May 12, 2025 • 24 mins
Soy sauce. So many of us in North America grew up thinking it was one thing when in fact it's a big category of things. Yes, mostly related. But the array of soy sauces offers a big difference in flavors and even textures.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, veteran cookbook authors who have written three dozen cookbooks. This podcast is all about our passion: food and cooking. Thanks for joining us.
Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:
[01:07] Our one-minute cooking tip: Store opened soy sauce in the fridge.
[03:25] Japanese, Chinese, and Korean soy sauces: what types are there, what are their differences, and why should you have more than one in your pantry?
[21:13] What’s making us happy in food this week: pho and the Ithaca NY farmers' market.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bruce (00:01):
Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast
Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
And I'm Mark Scrubber, and togetherwith Bruce, we have published 36
cookbooks are about to publishour 37th cold canning this summer.
We've talked about thatalready on this podcast.
Our obsession with.
Food and cooking, which is this podcast,I guess we have other obsessions.
Mm-hmm.
(00:22):
Bruce has a knitting obsession,including online knitting
workshops and knitting books.
He's published and Mark
is obsessed with Dante andother poets and writers.
Mark (00:32):
I am.
I have.
Podcasts all about Dante and thedivine comedy, but that's not this.
This is all about food and cooking.
So as usual, we got aone minute cooking tip.
It's about soy sauce.
And then we're gonna have a bigsegment, our central segment
about the various kinds of soysauce traditionally that are out.
But you didn't
Bruce (00:50):
know there were that
Mark (00:51):
many.
No.
As a kid that grew up in suburban Dallas,I thought soy sauce came in a plastic
package that you ripped open at the table.
So what do I know?
Nothing.
And then we'll tell you what'smaking us happy in food this week.
So let's get started.
Bruce (01:07):
Our one minute cooking tip, store your soy sauce like you do
olive oil, because what destroysit is the same heat and light.
Keep it in a dark cool place andonce opened, unless you'll use it all
within a month, keep it in the fridge.
Okay, so that's
Mark (01:22):
not like olive oil.
I don't mean to correctyou, but That's right.
You don't put olive oil in the fridge.
Well,
Bruce (01:28):
sometimes you might want to, if you're not gonna use it all
right away, it could get gross.
Oh, come on.
You don't put olive oil in the fridge.
I, no, but you wanna keep it awayfrom heat and light, that's for sure.
And most people don't realize you shouldput it in the fridge, the soy sauce,
if you're not gonna use it in a month.
Mark (01:46):
See, I, I think that that was a great example of us because, uh,
the chef paints with a broad strokeand the writer gets very obsessed
with the tiny little details.
Bruce (01:58):
But most people don't know that you should keep the soy sauce in the fridge.
Right.
If you're not gonna use it in a month.
Right.
Mark (02:02):
That is true.
And uh, I think, I've alsoheard told from Asian chefs
that cold soy sauce is no good.
Mm-hmm.
That it, well, I don'twanna say it's no good.
It needs to come back to roomtemperature to have its full set
Bruce (02:16):
of flavors.
That's true.
And I actually do take it outof the fridge, uh, before we.
Eat with it.
If I'm cooking with it, it's fineoutta the fridge, but if you're
using it as a dip or a condimentor putting it on raw fish, right?
Yes, it should come out out of thefridge and it should be at room temp,
Mark (02:30):
right?
So anyway, store it in thefridge for the best access.
But before we get to the nextsegment of the podcast, which
is gonna be all about soy sauce.
Lemme say that we have a TikTokchannel and an Instagram reels
channel and a Facebook group allcalled Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Probably the biggest of those at thispoint is the TikTok channel, so, oh, yeah.
(02:51):
If you're on TikTok, join usat cooking with Bruce and Mark.
We've got all kinds of cooking videos.
We're making lots of jams and thingsto do with jams, but these, uh, videos
appear on Instagram and Facebook.
Two under the groupscooking with Bruce and Mark.
Aren't we clever?
We named it all the same thing.
I know.
Crazy.
So up next, our discussion of soysauce, we're gonna have a focus
(03:12):
on, let's say, three differentkind of national types of soy sauce
and the variations inside of them.
We're gonna talk about whatsoy sauce is, the whole McGill.
So here we go.
Bruce (03:25):
There are many different kinds of soy sauces and
most people don't know that.
Right?
You'd think No soy sauce is soy sauce.
Soy sauce.
Like I say,
Mark (03:32):
no.
When I was a kid and you wentto the Chinese restaurant, it
came in a little plastic packet.
You tore them open.
Exactly.
Bruce (03:37):
That's all I knew.
Yeah.
But basically all soysauce start as soybeans.
They're sometimes mixedwith roasted wheat.
They've got mold or.
Bacteria mixed into themand then they're fermented.
And the fermentation process can takeanywhere from three months to 10 years,
which is why some soy sauces 10 years.
Yeah.
That's why some soy sauces can costlike, you know, a hundred dollars
(04:00):
an ounce and others are 10 years,you know, 99 cents for a quart.
Right.
So we're gonna talk aboutJapanese soy sauces.
We're gonna talk about Chinesesoy sauces, and we're gonna
talk about Korean soy sauces.
Mark (04:10):
And I just wanna say when we get started here, before we get
started, we've got these three.
Basic types of soy sauces that we'regonna talk about, but there are others.
There are Taiwanese soy sauces,there are other soy sauces.
Besides these, we've just chosento focus on these as three big kind
of culinary national categories ofsoy sauce, so Japanese soy sauce.
I think most of usprobably know, it, even if.
(04:33):
Like me, we grew up going tosuburban Dallas, Chinese restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
It's the Japanese soysauce that is at the table.
Bruce (04:41):
Yeah.
Koman is like the brandthat is usually right.
And it's funny, that is a Japanesebrand, but that was the one that
was always even on the Chineserestaurant tables, it was Kiko always.
And the one that you get therein the restaurants, that's their.
Dark soy sauce and Japanese dark soy sauceis the traditional soy sauce that you
think of using when you dip sushi into it.
(05:03):
When you think of those oldChinese restaurants, I have to
Mark (05:06):
say that I, this is the thing that I still go back to, despite all of the
variations of soy sauce that we talkabout, if I'm going to put soy sauce in
anything, this is the soy sauce I use, andBruce uses all kinds of fancy soy sauce.
Mm-hmm.
I love fancy and I don't.
Because I think it's a childhood thing.
It's like when you grew up withsomething and you loved it as a kid.
Uh, Bruce claims that when I putsoy sauce and now I'm gonna offend
(05:28):
every Asian that could possibly existin the whole history of the world.
When I put soy sauceon rice, don't kill me.
When I put it on rice, Bruceclaims I actually make soup.
Bruce (05:37):
Oh, he does?
He just has, it's likebreakfast cereal and milk.
It's rice and soy sauce for him and.
At least if you're doing that, go tothe Japanese light soy sauce, which
most people don't even know about.
It's no, I'm
Mark (05:50):
gonna stick with Koman.
But now you can talk
Bruce (05:52):
about Japanese light soy sauce, and Well, here's the thing,
the koman, they're not usually labeleddark, they're just labeled soy sauce.
So it's a categorydistinction that's rarely.
Even labeled on mass market brands,you have to go to artisanal,
at least in North America.
Yeah, you have to go to artisanalbrands here in the US if you
(06:13):
want to find this distinction.
And you'll see things calledJapanese light, soy sauce.
It's much thinner than the traditional.
Yeah, and don't take light as in calories.
This
Mark (06:21):
doesn't have anything to do with.
Calories.
Well, I know, but it's a thing.
We run the view once and I wasmaking peanut butter and I used light
corn syrup and what was her name?
Starch Star Jones.
Yeah.
Remember Star Jones?
Star Jones was like, oh yeah,we love to save those calories.
I was like, uh, light corn syrupdoesn't save you any calories,
Bruce (06:40):
but okay, good Goode.
And quite honestly, in Japaneselight soy sauce, you're not
gonna save sodium either.
'cause that is a very salty flavor, butit also has a slight sweetness and that's
'cause they often add things like mirinor corn syrup you just talked about.
There you go.
Usually it's used as a soup seasoning.
I've seen it labeled as soupsoy sauce, which when we get
(07:00):
to the Korean soy sauces, theyhave a whole category of that.
Mark (07:03):
Okay.
Why would I go to an Asianmarket and buy Japanese light soy
Bruce (07:07):
sauce?
Let's say you wanted to useit as a seasoning and a broth.
If you were making even Jewish chickensoup and you wanted to throw some noodles
in it and some Asian greens in it,and season it with a little soy sauce,
you get the light Japanese soy sauce.
Okay,
Mark (07:22):
so talk about that for a minute because I think a lot of people don't
know about using light soy sauce.
In this case, the Japanese light soy sauceas a seasoning in stews rather than salt.
Bruce (07:34):
Think about this, that salt is an enhancer.
We've talked about that before.
But soy sauce is a seasoning.
It's a flavor.
It will add some salt, but it'sgonna add a lot of other characters.
Mark (07:45):
So name me a dish that you would add Japanese light soy sauce to
that you might not normally think of.
Adding soy sauce to.
Bruce (07:52):
I can imagine putting a little Japanese light soy
sauce in my hummus, right?
Wallet's going aroundin the food processor.
Wow.
I want that.
That would give it a little saltiness.
It would give it some umami punch.
It's got a little sweetness.
It would really give it anice little punch there.
I can imagine.
Putting it into ground beefbefore I make hamburgers.
(08:12):
Yeah.
Okay.
Right, because it's going togive me all those other flavors.
It's not just the hit of soyflavor that the dark soy sauce.
I'm backed with the hummus.
Um,
Mark (08:21):
I think I want to try hummus with some light Japanese soy sauce in it.
Bruce (08:25):
Okay.
I think I'm gonna have tomake you some for lunch later.
Mark (08:27):
Yeah, I know.
That sounds really good.
So there is a, a separatecategory here that's a little
bit different and that is Tamari.
And you may know Tamari because you mayhave gluten issues or know of family
members or friends with gluten issues.
And if you ever serving any kind of Asianfood, they may have told you to get tamari
or you may have gone and get mm-hmm.
(08:48):
Gotten tamari for them.
But Tamari is essentially soy sauce,but it's made without the wheat.
Bruce (08:54):
This is true.
It is.
It is a soy sauce where the soybeansare cooked and then fermented, but
there's no wheat added, so it'snot as sweet as other soy sauces.
Mark (09:03):
Let me just say, if you do have celiac, you should make sure that
your tamari is certified gluten-free.
Mm-hmm.
Some tamari is made orbottled in facilities where.
Other soy sauces are bottledand there may be wheat residue.
you're really conscious of it, make sureit is in fact gluten's free certified.
Bruce (09:22):
And
there's a fourth category actuallyof soy sauce out of Japan, and it's
almost impossible to find it inthe us and that's white soy sauce.
And it's not white.
It doesn't look like glue.
It doesn't look like milk,and it's just very, very pale.
It can look like tea and it'smade from a high ratio of wheat to
Mark (09:42):
soy.
So, wait, I just wanna stopand say, so this is definitely
not after Tamari gluten-free.
No, this is not, this is, thisis a high wheat soy sauce.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, again, as Bruce says, it'salmost impossible to find this.
I mean, you might.
Be able to go to a really high-end,large Asian grocery store, or even
like H Mart and find this, but it'svery hard to find in North America.
Bruce (10:05):
You might also be offered it if you go to a very expensive sashimi restaurant
or a sushi restaurant because you know,super high-end sushi chefs don't want
you destroying the flavor of the fish.
They carved with regular soy sauce.
So they might offer you thiswhite soy sauce, but we don't go
to those kind of restaurants, so.
I've never been offered it.
Mark (10:25):
No, we do not go to those kind of restaurants and, uh, I, I, I don't know.
I've never even tried this kindof soy, so, so there we go.
There you go.
So that's an academic exercise for us.
Let's move on to that.
Chinese varieties.
Mm-hmm.
And this is a very broadbrush of Chinese varieties.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I believe that many Chinesechefs would knock us crazy for this
because there is not just lightand dark, but we're gonna divide.
(10:48):
We are the Chinese world intolight and dark soy sauce and
Bruce (10:50):
light and dark Chinese soy sauce are the.
Opposite of what Japanese light,this is where it gets dark.
Soy
Mark (10:56):
sauce are gets crazy.
Bruce (10:58):
Yeah.
Light Chinese soy sauceis the everyday soy sauce.
It's the thing you put for dipping sauces.
You could dip dumplings, butit's also the cooking sauce.
It is the equivalent.
If Japanese dark is Chinese light andit, it most resembles that, uh, so
Mark (11:16):
give some brands of light soy sauce, right.
Chinese?
Well,
Bruce (11:19):
I love Pearl River Bridge.
That of course is my absolute favorite.
Okay.
Um, Chinese soy sauce maker
la Choy would be alight Chinese soy sauce.
Mark (11:28):
Okay.
And why would I have this at home?
Bruce (11:30):
This would be your go-to everyday soy sauce.
This is a soy sauce.
No, that's koman, but okay, go on.
That's for you.
That's Koman.
I like my Pearl River bridge.
And you like
Mark (11:40):
your koman?
I do.
I can't help it.
I like my Kiko, so.
Okay.
That's the light stuff.
Mm-hmm.
I'm trying to, and then there is the.
Dark Chinese soy sauce and thisstuff is again, um, it is viscous.
Bruce (11:55):
It is, it's thick, it's syrupy almost, and it's the
addition of sugar or molasses.
It is actually not quite assalty, even as the light one
and you think, oh, it's darker.
It's gonna have a bigger flavor.
It does have a bigger soyflavor, but not saltier..
It's used almost exclusively incooking, and it's often used as
(12:16):
a coloring agent because a fewteaspoons of this will give a dish.
Dish.
Oh.
Like my mother's kitchen bouquet.
A kitchen bouquet.
Yep.
Your mother claims once she found thatshe never browned a piece of meat again.
No.
I'd rather never browned a piece of meat.
She
Mark (12:28):
gRED meat.
Bruce (12:29):
Well, you don't need to
Mark (12:30):
mark.
Bruce (12:30):
We have kitchen
Mark (12:31):
bouquet.
Yes, exactly.
Bruce (12:32):
Caramel coloring.
Mark (12:33):
Oh, um, okay.
So Chinese dark sausageis not really a condiment.
It's a cooking ingredient.
It's an ingredient, absolutely.
And it darkens Chinese bras.
Mm-hmm.
Like red cooking bras.
Yep.
Et cetera.
And I have to say that when I'vetried these, 'cause of course Bruce
has many of these in our pantry,I do not like the taste of dark.
(12:53):
So Chinese dark soy sauce on its own.
Mm-hmm.
It's too sweet.
Yeah.
But.
That said, I know it's in a great dealof the Chinese bras that Bruce makes.
Bruce (13:02):
Yeah.
I buy the big bottles of it.
I use it in everything.
It is a secret ingredient.
I have put it into Frenchbeef stews sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
When I've wanted a slightly darker color.
Okay.
'cause you know, and rather than reachfor a kitchen bouquet, I mean it is.
Right.
Let's just call itChinese kitchen bouquet.
Right.
And there you go.
Mark (13:20):
Isn't, don't, don't.
I know that Chinese dark, sosauce is sometimes used in as a
few drops in compound butters.
Don't I know this?
Oh, what a great
Bruce (13:27):
idea.
Yeah.
That it's
Mark (13:28):
using compound butters with like ginger, like mint
ginger to make a ginger butter.
Bruce (13:34):
Oh, lovely.
Yes.
And it would give it a lovely color too.
That's a great thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mark (13:38):
I think that that it's, it's a very esoteric product and yes, we
do a lot of Asian cooking while we.
Ba Bruce does a lot of Asiancooking and, um, we have lots of
this stuff, but I would say thisis more esoteric of all of 'em.
So having then talked about Chinesesoy sauces, let's do a complete and,
(13:59):
uh, overly cursory look at Koreansoy sauces and Korean sauces or Kang.
They're very difficult to, for,uh, north American to figure out.
Yeah.
Bruce (14:09):
First of all, you're going to have to go to an Asian grocery store.
They're not going to be in yoursupermarket, and you're probably gonna
need to go to a Korean grocery store,like an H Mart, as Mark said earlier.
Mark (14:19):
And if you're looking for an interesting take on soy sauce, Korean
soy sauces are a good place to start.
And there are essentiallythree different varieties.
And there's a ong or a soy sauce that is.
Called sometimes a soup soy sauce.
Yeah, so why don't you talk about
Bruce (14:33):
that.
Well, the soup soy sauce is very similarto the Japanese light soy sauce in
that it's a little thinner, a littlelighter tasting, a little lighter
in color, except no wheat, right?
Right.
It's closer to the tamari in that itis not made with wheat when, but you
have to check the bottles, please.
And then there's a different kindof Jiang, which is made with wheat,
(14:55):
, closer to a standard Japanese.
Dark or a Chinese light soy sauce that'sgonna have your soybeans and your wheat.
So, the three bottles that I.
Always have on hand is going to bea Japanese dark soy sauce, a Chinese
light soy sauce, and this Y JoeJiang, which is the regular non Y.
Mark (15:14):
Okay, well,
Bruce (15:15):
you speak Korean, but No, I don't, I don't, I just know
Mark (15:18):
about
Bruce (15:18):
those long vowels in Korean Y.
But that's the, that'sthe Korean soy sauce.
That is not the soup soy sauce,the traditional soy sauce.
Yeah, and it, why
Mark (15:28):
would I have that on hand?
Why would I have that in my pantry?
Bruce (15:32):
You would have that because you like to try new things because
it has a slightly different flavorprofile than the other soy sauces.
It's a slightly sweeter flavor.
Okay.
Than the Japanese dark.
Okay.
And also to me, it has anherbally quality, even a.
Peppery quality that I like.
That goes really nice with the standardKorean flavors of sesame and scallion.
(15:54):
So lot of black, so pepper.
Mark (15:56):
I mean, why would I have this around?
Why would have the Y zj around you
Bruce (15:59):
If you want, make some stir fried sweet potato noodles called if
you're going to make some bulgogi.
And again.
Don't write in and complainabout my Korean pronunciation.
If you're gonna make a beam bap, ifyou're going to try your hand at Korean
barbecue, you definitely want to tryusing an authentic Korean soy sauce
(16:20):
to, to really get the full experience.
Mark (16:22):
And now, and now you're really hearing the process
of writing cookbooks for us.
Okay, so now you've done all of that.
Now tell me, if I didn'twanna make Korean food, why
Bruce (16:30):
would I have that around?
You might wanna try drizzling it oversome scrambled eggs or an omelet.
Okay?
I think that's a lovely thing you Markcan try making your rice soy sauce
soup out of that and see what youthink, especially if you use a nice
Korean rice or rice and grain blend.
What about
Mark (16:47):
for barbecue marinades?
Bruce (16:48):
A little bit of this soy sauce in any existing barbecue marinade
you already make, whether it's,an oil and vinegar base, whether
it's a, an American Southwest rub,whether it's a Middle Eastern or
even a Mediterranean flavor profile.
A little bit of this.
Korean soy sauce willgive it a depth of flavor.
(17:09):
You won't forget.
Mark (17:10):
And there's one other, uh, Korean soy sauce you can find.
And it's chemically produced.
Yeah, it's j and it's, um, it's okay.
Mm-hmm.
It's, I would say it's not my favorite.
Bruce (17:21):
No.
I would say avoid it if you can.
So look at the ingredients if it'smade with hydrolyzed soy proteins.
Um, okay.
So
Mark (17:28):
I, what I just wanna say is that what you just watched happen or listened
to happen is basically our process ofwriting cookbooks, because Bruce gets.
All up in the culinary and theoreticalbits, and I, as the writer, keep
pushing it back to what does a persondo in their everyday kitchen with this?
And honestly, that whole thing as wewere recording, it felt like writing
(17:50):
a cookbook for us because it felt likeBruce is up here in the stratosphere
somewhere in culinary technique andchef language, and I keep saying, okay.
And, sorry, this is always my example.
What would your sister or my friend inDallas, Debbie, who I know is listening
to this podcast or my friends here inConnecticut, what would they do with this?
(18:16):
And this is.
Always my question, while writingcookbooks, it comes up a thousand times.
Why would your sister buy this?
And it it, it's part of the whole processof how we actually craft a book out.
Bruce (18:30):
It is, I wish you'd asked me why my mother would buy it,
because that's much easier.
My mother loves to just explore new foods.
Well, no, she lovesgoing down the aisles of.
More than trying new things.
Mark (18:38):
No, I'm not interested in that because I wanna know more
about, you know, just a persongoing to work and coming home.
Where are they gonna wantthis in their pantry?
And why are they gonna wanna do this?
And of course, Bruce loves it becauseit's interesting and theoretical and
it's an experiment and taste and allthis stuff, which is what chefs do.
Mm-hmm.
But as the writer, it is my.
(18:59):
Job to pull this thing backtoward the North American
marketplace and the UK marketplace.
So I'm constantly asking, whatdoes this do for the average
commuter driving home from work?
Bruce (19:12):
Yeah.
Mark always asks me, why did youpick that jar out of the pantry?
'cause if I have six differentkinds of vinegars, right?
Six different black.
Vinegars from all over Asia.
Why'd you
Mark (19:21):
pick that one?
Right?
And that's the big question andthat's part of this whole soy sauce
discussion and you can hear it.
Bruce is very excited about allthese categories because of course
they represent various culinarytropes and various culinary
categories, and they representvarious culinary experimentations
he can make and all this stuff.
And I just keep saying why.
(19:41):
Why, why, why, why, why?
'cause I want to.
No, you have to have a morepractical reason than that.
Mm-hmm.
If, if you're gonna actually sella cookbook or a recipe, well, okay.
So we've spent way too long talkingabout soy sauce and how soy sauce,
oh, we should go on for another hour.
Trust me.
I'm sure we could, but we're notgoing to 'cause this is also the
writer's job is to call a halt to anongoing giant discussion of exactly
(20:07):
how you pick the right kiwi fruit.
And instead, instead just cut it tothe chase so the writer is gonna cut
it to the chase and say, that's allwe're gonna say about soy sauces.
You should go to a place like an HMart or a large Asian grocery store.
You should look at all of the soy sauces.
We even go to this really tinyAsian grocery store in New
Haven, Connecticut sometimes.
(20:27):
And um, it's just a small two aislegrocery store with a refrigerator
case, and they have an astoundingarray of soy sauces in there.
So if you pick any market, but.
May I say an H Mart, you will find amillion different kinds of sore sauces
and you can experiment yourself ifyou're so interested, or at least up your
(20:49):
barbecue or scrambled egg at hummus game.
Okay.
Before we get to the final segmentof this podcast, what's making
us happy in food this week?
Let me say that, as I said, wedo have these reels on TikTok
and Instagram and Facebook.
We also have a Facebook group.
Clicking with Bruce and Mark, ifyou're interested in being part of
that group, join us on Facebook.
We post these episodes and wealways ask you the question we're
(21:11):
about to ask ourselves, what'smaking us happy in food this week?
Bruce (21:17):
For me, it's gotta be something I hadn't had in a very long time.
Fu Mark and I went.
True.
We did.
We went out to an Asian noodle
Mark (21:26):
bar restaurant.
Post post annual doctor physicals.
Yep.
So when you have your physicaland you get your blood work,
make sure you go someplace andorder a big bowl of brisket fat
Bruce (21:37):
and go on.
Yeah.
So.
Mark's bowl was all based withrice, noodles and brisket.
It was, mine had this strip steakthat was grilled and sliced and
put on top, but then they said,would you like to add something?
We suggest adding the brisket.
So I had the brisketadded to the strip steak.
Only
Mark (21:53):
you would have brisket and strip steak
Bruce (21:55):
So we had that lunch and then about seven o'clock that night,
more like, you're not making dinner.
I'm like, oh, I'm still full from lunch.
That was stayed with me,
Mark (22:04):
but that was good.
It was good.
It, it was really wild.
Um, I wouldn't say it'sthe best pho I'd ever had.
The broth was a little lacking,but the meat was not lacking.
The meat
Bruce (22:13):
was amazing.
They had
Mark (22:14):
so.
Is that a verb?
Okay.
They had so heated the brisket,so it was still pink inside,
but super tender and, and
Bruce (22:22):
each piece I doused
Mark (22:23):
in black vinegar before I ate it.
It was so good.
It was really kind of a crazy thing.
So, uh, what was making me happyin food this last weekend is Bruce
and I spent a weekend in the FingerLakes of New York and we went down
to Ithaca and we explored the.
Ithaca, New York Farmer's Market.
And let me just say that if you havenever been to Ithaca, you should, if
(22:44):
you like waterfalls, because thereare about a billion waterfalls.
I may have overstated, but seemslike a billion within a very, very
short distance from Ithaca and evenon the campus of Cornell, but beyond.
That there is the Ithaca Farmer'sMarket, which has been built on the
shores of one of the finger lakes.
It is a really spectacularand special farmer's market.
(23:08):
Mm-hmm.
Lots of people.
We were there on a Saturday.
It was crowded, but it was nicely crowded.
Lots of families, lots of strollers,lots of people making lunch stands
where you can eat lunch if you'reever in upstate New York, and you
should visit for all the waterfalls.
You should really make a tripto the Ithaca Farmer's Market.
It was fabulous.
It's quite amazing, and I boughtto continue this discussion, some
(23:31):
beautiful white kimchi, which is thenon deeply fermented, not terribly hot.
Mm-hmm.
Kimchi from a vendor atthat farmer's market.
It was really great.
Okay.
That's the podcast for this week.
Thanks for being part of our community.
Thanks for being with us on this journey.
We appreciate your being here, and wehope that you will like and subscribe
(23:52):
to this podcast to keep it in your feed.
Bruce (23:55):
Please go to our Facebook group Cooking with Bruce and Mark and tell
us what's making you happy in food.
This week.
We want to know, because we sharewhat's making us happy each week.
We wanna know what'smaking you happy in food.
This week here at Cookingwith Bruce and Mark,
Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast
Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
And I'm Mark Scrubber, and togetherwith Bruce, we have published 36
cookbooks are about to publishour 37th cold canning this summer.
We've talked about thatalready on this podcast.
Our obsession with.
Food and cooking, which is this podcast,I guess we have other obsessions.
Mm-hmm.
(00:22):
Bruce has a knitting obsession,including online knitting
workshops and knitting books.
He's published and Mark
is obsessed with Dante andother poets and writers.
Mark (00:32):
I am.
I have.
Podcasts all about Dante and thedivine comedy, but that's not this.
This is all about food and cooking.
So as usual, we got aone minute cooking tip.
It's about soy sauce.
And then we're gonna have a bigsegment, our central segment
about the various kinds of soysauce traditionally that are out.
But you didn't
Bruce (00:50):
know there were that
Mark (00:51):
many.
No.
As a kid that grew up in suburban Dallas,I thought soy sauce came in a plastic
package that you ripped open at the table.
So what do I know?
Nothing.
And then we'll tell you what'smaking us happy in food this week.
So let's get started.
Bruce (01:07):
Our one minute cooking tip, store your soy sauce like you do
olive oil, because what destroysit is the same heat and light.
Keep it in a dark cool place andonce opened, unless you'll use it all
within a month, keep it in the fridge.
Okay, so that's
Mark (01:22):
not like olive oil.
I don't mean to correctyou, but That's right.
You don't put olive oil in the fridge.
Well,
Bruce (01:28):
sometimes you might want to, if you're not gonna use it all
right away, it could get gross.
Oh, come on.
You don't put olive oil in the fridge.
I, no, but you wanna keep it awayfrom heat and light, that's for sure.
And most people don't realize you shouldput it in the fridge, the soy sauce,
if you're not gonna use it in a month.
Mark (01:46):
See, I, I think that that was a great example of us because, uh,
the chef paints with a broad strokeand the writer gets very obsessed
with the tiny little details.
Bruce (01:58):
But most people don't know that you should keep the soy sauce in the fridge.
Right.
If you're not gonna use it in a month.
Right.
Mark (02:02):
That is true.
And uh, I think, I've alsoheard told from Asian chefs
that cold soy sauce is no good.
Mm-hmm.
That it, well, I don'twanna say it's no good.
It needs to come back to roomtemperature to have its full set
Bruce (02:16):
of flavors.
That's true.
And I actually do take it outof the fridge, uh, before we.
Eat with it.
If I'm cooking with it, it's fineoutta the fridge, but if you're
using it as a dip or a condimentor putting it on raw fish, right?
Yes, it should come out out of thefridge and it should be at room temp,
Mark (02:30):
right?
So anyway, store it in thefridge for the best access.
But before we get to the nextsegment of the podcast, which
is gonna be all about soy sauce.
Lemme say that we have a TikTokchannel and an Instagram reels
channel and a Facebook group allcalled Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Probably the biggest of those at thispoint is the TikTok channel, so, oh, yeah.
(02:51):
If you're on TikTok, join usat cooking with Bruce and Mark.
We've got all kinds of cooking videos.
We're making lots of jams and thingsto do with jams, but these, uh, videos
appear on Instagram and Facebook.
Two under the groupscooking with Bruce and Mark.
Aren't we clever?
We named it all the same thing.
I know.
Crazy.
So up next, our discussion of soysauce, we're gonna have a focus
(03:12):
on, let's say, three differentkind of national types of soy sauce
and the variations inside of them.
We're gonna talk about whatsoy sauce is, the whole McGill.
So here we go.
Bruce (03:25):
There are many different kinds of soy sauces and
most people don't know that.
Right?
You'd think No soy sauce is soy sauce.
Soy sauce.
Like I say,
Mark (03:32):
no.
When I was a kid and you wentto the Chinese restaurant, it
came in a little plastic packet.
You tore them open.
Exactly.
Bruce (03:37):
That's all I knew.
Yeah.
But basically all soysauce start as soybeans.
They're sometimes mixedwith roasted wheat.
They've got mold or.
Bacteria mixed into themand then they're fermented.
And the fermentation process can takeanywhere from three months to 10 years,
which is why some soy sauces 10 years.
Yeah.
That's why some soy sauces can costlike, you know, a hundred dollars
(04:00):
an ounce and others are 10 years,you know, 99 cents for a quart.
Right.
So we're gonna talk aboutJapanese soy sauces.
We're gonna talk about Chinesesoy sauces, and we're gonna
talk about Korean soy sauces.
Mark (04:10):
And I just wanna say when we get started here, before we get
started, we've got these three.
Basic types of soy sauces that we'regonna talk about, but there are others.
There are Taiwanese soy sauces,there are other soy sauces.
Besides these, we've just chosento focus on these as three big kind
of culinary national categories ofsoy sauce, so Japanese soy sauce.
I think most of usprobably know, it, even if.
(04:33):
Like me, we grew up going tosuburban Dallas, Chinese restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
It's the Japanese soysauce that is at the table.
Bruce (04:41):
Yeah.
Koman is like the brandthat is usually right.
And it's funny, that is a Japanesebrand, but that was the one that
was always even on the Chineserestaurant tables, it was Kiko always.
And the one that you get therein the restaurants, that's their.
Dark soy sauce and Japanese dark soy sauceis the traditional soy sauce that you
think of using when you dip sushi into it.
(05:03):
When you think of those oldChinese restaurants, I have to
Mark (05:06):
say that I, this is the thing that I still go back to, despite all of the
variations of soy sauce that we talkabout, if I'm going to put soy sauce in
anything, this is the soy sauce I use, andBruce uses all kinds of fancy soy sauce.
Mm-hmm.
I love fancy and I don't.
Because I think it's a childhood thing.
It's like when you grew up withsomething and you loved it as a kid.
Uh, Bruce claims that when I putsoy sauce and now I'm gonna offend
(05:28):
every Asian that could possibly existin the whole history of the world.
When I put soy sauceon rice, don't kill me.
When I put it on rice, Bruceclaims I actually make soup.
Bruce (05:37):
Oh, he does?
He just has, it's likebreakfast cereal and milk.
It's rice and soy sauce for him and.
At least if you're doing that, go tothe Japanese light soy sauce, which
most people don't even know about.
It's no, I'm
Mark (05:50):
gonna stick with Koman.
But now you can talk
Bruce (05:52):
about Japanese light soy sauce, and Well, here's the thing,
the koman, they're not usually labeleddark, they're just labeled soy sauce.
So it's a categorydistinction that's rarely.
Even labeled on mass market brands,you have to go to artisanal,
at least in North America.
Yeah, you have to go to artisanalbrands here in the US if you
(06:13):
want to find this distinction.
And you'll see things calledJapanese light, soy sauce.
It's much thinner than the traditional.
Yeah, and don't take light as in calories.
This
Mark (06:21):
doesn't have anything to do with.
Calories.
Well, I know, but it's a thing.
We run the view once and I wasmaking peanut butter and I used light
corn syrup and what was her name?
Starch Star Jones.
Yeah.
Remember Star Jones?
Star Jones was like, oh yeah,we love to save those calories.
I was like, uh, light corn syrupdoesn't save you any calories,
Bruce (06:40):
but okay, good Goode.
And quite honestly, in Japaneselight soy sauce, you're not
gonna save sodium either.
'cause that is a very salty flavor, butit also has a slight sweetness and that's
'cause they often add things like mirinor corn syrup you just talked about.
There you go.
Usually it's used as a soup seasoning.
I've seen it labeled as soupsoy sauce, which when we get
(07:00):
to the Korean soy sauces, theyhave a whole category of that.
Mark (07:03):
Okay.
Why would I go to an Asianmarket and buy Japanese light soy
Bruce (07:07):
sauce?
Let's say you wanted to useit as a seasoning and a broth.
If you were making even Jewish chickensoup and you wanted to throw some noodles
in it and some Asian greens in it,and season it with a little soy sauce,
you get the light Japanese soy sauce.
Okay,
Mark (07:22):
so talk about that for a minute because I think a lot of people don't
know about using light soy sauce.
In this case, the Japanese light soy sauceas a seasoning in stews rather than salt.
Bruce (07:34):
Think about this, that salt is an enhancer.
We've talked about that before.
But soy sauce is a seasoning.
It's a flavor.
It will add some salt, but it'sgonna add a lot of other characters.
Mark (07:45):
So name me a dish that you would add Japanese light soy sauce to
that you might not normally think of.
Adding soy sauce to.
Bruce (07:52):
I can imagine putting a little Japanese light soy
sauce in my hummus, right?
Wallet's going aroundin the food processor.
Wow.
I want that.
That would give it a little saltiness.
It would give it some umami punch.
It's got a little sweetness.
It would really give it anice little punch there.
I can imagine.
Putting it into ground beefbefore I make hamburgers.
(08:12):
Yeah.
Okay.
Right, because it's going togive me all those other flavors.
It's not just the hit of soyflavor that the dark soy sauce.
I'm backed with the hummus.
Um,
Mark (08:21):
I think I want to try hummus with some light Japanese soy sauce in it.
Bruce (08:25):
Okay.
I think I'm gonna have tomake you some for lunch later.
Mark (08:27):
Yeah, I know.
That sounds really good.
So there is a, a separatecategory here that's a little
bit different and that is Tamari.
And you may know Tamari because you mayhave gluten issues or know of family
members or friends with gluten issues.
And if you ever serving any kind of Asianfood, they may have told you to get tamari
or you may have gone and get mm-hmm.
(08:48):
Gotten tamari for them.
But Tamari is essentially soy sauce,but it's made without the wheat.
Bruce (08:54):
This is true.
It is.
It is a soy sauce where the soybeansare cooked and then fermented, but
there's no wheat added, so it'snot as sweet as other soy sauces.
Mark (09:03):
Let me just say, if you do have celiac, you should make sure that
your tamari is certified gluten-free.
Mm-hmm.
Some tamari is made orbottled in facilities where.
Other soy sauces are bottledand there may be wheat residue.
you're really conscious of it, make sureit is in fact gluten's free certified.
Bruce (09:22):
And
there's a fourth category actuallyof soy sauce out of Japan, and it's
almost impossible to find it inthe us and that's white soy sauce.
And it's not white.
It doesn't look like glue.
It doesn't look like milk,and it's just very, very pale.
It can look like tea and it'smade from a high ratio of wheat to
Mark (09:42):
soy.
So, wait, I just wanna stopand say, so this is definitely
not after Tamari gluten-free.
No, this is not, this is, thisis a high wheat soy sauce.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, again, as Bruce says, it'salmost impossible to find this.
I mean, you might.
Be able to go to a really high-end,large Asian grocery store, or even
like H Mart and find this, but it'svery hard to find in North America.
Bruce (10:05):
You might also be offered it if you go to a very expensive sashimi restaurant
or a sushi restaurant because you know,super high-end sushi chefs don't want
you destroying the flavor of the fish.
They carved with regular soy sauce.
So they might offer you thiswhite soy sauce, but we don't go
to those kind of restaurants, so.
I've never been offered it.
Mark (10:25):
No, we do not go to those kind of restaurants and, uh, I, I, I don't know.
I've never even tried this kindof soy, so, so there we go.
There you go.
So that's an academic exercise for us.
Let's move on to that.
Chinese varieties.
Mm-hmm.
And this is a very broadbrush of Chinese varieties.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I believe that many Chinesechefs would knock us crazy for this
because there is not just lightand dark, but we're gonna divide.
(10:48):
We are the Chinese world intolight and dark soy sauce and
Bruce (10:50):
light and dark Chinese soy sauce are the.
Opposite of what Japanese light,this is where it gets dark.
Soy
Mark (10:56):
sauce are gets crazy.
Bruce (10:58):
Yeah.
Light Chinese soy sauceis the everyday soy sauce.
It's the thing you put for dipping sauces.
You could dip dumplings, butit's also the cooking sauce.
It is the equivalent.
If Japanese dark is Chinese light andit, it most resembles that, uh, so
Mark (11:16):
give some brands of light soy sauce, right.
Chinese?
Well,
Bruce (11:19):
I love Pearl River Bridge.
That of course is my absolute favorite.
Okay.
Um, Chinese soy sauce maker
la Choy would be alight Chinese soy sauce.
Mark (11:28):
Okay.
And why would I have this at home?
Bruce (11:30):
This would be your go-to everyday soy sauce.
This is a soy sauce.
No, that's koman, but okay, go on.
That's for you.
That's Koman.
I like my Pearl River bridge.
And you like
Mark (11:40):
your koman?
I do.
I can't help it.
I like my Kiko, so.
Okay.
That's the light stuff.
Mm-hmm.
I'm trying to, and then there is the.
Dark Chinese soy sauce and thisstuff is again, um, it is viscous.
Bruce (11:55):
It is, it's thick, it's syrupy almost, and it's the
addition of sugar or molasses.
It is actually not quite assalty, even as the light one
and you think, oh, it's darker.
It's gonna have a bigger flavor.
It does have a bigger soyflavor, but not saltier..
It's used almost exclusively incooking, and it's often used as
(12:16):
a coloring agent because a fewteaspoons of this will give a dish.
Dish.
Oh.
Like my mother's kitchen bouquet.
A kitchen bouquet.
Yep.
Your mother claims once she found thatshe never browned a piece of meat again.
No.
I'd rather never browned a piece of meat.
She
Mark (12:28):
gRED meat.
Bruce (12:29):
Well, you don't need to
Mark (12:30):
mark.
Bruce (12:30):
We have kitchen
Mark (12:31):
bouquet.
Yes, exactly.
Bruce (12:32):
Caramel coloring.
Mark (12:33):
Oh, um, okay.
So Chinese dark sausageis not really a condiment.
It's a cooking ingredient.
It's an ingredient, absolutely.
And it darkens Chinese bras.
Mm-hmm.
Like red cooking bras.
Yep.
Et cetera.
And I have to say that when I'vetried these, 'cause of course Bruce
has many of these in our pantry,I do not like the taste of dark.
(12:53):
So Chinese dark soy sauce on its own.
Mm-hmm.
It's too sweet.
Yeah.
But.
That said, I know it's in a great dealof the Chinese bras that Bruce makes.
Bruce (13:02):
Yeah.
I buy the big bottles of it.
I use it in everything.
It is a secret ingredient.
I have put it into Frenchbeef stews sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
When I've wanted a slightly darker color.
Okay.
'cause you know, and rather than reachfor a kitchen bouquet, I mean it is.
Right.
Let's just call itChinese kitchen bouquet.
Right.
And there you go.
Mark (13:20):
Isn't, don't, don't.
I know that Chinese dark, sosauce is sometimes used in as a
few drops in compound butters.
Don't I know this?
Oh, what a great
Bruce (13:27):
idea.
Yeah.
That it's
Mark (13:28):
using compound butters with like ginger, like mint
ginger to make a ginger butter.
Bruce (13:34):
Oh, lovely.
Yes.
And it would give it a lovely color too.
That's a great thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mark (13:38):
I think that that it's, it's a very esoteric product and yes, we
do a lot of Asian cooking while we.
Ba Bruce does a lot of Asiancooking and, um, we have lots of
this stuff, but I would say thisis more esoteric of all of 'em.
So having then talked about Chinesesoy sauces, let's do a complete and,
(13:59):
uh, overly cursory look at Koreansoy sauces and Korean sauces or Kang.
They're very difficult to, for,uh, north American to figure out.
Yeah.
Bruce (14:09):
First of all, you're going to have to go to an Asian grocery store.
They're not going to be in yoursupermarket, and you're probably gonna
need to go to a Korean grocery store,like an H Mart, as Mark said earlier.
Mark (14:19):
And if you're looking for an interesting take on soy sauce, Korean
soy sauces are a good place to start.
And there are essentiallythree different varieties.
And there's a ong or a soy sauce that is.
Called sometimes a soup soy sauce.
Yeah, so why don't you talk about
Bruce (14:33):
that.
Well, the soup soy sauce is very similarto the Japanese light soy sauce in
that it's a little thinner, a littlelighter tasting, a little lighter
in color, except no wheat, right?
Right.
It's closer to the tamari in that itis not made with wheat when, but you
have to check the bottles, please.
And then there's a different kindof Jiang, which is made with wheat,
(14:55):
, closer to a standard Japanese.
Dark or a Chinese light soy sauce that'sgonna have your soybeans and your wheat.
So, the three bottles that I.
Always have on hand is going to bea Japanese dark soy sauce, a Chinese
light soy sauce, and this Y JoeJiang, which is the regular non Y.
Mark (15:14):
Okay, well,
Bruce (15:15):
you speak Korean, but No, I don't, I don't, I just know
Mark (15:18):
about
Bruce (15:18):
those long vowels in Korean Y.
But that's the, that'sthe Korean soy sauce.
That is not the soup soy sauce,the traditional soy sauce.
Yeah, and it, why
Mark (15:28):
would I have that on hand?
Why would I have that in my pantry?
Bruce (15:32):
You would have that because you like to try new things because
it has a slightly different flavorprofile than the other soy sauces.
It's a slightly sweeter flavor.
Okay.
Than the Japanese dark.
Okay.
And also to me, it has anherbally quality, even a.
Peppery quality that I like.
That goes really nice with the standardKorean flavors of sesame and scallion.
(15:54):
So lot of black, so pepper.
Mark (15:56):
I mean, why would I have this around?
Why would have the Y zj around you
Bruce (15:59):
If you want, make some stir fried sweet potato noodles called if
you're going to make some bulgogi.
And again.
Don't write in and complainabout my Korean pronunciation.
If you're gonna make a beam bap, ifyou're going to try your hand at Korean
barbecue, you definitely want to tryusing an authentic Korean soy sauce
(16:20):
to, to really get the full experience.
Mark (16:22):
And now, and now you're really hearing the process
of writing cookbooks for us.
Okay, so now you've done all of that.
Now tell me, if I didn'twanna make Korean food, why
Bruce (16:30):
would I have that around?
You might wanna try drizzling it oversome scrambled eggs or an omelet.
Okay?
I think that's a lovely thing you Markcan try making your rice soy sauce
soup out of that and see what youthink, especially if you use a nice
Korean rice or rice and grain blend.
What about
Mark (16:47):
for barbecue marinades?
Bruce (16:48):
A little bit of this soy sauce in any existing barbecue marinade
you already make, whether it's,an oil and vinegar base, whether
it's a, an American Southwest rub,whether it's a Middle Eastern or
even a Mediterranean flavor profile.
A little bit of this.
Korean soy sauce willgive it a depth of flavor.
(17:09):
You won't forget.
Mark (17:10):
And there's one other, uh, Korean soy sauce you can find.
And it's chemically produced.
Yeah, it's j and it's, um, it's okay.
Mm-hmm.
It's, I would say it's not my favorite.
Bruce (17:21):
No.
I would say avoid it if you can.
So look at the ingredients if it'smade with hydrolyzed soy proteins.
Um, okay.
So
Mark (17:28):
I, what I just wanna say is that what you just watched happen or listened
to happen is basically our process ofwriting cookbooks, because Bruce gets.
All up in the culinary and theoreticalbits, and I, as the writer, keep
pushing it back to what does a persondo in their everyday kitchen with this?
And honestly, that whole thing as wewere recording, it felt like writing
(17:50):
a cookbook for us because it felt likeBruce is up here in the stratosphere
somewhere in culinary technique andchef language, and I keep saying, okay.
And, sorry, this is always my example.
What would your sister or my friend inDallas, Debbie, who I know is listening
to this podcast or my friends here inConnecticut, what would they do with this?
(18:16):
And this is.
Always my question, while writingcookbooks, it comes up a thousand times.
Why would your sister buy this?
And it it, it's part of the whole processof how we actually craft a book out.
Bruce (18:30):
It is, I wish you'd asked me why my mother would buy it,
because that's much easier.
My mother loves to just explore new foods.
Well, no, she lovesgoing down the aisles of.
More than trying new things.
Mark (18:38):
No, I'm not interested in that because I wanna know more
about, you know, just a persongoing to work and coming home.
Where are they gonna wantthis in their pantry?
And why are they gonna wanna do this?
And of course, Bruce loves it becauseit's interesting and theoretical and
it's an experiment and taste and allthis stuff, which is what chefs do.
Mm-hmm.
But as the writer, it is my.
(18:59):
Job to pull this thing backtoward the North American
marketplace and the UK marketplace.
So I'm constantly asking, whatdoes this do for the average
commuter driving home from work?
Bruce (19:12):
Yeah.
Mark always asks me, why did youpick that jar out of the pantry?
'cause if I have six differentkinds of vinegars, right?
Six different black.
Vinegars from all over Asia.
Why'd you
Mark (19:21):
pick that one?
Right?
And that's the big question andthat's part of this whole soy sauce
discussion and you can hear it.
Bruce is very excited about allthese categories because of course
they represent various culinarytropes and various culinary
categories, and they representvarious culinary experimentations
he can make and all this stuff.
And I just keep saying why.
(19:41):
Why, why, why, why, why?
'cause I want to.
No, you have to have a morepractical reason than that.
Mm-hmm.
If, if you're gonna actually sella cookbook or a recipe, well, okay.
So we've spent way too long talkingabout soy sauce and how soy sauce,
oh, we should go on for another hour.
Trust me.
I'm sure we could, but we're notgoing to 'cause this is also the
writer's job is to call a halt to anongoing giant discussion of exactly
(20:07):
how you pick the right kiwi fruit.
And instead, instead just cut it tothe chase so the writer is gonna cut
it to the chase and say, that's allwe're gonna say about soy sauces.
You should go to a place like an HMart or a large Asian grocery store.
You should look at all of the soy sauces.
We even go to this really tinyAsian grocery store in New
Haven, Connecticut sometimes.
(20:27):
And um, it's just a small two aislegrocery store with a refrigerator
case, and they have an astoundingarray of soy sauces in there.
So if you pick any market, but.
May I say an H Mart, you will find amillion different kinds of sore sauces
and you can experiment yourself ifyou're so interested, or at least up your
(20:49):
barbecue or scrambled egg at hummus game.
Okay.
Before we get to the final segmentof this podcast, what's making
us happy in food this week?
Let me say that, as I said, wedo have these reels on TikTok
and Instagram and Facebook.
We also have a Facebook group.
Clicking with Bruce and Mark, ifyou're interested in being part of
that group, join us on Facebook.
We post these episodes and wealways ask you the question we're
(21:11):
about to ask ourselves, what'smaking us happy in food this week?
Bruce (21:17):
For me, it's gotta be something I hadn't had in a very long time.
Fu Mark and I went.
True.
We did.
We went out to an Asian noodle
Mark (21:26):
bar restaurant.
Post post annual doctor physicals.
Yep.
So when you have your physicaland you get your blood work,
make sure you go someplace andorder a big bowl of brisket fat
Bruce (21:37):
and go on.
Yeah.
So.
Mark's bowl was all based withrice, noodles and brisket.
It was, mine had this strip steakthat was grilled and sliced and
put on top, but then they said,would you like to add something?
We suggest adding the brisket.
So I had the brisketadded to the strip steak.
Only
Mark (21:53):
you would have brisket and strip steak
Bruce (21:55):
So we had that lunch and then about seven o'clock that night,
more like, you're not making dinner.
I'm like, oh, I'm still full from lunch.
That was stayed with me,
Mark (22:04):
but that was good.
It was good.
It, it was really wild.
Um, I wouldn't say it'sthe best pho I'd ever had.
The broth was a little lacking,but the meat was not lacking.
The meat
Bruce (22:13):
was amazing.
They had
Mark (22:14):
so.
Is that a verb?
Okay.
They had so heated the brisket,so it was still pink inside,
but super tender and, and
Bruce (22:22):
each piece I doused
Mark (22:23):
in black vinegar before I ate it.
It was so good.
It was really kind of a crazy thing.
So, uh, what was making me happyin food this last weekend is Bruce
and I spent a weekend in the FingerLakes of New York and we went down
to Ithaca and we explored the.
Ithaca, New York Farmer's Market.
And let me just say that if you havenever been to Ithaca, you should, if
(22:44):
you like waterfalls, because thereare about a billion waterfalls.
I may have overstated, but seemslike a billion within a very, very
short distance from Ithaca and evenon the campus of Cornell, but beyond.
That there is the Ithaca Farmer'sMarket, which has been built on the
shores of one of the finger lakes.
It is a really spectacularand special farmer's market.
(23:08):
Mm-hmm.
Lots of people.
We were there on a Saturday.
It was crowded, but it was nicely crowded.
Lots of families, lots of strollers,lots of people making lunch stands
where you can eat lunch if you'reever in upstate New York, and you
should visit for all the waterfalls.
You should really make a tripto the Ithaca Farmer's Market.
It was fabulous.
It's quite amazing, and I boughtto continue this discussion, some
(23:31):
beautiful white kimchi, which is thenon deeply fermented, not terribly hot.
Mm-hmm.
Kimchi from a vendor atthat farmer's market.
It was really great.
Okay.
That's the podcast for this week.
Thanks for being part of our community.
Thanks for being with us on this journey.
We appreciate your being here, and wehope that you will like and subscribe
(23:52):
to this podcast to keep it in your feed.
Bruce (23:55):
Please go to our Facebook group Cooking with Bruce and Mark and tell
us what's making you happy in food.
This week.
We want to know, because we sharewhat's making us happy each week.
We wanna know what'smaking you happy in food.
This week here at Cookingwith Bruce and Mark,
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