February 26, 2025 • 39 mins
John Randolph delves into the evolving landscape of recruiting in public accounting with Kerry Billington, Managing Partner at Spartan Placements, on Episode 62 of CPA Life. Kicking off a month-long series focused on perspectives in the recruiting space, their conversation highlights the significance of culture, flexible work environments, and the impact of private equity in the industry, as Kerry provides insights into recruiting trends, the role of AI, and strategies for attracting and retaining top talent in the profession. She emphasizes the need for transparency, autonomy, and the right work-life balance to keep professionals engaged and fulfilled, with a simple, unifying theme: That listening to what people want is the best thing you can do to land the workforce you need.
Get the full show notes and more resources at CPALifePodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life, wherewe talk culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in an industry
that has been stuck with a we've alwaysdone it that way mindset for far too long.
Join host John Randolph and learnhow a sustainable, family friendly
career in public accounting doesn'thave to be the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
Hey folks, welcome back to another episodeof CPA Life, the podcast that Shines a bright light on what some of today's
people centric firms and firm leaders aredoing in the marketplace today to build amazing CPA firms, advisory firms that
(00:46):
allow professionals to build great careerswithout really having to choose between.
A great career and a greatlife outside of the office.
We work on highlighting firms thatare really passionate about showing people that you don't have to sacrifice
your life or your family at thealtar of your job to build a career.
In public accounting.
And today we're going to be starting aseries that we're going to focus on for the next few weeks, where we're going
(01:12):
to spend some time talking to recruitersand talent acquisition professionals in the marketplace who spend their
time working in the public accountingsector, providing services to public accounting, CPA firms, advisory firms.
And today we're going to hang outa little bit with Kerry Billington, who is the managing partner.
With Spartan Placements, a specialtysearch firm based in Akron, Ohio.
(01:35):
Carrie focuses her time with herteam on partnering with mid sized firms in the East coast area.
Carrie, thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, John, thanks for having me.
I'm really excited to talk to you todaybecause I love discussing my journey.
I mean, it's not, you know, the mosttraditional path into recruiting, but it's one I definitely wouldn't change.
(01:55):
So, and with that, I also lovetalking about public accounting.
It's definitely a specialized space, andI definitely feel like I found my niche.
You know, you mentioned a nontraditional path into recruiting.
Yes.
I don't know if there's atraditional path into recruiting.
I think there's probably a little bitmore of a traditional path now, but, you know, I said for years, and I still say
(02:19):
today when I talk to people about, Youknow, working in our business, I don't know of anybody that's ever gotten into
this business with the intent of, hey,I'm going to grow up and I'm going to be
a recruiter in the third party recruitingspace or talent acquisition space.
Yeah, it kind of finds you, doesn't it?
It really kind of does.
(02:40):
So one of the things that we typicallydo it at this point in the show is give folks a little bit of a
glimpse of who you are and how you'vegotten to this point in your career.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour life and how you've gotten to be at Spartan Placements.
Sure, absolutely.
So, I guess I'll just start bysaying I started my career out as a police dispatcher, actually.
(03:04):
And
then once we had our two daughters,Juliana and Emerson, I was a stay at home mom for a little while.
And let me tell you, thatis definitely the hardest.
And most rewarding job there is out there.
You know, I definitely love beingpresent for my family, but also
miss working towards my professionalgoals and have always been motivated.
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So I knew I wanted something with, youknow, the flexibility that would allow
me to still be there for the girls,but also build something of my own.
So when I was trying to figureout, you know, what that would be.
You know, I looked at numerous differentthings, but my husband actually has been in recruiting for years.
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So he's in the healthcare stackingindustry and I watched him build his
career really from the ground up andit sparked my interest in the industry.
Just, you know, the ability toconnect with people and match them
with the right opportunities to watchbusinesses grow and build relationships.
(04:09):
That's always been somethingthat's really excited me.
So that's when I decided tostart Spartan Placements.
You know, I wanted to create opportunitiesfor others and build something meaningful for myself at the same time.
So, you know, when we first started out,we were trying to figure out who we were.
We were operating in, you know, a coupledifferent industries all over the place.
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And then once I found public accounting,I was, I was like, this is it.
This is for me.
So
and that's kind of different becauseit's typically a space in the accounting finance world Speaking from experience.
It's typically a place if you I thinkif you were to pack a hundred Accounting finance recruiters from all over the
(04:53):
country into a room and say hey showof hands How many of you guys love working in the public accounting space
and providing support from a recruitingand talent acquisition perspective to the public accounting space?
If you're lucky, I think you might have10 percent of the room raise their hand.
And that's it.
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Well, that's kind of part of it.
I mean, I think there's a needfor people that understand it and they're passionate about it.
It's such a specialized space with somany different nuances to it that, you know, if you really don't speak the
language and if you don't understandit, you're going to have a hard time figuring out the right match.
Absolutely.
And it's something I thinkthat a lot of people dabble in.
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It's something that a lot of people justdip their toe in every now and then.
And that may work for somepeople in their business model.
It may work if they're supporting,in my opinion, larger firms with, you know, needs that, yes, they're
dire needs and a very large firm, butthe machine's going to keep going.
If those holes don't get filled at abig four firm or a top 50 firm, the machine is going to continue to go.
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But when you're talking about midsized firms like you work with, small to mid sized firms like I work
with, that one hire is, it could be acritical role that's a linchpin role to keeping the business moving forward.
Yep.
It's a very different dynamic.
Yeah, and they can'tafford to make mistakes.
No,
oftentimes
not at all.
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So, so you've been doing recruiting in thepublic accounting space for a little bit.
Tell me a little bit about kindof the focus that you guys have.
Is there a specific firm size thatyou feel like you bring the most
value to and where you guys havehad the most success partnering?
with organizations.
Yeah, so we've been specializedin working with CPA firms for four and a half years or so now.
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Really, my target partner is between,let's say, 25 person firm would be like the smallest firm that I
work with, and then I do work withsome firms, you know, 5, 000 plus.
So, you know, it's broad in termsof what size firm, it's more about
the partnership I can create and thecommunication through the process.
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So, you know, we're not looking towork with every firm that has a need
because let's be honest, every firm doeshave a need at some point or another.
So, you know, we are reallylooking for those true partners.
And, you know, I get a sense of that inconversation, just talking to, you know, at a smaller firm, a lot of times it's
partners that I begin the conversationswith, and then the larger firms, it comes down to that talent acquisition team and
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them looking for a true extension, truepartnership of what they do internally.
So it depends on the firm and dependson just what they're looking for and their growth goals as well.
Location wise, it's definitely theEast Coast, like you mentioned.
I'm in Ohio, so naturally, largepool in Ohio, but from there, like
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Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey,Florida, the Carolinas, Chicago.
Those are really our biggest markets,I would say, but just as my team continues to grow, I think our footprint.
Will grow as well.
So one of the, one of the questionsthat I wanted to ask you is, are there things that you're seeing consistent
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across the firms that you workwith that winning teams and winning leaders are doing as good or better?
Then their competition.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that there's a lotof little things that can set
firms apart and it really startsfrom that initial engagement.
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So, you know, obviously having agood sense of the market and what's going out in the market, having a.
Good partnership or a good recruitingfoundation, I think is important,
you know, for me specifically andthe partners that I work with.
And there's one that comes to mind that,you know, it's definitely one of my top partners that has it really figured out.
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So.
You know, it starts with us havinga seamless relationship and them knowing that the candidates we present
are well vetted, and in turn, theymove pretty quickly when they see, you know, a resume that they'd like.
And then from there, you know, theinternal team does a fantastic job
of, you know, keeping consistent withwhat we're telling candidates as well.
(09:28):
So, you know, conveying the firm's valueand Just talking about the opportunity and just different nuances about
the position and the specific teamsthat they're going to be working on.
So that consistent message,I think, is really important.
And then they have athoughtful interview process.
I feel like so many people miss this step,but it is so, so important to, you know, candidates experience going through the
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interview process when they're likelyinterviewing with multiple other firms.
So just being strategic aboutwho meets with the candidate.
Say they're interviewing someonecoming from big four, then, you know, they likely have somebody
internally that's been at big fourand they bring them into the interview process to give their perspective.
(10:16):
I think that goes a long way withcandidates and really helps like create a common ground there.
And then, of course, competitiveoffers, you know, the offer typically with this firm that I mentioned is.
Consistent with what I've discussed withthem up front, usually no surprises there.
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And another thing that they do that Ihave seen like nine times out of 10,
they, they end up with the candidate kindof because this also is a sign on bonus.
So sign on bonuses.
Go a long way.
I usually never asked for them.
Sometimes I do.
But with this specific firm, I neverask and they always put one on there.
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I think it makes the candidate feel valuedand just, you know, it definitely gives them a leg up in the process for sure.
And I think with retaining is just havingretention strategies that really work.
You know what I mean?
This is onboarding process.
And making sure that streamlined socialevents, flexible schedules, and really providing that career growth opportunity.
(11:25):
When you talk about culture andyou talk about bringing people on board, one of the things that
comes to mind is the whole remotehybrid, a hundred percent in office.
dynamic that it's still a topic ofdiscussion with a lot of firms, the firms that you partner with, the
firms that you're working with, whatare you seeing that they're doing and what are you seeing that works?
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And when I say works, let me qualify thatwhen it comes to selling an opportunity to candidates from your perspective,
what
works and what's an uphill battlefor you when it comes to geography.
Okay.
Yeah, you know, there's definitelybeen that noticeable push for bringing employees back into the office.
I see it more in specific marketsjust because, you know, it's
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just naturally happening andhappening more in other markets.
But from what I've seen, thefirms that remain open to.
Remote or flexible hybrid schedulesconsistently attract the best talent.
I mean, the reality ispeople want autonomy.
They want the option to go into theoffice oftentimes, but they don't want to mandate to go into the office.
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So, you know, it's having that officewithin arm's reach for collaboration and focus days, but they don't
want a rigid schedule that dictateswhen they go into the office.
Yeah, the firms that recognize and embracethe flexibility have the clear advantage.
I mean, they just do.
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I've had firms that say, Hey, we're goingright back into the office and it's, you know, it's kind of pushed back on them.
They've lost a lot of talent.
It's just created a ripple effectthat hasn't been effective.
So it's truly Having an approachthat isn't a one size fits all and kind of trying to make it work.
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So one of the stats that we'lltalk to clients about, and I don't
know if this is similar to what youguys have seen or completely off.
And maybe it's just something that we'reexperiencing in the size of firms that we talk to, but we track a bunch of data.
We look at a lot of differentnumbers and over the last two years, if it's a fully remote role.
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Like we don't even have an officeor we don't care if people are here.
It's fully remote work from anywhere.
We're in, you know, we're in Akron, Ohio,but you can be in Seattle, Washington.
We do not care.
Our time to fill on roles like that isusually anywhere from about 30 to 45 days.
Oh yeah.
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Roles that are hybrid in nature,meaning we have a geographic location and you need to be in the office.
Maybe there's not a, you know, dictatorialmindset of it's got to be on these
days, but you've got to be in theoffice one day a week, two days a week.
We want you, you know, within a certaingeography of the office kind of thing.
What we've typically seen istime to fill is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 140, 150 days.
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And if it is 100%.
In office, like we're here and weexpect everybody else to be here.
Our time to fill on those roles,and we haven't worked many of them, is usually about 6 to 12 months.
I don't know if you guys are seeing thattype of time frames with the searches that you're working on, or what are you seeing?
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Yeah, I would say that's,you know, pretty consistent.
I have a handful of clients thatare five days a week in the office.
So for us to take on that search,it has to be a market that we were fully entrenched into.
We have deep Canada pools and haveworked that market already because.
It's harder to find becauselet's be honest, you're right.
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It's a slim number of peoplethat actually want to be in five days a week with no flexibility.
So you start out with a batchof candidates who are interested in the potential position.
And then it's, it shrinks downto who's actually qualified for the nuances of the position.
And then it shrinks down to the peoplethat would even consider hybrid.
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And then from there to talk aboutsomebody who wants to come in five days a week, no exceptions, you've got maybe.
One candidate, you know, aneedle in the haystack that.
Is gonna work and be within thesalary range that you're expecting.
So Yeah, I mean that's pretty consistent.
I would say with what we see too.
Yep.
It's just a it's one of those things.
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I think that firms that are Doingthings right and doing things well back to your point I think that those
farm leaders realize that the 1980s,1990s, 2000, 2010 mindset of one size fits all is no longer something you
can buy into if you want to be a placethat people long to be a part of.
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And it sounds like that's kindof what you're experiencing and what you're seeing.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously, you know,COVID hit right and firms had to figure out how to work remotely.
But now people have figured it out.
And those true professionals thatwant to work are gonna sometimes work even harder in a remote environment.
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I know for me, times and days get blurredworking remote, you know, it doesn't, it's not like I'm sitting at a desk in an
office from nine to five, a lot of timesI'm working at weird hours, which yeah.
Public accountants have to do as well.
So, you know, I think it opens the doorfor harder working individuals, actually not being tied to the desk chair.
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One of the other big dynamics going onin the public accounting space right now is private equity coming into the space,
investing in firms, impacting firms,have you seen that impact any of the clients that you've been working with?
Have you seen that impact?
You know, candidates that are now inyour database or have raised their
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hand post a PE infusion into their firmto say, Hey, I may want to talk now.
What have, what have you seen?
With that entire phenomenontaking place over the last 12 to 24 months in the space.
Yeah, absolutely.
Gosh, I mean, I think the CPAspace in general it's in the four
plus years that we've been doingthis We've seen so many changes.
(17:51):
I feel like every Month or so.
There's a new challenge that we'retaking on, you know from the great resignation to aggressive counter offers
and the trend of everybody wanting tomove into industry and then of course
And how that's come to the table andreally thrown everything upside down.
You know, it's the wild west for sure,but I feel like we kind of thrive in that ever changing landscape.
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The PE money.
I mean, I work with actually ahandful of firms that have that, and I've seen a select number of
firms that, you know, with that PEbacking, it's actually been a real.
Positive thing.
I've seen some firms that, you know,they've made strategic changes due to
that, and they're able to grow in a,you know, entrepreneurial smart way.
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But I've also worked with somefirms where I've seen the reverse.
I've seen a lot of people leave.
I've seen people complain about barsconstantly changing to get that next promotion and taking away the family feel.
So it's a mixed bag.
I think it goes back to leadership.
It goes back to communication andtransparency, but yeah, I mean, it's
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definitely throwing public accountingupside down, I would say that.
One of the things I'll, I compare alot of things that we're dealing with in our industry too, is the marriage
mentoring and marriage coaching that mywife and I do outside of this business.
And, you know, one of the things thatwe always talk to couples about is don't ever use the words always or never.
Yeah, you know, you always do thisor you never do that kind of thing.
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And I think it's important that when itcomes to private equity, using the words always and never are not good either.
There's going to be somegood that comes out of that.
We can't argue that we can't saythat that's not going to happen,
but there's going to be some badthat comes out of that as well.
From the experience that you've seen,you know, you've mentioned that you
have a couple of firms that you'veworked with that have taken on PE money.
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One of the things that is the sell,if you will, to any industry, not only public accounting, but any
professional services space, anymanufacturing space, any, any space that is taking on private equity money.
One of the cells is we're going tohave the money to go out and hire the people and grow the firm the way
(20:14):
that we want to grow it, need to growit, have to grow it kind of thing.
Have you seen that infusion of privateequity money affect the hiring?
Or hiring plans positively of a firmthat previously either was slow growth or no growth that you're engaged with.
(20:35):
You know, it's, it'svaries by firm to firm.
So I have one firm that.
It honestly kind of goes back towhat I'm seeing with firms that are open to opportunistic hiring
because I think that is a big pieceof winning, you know, in the talent shortage game with public accounting.
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So I think that I've seen firmsbacked by PE that are still open to opportunistic hiring.
And because of that PE money, maybe,you know, they're able to take on that talent, you know, without a true need.
But I've seen other firmsthat are the absolute reverse.
Once they took on that PE money,PE comes in and kind of controls
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who they're hiring, who they'repromoting, what they're paying.
And I've also seen somelayoffs with that as well.
So again, it's a mixed bag and I thinkthat firm to firm, it can vary depending
on, you know, how that PE comes inand how much, how hands on they are.
Sorry, if that's kind of like aanswer that doesn't give you direct, because I'm, I'm definitely seeing
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both sides of the coin and canauthentically say I've seen both.
Well, and, and I think that that's apart of the dynamic of the space is.
There's going to be some, like I knowof at least a couple of firms that have taken on private equity money
that leadership has maintained a verystrong grip on the control of the firm.
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And I'm talking legacy leadership.
And because of that, the firm continuesto prosper just like they were before, but they're now doing it at a little
bit of a faster pace and a little bitof a better pace because they have the resources to be able to do that.
I've also seen private equitycome into a couple of firms.
Where there was a big promise of thepot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
(22:26):
And before we even started followingthe rainbow to the pot of gold,
the discussion was had that,Hey, our wagon is way too heavy.
We need to get some people off thewagon so that we can make the trip to the pot of gold a little bit faster.
And there were cuts that were made that.
They never saw it coming.
So, you know, again, I don't thinkit's a always or never situation.
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I think that people just have tobe, people have to be ready to be
flexible when they're sitting in afirm where private equity is coming in.
They need to make sure that theyunderstand what their options are.
Would you say that that's probably agood way to put it for the people on the inside that aren't at the partner level?
Yeah, I think it's transparency andjust kind of I would be concerned if there's no chatter about how things
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are going to go once PE comes in,so it's going to be interesting.
I feel like that is sucha topic in this space.
It's every other day.
I open up my LinkedIn andthere's an announcement of an acquisition or something like that.
There's an announcement of, youknow, a new firm with PE money.
So, that's a dynamic that everybodyhas to pay attention to right now.
One of, one of the things I wantedto ask you about is candidate flow in the marketplace today.
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The candidate pipeline in publicaccounting has been, as long as I've been doing this, a very tight
pipeline, regardless of, regardlessof how many people were in the pipeline 30 years ago versus today.
The pipeline has always been A verythin pipeline because you know people go into public accounting and then
(24:02):
there's that two to five year windowthat they're like, I got my experience.
I'm out now.
You throw into that.
You still got that dynamic, but now youthrow into that the entire 150 hour thing.
You've got all kinds of issues withbeing able to qualify for the test, sit
for the test, pass the test, get yourgrades done in a certain period of time.
I know of a handful of peoplethat are really pressing in that window to get their parts passed.
(24:24):
There's just a lot of thingsgoing on in the space right now.
Okay.
Couple that with all the dynamics thatare occurring in the accounting profession as a whole when it comes to tax laws
when it comes to accounting regulationsShortage of people so companies are hiring more all of those dynamics one
of the things that we're hearing fromclients and new clients is Hey, man, I
(24:48):
was doing this on my own two years ago,and it was kind of working but today
Yeah,
man, I Where'd all the people go?
Where'd all the people go, number one?
And number two, can youfind people where I can't?
Because I'm DIYing it, throwing ads allover the place and getting Firestone tire changers answering my ads.
(25:09):
Can you help me?
How do you help me?
So what do you say to firms thatyou talk to where that's the case?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the talent shortageis real and very competitive.
I mean, that's why I exist.
That's why you exist.
You know what I mean?
It's truly.
You have to be in front ofthe market every single day.
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That's why I think, you know,opportunistic hiring is huge.
If you're truly committed togrowing your team in a thoughtful
way, you know, partnering ofcourse, with a recruiter that.
Is out in the industry every day and,you know, talking to people, I mean, I run my business really relationship
(25:51):
based so candidates that I'm talkingto that are open to talking to me.
Now, a lot of times they'resaying, Hey, right now is not the best time for me to make a move.
We're going into busy season or whateverthe case or hey, I'm getting married.
I'm ideally not looking tomake a move for 6 months.
Right.
So for firm leaders, I think it'sreally important that they're also doing the same, they're out in the
(26:15):
markets, they're talking to people inthe industry, seniors, or, you know,
staff at other firms and networking,because when that time comes.
That candidates going to make a movebuilding that relationship and having that communication going ensures that
they're going to be looking at youwhen they're looking to make a move.
(26:37):
So, you know, for us andwhat we bring to the table.
I think that.
You know, there's a lot of firms toothat have internal talent acquisition.
There's, you know, a lot of the firmsthat I work with, they already have people that work internally, but there's still
value in working with somebody that'sa recruiter on the outside because, you
(26:58):
know, we give an unbiased opinion about,you know, all of the different firms.
And, you know, we know salaries.
Statistics for multiplefirms, multiple markets.
So just kind of giving that candidatethat information is always helpful to, you know, we really know what's
happening behind the scenes, firm tofirm, because of all the conversations
(27:21):
we're having every single weekwith multiple different candidates.
So giving that context is super helpful.
And then we always havemore than one opportunity.
So we're really ensuring that candidatesare finding their best fit and the reason why they're looking to make a move.
So, you know, partnering with a recruiterand as a partner at a firm, being out in the market, having conversations
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with people at different levels,those are things that people can do to kind of combat that talent shortage.
You know, and you bring up a greatpoint being proactive in that process, because if you're doing your job well.
And I know that you do, becausewe've talked a lot about this.
You're in front of people consistently,not just because they fit the job
(28:10):
you have today, but because they fitinto the wheelhouse of what you work.
And there may be some value that you couldbring to them, or they could bring to you two weeks, two months, two years from now.
The value in that, I think also to someof your clients and some of the firms that
you work with and that I work with, iswe don't deal with a lot of larger firms.
But we do have a couple of firms that areclients of ours that are larger that, you
(28:33):
know, would probably fit into the moldof what your stereotypical client is.
And it's always interesting with thosefirms that reach out to us and say, Hey, we're looking to fill this type of a role.
And we know of five people, threepeople, four people down the road at a couple of other firms.
(28:56):
That we'd love to talk tobut we can't approach them.
Can you do that for us?
Absolutely, we can.
Yeah I've definitely seen that too.
I mean there's firms thatare aligned with other firms.
There's You know just in the industryPeople don't like that approach.
(29:19):
Right.
Of course.
So yeah, I mean, that's another reasonto work with a recruiter who knows the market and understands the nuances
of your client base and who else inthe market has that same experience.
Yeah, there's a lot of value to talkingto somebody that is constantly having a
pulse on the marketplace and understandingwhat is going on in the marketplace.
(29:44):
It's, it's the difference of, you know,Hey, you need to go to the hospital.
You need to get taken care of.
And you have a choice.
You can go to the hospital wherethey're going to hook you up to
a monitor and someone's goingto watch that monitor 24 seven.
They're going to know exactly what's goingon with you, or we're going to take you to a hospital where when they have time.
Someone's going to come by yourroom and ask you how you're feeling.
(30:05):
Maybe slap a blood pressure cuffon you to see how things are going,
but they're not going to constantlybe in touch with who you are.
So until you have a heart attackin your bed, we may not ever know that there's an issue there.
So, like you said, Having thatrelationship with somebody that's got
a pulse on the marketplace constantly,there's immense value in doing that.
What are some other trends that you'reseeing going on in the industry, positively or negatively, that you're
(30:31):
seeing that are impacting either peopleor the firms that you're partnering with?
I mean, AI is a huge one.
It's definitely You know, as we look intothe future, it's one of the most exciting,
but yet disruptive forces in recruitingtalent acquisition and many other facets.
Of the world is AI disrupting.
(30:53):
So it's changing personally howrecruiters and internal recruiters
find candidates, evaluatecandidates and connect with talent.
It's really trying to find thatblend of how you use it, but not removing the human element to it.
AI is good for repetitive tasks, but.
(31:15):
You know, personally, I think thehuman element will always remain at the heart of the higher it just is because
recruiting isn't just about matchinga set of skills to a job description.
It's about finding the right personto thrive in a company's culture, contribute to the firm's longterm success.
And align with its values.
(31:35):
So, I think AI is a big one to payattention to as well in this world.
You know, it's interesting you mentionedthat one of the things that we've seen on some of the lower level hires in working
with some of the clients that we've workedwith is two evenly matched candidates.
You know, let's just say theyboth have one year, two years at
(31:57):
a big four firm or a top hundrednational firm as a tax associate.
But this one candidate has taken kindof a stereotypical track from accounting into public accounting, big four CPA firm.
They've got a decent background with ITbecause, you know, that's, they, they have to in the world that we live in today.
But then you've got this otherperson over here that maybe they have a minor in data analytics.
(32:19):
Maybe they have a master'sin data analytics.
Whatever the case may be, they are,Like a rock star when it comes to data analytics, AI, and technology, and we've
seen firms lean towards that person andthose people 100 percent of the time versus the person that's just a, and I
(32:40):
don't want to say a standard, but a twoyear tax person that is just good at tax.
Yeah, that's interesting.
I, I haven't seen thatas much at this point.
I think it depends on the firm again,because it's like a larger firm is definitely gonna lean more to that
(33:01):
person that has that background, I think,but some of my small firms, they, you
know, they're not up to speed thereyet, so they don't hold as much value.
But it will be interesting in thefuture, like recent college grads to take a look at what their background
looks like, as opposed to somebodywho's already manager somewhere.
Because I do think more and more peopleare, you know, creating awareness around that's where things are headed.
(33:26):
So I might as well minor in it or,you know, major in it or whatever.
So,
yep.
And get a little bit of experience there.
Are you seeing at all from a technologystandpoint or even from an AI standpoint, are you seeing candidates want to drill
more down more into the tech stackor the adoption of tech within some
(33:48):
of the firms that you're talking to,especially if it is a non top-100 firm?
Um, not so much yet.
I don't think.
I mean, I have some candidates thatmaybe they're at a big four and they want to get out of the big four.
But then like I had one guythat I worked with that he was big for wanting to get out.
(34:10):
But then they kind of waived a job thathad a huge technology piece to it, to kind of get them away from the compliance side.
And he did take that.
So, That was kind of interesting tosee, but I've seen it really just on a small scale at this point.
So, I think, again, it's somethingthat's going to come up more and
more, but right now it hasn't beena huge thing that I've come across.
(34:33):
Got it.
One of the last questions I wantto ask you, which is, I always think is an interesting question.
It's been posed at me a couple of timeson a couple of podcasts that I was on.
And so I thought for this seriesthat, that we're doing, talking
to recruiters like you and I that,that specialize in this space.
If you were speaking to firm ownerstoday, and the question was, in this case, is, Hey, what can I do to make
(34:58):
my firm and my people bulletproofagainst calls from people like you?
What
a question, John.
What
would you say to those firm owners?
Hey, let me tell you the two tothree things to do, and I promise you when I call your people, when
I message your people, they'reprobably not going to talk to me.
(35:20):
That's a hard one becauseI'm very convincing, John.
So I like to think thateverybody will respond.
Um, honestly, the biggest thing thatwe consistently hear from candidates.
Is that they're looking for a betterwork life balance, they're looking for work that aligns with their goals
(35:45):
and their interests, and they arelooking for transparency and autonomy.
So those are really the big drivers.
And of course, public accountinghours are public accounting hours,
but I do find when people arefinding their work fulfilling.
And, you know, aligningwith what they like to do.
(36:08):
They don't complain as muchas the, about the hours.
And if they have that transparency,Hey, you hit these metrics, you get to this place, we will promote you.
And then they follow through with that.
People are happy.
So I think those are the biggestthings is transparency, autonomy, which under autonomy is, is kind
(36:32):
of flexibility and that flexiblework arrangement we talked about.
And then I think, again, likealways the big thing is the hours, but when you really peel it back.
The hours don't seem to be the maindriver as opposed to the other two.
Got it.
I would tend to agree with you Ifthere are possible firm owners leaders Candidates that are thinking about
(36:53):
possibly making a career change Out ofthe firm that they're with and they're open to staying in public accounting or
they're even considering a move out ofpublic accounting, but they just want to
Bounce some thoughts off somebody wantingmore information in the marketplace.
What's the best way forpeople to get ahold of you?
What's the best way forpeople to connect with you?
Absolutely.
(37:14):
Well, very active on LinkedIn.
So you can easily find my pageon LinkedIn, Carrie Billington.
You know, emails always, of course,a good way to reach me as well.
kebillin@spartanplacements.com.
We also, you know, have ourwebsite, of course, that.
Has a lot of job openings, but yeah, Imean linkedin is usually the best way
(37:38):
to get a quickest response And I lookforward to connecting with your network
Perfect.
I'll make sure that we have yourwebsite your email address and a link to You directly on linkedin in
the show notes down below So I wantto again for spending some time and Talking a little bit about, about what
you're seeing from your perspectivein the public accounting space.
(38:00):
And it sounds like you're seeing a lotof the same things that are congruent with what we're seeing as well.
Absolutely.
Thanks again, John.
And it was amazingspeaking with you today.
Hey, thank you.
I appreciate it.
And for those of you that chose tospend some of your day with us today, I want to thank you for doing that.
If you like what you've heard, leavesome comments down below and don't
(38:20):
forget, subscribe to the podcaston the platform of your choice.
So that you won't miss any of thefuture guests that we have coming up.
Not only talking about this particulartopic over the next three or four episodes, but also some of the firm
leaders, industry insiders that we'regoing to be talking to about what life in this CPA world looks like until next time.
(38:42):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Be sure to subscribe on your favoritepodcasting app, leave a five star
rating, and visit our website for linksand show notes at CPALifePodcast.com.
We'll see you next time on CPA Life!
ProfessionalProductions.net
Thanks for tuning in to CPA Life, wherewe talk culture and growth with folks that are going against the grain in an industry
that has been stuck with a we've alwaysdone it that way mindset for far too long.
Join host John Randolph and learnhow a sustainable, family friendly
career in public accounting doesn'thave to be the exception to the rule.
(00:24):
Welcome to CPA Life.
Hey folks, welcome back to another episodeof CPA Life, the podcast that Shines a bright light on what some of today's
people centric firms and firm leaders aredoing in the marketplace today to build amazing CPA firms, advisory firms that
(00:46):
allow professionals to build great careerswithout really having to choose between.
A great career and a greatlife outside of the office.
We work on highlighting firms thatare really passionate about showing people that you don't have to sacrifice
your life or your family at thealtar of your job to build a career.
In public accounting.
And today we're going to be starting aseries that we're going to focus on for the next few weeks, where we're going
(01:12):
to spend some time talking to recruitersand talent acquisition professionals in the marketplace who spend their
time working in the public accountingsector, providing services to public accounting, CPA firms, advisory firms.
And today we're going to hang outa little bit with Kerry Billington, who is the managing partner.
With Spartan Placements, a specialtysearch firm based in Akron, Ohio.
(01:35):
Carrie focuses her time with herteam on partnering with mid sized firms in the East coast area.
Carrie, thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, John, thanks for having me.
I'm really excited to talk to you todaybecause I love discussing my journey.
I mean, it's not, you know, the mosttraditional path into recruiting, but it's one I definitely wouldn't change.
(01:55):
So, and with that, I also lovetalking about public accounting.
It's definitely a specialized space, andI definitely feel like I found my niche.
You know, you mentioned a nontraditional path into recruiting.
Yes.
I don't know if there's atraditional path into recruiting.
I think there's probably a little bitmore of a traditional path now, but, you know, I said for years, and I still say
(02:19):
today when I talk to people about, Youknow, working in our business, I don't know of anybody that's ever gotten into
this business with the intent of, hey,I'm going to grow up and I'm going to be
a recruiter in the third party recruitingspace or talent acquisition space.
Yeah, it kind of finds you, doesn't it?
It really kind of does.
(02:40):
So one of the things that we typicallydo it at this point in the show is give folks a little bit of a
glimpse of who you are and how you'vegotten to this point in your career.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour life and how you've gotten to be at Spartan Placements.
Sure, absolutely.
So, I guess I'll just start bysaying I started my career out as a police dispatcher, actually.
(03:04):
And
then once we had our two daughters,Juliana and Emerson, I was a stay at home mom for a little while.
And let me tell you, thatis definitely the hardest.
And most rewarding job there is out there.
You know, I definitely love beingpresent for my family, but also
miss working towards my professionalgoals and have always been motivated.
(03:28):
So I knew I wanted something with, youknow, the flexibility that would allow
me to still be there for the girls,but also build something of my own.
So when I was trying to figureout, you know, what that would be.
You know, I looked at numerous differentthings, but my husband actually has been in recruiting for years.
(03:49):
So he's in the healthcare stackingindustry and I watched him build his
career really from the ground up andit sparked my interest in the industry.
Just, you know, the ability toconnect with people and match them
with the right opportunities to watchbusinesses grow and build relationships.
(04:09):
That's always been somethingthat's really excited me.
So that's when I decided tostart Spartan Placements.
You know, I wanted to create opportunitiesfor others and build something meaningful for myself at the same time.
So, you know, when we first started out,we were trying to figure out who we were.
We were operating in, you know, a coupledifferent industries all over the place.
(04:32):
And then once I found public accounting,I was, I was like, this is it.
This is for me.
So
and that's kind of different becauseit's typically a space in the accounting finance world Speaking from experience.
It's typically a place if you I thinkif you were to pack a hundred Accounting finance recruiters from all over the
(04:53):
country into a room and say hey showof hands How many of you guys love working in the public accounting space
and providing support from a recruitingand talent acquisition perspective to the public accounting space?
If you're lucky, I think you might have10 percent of the room raise their hand.
And that's it.
(05:14):
Well, that's kind of part of it.
I mean, I think there's a needfor people that understand it and they're passionate about it.
It's such a specialized space with somany different nuances to it that, you know, if you really don't speak the
language and if you don't understandit, you're going to have a hard time figuring out the right match.
Absolutely.
And it's something I thinkthat a lot of people dabble in.
(05:35):
It's something that a lot of people justdip their toe in every now and then.
And that may work for somepeople in their business model.
It may work if they're supporting,in my opinion, larger firms with, you know, needs that, yes, they're
dire needs and a very large firm, butthe machine's going to keep going.
If those holes don't get filled at abig four firm or a top 50 firm, the machine is going to continue to go.
(06:01):
But when you're talking about midsized firms like you work with, small to mid sized firms like I work
with, that one hire is, it could be acritical role that's a linchpin role to keeping the business moving forward.
Yep.
It's a very different dynamic.
Yeah, and they can'tafford to make mistakes.
No,
oftentimes
not at all.
(06:22):
So, so you've been doing recruiting in thepublic accounting space for a little bit.
Tell me a little bit about kindof the focus that you guys have.
Is there a specific firm size thatyou feel like you bring the most
value to and where you guys havehad the most success partnering?
with organizations.
Yeah, so we've been specializedin working with CPA firms for four and a half years or so now.
(06:46):
Really, my target partner is between,let's say, 25 person firm would be like the smallest firm that I
work with, and then I do work withsome firms, you know, 5, 000 plus.
So, you know, it's broad in termsof what size firm, it's more about
the partnership I can create and thecommunication through the process.
(07:09):
So, you know, we're not looking towork with every firm that has a need
because let's be honest, every firm doeshave a need at some point or another.
So, you know, we are reallylooking for those true partners.
And, you know, I get a sense of that inconversation, just talking to, you know, at a smaller firm, a lot of times it's
partners that I begin the conversationswith, and then the larger firms, it comes down to that talent acquisition team and
(07:34):
them looking for a true extension, truepartnership of what they do internally.
So it depends on the firm and dependson just what they're looking for and their growth goals as well.
Location wise, it's definitely theEast Coast, like you mentioned.
I'm in Ohio, so naturally, largepool in Ohio, but from there, like
(07:57):
Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey,Florida, the Carolinas, Chicago.
Those are really our biggest markets,I would say, but just as my team continues to grow, I think our footprint.
Will grow as well.
So one of the, one of the questionsthat I wanted to ask you is, are there things that you're seeing consistent
(08:19):
across the firms that you workwith that winning teams and winning leaders are doing as good or better?
Then their competition.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that there's a lotof little things that can set
firms apart and it really startsfrom that initial engagement.
(08:41):
So, you know, obviously having agood sense of the market and what's going out in the market, having a.
Good partnership or a good recruitingfoundation, I think is important,
you know, for me specifically andthe partners that I work with.
And there's one that comes to mind that,you know, it's definitely one of my top partners that has it really figured out.
(09:04):
So.
You know, it starts with us havinga seamless relationship and them knowing that the candidates we present
are well vetted, and in turn, theymove pretty quickly when they see, you know, a resume that they'd like.
And then from there, you know, theinternal team does a fantastic job
of, you know, keeping consistent withwhat we're telling candidates as well.
(09:28):
So, you know, conveying the firm's valueand Just talking about the opportunity and just different nuances about
the position and the specific teamsthat they're going to be working on.
So that consistent message,I think, is really important.
And then they have athoughtful interview process.
I feel like so many people miss this step,but it is so, so important to, you know, candidates experience going through the
(09:55):
interview process when they're likelyinterviewing with multiple other firms.
So just being strategic aboutwho meets with the candidate.
Say they're interviewing someonecoming from big four, then, you know, they likely have somebody
internally that's been at big fourand they bring them into the interview process to give their perspective.
(10:16):
I think that goes a long way withcandidates and really helps like create a common ground there.
And then, of course, competitiveoffers, you know, the offer typically with this firm that I mentioned is.
Consistent with what I've discussed withthem up front, usually no surprises there.
(10:37):
And another thing that they do that Ihave seen like nine times out of 10,
they, they end up with the candidate kindof because this also is a sign on bonus.
So sign on bonuses.
Go a long way.
I usually never asked for them.
Sometimes I do.
But with this specific firm, I neverask and they always put one on there.
(10:59):
I think it makes the candidate feel valuedand just, you know, it definitely gives them a leg up in the process for sure.
And I think with retaining is just havingretention strategies that really work.
You know what I mean?
This is onboarding process.
And making sure that streamlined socialevents, flexible schedules, and really providing that career growth opportunity.
(11:25):
When you talk about culture andyou talk about bringing people on board, one of the things that
comes to mind is the whole remotehybrid, a hundred percent in office.
dynamic that it's still a topic ofdiscussion with a lot of firms, the firms that you partner with, the
firms that you're working with, whatare you seeing that they're doing and what are you seeing that works?
(11:50):
And when I say works, let me qualify thatwhen it comes to selling an opportunity to candidates from your perspective,
what
works and what's an uphill battlefor you when it comes to geography.
Okay.
Yeah, you know, there's definitelybeen that noticeable push for bringing employees back into the office.
I see it more in specific marketsjust because, you know, it's
(12:16):
just naturally happening andhappening more in other markets.
But from what I've seen, thefirms that remain open to.
Remote or flexible hybrid schedulesconsistently attract the best talent.
I mean, the reality ispeople want autonomy.
They want the option to go into theoffice oftentimes, but they don't want to mandate to go into the office.
(12:40):
So, you know, it's having that officewithin arm's reach for collaboration and focus days, but they don't
want a rigid schedule that dictateswhen they go into the office.
Yeah, the firms that recognize and embracethe flexibility have the clear advantage.
I mean, they just do.
(13:01):
I've had firms that say, Hey, we're goingright back into the office and it's, you know, it's kind of pushed back on them.
They've lost a lot of talent.
It's just created a ripple effectthat hasn't been effective.
So it's truly Having an approachthat isn't a one size fits all and kind of trying to make it work.
(13:24):
So one of the stats that we'lltalk to clients about, and I don't
know if this is similar to what youguys have seen or completely off.
And maybe it's just something that we'reexperiencing in the size of firms that we talk to, but we track a bunch of data.
We look at a lot of differentnumbers and over the last two years, if it's a fully remote role.
(13:46):
Like we don't even have an officeor we don't care if people are here.
It's fully remote work from anywhere.
We're in, you know, we're in Akron, Ohio,but you can be in Seattle, Washington.
We do not care.
Our time to fill on roles like that isusually anywhere from about 30 to 45 days.
Oh yeah.
(14:06):
Roles that are hybrid in nature,meaning we have a geographic location and you need to be in the office.
Maybe there's not a, you know, dictatorialmindset of it's got to be on these
days, but you've got to be in theoffice one day a week, two days a week.
We want you, you know, within a certaingeography of the office kind of thing.
What we've typically seen istime to fill is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 140, 150 days.
(14:34):
And if it is 100%.
In office, like we're here and weexpect everybody else to be here.
Our time to fill on those roles,and we haven't worked many of them, is usually about 6 to 12 months.
I don't know if you guys are seeing thattype of time frames with the searches that you're working on, or what are you seeing?
(14:55):
Yeah, I would say that's,you know, pretty consistent.
I have a handful of clients thatare five days a week in the office.
So for us to take on that search,it has to be a market that we were fully entrenched into.
We have deep Canada pools and haveworked that market already because.
It's harder to find becauselet's be honest, you're right.
(15:17):
It's a slim number of peoplethat actually want to be in five days a week with no flexibility.
So you start out with a batchof candidates who are interested in the potential position.
And then it's, it shrinks downto who's actually qualified for the nuances of the position.
And then it shrinks down to the peoplethat would even consider hybrid.
(15:39):
And then from there to talk aboutsomebody who wants to come in five days a week, no exceptions, you've got maybe.
One candidate, you know, aneedle in the haystack that.
Is gonna work and be within thesalary range that you're expecting.
So Yeah, I mean that's pretty consistent.
I would say with what we see too.
Yep.
It's just a it's one of those things.
(15:59):
I think that firms that are Doingthings right and doing things well back to your point I think that those
farm leaders realize that the 1980s,1990s, 2000, 2010 mindset of one size fits all is no longer something you
can buy into if you want to be a placethat people long to be a part of.
(16:24):
And it sounds like that's kindof what you're experiencing and what you're seeing.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously, you know,COVID hit right and firms had to figure out how to work remotely.
But now people have figured it out.
And those true professionals thatwant to work are gonna sometimes work even harder in a remote environment.
(16:45):
I know for me, times and days get blurredworking remote, you know, it doesn't, it's not like I'm sitting at a desk in an
office from nine to five, a lot of timesI'm working at weird hours, which yeah.
Public accountants have to do as well.
So, you know, I think it opens the doorfor harder working individuals, actually not being tied to the desk chair.
(17:07):
One of the other big dynamics going onin the public accounting space right now is private equity coming into the space,
investing in firms, impacting firms,have you seen that impact any of the clients that you've been working with?
Have you seen that impact?
You know, candidates that are now inyour database or have raised their
(17:27):
hand post a PE infusion into their firmto say, Hey, I may want to talk now.
What have, what have you seen?
With that entire phenomenontaking place over the last 12 to 24 months in the space.
Yeah, absolutely.
Gosh, I mean, I think the CPAspace in general it's in the four
plus years that we've been doingthis We've seen so many changes.
(17:51):
I feel like every Month or so.
There's a new challenge that we'retaking on, you know from the great resignation to aggressive counter offers
and the trend of everybody wanting tomove into industry and then of course
And how that's come to the table andreally thrown everything upside down.
You know, it's the wild west for sure,but I feel like we kind of thrive in that ever changing landscape.
(18:18):
The PE money.
I mean, I work with actually ahandful of firms that have that, and I've seen a select number of
firms that, you know, with that PEbacking, it's actually been a real.
Positive thing.
I've seen some firms that, you know,they've made strategic changes due to
that, and they're able to grow in a,you know, entrepreneurial smart way.
(18:45):
But I've also worked with somefirms where I've seen the reverse.
I've seen a lot of people leave.
I've seen people complain about barsconstantly changing to get that next promotion and taking away the family feel.
So it's a mixed bag.
I think it goes back to leadership.
It goes back to communication andtransparency, but yeah, I mean, it's
(19:08):
definitely throwing public accountingupside down, I would say that.
One of the things I'll, I compare alot of things that we're dealing with in our industry too, is the marriage
mentoring and marriage coaching that mywife and I do outside of this business.
And, you know, one of the things thatwe always talk to couples about is don't ever use the words always or never.
Yeah, you know, you always do thisor you never do that kind of thing.
(19:31):
And I think it's important that when itcomes to private equity, using the words always and never are not good either.
There's going to be somegood that comes out of that.
We can't argue that we can't saythat that's not going to happen,
but there's going to be some badthat comes out of that as well.
From the experience that you've seen,you know, you've mentioned that you
have a couple of firms that you'veworked with that have taken on PE money.
(19:54):
One of the things that is the sell,if you will, to any industry, not only public accounting, but any
professional services space, anymanufacturing space, any, any space that is taking on private equity money.
One of the cells is we're going tohave the money to go out and hire the people and grow the firm the way
(20:14):
that we want to grow it, need to growit, have to grow it kind of thing.
Have you seen that infusion of privateequity money affect the hiring?
Or hiring plans positively of a firmthat previously either was slow growth or no growth that you're engaged with.
(20:35):
You know, it's, it'svaries by firm to firm.
So I have one firm that.
It honestly kind of goes back towhat I'm seeing with firms that are open to opportunistic hiring
because I think that is a big pieceof winning, you know, in the talent shortage game with public accounting.
(20:55):
So I think that I've seen firmsbacked by PE that are still open to opportunistic hiring.
And because of that PE money, maybe,you know, they're able to take on that talent, you know, without a true need.
But I've seen other firmsthat are the absolute reverse.
Once they took on that PE money,PE comes in and kind of controls
(21:19):
who they're hiring, who they'repromoting, what they're paying.
And I've also seen somelayoffs with that as well.
So again, it's a mixed bag and I thinkthat firm to firm, it can vary depending
on, you know, how that PE comes inand how much, how hands on they are.
Sorry, if that's kind of like aanswer that doesn't give you direct, because I'm, I'm definitely seeing
(21:43):
both sides of the coin and canauthentically say I've seen both.
Well, and, and I think that that's apart of the dynamic of the space is.
There's going to be some, like I knowof at least a couple of firms that have taken on private equity money
that leadership has maintained a verystrong grip on the control of the firm.
(22:03):
And I'm talking legacy leadership.
And because of that, the firm continuesto prosper just like they were before, but they're now doing it at a little
bit of a faster pace and a little bitof a better pace because they have the resources to be able to do that.
I've also seen private equitycome into a couple of firms.
Where there was a big promise of thepot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
(22:26):
And before we even started followingthe rainbow to the pot of gold,
the discussion was had that,Hey, our wagon is way too heavy.
We need to get some people off thewagon so that we can make the trip to the pot of gold a little bit faster.
And there were cuts that were made that.
They never saw it coming.
So, you know, again, I don't thinkit's a always or never situation.
(22:49):
I think that people just have tobe, people have to be ready to be
flexible when they're sitting in afirm where private equity is coming in.
They need to make sure that theyunderstand what their options are.
Would you say that that's probably agood way to put it for the people on the inside that aren't at the partner level?
Yeah, I think it's transparency andjust kind of I would be concerned if there's no chatter about how things
(23:14):
are going to go once PE comes in,so it's going to be interesting.
I feel like that is sucha topic in this space.
It's every other day.
I open up my LinkedIn andthere's an announcement of an acquisition or something like that.
There's an announcement of, youknow, a new firm with PE money.
So, that's a dynamic that everybodyhas to pay attention to right now.
One of, one of the things I wantedto ask you about is candidate flow in the marketplace today.
(23:41):
The candidate pipeline in publicaccounting has been, as long as I've been doing this, a very tight
pipeline, regardless of, regardlessof how many people were in the pipeline 30 years ago versus today.
The pipeline has always been A verythin pipeline because you know people go into public accounting and then
(24:02):
there's that two to five year windowthat they're like, I got my experience.
I'm out now.
You throw into that.
You still got that dynamic, but now youthrow into that the entire 150 hour thing.
You've got all kinds of issues withbeing able to qualify for the test, sit
for the test, pass the test, get yourgrades done in a certain period of time.
I know of a handful of peoplethat are really pressing in that window to get their parts passed.
(24:24):
There's just a lot of thingsgoing on in the space right now.
Okay.
Couple that with all the dynamics thatare occurring in the accounting profession as a whole when it comes to tax laws
when it comes to accounting regulationsShortage of people so companies are hiring more all of those dynamics one
of the things that we're hearing fromclients and new clients is Hey, man, I
(24:48):
was doing this on my own two years ago,and it was kind of working but today
Yeah,
man, I Where'd all the people go?
Where'd all the people go, number one?
And number two, can youfind people where I can't?
Because I'm DIYing it, throwing ads allover the place and getting Firestone tire changers answering my ads.
(25:09):
Can you help me?
How do you help me?
So what do you say to firms thatyou talk to where that's the case?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the talent shortageis real and very competitive.
I mean, that's why I exist.
That's why you exist.
You know what I mean?
It's truly.
You have to be in front ofthe market every single day.
(25:30):
That's why I think, you know,opportunistic hiring is huge.
If you're truly committed togrowing your team in a thoughtful
way, you know, partnering ofcourse, with a recruiter that.
Is out in the industry every day and,you know, talking to people, I mean, I run my business really relationship
(25:51):
based so candidates that I'm talkingto that are open to talking to me.
Now, a lot of times they'resaying, Hey, right now is not the best time for me to make a move.
We're going into busy season or whateverthe case or hey, I'm getting married.
I'm ideally not looking tomake a move for 6 months.
Right.
So for firm leaders, I think it'sreally important that they're also doing the same, they're out in the
(26:15):
markets, they're talking to people inthe industry, seniors, or, you know,
staff at other firms and networking,because when that time comes.
That candidates going to make a movebuilding that relationship and having that communication going ensures that
they're going to be looking at youwhen they're looking to make a move.
(26:37):
So, you know, for us andwhat we bring to the table.
I think that.
You know, there's a lot of firms toothat have internal talent acquisition.
There's, you know, a lot of the firmsthat I work with, they already have people that work internally, but there's still
value in working with somebody that'sa recruiter on the outside because, you
(26:58):
know, we give an unbiased opinion about,you know, all of the different firms.
And, you know, we know salaries.
Statistics for multiplefirms, multiple markets.
So just kind of giving that candidatethat information is always helpful to, you know, we really know what's
happening behind the scenes, firm tofirm, because of all the conversations
(27:21):
we're having every single weekwith multiple different candidates.
So giving that context is super helpful.
And then we always havemore than one opportunity.
So we're really ensuring that candidatesare finding their best fit and the reason why they're looking to make a move.
So, you know, partnering with a recruiterand as a partner at a firm, being out in the market, having conversations
(27:48):
with people at different levels,those are things that people can do to kind of combat that talent shortage.
You know, and you bring up a greatpoint being proactive in that process, because if you're doing your job well.
And I know that you do, becausewe've talked a lot about this.
You're in front of people consistently,not just because they fit the job
(28:10):
you have today, but because they fitinto the wheelhouse of what you work.
And there may be some value that you couldbring to them, or they could bring to you two weeks, two months, two years from now.
The value in that, I think also to someof your clients and some of the firms that
you work with and that I work with, iswe don't deal with a lot of larger firms.
But we do have a couple of firms that areclients of ours that are larger that, you
(28:33):
know, would probably fit into the moldof what your stereotypical client is.
And it's always interesting with thosefirms that reach out to us and say, Hey, we're looking to fill this type of a role.
And we know of five people, threepeople, four people down the road at a couple of other firms.
(28:56):
That we'd love to talk tobut we can't approach them.
Can you do that for us?
Absolutely, we can.
Yeah I've definitely seen that too.
I mean there's firms thatare aligned with other firms.
There's You know just in the industryPeople don't like that approach.
(29:19):
Right.
Of course.
So yeah, I mean, that's another reasonto work with a recruiter who knows the market and understands the nuances
of your client base and who else inthe market has that same experience.
Yeah, there's a lot of value to talkingto somebody that is constantly having a
pulse on the marketplace and understandingwhat is going on in the marketplace.
(29:44):
It's, it's the difference of, you know,Hey, you need to go to the hospital.
You need to get taken care of.
And you have a choice.
You can go to the hospital wherethey're going to hook you up to
a monitor and someone's goingto watch that monitor 24 seven.
They're going to know exactly what's goingon with you, or we're going to take you to a hospital where when they have time.
Someone's going to come by yourroom and ask you how you're feeling.
(30:05):
Maybe slap a blood pressure cuffon you to see how things are going,
but they're not going to constantlybe in touch with who you are.
So until you have a heart attackin your bed, we may not ever know that there's an issue there.
So, like you said, Having thatrelationship with somebody that's got
a pulse on the marketplace constantly,there's immense value in doing that.
What are some other trends that you'reseeing going on in the industry, positively or negatively, that you're
(30:31):
seeing that are impacting either peopleor the firms that you're partnering with?
I mean, AI is a huge one.
It's definitely You know, as we look intothe future, it's one of the most exciting,
but yet disruptive forces in recruitingtalent acquisition and many other facets.
Of the world is AI disrupting.
(30:53):
So it's changing personally howrecruiters and internal recruiters
find candidates, evaluatecandidates and connect with talent.
It's really trying to find thatblend of how you use it, but not removing the human element to it.
AI is good for repetitive tasks, but.
(31:15):
You know, personally, I think thehuman element will always remain at the heart of the higher it just is because
recruiting isn't just about matchinga set of skills to a job description.
It's about finding the right personto thrive in a company's culture, contribute to the firm's longterm success.
And align with its values.
(31:35):
So, I think AI is a big one to payattention to as well in this world.
You know, it's interesting you mentionedthat one of the things that we've seen on some of the lower level hires in working
with some of the clients that we've workedwith is two evenly matched candidates.
You know, let's just say theyboth have one year, two years at
(31:57):
a big four firm or a top hundrednational firm as a tax associate.
But this one candidate has taken kindof a stereotypical track from accounting into public accounting, big four CPA firm.
They've got a decent background with ITbecause, you know, that's, they, they have to in the world that we live in today.
But then you've got this otherperson over here that maybe they have a minor in data analytics.
(32:19):
Maybe they have a master'sin data analytics.
Whatever the case may be, they are,Like a rock star when it comes to data analytics, AI, and technology, and we've
seen firms lean towards that person andthose people 100 percent of the time versus the person that's just a, and I
(32:40):
don't want to say a standard, but a twoyear tax person that is just good at tax.
Yeah, that's interesting.
I, I haven't seen thatas much at this point.
I think it depends on the firm again,because it's like a larger firm is definitely gonna lean more to that
(33:01):
person that has that background, I think,but some of my small firms, they, you
know, they're not up to speed thereyet, so they don't hold as much value.
But it will be interesting in thefuture, like recent college grads to take a look at what their background
looks like, as opposed to somebodywho's already manager somewhere.
Because I do think more and more peopleare, you know, creating awareness around that's where things are headed.
(33:26):
So I might as well minor in it or,you know, major in it or whatever.
So,
yep.
And get a little bit of experience there.
Are you seeing at all from a technologystandpoint or even from an AI standpoint, are you seeing candidates want to drill
more down more into the tech stackor the adoption of tech within some
(33:48):
of the firms that you're talking to,especially if it is a non top-100 firm?
Um, not so much yet.
I don't think.
I mean, I have some candidates thatmaybe they're at a big four and they want to get out of the big four.
But then like I had one guythat I worked with that he was big for wanting to get out.
(34:10):
But then they kind of waived a job thathad a huge technology piece to it, to kind of get them away from the compliance side.
And he did take that.
So, That was kind of interesting tosee, but I've seen it really just on a small scale at this point.
So, I think, again, it's somethingthat's going to come up more and
more, but right now it hasn't beena huge thing that I've come across.
(34:33):
Got it.
One of the last questions I wantto ask you, which is, I always think is an interesting question.
It's been posed at me a couple of timeson a couple of podcasts that I was on.
And so I thought for this seriesthat, that we're doing, talking
to recruiters like you and I that,that specialize in this space.
If you were speaking to firm ownerstoday, and the question was, in this case, is, Hey, what can I do to make
(34:58):
my firm and my people bulletproofagainst calls from people like you?
What
a question, John.
What
would you say to those firm owners?
Hey, let me tell you the two tothree things to do, and I promise you when I call your people, when
I message your people, they'reprobably not going to talk to me.
(35:20):
That's a hard one becauseI'm very convincing, John.
So I like to think thateverybody will respond.
Um, honestly, the biggest thing thatwe consistently hear from candidates.
Is that they're looking for a betterwork life balance, they're looking for work that aligns with their goals
(35:45):
and their interests, and they arelooking for transparency and autonomy.
So those are really the big drivers.
And of course, public accountinghours are public accounting hours,
but I do find when people arefinding their work fulfilling.
And, you know, aligningwith what they like to do.
(36:08):
They don't complain as muchas the, about the hours.
And if they have that transparency,Hey, you hit these metrics, you get to this place, we will promote you.
And then they follow through with that.
People are happy.
So I think those are the biggestthings is transparency, autonomy, which under autonomy is, is kind
(36:32):
of flexibility and that flexiblework arrangement we talked about.
And then I think, again, likealways the big thing is the hours, but when you really peel it back.
The hours don't seem to be the maindriver as opposed to the other two.
Got it.
I would tend to agree with you Ifthere are possible firm owners leaders Candidates that are thinking about
(36:53):
possibly making a career change Out ofthe firm that they're with and they're open to staying in public accounting or
they're even considering a move out ofpublic accounting, but they just want to
Bounce some thoughts off somebody wantingmore information in the marketplace.
What's the best way forpeople to get ahold of you?
What's the best way forpeople to connect with you?
Absolutely.
(37:14):
Well, very active on LinkedIn.
So you can easily find my pageon LinkedIn, Carrie Billington.
You know, emails always, of course,a good way to reach me as well.
kebillin@spartanplacements.com.
We also, you know, have ourwebsite, of course, that.
Has a lot of job openings, but yeah, Imean linkedin is usually the best way
(37:38):
to get a quickest response And I lookforward to connecting with your network
Perfect.
I'll make sure that we have yourwebsite your email address and a link to You directly on linkedin in
the show notes down below So I wantto again for spending some time and Talking a little bit about, about what
you're seeing from your perspectivein the public accounting space.
(38:00):
And it sounds like you're seeing a lotof the same things that are congruent with what we're seeing as well.
Absolutely.
Thanks again, John.
And it was amazingspeaking with you today.
Hey, thank you.
I appreciate it.
And for those of you that chose tospend some of your day with us today, I want to thank you for doing that.
If you like what you've heard, leavesome comments down below and don't
(38:20):
forget, subscribe to the podcaston the platform of your choice.
So that you won't miss any of thefuture guests that we have coming up.
Not only talking about this particulartopic over the next three or four episodes, but also some of the firm
leaders, industry insiders that we'regoing to be talking to about what life in this CPA world looks like until next time.
(38:42):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Be sure to subscribe on your favoritepodcasting app, leave a five star
rating, and visit our website for linksand show notes at CPALifePodcast.com.
We'll see you next time on CPA Life!
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