November 4, 2024 • 26 mins
Soy sauce. Seems simple, right? But did you know there were dozens, maybe hundreds of types of soy sauce.
Let's step away from the ordinary in many North American Chinese and Japanese restaurants to explore the condiment that is most highly prized all over the world and a centerpiece of many regional cuisines.
We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, authors of three dozen (and counting!) cookbooks. We love to share our passion for food and cooking with you. Join us and let's talk about a condiment that can change the way you cook.
Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:
[01:11] Our one-minute cooking tip: Keep the lid on the pot to boil water more quickly.
[02:57] Let's talk about soy sauce. We'll focus on three basic types: Chinese, Korean, and Japanese, as well as the various subsets under those categories.
[23:09] What’s making us happy in food this week: an Indonesian cookbook (SAMBAL & COCONUT) and sweet red chili sauce.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bruce (00:01):
Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast
Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Mark (00:04):
And I'm Mark Scarborough.
And together with Bruce, we have writtenover three dozen cookbooks, are currently
working in editorial with our latest,which will be out in the summer of 2025.
But we're not going totalk about any of that.
Long food career, I don't know, tensof thousands of original recipes
developed and published for variousThings all the way from soy protein
(00:27):
isolates to the potato board.
Bruce (00:32):
Yeah.
So lay the soy company,
Mark (00:34):
the soy protein isolate, all that stuff.
Well, we've done a lot in the 25years of our career, but this is
our podcast about that very passion.
We've got a one minute.
cooking tip as always, whichalways goes over one minute.
We've got a whole segmentmaybe about soy sauce.
You don't know how much I'mgoing to disagree with you.
We got a whole segment about soy sauceand, um, more than you may want to know.
(00:58):
And in fact, soy sauce is not onething, but an entire category of things.
And we'll tell you what's makingus happy in food this week.
So let's get started.
Bruce (01:11):
Our one minute cooking tip.
Want to boil water faster?
Cover the pot.
See under one minute.
Mark (01:18):
Okay, you're right under one minute.
If you don't know this, I don't even know.
If you don't have a lid for a pot, thenput a baking sheet over it and that now
it can't be a baking sheet with a nonsticksurface, but put a baking sheet over it.
Over it.
Bruce (01:33):
Or even a piece of foil.
You want to keep the heat in there, right?
Because if it's evaporating and you'regetting a facial, then no, that, that
heat is going away rather than staying in
Mark (01:44):
there.
All right, let's, let's try to becool and keep this to a minute.
Okay, and get out of this real fast.
Okay, before we get to the next.
Before we get to the nextsegment of this podcast, let's
say that we have a newsletter.
Uh, the last one just went out, andit was all about the various kinds of
tree syrups we talked about on thispodcast, and where to order birch
syrup and, oh, you know, all the bits.
(02:04):
Birch syrup, and what else was in there?
Hickory syrup, and black walnutsyrup, and maple syrup, peach
syrup, our favorite kind of syrups.
Um, you want to check allthat out in our newsletter.
You can do that by going to ourwebsite, cookingwithbruceatmark.
com, or just bruceatmark.
com.
You can sign up.
On the landing page, the firstpage, the splash pages, they used
to call it, of a website, and downthere you'll see a link to sign up.
(02:27):
Again, I can't see your sign up,nor can I capture your email, nor
can, there can't be three nors,but okay, nor can the provider.
I'm sure you may have Thor.
What is Thor?
Neither, nor, and Thor?
Neither, nor, and Thor.
And then what?
Thor?
Thor?
I don't know.
Anyway, um, okay, we're getting off that.
(02:49):
Let's talk about soy sauce, becausesoy sauce isn't one thing, but
an entire category of things.
Bruce (02:57):
We've talked about using soy sauce instead of salt as a
one minute cooking tip before.
Yeah.
But soy sauce is more than just a genericingredient and it is more than just a
salty thing and there's tons of differentkinds of soy sauce made all over the
world and they are as different fromeach other as olive oils are as wine is.
(03:21):
It's crazy.
Treat soy sauce the way youwould treat like good olive oil.
Keep it in a dark place.
It will oxidize.
It will go off.
It doesn't last forever.
Mark (03:32):
So talk about the three basic kinds of soy sauce,
Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.
And I realized in saying this, Ihave hacked off all of Indonesia.
I've hacked off Southeast Asiaas an entire regional group.
I know there are lots of places makingsoy sauce, and there are even some fine
makers of soy sauce in North America rightnow, in the United States and Canada.
(03:54):
So, yes, this is true that thereare many places to make soy sauce,
but we want to talk about this.
Three types, Chinese, Korean, andJapanese, because they actually
represent styles of soy sauce.
This is like having a conversationabout what kind of apples do you like.
There are lots of different stylesof soy sauce, but let's just say
(04:15):
that Chinese soy sauce comes intwo basic styles, light and dark.
But, it does have a higher ratioof soybeans to wheat, so why don't
you talk about that for a second.
Well, I
Bruce (04:25):
want to talk about your apple metaphor for a second, because food
professionals and food writers andfood people on websites will argue with
you that certain apples must be usedfor certain kinds of desserts, like
this should only be a pie apple andthis should only be a baking apple.
Well, they're going to tell you thesame kind of things as soy sauces.
So depending upon the qualitiesof it, it will give it use.
Mark (04:49):
So I'm going to stop.
I just, I'm sorry.
We're going to have amarital argument here.
There are right apples for apple pie.
You do not use a golden,delicious apple in an apple pie.
A golden, delicious apple isgoing to dissolve in a pie.
You can't use it.
I mean, can you use it?
Yes, you can use it.
You're going to end upwith runny apple pie.
So I think that you're trying to begenerous here, but I think I think
(05:11):
that there are actually, uh, ways thatyou need to use proper ingredients.
We are cooking for professionals, andI think some of these soy sauces are
better suited for some applicationsthan others, but that doesn't mean you
have to go crazy, and as we're going totalk about later, as you will discover
in this episode, I, the writer, yes,Mark, like the cheap ass soy sauce.
Bruce (05:33):
He likes the kind of getting a little puffy.
Packets at like the airport
Mark (05:37):
when you get, God, don't judge me, but we'll get to that.
Okay, so let's, let's go back.
Okay.
Chinese style.
Bruce (05:44):
Okay, so Chinese style, and Mark said most Chinese style soy sauces
are made fermented and brewed witha higher ratio of soybeans to wheat.
Yes, wheat is a key ingredient in making.
Most soy sauces and
Mark (05:59):
so if you have a gluten intolerance or of course, I think
like you probably already know thisBut if you have a gluten intolerance,
you should know that soy sauce isnot a product You should be familiar
Bruce (06:08):
and what that gives you in Chinese style soy sauces is a very
strong soy flavor not necessarily highersaltiness, but really strong soy flavor.
My opinion about saltiness and soy sauce.
And yes, some styles of Japanese soysauce or Korean soy sauce tend to be
saltier because of the way they're made.
(06:29):
But in general, across all threeof these styles, Mark mentioned,
personally, I think salt is usedextra hard to cover up bad quality.
Oh, yes.
So the saltier, saltier soysauces tend not to be the best.
The best quality is sometimes if
Mark (06:48):
it has and if not if when when as it has salty notes that always
does, but those should be bright.
If it tastes like seawater tasteslike the ocean, it Bruce is right.
It's covering up something.
It's covering up aninferior product underneath.
It should not that, you know, okay, sonow I'm telling too much about myself.
(07:10):
But when I was a kid and we makehomemade ice cream, I could have
cared less about the ice cream.
I just.
I ate the rock salt on theice in the ice cream maker.
That's the only part I likedis the rock salt that was
adhering to the ice in the maker.
So, okay, I would eat that.
And, um, you know, when you eatthat, a little bit of salt on ice,
(07:31):
it has this really bright flavor.
But you know if you eatthat, too much salt.
Like you've over salted his stew.
It can get murky tasting.
That's the thing with soy sauce.
It can't taste murky or it shouldn't.
He says he who likes the cheapeststuff, but okay, go ahead.
But
Bruce (07:46):
you also said there were two basic styles of Chinese so it's just,
there is what is called light soy sauce.
and dark soy sauce.
Now, when you just look at thebottles, you may actually not be able
to see a difference in the color.
Sometimes the dark is a little bitdarker, but usually they're very similar.
What it is is flavor and texture.
(08:07):
Light soy sauce is what you wouldconsider to be the standard soy sauce.
If you were going to go outfor Chinese food, if there was
Mark (08:13):
say light Chinese style
Bruce (08:15):
soy sauce, if you went up for Chinese food and there was
soy sauce on the table, that'sprobably the light soy sauce.
Soy sauce
Mark (08:21):
it's gentler and it almost has a creaminess to it It's a it's
an interesting and very gentle andmoderate flavor and generally it's
not too dark although Bruce is rightlight and dark refers to texture and
in and kind of viscosity and all thatkind of stuff and flavor much less than
color, but In general, light soy sauceis more moderately brown in its color.
Bruce (08:47):
My everyday go to light soy sauce is Pearl River Bridge.
It's very common in Asianmarkets and in Chinese markets.
And I buy like the half gallon tubs of it.
But I do like to keep some higherend soy sauce in the house.
that I like to drizzle like on rice.
Pearl River Bridge is like what Icook with, but if I want something
(09:09):
to drizzle on a piece of fishor rice, I like Wanjia Shan.
And I'm sure that J A is not pronouncedJah, but what are you going to do?
Wanjia Shan, and it saysaged and it's from Taiwan.
It has a gentle beany flavor.
It smells like soy.
It's salty, but it's bright.
And as Mark said, It hasalmost a creamy edge to it.
(09:31):
It's really good.
Mark (09:32):
Right.
And that is in contrast to the darksoy sauce and is much more assertive.
It has a thicker quality to it.
It's, uh, dark soy sauceis great in braises.
Not so great, in my opinion,in stir fries, but better in
Chinese braises, in Asian braises.
Really deep, dark, umami, savory.
(09:54):
savory flavor to it.
You just have to be careful with darksoy sauce because you're not getting
the mushroom soy sauce in Chinese,uh, uh, uh uh, groceries stores.
And Asian groceries, mushroom soy,is of course flavored of mushrooms.
And we're not talking about that.
We're talking just about dark soy
Bruce (10:11):
sauce.
And dark soy sauce often Has a caramelcoloring added to it to make it darker,
and it is used actually as a coloringagent when you're cooking Chinese dishes.
So sometimes a recipe will call for,you know, a tablespoon of light soy
sauce and a half a teaspoon of dark.
And that half a teaspoonwill make that dark.
(10:32):
dish golden and darker brown.
And it's almost like what yourmother used to do with kitchen
bouquet, but you should tell her
Mark (10:39):
shit.
Thanks for insulting 1 billion Chinese.
Bruce (10:42):
Okay, go ahead and sing dark
Mark (10:43):
soy sauce.
Okay.
So that's the Chinese soy sauce and thelight and the dark and Bruce's favorite
Taiwanese brand, the one Josh on.
Aged light soy sauce versus PearlRiver Bridge light and dark soy sauce.
Let's move on to Korean soy sauce.
Korean soy sauce is very differentand it's actually made in a
different way from Chinese soy sauce.
(11:04):
Yes,
Bruce (11:05):
soybeans are boiled and inoculated with wild molds spores and
bacteria pressed into blocks usingrice straw to hold it all together.
These blocks are submerged into a brine.
It's really complicated.
After a few months, they strain thesolids out from the fermented liquid,
(11:26):
and I find because of that rice straw inthere, there is a strong vegetal flavor
that you don't Find in other soy sauces,
Mark (11:35):
right?
And I think that what you shouldknow here about Korean soy sauce
is there are a lot of knockoffsthat short circuit this process.
And if you go to an Asian market, justknow that if you're looking for Korean soy
sauces, Money will tell you everything.
They're more expensive because ofcourse, it's very laborious to make it.
(11:56):
The cheaper varietals of Korean soysauce will be short circuited in
some way, or they'll be trying tomimic this flavor again, just like
with the Chinese style soy sauce.
There are two basic varieties.
There are actually several, butthere are two basic varieties and
one is made with Out wheat, right?
Bruce (12:16):
And it's a lighter soy sauce.
It's actually used and sometimescalled soup soy sauce, made for
using as a flavoring for broths.
It's actually designed for thatand it's called soup soy sauce.
And without wheat it's usuallygluten free, but check the package.
And then they have one with wheat,which is a much sweeter profile.
(12:37):
Not a sweet soy, there's no sugar added,but But it does have a sweeter flavor.
That's the one usually used as adipping sauce and for marinades.
And my favorite brand, Sempio.
S E M P I O.
Right.
It's a really nice Korean soy sauce.
Mark (12:51):
I should just say, in terms of this without wheat, the so called soup
soy sauce, which you can find online andlook around for Korean soup soy sauce.
This is a fine additionto pork and beef stews.
You don't want to put a lotinto your pork and beef.
I mean, even with carrots and,and, uh, onions and celery.
I mean, just to.
Normal North American beef stew, butif you add a tablespoon of this to it,
(13:14):
it's going to really knock up the savoryflavors way up in the stratosphere.
And it's also going to give abeautiful color to the stew.
So you might want to check that outas just a common pantry ingredient.
They're the two styles of Chinesesoy sauce and the two styles of
traditional Korean soy sauce.
So now we're going to moveon to Japanese soy sauce.
(13:35):
And here's where it gets, as youcan imagine, much more complicated.
Bruce (13:39):
When it comes to Japanese style soy sauces, there are more options.
I'm not surprised.
It's more complicated.
I find Japanese menus to bea little more complicated.
I find understanding the nuances.
of Japanese cuisine, personally,to be a little more complicated.
And so let's start with basic Japaneseshoyu sauce, S H O Y U, which is how
(14:00):
you say soy sauce in Japanese, is shoyu.
I'm sure every Japanese personjust was offended, but do go on.
Forgive me.
Sometimes this is calledJapanese dark soy sauce.
This is the standard soy sauce youmight expect at a sushi restaurant.
This is
Mark (14:14):
Mark's soy sauce.
Think
Bruce (14:16):
Kikkoman.
Mark (14:16):
Yeah, this is Mark's soy sauce.
Because I'm a Kikkoman boy, andit is Basically Japanese soya.
It is sometimes as Bruce hasreferred to as dark soy sauce.
It's just the standard I grew up with.
And I know that the other, let'ssay the Korean soup soy sauce is
a far more sophisticated than whatI'm choosing, but I can't help it.
I grew up with this.
(14:37):
And so it's just in my genes.
Bruce (14:39):
Quite honestly, I find the reduced sodium Kikkoman just
fine for everyday use at home.
When I want something a little morecomplex and a little more highly flavored
and not just salty, I go for somethingcalled Takasan's Kishibori Shoyu.
You know, what can I say?
They make a really fine,basic Japanese shoyu sauce.
Mark (15:02):
To confuse things, since this is dark soy sauce or shoyu from Japan,
there is a light Japanese soy sauce,but believe it or not, it's saltier.
I know, light.
Ugh, and part of the reason hereit's called light Unlike in the
Chinese categories, is it isoften has added ingredients to
Bruce (15:22):
it.
Vinegar, corn syrup, even mirin.
So sometimes it could be a little bitsour or a little bit sweet, and it makes
it good for lighter colored dishes,like some kind of stews or soups.
And these are ingredient soy sauces,not Condiment soy sauce, right?
That's really important.
It's an important distinction.
(15:44):
I'll go for a basic Japanese dark soysauce as a condiment for dipping my sushi.
I will go for a light Japanese soy saucewhen I'm using it as an ingredient.
And a brand I like is Yamasa.
Uh, that's a really niceeveryday brand for doing that.
Mark (16:01):
Right, and in like manner, and this is a dipping or an ingredient, is tamari.
And tamari is a subsetof Japanese soy sauces.
It's a byproduct, actually,of miso, like miso soup?
Miso production.
And it has a very high soybean contentto it, and it has a very strong
flavor, and it's usually a littlemore viscous than traditional Japanese
(16:25):
shoyu, the traditional Japanesedark soy sauce, even like Kikkoman.
Bruce (16:30):
Yeah, and I like the fact that it's a little more complex.
I sometimes get, you know, notes ofcaramel when I use it, um, and I use it
as a finishing sauce, I use it as a glaze.
Yeah.
Most tamaris have no wheat andthey are gluten free, so check the
label if that's important to you.
Sanjay is a very popular and common brand.
(16:51):
It's, like, it's available in Whole Foods.
I've even seen it at ourlocal stop and shop, so it is
something you can get everywhere.
And
Mark (16:58):
I should tell you that if you make dishes with soy sauce in them.
And we, as we do, um, and you havefriends who are gluten intolerant or
can't have gluten for various reasons.
We always have tamari in the housebecause it is an excellent substitute
across the board, even in Chinese dishesand Thai dishes and Korean dishes.
(17:18):
And I know it's not supposed to be.
It's supposed to be there.
But when you do have friends whocan't eat gluten, it's a good
substitute for any of the above.
Tamari is just a good thing to havein your pantry of anything that
we're saying here of soy sauces.
I would tell you if you just want tostart somewhere, go buy a bottle of
tamari and it's a great place to startthis whole journey through soy sauces.
(17:40):
But there's one other kind ofspecialty weird soy sauce in Japan.
Bruce (17:43):
Yeah.
Japanese white soy sauce andthey call it a white soy sauce.
It's not.
Clear and it's not white like milk,but it is almost tan, like a very
pale whiskey where it can be pink.
There's one we love.
The company name is Haku, H A K U.
And we have gotten their soy sauces thatare aged in bourbon barrels, and we've
(18:06):
gotten their 20 year aged soy sauces,but they make pink tinged soy sauce.
Darkish, liquid, white soy sauce.
It's almost like vermouth.
It's infused with cherry blossoms.
And because
Mark (18:19):
it's infused with cherry blossoms, what's it
Bruce (18:20):
called?
Sakura.
Sakura shoyu.
There
Mark (18:23):
you
Bruce (18:24):
go.
White soy sauce is becomingalmost a cult thing in Japan.
And artisanal makers are comingup with really unusually infused
So if you are into new things and findingnew ingredients, just search around
for some really fun white soy sauce.
(18:44):
We didn't
Mark (18:44):
have this beforehand, but I just have to say, in scrolling around on
TikTok the other day, I saw, uh, Barmaster, you know, a guy behind the bar.
What do you call him?
Bartender.
Thank you.
I couldn't do the work.
Bar master?
Well, I couldn't do the work.
What kind of bar are you at?
This is like, super hip.
And he was putting two, maybe two dropsof white soy sauce in his Manhattan's.
(19:06):
Interesting.
Because he wanted this salty edge to them.
And you know, I mean, it was just a bar.
It's like a little addedat the end bang ingredient.
And it, what it happenedto be this white soy sauce.
Now it wasn't the one infusedwith cherry blossoms, the sakura
shoyu, which Bruce just mentioned,but still it was white soy sauce.
And I think he was doing thatbecause it is a bit of a lighter
flavor with that saltiness.
(19:27):
It's not like a hit, uh, likelet's see the Chinese dark soy.
Oh
Bruce (19:32):
yeah.
That would be a major hitof soy and a hit of color.
And this is going to be delicate.
It's really, you know, Japanese cuisinetouts itself as being very delicate
and I think something like a whitesoy sauce really goes along with that
idea that it's a delicate cuisine.
Mark (19:50):
And we should mention in here before we come to the end that there
are all kinds of varieties of soysauce beyond anything we've mentioned.
There are sweet soys, uh, forexample, in Indonesia, the
famed Indonesian Dutch dish.
It's hard to know where this started withthe Dutch or with the Indonesians, but
this, uh, ketchup money start as peoplein, uh, North America call it ketchup.
(20:12):
Manis.
Um, that's a very common,thick, viscous, sweet.
So, you
Bruce (20:20):
know, it is so delicious.
That you can get ketchupmanna and put it on ice cream.
Mark (20:25):
Oh, no.
Oh yeah.
No.
Yeah.
A little vanilla ice cream and a few
Bruce (20:29):
drops of ketchup,
Mark (20:30):
Maise.
No, no.
I never do.
You can't make me do that.
No.
Can't make you do anything.
But no, and especially put anyketchup monis on, uh, ice cream.
That's disgusting.
But it is really good.
It is really good.
I have to tell you on a burger.
It is really good on a hot dog.
It's really good witha really hot condiment.
So, like, ketchup manis and, uh,let's say kimchi on a hot dog.
(20:56):
It's really fun.
It's good with fried chicken.
It's good as a dip for fried chicken.
Especially when thinnedout with rice vinegar.
Ketchup manis is the best.
It's just a completely, um,other category on its own.
And uh, you might want to try it out.
It is just foundational toIndonesian cooking at this point.
Although again, maybe a Dutchcondiment, not an Indonesian condiment.
(21:18):
There's all kinds of researchI've done on this, believe it
or not, for upcoming books.
So I'm, I'm well up on my problems ofkacip, uh, let me just say the new book.
It does have a recipe forketchup manis in it, so.
Yeah, it does.
Um, but again, most peoplepronounce it ketchup manis.
By the way, just if you want toknow, it's spelled K E C A P.
I know, cha, but it's just a C.
(21:40):
K E C A P, like ke cap, manis, M A N I S.
Kecap manis, lovely.
Right, kecap manis.
Um, but, uh, it, it, it, it, Itis a very foundational product
now for Indonesian cooking.
And it's a nice thingto have in your pantry.
Again, a second thing that would begreat to try for your pantry after
tamari would be kecap manis andkeep it around for all kinds of egg
(22:04):
roll dips, hot dogs, hamburgers,all the things we talked about.
I can imagine kecap manison a turkey club sandwich.
Um, there's just a lot of uses for it.
Bruce (22:13):
Oh, mix it with cocktail sauce as a dip for shrimp.
Yeah,
Mark (22:16):
all these things are great.
All right, that's our kind oftour of basic forms of soy sauce.
We have missed way morethan we've included.
That's like saying all theislands in the Pacific are Hawaii.
So we missed a billion things.
Which I've never been to.
Um, okay.
Uh, I have, so
Bruce (22:36):
good for me.
So if someone from the Hawaiiantourist board is listening,
you want to send us there.
I would love to, like.
Mark (22:42):
No, in fact, that leads me to my next point that we
are an unsupported podcast.
And so we wouldn't.
Uh, really appreciate a rating, ifyou could give us a rating on whatever
platform you're listening to us on,Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and if you could
take the time to just write a review,like Nice Podcast, where it says write
a review, that would be spectacular.
Thank you for doing that.
Um, we'd like to keepour podcast unsupported.
(23:05):
So that helps us get up in the analytics.
All right.
Our final bit as always, what'smaking us happy in food this week?
Bruce (23:15):
An Indonesian cookbook called sambal on coconut.
And I just got my hands on, it's not a newbook and you're not having the author on.
It is a wonderful book.
And Mark and I Love Asian food, but wehave not had a whole lot of Indonesian
food except when we've been on cruiseships There's a lot of Indonesian crew
on board and we've gotten to eat somefood there Yeah But I want to start
(23:38):
making more of it and the recipesin this sambal and coconut cookbook.
Look how Amazing.
Like the beef rendang and thecrispy pork belly and all the
Mark (23:48):
millions of sambal.
Sambal is a, is anIndonesian paste or sauce.
There's all kinds of sambals out there.
And, uh, there's some in there that weremade with, um, uh, caramelized shallots.
And then you make this sambaland then later use it as the
base of a sauce for jammy.
Poached.
(24:08):
Yeah, that's the dish
Bruce (24:09):
Mark wants you to make.
It's like poached jammy, jammy yolkpoached eggs in a sambal chili sauce.
Mark (24:17):
That sounds like heaven.
Um, well, that can't be makingyou happy in food this week.
The anticipation of it has tobe happy in food this week.
I think what's made me happy in foodthis week is something I made last night.
And that you can findon our TikTok channel.
And you can find on Instagramreels under my name, Mark
Scarborough, or in the Facebook.
(24:37):
Group cooking with Bruce and Mark, andthat is this, uh, sweet chili sauce.
Um, it's sometimes called Thai chilisauce, but it's not really Thai.
Mm-Hmm.
chili sauce.
No, it's, it's a sweetConnecticut chili sauce.
Right?
It's a sweet red chili sauce,and I, I kind of developed it.
Believe it or not, the writeractually developed a recipe and
I developed this recipe for it.
It's really an interesting and easyrecipe for this common condiment.
(24:58):
You've probably had it as like a dipfor egg rolls and that kind of thing.
A sweet chili sauce.
Mine is.
Far less sweet than the standardbottled stuff and makes what?
About three cups, three cups of
Bruce (25:11):
corn syrup, which is really nice corn syrup in it,
Mark (25:15):
but it's hot.
It includes sambal.
There you go.
That chili paste, which you can buysome, a lot, lots of red pepper flakes.
It does have sugar, but not nearlyso much as the standard rice
Bruce (25:26):
vinegar and garlic.
And it is a lot, a lot, a lot,a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot,
a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot,
Mark (25:31):
of ginger.
So delicious.
I chopped ginger and garlic until I wasdead last night, and then made this,
and, uh, you can keep it in the fridgefor, the USDA is going to tell you three
weeks, I'm going to tell you we keepours for a couple months in the fridge.
Well, it better
Bruce (25:45):
be three weeks, because then it's my birthday and we're having
it with fried chicken dinner.
Mark (25:48):
We are.
I made it for the fried chicken dinner I'mmaking for Bruce's birthday in November.
Okay, so that's the podcastThanks for joining us.
Thanks for being a part of this journey.
We appreciate your time with us.
We hope we've told you something aboutsoy sauce and helped you understand
that this is a category far beyond justthe common stuff that we find even in
some Asian markets, but a vast globalcategory of ingredients and condiments
(26:14):
and dips and sauces at this point.
Bruce (26:16):
Every week we tell you what's making us happy in food here
in cooking with Bruce and Mark,please go to our Facebook page.
Facebook group also called Cookingwith Bruce and Mark, and you
will see me posting every week.
What's making you happy in food?
Tell us.
We want to know what is makingyou happy in food every week
on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast
Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Mark (00:04):
And I'm Mark Scarborough.
And together with Bruce, we have writtenover three dozen cookbooks, are currently
working in editorial with our latest,which will be out in the summer of 2025.
But we're not going totalk about any of that.
Long food career, I don't know, tensof thousands of original recipes
developed and published for variousThings all the way from soy protein
(00:27):
isolates to the potato board.
Bruce (00:32):
Yeah.
So lay the soy company,
Mark (00:34):
the soy protein isolate, all that stuff.
Well, we've done a lot in the 25years of our career, but this is
our podcast about that very passion.
We've got a one minute.
cooking tip as always, whichalways goes over one minute.
We've got a whole segmentmaybe about soy sauce.
You don't know how much I'mgoing to disagree with you.
We got a whole segment about soy sauceand, um, more than you may want to know.
(00:58):
And in fact, soy sauce is not onething, but an entire category of things.
And we'll tell you what's makingus happy in food this week.
So let's get started.
Bruce (01:11):
Our one minute cooking tip.
Want to boil water faster?
Cover the pot.
See under one minute.
Mark (01:18):
Okay, you're right under one minute.
If you don't know this, I don't even know.
If you don't have a lid for a pot, thenput a baking sheet over it and that now
it can't be a baking sheet with a nonsticksurface, but put a baking sheet over it.
Over it.
Bruce (01:33):
Or even a piece of foil.
You want to keep the heat in there, right?
Because if it's evaporating and you'regetting a facial, then no, that, that
heat is going away rather than staying in
Mark (01:44):
there.
All right, let's, let's try to becool and keep this to a minute.
Okay, and get out of this real fast.
Okay, before we get to the next.
Before we get to the nextsegment of this podcast, let's
say that we have a newsletter.
Uh, the last one just went out, andit was all about the various kinds of
tree syrups we talked about on thispodcast, and where to order birch
syrup and, oh, you know, all the bits.
(02:04):
Birch syrup, and what else was in there?
Hickory syrup, and black walnutsyrup, and maple syrup, peach
syrup, our favorite kind of syrups.
Um, you want to check allthat out in our newsletter.
You can do that by going to ourwebsite, cookingwithbruceatmark.
com, or just bruceatmark.
com.
You can sign up.
On the landing page, the firstpage, the splash pages, they used
to call it, of a website, and downthere you'll see a link to sign up.
(02:27):
Again, I can't see your sign up,nor can I capture your email, nor
can, there can't be three nors,but okay, nor can the provider.
I'm sure you may have Thor.
What is Thor?
Neither, nor, and Thor?
Neither, nor, and Thor.
And then what?
Thor?
Thor?
I don't know.
Anyway, um, okay, we're getting off that.
(02:49):
Let's talk about soy sauce, becausesoy sauce isn't one thing, but
an entire category of things.
Bruce (02:57):
We've talked about using soy sauce instead of salt as a
one minute cooking tip before.
Yeah.
But soy sauce is more than just a genericingredient and it is more than just a
salty thing and there's tons of differentkinds of soy sauce made all over the
world and they are as different fromeach other as olive oils are as wine is.
(03:21):
It's crazy.
Treat soy sauce the way youwould treat like good olive oil.
Keep it in a dark place.
It will oxidize.
It will go off.
It doesn't last forever.
Mark (03:32):
So talk about the three basic kinds of soy sauce,
Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.
And I realized in saying this, Ihave hacked off all of Indonesia.
I've hacked off Southeast Asiaas an entire regional group.
I know there are lots of places makingsoy sauce, and there are even some fine
makers of soy sauce in North America rightnow, in the United States and Canada.
(03:54):
So, yes, this is true that thereare many places to make soy sauce,
but we want to talk about this.
Three types, Chinese, Korean, andJapanese, because they actually
represent styles of soy sauce.
This is like having a conversationabout what kind of apples do you like.
There are lots of different stylesof soy sauce, but let's just say
(04:15):
that Chinese soy sauce comes intwo basic styles, light and dark.
But, it does have a higher ratioof soybeans to wheat, so why don't
you talk about that for a second.
Well, I
Bruce (04:25):
want to talk about your apple metaphor for a second, because food
professionals and food writers andfood people on websites will argue with
you that certain apples must be usedfor certain kinds of desserts, like
this should only be a pie apple andthis should only be a baking apple.
Well, they're going to tell you thesame kind of things as soy sauces.
So depending upon the qualitiesof it, it will give it use.
Mark (04:49):
So I'm going to stop.
I just, I'm sorry.
We're going to have amarital argument here.
There are right apples for apple pie.
You do not use a golden,delicious apple in an apple pie.
A golden, delicious apple isgoing to dissolve in a pie.
You can't use it.
I mean, can you use it?
Yes, you can use it.
You're going to end upwith runny apple pie.
So I think that you're trying to begenerous here, but I think I think
(05:11):
that there are actually, uh, ways thatyou need to use proper ingredients.
We are cooking for professionals, andI think some of these soy sauces are
better suited for some applicationsthan others, but that doesn't mean you
have to go crazy, and as we're going totalk about later, as you will discover
in this episode, I, the writer, yes,Mark, like the cheap ass soy sauce.
Bruce (05:33):
He likes the kind of getting a little puffy.
Packets at like the airport
Mark (05:37):
when you get, God, don't judge me, but we'll get to that.
Okay, so let's, let's go back.
Okay.
Chinese style.
Bruce (05:44):
Okay, so Chinese style, and Mark said most Chinese style soy sauces
are made fermented and brewed witha higher ratio of soybeans to wheat.
Yes, wheat is a key ingredient in making.
Most soy sauces and
Mark (05:59):
so if you have a gluten intolerance or of course, I think
like you probably already know thisBut if you have a gluten intolerance,
you should know that soy sauce isnot a product You should be familiar
Bruce (06:08):
and what that gives you in Chinese style soy sauces is a very
strong soy flavor not necessarily highersaltiness, but really strong soy flavor.
My opinion about saltiness and soy sauce.
And yes, some styles of Japanese soysauce or Korean soy sauce tend to be
saltier because of the way they're made.
(06:29):
But in general, across all threeof these styles, Mark mentioned,
personally, I think salt is usedextra hard to cover up bad quality.
Oh, yes.
So the saltier, saltier soysauces tend not to be the best.
The best quality is sometimes if
Mark (06:48):
it has and if not if when when as it has salty notes that always
does, but those should be bright.
If it tastes like seawater tasteslike the ocean, it Bruce is right.
It's covering up something.
It's covering up aninferior product underneath.
It should not that, you know, okay, sonow I'm telling too much about myself.
(07:10):
But when I was a kid and we makehomemade ice cream, I could have
cared less about the ice cream.
I just.
I ate the rock salt on theice in the ice cream maker.
That's the only part I likedis the rock salt that was
adhering to the ice in the maker.
So, okay, I would eat that.
And, um, you know, when you eatthat, a little bit of salt on ice,
(07:31):
it has this really bright flavor.
But you know if you eatthat, too much salt.
Like you've over salted his stew.
It can get murky tasting.
That's the thing with soy sauce.
It can't taste murky or it shouldn't.
He says he who likes the cheapeststuff, but okay, go ahead.
But
Bruce (07:46):
you also said there were two basic styles of Chinese so it's just,
there is what is called light soy sauce.
and dark soy sauce.
Now, when you just look at thebottles, you may actually not be able
to see a difference in the color.
Sometimes the dark is a little bitdarker, but usually they're very similar.
What it is is flavor and texture.
(08:07):
Light soy sauce is what you wouldconsider to be the standard soy sauce.
If you were going to go outfor Chinese food, if there was
Mark (08:13):
say light Chinese style
Bruce (08:15):
soy sauce, if you went up for Chinese food and there was
soy sauce on the table, that'sprobably the light soy sauce.
Soy sauce
Mark (08:21):
it's gentler and it almost has a creaminess to it It's a it's
an interesting and very gentle andmoderate flavor and generally it's
not too dark although Bruce is rightlight and dark refers to texture and
in and kind of viscosity and all thatkind of stuff and flavor much less than
color, but In general, light soy sauceis more moderately brown in its color.
Bruce (08:47):
My everyday go to light soy sauce is Pearl River Bridge.
It's very common in Asianmarkets and in Chinese markets.
And I buy like the half gallon tubs of it.
But I do like to keep some higherend soy sauce in the house.
that I like to drizzle like on rice.
Pearl River Bridge is like what Icook with, but if I want something
(09:09):
to drizzle on a piece of fishor rice, I like Wanjia Shan.
And I'm sure that J A is not pronouncedJah, but what are you going to do?
Wanjia Shan, and it saysaged and it's from Taiwan.
It has a gentle beany flavor.
It smells like soy.
It's salty, but it's bright.
And as Mark said, It hasalmost a creamy edge to it.
(09:31):
It's really good.
Mark (09:32):
Right.
And that is in contrast to the darksoy sauce and is much more assertive.
It has a thicker quality to it.
It's, uh, dark soy sauceis great in braises.
Not so great, in my opinion,in stir fries, but better in
Chinese braises, in Asian braises.
Really deep, dark, umami, savory.
(09:54):
savory flavor to it.
You just have to be careful with darksoy sauce because you're not getting
the mushroom soy sauce in Chinese,uh, uh, uh uh, groceries stores.
And Asian groceries, mushroom soy,is of course flavored of mushrooms.
And we're not talking about that.
We're talking just about dark soy
Bruce (10:11):
sauce.
And dark soy sauce often Has a caramelcoloring added to it to make it darker,
and it is used actually as a coloringagent when you're cooking Chinese dishes.
So sometimes a recipe will call for,you know, a tablespoon of light soy
sauce and a half a teaspoon of dark.
And that half a teaspoonwill make that dark.
(10:32):
dish golden and darker brown.
And it's almost like what yourmother used to do with kitchen
bouquet, but you should tell her
Mark (10:39):
shit.
Thanks for insulting 1 billion Chinese.
Bruce (10:42):
Okay, go ahead and sing dark
Mark (10:43):
soy sauce.
Okay.
So that's the Chinese soy sauce and thelight and the dark and Bruce's favorite
Taiwanese brand, the one Josh on.
Aged light soy sauce versus PearlRiver Bridge light and dark soy sauce.
Let's move on to Korean soy sauce.
Korean soy sauce is very differentand it's actually made in a
different way from Chinese soy sauce.
(11:04):
Yes,
Bruce (11:05):
soybeans are boiled and inoculated with wild molds spores and
bacteria pressed into blocks usingrice straw to hold it all together.
These blocks are submerged into a brine.
It's really complicated.
After a few months, they strain thesolids out from the fermented liquid,
(11:26):
and I find because of that rice straw inthere, there is a strong vegetal flavor
that you don't Find in other soy sauces,
Mark (11:35):
right?
And I think that what you shouldknow here about Korean soy sauce
is there are a lot of knockoffsthat short circuit this process.
And if you go to an Asian market, justknow that if you're looking for Korean soy
sauces, Money will tell you everything.
They're more expensive because ofcourse, it's very laborious to make it.
(11:56):
The cheaper varietals of Korean soysauce will be short circuited in
some way, or they'll be trying tomimic this flavor again, just like
with the Chinese style soy sauce.
There are two basic varieties.
There are actually several, butthere are two basic varieties and
one is made with Out wheat, right?
Bruce (12:16):
And it's a lighter soy sauce.
It's actually used and sometimescalled soup soy sauce, made for
using as a flavoring for broths.
It's actually designed for thatand it's called soup soy sauce.
And without wheat it's usuallygluten free, but check the package.
And then they have one with wheat,which is a much sweeter profile.
(12:37):
Not a sweet soy, there's no sugar added,but But it does have a sweeter flavor.
That's the one usually used as adipping sauce and for marinades.
And my favorite brand, Sempio.
S E M P I O.
Right.
It's a really nice Korean soy sauce.
Mark (12:51):
I should just say, in terms of this without wheat, the so called soup
soy sauce, which you can find online andlook around for Korean soup soy sauce.
This is a fine additionto pork and beef stews.
You don't want to put a lotinto your pork and beef.
I mean, even with carrots and,and, uh, onions and celery.
I mean, just to.
Normal North American beef stew, butif you add a tablespoon of this to it,
(13:14):
it's going to really knock up the savoryflavors way up in the stratosphere.
And it's also going to give abeautiful color to the stew.
So you might want to check that outas just a common pantry ingredient.
They're the two styles of Chinesesoy sauce and the two styles of
traditional Korean soy sauce.
So now we're going to moveon to Japanese soy sauce.
(13:35):
And here's where it gets, as youcan imagine, much more complicated.
Bruce (13:39):
When it comes to Japanese style soy sauces, there are more options.
I'm not surprised.
It's more complicated.
I find Japanese menus to bea little more complicated.
I find understanding the nuances.
of Japanese cuisine, personally,to be a little more complicated.
And so let's start with basic Japaneseshoyu sauce, S H O Y U, which is how
(14:00):
you say soy sauce in Japanese, is shoyu.
I'm sure every Japanese personjust was offended, but do go on.
Forgive me.
Sometimes this is calledJapanese dark soy sauce.
This is the standard soy sauce youmight expect at a sushi restaurant.
This is
Mark (14:14):
Mark's soy sauce.
Think
Bruce (14:16):
Kikkoman.
Mark (14:16):
Yeah, this is Mark's soy sauce.
Because I'm a Kikkoman boy, andit is Basically Japanese soya.
It is sometimes as Bruce hasreferred to as dark soy sauce.
It's just the standard I grew up with.
And I know that the other, let'ssay the Korean soup soy sauce is
a far more sophisticated than whatI'm choosing, but I can't help it.
I grew up with this.
(14:37):
And so it's just in my genes.
Bruce (14:39):
Quite honestly, I find the reduced sodium Kikkoman just
fine for everyday use at home.
When I want something a little morecomplex and a little more highly flavored
and not just salty, I go for somethingcalled Takasan's Kishibori Shoyu.
You know, what can I say?
They make a really fine,basic Japanese shoyu sauce.
Mark (15:02):
To confuse things, since this is dark soy sauce or shoyu from Japan,
there is a light Japanese soy sauce,but believe it or not, it's saltier.
I know, light.
Ugh, and part of the reason hereit's called light Unlike in the
Chinese categories, is it isoften has added ingredients to
Bruce (15:22):
it.
Vinegar, corn syrup, even mirin.
So sometimes it could be a little bitsour or a little bit sweet, and it makes
it good for lighter colored dishes,like some kind of stews or soups.
And these are ingredient soy sauces,not Condiment soy sauce, right?
That's really important.
It's an important distinction.
(15:44):
I'll go for a basic Japanese dark soysauce as a condiment for dipping my sushi.
I will go for a light Japanese soy saucewhen I'm using it as an ingredient.
And a brand I like is Yamasa.
Uh, that's a really niceeveryday brand for doing that.
Mark (16:01):
Right, and in like manner, and this is a dipping or an ingredient, is tamari.
And tamari is a subsetof Japanese soy sauces.
It's a byproduct, actually,of miso, like miso soup?
Miso production.
And it has a very high soybean contentto it, and it has a very strong
flavor, and it's usually a littlemore viscous than traditional Japanese
(16:25):
shoyu, the traditional Japanesedark soy sauce, even like Kikkoman.
Bruce (16:30):
Yeah, and I like the fact that it's a little more complex.
I sometimes get, you know, notes ofcaramel when I use it, um, and I use it
as a finishing sauce, I use it as a glaze.
Yeah.
Most tamaris have no wheat andthey are gluten free, so check the
label if that's important to you.
Sanjay is a very popular and common brand.
(16:51):
It's, like, it's available in Whole Foods.
I've even seen it at ourlocal stop and shop, so it is
something you can get everywhere.
And
Mark (16:58):
I should tell you that if you make dishes with soy sauce in them.
And we, as we do, um, and you havefriends who are gluten intolerant or
can't have gluten for various reasons.
We always have tamari in the housebecause it is an excellent substitute
across the board, even in Chinese dishesand Thai dishes and Korean dishes.
(17:18):
And I know it's not supposed to be.
It's supposed to be there.
But when you do have friends whocan't eat gluten, it's a good
substitute for any of the above.
Tamari is just a good thing to havein your pantry of anything that
we're saying here of soy sauces.
I would tell you if you just want tostart somewhere, go buy a bottle of
tamari and it's a great place to startthis whole journey through soy sauces.
(17:40):
But there's one other kind ofspecialty weird soy sauce in Japan.
Bruce (17:43):
Yeah.
Japanese white soy sauce andthey call it a white soy sauce.
It's not.
Clear and it's not white like milk,but it is almost tan, like a very
pale whiskey where it can be pink.
There's one we love.
The company name is Haku, H A K U.
And we have gotten their soy sauces thatare aged in bourbon barrels, and we've
(18:06):
gotten their 20 year aged soy sauces,but they make pink tinged soy sauce.
Darkish, liquid, white soy sauce.
It's almost like vermouth.
It's infused with cherry blossoms.
And because
Mark (18:19):
it's infused with cherry blossoms, what's it
Bruce (18:20):
called?
Sakura.
Sakura shoyu.
There
Mark (18:23):
you
Bruce (18:24):
go.
White soy sauce is becomingalmost a cult thing in Japan.
And artisanal makers are comingup with really unusually infused
So if you are into new things and findingnew ingredients, just search around
for some really fun white soy sauce.
(18:44):
We didn't
Mark (18:44):
have this beforehand, but I just have to say, in scrolling around on
TikTok the other day, I saw, uh, Barmaster, you know, a guy behind the bar.
What do you call him?
Bartender.
Thank you.
I couldn't do the work.
Bar master?
Well, I couldn't do the work.
What kind of bar are you at?
This is like, super hip.
And he was putting two, maybe two dropsof white soy sauce in his Manhattan's.
(19:06):
Interesting.
Because he wanted this salty edge to them.
And you know, I mean, it was just a bar.
It's like a little addedat the end bang ingredient.
And it, what it happenedto be this white soy sauce.
Now it wasn't the one infusedwith cherry blossoms, the sakura
shoyu, which Bruce just mentioned,but still it was white soy sauce.
And I think he was doing thatbecause it is a bit of a lighter
flavor with that saltiness.
(19:27):
It's not like a hit, uh, likelet's see the Chinese dark soy.
Oh
Bruce (19:32):
yeah.
That would be a major hitof soy and a hit of color.
And this is going to be delicate.
It's really, you know, Japanese cuisinetouts itself as being very delicate
and I think something like a whitesoy sauce really goes along with that
idea that it's a delicate cuisine.
Mark (19:50):
And we should mention in here before we come to the end that there
are all kinds of varieties of soysauce beyond anything we've mentioned.
There are sweet soys, uh, forexample, in Indonesia, the
famed Indonesian Dutch dish.
It's hard to know where this started withthe Dutch or with the Indonesians, but
this, uh, ketchup money start as peoplein, uh, North America call it ketchup.
(20:12):
Manis.
Um, that's a very common,thick, viscous, sweet.
So, you
Bruce (20:20):
know, it is so delicious.
That you can get ketchupmanna and put it on ice cream.
Mark (20:25):
Oh, no.
Oh yeah.
No.
Yeah.
A little vanilla ice cream and a few
Bruce (20:29):
drops of ketchup,
Mark (20:30):
Maise.
No, no.
I never do.
You can't make me do that.
No.
Can't make you do anything.
But no, and especially put anyketchup monis on, uh, ice cream.
That's disgusting.
But it is really good.
It is really good.
I have to tell you on a burger.
It is really good on a hot dog.
It's really good witha really hot condiment.
So, like, ketchup manis and, uh,let's say kimchi on a hot dog.
(20:56):
It's really fun.
It's good with fried chicken.
It's good as a dip for fried chicken.
Especially when thinnedout with rice vinegar.
Ketchup manis is the best.
It's just a completely, um,other category on its own.
And uh, you might want to try it out.
It is just foundational toIndonesian cooking at this point.
Although again, maybe a Dutchcondiment, not an Indonesian condiment.
(21:18):
There's all kinds of researchI've done on this, believe it
or not, for upcoming books.
So I'm, I'm well up on my problems ofkacip, uh, let me just say the new book.
It does have a recipe forketchup manis in it, so.
Yeah, it does.
Um, but again, most peoplepronounce it ketchup manis.
By the way, just if you want toknow, it's spelled K E C A P.
I know, cha, but it's just a C.
(21:40):
K E C A P, like ke cap, manis, M A N I S.
Kecap manis, lovely.
Right, kecap manis.
Um, but, uh, it, it, it, it, Itis a very foundational product
now for Indonesian cooking.
And it's a nice thingto have in your pantry.
Again, a second thing that would begreat to try for your pantry after
tamari would be kecap manis andkeep it around for all kinds of egg
(22:04):
roll dips, hot dogs, hamburgers,all the things we talked about.
I can imagine kecap manison a turkey club sandwich.
Um, there's just a lot of uses for it.
Bruce (22:13):
Oh, mix it with cocktail sauce as a dip for shrimp.
Yeah,
Mark (22:16):
all these things are great.
All right, that's our kind oftour of basic forms of soy sauce.
We have missed way morethan we've included.
That's like saying all theislands in the Pacific are Hawaii.
So we missed a billion things.
Which I've never been to.
Um, okay.
Uh, I have, so
Bruce (22:36):
good for me.
So if someone from the Hawaiiantourist board is listening,
you want to send us there.
I would love to, like.
Mark (22:42):
No, in fact, that leads me to my next point that we
are an unsupported podcast.
And so we wouldn't.
Uh, really appreciate a rating, ifyou could give us a rating on whatever
platform you're listening to us on,Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and if you could
take the time to just write a review,like Nice Podcast, where it says write
a review, that would be spectacular.
Thank you for doing that.
Um, we'd like to keepour podcast unsupported.
(23:05):
So that helps us get up in the analytics.
All right.
Our final bit as always, what'smaking us happy in food this week?
Bruce (23:15):
An Indonesian cookbook called sambal on coconut.
And I just got my hands on, it's not a newbook and you're not having the author on.
It is a wonderful book.
And Mark and I Love Asian food, but wehave not had a whole lot of Indonesian
food except when we've been on cruiseships There's a lot of Indonesian crew
on board and we've gotten to eat somefood there Yeah But I want to start
(23:38):
making more of it and the recipesin this sambal and coconut cookbook.
Look how Amazing.
Like the beef rendang and thecrispy pork belly and all the
Mark (23:48):
millions of sambal.
Sambal is a, is anIndonesian paste or sauce.
There's all kinds of sambals out there.
And, uh, there's some in there that weremade with, um, uh, caramelized shallots.
And then you make this sambaland then later use it as the
base of a sauce for jammy.
Poached.
(24:08):
Yeah, that's the dish
Bruce (24:09):
Mark wants you to make.
It's like poached jammy, jammy yolkpoached eggs in a sambal chili sauce.
Mark (24:17):
That sounds like heaven.
Um, well, that can't be makingyou happy in food this week.
The anticipation of it has tobe happy in food this week.
I think what's made me happy in foodthis week is something I made last night.
And that you can findon our TikTok channel.
And you can find on Instagramreels under my name, Mark
Scarborough, or in the Facebook.
(24:37):
Group cooking with Bruce and Mark, andthat is this, uh, sweet chili sauce.
Um, it's sometimes called Thai chilisauce, but it's not really Thai.
Mm-Hmm.
chili sauce.
No, it's, it's a sweetConnecticut chili sauce.
Right?
It's a sweet red chili sauce,and I, I kind of developed it.
Believe it or not, the writeractually developed a recipe and
I developed this recipe for it.
It's really an interesting and easyrecipe for this common condiment.
(24:58):
You've probably had it as like a dipfor egg rolls and that kind of thing.
A sweet chili sauce.
Mine is.
Far less sweet than the standardbottled stuff and makes what?
About three cups, three cups of
Bruce (25:11):
corn syrup, which is really nice corn syrup in it,
Mark (25:15):
but it's hot.
It includes sambal.
There you go.
That chili paste, which you can buysome, a lot, lots of red pepper flakes.
It does have sugar, but not nearlyso much as the standard rice
Bruce (25:26):
vinegar and garlic.
And it is a lot, a lot, a lot,a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot,
a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot,
Mark (25:31):
of ginger.
So delicious.
I chopped ginger and garlic until I wasdead last night, and then made this,
and, uh, you can keep it in the fridgefor, the USDA is going to tell you three
weeks, I'm going to tell you we keepours for a couple months in the fridge.
Well, it better
Bruce (25:45):
be three weeks, because then it's my birthday and we're having
it with fried chicken dinner.
Mark (25:48):
We are.
I made it for the fried chicken dinner I'mmaking for Bruce's birthday in November.
Okay, so that's the podcastThanks for joining us.
Thanks for being a part of this journey.
We appreciate your time with us.
We hope we've told you something aboutsoy sauce and helped you understand
that this is a category far beyond justthe common stuff that we find even in
some Asian markets, but a vast globalcategory of ingredients and condiments
(26:14):
and dips and sauces at this point.
Bruce (26:16):
Every week we tell you what's making us happy in food here
in cooking with Bruce and Mark,please go to our Facebook page.
Facebook group also called Cookingwith Bruce and Mark, and you
will see me posting every week.
What's making you happy in food?
Tell us.
We want to know what is makingyou happy in food every week
on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
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