Episode 236 | Lou Lyons - Corie Sheppard Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, we
will find out today.
We will find out today.
So, how you're going, bro?
I good you're, it's good tohave you here, bro.
I want to tell you this hasbeen long in the making.
When I first started talking topeople, you was one of the
first people I said I had totalk to that man boy.
Why, bud, full disclosure radioboy?
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Yeah, I used to do the podcastbefore just talking about what

(00:38):
happened in the.
Wherever the current affairswas, I kind of started to talk
about that, but my goal wasalways to tie it back to Calypso
.
Calypso is my love.
That's where I feel mostcomfortable and I find that a
lot of the issues that we seenow, we see these things many,
many times before in the past.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, it cycles.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
It cycles, but the thing is it's our brand new
people born every day and it'seasy for us to take for granted.
Them know what we know andtheir experience is ours.
So I was glad when I seesomebody else in this space
talking about the, the currentaffairs and that kind of thing.
What was the genesis of it foryou?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
um and this is um full disclosure around the
pandemic right right.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, you were talking more of the, the issues
around the pandemic, thepolitical side.
It seemed as though there wasno topic that he wasn't willing
to talk about.
Yeah, um.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
So full disclosure.
As the name alludes to, it wasmy attempt to show a community
that I was growing in real time.
It was never to come off as aleader in thought or guru of any
sort.
The pandemic allowed me to slowdown, and in slowing down

(01:49):
because remember, feel the Lovehad just take Freetown
Collective to a new place in theculture we had about 17
bookings outside of the countryalready lined up From Feel the
Love, from Feel the Love, andfor the pandemic to hit and for
the entire company to pivot andsay, well, how are we going to

(02:11):
survive this?
I had a lot more time to sit andthink and slow down and a lot
of personal things in my lifeneeded addressing.
And as I began to address themin my own self, other things
started coming out.
About the creative community.

(02:31):
Right, a lot of whistleblowingstarted happening and I picked
up a book called woman who runwith the wolves.
Well, it was suggested to me bya friend, right, she even bought
the book for me and in readingthat book I realized just how
much I was ignoring about my ownexistence.

(02:52):
I said, okay, I'm feeling likeI stumbled on a gold mine in my
own self and I would like to tryto have a community around
self-discovery.
So, on full disclosure, thatname suggested that no topic was
off the table for addressingand I would attempt to be my

(03:14):
most brutally honest so thatwhoever looks at this could hold
me to those words.
I needed the accountability.
I got you, so I wanted peopleto hear me say those things.
Yeah, see me make thosediscoveries and force me to be a
better person by holding me tothose things.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, you put it on record I appreciate that it was
a conversation.
I think, if I remember right, Iused to see it on a sunday like
yeah, yeah, it used to be in asunday nice little community,
you know, because it was.
I like the idea that you weredoing it live as opposed to I
recording and putting it outevery tuesday.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
But I might record friday, yeah, but the live gives
you a different opportunity youcan't hide no, no, no, no, you
can't hide it the commentscoming at you fast and furious.
Yeah, and you?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
seem to enjoy it too.
You like the banter with the,with the audience, because I'm a
perpetual.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I don't ever see any kind of engagement or discourse
as a challenge.
I am here to learn From themost learned to the most naive.
I'm here to learn.
There isn't any area, any topicthat I think that I'm an expert
on.
That precludes me from learningfrom somebody.

(04:26):
So if you want to see me at mymost excited, yeah, teach me
something.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
It seems to be real excited when you're doing the
teaching.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
So you know, teaching is a learning in itself yeah,
and I'm excited because it's atwo-way street, because by
attempting to impart information, I am also, in the moment,
realizing that I didn't realizesome things, so there's some
contemporaneous learning for mewhen I teach.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Gotcha, gotcha.
So that would have beenadvanced to today in our series.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I'm enjoying a lot for the record.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes indeed.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
I can see it.
I was telling you before you,before we start this great work
that you're doing, because I,almost since you started, every
time I prep in to interviewsomebody, something you said on
that episode.
Make me add a question, changea question.
It's been real, real useful.
Thanks.
I can remember you're readingsomething about how kenny
phillips here last week and youread something and you say Kenny
Phillips, and I was like I saymy first thought was Lou, make a

(05:28):
mistake here, because the ageof the song you're talking about
and my age for Kenny Phillips Isay something here, right?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
And I said the Kenny Phillips Just so that everybody
was clear.
Yeah that, kenny Phillips, youonly looking young.
I know, kenny, you only lookingyoung.
The cat is out the bag now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, people stopdying here.
No, you're clean shape man,you're born.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
oh sorry, scratch jack that was you keeping him
looking young too.
You know every great tricks,yeah, but that part about just
connecting the music and it'ssomething you used to do a lot
in full disclosure radio.
Maybe that's why I latch on toit, because you would be talking
about that topic like whathappened in the pandemic and
youths, something you used to doa lot in full disclosure radio.
Maybe that's why I latch on toit, because you would be talking
about a topic like whathappened in the pandemic and
youths and so on.
And then you just randomly talkabout a melody calypso and I
think.
But this man okay so yeah, yeah,so you're diving to it fully

(06:14):
now.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah um, uh, I was just talking to david where's
photographer and he wasresponsible for, like
freeetongue's first professionalum photo session for an article
done by laura douridge and inthat photo, uh, muhammad and I
are sitting on crates of recordsand he was holding up a shadow

(06:38):
record and I can't rememberwhich record I was holding up,
but those are the same recordsthat I that I have today.
So I've always had these umrecords in my possession and
I've always had calypso songsand soca songs that really,
really important to me.

(06:59):
But the dive into it would havecome after Feel your Love.
So Feel your Love is a part ofan album, an EP called Yago, and
in executive producing Yago Ihad to go into Calypso and I
want to give credit where creditis due.

(07:19):
Jaron Remy, dj Rockers, was thefirst person to really start
telling me examine all the musicwe make in trinidad and tobago.
All of it is calypso, like all,all of it.
And I start examining all, eventhe reggae that we make carrie
kill mad cow disease, but how hesinging that.

(07:40):
So just take away all that,that whole reggae revival, take
away all the reggae uminstrumentation and imagine um
calypso behind it.
Calypso, I spoke to beaver.
I said beaver, ganja, farmer,talk to me about that, why?
Why is that a hit?
Beaver said flat, is thatcalypso?

(08:01):
It's my little show.
That sent me back into thecrates.
If all of these songs that arehits I mean I sasha, don't you
know your love like, that's themost genre-less song this
country has ever.
This is a ballad but there'span in it, but the lingua sounds

(08:22):
like reggae, but can I help,the melodic structure of it
being that of Calypso.
So that sent me back into thecrates to really study just how
much influence Calypso has onthe soil in Trinidad and Tobago
that we can't escape it.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I heard you say somewherethat the culture is not just a
festival or religion or whateverit is.
The culture is really how youand me interact with each other.
That's right.
So I always felt that anytime,anytime somebody from trinbego
do something, it's done already.
Exactly we talk in thebarbershop like exactly because

(09:03):
you, you line up in any streetcorner, which we do.
It could go from politics towoman, to whole man, this thing,
the pandemic we could talkabout.
That way a man grew up.
So, sometimes you know a maneverything about somebody
without asking him a questionabout himself just through Kaiso
and Kalipso.
Yes, you know, that's why I likewhat Ben Jai say, you know,
when he say the love of his walkand how he just talk and how he
just cook.

(09:23):
Now he's a look to me.
All of it is so I feelencouraged when I hear you
talking about that.
The last episode I listened toyou were talking about that.
You were starting to get intosome depth in voice, calypso.
But I want to talk about yourrecords, because your origin in
music started from vinyls towith your father.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, yes, um, I grew up in pembrokeke, tobago, and
my parents I have one oldersibling, I have an older brother
and my parents decided that forboth of us, they wanted us to
read, so they discarded thetelevision that they had.

(09:59):
So no, TV.
Yeah, as in not give it away,they throw it away.
They don't want no TV in thishouse, so we literally grew up
with just books, the song thatthey see, and vinyls.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Music, so you had to go to the vinyls.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I mean how much book we could read.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Corey how much book we could read.
It flips up to your parents.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
But also, I also grew up very strict Seventh-day
Adventist and to me the musicwas always a pathway to a wider
world of imagination that wasn'tjust religion, school work or
family home.
There was a way that listeningto these records ignited my

(10:54):
imagination to see a world thatI didn't have a television to
see, that I didn't have accessto any videos, music videos no,
those things started in my brain.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, don't tell them YouTube was not wrong when you
were small.
Nah, youtube was not wrong.
Yeah, it had none of that.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah flat screen TVs was never wrong.
Corey, yeah, it used to taketwo men to live up at 20 inches.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, if I had to get a friend when he wanted to move
all the TVs, that's right.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, so music started to play a very important
role in my life because of theaccess to the vinyls and the
cassettes that my father had andalso my brother and I had a
Saturday ritual.
We used to come from churchright, there's morning church

(11:42):
and evening church, church,right, there's morning church
and evening church.
So in between, that period wherewe're taking lunch and resting
a little bit.
We used to.
We used to be vexed to go backto evening church because
evening church starting back at4 pm but at around 3 pm rick
deez and the weekly top 40 usedto start, and if nobody knows

(12:03):
what that is.
Rick de's and the Weekly Top 40used to start, you could hear
some music and if nobody knowswhat that is, rick D's and the
Weekly Top 40 is the longestrunning music show on radio
where it recaps the top 40 songsin the world Right and that
used to be like our soap opera.
We listening to see who getbumped down from song number 10.

(12:24):
One new song coming in.
One new song coming in.
So yeah, it was just a portalfor our imagination.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
I understand, and that would be not genre specific
, the records you're listeningto, or any talk for All.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
You just hear it, yeah all, all, from gospel to
soul.
Maybe not a lot of calypso then, yet yeah, but all.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, I would assume that the early days of you know,
as you say, before you get intosoccer, it is very hard to see.
I hear you call um born intodarkness, a pop album but it's
so hard to put a genre to it.
It's like every song you hearis from something else.
You know.
It went from rock and roll tothat pop, that love song,
feeling R&B, and again youunderstand that I'm listening

(13:10):
through the ears of all themsongs.
Kaizo, to me, is all Calypso.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
All of them is Calypso, corey All, but we
didn't know at the point in time.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
And the reason why that?
And do you know why that albumwas called Born in Darkness?
No, Because we had no reference.
When is there reference?
We had no OGs.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
I see.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
We had nobody to tell us.
So Mohammed, myself and Sherifflocked ourselves in a room and
basically taught ourselves a lot.
Yeah, I suppose I'm not sayingthat the space didn't have ogs,
we just felt like we didn't haveaccess to them.
And so, the same way, um, usherwould have been justin bieber's

(13:54):
oj, you know, and peter dean alot of hot water, but before
that he was he was a lot.
Yeah, he was a lot of people'smentor, of course, so we felt
like we had these stories thatwe needed to tell.
Yeah, but we didn't have thepresence of an older record exec
producer, an artist, say here'show you develop an album, from

(14:18):
song one to the end.
Yeah, I know beaver at thattime to tell you and beaver was
around, but beaver still activein his own personal life and
he's still doing production.
He's still a active musicianand intellectual.
So I mean, how are we going?
Convenience beaver?
like that our industry is notset up like that.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
No, yeah so introduce the mentors.
There's no system ofmatriculation, is a little
tricky.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah.
So looking back, no, we canappreciate that.
Born in darkness, songs likewhat Carl and Carl Jacobs is
doing, sounds like what RobinImamsha was doing, like sounds
like what Ajala was doing, theywere always these.
Sounds like what Mavis John wasdoing.
They were always these trinbegonian musicians who didn't

(15:06):
make festive music, carnivalmusic, and it sounded like it
absorbed whatever the worldinfluence would have been at the
time.
When you strip, when you stripthat away, the songwriting is
calypso, the reference iscalypso.
The way we express the emotionin the words is calypso.
The way we bend of course themelody is calypso.

(15:26):
The way we bend the melody iscalypso.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
You can't escape it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know I was talking toTurner here about that, the way
Turner says words, there's somuch kaiso in everything he does
.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Turner is a throwback , you know.
He's from another life for sureTurner is, and he has always
been that way.
That life for sure Turner is,and he has always been that way
well, it was funny to hear himsay that.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
He said that the Calypso Nian has a God to him.
When you ask him about it, hesaid but the Calypso Nian is the
man, because even when he saidsomething, he said oh lad, oh
lad, that's not from now yeah,you understand that you talked
about his life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, talked about hisupbringing and you know.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Right.
So, growing up in the home, butalso in East Port of Spain,
that is the hotbed of the cult,of course, of course.
So for a youth like that, whocould have been influenced by
anything negative, for Calypsoto be the spirit that he
identified with, that shows that, to me, calypso is the most
potent yeah, yeah, primordial ofcourse, energy.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Well, it's kalinda well, kalinda true that's
kalinda, but manifested ascalypso yeah, and that's why it
would affect and impact so muchother genres all over the world.
Yeah you know, when I hearmolly come here to do to do show
and she had a link up withgladys, you know it shows you
something about what we're doingis special and there's a man
who with Gladys, you know itshows you something about what
we're doing.
It's special and, as a man who'sdiving into the culture to
plenty of our genre, music comeout of orphanage plenty of it

(16:51):
come out of homes, you know whenyou think of it.
So you diving into records,listening to radio, trying to
find yourself.
What is it like when you, whenyou start to find yourself in
music Because you're starting toplay?

Speaker 2 (17:04):
music started from the churches, yeah, so my father
always liked to tell the story.
There was a time he traveled tothe States and he asked me and
my brother what we wanted, and Ithink it was.
My father also had a largecollection of Reader's Digest

(17:24):
Kids.
You wouldn't know what that was, but that was like Instagram in
book form.
Yeah, yeah, with the magazinedays right.
And I had come across this real,life-size fire truck with all
the bells and whistles andthings, and in my mind I was
saying, if I get this, I'm goingto be the man on my glove,
because nobody's going to have atoy like this.

(17:44):
I said, daddy, I want a firetruck like in the Reader's
Digest.
And my brother wanted akeyboard.
My father said he went into astore and he saw the keyboard
and he said I ain't buying nofire truck.
Them boys could share thiskeyboard and, as my father would

(18:06):
tell it, my brother probablyfelt like he owned that keyboard
for five minutes by the timethat keyboard came.
That was my real start to music, like touching a real
instrument.
That opened up an interest tostart singing in church.

(18:28):
Then that opened up for myparents to really observe that.
You know, music is somethingspecial to me.
My father is a skilled joinerand at one point in time he was
doing a lot of work on on yachts, doing the woodworking on the
inside of yachts, and he and hisbusiness partner had done some

(18:51):
work for a really famousmusician who had a yacht dry
dock in trinidad and apparentlyhe didn't have a lot of the cash
available to pay them.
And my father saw a bass guitarthere and he say I have a son
into music.
And the man said, well, this ismy touring instrument, you know
.
But well, you do such a goodjob.

(19:12):
And my father brought that bassguitar for me.
Let me say we, he brought thatbass guitar the monday, the
saturday, I was playing inchurch yeah, never touched a
bass guitar before, but I had afew days to realize notes.
I said, yeah, man, I can play.

(19:33):
And bass guitar became my firstreal instrument that I played
in church.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Serious.
So you're playing with akeyboard.
You're playing a little bassguitar too, Now that playing
music in church is different totelling your parents you want to
become a professional musician.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, I'm so stupid, I never tell them that.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Up to today.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I never tell them that.
They know that.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
I guess they would be seeing it.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
I never tell them that.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
So how religious parents you know?
Trinidad is a place where mostof us, you talk to a lot of
musicians and you find thatpeople find themselves in the
music, within the religion.
I always wonder what it's likefor parents when you start to
play music, that you knowsecular music, as they would say
.
What daddy and them saying atthat point?
Um?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
my musical journey opened up for my father to be
open about his upbringing.
So then that let me know thathe was a part of youth groups
around the time of blackconsciousness and he used to be
singing and performing with hispartners and them in in
community centers, performing asa front but really distributing

(20:43):
black power paraphernalia.
I, he, was a radical usingmusic, so now I know that, yeah,
I'm not really a novelty in thein the family in that way.
The most, um, I would say,reservations would have come
from my mother.
Yeah, she's a very conservativewoman, very spiritual, very

(21:07):
religious, and she prays a lot.
So her reservation right wasalways tight on idea that
musicians just take drugs.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Oh nice, I like that.
I like that.
It's so sweet.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah.
So who gripes now with themusic?
You know it's when the music isa gateway to cocaine.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
It's amazing how they see it, eh, boy?

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, and listen.
At that point I found it to beillogical, like illogical to the
point of hilarious.
This is me as a boy, right, butyou don't test the wisdom on
your parents.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, now Iunderstand.
You see this, not that I'vetaken drugs, but you've seen it.

(22:00):
You have a front row seat.
I didn't say that for you.
I go say it for you.
You see this, I'm not sayingI've taken drugs.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
But you're seeing it, you have a front row seat.
I didn't say that for you.
I go say it for you.
You have a front row seat.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
All I'm saying is I understand the wisdom of my
mother now.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
You know it's funny.
My grandmother told me the samething.
We had a business, we had anopportunity to move to Jamaica
and I was back forth so often.
I tell my father one day I say,boy, I had to go, I had to stay
, you know.
And when I moved, mygrandmother nearly in tears.
She said, boy, don't go andfollow them drug people in
Jamaica where it's coming from.
But I like you guy from proceedto yeah but I, like you, I'm
into partying, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean, who knows?

Speaker 1 (22:36):
who knows?

Speaker 2 (22:37):
you know you never to know he swiped, he didn't touch
you.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Your prayers worked.
Yeah, plenty prayers.
That's the thing with WestIndian children and their
parents.
You back up plenty plentyprayers.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Now my mother could relax because she realized, you
know, free Tongue is a positivegroup and all of that.
But in the early days my motherjust used to call me randomly.
I'm praying for you.
How's the band going?
How's the next one?
Muhammad is his name.
How's he going?

Speaker 1 (23:10):
I'm praying for you, all right but it's funny because
you're all both, uh, fromdeeply religious backgrounds and
that might have affected yourchoices in terms of what you do
with music, where you choose notto with music of course of and
um the reason why, even at thepoint of meeting Muhammad, I

(23:33):
already knew what my path usingmy gift had to be Um, because in
my mind was already the notionum that if if a gift is not used
right, it will destroy youfirst Before you wreak havoc on
others with this gift.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
By the time someone starts destroying community with
the gift, it's because they arealready internally destroyed.
So I always approachmusicianship and just the notion
kori of being an artist issomething that's very reverent
for me and sobering.

(24:12):
Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
It's not something I take for granted or I treat
recklessly at all I'm startingto understand your posts around
this vibes cartel issue becauseI saw people talking about well,
everybody have an opinion aboutvibes cartel not coming to
trinidad.
You know, man say again 90percent of the money and never
sure.
But I saw you as artists comeout and say one of the few
artists I will say that I saidsomething publicly about it to
this point.
Uh, come out and say for you,the spiritual connection with

(24:38):
your fans almost is what is atthe forefront for you and you
might have moved different.
You didn't say what you had todo, but you say you might have
taken that into consideration ifyou come.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
That's where it comes from too in terms of yeah, of
course, Because I understandthat somebody could say well,
examine Vibes Cartoon Music.
He's not a person who stands onprinciples and morals in his
music, he's really a highentertainer.
You know, he offersentertainment as his service.
If you go deeper than that,whether you are saying that the

(25:10):
music is a vehicle for justenjoyment or your music is a
vehicle for upliftment, youcan't escape that music is.
Music is spiritual.
The act of performing, writing,creating out of nothingness an
idea that can access people'semotions, that is a spiritual

(25:34):
transaction.
And when you look at the rippleeffect of that because of songs
that you might have written inyour bedroom, under a mango tree
, in a car, after a breakup inthe river, wherever you were at
at that point of origin of thatidea that can motivate somebody
to buy a new outfit, take a loanfrom the bank, to come and see

(25:58):
you.
So, without trying to be toojudgmental because I'm very
judgmental about ice, right, andif you want your platform to
handle that kind of stress, Icould go there too.
But the takeaway message wasfor me as artists, we have to be
mindful of the full gamut thatputting art out in the universe

(26:23):
can do, and that transcendsfinancial transactions.
That's a spiritual transactionthe ability to get people to do
things that they might not havedone but for your art, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
I'm with you.
I wonder how much artists wouldtake that into consideration,
especially at the top levels.
You know the people who couldcommand $1.3 million for a show.
You know, because in my mindagain as a layman, if you give
me 90% of my thing, the contract, the contract breached, so I'm
waiting my rights to not comeright, but one of our core

(26:59):
values as a company to hisrelationship over rights.
You see what me and you billand what me I always feel.
If me and you refer into acontract, we we done break down
already.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Of course you know I mean of course, if you're
married and you had to betalking about your marriage it's
not gonna work, bro, by thetime we're talking legally is it
is because we have exhausteddiplomacy, we have exhausted an
ability to individually resolveconflict and we're now looking
for external legal systems tohelp us.

(27:32):
But I'm glad, I'm glad you, youtalked about that core value
that your company abide by,because that's where I'm coming
from right, where I'm comingfrom korea, is trinidad and
tobago right, and jamaica has anongoing caribbean sibling
rivalry that we refuse to talkabout.

(27:54):
Right, and on both sides we'reright and on both sides we're
wrong.
But what this has opened up isa conversation for us to have
about how trinidad's energyeconomy has allowed the creative
economy of the caribbean toallow artists of the caribbean,

(28:15):
including jamaican artists, tohave their first proper shows
and get proper pay forinternational appearances.
Ie, let me look at which cameraI could look at.
You could look at all.
Ie.
Trinidad and Tobago has bust somany and when I say bust,

(28:38):
introduced in a major way somany Jamaican artists that that
is valuable cultural context forthis if you understand that the
music consumer market ofTrinidad has supported your
industry for more than fourdecades.

(28:59):
Yes, one instance of badbusiness is enough.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
It speaks volumes.
Right, okay, I would say itspeaks volumes.
They say the highest pay menever get.
I hear Jamaican artists saythat the highest money they ever
get in any other market outsideof Jamaica is here.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Coco T will tell you that Sizzler will tell you, that
Vibe Scar tell himself, willtell you that Beanie man will
tell you that Bounty Killer willtell you that Shabba will tell
you that man like Yami Bolo whowas living in South will tell
you that yeah yeah, yeah, beenhere, right.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, the since, let me make a big difference he's
going by this time he'd have puton a show and he'd have treated
slightly differently.
Because you know, it's likeboth Mr Shark and Kurt Allen are
here, heavy hitters in theCalypso arena, and both of them
said in their own way hey, yousee, between me and my fan, no
judges can come between that, nopromoter can come between that.
The message first and therelationship with the audience

(29:51):
is first.
So I appreciate you saying that.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
It's important to be said.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, and just for the record, there are times when
Freetown has been asked toperform charitably and we've had
to say no, and it's not becausewe don't believe in using our
music for community.
Sometimes there are hardconflicts between charities.

(30:18):
There are hard conflictsbetween other altruistic goals,
of course, of course.
So it's never well, we ain'tgetting paid.
That's why we ain't showing up.
No, we have other commitments,right, yeah, right, that are not
financially related.
That would make this tooonerous and too burdensome for

(30:41):
us to keep the ship afloat.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I'm with you.
Right, I was telling Muhammad.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
I saw you all was on a charity show too, so you get
it done right, yeah, we do we doget it done when we can, and
there are times when we havebeen asked to examine well, okay
, do we?
And this is between me andMuhammad, yeah, we, manager,
want to pay the bills, but weknow that this person can't pay.

(31:08):
What are we doing?
And there are many times thatwe defer to.
And it's not just pleasing thefans, it's understanding that
music is a spirit and the momentwe define our relationship with

(31:29):
music as exploitative, as thebeginning of the end yeah, and I
guess you also conscious of it,destroying you before
everything else too, exactlyexactly so.
So balance, and when I let'slook at it from a, from a, um,
as an objective standpoint, aspossible right receiving 90 of

(31:54):
your money, it's balanced yeah,yeah, let's put a hell of a
balance even if you show up andyou perform for 10 minutes and
you tell your the patrons I'msorry to to give all your wet
beak.
Yeah, but I still show up, eventhough me and guy have bad
business.
But I wanted you all to seethat I was still willing to show

(32:16):
up.
Yeah, for your fans.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, it has happened before.
I remember sometime bountykiller might have cussed on
stage and they, they started tostop the show and elephant man
them came back I believe it wasrory mirage and he come and he
said you're gonna do a free show.
And they came back and they doa free show and things just go
wrong.
Well, you know that world isdifficult but um so many, so
many things can be donedifferently.
That is you still unfolding asyou speak, waiting for word from

(32:40):
the promoter and so on.
It it would.
It would never die off.
But the choices you make inmusic influenced heavily by that
connection with that audience.
And I want to go back to you.
The first starting to performand it was spoken word.
Where did that come from?
Where did the poetry part?
Is it in school or where youget the influence?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
no, what kind of music you think I just listened
to mostly mostly you.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yeah, I would have said reggae if I had to guess.
Wow, stereotype much.
You need to judge him fromluciano.
Get up and sing, you know whatI mean.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
But kaisa and soka nah, let me, let me you know who
make it happen is.
Let me give a infamous make ithappen rap line.
I is the only rap man my dogand them does listen to
conscious.
I see, is that real rap man?
Yeah, yeah man, yeah, legit,legit.
So I wanted to rap.
But when I, when I look around,I say okay, as he shines the

(33:40):
hood's greatest, do anything.
As he make it happen, doanything.
I see spot rushers doing thething, um, even um, highway
records is doing the thing.
Uh, I say I don't think I coulddo that.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
But yeah, I don't have any production.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
then I don't have no beats, no nothing.
And again, this is beforeYouTube.
I say, okay, well, all theseverses I have, I will just
poetrify them.
I got you, I can just spokenwordify them, but it's really
rap verses.
I was doing as I'm spoken word.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I understand, I understand, and that circuit is
where you first met Muhammad.
You also met there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah that mutualrespect developed from there.
Yes, Now I hear you say when hewas booked to go England
Muhammad spoke about it before,but he didn't tell me all the
time.
He had one tune and it was timeto go with it.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, but we, I would say two tunes Right, right, a
song called mama africa andperform that in a while, though
it might perform that tonightmama africa and, um, yeah, we
performed mama africa and lovetransition.
Those were the only two songswe had, right, so it was two

(34:56):
songs and, well about you know,six poems between all of us who
went what were you doing sospecial that you feel people
reaching out to you it's a bookhere and that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
At that point in time , what were all people finding
you without youtube and withoutsocial media?

Speaker 2 (35:12):
well, um, the, the.
The ground zero stage wouldhave been ue speak right um,
which was a, an open mic startedby muhammad in u and you could
hear about an event.
But showing up to the event isa different thing.
The first time I showed up toUE speak, I swear it was a fete,

(35:37):
the way the excitement and thestudents will react into.
And, of course, they had somepoems that were like audience
favorites, so that people knewthe words of, people knew the
words to poems.
Corey, yeah, I would not think.
I would not think, yeah, peopleknew lines and would shouting

(35:58):
it back like if it's put yourhand in the air, come to see
that yeah, it was.
It was the.
The live performance, umatmosphere was very different at
that point, right right.
The idealism on campus was wasvery different.
The political motivations forstudents to make a better world
was was very different.

(36:19):
This is before we start seeingplenty nakedness on instagram I
think you're distracted now, butwe were still closer to the
idealism of our parents and akind of society that they dreamt
of and felt like we couldfinish the good work to do, and
so that in itself generated abuzz off campus.

(36:42):
So, yeah, being able togenerate that kind of energy on
campus affected off campus right, oh, it's here.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
So it's so that the exposure name starting to get
her up, yeah, and by that allstarted from on campus gotcha
plenty movements, huh yeah, lookat what the university should
mean.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
All of them, yeah, black power started yeah on
campus too I wonder.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
I'll try not to know, though.
Do you think the campus couldbe a space like that again?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
every now and again, you see it rise up to be that
yes, but it can't be a fictionof the past, it can't be
romanticized based on a timebefore technology I guess we
have to be able to.
Yeah, we have to be able to usetechnology as a tool for
community, because that's that'sall university really is.

(37:31):
It's community, because it'ssuch radical thought.
It's easy for me to show up ifother people show up.
I don't want to be single.
The police are they spray downpeople with water?
I don't want it to be me alone.
Yes, israeli community.
How do we find an establishedcommunity?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
um, in a time that is dominated by technology, yeah,
and you're right, it could be sodifferent, because I remember
going in ue and it might, youknow.
You think that your ideas arenow coming out of the most
rebellious phase in your liferight definition in your teenage
years, and you think that thesethings you have is so novel and
yeah and when you meet otherpeople, you're not alone.

(38:12):
Yeah, you find a tribe.
Yeah, so you're finding thattribe.
By that time, you and muhammadare already free town collective
at our point.
No, no, not yet so when you'retraveling the first time, you're
not no and you will, but by thetime you're not no in UWE, you
will, but by the time you'regetting booked not yet.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
No, in UWE we weren't Right.
So Freetown Collective the nameFreetown was born in London, I
see.
So London created Freetown andthat's why, to this day, we
raise a lot of capital to go ontour in London.
You know, we've been blessed tobreak even and sometimes make

(38:49):
some profit, because London,when we went to do that show at
the Tabernacle, right, we didn'tknow the effect of that show,
but immediately after that, someresidents of London came up to
us and said that they would liketo invite us for lunch, right,

(39:11):
which would have been thefollowing day.
We found the place, we showedup and, korea, it was an entire
room of caribbean professionals,like high level professionals,
like senior council lawyers,accountants, bankers, who are

(39:31):
present at that show.
Remember, we're now finishinguniversity, we're trying our
thing, right, and we are in aliving room, lunch prepared, and
we are around Caribbean people,guyana, barbados, because I
mean, once you're outside of theregion, it's become brothers
and sisters, right?
Yeah, all of a sudden youunderstand what unity.

(39:52):
Is it's true?
Yeah, so they were reallyinstrumental in the forming of
Freetown, because they, in avery sobering way, put us to sit
down Right and we performed.
We performed a few well, thetwo songs and some of the and

(40:16):
some of the poems Right.
And they said you all don'tknow what this means for us.
They said all we hear from backhome is soccer music.
And then when we go back homein person, the reality that we
encounter does not mirror whatwe get from the music.
The music will let us, will makeus feel as though everything is

(40:39):
all right.
Yeah, we're drinking rum asnormal and and and you know, the
caribbean is just this realhappy place.
But when they go back to thecaribbean, they realizing some
different people have it hardand they were able to get that
kind of narrative from the poemsand the music that we did and

(41:00):
they urged us whatever plans youwill have for your lives, just
don't stop this.
I understand because, whilewhat you are doing might be
important for trinidad andtobago, the caribbean diaspora
needed even more so that wouldhave given you kind of the
emphasis to see who's your thatwas yes, that was it.
That was it, you know.

(41:21):
And so you have muhammad tryingto finish up his civil
engineering, me trying to finishup law and Keegan trying to
finish up something else.
And it was a bleak day.
I remember this.
All three of us just standingup in silence looking at the
Thames, coal figuring out life,an existential moment.

(41:45):
Coal figuring out life, aexistential moment.
And one of us would have brokenthe silence and say we had to
try this when we go home, likewherever the plans are here, we
could finish up school, but wehave to try this.
Yeah and um.
Then muhammad had a song calledcall the city free town.
And, yeah, keegan was the onewho says I think Muhammad

(42:08):
suggested, well, I think weshould go with the Freetown
thing, and Keegan said, yeah,but we had to call it Freetown
Collective.
Why didn't you come up with thecollective Collective?
You know because Keegan, keeganMaharaj, a really powerful
spoken word poet.
He's a man who really KeganMaharaj, a really powerful
spoken word poet.
He's a man who really believesin community and there's a way

(42:36):
that East Indians have a way ofliving community.
That isn't always the averageexperience for the African,
Trinidadian and Trinbagonian.
So there is a description and afeeling of community that he
had that he kind of impressedupon us.
That had to be part of themodel moving forward.
Like have to be about people.
So the collective is everybody.

(42:58):
We would be the core ofFreetown but once you believe in
Freetown you're part of thecollective.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
It explains some of the performances and the tight
spaces and some of theperformances and the tight
spaces and some of the parts ofthe mission that collective got
it.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
That is the DNA of our business model.
I'm with you it is a communitymodel.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
I'm with you.
I heard you say at that pointin time you decided Muhammad's
going to work on his voice forthe next six months.
You're going to work on guitar.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
So at that, when you go on there.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
you're not playing the way you play now.
You're not playing Hell noSerious no, Bro no.
Just stand up and sing.
You're just playing.
No, no, no, no, because so faryou tell me keyboard, then you
say bass.
Yeah, so how it become?
Now you're going to spend timeto perfect the guitar.
You just needed it in the bandthen.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
When we started making these songs and spoken
with, Muhammad was a betterguitarist than I was.
I couldn't play guitar.
I did not have a guitar At thatpoint when still going to

(44:12):
school, right, and my wifewatching me.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
She know the career path that I'm on.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, when this music thing fitting in my friend.
You know what's happening.
Yeah, once I married a lawyerand I had a child on the way.
Mm-hmm, yeah, so seriousmatters.
Despite that right, and I wantto say that the women who are in

(44:41):
artists' lives are so criticaland so important to their
success, and there are somewomen who desire for their
contributions to be private,because there is some emotional
safety around people knowingwhat you just do.
Tools of that, or what I wouldsay is the first proper guitar

(45:06):
that I had was purchased by mywife.
I see she didn't know that Samowas taking place, but she said
that thing you're playing there,it's not sounding good, it's
not sounding good.
I don't know where we're goingto find the money, but you'll
get something better than that.

(45:26):
I think she would have saidthat after she came to a UE
speak, I think probably a weekafter that, I see her, I get her
in her box.
I say okay, but there was adesire to get better.
After London, there was a desireto commit it and do this in a

(45:46):
way that required better.
After London, there was adesire to commit it and do this
in a way that required it to bedone.
So I used to study, right, nolie, before London, my average
study day was 17 hours.
This is when you were doing law.
Yeah, doing law.
I used to study was 17 hoursCorrect.

(46:06):
This is when you were doing lawyeah, doing law.
I used to study for 17 hours.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
So I mean all your waking hours.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
All my waking hours, and some sleeping hours too.
All the house used to havepapers on the walls of cases.
I used to live and breathe that.
And now I have to divide myattention with that.
And so 17 hours studying law andthen now while starting to play
the guitar.
Now I would alternate.

(46:32):
So monday I'll study, ontuesday I'll do some light
revision and play guitar wholeday.
I'm not a formally trainedmusician.
All that you hear from me ishard work.
Nobody said if you want to playguitar you should start on
nylon strings yeah, let's say itstarted steel, bro.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
That explains a lot too.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
He started on steel strings on a fretboard that
looked like a harp, the, youknow, gypsy have a.
Have an album called the actiontoo high I mean your fingers on
both hands going through itgoing through it, there was
blood coagulating under underthe nails of my left hand, the

(47:15):
hand that holding the cord,because I had to learn, I had to
learn, yeah, and I, I, I justtried, tried, and at some point
YouTube became more and more instream and, yeah, be sent out on
tutorials.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Ah, with you.
So you didn't decide to dropout of law at the time.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
No, no, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have to do
both.
Where would I live?

Speaker 1 (47:44):
After she buy the guitar, she's supposed to know
that is it for law school.
No, no, no, no, no.
I had to finish, so you finishyour law degree?
Yeah, yeah, why law?

Speaker 2 (47:52):
um, so in tobago I started off in journalism.
Really, yeah, that's why thepodcast and thing has struck it.
It see, I started off as ajunior reporter and editor for
Tobago News.
So I actually worked for TobagoNews and my editor at the point

(48:15):
in time, earl man Mohan, a manwho changed my life too, he said
you should go and pursue thisLike you could go to Custard and
study this.
He said I will put you keithsmith, editor at large.
Um, he, he had some weekendclasses and thing.
I'll put in a good word for youyou could, you could pursue

(48:36):
this like you're good, you couldwrite, of course, and so that's
what I did.
I came down to trinidad fromtobago with my very radical idea
of changing the word by beingan investigative reporter.
What's that?
Yeah, Even worse.
And I had.

(48:58):
I had um Kirwin Pyle Williams Icall him out your name.
He was one of my lecturers inuh in costat and he was
responsible for my ethics courseand in ethics, ethics and law.
And he, he, he said you know,you should, you should look into
um.
No, because you have a.

(49:18):
You have a brain for ethics andlegal reasoning, so so you
should, you should pursue it.
I didn't take that tooseriously, but there was another
teacher who was responsible forteaching us critical thinking I
won't call your name Based onassignments that I used to

(49:38):
submit.
He always used to say littleboy, they gonna kill you.
I don't think.
I don't think journalism is foryou.
Yeah, too radical.
No, this is unsafe, Like thisangle that you want to take news
from.
That's not the purpose of news.

(49:59):
You have to manage information.
You just want to disruptsociety.
No, that's not manageinformation.
You just want to disruptsociety.
Now, that's not.
Yeah, so and he, and, and heused to say joke jokingly at
first, but then he, he reallytold me now you will not get
work if you don't understandwhat the, what the fourth estate

(50:21):
of media is supposed to do as apolitical entity.
Right, forget the corporateside.
Like you, trying to adopt thisas a as a way of being a
journalist is is not going towork I see but that is what my
idealism was tied to.
So then I say if I can't do that, then yeah, so costa was media

(50:41):
was?
It was journalism and publicrelations.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
I see Stories tend to come together a little bit.
You know I'm starting to seesome of it because just watching
the way it would break downissues on full disclosure back
in the day.
Very, very structured.
I don't know if people mightknow how much research would go
into what you had to do.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
It just seems like showing up and talking.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
All of that is a result of um being in media and
then going to school to study it, right, right, and a certain
level of determination too,because anybody who ever tried
to play a guitar and then hearyou play a guitar, you feel like
you can't get.
Yeah, listen, the first time Ihear you play was in a show in
anchorage.
It was a habitat for humanity.

(51:22):
Um, uh, this is the hungerbanquet, or something like that,
and I hear all the men play, weplaying, we playing after me
and my father, our band is oldtime Kaiso, so we playing after
all the fellas.
But in them days I was tellingMuhammad, you heard Freetown
Collective, but you don't knowwhat it is.
I don't know what is acollective and you know it's
just a song.
I don't know what that is.
And then y'all came and play afew songs and thing, and it was.

(51:45):
You had the crowd in a grip.
People, people know some ofthese songs, but even the ones
that they know, they can't beignored.
But I remember hearing you playthem time.
I didn't realize you're singing.
I hear you play dread and Itrying to figure out what you
doing.
So I said I'm going to gocloser, boy, yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure.
My father now has one of thegreatest in guitar too.

(52:06):
But you're doing something andI say I see what you're doing.
Boy, you guys play quattro.
I try to imitate what men do onthe guitar, on the quattro.
So I can sing like I see that Itry to imitate what the fellas
look at, what we call.
But I come a little closer andI say if I could see a hand, if
I could just see that right hand, I could figure out what it is
you're doing on.
No hope, no chance whatsoever.

(52:28):
Just I don't enjoy it and takeit.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
You know, I, I used to be very and to this day a
little bit, I'll admit to bevery insecure about my guitar
playing.
Yeah, because again the openmic spaces were populated with
actual musicians, like just theother day, I tell Kyle, right, I

(52:50):
say Kyle, I used to hide when Isee all your guitar parts, I
literally used to pull back.
You know that meme with HomerSimpson disappearing in the bush
Bro.
I used to hold my guitarbecause I said them is real
musicians Now what I doing.
And that used to further propelme to practice for like 10

(53:13):
hours a day, 12 hours a day, andI just developed my technique.
The breakthrough came whenthere was a fire festival in
Cuba some some years ago I can'tremember what year that was
exactly this is not a firefestival or flop.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no
, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Cuba actually has something called the fire
festival and trinidad and tobagosent a contingent.
Okay, and it wasn't even theband with the woman, yet it was
just still me and muhammad.
And we went on that trip.
On that trip, lord superior wasstill alive.
Lord superior was thecalypsonian who went right.

(53:56):
I see whole trip, even from inthe airport.
And thing I seen this mandressed to the nines, right in a
pristine leather guitar case oranything, and this man they
watching me on.
Mom, real contempt, realcontempt.
Like who are these youngins?

(54:17):
I don't know them, from nowhere.
And his, his, his attitude waswas just real, standoffish,
serious, like real right, butthe night that we performed at
the gala.
So there's the gala event andwe will perform, we will.
It's a wild story.

(54:42):
We were slated to perform threesongs.
This is a non-English speakingaudience.
We went to a smaller event, itwas a poetry reading and we were
going to close it with somemusic.
Lord superior, wasn't there?
A human guy who could barelytalk english, called fernando,
comes up to us and says that heis an uh something, physicist.

(55:07):
That's his day job, right, buthe really want to be a musician.
Thanks, fernando says that hewill be our friend in cuba while
we did nice.
So he asked if we perform inany way.
Again, you say we said yeah,we're performing at the gala
event.
He asked if he could come andperform with us on stage.

(55:27):
I said how?
He said nah, just play guitartoo.
Something in me, corey.
Just say you know what, comethrough, fernando, we show up to
the gig.
Fernando right Shows up.
It is hair slick back Ray-Banaviators.
Fernando right Shows up.

(55:48):
It is hair slicked back,ray-ban aviators and a black
leather jacket with a Fender.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Stratocaster A Strat, a black and white Strat,
beautiful.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
And we go and say I have not heard Fernando play in
my life and he ain't hear ally'all playing.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
No, no, no.
He heard Fernando play in mylife and he ain't here while
you're playing.
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
He heard at the open mic Right.
So we on stage and they gave usa corner of the stage.
They said this is the old spot,do not move from here.
Like we are stage right in anice little cubicle and don't
move from here.
It's a good thing.
Man like Muhammad don't knowhow to follow rules.

(56:29):
So I, I strike up sony, whichis a scotch drum right, and I
strum in.
I see muhammad like he can'tmove.
Muhammad then takes the mic offof this, off off of the stand,
and goes center stage and tellspeople to get up.
An entire audience of about athousand cubans who can't talk

(56:51):
english gets up and is clappingfernando then goes center stage
and starts shredding rock starstyle while I am trying.
I trying to keep this car going, fernando.
What are you doing?
Fernando, go on, but it wasepic, yeah.
After that performance, lordSuperior then comes up to

(57:17):
Muhammad and I and speaks to usfor the first time on the trip
and he said you all arephenomenal.
Yeah.
He said both of your voicesblend perfectly, phenomenal.
He said both of you all voicesblend perfectly.
And he said whatever you doingon that guitar, he said that is
madness.
Whatever you doing there,that's, that's you and I telling

(57:37):
you it working like he don'teven know what notes I playing
but, he said it working and fromthere I I got comfortable with
well people might.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
For people who don't know that, coming from lord
superiors, there's a.
There's a big endorsement.
Soupy was many calypso, near cm,as the guitar is soupy and
relator yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,them fellas, yeah, when they
play, yeah, yeah, well, yeah,that so so.
So.
So now when I I get a chance tocome to tight spaces, I tell my
mom I, but I reach late, I vexBecause I want to blend into the

(58:07):
back of the place.
I had to come and sit downright opposite you and Ruckus
now, and I hear the way you allblend Because you play acoustic
down there, ruckus, you playelectric bass and the way you
all blend.
That is something else.
When I'm watching you, I know Iwant to.
They didn't figure out nothingReally.
They had nothing figured out.
There's a tightness on hisstrumming, though it really.
It really is.
I feel good about that, yeahtight, tight, tight, Well if

(58:30):
Superior tell you that.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and I actually I actuallyrevere people like Lord Superior
, um Relator, but also KennyPhillips.
Like Quiet has kept, he hassome colours that he has
contributed to some of your bestsongs Of course.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Yeah, I was telling him that.
I wonder, you know, we talkabout education and them kind of
thing.
You all both you and Mohamedwould it be a parent's dream,
one studying engineering, thenext one studying law?
That's what dream.
One study in engineering, thenext one study in law.
That's where you want to knowwhen you're getting older.
You're trying on them and bothof them come out and went into
music.
And if you're saying that, borninto darkness, coming out from
lack of a reference point, lackof mentors and so on, I feel

(59:14):
like we have an opportunity withplaces like uct to document
what kenny phillips did yes,show what he played.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that'sa calypso hand it's important,
or kylo yourself because, um, Iwas learning.
I went to edna manly in jamaicajust doing guitar for a little
while in the school and talk tothis teacher.
What men didn't know?

(59:35):
Talk the things.
Okay, this man, this is hisstyle.
Yeah, he was strumming, this iswhat peter tosh was doing and
you gotta, you gotta learn to dothat talk the things.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
And and not only that with edna manly, you have your
practicum.
You had to learn to do that.
That's part of the class Talkthe things.
And not only that with EdnaManley, you have your practicum.
You had to go in the hotel andgig.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Listen, it is.
You know who was in class withme in the, not the practical, in
the theory class, rashaan,who's Cartel producer, wow, and
he was there doing music theorylike everybody else, and that
already, but sitting through theclasses and them kind of thing,
you know.
So I wonder when we will getthere, you know, I wonder when.
Soon, man, soon.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Well, you're doing somebody and and to tie it all
back right.
That is why I'm doing for therecord.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
This is what I mean.
That's what I mean, becausedocumenting it and making sure
that we know.
Okay, so you say a skastrum,and anybody who know music know
what you mean.
But we, when we say play akaisaiso, play a kalipso, play a
soka, somebody who knowslearning guitar, they don't even
teach our songs as part of howwe learn music.
It's still.
Mary had a little lamb, we andthem kind of things.

(01:00:35):
You know, ori, can I ask you aserious?

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
question Trinidad and Tobago is the birthplace of
kalipso music.
True or false?
True Birthplace of Soca music.
True or false?
Yeah, the most authenticcarnival in the world.
Yeah, why are we playingrecorders in Form 1?
Boy, let me tell you something.

(01:00:58):
Yeah, no, no, no.
Let me add one more.
Tell me we created this steelpan.
No, somewhat.
Why are we playing recorders inForm 1?

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
You're going to get people upset in Olu.
Let me tell you something.
I had Duvon Stewart here, whois Renegade's arranger.
He said exactly what you justsaid.
I talked to him up to yesterday.
He wants to come back to talkabout some of them things.
Why are we playing?

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
recorders.
In Form 1?
They have answers.
And in Form 1, right, we don'tknow about Rudolf Charles.
And in Form 1, okay, I don'twant to go too much in the who
created Soka, we go get him.
But we don't have a referencepoint formally in education for

(01:01:47):
who lord shorty is, for why 1974, 1975, is a pivotal year, sure,
sure, why, why?
Why?

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
I don't know.
We had to change it.
Let me start by saying that,right, we this us as a group
here, we had to start to changethat because we care, we care,
dead and gone and somebody elsecoming here asking people the
same questions.
So we must change it.
Because I'll tell you that whenhe said that, I got numerous
calls from people in pan who atthe time duvon was here I might
have had four or five guestsbefore so they might be seeing

(01:02:17):
the bigger picture I said people, listen, is our body a work?
It's not one interview, it'snot one conversation.
So they disagreed with his takeon putting the pan in schools
based on how much it would costparents or the more, the, the um
, the pan too big.
And I'm like listen, a recorderis a, it's really designed for
teaching.
I've never gone to a gig andsee somebody playing a recorder

(01:02:39):
in a use in a eurocentricclassical music.
Yeah, so our context is lessapplicable.
So, any.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Okay, let me find the best way I could phrase this.
My parents tried to send me toa piano lesson.
Right, I went to Miss Phillipsonce.
I had my hand trying to do thatposture that she was trying to

(01:03:12):
do and she whacked my hand witha go of a whip, nice, and I
never went back.
That was it.
I wanted to punch that oldwoman in the face and I couldn't
do that as a child.
Yeah, so better you don't goback.
I'm not going back.
And while that, maybe my story.

(01:03:35):
There are kids who can'tappreciate music as a
Trinbigonian child from arecorder in form one.
Yeah, it's difficult, there's adisconnect.
Now there are kids who comefrom singing musical families.
Parents are musicians, they canadapt easier.
But to say that the kids whocan't find themselves in music

(01:03:59):
and orient themselves in a lovefor it because they didn't
survive the recorder is toignore what is what is
indigenous to us.
Yeah, at least a jimby.
Yeah, because we could.
We could teach calypso handdrum rhythm.
Right, we could teach adoption,of course.
Right, we could teach calypsohand drumming.
Yeah, a little rhythm.
Right, we could teach doption,of course.

(01:04:19):
We could use that to nowintroduce kalinda.
Yeah, yeah, and how?
Kalinda live, way, call andresponse the bedrock for calypso
.
There's a way that we can craftour music modules to mirror who
we are as a society that honorsand pays tribute to our history
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
That's right, but we had to do it.
They will not dare.
They will not dare because Isee boys my son going, fatima,
for instance, right, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, that's my school
too.
I don't put that out there toomuch in marriage.
Men has come here and you know.
But.
But I watch boys go to schoolwho play hockey, drag a huge bag

(01:05:00):
with 10 hockey sticks in it,men who play cricket.
They come out in the morning,they drag out their thing and I
can't understand why they pantoo big.
It's not prestigious.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
You feel that's where it comes from.
It's still part of Okay.
Do you think that as a societysociety we've done enough
psychological work of admittingthat pan men used to be
classified as criminals?

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
you feel it could start from there, boar men stick
fighter.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
We used to classify them psychologically in our mind
.
I understand.
So now the best we could do iscarve out some space in our

(01:05:49):
brain and classify it as culture, as entertainment, but it's
still not part of our identity,because if something is part of
your identity, you'll carry it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Of course, of course, of course, yeah.
So teaching my little child thething that the criminal was
doing might be a problem in theeducation system.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Yeah, well, but first we have to admit, and in
admitting we might have to issuesome public political apologies
to communities, because thisnow is an instrument that is
part of our identity.
But people get locked up andbeat for this thing.
Of course, families disown menfor this thing.

(01:06:34):
Right, there was a period wherepan men used to be considered
workless men, of course, ofcourse.
Men of no ambition.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Yeah, yeah, listen to David Rudd, that verse in
Ingenium powerful.
You say.
Same woman who used to lock upopen the church door to pray on
my head, now she boasting thatmy granddaughter beat her steel
band but never really.
You're right, society neverreally accepted that.

(01:07:03):
I like where you say just castthe society as culture and
culture is one of them.
Things where it's just likesports in schools.
You know you're doing bad inyour school.
They take you out of this orthey take you out of that no
more.
They want to play pando, butwith pan.
If you care, do maths andenglish on them as if pan is not
maths and english how?
yeah, we had to change it.
We had to do the work you'redoing and, to some extent, me
opening some of theconversations up.
I'm hoping that you're right,but I can tell you that the
resistance is real.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
I've had no more pushback on any episode than
when it is one come and say thatpeople was upset and you know
that was one of my favoriteepisodes because I a fascination
with steel pan.
Yeah, I also have a fascinationwith um, with steel pan players
, right, every time I see a panman or a pan woman, I just

(01:07:44):
there's, there's regret.
No, there's regret, yeah, yeah,I so.
So, sheriff, myself and andJohn Gill went to a pan yard at
a function there and I see a man.
He just looked like a pan man,but he also had a big silver
chain with a big pan pan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Button.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
So I asked him.
I said how long are you a panman?
Calculate, calculate, calculate.
He said I'm a pan man for 52years now.
He's a pan man, longer than Ialive.
I say let me ask you a hardquestion.
I say you walking through townon a quiet, breezy, easy night,

(01:08:29):
you hear a pan in the distance.
You could tell who practicing.
And you say yeah.
You say yeah.
You say it has some small sidesthat will surprise you, but for
the most part I know who have asound there is.
I say why, how you could do thatand this is just a man, he not

(01:08:49):
looking like no intellectual ornothing.
He said you have to remember aband is an orchestra.
He said it's mathematical.
He said just imagine with methe extent of your orchestra is
40 pieces, all right.

(01:09:11):
You, as the owner of this band,could say that 20 of your
orchestral pieces is cellos.
So you want that bassy song?
Nobody will tell you that youcan't do that.
And if you want 15 violas afterthat, and then you you want one
timpani, I said okay, okay.
He said that is a sound, ofcourse.
So if you follow that,understand that every steel

(01:09:35):
orchestra, depending on thesound that they want will assign
how many pieces per section.
My brain blew right there.
That might be part of theproblem.
So the fact that I am amusician in Trinidad and Tob

(01:09:55):
tobago and my way of learning isI have to go in search of it,
right, and people have a way ofsaying, well, if you have a
person in this culture and youdon't know this, you shouldn't
be playing music.
And to a point, yeah, but yourpoint would be stronger if that
information was part of ourcultural way of learning about

(01:10:16):
ourselves, and I choose not to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Yeah, I agree a hundred percent.
You do have the option.
You have to go and seek it out.
That's why I tell you I enjoy,I enjoy for the record, because
it's only when you read the backof some records I say that
makes sense.
But this man is do this as well, I hear you talk about artists
and trend that beingmultidimensional, with some of
the things that rather do itgraphics.
Who would know that?
You can't know where you know,but you answer your own question

(01:10:41):
because the fact that that manwearing that silver chain with
that pan and the way he look,they don't want him come to
school to teach nobody nothing.
The music teacher must have alook and a way of speaking you
understand and the yeah, and youknow, even in the way you learn
guitar they try to teach youformally.
That didn't work out.
It's the same thing as me andagain I get that getting close

(01:11:03):
to a man who's playing andwatching hand, because that's
how I learn to play music.
I watch my uncle and them playquattro.
I watch their hand and listenand I try that and I hear
something like it, only only tofind out years later when I
created the same song he played.
He's trying to figure out whatyou do.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
I said yeah, yeah, same same, yeah, but and men
learn, like that too there are acouple musicians in this
culture that I am openly enviousof.
I'm jealous of their ability,yeah, and at the top of my list
is mikhail sals.
Yeah, his ability to executeperfect pitch does vex me.

(01:11:41):
I wish he was a shorter man soI could fight him.
The fact that he could intonatethe exact note that he is
playing with his eyes closeddoes vex me, and the fact that
this is something that still wenonchalant about that it's just.

(01:12:02):
It's just yeah, we nonchalantabout the ability to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
We're nonchalant about that well, I'll tell you
two other stories before I moveon from this.
When I went, fatima ray holmanwas a teacher and I never knew
nothing between holman and pan.
I just did not know he wasteaching spanish right.
Mikhail said it was with me ina levels.
I went and I never know nothingbetween hallman and pan.
I just did not know he wasteaching spanish right.
Mikhail said it was with me ina levels.
I went tranquil.
I never behaved in fatima sothey put me out.
I went tranquil to do it and hewas in my class and I never

(01:12:27):
knew he was into music, arts oranything like that.
Because, yeah, you're gonna domob pob and whatever the things
are.
There's no space.
There's no structured space forthe creativity.
Or even if you get into music,most of the people who is
musicians is not also musicclasses, really, yeah, but Duvon
got glad to hear it's all bodyrecorded.
That is one of them pet peeves.

(01:12:48):
Duvon, I will fight them withyou yeah, we will start a
movement, we will start amovement but for the record,
it's one of the movements that,uh, that advance in it a lot in
terms of your ability to, I hopeso, yeah, yeah, I hope so, and
to me, um, going viral is notthe point.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
The the indication of success of it so far is many
young people is this refreshingreaching?
out and saying I have thisquestion, like a young dj
reached out last week and hesaid um, would you consider um
djs who remix and do road mixes?
Would you consider them to bearrangers of the?

(01:13:29):
Now, I say not really becauseyou can't, you should have some
arrangement sensibilities to dothat.
But the depth of the role of anarranger was to imagine the
landscape of the song, eitherbefore production or during
production, and score the partsfor each voicing of each

(01:13:51):
instrument.
And in understanding that, ifthat is the role of the arranger
, why pelham goddard is not afixture that everybody knows?
Yeah, like why beaver, who'sstill alive?
Right, who who arranged umshadow?

(01:14:14):
Somebody go home.
Yeah, you know that.
Yeah, you have a whole hero.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
He's responsible for a hero.
Same thing you say about Kenny.
I'm telling Kenny that I say,kenny, let's shape what music
song like?
These guys are still alive andwe just nonchalant about it.
I like how you put it we justnonchalant about it them is my
Mozart but I wait here on thenumbers part, I don't again, as

(01:14:38):
somebody who's doing this too, Ireally don't care about the
numbers.
I care about the person who Isit down with.
I understand the impact of thepeople I sit with and I think,
if if you're you're a fan of lou, if you might listen to kenny
and in the connection I try tocurate who comes next.
I I spend a lot of time tryingto figure out.
Okay, alright, once people'sschedules are low I could

(01:14:58):
release it, because I also needfor people who understand who
Kenny is to listen to Lou or tolisten to Kute, because we have
this disconnect in society wherepeople feel young people and
blah and younger people, allpeople, and nobody talking to
one another let me say thisabout Kenny.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Muhammad knew Kenny before I knew him Right, and he
always used to joke every timehe see us that Muhammad is a
wayward outside child.
Yeah, but there was a point,there was a time where I could
only play the guitar hard, right, and I guess it was all the
anger and frustration in me.
Ask anybody who is an OGresident of Freetown.

(01:15:37):
I used to bust a string everyother game.
I used to have a pack ofstrings on standby, but so was
the quality I get us to.
I was not always a tailor manGod bless me but even then every
time we played somewhere thatKennyny was, he would come up to

(01:15:59):
us afterwards and tell us,continue, continue.
And when I look back and I seehow crappy we was and these men
who the legacy was already likesolidified right was able to see
the potential of free town, Ihave nothing but.
And I didn't even know thedepth of his catalog, I didn't
even know who he was or what hewas was muhammad.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Who tell me hey, nah, kenny is a big deal, yeah but
you're right, how you know, hewill always have my respect.
Yes, good, and you have his,you have his, you have his.
You go hear the episode and itcome out at the time we're
recording.
This.
Ain't any episode yet, so butnice space.
And going back to because youhave a deep sense of
appreciation for kaizo, calypsoand so on now, and I I

(01:16:44):
appreciate I feel I know plentykaizo and calypso, but when I
listening to you, it's like whatis this man saying?
I didn't see that.
I didn't hear that.
One never hear this song.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
You digging deep in the crates, yeah, you know
looking at popular music only soso hear this right there's a,
there's a way where our music isenjoyed.
Okay, how to say this?
Our music is very contextual.
The average trend big one hasemotional our music when we lime

(01:17:17):
in Because that's how we'vebeen conditioned to pair
ourselves with our music.
I had to deliberately, as amusician, create time to listen
to Kaiso and Calypso, the way Iwould listen to rap.
The way I would sit with awhole Nas album.
The way I would listen to Bl,the way I would sit with a whole

(01:17:37):
nas album.
The way I would listen to toblueprint volume one.
The way I would listen to tochronic 2001, and not just
listen to it, as is my culture,but listen to why that snare
fall in in what is the pocket ofthem drums and the more I do
that corey is the morelisten is the more I realize in
our musicians we're wilding, bro.

(01:17:59):
It's crazy.
It's crazy they were wilding.
And I now understand whycalypso is the mother genre of
all new music.
Before calypso.
Right, let me just say this forthe record Before Calypso music
, what was accepted as music inour popular space was

(01:18:23):
derivatives of Eurocentricclassical music.
The mother of Calypso music isKalinda, is Loveways.
Then Calypso is the first worldmusic genre to successfully

(01:18:46):
trans, to successfully crossover from being folk music to
number one chart-topping music.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
You understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Every indigenous culture have their folk music.
Calypso was the first folkmusic to be on charts to make
millions to send people on tourto send men Buckingham Palace.
And that's why, once you knowCalypso and you listen to blues,

(01:19:20):
you realize, oh okay, there isa legend.
There was a legendary bluessinger from Louisiana called
Lead Belly Right.
He used to play a 12-stringguitar Lead.
When you study how lead, youlisten to Lead Belly, lead Belly

(01:19:42):
songs like American CalypsoRight, but it's really I don't
know how to say it Cajun orCajun music, oh, okay okay,
mm-hmm.
And the mother of Cajun music iscalendar.
So, as the first child ofkalinda to make it to the shiny
lights, to sell platinum, tobecome popular music of the

(01:20:04):
world, every other popular genrewould have borrowed from the
composition structure of calypso, including blues, including
ragtime, including jazz,including swing.
Yeah, so the idea that calypsowas able to be flexible enough
to borrow from all of thesegenres is also ignoring that we
were the mother of all of themtoo with you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Oh, it's even when they talk about the original
reggae strum that, yeah, ofcourse, of course, just
basically, and again.
So when we do local versions ofthat's where I feel it is all
Calypso, it's all Kaisa.
But in the initial stages, whenyou form the band, you'll make
a choice not to do Soko orCalypso, or it was just the

(01:20:46):
expression here, that it's a, wehad no resonance with it, we
had no connection to it, right?

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
And a lot of it was religiously rooted A misdevil
thing, of course you end.
It was religiously rooted amisdevil thing, of course you're
not taking coke.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
Yeah, yeah, you forget, I'll wait, okay, so
let's stay away from it.
So what?
Was the choice now, when you,when you would have gone with,
with, so what was it when wewent with Soca?
Yeah, when you decided it was adeliberate choice.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Yes, it was a deliberate choice.
We had finished most, I wouldsay 95% of Born in Darkness
album and Muhammad said, nowthat we have this music out of
us, what we think about trying aSoca song, and that's where

(01:21:35):
when I Am came from.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Yeah, so you went into that trying to make a Soca,
and that's where, where I amcame from.
Yeah, so you're, you're, you'rewent into that trying to make a
soca, because when I listen toit I always say what?
Yeah, this, all of it is kaizoto me, but this one in
particular, song.
So it was deliberate.
Yes, it was, it was deliberatethat.
So that's our official firstyeah, and that is soca song.
That is not.
Not like.

(01:21:56):
When I first met Muhammad, hetold me we only did this thing
for 4 or 5 years and I was likewhat it?

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
feels like a long, long time.
This is the first, first, first, first, first, first indication
.
I guess we were frightened byit.
We had a song called strictlybusiness right the strum for
that is blues.
Right, we had a song calledStrictly Business, right the
strum for that is blues.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Right, so we will.
We had no band room and thingback in the day.
Right, you didn't practice athome Home, no, my personal
practice space was home.
You know where we band room wasWoodford Square.
We used to go in the square andpractice and the promenade
personal practice.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Space was home, right .
You know where we band room waswoodford square.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
We used to go in the square and practice and and the
promenade, like it was knownthat we just day holy building
our vibes.
And one day we were there.
It was close to christmas timeand the vendors were being run
from um charlotte street.
The police was locking uppeople, kicking over tables,
apples and thing, and muhammadstarted writing strictly

(01:23:01):
business right there, because itit unfolding in life.
I I know saying that and Idon't blow my own mind.
If that is the way this songwas written, we should have done
with scallop.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
So well, it's true, looking at this society.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Wow, look at that.
So we watching this thing playout and muhammad singing it and
I struggling to keep up withwhere he is melodically because
my guitar skills now learningtoo so when you hear, are you
trying to find it no, but all I,all I, but I have a wider blues

(01:23:37):
vocabulary, so singing thatthat's blues, the way it is
played, right.
But that was the first songthat we entered in Jack Young
Kings with Right Back in the dayand every night Muhammad
performed that.
He had about four encoresEncore.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Yeah, encore, people would be refreshing in this
space.
You know the sound wasdifferent.
You all managed to find a wayto make, even though you're
doing soca now, some of the bestsoca for the years, coming from
all you know.
Yeah, thanks, man, and onlyfind a way not to.
It is still very unique interms of the sound of it.
So I was talking to my motherlike feeling love and what it

(01:24:19):
was doing on the road.
As I'm asking, only, fellas,grow up in the church and the
mosque and take on this new road.
Like me, I just get a long timeon these streets so when I see
what that song do the morning.
Yeah, I was like I was tellinghim like kind of all the before
the trucks move off, almostevery truck in in Yuma that
morning starts with that.
You know, you're still, you'restill naked in a sense, when you

(01:24:40):
no reach there in the morninguntil everybody reach and you
take a drink.
It's still shame, it's stillshame it's still shame your
grandmother tell you what sheboy listen.
But that song just groovepeople into the day and then and
then was one of them that holdyou in the middle of the day
when you're tired and eating.
That mask come again now.
This is real, real special.
But I had to ask you.
I saved this so to ask youabout you know, because

(01:25:01):
somewhere along your musicaljourney the pinnacle called you
and he said he wants to do acollaboration.
I hear you talking about thatand had some questions around it
because that song was represent, right, yes, so what was the
call like?
At that point in time you'regetting a call from marshall to
say we're gonna do a collab.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
Yeah, so we will.
Um, we were part of aintervention program, an art
intervention program with somehand-picked kids from success,
love, until, and the name of the.
The program was called artconnect and there were several
artists working with a bunch ofkids, um, just to explore

(01:25:40):
whether through art, they couldfind themselves.
Brian mcshine was a visualartist working with them,
freetown collective was workingalong with them and marshall was
working along with them.
And, um, it was through thatprogram marshall reached out and
he said he's working on theGoing for Gold album and he has

(01:26:01):
a song that he thinks we couldadd a nice vibe to.
I'm sure that he didn't reallyknow what we just do, because
his legit words was yeah, I see,all you could do, a kind of
tribe called quest, kind of Isee what are you saying?
My guy Is he, look, tribecalled quest?

(01:26:23):
Yeah, but that's what he wanted.
Right, when he sent the originalversion of Represent, I
wouldn't say we were intimidated.
But all of those inhibitionsabout that space, right, and why

(01:26:45):
?
Religiously, we felt as thoughwe were designing our path for
ourselves and for our music.
That didn't represent what wethought he stood for, cause we
don't know him, all we know ishis public persona and the
myriad of stories, very colorfulstories, that we hear about him
.
So when that call came,musically, we were up to the

(01:27:09):
challenge.
We're just not sure if makingthis decision is what we want to
do spiritually, and making thisdecision with him.
So, in all fairness, we askedour audience, we said, hey,
before we, we, we do anythingcreatively, we would like to
talk to a man to man, right, andwe say he's fine with that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
When we, when he showed up, when he showed up, we
lambay senpai because, remember, we still very spoken word.
Oh hell, I guess you know norevolution revolutionaries.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
And we have been at that point and I wouldn't say
openly because I mean it had noinstagram and facebook was now
now taken off.
But people who knew us knewthat we were critics of him and
what we felt he stood for.
So it's only good manners tosay what you were saying behind
somebody back to their face.
So when we had thisconversation with him, he sat

(01:28:11):
silently, didn't say a word, andwhen we were done, he said what
if I said all them things yousay about me?
It's true.
What is the next move?

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
so no resistance no, say what.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
If all of those things you're accusing me of are
true you on this side, I onthis side where's he move?
Because I here to be better.
And if that was a play, that isthe greatest play in life,
because now he turn thatmorality back on us.

(01:28:50):
If you're saying you stand forso many principles, you stand
for so much morality, when theopportunity to actually do the
work come before you, what?

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
will you do, but what was the core issue with?
The principle stands againsthim and his stories.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
That, for the height of his career and the giant that
he is, he seemed to be purely amascot of enjoyment, and we
think our people needed more Isee, I see and I know, I know
this might rile people up, right, but I see it differently and

(01:29:32):
the reason why I felt justifiedin feeling that way right,
because I really look up to himin terms of what he is Right.
I had some questions about whohe is at that time, but what he

(01:29:53):
was was never in any question.
As in the same way people talkabout.
As.
In the same way people talkabout Michael Jackson, and the
same way people talk aboutPrince, and the same way people
talk about Bob Marley.
On this rock that is calledplanet Earth, floating through
space, there isn't a biggersoaker star than Marshall

(01:30:13):
Montano on planet Earth.
A bigger soaker star thanMarshall.
Montano on planet Earth.
So if he is at the pinnacle ofthis thing that we've created
and I think that you're justhere to have a good time then me
, who's still in my veryrevolutionary thought I'm still
in secondary school fight thepower, Karl Marx.

(01:30:35):
Capitalism is bad.
I have some things to reconcilein myself, gotcha, you know,
especially if we are saying thatour music is a vehicle to make
the situation better oh, it'syou, so at some point you decide
you're gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
What was the conversation like?
We decided.

Speaker 2 (01:30:54):
Both muhammad and I decided that we will take three
days to pray on fast okay, andwe did so you take it as deeply
spiritual?

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah deeply, deeply, deeply
spiritual.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
And after we took our time to to to pray on fast, I
came back and I said, muhammad,I think this is an opportunity
to say what we need to say insong.
And muhammad said I wasthinking the same thing.
Here's what I have, okay.
So in muhammad's praying andfasting, something came to him,

(01:31:25):
and that was the first part.
I have love for the whole wideworld, with you at the center.
You are the master, keith.
Love is by my side, and whocould deny me?
I keep climbing higher, higherand higher.
That song was in response tomarshall throwing the
conversation back at us, as inif we sing, we stand for love,

(01:31:46):
and a man is saying I'm here tochallenge that notion or you
love everybody or you loveeverything.
Look at me, a sinner I want todo good could use some love.
You could use some love too.
I could use some love too, andthis is for the people.
Them don't need some love too.
You going to turn this down?

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
Gotcha, so this is how you're going with it.
We're going with it, but you inparticular.
Your verse was a statement aswell.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
yes, yeah, my verses were so.
The first verse was me sayingit on wax.
Was me talking directly toMarshall, my people, do you
listen?
Tell me, do you hear, marshall,what is your position for the

(01:32:31):
people?
Do you care?
I ask him questions.
When you tell me that yourepresent, I don't know.
I really want to see someevidence, because with me and my
brethren in Freetown this isevident.
So here's your opportunity.
Bring it from your soul.
And then all of a sudden we hugup and say, oh, hot fries, they
tell me I had to clean some hotfries.

(01:32:52):
I see hot fries.
And then the second verse is mereconciling to the people who
would now be looking at us assellouts.
Of course we coming on a mission, so you expected that, of
course, marshall is the mostpolarizing character that we
have in Trinidad and Tobagoafter Jack One and Wade Mark.
So the second verse is we comein on a mission, miami brejan,

(01:33:20):
and we don't really care, you'llhave problems with it.
One love in distribution and wehave some more to share.
And we live like this hereevery day.
We do it in love and we don'tdelay Love.
Like this, we must relay likewe had a shirt and we, heart and
soul, hug up again.
Oh, hot fries, I'm not busy, Iain't there.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
So he know you're singing about him.
He care you, just you doingwhat you're doing, I doing what
I doing.
It end up being a staple.
Yeah, going only have plentyforever.
Music, which I think a lot ofartists or bands might use of
more envy musicians.
People might envy what you'lldo in the soccer space, in a, in
what is a relatively shortspace of time, doing it for a

(01:34:05):
long time, but that only on aphenomenal run where it comes to
music and and again going backto me hearing the albums and and
constantly thinking, once in atraining, I feel it's Kaizo.
So I want to go over one of myfavorite verses in Kaizo when
it's saying oh, you paid, boy.

(01:34:27):
You say You're still stuntingwith your friends in your
imaginary pens.
And no Rolex or no Brebrightlings.
Well, he relax any brightlingsand he bends.
It's coming.
I just want to put out there sothey they present when you're
singing that it might not bepresent there, yeah.
Or watching the instagram andwhat you know, it's coming, it's

(01:34:48):
coming, yeah so that way.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
Sometimes I wonder if I had everything, could I lose
it all and still feel like aking?
Because it's so easy to wantwhat you don't have as soon as
you can't have it.
I wanted to really use the fword.
But when you don't have, yousay damn.
This life is hard, but I'mstill stunting with my friends

(01:35:12):
and my imaginary bands.
No rolex and no bright lenscould make me feel like a prince
.
I'm okay, I'm okay.
Yeah, still waiting on mypayday.
I'm okay, I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
That stuff don't make me anyway and you know, I guess
it coming from a space, then alight man, just the whole
production of it.
Like you see, a lot of artistsor groups do some acoustic
version, always a lot of voicesmaking up the music and and so
on, deliberate in terms of howy'all approach that song that
was real failure.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
What do you mean?
That song, that song beat, we,beat, we, beat, we, beat we.
And what we had, uh, theproduction, what just wasn't
working.
But what we would do is wewould have a skeleton production
and at least lay down the guidevocals, at least get the vocal
idea down.
And so we had the vocal ideaand the only thing that was

(01:36:03):
feeling authentic was the bridge.
See, you don't know what I'vebeen going through and I
remember studying it, studyingit, studying it because um mu,
because Muhammad had chosen leadwriting, sheriff, lead
production, and my role was A&Rof the album.
So I will sit with the demosand figure out the musical

(01:36:27):
direction, right, and that onebeat me, beat me, beat me, beat
me.
And I came and I said, allright, let's start with the
bridge and then let's dobarbershop.
Let's do barbershop acapella.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
Yes, because that's where I come from seven the
adventists singing in church.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
Yeah, that's, that's where I come from the nano
instruments.
When I started singing, it wasjust me, and, and and five of my
cousins yeah, my girl clap orsnap.
And he said yeah no, they'resnap finger right.
So that's why I start off withthe bass and that's church.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
That must be why it resonates so much.
We'll try to avoid church somuch that they come back to
haunt me in the end.
One of my favorite songs fromall year.

Speaker 2 (01:37:11):
One song, one sitting here.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
One sitting here yeah , care breaks right, but uh, the
response to that.
But you'll still perform it,because when I'm in tight spaces
, of course people respond to it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Of course, anytime we're in a room of artists or
people who the the context ofpeople being in that room is
they're going to make someballsy decisions, that song does
resonate yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
I started playing for my wife every now and again
when she said when this thingstarts to make money all day,
you're talking to people.
I'm thinking when this thing Isay listen to this song.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
It relaxes and it bends.

Speaker 1 (01:37:44):
it's coming Of course I'll be okay, so I had to now.
Yeah, one of the morecontroversial things you do, or
the things that I see plentypeople talking about, is that
mount rushmore.
Yes, I had an interestingdiscussion with kenny about it,
because he spoke about mountrushmore not from the standpoint

(01:38:04):
of artists, but he said thesound of soaker had a good on to
people like leston, paul orpelham or you know the people
who were producers behind it,which I heard you making a lot
of great points on.
When you first do your modrushmore.
I say what I say some, let mehear who's your mod rushmore
again, nello yeah, I forget, butyeah, I don't remember them all

(01:38:24):
, but I know nello was there,yeah, rose was there.
Marshall would have been there,yeah, and allison hines, and
allison hines, yeah.
So when I listen to it I saysomething ain't right here.
I need to hear where's thebreakdown.
The the first one I startedwith was Nelson, and I like to
Let me start with Alison Hines.
You started with Alison.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
No, let me start by discussing Alison Hines.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
Tell me why?

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
Because somebody wasted on my whole list because
of Alison Hines, right One,alison Hines is there because we
can't be selfish about thestorytelling about how Soka has
developed and evolved to whereit is now.
Fair, fair, all right.
So in looking back at where weare now, we have to give credit

(01:39:09):
to the Bajan invasion.
Right, right, the Bajaninvasion introduced a kind of
sound and lightness to theenjoyment of Soka because, left
up to Chinese we go gladiatorsport, the thing you know well,
especially when only the fittestwill survive if it left up to

(01:39:34):
Chinese chinese to decide whatsoka is, of course, so that laid
back sway, groovy life is allright to me.
when we were coming up, was, was, was really really, um, not
started by, but characterized bywhat the Bajan invasion was

(01:39:59):
doing consistently.
Yeah, it was definitely a shiftRight.
And if you understand howmale-dominated music on a whole
is at soca on a whole, is AlisonHines, being the queen of that
moment, need recognition I withyou, but again, your reasoning

(01:40:21):
it's hard to argue with.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
I suppose anybody you come up with with four will
have a different four.
I have a completely differentfour too, and when I heard your
reasoning on that I first wentback to like carl and carol
jacobs because they in a waythat that what we know today as
groovy soka them was taking achance back then.
So so, so I don't even know if,if you're strict about what you

(01:40:44):
call a genre and all them kindof thing, some of the early
music that they had, so Iwouldn't put them there.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
Yeah, and so much them is free town.
That's why I have so much morerespect for uncle carl now,
because, digging into carl andcarol jacobs, in fact our whole
charlie's roots, yeah, andchandelier movement, bro, yeah,
we're not the first, no, so I Inow take this opportunity
anytime people talk aboutfreetown music, we come under a

(01:41:12):
family tree, right.
Charlie's's Roots, chandelierFireflight yeah, that's what
we're talking about, butstraight soaker.
You could not go to a fet inthe 90s.
People might remember that early2000s and not hear Faloma ding,

(01:41:33):
ding, ding.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
We're mumbling the rest of the words because we
don't know, but ding, ding, yeah, yeah, yeah, we mumbling the
rest of the words because wedon't know, but we didn't care.
Yeah, and I like the idea thatthe face on the mud Rushmore
represents several people,because Edwin Yewood was right
at 2-2-2 with her.
Yes, he has some classics.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
No, no, I really wanted to put he, you know, but
I had to divers.
They think all right, cool isthat the I kind of thing all
right, all right, I can livewith that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
Yeah, man who you're going to next nello let me go,
let me go nello oh, you want togo nello last nello by the most
controversial level, becausenello is who you say replaced.
Let me go to marshall.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
So, all right, the reason why I have marshall there
is again is it fair to talkabout hip-hop in its entirety
without talking about Jay-Z?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, for some people, dependingon where they are, without
talking about Eminem.
Even if it's a controversialpoint, they had to be mentioned

(01:42:34):
just because of the vastcontribution that they've made
to it and how their presence hasnot left the thing the same.
Of course, if you take marshallmontano out, right, and all of
the things that are connected tohim, all of his tentacles, yeah

(01:42:57):
, you remove you're going tohave a black hole.
Yeah, so just from um, uh, uh,uh, a size perspective.
He's occupying so much space interms of influence, in terms of

(01:43:18):
innovation, in terms of hits,in terms of how he would, even,
how he would have sharpened thecompetition all the competitions
, all the.
I wasn't actually talking aboutthe event, but the people.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
Competitiveness, his peers steel sharpens steel, even
the actually talking about theevent.
Oh the competitiveness, hispeers Steel sharpens steel, even
the intro.

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
Would we be talking about the amount of work that
Shellshock would have done?

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
if it wasn't for Marshall.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
Yes, it would.
Marshall didn't put Shellshockon, but we know Shellshock
because he was allowed to bemore prolific in that chapter of
his life.
So just for the amount ofpeople that jay-z signed and the
amount of collaborations thatjay-z has done, the amount of

(01:44:07):
albums I have collaborations onthat albums, we can't talk about
hip-hop without jay-z, eventhough I personally could do
without his music.
Yeah I can't not talk about him.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
Same thing with marshall okay, fair, fair, I
might have to leave him off.
Too Hard to do.
Hard to do if I'm on Drushmore.
If I had to leave Marshall offon Mount Drushmore, I would put
him as Statue of Liberty.
He just you know or somethinghe needs his own monument in a
sense I didn't remember who thatwas.
Are you sure you didn't have?

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
Rose.
No, I didn't have Rose.

Speaker 1 (01:44:34):
Or something else you were talking about, rose with
regard to yeah, but let me go toShorty, because your argument
of where Shorty was concerned isabout the starting of a genre,
pan.
People have the same thing withwho invented Pan, and I think
what you're trying to say at itsessence is reducing it to one
person or one face.
Is unfortunate to say that hecreated it.
Yes yes.

Speaker 2 (01:44:54):
So my reason for leaving him off is because for
most people's lists that wouldbe a foregone conclusion and
that does not advance theconversation.
So, purely for the sake ofadvancing the question, for
other narratives to come to thefront, for questions to be
allowed to be asked here is aperspective that has been put

(01:45:19):
out there but not been shown anylight.
So, on record, lord Nelson hasexpressed that he feels left out
of that conversation.
Oh, he has.
Yeah, I didn't know that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that he feelsleft out of that conversation
because of what he has broughtto this, to, to, to the table

(01:45:41):
right, and the way his, hiscontribution is summarized is
outside of what was happeninghere with the arrangers.
Right, we will talk about pelham, we'll talk about lesson.
We'll talk about about lessthan we'll talk about ed watson.
We'll talk about clive bradley,but outside of them guys.
He always knew calypso, he wasalways steeped in calypso, but

(01:46:05):
he served in the us army andwhen he was out there trying to
be an entertainer in the army aswell, he was realizing what
disco was doing.
And it's the same thing.
Um is the same thing, um, uh,beaver would say that the
introduction, the reason for theneed to evolve was seeing that

(01:46:31):
calypso was hard to dance to.
White people couldn't dance toit because it was in cut time
right and unless your foot realagile and you're accustomed to
fox, strut and waltz and thing,yeah, right so that bubbly
movement now that we nowintroduce it for on the floor
and thing is because we see whatdanceable music doing and he

(01:47:00):
was able to see how disco couldhave been a valuable addition to
Calypso to give it that bounce.
He ain't get no influence fromnobody else to come up with that
in his head, right, and to knowthat he is the arranger for the
bass line on my lover yeah sothem stories.

(01:47:24):
Right, so them stories.
So the reason why I have himthere is to introduce a new
sample into the experiment sothat you could now pull up
endless vibrations by shorty.
Look the time span, the timedifference in between that and
we Like it.
Endless Vibrations album and weLike it.
You could say, alright, thisone came before, but the kind of

(01:47:46):
innovation on we Like it as analbum from top to bottom in
terms of danceability, why wouldyou leave that all?

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
Well, I think he said , like you know, the song
Foreigner, which to me is apowerful song.
I don't know why he vent he venta lot in that song, right, of
course, listen, I always listento that song and I say, but like
hey, any real pain in thisrecording For him to talk about
that really coming out of thefact that he was attempting to
enter the Monarch, enter thecompetition, and they tell him

(01:48:16):
he's a foreigner, which is crazyto me in hindsight, you know,
when you look back at some ofthese things.
But I like that you're makingthe point and the distinction
that these things will happenindependent of one another,
which is the truth aboutinnovation, no matter what field
it's in.
When you come up with an ideaor something brand new, so much
energy is had to be out therefor you to even come up with
that, that brand new.
So much energy is how to be outthere for you to even come up

(01:48:37):
with that, that somebody elsefeeling that same energy
somewhere else in the world too.
So I liked.
I like that you included nelsonand I don't argue nothing
against nelson ever, because tome he's one of the easily one of
the greatest one.
But the same thing withmarshall marshall's five decades
doing this thing now, yeah, ata high level since he starts.
You know people, people sayingthat when they see marshall in
1986 singing too young to circle, they know he's a star.

(01:48:57):
Like you say with michaeljackson and nelson is how much
decades you know this man's?

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
still zipping down jumping up to today yeah, so so
it's hard but the attempt wasnever to bring any erasure I
understood to what mr garfieldblackman brought of course, I
think what you were doing isadding.

Speaker 1 (01:49:15):
I was was adding.

Speaker 2 (01:49:17):
So you choose that name, this is the name I would
pick.
Yeah, it's like when we do infantasy football you have your
player.
That's right.
Right, and I say as aTobagonian Nelo is my player.

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
Yeah, why not?
Why not?
And that's why I like thediscussion, because even in the
discussion, and just to bring itfull circle, it's a part of the
educator, because you'rebringing something to the table
that maybe most people would not, even my youth.
I was 20 years old.
We're just here.
Well, shorty, create Kaiso,calypso, ahsoka.
So he had to be there and yousay he can't name too much,

(01:49:50):
which is unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (01:49:52):
Yeah, yeah, and so it .
So that was to reveal that, inorder for us to be better trend
big onions, we have to be ableto stand by what we know, if
you're saying shorty is yoursall right?

Speaker 1 (01:50:08):
no, why?
I would say a hundred percent.
But blue, super blue, was oneon your list as well.

Speaker 2 (01:50:14):
Why Having?

Speaker 1 (01:50:28):
super blue on the list allows the connection
between Soka, Zest and Steam tobe drawn.

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
So there is the narrative that super blue is the
forefather of power.
Soka, right, all right, thatcall and response.
That live way.
Put your hand in Power.
Soaker, right, all right, thatcall and response.
That live way.
Put your hand in the air.
Are you ready to go?
No, when you listen to SuperBlue's performances right, and
there are quite a few from thattime when he's doing the crowd

(01:50:54):
interactions on the band break Ipromise you, there's nothing
different between that and what,um, what young brother came up
doing?
All right, that's banter.
That that space for banter overthe break.
Yeah, that's blue boy.
So if now suka has innovatedand sophisticated itself so that

(01:51:19):
it could now spit out a ladylapper, spit out a young brother
?
Yeah, spit out papi, he's thefather.
That is the same as you.
So I'm seeing, I'm seeingwhat's coming next and drawing
the linkage back to suka.
I see you and who would havebeen responsible for that
innovation?

Speaker 1 (01:51:38):
Of course, of course we're probably not time, but one
of the things I want to getinto it with, as you say, that
is the distinction of it.
But maybe we talk about it alittle bit, because the
distinction I hear you say isunfortunate.
Based on a melody record youwere referencing that we said
Calypso, then Soka, then PowerSoka, then groovy soca, and we

(01:51:59):
kept doing that over the years.
I would love to see.
Just personally, I just find weneed to get back to calling all
of it kaiso or calypso, evenwhen y'all were in a movement
that was called new calypso atthe time and when I hear it I
was like why?
Why is it new calypso?
It felt like, if you're makingsomething else, old calypso when
I thinking that, what?
When I listen to some of yoursongs and some of what brigo was
doing, it's so similar in termsof the, the energy and the vibe

(01:52:24):
of the music.
Nello too, because a lot ofthese songs yeah, a strict genre
man would have seen nelsonwasn't singing, yeah you know
plenty.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
It was funk, plenty of disco, that's right reggae
but to me is all okay, kai.

Speaker 1 (01:52:36):
So Superblue I think I would probably have on our
list for some of the samereasons.
He really changed it.
But the one that I do hearpeople saying a lot and I look
at Amon Drashmo as if we werealready 2,000 years old as a
genre.
Right, I want to look back atAmon Drashmo and I do think he
could leave Bungie off becauseof what he does with the music.

(01:52:57):
He's changing and we see, we'regoing to see it live.
You know, we could look back atShorty and them and say and
Nelson, and say how theyrevolutionized it.
Or even Rose, who sing a lotabout women and making sure that
she's stamp it for women comingafter her.
That is some big risks he'staking with music.
He's sticking to what hebelieves in in terms of where he

(01:53:17):
feel music should be, both interms of the tempo, the message,
all them different types of.
Because bungee has a I mean youall say those things about ram,
though you know what bungee hassome very, very principled ways
of putting music out that'sright you might hear him talk
about certain things or saycertain things, or and I feel
like if I I keep looking forpeople to say, okay, bungie,
should be part of that mouthrush, what do you feel about him

(01:53:38):
being up there?

Speaker 2 (01:53:40):
Absolutely.
One of the things that makesBungie distinct in his presence
is that he don't need none ofthis.
Could give he a bottle and aspoon and he'll get a full song.
He'll get a full song.
You'll give him a two stick anda bucket and you'll get a full

(01:54:01):
show.
His artistry is close to thatraw primordial energy that is
Calypso that in the most direcircumstances you'll get an
entire acapella from bungee for10 minutes and not feel any less

(01:54:23):
entertained.

Speaker 1 (01:54:24):
yeah, and heavily rooted in calypso.
Because to me, you know, yeah,yeah and again, just that
parallel for me is importantbecause when I hear you know you
hear so many times over theyears some of our greatest icons
talk a lot about breaking outinto the international market or
going global with the music.
It's not something I've everheard Bungie discuss.

(01:54:47):
I've never heard y'all discussthat as a band either, but when
you say y'all start off inEngland, you know, I believe
that if we stay true to who weare, both in terms of the
culture and the music and ourown beliefs whether they come
from the church, they come fromthe mosque, they come from
wherever you grew up in thecommunity or whatever I feel if
we stick to our own beliefs andjust tell our own stories the

(01:55:07):
world, they don't have a choice.

Speaker 2 (01:55:09):
They will come to us.
We don't have to go to them.

Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
And that's what I would have seen in Jamaica a lot
Men just telling their ownstory.
Men talk mobile at Manic Block.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
As you all would have done in Tonga.

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
And that is who Bungee has always been.
For me, he has been that windowto the ground.
Yeah, that don't care about howmany all-inclusive tickets sell
.
I would tell your buddy, go onSuperman outside.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
Of course that's his story.
That's his story.
So again, just drawing thatparallel to you all and to you
in terms of what you're doing inthe music space Critical.
Critical because you're pushingit, you're staying principled
in what you're doing and justjust as with the tight spaces or
any other event, you do theaudience continuing to find you

(01:56:02):
no matter where you are.
It starts off, so audience fine.

Speaker 2 (01:56:03):
Yeah, here I hear your story about good swimming
guy noises.
Yeah, I was like what?
Yeah, like none.
None of our big um successescame from strategic moves.
Yeah, it has always been umreal spontaneous creation that
felt good in the belly gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:56:22):
Gotcha well, conrad, ready to pull you out.
But last question are youcontinuing doing?
You're continuing in the vein.
You're going in to make musicfor the, for the festival for
now, yes, for now, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:56:36):
And and and and wider music as well.
We have an album that's on theway um.
Our release date isemancipation day, august 1st,
and the sound of it again isgoing to be reminiscent of born
in darkness.
Not genre wise, but theadventure of it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:55):
I understand, I understand.
So we up now is album or song.
I see you promoting that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:59):
A song that is from the album.
It's one of the singles fromthe album featuring College Boy
Jesse and Pretty, and I was justsaying to them, guys on the
video shoot, that the community,this feel, the community with
them, the fellowship to them,this feels so, so good and to
imagine that this is how some ofthe calypsonians might have
been back in the day I thinkthat's exactly what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:57:21):
You know, I like I have a tendency to like to
reminisce a lot, all of us.
You, as a historian, you do anysame thing, yeah, but you know,
sometimes you don't realizethat we create.
You know people go talk aboutyeah in some years to come.

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
You're definitely doing it and the one thing I
like about this era that theprevious era was the previous
era, but so much of what wasrecorded, archived and
remembered was at the height ofwar.
We remember what happened in thetent in the competition where

(01:57:55):
men were not permitted to befriends, but, as what the
gazette reported on, that iswhat the competition reported us
who was the winner, who didn'tplace?
And we didn't have instagramback then or any lifetime
articles or editorials to reallylet us know who was friends and
who was liming together.

(01:58:15):
You had to rely on personalstories like kenny rl stories
right but now we uh can showthat, outside of of carnival and
who vying for airplay likethese, these fellas, is really
friends that is, that is lyingtogether.
Yeah, that's beautiful to seethis come together, even when
they're not making music, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:35):
The documentary.
That's what affordable importshelp them with.
You see, the documenting ishaving it and I tell you yeah,
the greatest set in the wholething, anybody who I see a big
of some storytellers KG, tamikaCostello.
I'm so happy that they're doingwhat they're doing.
Yes yes but nobody looking asgood.
Serious boy, what all theminstruments behind you playing
that saxophone and all themthings man all right.

Speaker 2 (01:58:56):
Yeah, that's good time to the whole next
conversation, yeah yeah, yeah, I, I, I, I love to come again um
to talk about some more thingsmusic first person who come here
.
That kyle know really and okay,okay, let me, let me, let me
use this, let me use this as a,as a plug.
Right, big up, kyle, kyle fromtobago, and one of the things

(01:59:18):
that I really want to pursue is,um, to put some music into this
space that tells a story abouttobago.
Well, we have a segue into thenext episode.

Speaker 1 (01:59:29):
The reality of tobago needs some unpacking all right,
good, let me do that now yeahbecause one of my questions, I'm
gonna say, is to ask you aboutcessation.
I want to hear your thoughts onthat, but we're going to leave
it there until it comes back.

Speaker 2 (01:59:40):
There's a whole episode.
There's a whole episode.

Speaker 1 (01:59:42):
I really want to hear how you feel about it and
what's your thoughts, as are weboy.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
Don't worry, thanks a million brother.

Speaker 1 (01:59:58):
This was great, this was really.
This was wonderful.
Thanks a million.

(02:00:30):
Yeah, man Outro Music.

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Episode 236 | Lou Lyons

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 236 | Lou Lyons