College, Career, and Common Sense: Educator Melanie Korczyk on Helping Students Thrive | Conversations with a Chiropractor
Description
In this eye-opening episode of Conversations with a Chiropractor, Dr. Stephanie Wautier sits down with her sister, veteran educator Melanie Korczyk, for a powerful conversation on preparing students—not just for college, but for life.
With over two decades in the classroom and a growing career in executive functioning coaching, Melanie shares her insights on helping students build the real-world skills they need to thrive. From college essays to career paths, ADHD to anxiety, and the truth about community college versus the four-year university track—this episode is packed with grounded wisdom and practical tools for parents, students, and educators alike.
Whether you're raising a college-bound teen, guiding students through post-grad decisions, or reflecting on your own educational path, Melanie’s calm, compassionate perspective is a breath of fresh air.
🎧 In This Episode, Discover:
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Why executive functioning skills are often more important than GPA
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How to guide kids through college decisions with financial awareness
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The truth about stigma and value around community college vs. university
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Tips for college essays, exploring career paths, and building student resilience
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What today’s students really need to hear—and what parents can do to help
Stay Connected & Explore:
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Follow Us on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@ConversationswithaChiro
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Follow Us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wautierwellness
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Email for Show-Related Inquiries and Sponsorships: drstephaniewautier@yahoo.com
Credits:
Podcast production by Brand|Sound. Start your podcast journey by emailing
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi, this is Dr. StephanieWautier and I'm the host of
Conversations with a Chiropractor.
This is not a health how to, butrather a conversation with some
amazing people I've had the pleasureof being with on my journey of life.
Think of it more like Tuesdays with Maury.
A fireside chat orchicken soup for the soul.
(00:27):
Grab a cup of coffee.
Sit back and enjoy thisconversation with a chiropractor.
Today's episode, I havea very special guest.
(00:48):
She is one of my sisters.
Her name is Melanie.
Melanie has been a teacher for 22 years.
Melanie, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
So Tony and I are on this college tourand we talked about having you help
write essays and getting into schools.
(01:08):
this brought up this whole thing about whoyou are and what you do every single day.
I wanna go way back to whatinspired you to be a teacher.
Sure.
I have never not wanted to bea teacher since I was little.
I was a nerd in school.
I learned to read veryquickly and I loved to read.
(01:29):
As an introvert, I just loved thecreativity that it allowed me and
living a million lives without havingto really interact with other people.
I tell people this, I tell people thatI have one sister who has always loved
to read and I remember like beinglike somebody, Melanie for dinner.
Like where is she?
(01:49):
She's reading and I havetrouble like sitting down and
being still for that long.
I totally respect people whocan be so focused to read.
I think that's amazing.
Thank you.
I think recently I heard someone say,I think it was the lazy genius on her
podcast that reading is not virtuous andI've, I was personally offended because
(02:11):
I feel like my virtue is in that I readso much and it is a good thing, but.
Truly, it's just a neutral thing.
And the rest of my four person family,they all love books and they love
stories, but they don't love the actof sitting down and reading a book.
So when we travel, welisten to audio books.
I force them and they, theylove every book they read
(02:31):
when I force them to listen.
But they would never sit downat three o'clock on a Tuesday.
But the older I get.
I feel like as a working mom, that'sthe only time I get to sit still.
Is when you're reading.
So I want you to tell me a little bitabout this podcaster, the lazy genius.
Because you went to meet her in person.
I went to Indiana in October toget her to sign of her newest book
(02:56):
called The Plan, all about timemanagement I went with two girlfriends.
It was a lovely trip and I feel likeshe's very, very down to earth and I
would say like neutral in her advice.
She quotes herself ashaving big sister energy.
I love it.
So does on her podcast, does she giveyou like tips and tricks on how to like.
(03:19):
Be more efficient.
Her catch phrase is be a geniusabout the things that matter and
lazy about the things that don't.
So she always clarifies if this mattersto you, spend energy and time there and
if it doesn't matter to you, you don'thave to spend your time and energy there.
Very interesting.
So you are a littlegirl who loves to read.
(03:40):
Yes.
And you start your collegecareer at Michigan State.
Yes.
And you were originallya deaf education major?
I was.
I was, I learned sign language.
I majored in deaf education.
Well, for two years I was likepre-education and I applied to the
deaf education school, but at the sametime, I was having trouble signing
(04:03):
because of pretty severe tendonitis.
And I realized shortly after beingaccepted into the program that I
couldn't sign for the rest of my life.
I couldn't even hold aglass of water after class.
My hands hurt so much.
And I realized that I needed tomake a shift into just general
secondary education tradition.
A more traditional education coursework.
(04:25):
Was accepted and realized thatI needed to shift my major, my.
Counselor or advisor told me, just wait.
You could start out the program andthen you can make your shift later.
But there was only 18 spots availablein the deaf education program, and I
felt that my admittance was literallykeeping someone else out, and I
(04:47):
was very dissatisfied with that.
I felt very bad.
I couldn't figure out a way to.
Allow them at Michigan State tolet me drop out of that program and
just move into regular education.
And I had been dating thesame boy for five years at
that point, almost five years.
And he was attending Western MichiganUniversity Wanting to be closer
(05:09):
to him at the same time as feelingreally disillusioned with the
education program at Michigan Stateand knowing that my continuation of
my degree there was holding someoneelse out of this very, small program.
I made the decision to transferto Western Michigan University.
very competitive program.
Mm-hmm.
At Michigan State.
So you go to Western and you slideright into their education program.
(05:34):
slide into the education program, butI had to, basically retake several
courses that were almost exactly thesame as my courses at Michigan State,
Maybe they had, a slightlydifferent name, but it was still
basically the same humanitiesclass and I had to retake a lot of.
general education classes at Westernthat I felt like I had already completed.
(05:54):
So that put me back time-wise and left me.
I don't know, kind of with abad taste in my mouth for that.
But I finished and Igraduated and became a teacher
and a lot more student loan debt too.
Oh, a lot more.
I didn't even think about the student loandebt that I was accruing because of this
choice and no advisor at Michigan Stateor Western told me, a very critical piece
(06:16):
of information, which is that I'd alreadybeen at Michigan State two years if I
just applied for my associate's degree.
That would transfer to any other MichiganUniversity and I would not have to
retake those general education classes.
But no one told me and I didn't know.
Oh yeah.
I mean, how would you know?
Do you think that it was justbecause it was like a while ago,
(06:38):
or does this stuff happen today?
I think that it still happens today.
Hmm.
Wow.
So you graduated from Westernand, how many teaching jobs has it
been since you graduated to now?
You've been at thisjob for how many years?
I have been at this job for20 years, in suburban Detroit.
(06:58):
my first year was Eight month long-termsubstitute in the same school district
that I did my student teaching in.
they kind of promised me a job atthe end of this long-term situation.
But then human resources putthem into a hiring freeze.
So they weren't allowed to hire anyoneelse on staff because of budget cuts.
so I went to a very northern.
(07:21):
suburb of Detroit, but it was as farnorth as you can get almost in the thumb.
Hmm.
And I was there for one yearand my husband was looking
for jobs closer to my school.
I was looking for jobs closer to hisschool when I received a job offer where
I am right now, which was just likeseven miles away from where he taught.
Mm. Now we have toclarify for our listeners.
(07:41):
This husband is not the sameboyfriend that you followed.
Oh, he is not.
No, I transferred toWestern Michigan for a boy.
I had been dating almost fiveyears, and then he broke up with
me as soon as I got to Western.
bastard.
No, I'm
just kidding.
He, he is a good man.
He's a very good man.
In fact, when I met my currenthusband, he said to me, I think
(08:05):
you guys have a real future.
And if I were Mike, my husband, now.
There's no way I would be okaywith us still being friends.
And I'm just gonna respectfully kind ofstep away because we were friends still
after we broke up and he said, I wantyou to follow your future with this man.
And I know that I can't be a closefriend of yours at the same time.
(08:27):
No, no boyfriend or future husbandwould be okay with that because
of our long history and we.
Just drifted away.
we have spoken sincethen, but not very often.
Mm-hmm.
A really mature thing for any human to do.
Yes, very.
That's amazing.
So you're in your 22nd year of teaching.
Yes.
(08:48):
But about seven-ish years ago,you started getting into some
very, very specific tutoring.
actually coaching, perhaps it'scalled executive functioning coaching.
Yes.
Tell me a little bit about that.
So I stumbled across this kind of ideaor term that's getting quite popular
now, but I was, I don't wanna sayahead of my time, but it's, before I
(09:11):
had heard about it anywhere else, Iwas just looking at parenting books.
I have a brilliant child who.
When they were young,were a little bit pokey.
Mm-hmm.
slow moving, moving on their own terms,doing things, learning on their own
terms really when they wanted to.
And so I was kind oflooking for some help.
(09:33):
I knew that my child did not have.
A DHD or it surely didn't seem like it,but I, they needed a little something.
I was looking for a little something.
So I stumbled upon this bookcalled Smart, but scattered
by Peg Dawson and Richard Gir.
I had never heard of executive functioningskills before, but what they are are
(09:57):
things like flexibility, planningand prioritizing, time management,
task initiation, organization.
Sustained attention,goal-directed persistence,
self-awareness, things like that.
So kind of like the soft skills.
Okay.
my child was very brilliant,but didn't always get a move
on in the morning or, you know,
(10:19):
is this anything related to childrenwho have like test taking anxiety or
is this a completely separate thing?
Well.
Absolutely it can have somethingto do with testing anxiety.
as an executive functioning coach, I onlywork with students with A DHD right now,
and they need something very, all each ofthem need something very, very different.
(10:42):
So it is just those soft skillsthat help you be successful mm-hmm.
In school that some kids really,they've got it and some kids don't.
Got it.
A DHD can work very differently.
Among young people, and Ireally do help all of them with
something a little bit different.
(11:03):
Not like one blanket, this is thediagnosis and this is the program,
right?
Like if you have testing anxiety,test taking anxiety, you might have,
a weakness in emotional control
or
Your ability to sit down and feel calmwhile you're taking a test, which inhibits
the retrieval of the information thatmaybe you knew 30 minutes before the test.
(11:25):
And then once you sit down,you just do not, can't recall.
So this is like life changingfor these children, right?
Life changing for these kids.
Well, It can be dependingon what they need.
But I think mostly I feel like I'mjust giving them a little boost, like a
little, just a little support, a littlescaffolding and helping them either.
Learn about different ways to besuccessful or help them improve those
(11:49):
skills so that they can be successful.
The goal is that they won't need meto coach them for very long, and I
do have kind of a rolling roster ofstudents that I work with because
the goal is for, maybe they needto see me twice a week to kind of.
Stay afloat in school at first, thenmaybe we can move it down to once a
week and then maybe once every otherweek, or then maybe just check-ins.
(12:13):
And so that is the goal that I kind ofhelp support these students, teach 'em
their skills and send them on their way.
if they need me, then theyreach out for specific purposes.
the whole goal.
Hmm.
Would you say, I mean, sort oflike with other diagnoses, that we
are more aware of a DHD now thanwe were like 30, 40 years ago.
(12:34):
is the diagnosis rate higher?
Are we seeing more of it?
Is there a reason for it?
I think we're more aware of it.
I don't think that it is justbecause of today's technology,
although it doesn't help.
So I think that more than anything,probably a lot of people listening
are gonna say, cell phones havecaused A DHD and A DHD impacts your.
(12:58):
regulation of attention.
So it's not that people withA DHD can't pay attention.
They either lock in too long And getthis when they're really into something
like in a flow state or some otherthings, they really have to work
a lot harder to pay attention to.
And so I think that cell phones,social media, things like that.
(13:18):
Reach that side of peoplewith a DHD, their brains that
cause them to lock in harder.
Before that, it might've beentv, it might've been video games.
So I think that we see it more withcell phone use, but I don't think cell
phone use is causing more diagnoses.
(13:39):
Mm-hmm.
I think overall cellphone use is affecting.
Teenager's attentionspan across the board.
Mm-hmm.
think it's causing a DHD.
Okay.
Interesting.
I love it.
So every day you areteaching high school English.
Yep.
And after hours, besides being amom and a wife, you are doing this
executive functioning coaching.
(13:59):
Tell me a little bit about howyou prepare your kids for college.
the essays, the admission stuff.
what is your.
Assistance in that regard?
addition to teaching English, I also,half of my schedule at school is teaching
students with, that are academicallyat risk for some reason, that are
not qualified for special education.
(14:20):
So those students typically aren'tuniversity bound as much as some
of the other students in my Englishclasses that are advanced, that
know exactly what they wanna do.
So I first stumbled into executivefunctioning skills because of, a
parenting book that I read, butI quickly realized we should be
(14:42):
teaching this to our students.
And so I implemented it in my school,in my academic support classes, and it
trickles over into English a little bit.
So the biggest thing that I try toprepare students for is to really be
Aware of what they're getting themselvesinto when they're choosing a school.
Okay.
So for some students that might meanmoving away, living in the dorms,
(15:03):
going to a four year universityor even an Ivy League right away.
I have students who I writerecommendation letters for that are
going into the US Navy, into the AirForce, into Ivy leagues into local
colleges and into arts programs.
So just everything.
(15:24):
But I think before students go to alarge university for the experience,
and maybe they're gonna major insomething that it doesn't really
matter where you go, or maybe theyhave no idea what they wanna do.
I try to talk to them about their optionsbecause if anyone had said to me, Hey.
(15:44):
You will get a job as a teacher ifyou have your degree in teaching.
You don't need to go straightto a four year university.
let's look at, how much it's gonnacost every year over the course
of your life, for your studentloan debt if you do these things.
Nobody.
Talked to me about my options.
you and our other sisterboth went to Michigan State.
I knew that.
I loved it.
I knew that it was my kind of campusand I wanted to go, but there were
(16:08):
a lot of other options for me.
So I think for some kids, startingat community college is really
helpful for a variety of reasons.
They have smaller class sizes,it's much less expensive.
There's more support there.
and starting next year, and we'rerecording this in March of 2025,
starting next academic year.
So in August.
Community college is free in Michiganfor students who live in district
(16:30):
and if you're out of district, theysubtract the in-district cost and
you only have to pay the remain.
So financially you just can'tget a better deal right now.
Yeah,
So I just want students to understand.
Why they're going to a certaincollege and what the long-term
repercussions are gonna be.
So you really believe that someone canget as good of an education at a community
(16:54):
college as they can at a four yearuniversity for those first two years,
Absolutely.
Wow.
Okay.
I mean, I'm sure that there's alittle bit of a stigma there, right?
Absolutely.
Sort of like there's a little bitof a stigma with people going into
the services or trades or, you know,the armed services, I think that
you even had an experience whereone of your students really wanted
(17:16):
to start at community college andher parents didn't want her to.
Yes, absolutely.
She came to me for advice becauseI give the community college
speech to all of my juniors.
When they're doing their applications,and just talk to them about
the reality of the situation.
It's not for everyone, butit really is for some people.
And I had a student who is nowa senior, and we started talking
(17:37):
about it when she was a junior.
She wants to become a nurse and shewanted to go to college nearby, but
she wanted to attend a communitycollege and her parents wanted to her
to attend a commutable university.
And she came to me and said, they justdon't want me going to community college.
And so I advised her to.
Invite her parents on a tour of thecommunity college with her, speak
(17:59):
to some teachers there, speak to theadvisors there, tour the campus, look
at the program, and eventually they.
Did accept her wishes and Wow.
Even though they were willing to payfor her to go to a university, she
just felt like they didn't need to.
Yeah.
She's going to become a nurse.
She's gonna get a job as a nurse.
She's still gonna gether four year degree.
(18:19):
Her diploma will say whateveruniversity she finishes at,
and she just didn't feel like.
It was necessary for her parents to spendso much money on those first two years
when you're just taking basic classes.
Yeah, absolutely.
what would you tell kids who aredead set on going, let's just say
someone wants to go to Harvardor someone wants to go to Yale.
(18:42):
do you give them advice onhow that admissions essay
should look or what it should.
Convey, What is thatadmissions essay really about?
I try to advise my students to lettheir essay show something about them
that isn't shown on their application.
So a lot of students have theinclination to just list all
(19:06):
of their extracurriculars.
Mm-hmm.
Or to say something like, I'm areally good leader because I was
the captain of a sports team, but.
My high school is a large schoolwhere I work, and we have dozens
of sports teams, and they allhave a captain at the freshman,
junior varsity and varsity level.
And I don't think that speaks toleadership or setting them apart
(19:28):
because across the country there'sjust probably hundreds of thousands
of sports captains right now.
Mm-hmm.
And it doesn't tell anything.
About them or their, them as aleader or anything like that.
So do you think that that kidsshould include, like some of
their personality traits or a lifeexperience that taught them something?
Is that more valuable in that essay?
(19:50):
A hundred percent.
Because a college admissions officeralready has your list of extracurriculars.
They already know because youlisted it as an extracurricular
that you were a captain of a team.
So.
If you just regurgitate yourapplication or your resume, you're not
telling them anything about why theyshould choose you over someone else.
(20:10):
Hmm.
So what do you say to a kid who, hasdone everything that they should do?
They've done all of theircollege prep classes.
They've a great A-C-T-S-A-T score.
They think that they did amazingly onthe essay, and they don't get into the
school that they dreamed they would.
(20:30):
What do you say tosomebody in that situation
it's gonna be fine no matter wherethey go, no matter what they do?
It's going to be fine.
I think that probably 95% of theteenagers we all know, all of your
listeners know, are in a pretty goodplace with a good support system.
So if they go to Michigan Statelike I did, or Western like I
(20:51):
did, or if they go to Harvard.
It doesn't matter.
It's just going to be fine becausethey have the support system.
They're going to get a degree,they're going to get a job.
I have a student who wasabsolutely brilliant in math.
he was more advanced than anyone elsethat I've ever seen come through my
(21:12):
school system He became a math teacher.
He went to an Ivy League school andhe became a math teacher and he taught
math in a low income area in California,in the Bay Area, which is so valuable,
but he could have gotten that job nothaving stressed out for years and years
and years So I really want them toknow wherever their path takes them.
(21:36):
It's going to be fine.
So, such great advice.
I mean, truly hard for that kidwho has their heart set on that.
But I say to my kids, the most valuablething that you can do in life is pivot.
Right?
Yes.
Something doesn't go your way.
Pivot, like that resiliency is gonnatake them farther than any degree would.
(21:59):
Right.
what the lazy genius says.
Pivot specifically.
She does that.
She says Pivot is moreimportant than planning.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Very interesting.
Yes.
So that is the most important thing.
I could have felt like my life was overwhen I transferred schools and I moved
cities and I left my friends and I went toWestern and my boyfriend broke up with me.
(22:23):
I could have felt like, oh mygosh, I did all this, but honestly
I still got a teaching degree.
I still got a teaching job.
I met my husband at Western.
So I never would've methim if I hadn't gone there.
Even though my path ended updifferently than I thought
that I would go, starting out.
Everything was fine.
(22:43):
And I see so many students really,really worried about where they're
going to go to school, and whatthat is gonna look like for them.
But for most people, itreally doesn't matter.
Like if you get a businessdegree, you get a business degree.
And unless you're really connected.
And you have connectionsgoing into the workplace.
(23:05):
It doesn't matter if you went toUniversity of Michigan or Central
Michigan, you're gonna start outthe same way everybody else is.
The only thing that matters startingout in business is your connections.
Now, if you wanna be a lawyer, itdoes matter where you go to school.
It does matter where you get your degree.
If you want to be a doctor or aspecialist or you know, certain career
(23:26):
fields really do have some schoolsthat are much better suited for them.
But for 50% of the population, aslong as they get a degree and they
graduate, they're gonna be fine.
What brilliant advicefor all of these kids.
I mean, but I do feel like there'sjust that pressure that they
probably put on themselves, right?
(23:48):
And that pressure, the moreprestigious, you know, that
it does something for the ego,
It really does.
I. Work in a high incomecity, outside of Detroit.
And I see more often than anythingelse, the students are putting the
pressure on themselves, not the parents.
(24:08):
But I think there's still a, it'sstill like in the air, right?
A stigma that is the parents.
It's the parents
Pushing these kids.
But I'm not seeing that as a truth.
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
So for all these parents listening,'cause I don't know how many
kids are listening to my podcast.
Just assure them that everything is gonnabe okay and hopefully it'll sink in.
(24:30):
Right?
Right.
Everything is gonna
be okay because even if thingsgo really, really south in high
school, if you go to communitycollege first, your GPA starts over.
And then based on your community collegeexperience, you can transfer and get
into a university to finish up that out.
But also, as you know.
(24:51):
There are a lot of career paths thatdon't involve a four year degree.
Absolutely.
And more than ever.
A college degree is not aprerequisite, ticketing a job.
Mm-hmm.
And a high paying job.
Mm-hmm.
At that,
yes.
It used to be, we used to think that youhad to have that four year degree from
an accredited, you know, big university.
(25:11):
And I think the times, andTide is really changing.
I really think it is.
When I was in college, I mean,I have to get a four year
degree to be a teacher, right?
My children both wanna be teachers.
They're gonna have toget a four year degree.
It doesn't matter as much where theygo, as long as it's a college that has
their program that they wanna enter.
and same with your daughter as well.
(25:32):
She just has to find a collegewith that program, and then
from there it'll be okay.
Michigan State, I was friends witha lot of students who, and Western
as well, who majored in business.
and so many of them went straight towork at either an insurance company
or enterprise car rental, or a bank.
(25:53):
And you don't need a business degreefrom a prestigious university to work
at an entry level management position.
Mm-hmm.
in that field.
I feel like that is the most,just, I'm, I'm sorry if you, if
you got a business degree, butsort of sad trajectory because Yes.
(26:14):
I mean.
I think managing people and managinghumans who are in those entry
level positions is probably one ofthe most difficult things to do.
Oh, absolutely.
And when you think about what you wannado as a business person or a business
owner, managing people is probablyone of the more difficult things
and very difficult to teach as well.
(26:37):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I got my master's in curriculum and abouthalfway through my program, I found out
that in order to become a curriculumdirector, I would have to spend time
as a building administrator first.
And I instantly decided not for me, Ifinished my master's because in teaching
you get a pay raise, at least in Michiganif you have your master's degree.
(27:00):
So I finished it, but I immediately gaveup on all my career goals of working in.
curriculum because I cannotsee myself managing people and
being a building administrator.
I was a manager in retail to helpput myself through college and.
I absolutely hated it.
They wanted to promote me into theirlike regional level and I refused.
(27:21):
So just because you're good atit doesn't mean that you enjoy it
and that's another thing I think thatwe have to help our children figure
out as they're choosing these careers.
Like, yeah, maybe you arean amazing mathematician.
But you don't wanna be solvingproblems or become a physicist.
You wanna be, teachingthe Youth of America.
(27:41):
Yeah.
Very interesting.
And you don't need college loandebt from going to Stanford
for four years to do that.
Do you have anything that you recommendfor kids in order to help them figure
out what career path they might like?
Are there certain tests they can take?
Do you believe in any of those, likeClifton strengths or personality tests?
(28:02):
a lot of schools have.
Kind of personality career pathwaytests that they have students
do, at least in Michigan we do.
and I think really, really just thinkabout how they wanna spend their time.
If they think they wanna be a teacheror if they think they want to learn
coding or be a video game designer.
(28:22):
Most high schools have a careerand technical center program for
many careers that they can try out.
a family friend of mine.
Spent one year in the career andtechnical center, pre-nursing or
pre healthcare program, and realizedshe did not want to become a nurse.
Hmm.
And another family friend of mine didthe career and technical center education
(28:47):
program and realized she absolutelywants to be a teacher of young children.
Mm-hmm.
A hundred percent without fail.
That is her mission in life.
And so I think.
Even if there's not a program thatyou can do throughout the school
day, I would recommend getting ajob any way connected to that field.
(29:07):
there are often unpaid internships.
if you want to go into the medicalfield, there are camps, things like that.
just really try it out in whateverway you can before you commit so much
time, energy, and money to majoring inthat in college and really think about.
job shadowing.
Mm-hmm.
What does this job look like?
What does this person really do all day?
(29:29):
You might think that you wanna go intofinance because you want to make a lot
of money and you don't have any idea.
What that really means.
Or how you spend your time during the day.
Yeah.
I've had several students job shadowme and I think it's so valuable
and I think most people in mostcareers are very willing to do that.
(29:51):
for people, for kids.
I agree.
Well, Melanie, thank you so much for beingon conversations with the chiropractor.
I so appreciate your perspective on this.
I so appreciate the value that you bringand giving people a little bit of freedom
and flexibility not to just think aboutgoing to that four year university.
(30:12):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you've enjoyed this podcast,would you please rate it,
review it, like, or subscribe.
You can find me on social media; atWautierWellness.com, Dr. Stephanie
Wautier on Instagram, or WautierWellness Chiropractic and Massage on
(30:35):
Facebook, and I'm so curious whereyour next conversation will take you.
Hi, this is Dr. StephanieWautier and I'm the host of
Conversations with a Chiropractor.
This is not a health how to, butrather a conversation with some
amazing people I've had the pleasureof being with on my journey of life.
Think of it more like Tuesdays with Maury.
A fireside chat orchicken soup for the soul.
(00:27):
Grab a cup of coffee.
Sit back and enjoy thisconversation with a chiropractor.
Today's episode, I havea very special guest.
(00:48):
She is one of my sisters.
Her name is Melanie.
Melanie has been a teacher for 22 years.
Melanie, thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
So Tony and I are on this college tourand we talked about having you help
write essays and getting into schools.
(01:08):
this brought up this whole thing about whoyou are and what you do every single day.
I wanna go way back to whatinspired you to be a teacher.
Sure.
I have never not wanted to bea teacher since I was little.
I was a nerd in school.
I learned to read veryquickly and I loved to read.
(01:29):
As an introvert, I just loved thecreativity that it allowed me and
living a million lives without havingto really interact with other people.
I tell people this, I tell people thatI have one sister who has always loved
to read and I remember like beinglike somebody, Melanie for dinner.
Like where is she?
(01:49):
She's reading and I havetrouble like sitting down and
being still for that long.
I totally respect people whocan be so focused to read.
I think that's amazing.
Thank you.
I think recently I heard someone say,I think it was the lazy genius on her
podcast that reading is not virtuous andI've, I was personally offended because
(02:11):
I feel like my virtue is in that I readso much and it is a good thing, but.
Truly, it's just a neutral thing.
And the rest of my four person family,they all love books and they love
stories, but they don't love the actof sitting down and reading a book.
So when we travel, welisten to audio books.
I force them and they, theylove every book they read
(02:31):
when I force them to listen.
But they would never sit downat three o'clock on a Tuesday.
But the older I get.
I feel like as a working mom, that'sthe only time I get to sit still.
Is when you're reading.
So I want you to tell me a little bitabout this podcaster, the lazy genius.
Because you went to meet her in person.
I went to Indiana in October toget her to sign of her newest book
(02:56):
called The Plan, all about timemanagement I went with two girlfriends.
It was a lovely trip and I feel likeshe's very, very down to earth and I
would say like neutral in her advice.
She quotes herself ashaving big sister energy.
I love it.
So does on her podcast, does she giveyou like tips and tricks on how to like.
(03:19):
Be more efficient.
Her catch phrase is be a geniusabout the things that matter and
lazy about the things that don't.
So she always clarifies if this mattersto you, spend energy and time there and
if it doesn't matter to you, you don'thave to spend your time and energy there.
Very interesting.
So you are a littlegirl who loves to read.
(03:40):
Yes.
And you start your collegecareer at Michigan State.
Yes.
And you were originallya deaf education major?
I was.
I was, I learned sign language.
I majored in deaf education.
Well, for two years I was likepre-education and I applied to the
deaf education school, but at the sametime, I was having trouble signing
(04:03):
because of pretty severe tendonitis.
And I realized shortly after beingaccepted into the program that I
couldn't sign for the rest of my life.
I couldn't even hold aglass of water after class.
My hands hurt so much.
And I realized that I needed tomake a shift into just general
secondary education tradition.
A more traditional education coursework.
(04:25):
Was accepted and realized thatI needed to shift my major, my.
Counselor or advisor told me, just wait.
You could start out the program andthen you can make your shift later.
But there was only 18 spots availablein the deaf education program, and I
felt that my admittance was literallykeeping someone else out, and I
(04:47):
was very dissatisfied with that.
I felt very bad.
I couldn't figure out a way to.
Allow them at Michigan State tolet me drop out of that program and
just move into regular education.
And I had been dating thesame boy for five years at
that point, almost five years.
And he was attending Western MichiganUniversity Wanting to be closer
(05:09):
to him at the same time as feelingreally disillusioned with the
education program at Michigan Stateand knowing that my continuation of
my degree there was holding someoneelse out of this very, small program.
I made the decision to transferto Western Michigan University.
very competitive program.
Mm-hmm.
At Michigan State.
So you go to Western and you slideright into their education program.
(05:34):
slide into the education program, butI had to, basically retake several
courses that were almost exactly thesame as my courses at Michigan State,
Maybe they had, a slightlydifferent name, but it was still
basically the same humanitiesclass and I had to retake a lot of.
general education classes at Westernthat I felt like I had already completed.
(05:54):
So that put me back time-wise and left me.
I don't know, kind of with abad taste in my mouth for that.
But I finished and Igraduated and became a teacher
and a lot more student loan debt too.
Oh, a lot more.
I didn't even think about the student loandebt that I was accruing because of this
choice and no advisor at Michigan Stateor Western told me, a very critical piece
(06:16):
of information, which is that I'd alreadybeen at Michigan State two years if I
just applied for my associate's degree.
That would transfer to any other MichiganUniversity and I would not have to
retake those general education classes.
But no one told me and I didn't know.
Oh yeah.
I mean, how would you know?
Do you think that it was justbecause it was like a while ago,
(06:38):
or does this stuff happen today?
I think that it still happens today.
Hmm.
Wow.
So you graduated from Westernand, how many teaching jobs has it
been since you graduated to now?
You've been at thisjob for how many years?
I have been at this job for20 years, in suburban Detroit.
(06:58):
my first year was Eight month long-termsubstitute in the same school district
that I did my student teaching in.
they kind of promised me a job atthe end of this long-term situation.
But then human resources putthem into a hiring freeze.
So they weren't allowed to hire anyoneelse on staff because of budget cuts.
so I went to a very northern.
(07:21):
suburb of Detroit, but it was as farnorth as you can get almost in the thumb.
Hmm.
And I was there for one yearand my husband was looking
for jobs closer to my school.
I was looking for jobs closer to hisschool when I received a job offer where
I am right now, which was just likeseven miles away from where he taught.
Mm. Now we have toclarify for our listeners.
(07:41):
This husband is not the sameboyfriend that you followed.
Oh, he is not.
No, I transferred toWestern Michigan for a boy.
I had been dating almost fiveyears, and then he broke up with
me as soon as I got to Western.
bastard.
No, I'm
just kidding.
He, he is a good man.
He's a very good man.
In fact, when I met my currenthusband, he said to me, I think
(08:05):
you guys have a real future.
And if I were Mike, my husband, now.
There's no way I would be okaywith us still being friends.
And I'm just gonna respectfully kind ofstep away because we were friends still
after we broke up and he said, I wantyou to follow your future with this man.
And I know that I can't be a closefriend of yours at the same time.
(08:27):
No, no boyfriend or future husbandwould be okay with that because
of our long history and we.
Just drifted away.
we have spoken sincethen, but not very often.
Mm-hmm.
A really mature thing for any human to do.
Yes, very.
That's amazing.
So you're in your 22nd year of teaching.
Yes.
(08:48):
But about seven-ish years ago,you started getting into some
very, very specific tutoring.
actually coaching, perhaps it'scalled executive functioning coaching.
Yes.
Tell me a little bit about that.
So I stumbled across this kind of ideaor term that's getting quite popular
now, but I was, I don't wanna sayahead of my time, but it's, before I
(09:11):
had heard about it anywhere else, Iwas just looking at parenting books.
I have a brilliant child who.
When they were young,were a little bit pokey.
Mm-hmm.
slow moving, moving on their own terms,doing things, learning on their own
terms really when they wanted to.
And so I was kind oflooking for some help.
(09:33):
I knew that my child did not have.
A DHD or it surely didn't seem like it,but I, they needed a little something.
I was looking for a little something.
So I stumbled upon this bookcalled Smart, but scattered
by Peg Dawson and Richard Gir.
I had never heard of executive functioningskills before, but what they are are
(09:57):
things like flexibility, planningand prioritizing, time management,
task initiation, organization.
Sustained attention,goal-directed persistence,
self-awareness, things like that.
So kind of like the soft skills.
Okay.
my child was very brilliant,but didn't always get a move
on in the morning or, you know,
(10:19):
is this anything related to childrenwho have like test taking anxiety or
is this a completely separate thing?
Well.
Absolutely it can have somethingto do with testing anxiety.
as an executive functioning coach, I onlywork with students with A DHD right now,
and they need something very, all each ofthem need something very, very different.
(10:42):
So it is just those soft skillsthat help you be successful mm-hmm.
In school that some kids really,they've got it and some kids don't.
Got it.
A DHD can work very differently.
Among young people, and Ireally do help all of them with
something a little bit different.
(11:03):
Not like one blanket, this is thediagnosis and this is the program,
right?
Like if you have testing anxiety,test taking anxiety, you might have,
a weakness in emotional control
or
Your ability to sit down and feel calmwhile you're taking a test, which inhibits
the retrieval of the information thatmaybe you knew 30 minutes before the test.
(11:25):
And then once you sit down,you just do not, can't recall.
So this is like life changingfor these children, right?
Life changing for these kids.
Well, It can be dependingon what they need.
But I think mostly I feel like I'mjust giving them a little boost, like a
little, just a little support, a littlescaffolding and helping them either.
Learn about different ways to besuccessful or help them improve those
(11:49):
skills so that they can be successful.
The goal is that they won't need meto coach them for very long, and I
do have kind of a rolling roster ofstudents that I work with because
the goal is for, maybe they needto see me twice a week to kind of.
Stay afloat in school at first, thenmaybe we can move it down to once a
week and then maybe once every otherweek, or then maybe just check-ins.
(12:13):
And so that is the goal that I kind ofhelp support these students, teach 'em
their skills and send them on their way.
if they need me, then theyreach out for specific purposes.
the whole goal.
Hmm.
Would you say, I mean, sort oflike with other diagnoses, that we
are more aware of a DHD now thanwe were like 30, 40 years ago.
(12:34):
is the diagnosis rate higher?
Are we seeing more of it?
Is there a reason for it?
I think we're more aware of it.
I don't think that it is justbecause of today's technology,
although it doesn't help.
So I think that more than anything,probably a lot of people listening
are gonna say, cell phones havecaused A DHD and A DHD impacts your.
(12:58):
regulation of attention.
So it's not that people withA DHD can't pay attention.
They either lock in too long And getthis when they're really into something
like in a flow state or some otherthings, they really have to work
a lot harder to pay attention to.
And so I think that cell phones,social media, things like that.
(13:18):
Reach that side of peoplewith a DHD, their brains that
cause them to lock in harder.
Before that, it might've beentv, it might've been video games.
So I think that we see it more withcell phone use, but I don't think cell
phone use is causing more diagnoses.
(13:39):
Mm-hmm.
I think overall cellphone use is affecting.
Teenager's attentionspan across the board.
Mm-hmm.
think it's causing a DHD.
Okay.
Interesting.
I love it.
So every day you areteaching high school English.
Yep.
And after hours, besides being amom and a wife, you are doing this
executive functioning coaching.
(13:59):
Tell me a little bit about howyou prepare your kids for college.
the essays, the admission stuff.
what is your.
Assistance in that regard?
addition to teaching English, I also,half of my schedule at school is teaching
students with, that are academicallyat risk for some reason, that are
not qualified for special education.
(14:20):
So those students typically aren'tuniversity bound as much as some
of the other students in my Englishclasses that are advanced, that
know exactly what they wanna do.
So I first stumbled into executivefunctioning skills because of, a
parenting book that I read, butI quickly realized we should be
(14:42):
teaching this to our students.
And so I implemented it in my school,in my academic support classes, and it
trickles over into English a little bit.
So the biggest thing that I try toprepare students for is to really be
Aware of what they're getting themselvesinto when they're choosing a school.
Okay.
So for some students that might meanmoving away, living in the dorms,
(15:03):
going to a four year universityor even an Ivy League right away.
I have students who I writerecommendation letters for that are
going into the US Navy, into the AirForce, into Ivy leagues into local
colleges and into arts programs.
So just everything.
(15:24):
But I think before students go to alarge university for the experience,
and maybe they're gonna major insomething that it doesn't really
matter where you go, or maybe theyhave no idea what they wanna do.
I try to talk to them about their optionsbecause if anyone had said to me, Hey.
(15:44):
You will get a job as a teacher ifyou have your degree in teaching.
You don't need to go straightto a four year university.
let's look at, how much it's gonnacost every year over the course
of your life, for your studentloan debt if you do these things.
Nobody.
Talked to me about my options.
you and our other sisterboth went to Michigan State.
I knew that.
I loved it.
I knew that it was my kind of campusand I wanted to go, but there were
(16:08):
a lot of other options for me.
So I think for some kids, startingat community college is really
helpful for a variety of reasons.
They have smaller class sizes,it's much less expensive.
There's more support there.
and starting next year, and we'rerecording this in March of 2025,
starting next academic year.
So in August.
Community college is free in Michiganfor students who live in district
(16:30):
and if you're out of district, theysubtract the in-district cost and
you only have to pay the remain.
So financially you just can'tget a better deal right now.
Yeah,
So I just want students to understand.
Why they're going to a certaincollege and what the long-term
repercussions are gonna be.
So you really believe that someone canget as good of an education at a community
(16:54):
college as they can at a four yearuniversity for those first two years,
Absolutely.
Wow.
Okay.
I mean, I'm sure that there's alittle bit of a stigma there, right?
Absolutely.
Sort of like there's a little bitof a stigma with people going into
the services or trades or, you know,the armed services, I think that
you even had an experience whereone of your students really wanted
(17:16):
to start at community college andher parents didn't want her to.
Yes, absolutely.
She came to me for advice becauseI give the community college
speech to all of my juniors.
When they're doing their applications,and just talk to them about
the reality of the situation.
It's not for everyone, butit really is for some people.
And I had a student who is nowa senior, and we started talking
(17:37):
about it when she was a junior.
She wants to become a nurse and shewanted to go to college nearby, but
she wanted to attend a communitycollege and her parents wanted to her
to attend a commutable university.
And she came to me and said, they justdon't want me going to community college.
And so I advised her to.
Invite her parents on a tour of thecommunity college with her, speak
(17:59):
to some teachers there, speak to theadvisors there, tour the campus, look
at the program, and eventually they.
Did accept her wishes and Wow.
Even though they were willing to payfor her to go to a university, she
just felt like they didn't need to.
Yeah.
She's going to become a nurse.
She's gonna get a job as a nurse.
She's still gonna gether four year degree.
(18:19):
Her diploma will say whateveruniversity she finishes at,
and she just didn't feel like.
It was necessary for her parents to spendso much money on those first two years
when you're just taking basic classes.
Yeah, absolutely.
what would you tell kids who aredead set on going, let's just say
someone wants to go to Harvardor someone wants to go to Yale.
(18:42):
do you give them advice onhow that admissions essay
should look or what it should.
Convey, What is thatadmissions essay really about?
I try to advise my students to lettheir essay show something about them
that isn't shown on their application.
So a lot of students have theinclination to just list all
(19:06):
of their extracurriculars.
Mm-hmm.
Or to say something like, I'm areally good leader because I was
the captain of a sports team, but.
My high school is a large schoolwhere I work, and we have dozens
of sports teams, and they allhave a captain at the freshman,
junior varsity and varsity level.
And I don't think that speaks toleadership or setting them apart
(19:28):
because across the country there'sjust probably hundreds of thousands
of sports captains right now.
Mm-hmm.
And it doesn't tell anything.
About them or their, them as aleader or anything like that.
So do you think that that kidsshould include, like some of
their personality traits or a lifeexperience that taught them something?
Is that more valuable in that essay?
(19:50):
A hundred percent.
Because a college admissions officeralready has your list of extracurriculars.
They already know because youlisted it as an extracurricular
that you were a captain of a team.
So.
If you just regurgitate yourapplication or your resume, you're not
telling them anything about why theyshould choose you over someone else.
(20:10):
Hmm.
So what do you say to a kid who, hasdone everything that they should do?
They've done all of theircollege prep classes.
They've a great A-C-T-S-A-T score.
They think that they did amazingly onthe essay, and they don't get into the
school that they dreamed they would.
(20:30):
What do you say tosomebody in that situation
it's gonna be fine no matter wherethey go, no matter what they do?
It's going to be fine.
I think that probably 95% of theteenagers we all know, all of your
listeners know, are in a pretty goodplace with a good support system.
So if they go to Michigan Statelike I did, or Western like I
(20:51):
did, or if they go to Harvard.
It doesn't matter.
It's just going to be fine becausethey have the support system.
They're going to get a degree,they're going to get a job.
I have a student who wasabsolutely brilliant in math.
he was more advanced than anyone elsethat I've ever seen come through my
(21:12):
school system He became a math teacher.
He went to an Ivy League school andhe became a math teacher and he taught
math in a low income area in California,in the Bay Area, which is so valuable,
but he could have gotten that job nothaving stressed out for years and years
and years So I really want them toknow wherever their path takes them.
(21:36):
It's going to be fine.
So, such great advice.
I mean, truly hard for that kidwho has their heart set on that.
But I say to my kids, the most valuablething that you can do in life is pivot.
Right?
Yes.
Something doesn't go your way.
Pivot, like that resiliency is gonnatake them farther than any degree would.
(21:59):
Right.
what the lazy genius says.
Pivot specifically.
She does that.
She says Pivot is moreimportant than planning.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Very interesting.
Yes.
So that is the most important thing.
I could have felt like my life was overwhen I transferred schools and I moved
cities and I left my friends and I went toWestern and my boyfriend broke up with me.
(22:23):
I could have felt like, oh mygosh, I did all this, but honestly
I still got a teaching degree.
I still got a teaching job.
I met my husband at Western.
So I never would've methim if I hadn't gone there.
Even though my path ended updifferently than I thought
that I would go, starting out.
Everything was fine.
(22:43):
And I see so many students really,really worried about where they're
going to go to school, and whatthat is gonna look like for them.
But for most people, itreally doesn't matter.
Like if you get a businessdegree, you get a business degree.
And unless you're really connected.
And you have connectionsgoing into the workplace.
(23:05):
It doesn't matter if you went toUniversity of Michigan or Central
Michigan, you're gonna start outthe same way everybody else is.
The only thing that matters startingout in business is your connections.
Now, if you wanna be a lawyer, itdoes matter where you go to school.
It does matter where you get your degree.
If you want to be a doctor or aspecialist or you know, certain career
(23:26):
fields really do have some schoolsthat are much better suited for them.
But for 50% of the population, aslong as they get a degree and they
graduate, they're gonna be fine.
What brilliant advicefor all of these kids.
I mean, but I do feel like there'sjust that pressure that they
probably put on themselves, right?
(23:48):
And that pressure, the moreprestigious, you know, that
it does something for the ego,
It really does.
I. Work in a high incomecity, outside of Detroit.
And I see more often than anythingelse, the students are putting the
pressure on themselves, not the parents.
(24:08):
But I think there's still a, it'sstill like in the air, right?
A stigma that is the parents.
It's the parents
Pushing these kids.
But I'm not seeing that as a truth.
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
So for all these parents listening,'cause I don't know how many
kids are listening to my podcast.
Just assure them that everything is gonnabe okay and hopefully it'll sink in.
(24:30):
Right?
Right.
Everything is gonna
be okay because even if thingsgo really, really south in high
school, if you go to communitycollege first, your GPA starts over.
And then based on your community collegeexperience, you can transfer and get
into a university to finish up that out.
But also, as you know.
(24:51):
There are a lot of career paths thatdon't involve a four year degree.
Absolutely.
And more than ever.
A college degree is not aprerequisite, ticketing a job.
Mm-hmm.
And a high paying job.
Mm-hmm.
At that,
yes.
It used to be, we used to think that youhad to have that four year degree from
an accredited, you know, big university.
(25:11):
And I think the times, andTide is really changing.
I really think it is.
When I was in college, I mean,I have to get a four year
degree to be a teacher, right?
My children both wanna be teachers.
They're gonna have toget a four year degree.
It doesn't matter as much where theygo, as long as it's a college that has
their program that they wanna enter.
and same with your daughter as well.
(25:32):
She just has to find a collegewith that program, and then
from there it'll be okay.
Michigan State, I was friends witha lot of students who, and Western
as well, who majored in business.
and so many of them went straight towork at either an insurance company
or enterprise car rental, or a bank.
(25:53):
And you don't need a business degreefrom a prestigious university to work
at an entry level management position.
Mm-hmm.
in that field.
I feel like that is the most,just, I'm, I'm sorry if you, if
you got a business degree, butsort of sad trajectory because Yes.
(26:14):
I mean.
I think managing people and managinghumans who are in those entry
level positions is probably one ofthe most difficult things to do.
Oh, absolutely.
And when you think about what you wannado as a business person or a business
owner, managing people is probablyone of the more difficult things
and very difficult to teach as well.
(26:37):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I got my master's in curriculum and abouthalfway through my program, I found out
that in order to become a curriculumdirector, I would have to spend time
as a building administrator first.
And I instantly decided not for me, Ifinished my master's because in teaching
you get a pay raise, at least in Michiganif you have your master's degree.
(27:00):
So I finished it, but I immediately gaveup on all my career goals of working in.
curriculum because I cannotsee myself managing people and
being a building administrator.
I was a manager in retail to helpput myself through college and.
I absolutely hated it.
They wanted to promote me into theirlike regional level and I refused.
(27:21):
So just because you're good atit doesn't mean that you enjoy it
and that's another thing I think thatwe have to help our children figure
out as they're choosing these careers.
Like, yeah, maybe you arean amazing mathematician.
But you don't wanna be solvingproblems or become a physicist.
You wanna be, teachingthe Youth of America.
(27:41):
Yeah.
Very interesting.
And you don't need college loandebt from going to Stanford
for four years to do that.
Do you have anything that you recommendfor kids in order to help them figure
out what career path they might like?
Are there certain tests they can take?
Do you believe in any of those, likeClifton strengths or personality tests?
(28:02):
a lot of schools have.
Kind of personality career pathwaytests that they have students
do, at least in Michigan we do.
and I think really, really just thinkabout how they wanna spend their time.
If they think they wanna be a teacheror if they think they want to learn
coding or be a video game designer.
(28:22):
Most high schools have a careerand technical center program for
many careers that they can try out.
a family friend of mine.
Spent one year in the career andtechnical center, pre-nursing or
pre healthcare program, and realizedshe did not want to become a nurse.
Hmm.
And another family friend of mine didthe career and technical center education
(28:47):
program and realized she absolutelywants to be a teacher of young children.
Mm-hmm.
A hundred percent without fail.
That is her mission in life.
And so I think.
Even if there's not a program thatyou can do throughout the school
day, I would recommend getting ajob any way connected to that field.
(29:07):
there are often unpaid internships.
if you want to go into the medicalfield, there are camps, things like that.
just really try it out in whateverway you can before you commit so much
time, energy, and money to majoring inthat in college and really think about.
job shadowing.
Mm-hmm.
What does this job look like?
What does this person really do all day?
(29:29):
You might think that you wanna go intofinance because you want to make a lot
of money and you don't have any idea.
What that really means.
Or how you spend your time during the day.
Yeah.
I've had several students job shadowme and I think it's so valuable
and I think most people in mostcareers are very willing to do that.
(29:51):
for people, for kids.
I agree.
Well, Melanie, thank you so much for beingon conversations with the chiropractor.
I so appreciate your perspective on this.
I so appreciate the value that you bringand giving people a little bit of freedom
and flexibility not to just think aboutgoing to that four year university.
(30:12):
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you've enjoyed this podcast,would you please rate it,
review it, like, or subscribe.
You can find me on social media; atWautierWellness.com, Dr. Stephanie
Wautier on Instagram, or WautierWellness Chiropractic and Massage on
(30:35):
Facebook, and I'm so curious whereyour next conversation will take you.
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