February 20, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode, Ed talks with Jason Becker, CEO and founder of Golf Life Navigators, about emerging trends in private club membership and why clubs should prepare for higher-than-normal attrition rates. Jason shares insights from his company's extensive data collection and explains why the real estate market is a crucial indicator for private club membership trends.
Key Moments:
- Setting the Stage [00:00:00]: Ed introduces the current state of private clubs, noting that over half still maintain waitlists with an average of 70 people.
- Golf Life Navigators Overview [00:03:26]: Jason explains how his platform matches prospective members with clubs using a dating app-like algorithm to reduce attrition rates.
- Waitlist Dynamics [00:05:27]: Discussion of consumer attitudes toward waitlists, revealing that 70% of prospects don't want to wait more than six months for membership.
- Real Estate Connection [00:08:15]: Jason explains why the increasing inventory of golf community homes signals coming changes in club membership.
- Attrition Predictions [00:09:23]: Analysis of why attrition rates might exceed pre-pandemic levels, particularly due to delayed resignations from older members.
- Member Services Evolution [00:15:13]: Exploration of how clubs need to align service levels with increased initiation fees and focus on time-saving amenities.
- Demographic Shifts [00:16:52]: Discussion of how clubs must cater to multiple generations while building for the future.
- Real Estate Strategy [00:21:11]: Jason shares insights on community "capture rates" and how clubs can better control their real estate destiny.
- Sales Process Evolution [00:25:35]: Examination of why modern membership directors need proper CRM systems and marketing automation.
- Final Insights [00:29:21]: Jason emphasizes the importance of transparency in club planning and investment strategies.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You are listening to Crushing Club
Marketing, a podcast for progressive
club leaders ready to increase
their club's revenue.
Time for change begins
right now.
More than half of the private clubs
in the country still have a waitlist
today, and there seems to be no end
in sight.
But is that accurate?
(00:20):
Jason Becker, CEO and founder
of Golf Life Navigators, joins me in
this episode and shares the trends
he's seen for some time now.
His data points to the industry's
return to a pre-pandemic normal
and says it'll be here sooner than
expected.
He believes the evolving real estate
market is an important lead
indicator of attrition rates for
(00:41):
private clubs.
Well, if you choose to believe that
your current waitlist is the quote
unquote new normal and that it'll
always be this good,
you can either bury your head in the
sand and ignore this episode, or
you can take Jason Becker's insights
and start to modify your approach
(01:02):
to new member acquisition and
retention, for that matter.
Well, if you're not familiar with
Golf Life navigators, it is
a online resource that helps people
find golf communities or a golf
community that is right for them.
Jason says it's kind of like a
dating app for people who are
looking for a place to live and play
golf. So you kind of get the
(01:22):
idea. You put in information
that will spit out results
that are best suited for your
interests.
And through that intake
process.
Golf Life Navigator collects a
tremendous amount of information
that provides really, really
valuable insight into industry
trends.
(01:43):
But in this episode, we really dive
into attrition rates.
As I mentioned, Jason's
data is showing
that clubs are soon going to
see even higher
attrition rates than what they
saw before the pandemic.
A lot of people in the industry
are thought leaders in the industry
(02:04):
recognized that
there's going to be a return to
the pre-pandemic numbers.
But Jason's number
is saying that we're going to see
that sooner than expected.
So for forward thinking
club leaders, you're
going to want to listen to this
conversation and maybe even start
to address the gaps that you
(02:26):
may have in your new member
recruitment process
and also how you're engaging your
current members.
So Jason and I connected at the
2025 CMAA World
Conference in Tampa in
February, and we just
pulled up a couple of chairs and sat
down in the StoryTeller booth and
we dove into this conversation.
(02:47):
Jason, thanks so much for joining us
today.
Happy to be here, Ed.
Great. So I think the last time
we talked was right
during the pandemic it was right or
right after in the wait lists,
clubs was really building up.
Right, right. Yeah.
We were seeing a massive, massive
run on golf for sure.
And you and I were talking about the
(03:09):
waitlist growing at clubs and the
consumer
challenges of trying to find a club
that had availability.
Right, for sure.
So for people who aren't
familiar with Golf Life Navigators,
how about, you know, the high level,
what you do and and also just
the connection to the data that
you're able to capture as well?
Yeah. Yeah. So basically, Ed, we
just we noticed that there's a
(03:30):
huge void in the marketplace for
anybody looking for a private club
on the consumer side.
But from the club side, we all
are very sensitive to attrition
rates and unhappy members.
And so in 2015, I was
studying or reading a white paper
actually on divorce rates in the
United States, and the average
divorce rate was 54%.
(03:50):
You know, people are getting
divorces.
However, those that are meeting on
matchmaking algorithms, the average
divorce rate was 7%
and the light bulb went off and
it was like, okay, I wonder if we
could create an environment where
User A would be the club.
They put in everything they have to
offer amenity wise and price
point, and then User B is a consumer
and they put in everything that
they're looking for and then instant
(04:11):
matches can occur.
And so the consumer could then
filter search 158 clubs in
southwest Florida.
And for the club industry,
you're getting the right member for
the club as they're checking all
the boxes of what you have to offer.
So happier members, attrition
rates go down.
And yeah, 55,000
people have used it.
(04:31):
Wow. So that's
that's the story behind the story.
But in, along the way, you've gained
so much information
about behaviors and preferences
that I know a lot of people
would would kill to have that
information.
But so with that as a backdrop,
let's just jump in to what you know,
what the topic is for today, is
really attrition.
(04:54):
And maybe if we
can just, again, a little bit more
context...
In the pandemic, after the pandemic,
this huge boom and
in wait lists and people that are
interested in joining private clubs.
Yes.
Right. So
and all along you were saying people
are not...
I remember several years ago when we
talked about this and people
(05:16):
really don't want to wait in
waitlists, or be on a waitlist.
So how is that changed?
And what does that dynamic look like
today? Because 54%
of clubs is what club benchmarks
are waitlist.
Yeah. Yeah. And the average waitlist
number is 70 people on a list.
Which is huge.
And that varies, you know, market to
market and markets like Naples, it
can be 3 to 4 years before you
(05:37):
get playing privileges,
right? So so yeah, the
waitlist issue from the consumer
stan- side. So we start serving them
right when Covid was at full bore
and there was a run on golf and
70% of them were coming back saying
they did not want to be on a
waitlist more than six months
long.
You know, they're looking to buy
(05:57):
then. They had cash in hand and
ready to go.
So that became,
you know, a pickle for the consumer.
And what we notice was
they were kind of acquiescing
things that they were looking for
specifically in order to just to
find access to a club.
So might not have been the best
practice facility, but this one has
membership available ability.
So we're buying there or
(06:18):
moving to an entirely different
market altogether.
The survey data also told us that
80% of people did not want to put a
deposit down.
And of those that
were willing to put a deposit down
that budget ranged from anywhere
from 10 to $20,000
and that was it. Not any more thanthat.
I was going to say, how how is that
data different for golf communities
(06:40):
versus standalone like private
clubs?
It's the same.
The biggest difference with the
communities is the real estate
factor.
And 90% of people that use
our platform are combining in search
of club and home.
So that's the other layer
of the decision process.
During Covid, there was no golf
homes for sale.
And so even
(07:01):
more a reason for a consumer to look
at a different market all together.
Got it. So how so how would you
how is that landscape different
today?
You know, now 2025.
From the the the consumers
side of things, the demand is still
there. People are still,
you know, on the run looking for
clubs. I think there's more
intelligence out there that
(07:22):
consumers are aware that Naples,
Scottsdale, Palm Beach, you know
the big five, if you will, Palm
Springs are full.
And there's very few options.
So they are looking at other
markets. We're seeing it just in our
watching the leads come through
our system today.
But there's also this understanding
on the club side that waitlists
(07:43):
seem to be diluting quite quicker
than maybe clubs are thinking,
which we've- I've always been a
proponent, I know you are too, keep
the pipeline going like you keep,
keep building of
prospective members.
So being in
the real estate industry as well,
you know we're seeing a massive
increase in listings of all
the homes coming for sale.
(08:05):
And so my prediction, as we talked
about earlier, is that attrition
rates are going to be, if not back
to normal, maybe even higher,
which is 8 to 10% a year.
All right. So I think a lot of
people have thought and believed
that attrition rates would come back
the way they once were.
Yeah. Why more, though?
(08:25):
More? Because, and this is my
theory.
In 2020, the 82
year old they had planned on
resigning that year
didn't because Covid hit.
And why give up their golf home
and their club membership.
So you have all those people in 2020
and 21, even 22
(08:45):
that didn't resign because they
want to keep what they had.
Well, now that we're past it,
they're 85, 86 years old.
They are out.
And that's why you're seeing a
massive increase of golf homes
come for sale.
And
in in obviously, you know,
people on the resignation lists at
clubs. Now that's great
from a club from a capital
(09:06):
standpoint cause you got new members
coming in writing new checks.
But how many times a week
was the 86 year old playing golf?
Right. Once?
Now you know, you got a 55 year old
come in playing 3 or 4 days a week.
So clubs then have to deal with this
capacity capacity issue.
But that we've seen in the last year
as well.
Yeah. How that's interesting.
So you're attributing a lot of
(09:26):
that...
The attrition and
real estate
surplus to
some of that aging demographic.
Are there- what are the other
conditions that might be affecting
that, the surplus in the
marketplace?
Uh, people trying to cash
in. You know, the real estate market
was on fire for the last several
(09:48):
years. People are getting good
return on investments for their
golf homes. And we've passed that.
My wife's a real estate broker.
I see it every day.
The market has pricing has
come down a lot in these golf
communities because they're just
inflated with with more homes for
sale. Yeah. So I think that was a
big reason. And in the Sunbelt
markets, yeah, a lot of people that
we like to call them halfbacks, they
(10:10):
spent 15, 20 years in
Florida and are going to go up to
the Carolinas. So
yeah, a lot of- and I think the
other factor is too,
if you're 80 to 85 years
old, are you necessarily
in the same mental alignment with a
55 year old, what they want out of a
club? Right.
And the answer is probably no.
Yeah, that's the next part of this
(10:30):
that I think we want to get to as
well. But before we do that, I was
just going to ask you, is it
happening sooner than
what you might have expected a
couple of years ago or is it kind of
just doing what
it should do based upon.
You know?
Yeah, no, I think that it's crept up
on a lot of clubs.
We've seen a
(10:51):
massive amount of clubs come back
and engage with our platform just
because the wait lists
shrank pretty fast.
Or if.
If a club didn't have a deposit
to be on a wait lists.
And that consumer's got no reason to
call the club and say that they
bought in, you know, Wilmington,
North Carolina.
And so there's a little shock there
from the membership directors that
(11:11):
thought they had 100 on their list,
but there might only be 15.
Right. And so
not only with the wait- that
diluting, then you have an increase
attrition. It's kind of like the
perfect storm. So I've been on a
soapbox over the past
nine months just kind of warning
club officials that, hey, expect
this. You're seeing it in
the real estate market and that's a
direct attribute to
(11:32):
the golf membership buyers.
Yeah.
So so let's talk a little
bit about, and through the data
that you have and have acquired.
You know, the analogy I've
used in the past is start building
your ark now, you know.
But what are the things that
consumers today are looking for and
(11:54):
how how should clubs
maybe if they have an opportunity to
reevaluate how they're positioned?
What should they think about?
They need to be prepared to
address the financial
conditions of the club.
And, you know, there's always been a
portion of prospects that
would like to meet with the finance
(12:14):
chairman before they make the
decision to buy.
But from we've seen years past,
that's not been a motivating factor.
It's generally been, you know,
okay, is the golf course playable,
healthy?
What's the real estate like in the
community or around it and
what's the lifestyle like?
Now we're seeing people
that are really concerned with
(12:35):
is the club investing into the
amenities?
And if so, how is that looking?
If not, why?
And is- can I
expect an assessment down the road?
You know, all these questions that
most membership directors never got
asked before.
And I think a lot of it is because
people there's so much information
online now and
(12:56):
a lot of folks have friends that
live in golf communities or private
club members.
And probably over dinner, I've heard
them disgruntled about our getting
assessed again, Didn't see that one
coming.
And so they have these questions.
And because it is at the end of day
a financial investment.
Right. The...
This kind of fits in to, I've been
on this track recently, the last few
episodes around governance.
(13:17):
And in what you're saying,
I think it's just it's a more savvy
prospective member.
And let's face it, some of these
people may be members in another
club. Right? And they're going to
new- and they know how this stuff
works and all the traps, too.
So, yeah, much more savvy.
The the one
thing and I don't know how much you
can speak to this, but
(13:39):
how important do you think that is?
Like the governance and how the, the
club is structured?
Are there is the consumer that
savvy to understand like,
wow, this is kind of dysfunctional
how these guys are doing this or
they don't seem to have a plan for
how they're going to avoid future
assessments? I mean, how
how important is that kind of
information, do you think, for.
I it's tremendously important.
(13:59):
I, I every
prospect that I talk to personally
is looking at a community.
I tell them, go meet with the
finance chairman, the finance
chairmen love to talk to you because
they love talking about that kind of
stuff. And it's a great
education experience for you as a
consumer because now you can see how
private clubs operate and run in
the not for profit.
(14:19):
And this is where the dues money go.
But it's it's a great
experience. And to that, there's
going to be no surprises down the
road. You know, I sat with the
finance chairman and three years
later, we're going to vote to do a
capital improvement plan.
But I understand why we're doing
that because I remember that
meeting. So I
think clubs getting out in front of
it is actually probably better and
(14:41):
going back to happy members.
Yeah.
You know, there'll be no surprises
then.
Right, Right.
That's very interesting.
All right. So let's talk about other
things, because other things as far
as, you know, building the
ark or preparing.
In your, from your perspective
and what you see, what are the other
things that clubs can really
do to sort of get the house in order
(15:02):
to maybe, you know, handle?
I kind of think of this like you've
got a second chance now.
You've had a really good wave here.
What are you going to do this time
that's going to be differently to
ensure your success?
I think that the, there
will there's two layers of
it. The first layer is so many clubs
dramatically increase their
initiation fee and even
dues for that matter.
(15:23):
And so there has to be some sort of
alignment with quality and
levels of service that go with that.
So okay, the club
used to be 50,000 to get in and now
it's 150. Ed, what
are you doing different that's going
to warrant me writing another check
or for that large and
in, so that we're happy.
(15:45):
So I think that's first layer.
And then the second layer is just...
Clubs can build amenities all day
long, but I think the future
of the private club is going to be
service offerings, whether it be
day care, detailing
of cars, dry cleaning and a lot of
cars, er cars.
Clubs in the Northeast do a lot of
(16:05):
these things.
But the "the save a member time"
is very important these days
as they're trying to work remotely
and and play golf at the same time.
How much of that is just a hunch
versus like do you have is there
are you seeing numbers that would
support that?
Yeah, because the number one
motivating factor of
(16:26):
people looking for a
club in the Sunbelt is high levels
of service.
And so it's right there.
The golf amenities are barely
in the top five.
Interesting.
You know, I talk about clubs all the
time.
The signature hole is
great, but it doesn't need to be on
the front home page anymore.
It's way more than that.
(16:47):
It's socialization.
The levels of service that you get
for paying $150,000 to be a member.
Right?
And that's so it's interesting,
too, because that would align with
the shifting demographic and how
in many ways what
we've heard in talking to other
people in the past is that the
the you know, it's funny.
(17:08):
We've been calling the younger
generation for like the last ten
years. Right? But the young
families are really
less inclined to look at a golf club
membership as like this big status
point in their life as much as just
a lifestyle thing.
Is that how do you feel about
that? Yeah.
No, I agree with you, Ed.
It's it's business development,
you know, using it for business
(17:28):
purposes.
But unless that club community has a
lot of family oriented activities
and amenities, it's
people my age, 45 aren't
just interested as much.
So, yeah, the
club has to cater, and I give
general managers a lot of credit.
You know, you're dealing with three
different generations of member
and have to appease all three.
(17:50):
That is no easy task.
Right. And yet, like I would imagine
your data supports it.
That's where you got to go.
Right. Right. I mean, it's just.
you've got to build for the future.
Yeah.
Yeah. We talked to
Jeff McFadden last
year, about almost a year ago from
Union League in Philadelphia,
because you've got to have
that thing for, you know, for
each generation.
(18:10):
So they all have a connecting point
back to your club. I mean, there's
no option with that.
Yeah.
Clubs, you know, they survey their
members all day long, but
that's great.
But can you get that survey to their
kids, find out what they're looking
for too in a perfect club?
I think that's that's where the next
layer of the strategic planning
and in
(18:31):
building things that people are
going to want and pricing it
accordingly is going it's going to
be a bit of a challenge.
So how much insight do you have
regards to that, that part of it,
which is pricing it accordingly?
I mean, that's where
it seems it's interesting because
there are so many clubs that through
the pandemic that went from, well,
let's just keep ratcheting up our
(18:51):
initiation fees.
I mean,
I guess I've got two questions for
that. Like does that
and maybe, you know, I don't- if
this isn't something you feel like,
you know, you're able to answer, but
what does that do to, like consumer
behavior or consumer trust
or, you know, things like that?
And
(19:12):
will they come down?
I mean, is that is this just that
game that we're playing right now?
I think it's it's
always tough to go backwards.
Right? And we've warned clubs
for that over the years.
But I think that it will have to
give a little bit.
The reason why I think anyway,
clubs increase their initiation
is obviously to take advantage of
(19:33):
the demand, but with a lesser
attrition rate, you got less capital
coming in. So this is a way to
subsidize that and get more capital
in the door on the few members that
we're turning over. So I totally get
that from a financial aspect.
So if wait lists do go
away and then we're back to the 8 to
10% attrition rate, 30 new members
a year, call it.
And you can come off that initiation
(19:54):
fee a little bit.
At least you have that cash coming
in through the door.
Right.
So I think that's I mean, the key
that the hard part is going to be
is, okay, how are we going to
fund the next chapter of
amenities and depreciation
of the assets and all that?
And that's where it gets tricky for
private clubs.
Yeah, for sure.
What are any other
(20:16):
I want to vamp a little bit on on
another topic, but any other
interesting pieces of data that
you've come across as it relates to
what we're talking about today?
Yeah.
Before Covid, I
was yelling pretty loudly
about the the
trend of people that didn't want to
live in a golf community from a real
estate perspective.
(20:37):
At that time, it was like 55%
of people wanted to live inside the
gates of a club.
And that's not
good because you want your resident,
you want your golf members to be
residents. So that way when you do
have the vote to redo the bunkers
on the course.
You have people that live in there
and they're going to vote yes as
opposed to the non-resident member
that might not necessarily care
(20:58):
about a new resort pool.
So during
Covid, that fell all the way
or I'm sorry, all the way up to like
70% of people want to be in golf
communities. Great trend.
Interesting.
But today where we say it's
it's falling back it's it's going
back to pre-COVID
demand of, maybe
a gated community is not right for
(21:20):
me. I want to live closer to
shopping and dining.
So that's something I'm always
hearing is caution for the GM's
in the boards as they get their arms
wrapped around who's buying
real estate in there.
Are they buying a golf membership?
The term is "capture rate"
Club Benchmarking would say that
your capture rate of new resident
(21:40):
into the community who
buys a full golf membership should
be 40% or higher.
If less than 40%.
That's not good.
Interesting.
Yeah, there's a lot of clubs even in
Southwest Florida that are 17,
18, 19% capture rate.
They're completely reliant on
outside members to
be there at the club.
(22:00):
And that's that's tough.
How do you increase
that number?
Like if you're 17, 18, how do you
get it to 40%?
Is there anything that you've
seen that would sort of be the
silver bullet to that?
Yeah, it's it's a process,
but it's it's having a brokerage
on site and and it doesn't
mean you have to go through the
(22:20):
rigamarole of establishing a
brokerage with a state.
You can rent an office space out to
a Sotheby's or Berkshire Hathaway
or whoever gives you the best deal
and let them not
only take on the listings, hopefully
the members would use them.
You would implore them to, but
validate the people that are coming
in through the gates.
(22:40):
And just like a new development
developer, new construction, let
them show the property
so they can see.
But more importantly, that broker
is at the board table every month
with the golf pro and the chef and
everyone else giving their report.
Okay, this is who we bought here and
this is how many people bought full
golf memberships so they can start
to get control of
(23:02):
of what's going on.
In your experience, do you see
that as being. Because I
would think that if I'm the broker
in that office, I'd say I'm an
independent broker.
I don't work for the club, but
the club has a vested interest
in, you know, in their connection
and willingness to really
push the club.
Right.
Is there a model of that that works
(23:23):
really well to me because we've
seen it both ways out there.
But what's what's the I mean, it
sounds like you're saying get them
involved in the club and...
Yeah, every big brokerage, if they
put out, send out an email to all
their other agencies and said, Hey,
who wants to go sit in X, Y,
Z country club and be the the
onsite broker there,
a thousand hands that go up.
(23:43):
Right? So you
put two people in there or
whatever and they they're at all
the member events, just again like
the golf professional would be
establishing relationships,
speaking intelligently about what's
going on in the marketplace.
And as a membership, you're happy
with that because now you don't have
outside real estate agents coming in
dictating what the pricing is
(24:05):
on these homes to get a good deal
or to sell a house because the
person wants out and it affects
everyone else's market value.
So and there's models out there
that support that, that are,
clubs are thriving and and they're
monetizing it, too.
So going back to you don't have
to set up a brokerage
with the state.
Rent that office out
(24:26):
and just work out a deal with a
brokerage that says okay at the end
of the year the club gets
10% of the net earnings
of the real estate that's been sold.
So now you've got a new revenue
stream coming in or
pay us $100,000
in rent because we made $1
million in sales last year.
So creative ways for
clubs to get involved in not only
(24:46):
control, but monetizing.
Interesting.
Let's just I'd love to get your
thoughts on this and this is more,
for you listening, this might feel
redundant, but let's
just talk about getting that, you
know, creating the, you know, the
pipeline and building that pipeline
and just using this time to
just get a little bit smarter with
(25:08):
your sales operations, which is
really what this is, right?
I mean, in the old days,
you know, I mean, you saw a lot of
clubs that, you know, don't like
to think of it as a sales process
and or that their membership
director isn't selling, and position
how you want. But so much of the
processes that you need
are processes that would
(25:30):
align with a sales organization,
Right? Right.
Yeah. I mean, so yeah, yeah.
Yeah. No, you're 100% right.
We work with the membership
directors every day in
our model.
And I would
say that 75%
of them don't have a CRM system or
don't have drip marketing campaigns
and. It's not that they
(25:52):
don't have access to those things,
but they're doing all these other
duties as well and member
satisfaction and all this and that.
So to have some sort of system
in place where there is
workflows and drip marketing of it,
every time a lead comes in and using
data to your advantage,
you have to do it.
I mean, it takes
7 to 9 touches before we buy
a pair of shoes, let alone a
(26:13):
$100,000 golf membership.
Right.
So, yeah,
I agree with you 100%.
Take this time to get reestablished
from a technology and just
operational perspective.
So can you maybe help me
or help the listener
understand like
why that's important for
(26:34):
today's consumer?
It's I kind of feel silly asking
you this, but you know, in the old
days it used to be like, well,
that's the club that you should
join. And you know, I'm interested
and I'll get in line for that.
But why does it matter?
Why does it matter if you have a
CRM?
Like I've got names that I keep on
(26:54):
my pad of paper?
Yeah, no, I- it's, it's key because
I believe the metric is
club 65% of their
members bring in new members,
but the other 35% come from
off the street or from another
market and they just get connected
to the club via however.
(27:15):
And so how are you going to drip on
those people and send them relative
content to them that they're looking
for?
You know, the world is a much
different place than it was 25 years
ago in terms of travel and being
able to work remotely.
So getting back and
forth from Boston to Naples or
Palm Beach is easier now.
And so that's allowing
(27:36):
people to look at other markets for
a better deal or a better club and
or a lesser home.
So that
with so many options out there
for consumers, especially in these
new developments with Lennar and
Pulte and offering tremendous
incentives to buy in there
(27:57):
you got to have a really strong
campaign and it
goes back to too you want the right
person buying at the club, too.
So let's use the CRM
to our advantage to determine if
this person is even right.
The right fit right based upon the
data they're providing.
Yeah, that's that's almost like the
opening on a door to a completely
new conversation around it.
(28:18):
And I just want to touch on it
really quickly because
we saw in the past probably after
2008 and 9 was
the big one where clubs
were really in trouble and they just
have no initiation fees.
Just if you have a pulse, come on
and you can write a check.
And then the problem was they
weren't loyal members, you
know, So if there was an assessment
of or something did come up there,
(28:38):
okay, I'm out of here.
You know, So as clubs
are rethinking their strategy,
maybe going forward, it's like, what
are those things that you're doing
to ensure that you do have the right
fit? Member as well?
Correct. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's
so, so important because you
just you can't
you can't deal with a 15 to 20%
(28:59):
attrition rate annually and a lot of
clubs do that and that's, that's a
lot that's I mean if it's if
there's 350 members and you got
to replace 60 of them every year,
oof, that's a big marketing effort.
So they get in front
of it by getting the right people in
there that should be there.
Got it.
Yeah.
What else? Anything else you want to
throw in there for?
(29:20):
For our folks that, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that
for the clubs just be the real
eastate's key.
90% of people that are looking
at a golf membership are combining
that search with the home.
So for the membership directors out
there listening, have that data
with you just knowing that they're
sitting across from you and they're
considering a home purchase
(29:41):
as well. So the more data and
metrics that you have, you're only
checking boxes
and to know that investment
is on the back of their mind and
to have that data there specifically
as well.
Okay, this is what the plan is
for the next five years and this is
how we're going to fund it.
Yeah, and it's fine
(30:02):
if the numbers are going to be
assessed. I think from the
consumer's standpoint, from what
I've seen, they're totally fine for
that, if not even happy
about it, because at least there's a
plan of investment in the club.
So they're willing to write the
check. They just don't want to be
surprised about it.
Exactly. Be transparent about.
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah.
Jason, thanks so much for joining me
and sharing this information.
(30:23):
It's it's great to
see you in person and to be here,
but also for your time.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Any time.
And thank you for listening.
If you find this podcast helpful.
Be sure to subscribe on iTunes,
Google Play, Spotify or wherever
you get your podcasts.
(30:44):
Until next time, keep crushing
your club marketing.
You are listening to Crushing Club
Marketing, a podcast for progressive
club leaders ready to increase
their club's revenue.
Time for change begins
right now.
More than half of the private clubs
in the country still have a waitlist
today, and there seems to be no end
in sight.
But is that accurate?
(00:20):
Jason Becker, CEO and founder
of Golf Life Navigators, joins me in
this episode and shares the trends
he's seen for some time now.
His data points to the industry's
return to a pre-pandemic normal
and says it'll be here sooner than
expected.
He believes the evolving real estate
market is an important lead
indicator of attrition rates for
(00:41):
private clubs.
Well, if you choose to believe that
your current waitlist is the quote
unquote new normal and that it'll
always be this good,
you can either bury your head in the
sand and ignore this episode, or
you can take Jason Becker's insights
and start to modify your approach
(01:02):
to new member acquisition and
retention, for that matter.
Well, if you're not familiar with
Golf Life navigators, it is
a online resource that helps people
find golf communities or a golf
community that is right for them.
Jason says it's kind of like a
dating app for people who are
looking for a place to live and play
golf. So you kind of get the
(01:22):
idea. You put in information
that will spit out results
that are best suited for your
interests.
And through that intake
process.
Golf Life Navigator collects a
tremendous amount of information
that provides really, really
valuable insight into industry
trends.
(01:43):
But in this episode, we really dive
into attrition rates.
As I mentioned, Jason's
data is showing
that clubs are soon going to
see even higher
attrition rates than what they
saw before the pandemic.
A lot of people in the industry
are thought leaders in the industry
(02:04):
recognized that
there's going to be a return to
the pre-pandemic numbers.
But Jason's number
is saying that we're going to see
that sooner than expected.
So for forward thinking
club leaders, you're
going to want to listen to this
conversation and maybe even start
to address the gaps that you
(02:26):
may have in your new member
recruitment process
and also how you're engaging your
current members.
So Jason and I connected at the
2025 CMAA World
Conference in Tampa in
February, and we just
pulled up a couple of chairs and sat
down in the StoryTeller booth and
we dove into this conversation.
(02:47):
Jason, thanks so much for joining us
today.
Happy to be here, Ed.
Great. So I think the last time
we talked was right
during the pandemic it was right or
right after in the wait lists,
clubs was really building up.
Right, right. Yeah.
We were seeing a massive, massive
run on golf for sure.
And you and I were talking about the
(03:09):
waitlist growing at clubs and the
consumer
challenges of trying to find a club
that had availability.
Right, for sure.
So for people who aren't
familiar with Golf Life Navigators,
how about, you know, the high level,
what you do and and also just
the connection to the data that
you're able to capture as well?
Yeah. Yeah. So basically, Ed, we
just we noticed that there's a
(03:30):
huge void in the marketplace for
anybody looking for a private club
on the consumer side.
But from the club side, we all
are very sensitive to attrition
rates and unhappy members.
And so in 2015, I was
studying or reading a white paper
actually on divorce rates in the
United States, and the average
divorce rate was 54%.
(03:50):
You know, people are getting
divorces.
However, those that are meeting on
matchmaking algorithms, the average
divorce rate was 7%
and the light bulb went off and
it was like, okay, I wonder if we
could create an environment where
User A would be the club.
They put in everything they have to
offer amenity wise and price
point, and then User B is a consumer
and they put in everything that
they're looking for and then instant
(04:11):
matches can occur.
And so the consumer could then
filter search 158 clubs in
southwest Florida.
And for the club industry,
you're getting the right member for
the club as they're checking all
the boxes of what you have to offer.
So happier members, attrition
rates go down.
And yeah, 55,000
people have used it.
(04:31):
Wow. So that's
that's the story behind the story.
But in, along the way, you've gained
so much information
about behaviors and preferences
that I know a lot of people
would would kill to have that
information.
But so with that as a backdrop,
let's just jump in to what you know,
what the topic is for today, is
really attrition.
(04:54):
And maybe if we
can just, again, a little bit more
context...
In the pandemic, after the pandemic,
this huge boom and
in wait lists and people that are
interested in joining private clubs.
Yes.
Right. So
and all along you were saying people
are not...
I remember several years ago when we
talked about this and people
(05:16):
really don't want to wait in
waitlists, or be on a waitlist.
So how is that changed?
And what does that dynamic look like
today? Because 54%
of clubs is what club benchmarks
are waitlist.
Yeah. Yeah. And the average waitlist
number is 70 people on a list.
Which is huge.
And that varies, you know, market to
market and markets like Naples, it
can be 3 to 4 years before you
(05:37):
get playing privileges,
right? So so yeah, the
waitlist issue from the consumer
stan- side. So we start serving them
right when Covid was at full bore
and there was a run on golf and
70% of them were coming back saying
they did not want to be on a
waitlist more than six months
long.
You know, they're looking to buy
(05:57):
then. They had cash in hand and
ready to go.
So that became,
you know, a pickle for the consumer.
And what we notice was
they were kind of acquiescing
things that they were looking for
specifically in order to just to
find access to a club.
So might not have been the best
practice facility, but this one has
membership available ability.
So we're buying there or
(06:18):
moving to an entirely different
market altogether.
The survey data also told us that
80% of people did not want to put a
deposit down.
And of those that
were willing to put a deposit down
that budget ranged from anywhere
from 10 to $20,000
and that was it. Not any more thanthat.
I was going to say, how how is that
data different for golf communities
(06:40):
versus standalone like private
clubs?
It's the same.
The biggest difference with the
communities is the real estate
factor.
And 90% of people that use
our platform are combining in search
of club and home.
So that's the other layer
of the decision process.
During Covid, there was no golf
homes for sale.
And so even
(07:01):
more a reason for a consumer to look
at a different market all together.
Got it. So how so how would you
how is that landscape different
today?
You know, now 2025.
From the the the consumers
side of things, the demand is still
there. People are still,
you know, on the run looking for
clubs. I think there's more
intelligence out there that
(07:22):
consumers are aware that Naples,
Scottsdale, Palm Beach, you know
the big five, if you will, Palm
Springs are full.
And there's very few options.
So they are looking at other
markets. We're seeing it just in our
watching the leads come through
our system today.
But there's also this understanding
on the club side that waitlists
(07:43):
seem to be diluting quite quicker
than maybe clubs are thinking,
which we've- I've always been a
proponent, I know you are too, keep
the pipeline going like you keep,
keep building of
prospective members.
So being in
the real estate industry as well,
you know we're seeing a massive
increase in listings of all
the homes coming for sale.
(08:05):
And so my prediction, as we talked
about earlier, is that attrition
rates are going to be, if not back
to normal, maybe even higher,
which is 8 to 10% a year.
All right. So I think a lot of
people have thought and believed
that attrition rates would come back
the way they once were.
Yeah. Why more, though?
(08:25):
More? Because, and this is my
theory.
In 2020, the 82
year old they had planned on
resigning that year
didn't because Covid hit.
And why give up their golf home
and their club membership.
So you have all those people in 2020
and 21, even 22
(08:45):
that didn't resign because they
want to keep what they had.
Well, now that we're past it,
they're 85, 86 years old.
They are out.
And that's why you're seeing a
massive increase of golf homes
come for sale.
And
in in obviously, you know,
people on the resignation lists at
clubs. Now that's great
from a club from a capital
(09:06):
standpoint cause you got new members
coming in writing new checks.
But how many times a week
was the 86 year old playing golf?
Right. Once?
Now you know, you got a 55 year old
come in playing 3 or 4 days a week.
So clubs then have to deal with this
capacity capacity issue.
But that we've seen in the last year
as well.
Yeah. How that's interesting.
So you're attributing a lot of
(09:26):
that...
The attrition and
real estate
surplus to
some of that aging demographic.
Are there- what are the other
conditions that might be affecting
that, the surplus in the
marketplace?
Uh, people trying to cash
in. You know, the real estate market
was on fire for the last several
(09:48):
years. People are getting good
return on investments for their
golf homes. And we've passed that.
My wife's a real estate broker.
I see it every day.
The market has pricing has
come down a lot in these golf
communities because they're just
inflated with with more homes for
sale. Yeah. So I think that was a
big reason. And in the Sunbelt
markets, yeah, a lot of people that
we like to call them halfbacks, they
(10:10):
spent 15, 20 years in
Florida and are going to go up to
the Carolinas. So
yeah, a lot of- and I think the
other factor is too,
if you're 80 to 85 years
old, are you necessarily
in the same mental alignment with a
55 year old, what they want out of a
club? Right.
And the answer is probably no.
Yeah, that's the next part of this
(10:30):
that I think we want to get to as
well. But before we do that, I was
just going to ask you, is it
happening sooner than
what you might have expected a
couple of years ago or is it kind of
just doing what
it should do based upon.
You know?
Yeah, no, I think that it's crept up
on a lot of clubs.
We've seen a
(10:51):
massive amount of clubs come back
and engage with our platform just
because the wait lists
shrank pretty fast.
Or if.
If a club didn't have a deposit
to be on a wait lists.
And that consumer's got no reason to
call the club and say that they
bought in, you know, Wilmington,
North Carolina.
And so there's a little shock there
from the membership directors that
(11:11):
thought they had 100 on their list,
but there might only be 15.
Right. And so
not only with the wait- that
diluting, then you have an increase
attrition. It's kind of like the
perfect storm. So I've been on a
soapbox over the past
nine months just kind of warning
club officials that, hey, expect
this. You're seeing it in
the real estate market and that's a
direct attribute to
(11:32):
the golf membership buyers.
Yeah.
So so let's talk a little
bit about, and through the data
that you have and have acquired.
You know, the analogy I've
used in the past is start building
your ark now, you know.
But what are the things that
consumers today are looking for and
(11:54):
how how should clubs
maybe if they have an opportunity to
reevaluate how they're positioned?
What should they think about?
They need to be prepared to
address the financial
conditions of the club.
And, you know, there's always been a
portion of prospects that
would like to meet with the finance
(12:14):
chairman before they make the
decision to buy.
But from we've seen years past,
that's not been a motivating factor.
It's generally been, you know,
okay, is the golf course playable,
healthy?
What's the real estate like in the
community or around it and
what's the lifestyle like?
Now we're seeing people
that are really concerned with
(12:35):
is the club investing into the
amenities?
And if so, how is that looking?
If not, why?
And is- can I
expect an assessment down the road?
You know, all these questions that
most membership directors never got
asked before.
And I think a lot of it is because
people there's so much information
online now and
(12:56):
a lot of folks have friends that
live in golf communities or private
club members.
And probably over dinner, I've heard
them disgruntled about our getting
assessed again, Didn't see that one
coming.
And so they have these questions.
And because it is at the end of day
a financial investment.
Right. The...
This kind of fits in to, I've been
on this track recently, the last few
episodes around governance.
(13:17):
And in what you're saying,
I think it's just it's a more savvy
prospective member.
And let's face it, some of these
people may be members in another
club. Right? And they're going to
new- and they know how this stuff
works and all the traps, too.
So, yeah, much more savvy.
The the one
thing and I don't know how much you
can speak to this, but
(13:39):
how important do you think that is?
Like the governance and how the, the
club is structured?
Are there is the consumer that
savvy to understand like,
wow, this is kind of dysfunctional
how these guys are doing this or
they don't seem to have a plan for
how they're going to avoid future
assessments? I mean, how
how important is that kind of
information, do you think, for.
I it's tremendously important.
(13:59):
I, I every
prospect that I talk to personally
is looking at a community.
I tell them, go meet with the
finance chairman, the finance
chairmen love to talk to you because
they love talking about that kind of
stuff. And it's a great
education experience for you as a
consumer because now you can see how
private clubs operate and run in
the not for profit.
(14:19):
And this is where the dues money go.
But it's it's a great
experience. And to that, there's
going to be no surprises down the
road. You know, I sat with the
finance chairman and three years
later, we're going to vote to do a
capital improvement plan.
But I understand why we're doing
that because I remember that
meeting. So I
think clubs getting out in front of
it is actually probably better and
(14:41):
going back to happy members.
Yeah.
You know, there'll be no surprises
then.
Right, Right.
That's very interesting.
All right. So let's talk about other
things, because other things as far
as, you know, building the
ark or preparing.
In your, from your perspective
and what you see, what are the other
things that clubs can really
do to sort of get the house in order
(15:02):
to maybe, you know, handle?
I kind of think of this like you've
got a second chance now.
You've had a really good wave here.
What are you going to do this time
that's going to be differently to
ensure your success?
I think that the, there
will there's two layers of
it. The first layer is so many clubs
dramatically increase their
initiation fee and even
dues for that matter.
(15:23):
And so there has to be some sort of
alignment with quality and
levels of service that go with that.
So okay, the club
used to be 50,000 to get in and now
it's 150. Ed, what
are you doing different that's going
to warrant me writing another check
or for that large and
in, so that we're happy.
(15:45):
So I think that's first layer.
And then the second layer is just...
Clubs can build amenities all day
long, but I think the future
of the private club is going to be
service offerings, whether it be
day care, detailing
of cars, dry cleaning and a lot of
cars, er cars.
Clubs in the Northeast do a lot of
(16:05):
these things.
But the "the save a member time"
is very important these days
as they're trying to work remotely
and and play golf at the same time.
How much of that is just a hunch
versus like do you have is there
are you seeing numbers that would
support that?
Yeah, because the number one
motivating factor of
(16:26):
people looking for a
club in the Sunbelt is high levels
of service.
And so it's right there.
The golf amenities are barely
in the top five.
Interesting.
You know, I talk about clubs all the
time.
The signature hole is
great, but it doesn't need to be on
the front home page anymore.
It's way more than that.
(16:47):
It's socialization.
The levels of service that you get
for paying $150,000 to be a member.
Right?
And that's so it's interesting,
too, because that would align with
the shifting demographic and how
in many ways what
we've heard in talking to other
people in the past is that the
the you know, it's funny.
(17:08):
We've been calling the younger
generation for like the last ten
years. Right? But the young
families are really
less inclined to look at a golf club
membership as like this big status
point in their life as much as just
a lifestyle thing.
Is that how do you feel about
that? Yeah.
No, I agree with you, Ed.
It's it's business development,
you know, using it for business
(17:28):
purposes.
But unless that club community has a
lot of family oriented activities
and amenities, it's
people my age, 45 aren't
just interested as much.
So, yeah, the
club has to cater, and I give
general managers a lot of credit.
You know, you're dealing with three
different generations of member
and have to appease all three.
(17:50):
That is no easy task.
Right. And yet, like I would imagine
your data supports it.
That's where you got to go.
Right. Right. I mean, it's just.
you've got to build for the future.
Yeah.
Yeah. We talked to
Jeff McFadden last
year, about almost a year ago from
Union League in Philadelphia,
because you've got to have
that thing for, you know, for
each generation.
(18:10):
So they all have a connecting point
back to your club. I mean, there's
no option with that.
Yeah.
Clubs, you know, they survey their
members all day long, but
that's great.
But can you get that survey to their
kids, find out what they're looking
for too in a perfect club?
I think that's that's where the next
layer of the strategic planning
and in
(18:31):
building things that people are
going to want and pricing it
accordingly is going it's going to
be a bit of a challenge.
So how much insight do you have
regards to that, that part of it,
which is pricing it accordingly?
I mean, that's where
it seems it's interesting because
there are so many clubs that through
the pandemic that went from, well,
let's just keep ratcheting up our
(18:51):
initiation fees.
I mean,
I guess I've got two questions for
that. Like does that
and maybe, you know, I don't- if
this isn't something you feel like,
you know, you're able to answer, but
what does that do to, like consumer
behavior or consumer trust
or, you know, things like that?
And
(19:12):
will they come down?
I mean, is that is this just that
game that we're playing right now?
I think it's it's
always tough to go backwards.
Right? And we've warned clubs
for that over the years.
But I think that it will have to
give a little bit.
The reason why I think anyway,
clubs increase their initiation
is obviously to take advantage of
(19:33):
the demand, but with a lesser
attrition rate, you got less capital
coming in. So this is a way to
subsidize that and get more capital
in the door on the few members that
we're turning over. So I totally get
that from a financial aspect.
So if wait lists do go
away and then we're back to the 8 to
10% attrition rate, 30 new members
a year, call it.
And you can come off that initiation
(19:54):
fee a little bit.
At least you have that cash coming
in through the door.
Right.
So I think that's I mean, the key
that the hard part is going to be
is, okay, how are we going to
fund the next chapter of
amenities and depreciation
of the assets and all that?
And that's where it gets tricky for
private clubs.
Yeah, for sure.
What are any other
(20:16):
I want to vamp a little bit on on
another topic, but any other
interesting pieces of data that
you've come across as it relates to
what we're talking about today?
Yeah.
Before Covid, I
was yelling pretty loudly
about the the
trend of people that didn't want to
live in a golf community from a real
estate perspective.
(20:37):
At that time, it was like 55%
of people wanted to live inside the
gates of a club.
And that's not
good because you want your resident,
you want your golf members to be
residents. So that way when you do
have the vote to redo the bunkers
on the course.
You have people that live in there
and they're going to vote yes as
opposed to the non-resident member
that might not necessarily care
(20:58):
about a new resort pool.
So during
Covid, that fell all the way
or I'm sorry, all the way up to like
70% of people want to be in golf
communities. Great trend.
Interesting.
But today where we say it's
it's falling back it's it's going
back to pre-COVID
demand of, maybe
a gated community is not right for
(21:20):
me. I want to live closer to
shopping and dining.
So that's something I'm always
hearing is caution for the GM's
in the boards as they get their arms
wrapped around who's buying
real estate in there.
Are they buying a golf membership?
The term is "capture rate"
Club Benchmarking would say that
your capture rate of new resident
(21:40):
into the community who
buys a full golf membership should
be 40% or higher.
If less than 40%.
That's not good.
Interesting.
Yeah, there's a lot of clubs even in
Southwest Florida that are 17,
18, 19% capture rate.
They're completely reliant on
outside members to
be there at the club.
(22:00):
And that's that's tough.
How do you increase
that number?
Like if you're 17, 18, how do you
get it to 40%?
Is there anything that you've
seen that would sort of be the
silver bullet to that?
Yeah, it's it's a process,
but it's it's having a brokerage
on site and and it doesn't
mean you have to go through the
(22:20):
rigamarole of establishing a
brokerage with a state.
You can rent an office space out to
a Sotheby's or Berkshire Hathaway
or whoever gives you the best deal
and let them not
only take on the listings, hopefully
the members would use them.
You would implore them to, but
validate the people that are coming
in through the gates.
(22:40):
And just like a new development
developer, new construction, let
them show the property
so they can see.
But more importantly, that broker
is at the board table every month
with the golf pro and the chef and
everyone else giving their report.
Okay, this is who we bought here and
this is how many people bought full
golf memberships so they can start
to get control of
(23:02):
of what's going on.
In your experience, do you see
that as being. Because I
would think that if I'm the broker
in that office, I'd say I'm an
independent broker.
I don't work for the club, but
the club has a vested interest
in, you know, in their connection
and willingness to really
push the club.
Right.
Is there a model of that that works
(23:23):
really well to me because we've
seen it both ways out there.
But what's what's the I mean, it
sounds like you're saying get them
involved in the club and...
Yeah, every big brokerage, if they
put out, send out an email to all
their other agencies and said, Hey,
who wants to go sit in X, Y,
Z country club and be the the
onsite broker there,
a thousand hands that go up.
(23:43):
Right? So you
put two people in there or
whatever and they they're at all
the member events, just again like
the golf professional would be
establishing relationships,
speaking intelligently about what's
going on in the marketplace.
And as a membership, you're happy
with that because now you don't have
outside real estate agents coming in
dictating what the pricing is
(24:05):
on these homes to get a good deal
or to sell a house because the
person wants out and it affects
everyone else's market value.
So and there's models out there
that support that, that are,
clubs are thriving and and they're
monetizing it, too.
So going back to you don't have
to set up a brokerage
with the state.
Rent that office out
(24:26):
and just work out a deal with a
brokerage that says okay at the end
of the year the club gets
10% of the net earnings
of the real estate that's been sold.
So now you've got a new revenue
stream coming in or
pay us $100,000
in rent because we made $1
million in sales last year.
So creative ways for
clubs to get involved in not only
(24:46):
control, but monetizing.
Interesting.
Let's just I'd love to get your
thoughts on this and this is more,
for you listening, this might feel
redundant, but let's
just talk about getting that, you
know, creating the, you know, the
pipeline and building that pipeline
and just using this time to
just get a little bit smarter with
(25:08):
your sales operations, which is
really what this is, right?
I mean, in the old days,
you know, I mean, you saw a lot of
clubs that, you know, don't like
to think of it as a sales process
and or that their membership
director isn't selling, and position
how you want. But so much of the
processes that you need
are processes that would
(25:30):
align with a sales organization,
Right? Right.
Yeah. I mean, so yeah, yeah.
Yeah. No, you're 100% right.
We work with the membership
directors every day in
our model.
And I would
say that 75%
of them don't have a CRM system or
don't have drip marketing campaigns
and. It's not that they
(25:52):
don't have access to those things,
but they're doing all these other
duties as well and member
satisfaction and all this and that.
So to have some sort of system
in place where there is
workflows and drip marketing of it,
every time a lead comes in and using
data to your advantage,
you have to do it.
I mean, it takes
7 to 9 touches before we buy
a pair of shoes, let alone a
(26:13):
$100,000 golf membership.
Right.
So, yeah,
I agree with you 100%.
Take this time to get reestablished
from a technology and just
operational perspective.
So can you maybe help me
or help the listener
understand like
why that's important for
(26:34):
today's consumer?
It's I kind of feel silly asking
you this, but you know, in the old
days it used to be like, well,
that's the club that you should
join. And you know, I'm interested
and I'll get in line for that.
But why does it matter?
Why does it matter if you have a
CRM?
Like I've got names that I keep on
(26:54):
my pad of paper?
Yeah, no, I- it's, it's key because
I believe the metric is
club 65% of their
members bring in new members,
but the other 35% come from
off the street or from another
market and they just get connected
to the club via however.
(27:15):
And so how are you going to drip on
those people and send them relative
content to them that they're looking
for?
You know, the world is a much
different place than it was 25 years
ago in terms of travel and being
able to work remotely.
So getting back and
forth from Boston to Naples or
Palm Beach is easier now.
And so that's allowing
(27:36):
people to look at other markets for
a better deal or a better club and
or a lesser home.
So that
with so many options out there
for consumers, especially in these
new developments with Lennar and
Pulte and offering tremendous
incentives to buy in there
(27:57):
you got to have a really strong
campaign and it
goes back to too you want the right
person buying at the club, too.
So let's use the CRM
to our advantage to determine if
this person is even right.
The right fit right based upon the
data they're providing.
Yeah, that's that's almost like the
opening on a door to a completely
new conversation around it.
(28:18):
And I just want to touch on it
really quickly because
we saw in the past probably after
2008 and 9 was
the big one where clubs
were really in trouble and they just
have no initiation fees.
Just if you have a pulse, come on
and you can write a check.
And then the problem was they
weren't loyal members, you
know, So if there was an assessment
of or something did come up there,
(28:38):
okay, I'm out of here.
You know, So as clubs
are rethinking their strategy,
maybe going forward, it's like, what
are those things that you're doing
to ensure that you do have the right
fit? Member as well?
Correct. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's
so, so important because you
just you can't
you can't deal with a 15 to 20%
(28:59):
attrition rate annually and a lot of
clubs do that and that's, that's a
lot that's I mean if it's if
there's 350 members and you got
to replace 60 of them every year,
oof, that's a big marketing effort.
So they get in front
of it by getting the right people in
there that should be there.
Got it.
Yeah.
What else? Anything else you want to
throw in there for?
(29:20):
For our folks that, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that
for the clubs just be the real
eastate's key.
90% of people that are looking
at a golf membership are combining
that search with the home.
So for the membership directors out
there listening, have that data
with you just knowing that they're
sitting across from you and they're
considering a home purchase
(29:41):
as well. So the more data and
metrics that you have, you're only
checking boxes
and to know that investment
is on the back of their mind and
to have that data there specifically
as well.
Okay, this is what the plan is
for the next five years and this is
how we're going to fund it.
Yeah, and it's fine
(30:02):
if the numbers are going to be
assessed. I think from the
consumer's standpoint, from what
I've seen, they're totally fine for
that, if not even happy
about it, because at least there's a
plan of investment in the club.
So they're willing to write the
check. They just don't want to be
surprised about it.
Exactly. Be transparent about.
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah.
Jason, thanks so much for joining me
and sharing this information.
(30:23):
It's it's great to
see you in person and to be here,
but also for your time.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Any time.
And thank you for listening.
If you find this podcast helpful.
Be sure to subscribe on iTunes,
Google Play, Spotify or wherever
you get your podcasts.
(30:44):
Until next time, keep crushing
your club marketing.
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