Episode 239 | Tyler Giselle Phillip - Corie Sheppard Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
tiger.
How are you, ma'am?
I'm good this pre-conversation.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We have a lot in common.
I have to say that usually Ihave notes to start off.
You're the first guest thatcome with notes too.
I'm very nervous.
Tiger has, and she turns to theblank page just before we start
to her.
So I'm very, very nervous.
But, tiger, we had anopportunity when we first spoke
to come to your production yeahand I kind of want to start
there okay, no problem, poisonyeah let me let me, before I

(00:27):
talk about my experience there.
What was the genesis of it, howyou came up with the idea, what.
What started?

Speaker 1 (00:33):
what started poison.
So last year, 2024, I did awriting workshop with
award-winning playwright ericbarry.
I've known eric for a very longtime and I feel like, oh,
there's the opportunity for Ericto kind of show off himself.
And so my friend Rena Christianand I pressure him to do a
writing workshop.

(00:53):
Eric, you have to do a workshop, and he did, and it was five of
us and we went through eightsessions with him over a period
of like three or four months,and one of the homework
exercises initially was to writea piece of prose, a page and a
half, write a story.
It took me I wrote it the daybefore, the day before it was

(01:17):
due, because I'm a horriblestudent I submitted it, that's
the best student.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
More time is off than the day before it due.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, because it's crunch now, so your heart is
getting tired, Of course.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Of course that's when he juices his flow.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
I hate that about myself.
And so I presented it in classand he was like, okay, great, we
presented his other classmates,da, da, da, okay.
And at the end of the sessionhe said, okay, home, hopefully,
look for the next day, write ascript based on your story.
And I said, oh god, eric.

(01:50):
So I did, I went away and I Iwrote this piece, which was
actually based on a piece ofmusic that I featured in the, in
the prose, which is um, dexterdapps breaking news, because I
absolutely Dexter Dapp'sBreaking News, because I
absolutely love that song, sogreat.
But I envision that this younglady was in a vehicle and she

(02:10):
heard the chorus, the chorus ofthat song which goes Stop fight
with him, make him fight for youlike.
Tyson, you're too nice for him.
The boil of him belly justpoison him.
That's the lyric, and in theback the girls who sing the
chorus go poison him yeah.
So sweet, huh, so sweet, and Ilove it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
But the truth Wait.
Let me be clear you like thepoisoning part or do you like
the harmonizing?
I like the song.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
I like the lyrics.
I like the theme that we'regoing with yes, let's go but I
also really like that they tookthis, this, really this song.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's so violent and made it so sweet I'll tell you I
didn't know what the song wasabout till I came by you.
Yeah, you know it's kind ofsinging along with it and
breaking news.
I'm barely paying attention toit the news.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
the reporters are there because he gone.
So I nailed the piece poisonbased on that piece of music, um
.
But then it evolved into thisthe poisonous relationship
between the two characters, akiaand d, the poisonous
environment that they've been apart of, of this society that is
chernobyl and tobago, and so toexplore that through these
characters was where I was at socharacter-led.

(03:23):
But it's also specificallyabout this event of wanting to
kill this man who has harmedAkia.
What does that look like?
What is justice for her?
What does it look like for Dee,who is a creature of the
underworld, as I described himinitially?
Why would we take this step todo this thing?

(03:44):
And in sitting with thesecharacters and working it
through, I'm being like, oh gosh, just think during the next two
weeks for Eric.
I'm like what are myexperiences with situations like
this, with men like this, withmy own self and my own stories?
And what would I have liked tohave happened when I was in a

(04:07):
situation where I felt like, nah, just, I need some justice here
, I need some, some vindicationfor having experienced abuse.
And so poison was born.
And then we read it after um,after the course was finished,
eric gave beautiful notes.
He gave great feedback and soit's very different from what it

(04:32):
was initially.
Gotcha Presented it.
I had Taffa read for Akia and Ihad one of our students because
she and I have taught for over10 years together.
One of our students read therule of D.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
So when you're presenting it.
So you had to do a story, thenyou had to make it into a script
.
Yes.
In the presentation just forthat workshop.
You have to act it out or dothe actual reading.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
So, yes, oh, I see Eric's thing was we need to hear
the work.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I see.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
So, as writers, it's not just you write a script,
okay, cool, it's done.
No, now we need to hear ourwork.
So, between myself and eric andreena, we gathered up some
actors who we know from in thisway, something like right, come
and read our work.
And so there were four scriptsand they were read, I see, and
out of it, um, I was like, okay,well, I heard it yeah I'm like
okay I'm looking to go and putit back on the shelf and the

(05:30):
bully that is my friend, reenakushan.
I mean we take turns bullyingeach other.
Um, she's like so when you doit, boys, because it read to her
like a film right so she waslike so we have to make this in
our movie.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I was like really take a deep breath, sends in our
movie.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Let's get from this, let's do this.
I was like read it, take a deepbreath, send it to my friend
Gabby in New York.
She sent me some nice,beautiful notes.
I sent it to my friend Shaq.
He was like me.
Know, if I want to read this,you just send me thing and then
don't do it because I am achronic of my work.
Yeah, so for me to have writtenpoison last year and then

(06:05):
premiere poison this year, is abig deal for me yes, yes because
most of my stuff is on shelves,or external hard drives or any
people on them well, that tellsme we have plenty more to see,
so that's good yes, and havething to see, thing to read and
engage with um, so yes, so shewas like right, and then I have
the opportunity now with mycultural group to go to montreal

(06:29):
.
How I get any money way.
And she was like, well, youhave a place.
So that's his friend what wegonna do, use that as a
fundraiser.
And so I was like, all right,okaygrudgingly, I'll share my
work with you all.
And so, yeah, I decided, allright, cool, and Taffa had told

(06:49):
me she said, when you're doingthis play, I have to be in it.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
All right.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
All right, I was like all right cool.
The person who read for Deeinitially was too young.
Based on his storytelling, Iwas like well, man, going to get
a much tougher Right.
There must be an equal yoke inhappening.
Mm-hmm.
Who's the best male actor inTrinidad, oh my God.
And so Nikolai Salcido entersthe chat Right, and I reach out

(07:18):
to him before Carnival, becausehe's a masked man as well.
I say hi, nicolai, this is tykephillip, real nervous, uh.
Um, I reach out to him.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
he was like, yeah, sure, no problem so you had a
relationship before you justreach out?

Speaker 1 (07:32):
no no, I know the class since I'm 13 okay, got it
I know taffa since I'm 16.
Okay, um, taffa and I are bestfriends um nicolai and I, so I
know Nikolai's 11 years mysenior Um, but I, so we.
We would have met when I was 13and then worked together in my

(07:53):
early twenties, but this wouldbe my first time as his director
and producer, so it's a wholedifferent dynamic, I understand.
So now I have to come.
Nikolai, do you am I worthy,you know, message him.
And he was like yeah, I waslike afterolai, do you Am I
worthy, you know, message him.
And he was like yeah, I waslike after Carnival, let's meet.
And about two weeks afterCarnival I gave him the script
and he was like well, yeah, andthat's the thing we were talking

(08:13):
about earlier, because it's you.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, so you're getting plenty of that.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I do get a lot of that and I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It speaks volumes.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
I guess, so I guess it speaks volumes of me, my
personality, my work ethic.
He was like, yeah, when youwant to do it?
And I was like I'm thinkingabout maybe May, and he was like
, okay, cool, he asked me allthe details where we were using
da-da-da-da-da-da and he wasfrom jump, was like I'm on right
I'm coming.

(08:42):
He's like right.
So who playing opposite me?
And I was like taffa chia andhe was like oh, I've never
worked a taffa before, let's doit right so poison was born and
yeah, and now it's a new worldthe response was good.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
How you felt about the response to it?
Um well, first I met about theresponse in terms of it sold out
all the three nights the fridaynight was a little tricky, but
I realized not just me.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
for other producers in the space who produced work
in June of this year, friday wasa weird day for us all and I'm
wondering if it is.
People don't want to go to thetheater on a Friday.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
People tired from work?
Maybe, I suppose.
Maybe, yeah, I guess.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
And they just want to really fully enjoy going going
to the theater, of course.
Um.
So friday was kind of weirdy,um, but saturday people were
standing up.
Sunday people were standing up,yeah, um, which I was like okay,
I don't know if it's me or ifit's a combo of me taff on sound
, or if it's just them andpeople just want to see them
together for the first time, orbut I think it was a combo.
People's responses were reallynice.
A colleague said to me thisweek it was refreshing.

(09:49):
Somebody also said to me Ihaven't seen this kind of
theater in a long time, or I'venever witnessed this type of
theater.
My work is very well.
I consider it micro theaterBecause I have no intention of
going to a 400 seat theater.
No.
Like, Queen's Hall is not thespace for my world, serious it
really isn't I like to be inyour face, intimate.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Listen Dong in your throat.
Maybe a good time to talk aboutmy experience.
Yes, please, let me start bytalking about Taika and time,
right Starting with today.
I got walking here today, closeto time.
It's like how good has Conradbeen?
And I'm like, hi, it's likeyou're here on time.
Well, on time, and a reputationfor that too.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
And I saw your post a few days before that.
You have a production managerwhere eight o'clock is eight
o'clock.
You should want to start ateight.
So when I walk in the place,it's you know I went to the
wrong place.
Ah okay, my brain is workingfunny ways, you know.
So I pull up at a place onMurray Street what was the name?
There's a production space atthe bottom of Murray Street,

(10:54):
just before Arapeeta Avenue.
I think it's somewhere that RayCannell does some stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Black Box.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Completely.
Let me tell you about my mytheatre illiteracy.
Right, I hear play it's blackand black.
I just come to it immediately.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Oh, I love that for Wendell and Roger.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
I love it I sit them outside killing time.
I say, nice, I'll take a go.
Not killing time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
About five minutes before I gorunning bam, and I find like
nobody in opening gate.
I said, but how are you lockedup tight?
So yeah, and then I realized Ihad the wrong spot.
So when I see my coming there'shustle and outcoming from there
.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
And then they have to find a park.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I know, because it's.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Super Yanni Boulevard and it's Saturday.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, the park quite up there on Saturday nights,
yeah, saturday night, yeah, butagain, I don't even know what is
a dramatic reading.
So I come up in this space andnow the space tight, I was like
all right, I can't really hidehere, and you know, when you
come later and he's leave allhis seat right in front, yeah,
so I sit down.
And when you say intimate andup, close and personal, yeah, I

(11:53):
think it's something that peopleneed to experience themselves,
because that the theme of theplay, of course, because it's
domestic violence or well, it'srooted in domestic violence, but
then, as you say, some kind ofjustice, revenge, whatever you
want to put it as is already anintense topic and this nuance,
this is tricky and the fact thatyou say no in the middle of

(12:15):
this is moving.
I found it to be very, veryintense.
Like I cast it uncomfortable.
I was like what is going onhere?
At one point, nikolai signed upright next to me and I was like
this is a lot, so that'sdeliberate for you.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
That is deliberate.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
That's what you want.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
I want that.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
I want my audiences to feel like they are in the
living room with thesecharacters.
They feel uncomfortable to bewitnessing this thing.
Am I supposed to be here rightnow to be witnessing the thing?
Am I supposed to be here rightnow?
I feel like whoa, I need toleave, but I can't because my
legs not gonna cooperate or alsobecause I'm afraid to breathe

(12:53):
and the audience member told meI wasn't sure if to exhale
because I felt like we were soclose yeah that's the type of
work I love to produce, becauseit's we are very separate from
theater in that we go to a showto be entertained, we go to
escape.
There's no escape when itdelimits me.

(13:15):
You're coming to the theater tobe moved to make some changes
in your life to something, must.
It must evoke something in you,because there's there's all
different types of theatre.
There's gospel theatre, there'slovely people doing Shakespeare
for youth, for adults.
There's I use theatre, dong SolTu did Sundari same weekend as

(13:37):
me, so that's musical theatre of.
You know Roland Camboula doingSparrow, tent and One.
So there's work with that.
There's Richard and Penny andCecilia and I'm doing, you know,
comedy.
There's space for that.
There's also space for my work.
My audience is my audience.
I don't want a 500 seat theaterbecause you're going to lose

(14:00):
the nuance, as you said, of thestorytelling, you're going to
miss something because you're sofar removed from it.
You are an observer in the work, um, and your role and
responsibility here as anaudience member is to see it,
engage with it.
All right, okay, cool, now what?

(14:22):
Where do I go from here?
Now, what?
What is?
my responsibility now all right,okay, so when I did my work,
mansplain in 2019, it's just aplay about all men and men's
experiences.
As you know, experiencingmanhood in trinidad right it was
as intimate as this.
People call me out and say gail.
I talked to my father for threehours the day after your show

(14:44):
because I just wanted to know ifmy dad had experienced any of
these things Does does.
I do not want Does what youwant.
Does and I, I think, because mywork is also very spiritual and
very ancestrally based, like I,I don't need to make all the
love.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right, make all your love if you want to laugh you
could go somewhere.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, of course and experience that and engage with
those, those types of work.
But then you come and you'resitting and show like poison.
It's like I want you to, as anhonest woman, grapple with your
own morality when you leave fromhere and you sit down like
where's what?
I would have killed him, boy, Iwonder.
Would I have been on her sideor his side, like who?

(15:25):
Yeah, I wanted to think.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I like that.
I like that Because it left methat way.
I like the way you describedthe discomfort.
I was never comfortable in theseat, never, at no point in the
place, because, for those whohaven't seen it right, we're
talking about it now inhindsight, but it's a reveal.
Yes.
Right and the reveal at the end.
That was intense too.
That was intense because atfirst, when it started, I wasn't

(15:51):
even sure that I was looking ata brother and sister.
I feel like I'm looking at acouple, the way they were
talking at first yeah.
It started to show itself.
You, and there was one point Ifeel like the gun pointed at me.
I was like what's going on here?
What is this?
Taika Mirjana, execution, youknow?
So I think.
But I think that discomfort I'mstarting to understand it now

(16:13):
in terms of what you're, whatyou're going for, because it is
the topic itself, as I said, isone that we need to discuss more
as a country, maybe oh, yes,definitely, and I was having
this conversation when Newsdayinterviewed me of like, we only
experience these people for aparagraph and a half.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
We don't know their lives before and we sure don't
check in with them after thatparagraph and a half, of course,
if they even get that much.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, and for them to get a paragraph and a half is
going to be tragic.
Yeah, some people get asentence.
It's going to be tragic.
Yeah, you understand it's goingto be bad.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
And then so we don't engage with the people who live
in these neighborhoods.
And I'm saying the people wholive in these neighborhoods.
I live in these neighborhoods,sure.
So, beyond the headlines, whoare these characters?
These people have families,they have lives, they went to
school, they have a certainlevel of education.

(17:10):
But they're also moments of joythe little baby born.
They have a christening home.
You know a birthday party, oryou know the joy that comes with
grieving a lost one at a wake.
Those are those intimate,intricate moments that we don't
have access to because we areseparate from these people.

(17:33):
We don't know them and we don'tcare to know them.
But based on my life as being acreative person, since I'm
hiring this thing my whole life,I always ask why I have a
seeking spirit.
I want an.
All right, let me get on to the, to the meat.
So now I'm you know thatincident happened with a young

(17:55):
lady who went to um, this bar inin um what do you call it?
In baritaria here after work,and then young man called
outside and she went in the car.
I want to know why did he makethat choice?
Why did she make that choice?
I want to get to the crux ofthe thing, which is why, when

(18:17):
they put the headline producerstages play about psychology or
criminals, I was like, oh mygosh, what is this?
But, you know it really is, thatit really is because I want to
know, I'm so curious alwaysabout about the why and about
the circumstances that lead upto a choice.

(18:38):
Sure sure.
But we as a society deal withthings in isolation.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, it's something I talk about all the time, you
know.
Uh, I I feel like sometimes ourdefinition of victim is very,
very narrow oh yeah in thesesituations, you know, because I,
like you, I try to understandand I'm not.
I try not understand to justify, maybe even forgive.
I just don't understand.
I just want to know what.
I don't think people are onething, so the paragraph brings

(19:05):
it down to one thing.
It's like a criminal did X, y, z, or a victim was blah, blah,
blah, but it's like the lead upto it and it's a part of the
issue that I feel we have in oursociety.
If we don't discuss certainthings, it will just stay in the
dark and it will continue,perpetuate long after me and you
go on.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
And it's a cycle, as you say it after me and you're
gone.
And it's a cycle as you say,you know it.
Just it's going to keep going,and keep going, and keep going,
and then we're just going to belike, well, it's not my family,
it's not my responsibility,it'll be very hands off.
So now you have no choice but tosit and shift left and right
and hold your breath, Of coursebecause you're, but now you are,

(19:46):
you are sitting in Akia, inthis living room, and you are
witnessing the relationship thatthey have with each other, the
relationship they have with thecommunity, with the space that
they find themselves being borninto.
You have to watch.
I mean, you can leave.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
I'm not saying I can't stand up kind of by the
door, you can't leave.
You can't leave because thenwhat is this?
If I come out, my thing willlook good.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
No, I mean, you have your full autonomy.
You could get up, you could gothere, but it was so interesting
to me to nobody went to theholiday show.
No.
Everybody went.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
You can't stop.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
I was like what is happening?
And I was telling my friendyesterday because she wasn't
here to come to the show.
I said there was a night when Ithink it was either the
Saturday or the Sunday andthere's a moment in the show
where Sal where Taff's characterAkia she gives Sal the weapon

(20:38):
back.
She says hey, look.
And he says move from my viewwith that and his voice filled
up the space and he's a tall guyand he has move from my being
with that and his voice filledup the space and he's a tall guy
and he has a presence and anaura.
Love that man.
And I just the whole audiencejust went.

(20:59):
Everybody leaned up On allsides, everybody just went.
I tell him move from me withthat and everybody just went and
I was there and I'm looking,I'm like everybody leave back so
you're there observing me whileyou, I'm watching you, I'm
watching you, I'm looking at you, all engaged with my work.
Because this is, you know, thisis new for me, you know, and to

(21:23):
be as close to this Because whenI had my work in 19, I did not
want to see it.
No.
I don't want to watch.
I had worked so hard, it was alot.
It was stressful.
I stayed backstage.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
This is your one for mansplaining.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, I was not having any backstage and then
the last night they comebackstage looking for me.
They want to give me flowersand pull me out.
I'm like the work is not aboutme guys no it's about you, yeah,
I just.
I don't know the words, butthis rose, I was like no, I want
to see yeah, you see all of it.
I want to see, I want to knowwhat, what, what you guys in the

(22:02):
moment experienced it there wasa lady on a Friday night.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
I can imagine.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I can imagine she was like what and then there was a
another, a young lady, sittingdown on the end on a Sunday
night and I saw she there's amonologue that tough and then
she go yeah, she pick her sideand then later on she lean fall

(22:28):
she in it.
Yeah, yeah, say right okay youhave them.
Pillow you have them.
Yes, that is the type of work Ilike to do.
Right, it's the type of workthat I feel like I've been
called to do sure.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
So Poison for you is a complete story, or you have
intention of fleshing it outmore.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
I mean I would like to leave it as is, but
characters always talk to me.
You know, I always hear TonyHall telling me in my head, like
when the characters talk, Ijust listen to them and when
they hush you tune.
Okay, when they start to talk,start to write yeah start to

(23:08):
write, start to go, so peopleare like so where do you rest?

Speaker 2 (23:11):
yeah, so other people ?

Speaker 1 (23:13):
asking this, right yeah, because I feel like okay I
want to see she go in the car.
I want to see she take the manout I want to see what happened
I'm like I want to go backwardstoo.
I want to go back to the timewhere you know when the incident
I'm like do I wanna do that, ordo I wanna just give you all
work?

Speaker 2 (23:30):
yeah, as the audience like you all could decide
whatever I suppose you, yeah, Iguess you know muhammad was here
and he said something about hisperformances and he said it's
all one thing I was asking himabout their audience interaction
and stuff and I guess that isfor you too is all is all one
thing.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
The audience is part of the thing to some extent, yes
, um, because the actors havedone their job.
As a writer and director, I'vedone mine, um, and then you're
gonna take from it what you willgotcha, um, because you come in
with your own perception yourown experiences, your own

(24:04):
perspectives.
And so you're going to receiveit different to how someone else
will.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
And that's a point of art, that's an interpretation
of the action.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
So now you have some work to do, whether it's sitting
down here talking about it orat home, yeah, and I have
nothing to do with me.
That's, you've now experiencedit and you are going to turn it
into whatever you must I wouldtoo yeah, so to some extent, yes
, the audience is important andI don't ever underestimate my
audience, ever, ever ever I meanthe things I write that I find

(24:45):
funny but nobody laughed, andthings that I find like really
people you know do a littlechuckle and so again, it's also.
You know, it's all how youreceive it gotcha yeah my work
done I yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Well, your work starts when you think was done
before I go back.
When you say Tony Hall, you'rereally wrong.
You're here today when you talkabout Tony Hall, but when you
came out at the end to kind oftalk to everybody, well first.
The first thing I noticed washow it broke the tension almost
immediately, because I mean, Iguess, when you're watching a
show or a play, when you forgetthe person you're watching.

(25:23):
That's when I know the personreally have you.
You know, I went to school withNikolai.
I never knew he was in the arts.
Really, he's so quiet in school.
I never hear him talk.
He's a menace.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I never he's really and I love that about him so
much.
Like he's, I feel so connectedto him in that way of like being
silly but also a lot of ourgoing through the process of
poison, realizing we have somuch in common.
Yeah.
Like belief system wise and Iwas like okay.

(25:56):
And he said to me one night weleft for USA, we went for a
couple of drinks and he was likeyou know, the more I'm around
you, the more I realize you'rejust like me.
Yeah, what, oh my God?
Because every day I'm inrehearsal.
I have to be professional.
I can't.
Fangirl I can't fangirl.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
No, you can't do it.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
So you're saying that you didn't know he was in the
art?
It's like, oh yeah, he wouldkeep that away from everybody.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, he was in the art.
He's a very private guy.
Quiet, quiet, as ever.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Very quiet and very, but very meditative and very
reflective and veryintrospective guy.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, a lot of depth, A lot of depth.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Oh yeah, he's a pananiotron yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
I'll get him to come and talk about it here,
hopefully one day.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he's multifaceted, he's amusician.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, he's continuously impressive.
The more I see him, his voiceis always impressive.
But I remember when you came onand you started talking, that
was the first time I realized Iwas watching Nikolai.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Right.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know, I was like shit.
This Nikolai is a real person,you know.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
you get so caught up in the role of a gangster.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
He emotions, yeah, I mean, when you're working with
best, yeah, the best, indeed thebest of the best.
I am so privileged to haveworked with them.
I did not take any rehearsalfor granted.
There's so much that I learnedabout my own process in working
with them in the songs andrealizing oh my gosh, I've
gotten better as a director lookat you, oh my gosh, people are
understanding me and I'm givingclarity and but from the from

(27:31):
jump, they just dived in and andembodied these two characters,
yeah, in such a beautiful waythat even two days before the
show, nikolai and Toph werestill finding things about the
characters and then on thesecond night he was like I don't
.
Even two days before the show,nikolai and Toph were still
finding things about thecharacters and then on the
second night he was like I don'teven feel like I mean, I know
it's the second day, but I feellike I'm not finding all the

(27:53):
things about Dee.
I don't want to go next weekend.
Yeah.
And I found that to be like.
That blew my mind because I waslike I'm not a writer pops.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
So the next weekend come in.
What will we get?

Speaker 1 (28:04):
I would like to, I think in future.
Yes, I definitely want to.
I think now that the film ideais kind of chuck in, chuck in,
chuck in.
I'm like right, okay, cool.
Maybe there's a reaction, so Ineed to make a film, but I mean,
there's no bounds.
It will evolve and become whatit must.

(28:28):
Um, I've I have thought aboutadding things to the script, as
is um, but I have also like inmy mind I'm like, if I extend it
for theater, what does thatlook like?
What is this story that you'retrying to tell?
Are you just adding for addingsake, yeah, or should you add
the thing for the screenplay,mm-hmm, you know.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Understood, understood.
So going back into the day now,because I always used to talk
about stand-up comedians and Ifeel like they have a role.
When you watch Chappelle, forinstance, he talks about very,
very uncomfortable issues,particularly political for him.
Yes.

(29:05):
And whether he end up on yourright side of the issue or wrong
.
I don't know if that exists,but at least it provokes some
thought.
Like you said, leave youthinking about it, and it seems
as though you see yourself inthe space, in the, to do the
same thing yes you know, I Iguess maybe because the most
commercial part of our theaterworld here, or the most
advertised part, is the comedything yeah it's horn.
You know I mean, once you puthorn on a flag or sell in

(29:26):
trinidad, people come in to seethe selfie.
But um uh, where would thatstart have started for you to?
To take such deep issues tomake into into theater, to
provoke thought?

Speaker 1 (29:38):
deliberately, I think .
From my childhood I kind ofbeen in the space of art, but
also activism.
Right.
But in terms of creating my ownwork as that, I would say 2015,
2016.
Where you grow.
I grew up in Belmont, belmont.
I was a Belmont girl, aboutfour streets from where Kwame

(29:59):
Ture was born.
Yeah, I see.
So you know I'm a revolutionaryat heart.
Belmont soil is very rich inthat, and also the family
background that I have.
Everybody on my mother's sideis an artist.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Everybody I see.
So I kind of, you know, didn'thave a choice.
I had to be here strugglingwith all this, trying to make
all this see, all this helpevery day.
We be here, um.
So, yeah, growing up in belmontwas and I mean because I'm
still there, I'm still livingbelmont um is a character in my
life, um, and so that would havefueled the work and be like I

(30:41):
alone see in this nonsense, oroh me, okay, right, let Right,
let's write something, let's dothat.
So that was in the poetry thatI wrote.
That was in the things I didwith my, my, my kiddie students
when I started teaching kids.
And, um, what is the?
What is we trying to get acrossto audiences in terms of, you

(31:02):
know, seeing yourself for beinga mirror to society?
I went to a play won't say whatit is and it's, um, one of the.
The storyline really is thatthis woman husband was holding
she talking about hot Gross andshe sent out Obeah for the man

(31:26):
and Obeah spin back and she wentcrazy and I sat in here and I
said so, man, don't get hot.
Now what is the story about?
The player?
About the man getting hold?
What's going on?
That was in 2016.
I said yeah, boy, I fed up Seethis woman hold story thing, I
ain't well.
Oh.
God, I'm tired.

(31:46):
I go down to a player about mangetting hold.
I go in to think I'm going todo a play about banging horns.
I'm going and that's where thefirst inception of the idea for
Mansplain came about Didn't havea name yet I was like, right,
I'm going to do a man play,right.
I started to think about allthese things and then the pieces

(32:08):
just wouldn't align and it justwouldn't happen.
And from 16 into 19, when I didit so that was three years men
would just find me Corey, I'dsit down on the bus.
That old man come and sit down.
I'd sit there the whole lifeStanding up in that line in the
bank man come, stand next to you, start to talk to you, and

(32:31):
these men just started to findme in different pockets.
Fellas come, sound like, sayI'm trying to talk, and these
men just start to find me indifferent pockets.
Fellas, who I had known for along time.
All of a sudden they start toshare intimate details and I'm
like whoa, where's this?
And.
I'll say, hmm, alright, I'mlistening, I'm listening, you're
selling it for my only time.
I'm tuning in.
I'm tuning in, and at the pointin time as well, to 16, 17,.

(32:54):
I was involved in a romanticrelationship with a gentleman
whose child mother was notallowing him access to their
child, and she was living abroad, and so there was need for
communication, and I saw how thelack of access to his child
affected him and, by extension,affected our relationship.

(33:16):
Gosh again in the middle of hisarms.
Oh, come on, Jeez, he can'thave that.
Oh, come on, Come on, I need toput this in a play.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah, you have to do something about it.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
I need to write about this.
That relationship ended upfizzling out, but the work
remained potent, beautiful.
And then that relationshipended up fizzling out, but the
work remained potent.
And then I had some focusgroups with fathers, which was
chef's kiss so good.
And then around the same time, Igot the opportunity to go into
the prisons with an ngo that I'ma part of called fire circle.

(33:48):
Right and getting storiesinside of there was the other
that I was like, oh gosh, I needto do this show.
Then I go to, then my mentor atthe time, one of my mentors at
the time, raymond Chicong, ismurdered.
I go to Grenada to cleanse, toda-da-da-da, and I'm assaulted

(34:12):
on the beach.
I said, nah, I need to dosomething about this.
One man in the thing, we needto.
If one man could get theinformation about how what they
feel affects everybody, yeah,and I left the beach and I went
to my son and I sent a message.
All the men who I think I wantto be in this right, this one,

(34:35):
this one right, when I come homeI want to meet, say alright,
cool, before he passed he had hehad told me, raymond, that is,
you're still gonna do that manshow that he's talking about,
because in the last four yearsof his life we had a very close
relationship and he was doingmentoring by the masters and one

(34:56):
of his students was doing amonologue and he said I want you
to come and make a call.
I said all right, cool, noproblem.
And I stand up in the back ofthe thing and I watch him and
the person who did the monologuehe was talking about his friend
who was murdered.
I know the friend.
The friend taught me maths,lived two doors away from me,

(35:17):
like right on the road.
I heard when he was killed ohman.
So it was an amalgamation ofthe stories from the men, the
incidents with me, therelationship I was having, the
da-da-da-da-da Raymond pushingda-da women's debt, then going
to Green Island and experiencingthis thing, and I said, nah.
And I just kept this is the workwe have to do.
This is the work.
So I got an interview with oneof the prisoners in maximum

(35:39):
security.
So thankful to the thencommissioner and assistant
commissioner and lead ofprograms for that, like to this
day, so thankful.
So we got that.
A student of mine was going toschool in New York.
He sent a video I was doinginteractive theater before it
was a.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Thing.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
So we had screens, we had a big screen and journey
play.
We had that Um uh, now veryclose colleague of mine, deidre.
She was working with youngpeople in Aruka, you know have
filming those, those children,to get them involved in the
piece, and every single one ofthe men who was in the show live

(36:17):
.
We all realized through theprocess that this was destined
In that every single cast member, my stage manager and me none
of us grew up with our father inthe house.
That's Obia and I like that.

(36:41):
That is my kind of.
It was also a very cathartictime for me because on a
professional standpoint, I wasgoing through real shit, it was
stressful.
it was crazy, it was fight dong,it was all kind of madness.
And on a day when I was justlike I don't think I want to be
here anymore, I go down and walkin front of a truck.
I was like, wait, no, I can'tdo that today.
How are you so serious this?

Speaker 2 (37:04):
is impressive.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
I tell you yeah, boy, I can't Nah, can't disappoint
my boys.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
And I went to you, sir, and I sat point my boys,
yeah, and I went to you, sir,and I sat down and I listened to
them run and I listened to themand they ran the opening piece
over and over, which was a pieceabout fatherhood, and they
finished and I went and I satdown in your room and I told
them about what my day was andI'm in tears and I felt free to
be vulnerable with them becausethey had been vulnerable with me

(37:32):
throughout the process.
So, all of that, to say that thereason why I do the type of
work that I do is because I knowthe impact it has on me as a
person and I know the impact ithas on the people I work with
and then, by extension, myaudience, and then, when you go
and you talk about it, byextension, another group of

(37:53):
people Trinidad and Tobago.
If we tore it, it, it's goingto affect people in grenada
differently, jamaica, barbados.
It's going to affect, it'sgoing to have a ripple effect.
Drop this full bucket.
And and because I know howdeep-rooted my work is, I I
understand that this is properwork.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Right.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
In that you ain't going to make no certain money
from this you know what I'msaying.
Don't put that out there.
No, Well, it's been the historyof Trinidad and Tobago that
when you're doing work that isnot seen as commercially viable,
people don't want to put nomoney in that because they don't
want to get views and likes andall this kind of garbage.

(38:36):
But that is my lane, that's myspace.
I feel called for, that'sdestined, that's that's also
what inspires me to write more,because I'm like, nah boy, be
able to tell this story, thisone here, this is the one, yeah,
this is what we had to tellthis one.
And in telling those storiesand sparking something in

(38:59):
somebody else, it's like, ohwell, then I, I do the work that
I sent them for.
I did the thing.
My goal is not to be a part ofthe popular vibes.
My goal is not to be a part ofthe cool kids table.
I revel in my anonymity.
I am so glad that people haveno clue.
I am I'm your least known guestscory and I love it.

(39:23):
I love it.
I'm niche, I'm very niche.
Um, it's just, it's yeah and Ido.
It's yeah, and I don't take forgranted the lessons that I've
gained throughout my over20-year career.
Right, one of my.
So Tony used to do.

(39:43):
Tony Hall used to doplaywrights' theater, readers'
theater, where you would write aplay and you would come and you
would have people read it.
It's very similar to what wedid with Eric and one of the
people who was head of this aplay.
I called van verne garenwouldn't know past verna was a
retired fireman but he used towrite.

(40:04):
He was one of the first peopleto read my work and he said to
me tykes, you write trinidadbeautifully.
There is something about thetexture of your writing that is
unlike anybody's that I've everseen.
When I read, I hear Trinidad.
Whoa.

(40:26):
I was 20 when he told me that Iwas 20 and I'll never forget it.
Tony used to always tell me thecharacters thing, yes, but
always.
Like you are a professionalMako and your work is to look at
people and to take thosestories and to share it, which

(40:47):
is what he told David Rudder.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I see, and David.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Rudder was doing things like writing, things like
Madman Rant and these kind ofthings, Of course, of course of
course.
So, if Tony could tell Davidand he told me it's like oof.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, I find it's such a parallel to me, like when
I talk to writers understandingfirst what moves you to write
is interesting because mostpeople who had the experience or
experiences that you hadyourself, or with others that
you had yourself or with others.
They will tell the story.
But they could tell the storyin a barbershop, on the block or
home or whatsoever it is.
But your formal training intheatre, that's where you went

(41:19):
into.
Where did it start for you thattelling your story in this way?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
so telling stories in general for me started as a
child, so my okay family rundownyeah my great-grandfather,
Clifford Archibald Roach, is thefirst West Indian cricketer to
score 100 and 200 againstEngland in a test match.
That's my stock.
That's what I come from.
My great-grandmother.

(41:43):
His wife, did not want herchildren to be Roaches, so she
said to her husband they willcarry my name, which is winter
hyphen, roach, right, germanwoman.
There we go, good stuff.
So this and as we're startingI'm even going from before them
because of acting this is mymaternal family, right.

(42:06):
My grandmother was a copywriter.
She worked at tcc radiotrinidad.
Mccann Erickson.
My grandfather was a poet.
He was part of the WhitehallPlayers.
He was good friends with DerekWalcott.
We would have spent a lot oftime at Trinidad Theatre
Workshop.
That's my grandparents.
I spent a lot of time with themin my formative years.

(42:27):
Their children, the eldest,colin Lucas, talked about my
uncle when he was here.
Sebastian Herbert I see he's anexcellent musician Taught the
world, was in Europe for many,many years.
Tortured artist.
My aunt used to read the news onTV6 at 6 am in the morning.
If you saw her, you know youwere going to be late for school

(42:49):
.
Worked at Radio Trinidad.
Worked at Trinidad Guardian.
My mother worked at the bar.
My mom worked at the Guardian.
My mom worked at TTT, workedwith Sharp Productions.
That's my stock.
I got you.
That's where I come from,maternally, paternally.
It's all about support and welove you and we pray for you,
which I appreciate and I love somuch and that's good stock and

(43:11):
I love my, my good small islandgenes that I get nice little
warish spirit right, so yeah,which island um several.
So you have grenadiers andvincent, as well as a great
great grandparents who camestraight from india as a
merchant.
So it's how all kind of thingeyes are trinity and I mix up
Trini, yeah it can't be that.

(43:31):
Taino and all that.
So there's that.
So as a child I was introducedto and around a lot of creative
spaces.
The first person to everencourage me to write stories
was a man called Roy Watts, whowas my grandfather's friend, who
was a general manager of TTT.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, he was always ending up here.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
There we go Right.
Second person TheodoraGittins-Ullering, auntie Tia the
mystic storyteller Right, right, right.
I grew up in the bush.
Okay, I grew up around Islamicpeople Hindus, catholics,
baptist lady up the road I'vebeen in.
This week is Hosea I've been inthis week is Jose.

(44:15):
I've been Jose.
I've been Jose in a long time,Me too, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
I say I go in Right.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
You have Pagwa.
When people get married, peopledie.
It's a big celebration.
It's come for food and a mannamed Jago used to feed us.
He used to feed himself.
He was a big, massive man Rotiwith a big, massive man roti,
tall like me.
yeah, you know, this is how Igrew up, got you, so I was

(44:40):
involved in in so many things,culturally as well as creatively
and all this was belmont toothis was belmont, this was
tamana, this was um diggo martinpity valley, this was trackweed
road where my grandfather lived, and then around the savannah
and then seeing dance, and mygrandfather always had people
trips and in and out of thehouse always had some pan man or

(45:02):
some person who need a lodgingand they always had stories.
It was always a vibe and I wasalways encouraged to ask
questions it wasn't make peopletalk and go from here, it was, I
was just dealing really yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Most people in trinidad didn't go tell you that
, so they couldn't be in theadult I did.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I like salt and rice, you understand, but I also had
a healthy relationship with mymaternal family, in that my love
for food comes from mygrandfather.
Nobody can tell me that I'm notavocado on toast.
I was getting avocado on toastBreads inside small.
You can't come there.
It's quite pervy.
You can't have bread.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, 60 cents for a slice too.
You can't really say avocadotoast is heavy money, avocado on
toast, let's go.
Yeah, the real McCoy, Rightwith some salt butter.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
That's where I come from.
My grandfather also livedopposite face, so at one point
in time I used to run away,sneak and go by the dog street
and eat.
When I come back I'm all tiredEating young dogs.
So and then your grandmothersaid, because she lived in
Tamina, don't go and thief,nobody fruit.
Okay, well, I wish her all thebest.

(46:10):
All the pomerak and all the fivefingers and your leg busts up
and I have scars on my leg frombeing a child and running around
and having these experiencesand because she was who she was
my grandmother.
There were people who loved hera lot, who would be around.
So that's how I met ClydeBradley.
You see, that's how I met youknow, bill Trotman was my

(46:32):
grandfather's friend.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
It's like when you were born.
You call some names here, likeNinety-one.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I was a baby.
You know, I young, I young.
But these are the people I wasaround, really.
Really.
I lived in the library.
When the library.
I read the entire children'slibrary and teen library before
they closed it to open the newlibrary.

(46:58):
Every book, fiction andnon-fiction.
And then at one point they saidlet's have a read-a-ton.
I read a non-fiction.
I went reading competition.
I went fan-eating competition Ifell in love with At a clan in

(47:21):
the duke street library.
When he comes to talk aboutdinosaur dumpling pulling to
springer, these are the people Iwas around.
Yeah, this is the information II gained from being in spaces
with these people as a youth.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, I understand that'll be really young too.
Yeah, so you don't have thenormal experience.
Well, I guess, not normal, butthe trend.
I am so privileged Corey.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I'm so, and I recognize it more and more that
I'm getting older.
I'm like, oh wait, everybodydidn't grow up like this.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, because you're calling names here, I go out and
put footnotes and I was likesome people are listening here.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
I don't know who these people are.
Yeah, that's my life, right,that's my life, and it was
encouraged so to come from thatand to then end up in a space
where you're working.
I didn't go to UWE to get adegree.
I was performing since I wassmall.
I was performing in the openingof Anime Kariba at Normandy.

(48:06):
I meet Robert Tongs and they'rephotographic proof Right, I was
in Radical Design's first showat Queen's Hall in my little
Save the World t-shirt.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
If I talk to plenty of people born in 91, they might
not even remember who's RadicalDesign.
Do you remember that?

Speaker 1 (48:23):
This is the old Queen's Hall before Colin Laird
did his beautiful design of it.
And because I love history, Ilove dates.
My affirmation to people is tocall your name Right, whether
you're here or you're no longerwith us.
I have to call your nameBecause you added value to me.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, I love that, I love that so now my job is.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
I will speak your name.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, carry it forward.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I have to, I must.
It is my duty.
Yeah, it makes sense my duty,so that's where my, my
foundation, that's the, that'sthe base, yeah, so when you're
coming from of that, when youhave that.
Yeah, you're bound to be.
Yeah, and and it's so new forme to even talk about myself
because I don't like to do itright um, because I'm like, of

(49:08):
course I don't want to be 10,I'm a grandma, very, of course,
you know, and's very.
You don't talk about yourselftoo much, you just put your head
down.
You get your work done, nope.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, that changed.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
I have had to yeah, because I have had to recognize
that I am standing on theshoulders of people who did
great things, and I am not anold just come and I've been
doing this for a very long time,which is why, when I open my
mouth and I say certain thingsor I have certain stances, I
know that there is a backing.
And it comes from some placeand then just yeah, I'm going to

(49:43):
get out my big toe this morning, like no.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Like we were talking about Angie Martinez before we
started.
Her book was about finding hervoice.
You know, a powerful book to mein terms of what she's been
able to accomplish as you weresaying but even before that I
want to talk about Belmont alittle bit, because Belmont, for
me, I grew up in St James,right, but I have a lot of
family, some of the closestfamily.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Second place I would live if I was talking from
Belmont.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, but everybody, everybody in Tr spot because
that's what I was saying who saytoo?
I was saying that, yeah, but um, belmont is a oh, at least when
I was growing up a cultural hub.
You know, a lot happens comingout of belmont.
A lot of things that happen inother places get stamped and
passed through belmont beforethey come in town.

(50:25):
You know, and it hurts me a lotwhen I look at belmont.
Now I was looking at adocumentary.
Well, you saw this, fellowchristmas, let's come trin.
Yes, I'm not a fan, so he'swalking through several
different areas, right, andBelmont was one.
That was, I guess, because Iknow Belmont.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
And that whole idea from the circular road to Bella
Road, I can't walk this side tothat side what we come to,
because we used to walk, we usedto just walk everywhere.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Well, I don't know who I walk in, I don't care.
Yeah.
I shouldn't say I don't care, Iwalk with purpose.
You use discernment, sure.
But there's also a sense of I'mfrom here, these streets know
me.
I know these streets.
I went to school in Belmont.
I went to Belmont.
Girls Right On Clifford Street.
Do you know Ms Rousseau,belmont Gills, great On Clifford

(51:11):
Street?
Do you know Miss Russo?
Miss Russo was my teacherbefore she went Newtown Serious.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
There's mine too, eh.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
And so therefore, I know your next auntie, who's the
crocheted Eastside people.
This is the people I grew upwith, I understand.
So I went to Belmont, gills,passed for St Franco and then
worked in Belmont for a longtime, right on Jenningham Avenue
.
I know all the crackheads.
I know all the homeless people.
I know all the people living inthe houses old people, who's
sick, old people who gettingbetter, all the children, da, da

(51:44):
, da da.
I know which cherry tree to goon and which one not to go by
because I have a big dog and Ihave a big dog and I tempt that
man there.
He don't like children, so Iknow all those things, of course
.
So it's all about walking andpurpose for me.
Yeah, so I'm going to go and I,up to last night I was having
this conversation with a personand saying, you know, I'm coming

(52:07):
out of the taxi at Park andFrederick, because he wanted to
take me down into Portisbury Isaid no, no, no, I'm not going
there.
It's easier for me to get outof the park and Frederick to
walk in as opposed to walkingfrom the bottom of Charlotte
Street at this hour my next tome said well, you have to not
walk around at this hour of thenight, Skrgs.

(52:29):
If I go Germany, 2 am in themorning, I'm walking up and down
New York and the subway 4 amYou're on the A going back to
Brooklyn from Manhattan.
I must come home and go inbefore the news starts.
Only outer place.
And it's not about beingarrogant.
It really is saying hey, I amnot going to let a few people

(52:54):
hold me hostage in my community.
But I think the reason why theyhave the mindset and this is
these young men and women wholive the lives that we've
featured in Poison.
They don't know themselves.
They also don't know whatBelmont has gifted the world
because it's not been taught tothem.

(53:15):
It's a very deliberate andsystemic thing to keep you away
from yourself.
Those of us who have theprivilege to access spaces
outside of our communityunderstand it all too well.
But when you want to hustlebecause you left school at 15,
because of whatever circumstancewhether it is, you didn't have

(53:38):
your parent, or your grandmotherwas your sole caretaker, or you
were taking care of yourgrandparent and your smaller
siblings, and school is a bittoo much, because that rigid
columns and rows thing is notwhere your brain is at.
You're more fix it person andthe school is not designed to
assist multiple types oflearners.

(53:58):
So it's it's all of thesedifferent things.
So when you trying to eat, youdon't have time to study, of
course kwame ture from belmontshadow leaves.
a big one was living in belmont,brother Mudada from behind the
bridge.
You don't have time to study,yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
And this is what I mean fully when you say systemic
, you know, and this way goingback to the characters in Poison
, yeah.
I appreciate the fact thatsomebody willing to, because I
feel like it's a risk sometimesto tell these stories that make
us uncomfortable or make me castit on my chair.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I'm willing to tell those stories, Corey.
I think it is my responsibilityto tell those stories.
I appreciate it yeah, I can'tdo airy-fairy, people will be
like oh gosh, chaka, you're sofunny, why do you write a comedy
?
I can't, yeah, it just doesn'tcome to me.
Really it just, I don't.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Well, it just I don't Well.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
when you came on in Poison, the whole thing turned
into a comedy immediately.
I'm good off the cuff.
Don't ask me to write no scriptfor a comedy.
It will be the most boringcomedy you'll ever find in your
life.
But you see drama.
Yeah.
I love that.
I feel most challenged withwriting drama, because how do

(55:16):
you make these people, how doyou make an audience fall in
love with a villain or side witha villain?
That's my favorite kind ofmovies don't watch, yeah, yeah,
yeah I.
The only villain I didn't likewas jeffrey baratia.
Yeah, the world is gary lamb,but I find myself like most
times.
I love a villain.
The joker is my favoritevillain.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Jack nicholson's joker, oh my yeah, I remember
like denzel and training day,like and then he, good looking,
so warm.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
You know I mean, yeah , so I.
But I know for a fact that intelling these stories, um, or
giving I have a given voice.
You, um, telling these storiesis important because they won't
get told, because most people,like you say, are afraid to,

(56:07):
because it is risky.
And how you go?

Speaker 2 (56:09):
yeah, of course, of course, of course, yeah, yeah,
yeah, the duality of it.
You know, sometimes you're kindof on the character side,
sometimes you're not.
You know, because it's within.
They say as a community, ownyour own past and so on.
Yeah, but you also teach, yes,yes, your teaching is in theater
as well yes, I've been through.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I left school and started teaching.
So I started teaching at 17.
Yeah, yeah, I teach from littlepeople all the way up to adults
.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
But how you do it.
Is it workshops or is it aschool?
Is it an institution?
Workshops.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
So I started teaching theater workshops for children
right out of school, actually,right out of school.
I taught teenagers and I did acarnival theater workshop
alongside some um carnival, umartisans, people who are
midnight robbers and baby dollsand like.
Get teens involved in creatingthe work um to become a part of

(57:07):
the the ethos.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
So how are you going about doing that?
Because that's 17 when you sayyou're doing a workshop yeah
what does that look like?
You're gonna rent a space.
You're gonna advertise.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
I was working with a theater company at the time, and
so that was the avenue throughwhich I would have done that
right um, and so we would haveinvited these, these teenagers,
to come and, as they'repreparing for cxc, I I was a
drama facilitator and then thepractitioners of the midnight
rubber, babyber, babydoll,damarine they came in and they
bolstered the theatre to whatthey practice, I see.

(57:38):
So that's what we did withCarnival Workshop.
So that's the first thing Iever, as I leave school, I was
teaching that.
Yeah.
And then teaching littlechildren theatre, which was very
interesting, because I was likeoh my gosh, they're children,
they're small, are they going?
To understand.
And they did.
I was like, oh my gosh, they'rechildren, they're small, are
they going to understand?
And they did.
The first play I ever directedwas Sonia Dumas' Two Villages on

(57:58):
a River, and that was beautifuland that was a nice entryway
into working with children.
And then I did that for manyyears and then I started
teaching teachers how to teachdrama, which was very
interesting.
When there was an effort to wantto get rid of se and create um

(58:22):
like through your yeah, move thecontinuous yes continuous
assessment component, as theycalled it, and so I was part of
the visual and performance umcurriculum team so to help build
the curriculum as well as goout and teach teachers how to
integrate drama dance into theiralready established curriculum.
So how do you teach mathematicswith drama?

(58:44):
There's exercises, theaterexercises you could use to teach
how to multiply and how to addand how to do vocabulary.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I was going to ask if you find children who are
already like yourself infamilies, who in the arts or who
in school add and how to dovocabulary as well.
I'm going to ask if you findchildren, if you find children
who already like yourself infamilies, who in the arts or who
in school doing arts orsomething.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Most times, no, no most times no, um their children
who are engaged because theycame to a theater camp, because
they want to be a star.
So there's also that spectrum,but most times no no most times,
no um teens also.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
They're just like I don't really want to be here
asking because, like I wasexposed, let me put this out
there too right, I want to writea play one day, something I
want to do I don't know where tostart eric has a workshop
started in the next week, soI'll send you good good, that
may be the best thing to do.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
I've been playing this in chat GPT.
I've got chat GPT.
You want to write the play forme?
I don't like that.
No, no you have to write yourown thing yourself, yeah yeah,
every couple of weeks stopcoming up but I was exposed to
it well through, of course,auntie Saka, who I used was the
boy in the play right.
Every single time her daughterwas always in the play gabby and

(59:54):
I know it was her.
So I remember doing severalplaces in francis.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Church is yes, I'm about to see.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Yeah I always bought the one boy anything and then I
used to go to church camp backin the day, and in church camp
he's a victory heights ah, okaythere would always be a night
where we all play like acompetition.
So I started to get exposed.
Exposed to coming up with someideas, making an idea into a
production.
They give us a little thing andyou buy some things from the
tuck shop and you make it happen.

(01:00:20):
And then, of course, school wasa lot like Iwan Newton boys.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
And there was always something that had to be a part
of it.
You know only a Maraval street.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the whole Maraval Val Road.
You had to make it happen.
It's TTT, of course it's not,but I feel like if sometimes we
discuss things like plays on thearts in general as if it's for
people like yourself andsomebody who is an academic or
an engineer can't benefit fromit and I feel like we're missing
something oh yes, we're missing.

(01:00:48):
Yeah, because we're missing alot when I do those things for
church and we talk, you know,church in church, we're talking
about Ebenezer church and theman that gets saved in the end,
right, so we know what willhappen in the end, but at least
you get the opportunity toexplore different concepts and
real life and what was actuallyhappening in the block on St
James and then some kind of notresurrection but some savior

(01:01:09):
come through in the end andwe're good and I wonder if, like
when you say, use drama to helpwith maths or use drama to help
with different subjects.
I I wonder how, um, how far arewe from getting things like that
into the curriculum, like very,very early, to help our
children learn differently?

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
um, how far away are we from it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
um, well first, if you see benefits in it.
Yes, I do Definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
How far away from it, I think, unless we have
constitutional change.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Oh, as deep as that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's trying to.
She's not siloed, but she'sdeep.
You know what I mean.
The education system that wecurrently have is built on a
British system, a British systemwhich is based on eugenics.

(01:02:03):
Okay, it's proven.
The literature is there.
You can read it when we veeraway from that, I think we will
be in a better standing.
However, we also need to not beon a five-year cycle.
We've now entered a newfive-year cycle and it seems as

(01:02:24):
though everything that happenedin the last 10 years has been
wiped clean.
Nothing existed before April of2020.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
So we're always starting out fresh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
We're always starting fresh existed before april of
2020, so we always start in ourfresh.
We always start and fresh.
How we will get anything doneif we always start and from zero
?
We should be in a place ofbuilding on what already exists
because we're going backward.
Yeah, if we have to start fromscratch all the time by design
so there must be a way, whetherit's through constitutional

(01:02:54):
reform and legislature of yo.
You can't wipe away whathappened before.
We need to build on it.
There also needs to be acollective agreement between
everybody in Trinidad and Tobagothat we need to get rid of
exams, and I say that with mychest.

(01:03:15):
The children I deal with theyalways have a test.
They always have it.
So now, when they reach by menow, they have severe anxiety
because they think that when Iask them a question it's an exam
when really and truly I justwant to have a conversation.
There's no reason we should behaving an exam at standard one,

(01:03:37):
standard three and then standardfive.
There's no reason why atstandard three, we throw away
social studies and be onlyfocusing on maths, english,
creative writing.
I'm ponging that in the chairand you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
In r wrote too.
Yes, memorize it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
So you, because you have to do it just as it says on
paper, so you're not creatingholistic human beings, you are
creating little machines whowill then go into this wrecked
system.
So what are we doing?
We are testing.
We are testing society.
Now, that's what we just do.

(01:04:16):
We just do tests.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
And you know what adds away, saying we have a
culturally, I suppose, attitudewhere everything that is not
maths, english and creativewriting is considered
extracurricular.
And you must stopextracurricular when tests come
in, which drives me up everywall.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Don't play no sports, don't play no pan considered
extracurricular, yeah, and youmust stop extracurricular when
tests come yeah, which drives meup every wall don't play no
sports.
No, don't play no pan when allof these things scientifically
contribute to you doing well inthe maths, english and all of
these things, because if you'rein theater you're gonna be able
to tell stories, so yourcreative writing is going to be

(01:04:54):
exceptional.
You're playing football, you'replaying hockey.
It's all about strategy.
It's all about working in teams.
It's all about knowing scores.
It's also fitness and exercise.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Yeah, so you could show up to study better.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Yeah, but now it's only test, test, test, test,
test.
And then you've removed socialstudies and civics and and he
tests, tests, tests, tests,tests.
And then you remove socialstudies and civics and he says
so, these children have no cluewho Baz Diop and is Rude, how
you could not know the silverfuck?
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
They only know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
You have no clue.
Who the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
They know how much worse off their life is for not
knowing that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
The diploma, you know leaders of this country.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
It's difficult, and you're talking about the
politics.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Emblems.
You don't know.
Your national anthem, yourschool pledge?
Your school will have a schoolsong.
It's you know.
There's a lack of belief incountry because we don't teach
it, we don't engender it.
The only time we wear red,white and black is if it's our
football match in the stadium orit's Independence Day.

(01:05:55):
But because there's no pride inour country and it shows in the
infrastructure being what it isand the crumble of the like, the
literal crumble of theinfrastructure.
When the folks at the top don'tcare, why I should care?
All in effects in the roads Iwill throw the garbage.
The garbage collection is fewand far between, and so you know

(01:06:18):
I will litter.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Add that to the people who you say looking for a
daily hustle and to get anyother ones, okay, they'll
destroy whatever it is includingyourself.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
So it's multi, it's multi-layered and it's.
And I?
Marlon Hopkinson told me Isound like a politician when I
came to his show to promotepoison.
I said no, marlon, don't tellme that, oh girl no, but you
sound like that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
That's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
I said to him there are four things that are going
to get you around in a betterplace, and that's the arts,
which is creative and performingarts, sport, agriculture and
the tourism.
Of all those three things and Iwas doing some maths the other

(01:07:06):
day, or at least attempting towe have nine prisons in Trinidad
and Tobago, nine in Trinidadand Tobago, nine.
All of the population of thoseprisons put together is, I want
to say, a small fraction of theamount of artists and artisans
we have in Trinidad and Tobago.

(01:07:26):
Why do we have more criminallawyers than entertainment
lawyers?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Are you trying?
To blow my mind here thanentertainment lawyers You're
trying to blow my mind here.
You say the daily hustle, thedaily hustle.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
So we have more criminal lawyers than we have
people who could tell you how towrite a contract.
Or folks who go into psychologyand mental health practitioners
, because we need those.
Why we don't have peopletalking about branding and
sponsorship for sportsmen andsportswomen and doing

(01:08:06):
endorsements and understandingthat type of contract law.
Why we don't have people doingagricultural law and
understanding land and probateand all of these different
things people is who learn andprobate as a side hustle to the
criminal career.
That blows my mind and if we, ifwe take care of our environment

(01:08:28):
and we invite people totrinidad to see it, and that's
pulling people for tourism andthis is outside a carnival, the
amount of performers that wehave, be it dancers, drummers,
any type of musician in thespace, creative space, the

(01:08:49):
visual artists, people who aredoing sculpting.
And to the technicians in thecreative space, right Men who
pulling cable and putting uptrusses and is more than them,
nine stations put together.
Who's the representation forthem?
Who is, you know, having theirbacks and making sure that

(01:09:11):
they're well taken care of?
Where's their OSHA?
Where you know what is our?
Where are our trade lawyers?
Where are the people who willassist us in making Trinidad and
Tobago a one-stop shop whereeverybody in the career wants to
come out and make a movie, theywant to make a TV series, they
want to come and do theater,they want to do sport meets here

(01:09:33):
?
Kishan Walker just opened a spa, a med spa, where you can go as
an athlete and do recoverybecause he had an injury two
years ago.
So now I feel like, and that'show he was like, but I don't
have nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I'm going to start it .

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
I'm going to take my money and I'm going to invest it
into this thing.
We should have people trainingto be chiropractors.
Of course, we should have youngpeople working alongside the
boys who are going to learn toplay football.
We have children going to learnhow to do deep massage and
physical therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
But now I understand the answer in terms of
constitutional change, becausewe ain't reaching there right
now.
Because I can ask like is theresomebody in the arts and in
performing arts societally youfeel like it's a respected
profession.
Is it something that peoplelook at and they say, no,
there's no point?
Everybody wants their child tobe a doctor, a liar engineer yes

(01:10:33):
, engineer, and these things aregreat.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
We need those things but we need to pair them with
all the other things so youbrought up colin lucas, right?
I find it's one of the mostinteresting things about us as
well, or mark lequan as anexample yes we have so many
people like the Trinbake onionis not one thing no, we could
never be, which is why people belike you have to choose one
thing.
No, I'm a multi high-flyingperson.

(01:10:55):
I do everything, and the onlything I don't do is underwater
welding the you know the I mean.
Mark is a brilliant example.
I had the joy of working withhim um a couple years ago, of
understanding that I love thisthing.
I am a musician in my heart.

(01:11:17):
My day-to-day are dealing withthe politicians and making big
decisions, multi-million dollarmoves, but the thing that saves
me from not going in my officeand strangling people is playing
the guitar or composing a pieceof music for Deshra to sing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Of course.
Of course.
It defines us.
It's who we are.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
That is such a beautiful thing and I think that
if we on that whole exam tip oftest, test, test, test, test
tests, we lose the value of allthe other things and then people
who see the value takeadvantage of it and then talk
about how they own it, which iscrazy to me, because you cannot

(01:12:00):
own something that we haveinherited yeah, of course, and
that's not yours because you hadto leave when you're dead and
gone it's the children who arecoming up, people who aren't
even born yet it's their own.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Yeah, something that's so interesting about the
testing too, because I neverthought about that.
One of the questions I had toask you about was stage fright
and anxiety.
But when you say that it's so,it's profound because we create
this environment from as soon asyou're in kindergarten.
You're coming up the road whereyou're bound to be frightened
if you have a question, oryou're bound to be frightened if

(01:12:34):
you had to go and stand up andtalk in front of people much
less sing or act, because Idon't know if that's your
experience, that you have a lotof people who come with that
stage fright.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
Yes, and they think it's bad.
I think stage fright couldactually fuel your thing and you
use that anxiety to push youthrough to the end of your
speech or your monologue or theplay.
I tell my babies, like yo, thatfeeling of butterflies in your
stomach.
Use that as excitement.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Yeah, that's what I know.
Think of it as excitementrather than nerves.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
That's what it is.
It's excitement and your bodyknows that you're going to do
this performance and your bodyis excited.
So match the excitement in yourbody with your exuberance and
push that voice from where youhave to project.
Right you have to project yourvoice so that the audience will
hear you.
So use that to be able topresent to your audience Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
I have some brilliant babes.
I would imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
They're amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
I love them and what age is it?

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
my youngest is five my youngest is five.
Yeah, good, good so youngest isfive and then the eldest.
How old is the eldest boy?
I think she's 19.
So what are we 19?
Yeah, there's a wholebangalation on them, but
20-something on them.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
So that's what Preto is designed for?
That, yes, okay, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
So, as founded 27 years ago by Earl and Christine
Mark, it is a cornerstone ofBelmont.
It is important for BFT toencourage young people to be
involved in the performing artand so we have, you know, some
of the best small drummers.

(01:14:13):
We have some of the best smalldrummers in the country and they
are.
So one of them who drums withus, also drums with Renegades,
also drums with some band, donkSounds he's, he's, he's, he's,
he's he's, he's, he's, he's,he's, he's he's, he's, he's,
he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,he's, he's, he's he's who drums

(01:14:40):
with usbut, also drums with St
Margaret's boys.
I see Brilliant drummer,disciplined young man,
respectful.
Love her drum.
Love her wall If you give him apencil here you go he knock him.
Yes, sorry, sorry, auntie,Sorry auntie, sorry, auntie
Right, beautiful family and thatencourages him to continue with

(01:15:05):
his instrument he at rehearsalwhen we're not using, he in
front, he doing his homeworknice when he finish your
homework, he's right there.
All right, aren't you ready?
Yes, I'm ready.
Okay, cool, great.
So we have those, those youngmen, and we have our little
dancers who are?
very, very popular when we haveour show, because they're small

(01:15:25):
and they're chunky and they lookcute and everybody's fascinated
and they can rememberchoreography.
So we have Zafira and Shilohand Asia.
You know they're dancing.
They like market they do achoreography to market last year
.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
So they oh, blinking market I like it, I market, you
know, I like it I like it theyhave a little nylon in the back,
and you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
So they.
They love music, they lovedancing.
I can't go in this space andnot have a million of them
coming to hug me, is that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
of course, of course, they can talk with you just
like how you talk.
It's just how you call.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Yeah, call your name this way and I love to see them
dance and perform.
And then I'm like, oh gosh, isit time to go home?
Yet I'm tired, auntie, I wantto go.
Okay, no, we're going to runone more time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
All right, okay, one more, one more, and they go, and
they're ready.
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
And they get ready, and then they down, and it's so
important, I think for misschristine and, by extension, her
husband, uncle, to support themin in their um their journey
creatively, but also to makesure, hey, your homework, to do

(01:16:39):
your projects of course, becauseyou have to be well-rounded but
this exactly what you're sayingis a more well-rounded citizen
we created.
And all of my children,especially my teens, because now
the juniors are becoming thejunior seniors, as I call them,
because they're going intosecondary school.
Now, Anything that you're notgoing to learn in school,

(01:17:00):
they're going to learn with me.
So when you come, come withyour head on come with your
listening ears tuned in becauseyou're going to get some gems
that are going to help you be abetter person.
And all of them know I don'tplay, I'm very, I'm a
disciplinarian.
I don't shout, I don't ball.
I'm the queen of silence.

(01:17:22):
I'm the queen of silence, allthe talking, read them out and
then it's oh, auntie, tiger,auntie tiger.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Wait, auntie tiger.
I must try that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
I must try it and I'm just watching because clearly
all they're having are verymeaningful discussion there so
when I'm done when the caucus iswrapped.
I will then give direction, andso I use the work that I do
with them to teach.
So, last year for our show.
I did the opening piece withthem, we did peregrinades and in

(01:17:56):
it was really a love letter toBelmont and to call the names
and to be like these are whohave contributed to our space.
This is the space that we takeup.
This is what we've gifted theworld yeah we've gifted the
world jason griffith, who haspassed.
We've gifted the world the kingsailor we've.
And the fancy sailor we'vegifted the world pan borough

(01:18:19):
kids, ellis clark.
Ellis clark, the man he titledDavid Rudder, shadow Over the
Hill Boys.
You know all these sportingteams that came out of Belmont
playing against Woodbrook,fellas and St Anne's men in that

(01:18:40):
same savannah that we have atour doorstep the fact that this
was free people who created thiscommunity.
Yeah, yeah, it didn't have noplanning.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
It was put a house, put a house put, a house put a
house.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
And then we're like, oh shucks, we need a road.
Rest on the road.
You got a lot to have to.
Right and then donkey cartlaying because that's the only
vehicle it had the donkey cartto the garbage.
They don't have no cars.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they need towalk.
Now, if you could drive inBelmont, lavonty and Sandow you
could drive, you could drive.

(01:19:12):
You could drive, and then thenext step up is being able to
drive in Grenada, because theyhave to drive different.
Seriously, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I see a man, he on the phone,he driving a big truck and he on
the phone and he taking so much.
He halfway out the truck but hegoing round a bend like the

(01:19:33):
video.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the road's smaller than thevideo.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Yeah, you're the holy end, you get some custom if
you're the holy end holy end.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
So so to infiltrate their minds with who has gifted
us belmont they're critical wasso important for me and I I I do
with them all the time.
I'm like who's this?
Like we don't know auntie thisperson is, and I get them yeah,
because the school might not seesomebody saying not might, and
the school is not.
I love that you're givinganybody a bit of a story, but
they're not teaching us.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
No, they have to Like .
There's a partner I have inBelmont, I think you and Jenning
.
I'm having you just oppositeTrey.
I only know him as Mr Cooper.
Yes, but he has a whole SteveCooper yeah.
Yeah, he has a sometimes, yeah,like you see, they use the term
gangsters you know, I mean ifthey paint the murals of the

(01:20:28):
heroes all the time.
Yeah, we sometimes just leaveour heroes to be memories yeah,
because who's all here?

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
yeah who's all here?

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
I like it yeah, because it's.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
It's also in the way that we treat each other.
We just okay, we do business,because what Kai saw was singing
in a bamboo tent or going andsinging for political parties.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
He ain't getting paid .

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
He ain't getting rum and roti.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
Of course, of course, of course.
Lou was talking about the stickfighters and the pan-man being
criminals.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yes, them is bad chance.
Of course, yeah.
Them is bad chance, and theGerman woman.
And maybe they're still out insome instances, yes no, I mean
in our mindset as a society.
Yes, that's what I mean as thatthey're still ruffians and
slapping a sponsor on themdoesn't necessarily, you know,
mean that you're rich in societyyou just have to play a little

(01:21:20):
tunes and then look to presshead out, which is what a lot of
corporate sponsors doyeah with these, with these
bands.
But you know that thatbarricade culture I think has to
come back, has to return wherewe take care of each other, that
community, and making sure thateverybody knows what's

(01:21:40):
happening with everybody yeahand it's a matter of protecting
each other yeah, we outsourcethat.
We outsource that to minister ofnational security and homeland
security and police and army andthings that we never used to
see about our own communitiesyeah, which is very interesting
because those are colonialstructures constitutional change

(01:22:03):
yeah, so whereas for me in thecharacter of the jamet is she's
a woman in the community whoknows who have high blood
pressure, so he can't drink it'ssalt you gain your mother
pressure come you sit down andshout some peace and let me get
some sense into you, becauseclearly you forget yeah that we,

(01:22:23):
you, we can take you out andthat is the energy we need in
this space.
We need that charm and energy ofI can send a well-worded email
with that charm to whom it mayconcern.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Yeah, that's charm and energy for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Yeah, I will, you will, or say I'm not playing,
and I think that you know theholding people accountable is
very much Jammet's energy aswell too.
I see you doing nonsense.
I'm going to tell you.
I see you doing nonsense andyou know that what you're doing
is nonsense.
So when you're finished doingthat, we're going to talk.

(01:23:08):
The child is always there, thedoor is may not always be open,
but it's have a window.
Is it now can't come?
You know, I mean, um, thatsense of community is I don't
want to say it's lost, I thinkit is, it is in the minority,
and that whole thing of don'ttalk to my child yeah, imagine
that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
Look who we come to.
Whoa, look who would havethought.
I see in a return to it.
Somewhat, though, because thecommunity was one way Belmont
and St James, same thing peopleborn and grow.
Their grandparents are great,but now the communities get kind
of like contrived, it's gatedand it's places where all of we
come from different places.
Just put we together and ifpeople don't make an effort to
make community, it's not naturalthen, it's not so that dieing

(01:23:51):
off a little bit, but inpreserving those stories, that
is where Pioneer Productionswould have come from.
Yes, how long ago you started16 2016 oh 2016, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Yeah, yeah, she's a baby.
She's a baby.
It's going to be 10 next year,boy, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Imagine that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
Yikes, that's crazy.
Yeah, but the birth of Pioneeralso, too, was to be able to
collaborate with other creativesin this space who were
like-minded, Because I am quiteaware that I can't have all the
things or make all the things.
That's reality, and so in orderto make work, I'm like I have

(01:24:28):
to partner, I have tocollaborate, I have to work with
my peers and I also have tomake sure that it has to be
sustainable.
That was always the vision,that how do we make making work
sustainable for us all?
And that there's a certainlevel of equity, um, whether

(01:24:49):
it's ownership after the factthat we make it, or we're like
we just want to make somethingand and then we'll divvy it up,
or how do we you bring a thingand I bring a thing, and as a
real susu vibe, of course.
So, for example, with poison,primary productions is the
leading producer, of course, touse the resources that we have,
shared resources.
So my photographer is part ofStenic.

(01:25:26):
My stage manager is part ofStenic.
We all create a show called TwoJammets.
That's us, that's work thatwe've done, but the rehearsal
space is Stenic's.
So I don't have to pay forrehearsal space because it's a
susu.
You put a thing and I put athing, and everybody add to the
pot because, we're here for acommon goal, so that's an

(01:25:47):
associate producer role thatStenic would have taken up.
And then my person who didmedia like does add into the pot
, adding susu, you know, andthat for me is really why I keep
pushing with Pioneer.
There's a while back I was justlike I just want to scrap that.

(01:26:08):
But then to do this is damn,please, hard, but I love doing
it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
It's enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
It really is.
Yeah, I couldn't see myselfdoing anything else.
And also, I am quite aware thatthe vision I have for myself
and for my peers is notnecessarily shared on a broad
spectrum, because I am veryanti-treating artists badly and

(01:26:43):
I'm very vocal about it, and Iknow that when I very vocal
about it, right, and I know thatwhen I'm vocal about it, it
riles people up and gets memm-hmm.
But I am in a position nowwhere I'm like I set my time, I
set my hours, but I also set myrate.
Mm-hmm.
So, like earlier this year, Iwas telling I did a video and I
said, Like earlier this year, Iwas telling I did a video and I

(01:27:03):
said, if you want a higherperformance for $500 TTD, get
somebody else to do it.
Yeah, go do it, I'm not doingit.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Yeah, I appreciate you doing that too, because
that's sustainability critical.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
It's not bad.
But no, my attitude now is I'mnot even, and that was in
January when I did that.
Now in June or July, I'm like Idon't want you to get nobody
else to do it Run your dust.
Nobody must be doing it for 500TCD, run your dust.

(01:27:34):
So in that sense now I seePioneer taking up the fore of
championing equity and equitablesharing of resources, because
that's what I do in mypartnerships with Stenic, with
Teatro Junior, which is Taffa'scompany, with Mova LLC, which

(01:27:58):
are my partners in Los Angeles.
So I definitely see my rolehere as being we not taking that
.
I had to be the gentleman onthe front.
So they told me can't.
That's my role andresponsibility now.
So now it's run your dust,because $500 is 1996 rate.

(01:28:23):
It cost me $500 to get here ina taxi, don't pay me that.
And also private entities.
Corporate general ad, and thegovernment is not to set my rate
for me.
They're not doing any work,it's I doing it, so I know how
much it costs to do this.
A technocrat is not to tell methat I have to work for $500.

(01:28:43):
It's a no.
And I've work for $500.
It's unknown yeah.
And I've already experiencedpushback.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
I would imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
I've already experienced pushback, especially
and I don't know if this mightbe, you know, surprising from
artists.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
From artists.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Fellow payers.
So they're the one, they go tothe five, they do the one or
more.
No, no, the artists who do so.
They don't want the five, theydon't want no more, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
The artists who do any higher end don't want to pay
the five.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
I see, I see, I see, oh yeah, they want to pay the
five.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
Got it, got it, got it, of course, you know how hard
it is, of course you haveexperience, but it might be just
the same thing at this stand.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
They'll take the stands that you've taken and I
take the short.
I'll short the others.
Talk about it.
In any part of the industry yousay four things.
Go, bring me back, talk toanybody in them.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
Four things and you'll find that and they'll
always take the undercut,because there'll always be
somebody who will accept thefive, of course, which is crazy
to me.
Which is crazy to me.
But I also like this year, myexperience.
I told Jor-El, I said I'm notdoing the mash gra ever again.
No, really.
Unless I is the producer of themash gra.

(01:29:50):
I'm not doing the mash gra, noit's it.
I'm not doing it BecauseCalypsonians don't know what
things cost, correct, the peoplewho run the organizations on a
national level don't know whatthings cost.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
They don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
Or maybe they just don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
You say it.
You know, we have a thing inthis society too, where it's
that whole eat our food or thehustle thing, people watching.
Sometimes we think peoplemaking decisions on our behalf.
Right, you see, somebody callyou a politician.
I always feel like politicians.
Sometimes we think, okay, it'sabout building a road or making
the community better.
Sometimes it's about why Icould get out of the deal.
You know, and that is precedent.

(01:30:34):
So when you wonder well, whythey put this so, why they
didn't think of this, why thiswasn't beautified.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
It's not in their best interest, and it's not.
Part of them would have superand die, which is crazy to me
because I am your employer.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
Well, let us forget that I am your employer.
Let us forget that.
Don't forget they're workingfor me.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
I forget we're here sometimes talking to each other.
So and yeah, but I just feellike there must be somebody
standing guard.
But I just feel like there mustbe somebody to stand the guard.
When my mother named me, shenamed me because the name was
nice, but the name isScandinavian.
It means pioneer.
Tiger means pioneer.
The pioneer is the people who'sGod first.

(01:31:17):
Them is who does draw the treeline and clear the way for
everybody.
So say there's a way here orthere.
So I don't know.
You know your portion Frominception.
You know your role.
She set me up.
She set me up, and even innaming the company Pioneer

(01:31:40):
Productions too, it's like ah,because, it's Tony used to call
me Pioneer, I see he used to sayhe asked me one time he said um
, what do you?
What does it like?
I mean?
And I told him so every timeafter that yeah, as soon as he
reaches, I go um.

(01:32:02):
Yeah, and then his brother,denn Dennis, used to call him a
hard name that is a good flesh.
Hard name, Hard name.
And then he used to say to meand Taffa, he said Tua Dem, Tua
Dem is a problem here, and he'sa real hand on his daddy's
shoulder.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The real McCoy.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
This one name hard, and this one name is an acronym,
because that was named with anacronym.
Oh it is yeah, it really is Isee so I mean, he was just
something else.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
I can't remember where you are.
When you say Dennis, you haveto say Dennis.

Speaker 1 (01:32:38):
Sprung along hall.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
Because all I don't know people, just in case, sorry
.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Dennis sprung along hall.
No people, just in case.
Sorry, dennis, cranham Hall whois one of the mentors of Joel
and I.
And, dear boy, one of the firstplays I actually wrote one of
his friends, zling LesleyMatthews, who taught me stage
management because we do thattoo Sure she encouraged me to
write and she was like you haveto write a play, you have to
write a play, you have to writea play.
You have to write a play.
You have to write a play, and soI did.
I wrote this play called theLesson, which is about two flag

(01:33:10):
women.
Clearly, I love small casts.
I managed 15 people.
I don't know how Louis MarkWilliams does it but pick up,
louis pick up Ifebo Dr Ifebopick up Zenoebo pick up xeno
constant.
Oh, big gas oh pick up, pick upthe tidewords, because, oh you
see them, big gas.

(01:33:30):
I never michaelian taylor, he'sa big gas man too, the big gas
man.
Um, so, yeah, so um doesn't sayyeah, write the script.
So I wrote the lesson andsprang read it and sprang say so
.
So where do you rest?
Somebody asked.
Somebody asked.
I said it stopped short.

(01:33:52):
We're good Him.
No, you have to write more, buther name, you ain't easy.
I want to know about these twowomen and what's going to happen
?
They're going in panorama.
He said I'll go.
And what's going to happen?
They go in the panorama.
And he started going sayingyeah, I'm all right, I will
leave you.
I will leave you, yeah yeah,yeah, and he started mulling and
he started calling names and hestarted talking about people
with the wave flag and I justsit down and I listen and.

(01:34:16):
I take it in and that's been myfortune my entire life To sit
at the feet of greats, thegreats, the greats, the legends.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Yeah, imagine that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
So that's why I say I understand my privilege and I
also understand that from thename to knowing that sometimes
this road is going to be superlonely, but I'm so privileged to
have the people that I havearound me right now and this
season of my life, it's like I'mlike who I don't take it for

(01:34:47):
granted.
Um, I'm so thankful, I'm sograteful, as she, that all the
things, what I went, through hasbrought me to this point, where
I'm surrounded by people whorespect me, respect my work, who
, when I make a creativedecision, they're like ah yes,
we like that let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
As is you.
You're saying, you say thatagain, as is me.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
And also the technicians in the space too,
the men who does pull the cable,who bring the cameras who bring
the lights Plenty of people tomake it happen, conrad and them,
and switch on the generators.
Yeah the crew.
Many men was on crew.
We have to take care of them.
Of course, and my mother Alwaystold me Make sure you feed

(01:35:32):
people.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:32):
Because I know when I don't eat as I want.
Yeah, I mean, there's a viralclip Of me that comes around
Every year, of me With a bigfrill Throwing a man clothes
Over a barn Called Rene DivinaCharles and there's a line in it
that she says I ain't self eatbreakfast yet and I had to deal
with you my blood sugar is low.
That is a line that really camefrom my life that's real life

(01:35:56):
that's real.
That was an improv scene and wewas there and we was in Lavantie
and we was making this thingand we decide we have a free day
, let's make something for fun,and that is one of the things
people listen to Most common.
Ask me.
They ask me you used to be onGael.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
They ask me that and they ask me you used to kill who
threw the boy clothes over thepan?
Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
Yeah, it's because you was hungry.
You'll be starting tounderstand.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
I didn't have breakfast, so that's why now you
have to feed people, you haveto take care of them.
I take care of my lesson.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
You have to make sure people reach home safely.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Yeah, it's important and you have to make sure that
you left the space better thanyou found it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Yeah, receive that.
And you also, as you say, youhave to make sure you ain't take
the shot, because it's not justyou taking the shot, it's
everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
Everybody.
It's everybody.
Everybody had to take the shot.
When you take it, it'severybody.
So because I understand thatfrom all the experience that
I've had working in front of thecamera, on the stage and behind
the scenes, I make a holisticdecision where I know everybody
will benefit from it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
I appreciate it.
I appreciate that that actuallysprang into question now.
You said you had to do more, soyou said you have something
coming up in September.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
Yes, in September, belmont Freetown Cultural Arts
and Folk Performing Company hasCultural Explosion 5.
This is the fifth year and thisyear we're doing A Wondrous
Odyssey.
We're taking folks on a journeythrough our catalogue as well
as the inspirations that havelent to trinidad being what it

(01:37:25):
is.
So we're going from beforeenslavement to now.
That's what we, that's the,that's the journey that we take
and with the work, so it'sdancing, it's singing one thing
for me to be uneasy in my seatagain.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
No, no, no, this is.

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
This is actually a showcase for Belmont Freetown
and so that every year they havethis show and it really is an
amalgamation of all the greatthings that the group does.
So it's dance, it's folk dance.
It's Miss Christine Tamatidoing Monolog again this year
Last year I did a flag woman.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
Yeah, let me talk about that flag, flag woman.
I'm glad you bring me there.
I'm glad you bring me there.
Let me talk about that nowbecause Franco Phillip, let me
say this to Franco one time noreaction, but I mean, you never
know she say, if you're on thisjourney you have to talk to
Taika.
I say, franco, I'll get it done.
So I look up Taika.

(01:38:23):
She sent me some info.
The first thing she sent me isthat flag woman and when I see
it I say, all right, Iunderstand why.
And then when I came to Poison,I say right, I understand why.
But I feel I only understandtoday and I'll continue to
understand it.
It's critical, but that flagwoman or something else you on
that stage, for people whohaven't seen it is maybe you
should talk about it better thanme.

(01:38:43):
But what I saw was youexplaining to people what a flag
woman is to.
And you know, what keptcatching me in the video is, I
mean, the flag was a beautifulthing having it flowing that way
.
I was like this woman's beendoing this.
And then you see you had toshow the people a logo and I'm
in marketing.
So I see I do marketing for aliving.
Just want to understand whatwas that?

(01:39:05):
What was it exactly so?

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
that's on the same thing that Sprang was reading.
Right.
That's from 2010.
Mm-hmm, and took that, tookpieces of it because it's a
two-hander, and formed it intothis monologue Right.
So I was playing the lead,Lorna.
Right.
And I've always been fascinatedwith the flag men and flag women

(01:39:27):
, like as a child sitting downin All-Star Spaniard on a school
night with my mom to takepictures falling in love with
the flag women Right.
Being like this is a real vibe.
And then asking questions againand talking and engaging in
community and um, meeting theblack man from starlet fun.

(01:39:50):
Yeah, um, I write this pieceand I write this piece with all
these stories put together andperforming lona is.
It was very, um, physicallychallenging, but it last year
was the most in my body.
I felt in a very long timebecause I was rehearsing with

(01:40:12):
Belmont all the time, rehearsingabout BFD, every week, going,
going, going.
But just to take all theseexperiences and all the
knowledge from all the spacesthat I would have gotten it and
to put it together and to belike, yeah, all they're coming
in the queens, all they bring noflag to reuse.
How you gonna learn how to weara flag?

(01:40:33):
All right, okay, well, you gobring your flag tomorrow, but
before we have to learn, this isthe movement.
Swoop dance, this is themovement, right?
This is how you hold the flag.
You cannot hold it willy-willy.
Okay, look at it.
Vai ki vai.
You have to hold it properly,because when the breeze takes
you on the Savannah stage, youcan fall off.

(01:40:55):
That's a real talk, if you knowwhat you're doing, the breeze
will pick you up and carry you.
You have to know you.
You don't know, you don't mindyour business.
It's not a whiner gilding.
This is not a star gilding.
She is originally the flagwoman artist, the Germans, who
was in the barrack yard, whoknow where to pass, how to pass,
when to pass, where not to gowhen you go to war.

(01:41:16):
The men in the front is theflag bearers.
They have this sigil you have tosee if this is friendly fire or
if this is the enemy, you haveto hold your flag up.
You kind of drag the flag outand make sure we know what
bandit is coming down the road,like he's saying about it
invaders coming on right, tokyocoming on the next time.

(01:41:37):
How we know is that because theflag woman in front, she waving
, she thinks she you know whatban is what and I think you know
.
In doing the piece and sharingand I think I think people
thought I really is a well, youare a real story so wait a
minute, what you telling me isthat that wasn't actually.

Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
You was just showing people what to do.
That is what that was.
Oh, really, yeah, let me finish.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
I feel finished it's, it's performance, it is a
character, it is.
You know, the script is written.
I mean it's a play, but this isreally.
It really is Lorna teachingGertie which is the second
character.
How?
To wave the flag, but it's justme at BFT doing drama right now

(01:42:23):
.
So I was like Miss Christinewas like she want a monologue
and I turned dialogue intomonologue and so my audience now
is who I'm teaching.
I am with you and that is how weget that clip, which have what
30 something thousand views orsomething.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
Is this Swoop?
How is it going?
It's not Swoop, swoopop, dance,wave and push.
That's why I remember how closeam I swoop dive, move and dance
all right gotcha yeah becauseyou gotta bring it from here.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Swoop, so, swoop, dive, and then you move it this
way and then you dance.
That's your movement.
That's your movement becauseyou're not just here moving.
Yeah, I don't think so.
If they let me hear that flagon the stage as well, I'll break
loose on it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:03):
Be sure to take me.
Yeah, I mean, and and that'syour movement, because they're
not just here, that's moving.
Yeah, but I think so.
If they let go of me with thatflag on the stage, it's all hell
break loose and it brings show.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
To take me yeah, I mean and that's also part of the
job too which is the culturalheritage, our intangible
cultural heritage is veryimportant for us to document for
us to hold on to, because youknow, between the Chinese and
whoever else, they're going totake it and call it their own,
of course.

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
They do the same thing with the pan, so why would
they?

Speaker 1 (01:43:27):
do anything else, you know.
So, yeah, I mean it is a joy tobe able to create and to make
things that I feel verypassionate about.
I mean alone, it's just onedrop.
Poison is just one drop, likeit's got plenty of things in the
audience.

Speaker 2 (01:43:44):
I'm sure.
Well, you tell me.
You start by telling me a realthing on the shelf yeah, it have
thing on the shelf.

Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
It have thing on the shelf.
It have things that haven'tcome yet.
It have stuff that leave poisonand start to work on.
Of course there's notebooksthat I have thing.
You know, I'm travelling in thenext few weeks and it's like I
I have to decide which notebookto take.
I'm sure Am I taking a freshnotebook, am I taking one that
has things in it already,because then I can't go too
overweight.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Well, you're coming with a notebook too, isn't it?
You're coming with a notebooktoo so I'm interested in finding
out.
But thanks a million.
I appreciate you coming.
I appreciate the fact thatyou're taking the angle that you
take.
Yeah, I think it's important,you, that tiger and that pioneer
name, you're living up to it.
And so I mean, I guess, as yousay, you're born doing it.
Yeah, you're born taking thatlead, so continue to do it.
And again, this space is openanytime I appreciate it wherever

(01:44:32):
you have going on, I I want tolearn more about it and see more
of it.
I'm going to be in moreuncomfortable seats.
I'm showing things they'redoing, but I feel it's important
for the society.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
We had to feel a little more uncomfortable with
some of these topics yeah,because when you feel
uncomfortable, you make change,you go, work through it, you go
work through it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
So I appreciate you, conrad.
I just think I'll stop pressingit.
Hit the stop button, thank you.

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Episode 239 | Tyler Giselle Phillip

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 239 | Tyler Giselle Phillip