May 11, 2025 • 32 mins
Vanessa Haney, an emerging expert in the realm of horror book releases, brings a business-minded approach to the world of self-publishing, drawing parallels between the book and film industries. With a dedication to mastering the craft, she continually enhances her understanding through courses and industry group involvement, positioning herself as a supportive and knowledgeable figure among her peers. As she recently released her horror short story 'Slush' and horror novel 'Crotch Goblin,' Vanessa remains committed to indie publishing, valuing the creative control it offers over her work. Vanessa's writing process involves meticulous planning and a longer editing phase, with an aim to complete a trilogy by the end of this year. Emphasizing the role of accountability and routine, Vanessa advocates for the support of writing groups as crucial for maintaining consistency and motivation. She highlights writing's potential to leave a legacy and the benefits of self-publishing for maintaining control over one's work. Additionally, Vanessa underscores the importance of cover design, editing, and strategic marketing in self-publishing, treating writing as a business to effectively reach and engage readers. Socials: Instagram: TikTok:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa Haney (00:01):
Welcome to conversations with Aaliyah Ley. Tune
in for inspiration, information and upliftment.
Alya Lei (00:06):
As creatives and entrepreneurs share their journeys,
challenges and successes. Today we have Vanessa
Haney. Yes, Vanessa grew up in the
new age circus known as the entertainment
industry. She was first published in an
anthology of poems in 1997. In the
early 2000s, she was showcased in young
(00:27):
filmmaker competitions for her screenplays. And in
2018, while getting her master's in education,
she self published her first book of
short stories, stories to curl your toes.
Now, after two children and a move
to the Pacific Northwest, she's unleashing her
stories into the world once again. Vanessa,
(00:49):
thank you so much for being here
again. Tell me, I think in October
you were about to release Safest in
the Light, right?
Vanessa Haney (00:57):
Yes, safest. So yes, things change. It
has been renamed, it went to an
editor, it went to beta readers. And
I wouldn't say any major changes were
made, but there were some little changes
that were made and it is now.
This is going to make you laugh.
(01:18):
It's called Crotch Goblin because it's about
a party girl who gets impregnated by
a monster and has to run from
this group of blood and energy sucking
monsters that are trying to kill them.
(01:38):
So her baby is this hybrid human
monster.
Alya Lei (01:43):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (01:44):
Making it a literal crotch goblin.
Alya Lei (01:48):
Nice, nice. I love it. So yes.
Vanessa Haney (01:51):
Yeah. There's also like a kind of
marketing approach with that whole like having
something that's a title that's a little
bit jarring or a lot of people
have been putting curse words or profanity
in their titles because it quickly grabs
somebody's attention. So we'll see if it
(02:12):
works. I don't know. It's a risk.
I know the title for some people
has been like, ooh, that doesn't interest
me. And other people are like, that
sounds so fun. So we'll see.
Alya Lei (02:23):
So is it published? Is it out
then?
Vanessa Haney (02:24):
So it will be out on November
26th. So it's available for pre order
right now.
Alya Lei (02:31):
Nice.
Vanessa Haney (02:32):
And it's fun. You know, I write
really fun horror. My whole goal is
to entertain, not to scare. So it's
a little gory. It takes place in
Los Angeles and it has touches of
things that I did and experienced in
my 20s. A lot of the fun,
know nights where we were out until
(02:53):
the wee morning and then, you know,
it has this really fun graphic horror
aspect. So hopefully people enjoy it. I
also have a short that's coming out
before that. Okay, so on November 12th
I have a short called Slush. Slush,
(03:14):
Slush that's going to be on Amazon.
It's only going to be digital. And
it is a horror story based on
the time that I spent working at
a juvenile detention center as a teacher.
And it's about a monster that is
roaming the juvenile detention center while a
(03:35):
teacher is hiding under her desk.
Alya Lei (03:39):
That sounds good, too. Okay, so the
short is coming out November 12th. I'm
not sure when this particular episode of
our podcast of my podcast is going
to be published, so it might be
a little after that, but that'll be
available on Amazon and it's called Slush.
Slush. Slush Digital only. Okay.
Vanessa Haney (03:58):
Yes.
Alya Lei (03:59):
And then Crotch Goblin.
Vanessa Haney (04:03):
So Crotch Goblin, that one is going
to be released November 26th. It will
be available in paperback and in digital.
Alya Lei (04:12):
Nice.
Vanessa Haney (04:13):
Both will be in Kindle Unlimited, so
anybody who subscribes to Kindle Unlimited will
have free access to it. So this
is actually going to be, though my
first published horror novel. So in the
past I've done short story collections. I
have written a few other novels that
I did not release out to the
(04:33):
public. So this is the first one
that is being released, and it's actually
part of a trilogy. So I am
currently working on the second book. And
that one is a. The first book
ends giving you an idea of what,
like, where the second one is going.
(04:53):
And then the second one is fun
music industry horror novel. So.
Alya Lei (05:01):
Nice. Nice. Okay. And any eta? How
long does it take to write a
novel for you and for the second
one to be published?
Vanessa Haney (05:09):
The writing doesn't take me terribly long.
I'm a pretty fast writer. What does
take me a while, though, is the
editing part, usually just because I want
to get a lot of feedback and
I want to make sure that it's
the best that it can be while
still holding true to the story that
(05:30):
I want to tell. I would say
that my goal right now is to
have it released in the spring, so
you won't have to wait too long
from this first book to the next
book. And then I'd like to have
the third one released by this time
next year. Year. So I'd like to
have all three done in, I guess,
(05:51):
the next year. That would be the
goal.
Alya Lei (05:53):
That's awesome. I love that. Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (05:56):
But I think for editing, I have
to give myself at least three or
four months, and for writing, I have
to give myself two to three months,
at least. This one, Crotch Goblin, took
me about seven or eight months to
write, and I think that's because I,
like, kind of shelved it for a
while and like, worked on other things.
(06:17):
But I think if I stay focused,
like, I should be able to get
it out in a few months.
Alya Lei (06:22):
Woo. This is exciting. Exciting. Can you
share and tell us, like, what the
difference is between, like, what makes something
a novel versus a short story? Is
it just the length?
Vanessa Haney (06:35):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So there's like
charts online that will tell you, like,
what is a short story, what is
a. A novel, what's a novelette? So
there are, there are charts for.
Alya Lei (06:52):
That and it's just based on number
of pages then That's, That's.
Vanessa Haney (06:56):
Or novella. Yeah, so it is based
on the number of pages, usually.
Alya Lei (07:01):
Okay, cool.
Vanessa Haney (07:02):
Yeah. Okay, so like 6, 7500 to
1900 or 19,000 60,000 to 100,000. So
60 to 100 is usually a novel.
Below 40,000 is usually a novella. The
rest, I think it looks like maybe
a novelette is 7500-1900 or 19,000. So
(07:25):
I don't know. It kind of varies,
I guess. Okay, yeah. I don't know.
A short story, I think can be
up to like a novelette length, because
I have read short stories that were
longer than 7,500 words, but maybe they
were just being advertised as a short
story and they were really a novelette.
I don't know.
Alya Lei (07:46):
I don't know. For anyone who's listening,
because it's all over the place right
now. For my audience, you know, if
they're new and they want to write,
like, what do you suggest? How would
someone get started.
Vanessa Haney (08:03):
To just write? I think is like,
the one thing that I have been
told over and over. I recently got
kind of a mentor who's been helping
me out a lot, and she writes
all over the place and she has
120 things on Amazon. She is in
all sorts of anthologies and collections. And
I always meet with her and I
(08:23):
want to talk with her about how
do I market, how do I find
the right title, how do I find
the right cover? And the one thing
that she always tells me is that
I need to just write. She's like,
you're so worried about doing all these
other things. You need to write. Because
(08:45):
if you don't write, you can't build
an audience and you can't have. You
won't have success as a writer because
you haven't done it. And so I
think that to write is really what
I would tell somebody who wants to
get into it and to find some
accountability, because so much of it is
about having like a schedule or being
(09:06):
able to kind of fit it into
your routine. Otherwise it always gets put
on the back burner as just this
hobby. And so I think that what's
really important is for you to find
the time to do it, to make
it a priority and to find somebody
else who wants to keep you accountable.
I know I started. I have a
writers group that I started at my
(09:28):
local library. It actually has over 40
members. About 12 to 15 show up
for meetings regularly. We have like a
rotation. You know, they'll be like people
that rotate in and out throughout the
year. But it has really helped me
to consistently write because we do critiques.
(09:49):
We do. This month is National Novel
Writing Month, the month of November. So
my meeting is going to be a
writing sprint.
Alya Lei (09:59):
So.
Vanessa Haney (10:00):
So for an hour and a half,
everyone's going to come and they're just
going to write. So I think, yeah,
if you want to get started, just.
You have to fit it into your
schedule. You have to find somebody to
help you with accountability and you have
to just do it.
Alya Lei (10:14):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (10:15):
You can't be afraid of something you
haven't done yet.
Alya Lei (10:19):
It's all in our imagination. But that
fear feels real, you know, in terms
of. Not in terms of thinking wanting
to do something, but afraid of the
negative outcome. So it kind of interesting
pauses, you know, us from moving forward
or even taking action in the first
step, you know?
Vanessa Haney (10:39):
Yeah. I have a friend who has
been talking about writing for a while
and she was like. She had talked
to her therapist about it and she
was like, I just am afraid to.
And I was like, well, what are
you afraid of? Because if you're afraid
of failing at writing because people don't
(11:00):
like it, you have to write something
first before you can worry about releasing
it and having people write it. And
if you're afraid of not being able
to complete something or failing at the
actual writing process, there's no limit to
how long you have to actually finish
a piece of writing. You can take
20 years to work on a manuscript.
(11:21):
It's like. So there's nothing that's requiring
you to like pass or fail in
any way. It's like, just start writing.
Yeah, but I know it's hard.
Alya Lei (11:32):
It is. It can be. Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (11:34):
We just talked about it yesterday, so
I'm hoping she is okay.
Alya Lei (11:37):
Fingers crossed.
Vanessa Haney (11:39):
Yeah, I know. Like, I think part
of it is just like opening a
document or pulling out a piece of
paper and just starting to like, start
with a sentence and then see where
it goes. I know we talk a
lot in my writing group about pantsers
versus plotters and Pants. So pantsers. Pantsers
(11:59):
are people who write by the seat
of their pants. So they just write
without knowing for sure what's going to
happen, what the ending is. They don't
really know, like, the overall plot. They're
just writing with this story they have
in mind.
Alya Lei (12:15):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (12:16):
Or with characters they have in mind.
Alya Lei (12:18):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (12:19):
Plotters like to have some sort of
an outline. And some people have very
detailed outlines. Some people have loose outlines.
I fall into the plotter. I tend
to. For longer works, I tend to
have, like, notes on what's going to
happen, how I'm going to get there.
Usually there's a lot of different paths
that the story goes down that isn't
(12:40):
necessarily in my outline, but I always
try and hit all of the beats
that I planned.
Alya Lei (12:45):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (12:46):
And I think that one of the
main differences between the plotters and the
pantsers comes in editing. Because as a
plotter, there's a lot of things that
I know have to happen, so I
plan in advance. So I can drop
hints or foreshadowing or something. But if
you're a pantser, you have to write
the book and then go back to
(13:08):
change those things or while doing your
writing, go back to it, make those
changes. So there's a lot more editing
with the pantser approach to writing.
Alya Lei (13:17):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (13:18):
But a lot of people are successful
pantsers.
Alya Lei (13:22):
Yeah. And I feel like it depends
on how. What. What would work best
for the individual. Right. Like. Like, I
feel like my brain could work with
an outline, but my natural. Not that
I'm a writer, but, like. But if
I was to be a writer, which
I'm thinking about doing, actually to create
a web series. But if I was
to write, I definitely think I'm more
(13:44):
of a hanser, Definitely. And, like, just
going back in and, like, filling it
out like, oh, look, this happened. Oh,
well, I need to make that make
sense back there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vanessa Haney (13:56):
I mean, I don't think there's any
wrong way to write. I think just,
like, spending the time doing it, and
I know that I keep reminding myself,
like, I need to just spend the
time to do it. So this month
has really helped. The National Novel Writing
Month has really helped me because I'm
like, I just have. This month am
going to. The goal is to write
50,000 words. That's what the National Novel
(14:19):
Writing Month goal is for the entire
month. So. The entire month. So you
have to write 50,000 words by the
end of November.
Alya Lei (14:26):
Okay. Ideally, in a cohesive story, not
just, like, random paragraphs. Okay.
Vanessa Haney (14:36):
So I'm in a couple of different
leaderboards that keep track. Like, I enter
how many words I write every day,
and I get to see where I
am in the leaderboard with the other
people in my group. So that has
also been great accountability for me. And
you can do that year round. It's
not just for November. There's, like, websites
(14:56):
where you can have groups and leaderboards
and stuff and keep track of how
much you're writing. But I have found
that that has helped me this month.
I'm already on chapter four. I'm feeling
good. It's only the seventh.
Alya Lei (15:10):
It's only the seventh. Yes, yes. That's
really good.
Vanessa Haney (15:15):
Thanks. Yeah, yeah. I think that writing
for me can be just a really
nice outlet. So I think that that's
what's been the most helpful, especially over,
like, the last few months that have
been pretty hectic. Like, having the opportunity
to sit down and kind of be
(15:38):
immersed in something that I created that's
not real, that I have control over
can really therapeutic.
Alya Lei (15:46):
Yes. Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (15:47):
Especially when you write horror because, you
know, you can just decide to do
something horrible to a character, get a
lot of aggression out.
Alya Lei (15:55):
Yes, yes. Oh, that's a. That's a
great. That's a great. What's that called?
Selling point. If anybody's thinking about writing,
that's a great selling point. Like, in
horror, even if, like, you don't do
anything with it. That's. Yeah, yeah.
Vanessa Haney (16:12):
I also like the idea of just,
like, writing stuff so that my kids
will have things, you know, things that
I've written that even if I don't
publish it, like, coming across later on
down the line, like, that I wrote
this story or for my son, the
YA book that I wrote. It was
(16:34):
stories that I had been making up
for him when we were driving in
the car. And so when he's older,
that book, when he reads it, he's
going to be like, these are the
stories that she was telling me.
Alya Lei (16:46):
Yeah. So you're leaving a legacy, too.
Vanessa Haney (16:50):
Yeah. And I mean, they. Once they're
on, like, Amazon, as long as they're
not taken down, you know, 50 years
from now, if Amazon, which likely will
still be there, it will. They'll still
be up 100 years from now. If
Amazon is still there, they'll still be
up for sale. So, you know, having
(17:12):
that out there is also a really
nice part of writing. Knowing that, like,
you're reaching people and having some sort
of impact on people's lives.
Alya Lei (17:22):
Yeah. That's wonderful. And so this is
regarding self publishing, right. In terms of,
for the, for Amazon?
Vanessa Haney (17:31):
I mean, yeah, for the most part
I would say indie publishing because if
you're traditionally published, they can decide at
any point to remove your books because
they're not selling. So for self publishing,
you have control over it being there
and it won't get taken down. So
yes, for self publishing you will have
(17:52):
a lasting impact as long as you
want it there and your, your predecessors
want it there.
Alya Lei (17:59):
Yeah. So for self publishing like this
might be redundant, but what is like
the first step on learning how to
self publish? Do you just go into
Amazon and you read about it or
how do you start self publishing if
you want to share, if you can't?
Vanessa Haney (18:19):
It's complicated.
Alya Lei (18:20):
Oh no, it's not the answer I
was hoping for.
Vanessa Haney (18:25):
Well, the actual process of doing it
is not. But understanding all of the
intricacies is something that I think I
will never stop. Stop learning. I think
that there will always be lessons that
I have to learn, sometimes the hard
way. So things like if you're going
(18:45):
to indie publish, you're going to need
a really nice title. I mean a
really nice. Well, you'll need a nice
title, but you'll also need a really
nice cover. So paying somebody to do
a cover is worth it. I pay
a company to do it. It's about
$100 and they, you know, they talk
with you and design it for you
(19:07):
there. If you are looking for something
like you want somebody to draw, illustrate
a cover that looks a certain way,
you know, it could cost 3, 4,
$500. I know that there's a horror
author that I have been friends with
on TikTok for a while and her
cover, she has somebody design and this
(19:29):
most recent one, they actually illustrated it
for her. But the COVID is really
important because when you are putting something
up on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
or any of the different websites, your
cover is going to be so tiny.
Right. It's just a little thumbnail picture
that people are seeing. So you need
(19:50):
to make sure that what you're putting
on there is very clear. When it's
not a large picture and that it
doesn't look messy, it looks professional and
well designed. And I think that that
is one of the first things if
you are going to release a book
that I would heavily think about making
(20:12):
sure that it looks good. I would
also recommend getting an editor to at
least do a copy and line edit.
They sometimes are considered different, but today
a lot of the editors that I've
talked to will kind of use copy
editing and line editing interchange. But Their
job at that, for that type of
editing is to really polish your writing
(20:34):
and make sure that, like, what you
have written is the best it can
be and shines. And so sometimes my
editor will say things like, you know,
this sentence doesn't make sense, or, you
know, didn't she do this earlier? Things
like that they don't understand why they
feel this way. And that makes me
(20:55):
think about what needs to be rewritten.
And then also, you know, they'll tell
me that I repeated a word or
that I need to use a synonym
because this one, they don't like how
it sounds and here's why. And just
like, they give you a bunch of
things to think about and then, you
know, it's up to you if you
decide that you agree with them or
(21:16):
not. But this book was 72,000 words.
I had about 900 and something notes
for my editor, like comments of like
commas or taking out a said or,
you know, something didn't make sense or
something they absolutely loved. And so it
(21:36):
took me a long time to go
through it. And I think that there's
so much value, though, in that editor.
And people will say on your Amazon
reviews that they can tell you didn't
have an editor or that you need
a better editor.
Alya Lei (21:52):
Whoa.
Vanessa Haney (21:52):
And some people will stop reading your
book if it's not proofread. Well, so
I think if we're talking about, like,
how do you get into it and
what do you think about the biggest
things to begin with once you've written
it? Because obviously, like I said, the
first step is writing it once you've
written it. You need to start thinking
about, like, how. How is it going
to be perceived by people and making
(22:14):
sure that you have a good cover
and a good editor. Then there's a
lot of different ways that you can
go when it comes to actually doing
the publishing of it. You can go
to ingramspark and you can do everything
through that, which can go to all
different platforms and all different stores for
(22:37):
paperbacks or hardcover. If you want it,
like in a local store or something
usually, or the library, they'll tell you
you have to go through IngramSpark because
that's who all of the companies use.
If you just want it on Amazon,
you can do the paper print, so
it'll be up on Amazon. People can
(22:58):
order the hardcover or the paperback or
the digital on Amazon, and that is
easy. You can even design covers on
Amazon if you wanted to, although I
still recommend that you hire somebody to
do it. But you can design it
on There Amazon will help with proofreading
it sort of. And you can upload
(23:23):
the digital version also you could you
upload things as a PDF so and
then it asks you to preview it
to make sure that it looks good.
So the actual process of giving, getting
it up on Amazon is pretty easy.
The other thing it's going to ask
you though is keywords. And that has
been a whole learning area in itself.
(23:46):
I knew a little bit about marketing
going in, but like figuring out keywords
and what sections to put your book
in can be really challenging. So this
time I decided to try using AI
to find some keywords to see if
it could tell me like what are
the keywords of the best selling horror
(24:06):
books right now? Right. And then what
would the best keywords be for my
book and giving it my synopsis. We'll
see how that goes. Because this will
be the first time that I've released
a book using that as an option.
But I've heard from a lot of
authors recently that that has been really
(24:26):
helpful and you can use like ChatGPT
or some other open source to like
give you a marketing plan that like
specifically relates to your genre, your book,
like what the topics are. Again, don't
know if that's like great advice or
not, but I'm trying it this time
(24:49):
and we're gonna see how it goes.
There's a lot of research that people
use to figure out what to do
for the marketing of the book. And
before you publish it, you really have
to have done that because you need
those keywords, you need to know what
sections to put your book in, where
are your read is actually looking and
does the do the genres that you're
(25:10):
picking actually relate to the content of
the book? And then also making sure
that your synopsis is good and the
use of subtitles as a. There's like
an option for subtitle using that to
kind of say some of like the
main tropes of your book. So like
(25:31):
strong female lead or you know, monster
or something like that so that people
know like what to expect in the
book as like part of the title,
as part of like the headline that
they see.
Alya Lei (25:47):
Wow.
Vanessa Haney (25:48):
Yeah. There's so much and I have,
I am a very early on in
the process of learning all of the
ins and outs and learning the marketing.
But I've been taking courses whenever I
can and there's some great fun free
courses that are offered through like Facebook
groups or through writers groups that I'm
in. So hearing about like what is
(26:11):
going on in the Industry as a
whole has been very helpful with figuring
out self publishing and indie publishing. So,
yeah, we'll see. I, for now, I'm
going to stay indie published and hope
that it works out.
Alya Lei (26:26):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (26:26):
And a lot of my peers in
my, in my writers group have been
deciding that they really would like to
be traditionally published, so waiting to see
how that goes for some of them.
But a lot of them are like,
oh, my backup plan is to just,
you know, self publish it to do
the indie route. And I'm like, I'm
(26:49):
here to help when you're ready. Yeah,
by then maybe I'll be like, I
don't know, moderately good at it.
Alya Lei (26:56):
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you, you made me
think of a potential idea for you
is being a mentor, like a paid
mentor.
Vanessa Haney (27:08):
Oh, wow.
Alya Lei (27:09):
Yeah. Because like, so like, you're already,
you've already published short stories. You're about
to publish your first novel, official novel.
Right. You already have a lot of
experience, even though you still have more
to learn. But there's people who are
like, maybe just beginning and maybe they
don't want to go through all that
time and effort to research everything. And
(27:32):
you could potentially be a mentor to
someone brand new, paid, you know, and
it helps, and it's a win win
because it helps them streamline and they
get forward progress and you get paid
for your experience and expertise.
Vanessa Haney (27:48):
Oh, I like it. Maybe, maybe give
me like a few more years to
feel like I have enough out that
I could be like, oh, I know
what I'm doing.
Alya Lei (27:58):
I think you know what you're doing.
Vanessa Haney (28:00):
Yeah, I think it's a lot of
trial and error right now, but that
is marketing. I think that's the problem
with marketing is that it is trial
and error. Right. Like, you don't know
what's gonna work with people and what
isn't until you try it. And all
of my experience in marketing in the
past has been like that. You know,
you try something out and sometimes it
works great, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes mistakes
(28:24):
actually turn out to be really beneficial
for you. So it just, it's hard.
And I try to, like, remember that
especially in the writing industry, like in
putting out books, you know, there's millions
of other people also putting out books
and, you know, what sets you apart
and how you approach it. It's just
(28:45):
going to take time for people to
learn your brand and to get to
know you. And so, like remembering that
the marketing is all trial and error
and that it takes time, it can
be really helpful because like we talked
about, like, it is really hard to
not be afraid that people won't like
it or that no one will read
it or that you'll feel like you
(29:06):
failed. And so trying to remember that,
like, getting one person to read it
is great. Getting 20 people to read
it is great. Getting 50 people to
read it is great. Like, just reminding
yourself that, like, marketing takes time and
is trial and error and little victories
is what you're kind of looking for
(29:26):
with.
Alya Lei (29:26):
Yes.
Vanessa Haney (29:27):
I mean, it's the same with film.
Right. The film industry is, like, the
same way. It's a trial and error,
and it takes time. You don't just
get to direct a movie straight out
of high school. You know, it takes
a lot of time.
Alya Lei (29:39):
You do some shorts and then you
learn and then you do something else.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vanessa Haney (29:44):
And like, you know, you write, you
make a short film, and this one
you thought was terrible, but it wins
a bunch of awards, and then you
make another one that you think is
great and it doesn't do well at
all, and you're like, okay, I need
to try something different this time. And
it's just like that. So maybe that,
you know, being in film helped me
to have a little bit of different
perspective on it.
Alya Lei (30:05):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (30:05):
I do think it also helped me
to be in film previously, because I
can remember that writing, although I enjoy
it and it's creative, is still a
business.
Alya Lei (30:16):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (30:17):
And when you work in the film
industry, it's still a business, whether you're
acting or you're directing or you're painting
scenery or faces. It is. You know,
your art is there, but it is
still a business. And that's one of
those other things that people often forget
(30:38):
when they get into writing is like,
yes, it's art. And yes, people are
out there looking for books, but you
know what's going to make your special?
How are you going to let people
know about it?
Alya Lei (30:48):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (30:50):
And, yeah, it takes time. Yeah.
Alya Lei (30:53):
Yes.
Vanessa Haney (30:53):
Which goes back to the. You have
to be writing. That's why the person
that has been kind of working as
my mentor has been continually telling me
that I need to just write. So
really writing, like, if you don't write,
there isn't anything to actually, like, put
up or promote. So the most important
thing really is the writing. And so
(31:14):
that's, I think, what I would like
for people to take out of, I
guess, this podcast, is that if you
want to write, you can. I did
not have experience in the writing world,
in the literary world, and I sat
down and I wrote and I wrote
(31:35):
a lot, and I got out a
lot of feelings and, you know, worked
through all sorts of things through my
writing. Even though I write horror, you
know, there's little bits of me in
every story. And I was able to
figure out, you know, indie and self
publishing myself. And it is open to
(31:55):
anybody who is interested in doing it.
There are Facebook groups, there's advice all
over the Internet. There's Reddit subgroups. There's
everything there for you. So if you
want to do it, the first step
is really to just start writing.
Alya Lei (32:11):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (32:11):
And then worry about everything else after.
Alya Lei (32:14):
I love that so much. All right,
I know you have to get going
last minute. Is there anything else that
you'd like to share again? Your handles
to follow you and anything else?
Vanessa Haney (32:26):
Yeah, check out my books on Amazon.
So I have stories to curl your
toes bloody ever after. I will have
Crotch Goblin and Slush, Slush, Slush, Slush.
So all of those will be available
on Amazon. I also have a TikTok
in which I tell ghost stories and
(32:47):
go to creepy places, usually in the
Pacific Northwest, but if we travel somewhere,
I try and go to some creepy
places there as well. And you can
check that out. It is Van Haney
Books, and that's on TikTok. And then
I have Dystopian Ness, which is on
Instagram.
Alya Lei (33:06):
That was awesome. Thank you so much,
Vanessa.
Vanessa Haney (33:09):
Well, it's so fun to be on
your show.
Alya Lei (33:11):
Thank you so much for listening to
Conversations with Aaliyah Lei. I'd love to
hear from you. Follow me on Instagram
@ aleah a l y A L
E I.
Welcome to conversations with Aaliyah Ley. Tune
in for inspiration, information and upliftment.
Alya Lei (00:06):
As creatives and entrepreneurs share their journeys,
challenges and successes. Today we have Vanessa
Haney. Yes, Vanessa grew up in the
new age circus known as the entertainment
industry. She was first published in an
anthology of poems in 1997. In the
early 2000s, she was showcased in young
(00:27):
filmmaker competitions for her screenplays. And in
2018, while getting her master's in education,
she self published her first book of
short stories, stories to curl your toes.
Now, after two children and a move
to the Pacific Northwest, she's unleashing her
stories into the world once again. Vanessa,
(00:49):
thank you so much for being here
again. Tell me, I think in October
you were about to release Safest in
the Light, right?
Vanessa Haney (00:57):
Yes, safest. So yes, things change. It
has been renamed, it went to an
editor, it went to beta readers. And
I wouldn't say any major changes were
made, but there were some little changes
that were made and it is now.
This is going to make you laugh.
(01:18):
It's called Crotch Goblin because it's about
a party girl who gets impregnated by
a monster and has to run from
this group of blood and energy sucking
monsters that are trying to kill them.
(01:38):
So her baby is this hybrid human
monster.
Alya Lei (01:43):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (01:44):
Making it a literal crotch goblin.
Alya Lei (01:48):
Nice, nice. I love it. So yes.
Vanessa Haney (01:51):
Yeah. There's also like a kind of
marketing approach with that whole like having
something that's a title that's a little
bit jarring or a lot of people
have been putting curse words or profanity
in their titles because it quickly grabs
somebody's attention. So we'll see if it
(02:12):
works. I don't know. It's a risk.
I know the title for some people
has been like, ooh, that doesn't interest
me. And other people are like, that
sounds so fun. So we'll see.
Alya Lei (02:23):
So is it published? Is it out
then?
Vanessa Haney (02:24):
So it will be out on November
26th. So it's available for pre order
right now.
Alya Lei (02:31):
Nice.
Vanessa Haney (02:32):
And it's fun. You know, I write
really fun horror. My whole goal is
to entertain, not to scare. So it's
a little gory. It takes place in
Los Angeles and it has touches of
things that I did and experienced in
my 20s. A lot of the fun,
know nights where we were out until
(02:53):
the wee morning and then, you know,
it has this really fun graphic horror
aspect. So hopefully people enjoy it. I
also have a short that's coming out
before that. Okay, so on November 12th
I have a short called Slush. Slush,
(03:14):
Slush that's going to be on Amazon.
It's only going to be digital. And
it is a horror story based on
the time that I spent working at
a juvenile detention center as a teacher.
And it's about a monster that is
roaming the juvenile detention center while a
(03:35):
teacher is hiding under her desk.
Alya Lei (03:39):
That sounds good, too. Okay, so the
short is coming out November 12th. I'm
not sure when this particular episode of
our podcast of my podcast is going
to be published, so it might be
a little after that, but that'll be
available on Amazon and it's called Slush.
Slush. Slush Digital only. Okay.
Vanessa Haney (03:58):
Yes.
Alya Lei (03:59):
And then Crotch Goblin.
Vanessa Haney (04:03):
So Crotch Goblin, that one is going
to be released November 26th. It will
be available in paperback and in digital.
Alya Lei (04:12):
Nice.
Vanessa Haney (04:13):
Both will be in Kindle Unlimited, so
anybody who subscribes to Kindle Unlimited will
have free access to it. So this
is actually going to be, though my
first published horror novel. So in the
past I've done short story collections. I
have written a few other novels that
I did not release out to the
(04:33):
public. So this is the first one
that is being released, and it's actually
part of a trilogy. So I am
currently working on the second book. And
that one is a. The first book
ends giving you an idea of what,
like, where the second one is going.
(04:53):
And then the second one is fun
music industry horror novel. So.
Alya Lei (05:01):
Nice. Nice. Okay. And any eta? How
long does it take to write a
novel for you and for the second
one to be published?
Vanessa Haney (05:09):
The writing doesn't take me terribly long.
I'm a pretty fast writer. What does
take me a while, though, is the
editing part, usually just because I want
to get a lot of feedback and
I want to make sure that it's
the best that it can be while
still holding true to the story that
(05:30):
I want to tell. I would say
that my goal right now is to
have it released in the spring, so
you won't have to wait too long
from this first book to the next
book. And then I'd like to have
the third one released by this time
next year. Year. So I'd like to
have all three done in, I guess,
(05:51):
the next year. That would be the
goal.
Alya Lei (05:53):
That's awesome. I love that. Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (05:56):
But I think for editing, I have
to give myself at least three or
four months, and for writing, I have
to give myself two to three months,
at least. This one, Crotch Goblin, took
me about seven or eight months to
write, and I think that's because I,
like, kind of shelved it for a
while and like, worked on other things.
(06:17):
But I think if I stay focused,
like, I should be able to get
it out in a few months.
Alya Lei (06:22):
Woo. This is exciting. Exciting. Can you
share and tell us, like, what the
difference is between, like, what makes something
a novel versus a short story? Is
it just the length?
Vanessa Haney (06:35):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So there's like
charts online that will tell you, like,
what is a short story, what is
a. A novel, what's a novelette? So
there are, there are charts for.
Alya Lei (06:52):
That and it's just based on number
of pages then That's, That's.
Vanessa Haney (06:56):
Or novella. Yeah, so it is based
on the number of pages, usually.
Alya Lei (07:01):
Okay, cool.
Vanessa Haney (07:02):
Yeah. Okay, so like 6, 7500 to
1900 or 19,000 60,000 to 100,000. So
60 to 100 is usually a novel.
Below 40,000 is usually a novella. The
rest, I think it looks like maybe
a novelette is 7500-1900 or 19,000. So
(07:25):
I don't know. It kind of varies,
I guess. Okay, yeah. I don't know.
A short story, I think can be
up to like a novelette length, because
I have read short stories that were
longer than 7,500 words, but maybe they
were just being advertised as a short
story and they were really a novelette.
I don't know.
Alya Lei (07:46):
I don't know. For anyone who's listening,
because it's all over the place right
now. For my audience, you know, if
they're new and they want to write,
like, what do you suggest? How would
someone get started.
Vanessa Haney (08:03):
To just write? I think is like,
the one thing that I have been
told over and over. I recently got
kind of a mentor who's been helping
me out a lot, and she writes
all over the place and she has
120 things on Amazon. She is in
all sorts of anthologies and collections. And
I always meet with her and I
(08:23):
want to talk with her about how
do I market, how do I find
the right title, how do I find
the right cover? And the one thing
that she always tells me is that
I need to just write. She's like,
you're so worried about doing all these
other things. You need to write. Because
(08:45):
if you don't write, you can't build
an audience and you can't have. You
won't have success as a writer because
you haven't done it. And so I
think that to write is really what
I would tell somebody who wants to
get into it and to find some
accountability, because so much of it is
about having like a schedule or being
(09:06):
able to kind of fit it into
your routine. Otherwise it always gets put
on the back burner as just this
hobby. And so I think that what's
really important is for you to find
the time to do it, to make
it a priority and to find somebody
else who wants to keep you accountable.
I know I started. I have a
writers group that I started at my
(09:28):
local library. It actually has over 40
members. About 12 to 15 show up
for meetings regularly. We have like a
rotation. You know, they'll be like people
that rotate in and out throughout the
year. But it has really helped me
to consistently write because we do critiques.
(09:49):
We do. This month is National Novel
Writing Month, the month of November. So
my meeting is going to be a
writing sprint.
Alya Lei (09:59):
So.
Vanessa Haney (10:00):
So for an hour and a half,
everyone's going to come and they're just
going to write. So I think, yeah,
if you want to get started, just.
You have to fit it into your
schedule. You have to find somebody to
help you with accountability and you have
to just do it.
Alya Lei (10:14):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (10:15):
You can't be afraid of something you
haven't done yet.
Alya Lei (10:19):
It's all in our imagination. But that
fear feels real, you know, in terms
of. Not in terms of thinking wanting
to do something, but afraid of the
negative outcome. So it kind of interesting
pauses, you know, us from moving forward
or even taking action in the first
step, you know?
Vanessa Haney (10:39):
Yeah. I have a friend who has
been talking about writing for a while
and she was like. She had talked
to her therapist about it and she
was like, I just am afraid to.
And I was like, well, what are
you afraid of? Because if you're afraid
of failing at writing because people don't
(11:00):
like it, you have to write something
first before you can worry about releasing
it and having people write it. And
if you're afraid of not being able
to complete something or failing at the
actual writing process, there's no limit to
how long you have to actually finish
a piece of writing. You can take
20 years to work on a manuscript.
(11:21):
It's like. So there's nothing that's requiring
you to like pass or fail in
any way. It's like, just start writing.
Yeah, but I know it's hard.
Alya Lei (11:32):
It is. It can be. Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (11:34):
We just talked about it yesterday, so
I'm hoping she is okay.
Alya Lei (11:37):
Fingers crossed.
Vanessa Haney (11:39):
Yeah, I know. Like, I think part
of it is just like opening a
document or pulling out a piece of
paper and just starting to like, start
with a sentence and then see where
it goes. I know we talk a
lot in my writing group about pantsers
versus plotters and Pants. So pantsers. Pantsers
(11:59):
are people who write by the seat
of their pants. So they just write
without knowing for sure what's going to
happen, what the ending is. They don't
really know, like, the overall plot. They're
just writing with this story they have
in mind.
Alya Lei (12:15):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (12:16):
Or with characters they have in mind.
Alya Lei (12:18):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (12:19):
Plotters like to have some sort of
an outline. And some people have very
detailed outlines. Some people have loose outlines.
I fall into the plotter. I tend
to. For longer works, I tend to
have, like, notes on what's going to
happen, how I'm going to get there.
Usually there's a lot of different paths
that the story goes down that isn't
(12:40):
necessarily in my outline, but I always
try and hit all of the beats
that I planned.
Alya Lei (12:45):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (12:46):
And I think that one of the
main differences between the plotters and the
pantsers comes in editing. Because as a
plotter, there's a lot of things that
I know have to happen, so I
plan in advance. So I can drop
hints or foreshadowing or something. But if
you're a pantser, you have to write
the book and then go back to
(13:08):
change those things or while doing your
writing, go back to it, make those
changes. So there's a lot more editing
with the pantser approach to writing.
Alya Lei (13:17):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (13:18):
But a lot of people are successful
pantsers.
Alya Lei (13:22):
Yeah. And I feel like it depends
on how. What. What would work best
for the individual. Right. Like. Like, I
feel like my brain could work with
an outline, but my natural. Not that
I'm a writer, but, like. But if
I was to be a writer, which
I'm thinking about doing, actually to create
a web series. But if I was
to write, I definitely think I'm more
(13:44):
of a hanser, Definitely. And, like, just
going back in and, like, filling it
out like, oh, look, this happened. Oh,
well, I need to make that make
sense back there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vanessa Haney (13:56):
I mean, I don't think there's any
wrong way to write. I think just,
like, spending the time doing it, and
I know that I keep reminding myself,
like, I need to just spend the
time to do it. So this month
has really helped. The National Novel Writing
Month has really helped me because I'm
like, I just have. This month am
going to. The goal is to write
50,000 words. That's what the National Novel
(14:19):
Writing Month goal is for the entire
month. So. The entire month. So you
have to write 50,000 words by the
end of November.
Alya Lei (14:26):
Okay. Ideally, in a cohesive story, not
just, like, random paragraphs. Okay.
Vanessa Haney (14:36):
So I'm in a couple of different
leaderboards that keep track. Like, I enter
how many words I write every day,
and I get to see where I
am in the leaderboard with the other
people in my group. So that has
also been great accountability for me. And
you can do that year round. It's
not just for November. There's, like, websites
(14:56):
where you can have groups and leaderboards
and stuff and keep track of how
much you're writing. But I have found
that that has helped me this month.
I'm already on chapter four. I'm feeling
good. It's only the seventh.
Alya Lei (15:10):
It's only the seventh. Yes, yes. That's
really good.
Vanessa Haney (15:15):
Thanks. Yeah, yeah. I think that writing
for me can be just a really
nice outlet. So I think that that's
what's been the most helpful, especially over,
like, the last few months that have
been pretty hectic. Like, having the opportunity
to sit down and kind of be
(15:38):
immersed in something that I created that's
not real, that I have control over
can really therapeutic.
Alya Lei (15:46):
Yes. Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (15:47):
Especially when you write horror because, you
know, you can just decide to do
something horrible to a character, get a
lot of aggression out.
Alya Lei (15:55):
Yes, yes. Oh, that's a. That's a
great. That's a great. What's that called?
Selling point. If anybody's thinking about writing,
that's a great selling point. Like, in
horror, even if, like, you don't do
anything with it. That's. Yeah, yeah.
Vanessa Haney (16:12):
I also like the idea of just,
like, writing stuff so that my kids
will have things, you know, things that
I've written that even if I don't
publish it, like, coming across later on
down the line, like, that I wrote
this story or for my son, the
YA book that I wrote. It was
(16:34):
stories that I had been making up
for him when we were driving in
the car. And so when he's older,
that book, when he reads it, he's
going to be like, these are the
stories that she was telling me.
Alya Lei (16:46):
Yeah. So you're leaving a legacy, too.
Vanessa Haney (16:50):
Yeah. And I mean, they. Once they're
on, like, Amazon, as long as they're
not taken down, you know, 50 years
from now, if Amazon, which likely will
still be there, it will. They'll still
be up 100 years from now. If
Amazon is still there, they'll still be
up for sale. So, you know, having
(17:12):
that out there is also a really
nice part of writing. Knowing that, like,
you're reaching people and having some sort
of impact on people's lives.
Alya Lei (17:22):
Yeah. That's wonderful. And so this is
regarding self publishing, right. In terms of,
for the, for Amazon?
Vanessa Haney (17:31):
I mean, yeah, for the most part
I would say indie publishing because if
you're traditionally published, they can decide at
any point to remove your books because
they're not selling. So for self publishing,
you have control over it being there
and it won't get taken down. So
yes, for self publishing you will have
(17:52):
a lasting impact as long as you
want it there and your, your predecessors
want it there.
Alya Lei (17:59):
Yeah. So for self publishing like this
might be redundant, but what is like
the first step on learning how to
self publish? Do you just go into
Amazon and you read about it or
how do you start self publishing if
you want to share, if you can't?
Vanessa Haney (18:19):
It's complicated.
Alya Lei (18:20):
Oh no, it's not the answer I
was hoping for.
Vanessa Haney (18:25):
Well, the actual process of doing it
is not. But understanding all of the
intricacies is something that I think I
will never stop. Stop learning. I think
that there will always be lessons that
I have to learn, sometimes the hard
way. So things like if you're going
(18:45):
to indie publish, you're going to need
a really nice title. I mean a
really nice. Well, you'll need a nice
title, but you'll also need a really
nice cover. So paying somebody to do
a cover is worth it. I pay
a company to do it. It's about
$100 and they, you know, they talk
with you and design it for you
(19:07):
there. If you are looking for something
like you want somebody to draw, illustrate
a cover that looks a certain way,
you know, it could cost 3, 4,
$500. I know that there's a horror
author that I have been friends with
on TikTok for a while and her
cover, she has somebody design and this
(19:29):
most recent one, they actually illustrated it
for her. But the COVID is really
important because when you are putting something
up on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
or any of the different websites, your
cover is going to be so tiny.
Right. It's just a little thumbnail picture
that people are seeing. So you need
(19:50):
to make sure that what you're putting
on there is very clear. When it's
not a large picture and that it
doesn't look messy, it looks professional and
well designed. And I think that that
is one of the first things if
you are going to release a book
that I would heavily think about making
(20:12):
sure that it looks good. I would
also recommend getting an editor to at
least do a copy and line edit.
They sometimes are considered different, but today
a lot of the editors that I've
talked to will kind of use copy
editing and line editing interchange. But Their
job at that, for that type of
editing is to really polish your writing
(20:34):
and make sure that, like, what you
have written is the best it can
be and shines. And so sometimes my
editor will say things like, you know,
this sentence doesn't make sense, or, you
know, didn't she do this earlier? Things
like that they don't understand why they
feel this way. And that makes me
(20:55):
think about what needs to be rewritten.
And then also, you know, they'll tell
me that I repeated a word or
that I need to use a synonym
because this one, they don't like how
it sounds and here's why. And just
like, they give you a bunch of
things to think about and then, you
know, it's up to you if you
decide that you agree with them or
(21:16):
not. But this book was 72,000 words.
I had about 900 and something notes
for my editor, like comments of like
commas or taking out a said or,
you know, something didn't make sense or
something they absolutely loved. And so it
(21:36):
took me a long time to go
through it. And I think that there's
so much value, though, in that editor.
And people will say on your Amazon
reviews that they can tell you didn't
have an editor or that you need
a better editor.
Alya Lei (21:52):
Whoa.
Vanessa Haney (21:52):
And some people will stop reading your
book if it's not proofread. Well, so
I think if we're talking about, like,
how do you get into it and
what do you think about the biggest
things to begin with once you've written
it? Because obviously, like I said, the
first step is writing it once you've
written it. You need to start thinking
about, like, how. How is it going
to be perceived by people and making
(22:14):
sure that you have a good cover
and a good editor. Then there's a
lot of different ways that you can
go when it comes to actually doing
the publishing of it. You can go
to ingramspark and you can do everything
through that, which can go to all
different platforms and all different stores for
(22:37):
paperbacks or hardcover. If you want it,
like in a local store or something
usually, or the library, they'll tell you
you have to go through IngramSpark because
that's who all of the companies use.
If you just want it on Amazon,
you can do the paper print, so
it'll be up on Amazon. People can
(22:58):
order the hardcover or the paperback or
the digital on Amazon, and that is
easy. You can even design covers on
Amazon if you wanted to, although I
still recommend that you hire somebody to
do it. But you can design it
on There Amazon will help with proofreading
it sort of. And you can upload
(23:23):
the digital version also you could you
upload things as a PDF so and
then it asks you to preview it
to make sure that it looks good.
So the actual process of giving, getting
it up on Amazon is pretty easy.
The other thing it's going to ask
you though is keywords. And that has
been a whole learning area in itself.
(23:46):
I knew a little bit about marketing
going in, but like figuring out keywords
and what sections to put your book
in can be really challenging. So this
time I decided to try using AI
to find some keywords to see if
it could tell me like what are
the keywords of the best selling horror
(24:06):
books right now? Right. And then what
would the best keywords be for my
book and giving it my synopsis. We'll
see how that goes. Because this will
be the first time that I've released
a book using that as an option.
But I've heard from a lot of
authors recently that that has been really
(24:26):
helpful and you can use like ChatGPT
or some other open source to like
give you a marketing plan that like
specifically relates to your genre, your book,
like what the topics are. Again, don't
know if that's like great advice or
not, but I'm trying it this time
(24:49):
and we're gonna see how it goes.
There's a lot of research that people
use to figure out what to do
for the marketing of the book. And
before you publish it, you really have
to have done that because you need
those keywords, you need to know what
sections to put your book in, where
are your read is actually looking and
does the do the genres that you're
(25:10):
picking actually relate to the content of
the book? And then also making sure
that your synopsis is good and the
use of subtitles as a. There's like
an option for subtitle using that to
kind of say some of like the
main tropes of your book. So like
(25:31):
strong female lead or you know, monster
or something like that so that people
know like what to expect in the
book as like part of the title,
as part of like the headline that
they see.
Alya Lei (25:47):
Wow.
Vanessa Haney (25:48):
Yeah. There's so much and I have,
I am a very early on in
the process of learning all of the
ins and outs and learning the marketing.
But I've been taking courses whenever I
can and there's some great fun free
courses that are offered through like Facebook
groups or through writers groups that I'm
in. So hearing about like what is
(26:11):
going on in the Industry as a
whole has been very helpful with figuring
out self publishing and indie publishing. So,
yeah, we'll see. I, for now, I'm
going to stay indie published and hope
that it works out.
Alya Lei (26:26):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (26:26):
And a lot of my peers in
my, in my writers group have been
deciding that they really would like to
be traditionally published, so waiting to see
how that goes for some of them.
But a lot of them are like,
oh, my backup plan is to just,
you know, self publish it to do
the indie route. And I'm like, I'm
(26:49):
here to help when you're ready. Yeah,
by then maybe I'll be like, I
don't know, moderately good at it.
Alya Lei (26:56):
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you, you made me
think of a potential idea for you
is being a mentor, like a paid
mentor.
Vanessa Haney (27:08):
Oh, wow.
Alya Lei (27:09):
Yeah. Because like, so like, you're already,
you've already published short stories. You're about
to publish your first novel, official novel.
Right. You already have a lot of
experience, even though you still have more
to learn. But there's people who are
like, maybe just beginning and maybe they
don't want to go through all that
time and effort to research everything. And
(27:32):
you could potentially be a mentor to
someone brand new, paid, you know, and
it helps, and it's a win win
because it helps them streamline and they
get forward progress and you get paid
for your experience and expertise.
Vanessa Haney (27:48):
Oh, I like it. Maybe, maybe give
me like a few more years to
feel like I have enough out that
I could be like, oh, I know
what I'm doing.
Alya Lei (27:58):
I think you know what you're doing.
Vanessa Haney (28:00):
Yeah, I think it's a lot of
trial and error right now, but that
is marketing. I think that's the problem
with marketing is that it is trial
and error. Right. Like, you don't know
what's gonna work with people and what
isn't until you try it. And all
of my experience in marketing in the
past has been like that. You know,
you try something out and sometimes it
works great, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes mistakes
(28:24):
actually turn out to be really beneficial
for you. So it just, it's hard.
And I try to, like, remember that
especially in the writing industry, like in
putting out books, you know, there's millions
of other people also putting out books
and, you know, what sets you apart
and how you approach it. It's just
(28:45):
going to take time for people to
learn your brand and to get to
know you. And so, like remembering that
the marketing is all trial and error
and that it takes time, it can
be really helpful because like we talked
about, like, it is really hard to
not be afraid that people won't like
it or that no one will read
it or that you'll feel like you
(29:06):
failed. And so trying to remember that,
like, getting one person to read it
is great. Getting 20 people to read
it is great. Getting 50 people to
read it is great. Like, just reminding
yourself that, like, marketing takes time and
is trial and error and little victories
is what you're kind of looking for
(29:26):
with.
Alya Lei (29:26):
Yes.
Vanessa Haney (29:27):
I mean, it's the same with film.
Right. The film industry is, like, the
same way. It's a trial and error,
and it takes time. You don't just
get to direct a movie straight out
of high school. You know, it takes
a lot of time.
Alya Lei (29:39):
You do some shorts and then you
learn and then you do something else.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vanessa Haney (29:44):
And like, you know, you write, you
make a short film, and this one
you thought was terrible, but it wins
a bunch of awards, and then you
make another one that you think is
great and it doesn't do well at
all, and you're like, okay, I need
to try something different this time. And
it's just like that. So maybe that,
you know, being in film helped me
to have a little bit of different
perspective on it.
Alya Lei (30:05):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (30:05):
I do think it also helped me
to be in film previously, because I
can remember that writing, although I enjoy
it and it's creative, is still a
business.
Alya Lei (30:16):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (30:17):
And when you work in the film
industry, it's still a business, whether you're
acting or you're directing or you're painting
scenery or faces. It is. You know,
your art is there, but it is
still a business. And that's one of
those other things that people often forget
(30:38):
when they get into writing is like,
yes, it's art. And yes, people are
out there looking for books, but you
know what's going to make your special?
How are you going to let people
know about it?
Alya Lei (30:48):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (30:50):
And, yeah, it takes time. Yeah.
Alya Lei (30:53):
Yes.
Vanessa Haney (30:53):
Which goes back to the. You have
to be writing. That's why the person
that has been kind of working as
my mentor has been continually telling me
that I need to just write. So
really writing, like, if you don't write,
there isn't anything to actually, like, put
up or promote. So the most important
thing really is the writing. And so
(31:14):
that's, I think, what I would like
for people to take out of, I
guess, this podcast, is that if you
want to write, you can. I did
not have experience in the writing world,
in the literary world, and I sat
down and I wrote and I wrote
(31:35):
a lot, and I got out a
lot of feelings and, you know, worked
through all sorts of things through my
writing. Even though I write horror, you
know, there's little bits of me in
every story. And I was able to
figure out, you know, indie and self
publishing myself. And it is open to
(31:55):
anybody who is interested in doing it.
There are Facebook groups, there's advice all
over the Internet. There's Reddit subgroups. There's
everything there for you. So if you
want to do it, the first step
is really to just start writing.
Alya Lei (32:11):
Yeah.
Vanessa Haney (32:11):
And then worry about everything else after.
Alya Lei (32:14):
I love that so much. All right,
I know you have to get going
last minute. Is there anything else that
you'd like to share again? Your handles
to follow you and anything else?
Vanessa Haney (32:26):
Yeah, check out my books on Amazon.
So I have stories to curl your
toes bloody ever after. I will have
Crotch Goblin and Slush, Slush, Slush, Slush.
So all of those will be available
on Amazon. I also have a TikTok
in which I tell ghost stories and
(32:47):
go to creepy places, usually in the
Pacific Northwest, but if we travel somewhere,
I try and go to some creepy
places there as well. And you can
check that out. It is Van Haney
Books, and that's on TikTok. And then
I have Dystopian Ness, which is on
Instagram.
Alya Lei (33:06):
That was awesome. Thank you so much,
Vanessa.
Vanessa Haney (33:09):
Well, it's so fun to be on
your show.
Alya Lei (33:11):
Thank you so much for listening to
Conversations with Aaliyah Lei. I'd love to
hear from you. Follow me on Instagram
@ aleah a l y A L
E I.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com