Episode 226 | Ben Gayah

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In this week's episode, we sit with legendary sculptor and visual artist Ben Gayah — joined by his wife Janine — for a powerful conversation on art, legacy, and love. Ben shares how he got started as an artist, the challenges of making it in Trinidad and Tobago, and the stories behind his massive sculptures at St. Mary’s Fete and the mural on the Parliament building. With Janine adding her own insights and perspective, this episode offers a rare, intimate look at the life and work of one of the country’s most impactful creatives.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
So, listen, as a Fatima man, I have a guest today
that I have been complainingabout for a long, long time,
because them fellas are doingsome things in a fit for a
school that we shall leaveunnamed.
At least I will try not to callit name as much as possible,
but it make me go fat In my fit.
I can play as I come back andsay well, what are we really
doing?
Why are we doing this?
We're looking bad compared to aschool who we're much, much

(00:38):
more superior than so.
The guests I have with me today.
Well, first let me introduceJanine.
This is the first off-cameraguest I have with me.
Hi, janine, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:45):
You're good.
Yes, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
So I bring in there's half of the team responsible
for the Wasting Marys.
I try not to say the name, Itry and fail miserably.
And I have with me Janine andBen Geyer.
How are you going, sir?
Tell me the name of the companyagain.
It's Creator Design, CreatorDesign.
So everybody knows him as BenGeyer.

(01:07):
He's struggling to get peopleto say the name Creator Design,
so we keep with it throughout.
I will say that it is usuallyvery impressive when you drive
past St Mary's Grounds whenyou're in setup mode Not that I
will ever go there, but it'ssomething else to see the
buildup for it and I wonder howmuch work that really is for you
and when that work starts.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Boy, it's something else.
It usually starts four monthsbefore, but if you ask me, it
should start way before.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Four months, yeah, four months, and you think, even
before that would be better.
Yeah because we're alwaysrushing.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's always end up a madrush to get everything completed
in time, but you know we workwith budgets, right?
So we can't say, okay, we'regoing to use the whole year to
produce something like this, butif you look at it, it looks
like a complete year production.
What was the theme this year?
This year was a futuristic city, like a smart city, right.

(02:04):
Every year we've been doingrustic and underwater and it was
like you know what, why notchange it up?
Let's go into the future.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Gotcha, so you're all involved in the creation of the
concept as well, or is it that?

Speaker 3 (02:16):
big committee From start to finish, from the
beginning, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
So you're a St Mary's man too.
What school are you in?
What school?

Speaker 3 (02:21):
are you in?
No, I'm actually a SoutheastPort of Spain guy.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I'm so glad to hear that.
I'm so glad to hear that StMary's always need outside help
to get where they're going toget to.
Let me do the bad talking.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
St Mary's right, you know how to bad talk them too.
No, no, no, I come from Port ofSpain.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, you went to school in Southeast and
originally from Port of Spain.
You're a Marvel, yeah, yeahyeah, yeah, of course.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
So in terms of creativity, I mean, I used to
always love art.
In school I met an art teacherin Southeast Dennis Seaton I
could call his name Cool guyShowed me a little bit about
colors and mixing paints and soforth, and then I started doing
sculpting and then falling inlove with art.

(03:01):
It's like painting becomeshistory.
I used to paint, I used to doportraits, landscapes, right,
and every time I'd do it itwould go to the gallery.
It'll be sell, you know, mostof the time like a foreigner
would purchase my work and Ialways wanted to do exhibition.
Just never get to that, okay.
But then I got introduced tostyrofoam, okay, and started

(03:24):
carving and sculpting andshaping stuff and you know,
everything else was history.
You know, I started workingwith a leading company at the
time where decorating isconcerned and they were
dominating the market.
So I was like the main guy, youknow, helping putting things
together.
And then I realized, you know,I could do so much more than

(03:46):
just decorating draping clothes.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
So decor was like home decor and office and stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Well, no it was like weddings and functions, you know
, award ceremonies, that kind ofthing.
And I realized, you know, Imean it has so much of
decorators out there competingagainst each other and nobody
building stuff.
So I was like you know what,let's give this thing a try, you
know, and I just startedcreating and building stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
What age is that this was like about?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
25, 24, 25, give or take.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
If you could see?
It's Janine looking out to findout the answers right.
We're getting our verificationnod here, so it's around 25,
right?

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yes us.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Right, we're getting our verification not here, so
it's around 25, right, yes, buthow do you, how do you realize,
uh, that that is something thatpeople need in terms of building
stuff, because I mean thecompanies that work for they
always wanted stuff.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
So they would go and try and rent this and rent this
and it can't get, and then we'llhave to build it in-house.
You know, if you want, let'ssay, a stargate opening, you
can't go and get that anyway, sowe have to produce this thing.
And then other decorators, theywould be fumbling to get this
and get that.
I was like, oh okay, there's aniche for making stuff, gotcha,
you know, and supplyingeverybody.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
So we decided you know what we're going to give
this a try, and that is when youstarted the company.
Yeah, or as it was.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, that is when creative design kicked off and
we started building and thenpeople recognized, hey, we could
get this from this man, andjust approach me and then, yeah,
you want this for a wedding,you want this for functions and
so forth Even the companies Iworked for.
Up to this day he still asks mefor stuff.
He'd come to me and say, Ben,we want this and that.

(05:24):
And I was like I stillproducing stuff 20 something
years after for him so from thatcompany.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
I guess you would get a lot of work through companies
like those agencies and thosetypes of things as well a lot of
agencies call um.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
It all depends again on their budget and what they're
looking for and that kind ofthing.
But plenty of the work it'scome through uh, more decorating
companies, you know, designingcompanies and that kind of thing
but you refer to it as propdesign prop design.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, yeah, prop engineering yeah, let me ask you
about that engineering part onetime, because some of the sizes
of structures I see on stmary's grounds, what's the
situation of the engineer?
You know that right.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Well, again, that came with time.
You know, back then we used todo things a lot smaller.
Right now, you know, the scalehas changed.
Everybody wants it big.
So, yes, it did come with a bitof engineering.
I didn't do engineering inschool but everything was like
you know, learning differentthings, because I mean you put

(06:18):
something together, you know howit works right.
The one time you use it it'slike, hey, how to improve this?
You know the wind is not doing,you know the sun, the weather,
the elements out there.
So then you recognize, okay,you can improve.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
And then you just start improving and improving,
and improving yeah, yeah, Ithink it's a lot of years
experience you're talking aboutin getting this done.
Oh, yeah, yeah, so, but I keepmy mind about every time.
I think Bengali, I think StMary's so much.
So I think you know what kindof wedding it takes to hire you
to do, to do what you do forweddings.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah, we do quite a bit.
The thing is again, when itcomes to a wedding they would
have the coordinators and thedecorators and people who sat in
on the wedding and so forth.
But any wedding they might wanta piece where they can get Like
take, for example, those Hinduweddings.
They might want a mandap builtwith a big dome roof.

(07:10):
We did quite a bit of that.
So they come to me, we givethem a course and they say, yeah
, we want it, we put it together.
But I can talk as much as Iwant, but I mean when you see it
on pictures like whoa, youbuilt that it's like, but I mean
when you see it on pictureslike whoa, you build that Like
yeah, yeah, that's one of thethings that, even in this
interview, is difficult forpeople.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I wish people could see on your Instagram you show
us some of the process sometimes.
Yeah, well, that's just a big.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
There's so much more I could put out there.
It's just to sit down and youknow, kind of do a webpage and
put everything a little moreneater.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, but it's always impressive to see, even in the
you.
Sometimes you do some processvideos and it's hard for me to
figure out.
When you're building somethingRight, I can't imagine what the
end product is Right Like afterI'm looking at it.
Sometimes I say what are theytrying to do here?
Because I'm assuming they'rebuilding a lot of it in pieces
and assembling when they getsomewhere.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well it has to be for two reasons.
One, if you're dealing with avenue, you have to find out the
size of the doorway to get inthe venue.
That's one.
Two, we could only transport 10, 8 feet wide on the road.
After that you need policeescort to get things moved from
one part to the next.
So from the workshop we have tobuild it in parts, unless we're

(08:27):
building it on site.
I did one job like that yearsago where we actually work on
site, so we didn't have to donothing in parts, we just built
everything Huge.
It's one of the biggestprojects we had done too.
That was a Christian eventcalled Open House.
Yeah, that was about 10 yearsago and that was huge.
I mean that was a fun project,it was all charity, but they

(08:50):
kind of gave me a go ahead to dowhat I want, okay, okay.
So I totally enjoyed thatproject Because we didn't have
to worry about fitting through adoor and putting this thing
back together.
I mean your door and puttingthis thing back together.
I mean a lot of things come out.
My workshop, my workshops isnot huge, but everything that
comes out um goes back into.
Well, it's never assembled inthe workshop, right?

(09:12):
Because we don't have the spaceto put them together.
So when I reach on sitepeople's like whoa, this thing
actually come together and fit.
Everything lines up everything,everything works.
I mean that by itself isengineering, of what you know.
I didn't go to school to learn,but at the end of the day it it
was just developed yeah, yeahyeah and janine.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
You said janine is in the company with your day to
day, right?

Speaker 3 (09:37):
oh yeah from from start.
Yeah to this.
Now she has been half thecompany, because I tell
everybody, you know, when itcomes to her, I don't think I
could have reached this far bymyself, because I have decisions
to be made that I would havebeen the worst person to.
And then decisions she makeslike yeah, boy on point, you

(09:58):
know, in terms of planning andgetting things done the right
way and you know I mean Simpleas okay, something that is not
done properly.
You know I would say we'rerunning out of time, just leave
it.
No, she would make sure, hey,let's get this thing done
properly to make the client tobe happy, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
So you're cracking the whip basically, oh yeah,
that's good.
So is it like you all divide upthe work, so you doing the
design side?

Speaker 3 (10:30):
of janine might do logistics and, and so when it
comes to to coming up with theideas, is a lot of her right.
When it comes to putting it onpaper, that's me, you know.
When it comes to planning andbuying materials and thing,
that's her.
And then when it comes toactually building, that's my
guys Right yeah, what kind ofsize of team are you talking
about?
Well, it all depends on theproject.
You know, Through the year wehave like four or five permanent

(10:53):
guys that we have.
Well, they're on contract, butthey're always there, Right?
Yeah, you know, but when itcomes we have like 18 people.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Oh yeah, you had to bring people on because of the
size of the project.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, on that job, you know it was like two welders
um, painters, people stickingpeople, cutting people, you know
.
So everybody had their part todo, but at the end of the day,
um, I couldn't do it withoutthem.
Right, they come like a printerneed computer to send the

(11:31):
signal to you know.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
So you can't get this print unless you have a printer
.
So those guys, I call them myprinters, yeah, and they help
with concept and all that aswell.
No, no, no, no, so you can havea smaller concept team once it
wants to come to that.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, yeah, well, again it comes like okay, you
have.
Well, janine, she typing in themessage, right to me and I'm
the um the software, so she'sthe software.
I'm the software, so she's thesoftware.
I'm the hardware and send it tothe printers.
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
So that's your process.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it works, you know, for 25
years it works, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
But I'd ask you, because a lot of times like the
risk of entrepreneurship,sometimes it's better when you
have a wife who take the plungeand go and start a business and
a husband have a steady income,or vice versa what's that like
when both of y'all put it allinto your?

Speaker 3 (12:08):
company.
It's challenging sometimes.
You know, sometimes we both hadshe don't agree with something
and I was like, nah, this isgoing to work.
You know, you have to kind oftry and separate husband and
wife's business.
That's mainly the onlychallenge we have, Right In
terms of then.

(12:28):
We have three kids that wewe've seen about.
So that by itself is a job.
Yeah, so if we both workingtogether, it's like, yeah, we
had to figure out how we'redoing all of this, you know, and
the workshop is home.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
It's close to home, it is.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
I decided to do the workshop in front of my front
yard, right, but we kind of wellovergrown that space because
the kind of things that comesout, people is like, wait, you
build that there.
Again, it's all done in partsand then assembled afterwards.
I'm looking and the process arelooking, I guess, somewhere if

(13:04):
we could, you know, upgrade andto expand.
Yeah, because it'll it'll makethe work a lot easier right
there.
Yeah, because a lot of times wefight up with, okay, we have to
weld up the frames first beforewe could apply the foam right,
so while the welding ishappening, very little could be
done in the space.
Now, if I have a bigger space,I get welding happening while

(13:27):
it's sticking, while it'spainting, so I don't have to
wait the process, so it canhappen faster, we can take on
more jobs, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
And when you're in terms of your process.
I always wonder, because I don'thave an artistic bone in my
body, so I'm fascinated by whenyou talk about something and
then you'll build something thatyou visualize, especially when
you look at the themes.
Because that underwater theme Ifind it to be so difficult to
translate to real life, becausein underwater it's obvious that
you're not underwater.

(13:56):
But when I saw what you all didthere, especially the entrance,
I was like wait, just in thephotos when you saw people going
into the front, that was thefirst year.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
How long ago that would have been.
That was 2019.
Wait, just in the photos, whenyou saw people going into the
firm, that was the first year.
How long ago that would havebeen.
That was 2019.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Oh, that was the first year.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
We only recently started with the St Mary's job.
Oh, they're having a lot ofimpact there.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
We decided if we're doing something, we can't do it
this way.
We're not going to do it.
You know, if it's not going tocreate an impact, the clients
aren't going to be happy.
I prefer to turn down the job.
Yeah, yeah, I mean you turndown money, but I mean you want
it to look good, right?
I mean not everybody's thinkingthat way.
You know they have to do itbecause they have to always

(14:45):
protect that.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
You mentioned three kids Is something that you would
encourage your kids.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
We're in a doctor and lawyer society where people
tell the children yeah, theyhave to be a doctor or a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
You went through that when you were younger.
Your parents were happy withyour decision.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Well, I kind of grew up with my grandparents, right,
so I kind of grew up with mygrandparents, right so, and then
my grandfather, he got sick inan early age so it was, um, it
was, it wasn't like demanding ofme to to have to do this and
have to do that.
I mean, yeah, yeah, we gottalks of your only drawing, what
drawing could do for you.
It's like, yeah, I like it, youknow, but they never forced it

(15:22):
down my throat where you have togo and be a lawyer, doctor.
No, they just left it up to meand do what you want, gotcha,
but I didn't have any intentionsof getting into the arts.
No, no.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
So what was your initial thought, what you
thought you was going to work on?

Speaker 3 (15:35):
They have some other different things.
I didn't have no idea to saythe truth, but I was introduced
to the arts when I left school.
Let me tell you the truth.
But I was introduced to thearts when I left school and let
me tell you, I played a big, big, big role, because I find my
way immediately.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
But this is from the same school teacher from Saudi.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, he kind of the John Donald.
So at the time had a coursethat they were taking in young
artists who now left school andit was kind of given us
different medium to work withand I kind of get introduced to
copper and drawing paints andand different things.
So it kind of opened up me alittle bit more to different

(16:13):
mediums.
Even wire bending we did andthat kind of lead to one
direction.
You know this whole filmsculpting, you know people take
it for granted because I mean,when you go to these, these
studios we call this like disneyuniversal studios and I have
all the pieces it's it's comefrom form yeah the start.
The beginning is from form,because if you want a giant

(16:35):
wheel done, you start doing itfrom foam, unless it's like
super ridiculous and it's goingto be permanent.
You know you could do frameworkright, mesh and then cement, oh
yeah but then it will be realheavy.
So the foam is, I guess, yourlightest route to that if that's
a permanent fixture, yourbillet on spot okay but if
you're gonna do something for astage set, you know, like all

(16:55):
those those floats that theyhave even in brazil, all those
um big floats that they have fortheir parades and stuff, a lot
of it is foam.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
So there's just a base, gotcha, gotcha.
So you're, you're.
You went on to john lee to dosomebody more technical, right
well?

Speaker 3 (17:10):
it was just.
It was just a fast course.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
I think that was like a little over a year or so so
you'll say, for the most part,yourself taught in the things
that you're doing.
Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah.
But then what do you?
What do you pattern?
Is it that you?
Because 25 ago, if you'retalking about YouTube and things
, you could take that and learneverything.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
What were you?

Speaker 1 (17:29):
finding out about the different things.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well, it was always a struggle, right?
Because take, for example, foam.
You sculpt foam, you try topaint it with any paint, like
bum spray, anything that haspetrol based it melts.
So then you have to find asituation where, okay, how do I
code this thing, you know, andagain, if you go on YouTube,

(17:53):
you'll find out where you couldcode.
But we didn't have YouTube, soI had to kind of try different
stuff, try this, try this.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
You had plenty of trial and error.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yes, Until I said, okay, this is what we're running
with, and then only to find outnow, now that they have google
and and youtube, this is exactlywhat they use the teaching
right and I I stumble upon it,you know, and I was like, wow,
it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, that's good, the methods and the techniques
and that kind of thing so havingspent this amount of time in
the business is something you'llencourage your children to
start doing.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yes and no, because at the end of the day, I mean,
it pays the bill, but I'm notgoing to force them into it.
Yeah, you know, because we haveone who just loves computer
work.
That's what.
What age?
He's 13, going into 14.
But he's doing coding, oh nice,and he loves that.
So I'm not going to force himinto carving and painting.

(18:47):
No, yeah, I mean, if he'sbuilding websites and he's doing
stuff, that's the age rangeright now, gotcha.
Yeah, because he's so much ofthings he could get into for
himself.
And then the older one I meanshe's kind of into the graphics,
okay, so she might be the oneto help me.
I don one, I mean she kind ofinto the graphics, okay, so she

(19:11):
might be the one to help me, Idon't know.
But, um, it has a skill youneed now.
Anyway, oh yeah, because a lotof times you know you need to
get something, um, presented toour client um, you need a
graphic artist, of course.
Yeah, even if you're um, you'redoing building, um stuff, you
know you want to somebody likethat to put again.
So she's in our field.
But I'm not going to force herinto the company.
I mean, it's their choice, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Is your belief that they find their own passion the
same way you found yours?
Definitely.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Definitely, because a lot of times I mean you hear
stories, I mean doctors, lawyersthey break off when they start
doing other things.
Of wanted me to be a doctor.
So when I do a doctor yeah,even engineers so I always want
to be a movie producer, butthere's a business that isn't,

(19:50):
so I have to go and fix roads,and I have to, of course.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, that's not a passion but it's interesting
that rewards it, because themore I talk to creatives it
seems to be a difficult spacewhere, uh, the respect for the
creative or the craft is notthere, we know, and then
potential is, I don't feel theappreciation in front of that
you don't at all, at all, at allat all.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
We don't have that.
You know, it's like when youlook at um, florida, for example
.
I mean, as soon as you enterthe airport you see art
sculptures.
Then you move along you by theroundabouts, they have pieces of
art and then when you go to thestudios, the parks, it's all

(20:31):
art.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
They have a whole art deco where it's a whole strip
where it's just and we don'tappreciate art in Trinidad like
that, you know.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
So it's a struggle.
I mean, we started doing it forSt Mary's party and Because
nobody has done it to thatmagnitude, we could see that
Right.
So I was like you know what,let me try it, let's just try it
.
Let's see what happens if we doit big.
Because you see these big musicfestivals all around the world,

(20:59):
like Tomorrowland and I, I meanthey're visually memorable,
they take it to the next level.
Yeah, so, and I mean they'revisually memorable, they take it
to the next level.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So why not?
You know why not?
Why stop short?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
there's so much, so much we could do so you'll
accept your role in making StMary's the most, one of the most
premium fets in the becauseit's.
I didn't realize it was only2019.
You're taking it, but it's timeto become the coveted thing to
go, and I feel like part of itis because of how it looks.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I would hope so.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me sing your praises for you,
in case you don't want to singit Because every year you're
going to have Marshall Destro.
There's very little that youcould change with the artists.
No, no, knock on them, becauseof course they will come out
with something new every yearthe food and the drinks and them
.
Things could change only somuch.
But I think people look forwardto seeing what it's going to be
like.
Or people look forward to goingthere to take pictures to post

(21:47):
right to make fatima look bad,you know so it's one of them.
Things where the the visualnature.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
I wonder sometimes in your design how much you cater
for things like instagram andtiktok and those things in your
mind at all, like how it will becaptured on social media well,
not, not really, but all we cantell you is every part of the
venue that we do is a photo, soit's not like we're going to
create a photo in this.
I understand A lot of thedifferent venues you go to.

(22:14):
They have a particular photoarea that you go, but once we do
something, I mean you shoot inany way.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, of course You're probably walking through
a venue to make sure that is thecase.
Yeah, in design, and that's theonly fit type event that you do
to that magnitude.
Yes, yeah, other things arejust small things.
They're just like just thestage.
Yeah, like, how you say, justthe stage, when you see what all
these stages look like, justthe stage uh, it's kind of well,

(22:43):
because when you talk aboutcreatives it feels as though I
agree with you that it's adifficult space in the country
and I don't know how muchrespect we give it.
So I'll piggyback on yourexample of you go to different
countries and you see the art ofthe country as soon as you land
.
Yeah, and you tend to come intoour airports, one of them brand
new now, and there's verylittle that connects who we are

(23:06):
visually.
It's just, it's an airport.
It's built for utility, right.
And I always used to ask myselfyou know, okay, what Minshild do
with all them costumes?
You know how come those thingscan't be on display every time
we come into the country to showpeople?
Or forget Minshild for a minute, the King and Queen.
Last year Nobody knew what thatlooked like.
I think any youth now wouldhave a hard time telling you

(23:27):
what the King and Queen ofCarnival was looking like.
It just seems to be a gap.
But you do see Carnival timenow If people come in for
carnival.
You have some displays in theairport.
You have some.
You know whether it's theartists or the performers or you
have the costumes in theairport.
Do you find that carnival timeis the time that you most
recognize in the creativeindustry.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, you could say so it's mostly, then mostly
there, because I mean when we doweddings it's also wow, but
it's only for private.
Yes, I see, yeah, carnival andcarnival.
I would call it private too,because CIC is a private fed.
Yeah, when it comes to I mean,the March, gra and the Savannah
and you know it's so much morecould be done on a permanent

(24:08):
scale because this fed we set itup for what?
Six hours, right, and then Ihave to come back down.
Yeah, but if we get opportunityto do something that would last
for the whole carnival season,everybody could appreciate it.
So it's not like we just wantto do CIC, no, we just need the
opportunity to do something,because take, for example, the

(24:29):
avenue.
I mean they redo the avenue theother day and I don't see.
No, wow, you know what I mean.
There's so much more we couldhave done and create stuff, you
know, to have tourists come inand say, whoa, you know, because
them, coming from from art,let's say their, their place is
full of sculptures, and and thenthey come to our island, to the

(24:54):
.
We call it the greatest show,of course, and let me tell you,
we've been to differentcarnivals, like up the Caribbean
, and it ain't nothing comparedto here, to Trinidad.
We're the mecca, but we don'ttreat it like that.
Yeah, we just take it forgranted.
There's so much more we can doto make this thing a wow like.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
One of the things I hear from people a lot here is
um, the road march, for instance, makes the competition, leads
to a poor experience forsomebody who watching mass in
the savannah, because now you'regonna hear party and carry it
over and over and over all daylong, right, and I sometimes
wonder, as you're saying, if wedo enough to make the savannah

(25:36):
visually appealing, like it's soraw.
The Grandstand and theNorthstand, I mean, and the
stage itself.
Yeah, there's nothing done onthis stage, really Nothing.
Yeah, you think it's somethingthat we will see change here,
boy, well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
It all depends on the authorities and who's in charge
?

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yes, of course Again at the end is vision.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
If you don't have vision, we get nowhere.
You know, you had to see it andyou had to see for what it
could do, because so much couldbe done.
In our carnival we could takeBrazil, brazil.
I mean I would say I wouldn'tpersonally want to go to Brazil
carnival because it's so rigidand just so sad, but they take

(26:13):
it to the next level.
Yeah, they do.
It's like amazing.
You want to go and see, but interms of enjoying yourself and
how we have our time in Trinidadchocolate cheese Hard, hard to
match.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And one of the things I seewith Rio that I always wonder
how come we don't do more of isthe floats.
Yeah, because they payattention to what the float
looks like coming on the road.
There's some massiveinstallations and designs, but
sometimes we just put musictrucks out on the road as if,
again, it's just utility.
There's not outside of, maybe,spirit Mass.
They've taken on a kind ofapproach where they're doing

(26:46):
some design on the trucks as yougo along, but other than that,
it's just utility.
The drinks truck is just fordrinks and what you do is you
wrap a whole bunch of sponsorbanners around it and that
becomes what we call beauty.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Well, we did some work for Tribe last year and
this year in terms of trucks aswell, and they're trying to take
it up.
But again, at the end it is allabout budget, of course.
But you know, if you have againthings put in place for a
carnival where we could getcertain things sponsored, you
know, make it part of thecarnival.
I understand Not relying onjust the band to produce this,
because they have budgets too,of course.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
And that's very fleeting and temporary.
So in other words, if I sit inthe Savannah and I see some
beauty, it passed by, it gone,rather than doing things that
are permanently there.
So there's some wow factor.
I like your comparison toDisney, because Disney or
Universal Studios and them, theydon't forget that wow factor
from the gate.
It transforms it like a littlechild.
Yeah, especially the part whereyou spend all your money like a

(27:46):
little child too.
You know what I mean.
It increases how much you'rewilling to spend when you go
there and how much time you'rewilling to spend there.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
And the memories, oh yeah.
I mean like Tomorrowland.
They started from theinvitation and then the actual
flight Right, and then when youget to the venue, I mean there
are people camping out.
Of course Our carnival could beso much bigger.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Now you bring up sponsors right.
Uh-huh, sponsors.
I work in marketing, so I workwith sponsors.
So what we do is like companiesthat might sponsor events.
Like companies that mightsponsor events.
So, for instance, you'reworking for Sony and they might
sponsor the World Cup team whenwe went in 2006.
So, whatever they want to do, wehave to get produced here the
banners on the side of the fieldand all those things.
One of the things I havedifficulty with with sponsors

(28:29):
locally here is that, like forSteelpan, the sponsor name comes
before the ban.
So you'll see BP Renegades andlike I listened to all calypsos
and hear people say cartelli allstars and cartelli is no longer
a company.
I wonder if the sponsors youknow we need the sponsors to be
a part of what we do to boost itright, but we also need to make

(28:49):
sure that all stars is a star,not the sponsor.
I've never heard of the nikechicago bulls.
You know things like that.
They will never give away theirbrand name before.
I always wonder for people likeyou.
You work in an environmentwhere they have sponsors and you
have to do design, but you seemto be able to do a tasteful
design in an event without a bigI don't want to call no company

(29:10):
name, but one coming to mindwithout a big banner covering
the entrance.
How do you work around to workthrough those things, or is it
an issue for you at all?

Speaker 3 (29:16):
No, well, they do sometimes come and want to put
banners next to the deco and Ilet them know.
You know this is my piece.
You know this is what I'm doing.
I don't give.
I mean you, yes, you're payingsponsors, whatever, but you got

(29:38):
to promoters.
You can't come and just put abanner on my, my material.
No, yeah, I I looking, see, Itrying to create a product for
myself, just like I can't comeup with a banner in front of
their banner.
Of course, yeah, of course theyhave to understand.
Okay, they can't do that.
Go to the side, yeah, yeah,although you're a sponsor, you
still need to go to the side.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
My thing is my thing yeah, I appreciate you doing
that.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
More people need to yeah because I, at the end of
the day.
You see blue water bannersstrapped all over.
You see Coca-Cola strapped allover.
It's a gosh.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, sometimes it takes away from the event.
Yes, yeah, I think you'll.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
It can be done a little more tasteful sometimes.
I mean sometimes they do havethe panache and do nice little
signs.
Right, I'm not gonna most ofthe time yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
People want to put if they could get you to walk
through their banner to comeinto the venue, that's what they
will get.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
A lot of times.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
So work outside a carnival now.
So you say you do weddings andthose types of things, do you
get a lot of corporate jobs fromthose sponsors to do things for
them?
Um, in terms of the biggercompanies, uh, there's a
question for Janine.
You only should see Janine'sface.
It's great.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
We're going to get Janine around this table next
time so we, we do events right,but again it's through either an
advertising agency or anotherdecorator.
They would call us in to have apiece, a specific piece, done.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Okay, so that's how we do it so it's in the context
of a bigger, bigger production,then, or they might be doing a
booth or event and you're doinga just a part of it doing a
piece.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
They may just want us to do the stage deck or only
yeah, and that would be probablyin higher to wherever.
Wherever the location is mainlythe focal point.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yes, oh well, I guess , I guess I guess.
I guess now I'm asking thatquestion because, again, as we
had when we started our company,we used to represent brands,
like I tell you.
Sony was one and I was tellingyou before we recorded that was
a challenge we had.
One time we had hired a guy whonow I them days, I don't know
what is prop design, right,right, I don't know, I never
heard of the term, but I knowwhat I want the event to look

(31:32):
like in the end.
I understand where the outcomeneeds to be and what they hired
us to do was they were launchingin price, smart quotes and
standards.
Sony was launching a stereosystem.
It was the first home stereosystem that had 2000 watts of
power home.
So I hope your neighbor neverbuy one, right.
But it was a big setup for ahome system and what they wanted

(31:52):
and they showed us examples ofit all over the wheel when they
launched they wanted to make theentrance that stereo system.
So when I watch yourinstallations and your insert
now I know you could do it.
I understand that you all willget it done.
But I went to a guy who I won'tcall no name, but let me say
he's a joiner at best and hetold me, yeah, he could get

(32:13):
anything done.
You know what I mean.
Just send him the renders andall that and send him pictures
of it, and on the night what weend up with is three very heavy
boxes that's number one I talkabout prohibitively heavy.
We could barely move it to putit in place.
And he put two speakers likethat and then put the console on
top and then he wrapped thebanner with the picture I sent

(32:36):
him from my phone of the stereosystem.
So you know, we can't get paid.
I can't put that up.
The other thing I said you know,this is not looking safe
Because this big heavy thingover people's heads what
naturalities are?
I had to think about that.
So I was completely stuck.
Of course we had to credit theclient for everything that we
said we was going to do, and soon, and it spoils the event
overall.
So and so on, and it spoils theevent overall.

(32:58):
So I wonder if there's spacefor you all.
Well, I could tell you there'sspace for you all to do those
kind of things, becausecompanies, particularly the ones
who are operatinginternationally, I guess they're
just used to some of thesethings and I found it difficult
to find providers here thatcould do it.
Yeah, it's been a real, realchallenge.
Outside of weddings and so on,most of your work year-round

(33:19):
comes from what type of eventsthen?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, we also have a big I call it a niche for
Christmas props.
So we have clientele that likeright now, actually as soon as
Carnival was over.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
We got our call.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
I'm ready for Christmas, because Christmas is
a big thing for us as well.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
And it would be like malls.
What type of places?

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Well, we do stuff for the malls, the premier malls,
but it's private homes.
Oh really, yeah, private.
Oh, look at that.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
I'll cut this part out.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
I can't let my wife hear that.
No, no, but if I can doChristmas for the the entire
year, yeah, I can.
Um, because I have to putpeople on hold.
I say okay because, like, ifyou call me october for
christmas, I was like it's toolate.
Then they say, okay, we don'tmind, we wait for next year.
Really I was like, yeah, okay,no problem, and yeah.

(34:14):
Then we get the call rightafter carnival.
It's like, yeah, we're ready.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Oh, so you, yeah, you booked out, then I guess, yes,
and what about things like so inin, things like theater and so
on?
Those would be things that youwould do, like set design and
stuff.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Well, we'd usually, um, we want that kind of thing.
We help them with the sets,right, you know, build props and
that kind of thing.
A few others, yeah, we workthrough Queensall Napa, that
kind of thing.
It all depends on what theirteam is, what they want.
Yeah, you know, they come to usand we do some sets.

(34:48):
I really do some sets for Edwin.
Yeah, edwin is no longer withus, but let me tell you, he was
growing and as a theaterproduction, yeah, yeah, he used
to do some crazy designs andevery time he come to me he's
like bend this right one.
I was like yeah, no problem allright okay yeah, he was a
teacher in utt, I think aprofessor in utt.
I used to enjoy working withhim because he was one of our

(35:09):
architect type things.
So when he bring a drawing tome it has specs to detail, so I
don't want to work anything out.
This one is my one.
I just have to do and that usedto be so simple.
It's like he used to be likewhen you finish it, he's like
yeah, I like what you call itsimple.
Yeah, I mean because somebodycome to me, um, with a picture,

(35:30):
even I I would then have toscale it.
They'll say how big you wantthis thing, um, 20 feet tall,
okay, then I now have to startworking this out.
You know, if it's a, then I nowhave to start working this out.
If it's a big head, they haveto know where the face is going
to be, where the eyes is goingto be.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
So there are a lot of maths involved in terms of
working out scale and that kindof thing Gotcha, gotcha and mass
bands, that kind of thing Kingand Queen of Caraval, those
things you'll do or you'll do.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
It's something we kind of tried, we worked in
through a few clients, but it's,it's a way to say to me it's a
work by itself.
It's a job by itself, right,it's not something you can just
okay carnival coming up, we canjump in it.
No, it's something too we'llhave to put some time into it.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, I usually see people who are in wirebending
and stuff.
They have a very, very longprocess too from designing to
coming up with the final costume.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
A lot of people they start their costume right after.
Yeah, a lot of people thenscrap down their backpacks and
they're ready for next year.
So that's a time consumingthing.
I mean, this year we did twoindividuals for tribe lost tribe
.
We tribe, lost tribe, losttribe.
We did two individuals for themand they were quite happy.
It's the first time we give ita try, right, you know.
And then we helped Ruth Mendeswith her costume a queen she had

(36:45):
she had done, but unfortunatelyshe didn't make it to the
finals.
But it was a fun, yeah,rewarding work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But if we had the time, oh,yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
So you mentioned McFarlane and I saw that you all
had worked together on themural that's outside Tower D,
that's the parliamentary tower.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yes, that was done for the 50th anniversary of
Independent and it was supposedto come down at the end of the
year, just as everything else.
Oh really, yeah, we built stufffor all inside our Hyatt.
We did stuff and that was partof it to come down, but they

(37:23):
kind of fell in love with it andthey said they're going to keep
it up.
So it was never done as apermanent structure.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
But it could hold up.
What material that?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
is Well, again it's all stereotypes, serious pyrotex
people serious yeah, peoplethought it was metal.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
I think it's metal, right I?

Speaker 3 (37:36):
would have thought so , right.
No, it's again where foam isconcerned.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
We could make it look like anything like wood, metal
and I guess, once somebody don'tphysically damage it that day.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Well, we had some people come and you know, knock
it, dig it.
It was within a six-year period.
We had took it down,refurbished it and put it back
up.
But now I'm seeing it needs alittle touching up again.
But again, it was never done asa permanent fixture.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Right.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
But McFarlane, that's a company I used to work for,
as I mentioned earlier.
I started with him Because ofthe jobs that he got at the the
time he was getting all the bigjobs.
So that kind of allowed me tospread my wings and experiment
with different things and, youknow, try different things.
And then up to this day I'mstill providing stuff for him.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
I see, yeah, but he still does things like events on
those things.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
There's a Christmas shows and weddings, and well,
he's been decorating Girl Cityfor quite some time.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Oh, I see Christmas Gotcha gotcha.
Yeah, christmas will alwaysbring more and more work, right
yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
So every time he has an installation for Christmas he
wants something in the atrium.
We build it out for him, youknow.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So those types of designs I mean you said that
that wasn't set out to bepermanent but those things that
you would want to work on,because, again, if you have
something that marks theparliamentary building, let's
assume that they redo the RedHouse and there's art that could
be there.
Or you remember one time theyhad done a series of artists
around the Oval, just paintings,right?
Yeah, I'm assuming that wassupposed to be temporary too,

(39:12):
because that was just canvas andI know how long that will last.
But those are things that youmight want to do, like
installations like those.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Of course, yeah, of course even the ones on
parliament right now.
I don't mind taking it downagain and refurbishing it, even
adding to it, you know, andmaking it permanent, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (39:30):
the theme then was just culture of the country,
some symbols of culture.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
It basically represented where we came from
and, yeah, the differentcultures that make up Trinidad
and Tobago, because you saw theAmerindians there.
They had Chinese, syrian,lebanese.
Yeah everybody, everyone wasthere the Africans, the Indians,
the indentured liberals,everyone was depicted there, and
even Tobago was depicted, ifyou look at it.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Everyone was depicted there and even Tobago was
depicted, gotcha, if you look atit.
Yeah, it's one of my personalgripes.
You know it's something that Ialways look at things like that
and how it could represent,because if you come to Trinidad,
you could, as a foreigner whodon't know anything about the
place it's a very difficultplace to navigate or learn
anything about or from.
You know, if you just travelsolo, just watching it's hard.
From you know, if you justtravel solo, just watching it's
hard.
And then there was one timethat the atrium in the airport

(40:21):
used to be that space.
That would tell a little bit ofa story.
But of course now we get out toStarbucks, which has wonder
sometimes, you know, like whatdo you?

Speaker 3 (40:30):
do you know what do you?
Again, if you don't have a lovefor art or vision for art, you
know busy things would happen.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, that profit profit would would overcome.
Yeah, and I wonder what kind ofprofits?
You know the definition ofprofit, sometimes so narrow
because it's the only part ofour local or airport, the
trinidad airport that is, thathas the height to do some of the
older costumes or the biggerinstallations.
It it was anything grand and itcould help shape your experience

(41:01):
.
If you're coming into thecountry for the first time, you
know like, hey, come in here,Wow.
But again, I guess Starbucks.
You know coffee, People needcoffee, you know.
So you'll notice that thecultural exhibitions now they
start to move to the outside ofthe arrival lounge so they might
have tassel, they might havesteel balancing plane when
people leave.
I find it to be unfortunate,but it's so related to what

(41:23):
you're saying about respect forthe art.
And I had, um, I had a guesthere last time.
He was talking about how howpeople were treated during covid
.
I saw y'all talking about thatin an article as well.
He was an event promoter and Iwas talking about.
His whole life is eventpromotion.
This is wow events, AdrianSchoon.
And he said I want to meet Ben.

(41:43):
I never told him you was coming, he said.
But I really like Ben Woodboy.
He said I don't know if I couldafford Ben.
I said well, I'll go ask himwhen he come and make the
contact.
They're all two realvisionaries.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
I mean, a lot of people is like take what we
expend.
I mean, at the end of the daywe work with quality material
and then we put out quality work, Of course.
So it would cost something.
You know you can't do it forfree, of course.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, so that time of COVID and the way the whole
events were shut down.
The country was shut down.
You like him.
Your life, work is in creatingthings for spaces that people
come together, where there'sweddings, there's events,
there's fets.
Yeah, what was that like when,when things were shut down.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
That was like a full stop and I was like you know, I
was like what do we do?
What do we do?
But fortunately, because I amnot solely into decorating, I
didn't go under totally.
People were still calling forstuff, yeah, yeah.
So we kind of had a little bitgoing on, unlike other people
who just like who's intoequipments and, yeah, everything

(42:47):
, just park up.
Yeah, everything was just yeah.
So we started feeling it.
You know, it's like wow, youknow what I mean, and they did
nothing for us.
Yeah, we, wow, you know what Imean, and they did nothing for
us.
Yeah, we was like the last.
I mean, we, we, we always beentreated like that in our event
and I would say even in CIC,they always treat us like the
decorator, not important, really.

(43:09):
Yeah, the party needs the DJ,the equipments, the roof, the
tents, you know, and the foodand drink, but we can leave the
deck out.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Not the promoter.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Not the promoter.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
We're talking just in general other vendors oh.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
I see.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
We were actually told at one time that the deck
doesn't have to go up, but themusic has to be up.
Or else this would not go on.
Yeah, that's the disrespect wehave to deal with.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
That's fight for real estate, something inside the
event.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah, yeah, I mean at the end if you don't have
Marshall and Kess, and you knowI mean, nobody wants to come to
that FET.
You know the top artists,nobody want to come to the FET.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
So it's like we've been treated like okay, yeah,
yeah, just push them aside yeah,I might argue different, you
know, because I think that, um,if you have to do a survey as to
why people want to go next year, I could, I could bet that a
lot of people will see isbecause of how it looks.
The look at the fetters.
What I don't want to say,that's the only thing.

(44:15):
I don't want to take anythingaway from any other part, but
they have a hundred FETs.
You could see Marshall for theyear, but there's that one Ben
Gaia, I could call it St Mary'sFET, but there's that one time
that you will see something asas consuming as that visually
when you walk into the event.
So I was surprised.
But I mean other vendors.

(44:36):
I suppose people want to.
As you say, man wants a rapbanner and you think people want
to arrest Daspin.
You must get some of that.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Well, again, you know , we just talk about the vibes
and the vibes, because I hearpeople talk about Fatima and it
was good.
I mean, they don't have theatmosphere.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
I have a real challenge with it.
Honestly, I love Fatima.
I have a Fatima old boy andsome of my friends are old boys
on the committee.
But I find inside of Fatimanumber one, the school is a
beautiful school, the buildingbut what happens is that it is I
don't know if you ever went toit at all no, it is sponsor
mania inside there.

(45:14):
What you see is a lot of tentsnone of it cohesive Everybody
coming to sell their products.
So you might see a Campari bootthat have a slight step up
that'll lock one and it'll rockyou when you step onto it.
And a next food thing here thathave a sign that ain't related
and no way to the next sign onthe next side.
So I always feel it is a realgood vibe.
It is a good fit.

(45:35):
Them fellas and they have someof the top bands.
They had back Marshall thisyear for the first time in some
years.
So no knock on the vibe in theevent.
But I wonder if people or thecommittee sees where the, how
much it could be enhanced if itlook in a certain way beyond
that.
But I know budgets and so onbecause from the time I tell
them about it, they say budgets,they say them fellas and them

(45:55):
have big budgets in St Mary's.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
You know, well, I mean yes and no, it's totally
the same school.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
If you think about it , they're under the same roof
Only God's fathers, yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Yeah, so why not management?
It's the same thing with thecountry, you know, like if we
don't have management and peoplehave vision, we end up the same
way.
So if you can't see, okay, this, we can do something by this
roundabout grant, or in theairport, or the boardwalk, or
the boardwalk, you know.

(46:24):
If you can't see that, wellthen we don't get nowhere, you
know.
But if you see the importanceof it, like these, these two
fellas, I mean they, they, theycall me in Um, was this Joe
harder than Roberto Ramirez?
Yeah, they, I mean they havedivision.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
That's at St Mary's.
St Mary's.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
They call me in and it's like Ben, we want we going
to do to make it better nextyear.
I was like brother, we couldfix it up, no problem.
But if you don't have thatquestion happening.
How do you grow, you know, ifyou just think about okay, we're
just making the money, and Isaid, take the sacrifice, of
course, because St Mary's youcan't get tickets for, but at

(47:04):
the end of the day they broughtthe party to what it is, or we
brought the party what it is.
Everybody else could do it, youknow.
So it's just about thatmanagement and putting things in
place and everybody can begreat.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I just hope Oli accept.
Oli rolled out all his parties.
Nobody can't get any tickets.
I just want to put that outthere.
That's one of the main reasonsI hear Ben guy say tickets.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
I love it.
I've been asking people becalling me Ben.
We want 10 tickets.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I was like, yeah, I know the promoters no but I have
some ideas, because, besidesthem, installations, you can
just form me into a few, if youjust you know you create a
little crawl space.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Or you could come and be an actor, a dancer, a moko
be, and I want to disappear andfed.
They ain't gonna find me, thosefellas end up in effect.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Well, I guess my still walkers they end up in
effect.
So wait beyond just the decor.
You would provide those thingsas well, and in any photo area.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
We had some, um, like years gone by, we had still
walkers dressed up as trees,right you know.
And then last year we had rockmen.
They would dress up like rockand trees.
And then this year we kind ofswitched it up and we had what
do we call them?
Mirrormen, mirrormen.
Okay, so they were all dressedin these mirror outfits Because
we was all modern.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Right, yeah, futuristic.
So you understand that, daryl,lime color, lime fit.
We did lime two years, twoyears ago.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, how that went.
We just did the stage, just thestage, just the stage.
It was good, it was exciting.
A little project, we enhancedit and then they didn't call us
back after that and I realizedthey didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, they didn't do much.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
No, them calls go and come eh.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Again.
I mean, if you don't see theimportance of it you won't
bother.
But this is now.
It was the top tier ticketprice.
It was very, very hard to getand it was also one of those
FETs.
When you walk into it there wasa wow factor.
Now a big part of the wowfactor was the house, and I
guess who he is as well.
Again, to go where Brian Larais, and for the first maybe

(49:07):
seven, eight years of that event, it was untouchable in that
premium spot in Canberra.
Now it seems to be St Mary'sand Lime battling for that
premium spot.
And you see me as a man.
I always read a thing wherewhen Koreans wanted to get into
vehicle manufacturing, right,they went and hired all the top
engineers and gave them aridiculous contract to come

(49:27):
Korea and design.
So I wonder if that call goingand come.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
If you're fighting for the top spot, call the top
guys, you know I mean, at theend of the day, if you have a
all-inclusive that that'sselling out, um, you know, and
you don't have to, yeah I guessthat's always part of it, right?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
yeah, and to tie that back to what you're saying
about the country, I wonder if,because we have a carnival
that's selling out, or at leastwe had an energy sector that was
keeping the hotels and theairports full, if it's why
you're not getting calls yetfrom the ministry or culture to
do installations, I don't know,I don't know.
You know, look at what thissavannah could look like

(50:06):
off-season, or, as you say,roundabouts.
So independence, you get themkind of calls, as you say,
roundabouts and yeah.
So independence, you get themkind of calls like those types
of things.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Well, we had to limit that because independent kind
of falls where Christmashappening and then Christmas is
always in between wherecarnavans start.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I see what you're saying, so we used to do the,
the grandstand I we used to workwith another company it's
another decorating company underthem but we did the
installations and built outstuff for them a few years we
haven't done it for for like,not for a while, yeah we've
stopped because we have otherwork to attend to but that could

(50:42):
be huge too, you know, and theyusually leave it up for
republic day and and that kindof thing.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah, it will stay up for a while at least.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Yeah yeah, I mean that you could appreciate, you
know, not coming down six daysafter Six hours, six hours after
.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, I always used to watch like I grew up in St
James right and Hussein was abig part of my upbringing and
you used to watch the amount ofwork that used to go in.
You have, yeah, and then youhad to throw away the second
part of the religion as well,but I don't know how small these
are.
Throw it in the sea.
Now I see they take apart themore valuable parts of it and
they don't throw away the wholething.
But I wonder about them.

(51:18):
Things with temporaryinstallations, yeah.
But going back to COVID for aminute, one of the things you
said about COVID in the articleI found was interesting was
stopping of the financial partof the creative sector, but the
creative part as a.
As a person who is creative,you tend to find most creatives
talk about just that outlet.

(51:38):
How was that during covid,where your amount of creativity
is limited in terms of where youcould create or build?

Speaker 2 (51:45):
we.
What we had to deal with incovid and I'm I believe I'm
speaking for everybody is thefact that it wasn't just um,
what can I say?
No physical work, but we had todeal with a mental issue.
You know, we're just beinglocked away um, our hands are
tied.
We can't do what we normallyusually are able to do.

(52:06):
Um, in our case, we, weactually did some work on the
house.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Okay, okay, that's how we.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
That's the outlet, yeah we sort of you know did
that and, as he said, we had theclients who had their little
personal Christmas decor thatthey wanted done All right
gotcha.
That kind of kept us going, butit was not easy.
Yeah, yeah mentally, mentally,emotionally, you know, every
night I I actually rememberevery night I would get up

(52:35):
around probably or two o'clockin the morning and I would just
buy out of my sleep and be like,oh my god, covid, yeah, it was
that bad it was a strange timeright, yeah, it was

Speaker 1 (52:46):
it was crazy yeah, especially when you say I liked
how you all spoke aboutcreatives being forgotten during
that time, because I genuinelybelieve that most people who
creative would find that thatisolation was a difficult thing
the inability to do what youlove or the limitation of it out

(53:06):
.
Well, but I felt like this yearjust experiencing carnival.
This year, I feel like 2025 wasour first return to normal.
It took a little while to buildback up, yeah, in terms of the
amount of people in events, howpeople enjoy it, how much people
share on social media.
I feel like we just back tothat energy.
Yeah, so I hope it continues topropel that way.

(53:29):
So, where you see the future ofof the business, where you are
now, given the type of work thatyou're doing, the jobs that
you're doing now and the callsthat will hopefully come from
the other feds and theministries, particularly, what
will you have as your vision forwhere you're going with the
company?

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Well, we would like to grow, everybody would like to
grow, but at the end of the day, in order for me to grow, I
would have to rely on people.
You know, there's only so muchI can do for myself, so we'll
have to hire new people, artists, in order to take on more
projects.
You know, mainly another space,bigger space, in order to

(54:08):
manage two or three events atthe same time.
We need the space, of course.
You know so, I think thingslike that.
But apart from that, sinceCOVID, actually, we was like why
, why are we not teach thisthing?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
We actually have been discussing it a few years now,
off and on.
You know, we've even told someschools.
If you all have art students,you know sometimes you don't
know what's there for you untilyou try it right.
Um, like, for instance, we hada student who came to us.
He was, he was into art and um,this was this is before covid

(54:46):
and he came and he did a one day, a few hours basically, with us
and he carved out it was analligator right For his as his
art project.
And you know they were allstunned that this could be done,
you know, so quickly and helearned and whatnot.
He went on to go intophotography and graphic arts and
whatnot.
He came from.

(55:06):
I believe his dad is anaccountant.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
So that would have been the way to go, of course,
but when he was opened up towhat he can do.
You know, he went the other way.
Right Now we have a youngartist with us who came out from
curacy and he is excellent andhe's learning on the band and
he's learning quickly.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, as in.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
he's already good, so that the time that he would
have taken to figure things outhe's under him.
So he just tells him no, justdo whatever, and he figures it
out, you know.
And well, he's in UWE as well,so he's part with us, but he's
in UWE doing his stuff, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
But we want more like that, Of course.
So this all comes back down toagain, maybe the Ministry of
Education.
This is an outlet.
Like we passed by a school, Ibelieve it's a home for boys,
and I was like that's a home forboys and he was like, yes, I
said, but maybe we could, youknow, get them to get their
hands dirty and see if this issomething that they might be

(56:09):
interested in.
So we actually have beenthinking about it, but it's just
a matter of getting the rightpeople to you know take on the
role of, because we aredefinitely about helping the
youth.
You know, you just never knowwhere you could get that person.
Yeah At the end of the day, youknow, and I mean, we came from
basically nothing, Right, Peoplewouldn't know that, but we

(56:30):
worked our way up and you knowwe used what we were given and,
you know, built ourselves.
So I would like to see that foranybody else.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
You know yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
It's similar to what you said your teacher would have
done for you in Southeast,right?
Yeah, yeah, I feel like and Itry not to make this into a
whole gripe session I mean,every time you talk it reminds
me of some of the difficultieswe have here.
But you're right, If you are tolend your talent and treasure
to things like this and you'rewilling to do it, I have found

(57:05):
that the more people I talk to,the more I find that people want
to do what you do.
You need to have more mentoring, or getting more people
involved, or helping youths morepeople involved or helping
youths and especially becauseour school system I don't know
if it's designed to find orcreate people like yourselves
very easily.
It's not.
It's not right.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
It's as a basic.
You know, nine to five, golearn the curriculum.
That's it the end.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, exactly, and the curriculum helps you to.
If you're really really good,you will do well in some
profession like doctor, engineer, accountant, those things.
If you're, if you're okay oryou're good and you're not
exceptional, you'll probably getvery good jobs in those fields.
But it doesn't help you muchwith things like arts or
entrepreneurship or innovation,and to me those are the things

(57:48):
that are like.
When I look at over the pastfew weeks, we're in the heat of
our election season, right, soeverybody knows what they could
do to fix the country.
Everybody's figuring it outabout two weeks before the
election.
It's beautiful, I love it, andthey know what needs to be done.
But the things that will reallysave the country, if we had to

(58:17):
depend on somebody who have oiland somebody who say if we could
get it, or we can't get it, oryou could use it or not use it,
it's really people like, likeyourselves, who innovate, try
something, do somethingdifferently and employ many,
many people who might, might nothope or might not chances.
When it's about home for theboys, I wonder how ministries
like if you say ministryeducation, how you could turn
down something like that, likewhy wouldn't you fund people who
want to help you.
So, yeah, I always feel likeit's sometimes it's just a spark
people need right, especiallyyoung people.
They just need to see because,as you say, the, the, when you

(58:39):
say carve out a styrofoam, right, I don't know what I mean
because the first thing I thinkis, will you get a big block of
styrofoam?
So I styrofoam to me is alittle ticket Ice box.
Yeah, exactly, packaging.
My biggest exposure to styrofoamwas a fellow in St Jamesville.
His father used to build massand he used to bring these

(59:01):
little styrofoam pieces home.
I don't know if he used to useit for mass or what, but we used
to take the ice pick and playdarts with that.
And boy, it looks like firewhen you see that man father,
each of them Right.
And boy, it looks like firewhen you see that man farther.
He told me take your littleStyrotex and dig it up.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
So I don't know what it is.
Well, Styrotex is one aspectthat you know.
I mean, it's just an easymethod of using, but they have
companies that are doing it inTrinidad.
They bring down the rawproducts and they do blocks.
They do blocks as big as 16feet.
Oh, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
And yes, and then we start from that and we cut it to
so what other application?

Speaker 3 (59:34):
they have other than what you're doing.
What people use that forindustry?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah, for insulation, I see, Isee, for quite a bit of things.
Oh, a lot of it in the marineindustry as well.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Okay, makes sense.
Yeah, styrofoam floats yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
You live and live where icebox coolers.
You know that happening.
But most of those deliveryvehicles, all of those panels
that you see that build up inthe back there's it's Cyretex
inside.
Ah gotcha, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It looks like metal, right yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
All of them has that foam in between.
So this foam has been, has beenused for years in Trinidad and
still been used in Trinidad.
You know, gotcha?
I mean you have the littletalks with people about the
environment and this and that,but, um, um, I mean this is what
we're giving.
You know what else?

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Of course, of course, yeah, well, it makes sense.
I'm glad to hear you'll saythat mentorship is the case.
And in terms of the future,again painting and stuff things
again back to you going back anddo your exhibition or there's
more something.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
I mean, actually we recognized that way about 10
years ago sometime.
One day we were driving downRice Road and I was like,
looking at the pieces that wedid on the Parliament building,
she was like, you know, youalways wanted to have an
exhibition.
But guess what?
Oh, yes, it's true, your workis being exhibited.
And we came to like, yeah, it'strue, I always want to have an

(01:01:00):
exhibition and we have one asbig an exhibition as you can get
.
I mean everybody that passesthere take pictures in front of
it.
Of course, wedding pictures yousee all the time, so when you
think to yourself okay, this iswhat you want to do, I want to
have an exhibition, the creatorhave more, much more installed
for you.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, you can't be that.
No, so in terms of going backto paint has gone down quite a

(01:01:28):
bit since.
I mean, since these fancyprinters come out, you can take
a picture of yourself and turnit into a portrait, of course,
She'll look like a paintingSomebody physically don't have
to do that again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, youknow that's just technology, so
it has died.
You know the whole fine artshas.
That has went down quite a bit.
So it's not like I was lookingfor it for the money, but I

(01:01:52):
still would like people toappreciate the work.
So if you don't have anaudience for it, it don't make
sense.
I mean, I love creatingthree-dimensional stuff where 3D
is concerned and bringing thatto life.
Well, I'm hoping these thingsfall on your right ears, because
some of the things you talkabout here I would here, I would

(01:02:15):
love to see come to pass, yeah,and when this other come to
pass, I would love to be a partof it.
So just let me know a comment,because if there's the
opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Everybody says yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and also
do installations in places thatpublic, because that it must be
a proud feeling to pass by thatparliament building or even to
be scrolling through instagramand see people, the wedding
pictures and stuff in front ofit.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Just a just a little while ago, we were driving up
the highway and we see theJameson bottles on the highway.
Yeah, we recently did those.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, they were five feet tall,three-dimensional.
Oh, I see they were built outof fiberglass.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Where is this on the highway?
This is like sorry between themedium.
Oh right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
And the way?
Oh right, I know what you'retalking about.
What is this Going down themiddle?
Yeah, they have a few bottlesstraight down to Rice Road.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We just passed it I was likewhoa, I felt proud.
I was like, hey, that's mybottle.
Yeah boy, you see, this is myproblem.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
I want to come out of the car telling people that I
was like, hey, I build thebottle and then Sinewave, they
did the wrap and they covered itand they installed it of course
.
I produced them with the bottle, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
I guess the Sine companies will be working closer
to them all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Yeah, like a lot of bottles from Angostura, the huge
bottles that you see fromAngostura that came from us.
All of them are going to bestyrofoam.
It would be fiberglass.
Okay, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
So fiberglass would be like just a little more
permanent if it had to be therelonger or it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Yes, that's the only time we use glass is if it's
going to be there in the weather, taking weather for years and
that kind of thing.
So that's the only.
There's a lot of Christmasinsulation.
We use some fiberglass because,and so forth, they'll be out in
the weather.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Yeah, gotcha, gotcha, but it's not something that we
do like all the time.
I understand, I understand, butlisten, just know the
affordable imports.
People go and run me out ofhere and I might keep it here a
whole day if I get the chance.
But this is a huge amount oflearning for me because I'll
tell you, even in preparing totalk to you, it takes to make
these things.
I saw you, know you.

(01:04:10):
Just the finished product isall I want to see it's like.
I can't wait to see what itcome out like.
So just hearing about what goesinto the background of it is
impressive.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
So we don't just do one thing, because we kind of
being labeled as the personwho's do CIC, fet.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Of course I would imagine Right quite a bit of
other things too.
Yeah, it's one of the thingsabout being in the background in
industries.
You know people will see andenjoy your work and then it's
hard to tie together.
So if you need to hire somebodyto come and tell people is all
you do it, let me know.
I could come and flag peopleand tell them, of course.
I could let it be known.
Yes, I have one more questionbefore you go.

(01:04:47):
What's the likelihood you thinkagain Janine on camera the next
time you come here?
What do you feel?
On a scale of 1 to 10, janine,what's the likelihood again
you're on camera the next time?
Let's see how aligned you arewith these answers.
What's the likelihood againyou're on camera the next time?
Felicity silence.
Well, listen, I want to thankyou a lot, millian.

(01:05:08):
This was great.
I think it's a lot that peoplecould learn from it and I
appreciate your point and allthe other things that you all
work on, because it's a vastfield and I hope it continues to
grow.
I hope some of the things youall talk about come true.
Thanks a million.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
I appreciate it.
You're most welcome, thank you.