April 16, 2025 • 28 mins
Join John Randolph for part 1 of his special two part interview with Rob Brown, the founder of Accounting Influencers, on Episode 66 of CPA Life. The concept of “story” figures heavily into their conversation about talent in the profession, highlighting the value of both personal and employer branding to drive better outcomes. Rob looks at the role of thought leadership as pivotal insofar as changing the paradigmatic, Big Four-oriented story that permeates the general perception of accounting, and they agree that there is a shared responsibility between individual accountants and firms that are making a difference in the space, to rebuild some of the lost trust and prestige accounting has lost in recent years.
Get the full show notes and more resources at CPALifePodcast.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life wherewe taught culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in
an industry that has been stuck witha, we've always done it that way.
Mindset.
For far too long, join host John Randolph.
And learn how a sustainablefamily friendly career in public
accounting doesn't have tobe the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
Hey everyone.
Thank you for joining us today for anotherepisode of the CPA Life Podcast where
we spend time digging into what it takesto build a modern minded people-centric.
Firm in today's highly competitivetalent landscape of public accounting, and today we are continuing with our
(00:47):
series that we've been in the middleof for the last few weeks while we're spending some time talking to
a number of talent leaders and talentadvocates who spend their time focused.
On the challenges and the needs thatCPA firm leaders are facing in today's market, and today we are joined by Rob
Brown, who brings a unique perspectiveto the table as a CEO of the accounting influencers, which is a professional,
(01:12):
trusted members only organization forindividuals and companies that are operating in the accounting vertical.
On top of that, Rob is also thehost of the accounting flus.
And the Accounting Talent podcast.
He's a conference chair to multipleaccounting focused organizations, a professional interviewer, a
panel moderator, employee brand,and employer brand advocate within the accounting industry.
(01:35):
So we're gonna talk abouta lot of those things.
But in the meantime,Rob, welcome to the show.
Thank you, John.
I'm exhausted just hearing all of that.
I didn't realize I did so much.
I must lay a few things down.
Yeah, it, it absolutely is a mouthful,but when you start looking at all the
things you do, sometimes we take a stepback and go, do I really do all that?
No wonder I'm gassedat the end of the day.
(01:57):
Well, we all wear so many hats, don't we?
And on top of that, father andhusband and everything else, we do
a lot of things to a slightly betterthan average standard, don't we?
We absolutely try to, and I think thatyou do an excellent job with that, with the content that you put out with
the work and the advocacy that youput forth in the accounting space.
And I wanna spend some timetalking about those things today.
(02:18):
But before we dig into a lot ofthose challenges, I. Issues and some of the possible solutions.
I don't know if they'll be the rightsolutions, but we can offer some
to, to those things that, that theaccounting industry is facing today.
Let's take a little bit of strollthrough your background and give
me a snapshot of how you broughtyour career to where you are
(02:40):
today.
Former high school math teacher.
I did four years in the uk, four yearsin Hong Kong and in international school,
but got to that point where I felt Iwas just coaching kids to pass tests.
Yeah.
Started to plan a root out of teachingand took a master's in human resources
and thought training developmentwill be a good fit for my skillset.
(03:01):
Ended up.
Doing some training as an associatefor a guy that worked with accountants.
He was an accountant at Baker Tillyhere in the uk and he taught accountants
how to network and win referralsand get that kind of business.
So I learned from him and endedup doing it in my own way.
And for 20 years ran something calledthe Business Development Academy.
(03:22):
Mm-hmm.
Working with bankers, accountants,lawyers, but mostly accountants.
In 2016, I had a stroke,which was very unexpected.
Oh wow.
And a brain hemorrhage and justforced me to simplify my life.
When you have moments likethat fork in the road.
And I had a very big accountingfirm in the UK that were very loyal to me throughout my rehab.
(03:43):
And at that point I laid downeverything apart from accountants, and I started a podcast called Accounting
Influencers because I wanted tobe more well known in the space.
I was a little well known,but not very well known.
And so I started scouring theuniverse for people that influenced accountants, people that accountants
listened to, and interviewed them andfound out what they were all about.
(04:05):
I enjoyed that so much being thatinterviewer, that podcaster that I stopped doing the business development and the
training stuff and started to run a group,as you said in the intro for influencers.
You've also mentionedthe advocacy for CPAs.
I am a part qualified accountant.
I took a degree in accountingafter I finished high school.
Mm. Because I thought I wanted tobe an accountant, but I, I killed that dream and became a teacher.
(04:30):
So I get accountants and I think they'redoing an amazing job and there's not enough people advocating for them.
I know you in CPA life, you shinea light on some of the great people running firms and how they're.
Doing things differently and, and tryingto blaze a trail and be a pioneer.
So yeah, let's definitely talk about that.
Accountants are the guardians ofbusiness, the gatekeepers of data.
(04:51):
Yep.
And they occupy such a critical role.
But sadly, the accounting profe, you callit an industry, we call it a profession
because we put it on a power with thelegal profession, the medical profession.
And actually calling it an industry mightbe part of the problem, John, because it puts you down at in blue collar territory.
That's a great point.
It it's not the esteemedprofession it should be.
(05:12):
So we call it an industry and it's.
I don't like it.
The tech industry, the accountingindustry for me describes all
the tech companies and everythingsurrounding the accounting profession.
But one of the things we could all dois tell a better story about accounting.
And in CPA Life, I love what you're doingin, in shining a light on what's good.
In the profession andthe great people in it.
(05:35):
You know, there's so many people thatare doing so many things well, and
I think that you're right, Rob, weminimize so much of the work that's done.
But when you think about the fact that,you know, in, in the space that we're
in today with the accounting profession,and I like the way that you put that.
When you think of where we are in theaccounting profession today, if we continue down the path that we're heading
down, where we have fewer people doingthe work, less talent available to do the work, that is gonna begin to drastically
(06:03):
impact the trust that the public hasin overall business, in investment in banking, in managing their money.
All of those things begin to come intoa bigger question if we don't have
the right people in the professiondoing the work that needs to be done.
And you're right, it's astory we've gotta tell.
(06:23):
Well, there's a couple ofthings you brought out there.
You mentioned the word trust.
It is at a premium these days.
Trust in the government, trustin the armed forces, trust in
the judicial system, trust in theeducation system, trust in politics.
It's at an all time low right now.
Mm-hmm.
Trust in relationships.
Divorce isn't an all time high.
Trust in social media.
We don't believe stuff.
There's so much hype out there, so.
(06:44):
Is accounting a profession we can trust?
It doesn't do itself any favorswith some of the audit scandals and the errors that occur in the news.
So that's one thing.
But to the point of, let me ask you this.
Whose responsibility is it, do you think?
I. To be the voice of the professionare who's responsible for the brand of accounting as a career choice.
(07:05):
John,
you know, it's interesting.
That's a very interesting question becauseI think that there's so many people that
would say as a profession, especiallyspeaking to the younger audience, it's.
The professors, it's the collegesthat are helping build that story and tell that story.
But at the end of the day,can you trust that story?
(07:26):
Because you know, in the worldthat we're living in here in the States, I know that you're overseas
in the uk, but in the States we'vegot, you know, all the wonderful.
Stuff, regardless of how you feelabout it, support or not support it going on with Elon Musk and Doge.
And you know, the simplephilosophy of follow the money.
If you follow the money in the accountingprograms in today's marketplace,
that money is coming from large,big four firms, large corporations.
(07:49):
And so there's always gonna be a bent.
To point kids towards that path.
And once they get on that path,that is a path that is designed to
grind and churn and not put peoplein a place to tell a great story.
There's a lot of challenge between howdo we tell a better story and how do we
(08:10):
protect those that have a desire to tella better story coming outta college.
So let's have a look atwhat you've said there.
You've.
I tried to lay some of the responsibilityat the feet of the academics.
You're right, they do have a roleto play, but by the time budding accountants get to the professors,
they've already chosen accountingas a career because they're probably majoring in accounting, so, mm-hmm.
(08:32):
But there is that.
There's the big four.
They have a big responsibilitybecause you're right, they shape what most people think of accountants.
Yep.
And that is the nirvana for manypeople coming into accounting.
I've gotta be in a top four firm anda big four firms play on that because they will try and cream off the very
best coming out of universities andput them through the grind, as you
(08:54):
say, and chain them to a desk for10, 15 years and make them big money.
But they will exhort apound of flesh about that.
Mm-hmm.
We could throw in the statesocieties, the professional.
Bodies, the governing bodiesof accounting, and say they've got a role to play.
We could lay the brand of theprofession at the foot of every
accountant, CPA out there to say,we've all got a role to play.
(09:15):
The problem is if you lay itat the feet of one stakeholder,
they've just got one point ofview, one perspective, absolutely.
On this, if you lay at the of everybody.
Then nobody does anything because everyonethinks everyone else is gonna do it.
It's like climate change.
If you say it's everyone's job for theenvironment, then I, I won't recycle 'cause everyone else is gonna do it.
(09:39):
Mm-hmm.
So it's a tricky one.
But we do know the brand ofaccounting is strong in that it, it's got a lot to offer.
But you're right.
We don't tell a good enough story,and I like what you are doing in that.
You're digging it up.
I said shining a light on it.
You are trying to focus on what'sgood in accounting and the great
things that are going on, but wecould all tell a better story.
(10:02):
Yeah.
I think if, if we all look at itas, as it's my responsibility, as you were saying that.
I thought about a situation Rob years ago.
I played baseball growing upthrough college a couple years
outta college and ended up okaycoaching my girls, playing softball.
Wow.
And with my youngest daughter coachingher team, we went through a period
of time where every time somethingwould happen in a game that wasn't.
(10:23):
You know what was supposed tohappen, the mindset with the kids.
When we'd sit back and kind of do a rehashthe next day in practice about the game,
a lot of times the mindset was, well, youknow, I thought Sally was gonna get it.
I thought
somebody else was gonna do this.
I, well, the reason why I didn'trun as hard is because I thought
that Sarah was gonna get that,and so I just had this idea.
(10:46):
Two days later it was raining outside.
We had practice in the gym at a localschool that, that we had some ties to, and I had a box I. I took this
box and I put it in the shape andkind of carved it up a little bit.
I like to do a little handy work,put it in the shape of a casket, and we put the casket on a table
and I had all the girls come in andsaid, Hey, before we have practice today, we're gonna have a funeral.
(11:10):
Whoa.
We've had a teammate pass away.
Oh,
our teammate's name is somebody else.
Very good.
Somebody else is nolonger a part of our team.
Yeah.
So somebody else is no longergonna be able to get that ball.
Yeah.
Somebody else is no longergonna be able to get that hit.
It's gonna be your responsibility.
(11:32):
I see what you did there.
That's really good.
And I think that in the accountingworld, we gotta get to a point that we
recognize and understand that somebodyelse is no longer a part of the team.
Mm. It's me.
It's you.
It's everybody else and we'vegot to tell a better story.
Let's turn this into a TrueCrime podcast for the moment.
And there's a, I dunno if you knowthis, but I think it's in Robert Cialdini's book on Influence.
(11:56):
He talked about an experiment.
It, not an experiment, it'ssomething that happened in New York.
There was a tenement square and a murder.
Somebody got mugged and murdered in themiddle of this and you can picture all the apartments on in a quadrant type thing.
All four sites all looking on.
And 117 people saw thiswoman getting stabbed.
And she got stabbed multiple times, died.
(12:17):
Nobody called the police, nobody.
And when they interviewed all thewitnesses afterwards about what happened, why didn't you call the police?
Well, everyone was looking at it.
I thought everyone else would do it.
I thought the policehad already been called.
I thought it was done.
Somebody else.
Yep.
And nobody ended up calling the police.
Mm-hmm.
Police arrived hours laterjust as a, an incidental call.
(12:40):
By the way, we've got a deadwoman lying in our buildings here.
So, yeah.
Crazy story.
A little bit gruesome, but goesto your point of we've all got we responsibility, we can all do something.
Yep.
We can't assume that somebody elseis gonna do it, and if we all pick up and lift a little bit of that weight.
It tends to be a lot lighter whenmany hands are put to the work.
(13:05):
Which kinda leads me to a question thatI wanted to ask you, and we talked a little bit about this when we were kind
of catching up before the phone call, butthere is a piece of a business that you
are starting to roll out to some of youraudience and some of your clients where.
You are helping tell a better story.
You're helping people tell a better story.
(13:25):
Tell me a little bit about that andkind of what the vision is with that and
what the end result that you're hopingto be able to deliver with people.
You just asked me about threequestions there, which is what a good podcast interview should do.
So I am as an interviewermyself, like you used to curating stories from very smart people.
(13:47):
Look at the average accountant,technically super smart, very well
qualified, excellent at what they do,passionate, really caring, however.
They don't brand themselves well,they don't create thought leadership.
They don't have muchof a personal profile.
Some do, and you'llknow a few John mm-hmm.
That are out there a little bit moreas an ambassador of their brand, as a advocate of their own firm.
(14:10):
But they don't tell stories.
Well, they've probably got amarketing department if they're
a big firm saying, I wish you'dwrite some more thought leadership.
You've got the domain expertise.
You've got the experience.
You know about the ins and outs oftax law and audit and everything else.
You are working with a particular niche.
But these accountants don't do it.
They're not bred to do it.
They don't want to putthought leadership out there.
They don't have the time.
(14:30):
They don't know how to write an article.
They're not comfortable going on avideo, turning on a webcam or whatever it is, and creating some content.
But they need to do itfor a number of reasons.
First, it's great to attractnew business for the firm, and that never does any harm, right?
Second, it's great to buildemployer brand of a firm saying, Hey, these are our people.
(14:51):
This firm is a great place to work.
This is the kind ofthing that we are doing.
This is what we talk about.
This is why we should be an employerof choice for you talent out there.
Another reason to do it is relevance.
You can easily becomeredundant in this world.
With technology overtaking all ofus with business changing so fast.
(15:12):
If accountants want to be thattrusted advisor, they need to be seen to be talking the language
of business and putting contentout there that says commentary.
On what's happening, thepolitical situation, accountants
would've a lot to say about howbusiness is changing so fast.
Mm-hmm.
And what Trump andeveryone else are doing.
So, and just for personal brandand career capital, it's great for accountants and leaders to be seen as
(15:40):
putting things out to the, to say, I'mimportant, I've got something to say.
I've got a crusade.
I wanna be a force for good.
I wanna right some wrongs.
I wanna bust some myths.
I want to own a narrative.
I've got important stuff to say aboutmy world and, and the business world.
So with all the objections that anaccounting leader might come up with, or a firm owner to not produce content, I'm
(16:03):
saying to them, let me as an interviewer,as an industry, or a profession expert that knows the right question.
Let me interview youfor 30 minutes a month.
Uh, give me 12 months and everymonth I'll interview somebody in your firm that has something to say.
Mm-hmm.
Even if it's as simple as, John,what's been on your mind this month?
What's caught your eye this month?
(16:24):
What have you beenthinking about this month?
What kind of conversations have youbeen having with clients this month?
What problems have you solved this month?
What are you doing next month?
That's exciting?
What eventually you go intoin the next few months and these, all of these questions.
The bring out great stories.
How have you wowed and delighteda client in the last few weeks?
How have you.
(16:46):
For a client of yours.
So when I interview accountants like that,they never show up something to say, and because we position it as a fireside chat
and a conversation, it's authentic, it'spersonal, it doesn't take much prompting.
But out of that 30 minute interview,me and my team will create some thought leadership pieces, some
LinkedIn pieces, some videosnippets that can be branded up.
(17:11):
With you, your personal brand, your firm'slogo, anything else, and it's almost a done for you package to say to that
person, to that firm, Hey, take this andput it out there on the social channels.
And John, I know you work with people thatthat do this for you because you put out some great thought leadership stuff and
it takes that bit of structure and processand somebody actually sitting you down and saying, right, John, what's on your mind?
(17:34):
Yep.
So my proposition is taking a lot ofthe pain out there and making it easy for them and making it quick for them.
'cause they don't have the technicalexpertise to do the videos.
They don't know what to talk about.
So we're making it super easy toaccess and make something happen.
Well, I think it was DaleCarnegie in his book, how To Win Friends and Influence People.
(17:57):
One of the things that DaleCarnegie talked about is everybody loves to talk about themselves.
And their jobs.
Ask people about their family, ask peopleabout their personal interests, ask per people about the things they enjoy doing
outside of work, but more than that, alsoask them about what they do at work and what they're passionate about at work.
Yeah.
People love to talk about those things.
That's their identity, isn't it?
(18:17):
Absolutely.
It is.
Yeah.
And I think that, like you said,when you structure it as a fireside chat, when you structure it as just.
Having a conversation.
There's so much that flows that when youstart to be able to take that knowledge that somebody has and put it into a
video type format, and you and I havetalked about this over the last couple
of years that we've engaged video,for lack of a better way to put it.
(18:38):
Video engages, video sell.
Yeah.
It's the currency of attention, John.
Mm-hmm.
Particularly for the younger generations,and by younger I mean under 40.
Maybe under 50.
We're all on TikTok and YouTubeand everything else, so don't
tell me video doesn't work ingetting people's attention,
and it's something thatpeople will pay for.
(19:00):
It's something that will drivepeople to you as an individual, you as a service provider.
And then again, goes back tothe initial thing that we were talking about, you having a voice.
To be able to tell a better storyin this space and in this industry.
'cause there's, there's some reallypretty cool stories that I know that when you've sat and you've talked
(19:21):
to industry insiders, industryexperts, there's some really cool stories that come out of successes.
They've had clients, they've been ableto solve problems for wins that their firm has been able to have, things
they've done to expand their organizationwhen it comes to people and talent.
So there's so many thingsthat you can pull out of that.
(19:43):
You know, one of the challenges that weface a lot of times when, whenever we start talking to clients on the recruiting
side of our business about candidates, alot of times clients will come back to us
and say, Hey, do you know anything aboutthis guy from a social media standpoint?
I couldn't find anythingabout him on LinkedIn.
He hasn't posted anything in fourand a half years, five years.
In fact, his Lincoln profile isn'teven up to date with his career.
Boy, what an impact that would have.
(20:05):
To be able to have some consistentdata that speaks to the value you bring to a potential organization.
Right.
And you mentioned LinkedIn there.
There are two shop windows foraccountants, two places where they
can be checked out, where peoplecan go and do due diligence.
If I come across a good accountant,I'll get a reference to Affirm.
(20:26):
My first stop might be the website.
Specifically the about Us page.
Mm-hmm.
Who am I dealing with here?
What do I know about this person?
And so many bios onwebsites say, this is Jim.
He works in our tax department.
He is been with us four years andhe does CrossFit on the weekend, and he graduated at this university.
(20:46):
And his expertise areas ofthis, which is fine, but I don't know that guy as a person.
It's nothing different to a billion otherprofiles of accountants on websites.
Mm-hmm.
There's nothing individualand differentiated about it.
What I'd love to see on there is avideo of Jim saying, hi everybody.
I'm Jim or somebody interviewing Jimand saying, Jim, tell me what you were doing when you were 16 years old.
(21:08):
Did you always wanna be an accountant?
How did you become an accountant?
What was your first job?
What was your first paycheck?
Did you have a paper round?
Did you sell lemonade on a street corner?
Let's get into the personality ofJim, so that's one shot Window is the
website and the about us page for anindividual, but the other is LinkedIn.
That's the world that we live in.
That's where accountants, recruitmentprofessionals, that's where they live.
(21:32):
It's, they might go on social, but that'swhere their professional profile is.
Mm-hmm.
And if you are not leveragingthat and putting good stuff about you, people will go on that.
And you're absolutely right.
They'll see tumbleweed.
It's an echo chamber,there's nothing going on.
But that is where you will.
Be relevant or you will be forgotten aboutand people will pass on to someone else.
(21:55):
So we are all, I won't saywe all have a responsibility to manage our personal brand.
You'll know there's some accountantsthat don't want a personal brand, they don't want to be a leader.
They just love accounting.
They love the number crunch in, theywant to be in a dark room with an Excel spreadsheet and a bit of ai,
and really look after the clientsand get great results and crunch the audit and everything else.
(22:16):
Great.
Good luck to them.
But for the rest of us, if wehave any aspirations to leadership or we want to be influential,
even extroverts will influence10,000 people in their lifetimes.
If we want to be a force for good,if we want to make a difference, if
we want to serve our clients, thenit is incumbent upon us, isn't it?
(22:37):
To put out there some good thoughts,some good ideas, some good content.
Showcase your expertise.
Have a crusade.
Yep.
Have a niche that you want to be a forcefor good in, and we can all do that.
My proposition here is just to helpelicit that from them and make it easy for them to get it out there.
(22:57):
Well, and it's amazing when you,when you start to give somebody
an audience, and in this case tostart with an audience of one.
They're talking to you.
Yeah.
Barriers start to come down and, andlet's be honest, the, if you start working with somebody this month, the videos
that they put out this month, even thoughthe work that you do to edit is gonna be top-notch to make it sound competent and
(23:20):
intelligent, but the video they put outtoday is not gonna be anything compared to the video they put out 12 months from now.
That's
such a great
point.
It's only gonna get better.
It's only gonna get better.
And not only is it gonna get better withthe, what they're doing with you, but we live in a world today that is technology
driven and the work that you're doingwith your clients over video as well as face-to-face, it's only gonna get
(23:45):
better the more you do it and the morethe higher level of comfort you get.
I wrote a book a few years ago.
I'll show you it now.
Exhibit A for the video.
Here's the book.
Build Your Reputation.
You guys don't need to buy it.
It's on Amazon.
It's about standing out in your career.
And a mentor of mine once said tome, it's not what the book makes for you, it's what it makes of you.
(24:08):
Nice.
And what he meant by that is whenyou write a book like that, unless we're JK Rowling writing Harry Potter
or something like that, we're notgonna make millions from our book our thousands or any money at all.
But it's what it makes of you as a person.
Now, your first episode of CPA Life,and you've done 60 odd episodes now,
so you've shown real longevity in thegame, but you probably could look.
(24:29):
Back at that first episode and roll youreyes and think, how lousy was I back then?
Because you've really honed your craft.
Absolutely, and you're right, theseaccountants, everything's difficult before it becomes easy, but if they
put out more thought leadership,it's what it makes of them.
It's how they develop as peopleand the skills they upgrade
(24:49):
and the confidence they get forputting their thoughts out there.
Even if one or two people see it.
Yep.
It's not for the followers and thefans and the likes and everything else.
It's the person you become byarticulating your thoughts and being courageous enough to put them out there.
It's what it makes of you,not what it makes for you.
I like how you put that because we placeda gentleman with a firm on the recruiting side of our business this past December.
(25:16):
Right.
In a senior tax manager role.
Mm-hmm.
What it really came down to, betweenhim and another candidate was he had invested over the last five years
since Covid hit, he started doing iton TikTok just for fun, but creating videos, making fun of stupid tax issues.
(25:41):
Things that he was seeing on returns,things that he was seeing that clients were asking if they could
do, you know, just debunking a lotof the, the crazy tax myths that are out there on TikTok or Instagram.
But he had created this followingover the last five years, while
also helping drive some businessfor the firm that he was a part of.
Love that.
And the way that my client looked atthat is, look at how much he has owned.
(26:06):
Who he is and the perception of themarketplace and who he is and how's
that gonna translate into who weare and what we're trying to build.
And they saw it as nothing but a hugepositive that he had taken control of
that and not let somebody else writethat narrative or lack thereof for him.
A criticism of accountants isthey're not entrepreneurial enough.
(26:27):
Mm-hmm.
Because accounting is black and white.
It's risk mitigation, it's playingsafe, but they serve a community
that are often entrepreneurs whoare pioneering and risk takers.
And so the argument is.
Accountants can't really understandmy business 'cause they've never ran a business and they're not entrepreneurs.
But if they are gonna be advisors andconsultants and be future thinking, they need to be more entrepreneurial.
(26:52):
So what you've described there withthat guy starting that channel, that platform, he's someone that's
been entrepreneurial because heis turning nothing into something.
He's birthed something, he's hada burden or an idea, and he's done something with it and he's ran with it.
So that is a great example ofan entrepreneurially minded.
Accounting professional, and if wechallenge a lot of accountants, there would be that spark in them that they want
(27:18):
to talk a little bit more about that orthat kind of thing really excites them, or that burdens them or that annoys them.
They've got a breakthrough idea there.
They've got the makings of a. A littleseries or a post or an interview or something that they could run with.
Otherwise, it just dies inside them.
Yep.
The idea never comes to fruition.
(27:38):
It never gets birthed.
Thanks for joining us for part oneof John Randolph's conversation, focusing on talent within the
accounting space with the founder ofAccounting Influencers and host of the Accounting Influencers podcast.
Rob Brown, part two will air April 23rd.
Be sure to subscribe and goto CPALifePodcast.com for
(28:02):
transcripts, links, and bios,and to learn more about the show.
We'll see you next time on CPA
Life!
Professionalproductions.net
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life wherewe taught culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in
an industry that has been stuck witha, we've always done it that way.
Mindset.
For far too long, join host John Randolph.
And learn how a sustainablefamily friendly career in public
accounting doesn't have tobe the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
Hey everyone.
Thank you for joining us today for anotherepisode of the CPA Life Podcast where
we spend time digging into what it takesto build a modern minded people-centric.
Firm in today's highly competitivetalent landscape of public accounting, and today we are continuing with our
(00:47):
series that we've been in the middleof for the last few weeks while we're spending some time talking to
a number of talent leaders and talentadvocates who spend their time focused.
On the challenges and the needs thatCPA firm leaders are facing in today's market, and today we are joined by Rob
Brown, who brings a unique perspectiveto the table as a CEO of the accounting influencers, which is a professional,
(01:12):
trusted members only organization forindividuals and companies that are operating in the accounting vertical.
On top of that, Rob is also thehost of the accounting flus.
And the Accounting Talent podcast.
He's a conference chair to multipleaccounting focused organizations, a professional interviewer, a
panel moderator, employee brand,and employer brand advocate within the accounting industry.
(01:35):
So we're gonna talk abouta lot of those things.
But in the meantime,Rob, welcome to the show.
Thank you, John.
I'm exhausted just hearing all of that.
I didn't realize I did so much.
I must lay a few things down.
Yeah, it, it absolutely is a mouthful,but when you start looking at all the
things you do, sometimes we take a stepback and go, do I really do all that?
No wonder I'm gassedat the end of the day.
(01:57):
Well, we all wear so many hats, don't we?
And on top of that, father andhusband and everything else, we do
a lot of things to a slightly betterthan average standard, don't we?
We absolutely try to, and I think thatyou do an excellent job with that, with the content that you put out with
the work and the advocacy that youput forth in the accounting space.
And I wanna spend some timetalking about those things today.
(02:18):
But before we dig into a lot ofthose challenges, I. Issues and some of the possible solutions.
I don't know if they'll be the rightsolutions, but we can offer some
to, to those things that, that theaccounting industry is facing today.
Let's take a little bit of strollthrough your background and give
me a snapshot of how you broughtyour career to where you are
(02:40):
today.
Former high school math teacher.
I did four years in the uk, four yearsin Hong Kong and in international school,
but got to that point where I felt Iwas just coaching kids to pass tests.
Yeah.
Started to plan a root out of teachingand took a master's in human resources
and thought training developmentwill be a good fit for my skillset.
(03:01):
Ended up.
Doing some training as an associatefor a guy that worked with accountants.
He was an accountant at Baker Tillyhere in the uk and he taught accountants
how to network and win referralsand get that kind of business.
So I learned from him and endedup doing it in my own way.
And for 20 years ran something calledthe Business Development Academy.
(03:22):
Mm-hmm.
Working with bankers, accountants,lawyers, but mostly accountants.
In 2016, I had a stroke,which was very unexpected.
Oh wow.
And a brain hemorrhage and justforced me to simplify my life.
When you have moments likethat fork in the road.
And I had a very big accountingfirm in the UK that were very loyal to me throughout my rehab.
(03:43):
And at that point I laid downeverything apart from accountants, and I started a podcast called Accounting
Influencers because I wanted tobe more well known in the space.
I was a little well known,but not very well known.
And so I started scouring theuniverse for people that influenced accountants, people that accountants
listened to, and interviewed them andfound out what they were all about.
(04:05):
I enjoyed that so much being thatinterviewer, that podcaster that I stopped doing the business development and the
training stuff and started to run a group,as you said in the intro for influencers.
You've also mentionedthe advocacy for CPAs.
I am a part qualified accountant.
I took a degree in accountingafter I finished high school.
Mm. Because I thought I wanted tobe an accountant, but I, I killed that dream and became a teacher.
(04:30):
So I get accountants and I think they'redoing an amazing job and there's not enough people advocating for them.
I know you in CPA life, you shinea light on some of the great people running firms and how they're.
Doing things differently and, and tryingto blaze a trail and be a pioneer.
So yeah, let's definitely talk about that.
Accountants are the guardians ofbusiness, the gatekeepers of data.
(04:51):
Yep.
And they occupy such a critical role.
But sadly, the accounting profe, you callit an industry, we call it a profession
because we put it on a power with thelegal profession, the medical profession.
And actually calling it an industry mightbe part of the problem, John, because it puts you down at in blue collar territory.
That's a great point.
It it's not the esteemedprofession it should be.
(05:12):
So we call it an industry and it's.
I don't like it.
The tech industry, the accountingindustry for me describes all
the tech companies and everythingsurrounding the accounting profession.
But one of the things we could all dois tell a better story about accounting.
And in CPA Life, I love what you're doingin, in shining a light on what's good.
In the profession andthe great people in it.
(05:35):
You know, there's so many people thatare doing so many things well, and
I think that you're right, Rob, weminimize so much of the work that's done.
But when you think about the fact that,you know, in, in the space that we're
in today with the accounting profession,and I like the way that you put that.
When you think of where we are in theaccounting profession today, if we continue down the path that we're heading
down, where we have fewer people doingthe work, less talent available to do the work, that is gonna begin to drastically
(06:03):
impact the trust that the public hasin overall business, in investment in banking, in managing their money.
All of those things begin to come intoa bigger question if we don't have
the right people in the professiondoing the work that needs to be done.
And you're right, it's astory we've gotta tell.
(06:23):
Well, there's a couple ofthings you brought out there.
You mentioned the word trust.
It is at a premium these days.
Trust in the government, trustin the armed forces, trust in
the judicial system, trust in theeducation system, trust in politics.
It's at an all time low right now.
Mm-hmm.
Trust in relationships.
Divorce isn't an all time high.
Trust in social media.
We don't believe stuff.
There's so much hype out there, so.
(06:44):
Is accounting a profession we can trust?
It doesn't do itself any favorswith some of the audit scandals and the errors that occur in the news.
So that's one thing.
But to the point of, let me ask you this.
Whose responsibility is it, do you think?
I. To be the voice of the professionare who's responsible for the brand of accounting as a career choice.
(07:05):
John,
you know, it's interesting.
That's a very interesting question becauseI think that there's so many people that
would say as a profession, especiallyspeaking to the younger audience, it's.
The professors, it's the collegesthat are helping build that story and tell that story.
But at the end of the day,can you trust that story?
(07:26):
Because you know, in the worldthat we're living in here in the States, I know that you're overseas
in the uk, but in the States we'vegot, you know, all the wonderful.
Stuff, regardless of how you feelabout it, support or not support it going on with Elon Musk and Doge.
And you know, the simplephilosophy of follow the money.
If you follow the money in the accountingprograms in today's marketplace,
that money is coming from large,big four firms, large corporations.
(07:49):
And so there's always gonna be a bent.
To point kids towards that path.
And once they get on that path,that is a path that is designed to
grind and churn and not put peoplein a place to tell a great story.
There's a lot of challenge between howdo we tell a better story and how do we
(08:10):
protect those that have a desire to tella better story coming outta college.
So let's have a look atwhat you've said there.
You've.
I tried to lay some of the responsibilityat the feet of the academics.
You're right, they do have a roleto play, but by the time budding accountants get to the professors,
they've already chosen accountingas a career because they're probably majoring in accounting, so, mm-hmm.
(08:32):
But there is that.
There's the big four.
They have a big responsibilitybecause you're right, they shape what most people think of accountants.
Yep.
And that is the nirvana for manypeople coming into accounting.
I've gotta be in a top four firm anda big four firms play on that because they will try and cream off the very
best coming out of universities andput them through the grind, as you
(08:54):
say, and chain them to a desk for10, 15 years and make them big money.
But they will exhort apound of flesh about that.
Mm-hmm.
We could throw in the statesocieties, the professional.
Bodies, the governing bodiesof accounting, and say they've got a role to play.
We could lay the brand of theprofession at the foot of every
accountant, CPA out there to say,we've all got a role to play.
(09:15):
The problem is if you lay itat the feet of one stakeholder,
they've just got one point ofview, one perspective, absolutely.
On this, if you lay at the of everybody.
Then nobody does anything because everyonethinks everyone else is gonna do it.
It's like climate change.
If you say it's everyone's job for theenvironment, then I, I won't recycle 'cause everyone else is gonna do it.
(09:39):
Mm-hmm.
So it's a tricky one.
But we do know the brand ofaccounting is strong in that it, it's got a lot to offer.
But you're right.
We don't tell a good enough story,and I like what you are doing in that.
You're digging it up.
I said shining a light on it.
You are trying to focus on what'sgood in accounting and the great
things that are going on, but wecould all tell a better story.
(10:02):
Yeah.
I think if, if we all look at itas, as it's my responsibility, as you were saying that.
I thought about a situation Rob years ago.
I played baseball growing upthrough college a couple years
outta college and ended up okaycoaching my girls, playing softball.
Wow.
And with my youngest daughter coachingher team, we went through a period
of time where every time somethingwould happen in a game that wasn't.
(10:23):
You know what was supposed tohappen, the mindset with the kids.
When we'd sit back and kind of do a rehashthe next day in practice about the game,
a lot of times the mindset was, well, youknow, I thought Sally was gonna get it.
I thought
somebody else was gonna do this.
I, well, the reason why I didn'trun as hard is because I thought
that Sarah was gonna get that,and so I just had this idea.
(10:46):
Two days later it was raining outside.
We had practice in the gym at a localschool that, that we had some ties to, and I had a box I. I took this
box and I put it in the shape andkind of carved it up a little bit.
I like to do a little handy work,put it in the shape of a casket, and we put the casket on a table
and I had all the girls come in andsaid, Hey, before we have practice today, we're gonna have a funeral.
(11:10):
Whoa.
We've had a teammate pass away.
Oh,
our teammate's name is somebody else.
Very good.
Somebody else is nolonger a part of our team.
Yeah.
So somebody else is no longergonna be able to get that ball.
Yeah.
Somebody else is no longergonna be able to get that hit.
It's gonna be your responsibility.
(11:32):
I see what you did there.
That's really good.
And I think that in the accountingworld, we gotta get to a point that we
recognize and understand that somebodyelse is no longer a part of the team.
Mm. It's me.
It's you.
It's everybody else and we'vegot to tell a better story.
Let's turn this into a TrueCrime podcast for the moment.
And there's a, I dunno if you knowthis, but I think it's in Robert Cialdini's book on Influence.
(11:56):
He talked about an experiment.
It, not an experiment, it'ssomething that happened in New York.
There was a tenement square and a murder.
Somebody got mugged and murdered in themiddle of this and you can picture all the apartments on in a quadrant type thing.
All four sites all looking on.
And 117 people saw thiswoman getting stabbed.
And she got stabbed multiple times, died.
(12:17):
Nobody called the police, nobody.
And when they interviewed all thewitnesses afterwards about what happened, why didn't you call the police?
Well, everyone was looking at it.
I thought everyone else would do it.
I thought the policehad already been called.
I thought it was done.
Somebody else.
Yep.
And nobody ended up calling the police.
Mm-hmm.
Police arrived hours laterjust as a, an incidental call.
(12:40):
By the way, we've got a deadwoman lying in our buildings here.
So, yeah.
Crazy story.
A little bit gruesome, but goesto your point of we've all got we responsibility, we can all do something.
Yep.
We can't assume that somebody elseis gonna do it, and if we all pick up and lift a little bit of that weight.
It tends to be a lot lighter whenmany hands are put to the work.
(13:05):
Which kinda leads me to a question thatI wanted to ask you, and we talked a little bit about this when we were kind
of catching up before the phone call, butthere is a piece of a business that you
are starting to roll out to some of youraudience and some of your clients where.
You are helping tell a better story.
You're helping people tell a better story.
(13:25):
Tell me a little bit about that andkind of what the vision is with that and
what the end result that you're hopingto be able to deliver with people.
You just asked me about threequestions there, which is what a good podcast interview should do.
So I am as an interviewermyself, like you used to curating stories from very smart people.
(13:47):
Look at the average accountant,technically super smart, very well
qualified, excellent at what they do,passionate, really caring, however.
They don't brand themselves well,they don't create thought leadership.
They don't have muchof a personal profile.
Some do, and you'llknow a few John mm-hmm.
That are out there a little bit moreas an ambassador of their brand, as a advocate of their own firm.
(14:10):
But they don't tell stories.
Well, they've probably got amarketing department if they're
a big firm saying, I wish you'dwrite some more thought leadership.
You've got the domain expertise.
You've got the experience.
You know about the ins and outs oftax law and audit and everything else.
You are working with a particular niche.
But these accountants don't do it.
They're not bred to do it.
They don't want to putthought leadership out there.
They don't have the time.
(14:30):
They don't know how to write an article.
They're not comfortable going on avideo, turning on a webcam or whatever it is, and creating some content.
But they need to do itfor a number of reasons.
First, it's great to attractnew business for the firm, and that never does any harm, right?
Second, it's great to buildemployer brand of a firm saying, Hey, these are our people.
(14:51):
This firm is a great place to work.
This is the kind ofthing that we are doing.
This is what we talk about.
This is why we should be an employerof choice for you talent out there.
Another reason to do it is relevance.
You can easily becomeredundant in this world.
With technology overtaking all ofus with business changing so fast.
(15:12):
If accountants want to be thattrusted advisor, they need to be seen to be talking the language
of business and putting contentout there that says commentary.
On what's happening, thepolitical situation, accountants
would've a lot to say about howbusiness is changing so fast.
Mm-hmm.
And what Trump andeveryone else are doing.
So, and just for personal brandand career capital, it's great for accountants and leaders to be seen as
(15:40):
putting things out to the, to say, I'mimportant, I've got something to say.
I've got a crusade.
I wanna be a force for good.
I wanna right some wrongs.
I wanna bust some myths.
I want to own a narrative.
I've got important stuff to say aboutmy world and, and the business world.
So with all the objections that anaccounting leader might come up with, or a firm owner to not produce content, I'm
(16:03):
saying to them, let me as an interviewer,as an industry, or a profession expert that knows the right question.
Let me interview youfor 30 minutes a month.
Uh, give me 12 months and everymonth I'll interview somebody in your firm that has something to say.
Mm-hmm.
Even if it's as simple as, John,what's been on your mind this month?
What's caught your eye this month?
(16:24):
What have you beenthinking about this month?
What kind of conversations have youbeen having with clients this month?
What problems have you solved this month?
What are you doing next month?
That's exciting?
What eventually you go intoin the next few months and these, all of these questions.
The bring out great stories.
How have you wowed and delighteda client in the last few weeks?
How have you.
(16:46):
For a client of yours.
So when I interview accountants like that,they never show up something to say, and because we position it as a fireside chat
and a conversation, it's authentic, it'spersonal, it doesn't take much prompting.
But out of that 30 minute interview,me and my team will create some thought leadership pieces, some
LinkedIn pieces, some videosnippets that can be branded up.
(17:11):
With you, your personal brand, your firm'slogo, anything else, and it's almost a done for you package to say to that
person, to that firm, Hey, take this andput it out there on the social channels.
And John, I know you work with people thatthat do this for you because you put out some great thought leadership stuff and
it takes that bit of structure and processand somebody actually sitting you down and saying, right, John, what's on your mind?
(17:34):
Yep.
So my proposition is taking a lot ofthe pain out there and making it easy for them and making it quick for them.
'cause they don't have the technicalexpertise to do the videos.
They don't know what to talk about.
So we're making it super easy toaccess and make something happen.
Well, I think it was DaleCarnegie in his book, how To Win Friends and Influence People.
(17:57):
One of the things that DaleCarnegie talked about is everybody loves to talk about themselves.
And their jobs.
Ask people about their family, ask peopleabout their personal interests, ask per people about the things they enjoy doing
outside of work, but more than that, alsoask them about what they do at work and what they're passionate about at work.
Yeah.
People love to talk about those things.
That's their identity, isn't it?
(18:17):
Absolutely.
It is.
Yeah.
And I think that, like you said,when you structure it as a fireside chat, when you structure it as just.
Having a conversation.
There's so much that flows that when youstart to be able to take that knowledge that somebody has and put it into a
video type format, and you and I havetalked about this over the last couple
of years that we've engaged video,for lack of a better way to put it.
(18:38):
Video engages, video sell.
Yeah.
It's the currency of attention, John.
Mm-hmm.
Particularly for the younger generations,and by younger I mean under 40.
Maybe under 50.
We're all on TikTok and YouTubeand everything else, so don't
tell me video doesn't work ingetting people's attention,
and it's something thatpeople will pay for.
(19:00):
It's something that will drivepeople to you as an individual, you as a service provider.
And then again, goes back tothe initial thing that we were talking about, you having a voice.
To be able to tell a better storyin this space and in this industry.
'cause there's, there's some reallypretty cool stories that I know that when you've sat and you've talked
(19:21):
to industry insiders, industryexperts, there's some really cool stories that come out of successes.
They've had clients, they've been ableto solve problems for wins that their firm has been able to have, things
they've done to expand their organizationwhen it comes to people and talent.
So there's so many thingsthat you can pull out of that.
(19:43):
You know, one of the challenges that weface a lot of times when, whenever we start talking to clients on the recruiting
side of our business about candidates, alot of times clients will come back to us
and say, Hey, do you know anything aboutthis guy from a social media standpoint?
I couldn't find anythingabout him on LinkedIn.
He hasn't posted anything in fourand a half years, five years.
In fact, his Lincoln profile isn'teven up to date with his career.
Boy, what an impact that would have.
(20:05):
To be able to have some consistentdata that speaks to the value you bring to a potential organization.
Right.
And you mentioned LinkedIn there.
There are two shop windows foraccountants, two places where they
can be checked out, where peoplecan go and do due diligence.
If I come across a good accountant,I'll get a reference to Affirm.
(20:26):
My first stop might be the website.
Specifically the about Us page.
Mm-hmm.
Who am I dealing with here?
What do I know about this person?
And so many bios onwebsites say, this is Jim.
He works in our tax department.
He is been with us four years andhe does CrossFit on the weekend, and he graduated at this university.
(20:46):
And his expertise areas ofthis, which is fine, but I don't know that guy as a person.
It's nothing different to a billion otherprofiles of accountants on websites.
Mm-hmm.
There's nothing individualand differentiated about it.
What I'd love to see on there is avideo of Jim saying, hi everybody.
I'm Jim or somebody interviewing Jimand saying, Jim, tell me what you were doing when you were 16 years old.
(21:08):
Did you always wanna be an accountant?
How did you become an accountant?
What was your first job?
What was your first paycheck?
Did you have a paper round?
Did you sell lemonade on a street corner?
Let's get into the personality ofJim, so that's one shot Window is the
website and the about us page for anindividual, but the other is LinkedIn.
That's the world that we live in.
That's where accountants, recruitmentprofessionals, that's where they live.
(21:32):
It's, they might go on social, but that'swhere their professional profile is.
Mm-hmm.
And if you are not leveragingthat and putting good stuff about you, people will go on that.
And you're absolutely right.
They'll see tumbleweed.
It's an echo chamber,there's nothing going on.
But that is where you will.
Be relevant or you will be forgotten aboutand people will pass on to someone else.
(21:55):
So we are all, I won't saywe all have a responsibility to manage our personal brand.
You'll know there's some accountantsthat don't want a personal brand, they don't want to be a leader.
They just love accounting.
They love the number crunch in, theywant to be in a dark room with an Excel spreadsheet and a bit of ai,
and really look after the clientsand get great results and crunch the audit and everything else.
(22:16):
Great.
Good luck to them.
But for the rest of us, if wehave any aspirations to leadership or we want to be influential,
even extroverts will influence10,000 people in their lifetimes.
If we want to be a force for good,if we want to make a difference, if
we want to serve our clients, thenit is incumbent upon us, isn't it?
(22:37):
To put out there some good thoughts,some good ideas, some good content.
Showcase your expertise.
Have a crusade.
Yep.
Have a niche that you want to be a forcefor good in, and we can all do that.
My proposition here is just to helpelicit that from them and make it easy for them to get it out there.
(22:57):
Well, and it's amazing when you,when you start to give somebody
an audience, and in this case tostart with an audience of one.
They're talking to you.
Yeah.
Barriers start to come down and, andlet's be honest, the, if you start working with somebody this month, the videos
that they put out this month, even thoughthe work that you do to edit is gonna be top-notch to make it sound competent and
(23:20):
intelligent, but the video they put outtoday is not gonna be anything compared to the video they put out 12 months from now.
That's
such a great
point.
It's only gonna get better.
It's only gonna get better.
And not only is it gonna get better withthe, what they're doing with you, but we live in a world today that is technology
driven and the work that you're doingwith your clients over video as well as face-to-face, it's only gonna get
(23:45):
better the more you do it and the morethe higher level of comfort you get.
I wrote a book a few years ago.
I'll show you it now.
Exhibit A for the video.
Here's the book.
Build Your Reputation.
You guys don't need to buy it.
It's on Amazon.
It's about standing out in your career.
And a mentor of mine once said tome, it's not what the book makes for you, it's what it makes of you.
(24:08):
Nice.
And what he meant by that is whenyou write a book like that, unless we're JK Rowling writing Harry Potter
or something like that, we're notgonna make millions from our book our thousands or any money at all.
But it's what it makes of you as a person.
Now, your first episode of CPA Life,and you've done 60 odd episodes now,
so you've shown real longevity in thegame, but you probably could look.
(24:29):
Back at that first episode and roll youreyes and think, how lousy was I back then?
Because you've really honed your craft.
Absolutely, and you're right, theseaccountants, everything's difficult before it becomes easy, but if they
put out more thought leadership,it's what it makes of them.
It's how they develop as peopleand the skills they upgrade
(24:49):
and the confidence they get forputting their thoughts out there.
Even if one or two people see it.
Yep.
It's not for the followers and thefans and the likes and everything else.
It's the person you become byarticulating your thoughts and being courageous enough to put them out there.
It's what it makes of you,not what it makes for you.
I like how you put that because we placeda gentleman with a firm on the recruiting side of our business this past December.
(25:16):
Right.
In a senior tax manager role.
Mm-hmm.
What it really came down to, betweenhim and another candidate was he had invested over the last five years
since Covid hit, he started doing iton TikTok just for fun, but creating videos, making fun of stupid tax issues.
(25:41):
Things that he was seeing on returns,things that he was seeing that clients were asking if they could
do, you know, just debunking a lotof the, the crazy tax myths that are out there on TikTok or Instagram.
But he had created this followingover the last five years, while
also helping drive some businessfor the firm that he was a part of.
Love that.
And the way that my client looked atthat is, look at how much he has owned.
(26:06):
Who he is and the perception of themarketplace and who he is and how's
that gonna translate into who weare and what we're trying to build.
And they saw it as nothing but a hugepositive that he had taken control of
that and not let somebody else writethat narrative or lack thereof for him.
A criticism of accountants isthey're not entrepreneurial enough.
(26:27):
Mm-hmm.
Because accounting is black and white.
It's risk mitigation, it's playingsafe, but they serve a community
that are often entrepreneurs whoare pioneering and risk takers.
And so the argument is.
Accountants can't really understandmy business 'cause they've never ran a business and they're not entrepreneurs.
But if they are gonna be advisors andconsultants and be future thinking, they need to be more entrepreneurial.
(26:52):
So what you've described there withthat guy starting that channel, that platform, he's someone that's
been entrepreneurial because heis turning nothing into something.
He's birthed something, he's hada burden or an idea, and he's done something with it and he's ran with it.
So that is a great example ofan entrepreneurially minded.
Accounting professional, and if wechallenge a lot of accountants, there would be that spark in them that they want
(27:18):
to talk a little bit more about that orthat kind of thing really excites them, or that burdens them or that annoys them.
They've got a breakthrough idea there.
They've got the makings of a. A littleseries or a post or an interview or something that they could run with.
Otherwise, it just dies inside them.
Yep.
The idea never comes to fruition.
(27:38):
It never gets birthed.
Thanks for joining us for part oneof John Randolph's conversation, focusing on talent within the
accounting space with the founder ofAccounting Influencers and host of the Accounting Influencers podcast.
Rob Brown, part two will air April 23rd.
Be sure to subscribe and goto CPALifePodcast.com for
(28:02):
transcripts, links, and bios,and to learn more about the show.
We'll see you next time on CPA
Life!
Professionalproductions.net
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.