February 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Continuing the momentum of the new Season 3 of CPA Life is this special two part conversation between John Randolph and Chris Johnson, CEO of CJ CPAs in San Antonio, Texas. Chris started his career in a way typical of many accounting professionals, with a spell in the Big Four and with a local firm before being presented with an unusual opportunity that ultimately led to him founding CJ CPAs. And although many firms claim to value their employees, be committed to work-life balance and innovative practices, and so forth, Chris has proven they mean what they say, with an offered 50K sign-on bonus (the highest publicly known bonus in American accounting history) being one such indicator that they do things a little bit differently. Tune in for part one of this conversation with insights on the value of real honesty, data-driven decisions, and building a culture that nurtures personal and professional growth.
Get the full show notes and more resources at CPALifePodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Thanks for tuning in to CPA life, wherewe talk culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in an
industry that has been stuck with a we'vealways done it that way mindset for far too long, join host John Randolph and
learn how a sustainable family friendlycareer in public accounting doesn't have to be the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA life.
Hey folks, we are back with a new seasonof the CPA life podcast, and we are Looking forward to bringing you some
more engaging conversations with today'sfirm leaders and industry insiders who
are really passionate about building amore people centric accounting world.
(00:46):
And today we are joined bysomebody who's doing just that.
Chris Johnson is the CEO.
Of CJ CPAs, which is a public accountingfirm based in San Antonio, Texas, that specializes in the assurance services
for the construction industry andperforming employee benefit plan audits.
So Chris, welcome to the show today.
Thank you so much for having me.
(01:07):
I want to say just love what you're doing.
The.
Community, the content that'sput, putting it out there.
I absolutely love that.
And just fantastic that we have theseresources available to people who
want to know a little bit more aboutwhat's going on and the inside look.
And, and there definitelyis a lot going on.
(01:27):
So, so we're going to diginto some of those things.
We're going to, I'll go ahead and I'llfire a shot over the bow of some of
the things that I really am lookingforward to talking to you about.
learning more about the fact that you'vepretty much been recording almost all your interactions in life over the last year or
two and kind of what drove that decisionand what you've learned from that.
We're going to talk a littlebit about a line that I saw.
(01:50):
I don't remember if it was on yourLinkedIn profile on your website, but
it said, we believe that our successis built through valuing our employees.
And treating them with the utmost respect,which that's a great thing to say.
And I think a lot of firms say thatit's one of those wonderful placeholders to put on a website, but it's really
putting it into practice and somethings that you guys are doing are putting those things into practice.
(02:12):
I want to learn more about pick to print.
Looks like a really cool endeavorthat you've got going on.
And then of course, we're going to talkabout the big thing, which is the elephant in the room, the 50 K sign on bonus that
you had out in the public marketplace fora while, which I'm sure that you've had a lot of conversations surrounding that.
So what I want to diginto that a little bit.
So before we get into all of that,one of the things that we like to do is kind of understand your history,
(02:37):
your journey about where you'vebeen to get to where you are today.
So kind of walk us through.
Your journey, your path comingout of college, you had kind of
a traditional career trajectorycoming out of college, correct?
Yes, I did.
Right out of the gate, followed thestandard path, like many accountants
(02:59):
and CPAs of just seeing a wellstructured, safe career path.
And everything was standard,up until it wasn't.
So did an internship towards the endof my College career, uh, with PKD and then went on full time with them.
After that, there was a local firm inSan Antonio called Paget Strautman.
(03:25):
But it was the largest firm in SanAntonio, which for a major city, it's just not common that a local firm with
about 100, 150 people would be thelargest one in a top 10 city in terms of population size in the country.
But had heard that they had figuredout how to do this public accounting
thing without burning people out andsaid, you know what, let's check it out.
(03:47):
So went over and fantastic.
If I was still around, couldsee myself still being there.
Uh, but they were subsequently acquired byour RSM and then, uh, they're, they're a lot, a lot of the similar things, uh, uh,
that happened when trying to manage 10,000 people, uh, that come along with that.
So, uh, while there met my wife,who is also a CPA and after.
(04:10):
Our first child, I was looking to leaveto go traditional route, take a position
with a construction company, controllerto CFO, follow the well beaten path.
And then a friend of mine from BKDreached out and said, Oh, hey, I'm at this well established tax firm.
(04:32):
We don't have an audit practice.
They want to talk to you,the partners of the firm.
And I was 90 percent certainthat I was going to go to another construction company, wellbeing path.
And I went to Perry's andthey got me a pork chop
and I got there and they said,you're our guy, we want you to do it.
(04:54):
And in my head, I'mlike, no, no, no, no, no.
You don't realize I don't, I don'tknow nothing about starting an audit practice, what to do there.
Like y'all don't want that.
And they said, no, no, no, no, no.
We're about finding the right people.
And everything else will fall in line.
We have faith in you that you'll do it.
Wow.
Incredible.
So over this lunch, then one of the thingsthey actually told me, you know, if you have a little bit of entrepreneurial
(05:17):
spirit about you, you can come overhere, start this, the check's going to clear and you can get some of that.
So I thought it was just too crazyof an opportunity not to pass up.
And that's been so much of my careerhas just been the next logical step.
Yep.
It's like, it seems like a lot, maybea lot of risk to some folks, but it
(05:38):
is, if you're right there with the lifeexperiences, it is the next logical step.
So, so came over, started the auditpractice for him, came in day one.
I said, okay, wait, so how doyou build an audit practice?
Like, no, no, no, no, no, literally.
We don't know, but we can figure it out.
So I just started picking up the phoneand I was calling people in the city.
And if I didn't find the answer in thecity, I called people in the state.
(05:58):
If I didn't find the answer in thestate, I called people in the country and then the world and just kept on.
And I did that for twoand a half to three years.
Wow.
Wow.
And probably a great learning experience.
Absolutely.
And massively grateful for thatopportunity, but it was that,
that situation of, I mean, I'mnot going to let these folks down.
(06:20):
So, so we, uh, went, wentin and where it was able to.
Get the practice started and then likepushing a boulder over a hill, when that thing got to the top, it started picking
up and then as we were, we were pickingup speed, the partners actually said,
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, we don't want to do audit anymore.
We're starting to now realize allthe other things that come along
(06:43):
with the different independenceand all these other items.
Okay, but you know what?
You have built this practice.
Take it.
Wow.
And so then we went and it was ableto break off the practice it had built over the couple of years.
It was able to dive in and startedCJCPAs, which is an assurance only.
(07:05):
We don't do any tax, we can hardly spellit, but we lean, we lean into amazing relationships, uh, with, with other folks
to do that so that we can just stay inour lane and truly be on this route to be the best in the world at what we do.
Isn't it amazing sometimes how youlook back on past and how those opportunities come about and you
(07:26):
realize had, like you said, had thisnot stacked on this and this not stacked on that, I would probably go out on a
limb and say coming out of, you know,where you were in your career at RSM.
I gotta believe, again, stereotypicalmindset of an accountant and behaviors of an accountant.
Would you have one day at this agestepped out on your own, started your own firm, phone caution of the wind?
(07:51):
Let's see what happens here.
But Leaving under anumbrella, building it.
Those guys saying, Hey,this isn't us anymore.
Take it and run with it.
Now they're outside looking in.
I can see how other folks might look atsome of the things that we do saying, Oh my goodness, there's so much risk here.
(08:11):
I'm like, I am a risk averse accountant.
I am that, but the way that, that Igo through and get comfort with what is perceived to be risk information
and understanding and the gapbetween what I knew at the time of leaving RSM to starting a firm.
(08:33):
Too big to do that, but then just slowlyday by day getting comfort with it.
But even when it was presented to me, Isaid, Oh man, that's, that's terrifying.
And I stayed up till two in the morning,many, many nights reading the Texas
state public board of accountancyact to say, what is all the things?
(08:55):
What am I not?
No, I, I reached out to alawyer who has worked with many accounting firms in San Antonio.
And I said, can I just get a couple hoursof your time just to pick your brain?
And every step that I took in thatjust gave me more confidence and
realized that the perceived riskthat I had was just ignorance.
Yep, I think that's a great saying thatI think more of us need to embrace and understand is that it's, it's a perceived
(09:21):
risk and the reality is it's justignorance and it can be overcome with
information, research, data, and beingable to bridge that gap just a little bit.
I love it.
And yeah, along those lines, one thingthat I always say is the guy with all
the money under his mattress thinks thathe's the least risky person out there.
(09:41):
He's like, what are y'all talking about?
Put your money in the bank.
I got my money under the mattress.
But with a little bit more information,you realize that is the riskiest thing
you can do because inflation is eatingaway at that, turning that to zero.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's getting the data to supportthe decisions that you're making.
And it's very apparent, you know, lookingat what you guys have done, looking at what you're doing, looking at the way
(10:04):
that you're approaching, you know, a lotof the things that you guys are doing at CJCPAs, there's a lot of data driven.
Decisions being made.
It's not just flying by the seatof your pants and, you know, throwing caution to the wind.
Hey, let's try this, which brings usto really, you know, kind of the big thing that connected you and I on, you
(10:25):
know, was the flashing light that gotmy attention was 50 K sign on bonus.
And honestly, and we haven't talkedabout this, but one of the reasons why that caught my attention is because
one of the conversations, a lot oftimes that I'll have with our potential clients on the recruiting side of our
business is have you thought outside ofthe box and done some of these things
(10:46):
that you may look at on the surface andgo, man, that just doesn't make sense.
But the flip side of this is ifyou hire me to do this for you, you're going to cut me a check.
That's not a ton less than that.
Yeah,
I think that in terms of theinformation side, I think most people don't realize that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think that most peoplereally grasp that and look at it that way.
(11:08):
Now, a lot of it does come down sometimesto, you know, well, I don't have the time.
I don't have the energy.
I don't have the effort.
I don't, I don't have the bandwidth.
Okay.
I get that.
Completely understand that.
But in the grand scheme of things,when you start looking at the economics
of what it is that you guys are doingwith a 50K sign on bonus, it is not.
As wild and out there asit looks on the surface.
(11:33):
So let's talk a little bit about that.
Let's talk about kind of how that cameup and where it is sitting today and what kind of, and I know that you're
probably still measuring the resultsof some of that, but kind of what that's been able to do for you guys.
Absolutely.
One thing that's pretty cool about itis we had also touched on that we're recording all of our interactions.
(11:54):
So we have the actual moment.
Where we're on call, you know, justin a few moments of desperation of like, Oh man, what are we doing here?
And where it popped andit was like, Oh, duh.
So we'll have to, we'll haveto go through and get that.
Cause then just the excitementand the enthusiasm that we had
(12:18):
in that moment of the realizationof, Oh, this makes complete sense.
To do this and wait, hold on, wait,why isn't anybody else doing this?
Yeah, exactly.
That, that would be interestingto go back and look at that.
And to let you know what it all stemsfrom is a mindset of it's my fault.
We do this and we say itin a few different ways.
(12:41):
We maintain the, how have I failedyou mentality, extreme ownership.
Hey, it's my fault in there becauseas soon as you start saying, Hey,
it is my fault, it gives you thechance to do something about it.
Absolutely.
If
I'm continuously pointing at a recruiterfor not getting me somebody or pointing over here or pointing at the entire job
(13:01):
market, then I've got to wait for themto change or for them to get better.
Whereas we said, Hey, you know what?
No, it's, it's my fault.
So if it truly is my fault,what do I have to do?
And then how do I fix it?
Yeah.
And to let you know, during 2024,we did do some recruiters to bring
some people in and that we paid over20, 000 to get some folks on that.
(13:27):
Weren't with a firm bythe end of the year.
Yeah.
And
actual dollars expended from those.
And then in addition, we payreally good bonuses, , so we already were spending this money.
Yeah.
So if we would've made, if justfrom a number, since if we would have made this same decision.
(13:47):
A year earlier, we likely wouldhave someone who is probably going
to want to be more, more encouragedto be a part of the journey.
Bottom line, it would be higherand then the actual retention of some folks to come along too.
So it just logically just madesense from that standpoint.
Now, the other side of it is we also getthe claim of the largest signing bonus in public accounting history being offered,
(14:14):
publicly, excuse me, publicly offeredsigning bonus in public accounting.
Let me make sure I get the rightwords in there that we get.
And you know, when you talk about theretention piece of it, I mean, let's just be real for just a minute here.
I know speaking for myself, ifI rewind the clock 20 years ago.
(14:35):
And I'm sitting as an employee, a middlemanager in the recruiting industry, working for a couple of large firms.
There's a lot of change going on.
There's a lot of chaos going on.
There's days that I wasn't happyin the job, but in the midst of that, a commission check comes in.
In the midst of that, aquarterly bonus check comes in.
(14:57):
And I remember specifically saying to someof my counterparts, because I think we all sit around in the midst of the day to
day grind, talking to our buddies about,man, there's got to be a better way.
Man, this sucks.
Man, this doesn't work.
And then that check comes in andyou go, you know, For that kind
of money, I could put up withthat crap for a little bit longer.
(15:19):
I mean, that's just the reality of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And
I think that when you have a carrotthat's that size, some of those things
that we nitpick and complain aboutas human beings, they're not as big.
As we make them out to be.
Now, now obviously there's adifference between just horrible
culture, toxic culture, toxic,that's not what I'm talking about.
(15:43):
I'm just talking about the, youknow, the mindset that we all have at times that, you know, this sucks.
Does it really suck?
Nah, it really doesn't.
I just, I didn't get my way, soI'm not happy about something.
They tend to roll withit a little bit more.
So, when did you guys kindof put that out there?
Three months ago, something like that?
Yeah, so that, that would have been inDecember and we knew that the timing of it was not the best because we had been
(16:13):
going through a lot of traditional routesto say and started to even hear from.
Some of the recruiters that we hadbeen working with that man, December is just not a time where anybody's moving
now being said we had some interestingExperiences through putting that out
as you can probably imagine and thereis a part of Protect the innocent,
(16:39):
with one to put out there,but it's impressive.
Some of the things and interactionsthat we had through that experience.
Well, and I've got to believe also thatthe marketing that comes out of that,
and I say marketing because at the endof the day, recruiting is marketing.
It's getting your brand out there.
(16:59):
It's creating noise.
that people start to talk.
And when you're able to do that, if thesplash is big enough, if the noise is
loud enough, there are people that maynot be looking today, but they're curious.
You're absolutely right.
Nailed it.
(17:20):
Uh, so with this, we'renot looking for a person.
We're looking for the, theperson, someone who comes on.
We, the questions that they were asking,I mean, we, we read books together.
We, we put it together.
We hold each other accountablefor what we're doing.
We hold each other to a differentstandard and truly look to.
(17:42):
CJ CPAs itself is just,it's just a vehicle.
We just happen to be doing accounting,doing some revolutionary things and doing amazing things, but it's just a vehicle
to be the best husbands that we can be,to be the best wives, the best fathers and mothers and members of our community
and just doing amazing things that areout there and really put in a lot of the other excuses behind us and saying.
(18:07):
Ah, you know what?
No, I'm just going to get betterevery day and surround ourselves in a pool of just greatness.
And when you hop into thepool, it's hard to not get wet.
So with it, we're buildinga pipeline as well.
And we tell that explicitly that todaywe have our round one needs where we, we say, Hey, you're Immediate
(18:32):
expertise in exactly what we are doingis important and what we're finding the most perfect fit literally every
day that passes, which yesterday openAI released agents, which has been starting to drop that bar very quickly.
But every day that passes your priorknowledge to our specialization and what our needs becomes less important
(18:57):
and it becomes more important aboutyour mindset, which we do have a high bar for mindset to start with.
But if we meet some folks that don't havethe next, we put them into categories.
They don't have, they're not around one.
Then we say, Hey, this isaround two around three.
And we want to stay in contactwith you for when we're ready.
And so we're looking to use thisas the start of a way to build a pipeline for years to come.
(19:22):
And we have ways for us tostay engaged with these folks.
One of the things to say,Hey, come read with us.
We have a channel where, Hey,this is what we are reading.
This is what we're doing.
Come on, if you want to be on apath with us, even though you're
not with us, come along and let'scheck it out and just learn and grow.
You know, I think so many times, Chris,as, as leaders, we get blinders on and we
(19:47):
get so myopically focused on my problems,my issues, my challenges right now today.
And we don't think about kind of whatyou're talking about, which is this too shall pass, you know, right now, today,
and let's just use for argument's sake,right now, today, at this juncture of who we are as CJCPAs, we absolutely,
(20:08):
positively need to have somebodythat understands this piece of audit.
They can have these other things,and that's great, but we really
need somebody to hit the groundrunning right now that knows this.
You may talk to somebody thatdoesn't have that today, but they have all these other things.
Two years from now.
You may need that person.
And what an amazing opportunity to have aconversation, not a cold call, not a cold conversation, but an engaging conversation
(20:36):
with someone that you've been in communitywith that you can pick the phone up and
call or shoot a text message and say,Hey, you got time for a cup of coffee?
I want to run something by you.
I want to put this on the table and whenyou, I call it connective tissue, when you break bread with people over a period of
time, you begin to create that connectivetissue that is deeper than just, Hey, do you have experience doing 401(k) audits?
(21:02):
You start to understand who they are atthe core and that begins to create those
conversations two years from now of,Hey, we need somebody with these values.
And we think that youcould be that person.
Have you ever thought aboutpotentially being a part of who we are?
That's a much easier and morefun conversation than, hey,
(21:23):
let's walk through your resumebecause I don't know who you are.
You know what is something that itmakes me think of is that I've listened to the Joe Rogan podcast for years
for over over a decade since I was incollege and one of the things that I
heard him say One time was that hey,I have these very long form podcasts.
(21:43):
It's hard to keep up the act for threehours Yes, it's hard for three hours Like maybe you start to see it but as
we, as we get into it it breaks downand then it's like, okay Hey, here's this thing that happens and in the
same way We got to see it through ourexperiences and we evaluated some people I mean, 20 plus hours of evaluation
(22:05):
into some of the folks that we had comealong and then got to see as it went, it went farther along things that would
come out, but in the same way, even ifit's just a touch point and it doesn't happen, we've established that contact.
So then over time, over months, ayear, years where we go through.
It will allow for the trueself to also present itself.
(22:26):
There's also the cases that can happenwhere if somebody's not maybe a 100 percent even on from a cultural fit right
now, but we really like the person andthey're growing just as we're growing.
Then it could, you could move fromwhat we would consider you as in a round three to a two, two maybe a
one, the way, oh yeah, we just needto get this person in right now.
Yep, and I think that, you know, somethingyou said a minute ago is, is really, it does come down to culture, it does come
(22:52):
down to people, it does come down towho's at the heart of this, not just the technical piece of what this person's
title is on a resume, and it's notlimiting or belittling what you do, but this is just what we do, it's not who we
are, and this is going to help us become,The best dad, the best husband, the best wife, the best, you know, kid, the best
parent, whatever it is that we're strivingto be, these things help us do that.
(23:17):
And sometimes that means that,hey, I don't love what I do, but I'm good at what I do.
And because I'm good at what I do, ithelps me be overall better at being the person that I've been created to be.
And when you surround yourself, Ithink, with people that have that same, like, mindset, as you said, you
can't help but get wet when you're inthe pool with people just like that.
(23:39):
So, we chatted a little bit aboutthis before we hit the record button.
So, how many people have youbrought on so far this year, or in the last 30 to 45 days?
So this month we have hired four people.
Now, to be fair, that was goingwith some, uh, offshoring, right?
That was a piece because we werelooking to fill this role had gotten very close, very deep into the process.
(24:05):
I had made some offers and then.
Said we have some immediate needsand said, all right, here we go.
We had been actually holding out on theoffshoring option on it and said, okay,
if we're going to go through, we'regoing to be the best at offshoring.
And we're going to dive deep.
So we made four hires still evaluatingand doing things along those lines.
Making it happen.
(24:26):
When you look at your client base isyour client base predominantly in the San Antonio area or is it geographic agnostic?
So on we have two sides of our business.
We service the construction industry bydoing assurance services audits reviews compilations and then we have 401(k)
audits that we do on the constructionside, primarily focused locally as we're getting a lot of structure there,
(24:50):
building a lot of really good structurethat actually is very close to starting
to look to potentially open that upnationally with the way the technology is.
And our structure inside of that willbe able to allow us to provide the same
level of service and reach our standardsfor client service without the same.
(25:11):
Need for physical proximity for someof those products, the 401(k) side, we are able to do those nationally.
Okay.
So when I look at your firm, whenI look at some of the things that you've talked about on LinkedIn, one
of the things that really kind ofjumps out at me is even just talking
to you today and overall mindset of,Hey, we're going to be transparent.
(25:33):
We're going to lay cards on the table.
You know, a lot of what youwrite about, a lot about what you talk about is authenticity.
And I think that we live in a world stillwhere people are a little bit afraid to put all the cards out there on the table.
Uh, I think to quote one of yourposts from a couple of weeks ago,
honesty can be hard in the shortterm, but easier over the longer term.
(25:55):
Plus, it's better for the soul.
Talk to me about kind of howthat type of mindset is shaped.
Not only the 50k offer, but just howyou've gone about building the business, how you go about leading people and
building a firm where people can betheir best self that they can possibly be and not just, Hey, I'm a good auditor.
(26:17):
Yeah,
there's a, there's a lot, lots to that.
That's a, that's quitethe onion there with it.
I do have a big core value for meis honesty and just being so truly
authentic with this life, with thisexperience, with everything that we get.
And it's just years of being insituations of feeling the pressure too.
(26:42):
Maybe withhold the truth or something andjust can see it where it's like I will be better off if I lie In the situation
and so maybe maybe oh, well, then maybeI won't actually Lie, but I won't say it.
I won't go out there to do that and beingincentivized by lots of things around me.
Mm hmm.
Through the job that I picked or thepeople that I'm hanging out with or
(27:07):
whatever that may be environments thatI put myself in to encourage that.
So, so then getting into a spot where Iget to to really shape the environment of saying like let's let's have a safe place.
I told this to my brother when he was Inmiddle school and I was in high school, I overheard him telling this small
(27:28):
lie to my parents and I went to him,I didn't call him out in front of them to it, but I took him aside and I said,
Hey, as soon as you step outside of thedoors of our house, you have to put a filter up for the lies and the deceit and
everything that you, that the world isgoing to be coming at you with and when
(27:50):
you get to walk in, You with You can bein a place where you don't have that.
You don't have to have that.
And you can be truly honest with yourfamily and everybody that you have here.
And if you're going to do these smalllittle lies like that, then, then we're going to have to put the filter up when
we're talking with you and we don'twant to have that and in that, that
same way, in terms of the same way ofthinking, that's what I want to do.
(28:13):
What we have here.
And to say, when people come in andcome to join us, we have to also manage our expectations at, um, as a
management team, knowing that peopleare not used to that . Exactly.
And then to have a almost anincubator period where we're like, I expect you to lie to me.
(28:34):
Yeah.
, you know, for a little bit as you get, get through this.
And I will continually justbe honest with you, and most people don't even realize it.
You just started asking yourselfa bunch of questions when people
are truly being very authenticand honest in their dealings.
And it's not normal.
No, it's really not normal.
We truly do.
We try.
I actually do.
(28:54):
When people are coming on, I tellthem, it's my expectation that
this will be the hardest thingthat you ever do in your life.
And if it's not, I will see it as that.
I have failed you.
I want us to be better, to grow, to learn.
And the hard part about it, of what wedo out here, it has nothing to do with accounting is that we hold up mirrors.
(29:16):
We hold up mirrors and we truly.
And look back atourselves and that's hard.
That is hard.
And especially if you haven'tgone through any periods in your life where you've done that.
Woo!
Man, that's
tough.
Thanks for joining us for part oneof John Randolph's conversation with Chris Johnson of CJ CPAs.
(29:38):
Part two will air February 12th.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite podcasting app and
check CPALifePodcast.comfor show notes and more.
We'll see you next time on CPA
Life.
ProfessionalProductions.net
Thanks for tuning in to CPA life, wherewe talk culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in an
industry that has been stuck with a we'vealways done it that way mindset for far too long, join host John Randolph and
learn how a sustainable family friendlycareer in public accounting doesn't have to be the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA life.
Hey folks, we are back with a new seasonof the CPA life podcast, and we are Looking forward to bringing you some
more engaging conversations with today'sfirm leaders and industry insiders who
are really passionate about building amore people centric accounting world.
(00:46):
And today we are joined bysomebody who's doing just that.
Chris Johnson is the CEO.
Of CJ CPAs, which is a public accountingfirm based in San Antonio, Texas, that specializes in the assurance services
for the construction industry andperforming employee benefit plan audits.
So Chris, welcome to the show today.
Thank you so much for having me.
(01:07):
I want to say just love what you're doing.
The.
Community, the content that'sput, putting it out there.
I absolutely love that.
And just fantastic that we have theseresources available to people who
want to know a little bit more aboutwhat's going on and the inside look.
And, and there definitelyis a lot going on.
(01:27):
So, so we're going to diginto some of those things.
We're going to, I'll go ahead and I'llfire a shot over the bow of some of
the things that I really am lookingforward to talking to you about.
learning more about the fact that you'vepretty much been recording almost all your interactions in life over the last year or
two and kind of what drove that decisionand what you've learned from that.
We're going to talk a littlebit about a line that I saw.
(01:50):
I don't remember if it was on yourLinkedIn profile on your website, but
it said, we believe that our successis built through valuing our employees.
And treating them with the utmost respect,which that's a great thing to say.
And I think a lot of firms say thatit's one of those wonderful placeholders to put on a website, but it's really
putting it into practice and somethings that you guys are doing are putting those things into practice.
(02:12):
I want to learn more about pick to print.
Looks like a really cool endeavorthat you've got going on.
And then of course, we're going to talkabout the big thing, which is the elephant in the room, the 50 K sign on bonus that
you had out in the public marketplace fora while, which I'm sure that you've had a lot of conversations surrounding that.
So what I want to diginto that a little bit.
So before we get into all of that,one of the things that we like to do is kind of understand your history,
(02:37):
your journey about where you'vebeen to get to where you are today.
So kind of walk us through.
Your journey, your path comingout of college, you had kind of
a traditional career trajectorycoming out of college, correct?
Yes, I did.
Right out of the gate, followed thestandard path, like many accountants
(02:59):
and CPAs of just seeing a wellstructured, safe career path.
And everything was standard,up until it wasn't.
So did an internship towards the endof my College career, uh, with PKD and then went on full time with them.
After that, there was a local firm inSan Antonio called Paget Strautman.
(03:25):
But it was the largest firm in SanAntonio, which for a major city, it's just not common that a local firm with
about 100, 150 people would be thelargest one in a top 10 city in terms of population size in the country.
But had heard that they had figuredout how to do this public accounting
thing without burning people out andsaid, you know what, let's check it out.
(03:47):
So went over and fantastic.
If I was still around, couldsee myself still being there.
Uh, but they were subsequently acquired byour RSM and then, uh, they're, they're a lot, a lot of the similar things, uh, uh,
that happened when trying to manage 10,000 people, uh, that come along with that.
So, uh, while there met my wife,who is also a CPA and after.
(04:10):
Our first child, I was looking to leaveto go traditional route, take a position
with a construction company, controllerto CFO, follow the well beaten path.
And then a friend of mine from BKDreached out and said, Oh, hey, I'm at this well established tax firm.
(04:32):
We don't have an audit practice.
They want to talk to you,the partners of the firm.
And I was 90 percent certainthat I was going to go to another construction company, wellbeing path.
And I went to Perry's andthey got me a pork chop
and I got there and they said,you're our guy, we want you to do it.
(04:54):
And in my head, I'mlike, no, no, no, no, no.
You don't realize I don't, I don'tknow nothing about starting an audit practice, what to do there.
Like y'all don't want that.
And they said, no, no, no, no, no.
We're about finding the right people.
And everything else will fall in line.
We have faith in you that you'll do it.
Wow.
Incredible.
So over this lunch, then one of the thingsthey actually told me, you know, if you have a little bit of entrepreneurial
(05:17):
spirit about you, you can come overhere, start this, the check's going to clear and you can get some of that.
So I thought it was just too crazyof an opportunity not to pass up.
And that's been so much of my careerhas just been the next logical step.
Yep.
It's like, it seems like a lot, maybea lot of risk to some folks, but it
(05:38):
is, if you're right there with the lifeexperiences, it is the next logical step.
So, so came over, started the auditpractice for him, came in day one.
I said, okay, wait, so how doyou build an audit practice?
Like, no, no, no, no, no, literally.
We don't know, but we can figure it out.
So I just started picking up the phoneand I was calling people in the city.
And if I didn't find the answer in thecity, I called people in the state.
(05:58):
If I didn't find the answer in thestate, I called people in the country and then the world and just kept on.
And I did that for twoand a half to three years.
Wow.
Wow.
And probably a great learning experience.
Absolutely.
And massively grateful for thatopportunity, but it was that,
that situation of, I mean, I'mnot going to let these folks down.
(06:20):
So, so we, uh, went, wentin and where it was able to.
Get the practice started and then likepushing a boulder over a hill, when that thing got to the top, it started picking
up and then as we were, we were pickingup speed, the partners actually said,
Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, we don't want to do audit anymore.
We're starting to now realize allthe other things that come along
(06:43):
with the different independenceand all these other items.
Okay, but you know what?
You have built this practice.
Take it.
Wow.
And so then we went and it was ableto break off the practice it had built over the couple of years.
It was able to dive in and startedCJCPAs, which is an assurance only.
(07:05):
We don't do any tax, we can hardly spellit, but we lean, we lean into amazing relationships, uh, with, with other folks
to do that so that we can just stay inour lane and truly be on this route to be the best in the world at what we do.
Isn't it amazing sometimes how youlook back on past and how those opportunities come about and you
(07:26):
realize had, like you said, had thisnot stacked on this and this not stacked on that, I would probably go out on a
limb and say coming out of, you know,where you were in your career at RSM.
I gotta believe, again, stereotypicalmindset of an accountant and behaviors of an accountant.
Would you have one day at this agestepped out on your own, started your own firm, phone caution of the wind?
(07:51):
Let's see what happens here.
But Leaving under anumbrella, building it.
Those guys saying, Hey,this isn't us anymore.
Take it and run with it.
Now they're outside looking in.
I can see how other folks might look atsome of the things that we do saying, Oh my goodness, there's so much risk here.
(08:11):
I'm like, I am a risk averse accountant.
I am that, but the way that, that Igo through and get comfort with what is perceived to be risk information
and understanding and the gapbetween what I knew at the time of leaving RSM to starting a firm.
(08:33):
Too big to do that, but then just slowlyday by day getting comfort with it.
But even when it was presented to me, Isaid, Oh man, that's, that's terrifying.
And I stayed up till two in the morning,many, many nights reading the Texas
state public board of accountancyact to say, what is all the things?
(08:55):
What am I not?
No, I, I reached out to alawyer who has worked with many accounting firms in San Antonio.
And I said, can I just get a couple hoursof your time just to pick your brain?
And every step that I took in thatjust gave me more confidence and
realized that the perceived riskthat I had was just ignorance.
Yep, I think that's a great saying thatI think more of us need to embrace and understand is that it's, it's a perceived
(09:21):
risk and the reality is it's justignorance and it can be overcome with
information, research, data, and beingable to bridge that gap just a little bit.
I love it.
And yeah, along those lines, one thingthat I always say is the guy with all
the money under his mattress thinks thathe's the least risky person out there.
(09:41):
He's like, what are y'all talking about?
Put your money in the bank.
I got my money under the mattress.
But with a little bit more information,you realize that is the riskiest thing
you can do because inflation is eatingaway at that, turning that to zero.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's getting the data to supportthe decisions that you're making.
And it's very apparent, you know, lookingat what you guys have done, looking at what you're doing, looking at the way
(10:04):
that you're approaching, you know, a lotof the things that you guys are doing at CJCPAs, there's a lot of data driven.
Decisions being made.
It's not just flying by the seatof your pants and, you know, throwing caution to the wind.
Hey, let's try this, which brings usto really, you know, kind of the big thing that connected you and I on, you
(10:25):
know, was the flashing light that gotmy attention was 50 K sign on bonus.
And honestly, and we haven't talkedabout this, but one of the reasons why that caught my attention is because
one of the conversations, a lot oftimes that I'll have with our potential clients on the recruiting side of our
business is have you thought outside ofthe box and done some of these things
(10:46):
that you may look at on the surface andgo, man, that just doesn't make sense.
But the flip side of this is ifyou hire me to do this for you, you're going to cut me a check.
That's not a ton less than that.
Yeah,
I think that in terms of theinformation side, I think most people don't realize that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think that most peoplereally grasp that and look at it that way.
(11:08):
Now, a lot of it does come down sometimesto, you know, well, I don't have the time.
I don't have the energy.
I don't have the effort.
I don't, I don't have the bandwidth.
Okay.
I get that.
Completely understand that.
But in the grand scheme of things,when you start looking at the economics
of what it is that you guys are doingwith a 50K sign on bonus, it is not.
As wild and out there asit looks on the surface.
(11:33):
So let's talk a little bit about that.
Let's talk about kind of how that cameup and where it is sitting today and what kind of, and I know that you're
probably still measuring the resultsof some of that, but kind of what that's been able to do for you guys.
Absolutely.
One thing that's pretty cool about itis we had also touched on that we're recording all of our interactions.
(11:54):
So we have the actual moment.
Where we're on call, you know, justin a few moments of desperation of like, Oh man, what are we doing here?
And where it popped andit was like, Oh, duh.
So we'll have to, we'll haveto go through and get that.
Cause then just the excitementand the enthusiasm that we had
(12:18):
in that moment of the realizationof, Oh, this makes complete sense.
To do this and wait, hold on, wait,why isn't anybody else doing this?
Yeah, exactly.
That, that would be interestingto go back and look at that.
And to let you know what it all stemsfrom is a mindset of it's my fault.
We do this and we say itin a few different ways.
(12:41):
We maintain the, how have I failedyou mentality, extreme ownership.
Hey, it's my fault in there becauseas soon as you start saying, Hey,
it is my fault, it gives you thechance to do something about it.
Absolutely.
If
I'm continuously pointing at a recruiterfor not getting me somebody or pointing over here or pointing at the entire job
(13:01):
market, then I've got to wait for themto change or for them to get better.
Whereas we said, Hey, you know what?
No, it's, it's my fault.
So if it truly is my fault,what do I have to do?
And then how do I fix it?
Yeah.
And to let you know, during 2024,we did do some recruiters to bring
some people in and that we paid over20, 000 to get some folks on that.
(13:27):
Weren't with a firm bythe end of the year.
Yeah.
And
actual dollars expended from those.
And then in addition, we payreally good bonuses, , so we already were spending this money.
Yeah.
So if we would've made, if justfrom a number, since if we would have made this same decision.
(13:47):
A year earlier, we likely wouldhave someone who is probably going
to want to be more, more encouragedto be a part of the journey.
Bottom line, it would be higherand then the actual retention of some folks to come along too.
So it just logically just madesense from that standpoint.
Now, the other side of it is we also getthe claim of the largest signing bonus in public accounting history being offered,
(14:14):
publicly, excuse me, publicly offeredsigning bonus in public accounting.
Let me make sure I get the rightwords in there that we get.
And you know, when you talk about theretention piece of it, I mean, let's just be real for just a minute here.
I know speaking for myself, ifI rewind the clock 20 years ago.
(14:35):
And I'm sitting as an employee, a middlemanager in the recruiting industry, working for a couple of large firms.
There's a lot of change going on.
There's a lot of chaos going on.
There's days that I wasn't happyin the job, but in the midst of that, a commission check comes in.
In the midst of that, aquarterly bonus check comes in.
(14:57):
And I remember specifically saying to someof my counterparts, because I think we all sit around in the midst of the day to
day grind, talking to our buddies about,man, there's got to be a better way.
Man, this sucks.
Man, this doesn't work.
And then that check comes in andyou go, you know, For that kind
of money, I could put up withthat crap for a little bit longer.
(15:19):
I mean, that's just the reality of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And
I think that when you have a carrotthat's that size, some of those things
that we nitpick and complain aboutas human beings, they're not as big.
As we make them out to be.
Now, now obviously there's adifference between just horrible
culture, toxic culture, toxic,that's not what I'm talking about.
(15:43):
I'm just talking about the, youknow, the mindset that we all have at times that, you know, this sucks.
Does it really suck?
Nah, it really doesn't.
I just, I didn't get my way, soI'm not happy about something.
They tend to roll withit a little bit more.
So, when did you guys kindof put that out there?
Three months ago, something like that?
Yeah, so that, that would have been inDecember and we knew that the timing of it was not the best because we had been
(16:13):
going through a lot of traditional routesto say and started to even hear from.
Some of the recruiters that we hadbeen working with that man, December is just not a time where anybody's moving
now being said we had some interestingExperiences through putting that out
as you can probably imagine and thereis a part of Protect the innocent,
(16:39):
with one to put out there,but it's impressive.
Some of the things and interactionsthat we had through that experience.
Well, and I've got to believe also thatthe marketing that comes out of that,
and I say marketing because at the endof the day, recruiting is marketing.
It's getting your brand out there.
(16:59):
It's creating noise.
that people start to talk.
And when you're able to do that, if thesplash is big enough, if the noise is
loud enough, there are people that maynot be looking today, but they're curious.
You're absolutely right.
Nailed it.
(17:20):
Uh, so with this, we'renot looking for a person.
We're looking for the, theperson, someone who comes on.
We, the questions that they were asking,I mean, we, we read books together.
We, we put it together.
We hold each other accountablefor what we're doing.
We hold each other to a differentstandard and truly look to.
(17:42):
CJ CPAs itself is just,it's just a vehicle.
We just happen to be doing accounting,doing some revolutionary things and doing amazing things, but it's just a vehicle
to be the best husbands that we can be,to be the best wives, the best fathers and mothers and members of our community
and just doing amazing things that areout there and really put in a lot of the other excuses behind us and saying.
(18:07):
Ah, you know what?
No, I'm just going to get betterevery day and surround ourselves in a pool of just greatness.
And when you hop into thepool, it's hard to not get wet.
So with it, we're buildinga pipeline as well.
And we tell that explicitly that todaywe have our round one needs where we, we say, Hey, you're Immediate
(18:32):
expertise in exactly what we are doingis important and what we're finding the most perfect fit literally every
day that passes, which yesterday openAI released agents, which has been starting to drop that bar very quickly.
But every day that passes your priorknowledge to our specialization and what our needs becomes less important
(18:57):
and it becomes more important aboutyour mindset, which we do have a high bar for mindset to start with.
But if we meet some folks that don't havethe next, we put them into categories.
They don't have, they're not around one.
Then we say, Hey, this isaround two around three.
And we want to stay in contactwith you for when we're ready.
And so we're looking to use thisas the start of a way to build a pipeline for years to come.
(19:22):
And we have ways for us tostay engaged with these folks.
One of the things to say,Hey, come read with us.
We have a channel where, Hey,this is what we are reading.
This is what we're doing.
Come on, if you want to be on apath with us, even though you're
not with us, come along and let'scheck it out and just learn and grow.
You know, I think so many times, Chris,as, as leaders, we get blinders on and we
(19:47):
get so myopically focused on my problems,my issues, my challenges right now today.
And we don't think about kind of whatyou're talking about, which is this too shall pass, you know, right now, today,
and let's just use for argument's sake,right now, today, at this juncture of who we are as CJCPAs, we absolutely,
(20:08):
positively need to have somebodythat understands this piece of audit.
They can have these other things,and that's great, but we really
need somebody to hit the groundrunning right now that knows this.
You may talk to somebody thatdoesn't have that today, but they have all these other things.
Two years from now.
You may need that person.
And what an amazing opportunity to have aconversation, not a cold call, not a cold conversation, but an engaging conversation
(20:36):
with someone that you've been in communitywith that you can pick the phone up and
call or shoot a text message and say,Hey, you got time for a cup of coffee?
I want to run something by you.
I want to put this on the table and whenyou, I call it connective tissue, when you break bread with people over a period of
time, you begin to create that connectivetissue that is deeper than just, Hey, do you have experience doing 401(k) audits?
(21:02):
You start to understand who they are atthe core and that begins to create those
conversations two years from now of,Hey, we need somebody with these values.
And we think that youcould be that person.
Have you ever thought aboutpotentially being a part of who we are?
That's a much easier and morefun conversation than, hey,
(21:23):
let's walk through your resumebecause I don't know who you are.
You know what is something that itmakes me think of is that I've listened to the Joe Rogan podcast for years
for over over a decade since I was incollege and one of the things that I
heard him say One time was that hey,I have these very long form podcasts.
(21:43):
It's hard to keep up the act for threehours Yes, it's hard for three hours Like maybe you start to see it but as
we, as we get into it it breaks downand then it's like, okay Hey, here's this thing that happens and in the
same way We got to see it through ourexperiences and we evaluated some people I mean, 20 plus hours of evaluation
(22:05):
into some of the folks that we had comealong and then got to see as it went, it went farther along things that would
come out, but in the same way, even ifit's just a touch point and it doesn't happen, we've established that contact.
So then over time, over months, ayear, years where we go through.
It will allow for the trueself to also present itself.
(22:26):
There's also the cases that can happenwhere if somebody's not maybe a 100 percent even on from a cultural fit right
now, but we really like the person andthey're growing just as we're growing.
Then it could, you could move fromwhat we would consider you as in a round three to a two, two maybe a
one, the way, oh yeah, we just needto get this person in right now.
Yep, and I think that, you know, somethingyou said a minute ago is, is really, it does come down to culture, it does come
(22:52):
down to people, it does come down towho's at the heart of this, not just the technical piece of what this person's
title is on a resume, and it's notlimiting or belittling what you do, but this is just what we do, it's not who we
are, and this is going to help us become,The best dad, the best husband, the best wife, the best, you know, kid, the best
parent, whatever it is that we're strivingto be, these things help us do that.
(23:17):
And sometimes that means that,hey, I don't love what I do, but I'm good at what I do.
And because I'm good at what I do, ithelps me be overall better at being the person that I've been created to be.
And when you surround yourself, Ithink, with people that have that same, like, mindset, as you said, you
can't help but get wet when you're inthe pool with people just like that.
(23:39):
So, we chatted a little bit aboutthis before we hit the record button.
So, how many people have youbrought on so far this year, or in the last 30 to 45 days?
So this month we have hired four people.
Now, to be fair, that was goingwith some, uh, offshoring, right?
That was a piece because we werelooking to fill this role had gotten very close, very deep into the process.
(24:05):
I had made some offers and then.
Said we have some immediate needsand said, all right, here we go.
We had been actually holding out on theoffshoring option on it and said, okay,
if we're going to go through, we'regoing to be the best at offshoring.
And we're going to dive deep.
So we made four hires still evaluatingand doing things along those lines.
Making it happen.
(24:26):
When you look at your client base isyour client base predominantly in the San Antonio area or is it geographic agnostic?
So on we have two sides of our business.
We service the construction industry bydoing assurance services audits reviews compilations and then we have 401(k)
audits that we do on the constructionside, primarily focused locally as we're getting a lot of structure there,
(24:50):
building a lot of really good structurethat actually is very close to starting
to look to potentially open that upnationally with the way the technology is.
And our structure inside of that willbe able to allow us to provide the same
level of service and reach our standardsfor client service without the same.
(25:11):
Need for physical proximity for someof those products, the 401(k) side, we are able to do those nationally.
Okay.
So when I look at your firm, whenI look at some of the things that you've talked about on LinkedIn, one
of the things that really kind ofjumps out at me is even just talking
to you today and overall mindset of,Hey, we're going to be transparent.
(25:33):
We're going to lay cards on the table.
You know, a lot of what youwrite about, a lot about what you talk about is authenticity.
And I think that we live in a world stillwhere people are a little bit afraid to put all the cards out there on the table.
Uh, I think to quote one of yourposts from a couple of weeks ago,
honesty can be hard in the shortterm, but easier over the longer term.
(25:55):
Plus, it's better for the soul.
Talk to me about kind of howthat type of mindset is shaped.
Not only the 50k offer, but just howyou've gone about building the business, how you go about leading people and
building a firm where people can betheir best self that they can possibly be and not just, Hey, I'm a good auditor.
(26:17):
Yeah,
there's a, there's a lot, lots to that.
That's a, that's quitethe onion there with it.
I do have a big core value for meis honesty and just being so truly
authentic with this life, with thisexperience, with everything that we get.
And it's just years of being insituations of feeling the pressure too.
(26:42):
Maybe withhold the truth or something andjust can see it where it's like I will be better off if I lie In the situation
and so maybe maybe oh, well, then maybeI won't actually Lie, but I won't say it.
I won't go out there to do that and beingincentivized by lots of things around me.
Mm hmm.
Through the job that I picked or thepeople that I'm hanging out with or
(27:07):
whatever that may be environments thatI put myself in to encourage that.
So, so then getting into a spot where Iget to to really shape the environment of saying like let's let's have a safe place.
I told this to my brother when he was Inmiddle school and I was in high school, I overheard him telling this small
(27:28):
lie to my parents and I went to him,I didn't call him out in front of them to it, but I took him aside and I said,
Hey, as soon as you step outside of thedoors of our house, you have to put a filter up for the lies and the deceit and
everything that you, that the world isgoing to be coming at you with and when
(27:50):
you get to walk in, You with You can bein a place where you don't have that.
You don't have to have that.
And you can be truly honest with yourfamily and everybody that you have here.
And if you're going to do these smalllittle lies like that, then, then we're going to have to put the filter up when
we're talking with you and we don'twant to have that and in that, that
same way, in terms of the same way ofthinking, that's what I want to do.
(28:13):
What we have here.
And to say, when people come in andcome to join us, we have to also manage our expectations at, um, as a
management team, knowing that peopleare not used to that . Exactly.
And then to have a almost anincubator period where we're like, I expect you to lie to me.
(28:34):
Yeah.
, you know, for a little bit as you get, get through this.
And I will continually justbe honest with you, and most people don't even realize it.
You just started asking yourselfa bunch of questions when people
are truly being very authenticand honest in their dealings.
And it's not normal.
No, it's really not normal.
We truly do.
We try.
I actually do.
(28:54):
When people are coming on, I tellthem, it's my expectation that
this will be the hardest thingthat you ever do in your life.
And if it's not, I will see it as that.
I have failed you.
I want us to be better, to grow, to learn.
And the hard part about it, of what wedo out here, it has nothing to do with accounting is that we hold up mirrors.
(29:16):
We hold up mirrors and we truly.
And look back atourselves and that's hard.
That is hard.
And especially if you haven'tgone through any periods in your life where you've done that.
Woo!
Man, that's
tough.
Thanks for joining us for part oneof John Randolph's conversation with Chris Johnson of CJ CPAs.
(29:38):
Part two will air February 12th.
Be sure to subscribe on yourfavorite podcasting app and
check CPALifePodcast.comfor show notes and more.
We'll see you next time on CPA
Life.
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