June 16, 2025 • 24 mins
Food recalls! They happen all the time. It seems there's always another one announced. What are some of the latest? And what are steps we can take to make sure we're safe at the table?
We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, authors of thirty-seven cookbooks including the latest, COLD CANNING! To find that book, please click on this link.
We've also got a one-minute cooking tip (that's not really a trick but a call-out to you guys). And what's making us happy this week.
Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:
[01:04] Our one-minute cooking tip? No, actually, what has made you guys happy in the last few weeks!
[03:27] Foods safety recalls. What are some of the latest? But most importantly, what can we do to keep ourselves safe?
[20:57] What’s making us happy in food this week? Vegan chili and sheet cakes!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bruce (00:01):
Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast Cooking with
mark (00:03):
Bruce and Martin.
And I'm Mark Scarborough.
And together with Bruce, we havewritten three dozen plus wine
cookbooks we're about to publish.
If you're listening to this inreal time, we're about to publish
our 37th cookbook called Canning.
It's out in just a month or so.
If again, in real time, I knowpodcasts don't exist in real time, but.
They exist in a quantum realitywhere you can hear it at any
(00:25):
moment, but okay, in real time, coldcanning comes out in about a month.
Small batch, no steam or pressure canner.
Two or three jars of your favoritethings, chili, crisp salsa, matcha
jams, conserves preserves, ketchups,mustards, barbecue, sauces, the whole.
Oh, where do you see the book?
It is really beautiful, isn't it?
It's
Bruce (00:46):
beautiful.
mark (00:46):
Okay, so anyway, to get to what we're doing this week, we've
got as usual, a one minute cookingtip, which isn't really a tip.
We'll explain that.
We're gonna talk about food safetyrecalls, and we'll tell you what's
making us happy in food this week.
So let's get started.
Bruce (01:04):
Our one minute cooking tip, or.
Rather than a tip.
This week, we wanna share some ofwhat you all have shared recently
on what's making you happy in food.
This week.
We ask you to do that at ourFacebook group quickly with Bruce
and Mark, and you have, mm-hmm.
So this past week, somebody said theyhad nice fat asparagus and lamb chops.
Mm-hmm.
(01:24):
We love that combination.
Mm-hmm.
We eat lamb chops atasparagus all the time.
We just had that combination,
mark (01:29):
didn't we?
Not, not so long ago.
We had asparagus, we found.
Uh, asparagus.
Where'd we find
Bruce (01:35):
it?
Our friend Jay, let us pick it.
I went to his garden to pick rhubarb,and while I was there he said,
help yourself to the asparagus.
You know, I didn't know that.
Asparagus travels in a garden.
So you plant it one placeand it starts popping up.
There's nothing likefresh asparagus, right?
It has a taste that's like,doesn't taste like supermarket.
And it's not woody.
It's not stringy.
mark (01:54):
No.
No.
And you found, we found lambchops at Costco recently.
Love their lamb.
So we had lamb chops on the grill with.
Asparagus value.
Somebody else wrote in and talkedabout strawberry rhubarb skier.
If you don't know, skieris an Icelandic yogurt.
It's usually low fat,sometimes it's even fat free.
I think Iceland though, they pourcream over the top of it, which
(02:14):
returns it to its natural steak.
But anyway, somebody foundstrawberry rhubarb skier.
Doesn't that sound delicious?
Amazing.
Bruce (02:22):
I want to try that.
And then the third person that wewanted to call out said they had
something called garlic breath pizza.
Oh my gosh.
And they loved it.
I can imagine that would be delicious.
Garlic
mark (02:32):
breath.
Bruce (02:33):
Yeah, that would be delicious.
Not bread, no breath.
That would be delicious to eat.
But I don't wanna be aroundyou when you're done.
mark (02:39):
I don't either.
There's a pizza joint nearus in rural New England.
It's a beautiful place with a beautifulpizza oven and they make various white
pizzas, which are heavily garlic.
And I have to say that they're too garlicthere for me, so I don't know what.
Garlic breath pizza would be like, butholy crow, that'd be a lot of garlic.
Okay, before we get into the food safetyrecall that we were gonna talk about,
(03:04):
or the many food safety recalls we'regonna talk about, let's say that it would
be great if you could subscribe to thispodcast and it would be great if you
could rate it, give it a five star rating.
Can I ask for that?
And better yet, if you could writea small review, even like just
great podcast or Nice to hearyou, something as simple as that.
It keeps the podcast fresh inthe algorithms because we are.
Otherwise unsupported.
(03:25):
So thanks for doing that.
Alright, let's talk aboutfood safety recalls.
Bruce (03:34):
If you paid attention to the news recently, you know that Costco
of all places just did a recall of.
Topo Chico Mineral water.
Oh, one of your favoritethings, Topo Chico.
I do.
And these is the mineralwater in glass bottles.
And they recalled them because it'sdue to a possible contamination with
pseudomonas, which is a bacteria foundnaturally in water sources and it can
(03:58):
cause an infection, especially if youhave a compromised immune system or
you know, you're not well in general.
Mm-hmm.
Also a number of ready-madesandwiches at Costco.
mark (04:10):
Whoops.
Oh wow.
There have been a lot of recalls recentlyand uh, I don't wanna get political
about this, but as you know, it'sbecome tougher to find those recalls
because some of the information has beendeleted from US government websites.
We're talking about US foodrecalls, by the way, here.
Not just Canadian orEuropean, but these are us.
And as you know, that informationhas become tougher to source.
(04:33):
You can find it.
Easily, and there are ways to do this frommanufacturers, if you will do a keyword
search for food recall or just recall.
If you do that in Instagram or inTikTok, you can find manufacturers
who are announcing their recalls
Bruce (04:52):
and recalls aren't.
Only because of contaminationfrom bad things.
You know, there are nine major foodallergens that are identified by the
FDA in the US and these are, you know,things we all eat and drink every day.
Eggs, milk, wheat, fish, soybeans.
The sesame seeds, treenuts, peanuts, shellfish.
(05:15):
And if any of these allergens are in afood, it must be labeled on the package.
And sometimes if that labelingisn't done, a recall is done.
mark (05:24):
Yeah.
And it's not always labeled.
And let me say that we'velearned this over the years from
writing cookbooks, for example.
Um.
Oats are not always labeled thatthey may contain wheat protein.
Now you might say, what does wheatprotein have to do with oats?
The problem is that most oats areprocessed in facilities that also process
(05:47):
wheat, and there is some residual wheat.
Dust, no matter how hardthey clean the facility.
So they're not required to saythis on a packaging of oats
that there may be wheat residue.
And if you have an issue with wheat, andparticularly if you have celiac, then
you want to make sure you get certifiedfree oats and these are made then.
(06:12):
In a facility, they're processedin a facility that assures you
that they do not process wheatin any way along with those oats.
Just look for those labelsif that's important to you.
Bruce (06:25):
So here's what happens.
Food recalls come out and people food out.
So we wanna give you, youknow, four steps to take.
If you see there's been a food recall.
Okay?
And the first one is.
Don't panic.
No, don't panic, right?
I mean, there's no need to panic.
Most food recalls are really notassociated with foodborne illnesses,
(06:46):
right to begin with, right?
As we said, it could be as simple asa food allergen and many recalls are
issued just because there's a potential.
For the food to be contaminated
mark (06:55):
and also don't panic because if you are an otherwise healthy
person, you will most likely survivea foodborne illness outbreak.
Now, there are some foodborne illnessesthat in fact require hospitalization,
but by and large, even a campylobacteror a salmonella contamination.
(07:17):
You will most likely notguaranteed, but most likely survive.
You will be very sick.
Bruce (07:24):
I was, I had such an infection.
You did from foodborne illness youdid a couple of months ago and yes,
I was sick for about 12 days, but Irecovered and I'm feeling fabulous
and nothing terrible happened to me.
We never found out what it.
Was that I ate, we made an
mark (07:38):
assumption.
Bruce (07:38):
Yeah,
mark (07:39):
there's, we made an assumption.
It was Ca Bruce said, camp Loob backer.
If you listen to our podcast,you probably know that.
And we think it was from, uh, chicken.
And we think he was skinning chickenthighs and did not properly wash his
hands before he did other things.
Bruce (07:53):
Like put my fingers in my mouth.
Yeah.
mark (07:55):
But somehow taste something with his finger or something.
And he ended up with kelobacker, uh, infection.
Now we don't know that.
We can't trace the pathogen.
No.
And he was very sick.
But he did recover.
And mostly you will recover.
But let's say if you're immunocompromised,if you have a specific sensitivity,
if you're older or younger, in factsome foodborne illnesses will require
(08:20):
a hospitalization, particularlysalmonella and Camp Lo back.
Bruce (08:25):
Yeah.
'cause they need to IV youand get fluids into you.
Mostly it's 'cause of dehydration andthat's, that's the most dangerous part
mark (08:30):
of those space.
And you know why you'redehydrated, moving up.
I wanna talk about enoughfood prod podcast, but you
know why you're dehydrated.
Okay?
So, uh, the, uh, a second step for thisis don't panic and don't eat the food.
If you know that something hasbeen recalled, just don't, I
don't know why people do this.
I don't know why they go ahead andeat what's there, but you, we have
(08:52):
a rule in our house, and I think youshould institute this rule in your
house, and that is, if it seems.
Like, you shouldn't eat it.
Don't eat it.
So, you know, I mean, if the eggs had beenin the refrigerator a month and the date
says they're still good, but you wouldeven question, oh gosh, should I, I mean,
these have been in my refrige a long time.
(09:14):
Don't.
Or if you open a jar of.
I don't know.
If you open a jar of jams and yousee something weird white or wiggle.
Bruce (09:22):
Or wiggling,
mark (09:23):
oh gosh, no, don't eat that.
But you see something even whiteon it and you think, well, maybe
that was, I'm not making this up.
Maybe that was marshmallow cream.
I don't know.
You were, one night you were desperatefor food and you were dipping a spoon
from marshmallow cream into jam.
I don't know.
But let's just say, and then
Bruce (09:37):
into insulin, let's just say
mark (09:38):
you were doing that.
Even if you see that and you're not quitesure what that is, please throw it out.
Yeah, please don't wait.
We just do not.
Eat anything that we're unsure of.
And I, I will say that we area little crazy about this.
We throw out leftovers probably beforewe should throw them out, but we don't
let them sit more than five days.
(10:00):
Well,
Bruce (10:01):
the six days the USDA says.
Four days and we push it.
And I know some people go aweek, some even go two weeks with
leftovers and they don't get sick.
And that's okay.
But we are not gonna do that.
And some people feel theyjust don't wanna waste it.
And because we did say in step onethat, you know, you're probably not
gonna get terribly sick, or maybe it wasjust the potential for contamination.
(10:23):
You know what, why take the risk.
That's what we say.
I don't feed it to your pets either.
No, no, no.
They may even have a moresensitive system than you do.
Pets can get food poisoning too.
That's so don't think that justbecause it's not fit for you to eat
means it's fit for your dog to eat.
mark (10:39):
Yeah.
No, don't, yeah.
No.
My favorite construction.
Yeah.
In English language.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
No, don't, uh, may I need that so much.
I can't believe I even said it.
Yeah, no, don't justfeed them to your pets.
And again, just always.
Err on the side of safety.
For example, I'll tellyou something about me.
This is a little bit in, in, uh, foodsafety and food recalls, but it's not
(11:00):
exactly something that's recalled.
But let's say I come to your house for apicnic and let's say it's a, you know, a
an all afternoon into the evening affair.
I don't know, it's just come asyou are, come whenever you want
to, and I arrive at five o'clock.
Let's pretend, and I knowthat that salami has.
Been sitting out on a picnic table in thesummer since noon when the party started.
(11:20):
I can almost guarantee you I won't eat it.
Mm-hmm.
I can almost guarantee you a passon it because I just am skied
out a little bit and it stops me.
And I'm not saying you arebeing unsafe and I'm not.
You might be, but I'm notsaying you're being unsafe.
And I'm not saying thatyou're doing anything wrong.
I'm just saying that it's my comfort.
Yeah.
And my comfort is no, thank you.
(11:41):
I, I don't, I don't want to eat that.
Bruce (11:43):
I feel the same way about.
Oysters that are presh.
Oh.
Oh no.
If I show up at a restaurant or a raw baror your house or a wedding and there's a
table of shucked, oysters and clams, no.
It has to be shuck to You wentto a wedding to order for me.
Yeah.
mark (11:59):
We went to a wedding long, long ago, and it was in the open
sunlight that they were standingaround shocking oysters, and it was.
Beating sun in the summer, beating down inthe afternoon on a table full of oysters.
And were those oysters sitting on ice?
Yes, they were, but the sunwas beating down on them.
Did I eat those oysters?
Mm-hmm.
No.
It was all about my own safety.
(12:19):
So don't panic.
Mm-hmm.
Don't eat the food and don't open
Bruce (12:24):
the food.
Yes.
Resist the temptation to even.
Open it and check it.
You know, some, most of the time youcan't see, smell or taste the bacteria or
viruses that might be causing the illness.
Yeah.
Let's stop there.
So what
mark (12:36):
do, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Sorry.
Let's just start there for one second.
Mm-hmm.
Let's say that Campylobacter, salmonella,and other bad food borne pathogens.
If they smell, if you smell somethingwith them in it, it is way beyond
the moment when it can make you sick,the moment when it can make you sick.
These things are odorless and tasteless.
(12:59):
Mm-hmm.
So remember you can'tsee, smell or taste them.
And if you can, it is way beyond themoment when you should eat this stuff.
Bruce (13:09):
Yeah.
And if you do open it because you just.
Had to see, and then you weresmart enough to decide, well,
oh no, I'm not going to eat it.
Make sure you wash your hands thoroughly.
You gotta wash 'em withsoap and warm water.
20 seconds.
You want to get everythingoff of it and throw it away.
Do not look.
What are you looking at it for?
mark (13:29):
Yeah.
I don't know.
And let me tell a storyabout this for a second.
Okay.
So almost every summer, Brucemakes kimchi from scratch.
And in fact, his kimchi recipe is.
In our new book, cold Canning for asmall batch of it, and it's refrigerator
kimchi, so it isn't, uh, fermentedat room temperature, which means
it's a really safe way to ferment it.
It takes longer to get thekimchi to get a bit of funkiness
(13:50):
and spiciness going with it.
The cabbage.
It does, but you can do it in the fridge.
Um, you know, Korean mothers aregonna say, no, you bury it, bury
it in the backyard, or put it outon your patio all winter long.
Korean mothers are gonnasay no, but you can do it.
Okay, so.
Bruce made a container, a bigcontainer, a big batch of kimchi.
I love it so much.
(14:11):
And you know, by August we openedthis container outta the back
refrigerator, and it smelled horrific.
It did not just smell funky.
It smelled rotty.
Oh, it was bad.
It was like the
Bruce (14:23):
septic system backed up, smell.
It was really gross.
He
mark (14:26):
threw it out.
And I told this story to a Korean friendlater and he chastised us for throwing it.
He said, oh, that's just it.
It's gotten really,really good by this one.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It, I'm sorry.
It, it steps over my boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
And I cannot do it.
So again, don't panic.
Don't eat the food, don't openit if you know how to recall.
(14:49):
And.
Bruce (14:50):
Check the recall notice to find out what you should do with the food.
We said throw it away,which is what we like to do.
But when a manufacturer recalls a foodproduct, they often give instructions
on what you should do with it.
Usually they'll indicateone or two things.
They'll say, return to the storewhere you bought it for a refund.
Right.
Or they will tell you to throw itaway and throw it away properly
(15:13):
so animals cannot eat it.
mark (15:15):
Yeah.
Especially as we have encroached onhabitats in suburban developments
and exurb developments.
We all know that thereare coyotes around there.
Are foxes around and my brotherlives in an expert outside of St.
Louis.
There are foxes in his neighborhood.
There are coyotes that runaround his neighborhood because
of course it's way out from St.
Louis.
(15:35):
And he, if you live in a place likethat, or if you live in a place as
we do way out in the New Englandwoods, you really cannot just.
Toss food scraps out into the woods.
Mm-hmm.
'cause animals will eatit and they'll get sick.
And you don't wanna kill offyour foxes because they're
taking care of your rodents.
Mm-hmm.
And your room, all those kind of problems.
Mm-hmm.
(15:55):
So you wanna keep those animalshealthy as you can, and you don't
want them to be accustomed to the factthat there's food around your house.
Bruce (16:02):
Oh no.
Then they'll be back all the time.
Don't throw
mark (16:04):
them out.
And I think that we should addhere, so we've got our four steps.
Don't panic, don't.
Eat the food, don't open thefood and check the recall notice
to find out what to do with it.
But I should also add here that we are bigadvocates of returning food to a store,
not even if it's necessarily recalled.
Bruce (16:21):
Mm-hmm.
We
mark (16:22):
have returned much food to stores.
We have con back with the receiptand ask for the money back, and
I think this is really important.
So you open a jar ofsomething and you think, wow.
Gosh, that seems funky or thatseems discolored or open a jar
of pickles and it's suddenly gotthis brown liquid on top of it.
(16:43):
And you think I'm, uh,uh, should I eat that?
The answer is no.
And furthermore, take your receiptand take it back to the store.
That's right.
And take it.
Stores aint no, this is not good.
Bruce (16:52):
And you know, a lot of stores even have policies where they will double
your money back if you are unsatisfied.
I know our local supermarket,they're always having announcements
as I'm shopping, is like we arecommitted to your happiness.
And if you're not satisfied withany food that you get home, we.
We'll double your money back.
And I have brought back meat that I haveopened packages and it has smelled bad.
(17:14):
I have brought back bottles of oil thatI've opened and they've been rancid right?
Stores are very happy togive you your money back and
keep you as a happy customer.
mark (17:24):
There's a, a high end grocery store about 30 minutes away from us.
It's a small gourmet grocery store.
And years ago, Bruce bought.
Lamb shanks from the store and hegot them home and he opened the
package and it smelled rotted.
It smelled horrible.
And yes, lamb does have a strong smell,but this wasn't just the lamb smell.
(17:44):
This seemed more so he packaged itback up and brought, you know, I
mean, they're expensive lamb shanks.
And he brought it back tothe store and the guy's like.
I'm happy to butcher, said, I'm happyto give you your money back, but I
don't want those, like, take those away.
You didn't need to bringthose in and prove it to me.
He's like, I'll justgive you your money back.
Uh, I don't need to see those.
Now, I will admit that Bruce isan, um, what a repeat customer.
(18:07):
Mm-hmm.
At this store, a knownquantity at this store.
So he's not just some rando comingin and returning the packaged meat,
but still, nonetheless, the guy'slike, don't bring that into my store.
What am I supposed to?
Do with it.
Just throw it out and I'llgive you your money back.
Bruce (18:19):
If you run into this problem, my suggestion is call the store first.
Ask to speak to the butcher counteror the, the fish counter and tell them
you were just in, you just bought this.
It is not good.
What would they like you to do?
You want your money back, butshould you bring it back or not?
mark (18:34):
And this seems like a real, sorry, I was stepping on you, but this
seems like a really big problem inhigh-end grocery stores with cheese
anymore because, uh, a lot of them.
Cut cheese into wedges or into pieces,and then put it under cellophane.
Right.
And sell just the wedge becausenobody wants to buy the whole wheel.
Yep.
Or the whole piece.
And um, unfortunately, what happens isthat cheese goes rancid over a while,
(18:54):
and if you open that package and youdetect the slightest amount of ammonia.
In the odor, seal it back up andask for your money back because
that cheese is not to be eaten.
Mm-hmm.
And remember the softer the cheese, thefaster the mold goes through the cheese.
(19:15):
Yes.
You can cut.
Mold off of hard, hard cheeseslike really aged parmigiano
riano, or really aged o asiago.
You can cut down, oh, I don't know, abouthalf an inch or a centimeter below the
mold and take it off and throw it out.
But anything softer than that,remember those little, uh, what do
(19:35):
they call the mycelium networks?
The spores, the myceliumnetworks are, yeah, are going
down through the cheese fast.
So if it's breed, ifit's a soft cheese, no.
If it has the slightest ammonia, odor, no.
Bruce (19:49):
Throw it out.
Get your money back.
That is the key.
We are going to emphasizethat again and again.
Follow those steps.
Don't panic, don't eat the food.
Don't even open the food.
Check how the manufacturerwants you to dispose of it.
Get your money back if the food is bad.
mark (20:06):
Just to remind you, we have a new book coming up this summer called Canning.
It is a small batch canningbook in which you can make two
or three jars of this or that.
Everything from mustards to barbecuesauces to jams, to preserves to,
I don't know, chutney, conserves,sauerkrauts, SALs salsa, matcha
chili crisp saut dessert toppings.
Dessert top.
(20:26):
Yeah, dessert top.
And even get this because we expandedthe thing to mean anything that
can be set back and preserved soyou can make your own Triple Sec.
Mm-hmm.
And your own sham board,your own raspberry liqueur.
We've got 425 recipes in this giant.
Super colorful, well photographed book.
Check out cold canning for thissummer to put away the things that
(20:50):
will make you happy in your futurefreezer for a few months and not make
enough to survive the apocalypse.
Okay, our final segment of thepodcast, as is usual, what's
making us happy in food this week
Bruce (21:06):
For me, it's vegan chili.
For those of you who don't know, markruns a number of book groups and teaches
lit classes and libraries all over theBerkshires and Western Connecticut.
I do, and he's been running the NorfolkLibrary Book group for 15 years.
mark (21:24):
Fifth.
15 years as of this week, how many books?
192 books read in 15 years.
Bruce (21:32):
We had a celebration at the library and our house for Mark this
past weekend to celebrate 15 years.
192 books.
Mm.
And we had 30 people here, andI made three kinds of chili
and one of them was the vegan.
Chili, the ultimate vegan chili from ourInstant Pot Bible, and it is so delicious.
It is.
(21:52):
So
mark (21:53):
it is what I ate.
Bruce had a beef chili anda Turkey chili and a vegan
chili, and I ate a vegan chili.
And I can't tell you how manypeople participate in this group.
This group now meets solely online.
It went online with the pandemicand then it picked up an
international clientele for me.
Mm-hmm.
The UK and Ireland andEurope and even Macau.
And it.
Picked up this big internationalclientele of met readers.
(22:14):
And so there were some people therefrom far away even who came mm-hmm.
To this celebration.
And, um, I, so many people stoppedme and said, are you a vegan?
I was like, no, no, I'm not.
But I really liked the vegan chili
Bruce (22:26):
and as good as the vegan chili was though, there was leftover of that.
What there wasn't leftoverwas my Beef Mole chili.
The beef mole was inhaled and decimate
mark (22:36):
another recipe from one of our books, right?
Bruce (22:38):
Yeah.
That was from our Great Americanslow cooker book, and I diced up
five pounds of chuck and it was threekinds of dried chilies and cinnamon
and sesame seeds and raisins andcocoa, and I didn't have any of that.
I had vegan.
I went
mark (22:52):
leaving it and I didn't go vegan for the dessert because what's made
me happening through this week isone of the two cakes that Bruce made.
It's a sheet cake from ourbook sheet cakes and slab pies.
Yes, we do make our own recipes,and this was a snicker doodle cake.
So imagine a cake in a sheet panthat tastes like a snicker doodle.
Cookie.
Mm.
Then this is not in the book.
(23:14):
This is Bruce's now what Renovation?
Mm-hmm.
Of the snickerdoodle cake.
Mm-hmm.
So there's a snickerdoodle cake, andthen he covered it with lemon curd and
then made a marshmallowy Italian meringueto spread on top of that and browned
Bruce (23:28):
it with a blood George.
mark (23:29):
Yeah, so it's like a meringue with lemon curd on this
snicker doodle tasting cake.
It was amazing.
It was amazing.
People took home plates of it, madeit, it was sheep cake after all.
It made a billion pieces.
People took home plates of it.
They kept saying, oh,this is my breakfast.
So it also made me very happy.
Okay, that's the podcast this week.
Thank you for being with us.
We appreciate your supportin this very crowded podcast
(23:52):
landscape, and we appreciate yourtaking the time to be with us
Bruce (23:56):
and every week.
We tell you what'smaking us happy in food.
So please go to our Facebookgroup Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Tell us there what's makingyou happy in food this week.
'cause we want to know and when reallyinteresting and sound really fabulous.
We are talking about it hereon cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast Cooking with
mark (00:03):
Bruce and Martin.
And I'm Mark Scarborough.
And together with Bruce, we havewritten three dozen plus wine
cookbooks we're about to publish.
If you're listening to this inreal time, we're about to publish
our 37th cookbook called Canning.
It's out in just a month or so.
If again, in real time, I knowpodcasts don't exist in real time, but.
They exist in a quantum realitywhere you can hear it at any
(00:25):
moment, but okay, in real time, coldcanning comes out in about a month.
Small batch, no steam or pressure canner.
Two or three jars of your favoritethings, chili, crisp salsa, matcha
jams, conserves preserves, ketchups,mustards, barbecue, sauces, the whole.
Oh, where do you see the book?
It is really beautiful, isn't it?
It's
Bruce (00:46):
beautiful.
mark (00:46):
Okay, so anyway, to get to what we're doing this week, we've
got as usual, a one minute cookingtip, which isn't really a tip.
We'll explain that.
We're gonna talk about food safetyrecalls, and we'll tell you what's
making us happy in food this week.
So let's get started.
Bruce (01:04):
Our one minute cooking tip, or.
Rather than a tip.
This week, we wanna share some ofwhat you all have shared recently
on what's making you happy in food.
This week.
We ask you to do that at ourFacebook group quickly with Bruce
and Mark, and you have, mm-hmm.
So this past week, somebody said theyhad nice fat asparagus and lamb chops.
Mm-hmm.
(01:24):
We love that combination.
Mm-hmm.
We eat lamb chops atasparagus all the time.
We just had that combination,
mark (01:29):
didn't we?
Not, not so long ago.
We had asparagus, we found.
Uh, asparagus.
Where'd we find
Bruce (01:35):
it?
Our friend Jay, let us pick it.
I went to his garden to pick rhubarb,and while I was there he said,
help yourself to the asparagus.
You know, I didn't know that.
Asparagus travels in a garden.
So you plant it one placeand it starts popping up.
There's nothing likefresh asparagus, right?
It has a taste that's like,doesn't taste like supermarket.
And it's not woody.
It's not stringy.
mark (01:54):
No.
No.
And you found, we found lambchops at Costco recently.
Love their lamb.
So we had lamb chops on the grill with.
Asparagus value.
Somebody else wrote in and talkedabout strawberry rhubarb skier.
If you don't know, skieris an Icelandic yogurt.
It's usually low fat,sometimes it's even fat free.
I think Iceland though, they pourcream over the top of it, which
(02:14):
returns it to its natural steak.
But anyway, somebody foundstrawberry rhubarb skier.
Doesn't that sound delicious?
Amazing.
Bruce (02:22):
I want to try that.
And then the third person that wewanted to call out said they had
something called garlic breath pizza.
Oh my gosh.
And they loved it.
I can imagine that would be delicious.
Garlic
mark (02:32):
breath.
Bruce (02:33):
Yeah, that would be delicious.
Not bread, no breath.
That would be delicious to eat.
But I don't wanna be aroundyou when you're done.
mark (02:39):
I don't either.
There's a pizza joint nearus in rural New England.
It's a beautiful place with a beautifulpizza oven and they make various white
pizzas, which are heavily garlic.
And I have to say that they're too garlicthere for me, so I don't know what.
Garlic breath pizza would be like, butholy crow, that'd be a lot of garlic.
Okay, before we get into the food safetyrecall that we were gonna talk about,
(03:04):
or the many food safety recalls we'regonna talk about, let's say that it would
be great if you could subscribe to thispodcast and it would be great if you
could rate it, give it a five star rating.
Can I ask for that?
And better yet, if you could writea small review, even like just
great podcast or Nice to hearyou, something as simple as that.
It keeps the podcast fresh inthe algorithms because we are.
Otherwise unsupported.
(03:25):
So thanks for doing that.
Alright, let's talk aboutfood safety recalls.
Bruce (03:34):
If you paid attention to the news recently, you know that Costco
of all places just did a recall of.
Topo Chico Mineral water.
Oh, one of your favoritethings, Topo Chico.
I do.
And these is the mineralwater in glass bottles.
And they recalled them because it'sdue to a possible contamination with
pseudomonas, which is a bacteria foundnaturally in water sources and it can
(03:58):
cause an infection, especially if youhave a compromised immune system or
you know, you're not well in general.
Mm-hmm.
Also a number of ready-madesandwiches at Costco.
mark (04:10):
Whoops.
Oh wow.
There have been a lot of recalls recentlyand uh, I don't wanna get political
about this, but as you know, it'sbecome tougher to find those recalls
because some of the information has beendeleted from US government websites.
We're talking about US foodrecalls, by the way, here.
Not just Canadian orEuropean, but these are us.
And as you know, that informationhas become tougher to source.
(04:33):
You can find it.
Easily, and there are ways to do this frommanufacturers, if you will do a keyword
search for food recall or just recall.
If you do that in Instagram or inTikTok, you can find manufacturers
who are announcing their recalls
Bruce (04:52):
and recalls aren't.
Only because of contaminationfrom bad things.
You know, there are nine major foodallergens that are identified by the
FDA in the US and these are, you know,things we all eat and drink every day.
Eggs, milk, wheat, fish, soybeans.
The sesame seeds, treenuts, peanuts, shellfish.
(05:15):
And if any of these allergens are in afood, it must be labeled on the package.
And sometimes if that labelingisn't done, a recall is done.
mark (05:24):
Yeah.
And it's not always labeled.
And let me say that we'velearned this over the years from
writing cookbooks, for example.
Um.
Oats are not always labeled thatthey may contain wheat protein.
Now you might say, what does wheatprotein have to do with oats?
The problem is that most oats areprocessed in facilities that also process
(05:47):
wheat, and there is some residual wheat.
Dust, no matter how hardthey clean the facility.
So they're not required to saythis on a packaging of oats
that there may be wheat residue.
And if you have an issue with wheat, andparticularly if you have celiac, then
you want to make sure you get certifiedfree oats and these are made then.
(06:12):
In a facility, they're processedin a facility that assures you
that they do not process wheatin any way along with those oats.
Just look for those labelsif that's important to you.
Bruce (06:25):
So here's what happens.
Food recalls come out and people food out.
So we wanna give you, youknow, four steps to take.
If you see there's been a food recall.
Okay?
And the first one is.
Don't panic.
No, don't panic, right?
I mean, there's no need to panic.
Most food recalls are really notassociated with foodborne illnesses,
(06:46):
right to begin with, right?
As we said, it could be as simple asa food allergen and many recalls are
issued just because there's a potential.
For the food to be contaminated
mark (06:55):
and also don't panic because if you are an otherwise healthy
person, you will most likely survivea foodborne illness outbreak.
Now, there are some foodborne illnessesthat in fact require hospitalization,
but by and large, even a campylobacteror a salmonella contamination.
(07:17):
You will most likely notguaranteed, but most likely survive.
You will be very sick.
Bruce (07:24):
I was, I had such an infection.
You did from foodborne illness youdid a couple of months ago and yes,
I was sick for about 12 days, but Irecovered and I'm feeling fabulous
and nothing terrible happened to me.
We never found out what it.
Was that I ate, we made an
mark (07:38):
assumption.
Bruce (07:38):
Yeah,
mark (07:39):
there's, we made an assumption.
It was Ca Bruce said, camp Loob backer.
If you listen to our podcast,you probably know that.
And we think it was from, uh, chicken.
And we think he was skinning chickenthighs and did not properly wash his
hands before he did other things.
Bruce (07:53):
Like put my fingers in my mouth.
Yeah.
mark (07:55):
But somehow taste something with his finger or something.
And he ended up with kelobacker, uh, infection.
Now we don't know that.
We can't trace the pathogen.
No.
And he was very sick.
But he did recover.
And mostly you will recover.
But let's say if you're immunocompromised,if you have a specific sensitivity,
if you're older or younger, in factsome foodborne illnesses will require
(08:20):
a hospitalization, particularlysalmonella and Camp Lo back.
Bruce (08:25):
Yeah.
'cause they need to IV youand get fluids into you.
Mostly it's 'cause of dehydration andthat's, that's the most dangerous part
mark (08:30):
of those space.
And you know why you'redehydrated, moving up.
I wanna talk about enoughfood prod podcast, but you
know why you're dehydrated.
Okay?
So, uh, the, uh, a second step for thisis don't panic and don't eat the food.
If you know that something hasbeen recalled, just don't, I
don't know why people do this.
I don't know why they go ahead andeat what's there, but you, we have
(08:52):
a rule in our house, and I think youshould institute this rule in your
house, and that is, if it seems.
Like, you shouldn't eat it.
Don't eat it.
So, you know, I mean, if the eggs had beenin the refrigerator a month and the date
says they're still good, but you wouldeven question, oh gosh, should I, I mean,
these have been in my refrige a long time.
(09:14):
Don't.
Or if you open a jar of.
I don't know.
If you open a jar of jams and yousee something weird white or wiggle.
Bruce (09:22):
Or wiggling,
mark (09:23):
oh gosh, no, don't eat that.
But you see something even whiteon it and you think, well, maybe
that was, I'm not making this up.
Maybe that was marshmallow cream.
I don't know.
You were, one night you were desperatefor food and you were dipping a spoon
from marshmallow cream into jam.
I don't know.
But let's just say, and then
Bruce (09:37):
into insulin, let's just say
mark (09:38):
you were doing that.
Even if you see that and you're not quitesure what that is, please throw it out.
Yeah, please don't wait.
We just do not.
Eat anything that we're unsure of.
And I, I will say that we area little crazy about this.
We throw out leftovers probably beforewe should throw them out, but we don't
let them sit more than five days.
(10:00):
Well,
Bruce (10:01):
the six days the USDA says.
Four days and we push it.
And I know some people go aweek, some even go two weeks with
leftovers and they don't get sick.
And that's okay.
But we are not gonna do that.
And some people feel theyjust don't wanna waste it.
And because we did say in step onethat, you know, you're probably not
gonna get terribly sick, or maybe it wasjust the potential for contamination.
(10:23):
You know what, why take the risk.
That's what we say.
I don't feed it to your pets either.
No, no, no.
They may even have a moresensitive system than you do.
Pets can get food poisoning too.
That's so don't think that justbecause it's not fit for you to eat
means it's fit for your dog to eat.
mark (10:39):
Yeah.
No, don't, yeah.
No.
My favorite construction.
Yeah.
In English language.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
No, don't, uh, may I need that so much.
I can't believe I even said it.
Yeah, no, don't justfeed them to your pets.
And again, just always.
Err on the side of safety.
For example, I'll tellyou something about me.
This is a little bit in, in, uh, foodsafety and food recalls, but it's not
(11:00):
exactly something that's recalled.
But let's say I come to your house for apicnic and let's say it's a, you know, a
an all afternoon into the evening affair.
I don't know, it's just come asyou are, come whenever you want
to, and I arrive at five o'clock.
Let's pretend, and I knowthat that salami has.
Been sitting out on a picnic table in thesummer since noon when the party started.
(11:20):
I can almost guarantee you I won't eat it.
Mm-hmm.
I can almost guarantee you a passon it because I just am skied
out a little bit and it stops me.
And I'm not saying you arebeing unsafe and I'm not.
You might be, but I'm notsaying you're being unsafe.
And I'm not saying thatyou're doing anything wrong.
I'm just saying that it's my comfort.
Yeah.
And my comfort is no, thank you.
(11:41):
I, I don't, I don't want to eat that.
Bruce (11:43):
I feel the same way about.
Oysters that are presh.
Oh.
Oh no.
If I show up at a restaurant or a raw baror your house or a wedding and there's a
table of shucked, oysters and clams, no.
It has to be shuck to You wentto a wedding to order for me.
Yeah.
mark (11:59):
We went to a wedding long, long ago, and it was in the open
sunlight that they were standingaround shocking oysters, and it was.
Beating sun in the summer, beating down inthe afternoon on a table full of oysters.
And were those oysters sitting on ice?
Yes, they were, but the sunwas beating down on them.
Did I eat those oysters?
Mm-hmm.
No.
It was all about my own safety.
(12:19):
So don't panic.
Mm-hmm.
Don't eat the food and don't open
Bruce (12:24):
the food.
Yes.
Resist the temptation to even.
Open it and check it.
You know, some, most of the time youcan't see, smell or taste the bacteria or
viruses that might be causing the illness.
Yeah.
Let's stop there.
So what
mark (12:36):
do, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Sorry.
Let's just start there for one second.
Mm-hmm.
Let's say that Campylobacter, salmonella,and other bad food borne pathogens.
If they smell, if you smell somethingwith them in it, it is way beyond
the moment when it can make you sick,the moment when it can make you sick.
These things are odorless and tasteless.
(12:59):
Mm-hmm.
So remember you can'tsee, smell or taste them.
And if you can, it is way beyond themoment when you should eat this stuff.
Bruce (13:09):
Yeah.
And if you do open it because you just.
Had to see, and then you weresmart enough to decide, well,
oh no, I'm not going to eat it.
Make sure you wash your hands thoroughly.
You gotta wash 'em withsoap and warm water.
20 seconds.
You want to get everythingoff of it and throw it away.
Do not look.
What are you looking at it for?
mark (13:29):
Yeah.
I don't know.
And let me tell a storyabout this for a second.
Okay.
So almost every summer, Brucemakes kimchi from scratch.
And in fact, his kimchi recipe is.
In our new book, cold Canning for asmall batch of it, and it's refrigerator
kimchi, so it isn't, uh, fermentedat room temperature, which means
it's a really safe way to ferment it.
It takes longer to get thekimchi to get a bit of funkiness
(13:50):
and spiciness going with it.
The cabbage.
It does, but you can do it in the fridge.
Um, you know, Korean mothers aregonna say, no, you bury it, bury
it in the backyard, or put it outon your patio all winter long.
Korean mothers are gonnasay no, but you can do it.
Okay, so.
Bruce made a container, a bigcontainer, a big batch of kimchi.
I love it so much.
(14:11):
And you know, by August we openedthis container outta the back
refrigerator, and it smelled horrific.
It did not just smell funky.
It smelled rotty.
Oh, it was bad.
It was like the
Bruce (14:23):
septic system backed up, smell.
It was really gross.
He
mark (14:26):
threw it out.
And I told this story to a Korean friendlater and he chastised us for throwing it.
He said, oh, that's just it.
It's gotten really,really good by this one.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It, I'm sorry.
It, it steps over my boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
And I cannot do it.
So again, don't panic.
Don't eat the food, don't openit if you know how to recall.
(14:49):
And.
Bruce (14:50):
Check the recall notice to find out what you should do with the food.
We said throw it away,which is what we like to do.
But when a manufacturer recalls a foodproduct, they often give instructions
on what you should do with it.
Usually they'll indicateone or two things.
They'll say, return to the storewhere you bought it for a refund.
Right.
Or they will tell you to throw itaway and throw it away properly
(15:13):
so animals cannot eat it.
mark (15:15):
Yeah.
Especially as we have encroached onhabitats in suburban developments
and exurb developments.
We all know that thereare coyotes around there.
Are foxes around and my brotherlives in an expert outside of St.
Louis.
There are foxes in his neighborhood.
There are coyotes that runaround his neighborhood because
of course it's way out from St.
Louis.
(15:35):
And he, if you live in a place likethat, or if you live in a place as
we do way out in the New Englandwoods, you really cannot just.
Toss food scraps out into the woods.
Mm-hmm.
'cause animals will eatit and they'll get sick.
And you don't wanna kill offyour foxes because they're
taking care of your rodents.
Mm-hmm.
And your room, all those kind of problems.
Mm-hmm.
(15:55):
So you wanna keep those animalshealthy as you can, and you don't
want them to be accustomed to the factthat there's food around your house.
Bruce (16:02):
Oh no.
Then they'll be back all the time.
Don't throw
mark (16:04):
them out.
And I think that we should addhere, so we've got our four steps.
Don't panic, don't.
Eat the food, don't open thefood and check the recall notice
to find out what to do with it.
But I should also add here that we are bigadvocates of returning food to a store,
not even if it's necessarily recalled.
Bruce (16:21):
Mm-hmm.
We
mark (16:22):
have returned much food to stores.
We have con back with the receiptand ask for the money back, and
I think this is really important.
So you open a jar ofsomething and you think, wow.
Gosh, that seems funky or thatseems discolored or open a jar
of pickles and it's suddenly gotthis brown liquid on top of it.
(16:43):
And you think I'm, uh,uh, should I eat that?
The answer is no.
And furthermore, take your receiptand take it back to the store.
That's right.
And take it.
Stores aint no, this is not good.
Bruce (16:52):
And you know, a lot of stores even have policies where they will double
your money back if you are unsatisfied.
I know our local supermarket,they're always having announcements
as I'm shopping, is like we arecommitted to your happiness.
And if you're not satisfied withany food that you get home, we.
We'll double your money back.
And I have brought back meat that I haveopened packages and it has smelled bad.
(17:14):
I have brought back bottles of oil thatI've opened and they've been rancid right?
Stores are very happy togive you your money back and
keep you as a happy customer.
mark (17:24):
There's a, a high end grocery store about 30 minutes away from us.
It's a small gourmet grocery store.
And years ago, Bruce bought.
Lamb shanks from the store and hegot them home and he opened the
package and it smelled rotted.
It smelled horrible.
And yes, lamb does have a strong smell,but this wasn't just the lamb smell.
(17:44):
This seemed more so he packaged itback up and brought, you know, I
mean, they're expensive lamb shanks.
And he brought it back tothe store and the guy's like.
I'm happy to butcher, said, I'm happyto give you your money back, but I
don't want those, like, take those away.
You didn't need to bringthose in and prove it to me.
He's like, I'll justgive you your money back.
Uh, I don't need to see those.
Now, I will admit that Bruce isan, um, what a repeat customer.
(18:07):
Mm-hmm.
At this store, a knownquantity at this store.
So he's not just some rando comingin and returning the packaged meat,
but still, nonetheless, the guy'slike, don't bring that into my store.
What am I supposed to?
Do with it.
Just throw it out and I'llgive you your money back.
Bruce (18:19):
If you run into this problem, my suggestion is call the store first.
Ask to speak to the butcher counteror the, the fish counter and tell them
you were just in, you just bought this.
It is not good.
What would they like you to do?
You want your money back, butshould you bring it back or not?
mark (18:34):
And this seems like a real, sorry, I was stepping on you, but this
seems like a really big problem inhigh-end grocery stores with cheese
anymore because, uh, a lot of them.
Cut cheese into wedges or into pieces,and then put it under cellophane.
Right.
And sell just the wedge becausenobody wants to buy the whole wheel.
Yep.
Or the whole piece.
And um, unfortunately, what happens isthat cheese goes rancid over a while,
(18:54):
and if you open that package and youdetect the slightest amount of ammonia.
In the odor, seal it back up andask for your money back because
that cheese is not to be eaten.
Mm-hmm.
And remember the softer the cheese, thefaster the mold goes through the cheese.
(19:15):
Yes.
You can cut.
Mold off of hard, hard cheeseslike really aged parmigiano
riano, or really aged o asiago.
You can cut down, oh, I don't know, abouthalf an inch or a centimeter below the
mold and take it off and throw it out.
But anything softer than that,remember those little, uh, what do
(19:35):
they call the mycelium networks?
The spores, the myceliumnetworks are, yeah, are going
down through the cheese fast.
So if it's breed, ifit's a soft cheese, no.
If it has the slightest ammonia, odor, no.
Bruce (19:49):
Throw it out.
Get your money back.
That is the key.
We are going to emphasizethat again and again.
Follow those steps.
Don't panic, don't eat the food.
Don't even open the food.
Check how the manufacturerwants you to dispose of it.
Get your money back if the food is bad.
mark (20:06):
Just to remind you, we have a new book coming up this summer called Canning.
It is a small batch canningbook in which you can make two
or three jars of this or that.
Everything from mustards to barbecuesauces to jams, to preserves to,
I don't know, chutney, conserves,sauerkrauts, SALs salsa, matcha
chili crisp saut dessert toppings.
Dessert top.
(20:26):
Yeah, dessert top.
And even get this because we expandedthe thing to mean anything that
can be set back and preserved soyou can make your own Triple Sec.
Mm-hmm.
And your own sham board,your own raspberry liqueur.
We've got 425 recipes in this giant.
Super colorful, well photographed book.
Check out cold canning for thissummer to put away the things that
(20:50):
will make you happy in your futurefreezer for a few months and not make
enough to survive the apocalypse.
Okay, our final segment of thepodcast, as is usual, what's
making us happy in food this week
Bruce (21:06):
For me, it's vegan chili.
For those of you who don't know, markruns a number of book groups and teaches
lit classes and libraries all over theBerkshires and Western Connecticut.
I do, and he's been running the NorfolkLibrary Book group for 15 years.
mark (21:24):
Fifth.
15 years as of this week, how many books?
192 books read in 15 years.
Bruce (21:32):
We had a celebration at the library and our house for Mark this
past weekend to celebrate 15 years.
192 books.
Mm.
And we had 30 people here, andI made three kinds of chili
and one of them was the vegan.
Chili, the ultimate vegan chili from ourInstant Pot Bible, and it is so delicious.
It is.
(21:52):
So
mark (21:53):
it is what I ate.
Bruce had a beef chili anda Turkey chili and a vegan
chili, and I ate a vegan chili.
And I can't tell you how manypeople participate in this group.
This group now meets solely online.
It went online with the pandemicand then it picked up an
international clientele for me.
Mm-hmm.
The UK and Ireland andEurope and even Macau.
And it.
Picked up this big internationalclientele of met readers.
(22:14):
And so there were some people therefrom far away even who came mm-hmm.
To this celebration.
And, um, I, so many people stoppedme and said, are you a vegan?
I was like, no, no, I'm not.
But I really liked the vegan chili
Bruce (22:26):
and as good as the vegan chili was though, there was leftover of that.
What there wasn't leftoverwas my Beef Mole chili.
The beef mole was inhaled and decimate
mark (22:36):
another recipe from one of our books, right?
Bruce (22:38):
Yeah.
That was from our Great Americanslow cooker book, and I diced up
five pounds of chuck and it was threekinds of dried chilies and cinnamon
and sesame seeds and raisins andcocoa, and I didn't have any of that.
I had vegan.
I went
mark (22:52):
leaving it and I didn't go vegan for the dessert because what's made
me happening through this week isone of the two cakes that Bruce made.
It's a sheet cake from ourbook sheet cakes and slab pies.
Yes, we do make our own recipes,and this was a snicker doodle cake.
So imagine a cake in a sheet panthat tastes like a snicker doodle.
Cookie.
Mm.
Then this is not in the book.
(23:14):
This is Bruce's now what Renovation?
Mm-hmm.
Of the snickerdoodle cake.
Mm-hmm.
So there's a snickerdoodle cake, andthen he covered it with lemon curd and
then made a marshmallowy Italian meringueto spread on top of that and browned
Bruce (23:28):
it with a blood George.
mark (23:29):
Yeah, so it's like a meringue with lemon curd on this
snicker doodle tasting cake.
It was amazing.
It was amazing.
People took home plates of it, madeit, it was sheep cake after all.
It made a billion pieces.
People took home plates of it.
They kept saying, oh,this is my breakfast.
So it also made me very happy.
Okay, that's the podcast this week.
Thank you for being with us.
We appreciate your supportin this very crowded podcast
(23:52):
landscape, and we appreciate yourtaking the time to be with us
Bruce (23:56):
and every week.
We tell you what'smaking us happy in food.
So please go to our Facebookgroup Cooking with Bruce and Mark.
Tell us there what's makingyou happy in food this week.
'cause we want to know and when reallyinteresting and sound really fabulous.
We are talking about it hereon cooking with Bruce and Mark.
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