May 7, 2025 • 41 mins
John Randolph dives deep into a discussion on reshaping the public accounting space with Chris Williams, owner and CEO of System Six, on Episode 68 of CPA Life. A remote, cloud-based accounting firm, System Six’s culture-driven, employee-focused environment serves as a model for balancing employees' professional growth with their personal lives. They delve into the dynamics of private equity in professional services and as someone with a finance background, Chris has a unique perspective on the firm’s strategy for growth through both organic methods and strategic acquisitions. Ultimately, the episode underscores the importance of adapting management practices for a remote workforce in order to maintain employee satisfaction and client retention.
Get the full show notes and more resources at CPALifePodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life wherewe taught culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in
an industry that has been stuck witha, we've always done it that way.
Mindset.
For far too long, join host John Randolph.
And learn how a sustainablefamily friendly career in public
accounting doesn't have tobe the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
Hey everybody.
Thanks for joining us for anotherepisode of the CPALifePodcast.com, where we spotlight firm leaders and
industry insiders who are passionateabout making some much needed changes.
To the industry in public accounting andadvisory and outsourced accounting, where we're creating more of a culture-driven,
(00:47):
employee-focused firm firms where peopledon't have to sacrifice their lives at the
T alter of their job to build a career andalso have an amazing life outside of work.
And today we are joined by ChrisWilliams, who is the owner and CEO
of System Six, a modern remote,cloud-based finance and accounting firm.
Chris, welcome to the show.
Awesome, John, thanksso much for having me.
(01:08):
Well said.
You know, we really believe here at SystemSix that accounting can be a great place to work, and it's our job to, you know,
create and build that environment so thatour team members can love what they do.
Have joy, have flexibility, andhave time for a family as well.
Something that I think isfallen by the wayside in, in the accounting space for far too long.
Yeah.
Well,
it's starting to change.
It feels like we're startingto change, which is good.
(01:29):
There, there's a little bit ofa ripple effect, and I'm like
you I'm starting to see more of acurrent pull in that direction.
You know, one of the things that welike to do before we jump into the meat
of things is give folks a little bitof a snapshot of your career track.
Where you went to college, howyou ended up kind of where you are today as a CEO of System Six.
So give us a little bit of whathas brought you down this path.
(01:52):
Yeah.
You don't wanna go straightto debits and credits.
Not too much.
We won't touch that.
You'll lose.
Yeah, you'll lose me really fast.
I could speak to it as a businessowner, but not as a person doing it.
Me too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thanks again for having me.
So my quick background, and I laughabout debits and credits, because my expertise taps out quickly there.
(02:12):
I'm actually not an accountant.
I came to System Six kind ofreally through business ownership.
So before System Six, I hadspent seven years working in more traditional finance roles.
Out of undergrad, I worked at aninvestment bank, and then I spent a couple years working at a big
investment firm and then went backto graduate school to get my MBA.
(02:34):
And you know, while I wasthere I was exploring.
I really enjoyed my time in investing,sort of big finance, but recognized I wanted to be closer to the results, closer
to, you know, feeling like my time, myaction was really making changes quickly
and whatever I was doing, you know, and Iwas part of a large organization before.
Nothing against it but hard to havethat happen when you're in a big company.
(02:54):
Yep.
So, you know, I was thinking about startupor I was thinking about, you know, going
to join in an operations role at a mediumsized company, and then I found this path.
It's becoming increasingly popular,which is basically go look for a small business to buy yourself or with some
investors and then take it over kindof, first off, try to stabilize and make sure there's no choppiness in transition.
(03:17):
You know, you're generally buyingthe business from an owner that
wants to retire, you know, andthen six, 12 months later kind of.
Really start to try andbring your energy to it.
Try and grow it, try and improve it.
That's really the shortstory of System Six.
You know, I spent about a year lookingfor a good small business to buy in sort of the financial services space,
(03:37):
because that was my background, stumbledupon outsourced accounting as sort of
a business line that I thought was veryinteresting for a lot of reasons and.
There was a sales job built a listof about 30 firms that looked to be between 10 and 50 employees.
That would be kind of thesize for me to start at.
Sent Jeremy, who's the owner ofSystem Six, a cold email in like probably October, 2020, and.
(04:00):
Nine months later, myself, a couple ofinvestors, you know, bought the business
and three and a half years later we'restill going strong, believe it or not.
Well I would say going strong isa little bit of an understatement.
'cause you guys are not only growingand doing it well, but I gotta tell you, one of the things that we built.
Our business around on the recruitingside of the house is really partnering with firms that are passionate about
(04:25):
creating workplaces for their people,where they're really bucking the trend of the century old grinding mindset
that's existed in this industry since Godcreated rocks and yeah, you know when we initially spoke a few months back.
One of the things that really resonatedwith me was a tagline that I saw, and I don't remember if it's on LinkedIn or on
your website, but I grabbed that and Ithrew it in our client file with you guys.
(04:49):
Yeah, and I pull it into a note thatI wanna read real quick, because I think that this really is, it's an
aspiration I think more firms shouldhave that they're trying to do.
It says System Six is a modern, remote,cloud-based finance and accounting firm focused on two equal passions:
Providing dream accounting careers toour team members and freeing up our customers time so they can focus on their
(05:10):
business, their family, their nonprofit,or whatever their interests lie.
I. Tell me what that means toyou, because that is not something
that you would typically hearfrom an accounting firm leader.
Whether that accounting firm is anoutsourced bookkeeping firm, accounting
firm, or a traditional CPA firm, that'sjust not something that you hear a lot.
Yeah, well, well, you know,I gotta give some credit.
(05:31):
First, I think, you know, in a lot ofways, you know, System Six was started in 2008 when I got here in 2021.
You know, a lot of thatfoundation already existed.
You know, the firm wasalready fully remote.
Most of our team members kind ofchoose the hours they wanna work.
Do you want 30 hours?
Do you want 35?
Do you want 25?
You know, we can flex up and down, notevery month, but you know, throughout your time here at System Six.
(05:55):
So a lot of that ethoswas already here, I think.
I've worked hard to sort of call itout and just vocalize it more, but I think really what it means is, yeah,
I really think about our business in alot of ways is kinda like a marketplace.
You know, customers come to us and atthe end of the day, you know, we can
all talk about, we're productizingaccounting, we're using technology, but I.
(06:18):
They're still really, you know,buying time from our team members.
That's what professional services is asmuch absolutely as we've got workflow, automation, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, all right, so thenyou realize, okay, well our product is really our people's time.
So how do you deliver the best product?
Well, you gotta havegood people, of course.
(06:39):
But then for them to deliver their timewell, they have to be in a good spot.
Yep.
And that's really whatit all comes down to, is.
If our people aren't in a goodspot, they're not gonna put in the
extra effort, they're not gonnabe extra friendly on the call.
Then kind of the wholemarketplace crumbles.
So when you really think about,I think, look, obviously the customer is super important.
(07:00):
We don't exist without thecustomer, without the client.
But you know, in some ways I thinkthis kind of mindset of client first.
Client.
First.
Client first.
24 7 actually ultimately doesn'tserve the client well because
then you grind your people becauseevery client email is urgent.
Every client needs to beresponded to immediately.
And then your people start to leave.
And then your clientsuffers from people churn.
(07:21):
So when you really start to think, andwe tell clients this Hey, we're a people first firm, and you know, we have a 24
hour response policy, and that's good foryou because it means you're not gonna have to deal with a bunch of churn because.
We let you burn accountantsand bookkeepers out.
So yeah, I mean really what that, thatwhole statement means ultimately to us is I know that our product is our people.
(07:43):
We have to put them first.
And not every person needs the exact samething on your team, so you gotta know.
We got some grinders and let 'em grind.
You know what?
They wanna work 45 hours, go for it.
Right?
But we also got a ton of momsand dads that, you know, can get off and go to soccer practice.
And so let's scope their kind ofemployment to meet their needs.
You know, some people are on salary, somepeople are on hourly and have preferences.
(08:07):
So that's really intentionallyin that statement.
The people part comes firstbecause, you know, we really do try to start with the people.
And then, yeah.
The other thing I've just realizedwith the clients is, you know,
I always thought, hey, everyclient's gonna want CFO advisory.
They're gonna want, you know, a fancymodel on how they can grow their business 20% in a year for the next five years.
(08:29):
Some don't.
Some are like, Hey, Igot a great business.
I just wanna make sure my payroll's done.
You guys do my bookkeeping 'cause Iwanna go spend time doing X, Y, Z. And so again, like you know, you gotta
meet your team where they are and yougotta meet your client where they are.
Be willing to kind ofbe custom a little bit.
We don't have to do the exactsame thing for every client.
It's interesting you say that 'causethat's, you know, one of the things that we constantly talk about in, in our
(08:52):
business is not every employee, not everycandidate that we talk to is a superstar.
We're gonna have people that, youknow, that the way that I was put it with our staffs, you know, we're
going to have employees or employersthat may not have a great opportunity.
In fact, the reasonthat job may be open is.
You know, Joe died at his desk last weekafter being with the firm for 32 years.
While we may look at that and go,man, there is no way I'd ever do that.
(09:15):
Inevitably we are goingto talk to somebody.
That's when we ask them what they want.
They're gonna say, man,I'd like a company.
I can work at 30 years and die at my desk.
Yeah.
There are people out there likethat, and I think that in the world that we live in today, the one size
fits all model that I think businesswas built around for decades.
I think I can safely say postcovid has drastically changed.
(09:39):
And leaders like you, regardless ofthe industry leaders like you and others that we talked to, that get,
that I think are going to continuallybe able to attract better talent.
Yep.
Because you've got an environment thatsays, Hey, what works for Bill may
not work for Sally, what may not workfor Jim, what may not work for Jill.
Yeah.
And then it's just our job to knowreally well, you know, our people's
(09:59):
skill sets, their desires, and kind of,you know, match that in the marketplace.
Against the client that we havecoming in, and we go through that.
You know, when we get a new client, we,you know, sign 3, 4, 5 new clients a
month and we know some are gonna be agood fit for this team and some aren't.
I mean, sometimes we'll move clientswithin System Six we've been serving this client for three years.
(10:20):
There's been a little bit ofpersonality damage over time.
You know, let's justmove it to a new team.
Let's hit reset.
And again, like not everything,just because one team.
Didn't enjoy serving them anymore afterthree years doesn't mean that another team can't do great serving them.
It's nothing bad about that team.
It's just, hey, you know, timefor a little bit of a reset.
So, yeah, I think, you know, yougotta have systems around it so you don't get completely unwieldy.
(10:44):
We can't have a hundred peoplehere doing a hundred completely different things, but Right.
Having some level of flexibility, Ithink allows a variety of employees
to find their definition of joy,their definition of flexibility here.
You know, that's one thing.
I think we, we had some hiringchallenges maybe 18 months ago, and one of the big takeaway from that was.
(11:04):
You know, a great workplace can meandifferent things to different people, and you gotta make sure you identify
during the hiring process what theirdefinition of a great workplace is, and then make sure that what we are matches.
Yeah.
I think that in the marketplace I.Today, especially that the leader that can somehow balance the act of, for lack
(11:28):
of a better way to put it, creating apsychologically diverse enough business.
Yeah.
That every single person thinks thatthis business was built for them.
Yeah.
But still maintaining some semblanceof connectivity throughout.
It is the leader that's goingto win more times than not.
We're trying, easier saidthan done, but we're trying.
It really is, and especially likeyou guys, you're a fully remote firm.
(11:51):
Yep.
You've got people from coast to coast.
Yep.
And obviously the drivers of somebodypossibly sitting in the northeast may
be very different than the drivers ofsomebody sitting in southern California.
Yeah.
And you know, same thing with clients.
And sometimes again, it's just about.
Knowing expectations.
Our salesperson, he records everysales call and you know, our delivery
(12:15):
team gets to review 'em beforepotentially assigning it to the right.
You know, 'cause yeah, sometimesthere's personality differences or you gotta pay attention to time zone.
You know, he's a works in a business onthe East coast that needs to be able to talk with us in the morning sometimes.
Well then we gotta make sure wedon't put a West Coast team on him.
You know, again, I think itdoes like being fully remote, having this ethos of flexibility.
(12:36):
I. For sure creates challenges.
And it creates moreoperational complexity.
But I'd rather deal with those coupleof challenges here and there because
it allows me to just, it's so hard tofind good accountants, as you know.
So if I can be way more flexiblein what I'm able to hire, oh, you only wanna work 25 hours?
(12:57):
Like great.
We can find a way to make that work.
You wanna work three daysa week because you and your husband split childcare great.
We can find a way to make that work.
It's hard, it takes extra work, butI'd still rather hire that person for 25 hours or three days a week and do
a little bit of extra work to sort ofmake it work than not hire them and keep searching for another two months.
(13:20):
Yep.
When you find a good person,how can we make it work?
And you have to be kind of aflexible organization to do that.
Yeah.
I think it calls for a little bit morework on you as a leader or even on
your leadership team when you look atsituations and say, okay, the easy answer
yep.
Is this person for 40 hours a week.
Yep.
That's the easy answer.
(13:42):
Nine to five.
But maybe a better answeris these two people at.
25 hours a week and 15 hours a
week.
Yeah.
And you know, look, it's what we'vefound and we've had to communicate is
not every single decision that we makedoes our team get to quote unquote win.
You know you know, talk a lot about, wewant this to be a great place to work.
(14:04):
So that means if we have a pain inthe *** client, like generally we're
gonna talk to the client and if theydon't get better, we'll let them go.
But you know, we also havequarterly goals of how much churn we're gonna have every quarter.
And so if we're in a quarter where,hey, maybe we had a couple more clients roll off than we expected, then Hey,
I know you wanna fire this clientright now, but like gimme a few months.
(14:25):
You have to communicate with your teamlike, Hey, you don't always get to do everything that you want, but Right.
Just know over time we'rebending towards that.
Like we're generally landing on the sideof what the employee wants, you know?
This client's too hard for me to serve.
I'm over my skis.
Okay, great.
It's gonna take us a couplemonths to get that off your plate.
So bear with us, you know?
Yep.
You know, but that's sometimes been achallenge internally, people are like, well, I thought we were, you know, a
(14:49):
people first firm, and why are you makingme do this for a couple more months?
And the answer is, look, not everysingle thing can go that way.
We got a broader business to thinkabout, but I. I just think in general,
you know, deciding things, peoplefirst will really pay off for folks.
Talk to me about the growth of the firm.
'cause I know that you guys have beenprevious to this year and are still on a path of growth through acquisition.
(15:13):
I mean, organic growth.
Yeah.
But if the right partner comes up,there's a potential for acquisition.
So talk to me about kind of what has beenattractive to you through that process of the firms that you've acquired.
Yeah.
And what do you guys typicallylook at moving forward?
Yeah, so I mean, look, I don't wantto gloss over what you said, which is organic is still super important.
You know, we grew from, call it two anda half million in revenue to about five sort of organically, and then since then
(15:39):
we've started to, you know, I was doing alot of biz dev, a lot of the sales, so we
didn't have time to really do acquisitionsuntil over the last six, nine months.
Obviously, you know, I bought SystemSix, so that was kind of acquisition one.
Our goal is really we want tocontinue to grow organically, but then also do strategic acquisitions.
(16:00):
We're not, you know, trying tobuy 20 firms a year, like some of these large private equity players.
What we're looking for right noware, it's kind of two different types of acquisition opportunities.
It's one, either a firm that's justso similar to ours that it's just gonna be very easy for us to fold in.
(16:20):
Meaning, you know, similarculture, fully remote, Karbon as their practice management system.
So we bought one a couple monthsago and it was exactly that.
It was, you know, I'd been introducedpersonally to the owner, had a level of trust with her, you know, a bunch of
references I could kind of backgroundcheck on her and recognized as a good person, exact same tech stack as us.
(16:44):
Similar sized clients, similarculture and yeah, like acquiring
firms can be a nice, you know,financial way to grow your business.
You get more cash flow to reinvestback in sales and marketing.
So I'll look at those kindof easy, just put 'em into System Six firms all day long.
Kind of plug and play.
Yeah.
The most important things there are likesimilarity of tech stack, similarity of culture, meaning it's gotta be remote.
(17:09):
They've got some flexibilityin the organization.
You know, of course we look at financials,but I think that one thing that gets
overlooked, probably the most importantnumber for us is customer retention.
You know, we just need to see ahistory of customers sticking around, you know, 'cause especially if the
owner's gonna leave, we need to knowtheir, they're sticky customers.
So that's kind of one, you know,we're looking at another one right now like that, you know, we're 40 people.
(17:31):
The last one we bought was.
Four or five.
This one is seven or eight people.
So kind of these smallteams that we can roll in.
And then the second opportunitythat we spend time on are, you know, I have a vision.
I wanna become sort of a one-stop shop ofprofessional services to small businesses.
So acquisitions with a new service line.
So we don't do taxes rightnow, we want to get into tax.
(17:54):
So we're looking at a firm thatdoes tax or acquisitions that.
Maybe their tech stack or theirculture isn't exactly the same, but they're like experts in Yeah.
CFO tax or they're experts in, we'relooking at one that's got law firms, all they do is serve law firm clients.
So, you know, interesting.
It's gonna be a little harderto integrate those, but they bring something different to the table.
(18:19):
That's valuable.
A brand and expertise in a end market thatwe think is attractive small law firms,
I'm willing to do more integration workthere, even if they're not on Karbon.
You know, because I think it'sa better sort of, I'm getting something else in return, right?
You know, which is this marketpresence or buying a tax firm that's
(18:41):
gonna be more complicated than justbuying a small bookkeeping practice.
But then all a sudden they get taxed.
So it's if it's not a clean,easy integration, it's gotta come with something else.
Yeah.
So those are kind of the two differentflavors of acquisitions we'll look at.
And we'll try to do another probablyone to three this year and you know, a
couple more next year and it's, 'causethere's a lot of great firms out there.
(19:05):
You said something a minute ago thatI've kind of held onto in the back of my head and I completely forgot about you.
Bring an interesting perspective tothe table in regards to private equity.
In this space, because you're in thisspace now, but you've also played on the private equity side of things.
What is your take?
What are your thoughts?
Good, bad, indifferent, little ofboth on the move of private equity into the professional services space.
(19:30):
Yeah.
And what you've seen.
Lots of thoughts.
I think the first thing to remember is.
Look, everyone has seen the badstories about private equity, you know, wall Street Journal, whatever.
There's plenty of examples out there.
Yeah, we where private equityhas done harm to a business.
But let's not forget that regular businessowners have done harm to businesses too.
You know you can lookat any type of business.
(19:54):
Ownership, whether it's corporate, youknow, or the stock market or private equity or you know, friends and family
and there are examples of folks thathave made bad decisions that, you know,
led to businesses going under or havingto fire a bunch of people or whatever.
So, you know, that's not meant tocompletely absolve private equity of
some of the challenges that happen,but it's just, that's kind of comment.
One, make no mistake about it,that if you're an accounting firm
(20:19):
and you come under private equityownership, it's gonna get more intense.
You know, they're gonnapush you to grow faster.
They're gonna push youto drive profitability.
They might ask you to lay off some folksthat maybe aren't that efficient or aren't contributing, but you know, they're
not stupid where they're gonna come inand just, especially in a professional
services firm, and fire all the deliveryfolks they understand that the delivery.
(20:42):
You know, in the IT or whatever,like they play a mission critical
part of the business and youcan't just let 'em all go.
So, you know, I think it's,yeah, expect if you know, private
equity, ownership, you know, in someways you give 'em credit for it.
No one's questioning what they'resolving for, you know, they're
solving for the best financialoutcome for the business as possible.
(21:04):
And so, yeah, of course thatmeans that they're gonna, yeah.
Are they gonna maybe serveyour client less well?
'cause they're gonnamake you charge more for.
That one off random hourly project thatbefore you used to just do for your client, be like, well, I really like Bill.
Like I'll just do that for him.
I won't bill him for it.
Right.
Yeah.
You're gonna have to bill for thatnow under pe and sure, maybe it's not as nice to bill, but the reality
(21:25):
is if you're not charging bill forthat work, it means your team's not getting paid in one way or another.
So it's clear what they're drivingfor, but I don't think that it's
bad to be driving for like morefinancial efficiency in your business.
Yep.
And then I also think that look, there's.
Not so much in our world, but in themore traditional partnership world, I think they are helping solve a
(21:47):
real problem, which is you get allthese partners who wanna get bought
out and the next generation doesn'thave the means or doesn't want to.
So they're, you know, bringinga solution to that issue.
Yep.
So I'm generally like, I'm okay with it.
I think yes.
There will be some stories ofexamples of PE doing things that are very bottom line focused, but.
(22:10):
That's their model.
And if you don't like it, you don't haveto, you know, go do a deal with them.
Yeah.
It's just kind of purecapitalism is what it is.
Yeah.
I think that there's a piece of theindustry, I think you touched on it by your answer just there a little
bit that we've created the situationthat we're in, because there is a lot of people that are looking at.
What is the exit strategy?
(22:31):
I mean, I've got two clients thatwe worked with here locally that they had built their exit strategy
around a couple of people in theirfirm, potentially buying their firm.
Yeah.
And that didn't happen.
One passed away during Covid,another one decided to be a stay-at-home parent right after Covid.
And two other people they hired sinceCovid to kind of be those people moved on.
Not everybody wants to take outa big loan to buy a business.
(22:53):
Yeah.
And so they ended up.
Merging into another firm thathas now sold to private equity.
So you've gotta do what yougotta do to take care of things.
But I think that you're right.
You know, when you make the decisionto sign on the dotted line, you know what you're getting into.
Yeah.
It's not like the writingis not on the wall.
Yeah.
And I think, look, there's also, youknow, fabulous stories of success where they come in, you know, they're gonna.
(23:19):
Put some capital on the table, it'llgo make a couple hires, you know, that the old partners didn't wanna make
'cause they were afraid to cut theirtake home and they're gonna, you know, a lot of these private equity firms are
doing this roll up thing where they'rebuying all these small firms and.
Putting 'em together and now all ofa sudden you're part of a hundred million dollar firm and you have access
to, you know, an offshore team, or youhave access to a sales and marketing
(23:39):
function that you never had when youwere, you know, a 30 person shop.
So I tend to think there's gonnabe a lot of success stories.
There's gonna be some negative ones,but you could say the same about.
Accounting firms before pe therewere some great places to work and there were some bad places to work.
Yep.
And I think that, you know, frompersonal experience, private equity
made a move into the recruiting,talent management staffing industry.
(24:02):
Yep.
25, 30 years ago.
And that's about the timeI started my career in it.
And I didn't know anything aboutprivate equity when I started in it.
All I knew was the firm I was with.
Use private equity money to doa rollup of their franchises.
Yep.
Had no idea what thatmeant as a 26-year-old kid.
Yeah.
All I knew was I started realizingpeople were being let go that weren't being let go before.
(24:24):
Yeah.
And from a performer perspective, what Iquickly realized is there's this list that came out monthly of performers and usually
everybody from about the middle downwere the people that were being let go.
So.
My job, in my mind became real simple.
I need to stay above the middle line.
Yeah.
And as close to the top ofthat board as I can get to not have to worry about anything.
(24:47):
And you know you'll probably get rewarded'cause there's less kind of, you know,
a lot of the people that are draggingthings down aren't around, you know.
Yeah.
Look I mean, I think there's abroader conversation around that's, you know, way above my pay grade of.
Should every business be run with,you know, that kind of absolute bottom line mentality and how does Yeah.
(25:10):
When you no longer have the localaccounting firm that's like doing
extra work pro bono, you know, just'cause they're friends with folks like.
Is there something more broadly that's abad thing when you kind of lose that type
of service provider in the ecosystem andeverything becomes bottom line oriented.
But that's I tend to notthink that's a huge issue.
(25:31):
But I think there is a conversation onecan have there, but you know, beyond me.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
That's a little bit outsideof the scope of Yeah.
I think what I've been called to do.
Yeah.
One of the things that I. Haverespected about your firm since we started working together and talking
and even looking back the legacy andtalking to some people after we started working together about your firm.
(25:52):
You guys have alwaysbeen a remote culture.
Yep.
I wanna talk a little bit aboutthat because that still is in 2025.
It's still a hot button topic.
Do we or don't we, shouldwe or shouldn't we?
What about collaboration?
What about culture?
All of those things.
You guys have built a successfulteam with solid retention.
Good people.
(26:13):
Completely remote.
Yeah.
Tell me what the keys to thatsuccess, in your opinion, have been in building a remote business?
Yeah.
I think the first thing is andit sounds obvious, but you can't try to be a, an in-person firm.
You know when there's an urgent thing andif you're in the office, you can walk down the hall and knock on somebody's door.
Like we don't have that luxury.
(26:35):
Sure, I can message someone on teams, but.
I have to know that if they're not thereand they're not responding, that's part of our kind of agreement with our team
is look, you know, if you need to stepout at 2:00 PM to go pick up your kid we're not asking you to tell somebody,
and we don't expect you to respond toevery single thing within 30 minutes.
(26:56):
So you, you have to be, you know,willing to like, let things sometimes
move a little more slowly becauseyou're just not in the office together.
So, yeah, if you feel like you need to be.
The fastest team in the world and themost collaborative team in the world.
Yeah, that might need to be in the office.
Like you can't replicatesome of that stuff.
(27:16):
But then you have all the negativesof being in the office, which
is, it's so hard to recruit, youknow, costs, et cetera, et cetera.
So that's kind of thing one,like you're not in the office.
I think to think two, trust has to beobviously paramount in the organization.
It's one of our core values, butI think it's not just oh, we trust you to get your work done.
Also, you need to instill in youremployees that they can trust
(27:37):
you as the leadership to speakup when they're having issues.
Because if you're in the office,you can tell when someone's overloaded, when they're stressed.
You know, we can't tellthat remotely as well.
So I'm hammering all the timeand all hands, whatever, you know, my door's always open.
If you have anything you'reconcerned about, bring it up.
We'll handle it the right way because.
(27:59):
Our employees need to trust us thatthey can bring stuff to us so that
we know what's going on and we know,you know, how we can help them.
You know?
And then the last thing I would say,try to find ways to get together.
Like we do an annual retreat.
There's no PowerPoint.
It's no like strategy.
It's just pick a city in the middleof the country, fly everyone there for the weekend, have fun together.
(28:21):
Yeah, it costs money.
But that's very effective way to buildrapport and friendship between people.
You know, I travel for conferences.
If I'm in a city, I'll try and host adinner if there's team members there.
So again, you know, you're not gonnahave the same level of relationship
you have with people if you see'em in the office every day.
But you can do little things.
So that's kind of theway I think about it.
(28:41):
It's first, you know, youjust, you're not in the office.
You can't think that yourun an in office firm.
You can't have the sameexpectations, create trust, and then spend time together.
I think that first thing that you justsaid is critical, and I never really thought about it that way, but I. There's
so many things that we do as leadersthat have just been that's what we do.
That's how we do it, becausethat's how we've always done it.
(29:03):
'cause we've been in an officeand a lot of those things don't
translate or transition to aremote setting extremely well.
Yeah.
I mean I find all the timeof I'll send someone a message at, you know, 4:00 PM their time.
They'll be like, Hey, by the way,no need to respond to this today.
Get back to me tomorrow if you need,you know, just that's not my nature.
(29:24):
You know, I'm fast moving and I've comefrom jobs where you didn't get that
luxury, but it's you gotta remember,it's a different arrangement now.
Right.
And you know, that goes a long way.
Yeah.
And I think that having thatgrace and that understanding that,
hey, not everybody is plugged ina hundred percent of the time.
I'm not plugged in ahundred percent of the time.
And just that I think there's somethingfreeing individually as a person, but then
(29:48):
also to your clients to let them know,hey, it's not gonna be instantaneous.
Yeah.
Which at the end of the day, ifwe roll the clock back to eighties and nineties, that's kind of how
we did business, even though wewere sitting in an office together.
Yeah.
It wasn't like thingshappened instantaneously.
They just didn't,
we've gotten our agreements withour clients, you know, you know, next day business response policy.
(30:11):
And you know, we've had some clientsthat get real big and they get to the point where they're like, I
need to be able to hear back frommy bookkeeping team the same day.
And we say, great.
That's just not us.
And then we, you know, part ways.
Friendly together.
Yeah, and I think that's somethingthat I'm sure your people love about the way that you run the
business, and that's just a corevalue that's important to you guys.
(30:34):
I think that the word thatcontinually comes to mind as we're sitting here talking about
this in my head is intentionalityfrom a leadership perspective.
You have to be intentionalabout those things.
They don't just happen.
Yep.
You know, look, it's not easy.
We had a big client that, you know, wehad to get a lot of stuff done and there
were some late nights over the lastsix weeks getting 'em ready for audit.
So it's not 24 7.
Right.
But again, like I said earlier, generallycan you know, err on the side of the
(30:59):
intentionality, the decision for yourteam, you know, it's kind of like.
We try to build a trust, well, in a lot ofways where it's like our team trusts that we're making the right decisions for them.
So when occasionally, like they gottasuck it up and hey, you know what?
We can't fire that client right now.
Or, Hey, I do need you towork a little late on this.
You know, as long as you'renot asking that all the time,
(31:19):
people will go above and beyondhere and there when you need it.
I completely agree.
I was ready to say, I don't thinkthat I've talked to a single
candidate ever since we have, youknow, 100% focused on this space.
I don't think I've ever talked to acandidate that was aligned in the sand.
I'm working 40 hours and that's it.
I'm not doing anything more.
Find me firm.
That's what they do, becausethat's just not a reality.
(31:41):
But what I have found is numerous people.
More times than not that are willing tosay, Hey, I'll do whatever I've gotta do.
But I'd rather that be theexception, not the rule.
Yep.
And that's exactly the culture we'retrying to create, which is, yeah,
the vast majority of the time it'sgonna be exactly what you want.
Occasionally you might have to stretch,but I. We're not gonna make it recurring.
(32:02):
And I'm sure that when you go out tomarket to find somebody that fits into a remote culture, you know, probably
90% of the people that you talk towhen you say remote are gonna raise their hand and say, I can do it.
I'm on it.
Sign me up.
But there's also probably behaviorsand idiosyncrasies that you look for through the interview process that give
you an indication of whether or not, oreven just looking at someone's resume
(32:24):
to give you an indication of whetheror not that person might be a good fit.
What have you found?
As a leader in a remote firm thattypically resonates with you guys
when you look for people that youthink could be successful in a remote
environment?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, candidly, andthis is a little maybe, you know, shortsighted, but like we don't like
to hire folks that haven't workedremotely yet, and unfortunately a lot of people now have that experience
(32:48):
from Covid, you know, 'cause we hireda couple of folks from earlier on, they
were remote for three months andthen they went back to the office.
So they only had a three month stintever being remote and come summer 2021, they're just like, I can't do this.
I miss an office.
So we look for that, you know,people that have worked remotely.
(33:09):
We look for people that have a dedicatedoffice space for their remote work, even if it's in a guest bedroom or something.
But oh, I'm gonna work formy kitchen table on the couch.
You know we've found that's a challenge.
So we like to make sure folks havea dedicated space and then obviously we're looking for, you know, the core
values, the traits that matter mostin a remote environment are like, you know, do you have accountability?
(33:33):
Do you have some drive?
Are you trustworthy person, you know,we just gotta stress test those harder
because Yeah, look, you know, ifsomeone wanted to melt the clock and.
Get paid and not do as much work.
Yeah, you can do it in a remoteenvironment a lot easier.
So we just, we have to make sure thatthe attributes right, the traits that
a person who doesn't do that has we,we make sure that's what we're hiring.
(33:54):
Yeah, and I'd say the last thing that,whether you're hiring remotely or not, I think one of the most important
things we do is we do blind references,you know, which is, hey, they're gonna give you, they're gonna give a
couple references of people they'veworked with, and those people are always gonna say nice things gonna.
List a reference.
Who's gonna on you?
Excuse me.
Right?
Yeah.
So what we do is we tell a candidate, Hey,you know, we're gonna reach out to some just random former coworkers of yours.
(34:20):
Is there anything we should be aware of?
Is there anyone we needto stick away from?
And that kind of threat, so to speak.
Sometimes we'll bubble up some stuff ofwell, my old boss hates me and here's why.
And then we do it.
We go call random folks, message'em on LinkedIn, and most of the time they have great things to say.
And occasionally you'll discoversomething and you're like, well, I'm glad I found out about that.
(34:41):
Yep.
So that's a mission criticalpart of our hiring process.
Yeah.
It's interesting you say that becauseone of the things that we always talk to candidates about, I don't care if it
is a big industry in a lot of firms anda lot of people, it's a small world.
And one of the things we'll always sayto candidates is, Hey look, I need to know what is the worst thing that my
client's gonna hear about you when hepicks the phone up and he calls your firm?
(35:02):
And let me make it very clear.
I'm not saying callingand checking a reference.
Yeah.
What I'm saying is there is ahigh likelihood he knows somebody,
that he knows Somebody at yourfirm that he went to school with.
He met at a conference.
Yep.
He's played golf with a few times and he'snot gonna call with a piece of paper in his hand saying formal reference check.
Yeah.
He's gonna make a call and say, Hey.
I have a question for you.
This is just me and you talking.
(35:23):
Tell me about Bill.
Yep.
Yep.
And I need to know what's theworst thing he's gonna hear.
Yep.
Because more times than not, those callsare made, especially in an industry like
you guys, where there's a lot of knowledgeof who is who in the marketplace.
Yep.
Yeah.
And look, we just hiredsomebody who identified to me.
Yeah.
Basically, my current boss is notgonna say nice things about me.
(35:47):
And here's why.
We had a good conversation and I talkedabout what could you have done better?
And we hired her.
You know because sometimes peoplework for bad bosses, sometimes people make mistakes and they learn from 'em.
So,
yep.
You know, no one's gotperfect references out there.
It's just about being transparent.
Yeah, I think that's a very valid point.
As you've grown the firm over thelast couple of years, what has
(36:10):
been key to you when you look atthe performance of your people?
When you look at just the overallapproach to the business that they take, what are the behaviors that
you typically look for in your peopledealing with customers, dealing with clients again, in a remote setting?
Yeah.
I mean, we track a lot of metrics.
(36:31):
You know, we pay a lot of attention toprobably three or four kind of categories.
One is I would say margin, you know,our kind of gross profit on clients, so you know, whether you're salary or salary
here we do track time and it's not becausewe're trying to hold you aggressively to a time clock, but it's because we
wanna make sure that we're getting paidenough for the work that we're doing.
(36:52):
'cause all of our clientsare on fixed fees.
So we look at margins pretty closelyevery month and that helps us identify.
If a team member needs toget more efficient, but more often than not, scopes change.
So we need to go get a price change donewith that customer and that ultimately means that team member will get paid more.
'cause everyone's got some versionof profit share on their clients.
So we look at that type of stuff a lot.
(37:14):
We look at customer retention.
We do quarterly check-in calls withmost of our customers from a sort of more senior person on the team.
So we're making sure that clients sort ofjust give us good feedback on those calls.
We do not do as often as we should.
Like a client survey, like that NPS surveyof, you know, rate us one through 10.
(37:35):
Yep.
And then internally we do aquarterly employee survey that's got some recurring questions.
You know, would you recommendSystem Six as a place to work?
Do you like your manager?
And then we've got some otherkind of questions that are changed in that survey every quarter.
So everyone gets a quarterlyperformance review.
So there's conversations that happenthere where team members get to vocalize.
(37:57):
Yeah.
As part of your performance review,you have to rank your manager and you
have to rank how you feel about yourcompensation, your workload, et cetera.
So just trying to get a lot of datapoints is the most important thing.
I don't think you have to overanalyzewhat questions you're asking.
It's just making sure you're getting.
In a remote environment, getting apulse check on people, I feel like at least once a quarter, you know,
(38:19):
how would you rate your job one tofive and just take a look at that.
You know, you can just start there.
So yeah, kind of like we paya lot of attention to margin profitability by client.
I. Customer success and thensort of team member happiness.
And I think it goes back to that, thatone simple word of intentionality.
Yeah.
Not just letting it happen.
Yeah.
I mean you can't just wait for your peopleto quit to know that they're not happy.
(38:42):
You know, like you, you gottado this ahead of time so then you can identify issues.
And if somebody quits and we'resurprised, that's like super frustrating.
You know, if someone quits 'cause we knowthey haven't been happy, you know, then.
Same thing with customers leaving us.
We don't want surprises.
We wanna know that they've beenfrustrated that we've tried.
Maybe we can't fix it,but surprises are no fun.
(39:05):
No, they're absolutely not.
What you and your team are continuingto build is something a lot of firm owners can definitely learn from.
So.
If there are leaders out there hearingwhat you're doing and they have questions about your overall business or even
possible candidates that are looking fora place like System Six to call home, what is the best way for people to contact you
(39:25):
or get in touch with you and just find outa little bit more about what you're doing?
I.
You know, a lot of my ideascame from folks sharing with me, so I'm happy to do the same.
Just email me, it's Chrisat System Six, like SIX, you know, spell out the number.com.
You can find me on LinkedIn as well.
But there's a lot of Chris Williamsout there, so chris@systemsix.com is probably the best way to reach out.
(39:48):
Yep.
Candidates, firm owners, you know, maybeyou wanna sell your firm, whatever.
Happy to talk with folks.
I like talking with other folksin the industry 'cause there's stuff I'm learning too, right?
Yep.
You know, it's not just,I don't know everything.
So always happy to talk with others.
Well, we'll make sure that inthe show notes, we'll put your contact information in there.
We'll also put a link to yourLinkedIn profile so that they don't
go to another Chris Williams, thatthey wanna find you down that path.
(40:10):
Yeah.
We'll put all that together.
So, Chris, thanks a lot.
I appreciate you spending time andbeing a, an open book about what you
guys have done well, what you're stillstruggling with, what you're growing from.
So thank you very much.
Continue doing what you're doing.
No thanks John.
Thanks for having me, andappreciate the good work you're doing on the recruiting side.
I appreciate it.
And for those of you that have spentsome time with us today, learning a little bit more about how firms
(40:32):
and leaders like System Six andChris Williams are impacting the industry, we really appreciate it.
I know that time is valuable for allof us in the world we live in today.
So thank you for the timethat you've invested here.
And if you like what you heard,give us a like, leave us a comment on the platform of your choice.
Also subscribe to the podcast becauseyou don't wanna miss any of the upcoming conversations that we have
teed up with leaders who are doingtheir part to make a positive change.
(40:56):
In this thing that we call CPA Live.
Until next time,
we hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite podcasting app.
Leave a five star rating and visitour website for links and show notes at CPALifePodcast.com dot com.
(41:16):
We'll see you next time on CPA Life.
Professional productions.net.
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life wherewe taught culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in
an industry that has been stuck witha, we've always done it that way.
Mindset.
For far too long, join host John Randolph.
And learn how a sustainablefamily friendly career in public
accounting doesn't have tobe the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
Hey everybody.
Thanks for joining us for anotherepisode of the CPALifePodcast.com, where we spotlight firm leaders and
industry insiders who are passionateabout making some much needed changes.
To the industry in public accounting andadvisory and outsourced accounting, where we're creating more of a culture-driven,
(00:47):
employee-focused firm firms where peopledon't have to sacrifice their lives at the
T alter of their job to build a career andalso have an amazing life outside of work.
And today we are joined by ChrisWilliams, who is the owner and CEO
of System Six, a modern remote,cloud-based finance and accounting firm.
Chris, welcome to the show.
Awesome, John, thanksso much for having me.
(01:08):
Well said.
You know, we really believe here at SystemSix that accounting can be a great place to work, and it's our job to, you know,
create and build that environment so thatour team members can love what they do.
Have joy, have flexibility, andhave time for a family as well.
Something that I think isfallen by the wayside in, in the accounting space for far too long.
Yeah.
Well,
it's starting to change.
It feels like we're startingto change, which is good.
(01:29):
There, there's a little bit ofa ripple effect, and I'm like
you I'm starting to see more of acurrent pull in that direction.
You know, one of the things that welike to do before we jump into the meat
of things is give folks a little bitof a snapshot of your career track.
Where you went to college, howyou ended up kind of where you are today as a CEO of System Six.
So give us a little bit of whathas brought you down this path.
(01:52):
Yeah.
You don't wanna go straightto debits and credits.
Not too much.
We won't touch that.
You'll lose.
Yeah, you'll lose me really fast.
I could speak to it as a businessowner, but not as a person doing it.
Me too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thanks again for having me.
So my quick background, and I laughabout debits and credits, because my expertise taps out quickly there.
(02:12):
I'm actually not an accountant.
I came to System Six kind ofreally through business ownership.
So before System Six, I hadspent seven years working in more traditional finance roles.
Out of undergrad, I worked at aninvestment bank, and then I spent a couple years working at a big
investment firm and then went backto graduate school to get my MBA.
(02:34):
And you know, while I wasthere I was exploring.
I really enjoyed my time in investing,sort of big finance, but recognized I wanted to be closer to the results, closer
to, you know, feeling like my time, myaction was really making changes quickly
and whatever I was doing, you know, and Iwas part of a large organization before.
Nothing against it but hard to havethat happen when you're in a big company.
(02:54):
Yep.
So, you know, I was thinking about startupor I was thinking about, you know, going
to join in an operations role at a mediumsized company, and then I found this path.
It's becoming increasingly popular,which is basically go look for a small business to buy yourself or with some
investors and then take it over kindof, first off, try to stabilize and make sure there's no choppiness in transition.
(03:17):
You know, you're generally buyingthe business from an owner that
wants to retire, you know, andthen six, 12 months later kind of.
Really start to try andbring your energy to it.
Try and grow it, try and improve it.
That's really the shortstory of System Six.
You know, I spent about a year lookingfor a good small business to buy in sort of the financial services space,
(03:37):
because that was my background, stumbledupon outsourced accounting as sort of
a business line that I thought was veryinteresting for a lot of reasons and.
There was a sales job built a listof about 30 firms that looked to be between 10 and 50 employees.
That would be kind of thesize for me to start at.
Sent Jeremy, who's the owner ofSystem Six, a cold email in like probably October, 2020, and.
(04:00):
Nine months later, myself, a couple ofinvestors, you know, bought the business
and three and a half years later we'restill going strong, believe it or not.
Well I would say going strong isa little bit of an understatement.
'cause you guys are not only growingand doing it well, but I gotta tell you, one of the things that we built.
Our business around on the recruitingside of the house is really partnering with firms that are passionate about
(04:25):
creating workplaces for their people,where they're really bucking the trend of the century old grinding mindset
that's existed in this industry since Godcreated rocks and yeah, you know when we initially spoke a few months back.
One of the things that really resonatedwith me was a tagline that I saw, and I don't remember if it's on LinkedIn or on
your website, but I grabbed that and Ithrew it in our client file with you guys.
(04:49):
Yeah, and I pull it into a note thatI wanna read real quick, because I think that this really is, it's an
aspiration I think more firms shouldhave that they're trying to do.
It says System Six is a modern, remote,cloud-based finance and accounting firm focused on two equal passions:
Providing dream accounting careers toour team members and freeing up our customers time so they can focus on their
(05:10):
business, their family, their nonprofit,or whatever their interests lie.
I. Tell me what that means toyou, because that is not something
that you would typically hearfrom an accounting firm leader.
Whether that accounting firm is anoutsourced bookkeeping firm, accounting
firm, or a traditional CPA firm, that'sjust not something that you hear a lot.
Yeah, well, well, you know,I gotta give some credit.
(05:31):
First, I think, you know, in a lot ofways, you know, System Six was started in 2008 when I got here in 2021.
You know, a lot of thatfoundation already existed.
You know, the firm wasalready fully remote.
Most of our team members kind ofchoose the hours they wanna work.
Do you want 30 hours?
Do you want 35?
Do you want 25?
You know, we can flex up and down, notevery month, but you know, throughout your time here at System Six.
(05:55):
So a lot of that ethoswas already here, I think.
I've worked hard to sort of call itout and just vocalize it more, but I think really what it means is, yeah,
I really think about our business in alot of ways is kinda like a marketplace.
You know, customers come to us and atthe end of the day, you know, we can
all talk about, we're productizingaccounting, we're using technology, but I.
(06:18):
They're still really, you know,buying time from our team members.
That's what professional services is asmuch absolutely as we've got workflow, automation, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, all right, so thenyou realize, okay, well our product is really our people's time.
So how do you deliver the best product?
Well, you gotta havegood people, of course.
(06:39):
But then for them to deliver their timewell, they have to be in a good spot.
Yep.
And that's really whatit all comes down to, is.
If our people aren't in a goodspot, they're not gonna put in the
extra effort, they're not gonnabe extra friendly on the call.
Then kind of the wholemarketplace crumbles.
So when you really think about,I think, look, obviously the customer is super important.
(07:00):
We don't exist without thecustomer, without the client.
But you know, in some ways I thinkthis kind of mindset of client first.
Client.
First.
Client first.
24 7 actually ultimately doesn'tserve the client well because
then you grind your people becauseevery client email is urgent.
Every client needs to beresponded to immediately.
And then your people start to leave.
And then your clientsuffers from people churn.
(07:21):
So when you really start to think, andwe tell clients this Hey, we're a people first firm, and you know, we have a 24
hour response policy, and that's good foryou because it means you're not gonna have to deal with a bunch of churn because.
We let you burn accountantsand bookkeepers out.
So yeah, I mean really what that, thatwhole statement means ultimately to us is I know that our product is our people.
(07:43):
We have to put them first.
And not every person needs the exact samething on your team, so you gotta know.
We got some grinders and let 'em grind.
You know what?
They wanna work 45 hours, go for it.
Right?
But we also got a ton of momsand dads that, you know, can get off and go to soccer practice.
And so let's scope their kind ofemployment to meet their needs.
You know, some people are on salary, somepeople are on hourly and have preferences.
(08:07):
So that's really intentionallyin that statement.
The people part comes firstbecause, you know, we really do try to start with the people.
And then, yeah.
The other thing I've just realizedwith the clients is, you know,
I always thought, hey, everyclient's gonna want CFO advisory.
They're gonna want, you know, a fancymodel on how they can grow their business 20% in a year for the next five years.
(08:29):
Some don't.
Some are like, Hey, Igot a great business.
I just wanna make sure my payroll's done.
You guys do my bookkeeping 'cause Iwanna go spend time doing X, Y, Z. And so again, like you know, you gotta
meet your team where they are and yougotta meet your client where they are.
Be willing to kind ofbe custom a little bit.
We don't have to do the exactsame thing for every client.
It's interesting you say that 'causethat's, you know, one of the things that we constantly talk about in, in our
(08:52):
business is not every employee, not everycandidate that we talk to is a superstar.
We're gonna have people that, youknow, that the way that I was put it with our staffs, you know, we're
going to have employees or employersthat may not have a great opportunity.
In fact, the reasonthat job may be open is.
You know, Joe died at his desk last weekafter being with the firm for 32 years.
While we may look at that and go,man, there is no way I'd ever do that.
(09:15):
Inevitably we are goingto talk to somebody.
That's when we ask them what they want.
They're gonna say, man,I'd like a company.
I can work at 30 years and die at my desk.
Yeah.
There are people out there likethat, and I think that in the world that we live in today, the one size
fits all model that I think businesswas built around for decades.
I think I can safely say postcovid has drastically changed.
(09:39):
And leaders like you, regardless ofthe industry leaders like you and others that we talked to, that get,
that I think are going to continuallybe able to attract better talent.
Yep.
Because you've got an environment thatsays, Hey, what works for Bill may
not work for Sally, what may not workfor Jim, what may not work for Jill.
Yeah.
And then it's just our job to knowreally well, you know, our people's
(09:59):
skill sets, their desires, and kind of,you know, match that in the marketplace.
Against the client that we havecoming in, and we go through that.
You know, when we get a new client, we,you know, sign 3, 4, 5 new clients a
month and we know some are gonna be agood fit for this team and some aren't.
I mean, sometimes we'll move clientswithin System Six we've been serving this client for three years.
(10:20):
There's been a little bit ofpersonality damage over time.
You know, let's justmove it to a new team.
Let's hit reset.
And again, like not everything,just because one team.
Didn't enjoy serving them anymore afterthree years doesn't mean that another team can't do great serving them.
It's nothing bad about that team.
It's just, hey, you know, timefor a little bit of a reset.
So, yeah, I think, you know, yougotta have systems around it so you don't get completely unwieldy.
(10:44):
We can't have a hundred peoplehere doing a hundred completely different things, but Right.
Having some level of flexibility, Ithink allows a variety of employees
to find their definition of joy,their definition of flexibility here.
You know, that's one thing.
I think we, we had some hiringchallenges maybe 18 months ago, and one of the big takeaway from that was.
(11:04):
You know, a great workplace can meandifferent things to different people, and you gotta make sure you identify
during the hiring process what theirdefinition of a great workplace is, and then make sure that what we are matches.
Yeah.
I think that in the marketplace I.Today, especially that the leader that can somehow balance the act of, for lack
(11:28):
of a better way to put it, creating apsychologically diverse enough business.
Yeah.
That every single person thinks thatthis business was built for them.
Yeah.
But still maintaining some semblanceof connectivity throughout.
It is the leader that's goingto win more times than not.
We're trying, easier saidthan done, but we're trying.
It really is, and especially likeyou guys, you're a fully remote firm.
(11:51):
Yep.
You've got people from coast to coast.
Yep.
And obviously the drivers of somebodypossibly sitting in the northeast may
be very different than the drivers ofsomebody sitting in southern California.
Yeah.
And you know, same thing with clients.
And sometimes again, it's just about.
Knowing expectations.
Our salesperson, he records everysales call and you know, our delivery
(12:15):
team gets to review 'em beforepotentially assigning it to the right.
You know, 'cause yeah, sometimesthere's personality differences or you gotta pay attention to time zone.
You know, he's a works in a business onthe East coast that needs to be able to talk with us in the morning sometimes.
Well then we gotta make sure wedon't put a West Coast team on him.
You know, again, I think itdoes like being fully remote, having this ethos of flexibility.
(12:36):
I. For sure creates challenges.
And it creates moreoperational complexity.
But I'd rather deal with those coupleof challenges here and there because
it allows me to just, it's so hard tofind good accountants, as you know.
So if I can be way more flexiblein what I'm able to hire, oh, you only wanna work 25 hours?
(12:57):
Like great.
We can find a way to make that work.
You wanna work three daysa week because you and your husband split childcare great.
We can find a way to make that work.
It's hard, it takes extra work, butI'd still rather hire that person for 25 hours or three days a week and do
a little bit of extra work to sort ofmake it work than not hire them and keep searching for another two months.
(13:20):
Yep.
When you find a good person,how can we make it work?
And you have to be kind of aflexible organization to do that.
Yeah.
I think it calls for a little bit morework on you as a leader or even on
your leadership team when you look atsituations and say, okay, the easy answer
yep.
Is this person for 40 hours a week.
Yep.
That's the easy answer.
(13:42):
Nine to five.
But maybe a better answeris these two people at.
25 hours a week and 15 hours a
week.
Yeah.
And you know, look, it's what we'vefound and we've had to communicate is
not every single decision that we makedoes our team get to quote unquote win.
You know you know, talk a lot about, wewant this to be a great place to work.
(14:04):
So that means if we have a pain inthe *** client, like generally we're
gonna talk to the client and if theydon't get better, we'll let them go.
But you know, we also havequarterly goals of how much churn we're gonna have every quarter.
And so if we're in a quarter where,hey, maybe we had a couple more clients roll off than we expected, then Hey,
I know you wanna fire this clientright now, but like gimme a few months.
(14:25):
You have to communicate with your teamlike, Hey, you don't always get to do everything that you want, but Right.
Just know over time we'rebending towards that.
Like we're generally landing on the sideof what the employee wants, you know?
This client's too hard for me to serve.
I'm over my skis.
Okay, great.
It's gonna take us a couplemonths to get that off your plate.
So bear with us, you know?
Yep.
You know, but that's sometimes been achallenge internally, people are like, well, I thought we were, you know, a
(14:49):
people first firm, and why are you makingme do this for a couple more months?
And the answer is, look, not everysingle thing can go that way.
We got a broader business to thinkabout, but I. I just think in general,
you know, deciding things, peoplefirst will really pay off for folks.
Talk to me about the growth of the firm.
'cause I know that you guys have beenprevious to this year and are still on a path of growth through acquisition.
(15:13):
I mean, organic growth.
Yeah.
But if the right partner comes up,there's a potential for acquisition.
So talk to me about kind of what has beenattractive to you through that process of the firms that you've acquired.
Yeah.
And what do you guys typicallylook at moving forward?
Yeah, so I mean, look, I don't wantto gloss over what you said, which is organic is still super important.
You know, we grew from, call it two anda half million in revenue to about five sort of organically, and then since then
(15:39):
we've started to, you know, I was doing alot of biz dev, a lot of the sales, so we
didn't have time to really do acquisitionsuntil over the last six, nine months.
Obviously, you know, I bought SystemSix, so that was kind of acquisition one.
Our goal is really we want tocontinue to grow organically, but then also do strategic acquisitions.
(16:00):
We're not, you know, trying tobuy 20 firms a year, like some of these large private equity players.
What we're looking for right noware, it's kind of two different types of acquisition opportunities.
It's one, either a firm that's justso similar to ours that it's just gonna be very easy for us to fold in.
(16:20):
Meaning, you know, similarculture, fully remote, Karbon as their practice management system.
So we bought one a couple monthsago and it was exactly that.
It was, you know, I'd been introducedpersonally to the owner, had a level of trust with her, you know, a bunch of
references I could kind of backgroundcheck on her and recognized as a good person, exact same tech stack as us.
(16:44):
Similar sized clients, similarculture and yeah, like acquiring
firms can be a nice, you know,financial way to grow your business.
You get more cash flow to reinvestback in sales and marketing.
So I'll look at those kindof easy, just put 'em into System Six firms all day long.
Kind of plug and play.
Yeah.
The most important things there are likesimilarity of tech stack, similarity of culture, meaning it's gotta be remote.
(17:09):
They've got some flexibilityin the organization.
You know, of course we look at financials,but I think that one thing that gets
overlooked, probably the most importantnumber for us is customer retention.
You know, we just need to see ahistory of customers sticking around, you know, 'cause especially if the
owner's gonna leave, we need to knowtheir, they're sticky customers.
So that's kind of one, you know,we're looking at another one right now like that, you know, we're 40 people.
(17:31):
The last one we bought was.
Four or five.
This one is seven or eight people.
So kind of these smallteams that we can roll in.
And then the second opportunitythat we spend time on are, you know, I have a vision.
I wanna become sort of a one-stop shop ofprofessional services to small businesses.
So acquisitions with a new service line.
So we don't do taxes rightnow, we want to get into tax.
(17:54):
So we're looking at a firm thatdoes tax or acquisitions that.
Maybe their tech stack or theirculture isn't exactly the same, but they're like experts in Yeah.
CFO tax or they're experts in, we'relooking at one that's got law firms, all they do is serve law firm clients.
So, you know, interesting.
It's gonna be a little harderto integrate those, but they bring something different to the table.
(18:19):
That's valuable.
A brand and expertise in a end market thatwe think is attractive small law firms,
I'm willing to do more integration workthere, even if they're not on Karbon.
You know, because I think it'sa better sort of, I'm getting something else in return, right?
You know, which is this marketpresence or buying a tax firm that's
(18:41):
gonna be more complicated than justbuying a small bookkeeping practice.
But then all a sudden they get taxed.
So it's if it's not a clean,easy integration, it's gotta come with something else.
Yeah.
So those are kind of the two differentflavors of acquisitions we'll look at.
And we'll try to do another probablyone to three this year and you know, a
couple more next year and it's, 'causethere's a lot of great firms out there.
(19:05):
You said something a minute ago thatI've kind of held onto in the back of my head and I completely forgot about you.
Bring an interesting perspective tothe table in regards to private equity.
In this space, because you're in thisspace now, but you've also played on the private equity side of things.
What is your take?
What are your thoughts?
Good, bad, indifferent, little ofboth on the move of private equity into the professional services space.
(19:30):
Yeah.
And what you've seen.
Lots of thoughts.
I think the first thing to remember is.
Look, everyone has seen the badstories about private equity, you know, wall Street Journal, whatever.
There's plenty of examples out there.
Yeah, we where private equityhas done harm to a business.
But let's not forget that regular businessowners have done harm to businesses too.
You know you can lookat any type of business.
(19:54):
Ownership, whether it's corporate, youknow, or the stock market or private equity or you know, friends and family
and there are examples of folks thathave made bad decisions that, you know,
led to businesses going under or havingto fire a bunch of people or whatever.
So, you know, that's not meant tocompletely absolve private equity of
some of the challenges that happen,but it's just, that's kind of comment.
One, make no mistake about it,that if you're an accounting firm
(20:19):
and you come under private equityownership, it's gonna get more intense.
You know, they're gonnapush you to grow faster.
They're gonna push youto drive profitability.
They might ask you to lay off some folksthat maybe aren't that efficient or aren't contributing, but you know, they're
not stupid where they're gonna come inand just, especially in a professional
services firm, and fire all the deliveryfolks they understand that the delivery.
(20:42):
You know, in the IT or whatever,like they play a mission critical
part of the business and youcan't just let 'em all go.
So, you know, I think it's,yeah, expect if you know, private
equity, ownership, you know, in someways you give 'em credit for it.
No one's questioning what they'resolving for, you know, they're
solving for the best financialoutcome for the business as possible.
(21:04):
And so, yeah, of course thatmeans that they're gonna, yeah.
Are they gonna maybe serveyour client less well?
'cause they're gonnamake you charge more for.
That one off random hourly project thatbefore you used to just do for your client, be like, well, I really like Bill.
Like I'll just do that for him.
I won't bill him for it.
Right.
Yeah.
You're gonna have to bill for thatnow under pe and sure, maybe it's not as nice to bill, but the reality
(21:25):
is if you're not charging bill forthat work, it means your team's not getting paid in one way or another.
So it's clear what they're drivingfor, but I don't think that it's
bad to be driving for like morefinancial efficiency in your business.
Yep.
And then I also think that look, there's.
Not so much in our world, but in themore traditional partnership world, I think they are helping solve a
(21:47):
real problem, which is you get allthese partners who wanna get bought
out and the next generation doesn'thave the means or doesn't want to.
So they're, you know, bringinga solution to that issue.
Yep.
So I'm generally like, I'm okay with it.
I think yes.
There will be some stories ofexamples of PE doing things that are very bottom line focused, but.
(22:10):
That's their model.
And if you don't like it, you don't haveto, you know, go do a deal with them.
Yeah.
It's just kind of purecapitalism is what it is.
Yeah.
I think that there's a piece of theindustry, I think you touched on it by your answer just there a little
bit that we've created the situationthat we're in, because there is a lot of people that are looking at.
What is the exit strategy?
(22:31):
I mean, I've got two clients thatwe worked with here locally that they had built their exit strategy
around a couple of people in theirfirm, potentially buying their firm.
Yeah.
And that didn't happen.
One passed away during Covid,another one decided to be a stay-at-home parent right after Covid.
And two other people they hired sinceCovid to kind of be those people moved on.
Not everybody wants to take outa big loan to buy a business.
(22:53):
Yeah.
And so they ended up.
Merging into another firm thathas now sold to private equity.
So you've gotta do what yougotta do to take care of things.
But I think that you're right.
You know, when you make the decisionto sign on the dotted line, you know what you're getting into.
Yeah.
It's not like the writingis not on the wall.
Yeah.
And I think, look, there's also, youknow, fabulous stories of success where they come in, you know, they're gonna.
(23:19):
Put some capital on the table, it'llgo make a couple hires, you know, that the old partners didn't wanna make
'cause they were afraid to cut theirtake home and they're gonna, you know, a lot of these private equity firms are
doing this roll up thing where they'rebuying all these small firms and.
Putting 'em together and now all ofa sudden you're part of a hundred million dollar firm and you have access
to, you know, an offshore team, or youhave access to a sales and marketing
(23:39):
function that you never had when youwere, you know, a 30 person shop.
So I tend to think there's gonnabe a lot of success stories.
There's gonna be some negative ones,but you could say the same about.
Accounting firms before pe therewere some great places to work and there were some bad places to work.
Yep.
And I think that, you know, frompersonal experience, private equity
made a move into the recruiting,talent management staffing industry.
(24:02):
Yep.
25, 30 years ago.
And that's about the timeI started my career in it.
And I didn't know anything aboutprivate equity when I started in it.
All I knew was the firm I was with.
Use private equity money to doa rollup of their franchises.
Yep.
Had no idea what thatmeant as a 26-year-old kid.
Yeah.
All I knew was I started realizingpeople were being let go that weren't being let go before.
(24:24):
Yeah.
And from a performer perspective, what Iquickly realized is there's this list that came out monthly of performers and usually
everybody from about the middle downwere the people that were being let go.
So.
My job, in my mind became real simple.
I need to stay above the middle line.
Yeah.
And as close to the top ofthat board as I can get to not have to worry about anything.
(24:47):
And you know you'll probably get rewarded'cause there's less kind of, you know,
a lot of the people that are draggingthings down aren't around, you know.
Yeah.
Look I mean, I think there's abroader conversation around that's, you know, way above my pay grade of.
Should every business be run with,you know, that kind of absolute bottom line mentality and how does Yeah.
(25:10):
When you no longer have the localaccounting firm that's like doing
extra work pro bono, you know, just'cause they're friends with folks like.
Is there something more broadly that's abad thing when you kind of lose that type
of service provider in the ecosystem andeverything becomes bottom line oriented.
But that's I tend to notthink that's a huge issue.
(25:31):
But I think there is a conversation onecan have there, but you know, beyond me.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
That's a little bit outsideof the scope of Yeah.
I think what I've been called to do.
Yeah.
One of the things that I. Haverespected about your firm since we started working together and talking
and even looking back the legacy andtalking to some people after we started working together about your firm.
(25:52):
You guys have alwaysbeen a remote culture.
Yep.
I wanna talk a little bit aboutthat because that still is in 2025.
It's still a hot button topic.
Do we or don't we, shouldwe or shouldn't we?
What about collaboration?
What about culture?
All of those things.
You guys have built a successfulteam with solid retention.
Good people.
(26:13):
Completely remote.
Yeah.
Tell me what the keys to thatsuccess, in your opinion, have been in building a remote business?
Yeah.
I think the first thing is andit sounds obvious, but you can't try to be a, an in-person firm.
You know when there's an urgent thing andif you're in the office, you can walk down the hall and knock on somebody's door.
Like we don't have that luxury.
(26:35):
Sure, I can message someone on teams, but.
I have to know that if they're not thereand they're not responding, that's part of our kind of agreement with our team
is look, you know, if you need to stepout at 2:00 PM to go pick up your kid we're not asking you to tell somebody,
and we don't expect you to respond toevery single thing within 30 minutes.
(26:56):
So you, you have to be, you know,willing to like, let things sometimes
move a little more slowly becauseyou're just not in the office together.
So, yeah, if you feel like you need to be.
The fastest team in the world and themost collaborative team in the world.
Yeah, that might need to be in the office.
Like you can't replicatesome of that stuff.
(27:16):
But then you have all the negativesof being in the office, which
is, it's so hard to recruit, youknow, costs, et cetera, et cetera.
So that's kind of thing one,like you're not in the office.
I think to think two, trust has to beobviously paramount in the organization.
It's one of our core values, butI think it's not just oh, we trust you to get your work done.
Also, you need to instill in youremployees that they can trust
(27:37):
you as the leadership to speakup when they're having issues.
Because if you're in the office,you can tell when someone's overloaded, when they're stressed.
You know, we can't tellthat remotely as well.
So I'm hammering all the timeand all hands, whatever, you know, my door's always open.
If you have anything you'reconcerned about, bring it up.
We'll handle it the right way because.
(27:59):
Our employees need to trust us thatthey can bring stuff to us so that
we know what's going on and we know,you know, how we can help them.
You know?
And then the last thing I would say,try to find ways to get together.
Like we do an annual retreat.
There's no PowerPoint.
It's no like strategy.
It's just pick a city in the middleof the country, fly everyone there for the weekend, have fun together.
(28:21):
Yeah, it costs money.
But that's very effective way to buildrapport and friendship between people.
You know, I travel for conferences.
If I'm in a city, I'll try and host adinner if there's team members there.
So again, you know, you're not gonnahave the same level of relationship
you have with people if you see'em in the office every day.
But you can do little things.
So that's kind of theway I think about it.
(28:41):
It's first, you know, youjust, you're not in the office.
You can't think that yourun an in office firm.
You can't have the sameexpectations, create trust, and then spend time together.
I think that first thing that you justsaid is critical, and I never really thought about it that way, but I. There's
so many things that we do as leadersthat have just been that's what we do.
That's how we do it, becausethat's how we've always done it.
(29:03):
'cause we've been in an officeand a lot of those things don't
translate or transition to aremote setting extremely well.
Yeah.
I mean I find all the timeof I'll send someone a message at, you know, 4:00 PM their time.
They'll be like, Hey, by the way,no need to respond to this today.
Get back to me tomorrow if you need,you know, just that's not my nature.
(29:24):
You know, I'm fast moving and I've comefrom jobs where you didn't get that
luxury, but it's you gotta remember,it's a different arrangement now.
Right.
And you know, that goes a long way.
Yeah.
And I think that having thatgrace and that understanding that,
hey, not everybody is plugged ina hundred percent of the time.
I'm not plugged in ahundred percent of the time.
And just that I think there's somethingfreeing individually as a person, but then
(29:48):
also to your clients to let them know,hey, it's not gonna be instantaneous.
Yeah.
Which at the end of the day, ifwe roll the clock back to eighties and nineties, that's kind of how
we did business, even though wewere sitting in an office together.
Yeah.
It wasn't like thingshappened instantaneously.
They just didn't,
we've gotten our agreements withour clients, you know, you know, next day business response policy.
(30:11):
And you know, we've had some clientsthat get real big and they get to the point where they're like, I
need to be able to hear back frommy bookkeeping team the same day.
And we say, great.
That's just not us.
And then we, you know, part ways.
Friendly together.
Yeah, and I think that's somethingthat I'm sure your people love about the way that you run the
business, and that's just a corevalue that's important to you guys.
(30:34):
I think that the word thatcontinually comes to mind as we're sitting here talking about
this in my head is intentionalityfrom a leadership perspective.
You have to be intentionalabout those things.
They don't just happen.
Yep.
You know, look, it's not easy.
We had a big client that, you know, wehad to get a lot of stuff done and there
were some late nights over the lastsix weeks getting 'em ready for audit.
So it's not 24 7.
Right.
But again, like I said earlier, generallycan you know, err on the side of the
(30:59):
intentionality, the decision for yourteam, you know, it's kind of like.
We try to build a trust, well, in a lot ofways where it's like our team trusts that we're making the right decisions for them.
So when occasionally, like they gottasuck it up and hey, you know what?
We can't fire that client right now.
Or, Hey, I do need you towork a little late on this.
You know, as long as you'renot asking that all the time,
(31:19):
people will go above and beyondhere and there when you need it.
I completely agree.
I was ready to say, I don't thinkthat I've talked to a single
candidate ever since we have, youknow, 100% focused on this space.
I don't think I've ever talked to acandidate that was aligned in the sand.
I'm working 40 hours and that's it.
I'm not doing anything more.
Find me firm.
That's what they do, becausethat's just not a reality.
(31:41):
But what I have found is numerous people.
More times than not that are willing tosay, Hey, I'll do whatever I've gotta do.
But I'd rather that be theexception, not the rule.
Yep.
And that's exactly the culture we'retrying to create, which is, yeah,
the vast majority of the time it'sgonna be exactly what you want.
Occasionally you might have to stretch,but I. We're not gonna make it recurring.
(32:02):
And I'm sure that when you go out tomarket to find somebody that fits into a remote culture, you know, probably
90% of the people that you talk towhen you say remote are gonna raise their hand and say, I can do it.
I'm on it.
Sign me up.
But there's also probably behaviorsand idiosyncrasies that you look for through the interview process that give
you an indication of whether or not, oreven just looking at someone's resume
(32:24):
to give you an indication of whetheror not that person might be a good fit.
What have you found?
As a leader in a remote firm thattypically resonates with you guys
when you look for people that youthink could be successful in a remote
environment?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, candidly, andthis is a little maybe, you know, shortsighted, but like we don't like
to hire folks that haven't workedremotely yet, and unfortunately a lot of people now have that experience
(32:48):
from Covid, you know, 'cause we hireda couple of folks from earlier on, they
were remote for three months andthen they went back to the office.
So they only had a three month stintever being remote and come summer 2021, they're just like, I can't do this.
I miss an office.
So we look for that, you know,people that have worked remotely.
(33:09):
We look for people that have a dedicatedoffice space for their remote work, even if it's in a guest bedroom or something.
But oh, I'm gonna work formy kitchen table on the couch.
You know we've found that's a challenge.
So we like to make sure folks havea dedicated space and then obviously we're looking for, you know, the core
values, the traits that matter mostin a remote environment are like, you know, do you have accountability?
(33:33):
Do you have some drive?
Are you trustworthy person, you know,we just gotta stress test those harder
because Yeah, look, you know, ifsomeone wanted to melt the clock and.
Get paid and not do as much work.
Yeah, you can do it in a remoteenvironment a lot easier.
So we just, we have to make sure thatthe attributes right, the traits that
a person who doesn't do that has we,we make sure that's what we're hiring.
(33:54):
Yeah, and I'd say the last thing that,whether you're hiring remotely or not, I think one of the most important
things we do is we do blind references,you know, which is, hey, they're gonna give you, they're gonna give a
couple references of people they'veworked with, and those people are always gonna say nice things gonna.
List a reference.
Who's gonna on you?
Excuse me.
Right?
Yeah.
So what we do is we tell a candidate, Hey,you know, we're gonna reach out to some just random former coworkers of yours.
(34:20):
Is there anything we should be aware of?
Is there anyone we needto stick away from?
And that kind of threat, so to speak.
Sometimes we'll bubble up some stuff ofwell, my old boss hates me and here's why.
And then we do it.
We go call random folks, message'em on LinkedIn, and most of the time they have great things to say.
And occasionally you'll discoversomething and you're like, well, I'm glad I found out about that.
(34:41):
Yep.
So that's a mission criticalpart of our hiring process.
Yeah.
It's interesting you say that becauseone of the things that we always talk to candidates about, I don't care if it
is a big industry in a lot of firms anda lot of people, it's a small world.
And one of the things we'll always sayto candidates is, Hey look, I need to know what is the worst thing that my
client's gonna hear about you when hepicks the phone up and he calls your firm?
(35:02):
And let me make it very clear.
I'm not saying callingand checking a reference.
Yeah.
What I'm saying is there is ahigh likelihood he knows somebody,
that he knows Somebody at yourfirm that he went to school with.
He met at a conference.
Yep.
He's played golf with a few times and he'snot gonna call with a piece of paper in his hand saying formal reference check.
Yeah.
He's gonna make a call and say, Hey.
I have a question for you.
This is just me and you talking.
(35:23):
Tell me about Bill.
Yep.
Yep.
And I need to know what's theworst thing he's gonna hear.
Yep.
Because more times than not, those callsare made, especially in an industry like
you guys, where there's a lot of knowledgeof who is who in the marketplace.
Yep.
Yeah.
And look, we just hiredsomebody who identified to me.
Yeah.
Basically, my current boss is notgonna say nice things about me.
(35:47):
And here's why.
We had a good conversation and I talkedabout what could you have done better?
And we hired her.
You know because sometimes peoplework for bad bosses, sometimes people make mistakes and they learn from 'em.
So,
yep.
You know, no one's gotperfect references out there.
It's just about being transparent.
Yeah, I think that's a very valid point.
As you've grown the firm over thelast couple of years, what has
(36:10):
been key to you when you look atthe performance of your people?
When you look at just the overallapproach to the business that they take, what are the behaviors that
you typically look for in your peopledealing with customers, dealing with clients again, in a remote setting?
Yeah.
I mean, we track a lot of metrics.
(36:31):
You know, we pay a lot of attention toprobably three or four kind of categories.
One is I would say margin, you know,our kind of gross profit on clients, so you know, whether you're salary or salary
here we do track time and it's not becausewe're trying to hold you aggressively to a time clock, but it's because we
wanna make sure that we're getting paidenough for the work that we're doing.
(36:52):
'cause all of our clientsare on fixed fees.
So we look at margins pretty closelyevery month and that helps us identify.
If a team member needs toget more efficient, but more often than not, scopes change.
So we need to go get a price change donewith that customer and that ultimately means that team member will get paid more.
'cause everyone's got some versionof profit share on their clients.
So we look at that type of stuff a lot.
(37:14):
We look at customer retention.
We do quarterly check-in calls withmost of our customers from a sort of more senior person on the team.
So we're making sure that clients sort ofjust give us good feedback on those calls.
We do not do as often as we should.
Like a client survey, like that NPS surveyof, you know, rate us one through 10.
(37:35):
Yep.
And then internally we do aquarterly employee survey that's got some recurring questions.
You know, would you recommendSystem Six as a place to work?
Do you like your manager?
And then we've got some otherkind of questions that are changed in that survey every quarter.
So everyone gets a quarterlyperformance review.
So there's conversations that happenthere where team members get to vocalize.
(37:57):
Yeah.
As part of your performance review,you have to rank your manager and you
have to rank how you feel about yourcompensation, your workload, et cetera.
So just trying to get a lot of datapoints is the most important thing.
I don't think you have to overanalyzewhat questions you're asking.
It's just making sure you're getting.
In a remote environment, getting apulse check on people, I feel like at least once a quarter, you know,
(38:19):
how would you rate your job one tofive and just take a look at that.
You know, you can just start there.
So yeah, kind of like we paya lot of attention to margin profitability by client.
I. Customer success and thensort of team member happiness.
And I think it goes back to that, thatone simple word of intentionality.
Yeah.
Not just letting it happen.
Yeah.
I mean you can't just wait for your peopleto quit to know that they're not happy.
(38:42):
You know, like you, you gottado this ahead of time so then you can identify issues.
And if somebody quits and we'resurprised, that's like super frustrating.
You know, if someone quits 'cause we knowthey haven't been happy, you know, then.
Same thing with customers leaving us.
We don't want surprises.
We wanna know that they've beenfrustrated that we've tried.
Maybe we can't fix it,but surprises are no fun.
(39:05):
No, they're absolutely not.
What you and your team are continuingto build is something a lot of firm owners can definitely learn from.
So.
If there are leaders out there hearingwhat you're doing and they have questions about your overall business or even
possible candidates that are looking fora place like System Six to call home, what is the best way for people to contact you
(39:25):
or get in touch with you and just find outa little bit more about what you're doing?
I.
You know, a lot of my ideascame from folks sharing with me, so I'm happy to do the same.
Just email me, it's Chrisat System Six, like SIX, you know, spell out the number.com.
You can find me on LinkedIn as well.
But there's a lot of Chris Williamsout there, so chris@systemsix.com is probably the best way to reach out.
(39:48):
Yep.
Candidates, firm owners, you know, maybeyou wanna sell your firm, whatever.
Happy to talk with folks.
I like talking with other folksin the industry 'cause there's stuff I'm learning too, right?
Yep.
You know, it's not just,I don't know everything.
So always happy to talk with others.
Well, we'll make sure that inthe show notes, we'll put your contact information in there.
We'll also put a link to yourLinkedIn profile so that they don't
go to another Chris Williams, thatthey wanna find you down that path.
(40:10):
Yeah.
We'll put all that together.
So, Chris, thanks a lot.
I appreciate you spending time andbeing a, an open book about what you
guys have done well, what you're stillstruggling with, what you're growing from.
So thank you very much.
Continue doing what you're doing.
No thanks John.
Thanks for having me, andappreciate the good work you're doing on the recruiting side.
I appreciate it.
And for those of you that have spentsome time with us today, learning a little bit more about how firms
(40:32):
and leaders like System Six andChris Williams are impacting the industry, we really appreciate it.
I know that time is valuable for allof us in the world we live in today.
So thank you for the timethat you've invested here.
And if you like what you heard,give us a like, leave us a comment on the platform of your choice.
Also subscribe to the podcast becauseyou don't wanna miss any of the upcoming conversations that we have
teed up with leaders who are doingtheir part to make a positive change.
(40:56):
In this thing that we call CPA Live.
Until next time,
we hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite podcasting app.
Leave a five star rating and visitour website for links and show notes at CPALifePodcast.com dot com.
(41:16):
We'll see you next time on CPA Life.
Professional productions.net.
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