of thebiggest city, the biggest
municipality in Ukraine right now.
And, uh, he is, got alot on his shoulders.
His staff has a lot on his shoulders.
(24:11):
I was very impressed withour meeting with him.
I, you know, I walked outta there.
He said some very, I'm not gonnago into it here, but he said some
very, very interesting thingsthat were clearly thoughtful.
He's not like a typical kind of just throwsomething out there, politician looking
for votes, or a very, very thoughtful guy.
Some of the Ukrainians that we know toldus, like he's one of the only guys, one of
(24:32):
the only politicians other than Zelenskythat has taken the time to go to the
front to visit the troops on the front.
Wow.
Right.
Okay.
Even that's cool.
Even like when they'rein combat operations.
Okay.
On on, on Christmas Eve or Christmas.
That's awesome.
God, I love that.
Right?
Dude's like a world champion,boxer, badass, giant chiseled.
(24:54):
He still goes and does that whenhe could be on a yacht in the
Mediterranean so far from that.
That's awesome.
Okay, so now you know a thing or twoabout the, uh, the espionage world.
You've got Putin meeting with Trump,Putin as well known his background
in KGB and, and the Intel community.
If you're advising Trump or theadministration going into this meeting.
(25:17):
What are you suggesting?
Not just in the room, like PresidentTrump knows how to handle that, but
is there anything from your timeworking that Russian target that
you would suggest going into this?
Well, the Russians are gonna tryand turn on a charm offensive.
The, my understanding is he's bringingLaro Bellows of the Minister of Defense.
He's bringing Karo Demetri, who's theguy that they kind of roll out with, the
(25:39):
Americans he worked in on Wall Street.
He's very sharp, very sophisticated.
They're gonna try and turnon the charm offensive.
You know, there's supposed to be alunch, I think, after the meeting.
So my understanding is PresidentTrump is gonna meet President
Putin with translators.
That's it, right?
And then by the way, like thepeople in the united say the
president shouldn't meet alone.
(25:59):
Other presidents have done that.
Right?
JFK did it with Khrushchev.
Other people have done it and uh,there's not nothing horrible about that.
And there's a note taker.
Is there not Glenn or No, I thinkthere'll be a note taker usually.
Usually, yeah.
Right.
I think, you know, sometimes theprinciples don't wanna a distraction.
They just wanna focus on getting to knoweach other and talking to each other.
(26:19):
So that's one.
Two, the rush to your question, andI'm sorry for digressing a little
bit, but I, I think the Russiansare gonna try and turn on the charm.
They're gonna talk about all the benefitsthat they can give the United States,
all the mineral rights deals that we canmake, all the money that can be made.
Uh, you know that they'rethe innocent ones here.
That they didn't come up withthis, they didn't start this war.
(26:40):
They've been maligned in theWestern media, which, you
know, the media unfortunately.
People are gonna say, the media in theUnited States has not carried itself
very well in recent years on some issues.
And now, like Americans are a littlebit doubtful sometimes, you know,
their faith in the media has dropped.
And I'm sure the Russians aregonna try and play on that.
They're gonna try and play that, you know,with the president and the, I'm not sure
(27:03):
who the president's taking with them.
My guess is Steve Woff, uh, Idon't know, maybe Marco Rubio,
hopefully, I'm not sure who else.
But they'll, they'll try andthey'll try and, um, you know.
Babo and they're very good at it.
By the way, I'm not gonna lie,like when I worked with, like, met
with the Russians, I enjoyed it.
They're fun people to be around.
Wait, wait, why?
If they're very good at it.
(27:23):
Why do you enjoy that?
Well, because they're, they're smart.
They're, they, they are, how do I say it?
They're savvy in many ways.
They have good sense of humor, you know,so like, like, it's not like they're.
Gonna be credence, uh,they're gonna do the opposite.
Now, the, the president and his team, myadvice is be very, very careful because
(27:46):
that a lot of that is a facade, right?
It's a game.
They've gotta know thatthough, right, Glenn?
They gotta know that.
I hope so.
I mean, you know, the president of theUnited States is not a, you know, he's not
like right out of high school or college.
He did business in New York for years.
He must know what.
Complicated, tricky people are allabout, and how people can turn on
the charm, you know, then stab youin the back as soon as you can.
(28:10):
And I, you know, I, I've written aboutthis, but Putin wants to show the world
that he's dominating President Trump,that he's in a position of strength and
that he's an equal at a minimum to Trump.
I think President Trump needs toshow Putin that ain't the case.
What about some of the critiques?
We'll hear that even having thismeeting where Putin gets to be.
In proximity to Trump is,is a win for, for Putin?
(28:35):
Well, there, there may be somewin for Putin, but with with whom?
Like, who's the win for it?
First of all, we, in the us themedia, if that's the tack we
take, we're just giving him a win.
Right?
We, in a way can control thatif we control our initial
instincts to say it's all bad.
President Biden met with,with, uh, with Putin in 2021.
(28:57):
In Switzerland, they had a summit.
Even though Russian troops wereoccupying part of Ukraine were
killing Ukrainians, they had a summit.
You know, every president, presidentObama met with Putin, president
Bush, uh, junior met with Putin.
So I'm not against diplomacy.
I'm not against trying to have some kindof dialogue that that is very important.
Like you can't resolveeverything with war.
(29:20):
I think we should have probablylearned that in the last, you
know, 30 years in this country.
Not always the way, it's, it's veryimportant to have the most powerful
military in the world and to be ableto project power when you have to.
But if you can resolve problemsthrough negotiations, through
dialogue, that's even better.
Right?
And so, going into this meeting, Ithink President Trump understands
what he's dealing with.
(29:40):
Maybe, you know, maybe not the way thatmost people in Washington understand it.
And I think this is what'schallenging for a lot of people today.
President Trump is, he's adifferent type of thinker.
Marco Rubio said after they, theyrecognized, you know, the Syrian
government, I heard him testify toCongress and he said, look, like
we're taking a bit of a risk here.
We're doing something.
You know, in the past we'd havespent two years debating whether we
(30:02):
should do this or not in Washington.
We just made the decision to do it,move quickly because we can't lose
time because waiting two years willmean like we'll be, well, Syria would
back into a, like a pit of vipersand terrorism and extremism, right.
We're taking a risk.
It may work, it may not work.
We have to accept that, butsometimes you gotta take a risk.
(30:23):
So I, I applaud that personally.
And it sounds like not havingzelensky at the table for this meeting
makes sense for several reasons.
If it's just to really assess Putinand his willingness to to come along.
And if you're gonna meet withZelensky later, there's been a lot
of heat about not having Zelenskyat this particular meeting.
Yeah.
And if you stick to the policy thatwe're not making any deal, this is
(30:47):
not to discuss the future of Ukraine,this is to set up the next meeting.
To find out whether Putinis even ready to do that.
If Putin is not, then we go to plan B,which is not the best alternative I think.
When we talk about secondary sanctions,some of the things that, you know, I
have advocated for that's gonna causepain for all our allies, it's gonna cause
(31:09):
some challenges in our relationships withother, we have to be realistic about that.
Like we don't operate in a vacuum.
So if we, if Putin can come outtathe meeting and say, okay, I will,
I will order a, a cessation of allhostilities and we're gonna start
negotiations, that would be a good thing.
I think right now it's not overyet, but it would be a good start.
And the only way to do that isto have this meeting, I think.
(31:31):
For the president to look, I, you know,look, you know, sit face to face with
Putin without a lot of distractions.
And maybe you're right.
I mean, I have mixed feelings about this.
I kind of wish the president had invitedZelensky to Alaska and told President
Putin, this is my country, he's my guest.
But I see what you're saying.
And that makes sense too, like letthem meet first, talk to each other.
(31:53):
And then set the stage for a, atrilateral meeting, or President
Trump has said maybe some of ourEuropean partners there as well.
I'll get you outta here on thisquestion, Glen, but, uh, I mean,
you know the Russians better thananyone I'll ever come across.
What is it that you think would hithardest to bring the Russians to.
The table or just bring themin line a little bit more?
(32:16):
Well, I think that there are, you know,we, we've talked a little bit and there
are a lot of ideas on the table aboutways to put more pressure on Moscow.
One is secondary sanctions,increasing the sanctions.
Two is increasing aid to the Ukrainians,you know, supplying them with more.
Okay.
Yeah.
And this White House has saidthat we will, we will sell more
equipment to the Europeans to.
(32:38):
Support the Ukrainians.
Maybe we change that position,you know, give it directly to
Ukrainians in the future as a signthat like we're going right to them.
So there are other things we could do too.
I mean, you could go down thegamut of, you know, responses.
By the way, I think that weshould, you know, not just,
it's not just Ukraine worldwide.
Wherever the Russians were causinghavoc, we should support those
(33:00):
people that are pushing back.
It's kind of the Ron RonaldReagan approach or the rollback.
What's an example of that, Glen?
Sorry, is that Africa?
You're thinking maybe Africa, LatinAmerica, the Western hemisphere,
like some of their allies there.
Maybe they should feela little bit of heat.
Interesting and Right.
But one thing too, Ryan, which it's nota very popular thing to say with many
(33:20):
people in the United States today, so Ihope we don't get any death threats on
restricted handling, but we also haveto think, we're talking about the stick.
What is the carrot?
What is the incentive?
How do we incentivizethe Russians to behavior?
There's one thing I've said for years.
We're not very good at it.
You know, starting in 2014, like I'mnot suggesting that we shouldn't have
sanctioned the Russians we shouldhave for what they did, but we also
(33:43):
need to think when they do somethingthat is tangible and is positive,
how do, how do we respond to that?
How do we show them that, you know, thatis not a, like we see that as a good thing
and it's in our national interest, and so.
What do we do there?
This is gonna be very, very trickybecause the Russians obviously want
us to remove all the sanctions andlet their economy thrive again.
(34:05):
The Ukrainians are very worried thatthat's gonna happen and the Russians
are gonna use that to then re-arm theirmilitary, start a new offensive in five
years, two years, 10 years, you name it.
You know, you ask before,like, how does this all end?
If you ask many Ukrainians, they sayit's been going on for hundreds of years.
Yeah.
Does it ever end?
I dunno.
I mean, that's the kindof pessimist in me.
(34:25):
We do need to think about whatare the incentives, the tangible
things that Russia could do.
For example, withdrawing fromUkrainian territory, right?
Big what, how, right?
Big.
How would we respond, right?
And then we have to thinkabout the long-term impact
on both Ukraine and Russia.
And that means the entire worldof all of the destruction and all
(34:49):
of the, let's say, PTSD issues.
We're gonna be facing, um, youknow, societal disruption in both
countries where hundreds of thousandsof citizens have been at war, where
children, especially on the Ukrainianside, this is a heartbreaker.
Children have been subjected tothe horrors of war in a way that no
child should ever be subjected to.
Yeah.
(35:10):
How are we in the UnitedStates and the west?
The rest of the world going to respond.
You know, the, the war in Ukraine, let'ssay that there's a ceasefire tomorrow.
Our work just begins.
I think, yeah.
Interesting.
And with Russia, we need to think abouthow do we incentivize the Russians?
So there, there has tobe some kind of carrot.
(35:32):
This is great.
Glen, anything we missed or that,uh, talking points that you think
we need to, to land with folks?
No, but I wanna go back to our first,uh, encounter together on the show
back when, I don't know, 2023 or.
When I was with you, with Gavin?
Yeah.
Yep.
Right in your studio,which is a great, uh, day.
(35:52):
By the way, Ryan has really good beer.
Anybody.
That's why I was drunk at the, I might,I might be having some right now.
Possibly.
Cheers.
We say Ukrainian.
What is it?
Wooo.
What is it?
Budah Budah.
Hmm.
All right.
But I do wanna say it's likeyou're like a Russia expert.
I'm not a Russia expert.
Nobody is a Russia expert, in my opinion.
(36:13):
So, for all your listeners, if someonetells you that they, they really
understand Russia, be very careful becauseit's very, very, very, even Russians don't
understand their country, in my opinion.
So I, I see a lot of people out therepromoting themselves as Russia experts.
I wanna stress that I am not really,I mean, I'm a Long Island expert.
I lo I understand Long Island.
Gimme a break.
(36:33):
Alright.
I don't.
Hey, but Glen, for those who aren'twatching, your haircut is looking good.
It's sharp.
Thank you.
You're gonna be on TV this weekend.
I don't know if we could talk aboutit, but let's not talk about you.
All right.
But you're looking good.
You're looking good.
Yeah.
You look marvelous.
All right, until next time everybody,thank you for tuning in and, uh, if
(36:57):
you're interested in getting a daily,take, a little daily Intel brief on
what's going on in Russia, China,Iran, middle East, some other places.
We've got something curatedwith just, uh, open source.
You can go to restricted handling.comand sign up and you'll get
that in your inbox every, uh,Monday to Friday in the morning.
I recommend it.
Really great thing thatBrian put together.
(37:17):
So, yeah, outstanding work.
Alright, thanks so much.
Welcome, freedom Loving People.
This is a Restricted Handling podcast.
I am one of your co-host RyanFut, army veteran covering
gun pilot, former CIA officer.
I'm joined with a dear friend, longtimeCIA Officer, senior Intelligence
Service, multi chief of Station in someof the tougher places when it comes
(00:21):
to the front lines for US NationalSecurity, Europe Eurasia experts.
34 years in the belly of the Beast betweenArmy, state Department and CIA Glenn Korn.
Hey Ryan.
Nice to see you.
Hello everybody.
Thank you for the introduction andas, as we need to say, the opinions
shared here are our own and we areno longer part of the government.
(00:43):
This is opinions from Two former.
Although we do pay ourtaxes, we wanna stress that.
That is true.
That's true, especially me in California.
We're part of the no comment.
We're part of the dream.
Okay, so we got a lot going on.
We are hours away from Trumpand Putin meeting US military
installation in Anchorage, Alaska.
(01:06):
This could, could have tremendoussignificance, and the reason we're talking
is what impact is it gonna have and getinsights from somebody who knows like you.
So, Glenn, as we kick off, how would youset the stage for, for what's coming here?
How do I set the stage?
Obviously everybody is watching.
This is a kinda high stakes meeting,although it may not be as high stakes
(01:28):
as it's kind of being billed because Iunderstand the president and, uh, the
White House are saying that this isjust an opportunity for the president
to hear for himself and engageddirectly with, uh, Vladimir Putin on
the issue of ending the war in Ukraine.
I think that, you know, from whatI'm reading in the media, this is
all kinda open source, is that.
(01:49):
There's not a lot of highexpectations that there're
gonna be a major breakthrough.
I think one of the goals of the meeting isto set up another meeting where President
Zelinsky, the Ukrainian president, willhave the opportunity to meet directly
with President Trump and President Putin.
And one thing I think is reassuringis that the White House has said that
there'll be no deal made with theRussians on the future of Ukraine
(02:09):
without Ukrainians at the table.
That is very, very important.
I think Putin may try to.
Present the impressionthat that's happening.
And I'm sure that they're working veryhard to make the Ukrainians think that,
but I'm glad the White House said that.
And I think it's, you know, I hopethat that's what the line that will be
supported and uh, the policy that will besupported during the meeting and clearly.
(02:31):
This taking place inAlaska is not by mistake.
What's the rationale there?
There's been press reporting obviously,that it has something to do with
the international criminal court.
It takes Europe outta play.
What, what are your thoughts onwhy we're locating this in Alaska?
I think there are a couple of reasons.
One, as you mentioned, this reducesthe, the challenges related to the ICC.
(02:56):
Since Putin has been, uh, indicted, right?
So there are some countries he can'tgo to or he can't go to with a lot,
without a lot of heavy lifting, uh,and a lot of diplomacy, which probably
nobody has the time for right now.
That's one, two, it's, you know,proximity's kind of a. Neutral
spot, although it's not neutral.
I'm very glad that the presidentis making Putin come to him in US
(03:19):
territory in the United States.
Three.
I personally think, I know a lot of peopleare critical of the administration for
doing this meeting in Alaska, but I thinkit's important for one reason, it's good
for Putin to see that there was, thereis territory that was once part of the
Russian Empire, which is not part ofthe Russian Empire today, and will never
be part of the Russian empire again.
Alaska, as many Americansknow, was originally.
(03:42):
Settled by the Russians.
It was sold to the United States over150 years ago in, I remember Seward
Folly, and I forget what we paidfor it, but it was not very much,
was it seven and a half million?
I think it was maybe sevenand a half or 15 million, but
it was, it was a good deal.
Seward, at the time, by the way,was criticized, you know, se Folly
government, the, the White House wascriticized for making the deal, but it
(04:04):
turned out to be a very, very good deal.
Very good real estate deal and itwas part of the Russian Empire.
It is not part of the Russian empiretoday, and that is the same for
Ukraine and other countries thatwere once part of the Russian empire.
Putin should see and should understandthat there are parts of the world
that may have been once part of anempire that are no longer part of
an empire like the United Stateswas part of the British Empire.
(04:26):
We are not part of the British Empire.
Right?
So, you know.
That is my opinion.
And I think that there's a symbolicpiece here that people should focus on.
That's an interesting, yeah, Ifeel like I have not read that one.
And it makes, it makes a lot of sense.
So as we look at what's going on onthe ground, you know, last Friday
was intended to be this ultimatumchange, of course concern for
(04:50):
sanctions if, if things didn't change.
Putin's been pushing hard on the frontlines in Ukraine over the past week.
Very likely is a lead up to thisto assert a little more territory
or dominance on the battlefield.
Well, there have been some developments.
There have been some claims by,by some sources, including Russian
(05:10):
sources, that the Russians have gainedsome, or made some maybe strategic
breakthroughs on the front line, whichI think is inconsistent with the facts.
The Russians have sent somesmall teams into like behind,
you know, Ukrainian lines.
In certain parts of the battlefield,but my understanding is that the
Ukrainians are now doing moppingup operations that the Russians
(05:30):
can't resupply those small teams ofsoldiers that have been infiltrated
behind the, the Ukrainian lines.
I agree with you, the Russians are goingto try to do as much as they can to
seize territory and give the impressionthat they're in control of territory.
Because if the, if the negotiations reallybegin, they're gonna claim those small
teams are in some village, let's say.
(05:52):
Or near Rosk, and then they'regonna claim Rosk is theirs, right?
This is a Russian negotiating tactic.
My own assessment is there will,there's gonna be no deal in Alaska.
There really can't be becauseAlinsky's not gonna be there.
And so then the Russians are gonna usethis to buy a little bit more time.
I think they have sloweddown their airstrikes to some
(06:13):
degree, probably because they'rewaiting for after the summit.
In Alaska, and then they're gonnaturn up the heat again on the
Ukrainians and try to force theUkrainians to surrender more territory.
So they're trying, they're just tryingto improve their negotiating position.
The Russians do this all the time.
Yes.
They go to the negotiating tablewhile they continue strikes.
Uh, just ask the Syrian opposition,anyone that followed the events
(06:34):
in Syria, the Civil War in Syria,on what the Russians did there.
So we, we can learn from that.
Yeah.
No, no surprise.
No surprise.
Yes.
So for negotiating positions, Ithink what we keep reading about is.
You've got Russia wanting terrain, thatthey've taken certain parts of terrain.
They want some guarantees thatUkraine's not gonna further mobilize.
(06:56):
Maybe even demobilize dependingon, on what you're reading.
Obviously a nod towards NATO andno membership for Ukraine there.
How serious, how hard of those,how hard are those in terms
of red lines for the Russians?
Like some of these seem sounrealistic, but can they hold them?
Are they just bargaining chips?
Think the Russians are taking amaximalist position, which is what they
(07:19):
do if they are forced to negotiatingtable, and that requires us to
demonstrate that we're willing to putmore pressure on Moscow and cause more
pain for Vladimir Putin and his regime.
They will probably negotiateaway some of those positions.
They will, they can compromise.
Deals can be made.
It's never easy, and noone should assume that.
(07:41):
They're just gonna show upand say, okay, we agree.
You know, we're gonna re remove ourdemand that Ukraine never be part of nato.
You know, my understanding isthey're still talking about
this silly idea of deification.
If they wanted to do ification,they'd have to fight half of Russia.
I think President Trump said recentlywhen Putin offered to get involved in
negotiations with the Iranians, focuson your own country and your own war.
(08:03):
That should be the, the message.
You know, they're, they're talkingabout, my understanding is all the areas
where they have occupied donts, most ofLuhan, but they're in Zaro, you know,
where they have not taken all of roia,they're, they're demanding that the
Ukrainians seed, all of Zaro to Russia.
Um, and, and Ong, you know, whatis ironic about all this is that
(08:25):
those areas were never, like,that is not Russian territory.
And so.
And the Ukrainians are saying,we're not gonna do that.
We're not gonna surrender territory.
So the million dollar question, again,you're indicating that maybe not a lot
of ground is made here, but there's anassessment that President Trump makes with
Putin and, and then meets with Zelensky.
But if you fast forward a fewweeks or months, but what do you
(08:50):
think ends up happening in the end?
And what's interesting is you and I hadtalked about this many months ago when
we did the interview on combat story.
You're very accurate in whatyou had, uh, assessed then.
So I'm curious now.
What do you think this ends as?
Ryan?
If I could only predict the stock market,that would be, yeah, I'd be doing this
podcast with you in, that's right.
(09:12):
In a jet.
Yeah, in a jet.
That's right.
We've been our yacht.
Oh, that's right.
You know, I think President Trumpis saying he wants an opportunity
to meet with Putin face to face.
Hear Putin's response when he.
Says like we wanna cease for.
That's one of the demands that theUkrainians are making, and I think
that the White House is making andis a very reasonable demand if you
(09:32):
wanna negotiate, stop attacking theUkrainian positions, and the Ukrainians
will stop attacking your positions.
Right?
I think the Ukrainians areprobably ready to do that.
The Russians have shownno willingness to do that.
Goes back to my point about theRussians wanted to say they're
negotiating, sending delegations toGeneva, Vienna, wherever, and then
continuing to attack the president.
Ha, in my opinion.
(09:54):
Has every right, as the leader of theUnited States to have this meeting, every
other president has had their opportunityto engage Putin and the Soviet leaders.
Uh, so I, you know, thisis called diplomacy.
And as the head of state, we shouldsupport him and encourage him to do
what's right here for the United States,which would be to support Ukraine and
(10:16):
to make it clear to Vladimir Putinthat if he does not make a deal, if he
does not agree to some of the terms,and show a willingness to compromise.
Then there will be serious consequences.
And you know, you mentioned thedeadline, president Trump, you know, my
understanding is we went forward on partof the deadline or the consequences, which
are the secondary sanctions on India.
Now the White House is saying, okay,be ready, including our European
(10:40):
partners, be ready to enforce newsanctions because it's not just
gonna be the United States alone.
We all need to do this.
And you know, if it were me.
If I would make myposition clear to Putin.
If Putin doesn't agree to theposition, I'd walk outta the meeting
and say, okay, at midnight tonight,the secondary sanctions start, and
until my Russian counterpart is readyto really negotiate in sincerity,
(11:03):
there's nothing to talk about.
Do you think in the, in theend of this, whether it's a
month down the road or more.
Ukraine ends up losing ground.
I mean, I, listen, the Russians have beentrying to take ground for, for two years.
They've taken some ground, butespecially in the last year,
so they, it's been very slow.
Okay.
They took ground, they lost ground.
They're having a very hard time takingsignificant amounts of territory.
(11:26):
They're paying a tremendous price for it.
Ukrainians have demonstrated that theycan also take ground and you never know
what the Ukrainians, they may have asurprise up their sleeve and they may.
Launch another counteroffensive or offensive where
they take back some ground.
So on the battlefield, howthings are gonna work out.
You know, there are a lot of factors thatgo into what's gonna happen long term.
(11:47):
I do think, this is just myprediction, there will be serious
negotiations in the next few months.
There will be, it may take a meetingin Alaska where Putin is not willing
to show that he's gonna negotiate.
In sincerity, and then whathas to come after that.
I do worry in the end, Ukraine ends uplosing some, which I would hate to see.
I would hate to see it.
(12:08):
I guess a lot of people worry about that.
The only thing I would say is, I saidthis to my Ukrainian friends many
times, if we look at other examples,there have been examples where
countries have temporarily had to giveup control of parts of their country.
Then they were able to takeback that territory over time.
If we look at like Germany afterthe Second World War, it was divided
(12:30):
and split by the Soviet block.
Uh, but eventually it's aunified Germany, thank God today
Germany is a unified country.
There are other examples that we,you know, we talk about Azerbaijan.
The Azeris would've told you,you know, 25% of their territory
was taken away from them in the,uh, gro B War in the nineties.
(12:52):
It's now part of.
Again today.
Mm-hmm.
So it, it may not like, it maynot be immediate, uh, that they
get everything that they want backor that they deserve back, but
over time they could get it back.
Yeah.
That's an interesting take.
Now you travel to Ukraine a lot.
We've talked about that.
(13:13):
You spend time with people who are, whoare leading and making decisions over
there, how would you advise them now?
What, what are they thinkingabout going into this?
I mean, they have been throughyears of bloodshed right?
On this front.
How would I advise them?
You know, I don't know that Iever any place to advise them.
I always say the Ukrainiansshould be advising us.
(13:33):
They have demonstrated to us a resilienceand an ability to do things with very
little, which is pretty incredible.
I would just let them know that.
I think US support is increasing.
You know, I saw a poll recentlywhere support among, let's say
the MAGA population in the UnitedStates is increasing for Ukraine.
I think, um, the Ukrainians, youknow, they're, and I, I don't
(13:57):
think I have to advise them.
I think they're ready to make adeal, like they're ready to be, to
show some willingness to compromise.
But there are red lines forUkraine, and my advice then would
be stick to those red lines.
Like some of the things, like one ofthe things I understand that they agree
to, they had, there was a summit withthe Europeans this week where they said,
we're never gonna agree that Russia shouldallow us or tell us that we can be part
(14:20):
of NATO or part of the European Union.
I agree with that.
That is not Russia's decision.
That is the decision ofKev, the Ukrainian people.
Right.
I agree with you.
I feel like that would be ahard red line for Russia though.
Because as soon as Ukraine goes intonato, the idea of ever setting foot in
there again changes the entire calculus.
(14:41):
Does it not?
It may change the calculus,but let's take a step back.
Why are we fighting the, like,why are they fighting this war?
What is it doing for Russia?
It's not bringing Russia any benefit.
And I, I tried to make this argumentto Russians for years, Ukraine is an
independent country, is not a threatto Russia if you treat it well.
It's actually could bea benefit for Russia.
(15:03):
Clearly agree, yes,right now, you're right.
Many, many people in inRussia don't agree with that.
The level of paranoia is very deep.
The level of concern, and wehave to understand that too.
I mean, we have to be realistic.
I think this is one ofthe reasons why it's good.
President Trump is gonna meet withVladimir Putin, let him hear directly
from Putin and see what kind ofis going going on in Putin's head.
(15:25):
Again, that's diplomacy, and I heard theRussian arguments over and over again.
At the end of the day, if theUkrainian people vote for independence
and the Ukrainian people vote tobe part of the European Union,
then they, that's their decision.
We should never want any country todictate to us, and my own view is the
United States should stand by thosecountries that are, they're just trying
to, you know, assert their sovereignty.
(15:47):
Kind of a, a philosophical questionhere, if I'm trying to, to put on my
realist hat, would you not, as the US,want to back Ukraine and have them.
Fight Russia and bleed Russia out on thisif you're the realist to weaken Russia?
No, no, no.
(16:07):
I mean I, first of all, I don'tknow if I'm a realist or idealist.
I guess on one issue I may be an idealistof, you know, I dunno, like a pessimist.
I'm plenty of issues.
I'm pretty pessimistic.
I am in Camp Ryan.
I wanna stress that.
Okay.
But I don't, you know, theidea of bleeding rush out.
I don't think that's a good idea.
Personally, I think Iagree with the president.
(16:27):
We need to end this war.
I think if you actually, the idea ofbleeding rush out is gonna mean bleeding
the Ukrainians out and we can't do that.
I mean, it's, it's, somebody said thisonce last year when there was a big
debate about uh, how much equipment andassistance we should give the Ukrainians,
and we were kind of giving it dripsand drabs very slow to make decisions.
And someone said like, Washington isready to fight to the last Ukrainian.
(16:50):
I don't support that.
I don't think that's fairto the Ukrainian people.
So let's say in the end here, Russiaends up with some Ukrainian territory.
There's a land swap.
As we've heard the the term.
At this point, do you worry or shouldwe worry about how China might look at
Taiwan if that were an outcome here?
Or is that China taking a smallpiece of land from Taiwan is
(17:13):
highly unlikely no matter what.
I would say, Ryan, that if the, if theleadership of the Communist Party of
the People's Republic of China seesthat Putin gets everything he wants and
doesn't pay a long-term price for whathe did, this land grab, then there's a
danger that they will try and interesting.
Okay.
If they see that he doesn't get everythingthat he wants and that he's paid a serious
(17:36):
price and he's had to suffer, then I thinkthat their calculation will be different.
I would also suggest that they, bythe way, like talking about bleeding
out, my guess is the Chinese are veryhappy to see the Russians expending a
lot of resources and having to turn toBeijing and having to sell to Beijing
at, at discounted prices, you know,oil, gas, whatever the Chinese need.
(17:58):
And I just wanna do like a historicanalogy going back to Alaska.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Why did the Russians have to sell Alaska?
They needed money tofight another war Putin.
Is now in a position where he's,you know, I've argued this before,
there, he's having to sell bitsand pieces of Russia off to who?
To Beijing.
Wow.
So that's in the, that's not inthe interest of the Russian people.
(18:22):
It may be the, in, in thetactical interest of this regime.
It's not in the long-term interest of theRussian people, and it's not in the, our
long-term interest either, I would argue.
Super interesting.
I mean, we talked about it before.
Like what, why Russia even did this?
I mean, is there a good, if you're Putin,what has this earned him in the end?
National pride, maybe?
(18:44):
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think what has earnedPutin, that's a great question.
I mean, one is let's try and putourselves in, in the shoes or like in
the seat of Putin and people around him.
There was a legitimate paranoia and fear.
I would argue they didn't, theywere not worried that Ukraine was
gonna invade that thousands of Naziswere gonna come across the border.
I think what they were worriedabout was the I ideological threat
(19:06):
of Ukraine prospering while Russiawas going backwards and Russia
was not developing economically.
You know, I remember, uh, dealingwith Russians in 2017, 18 that were
furious because the UK Ukraine, theEuropean Union, was allowing Ukrainians
to travel to Russia, visa free, Imean, sorry, to Europe, visa free.
(19:26):
And the Russians couldn't do that.
And they were furioussaying like, we are stuck.
We can't go without a sheen visa.
And now the Ukrainians, who let'sface the Russians, look down
on them as the little brothers.
Are living better than we are.
There are stories of when the Russianforces, uh, initially invaded Ukraine
or expanded their invasion in 2022,some of our Ukrainian friends, military
(19:51):
friends told us this story wherethey, they chased the Russians out
of Kyiv and the Russians had writtenall over the walls of apartments and
they, how dare you live like this.
In other words, they had bathrooms,they had running water, they had
washing machines in their apartments,and the Russians were furious
because they don't have that.
The mentality is differentthan our mentality.
(20:13):
Fortunately, we are Americans,we're part of the dream.
We we're a very prosperouscountry for all our faults.
You know, we're a great country.
Many, many Russians, deepdown, they want that.
And I think Putin and the peoplearound them saw that if you, Ukraine
continues to move closer to the west.
And integrate and develop.
It's gonna make people heresay, why are we living with
(20:36):
this guy telling us how to live?
The Ukrainians areelecting their president.
Yeah.
That's why they create this falsenarrative that like, it's like the
government's illegitimate in Kiv.
No.
Ukrainian people votedfor President Zelensky.
They voted him into office.
They have a legislation.
Right?
A legislator, a legislationwhat called the ADA branch.
Like they're part of it.
(20:56):
Sorry.
They elect their mayors.
In Russia, those mayors arelike put in place by the Czar.
Yeah, that's right.
And I'm, I'm very confident many Russiansare like, look, were looking at Ukraine
and saying, why can't we do that?
Like we're Slavic brothers.
Putin says that all the time.
We're Slavic brothers.
The Ukrainians could do it.
Why can't we?
(21:16):
Well, when guys like Putinhear that, that's like, uh,
that's not good for me, right?
Because I'll be the next P Asad.
Except where is he gonna go?
I mean, Asad went to Moscow.
Where's Putin gonna go?
Yang Yang.
So in short, I mean it's for Putin to, I,I'm not putting words in your mouth, but
like, it, it serves him, doesn't reallyserve the rest of the country effectively.
(21:38):
Yeah.
My personal opinion is, serves the ego ofone man and the in small, like the narrow
interest of a small group of people.
It is not serving Russia long term.
It is not serving the interest of Russia.
It's not serving Russian culture.
What Putin did, you know, Ryan,you go to Ukraine and outside of.
One of the cities we visited, we stopped,and there's a monument to the second
(22:00):
World War, like what the Russians,Ukrainians call the great patriotic war.
The Soviets call.
And we were looking, standing withtwo Ukrainian soldiers that we
know, some officers, and I said to'em, you know, it's like Putin has
turned Russia into the fascists.
It's like they spit on the graves ofall these people that fought to roll
back, like the fascist invasion, theNazi invasion of the Soviet Union.
(22:23):
So I don't think long-termthis is good for Russia.
Yeah.
And I tell you, there are a lotof Russians that are now ashamed
to speak Russian in public.
They don't want people, people I knowin the United States three years ago,
four years ago, they were Russians.
Now you talk to 'em, they, well, I'mUkrainian and no, I mean, it's sad.
That's really sad.
You know, nobody's have to live like that.
(22:45):
Putin and, and his regime has donethat to the image of the country.
Interesting.
I once saw a picture and we, we'llcut this out if we can't have it in.
Have you met Vitali Klitschko?
Yes.
Are you, are we allowed to talk aboutthat, like just the stature of this human,
like is he as imposing as the, so themayor of Ukraine, of Kiev, for people
(23:07):
who don't know famous, very famous boxer.
Giant.
I mean, yes.
Can, can his hand just palm your face?
Yeah.
It's like, uh, yeah.
I mean he, he, we wanted to take a selfiewith him and we said, can we ask like
maybe your, uh, assistant take a picture.
He says, why I have the bestselfie stick in the world.
And it's like, you know, he reached acrossthe room with his, and as we were talking
(23:29):
to him, he is sitting there and he is gotlike, you could see these fists like this.
And he's talking and I'm saying to my,and then he's talked about his brother,
you know, he has a brother who's alsoa world champion, also boxer, right?
Yeah.
And I said to one of the guysthat was me, can you imagine if we
had gone to war with these guys?
Take like Ryan's on one leg cleanseon the other who, who take that trend?
Uh, well about that.
(23:50):
You see that guy's like hands, they'relike baseball gloves and what's he like?
He's very, very smart, very smart, verythoughtful, very, very smart, thoughtful.
He's, he's the mayor of thebiggest city, the biggest
municipality in Ukraine right now.
And, uh, he is, got alot on his shoulders.
His staff has a lot on his shoulders.
(24:11):
I was very impressed withour meeting with him.
I, you know, I walked outta there.
He said some very, I'm not gonnago into it here, but he said some
very, very interesting thingsthat were clearly thoughtful.
He's not like a typical kind of just throwsomething out there, politician looking
for votes, or a very, very thoughtful guy.
Some of the Ukrainians that we know toldus, like he's one of the only guys, one of
(24:32):
the only politicians other than Zelenskythat has taken the time to go to the
front to visit the troops on the front.
Wow.
Right.
Okay.
Even that's cool.
Even like when they'rein combat operations.
Okay.
On on, on Christmas Eve or Christmas.
That's awesome.
God, I love that.
Right?
Dude's like a world champion,boxer, badass, giant chiseled.
(24:54):
He still goes and does that whenhe could be on a yacht in the
Mediterranean so far from that.
That's awesome.
Okay, so now you know a thing or twoabout the, uh, the espionage world.
You've got Putin meeting with Trump,Putin as well known his background
in KGB and, and the Intel community.
If you're advising Trump or theadministration going into this meeting.
(25:17):
What are you suggesting?
Not just in the room, like PresidentTrump knows how to handle that, but
is there anything from your timeworking that Russian target that
you would suggest going into this?
Well, the Russians are gonna tryand turn on a charm offensive.
The, my understanding is he's bringingLaro Bellows of the Minister of Defense.
He's bringing Karo Demetri, who's theguy that they kind of roll out with, the
(25:39):
Americans he worked in on Wall Street.
He's very sharp, very sophisticated.
They're gonna try and turnon the charm offensive.
You know, there's supposed to be alunch, I think, after the meeting.
So my understanding is PresidentTrump is gonna meet President
Putin with translators.
That's it, right?
And then by the way, like thepeople in the united say the
president shouldn't meet alone.
(25:59):
Other presidents have done that.
Right?
JFK did it with Khrushchev.
Other people have done it and uh,there's not nothing horrible about that.
And there's a note taker.
Is there not Glenn or No, I thinkthere'll be a note taker usually.
Usually, yeah.
Right.
I think, you know, sometimes theprinciples don't wanna a distraction.
They just wanna focus on getting to knoweach other and talking to each other.
(26:19):
So that's one.
Two, the rush to your question, andI'm sorry for digressing a little
bit, but I, I think the Russiansare gonna try and turn on the charm.
They're gonna talk about all the benefitsthat they can give the United States,
all the mineral rights deals that we canmake, all the money that can be made.
Uh, you know that they'rethe innocent ones here.
That they didn't come up withthis, they didn't start this war.
(26:40):
They've been maligned in theWestern media, which, you
know, the media unfortunately.
People are gonna say, the media in theUnited States has not carried itself
very well in recent years on some issues.
And now, like Americans are a littlebit doubtful sometimes, you know,
their faith in the media has dropped.
And I'm sure the Russians aregonna try and play on that.
They're gonna try and play that, you know,with the president and the, I'm not sure
(27:03):
who the president's taking with them.
My guess is Steve Woff, uh, Idon't know, maybe Marco Rubio,
hopefully, I'm not sure who else.
But they'll, they'll try andthey'll try and, um, you know.
Babo and they're very good at it.
By the way, I'm not gonna lie,like when I worked with, like, met
with the Russians, I enjoyed it.
They're fun people to be around.
Wait, wait, why?
If they're very good at it.
(27:23):
Why do you enjoy that?
Well, because they're, they're smart.
They're, they, they are, how do I say it?
They're savvy in many ways.
They have good sense of humor, you know,so like, like, it's not like they're.
Gonna be credence, uh,they're gonna do the opposite.
Now, the, the president and his team, myadvice is be very, very careful because
(27:46):
that a lot of that is a facade, right?
It's a game.
They've gotta know thatthough, right, Glenn?
They gotta know that.
I hope so.
I mean, you know, the president of theUnited States is not a, you know, he's not
like right out of high school or college.
He did business in New York for years.
He must know what.
Complicated, tricky people are allabout, and how people can turn on
the charm, you know, then stab youin the back as soon as you can.
(28:10):
And I, you know, I, I've written aboutthis, but Putin wants to show the world
that he's dominating President Trump,that he's in a position of strength and
that he's an equal at a minimum to Trump.
I think President Trump needs toshow Putin that ain't the case.
What about some of the critiques?
We'll hear that even having thismeeting where Putin gets to be.
In proximity to Trump is,is a win for, for Putin?
(28:35):
Well, there, there may be somewin for Putin, but with with whom?
Like, who's the win for it?
First of all, we, in the us themedia, if that's the tack we
take, we're just giving him a win.
Right?
We, in a way can control thatif we control our initial
instincts to say it's all bad.
President Biden met with,with, uh, with Putin in 2021.
(28:57):
In Switzerland, they had a summit.
Even though Russian troops wereoccupying part of Ukraine were
killing Ukrainians, they had a summit.
You know, every president, presidentObama met with Putin, president
Bush, uh, junior met with Putin.
So I'm not against diplomacy.
I'm not against trying to have some kindof dialogue that that is very important.
Like you can't resolveeverything with war.
(29:20):
I think we should have probablylearned that in the last, you
know, 30 years in this country.
Not always the way, it's, it's veryimportant to have the most powerful
military in the world and to be ableto project power when you have to.
But if you can resolve problemsthrough negotiations, through
dialogue, that's even better.
Right?
And so, going into this meeting, Ithink President Trump understands
what he's dealing with.
(29:40):
Maybe, you know, maybe not the way thatmost people in Washington understand it.
And I think this is what'schallenging for a lot of people today.
President Trump is, he's adifferent type of thinker.
Marco Rubio said after they, theyrecognized, you know, the Syrian
government, I heard him testify toCongress and he said, look, like
we're taking a bit of a risk here.
We're doing something.
You know, in the past we'd havespent two years debating whether we
(30:02):
should do this or not in Washington.
We just made the decision to do it,move quickly because we can't lose
time because waiting two years willmean like we'll be, well, Syria would
back into a, like a pit of vipersand terrorism and extremism, right.
We're taking a risk.
It may work, it may not work.
We have to accept that, butsometimes you gotta take a risk.
(30:23):
So I, I applaud that personally.
And it sounds like not havingzelensky at the table for this meeting
makes sense for several reasons.
If it's just to really assess Putinand his willingness to to come along.
And if you're gonna meet withZelensky later, there's been a lot
of heat about not having Zelenskyat this particular meeting.
Yeah.
And if you stick to the policy thatwe're not making any deal, this is
(30:47):
not to discuss the future of Ukraine,this is to set up the next meeting.
To find out whether Putinis even ready to do that.
If Putin is not, then we go to plan B,which is not the best alternative I think.
When we talk about secondary sanctions,some of the things that, you know, I
have advocated for that's gonna causepain for all our allies, it's gonna cause
(31:09):
some challenges in our relationships withother, we have to be realistic about that.
Like we don't operate in a vacuum.
So if we, if Putin can come outtathe meeting and say, okay, I will,
I will order a, a cessation of allhostilities and we're gonna start
negotiations, that would be a good thing.
I think right now it's not overyet, but it would be a good start.
And the only way to do that isto have this meeting, I think.
(31:31):
For the president to look, I, you know,look, you know, sit face to face with
Putin without a lot of distractions.
And maybe you're right.
I mean, I have mixed feelings about this.
I kind of wish the president had invitedZelensky to Alaska and told President
Putin, this is my country, he's my guest.
But I see what you're saying.
And that makes sense too, like letthem meet first, talk to each other.
(31:53):
And then set the stage for a, atrilateral meeting, or President
Trump has said maybe some of ourEuropean partners there as well.
I'll get you outta here on thisquestion, Glen, but, uh, I mean,
you know the Russians better thananyone I'll ever come across.
What is it that you think would hithardest to bring the Russians to.
The table or just bring themin line a little bit more?
(32:16):
Well, I think that there are, you know,we, we've talked a little bit and there
are a lot of ideas on the table aboutways to put more pressure on Moscow.
One is secondary sanctions,increasing the sanctions.
Two is increasing aid to the Ukrainians,you know, supplying them with more.
Okay.
Yeah.
And this White House has saidthat we will, we will sell more
equipment to the Europeans to.
(32:38):
Support the Ukrainians.
Maybe we change that position,you know, give it directly to
Ukrainians in the future as a signthat like we're going right to them.
So there are other things we could do too.
I mean, you could go down thegamut of, you know, responses.
By the way, I think that weshould, you know, not just,
it's not just Ukraine worldwide.
Wherever the Russians were causinghavoc, we should support those
(33:00):
people that are pushing back.
It's kind of the Ron RonaldReagan approach or the rollback.
What's an example of that, Glen?
Sorry, is that Africa?
You're thinking maybe Africa, LatinAmerica, the Western hemisphere,
like some of their allies there.
Maybe they should feela little bit of heat.
Interesting and Right.
But one thing too, Ryan, which it's nota very popular thing to say with many
(33:20):
people in the United States today, so Ihope we don't get any death threats on
restricted handling, but we also haveto think, we're talking about the stick.
What is the carrot?
What is the incentive?
How do we incentivizethe Russians to behavior?
There's one thing I've said for years.
We're not very good at it.
You know, starting in 2014, like I'mnot suggesting that we shouldn't have
sanctioned the Russians we shouldhave for what they did, but we also
(33:43):
need to think when they do somethingthat is tangible and is positive,
how do, how do we respond to that?
How do we show them that, you know, thatis not a, like we see that as a good thing
and it's in our national interest, and so.
What do we do there?
This is gonna be very, very trickybecause the Russians obviously want
us to remove all the sanctions andlet their economy thrive again.
(34:05):
The Ukrainians are very worried thatthat's gonna happen and the Russians
are gonna use that to then re-arm theirmilitary, start a new offensive in five
years, two years, 10 years, you name it.
You know, you ask before,like, how does this all end?
If you ask many Ukrainians, they sayit's been going on for hundreds of years.
Yeah.
Does it ever end?
I dunno.
I mean, that's the kindof pessimist in me.
(34:25):
We do need to think about whatare the incentives, the tangible
things that Russia could do.
For example, withdrawing fromUkrainian territory, right?
Big what, how, right?
Big.
How would we respond, right?
And then we have to thinkabout the long-term impact
on both Ukraine and Russia.
And that means the entire worldof all of the destruction and all
(34:49):
of the, let's say, PTSD issues.
We're gonna be facing, um, youknow, societal disruption in both
countries where hundreds of thousandsof citizens have been at war, where
children, especially on the Ukrainianside, this is a heartbreaker.
Children have been subjected tothe horrors of war in a way that no
child should ever be subjected to.
Yeah.
(35:10):
How are we in the UnitedStates and the west?
The rest of the world going to respond.
You know, the, the war in Ukraine, let'ssay that there's a ceasefire tomorrow.
Our work just begins.
I think, yeah.
Interesting.
And with Russia, we need to think abouthow do we incentivize the Russians?
So there, there has tobe some kind of carrot.
(35:32):
This is great.
Glen, anything we missed or that,uh, talking points that you think
we need to, to land with folks?
No, but I wanna go back to our first,uh, encounter together on the show
back when, I don't know, 2023 or.
When I was with you, with Gavin?
Yeah.
Yep.
Right in your studio,which is a great, uh, day.
(35:52):
By the way, Ryan has really good beer.
Anybody.
That's why I was drunk at the, I might,I might be having some right now.
Possibly.
Cheers.
We say Ukrainian.
What is it?
Wooo.
What is it?
Budah Budah.
Hmm.
All right.
But I do wanna say it's likeyou're like a Russia expert.
I'm not a Russia expert.
Nobody is a Russia expert, in my opinion.
(36:13):
So, for all your listeners, if someonetells you that they, they really
understand Russia, be very careful becauseit's very, very, very, even Russians don't
understand their country, in my opinion.
So I, I see a lot of people out therepromoting themselves as Russia experts.
I wanna stress that I am not really,I mean, I'm a Long Island expert.
I lo I understand Long Island.
Gimme a break.
(36:33):
Alright.
I don't.
Hey, but Glen, for those who aren'twatching, your haircut is looking good.
It's sharp.
Thank you.
You're gonna be on TV this weekend.
I don't know if we could talk aboutit, but let's not talk about you.
All right.
But you're looking good.
You're looking good.
Yeah.
You look marvelous.
All right, until next time everybody,thank you for tuning in and, uh, if
(36:57):
you're interested in getting a daily,take, a little daily Intel brief on
what's going on in Russia, China,Iran, middle East, some other places.
We've got something curatedwith just, uh, open source.
You can go to restricted handling.comand sign up and you'll get
that in your inbox every, uh,Monday to Friday in the morning.
I recommend it.
Really great thing thatBrian put together.
(37:17):
So, yeah, outstanding work.
Alright, thanks so much.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.