March 19, 2025 • 32 mins
John Randolph concludes his conversation with Allan Fisher of Premier Financial Search on Episode 64 of CPA Life. Delving into the evolving dynamics of the accounting profession, the two discuss how the competitive landscape has expanded beyond local firms to national competition, the advantage boutique firms have had as that landscape changed, and some of the myths surrounding accounting recruitment. Allan emphasizes that firms need to tell a compelling story, explores the challenges posed by private equity in the industry, and touches on talent shortages, offshoring, CPA credentialing issues, and strategies firms can adopt to retain top talent. Allan’s valuable insights on how firms can align better with market expectations are content you don’t want to miss.
Get the full show notes and more resources at CPALifePodcast.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life wherewe now rejoin John Randolph for part
two of his conversation with AllanFisher of Premier Financial Search.
Their continuing discussion on thewinds of change within the accounting
profession from a recruiter's pointof view is one you don't want to miss.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
You know, as an example, if you're inDallas, you're not just going up against
firms in Dallas, which philosophicallymay be exactly the same as you.
Well, now you're going up againstfirms in California and New York, and Atlanta and Chicago that
(00:44):
philosophically are very different interms of the ways they treat people.
So.
Lazy sticks out.
And with that one opportunityto make a first impression, it's
unlikely the candidate's gonnawant that second interview.
I, I like how you put that Allanl. Lazy absolutely does stick out.
That doesn't mean that you have to putforth exceptional over the top effort if you probably just do the effort.
(01:10):
That's gonna stand out versus a lotof other people in the marketplace.
And you bring up a really good point.
I want to kind of steerdown that path a little bit.
You know the fact that you'renow competing as a firm owner.
As a firm leader, you're competing againstfirms literally all over the country.
And again, pre Covid you were probablydealing with stereotypical, traditional firms that were, we're gonna provide
(01:37):
a little bit of all the services toa little bit of all the industries.
Mm-hmm.
Today.
There is an opportunity that thisguy who's sitting at a top a hundred firm, where 50% of his book that he
may be working on in the tax spaceor audit space is in real estate.
And man, he really loves the realestate piece of the business.
(01:58):
There's a chance that he's interviewingwith a couple of top a hundred firms in his marketplace, but he's
probably also interviewing with threeor four firms that are, you know, spread out throughout the country.
Who are 100% real estate boutiqueniche firms, they're granular in
what they do and they can sellsomething different to that guy.
Tell me what you've seen from, youknow, the difference in boutique
(02:19):
firms versus, you know, let'sjust say a top a hundred firm.
Why would someone pickthat versus the other?
There are a lot of stereotypesout there, and we hear it all the time from candidates.
If I go to a smaller firm, I'mgonna be giving something up.
Maybe it's technical complexity,maybe it's access to resources.
Maybe they can't pay the same, and maybethat's true of some small firms, but if we're really talking about boutique firms.
(02:46):
Most of the ones I work with, theycompete with the nationals and in some cases with the Big Four
in terms of the sophisticationof things that they come up with.
If we were to look at some of theindustry-wide metrics, and we were to say, average firm is $250,000 of revenue
per employee, there are boutique firmsthat we work with where it's double that
(03:08):
they're unbelievably profitable and withintheir space, which could be real estate.
It could be high net worth andultra high net worth individuals.
They've got a dream list ofclients that they work with.
Yep.
And the work that they do.
It's interesting.
The clients are interesting.
The types of transactionsthat you're gonna see, you're not gonna see anywhere else.
(03:32):
Right.
And they're very successful.
So I really think what we're dealingwith, or what we're up against is just the preconceived notions candidates have.
And so.
With a lot of the firms we work with,we've been working with them for two
decades, and so we really have the abilityto become, for them, the storyteller.
(03:53):
If you're a boutique firm of 30 employees,you can tell your story to your clients, but the world doesn't know who you are.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where the recruitercomes in, is we advocate for you.
We tell the story.
We know.
You've got something special to offer.
We know how you rank versus all theother firms we work with in those, we
(04:13):
don't, we can shout it from the rooftopsand get a candidate to understand it.
You know, the amount of placementsthat we've made of clients that have no website, they are leaders in what
they do, and they don't care aboutwho in the world knows who they are.
Mm-hmm.
You're up against firmsthat have no website.
They don't give you a jobdescription, but you know that they're doing something spectacular.
(04:36):
So that's where, like, in my opinion,the boutique firms, they've got something extraordinary to offer and many wanna
stay independent in, in a marketwhere the consolidation is happening
at a breathtaking pace, knowing whoyou are is also really important.
I think that's a great point.
I, it's one of the things we talk to ourclients about all the time is the more
(05:00):
you can put that stake in the groundand know who you are and who you're not.
The easier it is to tell thatstory and paint that picture for that person that we're talking to.
And I think that you'recompletely on point there, Allan.
A decade ago there was probablysome validity to the complexity of the work, the compensation,
the challenge of what I'm gonna bedoing, the opportunity for growth.
(05:22):
There was probably a decade ago wheresome of that, I won't say all of it.
I won't say all the time, butthere was a large part that probably had a lot of truth to it.
But in this post Covid world 2025, we'redealing with like you we're seeing less.
Issues between, like you said,the complexity of the work, the compensation that you're dealing with.
(05:43):
There's a lot of parity in thatspace now in top a hundred firms, national firms, and that local firm.
And I think it is because when thosepeople niche down so far in granular, like I'm talking about, there's a price
point that their customers are willingto pay for the value they bring to the table and they can afford to pay people.
You know what somebody's gonna bemaking at a top a hundred firm doing work that maybe isn't as complex.
(06:09):
One of the things I want to ask youabout as it pertains to compensation and what you're seeing in the marketplace,
and again, just seeing what you'regetting from your clients, there's still the perception in the marketplace.
I think to a certain degree that if weoffer an amazing culture, if we offer a better work-life bAllance, people
(06:30):
are willing to take less money thanwhat is competitive in the marketplace.
What are you seeing around that typeof a mindset with some firms and the candidates they're looking at?
Um, so there's, there'salways gonna be a disconnect.
Between what firms feel is fairand what employees feel is fair.
(06:52):
Um, so let's, let's accept thatThere's always gonna be a little bit of disappointment, but I, I think what
you're asking is, is there a certaincontingent of candidates who will leave money on the table in exchange
for other things, quality of life, theright opportunities, sophistication, shorter commute, all the other things?
(07:16):
Yes.
There is gonna be a certain contingent.
It's not a big contingent salaryis the scorecard for employees.
I imagine a conversation around theThanksgiving table where somebody says, I, I just got a new job.
Oh, how much do you make?
How much more money did youmake for accepting the job?
I actually took less, but hear meout, I've got a shorter commute.
(07:40):
Everyone stopped listening at that point.
But we're also in a market wherethere is a free agent premium.
We're in the type of market whereaccepting a pure lateral, it's just not the market condition.
There's always a free agentpremium to make a move.
The only time that free agentpremium is zero is in a recession where there's stability.
(08:05):
So staying put is the risk.
They're moving for stability.
In any other market, there's alwaysgonna be an amount that somebody should get just for making a move.
It's the risk premium.
I'm going somewhere new.
It's a new relationship.
I've gotta make a little bit more.
So, you know, for firms to think thatthere shouldn't be that implied risk premium, that definitely is not the case.
(08:27):
Yep.
On the subject to salary, we dosomething really valuable as a service to the industry here in California.
And we do this in conjunctionwith the Cal Society of CPAs.
So we produce an annual salary survey,and it started about a dozen years ago
when the finished product was a page Lastyear, the finished product was 84 pages.
(08:52):
To me, I, I consider it the bible ofevery metric for CPA firms in California.
And we had 50 plus firms participate.
And so, you know, when it comesto what should somebody make?
How many billable hours should,on average, are people working?
How much?
How many overtime, hours?
What are the billing rates?
We have the data and so weunderstand, and when I say we, I mean recruiters in general.
(09:18):
Mm-hmm.
Because we're asking whatare your expectations?
And we know what the market is,but having your finger on the pulse
of what is going on with salaries,but also all the other things.
You're making, but in exchangefor how many chargeable hours and
how many overtime hours and whatwould it be like at another firm?
So it's really become the industrystandard for salary reviews and increases.
(09:41):
And we put the finished producttogether in June, and we have a lot of firms that say.
We're not gonna go through ourreviews until July because we wanna see what the data is.
We wanna get a sense ofwhat the market's saying.
And when you have that data, you canmake much better informed decisions for your customers, allowing them
to make better decisions for theiremployees, that kind of thing.
(10:03):
One of the things that I think ismoving the needle a little bit with compensation as well as hiring and
retention in general, which we're talkingabout, you know, globally here is.
The elephant in the room kind of thingright now in, in public accounting, that is the, the insertion of private equity.
From your lens, from your perspectiveon the west coast, looking back this way, what are you seeing the
(10:27):
impact of private equity impactinghiring retention in the marketplace?
It's more of a negative than a positive.
Full disclosure, I have two clients.
That are directly owned by private equity,and I've got another two clients that
there's what we call a platform betweenthem and the actual private equity firm.
(10:51):
So I do work with firmsthat have received PE money.
There's some resentment in the market.
The feeling that the sellingshareholders did very well at what cost to everybody else who's here,
does partnership still look thesame as it did pre private equity?
And it's not just private equity.
(11:13):
BDO is now an esop.
Grossi in New York is now an esop.
There are other firms that I knoware considering going this way.
Markham was acquired or merged with CBIZ.
CBIZ is publicly held.
So we have brand new ownershipstructures and the, I think the
question from the employee's mindis, how does this benefit me?
(11:34):
Mm-hmm.
And without the firm being able to clearlyarticulate how it benefits them, people are gonna develop their own stories.
And most of those stories don'tcompute well for the firm.
No.
So.
We've placed a considerable numberof people out of firms that have
recently earned the last couple ofyears taken private equity money.
(11:56):
Mm-hmm.
There's discontent, GrantThornton, Baker Tilly.
Again, the list of firms that are goingthis direction continues to increase.
It'll be interesting what developsover the next couple of years.
So I, I started recruiting and the earlieriteration of this was American Express.
Yes.
Which.
Came into the market in a big way byacquiring firms that were primarily tax practices or in Los Angeles
(12:22):
entertainment practices, and thehope was they would be able to sell financial services to their clients.
It, it ended up being great forthe firms that sold, because after those agreements expired, they
were able to just go on business asusual, plus they got their payment.
It'll be interesting tosee the evolution of this.
(12:42):
But I would say the number of peoplethat we've placed out of private equity
dwarfs the number of people we placed intofirms that are owned by private equity.
I, I would have to concur with that.
And I will tell you, there's a,there's a couple of firms that we, I.
Work with that have taken on privateequity infusions over the last year.
(13:03):
There's a couple that we don't workwith, but we know the leadership there.
Tell me if you're seeing thesame thing where we see it working and I'm like you, I'm I.
I live through the days of privateequity moving into the staffing
space, which is very similarto the public accounting space.
It's a knowledge based industry.
When you start cutting, which is oneof the things they do, you don't have
(13:24):
plants, you don't have equipment, youdon't have raw materials, you got people.
That's it.
I make no bones about it.
I'm not a big fan of private equity,but there's a handful of firms that I've seen that are doing something
really well and it touches on what yousaid, and that is amazing transparency.
Very open communication with line staff.
(13:45):
The firms that are doing well aredoing that exceptionally well.
There aren't a lot ofthem, but you're right.
It's where there's transparency,where it's very clear what everybody
gained through the transaction, whatsome of the pain points might be.
Interestingly, I've had a couple ofclients that have gone down the road.
They've explored it.
(14:07):
And maybe they've been turned off andthey've said, we're gonna double down on the fact that we're independent.
And I think having gone down thatroad, explored it, flirting with the idea and saying No, makes them
even a stronger employer of choicethan somebody who isn't quite sure.
(14:28):
Or somebody that may be susceptible tofomo, and there's a lot of that right now.
There's, yep.
You know, I think most private equityfirms want to have a CPA firm in their portfolio, and most owners have good
friends, former partners, people thatthey golf with that have gone down that road, and it's easy to be seduced.
(14:49):
Yep.
We've got a client here in themarketplace and probably over the last five years, six years, you know, even
before private equity came in wherethere was just a consolidation of top
a hundred firms moving into marketswhere they didn't have a footprint.
Baker, Tilly, Moss, Adams carrigs buying up local firms, these
guys doubled down and made thedecision we're not gonna sell.
(15:10):
We like who we are.
We know who we are.
We don't feel like we needto be anybody different.
Private equity started coming in.
They explored it.
They decided that's notthe path we want to go on.
We know who we are.
We like who we are.
We're gonna stay on this path.
And they've built an entire businessmodel around going after potential clients
that have been serviced by local firmsthat were acquired by a top hundred.
(15:31):
Or firms that were being serviced bya firm that was acquired through PE or, or had PE money come in and now
staff has started to leave their salesproposal to, you know, bill, who's
a CEO of a $25 million manufacturingfirm is, how do you feel now being.
A little fish in a really big pond.
(15:51):
How do you feel that the partner youworked with for the last 18 years retired?
And since then, you've had three partnersand two managers on your job and they just continue to grow and grow from 18 people
four years ago to 47 people this yearprojected to be 60 by the end of the year.
Yeah, and solidly independent.
They can tell the storywith conviction to, yeah.
(16:13):
Prospective clients and employees.
We know who we are and that's gonna bewho we are as your career progresses.
Yep.
I want to talk to you about the perceived,and again, get your opinion on it.
I just had a conversation today witha candidate about this, the talent shortage in public accounting.
You know, obviously the pipeline,the 150 hour, all of that has
(16:38):
been a big discussion throughthe last two to three years.
Give me your thoughts onwhat you're seeing, again, from your perspective at PFS.
We could probably have a separatepodcast just on this subject, so I'll, I'll try and make it concise.
There is a shortage, sowe'll start with that.
(16:58):
There is a shortage.
Mm-hmm.
However, there are a lot of.
Interesting and maybe evenconflicting things going on.
So we'll go back to, a lot of firms areright sized, but is it the right people?
So this year, for the first time sincepre Covid, we're gonna see layoffs.
(17:20):
Now, we've seen layoffs in thelast couple of years from the Big four and a couple of the nationals.
This year we're gonna see itin greater frequency, and we're
gonna see it from firms that aresmaller that they finally say.
If somebody truly is a lowperformer, it's time for us to open up that spot and let's upgrade.
But if we look at demographics, justthe number of people that are going into accounting, although there was a recent
(17:44):
data point, the number going up, it maybe going up, but not enough to replace the baby boomers who are retiring.
Mm-hmm.
And then the next group of people,which are gonna be the older Gen Xs,
there is not a one-to-one ratio ofpeople going into the profession.
To retire them, right?
One thing that no one's talking aboutis the threat to the industry of people in their forties and fifties who decide
(18:12):
to either retire or take time offbecause they receive significant checks as part of a private equity buyout.
So what's gonna happen tothe industry when people say.
I've had enough.
I've been beaten up for the lastfive years straight with Covid
and Consulting on PPP and ERC andhere in California in Los Angeles.
(18:36):
We just had tax seasons extended forthe fourth out of the last six years.
So we've got complex tax rules.
The new administration, obviously thereis gonna be even new tax guidance.
The tax deadlines are changing.
It seems like we can never get a break.
Oh.
Here is money treated as capitalgains, not ordinary income that I never thought I'd get.
(18:58):
Maybe I'll just takea couple of years off.
The other issue with demographicsis, so my youngest son is almost 14, so he was born in 2011.
He was one of the fewborn during the recession.
So when we look at demographicsof years coming up, there are less people, there are just less births.
(19:22):
From 2000 to 2008 than there werein the, in the period before.
But now you get to 2009, 10, 11, 12.
The number is even worse.
It's probably 15% lowerthan it was pre-recession.
So we've got this next wave ofnot enough people, forget about who's going into accounting.
It's just a pure birth perspective.
(19:43):
Yep.
And then on the heels ofthat, you've got Covid.
And how the birth rate dropped duringCovid, so there will be less supply.
How the industry is makingup for this, part of it is offshoring, which it's a bandaid.
I mean, I think there's a place for it,but how are you gonna get a really good
(20:04):
senior, a really good manager to reviewwork when they've never prepared it?
And there are a lot of firmswhere the model is all the preparation happens offshore.
Mm-hmm.
It's a bandaid.
It's not gonna solve a lot of the issueof having people who can do the work.
People who can confidently interact withclients, interact with people in the team.
(20:26):
Then we've got the CPA issue.
I'm confident that at some point soonall the states are gonna get behind moving from 150 hours to 120 hours.
Yep, I agree.
Which removes one obstacle,which is the masters or tho those extra units of education.
We still have poor CPA exam pass rates.
(20:46):
We need to get all thestakeholders on the same page.
And so the stakeholders are the states,all the state societies, the ai CPA, but we need the universities on board.
Yeah.
When I went to school, and even thoughI wasn't an accounting graduate, I
knew a lot of accounting students andback then the exam was twice a year.
It was in May and November, and it wasunderstood, you're gonna take the exam.
(21:10):
The same month you graduatecollege and the expectation is you're gonna pass all four parts.
And, uh, came from a smallschool in Northern California, we had about a 50% pass rate.
Just pretty awesome.
But you knew that was the expectation.
Mm-hmm.
So we need to get the professorsand the schools on board.
The firms have a vested interest.
(21:31):
So whether it's paying for the coursework,not waiting till somebody passes and reimbursing, let's front the money.
Let's reward good behavior Employees.
Candidates need to know there's anexpectation that when you come in,
you're gonna sit for and pass theexam within a certain period of time.
You really want to incentivize 'em, createsome bonuses, including stay bonuses, that
(21:54):
in order to receive the money, they'vegotta stay for a certain period of time.
Yep.
And then there's responsibilityon the employees.
So all of the stakeholdershave a responsibility.
I'll give a final thought.
One of the reasons why so many peopleleave public accounting, so this is the worst type of attrition, which is
(22:14):
they just leave public accounting, isbecause I don't think they understand
the pot of gold at the end of therainbow, and it's not their fault.
Firms don't do a good enough job atletting them know how much they can make.
So the Rosenberg survey, whichincludes firms all over the country.
I think the most recentnumber I have is 2023.
(22:36):
The average partner made north of 600,000.
That's the average partner.
Now, that includes high cost of livingareas, low cost of living areas, small firms, big firms, big four, dear staff.
Really understand that's what theaverage partner makes, and I would argue, you know, it's even greater now.
Let's do a better job of makingsure that our staff understand what partnership is, not just.
(23:02):
The hours and the responsibilityand the potential liability.
But what about the goodstuff that comes with it?
It's not an easy path.
Let's don't kid ourselves.
And when I say that, I don'tmean it's an, it doesn't have to be harder than we make it.
And I think that's whatwe do in the industry.
I've always had a mindset, Allan, whenI hire people, I wanna hire them to
(23:25):
be extremely successful within theconfines of who we are and what we do.
I want to teach them how tobe increasingly successful year over year, over year.
I want them to make very good moneyand if somewhere along the way they
decide they want to go do this forthemselves and make more money.
(23:46):
Hey, let's figure out a wayto help you make that happen.
I don't wanna lose goodpeople, but that might happen.
And I've got people that have said to mefor years, well, gosh, you know, you're basically training your competition.
I tell 'em, no, I'm not.
I'm training great employees that ifthey stay and I didn't train them to be great, now I've got an average to
(24:07):
mediocre firm that I'm running becausethat's all I've got working for me.
But I've got exceptional talentthat I've sold that there is a great opportunity in this industry, whether
it's in partnership with my firm orI'm gonna teach you how to do this so well, you could go do it on your own.
Either way, as we talked about whenwe got on this call, we're rising the, we're increasing the level of the
(24:27):
water across the board, and all of ourboats are gonna go up because of it.
Completely agree.
Loved it.
You said that.
So I think that if we do that inthe industry and we can portray to the kids, the younger people coming
into this business, hey, there'ssome significant upside here.
Yes, there's some paying of dues,but the beautiful thing is there are a lot of great firms out there
(24:47):
that the dues that you had to pay20 years ago from a time investment aren't the dues you have to pay today.
Doesn't mean the work isn'tas hard, doesn't mean that it's not gonna be challenging.
It just means there couldbe a better path for you.
Let us help you get there.
Agreed.
One of the last questions I havefor you, and I want to get your
thoughts on, I had a client aboutsix months ago, they're now a client.
(25:08):
They weren't a client then hecalled and had a question for
me, and I've always thought itwas a very interesting question.
I. They ran a good firm.
As a firm internally, one of the thingsthat we do is we keep a list of the firms that we can't recruit people out of.
And what I say can't, Idon't mean they're a client.
We don't want to, or we,that's not what I mean.
What I mean is it doesn't matterwhat we dangle in front of them, people don't wanna leave.
(25:31):
Mm-hmm.
We keep a list of who those firmsare because those are the firms that we wanna do business with.
Those are the firms that ultimately,if the opportunity presents itself, we'd love to partner with them.
And so he and I were talking one day, hecalled me outta the blue and his question was, Hey John, what can we do to make our
(25:52):
firm bulletproof against recruiters likeyou calling in, trying to take our people?
And I've always thought thatwas an intriguing question.
So if, if someone says to you, Hey, Allan.
What can we do to bulletproof our firmso that when people from your firm or other firms call our people, they
won't talk to 'em, they don't wannaleave, they're good where they are.
(26:15):
What would you say to firmowners that have that question?
It, it probably doesn't exist, sowe can get as close to Bulletproof as possible, but the things that are
gonna make you close to Bulletproofmight scare some of your employees.
Because now what you're gonnahave is you're gonna have a high performance team, very likely a team
(26:39):
or a firm that's very profitable,and then comes into philosophy.
So two things that firmscan do with profits.
Distribute them to partners ascompensation or bonus, or reinvest them
somehow, which could be higher salaries,better benefits, better technology.
A lot of firms take those as profits.
(27:01):
So the firms that are making themselvesvirtually bulletproof are saying,
we don't need to make every lastdollar, we're gonna take some of that.
We're gonna reinvest it.
We're gonna make sure that ourpeople are in the top 10 percentile of salary across the board.
We're gonna have the best benefits,we're gonna have all of these things.
But that could scare some of your people.
(27:23):
Not everybody is built to be a highperforming employee, but in that case, those people are gonna self-select out.
Mm-hmm.
So I'll tell you aboutone firm that I work with.
So if you were to say, is there one firmthat comes to mind that really does this?
There are a couple, butthere's one I'll talk about.
(27:43):
They're here in Los Angeles.
The tax partner in chargeprobably bills 300 hours a year.
The industry average for our partners,probably a thousand, maybe 1100.
Yep.
And he says, my billingrate is exceptionally high.
I know that I could producea lot of revenue by billing a thousand hours a year.
(28:05):
However, my time is better spent oncreating my next generation of leaders.
And one of the things he said is,it would be irresponsible of me to not create my succession plan.
Not just mine, but theirs.
Yep.
And so instead of billing anotherseven or 800 hours a year, he spends that time with his team.
(28:29):
First interview is with him, and hespends an hour getting to know somebody.
And what he shares is his vision.
And his vision is unlike anybodyelse's I've ever spoken with.
95% of candidates that interviewthere and interview elsewhere say, I don't wanna interview anywhere else.
This is where I want to be.
(28:49):
So the 5% that say it's notfor me are saying I'm mediocre.
You know, I am not elite.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
Because there is absolutely a place forpeople that aren't in the top five or 10%.
And so you could design something wherepeople aren't gonna get poached out.
(29:10):
But when you create that type ofenvironment, there are gonna be people that say, I don't belong.
And so either they'll leaveon their own or they will be susceptible to that InMail.
And they absolutely come.
Doesn't matter who the firm is.
Well, Allan, I'm, I'm veryimpressed with a lot of the things that you're talking about.
(29:31):
A lot of the things that you'reobviously doing with your team and the
business that you've built over 20 plusyears, two decades doing this is I.
Something to be commended for.
It is amazing what you guys continueto do in your firm and the impact that you're making in the CPA firm space.
So if there are firm leaders that wantto get in touch with you about helping with their recruiting processes or have
(29:52):
questions about what you are seeingin the industry, or if there's even possible candidates that are considering
a job move sometime in the near future,what is the best way for people to reach out and get on your calendar?
Email, text.
I've got a Calendly link on LinkedInand I, I love speaking with partners
(30:14):
about the market, about some ofthe things you and I talked about.
So even if it's just sharing information.
Mm-hmm.
John, I think I'm like youpassionate about the industry.
Even a little nerdy as it relatesto public accounting and why it's such an amazing profession.
So I, I welcome the opportunitiesto talk with partners and leaders in public accounting.
(30:37):
We'll make sure that in the shownotes that we put your email address,
a link to your LinkedIn profile, andalso a link to your Calendly link.
So if anybody wants to grab some timeon your calendar, they can do that.
So, Allan, i I, I want to thank youfor carving out a little bit of time and spending that with us today because
you've given a lot of insight intowhat you're seeing in the industry.
So thank you very much.
(30:59):
Thank you for the opportunity.
And more importantly, thanks for allyou're doing to elevate the industry
of recruiting and elevate and amplifyawareness to public accounting.
I, I, I appreciate that.
That means a lot, Allan.
I, I want to thank you again, and forthose of you that invested a little
bit of your time today listening toAllan and I talk, we appreciate that.
(31:20):
If you like what you heard, pleaseleave us a comment down below.
Subscribe on the platform or your choicebecause the last thing that you wanna do is miss any of the episodes that we have
coming up with some pretty amazing guestsas we spend a little bit more time talking about this thing that we call CPA Life.
Until next time,
(31:41):
we hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite podcasting app.
Leave a five star rating and visitour website for links and show notes at CPALifePodcast.com dot com.
We'll see you next time on CPA Life
(32:07):
Professional Productions net.
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life wherewe now rejoin John Randolph for part
two of his conversation with AllanFisher of Premier Financial Search.
Their continuing discussion on thewinds of change within the accounting
profession from a recruiter's pointof view is one you don't want to miss.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
You know, as an example, if you're inDallas, you're not just going up against
firms in Dallas, which philosophicallymay be exactly the same as you.
Well, now you're going up againstfirms in California and New York, and Atlanta and Chicago that
(00:44):
philosophically are very different interms of the ways they treat people.
So.
Lazy sticks out.
And with that one opportunityto make a first impression, it's
unlikely the candidate's gonnawant that second interview.
I, I like how you put that Allanl. Lazy absolutely does stick out.
That doesn't mean that you have to putforth exceptional over the top effort if you probably just do the effort.
(01:10):
That's gonna stand out versus a lotof other people in the marketplace.
And you bring up a really good point.
I want to kind of steerdown that path a little bit.
You know the fact that you'renow competing as a firm owner.
As a firm leader, you're competing againstfirms literally all over the country.
And again, pre Covid you were probablydealing with stereotypical, traditional firms that were, we're gonna provide
(01:37):
a little bit of all the services toa little bit of all the industries.
Mm-hmm.
Today.
There is an opportunity that thisguy who's sitting at a top a hundred firm, where 50% of his book that he
may be working on in the tax spaceor audit space is in real estate.
And man, he really loves the realestate piece of the business.
(01:58):
There's a chance that he's interviewingwith a couple of top a hundred firms in his marketplace, but he's
probably also interviewing with threeor four firms that are, you know, spread out throughout the country.
Who are 100% real estate boutiqueniche firms, they're granular in
what they do and they can sellsomething different to that guy.
Tell me what you've seen from, youknow, the difference in boutique
(02:19):
firms versus, you know, let'sjust say a top a hundred firm.
Why would someone pickthat versus the other?
There are a lot of stereotypesout there, and we hear it all the time from candidates.
If I go to a smaller firm, I'mgonna be giving something up.
Maybe it's technical complexity,maybe it's access to resources.
Maybe they can't pay the same, and maybethat's true of some small firms, but if we're really talking about boutique firms.
(02:46):
Most of the ones I work with, theycompete with the nationals and in some cases with the Big Four
in terms of the sophisticationof things that they come up with.
If we were to look at some of theindustry-wide metrics, and we were to say, average firm is $250,000 of revenue
per employee, there are boutique firmsthat we work with where it's double that
(03:08):
they're unbelievably profitable and withintheir space, which could be real estate.
It could be high net worth andultra high net worth individuals.
They've got a dream list ofclients that they work with.
Yep.
And the work that they do.
It's interesting.
The clients are interesting.
The types of transactionsthat you're gonna see, you're not gonna see anywhere else.
(03:32):
Right.
And they're very successful.
So I really think what we're dealingwith, or what we're up against is just the preconceived notions candidates have.
And so.
With a lot of the firms we work with,we've been working with them for two
decades, and so we really have the abilityto become, for them, the storyteller.
(03:53):
If you're a boutique firm of 30 employees,you can tell your story to your clients, but the world doesn't know who you are.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where the recruitercomes in, is we advocate for you.
We tell the story.
We know.
You've got something special to offer.
We know how you rank versus all theother firms we work with in those, we
(04:13):
don't, we can shout it from the rooftopsand get a candidate to understand it.
You know, the amount of placementsthat we've made of clients that have no website, they are leaders in what
they do, and they don't care aboutwho in the world knows who they are.
Mm-hmm.
You're up against firmsthat have no website.
They don't give you a jobdescription, but you know that they're doing something spectacular.
(04:36):
So that's where, like, in my opinion,the boutique firms, they've got something extraordinary to offer and many wanna
stay independent in, in a marketwhere the consolidation is happening
at a breathtaking pace, knowing whoyou are is also really important.
I think that's a great point.
I, it's one of the things we talk to ourclients about all the time is the more
(05:00):
you can put that stake in the groundand know who you are and who you're not.
The easier it is to tell thatstory and paint that picture for that person that we're talking to.
And I think that you'recompletely on point there, Allan.
A decade ago there was probablysome validity to the complexity of the work, the compensation,
the challenge of what I'm gonna bedoing, the opportunity for growth.
(05:22):
There was probably a decade ago wheresome of that, I won't say all of it.
I won't say all the time, butthere was a large part that probably had a lot of truth to it.
But in this post Covid world 2025, we'redealing with like you we're seeing less.
Issues between, like you said,the complexity of the work, the compensation that you're dealing with.
(05:43):
There's a lot of parity in thatspace now in top a hundred firms, national firms, and that local firm.
And I think it is because when thosepeople niche down so far in granular, like I'm talking about, there's a price
point that their customers are willingto pay for the value they bring to the table and they can afford to pay people.
You know what somebody's gonna bemaking at a top a hundred firm doing work that maybe isn't as complex.
(06:09):
One of the things I want to ask youabout as it pertains to compensation and what you're seeing in the marketplace,
and again, just seeing what you'regetting from your clients, there's still the perception in the marketplace.
I think to a certain degree that if weoffer an amazing culture, if we offer a better work-life bAllance, people
(06:30):
are willing to take less money thanwhat is competitive in the marketplace.
What are you seeing around that typeof a mindset with some firms and the candidates they're looking at?
Um, so there's, there'salways gonna be a disconnect.
Between what firms feel is fairand what employees feel is fair.
(06:52):
Um, so let's, let's accept thatThere's always gonna be a little bit of disappointment, but I, I think what
you're asking is, is there a certaincontingent of candidates who will leave money on the table in exchange
for other things, quality of life, theright opportunities, sophistication, shorter commute, all the other things?
(07:16):
Yes.
There is gonna be a certain contingent.
It's not a big contingent salaryis the scorecard for employees.
I imagine a conversation around theThanksgiving table where somebody says, I, I just got a new job.
Oh, how much do you make?
How much more money did youmake for accepting the job?
I actually took less, but hear meout, I've got a shorter commute.
(07:40):
Everyone stopped listening at that point.
But we're also in a market wherethere is a free agent premium.
We're in the type of market whereaccepting a pure lateral, it's just not the market condition.
There's always a free agentpremium to make a move.
The only time that free agentpremium is zero is in a recession where there's stability.
(08:05):
So staying put is the risk.
They're moving for stability.
In any other market, there's alwaysgonna be an amount that somebody should get just for making a move.
It's the risk premium.
I'm going somewhere new.
It's a new relationship.
I've gotta make a little bit more.
So, you know, for firms to think thatthere shouldn't be that implied risk premium, that definitely is not the case.
(08:27):
Yep.
On the subject to salary, we dosomething really valuable as a service to the industry here in California.
And we do this in conjunctionwith the Cal Society of CPAs.
So we produce an annual salary survey,and it started about a dozen years ago
when the finished product was a page Lastyear, the finished product was 84 pages.
(08:52):
To me, I, I consider it the bible ofevery metric for CPA firms in California.
And we had 50 plus firms participate.
And so, you know, when it comesto what should somebody make?
How many billable hours should,on average, are people working?
How much?
How many overtime, hours?
What are the billing rates?
We have the data and so weunderstand, and when I say we, I mean recruiters in general.
(09:18):
Mm-hmm.
Because we're asking whatare your expectations?
And we know what the market is,but having your finger on the pulse
of what is going on with salaries,but also all the other things.
You're making, but in exchangefor how many chargeable hours and
how many overtime hours and whatwould it be like at another firm?
So it's really become the industrystandard for salary reviews and increases.
(09:41):
And we put the finished producttogether in June, and we have a lot of firms that say.
We're not gonna go through ourreviews until July because we wanna see what the data is.
We wanna get a sense ofwhat the market's saying.
And when you have that data, you canmake much better informed decisions for your customers, allowing them
to make better decisions for theiremployees, that kind of thing.
(10:03):
One of the things that I think ismoving the needle a little bit with compensation as well as hiring and
retention in general, which we're talkingabout, you know, globally here is.
The elephant in the room kind of thingright now in, in public accounting, that is the, the insertion of private equity.
From your lens, from your perspectiveon the west coast, looking back this way, what are you seeing the
(10:27):
impact of private equity impactinghiring retention in the marketplace?
It's more of a negative than a positive.
Full disclosure, I have two clients.
That are directly owned by private equity,and I've got another two clients that
there's what we call a platform betweenthem and the actual private equity firm.
(10:51):
So I do work with firmsthat have received PE money.
There's some resentment in the market.
The feeling that the sellingshareholders did very well at what cost to everybody else who's here,
does partnership still look thesame as it did pre private equity?
And it's not just private equity.
(11:13):
BDO is now an esop.
Grossi in New York is now an esop.
There are other firms that I knoware considering going this way.
Markham was acquired or merged with CBIZ.
CBIZ is publicly held.
So we have brand new ownershipstructures and the, I think the
question from the employee's mindis, how does this benefit me?
(11:34):
Mm-hmm.
And without the firm being able to clearlyarticulate how it benefits them, people are gonna develop their own stories.
And most of those stories don'tcompute well for the firm.
No.
So.
We've placed a considerable numberof people out of firms that have
recently earned the last couple ofyears taken private equity money.
(11:56):
Mm-hmm.
There's discontent, GrantThornton, Baker Tilly.
Again, the list of firms that are goingthis direction continues to increase.
It'll be interesting what developsover the next couple of years.
So I, I started recruiting and the earlieriteration of this was American Express.
Yes.
Which.
Came into the market in a big way byacquiring firms that were primarily tax practices or in Los Angeles
(12:22):
entertainment practices, and thehope was they would be able to sell financial services to their clients.
It, it ended up being great forthe firms that sold, because after those agreements expired, they
were able to just go on business asusual, plus they got their payment.
It'll be interesting tosee the evolution of this.
(12:42):
But I would say the number of peoplethat we've placed out of private equity
dwarfs the number of people we placed intofirms that are owned by private equity.
I, I would have to concur with that.
And I will tell you, there's a,there's a couple of firms that we, I.
Work with that have taken on privateequity infusions over the last year.
(13:03):
There's a couple that we don't workwith, but we know the leadership there.
Tell me if you're seeing thesame thing where we see it working and I'm like you, I'm I.
I live through the days of privateequity moving into the staffing
space, which is very similarto the public accounting space.
It's a knowledge based industry.
When you start cutting, which is oneof the things they do, you don't have
(13:24):
plants, you don't have equipment, youdon't have raw materials, you got people.
That's it.
I make no bones about it.
I'm not a big fan of private equity,but there's a handful of firms that I've seen that are doing something
really well and it touches on what yousaid, and that is amazing transparency.
Very open communication with line staff.
(13:45):
The firms that are doing well aredoing that exceptionally well.
There aren't a lot ofthem, but you're right.
It's where there's transparency,where it's very clear what everybody
gained through the transaction, whatsome of the pain points might be.
Interestingly, I've had a couple ofclients that have gone down the road.
They've explored it.
(14:07):
And maybe they've been turned off andthey've said, we're gonna double down on the fact that we're independent.
And I think having gone down thatroad, explored it, flirting with the idea and saying No, makes them
even a stronger employer of choicethan somebody who isn't quite sure.
(14:28):
Or somebody that may be susceptible tofomo, and there's a lot of that right now.
There's, yep.
You know, I think most private equityfirms want to have a CPA firm in their portfolio, and most owners have good
friends, former partners, people thatthey golf with that have gone down that road, and it's easy to be seduced.
(14:49):
Yep.
We've got a client here in themarketplace and probably over the last five years, six years, you know, even
before private equity came in wherethere was just a consolidation of top
a hundred firms moving into marketswhere they didn't have a footprint.
Baker, Tilly, Moss, Adams carrigs buying up local firms, these
guys doubled down and made thedecision we're not gonna sell.
(15:10):
We like who we are.
We know who we are.
We don't feel like we needto be anybody different.
Private equity started coming in.
They explored it.
They decided that's notthe path we want to go on.
We know who we are.
We like who we are.
We're gonna stay on this path.
And they've built an entire businessmodel around going after potential clients
that have been serviced by local firmsthat were acquired by a top hundred.
(15:31):
Or firms that were being serviced bya firm that was acquired through PE or, or had PE money come in and now
staff has started to leave their salesproposal to, you know, bill, who's
a CEO of a $25 million manufacturingfirm is, how do you feel now being.
A little fish in a really big pond.
(15:51):
How do you feel that the partner youworked with for the last 18 years retired?
And since then, you've had three partnersand two managers on your job and they just continue to grow and grow from 18 people
four years ago to 47 people this yearprojected to be 60 by the end of the year.
Yeah, and solidly independent.
They can tell the storywith conviction to, yeah.
(16:13):
Prospective clients and employees.
We know who we are and that's gonna bewho we are as your career progresses.
Yep.
I want to talk to you about the perceived,and again, get your opinion on it.
I just had a conversation today witha candidate about this, the talent shortage in public accounting.
You know, obviously the pipeline,the 150 hour, all of that has
(16:38):
been a big discussion throughthe last two to three years.
Give me your thoughts onwhat you're seeing, again, from your perspective at PFS.
We could probably have a separatepodcast just on this subject, so I'll, I'll try and make it concise.
There is a shortage, sowe'll start with that.
(16:58):
There is a shortage.
Mm-hmm.
However, there are a lot of.
Interesting and maybe evenconflicting things going on.
So we'll go back to, a lot of firms areright sized, but is it the right people?
So this year, for the first time sincepre Covid, we're gonna see layoffs.
(17:20):
Now, we've seen layoffs in thelast couple of years from the Big four and a couple of the nationals.
This year we're gonna see itin greater frequency, and we're
gonna see it from firms that aresmaller that they finally say.
If somebody truly is a lowperformer, it's time for us to open up that spot and let's upgrade.
But if we look at demographics, justthe number of people that are going into accounting, although there was a recent
(17:44):
data point, the number going up, it maybe going up, but not enough to replace the baby boomers who are retiring.
Mm-hmm.
And then the next group of people,which are gonna be the older Gen Xs,
there is not a one-to-one ratio ofpeople going into the profession.
To retire them, right?
One thing that no one's talking aboutis the threat to the industry of people in their forties and fifties who decide
(18:12):
to either retire or take time offbecause they receive significant checks as part of a private equity buyout.
So what's gonna happen tothe industry when people say.
I've had enough.
I've been beaten up for the lastfive years straight with Covid
and Consulting on PPP and ERC andhere in California in Los Angeles.
(18:36):
We just had tax seasons extended forthe fourth out of the last six years.
So we've got complex tax rules.
The new administration, obviously thereis gonna be even new tax guidance.
The tax deadlines are changing.
It seems like we can never get a break.
Oh.
Here is money treated as capitalgains, not ordinary income that I never thought I'd get.
(18:58):
Maybe I'll just takea couple of years off.
The other issue with demographicsis, so my youngest son is almost 14, so he was born in 2011.
He was one of the fewborn during the recession.
So when we look at demographicsof years coming up, there are less people, there are just less births.
(19:22):
From 2000 to 2008 than there werein the, in the period before.
But now you get to 2009, 10, 11, 12.
The number is even worse.
It's probably 15% lowerthan it was pre-recession.
So we've got this next wave ofnot enough people, forget about who's going into accounting.
It's just a pure birth perspective.
(19:43):
Yep.
And then on the heels ofthat, you've got Covid.
And how the birth rate dropped duringCovid, so there will be less supply.
How the industry is makingup for this, part of it is offshoring, which it's a bandaid.
I mean, I think there's a place for it,but how are you gonna get a really good
(20:04):
senior, a really good manager to reviewwork when they've never prepared it?
And there are a lot of firmswhere the model is all the preparation happens offshore.
Mm-hmm.
It's a bandaid.
It's not gonna solve a lot of the issueof having people who can do the work.
People who can confidently interact withclients, interact with people in the team.
(20:26):
Then we've got the CPA issue.
I'm confident that at some point soonall the states are gonna get behind moving from 150 hours to 120 hours.
Yep, I agree.
Which removes one obstacle,which is the masters or tho those extra units of education.
We still have poor CPA exam pass rates.
(20:46):
We need to get all thestakeholders on the same page.
And so the stakeholders are the states,all the state societies, the ai CPA, but we need the universities on board.
Yeah.
When I went to school, and even thoughI wasn't an accounting graduate, I
knew a lot of accounting students andback then the exam was twice a year.
It was in May and November, and it wasunderstood, you're gonna take the exam.
(21:10):
The same month you graduatecollege and the expectation is you're gonna pass all four parts.
And, uh, came from a smallschool in Northern California, we had about a 50% pass rate.
Just pretty awesome.
But you knew that was the expectation.
Mm-hmm.
So we need to get the professorsand the schools on board.
The firms have a vested interest.
(21:31):
So whether it's paying for the coursework,not waiting till somebody passes and reimbursing, let's front the money.
Let's reward good behavior Employees.
Candidates need to know there's anexpectation that when you come in,
you're gonna sit for and pass theexam within a certain period of time.
You really want to incentivize 'em, createsome bonuses, including stay bonuses, that
(21:54):
in order to receive the money, they'vegotta stay for a certain period of time.
Yep.
And then there's responsibilityon the employees.
So all of the stakeholdershave a responsibility.
I'll give a final thought.
One of the reasons why so many peopleleave public accounting, so this is the worst type of attrition, which is
(22:14):
they just leave public accounting, isbecause I don't think they understand
the pot of gold at the end of therainbow, and it's not their fault.
Firms don't do a good enough job atletting them know how much they can make.
So the Rosenberg survey, whichincludes firms all over the country.
I think the most recentnumber I have is 2023.
(22:36):
The average partner made north of 600,000.
That's the average partner.
Now, that includes high cost of livingareas, low cost of living areas, small firms, big firms, big four, dear staff.
Really understand that's what theaverage partner makes, and I would argue, you know, it's even greater now.
Let's do a better job of makingsure that our staff understand what partnership is, not just.
(23:02):
The hours and the responsibilityand the potential liability.
But what about the goodstuff that comes with it?
It's not an easy path.
Let's don't kid ourselves.
And when I say that, I don'tmean it's an, it doesn't have to be harder than we make it.
And I think that's whatwe do in the industry.
I've always had a mindset, Allan, whenI hire people, I wanna hire them to
(23:25):
be extremely successful within theconfines of who we are and what we do.
I want to teach them how tobe increasingly successful year over year, over year.
I want them to make very good moneyand if somewhere along the way they
decide they want to go do this forthemselves and make more money.
(23:46):
Hey, let's figure out a wayto help you make that happen.
I don't wanna lose goodpeople, but that might happen.
And I've got people that have said to mefor years, well, gosh, you know, you're basically training your competition.
I tell 'em, no, I'm not.
I'm training great employees that ifthey stay and I didn't train them to be great, now I've got an average to
(24:07):
mediocre firm that I'm running becausethat's all I've got working for me.
But I've got exceptional talentthat I've sold that there is a great opportunity in this industry, whether
it's in partnership with my firm orI'm gonna teach you how to do this so well, you could go do it on your own.
Either way, as we talked about whenwe got on this call, we're rising the, we're increasing the level of the
(24:27):
water across the board, and all of ourboats are gonna go up because of it.
Completely agree.
Loved it.
You said that.
So I think that if we do that inthe industry and we can portray to the kids, the younger people coming
into this business, hey, there'ssome significant upside here.
Yes, there's some paying of dues,but the beautiful thing is there are a lot of great firms out there
(24:47):
that the dues that you had to pay20 years ago from a time investment aren't the dues you have to pay today.
Doesn't mean the work isn'tas hard, doesn't mean that it's not gonna be challenging.
It just means there couldbe a better path for you.
Let us help you get there.
Agreed.
One of the last questions I havefor you, and I want to get your
thoughts on, I had a client aboutsix months ago, they're now a client.
(25:08):
They weren't a client then hecalled and had a question for
me, and I've always thought itwas a very interesting question.
I. They ran a good firm.
As a firm internally, one of the thingsthat we do is we keep a list of the firms that we can't recruit people out of.
And what I say can't, Idon't mean they're a client.
We don't want to, or we,that's not what I mean.
What I mean is it doesn't matterwhat we dangle in front of them, people don't wanna leave.
(25:31):
Mm-hmm.
We keep a list of who those firmsare because those are the firms that we wanna do business with.
Those are the firms that ultimately,if the opportunity presents itself, we'd love to partner with them.
And so he and I were talking one day, hecalled me outta the blue and his question was, Hey John, what can we do to make our
(25:52):
firm bulletproof against recruiters likeyou calling in, trying to take our people?
And I've always thought thatwas an intriguing question.
So if, if someone says to you, Hey, Allan.
What can we do to bulletproof our firmso that when people from your firm or other firms call our people, they
won't talk to 'em, they don't wannaleave, they're good where they are.
(26:15):
What would you say to firmowners that have that question?
It, it probably doesn't exist, sowe can get as close to Bulletproof as possible, but the things that are
gonna make you close to Bulletproofmight scare some of your employees.
Because now what you're gonnahave is you're gonna have a high performance team, very likely a team
(26:39):
or a firm that's very profitable,and then comes into philosophy.
So two things that firmscan do with profits.
Distribute them to partners ascompensation or bonus, or reinvest them
somehow, which could be higher salaries,better benefits, better technology.
A lot of firms take those as profits.
(27:01):
So the firms that are making themselvesvirtually bulletproof are saying,
we don't need to make every lastdollar, we're gonna take some of that.
We're gonna reinvest it.
We're gonna make sure that ourpeople are in the top 10 percentile of salary across the board.
We're gonna have the best benefits,we're gonna have all of these things.
But that could scare some of your people.
(27:23):
Not everybody is built to be a highperforming employee, but in that case, those people are gonna self-select out.
Mm-hmm.
So I'll tell you aboutone firm that I work with.
So if you were to say, is there one firmthat comes to mind that really does this?
There are a couple, butthere's one I'll talk about.
(27:43):
They're here in Los Angeles.
The tax partner in chargeprobably bills 300 hours a year.
The industry average for our partners,probably a thousand, maybe 1100.
Yep.
And he says, my billingrate is exceptionally high.
I know that I could producea lot of revenue by billing a thousand hours a year.
(28:05):
However, my time is better spent oncreating my next generation of leaders.
And one of the things he said is,it would be irresponsible of me to not create my succession plan.
Not just mine, but theirs.
Yep.
And so instead of billing anotherseven or 800 hours a year, he spends that time with his team.
(28:29):
First interview is with him, and hespends an hour getting to know somebody.
And what he shares is his vision.
And his vision is unlike anybodyelse's I've ever spoken with.
95% of candidates that interviewthere and interview elsewhere say, I don't wanna interview anywhere else.
This is where I want to be.
(28:49):
So the 5% that say it's notfor me are saying I'm mediocre.
You know, I am not elite.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
Because there is absolutely a place forpeople that aren't in the top five or 10%.
And so you could design something wherepeople aren't gonna get poached out.
(29:10):
But when you create that type ofenvironment, there are gonna be people that say, I don't belong.
And so either they'll leaveon their own or they will be susceptible to that InMail.
And they absolutely come.
Doesn't matter who the firm is.
Well, Allan, I'm, I'm veryimpressed with a lot of the things that you're talking about.
(29:31):
A lot of the things that you'reobviously doing with your team and the
business that you've built over 20 plusyears, two decades doing this is I.
Something to be commended for.
It is amazing what you guys continueto do in your firm and the impact that you're making in the CPA firm space.
So if there are firm leaders that wantto get in touch with you about helping with their recruiting processes or have
(29:52):
questions about what you are seeingin the industry, or if there's even possible candidates that are considering
a job move sometime in the near future,what is the best way for people to reach out and get on your calendar?
Email, text.
I've got a Calendly link on LinkedInand I, I love speaking with partners
(30:14):
about the market, about some ofthe things you and I talked about.
So even if it's just sharing information.
Mm-hmm.
John, I think I'm like youpassionate about the industry.
Even a little nerdy as it relatesto public accounting and why it's such an amazing profession.
So I, I welcome the opportunitiesto talk with partners and leaders in public accounting.
(30:37):
We'll make sure that in the shownotes that we put your email address,
a link to your LinkedIn profile, andalso a link to your Calendly link.
So if anybody wants to grab some timeon your calendar, they can do that.
So, Allan, i I, I want to thank youfor carving out a little bit of time and spending that with us today because
you've given a lot of insight intowhat you're seeing in the industry.
So thank you very much.
(30:59):
Thank you for the opportunity.
And more importantly, thanks for allyou're doing to elevate the industry
of recruiting and elevate and amplifyawareness to public accounting.
I, I, I appreciate that.
That means a lot, Allan.
I, I want to thank you again, and forthose of you that invested a little
bit of your time today listening toAllan and I talk, we appreciate that.
(31:20):
If you like what you heard, pleaseleave us a comment down below.
Subscribe on the platform or your choicebecause the last thing that you wanna do is miss any of the episodes that we have
coming up with some pretty amazing guestsas we spend a little bit more time talking about this thing that we call CPA Life.
Until next time,
(31:41):
we hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite podcasting app.
Leave a five star rating and visitour website for links and show notes at CPALifePodcast.com dot com.
We'll see you next time on CPA Life
(32:07):
Professional Productions net.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.