Episode 228 | David Rudder - Corie Sheppard Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Corie (00:16):
So, listen, we're going back into the territory of
royalty.
I want to welcome Dr King DavidMichael.
How are you going, sir?

Rudder (00:24):
I'm going good super.

Corie (00:27):
You're going good.
You're looking good.
I was telling you before Istarted.
I was macroing last night and Isee you taking a performance on
Nigel Campbell's birthday.
Happy belated to him.
How was that?

Rudder (00:36):
It was great.
It was just a passage, just tosay happy birthday.

Corie (00:39):
I want to start there.
It passed you to say happybirthday, but you do a few.
Yeah, it seemed like a manliked to surprise people.
My last guest here was OzzyMerrick.
Right, ozzy Merrick, have astory to tell about you and
surprising him.
Back in the day he came to youto borrow an outfit.
He was performing in party timeand he was doing lip syncing a
David Rudder song.

(01:00):
You remember that story?
Yeah, and he said it was soeasy.
It sounds so strange, like topick up the phone and call David
Rudder.
You know it sounds like adifficult thing to do.
It's a normal thing.
People will just usually callhim Any help, any help they need
.
Yeah, that's nice, thoughthat's nice.
So he told me he was shockedwhen he reached party time
finals and people startedwhispering oh David Rudder, here
, david Rudder, but I see you doFreetown Collective that this

(01:21):
year too.
Yeah, how did that come about?
Ozzy said he didn't know youwere going to come.
It was Ozzy Merrick's show.
He said he didn't know you weregoing to be here.

Rudder (01:28):
No, I came.
I actually went home, uh-huh,and I told my son.
I said I want to use thewashroom, so you set this whole
thing up.
So I walked to the washroom, oh, and at the same time the man
started talking about it.
So I told him that the girl wasthere.

(01:51):
I come into the washroom, AllI'm running from the washroom to
them.
In the past I see so I said no,I'll say you know what this is
our vibe here.
Yeah, you know.
So I guess.

Corie (02:03):
I see Mohammed Nearly fall down.
The whole place In tears Isright here.
Special show, special show anda special song too.
One of the songs I plan to talkto you About today, but how you
felt About Freetown Doing thatsong so closely related To High
Mass.

Rudder (02:17):
Those chords Are like the master chords To me.
When you play those chords itbrings a certain joy in the
spirit.
People want to hear that tune,you know, as opposed to some
others.
But my dream is that, like theyounger ones, listen to what I
have to say and do their ownthing, not what I do.

(02:41):
What do I have to do?
Yeah, of course, of course sothen, when all these things
happen, I say that's the path,that's the reason that the music
lives of course, yeah, and yougive it.

Corie (02:49):
You give it that strength , which is nice to see.
You're connecting with them andthat kind of thing.
I think it's beautiful for thenation to see that and the
region to see it when they seepeople like you connect with and
it's good to hear that that isone of your vision for the music
as well.
But I hope you appreciate howdifficult it is to touch your
music.
I was listening and I realizedpeople don't just do remix of

(03:10):
David Rudder songs.
They might do songs that intribute or similar or same chord
structure, but they can't singthem over.
Yeah, there could be someproblems.
I don't know how well it willcome over, but I had to tell you
about a story with me and youin kaiso blues too.
You know, because you do methat in my own way too.
You know.
I know it was the most pleasantsurprise.
I was nervous like hell.
My father and I have a band thatwe play, ken kobe and friends.

(03:31):
Ken kobe is his name and wewere doing a show in kaiso blues
.
We do kaiso all the time, we docalypso all the time and we
were doing road march throughthe years.
I think we started just beforeIndependence and came up to 1990
, I believe.
And we went through.
Of course we had to passthrough your songs to get there
right, the 86 as well.
And as soon as we finishedperforming, I see you walking up
to the stage.

(03:52):
I thought you was going toswing at me, you know, because
amongst the wrong chord andwrong notes I hit something.
But I asked you how you find itwas and it was nice.
So it's always nice that youshow up for these kind of things
.
I know, I know Kaiso Blues isyour spot.
That is, that is a lineman spot.
Yeah.

Rudder (04:06):
Carl and I when we talk about doing something in trade.
That was the dream, Right, yeah.

Corie (04:11):
You know, okay, so.
So that's something you've allbeen talking about for some time
.

Rudder (04:15):
Yes, I see all the trades of the business in Miami,
right, you know Pecknards andall these places.
Okay, he was kind of catchingon.
That's a hit.
So it just brought more of thatexpertise into Tysa Blues and
take it to the next level.

Corie (04:35):
Yeah, this definitely is our next level.
It's really nice to see whenyou're walking through the
murals and the tribute that paidto all the people who came
before as he entered, so it'sbeautiful.
Now, going back a little bit,before I touch on Haimas, I want
to talk about Ozzy and thatborrowing of clothes.
He was a man of style eversince.
Where did you get that sense offashion and everything from?

Rudder (04:54):
When I started, when I entered the competition, I said,
well, I had to get outfit, youknow.
So there's a guy, they're not.
They passed away now ClaudeAdam and Jeffrey Sanford.
They made this thing for me,you know.

Corie (05:11):
That's the yellow suit.
That's the yellow thing.

Rudder (05:13):
Which one do you hope to ?
Probably raffle it or something?

Corie (05:18):
The raffle that'll stay on display.
That'll be something that everychild that ever born in this
country and region should beable to see.
You know, Important, important,important.
So you keep a lot of thoseoutfits.

Rudder (05:29):
Some of them.

Corie (05:30):
Yeah.

Rudder (05:30):
Some owners went with them.

Corie (05:32):
Like Ozzy.

Rudder (05:36):
Ozzy brought back his official.

Corie (05:37):
He did say so.
He did say so.
He did say so.
He told me.
He told me he bring it back.
Ozzy, you're right, you tellthe truth.
We can't tell him.
I go out saying this.
You tell the truth.
That is not bad.
Now, high Mass is something Ihear you in a previous interview
say.

Rudder (05:53):
You write that song at nine years old, yeah yeah, when
I went to Belmont I was baptizedin Anglican and then my
grandmother baptized me in theBaptist church, I see.
But when I was ready to go toschool, father Graham said they
weren't boys, you see.
So Father Graham said you can'tcome to this school unless

(06:16):
you're a Catholic.
So they come and they do athird one.
So I used to go to the churchand music was so much a part of
my spirit that while everythinggoing on I was listening to the
Gregorian chant.
You know, dominus Wobbys,cummings, cumperitus Utu, and I

(06:37):
think all the songs and themusic inside here quite an
eloquent song.

Corie (06:42):
Yes, of course.

Rudder (06:43):
People making the song across the kneeling five times,
strap again, sit down for twominutes and then you rap again.
I just there checking the music.

Corie (06:52):
You waiting for when that call and answer come?

Rudder (06:55):
Even the bell when they're doing the extreme action
.
Mm-hmm, the arm sorry, not theextreme action.

Corie (07:03):
And now you're acting like a completely non-religious
man when they shake the incenseoh alright, there's a little
bell in the ring yes, yes,alright, yeah, yeah, that's the
story, all that all these thingsattract me, you know.

Rudder (07:18):
So it's like, while people pray and things, I check
it out.
That song was inside of me fora long time.
Yeah, so praying and checkingout that song was inside of me
for a long time.

Corie (07:24):
Yeah, so that influence of religion in your music came
from you loving the music andreligion.
Yeah, yeah, same thing with theShango Baptist, and so, yes, so
you paying attention to whenthe music comes.
Yeah, so what made it the righttime at that time to revisit
High Mass?

Rudder (07:47):
Um, it was.
How would that happen?
I just told my wife.
I said you know, I feel this isthe time for High Mass.
She never liked that songbecause she took it because I,
you know she's a a sacrilege.
Yeah.
So I said no, this is the righttime for this.
You know, know, and that's.
I wrote this song in a fewminutes because it actually took

(08:08):
a couple decades to form.
It's right there for me all thetime.

Corie (08:15):
So I always tell people the fastest ones, the fastest
songs that come, the ones thatcome in three minutes, those are
the ones that there's theclassics, yeah, but when those
are the ones that there's theclassics, yeah, but when at a
time keep in mind that mid 90s Iwas a teenager, but there used
to be a time when calypsonianssing or anything to do with
religion or use things like thechants, they used to get a lot

(08:36):
of backlash in the papers.
You would hear the religiousbuddies come out.

Rudder (08:39):
You used to get that also yeah, there's a lot going
on too.
There's a pro and con you know,but at the end of the day,
music.
You know all I was trying tosay to people who don't want to
come out and take a little partyand jam and everything, because

(09:00):
this is so blasphemous, right,because this field is so
blasphemous, right, and it's aCatholic festival, right,
because, anyway, that's whythere's no, there's no cannibal
in, in, in, jobmaker, or Babelyeah, no, this strong Catholic
influence.
They're more Anglican, you know,but anyway there's a Catholic
influence.
Yeah, that's what what thewhole cannibal scene is about,

(09:23):
of course, the yeah, that's whatthe World Carnival scene is
about.

Corie (09:24):
Of course, the significance of Ash Wednesday
and Lent to follow as well,you're giving yourself to the
things of the flesh, mm-hmm.

Rudder (09:28):
And then you say farewell to the flesh.
That's what Carnival means,mm-hmm.

Corie (09:33):
You know, got you, of course, carnival, the word
itself, yeah yeah, farewell to.
I remember people talking aboutit again polarizing.
But a lot of the fat goers say,boy, this man, everybody giving
praise.
In the middle of the fat Mendancing tempo, people sweating.
When you come on the stages, ahman, everybody give praise.
You expected that reaction.
You have a good sense when youwrite a song.

Rudder (09:54):
Yeah, I expected that.

Corie (09:55):
Yeah, it's interesting to hear you say that.
So when you write generally,you're pretty sure about what,
what sure about what, what yourresponse was going to be some
songs, like Bayagil, I kneweverybody said that's too slow,
that's too slow, the biggestroadmatch you know.

Rudder (10:12):
Because I felt I said this tune is a jumbie tune, this
tune has something that youknow.
So said so, done so sometimes Iget, I get these songs and I
say this one, you, you know,mm-hmm, it's a big one.

Corie (10:28):
It's a big one, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So as I bring it back here, gil, let me talk about it now,
because I grew up in a house,and the more you talk to people
here, where the older guy atthat time, who was the
Calypsonians and the Bards, themmen and them, say I had an
uncle and a grandfather who usedto tell me, david, you're
singing ballad.
I must be five, six years old.
I didn't know what the wordballad meant.
I had to ask them, well, what'sa ballad?

(10:48):
And I couldn't understand whythey say you're singing ballad
because them time your music istop of the chart.
I born in 1980, so I come thatpeople was telling you on that
kind of thing at the time thatyou're not singing calypso yeah,
that whole.

Rudder (11:04):
I still hear about the ballad.
In front with that roaring lion, he's the one who'll say this
is this sort of ballad structureand very knowledgeable.
I didn't have that time, I justwant to play Right.

Corie (11:20):
You know, mm-hmm.

Rudder (11:21):
So, and I think the reason I I like with the
character music itself.
I pour so much of myself inthat song because of this
backlash Mm-hmm of me being inthe crown and the gold rush and
everything Mm-hmm.
So I said I had to writesomething that let them know

(11:41):
that I know what they're talkingabout, something that parts of
me that I don't know yet willcome out in the summer too.

Corie (11:50):
Well, let's talk about that, Because we'll go 87 before
we go 86.
Then Because you won everythingin 86.
You came back as King Rudder in87.
And I heard you say as wellthat you write Calypso music
just after that, after you won.
Yeah, so you're taking it tothem, you're letting them know
what it is, because next mantake it to you in that
competition.
And when my grandmother nowbless her soul, she say I don't

(12:10):
like this, but here, gail, it'snot too much a bam bam.
Everything is bam bam in hissong.
And then Gypsy now had sung.
I think the song is Ram Bam Ram.
Bam felt when he sang Rambam itdidn't matter to me either, only
in the same tent and thing atthat time.
But I suppose at that time youclosed in the tent yeah, I
suppose yeah, so he had to singthat.

(12:31):
And you go and come here.
You have a chance to respond.
So this song for people whodon't know what to do, again
with the formula to win a crongdown in Port of Spain.
Every year I come in herestrong, I sing in a powerful
song.
Not for hell they wouldn't giveme the calypso crong, uh-huh.

(12:51):
But my good, good partner tellme, hey, what you doing wrong.
Gypsy, you have too much lyricsin your melody.
You know what I mean.
Everybody love your tune andthey know that you could croon.
So sing this one.
And they know that you can't gowrong sing rambam.
So it's a direct response,though.
But here, gil, well, funnyenough.
I think calypso, as you say,your two songs in 87 was calypso

(13:14):
and dedication, right two.
To me it's some of the mostmasterful writing you would ever
.
Hear you saying you writecalypso fast.
Calypso was one of them.
They write in a short space oftime, serious.
Yeah, well, funny enough.
That song he plays second tostalin.
Stalin had bunned them, and Ibelieve mr pan makeup, yeah, big
, big, uh, win for him at thattime.
He won before you and after you, and I always want to ask you

(13:37):
before we get into the songitself, there's a moment that
you see now where they wererunning down.
Who, uh, the, the, the winnersthen.
And of course, then theyannounced third place and it
ended up being you and Stalin,right, and it was announced
David Rudder second and Stalinfirst.
And I always remember thevisual of that moment, with
Stalin Rudder jumping on thestage.

(13:58):
But just after that I see youcoming on the stage running him
down, almost to hug him up andembrace him and congratulate him
.
What was that moment like foryou?
You wasn't feeling no way aboutcoming second on that point.

Rudder (14:07):
No, I think everything worked out in a proper way.
The country was so polarized atthe time.
Either I'd rather write orReally yeah, or Stalin.
Yeah, stalin must be the wholeother.
You Stalin.
Yeah, stalin was the old author.

(14:28):
So I always say that I'm a fanof Stalin because he's a man
who's thinking about what we'regoing to say, thinking kind of
person.
But I think people got a littlelaugh.
Who the hell did Nick Gacyremember him?
The people got a little.
Who the hell did they think itwas?
You know?
So, this, they had this.

(14:50):
Everything was tension in theair, you know.

Corie (14:55):
So I always look back and I say that was the perfect
result yeah, you find so yeah,yeah, that is amazing that you
would think like that.
You know, sometimes you hearpeople lost and they're vexed.
You know when men come secondthey're pleased.
The judges rub them and things.
So you never felt that way.
You had that reverence forStalin all through the years.
Yes, yeah, because I rememberit saying as well that you

(15:16):
started off doing backup,singing in the tent and that
kind of thing, so you were thebackup for Stalin.

Rudder (15:19):
Yeah, we did.
The album Caribbean Unity Songsof the Caribbean man and Time,
and Black man Gets Up.
All the songs of that album.
Your vocals, though we did CarlCaron and myself, we did the
background vocals, right, right,mostly every kind of Carl Caron
at that time.
We were the background vocals.

Corie (15:42):
Yeah in studio, in studio , yeah, oh, nice, nice, nice.
So you had that respect andreverence for all these fellas.
But it's surprising to hear yousay that, even though you had
that, and the fellas say you'resinging ballads, you're
inserting them, your focus isthe music.
Yeah, so, calypso music.
It's hard for me to imaginewriting that song in the
shortest space of time.
Space outside, such anintricate song and so much, so

(16:02):
much happening in this song.

Rudder (16:04):
Yeah, because it's a history.
I love history, you know.
So I've always like checked outwhat Castle was doing in this
period, what was going on in theworld, and so on, you know.
So I had all the informationinside my head, it's just, it's
just to put it out there, right?
And then the magic thing aboutthis thing is the opening line.
Up to now, nobody can find anopening line.

(16:27):
That opening line can you hearthe sound of a drum bouncing on
the last of a melody?
I don't know where it comesfrom.

Corie (16:33):
You don't know where it comes from.

Rudder (16:35):
That's when you know.

Corie (16:36):
It good.

Rudder (16:37):
The music finds you.
You didn't find the music.
The music finds you.

Corie (16:40):
I understand there's a poet on youtube these days.
I felt my name is darren sandy.
He said it would never bereplicated, that opening line oh
, you saw that.
You saw it yeah yeah, yeah, andhe's professional.
He studied the thing, yeah, andhe said it could never be
replicated, even if I have alittle quattro.
So what was it?
And I forget.
You know, I want to play a fewwith you, you know.
But, um, that is one way, evenwhen, when, when you say

(17:02):
bouncing on the laughter of amelody, when you're playing the
music, it has a certain bounceto it, even in the way the
chords bounce around and youthink All that is part of the
writing process for you, interms of arranging the song,
writing the lyrics and so on.
Yeah, so these things, when youwrite it, jay-z does say he
don't write nothing, he go inhis studio and he sing.
You used to write it all.

Rudder (17:23):
Sometimes, if I have three or four songs put down, I
say let me put some directly, Iput some, do some.
Sometimes it's just a placebothing.
Fuck, until I.
That is, that is wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait.
No placebo, this is the thingitself, you know.

Corie (17:43):
It's our use.
So that's that was yourapproach.
Yeah, that's the approach.
Well, I had to ask you know ifyou have some of them papers and
them scripts around, becausethat's how the yellow suit go in
.

Rudder (17:54):
Well, I have a lot of that Right now in the process of
books.
A lot of people from NorthAmerica Books, a lot of people
from North America Trinidad.
They want to write, focus oncertain songs.

Corie (18:09):
Of course.
I'm going to be writing myautobiography.

Rudder (18:15):
Oh, nice congrats.
Hopefully by January next year.
Beautiful congrats.
So a lot of work will be there.
I have 50 of my songs in themusic book.
Well, there's 50 more.
So you have the lyrics and youhave the quotes.

Corie (18:34):
Oh, beautiful Quote charts.
That is nice.
That is nice.
That is nice Because there aresome men who contribute to them,
quote charts I want to talkabout as well.
That's special.
So Calypso Music came second.
Well, calypso music along withdedication, but it was treated
very kindly by history.
People say it's the best songhe ever had.
You agree with that?
You consider that your bestsong, people?

Rudder (18:54):
say so.
People say who says the bestone too?
Yeah, the point is that if youmeet 10 people, 8 people out of
the 10 will say this is the bestsong ever, Right?
And then you have to say toyourself well, if they say if
people say this is the best song, who am I?

Corie (19:16):
No, we want to know what you find is the best song.
Who are you?
You have to decide.

Rudder (19:19):
It's like picking who's your best child, too hard to
pick.
I say picking who's your bestchild Too hard to pick, too hard
to pick.

Corie (19:26):
The youth nowadays do a thing they call a monk rushmore,
where they call the four best.
You have a four best in mind.

Rudder (19:32):
Hmm.

Corie (19:36):
Still too hard to pick, too hard to pick.
Your fellas can't look too big,you see, can't look too big and
I guess the contribution of itis great.
So Cal big and I guess thecontribution of it is is great.
So calypso music is 80 percentof the people telling you that
that's, that's the best one.
Now I have a verse in that, asdarren sand.
This is the opening of the song.
That first verse is magical.
I think, the whole first verse,this song itself, along with

(19:56):
the arrangement and so on.
But there's a, there's a partof this song I believe is the
last verse, where you say fromthe time the first bamboo cut
and you drag it down from the StAnne's Hills.
You say from the time the firstchant well, leave the band.
The real jamming starts.
And today we jamming still.
It's something I've been pauseraising as I talk about it

(20:16):
because I hear 30 years from1987.
Ultimate Rejects and MaximusDan come and win road match with
a song named Jamming Still.
And you emphasize that linewhen you do it.
You say Jamming Still.
I say Jamming Still.
That last verse was just yourode to the origins of Calypso.

Rudder (20:34):
Yeah.

Corie (20:35):
Because the visual nature you're writing is something
else.

Rudder (20:38):
See, calypso is a mother music, so it will always
manifest in a different form asthe generations go on.
It's like an amoeba it sucks inthe next new cell and it braces
it and splits into two again,but it's still calypso.
But it won't be what I do orwhat Sparrow do, or what Lion

(21:01):
and Kitch do or that kind ofthing.
It'll just be.
You hear parts of that kind ofthing.
It just means you hear parts ofthat spirit inside of it.
Yeah, I think that's whattradition really means to go
forward.
So you're doing things whateveryou've learned before, before.
You're not ready to manifestthose things that you've learned

(21:22):
in your own way.
So you carry on the tradition,but it's not the same thing that
people expect you to.

Corie (21:31):
This is what.

Rudder (21:33):
John.

Corie (21:33):
Buddy Williams did.

Rudder (21:35):
This is what I do, but you can hear the influence of
so-and-so inside it.
That's how I see it.

Corie (21:41):
That's a real interesting way to see it.
That's a real interesting wayto see it For me.
If you'd asked me before whatis tradition, I would have said
backward looking.
But I like the way you put it.
Tradition is actually it'sforward moving.

Rudder (21:50):
I think the Greek word tradé, or something, means to go
forward, I suppose.
I suppose, so in that tradition, you have like you could have
somebody, I'll you have, likeyou know you could have somebody
.
You have something.
You know his name is Mozart.

(22:10):
His name is Mozart, you know.

Corie (22:14):
Let me hear what he has to say of course every society I
go to, you find somebody who gosomewhere else but still stays
in the in the groove, you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, I see what you
say, that time in your career,kind of defined by that, because

(22:36):
you are the one who well,pushing the boundary, you know,
like some of the youths doingnow as youths would typically do
, you making it different butpurposefully so right.
Going back to that Calypsoverse, you say rhythms that
could be deadly.
Like Headley I think you'rereferencing George Headley.
Yeah, they say he's a man.
When he done bat the ball uplong.
This is the most aggressivebatsman West Indies ever seen.

Rudder (22:57):
Yeah, and then the whole idea about Calypso cricket, you
know, I suppose.
So I say that's trying to getinto the mix too.
You know, mm-hmm.

Corie (23:08):
Now the thing about that is, when you reference things
like that, it's important foryou, as you carry forward the
tradition, to document some ofthose things that came before
you.
It seems to be a theme througha lot of your songs.

Rudder (23:18):
Yeah.

Corie (23:19):
You're teaching.

Rudder (23:20):
Yeah, but it's more than teaching, you know, I think I
just love history so much thatit comes out and people say,
well, you know, we can take thatand actually study it as a
historical piece, gotcha, youknow.
So I want to say a specialthanks to all the teachers who
over the years have been, youknow, using my songs, good,

(23:42):
using Calypso as a whole, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
The TC children.
You know, there's a wholegeneration who don't even know
who David was.

Corie (23:49):
I don't think so, but I'm with you.

Rudder (23:50):
I'm telling you.
And then there's anothergeneration, younger than that
generation.
Everybody knows who David Ruzzais.
Yeah, so, and the only reasonwhy I'm still around with
producing shows is becausethere's city-age groups coming
to the show Mm and those whocall me uncle, those are the
ones who I used to go to everyschool in Trinidad.
I see and perform for them andtalk to them, talk and things

(24:13):
you know.
And the teachers always say now, Uncle David is here, If
anybody makes any noise, we willcall it off and send them home.
Yeah, Hands up out.
So the whole good day, UncleDavid Beautiful.
So the whole Uncle DavidBeautiful.
So now these big hardback men,Uncle, Uncle.

Corie (24:35):
That man is my age now.
He's Uncle David still.

Rudder (24:38):
I know the different groups by how they call you.
I suppose there's some peoplewho do shows like in Normandy.
I think they bring their wholefamily.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, All thelittle children Two year old,
with nobody, I think With thewhole family.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, All thelittle children two-year-olds
three-year-olds, everybody.
So it's like having a next setof people who kind of check in
about you, check out what you do.

Corie (24:58):
And in this digital era, where it's a little easier now
you don't have to run by therecord stores to buy records you
could hear a lot of it onlineif you're interested in it.
So, yeah, that idea of document.
Happy to hear you say that.
Um, I wish personally one of mywishes, and why I do this is
because I feel like these piecesthat you would have written,
along with many other people, inyour time and now that should

(25:19):
be what we teach us englishliterature.
I don't know what you'resupposed to call it, if it's
caribbean literature or englishliterature, I don't care what
you call it but I find it umdisheartening sometimes that a
little child will not.
They would teach me Macbeth andI couldn't understand those
things.
You know, when it looks like Iget to live with them, I
couldn't understand it, but Iknow.
When my mother had thatcassette in the 80s, I
understand, and you're right interms of the tradition where the

(25:40):
way I understood those songsback then I understand and hold
on to different parts of it.
No, because I'm a little fellow.
I only want to hear you say thepart where you turn a woman's
body into jelly.
That's the only part I want tohear.
But no, I'm married and I can'tlisten to it.
But you went on in that to saythe lyrics and the melodies were
sending this whole to theboundary.

(26:01):
So, even though you're sayingthat you're very, very close to
the history, you were always upto date with current affairs.
Is this something you pay a lotof attention to Now also?

Rudder (26:12):
Always, every day, every day, the whole the horror in
the Middle East, russia, ukraine, haiti.
You know a lot of these things.
As I mentioned Haiti, peoplemust be shocked to know that
back in the 87, sorry when Ireleased Haiti.
People must be shocked to knowthat back in 87 in the year
sorry when I released Haiti, thesong was so big that when we go

(26:38):
, when we play in Fats, we saywait till 2 o'clock in the
morning and we say, alright, letme crowd, alright, we want to
touch all the other more.
You won't believe Haiti used totouch a little more.
You will believe Hetty used tobe the big song In Fetz.
In Fetz and you see the wholein those days.
Now you would see mostly heads.

(26:58):
People had their heads likethis.
People just feel the music.
This is the hand period now.
The old Fetz used to be head.

Corie (27:05):
Yeah, you see the head moving.

Rudder (27:06):
And it was hand.
So you see the whole crowd,just people just floating like
I'm sorry, you know.
Sometimes they say, but whathappened?
We're not playing the tune youknow we want it we want it.
And that album had PanamaBacana Lady.

(27:28):
You know you want it, you wantit.
And that album had PanamaBacchanal Lady, you know.

Corie (27:32):
Madman Rant no, not Madman Rant.
Um, going mad Madness.
Madness was before.
Madness was before.
Yeah, okay, that would be.
The Gilded Collection is whatcollected.
Put all them together.

Rudder (27:42):
Yeah, madness was um the same year when, when Madness
was the same year when talentstarted.
Oh I see, yeah, I was going todo madness and calico music.
Oh I see, really, but an oldjudge passed it.
You know, madness, have a wholebrass lego part.

Corie (28:03):
Right, I know those points might cost you, so maybe
you should go and do dedication.
You regret it.

Rudder (28:13):
Well, I regret it in the sense that I lost my voice
because I was going to schoolsand visiting so and then they
postponed the show to the laston the program.
So I'm in Savannah since 7o'clock and it's going on 11
o'clock now.

(28:33):
I'm going on stage and I stillhave Gary Dawson producing
production and everything.
And he says, sit down in thecar and leave the air
conditioner on.
And when I come outside Icouldn't talk.
His bad mind made me say yeah,that night in Toronto.

Corie (28:53):
Really.

Rudder (28:54):
Yeah, I couldn't talk.

Corie (28:57):
For both songs this is Both songs.

Rudder (28:59):
Yeah, but I'm supposed to ease up a bit.
Yeah, because I get thededication out, but I couldn't
say this is a notion ofdedication, because you know,
interested, interested, madnesson it, and it was actually one
that was going with.

Corie (29:14):
Does the next one take a short time to write too?

Rudder (29:16):
Yeah, yeah, because times it's really I just I dread
something else it's.
It's about this societybreaking up.

Corie (29:26):
Yeah, it's about this society breaking up.
Yeah, the real social communityRight.

Rudder (29:28):
Mm-hmm.
Everybody mad, but there'snobody.
You know, people mad, but theydon't know they're mad, yeah,
and that'll make it look notnormal, you know, but you know
it's like.
So I was just talking about allthe, you know, talking about
the gas station, gene Right,gene Miles, of course, who tried
to do anti-corruption campaign.

(29:50):
She paid the price for that,Mm-hmm, you know.
But the union man, the Frenchbusiness man, the girl from Holy
Name, all these degrees andpasses she got me.
The dude worker yeah, I see,pep.
Yeah, of course you know, witha dude worker.
Yeah, I see, pep.
Yeah, of course you know.
So it's like everything that'sgone totally crazy.

Corie (30:10):
Everything I've tried, though.

Rudder (30:11):
Yeah, but.

Corie (30:12):
I luckily I'm sane, but you're insane.
You stormed the fed.
You say you jumped the water,so you're sane.
You come in and see mad people.

Rudder (30:21):
All right, we're going to hear.

Corie (30:24):
Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine writing that song in a
short piece of time.
It's a part where you say youhave an old French Creole man, I
think.
No, not Brown, the one namedPierre.
Oh, that's somebody.
That's.
You're talking about realpeople in these songs.
When you're thinking of names,it's people.

Rudder (30:43):
Yeah, french Coup was the man who constantly in those
days would come on and heightenhis society.
You know, right, all the bigbusinesses and so on.
So he now his business gonethrough because he's just
falling apart.
You know so, he and he and who?
He drinking pepper sauce andthings.
So you know so he likes to hugup the union man now, yeah,

(31:08):
usually his rival, you know, whowants more money for the
workers.
You know so he hugged the unionman.

Corie (31:13):
You know you have to hug the union man and hug up second
to second.

Rudder (31:15):
And everybody just thinks this is not a festival,
this is madness.
And they're saying that, youknow, but they realize they're
really mad.

Corie (31:24):
Of course, yeah, now you're making me realize.

Rudder (31:26):
And then you know, I remember Wayne Brown saying I
wish that song was another yearbecause I really think NRL has
come into power.
He said everything that didn'tget a raw deal right Because our
society wasn't the same.
Oil went up to 12,000 barrelsand all kinds of things like

(31:50):
that.
It kind of adds to the wholescene.
So when things go crazy and AbuBakr and everything you know,
people go back and say madness.
This is the end product of themadness song.

Corie (32:07):
You know it might be one of them songs.
Go back and say, madness, thisis the end product of the
Madness song.
You know it might be one ofthem songs you could probably
sing and he'd give me an introand that you could sing that now
.
You could sing that now andchange up some names, it'd be
the same thing most of the songsMadman Rant.

Rudder (32:21):
All the people say that's an old song.
You're getting young in thatvideo that song was 40 years old
.

Corie (32:29):
I thought that was releasing in the 90s.
No, that wasn't after.
That was that, was that, wasthat was what?
30, something, 30 years ago?
Yeah, probably 30.
Probably 30, yeah, but aroundthat time, yeah.
So you struggled through.
I mean.
So, Abicalib, so, as you say,it landed landed real, real,
favorably, in your catalog, andthere's a verse in there as well
.
I wanted to ask you aboutbecause I suppose I understand
even before I ask you where someof the names you're calling

(32:51):
this song Sparrow, beginner,Executor, kitchener you had a
lot of names Spoiler.
Might it be some of the samepeople who were going to be
saying, or their cohort saying,that it's ballads, it's
deliberate, you just wanted topay homage to them.

Rudder (33:06):
Peacock is nothing to me .

Corie (33:08):
Yeah, michelin Pekong is nothing to me.

Rudder (33:09):
Yeah, no, I'll give you a joke.
When they are saying BayerGuild people, they are talking
this song and think like that,like that, you know, gypsy, of
course, sing this thing.
So a man tell me, say I don't,say I don't.
Say you see that song BayerGuild, they should take the
brother and put him.
A man told me I don't, say Idon't, say I don't say, he said
that's how you buy a girl.

(33:31):
They should take your brotherand put him on one side of the
of the small island and all he'ssinging.
All he's singing is bim bim,bim, bim, bim, bim, bim, bim,
bim, bim, bim bim bim.
And he said, and I'll getwaters, but she was like la la
la la la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la la la la la la la la la
la la la, la, la la, la, la, la,la la la, la, la, la, la, la,
la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la,la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la,
la, la, la, la la.

Corie (34:04):
But you ain't got no horrors.
You laughing them thing, that'sfunny.
Men taking them thingpersonally.
Now, you know Men ain't likethat.
You can't say that monoman songnow, so that homage, you could
hear it.
Even the way you arrange theverses and the way you call the
names, I always love the partwhere you say spoilers I want to

(34:25):
fall.
You know you make themconnections with people.
It's almost like you're givingus some history in a sense.
But we had to do some researchto figure out some of the things
you know.
You had to do some deeperreading or thinking.

Rudder (34:36):
Yeah, I just got a book from Kevin Brown.
He's just part of the book onkinds of song itself yeah, I
must check it out.

Corie (34:45):
So powerful, powerful song now Dedication was the
other song that year.
Yeah, and after you call allthem names in Calypso when you
went to Pan man Dedication yousay not one name, will I call
right again.
Quick song.
You write in terms ofDedication or that is one that
you.
That's a quick one we didn'tfind one, one that you take long
to write yet, but we go ahead.

Rudder (35:06):
At the end of the day, I kind of went against that same
line of not calling a namebecause but I did call a name.
I said in the end we shallspree, we shall shine like
silver stars, you know, as weget to phase two.
And so I incorporated all thebands of course they hide it.

Corie (35:27):
So what turned out?
So it's incorporated into allthe bands.
Of course they hide it.
So what turned out to be asecond place might be one of the
biggest, one of my favoritesongs by Utah.
I'll tell you which was myfavorite before we're done.
I have it down as the bestpiece of writing I ever hear,
Going back to 86, so Bahia Galewas what it was.
Any truth to the story girlyou're meeting through.
You talk to and get theinspiration for yourself.

Rudder (35:46):
It was.
There was a girl, a Braziliangirl by the Bootsmans right, and
I said she's fiery, but thething about it is crazy didn't
have a producer at the end.
So Ellis Chaldinon was thechallenge to his manager.
I said why don't you write asong for juice?

(36:07):
Manager say, why don't youwrite songs for you?
Yeah, boy David, yeah boy David.
You know you'll be crazy, evenif he didn't want to he would
say yeah, boy, david, you're thebest so.
I wrote three songs for himMadness, jump Up Really and
Bahia Girl.

Corie (36:28):
I only know about Bahia girl.
It's the first time I hearmadness and jump up because it
was different.

Rudder (36:34):
In when I say it's such a madness, it was different
because I was too crazy.
Okay, he was crazy mad, so soit will be a kind of you know.

Corie (36:47):
I'll wait to hear anyway.

Rudder (36:49):
So then he had jump up, jump up.
I had a kick, you know, oh,it's here, anyway.
So then he had I had jump jump,jump up, jump up, shake your
body, jump up.
Please don't make me beg, makeme.
I'm talk every time I walkbefore I take off my shoes and
chuck you under your foot, youknow.
I, I'm thinking like crazy youknow I'm thinking like crazy
this is how crazy you say it.
And then Bahia girl he had a.

(37:13):
He had just done a chunk ofmuchacha for Christmas.
So I said that was the yearbefore.
So I said, well, this timeyou'll meet a Brazilian girl,
because that girl was fromVenezuela.
So he met a Brazilian girlBecause the original lyric was
this girl from Bahia staying inMoruga.
This lady, real lucky, shebumps up the crazy right.

Corie (37:36):
so when I put Sweet Me as a keep in the song as a keep in
the song, but she bumps up thecrazy.

Rudder (37:42):
But that man with that family, that really didn't waste
no time.
You can feel crazy, you know, Istudied him so, but everything
had to happen, how it happens,you know.
And he didn't waste no time.
You can feel crazy, you know, Istudied him so, but everything
had to happen, how it happens,you know.

Corie (37:53):
He's talking about that now.
He's not telling you how muchhe regrets, or something.
Only cool, yeah.
Yeah, I hope to get him hereone day and ask him about that.
There's something else.
So he just didn't feel like hewas fit.

Rudder (38:06):
No, he didn't say anything, but he's joking.
He rejected songs, but he had asong that he called Soka Tazan.
Mm-hmm, I remember yeah, awuwa,which is a song we had with
Joel Jungle Fever.
Okay, okay.
So I said, look, you needJungle Fever to write a second
Jungle Fever, part 2.
And the result was Banya GillJump and you're pissed off with
Bahia.

Corie (38:26):
Gayle jump up and madness yeah, boy, so all them songs.
You write that same time yougive any of them songs yeah.
Jesus, wow, that is somethingelse.
Who would have thought?
I heard this story about BahiaGayle and realized it was true
at the time.
That's something else, so thatBahia Gayle I mean that again
treated well in history,regardless of what was, is up,
appreciate that you pushed theboundary and you went ahead with

(38:46):
it.
Your next song that year is manWith the Hammer.
It was a dedication to RudolfCharles.
So, rudolf Charles, you allwere friends.
That was a part dancing, youknow.

Rudder (38:56):
You must know Rudolf from a distance.
Rudolf was like a primeminister, you know.

Corie (39:07):
And Eric Williams I'm going up there, Rudolf and him,
you know and Eric Williams andhim going up there and Rudolph
and him you know, ThunderboltWilliams and Tom Cuddin and all
them guys in the hill.

Rudder (39:15):
You know so that Rudolph was.
He didn't make no nonsense,guys.
You know, and you say sometimespeople are stupid, mad, yeah

(39:36):
and that line actually hadstirred up some a bit of anger
or something in the community,because apparently he did hit
somebody with a hammer.
You know, I would say in hismind you have to be a stupid man

(39:57):
to cross me, you know.

Corie (40:01):
In that song you say trail, you say the man with the
hammer, in the end you sayCharlo.
You never really said RudolphCharles in the whole song.
Deliberate too, that was hisnickname.
So you went through the songwith the nickname.
But when they say the dragon towalk the trail, the dragon was
his nickname too.
The dragon was his nickname.

Rudder (40:17):
Yeah, Because they said partially the names, most of
them nothing that straight outof the thing.
It's a Caribbean thing too,because if you listen to other
singers you can know the samemovies.

Corie (40:29):
Jody.

Rudder (40:30):
Wales, and you know Louis Lepke right.
So all the whatever, but thesame theatre.
The same way too, whenDesperados' name was the Dead
End Kids.

Corie (40:41):
The Dead End Kids.
The Dead End Kids.
Okay, I never heard of theschool Gay Desperados, because
you know, if you saw Walk, okay,I never heard of it?

Rudder (40:48):
I've never heard of gay desperado, because the way
Rudolph used to walk they usedto say there's a movie called
Walk Like a Dragon, so they usedto call him Dragon.
And then there's another movie,cointrelle, the western with
Cointrelle, so they used to callhim Trail.
I see and I keep saying RudolphCharles, but not in the same

(41:09):
way of course, of course, ofcourse.
You know, yeah, hammer dragon,yeah because they call him
hammer, too right, of course no,that um again, many, many uh
ways you could see.

Corie (41:26):
Uh, in the songs that you write you pay homage.
The same thing we say aboutheadley and you pay homage a lot
.
In the songs that you write youpay homage, it's the same thing
we say about Headley.
You know you pay homage a lotin your songs, but there's a
visual nature that you'rewriting down to ask about where
in that song you describe thefuneral in a silver chariot
riding to the sun, you know,leaving fire in its wake,
spirits on the run.
That's just come naturally toyou to write, like because you

(41:47):
cannot help listening.
When you listen to music, youhave to see everybody must be
seeing something different intheir mind, but your mind can't
be blank when you're listeningto you well, the first thing
people used to say you writepoetry.
So I said bye, I don't knownothing about that, that's all I
naturally have right but youfeel it, you hear it in your

(42:09):
music all the time, yeah, sothat they say that, of course,
being who he was, fromLavantilla zone, the funeral.
The funeral was a scene, thefuneral was a spectacle.
Yeah, and you're there, soyou're kind of always right,
isn't it?
Yeah?

Rudder (42:24):
and the thing about it.
I bought a picture to bring himdown the hill, but it was about
20,000 people Canada you knowthis man, fidelio.
So I said but you know who will?

(42:44):
There were a lot of people thatkind of.
I think maybe the Pope now.

Corie (42:52):
Yeah, I suppose I was now thinking that in modern days
you mightn't get people foranybody.
So you're going into 86, youknow you're going into and 86, I
should ask you, is this thefirst time you entered in the
competition at all?

Rudder (43:04):
No, I entered the year before 85.
Oh, you were there.
I went to the semis.
They have a thing called theunattached.
Oh, okay okay, and I had jumpup and calabash.
Oh, that is it.

Corie (43:22):
And you went unattached.

Rudder (43:23):
I went unattached.
The judges say the only thingwe can put it through is because
, calabash, there's an oldcartoon.
Every single you should havecustom to drink in a calabash.

Corie (43:39):
That's the way they say it.

Rudder (43:40):
as an example, so they run around and they get the
calabash.
So they say you're almost there.
So I kind of now know whathappened.

Corie (43:53):
I see, I see, and it was.
What did they say originally?
Not for.

Rudder (43:56):
Well, in case of Max, oh , you couldn't have talked to
him.
No, the opposite of that now isbecause they argue that Bayer
Gild is such un-Kalebsu-Kalebsu.
There's a hundred points I see.
I see, when they started to badtalk the song, they're giving
him more points.
They realized that everythingwe say is what they're going to

(44:22):
mark as points, so they'regiving him a hundred percent on
every point, right?
So, and it was, I think it was18 points.
And now there's somebody by twoand a half points.

Corie (44:32):
Okay, okay, oh, it was that big of a victory.

Rudder (44:34):
I see, I see so because the bad talk, the thing was not
realizing what they were justlooking for.

Corie (44:43):
They helping you.

Rudder (44:44):
They helping me, you know.

Corie (44:48):
So you and them two perform until you know you have
them.
Basically yeah.

Rudder (44:53):
That's my feeling.
I say one thing needs another.
If they say the same, it's notso.

Corie (44:59):
I'm surprised to hear that, because I was looking and
I wasn't seeing any name in thefinals before.
So it really was just, and wasit just 85, 86, 87?
It?
So it really was just, and wasit just 85, 86, 87?
It was done after so deliberatedecision.
You just come out ofcompetition, or you just went to
prove that, or how come youjust stopped going.

Rudder (45:14):
I wanted to.
I've been playing all over theplace for about 20 years, you
know, and I don't think it's atthe next level now.
So I think the thing that Idon't think it's the next level
now, so I think the thing thatwill take me to the next level,
is Calypso.

Corie (45:31):
Monarch Right.

Rudder (45:33):
You know they're paying $2,500,000.

Corie (45:37):
Yeah the next level Right .

Rudder (45:41):
Now the same people.
One gets a million dollars.

Corie (45:43):
Yeah, a million dollars on ticket, you should go.

Rudder (45:47):
I think, if I won the road match, I came second or
something.
Yeah, you should go.
I say, if I won the roadmatch,I came second in the roadmatch
too.
Eh.

Corie (45:53):
Yeah, first and second.
It was Young Kings, Calypso,Monarch first and second in the
roadmatch and All-Stars play andwin Panorama.

Rudder (45:59):
Yeah, I would be working a couple million.
Yeah, boy you might have donesomething.
It's a good thing.
The thing about it is, sparrow,when the Kramani roadmatch was
that years before, I think, theysaid you get 250 US Serious.

Corie (46:15):
I think they said it was early 80s it started to change.
I remember somebody saying notme and the monarchy.
Let me just explain now Not meand the monarchy as a protest to
how small the money was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Interesting, interesting,interesting.
So at that point in time inyour career you're out of the
competition, but it seemed asthough you started to pivot, to
do more outside of Carnival, notjust do songs for Carnival.

(46:37):
Have you ever thought of yoursongs as just for Carnival?

Rudder (46:39):
No, I thought Carnival was the launching pad for the
new releases, but I didn't seethe songs as.
But I didn't see the songs aswell as when they know they have
to go back to playing X or Ymusic, as the case may be.
Right permission to mash up theplace On the Haiti album, it
was Haiti Panama Terminal, inthe Front Line, bacchanal Lady

(47:16):
and Rally Round the.
West Indies and Engine Room.
So all those songs, one song,one album, you know, and it
happens in such a strange waybecause Haiti.
You know, haiti came aboutbecause I was watching the fact

(47:38):
that Papa Doc was here and theson, the single last one I think
they're going to kick Baby Docout.
I was thinking to myself.
So, in the history of this, andso said, so done, the radio
stations had to play Haitibecause the world focused on
Haiti.

Corie (47:56):
Current affairs.
Current affairs.

Rudder (47:58):
So people all of the Caribbean were like we want
Haiti.
We want Haiti, you know.
And then, when it got close toCarnival, bacchanal ladies
started to come too, and Panamaall the steel bands went to
Panama.
There you are.
They call it Panama Rama.
Yeah, right, so one album, allthese songs just coming out, one

(48:23):
after the other, right, youknow?
And then after Carnival, cableand Wireless West.
Indies versus England.
That series Mm-hmm.

Corie (48:32):
Rally.
Yeah, I went rally, died awayThen.

Rudder (48:36):
Engine Room.
Phil Simmons started to playEngine Room Later on in the year
.
So that was one of the albumsthat was like a whole magical.
It was a magical moment, youknow.

Corie (48:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, welcome back.
Engine Room, to me, is the bestwriter in any song I've ever
heard.
If I ask my wife, my favorite,david, would be Engine Room.
I like to pretend when you say,corey, it's me you're talking
about, right?
So you say tradition, I caninterpret it my own way, right?
So I know it's Corey Fraser,but I'm going to say it's me for
this interview, right, butmasterful piece of writing.
Just Just to get back to thatpanorama with All Stars All

(49:15):
Stars would have been the onethat played the song.
How you felt about that at thetime, being that the song was
about a despot's man and aboutdespots on La Venta.
You think anything you feltabout that?

Rudder (49:23):
No, I think I always felt it would interfere with
Desperado's melancholy feel theyhad, because All Stars decided
to challenge Desperado's owntune, right, right, that
melancholy feel they had, youknow, because All Stars decided
to challenge the Desperados withtheir own tune, right, we will
play up, we will take all theirown tune and beat them.
So I think there's a tone thatgets from Desperados that you

(49:49):
don't get from other bands.
It's changing now, but it's amelancholy, according to the
owners, brothers, players, wedon't beat Pan we play Pan.

Corie (50:03):
Yeah, that was sweetness but it's an extra effort on on
Robbie and the boys up there,yeah, to get it done to get it
done.

Rudder (50:14):
You want to get it so perfect.

Corie (50:16):
Of course, yeah.

Rudder (50:17):
And smooth.
You know all starts, all startswith the.
The people saw the fresh band,yeah, yeah, yeah, come go crazy
on the stage fighting the night,mm-hmm and beat everybody.
And then they say beateverybody, mm-hmm.
And then they say beateverybody.
So I say well, where's Ossazbeen after?

Corie (50:35):
but when they play that night, yeah, they have a few
nights like that, just a littlesmooth.
They have some classic momentsin panorama.
Yeah, put something there yeah,go on with them.
So, yeah, proud, proud seasonfor you.
Actually, I was going to askyou about Haiti just because,
even in your writing, the wayyou approached social commentary
and, uh, political commentaryand stuff it, it it felt as if

(51:00):
you used to do not even doubleentendre, like a lot of people
do double entendre and stuff,but used to almost put the
message across in a way wherenumber one people could dance.
So when, when you say Haiti,I'm sorry, I never knew that was
something you're performing inFETS.
But that's something I want toask you about because a lot of
the things you have like look atHulsey X, strong political
commentary telling you exactlywhat's going on.

(51:21):
It was as live as it gets as anissue, but that go down with
the Hulsey and people mightremember the story about
Hulsey's protests and so on.
But you deliberately doingpolitical commentary in a style
where people could fetu.
That is from your band roots orwhere that came from.

Rudder (51:35):
I think it's from the band roots.

Corie (51:36):
Mm-hmm.

Rudder (51:38):
And you know Brecky always say um, you know they
always say Brecky is the artistwith the most personality in the
in the in history.
You can think about somebodywho, on stage, has the
personality like Blakey, andBlakey says it doesn't matter if

(51:59):
I'm dying or a man chopped mejust now.
When you say I come on stage,people have to laugh at me
because I come to make themlaugh.
I come to make them feel good, Icome to make them.
You know, and you feel it.
When you step on stage, whenBlakey gets on stage, you know
when, when you show how theyhold the pussy, it's something

(52:20):
else to see.

Corie (52:21):
you know and you laugh so some of that is what you're
doing.
When you go, you try to makethe song how it's here.
How it's here because whole CXwas one, madman Rant was another
one.
You trying to make this song awitty.
A witty because Hul CX was one,madman Rant was another one,
panama for sure.
Serious, serious story.
The names you're calling thesong and so on.

(52:41):
One of the only songs I everhear.
Man, you outright write a songand tell me hey, I'm going to
finish this movie and hang it inthe next book.
Hold on that littleself-reflection.
I see it in many, many songs.
I have plenty of songs whereit's a part where you're just
talking to yourself yeah, thatdeliberate too.
And I'll ask you again Panama,that ride fast too, that fast.

(53:01):
Well, you ride slow.
Yeah, if anything slow, we cando it again.
It's a non-nice thing.

Rudder (53:05):
The thing about it is, if the song struggles it'll be
alright song.
I see you know.
But if you kind of know, andsometimes, when you're writing
it, writing it down, you say, ohright, I didn't even think
about this and.
I put something in there thatyou know made the magic right,

(53:29):
right.

Corie (53:29):
You know I hear a lot of writers say that too.
They say it's just come out.
The classics, the classics willjust come out.
The classics, the classics willjust come out.
So let me go to the selfishpart now and ask you about my
song now, engine Room.
Complicated set of writing.
Every verse have a differenttheme in it, as descriptive as
it gets, yeah, fast yeah yeahyeah alright, well, let me go

(53:50):
through it now.
I want to do a whole walkthrough this song.
Right, your first verse.
It was called Head.
It's On Us Rolling, yeah, yeah.

Rudder (53:56):
On the floor, get up and grumble.
The whole crowd in the uproar.
All of a sudden, everythingjust up and chilled, everything
just going to a standstill.
The crowd started to cursewhat's wrong with the band?
It was the man with the irongun and fallen.
The rack with iron going andfalling, the vibration busts
with the welding and when theiron falls it's a humble demand
and everything's at a crawl andeverything's at a fall.

(54:18):
And the truth was plain to see.
The engine room is the heart ofit.

Corie (54:21):
Yeah, the truth was plain to see.
Yeah, yeah, when you, if therhythm section go down, the pan
is not what it was before.
You know what I mean, evenreason.
So that verse, just come to you, that's quick.
You get in there, you sayyou're out of the angle and fall
because the vibration bustswith you.
Well, they're complicated line.
When you try to sing over thatsong, you bite up your tongue.

(54:41):
You know the second verse, aspecial verse to me as well,
because, uh, I had duvon stuarthere, right, uh, renegades a
ranger I heard christinekangaloo talk about, to the head
of, uh, pantron bagel talkingabout it as well, where the pan
and the panyard going to be thesavior and the panyard as
community center model, right,and I feel like your second

(55:01):
verse in Engine Room capturedthat, because pan was a thing
where even Blakey, as you'resaying, invaders beating sweet,
coming up Park Street, tokyocoming down, beating very slow
Talk about that Like the mosttension how should I say it?

Rudder (55:22):
The most intense and ominous person in history of
music.

Corie (55:28):
Yeah.

Rudder (55:29):
Simply in business, beating sweet that whole Western
Paul of Spain.
Naivety kind of thing Comingfrom western part of Spain,
naivete kind of thing comingfrom east part of Spain.
There's one from east part ofSpain, invaders, beating sweet.
Coming up, park Street.
Tokyo coming down, beating verysmooth.
If you want to handle violence,it creates plenty of tension.

(55:53):
There's.
It creates plenty of tension.

Corie (55:54):
There's no song I hear like a, like a captain, you know
and it's only two band clashyeah, which I guess would be a
common thing.
Then yeah, steel band clash isa real, real song.
Yeah.

Rudder (56:09):
I've been trying to kind of like Gypsy and them to say
about Bigwin kind corner being asite, a historical site, you
know, but that's where thecarnival started, you know, and
that clash the steel one clash.
From then on they had to go thepolice headquarters right in
the green corner there.

(56:30):
It's not by chance, because thepolice were right in the corner
, because so they were sayingalright if anything jump over,
you can come here and turn backaround here and go back up the
road.
Wow, you know.
Oh, I see you know.
So I was Pedro should be thegreen corner yeah you know that

(56:51):
should be, that should be like atourism brochure.
You know, a small theater orsomething and people can come to
China and go.

Corie (57:00):
Yeah, see Green Corner.

Rudder (57:02):
See Green Corner.
You know, stick fightingCalypso competition, everything
was there.
Yeah, now the people don't knowabout Savannah.

Corie (57:10):
But Green Corner was the.
It was the epicenter.
Yeah, I see, I see, I see, yeah, like it's like when the US
Does this thing with I forgetwhat they call the body of parks
and this and that, and makethem Historical sites, yeah, we
should do that.
I mean Green CornerImmortalizing plenty music.
I understand why no GreenCorner should be.

Rudder (57:27):
Actually, to me, just like Similar to the Hollywood
Walk of Fame All fame, all theartists fight Everybody.
Get a star, get a pan orsomething.
We don't go star.
I think we should like mosthistorical areas.
The signposts are brown, brownand white.

Corie (57:48):
This is a historical area of Spain.
Immortalize everybody there.
I like the idea we can fightthe fight.
I like the idea we go fight thefight.
I like the idea make itsomething people want to come
and see.
Yeah.

Rudder (57:58):
I wrote something about it between Green Corner it's
good Chinese Lottery, greenCorner with them, but that's
what that was.
The the message was people come, people circle, circle the
corner bow and head back down inthe west.
You know, make that pass everycannibal circle the corner bow
and head back down in the west,make that pass Every cannibal

(58:20):
and turn the corner and headback up the road in the next
direction.

Corie (58:25):
Yeah, let me hope it comes to pass.
It's a beautiful idea, let mehope it comes to pass.
But, as Blakey, when I capturedit with the attention you did
that in that verse you say checkyour grandmother.
Yeah, talk to the neighbor nextdoor If the thing didn't change
up.

Rudder (58:41):
Oh no, it would still be in big war.
It's the same woman who put outtheir mother because she was in
love with this pan-pan.
She used to open the door topray on my head.
Now she boasts to the neighbornext oh my God, what a beast for
a steel box If it wasn't foryou.

Corie (58:54):
Gil, that would be so dreadful.

Rudder (58:56):
When I see I'm in pain, I just start to think again and
take it out of the steam.

Corie (59:03):
Again, the writing itself is not the longest verse ever,
but it tells you a whole storyabout the transition from Pan,
where you used to be clash andbadness, to Pan, where people
brought no, it's All thesemummies and jannies united by
silver stars and all these bands.
Waiting to pick up turn.

Rudder (59:21):
Pick up turn, so it comes wrong, you know.

Corie (59:26):
But it's beautiful and I mean think of the year you write
that song and where we are now.
It's almost prophetic in someways that you're seeing what the
pan had and the presidenttalking about.
You talk now.
It's almost prophetic in someways that you're seeing what the
panyard and the presidenttalking about.
You're talking about billingpolice headquarters to protect
pan mind from one another.
And now to the president of thecountry talking about how
important the panyard is.
Your third verse, again talkingto yourself, and a kind of
reflection you're doing inside.

(59:47):
Again I know which verse is myfavorite.
Every day I get up with put outdifferent favorite verse.
But you see tongue in theengine.
Iron in my head.
You see the scratcher manscratching.

Rudder (59:59):
I have the drum.
It seems to be well dread theCongo man.

Corie (01:00:02):
I close, I close.

Rudder (01:00:03):
I close.
I close.
I feel sorry for the drum skinsorry for the drum skin me and
all them back up.

Corie (01:00:07):
Iron up my ears so that's what I want to ask you about,
line there.
You see, don't get your engineironed in my head.
But now you're telling me youhad your own iron in your head,
you had your iron up by yourears.

Rudder (01:00:16):
Yeah, I put myself inside of the scene.

Corie (01:00:19):
I love it, I love it, I love it.
So don't get easy, easy, easyyour iron up by your ears.
Two, three call bell man.
A bell in the hand and a tasselman pumping.

Rudder (01:00:35):
One more you you going to want?
Yeah, the thing about this.
I got a call from somebody inAustralia and they say my father
wanted to just say thanks forcalling his name.
That was Liba.
Oh.
I see that's his last verse heended up in in Australia, so
they say he just passed away oh,I see, you're just in peace.

Corie (01:00:54):
Right, iron man, right yeah.

Rudder (01:00:57):
He was a.
He was born on, oh, withTripoli.
Tripoli, I see he was a.
Oh, fantastic, nice to know youboys.

Corie (01:01:06):
Nice to know you, bro.
So it's another thing whereTripoli went to play with
Liberace.

Rudder (01:01:12):
Liberace had him under contract for years.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah, I see, so he.
But he moved.
After the band, this band, hemoved to Australia.
Okay, but the thing I rememberabout the engineering more than
anything else is the shortraster from New Tones.
Yeah, during the carnivalseason, the short raster put a,

(01:01:34):
a, a, a, a publication in thenewspapers to inform his fans.
I love it.
I no longer play for this is.
This is short raster, I nolonger playing for, so and so
band again I will not be.
I will not be associated withthis band.

Corie (01:01:56):
See, this is before the song or this is after After the
song.
So he makes sure he's notassociated with it If he doesn't
have any papers.

Rudder (01:02:04):
He's no longer with New Tones.

Corie (01:02:07):
Yeah, I like that Because he got immortalized.
So he started getting to be theraster from Newtons, regardless
the short raster from Newtons.
I love it.
And he went through many, manynames and things.
I have a list of names here,right, I wanted to hear just
your thoughts on the person,your relationship, your thoughts
, any stories you might have.
The first name I have here isPelham Goddard.

(01:02:29):
What's on Pelham, yourrelationship?

Rudder (01:02:33):
Well, when I was invited to join Chinese Tally's Youth,
the band was this a band thatplayed soccer music.
The band was formed to playthis new music, soccer right,
and it was Rodston Charles.

(01:02:55):
The record man from New Yorksaid this band should be out on
the road.
Man, I will buy them equipment.
So he buys speakers and mixersand all that kind of thing and
they come out on the road.
The band comes on the road.
The name of the band wasSensational Roots.

Corie (01:03:07):
Great.

Rudder (01:03:08):
And then in appreciation for Charlie sponsoring the band
.
I see, they, they, they, they.
You call it the band Charlie'sYouth.

Corie (01:03:18):
Mm.

Rudder (01:03:19):
Right.
So Pelham was seasoned when youwhen the formation of what
people call Soka Music.
Today, mm Pelham and Vernon andall these guys, you know these
Toby, junior Warwood, you knowTony, all these guys when they

(01:03:42):
started the soccer.
You know this new song, youknow.
So Palermo had a greater hornon the arrangement, you know.
So when I went to the ballroomI said why don't we write some
songs?

Corie (01:03:58):
So then these are plain songs.
You just cover.
We cover the ballon, we coversongs.

Rudder (01:04:02):
So and so said, so done.
We started with Kalaloo,kalaloo, all of it is Kalaloo.

Corie (01:04:15):
And Pelham would have done a lot of your arrangements
in the being Pelham in that timeof years.

Rudder (01:04:19):
It's true, we worked together.
Okay At that point in time.

Corie (01:04:25):
Yeah, it had to be a special connection because your
writing, and like your writing,is colored by the way they
phrase the music and everythingthat happens with the song.
You know it makes some of themsound so perfect, like Calypso
and them, Even some of thephrases you do, like Panama, you
say I, I.
So you and Pelham just workingthrough them things in terms of
how you want the final product.

Rudder (01:04:45):
Yeah, I basically I don't read music.
I want to have this, this, this, this, this here.

Corie (01:04:53):
Mm-hmm, you know Right, and so we work it out until we
get a nice medium.
Gotcha, gotcha.
So let me stick with Charlie'sroots.
Christopher Tambu Herbert.
What was it like?
You joined him in the band atthe time, or?

Rudder (01:05:08):
No, Actually he was the lead singer of the band Mm-hmm
and they'd gone to Guyana to dosome shows and when they came
back he lost his voice.

Corie (01:05:17):
I see.

Rudder (01:05:18):
And they asked me if I would mind filling in his space.

Corie (01:05:23):
Right.

Rudder (01:05:24):
But the funny thing about it was that Carl and Carol
used to sing with Charlie'sRoots at that time, because not
everybody who passed through themusic now in those times passed
through Charlie's Roots.

Corie (01:05:34):
Oh, so Carl and Carol were there yeah, I see.

Rudder (01:05:36):
Robin Eman, michelle, roger George, lots of, lots of
them youngsters, mmhmm.

Corie (01:05:44):
Fatman Nappy, charlie's Roots yeah, everybody passed
through Charlie's Roots.
You had Fatman Nappy a long,long time.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, so y'all had a goodrelationship.
I know Tambu would have shiftedand so on, but from 85 to all
the way to 90, between you andhim all he dominated.
That year Tambu would have wentout a few road match back to
back.
I'm thinking that time.
But you all had a goodrelationship.

(01:06:05):
You all feel as good.
Yeah, okay, nice.
I didn't see or hear from himin a long time actually the
United.

Rudder (01:06:12):
we did a tribute with Lord Charles, the Desperado
Spaniard.
Oh nice, he was there too.

Corie (01:06:18):
Oh, good, good, good, good, good.
He's somebody I would love tohave on to as somebody who was
in that space in the 80s.
There are a lot of people whowere born late 70s, early 80s.
They really grew up and startedto like music, with Charlie's
Roots music in a major way.
Peter Minchell, what was thatrelationship like with you and
Peter Minchell?
Because there was an era whereMinchell's band was what Mass

(01:06:41):
was, and your music, all yourmusic.
But some particular songs wentalong with some productions that
he would have done.

Rudder (01:06:49):
Yeah, that happened in the same way with Tungu Fever.
That was the first year Ijoined the band and, um, people
used to say, when the history,the history of Cannavale was,
you had a a little a band on theroad Cannavale and you have a
singer, lead singer, some of thesingers, what they do in Brazil

(01:07:10):
, you know.
But, um, so they were, theywere, they were called.
They were called chantwells.
They would kind of lead theband.
You know when a dead berrymakes, oh my mother, when a dead
berry makes, you know.
So the chantwell now is makingmusic for the particular band,
right, so we started to do songslike Calabash and Jungle Fever,

(01:07:36):
those songs based on what PeterMitchell was playing.
You know everything and look athis costume and say, alright,
so this is how it started youknow, so it was Kalabash, it's
River yeah, it's a few years, itwas a stretch.

Corie (01:07:55):
So you all used to work together, like he telling his
concepts for the band and youtelling him, you coming up with
the song.
You know what, what you?

Rudder (01:08:02):
no, I kind of.
I kind of, sometimes I justlook at the costumes.
Sometimes I hear what you say,but but, um, it's mostly, we
just decided to do some music.
I see, really, and it fit ofcourse it fit.

Corie (01:08:16):
Yeah, it looked like you've only come up with it
together.
When you look back in history,people think that you all work
on it at the same time.
Interesting another name I havehere Andy Norell.
I saw Andy Norell on the showthat you said was going to be
your last long marathon show inSong Forge.
I see Andy Norell is stillthere with you.
Come out and play some pan.

Rudder (01:08:33):
Yeah, yeah, we're actually working on a Stalin
album right now.

Corie (01:08:39):
Oh, a Stalin album.
That's right, musical, or whatAre you doing?
Covers oh covers.

Rudder (01:08:43):
Oh, really, yeah, that's nice.
The Drudge arrangement.
Oh, beautiful, beautiful,beautiful.
We did a about two weeks afterCarnival.
The same song for us, rightthat?

Corie (01:08:57):
was the kickstart of the whole project.
Oh nice, Good, good, good.
So where you all met and thingsyou just met along the way and
become friends.

Rudder (01:09:02):
That was Carnival the same year with the Hammer.

Corie (01:09:04):
Okay.

Rudder (01:09:05):
That was the ground thing.

Corie (01:09:06):
Mm-hmm.

Rudder (01:09:07):
Because he had come down to train that Mm-hmm, his
brother, always come right rightand he.
He asked me if he'd like to dothe hammer on his next album.
So I said, well, fine, I'll gowith it, you know.
So he asked me whether I wantedto sing it too right?

(01:09:27):
So I said, no problem, andthat's that's.

Corie (01:09:31):
That's from there we stay connected over the years.
My next name is Carl Jacobs.
I see you all.
Well, I did not realize thatCarl and Carol were on Charlie's
.
I thought they were chandelieror something After After I see
so all those band rivals.
Now, all these good, goodfriends.
I see all these partners.
How did that connection startwith you and Carl?

Rudder (01:09:51):
We used to go to this thing called Pop Gear.
It used to have a discargetedhotel in Quebec Right.
Right near Exeter, spania, there, oh, eight, nine story building
, I think Jack Warner owned it,okay, okay, oh yeah, I know it
Right.
They had the garage, theparking lot, they blocked it off

(01:10:13):
, mm-hmm.
And then we had this pop gear.
So all the bands were singingthe best pop songs, I think.
So we used to be rivals, sohe's a part of what's meaning,
you know, even teenage boys usedto sing in the songs.
So one day we ended up the sameplan ends in Belmont, and I

(01:10:38):
used to kind of it'd be my ownlittle world, you know.
And he says but I want stilllike in it.
It's like it's a course.
And then one day he just drivethe car and say jump in the car
because we work in the sameplace right, so you had to do
and that time we're Right, soyou had to do it, and that time
only into separate band, right,but still.

Corie (01:11:00):
So your friendship was forged as early as then.
This is way back in the day,way back in the day.
Nice, and, as you say, youstick together, little business
concept and all that.
So I find Kaiso Blues became aplace where you could get a
culture coming together.
I'd gone down there and seerecently, well, several
different shows.
We do shows there.
I see Ben Jai do his show there, like several artists Today's

(01:11:23):
Euro, if you want to put it likethat.
They do a lot of work down inKaiso Blues.
I'd like to say aboutperformances, because you had
this appetite for marathonperformances.
That was since back then, sincein Roots days, I think.
When did three and four showsstart?

Rudder (01:11:39):
About.

Corie (01:11:41):
Or five.

Rudder (01:11:43):
About 20 years ago.
Yeah, what happened is moresongs they sing you need time.
So you need more time to add toeverybody.
I didn't hear they didn't playthis one, they didn't play that,
they didn't play this.
So you need more time to add toeverybody.
But I didn't play this one, Ididn't play that, I didn't play
this.
So I said well, you have toplay everything.
Still more time to add toeverybody.

Corie (01:12:06):
Yeah, I would imagine you can't do everything.

Rudder (01:12:08):
Yeah, if somebody has a song, that's a big hit one year
and that's what boosted them tocome on stage as a special guest
10 years later.
They expected to sing that song.
Yeah, yeah but when you havelike Panama types of music right
along with the engine room,high mass.

Corie (01:12:30):
And everybody coming to hear them favorite songs, yeah.
So Normandy was weird, becauseI remember there's an album on
Apple Music and thing now withthe no Restrictions show from
the Complex.
Yeah, it was a marathon showtoo.
That was two plus hours.
They never stopped on stage thewhole time, but Normandy was
where the longer shows started.

Rudder (01:12:48):
No, my shows were Queen's Park Savannah.
I'm sure it was Queen's ParkSavannah.

Corie (01:12:53):
Oh, it's Savannah, and then you rally through.
So I heard, I think you shockedthe whole nation and I think
you appreciated what it wouldhave sounded like to all of us
when we see you in Kaiso BluesSelvan.
Even on the news, nobody'sstudying nothing there.
Even on the news they wouldhave come to make an
announcement that well, firstunfortunately diagnosed with
Parkinson's, and then one of thethings you said was that you're

(01:13:14):
not going to do the.
You know you only have a few ofthose very, very long shows in
the early days.
In terms of your creativeprocess, I always like to ask
people like yourselves what isyour favorite part?
Is it the writing?
Is it the performing?
For you, is it performing?

Rudder (01:13:28):
Yeah, when, when you write, you kind of look to see
how people reacted, you knowthey know the song.
How does you know how does onereact to this particular song?
Right, and sometimes you kindof expect a certain reaction,
but a lot of times you getsurprised okay, you're surprised

(01:13:55):
how some people hold on to someof the ones.

Corie (01:13:56):
you might not expect, I guess, yeah.
So what was that like for you,having to announce that now
you're going to slow down withthe performing part of it?

Rudder (01:14:05):
Well, I have to tell people, you know it's, it's kind
of it does bother me.
Sometimes I mean I just want togo back and sleep, it's like,
but I can't, you know, becauseof the nature of the thing.

Corie (01:14:22):
So sometimes it's like I don't know yeah, ticket stole,
yeah, but you seem to be to berallying through it.
A few things.
As I say, you pop up a fewplaces for carnival.
You're still getting to perform, uh, and you did say you ain't
doing too long.
So so we, my mom and I, came tothe show in song forge and I'll
tell you that we don't knowwhat to expect.
I think the whole audience wasthere just wanting to show your

(01:14:44):
appreciation and show love, butnot really sure what to expect
when you see something like that.
But the show went on, for letme tell you how long it went on.
Right, my mother couldn't stayno longer.
She said, boy, you had to carryme home and we live in
Wrightson James there.
So I had to drop her home.
My wife and I, we went to dropher home and we take you to the
rest of the show On theforeshore.

(01:15:04):
We park up on the foreshore.

Rudder (01:15:05):
Yeah.

Corie (01:15:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So after performances now youstill feel good.
You're not feeling like overlydrained or Okay.
So it's something that you'regoing to continue to do, yeah.

Rudder (01:15:14):
I think I think for much here they deliver.

Corie (01:15:18):
Yeah, and I think the audience, um, the audience loves
to see the people who wouldhave been there from the
beginning, as well as peoplethey say I, I don't know.
Who is this generation you'retalking about.
Who's saying that?
They might know David Rudder,but I think when I look at that
crowding song Forge, I wasseeing all ages, like that's
something you notice at yourshows usually, where it's people
of all ages and you're seeingsome older people but a lot of

(01:15:41):
young people at our show too.
Yeah, gotcha.
One more question about thatsong before we close off.
Rally Wrongly West Indies was asong that at one point I
suppose, as you say a fan ofCalypso cricket you had stopped
performing.
It was because of theperformance of the West Indies
at the time, or what made younot want to perform the song?

Rudder (01:16:00):
I was just disappointed in the fact that there was a
lack of effort.

Corie (01:16:05):
Uh-huh, you know.

Rudder (01:16:06):
I find that I think most people following West Indies
cricket they're mainly losing.
If it's losing with a, but wecome up for it again.
We'll get there next time, youknow you know, you're getting
that.

Corie (01:16:22):
It's prayers it's this and that and the other nothing.

Rudder (01:16:26):
Same mistakes again you can actually see sometimes who
this one he can get more.
You can predict it.
Same mistakes again.
You could actually seesometimes who this one he can
build some.

Corie (01:16:31):
You could predict it, right, yeah, so that you felt
like as a fan, they're notreciprocating, they're not
giving you back that kind ofeffort you're putting in as a
fan.
So where did it come aboutwhere Rally Rungly Western well,
I guess it's a mix betweenRally Rung, the West Indies and
high mass A little bit that theyuse as the West Indies anthem.
They didn't have anthem Foryears.
They used to play Some kind ofpiece when we had anthem.

Rudder (01:16:53):
What happened Before they used to play.
If Larry is the captain.
They play the train and thenational anthem.
Oh, I see, if one is thecaptain they play the Jamaican
anthem, got it.
So they say this can't sustain.

Corie (01:17:06):
So they come and ask me for oh, they came and talked to
you, so you all worked it upthey did that survey what was
your favourite anthem for thewrestling team?

Rudder (01:17:14):
and nearly everybody said you're going to ask that
question, you know.
So Tony Hartford came as a souland he said we wanted you to
redo this anthem and I said noproblem original lyric was no
noble thoughts brought us hereto this island.
I said hello, we're in a line.

Corie (01:17:34):
I suppose.
I suppose they're quick tolearn all that, so I said I'm
going to change it.

Rudder (01:17:39):
But I said to this region Right.

Corie (01:17:42):
So you made the adjustments, so the final
product was really your puttingtogether.

Rudder (01:17:46):
Yes, but is that?

Corie (01:17:47):
a piece of high mass in the days we're here.

Rudder (01:17:49):
Let me voice be raised and when I did it, I'm the last
world cup we had here.

Corie (01:17:55):
Yeah, how was that?

Rudder (01:17:57):
Everywhere I go, people say that song, that song, and
people tell me that it's fromthe other teams.
You know, South African team.
That is an anthem Dream on youbrother.
That is an anthem.
Yeah, million brother.

Corie (01:18:11):
That is an anthem, yeah, wow.

Rudder (01:18:13):
Thanks for that Guy from New Zealand, thanks for that so
the song itself has its ownyeah, its own life yeah it's
neither one of the other.
They listen to what the lyricssay and it's, like you know,
interesting.

Corie (01:18:28):
Yeah, I suppose, yeah, they connect with it.
So it looked like, you know,mm-hmm Interesting.
Yeah, I suppose, yeah, theyconnect with it.
So it looked like something.
He was emotional at the timedelivering his song.
As a fan, you felt.

Rudder (01:18:37):
Yeah.

Corie (01:18:38):
Yeah, After so many years of not doing it.
Yeah, especially that it was inBrian Lara's stadium.

Rudder (01:18:43):
I think a lot of people were moved At the end of that in
Guyana, the board wanted me tocome to Trinidad.
Then we went to Antigua.

Corie (01:18:54):
So you found that the region accepted it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, good.

Rudder (01:18:58):
It was actually getting a different emotional level
every game.
The reaction to it was likepeople screaming yeah, they come
in to hear that, they come into hear that.
So I said, if this team can'twin with this, you're in more
trouble than we thought.

Corie (01:19:09):
Hear that you know they're coming to hear that.
So if this team can't win withthis I mean more trouble than we
thought Well, they're winningsome T20 and things right, I
mean a lot of changes havehappened.
So, from a regional standpoint,you've won several awards,
regional awards, Humminbird,Silver I believe you were UN
Goodwill Ambassador at one pointin time.

(01:19:30):
These awards and accolades,they mean a lot to you when you
receive them.

Rudder (01:19:33):
They mean a lot.
When I talk to young peopleabout the dreams and aspirations
, I always tell them 86 was myfirst, my big year.
That was my 21st year in thebusiness, you know, and here.

Corie (01:19:49):
This is where I end up working in the UN.

Rudder (01:19:52):
I'm teaching about projects and you know, and I'm
talking to you guys in schoolhere I'm in the university
Dartmouth College, columbiaUniversity, united States you
know URI and so I'm alwaystrying to say to them you know,
this life is very short to them,you know this life is very
short.
So when you reach this age,it's kind of it's how fast the
years pass.

(01:20:12):
It's something else.
You know, young and strong, nowjust go out and do it.
Yeah, do it, do good work, doyour good work.

Corie (01:20:20):
In terms of following your dreams.
Following your dreams, yeah andyour connection with young
people.
I noticed how much of theartists would have showed up for
you at the time.
Marshall was there, voice, Iremember Mikael Tejo.

Rudder (01:20:31):
one at Bigfoot was there , several several artists and we
had to actually turn back andlook at people.
It was just yeah it would havebeen 10 hours.
Not so much me, but the band.

Corie (01:20:43):
Oh yeah, it's not you going to be tired of the band.
The band had to run a marathonthere.
When I see that and I see howthey show up for you and how you
show up for them, even in thesurprise where we started, with
the surprise with Mohammed andthey, it feels so good to know
that when you were in 86, as yousay, at your pinnacle, when you
started achieving your dreams,you say 21 years in how people

(01:21:06):
will be saying you're singingthis and you're singing that and
you know they call it fightdown now, right, but you don't
seem to have that in you at all.
You embrace youth and bringthem into into the fray a lot.
Yeah, it's a great thing to seewhen you're connected uh, that
connection with, with destra inparticular.
It seemed to have a strongconnection there and she do
songs like lamentable and so onon accolades and the and the
region.
I always say and I know you'remad up to date with current

(01:21:28):
affairs.
You're still reading andeverything.
You're still up to date.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you hear Mia Motley the wayshe talks about you now, because
she does that at the UN andregional conferences and so on.
Mia Motley, never she doesn'twaste the opportunity to sing
the praises of David Rudder.
How does that feel to you?

Rudder (01:21:42):
I feel very honored.

Corie (01:21:51):
It means that whatever I'm doing, it's reaching people
at all different levels andthat's all it can hope for.
Well, I appreciate it.
Listen, I want to.
I want to tell people how thiscame about.
Right, so we it was.
It was, uh.
I've been on a sort of journeyto document the some of these
stories of people likeyourselves.
You could never do it an hourand a half, but I appreciate
people uh, telling the storiesand just making some of the
connections that you made today.
But I want to tell people thatI made one phone call.
He said, yes, I'll come in anddo it, and then, maybe a week

(01:22:12):
after, we're here doing it, andit's something I appreciate, and
the more stories I hear aboutyou, it sounds as though you're
always one phone call away foranybody who's interested in your
work.

Rudder (01:22:24):
Yeah, I also have a group of people who feel I'm
very standoffish.
I hear so, though the thingabout it is I'm in a crowd and
I'm really in vatican, so itdoesn't have to do with the
people who are around you.

Corie (01:22:42):
You're in your own zone.

Rudder (01:22:43):
I can't see them, I can't see.
But my wife, she works withchildren with autism and things
like that.
Right, she said when she was amonth into the job.
She said that's you, Mm-hmm.

Corie (01:23:00):
She said it might be that , yeah, that's why you zone out
completely on people here.
So he heard from himself.
Right, he's saying, notunapproachably, just in your own
zone.
I like that, I like that, Ilike that.
So it's something I want totell you thanks for, not just
for coming out today, but foreverything that you have done
for us as a society, for us as aregion, Overcoming.

(01:23:21):
I heard your story in anotherinterview talking about your
neighbor who used to join youand you crawl and you pick up
some nails and you found outabout polio at the time.
So you battle through somethings that there are a lot of
people who might face some ofthe things you face and give up,
but you even now started to.

Rudder (01:23:39):
I don't know.
Sometimes with me, I just saythis is supposed to be a
handicap.
No, I will make make it intosomething else.
That's how I approach life.

Corie (01:23:49):
I think a lot of people take in inspiration from that
and I appreciate you continuingto do it and I hope that all the
things you talk about in termsof your future like when I have
younger artists here, I alwayslike to ask them, because you
hear the joy come out in themwhen you ask them where's the
future for this person?
You know, like you say, you donof years ahead, so I want to
ask you the same thing when doyou see the future for you in

(01:24:09):
terms of what you're doing next?

Rudder (01:24:11):
Well, that's why I'm working on the book now, a lyric
book, autobiography.
There are two differentuniversities going to do.
They chose some songs thatthey're going to put an
intellectual bent on these, youknow.
So it should be a lot ofdifferent stuff out there in the
next 12 months, 12 years.

Corie (01:24:33):
I appreciate that and I'm looking forward to hearing what
you and Narelle come up with.
Every time you all do something, it is, it is genius level.
So I appreciate you.
We're looking forward to that,as as the announcements come and
we know we go find you by KaizoBlues, sometimes surprising
somebody, and we go approaching.
This time we know you're inBlanchishes but we will come up
Because I'm sure people alwayswant to come up to you just to

(01:24:54):
say thanks or just to say howmuch they love you or to debate
what's their favorite song.
So he in Blanchishes, rememberthat right, but he present and
he open to talking.
So I appreciate you coming.
No problem, all right.
Thanks very much.

Rudder (01:25:09):
It was one of the best interviews I've done.

Corie (01:25:11):
I appreciate that.
I appreciate that that means alot coming from you.
Thanks very much.
You know one thing I wanted toask you about.
There's a particular song yousing about tracking women, right
.
Enough respect, right, and theway you put together that
mastery behind it.
I had two questions.
I didn't want to.
I want to ask, but I don't wantto answer, if you ever get

(01:25:33):
through with the sweet and thesweetness on what is 10,000
bullets of wet love but don'tanswer them.
Questions, right?
We don't end on a good notealready.
So I appreciate you comingthrough very much.
I appreciate that.
Thanks Enough.
Respect is one of my favouritetoo.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rudder (01:25:48):
Easily one of my favourite songs the funny thing
about that one is that a doctorcame, a gynecologist come and
said you realise you're impotent.
I said it's not millennial,it's 10 billion.
He said oh, sorry, sorry, oh,you say you're good.
He came to me and advised me.

(01:26:09):
He said you're good.
You can't make me advice you toyou.
Stick out your body, just tellme something you know.
I think you're important,you're potent.

Corie (01:26:16):
Yeah, hello, puppy, you write that in a short space of
time too.

Rudder (01:26:22):
Yeah.

Corie (01:26:23):
You never take no set of timeto write songs.
I've seen that trend here.
A little birdie, tell me thatyou have a lot, of, a lot of
hidden gems in your writing anda lot of your songs.
There's a Mary Ashby.
He was telling me that you have, he said, the Belmont song.

Rudder (01:26:40):
That's true.
You know that should be like a.
It is a classic because anywayI go with Belmont people.

Corie (01:26:50):
I see the reactions when you do it in Songforge, belmont
crawl.
People want to.
It's one of them.
Songs that's classics.
I mean you have so muchclassics it's really, it's
really, really a lot.
But you tell my partner thatwas an ode to Nigel Ross,
grandfather.
Hands up, hands up, you're insky.
Hands up, hands up here, theorange guy.
One day we go to the Saifalemusic, the universities will do

(01:27:12):
it.
You ever, you ever.
I saw Kendrick Lamar, a rapperin the States on the West Coast,
have a Pulitzer Prize forliterature.
You ever apply for it?

Rudder (01:27:21):
Apply for it.

Corie (01:27:22):
Yeah, they say there's an application process and you do
a Pulitzer Prize for literature,it no?
Alright.
Well, let me do that.
We'll reach out to all thepeople who are in the literary
society and see how we can getat that, because some of your
writing is purely surprisedeserving for me.
Thank you.

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Episode 228 | David Rudder

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 228 | David Rudder